Everton 0 - 1 Sunderland

Roberto Martinez sprung something of a Boxing Day surprise, resting Ross Barkley to the bench while Leon Osman took his place — a decision that would arguably be the cause of Everton's undoing. No sign of Leighton Baines.

Everton kicked off and dominated possession, with some nice midfield passing, although Jagielka had hearts in mouths with a weak backpass that put Howard under unnecessary pressure. Borini was first to have a pop at goal, lashing it into the Gwladys Street crowd.

Dia Kite fouled Pienaar and Mirallas had a better go on the follow-up, firing in at Mannone. Dia Kite then fouled Osman wide left, Mirallas curling it in wastefully to Mannone at the near post. A good low cross in from Oviedo forced the first corner but Barry could not control his header at the far post.

Sunderland were able to repel most of Everton's attacks as they got into the away side's penalty area, and this gave them more confidence in midfield.

But a massive cock-up by Leon 'clever feet' Osman, slipping on the ball off a lame Howard goalkick, some classic pissing about at the back, allowed Ki to get in very easily and Howard tripped him as he was about to score. Red card for Howard. Everton down to 10 men. Penalty for Sunderland. Osman off to be replaced by Robles in the Everton goal. Penalty hammered home by Ki. Unbelievable.

At least it roused the crowd, who responded to the unexpected adversity with one very loud voice in an effort to inspire the 10 remaining players to climb what suddenly looked to be a rather big Boxing Day mountain.

Everton attacked but continued to be thwarted. Sunderland then pressed and Robles had to save smartly but fumbled the ball and then had to pull off a tremendous one-handed stop to deny the following shot.

Kevin Mirallas went off 5 mins before the break, disappearing down the tunnel... toilet break? He returned to see Barry booked for a late challenge and a dangerous free-kick for Sunderland, fired over by Larsson. That booking will cost him a suspension against Southampton. But Sunderland had the upper hand and pushed hard for a second before the whistle for a welcome break and perhaps a chance to regroup,

Barkley replaced Mirallas, who was ill. Akite somehow missed a chance scooping fractionally over the Park End bar and somehow wrongly winning a corner that was headed goalwards. Barkley did his best to spur Everton on, driving them forward and trying to play in Lukaku, with the crowd raucously vocal in full support, but disappointed to see a corner driven through everyone. Another Everton corner, too easily headed away by Colback.

Everton piled on the pressure, Jagielka powering in a header off an excellent Oviedo corner, Lukaku off-balanced unable to connect with the keeper's parry at close range. Lukaku then had a poke but his drive to the near post was scuffed. Barkley forced to fire from range, well over.

Everton were doing a good job of pressing Sunderland but Fletcher got in a very well struck shot that brought a good confident firm save from Robles. Barkley got in another shot that forced Mannone to parry it away, then drove one low, curling away from the near post. At the other end, a rather dubious block by Pienaar on Borini could well have been another penalty under other circumstances...

It was mostly one-way traffic, but the final link-up wasn't happening for one reason or another, Lukaku again forced to pull the trigger form the edge of the area, straight at Mannoe.More good work by Barkley spoilt by a heavy touch from Lukaku. Mannone then had to parry a fearsome shot from Oviedo.

With 15 minutes left, Martinez played his final card, Jelavic on for Pienaar. Fletcher had a chance to seal it for Sunderland but Robles came out very quickly and forced him to clip it wide of the post.

Into the final 10 mins and Everton kept plugging away against the numerical advantage, Barry with a snapshot that was scrambled away by Mannone. Jelavic won a good free-kick in a good central position, Barkley forcing another superb stretching save by Mannone. Jelavic's superb header off the corner finally beat Mannone only to be headed off the line!

Coleman tried another pile driver but sliced it away from goal as the minutes ticked away. Jelavic tried a bicycle kick that missed completely, and was desperate too score as the game entered 3 mins of added time.

but Jelavic could not turn it in at the far post and it was just not happening for Everton. So, the most predictable of home bankers against the bottom club ends in the most ignominious of defeats as Everton, with everything to play for, contrived to shoot themselves in both feet at a crucial point in the season, stalling in the penultimate home game to go unbeaten at Goodison Park in the Premier League for a full Calendar Year.

Scorers: Ki (pen:25')

Everton (4-2-3-1): Howard R:25'; Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Oviedo; McCarthy, Barry Y:30'; Mirallas (46' Barkley), Osman (26' Robles), Pienaar (76' Jelavic); Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Heitinga, Naismith,Stones, Alcaraz

Sunderland: Mannone, Celustka, Bardsley, Diakite, Roberge, Cattermole, Ki, Colback (70' Giaccherini), Larsson, Borini, Fletcher (87' Altidore).
Subs: Dossena, Cabral, Johnson, Pickford, Ba.

Referee: Lee Probert

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Si Cooper
904 Posted 26/12/2013 at 14:42:52
Ross Barkley is one yellow away from a suspension isn't he, with the slate wiped clean after the weekend fixtures? If you get your fifth booking at the weekend do you get a suspension or not?

Keep him fresh and unleash him for the last 30 minutes (if necessary) whilst limiting the chances he will be unavailable for the Southampton game; possibly a very sensible option. The likes of Cattermole are likely to target him for some rough treatment as well.

Gareth Barry is in a similarly precarious position, but probably experienced and mature enough to not rise to any provocation and to reserve the risky challenges for when they are actually needed.

Stu Cameron
906 Posted 26/12/2013 at 15:45:10
Need barkley on now, need his urgency and skill, nothin happenin up front now cos of arsin around at the back. Think we should go 3 centre halfs at the back and get Barkley behind lukaku
Timothy Sebastian
907 Posted 26/12/2013 at 15:50:03
Can't see where our goals are going to come from. We're too narrow. Coleman and Oviedo being well marked.
Ben Mackenzie
908 Posted 26/12/2013 at 15:49:34
Oh dear, Barry to miss next game and Tim to miss next 3.
COYB we can still do this...
James Martin
911 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:01:28
Season over. Well in Ossie and Howard, two relics of the Moyes era who obviously couldn't handle us being so high in the league. Well in lads, what a way to gift them the game and give up our home record and top 4 spot without them doing anything special at all. The bottom side in the league. Dear me. The media were right after all, we would implode, most predictable choking ever.
Pete Hughes
913 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:06:44
James Martin, "season over"?

Too much turkey, methinks?

James Martin
914 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:09:13
Sorry Ross it's the anger of us chucking away three points to the worst side in the league. For me it's the hangover of how we used to be, choking as soon as we have any opportunity to punish those around us. We're just not winners, and two integral parts of the old choking regime have done for us today. We'll need a great result somewhere else now to get back to the top 4 pace.
Ross Edwards
915 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:18:03
Don't give up hope yet James, Arsenal are losing, so we haven't fallen completely off the pace.
Ben Mackenzie
916 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:19:31
And it's not over yet, we will score soon
Timothy Sebastian
917 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:47:33
Just somehow knew we would choke. ...we don't have enough winners in this team.
Steven Telford
918 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:54:53
It's fucking bullshit the teams we have dropped point to this season, and there is a another pile of shite that we dropped too.

That's all Osman's fault!!!!!!!!! Cant really blame Howard
it should not have even been on the fucking pitch from the start.

That's a serious Christmas downer!

Also, putting voice to something that has been in my thoughts for a while is that Lukaku is perhaps "not all that his first touch was on many occasions woeful.

Ross Edwards
919 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:54:08
Just one of those things. The performance can't be faulted, we threw it at them, the post, the bar, off the line, a bombardment that was permanent in the 2nd half, it just wasn't our day.

Had the sending off not occurred, we would be discussing a win rather than a defeat. Osman shouldn't have played really, but you can't blame Martinez, rotation was needed, but really, what a disaster on Osman's part though.

No Howard, and no Barry for the Southampton game, it's going to be tough but we can pull through.

COYB! IMWT!

Lee Smith
920 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:59:12
Ben @ 908. I'm pretty sure Howard only misses one game
Max Murphy
921 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:58:16
Unfortunately Pantomine was played out at Goodison Park today. The Boxing Day curse fell on Everton, and the players who caused this ridiculous scenario have only themselves to blame. We are all used to Tim Howard´s 1 or 2 clangers a season, and true to the festive spirit, Tim didn't let us down this afternoon.
Games like this define our season, and Osman and Howard have let down their team, their club and their supporters.
We can now relax, and forget Championss League qualification
Steven Telford
922 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:58:35
How fucking annoying is that!!!!!!
Osman seriously let us down today
Pete Hughes
923 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:00:36
Surely today's fuck-up will turn out to be Osman's 'Phil Neville' moment?
Stu Cameron
924 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:59:26
Can't fault the second half performance from the lads, just wasn't our day. Osman is someone who needs to be brought on through the game and never start. Need some re inforcements in January, and I think lukaku could do with a rest. His touch and positioning has been shite for a few weeks now
Barry Rathbone
925 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:58:13
"home banker"

We have had quite a bit of this recently and how upcoming games are piss easy, it's just taunting the gods.

Anyway let the apocalypse begin I'm going out.

Andy Osborne
926 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:00:23
Does anyone think that we can appeal the red card, the replay seemed to show no contact. Disappointed with the result but Ross is right, we chucked everything at them. Just not our day. Bring on Southampton and the transfer window, see what we can do there.
Tommy Coleman
927 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:58:53
One of those infuriating games.

It happens to all sides. Got to bounce back straight away.

Ozzie must have got pissed on Xmas not knowing he was starting.

Jim Potter
928 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:03:57
You have to say that was a great opportunity wasted.

It had to come - but against the bottom team at Goodison? Howard and Osman did not cover themselves in glory with that little episode.

Still, we showed a lot of heart and fight. That's a small consolation.

Trevor Lynes
929 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:01:22
Max, you write some rubbish! We were heroic in defeat and our ten men tried everything and gave their all.

We will just need to go on another run as we are still more consistent than most of those teams around and above us.

Mannone made some world class saves today, otherwise we would have won!!

Mark Taylor
930 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:57:36
That had all the signs of sod's law- the one game we should be nailed on to win, we don't.

Some discouraging aspects; Mirallas ineffectual, as he often is (though reports say he's ill?) and I am beginning to think Mourinho has a better handle on Lukaku than anyone- Diakite had him well under control and right now, Romelu is bringing precious little to the team.

The encouraging aspects were the fact we dominated a game against 11 in the second half and Barkley again looked the part, as did Oviedo.

An utter calamity for their goal with both of them culpable; Osman managed to get blown off the ball even though there was no-one there, while Howard should never have passed to him and having been so dumb as to have done so, should have done made 100% he wasn't sent off, whatever happened.

Anto Byrne
931 Posted 26/12/2013 at 16:55:37
Back to Earth with a massive bump. Probably a good thing as I think we were all getting a bit ahead of ourselves.

Let's look at the positives, we were the far better side, kept playing football, no route one stuff. Robles looked at home so no great loss with Howard.

We need a couple of reinforcements in the window for sure, I would love to see a winger who can cross the ball and pick out his man. Of course it is Everton and well it just had to happen, the bottom team winning, the keeper having a blinder. Ahh fuck it... bring on The Saints and lets have a few fresh faces out there on Sunday.

Ross Edwards
932 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:06:05
The person I truly feel for is our very own Paul Ferry. His first game in years at Goodison and we couldn't do it for him.
Denis Richardson
933 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:03:51
That is a truly shite result against the worst side in the league, at home.

Can't fault the manager as you can't do anything about individual mistakes like that.

Not too fussed about Howard missing the next game, Barry though is a blow.

Roberto needs to pick this team up as the next game is only 3 days away. Very poor result but can make amends with a win on Sunday.

Just can't take anything for granted with Everton!

Steven Telford
934 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:02:39
Its painfully frustrating that if we did not have a habit of dropping points against the shitest teams in the league we would be top of the league now.

KM should not have come off, we should have responded by playing 3 at the back. Distin should have come off and Barry or McCarthy should have dropped a bit deeper to provide cover.

Nobody would watched that would have guessed it was 10 against 11 men - that's how shit they were, and we still did not salvage a point there goes our 100% Goodison record, and to who, a bunch of amateurs managed by a Lee Evans look-a-like (and act-a-like)

Stu Cameron
935 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:06:05
People jumping on howards back, Ye he made a mistake and he's made a few this season but he's learning a new style himself of havin to play it out but he's been immense this season and is one if the reasons we are up there, one of the keepers with most clean sheets
Paul Andrews
936 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:09:57
Trying to take a positive out of today. This will highlight to the Chairman and his Board the lack of numbers in our squad.

Keep on winning and Mr Kenwright would carry on carrying on. New faces are required in January to back the lads up.

James Stewart
937 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:09:51
Sunderland were shite. Their Keeper kept them in it along with the ref let be honest.

Any hope Osman has of the World Cup he killed stone dead today. Absolutely wretched afternoon for him. Martinez has to shoulder the blame partly for me though. Barkley starts in place of Osman as he should have done and we would not have lost today. Hopefully a lesson learned.

Andy Osborne
938 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:08:45
Barkley has to start every game, we are a different team with him in there. Jelevic looked useless, just tried to bicycle kick everything. Lukaku I thought was ok, but is not getting the service. Oviedo and Coleman looked great as usual. I was impressed with Robles too. Just need one or two astute reinforcements in January and I think we will do well.
Ajay Gopal
940 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:08:19
I will never know how we didn't score in the 2nd half. You would have thought that it was us with 11 men and Sunderland with 10 and not the other way around. Proud of the performance. Just one of those days. I really don't know what poor Jela has to do to get the ball in the net - how unlucky was that getting the ball nodded away from the goal line by their forward Borini. Still plenty to play for - this will show what we are made of. COYB!
Jamie Barlow
941 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:08:27
Are there only two games of the season left? People saying our season is over need to get a grip.

I thought we still outplayed Sunderland and a complete fuck up lost us this. Awful from Howard and Osman.

Steven Telford
942 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:11:47
Its want NOT Howard's fault, it was Osman's HORRIFIC touch that was the problem. Ozzie hang your head in shame! that's Sunday league moment for you.
Jamie Barlow
944 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:16:53
It wasn't a clever ball from Howard Steven.
Ross Edwards
945 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:18:42
It's just one of the perils of this new system isn't it Jamie? It was going to happen some time and it did today unfortunately.
David Pearl
946 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:19:11
What's important now is that, without Barry in our next home game, we pick ourselves up quickly and get back to winning ways. Opportunity dropped of course, and that was a disaster waiting to happen. We have had a few close mishaps this season and one was bound to go against us. We really need to bring in a strong centre mid next week. Jela tried his best and you could see how desparate he was to score. COYB
Phil Smith
947 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:10:04
Still seething about that result. Been 100% behind the manager with his dicisions thus far but dropping Barkley was a huge error today. Mirallas is a waste of space at the moment as well. Has to start with 2 up front for the next game. Lukaku has to come deeper and deeper to get the ball and try and create his own chances. Just doesn't get any help up there on his own. Hope the gaffa and Leon hold their hands up for this one because they lost us the 3 pts today. Unbelievable...
Patrick Murphy
948 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:09:21
I hope RM persuades BK to open his piggy bank as we need to add a couple of players to the squad and perhaps we need to ship a couple out. KM has promised so much but delivered very little, Ossie should never have been given an extended contract in the summer as this should have been his last season with us and he is taking up a space for fresh blood. We most definitely need a Striker that belongs to us and it won't or shouldn't be Lukaku.

Perhaps everybody has been getting a little carried away and expecting us to pick up wins every time we take to the pitch, but the game has and never has worked like that. The positive thing about today was the attitude of the ten men giving it a good go, that is a priceless asset and bodes well for the rest of the season.

We are still a little way short of the required quality in the squad to believe that top 4 is a probability, it is still possible of course but it has been made a lot more difficult by today's events.

Tony Marsh
949 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:17:29
Fucking Joke the decision tp drop Ross for Dross.First real mistake Martinez has made since his arrival and its cost us our unbeaten record.

I have banged on for years about the Crapness of Osman and I have been right all along. Todays calamity has been waiting to happen all season. Every time Osman gets the ball my heart is in my mouth. Today must of killed off any notion that Osman is Premier League quality. Play our best team at all times and adjust when needed.Its not as though we are in Europe and the League cup is it?l. We should of still won by the way Sunderland are a shocking side.Hope they go down the Jammy Twats.

Eric Myles
950 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:18:45
Steven, it was a goal kick, Howard could have put it anywhere on the pitch, instead he plays a short ball to a player with an opposing player on his back, Definitely Howard's fault that one.

