Attacking prowess endlessly frustrated

I will be happy for a win today no matter who gets on the scoresheet, but if either, or the luxury of both scoring would definitely be the icing on the cake, and make a statement to the Prem. that we are back!

Hope I am not in Â’Cloud Cuckoo LandÂ’ but see no reason why, with that team, we canÂ’t.

COYB

3 points for the lads today..

Bit worried itÂ’s a return to the beginning of the season when the emphasis was wrong and he was over loading it attacking.

I guess we will find out! CanÂ’t say we ainÂ’t going for the three points, thatÂ’s for sure.

Pretty subdued game of football so far, no real atmosphere no real tempo or pace to our play or the game yet, you could arguably say the first quarter has been the season in a nutshell so far this season, slow passing and a potential long term injury .

I am disappointed at times the way we rarely show our class in these type of games, we seem to just get embroiled in a battle when we donÂ’t need to.

The attacking players we have should be putting some more pressure on a poor defence that Sunderland have.

Hate to say it but Lukaku is letting Brown bully him a bit too much the last 10 minutes or so.

We donÂ’t look good going forward, these are basically shit and there forthe taking but we are too slow and ponderous again.

IÂ’d be disappointed if we donÂ’t win this.

Christ is it impossible for us to get through a game without us losing a player for weeks??

This is a must-win, I hope Bobby puts a rocket up them at half time!!

Shite referee, shite performance against a shite team and, to end a shite day day, Barry breaks his leg.

Lukaku??? 㿈 million really eh Roberto?

"we play attacking football, exciting football" Do we really??

Load of shite, we wonÂ’t get near a top four challenge playing this slow mundane crap week-in & week-out.

You just know when we are going to flop, several good results means that we follow with a pudding of a performance like this one.

We were smooth in a lot of what we did but I never felt confident. This is what blights us and has done for years and we have to get over it.

"Give him time", "heÂ’s only young"... ThatÂ’s his 3rd season in the Prem and if anything heÂ’s getting worse!

㿈 million hasnÂ’t bought us a great deal, Costa was only 㿌M!!!!

As many have said, we are boring to watch and I am sure the players can’t be enjoying this style of football, as every passing game gets worse. I thought maybe the way we started against Lille with good attacking intent that maybe the philosophy had changed... but no – back to boring possession football with hardly any attacking intent.

16 shots today 7 on target, on another day itÂ’s 3 points

If thatÂ’s the result of great coaching and insight then give me a clown as coach any day.

Fed up with all this hype about great coaching etc if this is the end result!

DonÂ’t start on about playing in Europe. This just isnÂ’t good enough.

Time to get a grip and start playing.

IÂ’ve already booked flights to the UK and plan on going to the Man City game. If this is what I have to look forward to I might make a detour and watch Scunthorpe United instead!

Howard never gets it right at free kicks, was five minutes late getting across. Barkley is so off the pace itÂ’s going to be a while before we see the best of him, not out wide either.

Take a point from a poor performance, closer to safety and 40 points and then kick on.

Absolutely maddening considering the potential on the field.

We never get goals from midfield, the return from the likes of McGeady etc is woeful. The season just hasnÂ’t got going.

ItÂ’s all well and good saying on another day all those shots would go in, trouble is we have too many days when they donÂ’t.

Unless things change we are playing for nothing other than top 10 this season. ThatÂ’s a sad but true fact, I say sad because the Premier League this year is fucking crap.

Martinez has some explaining to do. McCarthy was outstanding today... MotM by a mile.

And why was that not a red card for the penalty he was the last man?

PL referees overall are really poor and donÂ’t have the bottle for the big decisions unless itÂ’s a money club, and they make up their own rules regarding the added time.

HeÂ’s probably cost us the three points today.

I stated on another TW thread that in any sport what the top teams or individuals have to make them winners is consistency.

On that basis, I fear weÂ’re looking at a position outside the top four and possibly as low as 7th / 8th.

It’s so frustrating because there are games when our play is so faster and more inventive and more varied through the game – as in the Lille game.

Barkley had 1 really good chance in the box and failed to hit the killer ball.

Lukaku blew a gift wrapped chance from a turnover with a heavy 1st touch.

IÂ’ve posted before that Everton arenÂ’t winning scrappy games by a one goal margin (none in 11 Premier League games). Games where they have a chance to win turn into draws which keep you in the league, but donÂ’t threaten the top places.

We will miss Barry. Gibson wasnÂ’t very good. Besic is an option, but Everton are running out of top class players.

More than anything the injury bug is killing EvertonÂ’s chances of making this a special season.

I would agree with Bill in that Martinez is unwilling to drop Lukaku at present.

I understand that we have to rest players at some times but to me the manager seems to be making changes for every game and to me this is why our games since the start of the season are inconsistent.

Sometimes think Rom should have been christened Jack, to go with the lumber.

it’s got to change quickly or the fans will get bored — that’s if they are not bored stiff already.

