Why we should embrace Bobby

Roberto Martinez is a football manager. On the basis of 20 games (seven friendlies and 13 that mattered), he appears to be a very good one. I like his style, am absolutely amazed by almost clairvoyant ability to substitute, and wish him the very best of success.

But I find it a likely overstatement that Martinez' players all "love" him (if they all respect him, that's triumph enough in this modern era), and the fact is that his own "love" for Everton is transitory. He is a football manager, and like all football managers not named Sir Alex, he will (if successful) move on at some point for more money or a greater opportunity. They all do.

We are all behind him, Toby. Even those who criticize him. We all want him to succeed in spectacular fashion.

But as to thanking God for him... I'm not sure that even the most prayerful Everton fans would go quite that far in their devotions.

I do think however that his methods, tactics and thinking are not those of a manager destined to take a club like ours to win things, and I would be almost certain that he is not destined for anywhere near the kind of success at Utd that their fans have become accustomed to. Quite simply the guy is a safety-first manager who does not trust his players and he will buckle under the weight of expectation.

Quite simply, if you are going to win anything, you need to believe you're good enough. If you start talking your players down and your chances down, you will always underperform.

As has been said in many other threads, Roberto's reign so far has been imperfect. Lots of possession, but drawing too many games we could've won. However, like you, I see a long term positive vision in what he's trying to achieve.

I really like his attitude that a lack of money need not hold us back and that he doesn't want us to be in awe of whomever we play. I also think his attitude to developing and using young players will pay serious dividends in the medium/long term for us.

Its that kind of attitude and long term planning that wins you trophies and gets the players playing their best football. I take exception to fans who think this transition period should be smooth; that would be great, but is ultimately an unreasonable expectation of a new manager, with a new coaching staff, vastly different methods and strategy who is trying to integrate a bunch of new players and give our raw teenagers a chance to develop.

Overall I've been very impressed with what he's trying to achieve with us. I think he could be a great manager for us and take us to the next level. We just need to have a bit of belief in what he's trying to achieve and give him and the team our support during these early stages.

But the Premier League is a rich list in which we feature half-way down. So, when we get a bad run (which we will) and finish out of the European places (which we will), I hope the fans keep the faith.

Wigan murdered us in the cup and beating Man City in the final was a triumph of minnow's tactics and guts over millionaires' swaggering entitlement. And we have the man who plotted it all. Aren't we lucky? Yes!

Kenwright didn't agree with me and now we have him, so I for one will get behind him and the team. It's plain to see that our back four are struggling with the new ethos especially with a target man like Lukaku an easy option for a long punt upfield; when and how Bobby resolves that will tell me how good he ultimately will be for us.

So far, so good... but a testing time from now till after Christmas; a win and a positive attitude in the derby would be very nice indeed.

As for 'embracing Bobbie'- yuk! If he does better than Moyes, he'll be a fucking hero, if worse a detested villain.

He's a bloody football manager not a partner to love and cherish. He's like them all – here for the money – see him in that light and you won't get hurt.

Embrace him? You'll be screaming obscenities at him if we lose the derby!

There are a mere handful who go after Martinez, we could all name them, but overall even those who were strongly appreciative of Moyes have happily got on board with the new Everton and new manager.

Lukaku, Barry, McCarthy, Barkley with money available and within shouting distance of the top of the table, it's madness to be any other way.

Speed will come with practice and perhaps one or two changes but Martinez has done great.

Still hard to believe in his first season some appear to be waiting for Martinez to have a bad spell to put the boot right in – peculiar support that.

Last season Moyes was getting criticised after every game, now we have the exact same record, apart from less goals scored, and you are thanking God?

He's our manager, we stand behind him, that's what us fans do... but this over-the-top stuff is, to be blunt, quite pathetic.

We are as boring to watch this season as last, we are scoring less goals and it looks like our best player is about to be off.

Yeah, fucking thank God eh?

He will end up being as dour as Davey, as he will realise that he will not be getting any backing from the board and will have to sell his best players year on year to satisfy the fuckwit running the club.

I want his "philosophy" to come to fruition, but he needs to bend with the wind too. If tikka-takka is not working, as it hasn't the last two games, then change tactics and sometimes go direct. That doesn't mean hoofing the ball, it means moving the ball up the pitch at more speed than an arthritic 90-year-old with a walker.