Ross #919, if Osman shouldn't have played and the manager picked him, how come it's not the manager's fault Osman was on the pitch?

Brian Dagnall
951 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:18:27
Just take it easy. Howard did nothing wrong. What do you want him to do, just let the guy walk around him? And Osman did what Osman does all the time, loses possession cheaply. If you insist on blaming SOMEBODY it has to be the manager who brought him in ...... we all know what Osman's failings are, but Roberto maybe doesn't yet.

We played pretty good in the second half but it's a very tough call for any team with only 10. We don't have a Suares or Silva or Walcott who can turn a gamewith a quick dribble and shot. That's all we needed, we had all the good possession. Take it on the chin, a bad accident happened to us today ..... it's only one game and we can make it up.

James Stewart
952 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:22:58
The season isn't over but I will guarantee this result will be looked back on at the end of the season along with conceding the goal at the death in the derby as what if moments.

People blaming Howard are way off. What could he do? He barely touched their player and the red card was extremely harsh considering there wasn't any contact. A yellow card would have still been harsh but I can see why the ref gave it in the heat of the moment.

Osman on the other hand.... No words. Professional players shouldn't be doing that. Titus Bramble would have been proud with that one

Pete Hughes
953 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:30:32
In my eyes, Howard and Osman were equally to blame!
Mohammed Horoub
954 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:20:16
Well that was surreal... Howard didn't make the best choice but Osman panicked and all he had to do was pass it back to Howard for a hoof downfield. Regardless, the fact that Mannone was MotM shows we can't fault the effort. The only reason I can see for Martinez benching Barkley is because him and Barry both had 4 yellow cards but still after the goal on Sunday he earned the start today.
We need to shake this off and gear up for Southampton. Didn't think Jelavic was that bad and maybe we can try 4-4-2 on Sunday.
Today was purely down to the pressure of being 2pts from the top.
Sunday will be better. Hopefully Baines is back in the team.
Andy Osborne
955 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:28:26
James, no contact means no penalty. I thought it was a bit harsh but Howard, Osman and Martinez should take the blame. Problem is he doesn't have the strength in depth, but he has to start Barkley every game. Just watching city vs RS now, city have half their first choice out for one reason or another, and they still have a fantastic team on the pitch, that's what money does, I suppose.
Pete Hughes
957 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:32:44
Osman and Howard were equally to blame!
Drew Shortis
958 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:28:46
I'm not complaining about the sending off as it is the rule and it is the same for all teams. However I always think the rule is too harsh on keepers who have no choice but to make some attempt to stop the attacker. Its different to the last defender chopping down an attacker who has got goal side of him. I think the rule should be a yellow card for keepers in these situations. It seems too harsh to send off the keeper on top of the penalty. A real double whamy! That said I would change quite a few rules if I was in charge.

It's a shame to lose out 100% home record and two of our best players for the next game, but there are always going to be days like this. I'm sure Martinez will rally the troops and we will see an improved performance against Southampton.

John Keating
959 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:28:54
Howard needs f...ing !
What possessed him to make that pass to Osman or anyone else !!
F...ing idiot !!!!
Bill Gall
960 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:26:36
Shame to see the way some players who have been instrumental in getting Everton in a great league position getting the harsh criticism on here.

The only thing to show up in this game is Evertons need for a young creative midfielder that has been needed from the start of the season.

As it was going to be difficult to go the rest of the season without loosing, as supporters we need to get behind the team in the next game.As for January the importance of bringing in players is now evident with the suspentions from today.

Sam Hoare
961 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:34:53
Quite clear this is all Paul Ferry's fault!!

In all seriousness it was a bad and slightly unfortunate dat at the office. Even with ten men we could well have won.

We move on.

Mick Davies
962 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:24:39
Although I'm no fan of Osman, I would have thought the new style of football this season would have suited him more than most in the squad. What I didnt expect was the shambolic episode that Osman created. He runs back, asks Howard for the ball, and though Tim is partly culpable for not realising how clumsy Osman is near his own box, there was no problem, until he turned to the left, swivelling so acutely that he lost his footing leaving the attacker on course for the goal. If Howard had just let him through we would have still won I believe, but it was just one of those days, with a typical Everton hating ego tripper with a whistle. I think it's Clattenberk next? So without Howard and Barry, we are considerably weaker but I trust us to bounce back
James Morgan
963 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:42:17
All I can say is "typical Everton!"
Dennis Ng
964 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:40:28
Def a bad day at office. Now my entire workday is ruined! Anyway, I thought the red card is too harsh because it was dive-ish. Can't complain about the penalty. Even with 11 men, we looked like we're heading for a draw despite an impressive day controlling the football.
Len Gowing
965 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:39:51
What is the ban for Howard?
Bill Gall
966 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:40:45
As the loan players are here for the rest of the season there is no need to try and replace them in January.The January window is allways difficult to get players so, if we do manage to bring in any players it should be to improve us for the rest of the season, then the club can see what positions we can improve in the summer.

This season is to keep playing to a standard so we qualify for Europe.

Andy Osborne
967 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:44:37
Just hoping city can cheer me up by stuffing RS.
John Daley
968 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:47:31
"Season over"

"It's fucking bullshit the teams we have dropped point to this season"

"We can now relax, and forget Championss League qualification"

What a load of over the top, raging retarded rhino bollocks. A defeat was bound to happen sooner rather than later. One loss and the white flag wavers are clambering on top of each other to go cower in the corner.

The team has just been on the longest unbeaten run in the premier league this season and there is absolutely no reason why they can not go on and do exactly the same thing once again. It's not as if it was a disastrous display today. That game was lost solely due to an individual cock up of calamitous proportions by Osman showing similar sure-footedness to the shit-brained Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz.

Those things happen during a season. Defeats happen. The top teams don't respond by bawling their eyes out like the baggy arsed, kiddie fiddler looking 'cowardly lion' after he was bitch slapped by a little girl in a gingham dress and glittery hooker shoes. They don't dwell on it or get disheartened by it. They simply dust themselves down and set about starting another unbeaten run in the next game.

Shit happens.Teams around us will drop points between now and the end of the season. No need to get a titty lip on about it and mince about like a tantrum throwing Elton John after David Furnish mistook his favourite anal douche for a fucking turkey baster. Season over? Way to blow things out of all proportion because of one slight setback.

Phil Walling
969 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:43:54
Left the ground feeling our bubble has burst. There was much wrong with Everton today - our limitations were sadly exposed - and pissing about cost us just as we predicted it would do one day.

I need Doddy to cheer me up - he'd have an explanation for this mess!

David Pearl
970 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:49:36
straight red is 3 match ban Len
David Pearl
971 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:51:41
I thought we played really well in the second half. tough game coming up on Saturday so we need to get back to winning ways. Fuck, the shite have just scored.
Ross Edwards
972 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:51:55
Totally agree John, this reaction has been completely over the top. The performance was excellent, we created multiple chances, we were unlucky. We would be celebrating now if Howard hadn't been sent off.

RS winning 1-0.

Stu Cameron
973 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:49:36
Well Said John Daley
Gerry Western
974 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:28:29
Our last defeat was against City and that was largely due to our midfield being overrun, Mc Carthy played his heart out that day but unfortunately was let down by Osman. Onother defeat and Osman plays a pivotal part. We desperately need a quality central midfielder as Martinez cannot be expected to have to continue to place his trust in Osman, he's simply not good enough. This needs to be addressed in January or we risk undoing all of the good work achieved to date.
Andy Osborne
975 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:58:48
1-1 that cheered me up a bit.
Dennis Ng
976 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:59:08
Agreed John. BK should open that checkbook now.
Eric Myles
977 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:58:34
David #970, 1 match ban for

Denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by an offence punishable by a free kick or penalty kick

3 match ban fis for

Serious foul play
Violent conduct
Spitting at an opponent

Which I don't think would apply in this case?

Patrick Murphy
978 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:01:30
Eric won't Howard, even if the FA decided to rescind his Red to a Yellow still miss the next game due to his collecting 4 yellows prior to today.
Jim Hillier
979 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:59:15
1-1 Kompany. Now go on and score another 6
Christopher Kelly
980 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:55:03
To me a lot of it has to do with the lack of second tier performers. The Mirallas' (should be too tier) the peanuts and osman's (obviously, I've banged on about this loser for 5 years) are not doing enough! Pienaar as well. Some nice
Moments but overall getting on and providing too little. McCarthy helping very little going forwards as well for that matter.

It's January or bust really.

David Pearl
981 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:01:34
Yes Eric, thanks for reminding me. Howard has hardly put a foot wrong this season. Hopefully we get back to winning ways.
Will Leaf
982 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:05:22
When is Skrtel going to be penalized for his incessant shirt tuggling/grappling? The only reason Kompany scored there is because Skrtel lost hold of his shirt!
Mike Hughes
983 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:42:01
Mohammed #554 "Today was purely down to the pressure of being 2pts from the top."

Sorry but I think that's rubbish. We were playing the bottom side and were unbeaten at home all year. There is no expectation on us from the media who all think we don't deserve to be where we are. Surely a recipe for confidence not pressure?

If I was a cynic I'd be saying that complacency was the issue. At home to the bottom side and we didn't even start the game well. Mirallas goes off for a long time. They speculated on Radio Merseyside that this might be due to an upset stomach. Errr....really? Too many sprouts? How many times does that happen to a professional?

Thankfully I'm not that much of a cynic.
I think it was due to a one-off cock-up - a perfect storm given that it was the keeper implicated and then sent off so early in the game.
Mind you, I posted pre-match that the team should be unchanged. (Well, we're all armchair managers, aren't we?)
Was surprised Barkley didn't start as I think Ossie's OK for the last 20 mins when we're 1-0 up.

(I remember the all-conquering 1984 side losing at home to lowly Grimsby in the League Cup. And let's not mention Carlisle United's top flight record against us!)

I like RM's positive response on post match interview.
Hopefully we'll see a belting response against Southampton.

Bottom line - not the Happy Blue Christmas we were hoping for.
Citeh can potentially bring a bit of joy, though (at least at the time of writing).

James Stewart
984 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:01:30
Osman if involved at all should be from the bench only. His days of starting games are long gone and its bloody obvious to anyone who watches us regularly.

We could really do with a couple of players in January to give us options. Jelavic was the only available sub to bring on to try and get a goal and that is not good enough for a side trying to be top 4

Chris Butler
985 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:48:13
Martinez was to blame for that defeat Barkley should have started instead of Osman and Jelavic instead of Lukaku. Jelavic hasn't done for the last 2 seasons admittedly but at least he makes an effort un like Lukaku. Jelavic should of been brought on at half time along with Barkley. I think this result ends our chances of finishing in the top 4 or better. Liverpool, United, Arsenal, City and a lesser extent Chelsea don't lose these games. We were unlucky to not get a point and yes the referee was poor but we still should be winning these games, typical Everton really.
Robin Cannon
986 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:04:32
@John (968) - Damn right. The reaction here has been pitiful.

Unfortunate confluence of events today and a really disappointing loss. In one game. We played over an hour with ten men, still spent most of the second half battering them, their 'keeper was MoM, and an individual mistake cost us our goal.

I'm glad that Martinez says that he accepts that mistakes will happen with our new style of play, because there's precious few on here that seem to share that opinion.

Ross Edwards
987 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:09:24
No he isn't Chris.
Eric Myles
988 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:04:53
Patrick, if we appeal the red card and there's no time between now and the next game to hear the appeal (which there won't be) then he can play, he'd just miss the following game if it was upheld..

Anyway, it gives us a chance to see what Robles can do, he did well against City in the FA Cup.

Will Leaf
989 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:09:00
Cheers for the Carlisle reminder...right up there with the Oxford Utd debacle
Eric Myles
990 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:10:35
P.S. do they downgrade reds to yellows? I thought they just cancel the card altogether.
Dennis Ng
991 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:10:22
Barkley's shots were mostly off today in terms of power and placement, but did manage a few good ones. Mannone had a great game. Even with 10 men, we had like what, 80% possession or the like, I felt we had the ball forever. We need 1 more striker for sure but this is rarely time for panic. We should not be overthinking ourselves and try to undo our season by wreaking our morale. A great effort on an unfortunate day.
Dennis Ng
992 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:13:44
I remember 1-2 cases of downgrade but I can't be sure. I like Robles performance today. Not bad for someone who has almost no playing time.
David Pearl
993 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:12:44
Get in... f'kin red shite.
Mike Oates
994 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:10:41
2-1 City !!!
Mike Hughes
995 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:15:02
YEEEEEES......come on City. Stuff these filthy red scumbags.
(My Christmas has been reduced to this?)

Dennis Ng
997 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:17:46
Mike (995), its not a good day. barcodes cutting our gap to 1 point cos they got the other team 3 red cards (including mark hughes). Seriously? That's how they win games? Penalties and man advantage?
Eric Myles
998 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:19:18
Chris # 985 "but at least he makes an effort un like Lukaku"

I've been thinking along the same lines lately.

Len Gowing
999 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:17:28
I don't understand how their keeper was able to consistently take up to 30 seconds per goal kick without any admonishment from Probert, yet there was only 3 minutes injury time. I've noticed most lower teams doing this from the off this season.
Mike Hughes
000 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:20:27
Dennis - really? I didn't catch the other scores and sure as hell won't be watching MoTD.
Unless of course Citeh stick 6 past the RS and Suarez is decapitated.
What are the odds we won't be last on tonight?
Dennis Ng
001 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:22:35
Len, I agree. I find that a bit suspect from the refereeing, though the loss is through our own fault. And horrible luck. And the opponent GK having a career day.
Mike Allison
002 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:17:44
One stumble from one player, and some absolute desperate and occasionally lucky defending from Sunderland.

I'm gutted as I thought we had a sneaky chance of going top of the table at some point in the next week or two.

But to start casting aspersions and looking to blame people here there and everywhere, and to turn against any of the guys who've been outstanding this season and put us in this fantastic position is to show yourself up as a pretty weak 'supporter'. The truest of blues will take this bad at the office on the chin and focus on willing a strong reaction from the players. We've got another home game and opportunity for three points coming up quickly. A football season isn't about not losing, it isn't about not having bad days, its about reacting positively to them and driving forward. That's what we need to do now, and a moaning, bitching attitude isn't part of how that happens.

One final gripe about the laws of the game. If you concede a penalty you haven't denied a clear goalscoring opportunity, merely delayed it, as they still have one from the penalty spot, therefore you shouldn't be sent off.

Iain Johnston
003 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:06:11
Taking Osman off immediately tells us what RM thought..

We threw everything at them 2nd half, just wasn't to be..

Heads up guys we're not out of this yet.. I do feel we need decent cover though. Peanuts needs a rest, I was hoping to see Baines and Oviedo down the left today and Lukaku looks a yard short now.. A few lazy passes all round due to fatigue maybe.

I suspect Martinez knows this and is ready.

After the goal they parked the bus which was to be expected, as we would have done in their circumstances. Southampton will be more open, they'll have a go which will give us some space..

I think our response was encouraging. Previously they would have had all the possession with us having six defenders on and 10 behind the ball.

Ogundipe Olalekan
004 Posted 26/12/2013 at 17:51:51
What a loss to an undeserving team! I never believed we could lose. Some players need a rest: Lukaku specifically... We need reinforcements in January.
Mike Allison
006 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:25:41
Just read John Daley (968).

What he said.

Dennis Ng
007 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:24:44
Mike Allison, agreed. I think if Howard had not bite, Ki would have been carded for diving. It was clear he was going to the ground really. It would be a great lesson for our boys. Stay on the field and get the goals back if necessary. Having to spend a substitute really reduced RM's options.
David Hallwood
008 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:20:30
Some OTT comments; firstly there's always weird results over Christmas, secondly-bad day at the office, simple as. Thirdly Martinez was right to rest Barkley, especially as the next yellow he'll be suspended and a someone pointed out, the amnesty is around the corner. Plus with 3 games in a week a degree of rotation is needed.

IMHO, it's the response to the defeat that will define our season, and there's a lots of points to play for. As they say these days, hey ho onwards and upwards. Oh and to Paul Ferry, piss off and don't come back!

Steven Telford
009 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:25:46
John Daley #968

in your list of OTT quotes You lumped my "It's fucking bullshit the teams we have dropped point to this season"
With the likes of "season over" sort of quotes, that's a bit harsh - because unlike the others, mine is pretty accurate. And I stand by it. If you don't go to review the season results and see that the only team we deserved to lose to this season so far is city

Karl Parsons
011 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:24:27
What a load of beauts some of you lot are. 1. Shit happens in football. It tends to bite back every now and then. 2. If we win on Sunday we'll be back on track and fucking number 3. This is ToffeeWeb not a fucking red shite bulletin board. Who gives a fuck what they are up too? Rant over.
Steve Barr
012 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:23:14
Let's be honest, this defeat has been coming in more ways than one.