We should be beating teams like Sunderland home and away with the so-called stars that we have. Christmas period will very much be the making or breaking of our season with a manager who hopes to make a name for himself in the Europa League rather than in the Premier League. Besic surely should be playing regularly now, whether thatÂ’s in defence or midfield.

Maybe I just donÂ’t get it.

Ever since Lukaku cut his deadlocks heÂ’s been poor, but today I donÂ’t think IÂ’ve ever seen him play so poorly. Why RM took McGeady off and not Lukaku is beyond me. Yet again, thatÂ’s another long-term injury to a key player.
Does anyone know how bad BarryÂ’s injury is?

Slow dirge-like football. We pass up so many opportunities to pass forward in order to maintain possession yet, when we get to the edge of the box, we have centre-backs trying to thread eye-of-the-needle impossible balls.

Yet again, our ridiculous keeper was beaten by another direct free kick, is he trying to set some sort of record this season, thatÂ’s three now. Poor, poor, poor. We will lose out on possible our best ever squad because we canÂ’t get out of our classic "Everton choke whenever we have a chance" mentality.

Above one of the worst ever Liverpool starts on goal difference alone, and behind Man UtdÂ’s worst ever starts. All of this with a settled squad and manager. No doubt when weÂ’ve drawn enough games and put ourselves out of contention for everything, weÂ’ll go on an amazing winning run right up until we get back in touch then weÂ’ll soil ourselves again and get beaten at home by some no-mark side like Wigan or Crystal Palace. Sometimes it feels like nothing has changed from how it was under Moyes.

Surprised he hasnÂ’t come out and said RomÂ’s touch was "phenomenal".

For sure, Roberto is struggling to get it right between Europa and the EPL, but at least you can see what he is trying to do. I donÂ’t think he is rotating the squad because Â’that is what managers feel they have to doÂ’, as some here have suggested, but because he wants to make sure that the squad is kept as fresh as possible while maintaining an optimum level of results.

We should have done much better in the league, but the league is just unbelievably unstable right now – Villa got off to a flyer, but are now 2 points off the relegation zone, Newcastle were in the relegation places, but they are now 2 points off the Champions League places! As for ourselves, we are 4 points off the Champions League, but 5 points off the relegation zone. As the Americans would say – go figure!

Only Ferguson ever truly mastered rotation. All of the others like Benitez, Ranieri and now Martinez are just made to look stupid with it. Ill eat my words if we start thrashing everyone in the second half of the season but somehow I doubt that will happen.

Amazingly professional athletes who only have to play at most two/three times in a week will still be fit enough to run around for 90 minutes then, the same way they still are after weÂ’ve Â’tired them outÂ’ with 80 minutes of mind numbing pointless possession.

Unless something drastic alters on the injury front and we get ourselves a run of victories, this seasonÂ’s Premier League campaign may well have to be consigned to experience as Roberto and his troops seem to have more of an appetite for the Europa League. In my opinion, that is a dangerous thing to do and it might well come back to bite Everton and Roberto on the bum.

There are still 27 Premier League fixtures to Â’endureÂ’ and hopefully we will see a bit of the team we saw in patches last season and less of the performances we have witnessed so far in 2014. It wouldnÂ’t be so bad if we knew we had a poor team that had to scrap for points at places like Sunderland and at home to Swansea but the truth is we know we are capable of so much more... ItÂ’s up to the players to show how good they are and stop going through the motions.

Not holding out against Leicester, the collapse against Arsenal, BainesÂ’ penalty miss v United, the no show at Anfield yet again, and the same against Swansea when we had the chance to go above everyone else, LukakuÂ’s miss today. Mental weakness that costs us time and time again. This group of players are just not winners. We desperately need an Andy Gray figure or Peter Reid type to come in and instill a winning mentality. I thought Etoo might be that player but it doesnÂ’t seem to have made a difference. If thereÂ’s an opportunity to be had Everton never take it. We donÂ’t turn up for big games and we only win when the pressure is off. Mid table is where these players are comfortable. The thought of putting Arsenal or LiverpoolÂ’s nose out of joint by staying ahead of them does not sit naturally with Everton - absolutely miles away from being a top club at the moment and considering the talent of the players some of the performances this season have been a disgrace. The best full backs in the league, two of the best young midfield talents anywhere, and a 28 million pound striker upfront supported by Samuel Etoo and we can barely win a premier league game. Of course in the Europa league when it not yet the knockout weÂ’ve been flying under no pressure - typical of Everton. As soon as we get to the knock out stages of that weÂ’ll choke too.

Whichever player he tries Naismith, EtoÂ’o, Barkley or Osman is just natural and negates each playerÂ’s weapons to the team. I think all four of them prefer to play in the hole.

