We start games at such a slow pre-season friendly pace that basically we are never likely to blow a side away in the first half.
It is a deliberate act the way we play, its what we are about, we don’t do a high tempo pressing game and we don’t pass the ball with enough urgency.

Its all favourable when the right result comes about but as we say, we cannot keep leaving it until so late,.

It was the same against Villa at home, shocking first half, Spurs at home in November, the Anfield Derby, there have been so many instances and frankly I am not sure it is the way to go but its the way we do it so I cannot see it changes any time soon.

We struggle against sides who are not as talented because we don’t put their defences under enough pressure.
When McGeady came on we started getting better quicker balls into that area that hurts defences and the resluted in the winning goal.

It infuriates me when I see 25 passes between Baines and whoever on the left and at the end of it all we have actually got no further towards hurting the opposition.

As I say, its maybe not always going to be a favourable late goal that saves us and I certainly would like to see that last 10 minutes we had yesterday performed much earlier in our matches.

I do feel a bit sorry for Cardiff but then I think back to Chelsea and John Terry and the sorrow goes. I look forward to the home games. We tend to always do well against Man City at home, Man Utd don’t look like they are improving... and we owe Arsenal.

It wasn’t a great performance, I agree. Cardiff were fighting for their lives though. Swansea will be the same next week. I think every game between now and the end of the season will be a tight one.

Infact we’ve generally broke quite quickly and with numbers when we were able and if you remember back to the Arsenal FA Cup game, our goal came from such a break away. Quite often we’ve been let down by some individual decisions or lack of pace and ability (how many times has Naismith got the ball on a break and had to check back due to his inability to go past someone?).

Roberto needs time to impose his tactics on the team. He has said he is trying to introduce ideas gradually to allow the players to grasp them and this means that our football may not always seem to be the most effective. Things will improve with time, especially as more able players are brought in, but it requires patience - probably a couple of seasons - before we start to see the real benefits.

As Paul points out, when we play both Mancs and the Arse we will need to be a lot more clinical.

More seriously.. McGeady will be sound..

It’s a little worrying that Ross Barkley is not good enough to replace a-couple-of-years-past-his-best Leon Osman.

We have enough young lads, Deulofeu, Barkley, McCarthy, Lukaku, Mirallas in the team to be able to start matches pressing the opponents high up the pitch with a bit of urgency and tempo.

Too often we start matches like someone has just dragged our players straight from their bed, it so slow and lethargic at times and I don’t know if Martinez has noticed it and tried to work on it and the players are just slow to pick up the instruction or what but starting games slowly has cost us in some games already.

For instance if we go away to Newcastle and Fulham and start slowly then they are going to gain confidence from the fact that we don’t look that good.

The same thing happened at home to Sunderland on Boxing Day. We started so bad that day and the mistake which led to the sending off was just a symptom of how bad we had actually started and we paid the price.

This year is has been quite a habit that we have slipped into and for me the sooner we get out of it the better.

At the moment we seem to start the first 5-10 minutes quite well but when we don’t make a break through tend to run out of ideas. We could do with Barkley returning to the form he showed prior to Christmas as he was the player who could pose defences problems with his direct passing and eye for a pass.

Swansea next week will be a real test as they have begun to slide down the table and they will have learned a lot from the cup meeting. Perhaps a change of style may be in order but RM seems pretty adamant to keep the faith with his current method of playing.

People need to retain a sense of perspective and look at the bigger picture.

Firstly, our players are not of the quality that some other teams have, where they are able to play sufficiently better than the other team to zip it about and be incisive. We have a young, rough Ross Barkley supported by Naismith, some other teams have a world-class Ozil, Cazorla, Hazard, etc supported by other top quality talent.

We have a new manager this season with a new coaches and vastly different ideas from the old one.

We have half a new team with all the in’s and out’s.

We’ve had the worst injury crisis I can recall with the team changing each week depending on who has picked up the latest knock.

We had 1 transfer window when Roberto had no cash of note and had to bring in 11th hour signings to cover Fellaini’s late departure, which was not ideal.

We had another transfer window when decent players were just not available and some of Roberto’s gambles didn’t pay off.

Quite how people expect us to be winning all of our games and in style considering all of the above baffles me.

Look at where we are in the league. Look at the resources available to the teams above and below us. I’d love us to be playing fantastic football and be in a CL spot, but it’s an unrealistic expectation, especially in the short term.

The type of football we’re playing is difficult to get right. If you play possession football, your opponent has a chance to get behind the ball and it requires more skill to break them down. However in the long run, when we master this type of football we’ll be more difficult to beat.

