Whatever happens tonight we are building a team for the future.

An article in the Independent stated that Everton need to get into the top 4 now or we won't as Liverpool will soon have an increased ground capacity.

I don't swallow that as Martinez has stated in The Guardian that although Everton do not have the income of the richer clubs there are other ways round this.

I don't ever remember Everton going for the loans as they have since he came in. I am positive whatever happens tonight...

COYB!!!!!!!!

Plan A for me would be take the possession all day and let Barkley and Mirallas make the chances. Everyone else be sensible.

Elsewhere Jelavic starts with Shane Long for Hull. Lot of people spoke before w sold him that we should have played 2 up top, with a partner for Jelly, and a lot of people liked Shane Long. I've got my eyes on that to see what happens.

It is so refreshing to have a positive manager

COYBS! !!!!!!!!

Its arguably our first choice midfield out there, at least the midfield we started the first two months of the season relying on.

The bench is weakish but we have McGeady to come on if we need someone to inject a bit of pace and maybe Naismith to win a few high balls if we are chasing the game in the latter stages.

The back four is the big worry, how Stones reacts at right back will be intriguing and also how will Alcaraz handle the heat against arguably the second best strike force in England.

Please though Everton don't start giving them two goals in the first 20 minutes again , something which has become a bad habit against the shite over the last few seasons. We cant afford to keep chasing the game.

Big games needed by Pieanaar, Lukaku and Mirallas tonight.

Infact fucking big games needed by everyone.

Shittin myself....

our bench is okay theirs is full of guys who have never played more than a couple of games but ultimately we have to stop Ratboy and Gerrard. If Ross is on form then we could just do it.

Very nervous about this all day and about to lose WiFi on the train — come on, boys!!!!

With Barkley and Pienaar we have a very decent chance and Hibbert can help the defence out by tackling Suarez hard.

Gerrard with a header from a corner? how many times has that happened??

Yet again we dissappear under the white hot atmosphere of the Kop.

SHITHOUSES

YET AGAIN SPINELESS DISPLAYS FROM OUR USUAL CULPRITS PIENAAR...JAGIELKA..BAINES.

FUCKING YEAR IN YEAR OUT.

THATS THE FIRST CHOICE MIDFIELD THERE ON THE PITCH YET WHERE ARE THEY???

NO FIGHT NO DESIRE..WHY DO LIVERPOOL ALWAYS WANT THE DERBY MORE THAN US??? WHY DO THEY CLOSE US DOWN YET WE NEVER GET NEAR THEM??

EVER FUCKING YEAR YOU SHITEHOUSE BASTARDS.

MR KENWRIGHT SAVE OUR SEASON NOW AND FORCE MARTINEZ TO SIGN SOME BASTARD QUALITY PLAYERS.

It'll be a fucking miracle if we get anything from here.

LIVERPOOL IS A PROUD CLUB THAT KNOWS WHAT A DERBY MEANS TO THE FANS..OUR PLAYERS ARE THE SAME SPINELESS CUNTS YEAR IN YEAR OUT..

JAGIELKA AND BAINES ENGLAND INTERNATIONALS MY FUCKIN ARSE?? SELL THE PAIR OF THEM NOW FOR ALL I CARE

THIS WILL BE 6-0

The club is now on its knees with another player missing in Lukaku, not that it wouldn't still be 3-0 because lets be honest these cunts have shown no fight or want at all, every year Liverpool totally put us to shame.

One thing that could never be said of Joe Royle's teams is that they didn't battle.. Whether Barkley is fit or not there is no disputing that if he wants to be a local hero he should look no further than Gerrard, I hate the cunt but fucking hell I wish we had somebody with the same love and desire for our club that he has for them.

ps: What was that somebody said last season about Sturridge being no better than Anichebe?

UTTER DISGRACE TO THE BLUE SHIRT THAT .

At least Nick Entwistle is finally happy.

No heart – another two!!!!!!

No bottle – another two!!!!!

It’s bad enough getting slaughtered by this shite but when it is on channel Liverpool and it is being compered by an ex-Evertonian (McManaman) and that great Everton star Ginola that makes it worse. Glad I’m off work tomorrow as I can remember the 5-0 and the shit I took then was bad enough!!!!!!

Utterly pathetic — carrying on from last Monday. Good job we are only playing the shite. Man City would have had 6 by now.

Kenwright, Earl, Woods... fuck off .

We don't seem to know how to break, to much back passing and slowing it down at the wrong times to slow it down.

Stones is not experienced enough for a game like this.

So many lost passes, and surrendering to pressure.

We have been in this position before and we just have to suck it up a forget it.and get behind the team in the next game. Everton have been lucky over the last number of league games and we had better come down from cuckoo land and encourage the team to get as high as possible. Regardless what the feelings on loan players are what is happening is money talks.

Remind them how much they have let everyone associated with the club down and how much we feel almost physical pain from such a mauling by the RS. We don 't expect Brazil 1970 but we are entitled to 100% effort at least. At the very least I expect them to come out spitting fire at the weekend. Too late tonight though.... :-(

I don't want to hear any excuses mate about who is injured and who isn't.

This is a fucking Merseyside derby, you fuckin well man up and get out there, fucking Gerrard is 34 but is dominating it because HE WANTS IT.

WHERE IS OUR PASSION AND OUR WANT??

Its the same thing at Anfield virtually every year at this place and their fans must be pissing themselves laughing because they know all we ever do is shit ourselves in the atmosphere and go to pieces.

Same thing year in year out.

THREE DERBY WINS IN 29 MATCHES..YOU WOULD THINK WE WERE FUCKIN TRANMERE

With you all the way. That luvvie cunt has bled our club dry. nvestment is now 20 years overdue and who has stopped it? Blue Bill .

I'm ashamed to be an Evertonian tonight.

Thanks, Bill.

Net Spend 13/13 -£16,500,000
12/13 -£1,816,000
11/12 -£12,500,000
10/11 -£1,700,000
9/10 -£2,800,000

JUST SHOWS HOW FAR BEHIND THESE WE REALLY ARE.

FORGET INJURIES DISTIN AND COLEMAN WOULDNT HAVE MADE MUCH DIFFERENCE HERE..

HOW BAD ARE WE?

MARTINEZ HAS MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR WORRIES HERE NOW.

HE HAS BEEN WELL AND TRULY FUCKED IN THE FACE TONIGHT

Doubt I'll ever live to see that day.

They really have made a fucking show of us tonight and more importantly a show of themselves.

The 11 players out there tonight will always be remembered as the team that got smashed to fuck by the Redshite, this could be any score they want it to be now... could be 8-0, and NO — YOU CANT BLAME INJURIES FOR THAT.

True to my prediction we have basically sat on the money, lauded what had been done for half a season and not strengthened the side but for a loan player who we will probably hardly ever see because like with the rest, he is crocked upon signing, and McGeady who must be so unfit that he cant even displace an unfit, basically past his best Pienaar.

Tonight has killed our top four chances anyway, so at least that stupid Cup or 4th debate can end now... We can tackle Villa on Saturday with Naismith up front and same shite that didn't turn up tonight whilst the Redshite will do to West Brom what they are doing to us and hit them for 5.

NOT HAPPY... BYE-BYE TO 4TH SPOT.

Bad mistakes for their goals and per usual when things start going wrong it snowballs. Now another injury for us caused by one of our players.