I donÂ’t think too many did themselves any favours with their application and, while Lukaku is rightly getting pilloried, there are a few others like Baines who were equally poor. I think only the marvellous McCarthy and McGeady and our two solid centre-halves can be happy with their dayÂ’s work.

We miss Kevin and Dellboy so much in these tight games where a bit of magic can turn a frustrating afternoon into a winning one.

Some Evertonians need to realise we canÂ’t just turn up at established Premier League sides away from home, and expect to walk away with three points.

Yes, we were awful, but I think a draw was a fair result. Not the end of the world.

Up front, we were a ’bugger’s muddle’ – however much the manager talks up those behind them – they, too, had absolutely no cutting edge. He talks about how exciting was the team in the build-up - well, those moments must have occurred on the occasions my stream went down.

LetÂ’s face it, we are an ordinary side with an ordinary manager. I canÂ’t see us winning anything.... but whatÂ’s new?

We’re just not playing to LukakuÂ’s strengths at all, he needs to go at players like when he hit the post, but is shocking with his back to goal trying to play first time balls.

Referee was intimidated by the home crowd today and was a total disgrace.

YouÂ’re right about a draw being a fair result though. We were just as bad as Sunderland.

I just donÂ’t understand why he didnÂ’t stick with the lot that won and played very well on Thursday.

Even though Hibbert and Osssie are knocking on IÂ’m sure that they would have coped.

Barkley should not go to the Internationals as he isnÂ’t match fit.

At least we made chances and McCarthy cleared off the line to at least get 1 point.

I thought this would be our transition season and was right.

As for Lukaku heÂ’ll get there you will see.
Barry should be out for about 2-3 weeks and 2 of those are Internationals.

As for Kevin and Bryan hopefully they will be back after the International break
There were positives today.. The defence played well and Disitn can still play 2 games a week. McCarthy is a future captain. IÂ’ll be very surprised if we donÂ’t see another player up with McCarthy in the next game against West Ham as Gibson was poor..

If you look at the table and the form of teams apart from Chelsea everyone is having a poor season. So itÂ’s not just us folks

For me it comes down to a few things......how can the manager see Ross B as a left winger ? HeÂ’s utterley lost there and hugely ineffective compared to playing in the hole behind a single centre forward. How can Lukaku be worth his place at present? Stand by to be flamed but IÂ’d rather see Chris Long get a game right now. I certainly think EtoÂ’o should be given a run at centre forward with Ross behind him and until Mirallas is fit you just have to pick between Pienaar, McGeady and Atsu to give you some width.

Similarly Besic isnÂ’t a learner......heÂ’s played in the World Cup and tho IÂ’m worried heÂ’s a red card liability every game Id just give him a run alongside McCarthy rather than Gibson because I think we need his box to box style.

But overall for me the standout issue right now is that the Europa experience has simply re enforced RobertoÂ’s inherent desire to make numerous changes and keep it "fresh" when our small squad hasnÂ’t got the depth thanks to the fact that we all got a bit excited and spent 㿈m on one player.....and it doesnÂ’t really matter whether his form is crap right now or whether heÂ’s coming good any game now.....we needed two, possibly three instead of one......and they just needed to be quality tho not world beaters......and please donÂ’t tell me that x 2 㾺m attacking players wouldnÂ’t have given us something extra right now ?

Hugely disappointing but not yet terminal in terms of top four and going crazy well in Europa with FA Cup to come. All is hardly lost but expectations of a consistent top notch run in the league look far off the mark.

If we were awful, then that means we could (should) have played better, yes? Anyone ’expecting a win’ or ’walking away with 3 points’ is indeed foolish but expecting us to play a lot better football than we did, especially in the final third, and perhaps making some decent shots at goal — is that really something we shouldn’t expect? That might have increased our chances of winning — especially with the phenomenal talent out there on the field wearing Blue shirts.

And no-one (except you!) is suggesting itÂ’s the end of the world. Just incredibly frustrating.

Early on, the ball was fed to him at no real pace, hit him on the shin and bobbled away with Amo cluelessly chasing after a lost cause. We all looked at each other and said, "What the fuck have we bought?"

Okay, he did score a few important goals like in the FA Cup semi-final but was eventually packed off... never able to do the business for us.

Roll on 20 years or so and I look at our No 9 now. It’s not the missed chances he gets and doesnÂ’t take, like today, but the very basics of a centre-forward play he lacks. No control of the ball whatsoever,very little awareness of teammates, and doesnÂ’t even win much in the air from long balls.

I really hope this lad can improve because we spent all our savings on the strength of his goals the last two seasons.

Watching this today reminded me of the dud Amokachi was — heaven forbid, I hope we ain’t bought another!!!

Sunderland showed why they don't lose very often (check the stats before you start!). We showed why we don't win very often. We defended well, passed badly and had a non-existent striker up front. If Naismith played like Lukaku he would have been drummed out of the club a long time ago. I thought Eto'o's approach play was great today - you could see his frustration at the lack of movement in front of him. Watching Eto'o and McCarthy sprint past Lukaku to get a forward pass summed it all up.