Can you really say it's just about the money for him? I don't see how you can conclude that.The true test of course if the results over the next year or two, but I for one am happy to embrace him as our manager right now. Maybe I'm just an naive optimist, but rather that than a cynic.

Nothing much has changed yet, I know it is early days, but we are having posts to rejoice at the altar of Martinez, when he's done nothing out of the ordinary......yet!

Nothing to love about Martinez yet.

Can someone explain why battle lines are seemingly being drawn with some of our support after the new man has had only a few months in charge?

Honestly, I'm baffled.

It's not as if we are in the bottom half of the League, as we were more often than not under the last regime. I hate to think what the tone would be on here if that was the case.

I just find it a little early to be praising Martinez as the "One", seeing as we have nothing different to last year....as I said, yet!

The "Just because it's not Moyes", doesn't do it for me I'm afraid.

Nothing was said too much about Moyes, as he came in to a shite side on the slide and not much was expected of him. There is a great deal more expectation and pressure for Martinez, as we all want him to be the one to push us that bit further and win us something.

The tone probably would have matched the same as last season Kevin, moaning about all the draws.

Moyes was good for Everton but I lost count of the number of fans I know from other clubs who would refuse to watch Everton games on TV because of their dour style. I've spent many an hour arguing our case but ultimately I agreed with them.

We had some great performances under Moyes and some truly awful ones. I remember getting hammered one December by Bolton at Goodison. I remember a Christmas break that featured Villa hammering us at Villa Park and then the RS putting three past us. I also recall Moyes's Everton with Wayne Rooney et al finishing 4th from bottom with the lowest points tally in our history.

I wish people would stop putting OFM on some kind of pedestal. Colin Harvey got us in the top 4 and to an FA Cup Final and was sacked unceremoniously.

On Moyes, after final home game in his 9 game stint of 01-02...

"For the second home game in succession the players were, quite rightly, booed off the park. Also for the second home match in succession Moyes resisted the temptation to ring the changes.

Despite having so many attacking players on the pitch we never attacked with any sense of purpose or conviction. Even into the dying minutes and despite being only one goal behind there was no sense of urgency. Summed up the overall performance really.

Despite being implored to stay by our overly verbose stadium announcer, I really didn't feel like staying and applauding our underperforming team. A performance like today's just kicks the hope and optimism out of you. Two home games ago we were all hopeful and buoyant. The Leicester and Blackburn games have nipped that particular bud of optimism. In a sense maybe that's as well, this has been a dreadful season, and now that the boost of a new manager has been dissipated, we shouldn't forget that we are left with a mediocre squad that has been struggling for a long time. We are probably finishing the season on the right note."

And on Moyes after 11 games of 02-03...

"As a team, we are performing, at last, at a level greater than the sum of our parts. Credit for that goes to Moyes, who — more than anything — has completely transformed the mood of the Club. We know he hates to lose and wants to win. For him, 'nil satis nisi optimum', actually means something.

We now go to Leeds where we surely have our best chance of a win in many years. Moyes, we can be sure, will have no time for stories of 'bogey' grounds and will send the team out to win the game. How different from Smith, who seemed to go to places like Elland Road simply trying to contain the margin of defeat. I'm not yet brave enough to predict a win; I don't think we'll lose though, and that would be progress. Come on you Blues!"

What I draw from this, If anything, is the manager 'getting' the club' argument will inevitably come down to how successful you view their time in charge. And... well, a manager is only as good as his latest run of results.

Moyes out! No, wait, Martinez out.. erm, whatever... we all want a win this weekend so, come on you Blues!

We now have a new young manager with a long term plan for future success and I will hopefully enjoy the way it all unfolds, bearing in mind his admiration of Barcelona, Bielsa and the John Toshack youth system.

This youth system is already underway with Dennis Lawrence brought in to liaise between all the different groups and earmark those youngsters who are extra comfortable with the new strategy. Eventually, after honing their skills with Sheedy and co, they will move on to Stubbs and Unsworth who will work on their maturity and mental strength.

As for the main squad. We're sitting higher than I expected but the Palace game was a massive disappointment. They wanted it more than we did and that cannot be allowed. This is why Martinez wants players of the right character, There were too many out there who didn't fancy it.

Let's hope they return from the international break fit, well and ready to go. Judging by the second half performances against Chelsea and Spurs, we're a match for anyone when we put it all in and I believe Martinez will have them all up for the tasks which lie ahead. If they are not putting it all in he will pull them off early, and they know it.