The more direct style of football gets you occasional short term results, but is ugly and does not translate well to winning in europe or even domestically, as Moyes found out.

If I’m honest I’m not paying a vast amount of attention to this seasons performances or even the results. I’m more concerned with our long-term situation. Martinez seems a clever manager who is willing to sacrifice short term gains for long-term benefit, and on that basis I’m delighted we got him and got rid of Moyes. If we can keep up with the pack during his transition period, then I’m delighted.

Lukaku likewise was pretty dreadful but not to the extent of the above pair. Finally I thought DelBoy was pretty dire but thought he should have been left on as he has it in him to do something different/special as per the goal. Baines always seems a bit of a lesser player when Pienaar is missing.

The argument was always that Moyes selected Osman because they were friends and Moyes distrusted young players.

But Roberto cannot be accused of selecting Osman out of friendship and Roberto is certainly not distrustful of young players.

So you have to conclude that Osman is selected because he’s actually a bit better than most fans think he is otherwise why would Moyes & now Roberto keep playing him?

Yes, we are winning too many games at the death, but considering how toothless we can be upfront, I am happy with this. The number of drawn games is still in single figures, albeit at 9,and with the fact that the number of games lost is still only 5, is encouraging.

We are also still in with a very good shout of a fifth place finish.

On the downside, we are relying heavily on loan players and are not winning away from home enough to get in the Top 4. Our away form is a concern for me. Results at Goodison are excellent though.

With the pathetic support given by the Board, you'd still have to say Roberto is doing well so far.

Results went our way with both Spurs and Utd losing leaving a top 5 finish in the realms of possibility. I think our football has improved and some work needs to be done in the final third.

We look very dangerous on the rebound and the young Spanish whizz-kid is a real prospect. It was a brilliant goal from him perhaps we can have him for another season? I did wonder about McGeady but, after what he showed when he came on, I think he can lock down a starting place ahead of Mirallas.

Dunno why Naismith was played out wide? Great skill from Coleman with the goal.

Let's call a spade a spade here guys: this was dire. Yes, their goalie made a few good saves (again, mostly shots from distance) but so did ours: DJ Campbell missed the best chance of the match when his shot cannoned off Howard's trailing foot. We scored two lucky goals and were very fortunate to even get a draw when the referee waved away Zaha's penalty appeals. (How many whistle happy refs would have penalised Distin's challenge?)

If Martinez does not start learning from his mistakes, victories like this (welcome as they are) merely paper over the cracks.

What on earth is he doing with Ross Barkley? Claims that Osman only plays when injury forces the hand of Martinez are becoming laughable. Our manager was very deliberate about going public with his promises to Barkley (when he was playing well) but, as soon as the kid DID start making mistakes, he was back to being Ossie's understudy.

I really don't get what Martinez is trying to achieve... Yes, I get he wants us to be more in control of the game, but how on earth does he think we are going to score goals without getting our players into the opposition box? If we can score so many late goals late in the game by desperately committing men forward, why not do it earlier?

I didn't think it was possible to find a manager whose team would create less chances than Moyes. I certainly didn't believe Martinez would be that man... but it's there for all to see, yer just need to open yer eyes.

Excellent post and I think that sums it up nicely. I also wonder if we are not quite feeling as good about our position in general as the RS are doing so well. Nothing like an Everton win and a RS defeat to complete the weekend.

Which kind of cancels out your argument for their penalty, two wrongs can make a right.

People picking out half of the facts just so they can moan about a team that they are supposed to support annoys the crap out of me.

Next season will be much the same if we start talking up the prospects of getting the same past their best players on the pitch again.

Apart from Stones,Barkley, Coleman, McCarthy and McGeady then you look at the players who wont be here next season for sure the likes of Lukaku, very possibly Deulofeu.

Then you look at the other players who are getting older Jagielka, Distin, Pienaar, Osman, Hibbert, Alcaraz, Howard and even Baines.

Add the usual long term injury prone Gibson (will next season be any different??)

Then you are looking at a considerable amount of work improving on what we have to go with next season.

Liverpool had a transitional year with Rodgers but they realised they soon had to get shut of Kuyt, Poulson, Meirelles, Spearing, N'Gog, Shelvey and Carroll to name a few and replace them with younger hungry and most importantly better players.

Do we have the money to actually do that?

It's all well and good going on about transition but its no use dragging the very last drops of energy from the old guard we have because we have seen this season a major decline in certain players.

You get the feeling a certain former manager and possibly a certain Arsene Wenger will be looking at Coleman for sure this summer.