The couple of wins (Fulham and Swansea in particular) were flattering and papered over some poor play. And, if you know your history you know for sure that Everton is going to come unstuck against teams in the middle of their worst ever runs! Has happened with stomach churning regularity ever since I can remember!

Martinez should pull together a highlights tape of all such games and play it to the team before this type of game as a reminder. You can't take any team for granted.

Let's hope this is the rocket they need and is just a blip.

A win against Soton and we're back in the frame.

COYBs

James Byrne
013 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:27:18
Huge schoolboy error my Martinez for dropping Barkley to the bench.

I'm totally behind the manager and what he's trying to do but he's become a little stars truck by the Barkley phenomena.

Get your best team out there and get the game won and dusted; what are we gaining by starting with Osman or Mirallas who are both shite, and leaving Barkley on the bench.

Eric Myles
014 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:34:58
Dennis #007, I think Howard could have helped his cause a bit by going for the ball with his hands rather than his feet and maybe gotten away with it. Swinging feet look more of a foul when you don't contact the ball.
Jackie Barry
015 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:44:56
Defeat has been coming? Whatever, some people need a check on reality, it was errors that lead to this and we certainly did not deserve to lose. RM still better than Moyes
David Pearl
016 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:42:58
I think its bollox to blame Martinez for a players individual error. Mirallas has been poor but with Deulofeo we have no choice but to play him. Here's looking at you Bill...
Colin Glassar
017 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:43:12
Totally agree with Steve Barr, you don't change a winning team. Saying that, this might not be a bad thing (of course I wanted to win) but this will bring everyone back down to earth and the hype about us will now disappear.

Plus, Bainsey will be back against Southampton and hopefully we will be back to winning ways. We need at least two new players in January as injuries, suspensions and loss of form will start to kick in now. IRIT.

Dave Lynch
018 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:29:04
We are fucking cursed.
Patrick Murphy
019 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:46:24
Perhaps Tim has been guilty of over-thinking again - his being on 4 yellows prior to the game may have dissuaded him from taking his time with the goal-kick and hence the complete cock-up. But I would really like to know how our keeper had 4 yellows to his name when many of the keepers throughout the Premier League do exactly what Tim has done in past but rarely get booked for it - just another Refereeing quirk that only applies to Everton and few others.
Jim Bennings
020 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:39:19
Well that is the most dissappointed I have felt after a home defeat for a long long time, partly due to our standards having been so high under Martinez. I have to say I thought he made his first mistake of the season today though by resting Barkley in place of Osman.
Now I know Ross is one game away from a ban but you let each game to care of itself, for me everyone associated with Everton today thought they had to just turn up to win, we showed no respect whatsoever to Sunderland and in the end it was our own self inflicted stupidity that cost us our proud run and put a major dent in our top 4 credentials.
We must freshen this squad up in January, we need to be every bit as shrewd and successful as we were in the summer and not rest on our laurels.
We have seen players such as Lukaku and Mirallas become complacent and they are in a comfort zone because they know their places are not exactly up for threat. Mirallas in particular baffles me. How has he become so shite this season? He just does not get involved in games, maybe we saw the early signs at Anfield towards the arse end of last season but whatever it is he needs to have a major smack up the arse.
Lukaku needs the same. His form, his touch and overall contribution over the last few games has perhaps told us why he is not starting games for Chelsea. We muct sign at least one TOP class striker to put pressure on him because I get the feeling with him knowing almost for certain that he will be not be at Everton after this season we are going to see alot more half interested displays from him especially towards the tail end of the season, probably not wanting to get injured for the World Cup. If Jelavic knew where the fucking goal was maybe he could start games. Oh well what a shite day, lets just hope we get THREE points and nothing less on Sunday. Maybe today was the thing we needed, it just reminds us all that we can never let our foot off the gas against any club in this league.
Mick Davies
021 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:49:57
Re Osmans slip; why do we have to soak our pitch so heavily?
Michael Upton
022 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:46:52
A few thoughts:
1 Today is a shitty result against a poor side but the response to going a goal down etc wasnt bad esp with 10.
2 Ossie deserves slaughtering for his error but those saying he should never start have clearly forgotten his excellent goal v Fulham and his assist for Mirallas goal.
3 WTF is Howard doing?
4 Talk of choking and season being over is obviously bollocks. Today was a freak result caused by a freak incident.
5 34 points by Boxing Day is excellent and we're still in the hunt for Europe. Roberto is right to downplay chances of the top as top 4 squads are simply better but hopefully players learned a lesson about concentration.
Mike Dolan
023 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:37:48
Sunderland were very lucky to win that one. Horrendous clearance from Howard, to put Osman into a bad situation that he totally and completely made worse. I thought nine times out of ten we win this game. Lukaku seems to be lost at the moment and probably needs a rest. We are missing Del Boy his pace adds an extra dimension. Its a bummer that we dropped the points but overall I thought we played great.
Dennis Ng
024 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:50:36
Eric, indeed, but the ref have been tricked a few times with his view blocked. This is one of those instance I prefer refs to check replays. Play has been stopped anyway. I hope RM will round up the players and remind them to stay on the pitch and try not to get carded. I am very happy with our second half performance. We deserve a lot more for sure and this is just a bad day for us.

David, I think people are more like "we're going to lose a game or two anyway" and voiced it far too negatively. It's a good season regardless and looking forward to our next game.

Eric Myles
025 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:53:40
David #016 "I think its bollox to blame Martinez for a players individual error"

It was always the way in previous seasons that the manager would be blamed for the players performances and especially for them just being on the pitch e.g. Osman.

Why should it be any different now?

Dennis Ng
026 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:56:14
Mike Dolan (023), if I remember correctly, it was not even a clearance. Bad decision for sure on both players but mistakes happen.

Michael (022), yea, as much as I hope we can win the title, taking the 1 game at a time mentality is best suited for us. Hopefully we can get back to our flowing football against Soton and march from there on.

Dennis Ng
027 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:59:42
Eric, no doubt that is the trend everywhere, though I think it is def harsh to blame the manager for a few errors in only the second loss of our season.
Mike Oxlong
028 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:54:11
Let's have a dose of reality instead of the knee-jerk reactions:

Sunderland at home is the perfect game to let Ross recharge the batteries, the worst side in the division by some distance should be easily dispatched by that starting eleven.

Howard was not to blame for their goal, Osman failed to control a straightforward pass and because he's about as strong as cheap bog-roll was easily dispossessed.

Lukaku is one lazy lazy lumbering centre-forward when the play isn't suited tis strengths. I am slowly beginning to see why Chelsea are loaning him out. Great goalscorer when the team are providing him ammunition, useless at making things happen himself or taking a game by the scruff of the neck ala Drogba.

Anyone attaching any blame at Martinez's feet is an idiot. We were just plain unlucky today. Love his positivity at the end of the game too - no dwelling, lets move on.

Sunderland are crap. Hope they go down.

John Daley
029 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:00:05
Steven (009),

You kind of peg the reason why I included your quote in amongst the other over the top reactions, right here:

"go to review the season results and see that the only team we deserved to lose to this season so far is city"

Exactly...and up until today they were ...erm...the only team we HAD lost to. Now it's them and Sunderland.

Earlier you claimed that "it's fucking bullshit the teams we've dropped points to this season". Fact of the matter is we've only lost twice. All season. So what dropped points are you talking about? Draws against Norwich and the like in the first three games of the season when the players were finding their feet in a new system? The draw against the red shite? How do those draws (not defeats!) add up to 'fucking bullshit'?

No game in this league is a banker complete with a guarantee of 3 points. Going into games against teams lower in the table with the attitude that it'll be as easy as stealing fish from the Seal Boy with flippers for hands is asking for a fucking slap about the face with the same said fish.

Jim Bennings
030 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:58:44
Also forgot to say that today was the first time I think we really missed having Del on the bench (personally I would have him starting).

We just didn't really have anything late in the second half to truly change that game, everything was just crossed into the box, its exactly why we knew that Deulofeu would be missed so much, we don't get anywhere near enough quality from our two wide players in my opinion. The stars of the season have been central midfielders such as Barry, Barkley, McCarthy, Pienaar shit more often that not, Mirallas shit most of the time. We need at least a striker and wide player next month. McGeady/Donovan and maybe one of Shane Long or Defoe on loan.

Tony Cheek
031 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:49:50
How fickle some of you are. Lose a game and suddenly we are out of it....WTF! Give me strength. Osman let us down big time with a terrible decision to try and turn an opponent as last man....unforgivable! Lets get over it! He shouldn't have played anyway.

But for christs sake keep faith....we can and will be there at the end!

Mark Boulle
032 Posted 26/12/2013 at 18:57:23
Of course, despite his calamitous error today, Osman starts on Sunday (presumably) as Barry will be banned. Osman was the choice the other week when McCarthy was suspended, so we have to assume RM will go with him again, especially as he'll be nice and fresh after today!

So the fans who are there on Sunday will really need to let this one go and get behind Ossie and the team for what is now a must-win game to keep pace with the other title / European contenders (there, I said the 't' word intentionally).

Saints at home will not be easy due to their manic pressing game, which we struggled with when Spurs employed similar tactics. Today was, I truly believe, one of those occasional freak results - move swiftly on and forget about it.

Gerry Quinn
033 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:03:41
Do you think that Paul Ferry will write an article on this match called "From my Seat - NEVER AGAIN" ?
Jim Bennings
034 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:05:06
Mike Oxlong....Why does Barkley who has recently turned 20 and loves playing football and has just scored a worldy on Sunday to win a hard away game at Swansea need his batteries recharging?? I am not an athlete by any means but I remember feeling at the very peak of my fitness and health at 20 so I imagine Barkley is super fit young man.

I hate all this talk of needing a rest. I am up at 6 a.m every morning for work and do a hell of a lot more than footballers and I am paid much much much less but do I get a rest??
By the way nobody should have a go at Martinez, a mistake today in dropping Ross but other than that he has been great, I love the guy but now I suspect is his first major test after losing our impregnable home record to a dour pile of crap in Sunderland. It will be interesting to see how we react on Sunday against a very tricky opponent with the loss of Barry and the already missing Deulofeu.

Colin Glassar
035 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:09:58
Southampton will come for a point so we need to reorganise and prepare for this one.
Eric Myles
036 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:12:10
Mike #023, it wasn;t a clearance, it was a goal kicK!

Dennis #027, surely we can blame this manager for making the same mistakes that the previous manager was blamed for?

Mike Oxlong
037 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:14:16
Jim 034.

Age and fitness is not the issue - its about development, mental and learning the game as much as physical.

Risk of injury of a developing player against a team we should beat without him, the totting up of suspension points, keeping other players match fit....there are a multitude of reasons why it is sensible to rest him against Sunderland.

Premiership football is not about pure fitness - without going into specifics there are other physiological aspects that a lad of his age (and history) will need to consider whereas Lukaku at the same age may be void of those ailments.

Fact remains - resting Ross for Osman should not have impacted this game. it did but only because Osman forgot he was a footballer for a split second.

Eric Myles
038 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:19:27
Mike #028, it wasn't a straightforward pass though.

It was a goalkick that Howard started towards looking like he was going to hoof it upfield but backed out and sidefooted it to a player who had a man on his back.

And why was Osman even in the CB position to recieve the ball in the first place? where were Jags and Distin to recieve the ball?

Dennis Ng
039 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:23:12
Eric, I'm more of the thought that managers don't really carry over mistakes from each other. The most significant change from manager to manager was at Stoke where Hughes sought online feedback and played a more attractive style of football. Personality and performance issues are really on a case by case basis.

I still think our team is a bit unfamiliar with RM's methods, and to be fair, they still performed very well. e.g. there were a few plays they should have gone through the middle, especially when Sunderland started move outward to cut off RB's shooting lanes. The D line was actually moving outwards while we're holding the ball around the midfield. All in all, the usual "we lack finishers" problem came in but it could easily be the other way if Mannone is not at the top of his form.

Osman is really second fiddle to McCarthy and Barry, so unless we get another backup, possibly in converting other players or transfer, we're short staffed there. I actually think we can push a few defenders up into that spot, such as Baines.

Rick Tarleton
040 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:26:32
The reason why Tim Howard, nice bloke I'm sure, ranks way below the top Everton goalies of my lifetime is shown today. A great shop stopper, yes, but under pressure, crosses, a man on the line, even one-on-one and the red mist (Tourettes?) kicks in and he makes a decision that denies reason.

Osman as often happens makes a very bad decision and executes it even worse, but go down one-nil to Sunderland early on, it's bad but not a disaster. Going one-nil down and having your goal-keeper sent off is. As a decision-maker, Howard (and Osman) lack that capacity that shows the football brain.

Trevor Lynes
041 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:25:07
Barkley if booked today would have been suspended so it made sense to rest him. If we had won and Howard had not been sent off but Barkley got booked the fans would have been saying why did he play??

Osman is an integral cog in our squad and is the obvious player who should be used to rotate the midfielders when the manager deems fit. Martinez has this team playing for each other and although we do not have any big stars we are doing just fine. Liverpool are just two points ahead of us now so what is the problem?

If Roberto gets a couple of decent signings during January, I can still see a successful end to this season.

Steve Durham
043 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:32:04
If you're apologising for Osman not being able to control a pass like that then there's nothing anyone can say. Sunday league players could've dealt with that.

The player was five yards off him, at the very least all he had to do was knock it back to Howard and shield the ball but he managed to somehow trip over the thing and offered about as much of a human shield as a strip of cling film.

He must have been expecting a pass as he was in a position he would not normally have taken up so there's no argument for the surprise element either.

I'm a fan of what Osman has done for Everton but that was simply horrendous...but the general point I'm making is not how shit Osman is but rather it was an error rather than Martinez or a dire performance that cost us that game.

James Stewart
044 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:36:37
Makes 3 points vital against Southampton now who are a very tricky opponent. They are quite capable of turning us over if we are not in top form. No Barry or Gibson will be a much bigger blow than losing Howard. Barkley will start though so there is a silver lining
Eric Myles
046 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:32:15
Jim #034, coming from an era when there were no subs, if you weren't in the first team you played in the reserves, international games were played midweek, you only had a rest when your leg was broken and nutrition was of a pie and 4 pints for lunch I agree, I don't see why any professional athlete these days needs a rest after 90 minutes of footy.

If they're that knackered give them a day off mid week so they're fresh for work on Saturday, don't give them the day off on the day you need them!

Jamie Barlow
047 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:27:42
"Dennis #027, surely we can blame this manager for making the same mistakes that the previous manager was blamed for?"

Absolutely Eric. Although we shouldn't.

If we are going to go along with Martinez here and agree that it's a squad game and players need to be rotated, Osman has to play sometimes. Martinez obviously thought Ross could do with a break (physically or mentally) so Osman came in. If players never got tired or suspended, I think most of us would pick the same 11 players every week and Osman wouldn't be one of them.

Rick Tarleton
048 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:40:33
Howard does not process decisions; instinctively, he's excellent, but put simply he flaps in situations where thinking would help.
Patrick Murphy
049 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:41:40
We can't change what happened today but we all know we've had a better than expected season so far. Some players still have that old habit of having the wrong attitude from the start of the match though and that should be addressed by the manager.

RM is the boss he picks a team that he believes can win any particular game - today he got it wrong - on most other occasions he has got it right.

What we will see in the next couple of months is whether we have improved enough overall to still be in the shake-up at the sharp end of the season - I think in many areas we have - but given you're only as strong as your weakest link we remain tantalisingly close but not yet close enough.

All of our challengers will have days like today so it'll be swings and roundabouts from here on in.

Steve Durham
050 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:43:49
Kenneth Williams swearing at the bouncers
Patrick Murphy
051 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:46:12
Very obscure Mike - were you responsible for last weeks similar one liner?
Eric Myles
052 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:42:17
Dennis #039, it's not a case of managers carrying over mistakes of a previous manager.

I'm just thinking that if OFM had dropped Barkley for Osman he would have been slaughtered on these pages, but with ONM it's OK 'cos the lad needs a rest?

Just pointing out the dual standards of some of the posts.

Steven Telford
053 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:34:44
John #029
If we make it into the top 4 - or if we miss the top 4 - by how many points do you suppose we will be either side of that dividing line.

that's the reason I feel especially frustrated and cited that many of our dropped points as being painfully needless - or as I said, "its bullshit the teams we have dropped against"
Ok, a draw against the shite - that was not the one on my mind, but Palace (major disgrace), Norwich and now today......... they all add up, all the same, its a good season so far - but to turn it into a great season, we really to stop dropping points against very inferior opposition.