This is a league with two consistent teams, Chelsea and Southampton. The rest are much of a muchness. It's all very well saying we're four points off the top four, but this is a league for the taking this year and we're not taking it.

To me, this is a team that's scared of succeeding. At the moment Martinez isn't making enough of a difference.

We just seem to play these lesser perceived teams at their level; we just seem to get sucked into the same tempo and end up struggling to create anything. Sunderland, particularly in the first half where terrible but we couldn't capitalise at all.

WTF was Howard doing with the wall for the Sunderland free kick - the ball was in the back of the net before the lad had kicked the ball; he won't score an easier free kick all season.

Lukaku! I gave the lad some stick in the week on another thread after the Lille game and I stand by everything I said; we played to his strengths in parts against Lille but again his touch and vision is shot to bits. How a professional Prem footballer can't kill a touch first time astounds me. Martinez has to get the lad off after 60 and give Naismith a shout.

The Ref was a disgrace today and his performance is ranked with the Clattenburg horror show against the shite.

We didn't lose, we have a break and we are top of the Europa League and above Liverpool and Spurs in the Prem. If we still are above those at the end of the season, we will be fine.
Rom and Ross are using actual game time to get fit due to the schedule and I'm confident that both will be flying soon.

I'd have played Naisy today myself, but hey, what do I know.

And Arsenal 1-2 down to the Swansea jacks.

Add to that a really good save or two and a quick piece of thinking to stop them getting a goal scoring chance and he probably saved us the point we ended up with.

Goalkeepers get beaten, it's a fact of life. But it isn't always their fault.

You can't seriously be suggesting Lukaku is still playing for fitness??

Frigging hell – are we going to be making that excuse all season whenever he has an absolute stinker?

Nearly every player is looking for fitness or carrying a knock but I tell you what: I watch the likes of Southampton and see how well every single one of their players is playing and how much work they are putting in then I watch Lukaku and it's makes me cringe...

I don't know who I'm more angry with at present though: Lukaku for barely breaking sweat and making trapping a ball look impossibly hard or Martinez for being shagged by Mourinho and paying 㾻 million too much for him.

Also, Martinez really does have his favourites. Lukaku and Barkley should have been subbed in the second half. Instead, McGeady is hauled off after yet another decent performance.

The optimists are looking forward to an exciting season, but the pessimists are worried!

Robles isn’t my favourite player but surely he deserves a game now, given the poor performances of Howard?

Incidentally how many times has Robles played for any Everton team this season?

I thought he may have turned the corner after the Lille game. I was wrong. Just because he paid a massive amount for him doesnÂ’t give him the right to start every game.

He should be benched; he’s not doing it so drop him. As someone earlier pointed out, give the kid Long a chance. Let’s be fair – he couldn’t do no worse.

The questionable decisions I recall all went in our favour — and some of them could have been absolutely disaster for us if they'd gone the other way.

Slo-Mo proved Mason was spot-on with the penalty that was, with their penalty claim that wasn't, and the bizarre Howard "Armadillo" move outside his penalty area. And he get's smacked down by a rampaging McCarthy to boot!

If you're a Sunderland fan at the game, without the benefit of those replays, I could well understand you slamming Mason — but I think he may have gotten almost everything right this afternoon.

[Tin hat donned...]

I’ve said it and it days like today that again bring the absolute obvious to the fore.

We lack pace and creativity from midfield and wingers.

I’m sure Martinez can see it and intends to do something about it in Jan or summer.

Players with real skill & pace that can unlock defences and beat defenders.

There are days when we get by and then days like against Swansea & today where you can see it is required.

Players like Bolaise, Redmond etc.

Looking at the Swansea Arsenal match - Montero is one we haven’t gone for - a real classy player with skill & pace.

Barrow who we were linked with looks a really dangerous player skilful with pace - why didn’t we take a gamble on him.

We have enough DM’s, CM’s etc - we need players to stretch and open up defences, that is what this is squad is missing to take us onto the next level.

Atm we are relying on players to take us to that next level - that have never been able to achieve it before and are getting older as well.

I bet it was you who come up with " Roblerto Fartinez " before he'd even taken charge of us ?

Don't think the defender even got a yellow, did he?

I’ll settle for that!

ps: Our 72 points last season could well be good enough for 3rd this season.

I'm actually fuming the FA Cup final is only 3 days after the Europa Cup Final.

Shades of 85 isn't it.

Lukaku doesn't look fit to me, he's carrying too much weight for sure. He's blowing and drenched in sweat after 10 minutes and we can all see he's not doing that much. Losing 10 lbs would give him an extra yard of pace and that would make a huge difference to his effectiveness, but let's face it, he's never going to be a skillful technician.