As for the results, then there's only so many times you fluke something before it's not a fluke any more. The home form this season has been fantastic, whether it's due to last-minute free kicks or not, whatever we do at home, as mind numbing as it can be at times, works.

Away is a different story. This is apparently where our so-called better performances have come at the likes of the Emirates, White Hart Lane, and Stamford Bridge, but the points return is poor. This is where the work is needed.

There's a good platform here that could go either way. Next season, we could continue being great at home as the method is solidified, and start improving away; or we could start missing those last-minute goals, and we have problems on both fronts. We won't know until next season, though.

We appear to be the anti-thesis of our arch rivals across the park who move the ball forward with rapier like speed and counter attack at will. Given that Roberto is still bedding in it would be churlish to expect that his brand of football would be embraced by all, and with OFM players largely at his disposal expectations need to be tempered until the manager finds the right players to suit his system.

I would be hopeful that Martinez is able to recruit a ball-playing central midfielder during the summer to quicken up the football and approach play and the acquisition of two forwards is a minimum requirement. Distin also looks like he could be coming to the end and he looks more prone to errors as each season passes. Joleon Lescott has been mentioned but I'm not sure that a return to his former Club would be considered as to the right way forward. Interesting times as Rick Tarleton alluded to, the form of the RS always seems to exacerbate the tension amongst the blue ranks and quite rightly so.

I think RM has done well this season and personally I don't care at what point in the game we score as long as it's the winner - then so be it!

For those who are worrying about next season, let's finish this one as we still have 10 games left for goodness sake!

Teams evolve, older players play less, younger players play more and the odd transfer (we hope) will supplement the squad. Let next season take care of itself, let's win as many of the 10 games left (even in the 94th minute!), and let's see where it takes us.

I know its early doors for Barkley but I have seen nothing at all to suggest he is going to be a creative midfielder, the lad is a driving midfielder who charges with the ball.

We need a calmer influence there at times , someone who can get their foot on the ball and look for runners, Barry can play some decent balls but his way of playing will never hurt the opposition because his controlled passing is too deep.

Perhaps that lad we were linked with in January, was it Canales from Valencia or Betis I think?

Its just a crying shame we couldnt have got to Coutinho before that lot spotted him.

That is the kind of player we need to be on the lookout for though.

I am praying that links to Rodwell are just lazy journalism because I cannot for the life of me see what re-signing him would offer.
Its just like for like in terms of Barry, Gibson, McCarthy.

If we cannot afford to keep Barry then the one I would be looking at is Tom Huddlestone, a very very under-rated technically gifted player in my opinion.

It's interesting reading The Guardian today to hear what Kevin Sheedy has to say about him. From an absolute legend to that Moyes played to draw matches at Goodison while Everton manager is no shocker but for him to say it through social media is quite a statement. He signs off from one conversation with a guy called GeorgeRobboEFC and says to him "George chill. We now have a Manager who wants to win games. COYB."

Legend!!

"Supposed to support " ? ? ?

I spend all my disposable and more following this team around and I believe that entitles me to criticise a manager who I believe is regularly failing to come to grips with the very basics of the game. The two incidents I spoke abot were witnessed by nearly 40,000 at the game and millions watching, there are no "half facts".

If you feel the Cardiff claims for what they see as a justifyable penalty were nulified by our inability to defend their free kick thats fair enough, but its not an argument I understand.

I'm not arguing about whether it was a free kick or not, just as I didnt argue about whether Distin committed a foul for sturridge's goal, or Jagielka for Terrys goal or whether Spurs scored as a result of the referee giving them a dodgy free kick, know why ? Because I've been watching the game long enough to know shit happens .. and when shit happens you either deal with it or you become victim to it. Its not as if we are talking about anything other than the very basics here. Even the Pullis's of this world can drill a team to defend a free kick or a corner.

Make no mistake here, I'm pointing the finger directly at Martinez because no matter who plays, we still concede these cheap,cheap goals. He has international defenders not knowing what the fuck their role is in these situations. One minute they are zonal, the next, they are man for man . We even change it mid game FFS.
If you didnt brace yourself when Cardiff were awarded that free kick (rightly or wrongly) then you will have been in a very small minority.

Rather than attack those who refuse to deny the evidence of their own eyes, why not count the cost of repeatedly giving away the cheapest of all goals ? Tot up all the goals we have conceded like this, THEN tot up the points -and the potential financial rewards - they have cost us.

Wigan were terrific at defending corners and free kicks under jewel and Bruce, but Martinez was never able/willing to address it, its almost as if he thinks these goals are'nt as valueable.

We should be AT LEAST challenging for CL and I would argue that we would have been had we been able to do the basics when defending a deadball situation.

