Massive disappointment after brilliant Mirallas strike

Game on! Leaves opposition with 4 or 5 attacking players to keep eye on....

My only slight concern is whether Barry is 100%? Otherwise, that is certainly a side good enough to take 3 points against an average Spurs team.

Hopefully Besic can avoid getting a red card!

LetÂ’s Â’av em!!!

Leaves the opposition with 4 or 5 attacking players to keep eye on....

Some difference alright to the teams we were putting out in the early Â’90s. COYB

Osman and Pienaar on the bench is a good sign just in case Barry gets hurt or Barkley needs taking off.

Lose this and it just feels like two steps back again, our away form in the league is poor and will hold us back from making a top 4 challenge.

Our league from is patchy and frankly the likes of Barkley, Coleman, Baines are not living up to the hype at present.

I said yesterday on a thread that I wouldnÂ’t drop Garbutt or Hibbert because they performed so well on Thursday.

Martinez needs to start rewarding good displays with a bit of consistency; otherwise, the season will drift into mediocrity.

Have we actually put in a great performance in any league games this season? We have been so clueless here again, it’s Sunderland and Swansea all over again — against a team we ought to be taking something from.

I just donÂ’t know how we go forward in the Premier League this season, we just donÂ’t build on good results enough. ItÂ’s about time the big name players start doing it regularly.

IÂ’ve been really disappointed with Coleman since heÂ’s been back in the team, I hope it is just a case of fitness because he just hasnÂ’t been quite the same this season.

Man City and Southampton are our next two away games, we could really do with taking a point here but this fucking place is a graveyard for Everton Football Club.

The only thing I can say genuinely generates massive interest for me now is the Europa League; domestically we look mediocre but perhaps the Europa League suits our style better.

I certainly think the way we play has basically been sussed by most Premier League sides now, itÂ’s pedestrian.

I actually looked on Sky Bet to see the odds on Soldado scoring. 7/4 to score anytime. I knew I should have put money on it. Always against us does a player break his drought.

Some very average displays out there. Difficult to name out MotM

Martinez sometimes doesnÂ’t seem to understand some football basics, taking a risk in attack, then winning the ball back quickly if it breaks down is a perfectly legitimate tactic. He seems to think football is just passing the ball around sideways extremely slowly. It isnÂ’t.

We could have hammered them today; we were poor, they were good. They got the run of the ball and they still only just edged it by a goal (that was hit straight at the keeper who moved out of the way). A massive missed opportunity that no-one in the Everton team or management seemed to recognise or care about.

Very disappointing after the first 20 mins. We should not have started with so many players that were obviously not 100% match fit. They may have recovered from their injuries but the likes of Barry, Baines, Coleman and Mirallas were all just coming back, 3 of them playing for the first time for a while and Mirallas having played an hour on Thursday in just his second game back.

Their first goal was poor, Distin gave them the shooting chance and Howard should have done a lot better with the shot. After that though, the whole belief seemed to disappear and we were like rabbits in headlights for the rest of the half until we went 2-1 down after BarryÂ’s cock-up.

Another point: EtoÂ’o and Barkley are both quality players but they cannot play at the same time as their best positions are in the middle. Martinez should have started with one of them on the bench, probably EtoÂ’o. At least he would have had an attacking threat on the bench for the second half.

Should have started Ossie in the middle with Besic and McGeady on the right to give Coleman some cover given he was just coming back after injury.

Poor display and poor result and the manager’s got to take the blame as he picked the wrong side. Very disappointing as Spurs really were shite at home – until they played us!

We always have had a habit of making shit sides look good, even more so with shit Spurs sides.

Cunt of a record against them especially at the Lane.

Who do we play Wednesday??

Oh yes, another manager under pressure and team in bollox form. (Hull)

I mentioned after the last game Everton played in Europe when some supporters were making exuses foor a poor showing that you cant make exuses for playing in Europe as Spurs played on thursday as well and they looked sharper and were winning the 50-50 balls.

This slow build up from the back does not work when the opposition put a quick winger to track back. Yes we still have a couple of injuries but the Spurs back 4 was an experimental one and we very really pressurized them

The equaliser seemed to galvanise Spurs and from that moment on, there only looked like one winner of this game... Although it was very sloppy from Barry for their second goal.