It is one of those nights and unfortunately it has come against the team us Evertonians despise the most.

We will come again no worries. Martinez will see to that.

Bill, you are a disgrace. You, are getting away with murder.

The only positives I can find from this game are that our play has been fairly good, bar the defensive lapses. We probably went into this a bit too gung ho, but if you don't take a risk you won't get rewards. At least the lads heads never dropped and we kept on playing, despite the horrific scoreline.

What to do next. Do we go for a few more players in to try and claw our way back into the CL race and risk getting in panic buy duds, or do we accept it is now unlikely to happen, aim to finish as high as possible and put our hope in the cup, saving our resources until the summer when we have a better chance of getting the right people in?

Considering the expectations at the start of the season (transition, building and comfortable league position) it isn't suddenly a bad season. To be honest most of us didn't expect to be challenging for the top four. The problem is that once that prospect has been put into our minds (especially when so many other teams were also in transition) failure to achieve it is a big disappointment. If we do miss out I'm going to take the positives from this season. Tonight though is not one of them!

What are we going to tear into Villa with? This is a Villa team packed with pace and thrives on playing away from home and put up a far better fight at Anfield than we have tonight.

We are going to have Naismith leading the line in a Premier League football match. We have had a decent season so far but as so often is the case with Everton rather than truly pushing on this month and making certain we signed some top drawer players we have sat on the cash.

I don't know how long its going to take McGeady to get match fit but he should have started tonight instead of Pienaar, another guy living off past exploits but is now dead as a force.

Traore we sign him, then are told that he may not make an impact until the last 9 games?? That's just got to be a joke surely?

We need players who are going to play here and now?

Wheres the interest gone in Tom Ince?? What about Canales??

We need a left back because Baines is just fuckin cruising through games now and Oviedo is crocked for months.

Distin is 37 nearly, Alcaraz is as fit as me gran, and Jagielka is and always has been massively over rated in my opinion, never any fucking good when he comes up against strikers that can move.

And we are talking about letting Heitinga go????

We can't fuckin afford to — it's as simple as that.

Regarding the latter, we all knew this results was going to happen sooner or later, fucking horrible it's against them admittedly. Rather a 4-0 loss amongst good wins and draws away to the big teams under Roberto than countless drab 1-0 losses under Moyes.

Everyone of them bar Mirallas should hold their head in shame including the manager. We always play the occasion, not the match when we go there. I thought Roberto would instill a bit of belief, but no. We bend over and take it up the tradesman's again.

Well, thank you very fucking much, you shower of fucking losers.

Bill, get the cheque book out!!

I agree with Gerry. This is where Roberto shows how good or otherwise he is. This one result could undo all the positives so far. That said, I remember him coming away from Spurs having lost 8-0 with Wigan and talking about the positives.

What scares our players so much about Anfield?
Is it standing in the tunnel listening to YNWA?
Is it the Kop?

What is it? I would just love to know so badly because they just never ever ever play their own games, no matter what form they are in going into the Anfield derby we can rest assured that all our so called big names become shrinking violets...

Even though you are getting outclassed you should still work hard to close men down and press your opponent but we never even do that right with any gusto, Liverpool always show us how its done.

Clinical finishing was the difference. It was like surgery without an anaesthetic. Not quite as bad as the Glen Keeley night but still a horrible night.

COYB

I'm as disappointed as you mate and wouldn't dispute any of your points. However, we can't just give in. Life will go on and we will have better nights. Think of it like a war. We have been beaten in an important battle, but we are not defeated. I think we are heading in the right direction, but tonight we were beaten by a more ruthless team who exploited our naivety.

In hindsight we should have been more cautious and tried to hit them on the break, rather than exposing our defence to their pacey counter attacking play. Martinez will learn from this experience and in the next battle we will be better.

Jagielka was an absolute shambles. Poorest display I've seen from two centre halves since Tough and Weir were being wheeled onto the pitch.

Our offensive displays this season have covered for Jagielka's shortcomings. And Alcaraz just compounded this.

Can't wait for work tomorrow.

Jagielka were an absolute shambles. Poorest display I've seen from two centre halves since Tough and Weir were being wheeled onto the pitch.

Our offensive displays this season have covered for Jags shortcomings. .. and Alcaraz just compounded this.

Can't wait for work tommorow.

We need to bounce back against Villa and get the season back on track. It's one game and we had a shocker.

It's that kind of decision-making that gave me the heebie-jeebies when Martinez was appointed in the summer.

I hope to Christ he learns from it.

My 2 cents ?...No Money = 8th.+.
Got it yet ???? This league is all about money.
More so now than it ever was...So sad.Sadly.

It's not an excuse but how unlucky can we be? No Distin, Coleman, Geri, a half-fit Alcaraz, Pienaar, Barkley, and then we lose Lukaku! Anything that could go wrong did, and for me that game wasn't a level playing field from the get go.

We need to learn from this. It showed me Stones isn't ready against top sides, ditto Alcaraz, and we are just too pedestrian in the final third and lack incisiveness. Lukaku being out to me might not be a bad thing, as I don't care what everyone else says he's been a passenger for the past 8 games. Get Lacina in, let's see if he's up to it.

There is still lots of football left this season, and I just hope that this game hasn't damaged morale, coz it believe the way we play will win more times than not. I love Martinez, but tonight, for the first time I think he was a bit too positive, and possibly a bit too naive.

Coyb

I've decide I'm not watching the derby any more. Sad isn't it.

The team are too honest against professional cheats like the shite.

Yes we were dreadful and 90% of the team need to give their wages to charity for that dreadful performance, but that referee was as shocking as we were.

City put 6 past Arsenal and Spurs and they bounced back.

I understand the posts saying that we get overawed when playing at Anfield, but perhaps a more cautious approach would have been wise. We were looking comfortable until the set piece goal and injury to Lukaku. After that we were too incautious and got caught trying to force an equalizer when perhaps we should have bided our time. The more we chased it the easier it was for them to hit us on the counter attack.

Still a lot of work for Martinez to do but I believe he can turn it around. Rodgers didn't have the best season last year but he has turned them around, lets hope our manager will do the same!

I obviously went to Wembley a couple of years ago and now I'll only watch Everton play them at Goodison – even if we play them in the Cup Final, I won't go – which would mean I won't see us play at Wembley for the first time since I started following the Blues.

Bill Kenwright, get your wallet out now. You won't because you know you have another season in the Premier League.

Its one thing having possession but its what you end up doing with it and since the turn of the year we have struggled for goals.

We looked dreadful at West Brom last week, were were ok against a poor Norwich side and we struggled for goals against Stoke needing a injury time pen to save our skins.

Its ok mentioning how well we have done but its past now.

At the current moment in time we are effectively at crisis level.
We have no end of injuries and if we keep believing that we must wait for Barkley, Del boy, McGeady, Traore to get match fit, just how long do we wait exactly??

We are not going to have anything at all to hurt Villa with.

We all are aware of the flack that is going to come on TW after another typical poor performance at Anfield. Before you begin to write, calm down have a drink and reflect on all the praise and accolades the manager and the players have received on here over the last couple of weeks that has been deserved.

If you are going to write, let's direct your anger to who is responsible. Over the last 5-6 years, Everton have been in a position that required financial help to push up to the next level but have always been let down by the Chairman and his band of yes-men.

People may have read that I am against the loan system and that is because I believe that BK is behind it as a cheaper way to bring in players but it is not a way to bring success.