Some continue to ignore the fact that we are enjoying the benefits of millions of pounds worth of loaned talent, they argue that lack funds is an excuse for failure to trouble the big boys. .Sorry, thats not what my eyes have seen and I'm not prepared to deny the evidence of them. We have generally more than matched these teams.

We know we have a problem and I would argue that criticising the manager and letting him know what is unacceptable will be far more benificial to our club than telling him how wonderful he is and pretending we are not squandering possibly our best chance by gifting goals the oposition don't even have to work for

I actually think our defense has improved this season. Last season whenever Jags paired Distin you were always constantly uneasy that one good ball could do the pair of them. It was the season before at Carrow Road that I gave up on them as a pairing. Jelavic won us the game twice only for their ridiculous errors to allow Norwich to take a point. This season at least we look solid in open play if not from set pieces. But we should really considering we play two holding midfielders every match one of which costs 13 million.

As Liverpool are showing, its far easier to build a team to outscore someone than it is to build one to not concede and hope to score. Something our current and most recent manager did not/have not yet grasped.

I'm not sure the goals you refer to having been leaked in such a fashion would have us battling for a CL place (although your point is well taken), I rather think it is a lack of clinical finishing in front of goal, caused by the slow build-up and lack of penetration through the middle.

However, it is a game of opinions and I respect what you have said, whilst accepting these soft goals contribute, such as the Cardiff and Sunderland goals.

What would be classed as your reasonable expectation? The title? A good season would be 10 points clear of Man City, perhaps? Sounds entirely reasonable and achievable to me....

We may have loaned Lukaku and Barry, who're probably worth a few quid, but both of those are cast-off's, from the teams we should be beating for that 4th spot by your reckoning.

Of course Martinez gets no praise from you for their addition at the 11th hour when our best midfielder forced a move. Not surprising when those two are no real improvement over McFadden, Hitz or Straq, really.

I'd say all considered we should "at least" be top half. If we finish ahead of Spurs and/or Man Utd we can say we've had a pretty good season for Martinez's first attempt.

If we manage to get into a Europa League spot, I'd say a very good season; Champions League... I'll be fucking ecstatic given the handicap our new manager is having to work with.

Yes, our defending has sometimes been dire, I hope it improves too, but ultimately our manager will be judged on results, league placings and any trophies he can win. Given we have one of the best defensive records in the league, a better points total than this time last year, a better points total by far than any club with our budget, a better defensive record than virtually every other team in the league, I don't think your argument stacks up, really.

Some might say you're being unreasonable in your expectations. To me, sounds like you've an axe to grind and will always find fault no matter what.

My main reason for writing is to state that I disagree with one key point in the argument. The soft goals conceded isn't the issue. We have a pretty respectable defensive record. It's the soft striking that is derailing our season.

When a team focuses on possession football it has to have an end to the means. Pass-pass-pass to the power of ten isn't what I want to see ultimately. It's nice that we have it this season and the change and positive approach is refreshing. But I want us to win. If we win nice then great. But I'd prefer a scabby win to a football purist's draw or defeat any day. I assume that the players take to the field with the intention of winning rather than looking "slick".

I'm now looking at this season as our transition season. Change will take time – but next season we do need to mix it a bit in my opinion. I'm not accusing anybody of stupidity but one definition of it is, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

It's not just down to resources – that line of argument is too simplistic and if true then we may as well give up now. (BTW Wigan just beat City in the cup at the Etihad).

The manager is employed with his eyes open. He mentioned CL football. It's his job to achieve that aim with the resources he knows he has to work with.

Yeah, clearly. The undeniable evidence is right there in the results: the team has managed to bumble it's way through two/thirds of the season under his tutelage, being beaten an embarrassing five times. Standards have slipped appallingly from what we've become accustomed to in past seasons. He's clearly got less clue than a shitfaced Columbo waking up with a Scotch egg where his glass eye should be.

"Make no mistake here, I'm pointing the finger directly at Martinez... He has international defenders not knowing what the fuck their role is in these situations."

If, as it should be, being an international is a barometer of a players quality, then surely they should be able to come to terms with a simple switch from man-marking to zonal marking without going to shit at a set-piece? Distin (the only defender who isn't an international but is a 37-year-old experienced pro) never had the tendency to lose concentration, make a costly slip or come out second best in an aerial challenge before Martinez got his hands on him I suppose?

Considering he's the only defender, and one of the very few in the squad, possessing any real height, which of his 'International' teammates do you believe should be dominating at set pieces in his stead? Jagielka? Never been the best in the air. Coleman? The same. Baines? I suppose that poor bugger lost his famed ability to leap like a salmon after Martinez went fucking mental with a shrink ray in the summer?