Chris James
054 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:40:04
Slowly coming to grips with the days events, but can't help looking at the table and seeing that everyone else was reading the right lines apart from Everton.

We should be 4th (or even better, if our anticipated 3/4 goal victory had materialised), above Liverpool and 2 points of the top waiting for others to slip up.

Wayne Smyth
055 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:24:23
Frustrating to lose against such a god awful side as Sunderland. Been a long time since I saw a side so bad.

The fact we bossed them for about 80 minutes of the match - and 5 of the 10 we didn't we were down to 9 men - tells you not only what a shift the boys put in, but also how bad Sunderland were. Their keeper basically kept them in the game and they got lucky with Osman's individual mistake.

Martinez can't really take much blame for anything other than playing an ill Kevin Mirallas. Personally I'd prefer Martinez not to play Osman because he's too lightweight, but he's still a decent player and you don't expect him to make those mistakes often under no real pressure.

In summary, frustrating as fuck to lose to one of the worst sides to ever play at Goodison and frustrating in the manner in which the goal came. Ultimately its only 3 points though and isn't going to make or break our season, chances of top 4, or chances of the title. What we do in the next 20 games is going to have much more of a bearing on those things. Top 4 is still achievable (we're 2 pts behind the shite), but we can't do it if we keep making individual errors and gifting goals.

One thing I would say is I think Jelavic has deserved a start. Lukaku has gone off the boil in the last few games and Jelavic has looked good when he came on. Neither of them can score at present, but Lukaku is the only one getting playing time. Time for a bit of rotation there and give the big man a rest, perhaps to come off the bench and change a game.

Patrick Murphy
056 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:52:27
Perhaps OFM would not have given Barkley so much playing time in the first place. Let's face it the reason he often took a lot of stick is because he constantly played people who were out of form or not good enough.

This time last year Naismith, Osman, Jelavic Neville, et al were all in the starting line-up on a regular basis.

Dennis Ng
057 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:54:08
Eric, true, but I would think it is a tactical mistake on his part, though he probably was looking to rest Barkley and a bit complacent against Sunderland at the start. Additionally, I think it was a mistake that would have been overlooked if we won. OFM didn't play RB even after he performed well!
Dennis Ng
058 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:00:32
Wayne, I thought we could actually play 2 up front. Lukaku is getting a lot of attention and we're getting the ball into the box A LOT. Jela looked very active despite being rusty. RM should consider playing 2 up to capitalize on our 80% possession!
Eric Myles
059 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:03:22
Patrick #056 as opposed to this year when Pienaar, Mirallas, the same Osman, and lately Lukaku, are in the starting line up when they are not performing.

I guess it's something to do with squad depth, or lack thereof?

Wayne Smyth
060 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:06:43
Agree dennis, 2 up top would work ok too. Barkley and McCarthy in the middle. Not sure who we'd have for wingers. Alternatively we go 3 at the back, 2 up top, Coleman and Oviedo on the wing and 3 from Barkley, McCarthy, Osman, Pienaar in the middle.

I'll say one thing. We lost which I'm pissed about tonight, but I'm so thankful that we're not playing the football like sunderland where we go 1 up and sit behind the ball defending that lead.

I think in the long-term we'll have the last laugh.

Michael Upton
061 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:00:32
Steven Telford (#53)

I would argue it has been a great season so far anyway. Wins against Chelsea and OFM at OT, a thrilling draw at Arsenal, a hair's breadth from coming from behind to beat the RS, a walloping of shitty Stoke after a masterclass from Gerry...have you forgotten all these highlights?

As for dropped points, we battered Norwich for long period and their equaliser was a fluke, Carson produced a MOTM to keep us out v W Brom, we could have easily beaten Cardiff and Spurs and I'd hardly consider the Emirates display dropped points. As for City, would you rather our result or Spurs' or Arsenal's

Meanwhile, I'd argue the worldies against Swansea, Oviedo's late OT winner and Baines masterful double v West Ham all secured points where they wouldn't have been relied upon last year.

RM has been in the job for 18 games and he's lost two. His negative net spend on deadline day was in 8 figures. How about considering the points won instead of the points dropped?

Apart from all that, Merry Christmas!

Mark Taylor
062 Posted 26/12/2013 at 19:48:11
As chance would have it, my pre match comment starts this thread, saying you should always stick with a winning team, injuries aside.

For those defending Martinez's decision on the basis that he thought Barkley needed a rest, clearly he didn't need one, as he was possibly our best player when he came on, and certainly didn't look as knackered as Barkley.

If the reason was that he was on 4 yellow cards, then that is wrong, you have to play for the present not least because the worst (another yellow) may not come to pass. And if it was because RM thought we could beat Sunderland without him, that is worst of all.

if RM wants to play from the back and also accepts that players will make mistakes in doing what he asks for, it may not be the best message to pull Osman off straight away, even if he was the obvious sacrifice. And if Mirallas is ill, as claimed, that isn't obvious anyway.

It's a cock up and frankly a mistake in selection, but these things happen and I agree the test of our mettle is how we bounce back in the next game. Osman will play in that and I hope we get behind him- it was a shocker today, and his lightweight style can be frustrating, but he doesn't deserve permanent villain status.

Trevor Lynes
063 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:14:48
Gus Poyet said that even with 10 men Everton are the best side we have played and it was incredible that we won. He went on to say that his team had finished very tired.

I much prefer to listen to a man who has played the game at the top level and who fully understands how luck was on his side during the match.

I am proud at the success we have had so far and very few mistakes have happened during our season so far compared to other clubs above and below us.

Some of the above comments are ridiculous and if Barkley had started he may well have got booked in which case we would have had Howard, Barry and Barkley out for the next game. Mirallas was taken ill and had to be subbed according to Martinez in his after the match report.

Dennis Ng
064 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:13:14
Wayne,

if Baines is available, I might play him on the Barry spot alongside McCarthy. He has good ball distribution and is primarily a defender. Maybe play him closer to the side of Oviedo to provide cover, while Pienaar to Coleman's side. We don't really have good wingers since Delofeau is out. Play Jags, Dustin at the back as usual, RB right behind the 2 up top. I feel with McCarthy, Baines, Jags, Dustin, Coleman and Oviedo, we're already loaded in defence so as long as they don't move out of position too much, we should have enough coverage.

I feel that today's set up, we're pretty loaded in defence and yet, the fact we are able still able to move the ball around quickly is very good. Osman and Howard had a bad day, RM probably should have started RB, but I'm writing it off as the bad luck day that teams are going to have once in a while. Keep on grinding

Eric Myles
065 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:17:25
Mark #062, I wouldn't have thought Osman was taken off because of Howard's mistake, more likely to consolidate and bide some time to assess the threat Sunderland present with the extra man. When that can be seen to be comfortably managed then make the attacking substitution.

Denis #057, Barkley effectively had a 45 minute 'rest', surely he could have had an afternoon nap yesterday and started today?

Brian Waring
066 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:32:30
The funny thing is, if Martinez had started with Barkley and he would have got a yellow card meaning he would have missed the Southampton game, there would have been loads on here slating Martinez.
Dennis Ng
067 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:32:40
Eric, no doubt. Similarly Mirallas shouldn't have eaten what he ate yesterday or before. The decision is suspect but different from why OFM is not starting RB. I would agree in that it is questionable, though it falls into the category "if it worked, RM is a genius, if it doesn't, everyone would think RM is a moron" type of situation. I'm not really going to second guess why he did that but he probably shouldn't be sitting RB anymore given his second half push.
Mark Tanton
068 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:36:11
We've had a great season so far, and some brilliant performances. But... We're still short in most areas of the squad. We really need another very strong transfer window - and that doesn't mean spending a load of money, but hopefully we can be crafty and creative again. In my opinion we need at least three players in. If Heitinga and Jelavic go than we need four or five.

Give me a central midfielder, a forward and wide player please Bill.

Graham Haines
069 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:37:08
"What a load of over-the-top, raging retarded rhino bollocks"

John Daley, that is brilliant pml when I read that!!! Thank you made my day.

Max Murphy
071 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:36:33
We have to look at Tim Howard in this discussion. Consistently he directly costs us 3 to 9 points a season due to his ridiculous antics and decision-making. We quickly forget these indiscretions when he pulls off great saves and keeps a clean sheet. Hey! Wait a minute! That's his effing job!

You can trawl through the Premier League goalkeepers and find equally impressive performances and great saves. What's keeping Howard in the team is his defence.

We cannot continue with this player, and I hope he is put on the bench after he serves his suspension.

Brian Waring
072 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:47:53
Have a look at the fuck - up again, why the fuck does Howard play the ball out to Osman when he can see Ki closing Osman down?

http://www.goalsarena.org/video/england-barclays-premier-league/26-12-2013-everton-sunderland_en.html

Robin Cannon
073 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:54:21
@Brian - It's not like Ki's right on top of him, he's a few yards away, and just reacts quicker. Besides, it's what we've been doing all season; having the confidence to play out from the back even when we're under some pressure. Otherwise all you'd have to do to stop us playing is push up a little and we'd have to punt every clearance.

That style of play means there'll be some mistakes, and this was a mistake of a slightly misplaced pass from Howard and bad control from Osman. There haven't been many of those this season, and the positives massively outweigh the negatives.

Karl Jones
074 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:54:02
Thought the referee was really incompetent today...Six substitutions, physio on for two minutes treating their defender with a head injury, time wasting at every goalkick and throw in, the wall taking an age to retreat at Barkleys free kick....He adds THREE MINUTES of extra time..
Jamie Barlow
075 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:57:04
" You can trawl through the Premier Leagye goalkeepers and find equally impressive performances and great saves."

Equally, You can trawl through the Premier Leagye goalkeepers and find equally awful decisions and terrible fuck ups.

Brian Waring
076 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:00:03
I haven't got a problem with the cock - up in all reality Robin, just think it's harsh that Osman is getting all the flak.

Also, I'm glad we're playing it out from the back, but from a goal - kick surely one of the full backs should be asking for it out wide.

Eric Myles
077 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:59:36
Robin #073, and combined with Howard's underhit kick, which was probably a poor choice anyway, meant that Osman was under more pressure than need be and would have been the same for any other player that was in that position.

In my business we are always looking at the "root cause' of accidents / incidents in order to ensure they don't happen again. In this case the root cause was Howard.

Anthony Burke
078 Posted 26/12/2013 at 20:52:30
I was fuming with how lucky Sunderland got there keeper was easily man of the match we need to forget this and move on quickly if Chelsea beat Liverpool Sunday and we beat Southampton we go above the shower for a happy new year lets start being positive instead of so much negative feedback from our only defeat in 2013 with 10 men for the majority of the match COYB !!!
Robin Cannon
079 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:11:28
@Brian - Agree. It was just a cock-up. I think it's not so much a terrible touch from Osman as that it looks like he's already moving to try and play the ball before it's even arrived.

@Eric - Is Howard the root cause? Could say that it's full backs who didn't show for a goalkeeper who's been given clear and strong encouragement *not* to punt it long, and will therefore be looking for the long pass.

Does there need to be a root cause? Does there need to be a single player for everyone to jump on and blame? Cock ups happen. Martinez has said that he's perfectly willing to accept mistakes when we're trying to do things the right way; which is exactly what happened here.

Max Murphy
080 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:09:06
Jamie #75, If you've ever watched the greats liked Albert Dunlop, Gordon West, and Nev Southall, Everton supporters shouldn't have to put up with these almost ritualistic mistakes which we witness from our current keeper on a regulsar basis,
Sean Patton
081 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:15:24
No way that is Howard's fault it is Osman who is culpable all day long for me, he does his usual weak as a child routine when put under the slightest bit of pressure.

Whenever Barry comes for the ball in that position he turn his body so that he is sideways on when receiving the pass and can either pass it round the corner or back to the keeper it just highlights that Osman is not strong enough to play in the centre for 90 minutes.

Jamie Barlow
082 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:18:49
"almost ritualistic mistakes which we witness from our current keeper on a regulsar basis."

Wow, biggest overreaction today.

I'd like to say Howard has been fantastic for the most part this season.

Brian Waring
083 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:24:10
Got to agree there Jamie, some of the saves Howard has made to keep us in games have been outstanding.
Brian Wilkinson
084 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:01:19
Bad mistake but these things happen, freak results crop up from time to time,even with eleven men I doubt we would have scored, if their goalie wasn't making saves it was hitting a defender on the backside,clearing off the line,it was a case of one of those days when Lady Luck shines on the underdog.

I understand Barkley on the bench but personally I think Osman plays his best games coming off the bench when the pace of the game has slowed down, therefor I would have started Barkley with the view of resting him after half time.

Again nothing is a banker win in the premiership these days and I'm sure Everton will bounce back, jerk reaction by some fans but you cannot fault the effort for the second half performance, take no team for granted, again we lost to a bad mistake, It could have happened to any player, even Distan in the semi, just a shame it happened to the local whipping boy Osman, yes it was a shocker but again could have happened to any player.

Chin-up fellow blues we've had far more good days than bad this season and I am sure we will bounce back against Southampton.

Max Murphy
085 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:28:37
A goaly should be making good saves! That's his job for f*ck's sake! You judge a good goaly on the amount of mistakes he makes. Unfortunately we have too may from Howard - and no doubt we will see a lot more before the season is out
Jamie Barlow
086 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:37:05
I'm sure he will make more. No more or no less than most other goalkeepers.
Dennis Ng
087 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:28:45
I'm usually of the opinion of "can we get someone better out there within our budget". This is not CM, we have a budget. And to be fair, even with his ritualistic mistakes, he still ranks amongst the top GKs in EPL, if not in the world, especially when big clubs can hoard so many good players.

If Howard (or Osman) is that bad in your eyes, then next week will be the first test for his replacement. I think Osman is a bench player and while I place fault partly to him for the goal, its really a team effort.

Did no one tell him "man on"? Did other players ask for the ball? Did they warn Howard? Don't get me wrong, the 2 of them are culpable but its one mistake in a game out of 38 games. Howard is awesome for many other games and Osman has been good for us sometimes. Should RM bench Osman? Does he have the personnel to do that? Will RB burn out if he plays 38 straight games? This is something RM thinks about. And trust me, RM is great so far, he's not perfect, but I look forward to him with the reins for a long time after the displays we have, even in losing efforts, so far.

David Pearl
088 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:40:34
Osman should of known what was around him without any player having to shout man on! He made a mistake; you can't blame Howard as he has been told to not fear playing a pass to the feet of any of our players.

Looking to the next game Osman is likely to keep his place but being played further forward with Barkley dropping back with McCarthy. The only other option would be to replace Barry with Heitinga and bring Barkley to play once more behind the Lukaku. Time for Martinez to utilise his squad... However all of a sudden its looking pretty small.

I'd like to drop Mirallas but we haven't a replacement.

Mike Gaynes
089 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:34:26
Max (085), if you watch Howard at all, you know he makes about one mistake a season... less, on average, than any other keeper in the Prem.

And this wasn't one of them. Roberto coaches this. We've seen it a couple dozen times this season. Howard plays it out short, if the player is under pressure he plays it back, and THEN Howard launches it downfield.

The blunder was Osman's.

David Pearl
091 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:50:28
Actually its more like 3 or 4 blunders I think Mike :)
However this wasn't one of them; Howard has been outstanding all year and has bailed us out on countless occasions.
Peter Mills
092 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:49:36
Stuff happens. The test of a good team is not about whether it makes mistakes and loses a match. It is all about how they react to such occurrences.
Kevin Rowlands
093 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:45:50
Terrible decision from Howard to give him the ball there, then compounds the mistake with the trip, he'd been better off letting the lad score, we would have still have had an hour to play with 11 on the pitch, don't forget if it wasn't for a last ditch tackle by Barry we'd have been punished by Chelsea for another one of his fuck ups, he needs to be told to not try anything that's remotely risky, 3 points well and truly thrown away today.
Paul Ferry
094 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:44:22
HAHA Sam - 961 - no it's Female Ferry's fault her first and fecking last match, didn't get her a ticket for Sunday, how prescient was that! We swapped tickets for the Park End for a great view - last 2 seats in upper bullens next to st end - of sadly that goal. Female Ferry was cursing Ossie and Timmy in equal measure and I have to agree. At the time I put it more down to TH but ....