Words can't describe how the true Evertonians feel after that display but the season is not over, so get behind the team and give them our full support and let the manager know we are behind what he is trying to achieve at the club, even if he has his hands tied behind his back.

The whole back 4 played as if they had been pulled out of the crowd 5 minutes before kick off, Barry had an absolute horror show, Barkley and Pienaar so unfit and off the pace and poor old Naismith upfront was lost.

I cannot believe we were so bad – fucking shocking.

One thing I have to say though is this: we must take in-swinging corners. Liverpool took one and scored from it. We had eight corners tonight and there was more chance of Liverpool scoring off one of them than us. We had one chance to put an in-swinger in and Mirallas played it short instead. It seems to be a deliberate policy, and I wonder what the theory is. Its clearly not one that other teams subscribe to. We have two good corner takers in Baines and Mirallas, but both use their skills to kick the ball away from the goal rather than towards. Over time we'd be so much more dangerous if every corner swung in. This is basic, school-boy level stuff that we're getting wrong.

Everything in football is up for debate and discussion, but I've never heard anyone argue in favour of out-swinging corners.

Naismith tries his heart out but is limited. Osman added absolutely nothing when he came on. Mirallas one of the few to emerge with any credit. No further proof required that our squad is threadbare. Need some new additions. Let's move on and bounce back from this.

We have some great prospects (Barkley, Coleman, McCarthy, Mirallas etc) and some seasoned proven performers (Baines, Jagielka, Barry) but we also have some that are definitely over the hill (Osman, Pienaar, Distin) or just not top quality Premier League players (Naismith, most of our reserves).

Season loans are not the answer... we need and deserve quality defensive and attacking additions (reckon midfield is okay) if we are to push on. Surely that is what the club wants.....yes Bill??

Whatever team we put out I expect at least total commitment. Our "dogs of war" squad may not have been pretty but Horne, Carsley etc would have shed blood for the club.....

May I make an observation? Who in their right mind would sign for us after that abject, gutless, shite performance?

Keep calm and carry on I reckon.

Still... it’s February next week and it’s only our 3rd defeat! I’m big enough and old enough to admit we were well beaten on the night, but we move on and we learn.

"No way are they superior to us"

They probably have one of the best strikers in the world right now and another one who knows how to put the ball in!

Until we get a striker or two who can get us 20 odd goals a season it will always be the same most of the time. Our problem is where do we get the money to buy them?

In truth, nothing but nothing will change and mark my words in a couple of days time someone will write into TW and say "Don't blame Bill, he's one of us!"

I still maintain we have a better balanced team than them when we have everyone fit. The gods yet again conspired against us to fuck us over, but I tell you one thing, I'm so glad I'm not one of them. They have sold their souls to the devil, and will literally do anything, including harboring a racist cheat, to stay on the coat tails of the top 4.

They will get theirs, the mutants.

But tonight's result has really upset me. It makes me so sad. :(

It still doesn't excuse this performance.

Unfortunately Rodgers out thought RM as they hit us on the break all night.

See the stats, we won everything except goals and attempts, unfortunately the important ones.

Onwards and upwards, roll on Saturday.

Where is the money, Bill?

Sell up and fuck off.

Call it what you want, we were fucking awful in the opposition half. They let us play out in our half, and tackled like Trojans in their last third. Game fucking won.

Every time we got within 20 yards of their box, we had two or three on our case. I am not going to blame any particular player, we applied ourselves, but there was no quality when it mattered. Half fit players and going for the win undone us.

If you want to go back to 10 men and defend for your lives - good luck.

City battered Utd at home, Arsenal have taken Spurs to the cleaners. Barca have taught Real many lessons. It happens when you go all out. If damage limitation is what some want. Okay - I can see that.

We were shite, but let's move on, and let's keep trying to win. That's why I pay fortunes to follow this club.

Another thing: footabll stats can be very deceiving: we had 61% possession, just imagine!

Like Steve Brown # 108 says, keep calm and carry on. This was just an aberration - albeit in the worst of places!

It was a derby, you get closed down quicker yet for some reason we wanted an age to get our shots on goal.

Make no mistake, we were shocking and in my opinion I really felt for Mirallas, he gave his all and ran his nuts off. Shame we didn't have another 10 on the pitch with the same heart and effort.

This was one of those games where Liverpool caught all of the breaks: Lukaku goes down with an injury, Coleman is out, Distin is out, it's pouring rain, Atkinson is the ref - these things unfortunately happen. Imagine the meltdown THEY had when they lost to us 3-0.

We had a bad game. Maybe RM could have deployed the team differently, maybe he could have played some different players. At least we were trying to go at them. Let's give Roberto the chance to recover from this and for me personally; I hope we beat Swansea in the FA Cup, and Liverpool beat Arsenal in the FA cup, and we get drawn together, cuz I would like us to have another shot at the bastards!

Players half fit and at 3-0 down still going forward as if it’s 0-0.

Thank god Liverpool took their foot of the gas or it could have been 7 or 8. We were so bad from back to front.

Saturday’s game against Villa is massive for our season and we will see what our manager is all about.

By the way, why are people blaming the owner!

Sorry this was down to the manager, did he know we were the away team and no Plan B.

Goodnight All.

Don't get me wrong — we were shite... but playing 12 when you have too many under-performing is a recipe for disaster.

Atkinson was as one sided as they come...

I genuinely thought tonight would be different, and we just weren't up for it... Liverpool were far better in every aspect of the game. A thrashing and well deserved.

We knew their attack is more than a match for anyone.

I'm RM's biggest fan but he was too gung ho in this game.

To be fair we played quite well till they scored their 1st goal – off a bloody corner again. Then we played into their hands perfectly, by pressing too far up the field after an equaliser, then when they got the 2nd, we chased the game again and so it went on!

We'd nobody in the middle after we lost Lukaku to offer a threat and put themselves about; it was plain sailing for them after that.

Everybody gave it 100%, we were out-thought and out-played in the end... there's always tomorrow.

Such is this curse that Liverpool often hold over Everton that just when Everton suffer a catastrophic series of injuries and are at their lowest point, who do we play? ... yes... them!

But you simply cannot ignore the fact that that the solidity of the back four was decimated by the absence of Coleman and Distin and a barely 90% fit Jagielka, with the added loss of Coleman's offensive threat. In the middle of the park, we had Pienaar and Barkley who have not played in weeks and then Lukaku gets carried off after 15 minutes to be replaced by... Naismith!

I must admit at this point that I have not been Pienaar's greatest admirer. Coming back from Spurs has given him an even greater over-inflated sense of security that his overall contributions simply do not merit. Osman gets slaughtered on here (sometimes with justification) but this guy's lack of goals, goal threat, direct goal assists etc never seems to arouse the same criticism.

It is why the dreadful injury to Oviedo is such a blow as he was proving to be a crucial member of this squad, whose pace, energy, directness and goal threat finally suggested that rather than being seen as an understudy to Baines (questionable now?) he was tailor made to replace the largely ineffectual Pienaar and add further bite to the middle of the team.

All of this then means that you are going to struggle against a Liverpool team containing the threat of one of the very top players in the world (odious though he may be) and a partner who although intensely irritating is a top goal scorer. It was just typical that, coming when the match did, Everton were in a dire situation - do we really think that with a fully fit first eleven with the added possibilities offered by a fit "Del boy", Everton would have sunk to a four goal defeat? (It could of course easily have been 6 or 7!)