The truth is we conceded sloppy goals from corners and free kicks last season... and the season before that... even with the benefit of Fellaini being back there. It's not something that has just suddenly materialised under Martinez. We lack height throughout the team. You can't 'coach' inches.

"Wigan were terrific at defending corners and free kicks under jewel and Bruce"

Were they really? According to who? How many goals did they concede from corners, per season, playing under the aforementioned managerial maestros who resemble members of Monsters Inc minus the fur? I presume you have the numbers seen as though you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they were significantly more solid from set pieces than they were under the Spaniard?

In the abstract I'm perfectly content to lose the odd game for reasons of transition or a move to a more exciting style of play. In reality, if we lose I'm still unhappy.

A good season for me is one that's still 'alive', i.e. One where we can still win something, e.g fa cup, champions league place (these days, in the good old days that wouldn't have been too much to write home about) etc... Once it's over all I care about is whether we won, and whether the World Cup will distract me from the lack of Everton for the majority of the summer.

Now I think Martinez has done a good job, but it's difficult to get too excited now we're out of the fa cup and are seemingly out of contention for a CL place. Still we won Saturday, so despite that I'm happy:) Even if we're not trampling on teams like Godzilla on the rampage.

I'd like our manager to use the fantastic defenders (you know, the ones he inherited) to their full potential. To give them clear instructions as to what their responsibilities are when defending set-pieces and if he can't do that (and there's no evidence to suggest he can), he should employ a coach who can.

I'd like him to get more players into the opposition box so, when our two fantastic full backs (the ones he inherited) get behind the opposition defence, they can whip in dangerous balls that will be attacked rather than have to try to pick out the lonely guy in the blue marked by 2-3 defenders. That way, they will get the assists their play deserves to add to their goals (a lot of which they can file under "all my own work").

I'd like Martinez's team to create more chances and score more goals than the most negative manager we've ever had managed to do with this group of players (something he has failed to do, despite having the added benefit if a £20m rated striker).

I'd like him to ditch the idea that two defensive midfield players are ALWAYS required.

I'd like Martinez to fulfill his public promise to Barkley (the talent he inherited) as opposed to making him Ossie's understudy. (I'd also like it if the people who claim it is down to RB being rushed back to quickly, were to ask themselves whose fault that was?)

I'd like a little excitement, a little injection of pace and unpredictability, for McCarthy to drive at defences as we know he can... but right now, I'd settle for him knocking those sidewards/backwards purposeless passes on the head.

There"s an awful lot more I would like, but I'm not a greedy man, I think Martinez would have achieved Champions League football if he'd have met these simple, even basic expectations. Does that make me somebody with an axe to grind? Not really; it just makes me disappointed and frustrated.

I have said all season that I believe this is the best chance we will get of breaking the top four. I want to be wrong, because the thought of being right depresses the fuck out of me.

I think we've also suffered from Lukaku almost giving up on making the fantastic runs he was making earlier in the season as a couple of players seem reluctant to pass the ball when there is even the slightest chance of scoring themselves. It's a shame as Lukaku was dragging defenders all over the place and creating loads of space for the rest of the team.

We were getting goals from everywhere and I think his movement and runs were appreciated by everyone even if he wasn't always getting on the scoresheet himself. When he gave up making the runs we had nobody to replace him with and ended up selling the only genuine competition he had to Hull City. That probably applies to every other player who has lost form or suffered through injury as well. Simply no real depth or genuine completion apart from the likes of Oviedo, Delboy (loan).

That is fucking disgusting and Martinez is actually doing a fucking good job as Moyes did before him, When firing on all cylinders and fully fit we are a match anybody but there simply isn't the squad depth. Take away the loan players and there isn't really even a team either. The squad depth situation has become critical with two decent managers papering over the cracks left by a board who are not fit for purpose.

Take a look at the table and you see our home form is that of Champions League challengers and is as good as anybody's (perhaps lacking a few goals scored that's all).

But our away form, our lack of wins is glaring.
We have won the fewest away games in the top half, even less than Newcastle and Southampton and the same amount as Villa.

Now it's all well and good saying we don't lose many away games, but the fact is we don't win many either and its the wins that are more crucial than just not losing.

I would rather we won 8 and lost 8 away games than just lose 4 or 5 and win our usual meagre tally of 4.

Its somethings that we badly need to put right over the next few away trips.

No disrespect to Newcastle or Fulham but if we cannot get at least three points from these trips then I give up on winning away again this term.

