What a load of Red Bull

I read the Austria Salzburg piece and these guys are only after a marketing vehicle, i.e. a club in the permiership and CL who can market red bull for them - everything else is not relevant for them. They don't and won't care about any history and will change everything so that the whole clube is simply a walking advert for red bull, at all times.

Every club, not just EFC, in England should tell them to do one if they come knocking. If they do end up buying a club in England, then that will be a truly sad day for English football, as that will be the beginning of the end fear. The sport has already gotten commercial enough with naming rights and strips being changed etc.

Anyway, hopefully this will turn our to be nothing but unfotunately money talks and the red bull owner is worth a few billion!

I don't think that the type of takeover you describe, would be good for Everton FC or indeed for the corporation that decided to purchase the club.

I can see a stadium being built by a corporation and leased out to the club, with all the logo's signage etc being that of the corporations rather than the club's. That may in itself be too much for some traditionalists.

Whoever buys the club - if anybody ever does - they will have to earn the trust of the fan-base over a period of time, however, whatever the initial motives of a potential buyer no-one can be sure that their ideas won't change over time.

There is no way that Bill Kenwright can assure himself or the fan-base that a potential buyer ticks all of his boxes on behalf of the club. It's a gamble that eventually will have to be taken, Bill won't be around for ever.

We obviously don't want the club to jump into bed with the first interested suitor who waves a wad of cash, but we don't want the club to be left high and dry on the shelf for the rest of its natural life either.

They would want to re-brand the whole club from top to bottom. Our appeal is our proud history, and I for one would not want this great club to be an advertising vehicle for some European soft drink manufacturer.

Of course we need more sponsorship (and new owners) but there is a limit on how much of our history we would have to sacrifice for corporate millions. This company would definitely be a bridge too far.

I would also add that the club is probably unsaleable anyway, when you look at the asking price, the many mortgages, and the long term finance & sponsorship deals that are already in place.

A great leveller for many is the consideration that, as Red Bull Everton or whatever the name would be, they could be sat watching "us" play Barcelona in the CL a few years from now or maybe even winning the PL. How long can a team live off its history before it needs to win at any cost? Will fans still be singing "if you know your history" in 20 years time if most of them have never experienced first-hand the success that the song refers to?

For those of us old enough to have seen the Club win trophies and titles the idea, once properly considered, seems abhorrent. For younger Toffees however I can see it holding real appeal. A super-rich "new Everton" with contemporary branding and the potential for on-pitch success. What would they care for the past if the future seemed so very, very bright? This is obviously what Red Bull would be banking on.

I think the reality is that (thankfully) Everton wouldn't be right for them. It would make more sense for them to buy Fulham and re-brand as London Red Bull. That would be one hell of an advert for their inexplicably popular drink. If they were to buy us then my biggest fear is that we would be renamed (gulp) Liverpool Red Bull...

I think we are all agreed that provisos need to be put in place but what power to resist change once a buyout is complete? Not much. If there is a commercially viable stadium site just outside Liverpool, then your line in the sand will move quickly enough.

But we cannot live on our history, we cannot survive indefinitely on not winning anything. Keep telling yourself we can... but we can't. Ask Burnley, Sheffield, Leeds, Blackpool, Bolton, Notts County. Is it glorious has-beens that you want our grandchildren to know us by or is it RB Everton in the Champions League?

Many worry about keeping our identity. Everton FC is already long changed from its original identity. The Everton FC I grew up with wins competitions, buys the best players or at least challenges seriously for both and did so for the first 100 years of its existence. The Everton FC we have now does not and hasn't for coming up to 20 years. THAT part of our identity is long gone. Do we want that back or is it the labels that connect us with a glorious past? The past is lovely, safe, unchanging. unchallenging – hey, we can always cling on to 'the second longest amount of time anyone has played in the top division'.

The sort of team we were now plays in the Championship (perhaps that is where some would like us to be), the game at the top has changed forever. We have yet to challenge for the Premier League. And there is only one way to win the Premier League.

Glory hunter? Perhaps there is a little of that, even after 20 years of nothing with regular doses of humiliation thrown in. Isn't getting our share of glory what all this is about? I have been lucky enough to shout 'Champions' at our team more than once, I want it for my children too.

I think we are all agreed that provisio's need to be put in place but what power to resist change once a buyout is complete? Not much. If there is a commercially viable stadium site just outside Liverpool then your line in the sand will move quickly enough.

But we cannot live on our history, we cannot survive indefinitely on not winning anything. Keep telling yourself we can but we can't. Ask Burnley, Sheffield, Leeds, Blackpool, Bolton, Notts County. Is it glorious has-beens that you want our grandchildren to know us by or is it RB Everton in the Champions League?