Oliver (041) is quite right, it was "one of those nights" when there are other issues behind the scoreline. A real test for the manager and the squad is how do they now positively react to this – it may also be a test for the supporters.

I bet City had a better record in that period against United at Old Trafford pre the money-men arriving and Spurs have probably won more times at Arsenal. It's no wonder all the kids lean towards our neigbhours when we appear in these games to be such gutless losers at their place.

I can't feel better knowing we had 61% of the ball - in fact in some ways that makes it worse - we need to learn that football matches are won by scoring goals - that lot have always known it - but we as a club think that pretty football is the be all and end all - it isn't - it's a mixture of good play and scoring goals. Everton known for its famous centre-forwards and goalscrorers has forgotten that to get one who is any good you have to spend money - real money - not £5m here and £6m there - we need a proper striker and have done for years.

Alcaraz & Stones were shocking. Making basic errors. No communication. No marking. No closing down players or spaces. Jags looks to be struggling with injury, and Baines didn't show up.

We need Distin/Coleman back against Villa.

Although I hate that result, I thought we played attacking football and for a few misplaced and being a bit naive and them cunts having 10 defenders this could've been so different. Twats, I fucking hate them!!

We were comprehensively beaten but we were not steam-rollered. Suckered in to playing the game on their terms and then individual errors sprang the trap for them. Early on we looked happy to let them get within 25 yards and try their luck which odd, then after their first we went for a ridiculously high line with acres for them to run into. Something in between would probably have been better, but we seemed bamboozled by their tactics which will need some sort of enquiry at Finch Farm.

Don't know why Baines is getting a slating from some. McCarthy was conspicuous by his lack of impact in the first half (though he recovered his poise in the second) and Gareth Barry showed a fair amount of fallibility even if his effort was exemplary. Individual errors from Stones, Jagielka and Alcaraz gave them the opportunities which they took ruthlessly.

Upsides - there was no sulking or slacking and the players got it together for some decent play though it lacked an end product (a bit of luck and we could have converted a few chances).

The slippery greasy surface assisted with constant rain made it difficult for the Everton defence to deal with so many Liverpool forwards running on to through balls who were just outpacing them. The sad fact the Everton attack could not do to Liverpool's defence what their attack did to the Everton's defence.

The sad fact is, Everton are not the same team going forward as they have been in previous games, excluding Stevenage. I do believe Everton are still suffering a hangover from the West Brom game which ended in 1:1 that left a bad taste in every Evertonians mouth in the way the blues capitulated so easily to Brum in the second half.

Let us all hope that Martinez can put out a decent team to beat Aston Villa at home on Saturday with big striker in Traore hoping to make his Everton debut in place of the injured Lukaku, who was not playing particularly well recently when he got injured tonight. So can't be said he will be a big loss if he is not playing. But I hope Barkley is playing.

The manager didn't play his best game, some of the players should also learn from the defeat, but I think sometimes it's a series of events that just makes the situation go from bad to worse, ie, chasing the game.

They also highlight where we're lacking.

Desperately disappointed we played such a high line up the pitch and even more disappointed we continued to play it even when we were getting our behinds handed to us. The third (yes THIRD goal was directly attributable to this a la an old style Wimbledon punt. In all this, despite it apparently being a conspiratorial player decision to play this rather than a managerial instruction, I did not see our manager screaming from the technical area against this suicide when it was completely obvious to all and sundry, especially Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard who facilitated said lumps past said back line.

Also, it's Bye Bye Lukaku I'm afraid and since the guy is taking up a loan slot we have a big decision to make in the next couple of days, either to return him, free up the slot and loan someone else (is this possible?) or spend 10M+ on a striker as we have not a single one we can field at the club (I don't count Naismith here for obvious reasons and we seem left with Mirallas who is still primarily a winger).

Finally, Alcaraz should be locked up for that display (sorry!!)....

The guy is a Championship defender in my opinion who has flattered to deceive.

Blaming the chairman for naive defending is childish. If our fans blind hatred of the opposition results in fans throwing coins at Liverpool players, we should be ashamed.

Shouting and swearing about your own team's performance is pointless. We defended poorly and were punished, but continued to try to play football but were outplayed by a better side on the night.

There are 16 fixtures left to play and given RM's positive outlook we can still achieve a Champion's League finish. The result tonight hurts me just as much as every effer and blinder on here tonight.
We should just try to keep things in perspective, difficult though that appears to be.

RM clearly blames himself for picking unfit players but the squad is so thin. It was NEVER going to withstand an injury crisis. Yet the damage was done relatively early in this game and I'm not sure "fitness" cost us three aweful first half goals ? Nope, it was DIRE defending.

Ross didn't too at all badly but when so many behind you are playing so badly it's hard not to over compensate and try to do it all yourself and I thought he fell into that role at times tonight.

Mirallas realky did himself proud and I'm praying RM plays him as centre forward against Villa because he's up for it. Naismith, willing though he is, showed again tonight that he makes very little happen himself and we need more in that position.

I've heard the reasoning but all CL hopefuls have three or four forwards to call,on of some quality. So why let Yelavic go when despite poor form he still managed to look likely to convert chances if we give him the opportunity and I'm wondering why "being juice about his World Cup chances" has any place in PL football ?

I don't understand the Pienaar hating. He wasn't good tonight but still worked hard and it just didn't come off for him. He's not become aweful overnight but he and Baines just haven't connected as in last season. McGeady will likely start against Villa so it will interesting to see how that works out but unless Traore's hamstring is sorted he ain't going to have a rampaging no9 to hit with inch perfect crosses.

Alcaraz looked soooo good alongside Stones but he was ruthlessly exposed by pace tonight...worried others will see that and exploit it over the next few months.

Stones was not as bad as some are saying but I see him as a future centre back anyway and he will be very very good.

The huge issue now is a simple one. Will we slide and see a very encouraging season collapse ? We are relatively close to fourth spot but in truth unless a miracle happens and the club finds the money to support the manager as they should, right now, I really rear injuries will finish us off send its a battling seventh place. Hope like hell that isn't the case but I guess I'm just fed up of a lifetime being humiliated by the shite.

Barry - worst performance of season and showed why he won't go to Brazil
McCarthy - has to expend a lot of energy if Barry cocks it up
Pienaar - recovering from injury but a spent force
Mirallas - played well but didn't score.
Barkley - 3 weeks out, came back too early

Lukaku - been poor for a while, then injured
Naismith - not going to do it at this level

Too many players injured, out of form or past it. Moyes is somewhat to blame because he didn't bring through some of the better kids and re-signed the likes of Pienaar. But Martinez hasn't exactly covered himself in glory by buying Alcaraz and Kone.

I had a bad feeling about this one. We have been flattering to deceive for a while. We monumentally fecked up against Sunderland and couldn't even score. We struggled at Stoke and were rubbish at West Brom.

Martinez has done well thus far but we looked like his former club tonight we really did. Naive, defensively awful and blunt. To be fair to him, he could not have legislated for such season low outings from Barry and Jags but there needs to be some major surgery in the summer. This is still a work in progress and we have to stick with it.

Obviously disappointed, but, yeah... shit really.

Some hefty over reaction. Some horrible commentary.

I will never understand the adoration imaginationless players like Rodwell, Fellaini, McCarthy get whilst anyone trying to make something happen, like Osman, Pienaar, Arteta get blasted when they give the ball away.