Rotation isn't the answer. I could understand if it was a dead rubber in a cup or if it was to give someone like baines who plays every minute a little breather but changing the team constantly is going to be our downfall this season.

The other thing is the squad and transfer policy. We have 4 players vying for 1 spot on the pitch behind the striker, yet the options out wide and up top are basically non existent! So we have gone back to square pegs in round holes again. It's not only affecting the team cohesion but it clearly must be frustrating to the individuals who's form seems to suffer as a result of being played out wide. Barkley is the biggest example. Yes he isn't exactly up to speed yet which is understandable but when he played against villa he was superb. Since then he's been rested (he needs match fitness btw) played wide left, rested then played wide left. It's like staring a game with 10 fuckin men.

Why didn't we recruit in the positions we needed to! Everyone knows Pienaar is struggling these days and cannot be relied upon. McGeady is and always has been hit and miss and Mirallas can never avoid a long term injury every season. So what do we do? Bring in Atsu who hasn't had the slightest chance to impress at all. One game here and there simply isn't enough. If they cannot contribute NOW then why the fuck bring them here in the first place?

The other thing is I thought Martinez is supposed to be a tactical manager, yet he refuses to change the shape of the team. If we don't have wide players then don't use a system that requires natural wide players! It's not fucking hard is it?

It's not been a terrible season so far but it makes it harder knowing teams like Southampton and West Ham are taking advantage. Sort it out, Everton!

People trot it out as some sort of reason as to why teams playing in the Europa don't win but I don't actually know what the difference is as it seems that there is a 3 day gap between either scenario. Or how about teams playing Sat/Tues or Sun/Wed which some teams have to play their fixtures on due to live TV? Isn't this also a 3 day gap too?

I'm honestly interested as to why it is somehow a reason.

Glass half empty: If we'd played halfway near our form of last year or had any sort of attacking edge to our possession game we'd already be in 4th looking down a few points clear. We've only won 3/11 matches and Southampton are an astonishing 11 points clear of us (yes a point per match!!)

Why bring Gibson on? He didnÂ’t move or run more than 10 yards. So boring, so predictable, so crap, we need too wake up get somefire in our bellies. Get us out of our Spanish Siesta.

Gerrard's ended up mid height in the middle of the goal yet Howard let it in. He's now conceded directly from three free kicks this season and its only November. If we're serious about top 4 we need a better keeper simple a that.

The first few weeks it was the defense that was all over the place. Now we're looking solid but have stopped scoring. Any Everton could turn up at home against West Ham. We could destroy them 4-0 or lose 3-0. We have 0 consistency at the moment.

Basically, Neville said the drop in performances were down to the fact the players aren't used to playing twice a week, both mentally, and physically. He said it was something you got a feel for over time, and you had to perform twice a week whist playing for a Man Utd, or Chelsea. Obviously they mentioned bigger squads etc, but the failure to produce twice a week was down to the individual players.

Really ?

I believe the referees should be allowed some latitude, however, and maybe that's what Mason was doing. A second yellow for Gomez would have been harsh... and a straight red for the Coleman penalty would have caused a riot. The penalty was penalty enough.

I know the rules say different, but I think such decisions should be entirely down to the referee to call.

McGeady has speed and trickery but generally only out wide and the other two lack acceleration but are employed further back. The only other with the pace of Mirallas is Seamus who has been nursing injuries of late.

It would be nice to have a settled midfield but injuries have taken their toll as now Barry is gone as soon as Gibbo comes back. What next?

Having said all that, the team should still have beaten woeful Sunderland and, despite going above the Redshite, it does not erase the frustration of dropping 2 points again.

The truth of the matter is we won't know which of the two games has been the most important until the end of the season – the point today may help us get into Europe or god forbid keep us in the division – the game against Lille will be relatively meaningless if we somehow fail to qualify for the knock-out stages of the Europa League or exit the competition in the first knock-out round.

My ratings for what its worth:

Howard- 5. Free kick was decent but Howard's positioning was questionable. It was always going where it went if you know what I mean. Diving on ball thing was not clever...it was very nearly a total howler.

Coleman- 7. Very rusty at the start but came into it more as the game wore on. Won the equaliser or would be on a 6.

Jagielka- 6. Not quite as in control as in recent matches. Didn't do much wrong though. Would like to see him a bit more vocal as skipper.

Distin- 7. Did pretty well in his second game of the week. Won a good amount of headers.

Baines- 6. Pretty average I thought. Few good crosses in and gave away silly foul for their goal. Penalty was pretty terrible and lucky to go in.

Barry- n/a. Hopefully not too serious. Was missed.

McCarthy- 9. Outstanding. Was everywhere and crucially for me drove the ball forwards at times, beating men and getting forward. That's what I want to see more of, to compliment his relentless running.

Gibson- 6. Mostly tidy apart from getting criminally caught on the ball in our box. Not too shabby for someone who's had so little game time but he's a poor man's Barry.