So sad, but a 2nd half to be proud of. Nothing wrong with Everton, nothing wrong with Bobby - the Jelly sub was upbeat and positive and it nearly worked a treat. Thought Barry was a little under par, McCarthy was ace, Coleman is winging his way to player of the season, Ross made a difference but still on one time too many just made that wrong last second decision.

I normally get to three or four games a season Ross (Edwards) - cheers for the sentiments mate - but this was the first this season and my first time watching Ross from the pitch perspective The Old Lady gives, he's a fabergee diamond.

Disappointing, doubly disappointing, but results around us were not that bad for us, a glitch not a deadly sore, onwards and upwards, we'll put it right on Sunday, wave to me in the Park End (Stand), all the best to one and all ........

Paul Ferry
095 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:44:22
HAHA Sam - 961 - no it's Female Ferry's fault her first and fecking last match, didn't get her a ticket for Sunday, how prescient was that! We swapped tickets for the Park End for a great view - last 2 seats in upper bullens next to st end - of sadly that goal. Female Ferry was cursing Ossie and Timmy in equal measure and I have to agree. At the time I put it more down to TH but ....

So sad, but a 2nd half to be proud of. Nothing wrong with Everton, nothing wrong with Bobby - the Jelly sub was upbeat and positive and it nearly worked a treat. Thought Barry was a little under par, McCarthy was ace, Coleman is winging his way to player of the season, Ross made a difference but still on one time too many just made that wrong last second decision.

I normally get to three or four games a season Ross (Edwards) - cheers for the sentiments mate - but this was the first this season and my first time watching Ross from the pitch perspective The Old Lady gives, he's a fabergee diamond.

Disappointing, doubly disappointing, but results around us were not that bad for us, a glitch not a deadly sore, onwards and upwards, we'll put it right on Sunday, wave to me in the Park End (Stand), all the best to one and all ........

Dennis Ng
096 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:56:56
Well said Peter! Too bad we couldn't score but we always had problems with scoring. The second half performance would have gave opponents a heart attack any other day.
John Malone
097 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:39:28
Im as a depressed as anyone with that result today but had to mention how good was Distin talk about standing up to be counted for, fast, strong, good in the air and now starting to pass a lot better for me he epitomises the great team spirit and work ethic of the team and definitely deserves a contract extension.

Today was a blip bad decision to leave out Barkley and bad decision by Howard to give Ossie the ball under pressure, it's not the end of the world there's still along way to go. It's going to be a hard game Sunday we need to grind out the win and do some good business in January as said in earlier posts Lukaku and Mirallas have gone MIA lately fingers crossedfor good attacking players.

Tony Fearns
098 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:51:42
If you can't score against the bottom team in league you are not the team you think you are. Personalities getting far too big for their boots already.
Max Murphy
100 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:48:40
Mike, I appreciate your views, but I think Howard's mistakes are more frequent than you say, and they have cost us points. The pass to Osman was never on - there were other options.
Kunal Desai
102 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:43:31
Just back from the game. Our home record had to go at some stage and how fitting was it that it went to a bottom of table side without an away win this season. Talk about home bankers. Why do we always start fucking slow, it was the same against Fulham, not pressing the opposition enough and giving them too much room, not playing a high tempo, too many missed placed passes. Aside from the horrendus mistake by Osman, we didn't create anything in that first half, Barkley was unlucky with his freekick which the keeper pushed aside and Jelavic unlucky with his header that was cleared off the line. In truth, January can't come quick enough, today desperately showed that we need 2-3 more bodies in when the window opens, Mirallas yet again poor and Lukaku starved of any support and creativity. We badly missed Deulofeu. Hopefully this is just a blip and the players can get this performance out of there system by beating Southampton on Sunday. Sunderland didn't do anything in this match, we gifted them 3 xmas points.
Some of the comments on here are daft, yes we lost to the leagues worse team, every team has off days, if 40,000 supporters at the end were cheering off the team, that tells you something doesn't it. They believe and I believe. Let's get behind the side and get those 3 points on sunday!! COYB!
Kevin Rowlands
103 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:58:54
So Mike, was it a mistake to trip the guy and leave us with 10 men for over an hour? he made a mistake they were both guilty in a whole lot worse by tripping the guy, anyone think we couldn't have come back and won from 1-0 down with over an hour left with 11 men? no didn't think so.
Ross Kerry
104 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:06:34
I went to see Watford beat Millwall today, the game was dead within 20 minutes when Millwall had a man sent off and conceded a penalty at the same time. I was delighted when the match was basically awarded to my second team but gutted to hear the shitty end of the same stick being picked up by Tim Howard and Everton.
Instant karma, gutted.
But we all shine on.
Kevin Tully
105 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:53:59
Hello lads . For the first time I haven't read what's been said above without commenting .

Was it a shit performance? No. There are some days were we could not score in a brothel with £50. That was one one those days.

I went into town after the game to watch the r.s tKe their medicine. That helped.

We move on. Worried we may slide. I sincerely hope we come out fighting next game. I've got a turkey butty and tea. Keep the faith.

Dennis Ng
106 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:05:32
Max, you remind me of the time I called him "Howler Howard" back when he's at manu. There still aren't that many better GKs though.
David Pearl
107 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:03:39
Howard has a right to expect an international midfielder with 10 years of premier league experience, who is showing for the ball, to be able to control the fakin thing..
Paul Ferry
108 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:08:04
How fecking silly:

Tony Fearns - 098 - If you can't score against the bottom team in league you are not the team you think you are. Personalities getting far too big for their boots already.

Dennis Ng
109 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:07:46
Ross, next time, don't worry about your second team. Worry about your 1st!
Sean Kelly
110 Posted 26/12/2013 at 21:51:20
Sorry I haven't read all the comments but the fault is with Ossie. He is just too weak to be still playing at this level. Unfortunately he will start in our next game as Barry is out.

I don't buy the idea that Barkley needs a rest. RM should start every game with his strongest starting eleven and take it from there. Barkley could have got a rest after an hour if he needed it. Ossie can't last for more than half an hour.

What the hell is RM saving Barkley for? Is it England trip to Brazil? Miralles is a lazy joke. He only upped his game when Del Boy was showing him up in the last few games. He is also a selfish bastard. Is there a problem with him and Lukaku? He never seems to pass to him as he wants the glory for himself.

Come on, Roberto, give them a kick up the arse. I think they need it; I'm sick as a parrot after losing today because they were there for the taking.

Paul Ferry
111 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:13:53
Spot on Rick Tarleton - 040 - 'The reason why Tim Howard, nice bloke I'm sure, ranks way below the top Everton goalies of my lifetime is shown today. A great shop stopper, yes, but under pressure, crosses, a man on the line, even one-on-one and the red mist (Tourettes?) kicks in and he makes a decision that denies reason.'

Now go and read the star-spangled-banner-bollocks from Mike Gaynes - 89 - who full disclosure is as you might suspect an American who started supporting Everton in the Timmy/Landon era - nothing wrong with that, but spare me this Uncle Samminess.

Apparently folks, according to Mike Gaynes, Howard makes about one mistake a season, yes about one mistake a season. This patriotic blunderballs cannot not pass by without comment. Yes Howard has been v good these last 2 months but today as Rick notes is the reason why he will never be dependable.

Yes it was as Ossie/Timmy rocky show horror, but it was Howard who played the ball in the first place after a little dithering that allowed Osman to say WTF and the sunderland fella to say aye aye ....

I would love to see Robies do a great job in TH's absence - hardly tested today apart from the double save that came I suppose from his mistake on the first - TODAY folks Robies in one match made as many mistakes as Howard in an entire season, about one .....

stop sides ........

Kevin Tully
113 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:22:07
Arrrr eh P.F. show some Chrimbo spirit yer miserable fecker.

After all, we haven’t lost till you showed up! (And yer never bought me a Chang)

Kevin Rowlands
114 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:25:09
I agree Paul, Howard is not the future for Everton, Robles is, I hope the lad has the same impact as Oviedo the next three games, I appreciate what Howard has done for Everton but he is not, never has been and never will be a world class goalkeeper, and before you argue that MG, if that was truly the case he would still be at Old Trafford today.
Tony Cawson
115 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:18:16
Karl Jones, Yes the time wasting started on goal kicks in the first 10 minutes.

More annoying for me is Jags as captain should be in the refs ear straight away.

From where I was sitting I saw nobody else speak to the ref until 70 odd minutes and that was McCarthy.

Not suggesting constant hounding of officials but we are far too quiet and nice. It would be good to see a few quality additions in January with a little bit of a nark and mouth on them too.

Dennis Ng
116 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:29:30
Paul, very true. If we're aiming for the title every year, Howard's not the one. That's why he's shipped out of manu. I think for now, he is great, like how we went from Richard Wright to Nigel Martyn and now Howard. Depends on the need really! I really want to see how Robles do as well. I hope he turns out to be a "Casillas" because he's very young!

Also, RM's tinkering for next game will be interesting since Barry will also be out.

Paul Thompson
117 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:05:57
Agree with Kunai. Was also at the game and the reaction of the fans to the team's efforts was a lot more positive than on here. Oviedo and Coleman were superb. But we do need to strengthen in the window to maintain our challenge.
Paul Ferry
118 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:33:49
HAHAHAH Kev - 113 - I'll be there on Sunday too ....
Mike Connolly
119 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:28:31
I'll do a Roberto Martinez and take the positives from the game.

It's a chance to see Robies stake a claim in goal. I'm not a Howard fan and I don't blame him entirely for the goal. However, after nail-biting years with him in goal, I'll be more than happy with the change.

Paul Ferry
120 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:36:11
Kunai is spot on, the reception the lads got after the final whistle was testament to the spirit and effort and skill showed after that 'orrid cock-up.

Great comparison Kev Rowlands, Oviedo/Baines, Robies/Howard ....

Paul Ferry
121 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:36:11
Kunai is spot on, the reception the lads got after the final whistle was testament to the spirit and effort and skill showed after that 'orrid cock-up.

Great comparison Kev Rowlands, Oviedo/Baines, Robies/Howard ....

Chris Cook
122 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:34:37
It did make me laugh how little faith a fair few fans around me today had in Robles. It's like they've forgotten he is an FA Cup Winner.... :D
Dennis Ng
123 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:43:30
PF, I hope we keep blooding these youngsters, even if we have to sell a few, because that is what I think will make us reach UCL consistently very quickly and still have a nice balance sheet!
James Stewart
124 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:46:28
The stick Howard is getting is very harsh he didn't really do anything wrong! I'm no Howard fan but this season he has been immaculate and was immense in the Arsenal game.

Osman is the one who is way past his sell by date. We need a midfielder to come in January badly. Someone like Diame

Mike Gaynes
125 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:32:38
Kevin (114), I guess that would depend on your definition of "world-class" keeper. I've watched Howard for years win games for USA teams that were inferior to their opponents, and I'm not sure the US makes the 2010 Word Cup without him -- he was transcendant in qualifying. (That's sort of a US tradition -- Keller and Friedel used to win games for weak sides all the time.)

Of course he's not the future... he's almsot 35, and may have one more season after the World Cup. But Roberto obviously still thinks he's the best keeper he has, or Joel would be starting. And the day Roberto thinks Joel is the best, he'll be in there. But Howard has won a couple for Everton this year with sensational saves, and I still say there's nobody better on pens.

As for Howard no longer being at Old Trafford, that's simple -- VDS was better, one of the five best in the world at the time, and Howard was erratic. I think anybody who calls him erratic now hasn't been watching.

That said, Roberto's comment in postgame laid shared responsibility on Howard and Osman. I yield to the manager's judgement.

Mike Gaynes
126 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:54:48
And by the way, Kev, it's only one game, not three.
James Stewart
127 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:54:19
Mike I'd agree with that but Martinez didn't lay shared blame all he said was that it was a red card due to the letter of the law. Osman creates the situation Howard just reacts to that.
Graham Murphy
128 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:02:07
I had my first real gamle of the season last night. I went on Paddy Power and bet on Chelski. Arsenal, Man U and we would win. I was to get over £27 for a £5 bet! I should have known better!!!!
Mike Gaynes
129 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:01:40
James, Martinez didn't blame Howard for the foul, but he did take issue with the pass. Since the replay I saw only showed Ossie stepping on the ball, and since RM dictates how we'll bring the ball out of the back, if he says Howard made the wrong pass, obviously I'm going to go with that.
James Stewart
130 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:05:21
He didn't mention that in the BBC interview but fair enough if he said that Mike. I would disagree though. Yes its not the best pass in the world but all Osman had to do was knock it to any one of 3 players instead he made an absolute pigs ear of it. I also blame Martinez for dropping Barkley and putting Osman in. A mistake.
Brent Stephens
131 Posted 26/12/2013 at 22:20:53
Trevor Lynes talks much sense above.

I think Ossie's slip is Ossie's mistake, no question. Horrible.

I also think that Howard playing it to Ossie is not the greatest of goalkicks.

But I also think that that is how Roberto wants us to play - from and around the back. And we've been saying all along that in playing that way there will be times when there's a booboo at the back. Today we saw it. Doesn't excuse the slip, but we've been predicting the consequences of this sort of slip for a while now.

Mike Gaynes
132 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:08:47
Agreed on that one, James! Roberto has dazzled me with his ability to pick just the right lineup and just the right subs this season, but assuming Barkley was fully healthy, I'm surprised Ossie was in there... and absolutely astonished that an obviously ill Mirallas was in there as well.
Mike Gaynes
133 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:11:18
Also, Roberto's comment about the shared responsibility was in the Daily Post interview, not on the BBC.
Paul Ferry
135 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:10:16
Still waiting for Mike Gaynes to defend his star-spangled-banner comment that Timmy makes about one mistake a season. Don't hold yer breath, he's misrepresenting what the gaffer said after the match but will not defend his own speculations.
James Stewart
136 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:13:40
Agreed Mike the Mirallas fiasco was bizarre. If he was ill why the hell did he start? And why did he just disappear leaving us down to 9 men for a few minutes! Shambles. Lets hope its a lesson learned for RM
Christopher Kelly
137 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:09:28
I apologize if this had been stated (I read close to 100 posts)... I've never seen anything funnier on the pitch than Jelavic trying 4 bikes in the matter of 90 seconds. God dammit man get a grip! It was like playing a video game and you keep fucking with your buddy by hitting the bicycle button. Truly miraculous. Thanks at least, Jela!
Dennis Ng
138 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:26:48
Chris, I thought that was awkward too. But I gotta give him the effort points. Would be nice if he connected with one, even if it was off target/
Patrick Murphy
139 Posted 26/12/2013 at 23:23:35
Everton should have had a penalty near the end for handball.

Referees seem to have screwed a lot of teams over today, bookings not made against the usual suspects which may have altered some of the results.

Jamie Crowley
150 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:38:16
SO many over-reactions here. I understand the disappointment but...

We completely played them off the park after the horrendous human error we all witnessed.

I was actually proud of our effort down a man.

Well said John Daley at 968. I concur 100%.

It was a human moment and my brother-in-law who watched the game with me along with myself, 2 sons, 4 cousins, a sister, a niece and a great-niece summed it up perfectly (and he knows nothing about "soccer"). He said - "Their keeper beat you. You shoulda scored at least 4 times."

And down a man...

Onwards and Upwards. Great second half effort - in fact a valiant beautiful effort. We move on.

Dave Hall
151 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:40:32
A big game for Red Card today across the league. This is a shite sandwich that Osman can have all to himself if you ask me. Howard should never have decided to get sent off instead of conceding, but I cannot blame the man for an instinctive reaction off a disastrous touch. Timmy's been fantastic for us all season and can't believe some of the crap he's taking from some Evertonians for this afternoon's debacle.

This is the last time we see ole' Ozzie get in the starting 11 for some time I hope!

Mick Davies
152 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:15:32
It must be Howard's fault for doing something he's done 100's of times this season; passing the ball to a team mate who was calling for it. He should have realised who it was and put the ball anywhere else. Osman is a disaster around our box and if every other defender/midfielder can safely pick up the ball and shield it, then pass it, it must mean he hasn't got the ability to play in this team.

Martinez is trying to build a possession culture in the team and THAT'S WHY Howard passed the ball, so it's not his fault: what he was responsible for is not throwing his hands at the ball, as more times than not, even if a ref thinks it may be a foul, he can't be sure due to the natural flailing of arms over the ball. Sitting on his arse and kicking out (even though he made little contact) gave the despicable Probert just the excuse he needed to get his repugnant rodent features and mincing gait on centre stage. We now have 2 players ineligible and hopefully one discarded for the Soton game. Judging by the domination of our depleted ranks in the 2nd half, we have the spirit to bounce back. I also agree with previous comments that the change was unnecessary; if anyone should have been benched it would have been Distin, our oldest outfield player. Can't wait for Sunday and we'll get this blip out of our system COYBB

Jamie Crowley
153 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:49:37
By the way, the most amazing thing happened while at the pub.