There's no way we are as bad as that but RM just took a risk and it didn't pay off.

At least all those players are one game closer to match fitness.

Chin up.

Yes, it's painful to accept but hey we are only 4 points behind. Now is the time to show our support not blaming the manger for the team he put out. Have a look at the bench — who else could he have played that could have made a difference?

Not that it was his fault, but Atkinson did exactly what we all thought he would do. One of their goals came from a Suarez dive and quick countering free kick and another came from the ref playing on when we'd been fouled outside the box. The penalty was fitting as it just wouldn't be a derby without a shite call like that.

The only players who I'd not yell obscenities at are Mirallas, Stones, and... (deep breath) Osman, who came on and was ten times the player Pienaar was.

Naismith proved he's a lower-league standard of player, and Hibbo made my skin crawl just sitting in that spot on the bench where you can always see his liability of a head.

They were off good passes which cut us to pieces on the break, if you watch them again Usain Bolt couldn't have given them yards start and caught them!

If they don't, they can all fuck right off as a bunch of bottling pricks. Baines and every player want £75k a week and C.L. - well fucking prove it!

More importantly for me, we'll be stronger and better equipped under Martinez next season. Yes Bill could give us more money and/or sell up but even more monied sides like Spurs fuck up like this (see Man city Away).

I agree that our recent record at Anfield is so depressing that it does beggar belief. Personally, I think Stevie G-turd made a pact with the devil back in 1998 that went along these lines:

Stevie: 'Satan, have you heard of the Beano?'

Satan: 'Why yes young Steven. Why do you ask?

Stevie: 'Well, Satan, I was thinking, If I always promise to cut my hair in the style of Smiffy, from the Bash Street Kids in the Beano, you know, a regular short back and sides with a stupid extra tincy-wincy little bit at the fringe. Well, if I always cut my hair like that for the next 16 years and never change it, will you let me always be on the winning side in derby matches?'

Satan: 'Well, I don't know, it sounds most irregular.'

Stevie: 'Oh go on Satan, I'll do anything. Please, pretty please.'

Satan: 'Ok then , if you have hair like Smiffy from the Bash Street Kids... and promise to suck my cock on a regular basis then you can have your wish.'

Stevie: 'Thanks Satan!

Satan: 'That's ok son. Personally I'd have asked for a voice that didn't sound like a 5 year old girl, but each to his own. Now, suck SATAN's COCK... HA HA HA HA.'

And thus, at the Crossroads, history was made.

Tonight was bad, I sat in a living room with 2 RS. They have S&S but what else? For the amount of money they have spent...

We had only 2 regulars of our back 4 playing, one of which is the best RB in Europe and the other not 100% fit. Barkley and Pienaar not fit, we lose Lukaku but in a few weeks all our main players 100% fit touch wood and our best player so far (Deulofeu) fit, we will finish above the RS if there ever was RS.

Plain and simple we need to buy some quality players, players that aren't already injured or don't have a history of injuries. Manager's fault for playing too high up the pitch and buying players with injuries.

The honeymoon period well and truly over, time to earn your money Roberto.

Stones was ridiculously straying up front where he was ineffective anyway, therefore leaving the whole flank exposed. In mitigation, he had no one with him until McGeady come on. With Coleman, we all know it would have been totally different. We had no striker after Lukaku went off, what could Traore have done to that shite defence? Alcatraz and Jags have obviously been patched up as we have no CB's left uninjured. The fight for 4th place is not over, and the best way to get revenge for tonight would be to take a CL place off them twats

RS mates already texting - well they can fuckoff. Sisters RS husband continually ringing mobile - just texted him to fuck right off as well. Can we please not play this game anymore? I have had enough, It is too damaging and we do not have the capacity to win the game - 11 Messi's are no good, you need a Cahill and some hard fucking bastard in the middle of the park.

Now was this good football or is that just the label we put on anything that is played on the ground no matter how pointless it is. Were we playing to win? Were we playing without fear? Sin Miedo? Perhaps the one good thing that will come out of this game is the end of all those ridiculous cliches and some more objective views of our current and former manager that don’t involve prostrating yourself at the altar of one extremity or the other. Martinez is facing up to exactly the same problems Moyes did: useless board, weak players who hide behind the manager, strength of others, bad refereeing, inability of a small squad to play 38 games at the same level, crippling injuries.

Yet when Martinez finishes outside the top 4, we’lla ll think its ok to hide behind some ridiculous ’sin mideo’ cliche, banging on about how at least we are enjoying our football (did anyone enjoy tonight?). We are not moving forward in the league regardless of what comes out of anyones mouth at a press conference, regardless of who was or wasnt invited to the training ground, regardless of how many passes we do per game. The result is the same. Until there’s some investment in the squad this massive glass ceiling over us will continue to be ignored. Hope everyone is as intolerant of ’best of the rest’ as they have been in the past. That wil prove that we’re actually bothered about the progression of Everton and not just whether or not we’re bored of who’s in charge or whether we like what they say at press conferences. Reality bites for Everton and Martinez from now on thanks to this result

However, I am proud that at least our players can play the game with honestly unlike the redshite who roll around like children at the faintest of touches. which is a fuckin disgrace. Suarez with an awful challenge on Stones's ankle but the lad carries on...

Our squad is now worryingly thin; we need reinforcements before the window closes.

Keep the faith!

Might well be the end for Lukaku at Everton, that nobody seems to care says it all about his ability. Mourinho is no fool, he is West Brom standard.

We got pasted good and proper by a Liverpool team that completely had our number but we kept on playing into their hands - that's down to the manager.

First Anfield derby for Roberto, and it was humiliating for him; Rogers took him to the cleaners. It doesn't mean we can't make the top four but the fact that we have not brought in the quality that was needed having got into a good half season position is probably going to be more decisive now that our small squad has been hit by injuries.

We also need a player who the fans can get behind similar to Cahill et al - My assessment for a team is if they find themselves at the wrong end of the table can they battle their way to safety and with some of the players in the team - even a full strength team - I'm not sure they could.

On a similar subject if we had our usual poor start to the season, would the Board and manager be so blase about the injuries and having a weaker squad than we started with - Season Ticket holders pay to watch the team for a whole season and shouldn't have to watch a side with no proper Striker available. I hope Lakuku gets back to fitness soon, but he is not the player we should be buying even when fully fit.

Holding court like a more mincing iteration of intergalactic shithouse Ming the Merciless, wiping away mock tears and giving a mournful cry of "Flash! Aaa-aa-ahh!" at the blonde space bastards funeral....even though he fucking hated his hairy human ass and couldn't wait for him to pop his clogs.

Strange how you never seem to pipe up after a win Nick. One might think you're just constantly waiting for those rare occasions where things go tits up so you can seize the chance to try and sew some seeds of doubt and shout 'I fucking told you so!!'. Pathetic.

Jagielka, even when fully fit, isn't the swiftest and with Distin out, and the even slower Alcaraz alongside him, then our defence were always going to be under threat of being left choking on dust. The fact they scored first and we had to push forward in search of an equaliser meant we were really up shit creek whenever they launched a swift counter attack.

I've maintained for a while that Mirallas should be played up front as the furthest man forward. I was hoping that would be the move Martinez would make after Lukaku came off, with Mcgeady going out wide. Instead, he brought on Naismith who struggles to get forward like a liquid nitrogen drenched T1000 that's just seen it's own rapidly freezing leg snap right the fuck off in front of it's red, robotic eyes.