McGeady- 8. Thought he looked our most creative player with Etoo while also doing some great tracking back. Has proved doubters wrong and been very good his last 3 games. Well done Aiden.

Etoo.- 8. Classy player, too often looking for absent movement from his striker. Brilliant through ball for Coleman's penalty. Shame he didn't score early chance, would have been a beauty.

Barkley- 6. To be fair he's playing out of position and may not be fully fit yet. But we expect more. Went on a couple of trademark runs but needs to be more precise and effective in the final third to justify a starting place.

Lukaku- 4. Deary me this was a woeful display i'm afraid. I can forgive the very heavy touches and seeming lack of mobility so long as he puts away his chances but today he missed one gilt edged one and a few other possible ones. Happily for him Martinez has more patience than me.

All in all we are only 4 points of 4th. But equally we are only 5 points above the relegation zone.

Definitely not found our groove yet in the league. I'd be tempted to try playing Etoo, who looks to have the best vision and touch in the playmaker's role behind Naismith who looks to have the best movement. Or what about Ross Barkley as striker, crazy perhaps but he has the power and strength and certainly a better touch than the present incumbent....

2 weeks to work it out Roberto before West Ham come to Goodison. Win that and things will be looking all right.

If we were not in Europe, we would be higher in the league. Deffo. And that would achieve what? Getting into Europe! We ain't winning the league ahead of the billionaires, so why not try and win a European Cup?

All we get now are these lousy overrated and overpaid lumps who spend more time on their hairdo's than on their game.

Another blank and all the excuses are wheeled out. They're young, they're carrying injuries, their heads are not right, they're getting no service. Maybe they are just crap players who take their enormous pay packets but don't do the work. They look the part but they almost never produce. The rest of the team tries everything to get them into a position to score and they invariably fluff the opportunities they get.

If another club offered the money we paid for Lukaku I would bite their hand off and say good riddance. 㿈,000,000 and he can't even receive a straight forward pass without ballsing it up. It's a joke. Apparently now that he has his five year deal he doesn't have to impress the team he's on loan to or on loan from so it would appear he's forgotten how to score a goal.

Why is being 6th about right? Southampton are second. Is their squad seriously better than ours? I would say not but they do the basics properly like defend well and hold on to leads and take chances when they come along and most importantly....win.

We miss easy chances and we only seem to play well once we've conceded which we seem to do from the few chances we ever give the opposition. Plus we more often than not draw. Being in the top ten though, or picking up a point here and there to keep an unbeaten run going seems to get heralded as a massive achievement by these players.

Every season we say the top 4 is too difficult blah blah but every season someone leaves the door ajar, we just never want to go through it. With a better mentality (and dare I say keeper) we could have been top 4 in the last two seasons. The door is wide open this season but we will let one of the worst Liverpool or Manchester United sides in Premier League history take a spot because we're spluttering along too scared to grab it ourselves. They will both kick into form later on in the season and we will rue the fact we haven't built up a lead when they have been in turmoil.

We'll kick into form as well but not enough to do anything significant of note. Depressingly predictable and familiar.

We havenÂ’t really hit our stride yet but only 4 points off third and should progress in Europe so let's see where we are in January.

I would love to see us win the Europa League and I would take middle of table in the Prem at seasonÂ’s end and victory in the Europa over ending up 6 or 7th in league any day .

But, of course, it was Amokachi! He was never as prolific as Romelu, scoring only 10 goals in some 40 appearances but was certainly of similar physique and inconsistency. I remember a game against Newcastle when he netted two and the papers talked of his ’silky skills and finishing power’. On other – most – days, he couldn’t trap the euphemistic ’bag of cement.’

I think Lukaku is better than ever he was but the one great thing they certainly have in common was that neither manÂ’s skills ever extended to being able to string half-a-dozen good games together!

On another note why did we blast the biggest transfer window budget we have ever had on a 㿈 million striker who canÂ’t even trap a ball? Martinez has blasted millions away on several players, and only James McCarthy seems anything like the standard we need. We are too old, too slow and boring to watch.

Besides that IÂ’ve never seen a center forward look so bad. Tripping over himself like a muppet, canÂ’t even get a shot off on a one-v-one. MartinezÂ’s passion is there and people seem to think he is this demi-god but I think he has us all fooled.

Southampton benefit from having to only compete in the Premier League and from a very generous fixture schedule. Not to mention having their players fresh and away from the World Cup. You can see that many top four Â’contenderÂ’ teams are struggling this season including Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd and even Man City and Arsenal. This is no coincidence.

Let's see what the table looks like at the end, and whether Southampton, which is being held as the new ideal, retain their spot.

Given that he is unlikely to change his vanity on this matter, we must accept the problem will continue and the result will be no better than a mid-table finish. Settle for that now and enjoy the good days.

For the days like today, weÂ’ve got ToffeeWeb to moan on!