A Scot, in his Liverpool jersey, made some friendly comments to us this morning while we were watching the game. Nice fella...

I order the Irish breakfast, my son orders the sausage rolls, and my other son orders a shepherds pie.

We eat, I have a few beers. I'm in agony screaming at every chance missed... the guy leaves the pub.

The lovely bartender comes over after he's left and tells us "that man in the Liverpool jersey just bought your breakfast."

It must be Christmas. I'd understand it if he was an American band-wagon jumper, but he was from across the pond.

A red bought a blue breakfast...

He said on the way out "root for Liverpool". I didn't know he'd bought our meal. I responded, "that'll be tough, can't do it friend."

My sons were beside themselves, as was I.

Roman Sidey
154 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:56:20
I missed the first half hour, so could be barking up the wrong tree, but what the fuck was Osman doing back there for a goal kick? Wasn't he selected behind the striker?

If he is selected in Barry's absence in few days, I'll be pissed. There are several other options before that is needed, and he needs to pay his penalty just as other players have in past seasons (Barkley, Heitinga, Coleman to name 3 current players).

Mike Gaynes
155 Posted 27/12/2013 at 01:25:51
Lovely story, Jamie. That's a one-off Christmas tale if I've ever heard one. Thanks for the smile on a day when we all needed one.
Mike Gaynes
156 Posted 27/12/2013 at 01:27:59
Roman and Mick, Roberto's quote on Daily Post after the game is that both were responsible.

"We have very strong concepts for when a pass is on and what the decision will be when you receive the ball. Both players probably got their decisions wrong. But they are two players who have been reliable throughout the season, winning us so many points, and we are going to learn from this."

Si Cooper
157 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:29:32
I understand the disappointment and frustration but thanks to John Daley and his like for restoring some sanity.

To say it was inevitable that we would mess up a game like this or call today's performance 'choking' is just defeatist nonsense.

If the manager selects Osman and the opposition simply pour through the midfield all game then the manager can be called for a wrong selection; if the player screws up a simple decision and gifts an opponent a clear goal-scoring opportunity you can't fault the selection on the basis of that isolated incident. This isn't a kick-about in the park and even youngsters may struggle to play 3 games in a week at full effectiveness (which is what we require from potential game winners like Ross Barkley).

Was Howard equally culpable and should he have let the player simply score to avoid the possibility of a red card?

It was a poor option to take but it looked to me that Osman asked for the ball, and he always had the simple option (if he realised Ki was bearing down on him) of playing the ball back to Howard for him to punt up field. Ossie didn't slip, he stumbled because he seemed to want to attempt to turn as the ball reached him, presumably because he was expecting an imminent challenge. If Howard gave him a warning shout and he still attempted this manoeuvre rather than taking the easy option then the blame is his alone.

Would any of us be happy if the keeper didn't make any attempt, however futile, to challenge the attacker in these situations? Wouldn't that be another stride down the 'only attacking play counts' road? I have long thought that the straight red is unfair on these occasions unless it is reserved for a deliberate foul. A genuine attempt to get to the ball fairly shouldn't even be a yellow as the award of a penalty kick is severe enough.

Mark Wilson
158 Posted 27/12/2013 at 01:20:27
Strewth, it's just like old times on here ! After a few months pinching ourselves because we are / were actually up there competing for a champions league spot, we go and make a bollocks of a seemingly routine home fixture, and some want to string the mgr up from the crossbar, and worse for Osman !

Truth is the wheels have come off, just a wee bit. Fulham looked a great win on paper but wasn't. Swansea was a game of two great goals and lot of solid but often going nowhere possession. Since those performances at Utd and Arsenal there are signs that injuries are starting to impact, at exactly the same moment that several players are running out of steam - aka Mirallas and Lukaku really struggling. The latter is a surprise but it's really quite stark. Suddenly you can see that he isn't that good at heading the ball or holding it up and his first touch can be woeful. Yep he clearly can run at defences and we know he can finish..... But right know he's getting poor service and looks nothing like the confident no9 we saw a few weeks ago and that's an issue.

The screams at this defeat are understandable. It's not about the loss as such, it's about the nerve shredding angry frustration at watching a superb opportunity go begging....again. This was about "context". In the scheme of things it was about going above the shite and putting real pressure on Arsenal, Chelsea and yes City. It was about confidence and momentum. It doesn't wipe out a very good season so far, it doesn't mean the new mgr is rubbish but it does mean we badly need to win the next two or quickly face losing contact with those above us.

I'm pissed off at Howard and Osman but frankly I thought even with ten men and one nil down we were, or should have been, good enough to win. Sunderland are dire and were missing key players at the back. But apart from two or three genuinely unlucky missed chances, I thought we ran out of ideas quite quickly and Sunderland frustrated us at times with surprisingly clever if dull possession football of their own. Why change a winning team ? Answer, don't, whatever the risks.

It's all just a real shame, a disappointment, and as I say, in context of this season, a missed opportunity but if we can put aside injuries and suspensions and beat an inconsistent Southampton and a bloody aweful Stoke City, things can get back on track just in time for a couple or three January arrivals and clearly they are needed.

Mick Davies
159 Posted 27/12/2013 at 00:57:30
Some of the above comments beggar belief; "Osman should only come on for the last 20 mins" and "Osman shouldn't be there, it's up to the defenders to pick up the ball from Howard".

If a player with over a decades experience in the PL, 300 games at the same club and international caps can't be trusted to receive a pass ANYWHERE on the pitch, he shouldn't be in a side which had ambitions of finishing above relegation. And if a player can't manage to play at that standard for 90 mins then he shouldn't be playing end of. He wasn't sold short or even made to move to the ball, it went to his feet and Ki was yards behind him, under 10's football and if we don't have a better player in his position somewhere at the club, we are fucked

Gavin Ramejkis
160 Posted 27/12/2013 at 01:36:42
I've simmered down before posting and also waited to see what the children of satan would get up to this afternoon, luckily Man City did the job there. A moment of madness which did have me screaming why not just let the lad go and fight back with 11 men rather than risk an obvious red and a penalty? Anyway the second half other than lack of scoring showed we battered them with 10 men but just couldn't finish. Mirallas pretty much the invisible man again today, Lukaku off the boil but had to explain to a guy in the Park End why he was out on the right wing second half - because there was no other bugger there and who else could cross into the box for other players to have a go?

Jelavic needs to remember he isn't in the Scottish Pub League anymore and his multiple fucked up overhead kicks have no place in a crowded area, christ just boot the bleeding ball. I hope the poundland Geordies do get relegated as they are utterly gash.

One plus side got to share a pint before kick off with Kunal, was good to meet up again and fit in a beer, we'll have to line that up again mate.

Tim Jones
163 Posted 27/12/2013 at 02:47:49
What is now clear is that Osman should never again start a match for Everton and should maybe only be brought on as a 'timewasting' substitution and then only if we are at least three goals up. Depending on the performances of Robles Howard should be made to spend some significant time in the 'stiffs'. Mirallas seems to be 'not fit for purpose' and I don't know about HIM getting the 'shits' but he gives me the 'shits' every time I watch him play.
Dick Fearon
165 Posted 27/12/2013 at 02:45:23
Unneccesary team picks saw OFM press the self destruct button.
I sincerely hope the Sunderland game has taught Roberto the stupidity of such experimentation.
Barkley is young and super fit, If Roberto truly believes a few extra games over the holiday period is too much for him why bother qualifying for Europe.
Mike Dolan
166 Posted 27/12/2013 at 02:24:26
Howard who has a tendency to become erratic has been fantastic up until today. Osman has been great also. The ball Howard played Osman was the wrong ball to the wrong player. Osman stumbled a little on receiving it, unfortunately that happens. What is worrying is that he was so slow to react after he coughed the ball up he just stood there beaten. It was a comedy of errors. I thought Robles looked good when he came on which is a plus. Miralles always blows hot and cold and just lately he blows really cold the best he has looked all season was at the beginning of the season on when he was moved inside to replace Lukaku .
Tim Jones
168 Posted 27/12/2013 at 03:39:05
Four people came out of yesterdays game with egg on their faces , Roberto for incorrectly playing useless Osman in place of Barkley, Osman himself for being useless and Howard for a stunning self inflicted injury with his misguided pass to useless powder puff Osman and his subsequent calamitous foul getting him sent off and Mirallas for coming on the pitch with the 'shits' especially if he had not informed management that he had them and if he DID inform them and was played anyway then thats another bad mark against Roberto.
Tahir Abdullah
175 Posted 27/12/2013 at 04:46:53
Roman @ 154, thanks for raising the question. I saw the 1st 30 minutes (including the unfortunate gift to Sunderland) and was also wondering why Osman was receiving a pass ,as the player nearest the keeper. Where was our central defense? Surely passing out from the back should happen within context ie what is the team setting up to do at any given time? If our defense had already moved into a more offensive position, it would suggest that this stuff-up was largely due to Ossie's lack of sense in "offering" himself as an outlet for Howard playing out from the back (& thereby compromising the entire team's field position). Tippy tappy is great, but passing out from the back cannot IMO be done in such an ill-considered manner.

Despite conceding a shite goal and an even shitter defeat against a truly rubbish team, the 10 left (at any given time) after the sending off gave their all NSNO! Shit happens, live and learn and so forth...let's now get behind the lads for the duel against the Saints. COYB!

Clive Lewis
177 Posted 27/12/2013 at 06:26:44
Osmans fault not Howards, He should have passed it back properly.

We need some depth, I am hoping that Martinez signs a couple in January, If not, we are destined for a top 6 finish. We need another Striker and a Midfielder, that are better than Heitinga and Jelavic, to be honest it might be difficult finding a better striker to Jelavic and his early form. I still feel that maybe Jelavic should be given more of a chance. Heitinga wasn't too bad in that midfield position, he was shocking as a defender.

Clive Lewis
178 Posted 27/12/2013 at 06:35:32
Tim 163
I blame Osman for Mirallas and his "dribbly runs".
Nick Entwistle
187 Posted 27/12/2013 at 08:19:49
Younger football fans wont remember this, but in years past there used to be this skill called 'going round the 'keeper'. Players would be in a one on one with the goalie and exhibit this great skill to score a goal. The 'keepers aren't doing anything different today and yet this skill is rarely, if at all, seen.

It was a dive all day long.

Oooooh but there was contact!

Now whether he 'waited' for contact or simply chose to hit the deck, it was a dive dive dive. The refs should have courage not to blow the whistle.

Anyway, love how selfish Ross was being when he came on. Would like to see more or that. All the great players think they can do it all on their own and soon enough he will.

John Steadman
193 Posted 27/12/2013 at 08:51:58
Playing the type of football we are, tippy tappy at the back was always going to be a problem, we've got out of jail a few times this season when it's gone wrong, and WE WILL HAVE A FEW MORE scary moments before the end of the season.
The biggest problem to me is we are getting predictable with no plan B, yesterday on the bench, there was only young Ross who was a game changer, what's wrong in certain positions like the last 5 minutes yesterday, ditch the philosophy and push Distin up and go long ball, as Sunderland were content to let us shoot from outside the box!
Cannot fault the commitment but sadly no quality, unfortunately looking at this squad of players no depth, KENWRIGHT time for big investment in the summer, you have run this great club into the ground!!!!!
Dave Lynch
197 Posted 27/12/2013 at 09:11:50
Watched this on MOTD a few times.

Osman was fucking day dreaming the useless twat. Nick is right, it was a dive.

Look at the replay closely and you will see he knocks the ball to far in front of himself and the swan dives.

Mark Tanton
199 Posted 27/12/2013 at 09:22:08
I just saw Osman again on MotD — I can't remember the last time I saw such a cock-up. What a fucking disaster; Osman really wants shooting for that. Anyone who defends him is being ridiculously kind. He should be pilliored for it.
Tim Jones
201 Posted 27/12/2013 at 10:13:27
I do hope that Lukaku is not turning in to Jelavic MKII
Dan McKie
212 Posted 27/12/2013 at 10:52:29
I know I'm late on this but the thing that gets me is that playing it out to a holding midfielder is all well and good, but what were Osman's options had he not cocked up? He had 1 option, which was back to Howard, who would probably then done what he should have done in the first place and whacked it up field. It was pointless.

I thought Barkley should have been allowed to ride the crest of a wave from the Swansea game, and the decision to drop him was Moyes-esque, keep his feet on the ground bollocks. Martinez has banged on so much about using the whole squad that I don't think he believes you can use the same 11 players for 2 games in a row.

We need to bounce back. The gaff yesterday cost us the game, and it is up to the players and the manager to make sure it doesn't cost us our momentum, as the second half was still a decent performance and their defence led a very charmed life. Barry will be missed. I'm not sure McCarthy knew what he was doing yesterday, it wasn't one of his better games.

Patrick Murphy
215 Posted 27/12/2013 at 11:21:41
This tippy-tappy football has ruined Everton's defensive record hasn't it? - oh no...sorry which PL team has conceded the fewest goals and lost the fewest games? Our problem remains at the other end of the pitch we need a finisher / creative striker and we need one now.
Danny Kewley
223 Posted 27/12/2013 at 11:40:26
Well said Nick(187) Would be nice to see a ref having the backbone to book a diver, although I suppose on the spur of the moment like in yesterdays case it can look nailed on. Anyway One albatross does not make a Winter! Let us learn from the mistake of the sinners and shove it right up the fucking Saints
COYTofffffffffeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!

Andy Walker
232 Posted 27/12/2013 at 12:48:06
Howard had the ball under no pressure, he clearly had time to think and make a considered decision about how to distribute the ball. So of all the options available and under no pressure Howard decided to pass to Osman who he could see was marked and who could only possibly pass the ball back to Howard. So now Howard has created a situation where at best he will distribute the ball and get it back in 3 seconds.

Sure Osman should not have miscontrolled it but what the hell was Howard going to achieve by passing it to Osman in the first place? He just created a situation where at best he would be back to where he started ie Howard with the ball, or at worst Osman fucks up. So Howard decided to give Osman a chance to fuck up and he obliged.

Noel Early
234 Posted 27/12/2013 at 13:03:07
I blame Howard as much as I do Osman, ridiculous error punished to the extreme, I was worried about today, always maintain that if teams come to goodison looking for a point they can get it with a bit of luck and good defensive shape.Similar to Palace game away never looked like scoring for long periods.

Hopefully this teaches everybody not to look too far ahead, one game at a time mantra needs to be adopted from here on in. Southampton will be a very difficult game.Squad looks bare now, if Martinez was going resting anybody yesterday it should have been Lukaku,he looks knackered and half the player he was earlier on in season. Gibson and Kone's injuries are now beginning to be felt.Game was made for Deulefeo yesterday and his injury couldn't have come at a worse time.

Mike Dolan
236 Posted 27/12/2013 at 12:53:15
The reaction here to the Leon and Tim frightful moment of brainfreeze is just a little over the top. It was a day after Christmas eggnog induced one off freak show. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason Leon was receiving the ball in that position was because he had been instructed to do so because his distribution in spite of what happened yesterday is generally good especially in what should have been a no pressure situation. It was a lousy nonchalant ball out by Timmy who then gave no indication of the imminant danger to Osman who was waddling around like a training ground turkey. I'm dreading the reaction on Sunday and hope the fans will be big enough to forgive Leon, though I hope deep down he has been left hanging in the dressing room by his tiny little toenails for three days.
Andrew Clare
240 Posted 27/12/2013 at 13:59:47
Everyone makes mistakes. Howard and Osman are two good Evertonians like all of us.

I think that it would’ve been a difficult game regardless of the sending off. Even clubs who spend a fortune on their playing staff struggle to beat teams who put ten men behind the ball. This is why players who can unlock a massed defence are worth their weight in gold.

Number One priority in the transfer market should be a creative player. If Deulofeu was fit, he would have been the ideal man in a game like this to produce a goal.

We should not underestimate Southampton as they will be just as difficult. The thing is I am just delighted that we have RM as our manager as I know that long term we will be a far more attractive outfit than before.

Don’t knock or players — they play for Everton and Tim and Leon have been first class over the years.

Christopher Kelly
245 Posted 27/12/2013 at 13:44:34
It is NOT an over reaction in regards to tiny, little Leon. Yes for TH and RM. If he hadn't been fucking things up for years, it would be a lot easier to give Little Leon a pass. He has, so this is just another indicator that his mind is elsewhere and not up to snuff. Sorry. There is too much to lose at this point and the margins too tight.