Despite his faults, Mirallas is tricky and quick and could be much more productive through the middle, playing off the shoulder of the last defender. A quick turn or burst of pace and he's bearing down on goal instead of turning back on himself out wide.

Continually cutting in from the wing he has to beat two or three men in front of him to try and get a shot off and doesn't possess the awareness, or unselfish attitude, to simply settle for an assist. He wants to get on the scoresheet and often goes for glory, no matter how slim the chance of success, or how many stand between him and the goal.

With Lukaku now out with ankle ligament damage and Jar Jar Binks not yet fit, then surely now must be the time to try it?

The most worrying thing for me is that when Plan A was demonstrably and obviously failing in front of everyone’s eyes, Plan B was not forthcoming from the touchline.

The image that sprang into my head was Kevin Keegan, England vs Germany at the last game at the old Wembley. Hopefully that isn’t the comparison.

Someone hit the nail on the head tonight,you cannot go a full season on loans. We should be strengthening ,but only everton can make ourselves weaker. What we would of given tonight for jelly to of come on and done something . But no, we let him go and replace him with a injured loan striker. Naismith was like a headless chicken tonight and is not good enough full stop. We need defensive cover,but we will let heitinga go.

I just hope to god Bobby has not fell under kenwrongs magic act ,and just puts up with that frequent trick from the board in making the millions disappear again.it hurts like hell tonight ,but what hurts more is more than half of them players won't be bothered at what happened tonight. I will keep supporting my Blue boys till I die along with many others,and that's why nothing will change,because Kenwright knows we will still be there no matter what happens.COYB

1. Where has Baines and Pienaar's link-up play gone?? No point them being on the same wing if they act like strangers!

2. Do we not even practice how to jump at corners anymore?? Not even asking for us to test the keeper, just win a fuckin header!!

3.Are these the "right characters" that we constantly harp on about signing? If they are well you can stick them!!

Give me a snarling Sturridge or Suarez any day because there WINNERS!! Only player that gets grief on this site about his cocky attitude is Mirallas, best player tonight by a country mile. Where we're are so called leaders?? Not one rollicking did I see tonight!! Jagielka your our captain for Christ sake!! Not Mary fucking Poppins!!

What I know about football you could write on the back of a Rizla paper.

However, last week I posted, how I perceived Liverpool to play, and that was : direct, pacey and sometimes clinical counter attacking football.

If I can see it, then RM surely can - can't he?

We have to set up for what's in front of us, taking into consideration the limitations of the players and the context of the occasion.

Flexibility can not be underestimated.

I knew we were going to lose when I watched our pre-match conference. Playing attacking football is great but you have to know how to defend. We should of gone to Anfield looking for a draw and tried to get something on the break. After they scored the first and Lukaku was taken off Martinez should have changed it around slightly and tried to make sure we didn't concede any more.

At least at 1-0 we would have had a chance to get back into the game. Coleman and Distin have been excellent this season and without them we really struggled. I can only hope we draw them in the FA Cup so we get the chance for revenge.

Martinez has done better than expected so far and this is his first real setback every team has one.

Now we will see what he is made of; sometimes you learn more from a defeat than a win. So let's just wait and see

We didn't actually play the high line early on but we couldn't seem to get possession, move it upfield and retain it. Until their opener our defenders were pretty much pinned on our own 18 yard box and they were either taking potshots or trying to play short balls in to feet. The likes of Pienaar, Mirallas, Barkley and Lukaku were 20/30 yards up-field and largely inactive.

Then, after their first goal, we suddenly tried to compress the game around the half way line but that left us wide open for their counters when we coughed up possession too easily. We did actually seem to change tactics but neither was effective because of the individual cock-ups.

We were far more effective in retaining the ball in the second half but were still vulnerable to the counter attacks and unable to break them down regularly enough because their back four had no real reason to break ranks.

Liverpool are quite clearly a decent side. They have one of the worlds best strikers playing up front in an attacking forward line that has hit 4 past at least 4 teams this season. Our lot have been playing well but have been decimated by injuries. 4 of our starting lineup have been rushed back from injury, quite obviously not in the best shape. Our only decent striker was only on the pitch for 25 minutes. So we took the spanking that was on the cards. Sorry, but it was always a possibility.

Now disappointment is one thing, but reactions like Jim Bennings "not even going to bother on saturday" are puzzling. I understand that this result hurts all the more because of who it is against, but in the context of the season so far it is only a set back. To jump ship after one bad result smacks a little of fickleness.

Top four is possible, but just as unlikely as it was at the beginning of the season. Most supporters before the season started were not expecting Martinez to achieve so much so quickly, with as under the last guy very little investment. The improvement in the football being played cant hide the fact that whilst the first choice starting 11 can give any team a game, the squad is lacking quality, no matter how Bobby dresses it up.

So stick at it. Bad days happen. They are shit. I am not suggesting everyone just says "oh well, it was just an off day", but not react in utter disgust when a clearly strong team pumps a clearly understrength one

I'm honestly disgusted by the flip-flopping of these comments, or maybe 200 of you have been waiting, secretly hoping for a horrible day so you can pop up and say "I told you so." If so, sick.

Everton have had a change in attitude this year, and so have I. So, instead of jumping on your negative bandwagon as I would have in the past - I think we should follow the example of our little Costa Rican, take the bad break and immediately get to work on how to fix it and how to conquer the next challenge.

It's a devastating defeat...but the season has over a third to run yet. We had some players in the team today who were lacking match practice, and were missing several important players. We need to win on Saturday, and then worry about the match against Spurs.

This would have been a different game with our normal backfour.

That said, our back up defensive options are too weak. Stones is nowhere near ready yet, and Alcaraz is not good enough. With an ageing Distin, this is Martinez's big test; we know he can get his teams to attack well, but bringing in the right defenders may well be the biggest test of his talents.

Funny seeing how so many have turned on Alcaraz. Two weeks ago he was the mutts nuts on here, now he isn't good enough.

Jagielka slow and mistake prone. Pienaar not playing to a decent standard. Baines playing like he's still at Wigan. Naismith not being cut out for this level of football despite a handful of goals in big matches. Hibbo still being alive. None of this started today. These are all issues that have popped up regardless of our results all season.

The only thing that is different today is that there isn't much/any stick for Osman, and rightly so. I am one of his biggest critics, but today he looked like the player that so many keep saying is in there somewhere.

If Heitinga is still an Everton player on the weekend, he should be on the field. Firstly to rectify last season's Villa debace, and secondly, because neither centre halves that played today deserve to play next week.

Same for Distin, Suarez's goal; the 36-year-old would have sprinted back and caught Suarez in my opinion, another garbage comment. Distin is over the hill, I also read.

Don't think you can judge Jags on that as Suarez was in front of him ready to go down and earn Jags a red card but Alcaraz was too slow. A man running with a ball should never outsprint a man without a ball on any football pitch.

When I think of these two I think of the times Coleman covering Jags side with his pace and Distin covering Baines with his pace, we missed that pace in the back line tonight.

We are mustard with our first team all fully fit but have no back-up, which transcends from BK. Oh and Naismith is Ali Dia reborn without being found out yet.

It was a shit result, an awful defensive performance, and a demonstration of the dangers of playing/rushing back unfit players.