We really need to get our shit together if we are to challenge top 4!

Watching the game Sky – it’s like watching the Spurs Appreciation society. Biased bastards.

Who do we blame? Martinez for not believing in scoring from dead balls or the players for not being able to kick a fuckin ball a foot higher than they do?

Also, is there a team in world football that gets punished as much as us because of individual fuck ups. Fortuitous is what Martinez called their goals. IÂ’d call them shocking from our goalkeeper and unfit midfielder.

Shit. Just... shit.

Martinez brings back injured players too quickly.

We need to buy a reliable keeper in January. HowardÂ’s mistakes are turning games and losing us points. IÂ’d sweet talk Cech up north. Or go for Marshall.

Why canÂ’t Martinez see that you have to pass the ball quicker and forward? Everyone else can. SIdeways and backward passing achieves nothing.

And he seems totally incapable of changing his plan. Our record against top-half sides this season is poor.

Heartbreaking that they have lost every game after Europa and that was their first win and SoldadoÂ’s first goal in 12, typical Everton!

The team had no balance, what the fuck was Barkley doing playing in the middle and leaving Coleman on the right by himself?!!! EtoÂ’o has been a good signing but did we really get him to play in midfield?!!

I know he is capable of glimpses of brilliance but is Barkley as good right now as the hype he gets suggest?!!!

Never mind – all you need is Good Old Dependable Everton to help turn around your season!!!!!

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR???!!!!! PLEEEZ SOMEONE EXPLAIN!

Okay, McCarthy’s was enforced but why does the under-performing Baines come back automatically? Garbutt never put a foot wrong in Wolfsburg – nor for that matter did Hibbert – but he brings back two players who have been ordinary all season. I always thought there was a golden rule in football: never change a winning side... unless enforced. Marinez obviously thinks he knows better.

Apart from the goal, what did we actually create? Jack shit – that’s what. Our build-up is sterile, predictable and pedestrian. And today, Jags and Distin were overworked because of an under-performing midfield.

ItÂ’s obvious Martinez has his favourites and thatÂ’s why the likes of Baines and Barry walk back in the side when itÂ’s clear theyÂ’ve been piss poor all season. Also he canÂ’t wait to get Osman and the very very ordinary McGeady involved.

And also, are we the only team in world football that hasnÂ’t got a member of the squad that canÂ’t beat the first man with a cross? ItÂ’s fucking atrocious the amount of dead balls we waste.

I still canÂ’t believe thereÂ’s posters on here that think we can reach the top 4. IÂ’ve got news for them: not a prayer. We donÂ’t create enough to worry teams and thatÂ’s been proved by some very average performances all season. I canÂ’t really remember one game (Wolfsburg apart) where IÂ’ve said after the game, "That was brilliant, thatÂ’s what it should be like."

We made a very average side look good today and thatÂ’s what hurts. HavenÂ’t won in the Premier League after playing on a Thursday? Come and play Everton. Striker hasnÂ’t scored for ages? Come and play Everton. The remedy club who keep on giving. Why do we cure everyoneÂ’s ills... so frustrating, as Jim said earlier.

Hull have been in bad form... see whatÂ’ll happen. And as for the Man City game, well were catching them at the right time arenÂ’t we. IÂ’ll be delighted with a 0-0 there but IÂ’m not holding my breath on that one. Sick tonight after that. But hey, only Everton can lift you up only to bring you crashing right down.

Very depressing and feels indicative of our season to play brilliantly on Thursday and then limply today. I think the Walling 7th-ish is looking spot-on for the league so I just hope we can keep up the Europa effort and get a good FA Cup run.

Disappointing but we will end up higher than Spurs this season, silly game to give away to make that more of a challenge but we will nonetheless.

Time for Barkley to start stepping up too.

Still gave us a start and won!

Distin and Barry at fault for some of the goals, whilst Howard could have done better. Side unbalanced, roll on Wednesday.

No positives at all. I give up!

You're not alone, mate! Barkley is not producing displays that live up to all this unnecessary hype, the hype has come all too much to soon, I may be sceptical but I remember the Rodwell hype after he scored a Rolls Royce goal against Man Utd...