WeÂ’ve had 5 years without Europe but it hasnÂ’t helped us shake off inconsistency. If Europe was such a big deal then the sides who played in it would have a massive disadvantage every season yet the champions league sides still qualify for the champions league every year and sides like us and Tottenham still get to the Europa. Its freak qualifiers like Stoke, Swansea, and Wigan who have brought up this myth that European football affects your league form.

Southampton have taken advantage of good fixtures, something we find very difficult to do. They probably wonÂ’t get top four but at least they are punishing the problems of Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs in a way that we are too mentally weak to do so. Instead weÂ’re seeing second tier teams like Newcastle Swansea and Southampton all cashing in whilst they can. We should be ahead of all of these and in the top 4 by a long way if we had any sort of collective attitude and desire about us whatsoever.

I canÂ’t wait until the pre-season game versus MoyesÂ’s Real Sociedad side gets announced and a proper old school bitch fest can happen on here!

Eto'o for Naismith

Barkley for Osman

He was hardly radical with the changes there, was he Phil?

Most people on here were delighted with the starting line-up... but hindsight is a wonderful thing to use as a stick to beat RM with.

Cretin that Martinez!

Last season, Martinez won us a lot of points with his substitutions, whereas this season I feel it has been the complete opposite and he's costing us points instead. It shouldn't be hard to coach a big 13-stone centre-forward how to control a ball unless the kid just isn't good enough.

Stop the fucking ball, instead of trying to knock it off first time, is how I would begin. Then I would get him to start backing into defenders to keep some space, instead of running towards the ball at 100 miles an hour which closes down his own space. I would also play to his strengths and knock the ball over the top now and again to stop him from getting lost, because all this constantly coming towards the ball seems to be making him a worse player.

I honestly think if we could get our best team on the pitch, all playing in their correct positions, and we could have a great season, but I'm not sure it's going to happen at the minute. A team has to play together to achieve consistency, but all this chopping and changing is leading to a lot of frustration instead at the minute.

Michael, you should have heard the Sunderland fans moaning about the ref walking away from the stadium, saying he gave at least 80% of all decisions to Everton. Can't remember the last time I saw a good ref, but it can't be easy when you have to try and please the both teams!

With Martinez, the plan seems to be, hog the ball as much as possible; this way we won't concede, and at some point in amongst all the passing we will probably score from a moment of individual brilliance. That's what a some of the wins were based on last year: brilliant free kicks, brilliant solo goals, wonder goals.

The problem is that when you lose those individual talents from the team, ie, Mirallas, Pienaar and Barkley, you can't keep going with the same system and hope it works. At the moment we're just passing it around but the likes of McGeady, a rusty Barkley, and an out-of-position Eto'o or Naismith cannot come up with these same game winning moments. Then, when you concede, you've got a mountain to climb.

When it was good last season, there was a purpose and rhythm about our attacking play as though we knew exactly what we were doing offensively and defensively. Now, we just seem to be passing it around relying on the theory that, if you have the ball, the opposition won't score and by some chance you might at some point. To me, this is just a different type of football lottery and proving equally as ineffective as previous years' vintages.

But perhaps you shouldn't be too hard on your hero!

Away from home we should just play one up front with a strong midfield presence to pick out passes and move up the pitch quickly. With the likes of Eto Lukaku McGeady and Barkley all playing right up front they cause more problems for themselves than the opposition.

They are running into each others space and frequently running back onto the ball with their backs to goal rather than charging forward facing the goal. That is why we are tip-tapping at the back or backwards and sideways to each other because there is no midfield to link up play and build momentum.

1. Silly free kick to give away and then a pathetic wall.
2. Lukaku well off his game... give him a month off.
3. RM going on about Sunderland should have 2 men sent off. Even if "Rules are rules" this is not Everton style... more suited to Brenda across the park.
4. McGeady substitution... he was doing better than any of the other forwards.

With the greatest of respect to you, one of my favourite posters on ToffeeWeb... Mentally exhausting?

What and who we are remembering and honouring at this period of time would have been mentally exhausting for the brave lads who were there. Not a football match.

At the minute, I think most of us are identifying the issue of who best to fit in the hole behind Lukaku whether it be Naismith, Barkley, Pienaar or Eto'o.

I only care about Everton ultimately, although I watch numerous games over here in the USA, not only am I baffled by the so-called football we are... erm, producing, but Spurs & the pinkies across the park are also producing similar dross, I think Spurs have lost 4 prem games at home now?!?

The Liverpool v Chelsea game at Anfield at times was awful (not as bad as ours today), I actually fell asleep a couple of times & was so bored; I alternated watching Derby v Wolves, so is there a connection? Well Liverpool, Everton & Spurs did really good last season in the Prem, but this season, we all look closer to mid-table or worse!