I don't agree that we showed no spirit; at least we kept trying to attack and kept trying to do the right things going forward. We still very clearly lack a cutting edge, and that's a very very long standing issue that isn't going to get fixed unless we strike it very lucky with the youth team, or with a lower budget purchase.

But I'm also going to accept this as a one off, one of those things that happens and just goes bad quickly. Not something that we should let undermine our opinion of the many good things that have happened this season.

At least, it shouldn't while in isolation. Vital will be how we respond, and how we play against Villa on Saturday.

United are the latest club to get another load of mega-bucks for their new shirt sponsorship - But at least our board are True Blues eh - that is where the problem is and always will be no matter how much hard work the manager does - and those people who are worried about Roberto turning us into Wigan - well I'm afraid our board had already started that process five years ago because as a club we are like Wigan but a slightly bigger version in a football mad city.

Haven't Alcaraz and Stones played before this season and been pretty effective? The RS scored four times tonight and I am pretty sure you couldn't say those two players were culpable for all of them. We just weren't capable enough as a team to contain their attackers.

Stones is a centre back not a full back and Alcaraz is not the quickest but they were only part of the problem. Both of them are pretty comfortable on the ball and can tackle and will play their part in future games.

I believe Everton were playing to the manager's orders.

On a very greasy surface the Suarez and a like would have no qualms going down quite easily and readily with tackles flying about. Without tackles flying about, that's the main reason why Everton's defence was easily breached, yet, possession stats. showed 69% to 31% in Everton's favour.

So Everton were not much outplayed, but playing without tempo and real purpose to make much of a real match of it. And boy, didn't it show?

First off, let's be honest, this was not a good time to play them. Although the team resembled the one that played in the 1st derby of the season there were 3,4,5 guys there who haven't played for weeks and with hindsight the game came too soon for some, if not all of them.

Secondly, support Bobby and the team. Get some perspective, very very disappointed with the result but some of the posts on here are poor to say the least.

As far as the game goes, I don't agree that it was all going fine until their 1st goal and Lukaku's injury. We started the first 5 minutes okay but that was it. In the ten minutes leading up to their 1st goal they looked dangerous every time they won possession and that turned out to be the pattern for the whole game. Let's not pretend Lukaku's injury had much to do with the result, we still would have been beaten with him on the pitch.

Loads of posts quite rightly pointing the terrible performance from the defenders but they were hung out to dry and exposed by our midfield tonight. By an absolute mile Barry and McCarthy's worst performance of the season. I can't quite get over how out of position they both were - the number of times we lost the ball in the RS half of the pitch and both Barry and McCarthy were ahead of the ball was unreal. It was literally like every time we turned the ball over their pacy, mobile front three were running directly at our slow, unfit back line with half the pitch to run into. Bobby obviously could see it but didn't do anything about it - you would have thought a guy with Barry's experience would have sussed it on his own though...apparently not.

Howard: don't think he could do much about the goals, gave away penalty but didn't do much wrong and made a couple of decent saves.

Baines: Just what has happened to Bainsey? Anonymous. Expect more from him, much more. As one of the senior players he needed to take responsibility and really step up...but didn't.

Stones: Going to be a good player, clearly. That said, caught out of position a lot and also looked a bit suspect positionally against Norwich when he played centre back. He seems a nice kid but looks to lack aggression and needs to develop a mean streak if he wants to be a top top defender. Ultimately, this is what you will get from a youngster some good, some bad and that is how they develop and improve. If he's still doing the same in a season or two then would begin to worry,

Jags/Alcaraz: that was humiliating for them both and I sincerely hope it was down to a cruel combination of lack of fitness and being left exposed by the midfield. Just as with Baines, I thought the most disappointing aspect of Jags performance tonight (and that is no mean feat) was lack of taking responsibility - he is the captain, a respected senior player. We were getting absolutely dicked on out there, we needed our captain and I was looking to see Jags screaming at those around him but alas all in vain, he went quiet. Alcaraz has looked a good signing when he has actually been fit but he was so bad tonight and the worst thing was he just didn't look bothered. He might be a decent player but i'm coming round to thinking he's a mercenary and I don't really want that type of player at the club. He needs to have a huge last third of the season for me.

Barry/McCarthy - Their lack of positional discipline really cost us tonight, can't work out why that was as they have been excellent so far for us.

Pienaar: Just didn't look like he should have been playing, simple as. Was absolutely miles off it and no surprise when he went off at half time.

Barkley: Thought he was the best of the returning injured players. Had a quiet game but little glimpses of quality.

Mirales: Great effort and really looked up for it and like he cared - looked like he hated getting beaten by the RS.

Naismith: Didn't have anything to work with, thought his first touch was actually quite good on a few occasions.

Bobby: Weak dude...very fucking weak!!

Again, sorry, but you have been a disgrace on these boards today Mr. Benning, a living embarrassment, I suggest many many cold baths, perhaps a month of them, stop tapping on the hinternett, stop making a fool of yourself .......

I have to echo Paul Ferry, Jim Bennings needs to have a good look at some of his posts tomorrow and put some perspective on things.

There seem to be a number of people who are saying that it's 'only' three points and we are still 'only' four points behind them (although with a much inferior goal difference) so move on but if we had beaten them would we be downplaying the win and saying it's only three points and we are only two points above them so the result is not significant ?

What is the most disappointing thing to me is the RS last home game was Aston Villa, where they were outplayed and should have been beaten, and then last Sat where B'mouth gave them a run for their money, surely we are better than them two yet we get twatted 4-0, I suppose we'll find out on Saturday.

The only way forward from this is to find a positive reaction and drive onward (ok I know that's a tautology but I have other things to worry about)

Dave Ellis - 310 - All very hard to take...but to play with no fear means not to fear the consequences of losing, and losing badly. Its part of the process. You can't expect the players to play without fear if the supporters run for their pitchforks and torches when it does not work out.

Fair enough people can criticise RM for today but to come out and start saying this was coming after the season we have had so far is pretty disgraceful in all honesty. I am still far more optimistic with RM in charge than I was at the end of Moyes 11-years.

I think we can only expect Europa League and perhaps the odd cup here and there but without money, CL is not going to happen.

This is why I don't watch these games.

Harold - People say he's a centre back because that is clearly his best position. He can do a job at right back, but he isn't a natural there. Maybe a loan would be a good idea if we had the cover, but I still don't like the way you talk about one of our brightest prospects.

He's very young, yes, but looks a class act to me and I'm happy for him to make his mistakes with us as he develops to be honest, I wouldn't like to see him loaned out.

What he needs though is real cover and support from the experienced pro's around him, which I don't think he got last night. He will only get better though, and after last night he should absolutely hate Liverpool too....

If we are the fourth best team in the country on that showing I'll eat dogs gonads on toast. Reduced expectations for the rest of the season, and ideally some player acquisitions that start to address the gulf between where we are and where we would like to be.

Only joking.

Last night was awful but like it or not they have a good team with arguably the most on form striker in the world. We were severely disrupted by injuries and those that were playing had a bad night.

It's far from the end of the season and although top 4 looks increasingly tough this is still a team in transition.

Look at City, Chelsea, Arsenal and even them lot. A few injuries and they've either got the squad depth to replace them or they'll just splash the cash.

It's a different game now. The teams that have won the league have spent huge sums of money. Chelsea were shite until the Russian took over. Even bloody Blackburn had to spend to win anything and only then they JUST won it.
Truth hurts but it's how crap the modern game as become.