Again though another post gets derailed with the arguments about Moyes. He left us to go to the Mancs and has turned into a right prick.

He is no longer worthy of our discussion, he is the enemy. Lets focus on Martinez, his good AND his bad points....because every manager has them.

A perspective I hadn’t considered. Everton players of the last 3-4 years lacking character.

And Roberto gets a free pass for how he sent our boys out to play Palace with tails tucked. Interesting.

'I'm really up for this game, totally 110% and I'll fight tooth and nail by holding position and passing to Garreth Barry',

Barca, Arsenal or whoever, would out thought the opposition, not out fort to victory. Thanks goes to Clive Tydlesly for that genius.

I also agree that games against the likes of Palace tell us far more about the character of the team than games against the more glamorous clubs - remember Oldham, Wigan, Reading et al all in recent memory and every season for many years they have shown this destructive trait.

Managers no matter how good; shouldn't have to motivate a team to play in the correct way or to make them run about for each other - it should be a given and I bet RM was as annoyed and shocked as we were with the teams performance at Selhurst Park.

To feel the need to defend him, and I understand why you do, typifies the appalling quick fix attitude of the Premier League. We are well short of half way through the season and I am baffled as to why there have been, on others threads, talk of relegation in the future . Give the man the same chance David Moyes got.

"If tikka-takka is not working, as it hasn't the last two games, then change tactics and sometimes go direct. That doesn't mean hoofing the ball, it means moving the ball up the pitch at more speed than an arthritic 90-year-old with a walker."

I don't believe Martinez wants us to play slow football and let the opposition get 11 behind the ball before we try to work it forward. Its just our players are struggling for form and perhaps failing to adapt to what he wants as quickly as we want.

Roberto has a long-term vision. He and his methods are new to our players. If after 2 games things aren't "working", then Martinez should absolutely not throw his core philosophy out the window and go more direct. He should simply work with the players to get them playing his style of football more effectively.

Football is a results business, but I'd be happy to finish mid-table this year and let the players really absorb and learn Martinez's way of playing football if it means that longer term we're better placed to challenge for a champions league spot.

As Roberto said, money is no barrier to success, but things just take longer. I think we need to be patient and personally I'm happy to buy into his vision and give the guy at least a couple of years to get us playing really well, as opposed to just a couple of games.

I hate to make comparisons with the RS, but they were a laughing stock last year trying to play the way Rodgers wanted them to and being near the bottom of the league, but they're really clicking this season. Sometimes fans need to be patient for the right kind of progress.

If you didn't know our League position - strangers would think we were in the bottom three with these calls to back the manager.

The manager has also stated he thinks we have the capacity to match the moneyed elite, once we come to terms with the changes he wants to make. Shouldn't we be happy with this ambition?

Jurgen Klopp has done an "exceptional" job at Dortmund. When Herr Klopp took the reigns at Dortmund five years ago, Dortmund were in a worse state than us: little money, poor squad... The youth system was Klopp's first priority, a template high on Señor Bobby's agenda.

Dortmund are proof that it is possible in the modern era to assemble a talented squad without an owner with more money than brain cells. Let's give Roberto time; we could be the next Dortmund.

When trying to think of any negatives about his time in charge so far, I think it is the number of times I have heard the term "DNA" used in a footballing context since he joined.

Other than that minor issue, I think he's the man!

His predecessor set the bar in terms of overall achievement high. He has inherited a very decent squad, which has admittedly lost one of its star performers, but he has spent a reported £34M on bolstering this season!! (McCarthy £13M, Kone £6M, Lukaku £6M, Barry £6M)

Whilst you could argue that the loan signings don't count as their fees cover mainly wages, there will be no sell on value for these players, so they are an outgoing cost. There is no way Everton would sign a player on Barry's wages normally. So in many ways he is correct in stating that lack of funds isn't an issue, as he has spent more in one window than Moyes ever did, offset by selling one of the most valuable assets, and an amazing piece of business getting £5 million for Vic!!

I am not trying to advocate Moyes here. His time is over, and rightly so. Even if he hadn't had the Man Utd job lined up it was probably time for something different. But Martinez has taken a job that sees him in charge of one of British footballs biggest and most successful club in a relatively healthy position on the pitch. He has spent big by Everton standards and brought in a more patient style that has the potential to bring exciting times in the future, but I think it is fair for fans to be able to highlight areas that are frustrating or baffling, as it is for fans to highlight the positives of the new style.