Many worry about keeping our identity. Everton FC is already long changed from its original identity. The Everton FC I grew up with wins competitions, buys the best players or at least challenges seriously for both and did so for the first 100 years of its existence. The Everton FC we have now does not and hasn't for coming up to 20 years. THAT part of our identity is long gone. Do we want that back or is it the labels that connect us with a glorious past? The past is lovely, safe, unchanging. unchallenging - hey we can always cling on to 'the second longest amount of time anyone has played in the top division'.

The sort of team we were now plays in the Championship (perhaps that is where some would like us to be), the game at the top has changed forever. We have yet to challenge for the Premiership. And there is only one way to win the Premiership.

Glory hunter? Perhaps there is a little of that, even after 20 years of nothing with regular doses of humiliation thrown in. Isn't getting our share of glory what all this is about? I have been lucky enough to shout 'Champions' at our team more than once, I want it for my children too.

We need a new ground and it's a shame that Kirkby never came off as Tesco were going to be the main provider of finance. They're in a mess so that's not going to happen again as an option.

We're stuck with the old ground and look at this what would we have to moan about on TW without the lack of investment?
Looking forward to Hull – it's my first game since a bad ankle break.

"Others have already brought up the sad case of Austria Salzburg. If you are not familiar with this team, please look into it right now and read about how the fans there were crushed with an arrogance usually only seen in dictators and traffic wardens"...

...
my career's teacher warned me off becoming a dictator but I did have designs on becoming a traffic warden before I finally retire - now you've ruined that dream for me.

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nl/bdodgers/brooklyn.html

As I and many have stated, anything that the luvvie says just will not happen:

NTL Fortress Sport the docklands project — is that money still ring fenced? We are stuck with him and all his cliches of "My blood runs blue" and "when I was in the Boys Pen". I feel my blue blood boil every time I see him or even hear him.

Remember when RM first arrived and he went on about he says he will get us in the Champions league! Or more distasteful his remark about feeling raped after someone went to the press about a comment he made.

The guy is not to be trusted or admired.

Yes, we may well be rebranded, but if it means being one of England's leading clubs again rather than pretending to be one, lying back on our 1980s glory days, then I'd go for it.

We need money, and if they are interested, then I'm sure Bill will lay out what his criteria is.

I don't want us to become the circus that City did for a couple of seasons. I don't want Everton to be seen in the same light as City and Chelsea who have become overnight sensations simply by throwing money about. Yes, Utd or Arsenal can and will spend 40m on one player, but both clubs have worked hard over a number of years and have earned the right to be seen as a top club. The word pedigree jumps out at me.

Only kidding...

If our name, kit colour and crest remains the same and our history honoured I would be glad of the investment...

We only need 4 or 5 quality signings to make the CL...as we all know

Of course, I understand WHY many didn't/wouldn't read the inquiry on keioc - that could have lead to facts getting in the way of uninformed alehouse-lawyer waffle.

Our history will always be there no one can change that, The problem is our trophy winning history is getting to the point where lots of blues can't even remember winning anything.

Give me investment and a PL title and champions league games against top European teams any day, I can take a name change or ground renaming we will still be Everton, we will still have the history, but me might just start winning something.

I want us to be the best team in England, and if that means being taken over by Red Bull and face possible rebranding, then that's fine.

I don't like the fact we have been kidding ourselves for 20 years that we are one of the biggest clubs in the country, and the reality is that we aren't, and probably won't be for some time yet without investment.

I mean, even Southampton have had investment. The last time they won anything was in 1976.

I know what I'd prefer, even if we were rebranded.

This "Oh, we can't get taken over by them because it's got 'red' in the name" is pathetic and childish.

I'm with Thomas Lennon: we need to move with the times as history is history and we can't keep living in the past. Do Man City fans yearn for days of Peter Swailes to be back?

I don't care who own us as long as they put us back where we should be. Kenwright has been with us for years, it's time for a change, sadly I don't think it's coming.

Do you see what I mean?

We were successful, we were one of the best teams in this country, we still think we are, but we won't be until we bite the bullet and get rid of Kenwright and move forward.

Possibly I'm in the minority and possibly that since I've seen the great team of the early sixties I look at things differently. It pisses me off to hear about the only way forward is to sell our soul. Why should we?? Too many people have been brainwashed into believing we are some sort of small team.... What the fuck!!

Why is it every time we speak of takeover the first thing brought up is a new stadium that somehow appears to cost between £100 million and £5 trillion!!