Barkley always looks hyperactive on the ball and like it's a bit of a hot potato at times. He's got talent but, let's face it, he's not that good yet. If he was at Man City or Chelsea now, he wouldn't be getting a game, so it's best he stays at Everton.

Doesn't help, mind you, when Martinez decides that – because McGeady is not the player he expected when signing him – he feels the need to play Barkley out wide right, toss, if Moyes did that he'd have been crucified.

2014 has simply gone back to the Moyes days, lost twice at Spurs, beaten at Old Trafford by a poor (at the time) Man Utd team; two trips to Anfield, mullered in one and saved from defeat in a shocking display by a once-in-a-lifetime goal from Jagielka.

A 4-1 defeat in the Quarter Final of the FA Cup at Arsenal and two defeats to Chelsea and Crystal Palace (at home).

The structure was all wrong, again, and Eto and Barkley were at the heart of the issue. We now have three players well suited to AMC/CF - Barkley, Naismith, and Eto. When we try to shove two or three of them into the same team, we do not link up well. Today, we were playing a Spurs team with a centre back playing right back, and we should have concentrated our efforts exposing that. If Pienaar was fit, he should have played some part, because the Baines/Pienaar combo could have exploited Chirches. We needed extra protection in the midfield, and not 2 strikers, and 2 attacking midfielders, away to a team who are effective on the break, but not effective at breaking teams down. Lukaku got next to no service, as we played sidewards too much because of a gap between the DM's and forward players, or if not we hit meaningless long balls to the head of the Spurs centre backs.

Thursday and today were night and day. We did play away against a tough team on Thursday, and we've had horrendous injury luck, but we did not approach the game in the right way. I thought this was one of the most frustrating performances of the year, and I agree with Mark: Only Spurs looked like winning after the equaliser. They were more determined, won more 50/50s, and set up better tactically. All our top four rivals won today, and we did not put in the kind of performance which suggests we have the belief to finish in the top four. We need a win in mid-week, and more importantly we need Martinez to sort out our structural issues. Barkley may be a great prospect, but if he is not playing centrally he would be better off on the bench.

Their second goal came because Barry was trying to run the clock down before half-time and was looking just to keep possession; however, he lost possession and they had 5 forwards heading for our box and inevitably scored what turned out to be the winner.

Even Gary Neville was saying how slow Everton's passing was, but those of us who watch regularly know this is our game plan. And for RM to come out after the match and say he was pleased with our intensity... then he must have watched a different game.
The sad thing is, on the odd occasion when get forward quickly, we look a good side. But under RM – unless he changes – this seems to be the way he wants us to play, always take the easy option when on the ball... which usually means sideways and backwards.

(1) Ross out wide;

(2) Bringing Barry back – who was utterly woeful – way too early;

(3) I tend to look at the out-players and forget how much of a liability our keeper can be;

(4) difficult to see Sam and Ross together in the middle and Sam – sadly – was also woeful (note to gaffer, he probably can’t play 2 games in 4 days now).

I also, however, was feeling good about this at 9:59 am (Chicago time)...

Anyone who thought that we would have lost that game at 16 mins would have been shot by the footie nous firing squad; anyone who thought that we would win that game at 66 mins would have been shot by the footie nous firing squad.

Look at this over-reacting drivel and do the words Â’bollocksÂ’ and Â’more bollocksÂ’ spring to mind?

Mick Wrende - 50: just in the top 10 and miles away from the top 4.

Phil Walling - 35: Is Harry Kane better than Ross Barkley? I would have to say Yes on todayÂ’s showing.

Jim Bennings - 39: Oh yes, another manager under pressure and team in bollox form. (Hull)

Fair enough, the first could be poor mathematics but the last two are simply unbelievable but not – sadly – unexpected.

I could agree that perhaps Osman should have been chosen to start as opposed to Eto'o... and perhaps Pienaar could have been brought on instead of the totally inept McGeady... but I'm afraid that the players out there were by and large the best available to us at this moment in time. Let's hope Kone or Oviedo can add some competition to the team.

Obviously the lack of McCarthy was very noticeable but, when all is said and done, we don't have the strength in depth that we need to qualify for the Champions League places and, more worryingly, Distin and Barry looked out of their depth today — that doesn't bode well for the future.