We can all say "it's just 3 points" — guess what? This is the tightest title race in many years and this should've been a home 3 pointer. Sorry. In my eyes Leon is 80% to blame....

And another thing is, how little confidence the team must have in Little Leon. He must be at a point where players are nervous to pass him the ball?? Most of the time he'll give you a safe sideways or backwards pass but sometimes he'll step on it like an idiot and poof, there goes the dependability

Brent Stephens
247 Posted 27/12/2013 at 14:41:21
Christopher #245 — "And another thing is, how little confidence the team must have in Little Leon. He must be at a point where players are nervous to pass him the ball??"

I bet the stats don't bear that out. When Osman plays, he has a high number of passes received and given.

Mike Gaynes
250 Posted 27/12/2013 at 14:46:41
Danny Kewley and Nick Entwistle, don't you think if it had been a dive there would have been some sort of protest from the Everton players? Howard is a fiery guy who has never been known to hold his tongue. And he didn't offer a peep of protest. Clearly he knew, and the rest of the guys knew, that it was a foul.
John Steadman
251 Posted 27/12/2013 at 14:48:32
Patrick #215 I am not suggesting that the goal has ruined Everton's defensive record; what I am suggesting is that none of us fans are sitting comfortably when they are playing tippy-tappy football, and even the players don't look comfortable, this won't change until Martinez is allowed to bring players in, who are use to playing this type of football naturally.

It is not natural for English players to play this way. I believe that 90%+ of us, would rather Howard launch it and play tippy-tappy from the half way line forwards.

Still, I can't wait for Sunday and the next match. I can't remember having that feeling to many times under Moyes and some of the drivel of the last 10 years, that we have had to endure!

Nick Entwistle
252 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:14:11
Mike, he knew and the rest of the guys knew that refs take the easy option. Which is why players take the dive in the first place.
Christopher Kelly
253 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:11:57
I disagree Brent. Players pass to Leon because he usually passes safely sideways or backwards and sometimes forwards. Major Gaffes like these (the ones that replay over and over and are the "highlight" type) gaffes are the ones the define a career and reputation. If you privately asked the players if they have confidence in Ossie or would like a replacement in January, my gut feeling is most would look for a younger, more dynamic type player.
Brent Stephens
257 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:31:22
Christopher, why would they pass to Leon if they had so little confidence in him and there was usually a better pass on? And if Howard had so little confidence in him and yet passed to him... well, says it all.
Dan Brierley
258 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:32:44
Chris Kelly, I think you should listen to some of the interviews of players that see and play with Ossie every day in training. They seem to be unanimous in that he is the most skilful player at the club, and has been for some time. This was RM's assessment a couple of weeks ago:

"Leon is a bright, bright footballer. He's someone who takes ideas on board, he understands the reasons and he makes teams think. I think if you look at his quick feet in tight spaces he always gives you something. He understands where the space is, is quick and alert and he has a lot to offer."

I think it goes without saying that as a club we need to look at replacing him as he is definitely in the twilight of his career. But saying that this gaffe will define his career depends on the person:

For some people, they are adamant he has been shit since he started playing for us so will be more than happy that he royally fucked up. Many were even wishing it to happen to end his career with us.

For others, they will appreciate having a true Evertonian playing 300 games for us, during which he has scored some exceptional goals.

Frank Crewe
259 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:40:49
I'm appalled by the vilification of Osman on these pages. Howard had the entire pitch to hit that goal kick into yet he chose to tap it to a marked player right in front of his goal. He then compounded his error by bringing the player down giving away a penalty which resulted in a goal and getting himself sent off and reducing his side to ten men. I doubt it would be possible to make a bigger mess of a simple goal kick. Now I know RM likes to see the ball played out from the back but that doesn't mean every single time. Now and again circumstances will dictate that the ball has to be hit long. This was one of those occasions.

Howard could see that Osman had a Sunderland player standing a few feet from him and the most Osman could have done even if he had controlled the pass was knock it back to him in which case he would have cleared the ball up the pitch. Exactly what he should have done the the first place.

During the Swansea game Barkley was put clean through for what should have been a certain goal. But he was in such a hurry he fell over his own feet and the chance was lost. Now nobody is saying that Barkley is the worst player we have ever had and he must never play for Everton ever again.

Even the best players can miss-control a moving ball but all Howard has to do was kick a stationary ball up the pitch and away from his goal and all this would have been avoided. He patently failed to do this so the responsibility for the penalty and the goal and his own subsequent sending off lies fairly and squarely with him.

Mike Gwyer
260 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:26:36

This Osman bashing is a bit like hitting yourself with a sharp stick - fucking sore. What does grate me with our limited squad rotation, is the thought that Osman & Barkley play in the same position - well sort of, and therefore they can do the same thing, well sort of NO fucking chance. Fuck me, Osman has trouble running out onto the fucking pitch and as for picking up the ball and running at goal - Osman will just tell you to fuckoff. If Barkley is unavailable and Osman is selected, then our whole game plan goes out of the window because we revert to attacking down the channels, with almost zero central penetration. Osman's position? Fucks knows, but it is not an attacking midfielder.

Nick Entwistle
262 Posted 27/12/2013 at 15:52:59
Maybe Ossie is like Paul Scholes, only really appreciated on the continent.
Steavey Buckley
267 Posted 27/12/2013 at 16:11:52
Both Osman and Howard are to blame for the 2 bad passes. But if I remember last season, Osman and Phil Neville were always involved in losing possession in critical parts of the field. Osman should always play further up the field as he is likely to be knocked off the ball like yesterday into forcing a bad back pass to Howard.
Ray Roche
272 Posted 27/12/2013 at 16:32:33
Christopher Kelly, on another thread you said "I've been playing soccer for 25 years and I don't recall a player tripping on the ball like that. "

My response was "So, Chris, you didn't see Barkley fall over his own feet at Swansea when clean through?" Typically, you didn't respond but you carry on slagging Osman off with the "tiny, little Leon" jibes.... tell me, why do you think you know better than Martinez? After all, he picked him and has gone on record in the past praising "tiny, little Leon" and also justifying his selection to the full England squad. Yet you know so much better than Martinez....I wonder why your name wasn't in the frame when Moyes went. Dead easy, this managing game isn't it? Especially after the match has finished.

Incidentally, I didn't hear a "man on" shout when Howard gave him the ball, that might have helped.

Brent Stephens
275 Posted 27/12/2013 at 16:51:39
Steavey #267 "Osman should always play further up the field as he is likely to be knocked off the ball like yesterday"

He wasn't knocked of the ball in that penalty incident, was he?

Ian Tunstead
277 Posted 27/12/2013 at 16:46:32
I cant understand why Martinez continue to give Osman the time of day. And now Martinez seems to be ruining Lukaku... why can't any of our strikers play well for more than half a season? Its like history repeating itself again.
Christopher Kelly
282 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:00:04
Ray, I don't believe Osman to be totally at fault. About 80%. I am glad the tide has turned bc it used to only be a few of us that didn't get why Osman is playing, now it's at least 3 out of 4.

I don't believe he should've been played the ball but he was running toward TH and expecting the ball so surprise can't be an excuse. It's at those moments on defense when you need to be the most focused bc there is the most to lose. People trip over the ball on offense all the time bc they're trying to do something with it. You can't compare the two incidents bc it's not apples to apples. His foot should've been opened up and and side footed gently back to Howard to play out. Or, he should've touched the ball wide and cleared into the stands or played Jags.

Ray, I wish you were there to support Osman as I had about 5 of my mates rolling on the floor laughing at him and the fact that I've been bemoaning this jokester for so many years yet he keeps getting playing time. I wasn't even that miffed/surprised to be honest. I've just seen it so many times thru the years and yet I'm helpless to do anything about it because we don't have better players. It's the sad reality that 3 points dropped here will most likely come to roost towards the end of the season.

Ian Tunstead
284 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:13:04
It's partially Osman's and Howard's fault but it's mostly Martinez's fault for

a) Picking Osman in the first place; and

b) For giving Howard the instruction to be playing it out from the back rather than whacking it straight up to Lukaku.

Christopher Kelly
285 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:12:06
And Steavey,

It seems the same people that wanted to keep Moyes for so long past his sell by, also protect the Osman's, Neville's and Hibbert's of this world. At this point it's just a line and you're either on one side or the other. Either you have ambitions to find and play the best players we can/develop - or you're satisfied being the also-rans "best of the rest." - Look what happens when we lose the old school manager? Look what happens when we finally play the young fullback and attacking mid? All of us on the correct side of this line have been proven right and deserve at least a modicum of recognition IMO.

Andy Walker
292 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:21:03
What did Howard expect to achieve by passing to a tightly marked Osman?
Andrew Clare
293 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:25:55
I remember us losing to Stoke 0-1 at Goodison in September ’66. We absolutely battered them for the whole game to no avail. Ball, Harvey, Young etc just couldn’t score. These games happen from time to time and shouldn’t be worried about.
Ray Roche
296 Posted 27/12/2013 at 17:40:48
Christopher Kelly @282,

Chris, have you not considered that, by moving towards Howard, and as we know Ki followed him, that will create space behind Osman for Barry, McCarthy whoever, to exploit? It's easy to say that Osman should have side footed it back to Howard who would then have done what? What he could have done in the first place i.e. clear the ball downfield. If there is someone THAT close to Osman, and Osman is as poor as you say, with none of the team having any confidence in him, why on earth give him the ball when he's marked? Howard, in my opinion, should shoulder the lions share of the blame. Osman was guilty of failing to control the ball and , as I say, a shout of "man on" might have helped. I just think it's sad that fellow Evertonians can think of nothing other than slagging our own off all the time.
As for the comment about people wanting to keep Moyes...things have worked out fine. If we had binned Moyes 2 years ago we wouldn't have Martinez now.

Andrew Clare, I well remember that match! The feeling of injustice at not winning was palpable.

Brent Stephens
299 Posted 27/12/2013 at 18:09:16
Ray #296 "Chris, have you not considered that, by moving towards Howard, and as we know Ki followed him, that will create space behind Osman for Barry, McCarthy whoever, to exploit?"

Exactly. Your point about creating space is spot on. Several players make themselves as available as they can to receive the next pass, to give us options. But it doesn't mean that they all remain unmarked - and it's for the man with the ball to judge who is not marked.

Christopher Kelly
302 Posted 27/12/2013 at 18:07:26
There are games that this happens. We all know this. It happens a lot esp. if you have a couple of out of form strikers / some injured and it's cold etc.

There is no way on God's Green Earth that Howard should shoulder the blame for that pass. Why? Bc that's how we play now. I agree it was a dumb pass (Many of us on here have said for years that Howard can't play with his feet/ his clearances are woeful and a bit frightening considering that's what he does all day everyday). Regardless, asking an "International" player to not only fail to control a side footed pass, then stumble and fall over to not provide defense is not only embarrassing in his lack of balance, quality etc. but even more so on his lack of focus at a crucial time in the match. At his juncture of his career, things like this are unacceptable. How are any of the young players going to look up to such a fool? What's he going to teach them?? Focus?? I think not. It must be like watching your Dad stumble on a stair. Funny for a second then kind of sad when it all sets in. Then as in seasons prior, you get pissed bc you can do a better job.

My point also is not about getting RM 2 years ago, it's about the lack of foresight, character and ambition that many on here display. It's as if that old piece of shit suit in the closet is still ok because it's still wearable. Guess what, you or I would still look like an idiot wearing it because it's faded and tattered and we're trying to pass it off as if it's ok. What do you think our opponents think when they see Osman starting instead of Barkley??? Thank Fucking God they must say. One guy can hurt us, and one guy can't.

Christopher Kelly
306 Posted 27/12/2013 at 18:21:30
And just to set the record totally straight:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/leon-osman/mwverlaufgraph/spieler_3620.html

Osman's transfer valuation is a whopping £3.5m ( down from £7m a few years ago) - now I know this isn't a science but I don't really want a central mid (especially after we bought one for £13) that's valued that low. That speaks volumes that a neutral site thinks he's worth about 60% of what Anichebe is worth. After this game we'd be lucky to get £2.5

Brent Stephens
314 Posted 27/12/2013 at 18:50:14
Christopher, talk about rolling about laughing. "There are games that this happens. We all know this. It happens a lot esp. if you have a couple of out of form strikers / some injured and it's cold etc.
There is no way on God's Green Earth that Howard should shoulder the blame for that pass. Why? Bc that's how we play now. I agree it was a dumb pass"

You're so inconsistent it's hilarious! "There are games that this happens". Exactly! That's one point that's being made.

" It happens a lot esp. if you have a couple of out of form strikers / some injured and it's cold etc."

WTF has that got to do with the goal, which is what we've been discussing?

This last one (I'll stop here) is a cracker:
"There is no way on God's Green Earth that Howard should shoulder the blame for that pass. Why? Bc that's how we play now. I agree it was a dumb pass"

!!!! No blame. But he's dumb!!! FFS, Christopher, think it through before you post.

Mike Allison
315 Posted 27/12/2013 at 18:59:32
Christopher that transfer value will be mostly down to his age. Your reasoning is ridiculous, we're not playing Championship manager.
Christopher Kelly
323 Posted 27/12/2013 at 19:29:52
No were playing real footy with real games and real money and careers on the line. stepping on the ball and losing 3 points to the worst team in the league will get your value down to where it is with Leon. There's a reason no ones been in for him for 10 years. Just saying

Andy Walker
327 Posted 27/12/2013 at 19:38:47
Christopher, as of say it was a 'dumb pass'. Dumb in the extreme as he chose that particular option when he was under no pressure.
Every player has the potential to miscontrol a football, Howard created a situation for Sunderland where if Osman miscontrolled the ball we were in deep shit and that would apply to whoever he passed the ball to as every player has it in them to miscontrol a football. I watched Ronaldo earlier this season let the ball pass straight under his foot to go out for a throw in after a simple, gentle pass along the ground from a team mate. It can happen to anyone and Howard chose to create the jeopardy. Osman did not deliberately fail to control the ball, but Howard did deliberately pass the ball to him knowing that there was no benefit to be gained by doing so. As you say that's dumb.
Christopher Kelly
329 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:19:20
Yet again It was not Howard's finest moment. you will not find an argument from me. but what did Ronaldo's cock up result in? A throw in. What did Coleman's? A goal kick. Barkely's a goal kick I think. That's the difference. Who the fuck trips and falls down???? It would've been better if it went under his foot. At least he could've defended the miscue and we probably wouldn't be talking about it so much. But instead he fell like a baffoon, and ki went in 1 on 1 and the red card ensued.

Im sorry but You CAN'T fuck up like that near the 18. You just can't. Not when the team morale is high, goals are coming and the mood is merry. And not when youve done that same sort of thing your entire career. Its not his fault hes been played but thats gotta be one of the bloopers of the season (kompany's OG is close)That one play turned the tide and it turned into "one of those days". It's not like ossie has never received a pass with someone on his back. He should've done what he's done 1000's of other times. Play it back. I wish ossie had that Balotelli shirt on "why always me?" He at least could've gotten some laughs instead of being yanked off straight away with those misty eyes.

Christopher Kelly
335 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:33:03
Brent what are you on about? If you read before you'd see, Howard should definitely take some blame but not shoulder it. There's a difference, mate. How can he expect a player to trip over his feet like a 10-year-old??

It turned into one of those days because we couldn't score and got unlucky on some of those chances (Jela, Ross etc.). If we had 11 we probably would've won right?

I assume you're part of the Keep Moyes, Osman, Hibbert camp if you so steadfastly defend that play and are okay with it?? I hope you aren't in coaching!

Brent Stephens
336 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:39:51
Christopher — "Yet again It was not Howard's finest moment. You will not find an argument from me. But what did Ronaldo's cock up result in? A throw in."

Exactly. The pass to Ronaldo was probably without risk (I didn't see it) — it couldn't conceivably have resulted in a goal (I assume). The pass to Osman was totally full of risk. There's the difference.

Brent Stephens
337 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:43:16
Christopher — "How can he expect a player to trip over his feet like a 10-year-old??"

It can happen to anybody. Do you not see that, mate?

And no, I'm deffo not in the Moyes camp. So wrong assumption again. You're thinking is all over the place, lad.

Roman Sidey
339 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:11:50
Chris's paragraph on focus is very true though. People always bang on about experience being important and they're right. When you can't run very fast due to age, you can't shoot a bullet, and can't take a challenge without getting knocked off the ball, your experience really needs to shine through. Osman's cock-up yesterday is not the sort of mistake you should expect from a 32-year-old in a match that is setting him a record for matches played.