Glad you believe we can make it but unless Liverp**l and Spurs really mess up this season I doubt we'll be able.

"A key metric of an Everton manager is how well he does against the Shite.

Not very, is the half-term report. Even Moyes never inflicted such a humilation on us.

And, truthfully, what other team would beat us 4-0 this season? Correct.

Thank God I don't share an office with RS."

Please, no lectures from out-of-towners about how 'it is just another game', 'three points like any other' etc etc

At the end of the day, it is just three points lost but the partisan Ref and a shower of diving shithouses (cf. the 'penalty') make it all the more galling. I fell like twatting Suàrez on general principles - every time the fucker goes down he has to do a Tom Daley. Bastard!

And I agree with Paul Ferry (313): right with you Dave Ellis ( 310)

As far as I can see, this was a horrible coalescence of bad stuff. RS with no injuries that matter, Everton forced to play a team a good half of whom should not have been on the pitch due to injury (Pienaar, Alcaraz, Baines, Barklay, Jagielka) inexperience (Stones) or loss of form (Lukaku, McCarthy). All this coupled with a genuine tactical error in having a slow back four against a fast attack. Especially given Liverpool’s traditional crude kick and rush style.

Funnily enough, this might have been just the game to dump our beautiful flowing dominant style and go for KITAP1, since this would probably have thrown Brenda’s standard lower division approach into chaos. Suarez and Sturridge’s could have dived squealing all over the place but if few tackles were going in even Atkinson would have had trouble giving bookings (OK that’s not true, I am sure he’d book a player who was being eaten by Suarez, or being jumped on by Gerrard, or raped by Carragher or Skrtl).

Part of management is throwing the opposition tactics into confusion. RM is a wonderful Romantic manager - a sort of updated Cruyff - who thinks that playing beautiful football is sufficient. Sadly, with professional cheats and easily conned referees infesting the game, this is going to fail to deliver at the highest level unless you have the resources of City or Barcelona. RM needs a Plan B, and in fact, this could be the Moyes legacy which delivers when skill and daring don’t.

The greatest victories are own when generals do something the enemy does not expect which negates the enemy’s strengths and emphasizes his own. The Napoleon of Austerlitz won through outstanding and perfect tactics; the Napoleon of Borodino lost the entire campaign by using just the tactics which the Russians could withstand even though their army was composed of drooling idiot officers and retarded peasants. Last night RM fought Borodino, not Austerlitz.

We've had a run of 9 games in under 40 days, last night it showed that trying to do that successfully with a small squad of top class players with a glut of injuries is impossible. Time to re-group to tackle the last 3.5 months of the season, and that includes us as supporters. There is still time for a bit more excitement.

Lukaku!!!!!!! I am a great believer in RM taking players on loan - actually lets be fucking honest, I doubt RM has much choice because BK is not paying top dollar for anyone.

But for me there is a certain position on the pitch that requires the player to belong to the club, to wear that shirt with total fucking pride. The front man has to put his head on the line, he has to take hit or two and when goals come he has to be involved. After the West Ham game I thought we had just signed the god of strikers - now, I get the feeling Lukaku don't give that much of a fuck wearing a blue, white or red shirt, just as long as he's playing and getting his name put about the media. For me he doesn't put on the part of the shirt that counts - the badge. He needs to show the heart that belongs to that shirt, he needs to show that he is the main man at Everton, our number 9. Sadly we all know that he's not and in my opinion, I doubt he even wants it.

Well done Pete - I think that, in seven words, pretty much sums it up. That's certainly how it feels. That and wanting to punch something....

When the season started I was prepared for more of these types of beatings. To improve in the long term, we need to play outside our comfort zone even when the most appropriate short term thing to do is to go back to things that we are comfortable with.

Last night it would have been very easy to switch to 5-4-1 after goal no. 1 and the Lukaku injury, play deep and long; try to nick a 1-1 draw - dogs of war style. In fact I'll bet thats what OFM would have done. And then we'd have probably 'only' lost 1-0 or 2-0.

Whether we like it or not, a 1-0 loss or a 4-0 drubbing is effectively the same thing in the context of points earned and net result. There is no 'salvaging pride' after 1-0 loss. A loss is still a loss and it still sucks. We need to accept that if we are to evolve into a 'footballing' side then we will have to bear more short term pain. The shock for me wasn't last night, but that there haven't been more such nights this season.

If someone put together a youtube video of all our opportunities to score last night, you'll see that actually we didn't do that bad, but just lacked the cutting edge, ruthlessness and the extra bit of quality that Liverpool posses.

Yes.

This should be plastered over every fucking post in every single thread that's going on about our season being over, or that we "proved" our players are crap, or that Martinez got it wrong.

Spot on, I have said for many years that if I was offered a 4/5 place finish with European football but the price was to lose to the shite I would've taken it every time.

I don't give a shit about them, they are what they are and let's be honest here, 90% of people on this site predicted a mid table finish in Bert's first season and we are exceeding those expectations so I for one am happy despite last night's horror show.

The naivety is not all to do with the players - Martinez must take a lot of responsibility for that hammering. I think he was naive if he thought he could use the Old Trafford/Emirates tactics against the RS speed merchants especially as we were fielding a very makeshift team. Of course if we are being paid what they say we are they should be good enough to come up with a better performance than that.

I have been ecstatic about Martinez this season and I am sure he will sit down and fully reflect upon his naivety last night.

The players let Bert down last night although I do think he should have put Hibbert in ahead of Stones just for experience's sake and Osman ahead of Barkley because of fitness, too many players failed to stand up and be counted and Pienaar was a shining example of that.

BUT just think how we fooled the RS into thinking they are wonderful when clearly they'll be found out soon. At least we are now able to say if only we had more investment, better.luck with injuries and less victimisation from referees. We Blue supporters have been trained in how to deal with failure those fans of the RS won't know what's hit them.

That missed penalty and the Sturridge/ Suerez spat is just the start. Whereas for us the only way is up. Unfortunately, we haven't been trained for success so we won't get as much enjoyment if we remain anxiety ridden.Unless we truly believe that RM can and will deliver. So let's all begin by having continued faith in RM and calmly enjoy the ride in confidence. However, it was bad last night .....Oops! There I go again...

Anyway, in some ways it's a false choice - you won't finish 4th or 5th without beating Liverpool (as a general rule). I think in the seasons Moyes got 4th and 5th we beat Liverpool at Goodison.

One final point. Surely it would make sense to bring Duffy back from Yeovil. He has been excellent there and I would have been happy to see him play last night.

"....but tonight we were beaten by a more ruthless team who exploited our naivety."

I completely agree 100% But I have to say although true, that statement, is the equivalent of a metaphorical, verbal cyanide pill.

I’m really saddened at your post. Why shouldn’t this guy (Jim B) Get it off his chest what he has to say?

Aren’t we now seeing the likes of Tony Marsh being proved right in as much as what he said over the DM years being totally correct? And wasn’t he castigated for it?

Mate, I am moderated for things I said in the past but I believe in free speech and once that’s gone we’re all dead.

Jim, you carry on pal because I for one enjoy what you say. If it hurts some people then tough, it’s a cruel world.

Paul, do what you do best and comment on "things" and not "people". Having said that, Paul, next time you’re in the UK, get round to my gaff, lets go for a pint yeah? I’m from Southport but, these days it’s a Somerset thing ;-P

j