One of the major problems that Roberto has got is that he is stuck with most of the older players on the staff because there is little interest in them from other Premier League clubs who probably couldn't afford their wages and so they are part of the first team squad, when perhaps one or two should have been moved on last summer. But, if Roberto was to move them on, he has to replace them with equal or better players which doesn't come cheap.

This season still has some promise but not as much as we were hoping for and today's performance and result sums up the frustration of being an Evertonian at the moment; glimpses of what might be... only to see it crumble due to silly errors and a lack of creativity at important points in the match.

Please correct me if necessary but Did Mo Besic put a foot wrong? His passing (especially first time) was sublime and his defending was measured when yellow or red cards and penalty calls were just inches away...

But how about this gem: "If we get the first goal I think it's 3 points." — Yea, spot-on Paul... 3 points for Spurs!

Coleman had nothing in front of him apart from the opportunity to try and beat 5 players and create something!!!!

I like Mirallas but I really miss Baines & Pienaar together down the left!

Such a frustrating day, I'm still fuming and gutted at the same time, time for a few more drinks!!!!!!!!

Like I said earlier, we proved we can do it by the Wolfsburg performance so why the fuck canÂ’t we replicate it in the Premier League? YouÂ’d think it was Spurs who won in Germany the other night, not us, given the way the teams played.

IÂ’m so frustrated tonight and if, IÂ’m honest, IÂ’ve wrote this season off. Out the League Cup, not a prayer in the Premier League... two hard draws in the Europa League and FA Cup and you know whatÂ’ll happen...

I think you over egg the pudding by calling it a "gem".

What I will say is, this Europa League lark is killing us in the Premier League. Have we won a game this season playing on a bloody Sunday?

Pointless, Pedestrian, Predictable Passing.

Oh and one more: Pissed off.

I don't think today's result was anything to do with the players he had available; it's his style of slow ponderous passing the team's lack of desire to play the ball forward early. We could have had Shearer in his prime playing for us today and the result would have been exactly the same – our forwards are having to produce goals from scraps.

I don't think our two DMs were given much cover by the three in front, until a few substitutions were made.

Don’t let a second rate European competition blind us to the woeful shortcomings that are plain to see.

Sideways and backwards are fine if you’ve got something to go with it. Ordinary players make ordinary teams.

"Disappointing." — W Smith.

As for 'did Mo Besic put a foot wrong?' How about when his appalling back header nearly gifted Soldado a goal in the first half? Ok, technically not a foot but still very wrong.

2. Lack of heart/belief.

3. An obsession with Â’never mind the quality feel the widthÂ’ passing that just defers to the game plan of teams that counter it.

4. Total intransigence in changing #3.

Apart from that, we were great today.

Baines didn't look fit either and just does loads of suicide runs. Hibbert would have performed better – and that's not a joke; a left back has to defend first and foremost and Baines is out of position all the time.

Barkley played again out of position and again was poor whilst Distin and Howard are not good enough for a team with any sort of ambition of the top 4 – mind you that might be said about a lot of the players.

Once again from Everton it's just a display of really poor mentality at an away game that you had the sense throughout they never really thought they could do any better than a draw. We've got players with a mid-table mentality and that is where we are heading for this season.

No penetration, no passion, no aggression, an all too familiar away performance. All we had to do was copy Thursday's tactics yet we allowed Tottenham to play on the counter even though they were at home because of our obsession with pointless possession.

Here's to another narrow win v Hull City rescued by either Osman, Pienaar or Eto'o off the bench, then an uninspiring capitulation to Man City due to Howard or Distin errors. It's becoming as familiar as it was under Moyes.

When I said earlier that I knew we would lose after Mirallas's goal, I was pointing to our habitual failure to press on from an early lead, as others have said. We concede space and momentum in these situations, almost as a reflex.

Tim Howard is a serious problem for us and Distin is also a liability now. Great servants both but they are costing us significantly this season.

Give Spurs some credit, for the mid 75 mins they wanted it more, worked their socks off and let us pass ourselves in to submission.

Give me the Everton of the West Ham game back please. I'll take a Hibbo 100% tackle over a McGeady half-hearted flick all day.