Those comparing his treatment on here to the leniency afforded to Barkley are copping out and not acknowledging that they are in the team for polar opposite reasons.

Si Cooper
340 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:23:07
Andy Walker, I would suggest you watch Barcelona and see how often they pass to a man who has someone a lot closer than Ki was to Osman. What often happens is that the ball is returned from whence it came. This will happen multiple times in most games.

Howard had just placed the ball and started to back-off for a run up when his attention was drawn to Osman (I can only presume he had a shout) and he had very little time to assess the situation. He may not have even noticed Ki was alert and a few yards (not feet) behind.

The way Ossie stumbled was reminiscent of someone caught in two minds (turn sharply as soon as the ball arrives or play it back) who ends up doing neither. It looked to me like he knew full well that he didn't have time to control the ball and then turn, but he has been in those situations many times before and is expected to handle them.

Howard's option selection may have been unnecessary / pointless (dumb?) but the pass was fine so did not directly lead to the miscontrol. Nor was Ossie actually being challenged when the ball got to him, so the miscontrol was akin to a striker missing a sitter and they take the responsibility for them.

Very easy to criticise the manager for his team selection after the loss. However, I am sure if Barkley had started and we had won fairly easily but he had picked up a booking, and we subsequently lost against Southampton in his absence then there would be people on here saying how we could have won against Sunderland without risking Barkley. The starting XI yesterday was definitely capable of winning that game and most likely would have done but for what is typically a very rare sequence of events.

Christopher Kelly
345 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:52:58
No, Brent, I don't see that. He had a ball played to feet! It wasn't to space or he wasn't trying to beat a man. It was played to his bloody feet. I don't see how you're so quick to give a pass to Osman just because a player was "near" Osman.

Brent, you too should watch Barca (the team out coach is being linked with; rightly or wrongly) or any other decent possession team. Most of the received passes have a marker within 5 yards or even 2 or 3. He is a pro and I have never seen a player stumble over a ball when played to feet. Not professionally or in an amateur team.

Brent Stephens
347 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:01:14
Christopher. All humans make mistakes. Osman is (almost) human. So Osman makes mistakes.

You have never seen a player stumble?! You've never played and stumbled yourself? Come on, Chris. We ALL can make a mistake. Don't be so bloody obtuse.

Andy Walker
348 Posted 27/12/2013 at 20:52:09
Brent 336 spot on mate. There was nothing to be gained by Howard's pass, it was completely unnecessary.

Players obviously do not decide when and where they are going to make mistakes. I like every other fan watch Barcelona and they are brilliant most of the time but there players do still make the odd howler, it's the decision making that's the key, ie they don't deliberately create situations where a single bad mistake could instantly create a goal scoring opportunity for the opposition. Knocking the ball around in advanced areas with the objective of creating goal scoring chances knowing that if it breaks down the worst is the ball is given to the opposition in non-threatening position is clearly an acceptable risk to take.

Howard created risk for no possible gain.

Christopher Kelly
349 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:10:15
I've never in all my years playing and watching have seen a player stumble on the ball played to feet. The problem as listed above is that he stepped on it instead of knowing his surroundings and one-timing it back. (We can debate Howard's culpability all we want but he should've known his surroundings.)

I really wouldn't be so critical if it weren't Osman. "It's always him".

Christopher Kelly
351 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:17:30
And just for the record I do cheer as loudly when he scores as anyone else. I guess I just wish he was a player we'd have left in the rear view Mirror w Moyes and Neville. The blame will ultimately lie with me wrong as we should have more adequate cover in my eyes
Christopher Kelly
352 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:23:09
Haha! Pardon the typo "me wrong" was meant to say kenwrong!! Lol possibly a Freudian mobile typo.

Mat Fearon
354 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:19:01
Christopher, you really are talking nonsense. So, in all the years you have been watching you have never seen a player stumble. What on earth are you on about? And its always him is it? What else has he done, apart from being a very consistent performer over the years.

We need to realise that we have a small squad and we are going to need Osman this year, plus his style of play fits with the new approach. He is clearly behind Barkley, but still has a lot to offer (goal vs Fulham etc).

Plus, why on earth did Howard get himself sent off? His "crime", if you are looking at it that way, was at least equal to Osman. I also remember people on this site saying Distin should never play again after his backpass; yet a few years on his is still at the top of his game.

Brent Stephens
355 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:25:06
Haha, Chris! Nice one! (hope you don't mind if I say that was just a small stumble there).

I'm sure you cheer as loud as the rest of us if he scores. All blues together.

Let's do Southampton now, mate!

Dennis Ng
356 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:24:40
Si, spot on about the RB choice. Team selection is never perfect. It's always a "a genius when it works, a disaster when it doesn't" situation.
Dennis Ng
357 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:28:59
On the stumble. I wouldn't call that THE STUMBLE. That belongs to Shearer.
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
359 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:37:35
When a poster stumbles over his own typing, boasting about how a player cannot possibly stumble, I think it's probably time to pull the plug — or put down the mobile phone.

"I've never in all my years playing and watching have seen a player stumble on the ball played to feet." — You've finally crossed the line with that nonsense, Chris.

Thank you, and Goodnight.

Christopher Kelly
360 Posted 27/12/2013 at 21:41:14
Absolutely! Up the blues!! Let's get Southampton. Thanks MK and Brent.
Michael Wylie
365 Posted 27/12/2013 at 22:13:07
Post 359. Funniest post I've seen in a long time Michael :-)
Tony Draper
372 Posted 27/12/2013 at 22:42:32
Mistakes were made:

Goal scoring opportunities were not taken by Sunderland
Goal scoring opportunities were not taken by Everton
A very fair call for a second penalty against us was not given
A very fair call for a penalty for us was not given

So, on another day, then things might have been different?

Or we have never lost/gained a decision/booking/goal/result before in our long long illustrious history?

We are EVERTONIANS !
Born

Ray Roche
373 Posted 27/12/2013 at 22:39:30
Here is the incident on YouTube, Howard goes to take a goal kick, then hesitates before passing it short to Osman. Ki is clearly just a couple of yards from Osman but running at pace, Osman fails to connect with his return pass to Howard. Ki is already level with Osman and Howard tackles as he runs forward.

Youtube, Everton v Sunderland
brahms2287
1 day ago

Tom Bowers
390 Posted 28/12/2013 at 00:13:10
Fate is fate and one can't change it.
This was going to happen sooner or later and after the first 15 minutes I sensed all was not right with the team.

Sunderland's only hope of winning this game was by what happened. They are the bottom club, were without their 2 centre backs and it looked a formality but Everton were suckered so we have to move on and focus on Sunday.

Now without Barry, the midfield could be in trouble unless there is a big improvement from the kick off.

Naismith should start instead of Osman and of course Barkley instead of Barry. Soton are still a tough side and will screw us if the focus isn't right.

Mick Davies
394 Posted 28/12/2013 at 02:18:30
At the risk of trying to choreograph plankton, I'm going to state the glaringly obvious to those who for whatever reason, think that because a player has been with a club so long, he must be magnificent.

Osman is not good enough for a club that wants to compete at the highest level. His pathetic PASS to set up Ki was just the last straw in the monumental index of shite passages of play we've endured over the last decade. If he was young and inexperienced, I would give him some leeway but although he had only started a few games recently, he has been consistently the worst liability in our squad.

He has lost possession in dangerous positions more than anyone, has wasted numerous chances by firing wildly from distance or impossible angles than others and the icing on the cake was jumping into the back of Jags while he was jumping to head a clearance that almost led to a goal. Then this game-changing fuck up.

Howard's only blame must be that he should have gone with his arms, but as he'd been panicked only minutes before and had to clear a weak Jags header on the edge of the box, he must have freaked when he saw Osman tap the ball into the path of Ki. I've recorded MOTD and paused and slowed it and I can't find an explanation for Osman knocking the ball 2 yards in front of him into the striker's path. He receives the ball with Ki 3 or 4 yards behind him.

If anyone disputes this and says Ki was right on his shoulder, then Osman should have felt him coming at speed on his right, then taken the ball – without any problem – to his left and into safe territory. Osman must have had a panic attack and if he isn't able to do the basics ANYWHERE on the pitch, he shouldn't be in the side.

We now have a group of players, for the first time in the PL, who are above average in ability: the likes of Coleman, Oviedo, Baines, Barry, McCarthy, Mirallas, Pienaar, Lukaku etc who are helping to restore this mighty club to its proper place at the top of English football. The last thing they need is being let down by others of dubious quality. That's the reason we lose our best players to the more successful clubs.

If EFC have ambitions above the level of the last 25 years, then weak, indecisive individuals need to be culled, without sentiment. And before all the "but RM says he's a respected member of our squad" et al, remember, he's only been here 6 months, has a limited group to work with and is not the type to openly criticise anyone. Actions speak louder than words and by pulling him off right away, showed how angry he must have felt about the player.

I don't know Osman personally and don't care about the personality of any of our club's employees, so I only judge them on the value to our club, and if the treatment by others of Neville, Cahill, McFadden, AJ etc are anything to go by, so do all of us.

I rest my case

Andy Walker
406 Posted 28/12/2013 at 07:09:17
Mick no one on this thread has stated, implied or even hinted that as Osman has been at the club so long he must be magnificent. You have made that up presumably so you can get your own agenda on the table ie you don't rate Osman.

As for your assertion that because he was subbed right away this in some way proves RM was angry with him, er, we had to make a sub to bring on another keeper, that was the point of the substitution, not to show the world how angry RM was with Osman.

Having written 7 paras clearly dedicated to your own agenda, you then attempt to create some sense of your own objectiveness with your final para about this nor being personal. You are an open book mate!

Ray Roche
420 Posted 28/12/2013 at 09:12:50
Mick Davies @ 394


"He receives the ball with Ki 3 or 4 yards behind him" Maybe, but Ki was running at pace so that left Osman with, what? Less than half a second to react?

"If anyone disputes this and says Ki was right on his shoulder, then Osman should have felt him coming at speed on his right, then taken the ball – without any problem – to his left and into safe territory. " You do talk some bollocks, Mike. I'm not here just to defend Osman, who has, over the past 10 years or so, been a great servant and very good player for us, but to see some semblance of fair play. The initial fault is with Howard, no one else. What if Osman was coming short to make space in the midfield by bringing Ki with him, but not wanting a pass? I don't see Osman calling or indicating that he WANTS the ball, just Howard passing (short) to him. Why not a "Man on" shout from Howard?
"Howard's only blame must be that he should have gone with his arms" Well, I've just watched a rerun and Howard appears to be taking a goal kick. Not sure how he could have used his arms.

Gavin McGarvey
438 Posted 28/12/2013 at 09:44:28
I missed this match due to family stuff, and I’m almost glad reading some of the comments on here. I’m backing Martinez and his team to turn things round against The Saints, and make my Southampton friends miserable, and bring Xmas cheers to my Pompey friends. I don’t think there’s too much to be learned from the Sunderland game: don’t get sent off? I know that’s a bit presumptuous but from what I’ve read it really does sound like one of those days. Obviously it would be nice to have the strikers to rotate more, but at least Deulofeu will be back soon. I’m expecting a real response against Southampton, and I think that’s exactly what we’ll get.
Jamie Barlow
444 Posted 28/12/2013 at 10:52:03
It's pointless arguing with Mick about "Little Hooligan Leon". He just doesn't like the lad. It's got nothing to do with football. The slightest thing he can blame on Ossie, he will do.

Iain Johnston
451 Posted 28/12/2013 at 11:48:28
Mick, arguably, Mirallas hasn't done thing this season and Lukaku has faded noticeably. As for Osman shooting wildly, well there have been a few culprits there..

Ok, I agree, he fucked up but to blame him solely for most of our posessional issues this season is a bit unfair.

We could start another thread pointing out where players have been caught out whether it be possession or position, there are times for instance when our fullbacks are woefully exposed, It's the price we are paying for a more attacking focus and at times we will be caught by it.

We've had years of players bypassing midfield with long balls and a focus on containment rather than passing and patient build up. Lets give the squad and individual players longer than FOUR MONTHS during the transition.

Maybe Howard using his hands would have also given Sunderland the lead but may have resulted in keeping eleven on the pitch. The way we responded, we'd all be applauding another fine win.

For me, there have only been 3 or 4 players who have shown true consistency this season so far.

Mick Davies
584 Posted 28/12/2013 at 18:25:24
Ray Roche, you obviously skipped a lot of school time so I won't even reply to your ignorance. You love Osman more than Everton - grade one jellyhead.
Mick Davies
592 Posted 28/12/2013 at 18:29:01
Jamie Barlow, your attempts at humour are as funny as haemorrhoids and if you read my post, I try to put the point across that I don't know the lad personally. He's played in a mediocre side for over ten years so has managed to wing it. This season more than ever he's been found out. If you love Everton as much as I do, you'd only want what was best. That's why I was full of praise for Martinez while others on here were predicting relegation; the same people have called for Fellaini in, Fellaini out, BK in, out, Jags, Baines, Neville etc. I have been consistent in my criticism of Moyes, Hibbert and Osman. If somebody isn't good enough for the club, it doesn't matter if he's the nicest guy on earth, I don't want him here. The reason our club has been held back is precisely because of the misty eyed sentiment a minority hold for clapped out players who they assume deserve 2nd, 3rd, 4th and more chances. The ruthlessness shown by Ferguson and others towards dead wood has been in marked contrast to Everton's. Stam, Chadwick, Veron and more get the elbow while Osman gets constantly forgiven, and if you persist with the assumption that this is because of the Sunderland rick, check my comments over the years and see how consistent I've been - unlike others on TW
Carl Sanderson
598 Posted 28/12/2013 at 19:00:26
Mick,

Osman has been winging it for ten years?

Fifty-odd goals in a 300-game top-flight career certainly puts him in the Tiger McLaughlin class, doesn't it?

Jamie Barlow
601 Posted 28/12/2013 at 18:58:04
Mick, there was no humour intended. You set the record straight with your rant the other day. You just don't like the lad. He's a hooligan in your eyes because he likes to have a laugh. Interrupting poor Ross's interview wasn't it. Naughty boy.

I understand you don't like him. Fair enough, that's your right to do so. You really shouldn't try and justify it by making things up like "He has lost possession in dangerous positions more than anyone and has wasted numerous chances by firing wildly from distance or impossible angles than others." It's total bollocks. You've no idea if that's true or not. Those two examples could just as easily go to Mirallas and Barkley. If I'm wrong and you can show me otherwise, I apologise and I'll admit I'm wrong.

You can see how much you dislike the lad by desperately clinging onto his jump into Jagielka. You must have mentioned it about 20 times now. As if Osman is the only Everton player to jump for a header with another Everton player. It's pretty sad really.

Also I don't think I've ever read anyone on here say Osman is "Magnificent". Just another one of your massive over reactions.

Brent Stephens
608 Posted 28/12/2013 at 19:26:54
Mick #592 " He's played in a mediocre side for over ten years so has managed to wing it. This season more than ever he's been found out. If you love Everton as much as I do, you'd only want what was best. That's why I was full of praise for Martinez"

Mick, a few questions.

Why does playing in a mediocre side mean that you can wing it? (by that I assume you mean you can get away with not being very good?).

Is this still a mediocre side that Osman has been playing in?

Why has he now been found out?

Being full of praise for Martinez, do you agree with him selecting Osman?

Iain Johnston
702 Posted 29/12/2013 at 00:22:12
Mick, Ferguson had millions to spend. He could only find two decent keepers though. Are you saying Howard is Man Utd dead wood, ruthlessly moved on because he is mediocre?.

Pienaar got in the way of Oviedo at Swansea hence the deflected equaliser. Barry conceded a pen against Fulham allowing them into the game or how about poor defending at Norwich allowing the world beater Wolfswinkel to score These are equally serious game changing incidents..

Could it be okay because we didn't lose maybe?

What will the reaction be to Osman playing tomorrow and scoring. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility.

Brian Waring
703 Posted 29/12/2013 at 00:39:21
Ian (#284) yes, let's just twat it up front to Lukaku, and then watch him run around like a chicken with no head towards the corner flag, you know... like Beattie and Andy Johnson!
Ray Roche
765 Posted 29/12/2013 at 11:00:07
Mick Davies @ 584

No, soft lad, I didn't miss any school, I can just see what happens on the field , as opposed to a thick as mince dick like you. And as usual, with the likes of you, when you DO crawl out from under your stone, you have neither the wit nor intelligence to argue a point, instead, you blather on about your intellectual equal, plankton.

Have you found Osman banging your missus or something?

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