Yes he is being judged fairly harshly (although relegation fears are a little over the top) but he has made a big step up from Wigan and expectations at this club are high. Nil Statis Nisi Optimum.

That said I'm now a supported of RM, and he gives us probably the best chance of exceeding what Moyes did in the premier league. It's a tough ask to get into the top six these days. With Spurs and Man City now able to spend big RM has a harder job, certainly than than Moyes early years in putting us into CL placings. He will be doing well to get us top six, and top four would be incredible. Good luck to the lad. I really don't get the criticism of him. He's not able to buy the best players so what are people really expecting him to do?

I think you've applying some double standards if you count wages in the "money spent" column for Martinez and then fail to count what he saved on wages from selling felli/anichebe or what Moyes spent on wages for his loan signings....and to be frank I'm happy spending £70k on players of the calibre of Barry and Lukaku rather than spend £20k on McFadden/Straq

While Barry might not have any resale value, he's also available for free at the end of the season and we'd be in pole position to take him if he does well.

You're also correct in stating that Martinez is required to improve on what Moyes did for us, but you fail to acknowledge that sometimes you need to take a step back to move forwards. Getting used to a new system and bedding in new players means that the transition is bound not to be smooth.

Yes I understand that there were loan fee previously, though I cannot believe they were of the level of these two. The wages saved could also be set against the wages of Macarthy, Kone, Roubles & Alcaraz as well, so over all I think the cost of the loans would stand aside from the wage gains. Only fella would have been on significant wages anyway. The point was more that significant money has actually been spent. I did not set out to defend the previous manager simply to make the point that the new one has taken over in vastly different circumstances and should be judged on his achievements in a different context, as should Moyes I his new role compared to Ferguson, but thats for utd fans to discuss!

As for your last sentence, I have more than covered my opinions on that in other threads, but in short I appreciate what has been done so far and acknowledge that this is not the finished article. But also I would like to see the ball moved forward with urgency, I don't think many would disagree with that suggestion? I have not levied any serious criticism at Martinez, just stated that expectations of him are justifiably high, and at this point of the season he is doing well.

What a malicious waste of cyber-ink.

We got rid of Phil Neville on £50k / week, Hitzlsperger and Mucha neither of whom would've been cheap.

I'd be surprised if we're now spending any more on wages than we did previously. Loan fee's I think were payable for Lukaku (£3M) and Deulofeu (not sure how much but probably ~£1M depending on appearances).

The loan signings that Martinez has made have taken us to a new level and provided real first team quality, whereas the loan signings we were paying for previously added nothing other than bench warmers.

As for the balance of wages yes there will be a balance of sorts, but the basis of my point remains the same! Barry's wages were believed to be 100% of his Man City agreement, £6.5 million a year. I believe Lukaku's fee was supposed to be around £6 million. So yeah, no loan fee for Barry, but a committed cost of £6 million with no potential return, or even an assurance that we have "first refusal", he could go to Stoke if they offer him more!

The point remains he has had a decent kitty, all be it at the expense of one of the better performers in the team. He has done well with that money (well, with the loans. I cant agree that Kone was worth it, and Alcaraz was injured in the first place) and those players have overall balanced the squad better. So in a sense we are saying similar things, except you are not inclined to believe the players cost anything?

Again I ask you, where exactly have I made it sound as if any of the signings (Kone & Alcaraz excepted) represent either bad value or do not add to the team?

1) Some Evertonians rubbished RM's record at Wigan – yes, they got relegated, but do you honestly think that the likes of Ferguson, Wenger and Mourinho could've done better on one of the smallest transfer budgets in the Premier League?

I know that Ferguson and Mourinho have stacks of trophies to their name... but say Ferguson had stayed at Aberdeen and Mourinho at Porto – could both have maintained the same level of success at those clubs? Yes, the aformentioned guys are talented managers – but a £100m transfer budget does help!

2) Yes, Wigan struggled in the Premier League. It's been mentioned several times that RM had the backing of his Chairman, but he also had the backing of the Wigan fans. Not many managers of clubs that are struggling could've said that. At no time can I recall the Wigan fans turning against him – I think that speaks volumes.

3) It's been mentioned that RM has inherited a good team – but Moyes has inherited a title winning team and a multi million pound transfer budget as well. Which one of the two has been doing the better job do you think?