We don't need a trillionaire or some arseholes like Red Bull! What we need is proper management working to a proper long term plan

If we could get the money with a stadium name change and a partially changed club name, I would swallow it.

If what happened to Salzberg happens to us, I would find it very hard to take this. How could I still call myself an Everton fan if the club was called Red Bull Merseyside, how could I not be embarrassed by the 'razzamatazz' and the pyrotecnics and the extreme sports merchandising.

The thing is though, football fans are some of the most fickle people on the planet. If Red Bull Merseyside suddenly won two league titles in a row and a couple of domestic cups, would my interest in the club suddenly come back to me?

Another thing is that if we don't do something soon, we are going to become an over-achieving mid table club in all senses of the word. We really can live off reputation, history and past glories for so long before it just becomes pathetic. The level of debt, operating at a loss year upon year and the cost of a stadium are genuine concerns for fans, even if we can't agree on figures. Investment will become more and more of a pipe dream the bigger the debt, the longer we operate at a loss and the older the stadium gets. Sooner or later, it will take something drastic to drag us back up to where we belong. Red Bull Merseyside may not be that far away.

I don't think for a moment that this deal will happened but if it did then every supporter(supporter, not Evertonian) who entered the Red Bull arena would with every chant be a willing participant in a cynical, commercial destruction of what, for many, is more than a trophy acquiring machine for providing boasting rights.

The long predicted death of this club hasn't happened yet. There's a way to go and much to happen before our decline is terminal. Red Bull could kill us much more quickly.

In my view there is much, much more to being a football supporter than gloating over expensively purchased silverware.

I'm sure the rebranding isn't high on the list. The chief exec or whoever it was said they wanted to take over an English club to get them in the Champions League.

Why would they waste money on rebranding when they could spend it on an new stadium and players.

Bill would make that quite clear if a deal materialised.

Obviously it's very different with Everton. Even if they agreed not to mess with the name/crest, they would still splash the red bull logo across the shirt, which just wouldn't mesh well with royal blue. But that's a small price to pay, I guess.

Those who understand need no explanation. Those who don't understand don't matter... Red Bull doesn't matter and neither does their money.

Does Destination Kirkby ring a bell?? Bill came in as a mercenary and please don't be surprised if he leave as one!

Why would any short-term investor – and I mean Red Bull – want to spend any sort of cash improving the infrastructure of the Club when they can weigh in with mega millions in the short-term to gain great exposure then move on?

The only way forward is long-term structure and planning. Any business worth it's salt (a) believes in itself and (b) goes into it in the long term with honesty and credibility. Sadly lacking in our circumstances, I'm afraid.

Regarding other comments, Kirkby would have been a wrong turn in our history (I voted NO). King's Dock was the missed opportunity and still brings me out in a cold sweat to this day.

We are a great club that seemingly lacks a vision. Perhaps BK has even rejected a few "offers" from potential suitors based on them being unsuitable (i'm quickly donning a tin hat after that comment but who knows?)

(On another tangent, I was on the phone to a Sheffield United mate of mine last night and I came off feeling like a big time Charlie - so it's all relative. I told him we were having a crap season too as we're only 7th in the Prem and might only be 4th on Saturday night. Can't wait tip this international shite is out if the way and back to the proper stuff).

Like all leagues there would only be 4-5 contenders for the title and therefore a game between for example, Anderlect and Lazio would be turned into a meaningless pre season game with nothing at stake.

Compare that to our domestic league in which practically every team has got something to play for until the final game.

A European super league is a (non-football loving)bean counters dream, and hopefully will never see the light of day.

However, I have just had a vision of football in 25 years time, when the top 4 of the EPL reads "1. Red Bull Rotherham, 2. McDonalds Mansfield, 3. Coca-Cola Colchester, 4. Nike Northampton", all playing in packed-out 80,000 all-seater intergalactic stadiums, while we look on (years after Bill has taken us into administration), and think "that could have been us".

People like to cite Cardiff as a precedent. Fine, but they're now playing in the Premier League. In red. Is that not better than playing in the Champo (or worse) in blue? Wouldn't it still be sweet to see Ross Barkley lift the Champs League trophy wearing a royal blue shirt even if he was wearing red shorts?

I am not saying it would be ideal, but it is a question you need to ask yourself if you're going to dismiss a possible chance at Everton FC finally getting the financial muscle they've lacked for over 20 years.

Second, an excellent and well written article - some might say a brilliant debut!

You make an excellent impassioned plea. However . . .

I must say that Scott 447 and Thomas 454 put up excellent thought provoking posts.