For me, an "expectation" is a minimum. I expect my team to play with passion. I expect my manager to attempt to win every game. I don't expect us to win every game.

Whether I'm happy or unhappy with something is another matter altogether from what I expect. Was I apoplectic with rage when we lost to the RS? Yep. Am I really annoyed whenever we lose or drop points to anyone? Yep.

Darren, you list a whole heap of things you want Martinez to do. But things are not as simple as saying "play better", "score more". You want more players in the box? I agree. Unfortunately it means you're more likely to get fucked on the counter. Everything you try to do usually has a negative side-effect that can be exploited.

You say he shouldn't always play with 2 defensive midfielders. I agree 100%. Shall we play Oscar in there? How about Arteta? Oh I forgot, we don't have any fit creative central midfielders on our books. Maybe he plays with 2 defensive midfielders because that's generally what he's got to work with.

If he played Osman or Barkley in there and we lost because they got dispossessed I'm sure you'd be the first to harangue Martinez for not having a strong enough midfield. Its easy to be a critic when you criticise with hindsight and none of your theories ever need to be tested.

You complain Martinez hasn't played Barkley enough, then chastise him for bringing Barkley back too early, then chastise him again for giving the lad a rest and playing Osman. Do you know what you want, other than to moan?

Its been well documented that Barkley is still feeling his injury a little bit, if he's playing less frequently and less minutes that probably has something to do with it. Martinez probably feels Osman is good enough to beat the opposition at hand without risking Barkley on the pitch for an extended period.

Our team probably spends an amount of money to finish 8th or 9th all things being equal. If the manager and team do a better than average job, we'll finish higher, if not we finish lower.

You expect Martinez, in his first season, to play good football, score more goals than the last guy, while not conceding any more, and finish higher than at least 4 or 5 other teams who've spent vastly more than us over many seasons....and you think you're being reasonable?

How many times since the premier league was formed have we finished in the top 4? Once in 22 attempts? Has our spending increased relative to our rivals? No. Has the resource gap widened? Yes. Are there now many more teams than there were who spend vastly more than us? Yes.

Expecting any manager to achieve top 4 with our resources is asking for near-perfection and a big fat slice of luck. The fact we're still in with a chance with 10 games to go is great.

The fact we're ahead of OFM and his league winning squad and could be ahead of spurs who were able to spend £100M this season alone if we win our game in hand is also admirable.

I'm with you 100% in that things are not perfect. I agree that we could achieve CL football if we're able to get more out of the team - and if the richer teams continue to underperform. I also happen to think that chastising a manager in his first season because he's not able to achieve that near perfection is weak.

What David Johnson said is perfectly correct. When we had a settled side and a fit side there were no problems with the results or the tactics. We were doing really well. We've still got half a team out. We've still got players on the pitch nursing knocks. We're also much closer to providing a real threat to richer teams with the players he's brought in and the way we're playing. We now go to those places to win, not to avoid defeat.

We've recently only lost to teams who historically we've not beaten a lot and who have bigger, and probably better squads than us, RS(A), Arsenal(A), Spurs(A), Chelsea(A). The teams you'd expect us to beat, we've beaten, Cardiff, WHU, Swansea, Villa.

Jim complains our away form is poor. The season isn't over yet and we've now played all the rich clubs away. We've still to play Newcastle, Fulham, Sunderland, Southampton and Hull away. I think our stats will improve.

Regarding this being 'the best chance to get in the top four', how about a comparison:

Last Season
Utd: champions by 15 points, but apparently rubbish
Arsenal: no strikers, no spends, stagnation.
City: complete turmoil, revolt against manager.
Chelsea: lack of strikers, unpopular manager, unrest
Lpool: doubts about manager, slow and ponderous
Everton: genius manager, just needs money

This season
Chelsea: Mourinho back - 'nuff said.
City: New manager, positive tactics, team spirit.
Arsenal: actually spent some money.
Lpool: ominously good, two class strikers, pace.
Utd: genius of a new manager, spent 65m
Everton: 'rubbish' manager who will 'turn us into Wigan'

Looks to me like a harder task this year, yet we have more points so far...

The very fact that Martinez signed two defensive midfield players tells us all we need to know about his intentions before a ball was even kicked. He wants TWO insurance policies protecting his defence, otherwise he'd have signed different types of players... And if you think he's going to do a U-turn now, you're in for a disappointment. This is it: if he fails to sign Barry, you can be very certain he will sign another defensive midfield player.

Martinez did not come from South America, he came from down the street; he knew our squad as well as you and I did. He knew all about Ossie and he was happy to strengthen elsewhere. This formation is not one that has been forced on him; he chose it.