Time will tell on that one and for different reasons – as I have been telling friends who follow Man United – Moyes needs to be given time. All new managers need to be given time to establish themselves at their new clubs.

4) Everton as the new Borussia Dortmund?? Yes, please. However, the success of Dortmund hasn't occurred overnight. They had great trophy success in the late 1990s but then nearly went bankrupt!! They have had some mid-table seasons in the early 2000s but in the last 5 years they have established themselves as a force. I think that's largely been a case of sensible signings and developing their own players rather than mega signings.

5) With regard to Moyes, a fact that seems to have been forgotten is that he has yet to win a game at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge or The Emirates. I make that approx 44 games in 11 seasons. Any thoughts on that?

Like all Evertonians I hope RM is successful as Everton manager. But let's give him time before we start to pass judgement.

Jim, I never accused you of saying anything, but I'm making the point that if overall we are paying higher salaries than last season(and I'm not convinced we are), then we're clearly getting higher quality players who actually make a difference to our game, rather than expensive bench warmers.

I'm also fairly sure you're wrong on Lukaku's fee. The information in the public domain when we got him pointed to a £3m fee, + wages. As for Barry, he was on about £100k / week at city, but everything I read at the time said we were only paying a portion of that:

For example:

http://www.givemesport.com/381780-gareth-barry-can-be-evertons-key-man

I've always said we need to be open about moving on players if big bids come in. Moyes did it several times with Lescott and Rooney and was able to improve the squad. For the £33M that Martinez generated through the sales of Anichebe and Fellaini, he had all of 1 hour to spend any of it, so I'll be interested in who he looks to buy in January and next summer.

As far as getting in players with character, I’m all for that. I just feel we’ve had those kind of players.

Regarding, "Managers no matter how good; shouldn’t have to motivate a team to play in the correct way or to make them run about for each other - it should be a given and I bet RM was as annoyed and shocked as we were with the teams performance at Selhurst Park". Oh boy.

Picture some wording 180 degrees from that, and you have my opinion on any manager’s primary responsibility.

Or, God Forbid, this weekend sees the 12th straight game we haven’t witnessed a single 90-minute display of effort from the team. Well, you and few others can keep calling for "patience", I’ll be pissed. At our manager.

Most of those gave him years of service, and regards Rooney, he managed to piss him off with hours of Head Tennis!!! So much for being "in the shit" as Jim Harrison says...

Martinez inherited an ageing squad where most players e.g. Osman, Distin, Hibbert and Pienaar had all seen better days, and Anichebe, Naismith, Jelavic etc were shit and he had to use major surgery in his first few months, while Moyes only added Yobo and Li Tie (who was forced on him by sponsors but turned out to be very useful – more luck for DM) to achieve stability. Moyes was lucky again to be given the PL Champions, but doesn't seem to know what to do with them, whereas we are looking okay with Roberto. COYB

By 'character', I don't mean that the players will lay their bodies on the line and block every ball in and around their own penalty area; I mean that they should have the bottle and ruthlessness to attack with purpose and desire.

I wouldn't expect any manager to walk into Goodison and instill that overnight – David Moyes couldn't and he was here for 11 years and in the end he decided to leave, which has given Roberto the opportunity to address the problem, but it will take at least 12 months not 11 matches. BTW how many 90-minute displays have we seen in the last five years?

Mike Gaynes – Seems you've become an authority on Everton since your pre-season pictures of Everton in the USA, It's a short, cheap flight. Get yourself on one and get to the Old Lady, sample the atmosphere, feel the pleasure and the pain........ Oh sorry, is that a STH picking on someone who's never been near the ground? Watching on TV doesn't cost you a ton (that's £100) that taking yourself and two teenagers to GP every home game does, show your commitment, we can all watch it for nothing mate!

Doesn't make you less of Evertonian but certainly doesn't make you more of an authority. Look forward to buying you a beer.

How was anyone supposed to go to Old Trafford and win, if you were shit scared to even turn up at your masters house wearing some denim? (unless they were hot pants!)

Give me the likes of Benitez any day, who wanted to take whiskey-nose on at his own game.

All this deferential bollocks we heard about after he had left made me want to puke.

Well said, the lack of talent Moyes inherited was never as bad as some portray.

Reality kicked in during that period no longer were we at the top table and a short term cutting of our cloth accordingly was the order of the day.