However, like John 480, I go back a long way and the history is hugely important to me as it will be to many others and the sort of takeover Dom speaks of is not for my liking one bit.

However, it is a long time since we've seen a piece of silverware and maybe times they are a changin'

Ross, how much of the club could you amputate and still follow the "Everton" Red Bulls? Is there a line the rebranding shouldn't cross?

This is 99% true but there is one factor that it doesn't take into consideration.

Us.

Or more accurately our response to what KIND of takeover it might be.

Because as powerful as the money men are, we would, at least theoretically, actually have it in OUR hands to dictate terms.

How?

Well let's imagine the very worst.

Bill flogs us to Red Bull and our new owners immediately announce the following.

"Goodison will now be the Red Bull Arena, Everton FC will become Red Bull Everton and though the shirts will stay blue, they'll be Red Bull blue worn with red shorts and red socks'

Question, what happens if 36,000 say 'I'm staying away until they've fucked off or given us our identity back'?

The Red Bull totally empty arena?

I said theoretically, because in practice Everton supporters (generally) have shown they are prepared to put up with and swallow all sorts of shite, but the fact remains if they/we were organised and prepared to threaten and BACK our threats, we might find we actually have a bit more power than we think.

Remember, when 22500 said 'stick that beehive badge up your arse!' an apology was issued and redesigns began.

Everton supporters taking REAL action in the face of a 'hostile' takeover is improbable, but NOT impossible.

A cliché I know, but without the supporters, there really is..nothing.

Here's a thought. what will stop the supporters of, say, Burton Albion, stop going|? Are they better supporters than us? Have we some sort of right to have higher aspirations?

In my view, to aspire is an end in itself.

That said, I would not only agree with your concern but add a point previously unmentioned here... Red Bull's overpowering takeover at Salzburg roughly mirrors what they did in New York. The team name, color, crest and branding were completely changed. The old MetroStars didn't have what any European team would consider tradition, but Red Bull did come in like a Bull in a china shop and break everything up.

Red Bull isn't stupid... and I can't believe they'd be foolish enough to try this sledgehammer approach with Everton... but I'm with the consensus here that lots of conditions would have to be attached to any investment by this company.

I would want a similar type of takeover as Man City had but I think, no matter who comes along, it will take a long time to find the right buyer.

Let's have Man Utd supporters delight in Kenwright, Green, and them and we suffer the Glazers... I'm ready to take my chances.

What we lack, and have done for a fair few years before the start of the PL, is leadership and vision, from those in charge.

The one opportunity we truly had, was missed, as a certain someone did not want to give up his toy...

A viable business plan could allow us to have the funds to pump into the team. The success this could/ would bring, would allow us to redevelop the stadium.

As some have mentioned, all that is needed is a long term plan. Currently the only plan Everton have is to sell anything not nailed down, to stop the banks from "killing us" NSNO.

Seeing as there's nobody else that we are aware of queueing up to take us over (and this might well be a "creative post by a hack,) it's Red Bull who are supposedly in the frame.

Personally, I think we need a takeover to bring us anywhere near a level playing field with the teams we aspire to challenge, for European and Domestic honours.

Red Bull though? Well, its scary, having read some of the posts on here about their previous foray into club ownership.

From what I read, it was mentioned that they might be looking for a club who would be challenging for the Champions League and our name was mentioned along with Liverpool's, as likely candidates. Liverpool of course, would be eminently suited to a name change. "Red Bull" is what they're full of.

I'd love us to be taken over. Especially as Man City were, or even a big Company who had pots of money and were prepared to invest plenty of it.

And I'd love the shower we have in charge now, to be booted out and give this club a chance to grow.

I wouldn't fancy Red Bull though, as I can't see them dropping the name and the logo, which is after all, their company symbol.

I agree with Andy above, that we need a business plan but, we'll never get one with this crew. We'd also need a lot of money to put those plans into fruition.

So come on Arab sheiks, get down to Goodison and get shut of
"Blue Bull."

PS,

Linda. Where did you get the idea Tesco were going to be the major investors in the new stadium?

I understand we can't just have anybody taking over the Club; "Be careful what you wish for", etc. I wasn't in when Kenwright and them took over, but I'd bet many, many supporters were happy when they did. And here we are. It's not so much about Red Bull.

We need an ambitious group to run the Club. One that understands a club makes the most money when it wins. In Red Bull's case, the club in the most-watched league on earth winning. And what that means for Red Bull being known around the planet. All because some football club, they own, wins.

If it's Red Bull or any other, I don't care. We need an alternative to what we have now. I'm ready to take my chances.