I didn't "chastise" RM for bringing Barkley back too soon, he did that himself, when he admitted it was "a bad mistake". I have a bigger problem with the fact that he strapped him up and gave him painkillers in order to do it, Perhaps somebody wants to defend that?

If Barkley has not fully recovered from a broken toe after all this time, is it not conceivable that his recovery was hampered by aggravating the injury before it was healed? And if, as you claim (in order to justify Ossie getting in before him), he is not yet recovered, then what the fuck is he playing for?

I really don't get why you think comparing our season to the shambles at OT and WHL somehow endorses the job Martinez is doing. By bringing them into the debate, you present a stronger case for the prosecution than you do for the defence. We should be taking advantage of their plight rather than preening ourselves for being sandwiched between them. They will not be this bad again in a long, long time.

The Premier League is a shambles this season, you only have to look at how the EPL's finest have been murdered in their beds by Europe's elite to see that. No team has been able to dominate the shit heap and four teams can still win it.

The bottom half is as bad as it's ever been, despite most teams starting with new managers; it's still looking likely that the number of Prem managers sacked this season may reach double figures... and we've got fans wanting to celebrate the fact that we MAY finish above two teams in complete crisis.

Martinez must be rejoicing in the fact that he follows a guy who left Evertonian expectations at an all-time low. Let's just overlook the fact that when Chelsea draw a decent team, the EPL's humiliation in Europe will be almost certainly be complete; let's overlooked the fact that many of the clubs below are run by madmen and, such is the standard, it's almost impossible to say which ones are shite enough to go down...

Let's not get above ourselves and expect our team to capitalise. Let's just rejoice in the fact that we have a great chance of finishing above a team who are having their worst season for 30 years.They spent more money than us ya know

So now the Premier League is a shambles is it? Well there are some signs to say that is true but regardless of the standard Everton are still punching above their weight due to having had a negative net spend. If we finish fifth and we have a good chance of doing so, what more could we have expected from Roberto in his first season at the club.

Every Everton supporter wants the Blues to demolish every team we meet but it is and has never been as simple as that especially in a managers first season. If we're still struggling for goals this time next year I will also be concerned about the methods that Roberto has employed but give the guy a chance won't you.

Nothing to do with the fact he needed to replace the injured Gibson and departing Fellaini then?

"I have a bigger problem with the fact that he strapped (Barkley) up and gave him painkillers in order to do it, Perhaps somebody wants to defend that?"

So Martinez disregarded the advice of the club medical staff, snuck Ross a couple of roofies, strapped him up and slung him out on the pitch before the poor sod knew what had hit him? Why does he need defending? The player wanted to play, said he was ready to play, was obviously given clearance to play by the club medics and, oh, it was the teams biggest game of the season. If we'd have won everyone would have thought it well worth taking a slight risk on.

"If Barkley has not fully recovered from a broken toe after all this time, is it not conceivable that his recovery was hampered by aggravating the injury before it was healed."

You clearly have no concept of foot injuries. The boy broke his toe. It's not that the injury hasn't healed. It's just that due to the very nature and site of said injury and the fact he has to, y'know, constantly kick a fucking ball with his foot (or put pressure on the foot, or get lift from the foot) then he will still feel a sharp pain on occasion. It's not excruciating. It doesn't signify a continuing problem that might be made worse. It's just a bit of discomforting pain that takes time to completely disappear. It's perfectly normal and Baines had to put up with a similar thing earlier this season. Don't go off on some flight of fancy and make out like the manager is putting the player's future career in jeopardy.

It's ironic really: me (the critic) thinks he can do it, but his defenders are falling over themselves to put up excuses to prove he can't.

People keep pleading for him to be given more time, but what for? Man Utd and Spurs, maybe even Newcastle will eventually get their act together... then it really will be impossible.

No offence mate, I think your posts are usually funny and insightful. But have you seen how many lame excuses you've thrown up on this thread.

Is it an attempt at some sort of record?

You only have to look at the table though and realise that this season isn't the complete disaster you seem to be making it out to be.

We are by no means the finished article and some of the stuff you point out are things that certainly need to be addressed.

However, I don't believe it is a reasonable expectation of any new manager at any club to come up with the finished article after 28 games and two transfer windows in charge. Particularly when not being provided with any significant financial backing in these windows.

Personally I believe in what Roberto is trying to achieve at our club. I believe in his footballing philosophies and I believe that if anyone can take us to the "next level" then he can.

It will take time. It will take a bit more money than has been made available to date. Yes, it will also take some significant improvements in certain areas of our game.