The appointment of a complete unknown demonstrated the point but unfortunately the short term fix became a stagnant 11 years.

Bobby has added to this, evolving it further.

But he inherited a team in 6th rather than one in the lower reaches of the division. That unfortunately is an irrefutable fact.

Let's say that Flynn's understanding of what he calls 'soccer' and our beloved Blues is – in US university terms – C-minus.

1981-82 1-3 defeat at Anfield 1-3 defeat at Goodison
1982-83 0-5 defeat at Goodison 0-0 draw at Anfield.

Howard Kendall is rightly revered and held in high esteem by Evertonians, a good job we didn't judge him solely on results in the Derby match?! Glad that we didn't make those matches a "defining" moment in HK's Everton career!!

Just a thought... patience may not be in fashion now – I'm very glad that back in 1983 we seemed to have more of it!! Perhaps we need to get back to that way of thinking?

Think you made that "not important" guff up.

RM said it affects the rate of progress it doesn't take Einstein to realise if not having enough to stand still means you eventually go backwards – exactly what happened at Wigan.

Let's give it to Martinez if he doesn't win on Saturday.

You post an article on TW, expect it to be slated, hope for some praise. Only he didn't slate it, he probably agrees with much of it.

You say people should embrace Martinez. But no one 'should' do anything and certainly not because you say so, whether or not you spawned two teenagers (congratulations).

Unfortunately, your rebuttal serves only to weaken an already-spurious hit-piece, partially due to the fact that Moyes (sadly) never gave you a big hug & kiss when you met him, and that he wasn't in bed with the media.

I don't recall Catterick being especially effusive towards the press...I also remember Walter's crashingly-dull, weekly lamentations with a shudder.

Smith may well have been a decent guy, but when it comes to judging him, that's a complete irrelevance when the man was so bereft of ideas that he signed David Ginola, and put Steve Watson up front.

Essentially, you're appraising Gaffers by personality rather than performance... and that's about as cosmetic as it gets.

By your own prose, you despise Moyes despite him spending 11 years of his life over-hauling 15 years of wretched decline. For me, that lacks any grace whatsoever. The only thing you & I agree on is the title; Martinez, like Moyes, has my full-throated support.

Let's give him a couple of seasons before we give him it one way or another. Beating the Sky 4 plus the RedShite would be helpful!

What’s also not confusing is my insisting that the team going hard for 90 minutes has everything to do with the manager.

It's fair to say that Moyes did an excellent job in securing a high position most years, and it's going to be very difficult for Roberto to better his achievements, especially in the short term, I think most of us know this.

Again to state the obvious, money buys success in the Prem. and we are way below the top teams in that league. Apart from the club changing ownership, our only other option is for us to produce our own top class young players, but that isn't going to be easy; every club is trying to do the same.

In my opinion, Roberto is the right man to attempt to take this club forward, it's going to be a monumental task, but if anyone can on our current budget, it's RM — the least we can do is to support him for a year or two!

That said, it is quite entertaining reading the lame 'Yes he should be given time but..' preambles before the ADHD-level impatience kicks in.

It's like reading..

"I am a very reasonable, stable, calm individual, but FUCKWANKARSEOFF!!! (falls on deck weeping).

1) 1980-81 Gordon Lee's last season
2-2 at Goodison and 0-1 at Anfield in the League
2-1 at Goodison in the FA Cup

2) 2001-02 Walter Smith's last season
1-3 at Goodison and 1-1 at Anfield

What does that prove you say ? Well perhaps not making the Derby Match a defining moment would be a start. Walter Smith actually managed a victory at Anfield - more than David Moyes managed with superior players. Of course overall David Moyes was a better Everton manager.

The Derby will be a big test, but not a defining moment. Even an Everton victory which I hope will be the outcome would not alter my opinion. I think it's far too early to talk in terms of defining moments. We may not like the idea of patience - but as I mentioned before thank goodness patience was shown to Howard Kendall. We like to sing " If you know your History......" Well let's learn from that history of ours.Give Martinez time!!!

Martinez is our manager and he's at least trying to change our boring system to something resembling football. He needs time to build a team that can play the way he wants and to replace the ageing squad he inherited, and he's not being helped by our previous boss unsettling his players and some fans giving him a hard time.

I hope the derby atmosphere is positive, despite the early KO, and we can all be a bit more patient with a man who's proved he can win trophies and play attractive football with lesser clubs than Everton.