We know our cousins lost their crown jewel in Suarez & had injuries to their other goal scorer Sturridge, but what a transformation, not unlike ourselves, with losing key players like Barkley, Mirallas, Stones, Coleman, Oviedo, Pienaar etc, also Rom with his toe injury, plus some other issues he had (has), World Cup etc... he looks almost like a different player – although we are not playing to him, like we did last season (another topic entirely).

It seems like our defensive issues have 'improved' as of late, only 2 goals conceded in the last 6 games, compared to the early part of the season.... so why oh why, are we playing like we are?!?

The European hangover, could be one reason, it certainly does seem to haunt most Prem teams that compete in it, no matter what we think of it as fans?!?

I refer back to James Martin's post (128), we appear to have lost that purpose & rhythm to our attacking play from last season; now, we keep possession of the ball, the theory being that the opposition can't score if we have it! I think had McGeady scored with that swerving shot, Barkley's shot that was blocked by Bridcutt(?), or Rom's shot that was tipped onto the post... had either of them gone in, perhaps it would have been the catalyst we needed?!?

Lee Mason has always been a prick with us, that tackle by Gomez on Barry was awful, he could easily have broke Barry's ankle & if you notice, Mason only issued the yellow card & not red, when he realised Gaz was seriously injured! Gomez most certainly should have gotten a 2nd yellow for his pathetic dive for a penalty!

Even the penalty on Seamus was a fiasco, once he pointed to the spot, he had no choice but to issue a red card to Wickham, as he prevented a goal scoring opportunity, but what does Mason do..... probably apologised to the lad that it was a pen & not even give him a yellow card....... WTF??

I think I could write a tome on what could be, needs to be, has to be, should be, wanna be..... I think a creative midfielder is urgently needed, someone in the Coutinho mould, so he could creative, knock through-balls to our striker(s) & take shots too. (He does get subbed a lot, go get him Roberto!)

Rant over [sigh]... apologies for rambling!

Howard organised that wall, and it proved inadequate once again. Also the shot should still have been saved.

Thank God for McCarthy, he was a true example of how they all should have been performing, and even when he was strapped-up and lame he got back and saved Tim's bacon with that goal-line clearance.

Wake-up Blues and start playing from the kick-off.

We're pretty easy to work out, I'm afraid.... no 'Plan B'. Having said that, my heart sank when I saw Mason was the referee... and I wasn't wrong. I can handle the fact that this buffoon is one of many in this league, if, just occasionally, their incompetence benefits us. It just never seems to work out that way.

What the fuck was Gomez doing still on the field after that assault, in front of Mason, on Barry? Intimidated in his decision making by an almost silent home crowd ffs!

And don't get me started on Howard... the man is clearly mentally unbalanced at times.... come January we should go all out to get Begovic from Stoke because Timmy-Boy is fast becoming a frightening liability. 2 points against utter rubbish, comprehensively dropped.....

(We did have more 'possession', however!)

To me, the underlying problem is that some of our players are just not good enough and we lack balance. Losing Barry was a massive loss, because Gibson showed himself to be half the player, too many loose passes from him.

Then we had Lukaku, Barkley, Eto'o and Naismith taking it in turns to play on the wing. Of our players who played on the wing yesterday, only McGeady is a proper winger and it showed... yet even he often looks to come inside rather than use the space.

I find it difficult to criticise Martinez too much for playing players out of position because, with Mirallas out, he has no decent players able to play there, with Atsu so far proving far less effective than Deulofeu.

As we found under Moyes quite often, when the balance is not there, the team looks disjointed and slow. There is a lack of options, a lack of players occupying space, making runs, making defenders think.

As for Howard, I agree with Phil Gardner and others that he is too often a liability. He looked pleased with himself when he made that sliding challenge to protect the ball outside his area. Stupid fucking thing to do, to give a clearly incompetent referee the chance to award them another free kick and let Sunderland benefit again from Howard's useless wall organisation.

Howard is symbolic of a lot of our players. At times can reach excellent standards but doesn't have the mental fortitude to sustain them game after game. Also doesn't have the mentality where anything other than a win is enough. You would never see Howard throwing a Southallesque strop. He's part of the group of players laughing and joking with each other at the end of another game of needlessly dropped points. The sort that think a point away from home is a good result and that its really difficult to beat teams like Arsenal Liverpool and Spurs home or away. Then comes the inevitable Echo headline 'we'll bounce back, we'll win the next one, blah blah blah', all talk no walk.

I honestly think some of the team of the past, although possessing significantly less talent, had better 'Everton' mentalities. Players like Carsley, Stubbs, Ferguson etc. whilst they are not in the same league talent wise as some of the current team they took losing the same as the fans. I can't think of many players in the current squad who has that extra bit of passion, maybe Coleman and McCarthy, and Mirallas at times in the big games. The rest seem content to allow 80 minutes of a match to float by, concede one, then equalise and walk off with themselves absolutely made up for not losing. I would say maybe its a bit of Moyesitis but a lot of the players are new now.