But you make Roberto out to be some kind of disaster waiting to happen who doesn't know what he's doing. I don't think anything could be further from the truth.

True, it's not all been plain sailing so far. The guy isn't perfect and our early season promise has slowly petered out but, barring someone turning up in a turban with a flying carpet and a big blue gobby cunt crammed in a copper lamp, I don't see how, realistically, he could be expected to have done much better.

(Okay, there was the derby debacle but it's not the first time we've been embarrassed against the Beverly Hillbillies and it probably won't be the last.)

The most telling thing you posted is the line "We are so close its painful". In my opinion, you are putting too much faith in the footballers we have at the club whilst laying disproportionate blame at their managers feet. I think everyone dared to dream a little around December as we were starting to look the real deal but, the harsh reality is, some people were running away with themselves. The squad, although now being utilised more, still isn't big enough and doesn't contain sufficient quality to sustain a concerted challenge.

If there is one thing this group of players has shown consistently over the years it's that, as a collective, they're capable of getting reasonably close... only to pull up gasping and pointing at their tatty Gola two stripe when the pressure is truly on. Martinez might be able to change this, but only if he's given time to fully implement his methods, bring in more of his own players and, generally, get things how he wants rather than how they were left behind by the last guy. By judging him already, on the basis of falling just short in his first season, I believe you are jumping the gun.

What's happened since last summer? I've had over 10 years of people telling me to be patient regarding our manager. Now that we've changed, we demand success straightaway. We had no money, now we're apparently rolling in cash, which hasn't been spent yet.

All of a sudden, every expense is added to loan deals to make them look extortionate. 6th has gone from genius to under-achieving. Last year the FA Cup 'doesn't matter' when we're knocked out by Wigan, yet it's a disaster when we lose away to Arsenal.

Oh yeah, and we're not allowed to compare, because it's not appropriate.

This isn't an argument that says everything Martinez does is perfect – there's plenty to legitimately criticise. I find it odd that so many are desperate to pour scorn on the Everton manager.

I agree with you, Darren, we could have done better this season. We need more pace and guile in the last third of the pitch. We need to tighten up on set pieces. We need a good goalkeeper (Marshall?)

I think Martinez can do this and I'm not interested in making 'excuses' for him. In his first season, I think he's going to at least match his predecessor. That's nothing to go wild about, but does it merit the level of stick he gets on here?

I have not come across the "stick" you say Martinez gets, only legitimate criticism from people who think he could/should be doing better.
I have not heard any abuse directed at him and I have not heard a single call for him to be replaced, not in the pub, not at the game and not on here. He's hardly under the cosh

When your best midfielder rocks up with 3 hours of the transfer window to go, and forces a move, the fact we got any fucker of note in is remarkable. Actually getting two very good international midfielders in, who have been a bedrock of the results we've achieved is better than most of us could've reasonably hoped.

It's entirely because you make it sound like Martinez identified these two players in July, had the money to buy them and spent all summer plotting how he was going to use them in our new formation, that I think you actually just have an axe to grind and want to moan about anything you can.

You can moan that he should've known that Osman was not good enough. Half our team are not good enough, ffs. Does that mean he can do anything about it? Pull £15M from his arse in July to sign a quality creative midfielder, perhaps?

Management is all about making decisions, balancing trade-offs. When you have no money to spend, then there are going to be compromises. Not being able to acquire that creative centre mid in the first few transfer windows is one of them.

This is why I will judge Martinez after several seasons, to see how his longer term vision pans out, because a club with our resources will never enable the manager to change things in the way he wants immediately.

I just think there's a difference between opinions on tactics, selection and pace that speak for themselves, positive and negative, and some of the nonsense on here around us suddenly having loads of money, other clubs suddenly imploding, the Premier League turning shit (been that way for a while), players don't last the whole game (best record for late goals). To be fair, there's also plenty of nonsense about Martinez being 'better' with young players.

If I was really clever, I'd name a few managers who have taken over a well-run, workmanlike team that regularly finishes 6th to 8th, and gets everything right within seven months and sends his team into the top four.

Martinez has done OK so far. If anything, I think he's too cautious at times. He's handled the injured payers badly, bringing them back too quickly. He has an irritating habit of stating that keeping the ball on the halfway line is 'controlling the game'.and of course he was bollocks in the last transfer window.

I think it's great that Martinez gets plenty of criticism. The last regime suffered by having smoke blown up its arse and having success redefined downwards. I think 6th is at least where we should be, so it's good that we're all expecting more from the new manager.

To me some people's sudden disappointment at us being 6th and not playing like Bayern Munich within seven months tells me that a lot of things have changed for the better this season.