Martinez is right about small margins though and yet again Howard made the difference. To get the first goal and be dominating and then for our very poor goalie to gift them the equalizer is a massive momentum shift moment. He sucks the air out of our team time and time again and I'm just hoping the Miami rumours are true and we can get rid of him.

Not much surprise that you get swamped when you donÂ’t have posession then.

Poorly set up and all down to RM today IÂ’m afraid. Not nearly enough attention paid to the 38% of time when we didnÂ’t have the ball because they looked far more like scoring than us today after the first 20mins. No-one there to dig in at all except young Besic who covered a lot of ground and I donÂ’t understand criticism of him at all.

We had that purple patch when we won 7 games on the spin (still included that 4-1 FA Cup hiding at Arsenal though) but we finished last season in patchy to poor form losing at home to Palace, Man City and self destructing with TWO own goals at St Mary's...

It's merely carried on into this season.

We started the year poor with defeats at Anfield, Spurs, Chelsea and hen we won 1-0 at Old Trafford almost a year now exactly, then followed it up with a near perfect performance at the Emirates, I truly thought we'd turned the corner. We'd shed ourselves of the David Moyes years of never winning away to a rival club, top 4 venue.

Sadly, as time has gone on, it's looking all too familiar again now with predictable boring slow pedestrian football, predictable results away to clubs likes Spurs, Man Utd, Liverpool... it just feels like we are going back to the Moyes days.

We have Man City away next week, another loss in all likelihood; we have Southampton away before Christmas, another graveyard ground for Everton; and a tough game at Newcastle before New Year, that won't be easy.

Could be a long winter.

I think that Everton should go all out and try and win the Europa League because that is going to be the only way they will get back into Europe for next season.
Everton in my mind haven't got what it takes this season already to get into the top 5.

The problem with playing in goal – one mistake and everyone is on your back but the defenders make three or four mistakes and they are just playing badly. The goalkeeper often gets his defenders out of trouble but usually there is no-one to help him.

Feel free to criticize...

This challenge for 4th really does need to be given a rest. We may have padded the squad out a little in terms of number but it's not great in terms of quality. We need at least one, possibly two creative midfielders; until that changes, the midfield will be crab-like: pass, pass, pass and then back to the defence and goalkeeper.

Why does Martinez also insist on trying to play out from the back in dangerous positions? We don't have players who have the physique to muscle off players in order to pass their way further up the field and just lose the ball. (Osman last season at home to Sunderland and Palace and again this season at home to Palace and now Barry today.) We have players who can't control possession in our own halves and it's happening far too often.

I just wonder if the focus on this season is on the Europa League and other competitions maybe become second fiddle.

Spot on!

What message is it sending to Garbutt when the guy plays so well and puts in the best corners I have seen from an Everton player for 12 months then gets dropped for Mr Consistent Leighton Baines (if you like every corner or low predictable cross hitting the first defender).

Baines, great player he has been, has not had a great season in terms of defending (never has been a great defender) but going forward, he has been average for me, he is too predictable with you just knowing what he's always going to do.

When did he last hit a top quality free-kick??

Spurs are shite but a combination of fatigue and unfit players plus a terrible howler from Taliban Tim handed them the game. It's one or the other — Premier League or Europa League; we can't do both...

The stats don't lie. We can only go to the well so many times. In fact, the well is already dry on this performance... Oh and 㿨 million for Barkley? I would take it now. Ross is going backwards. Last thing he did of note was score at Newcastle last year... The new Jack Rodwell?

Barkley was awful, Lukaku was isolated, Baines and Coleman poor, Barry appalling, Besic was our best by a mile, the rest average.

Worst team for a decade, thanks for that Roberto.

It doesnÂ’t matter about money etc, Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal have probably their worst sides in years! So ItÂ’s just so disappointing to see such a total lack of belief.

McCarthy apart, that was probably our strongest team out there today but itÂ’s getting to the stage where I donÂ’t want us to go 1-0 up as you know we go into this mentality of waiting for the backlash...

Why canÂ’t we take these sides apart when were on top? Because we donÂ’t pressurise!! We go 1-0 up and we start passing sideways as if we are cruising at 3-0 up, giving sides the chance to re-group.

When was the last time we hit a team for 4 or 5 with the attacking options we have?? It’s tactics – and that’s down to Martinez!!

As for Howard, well it isn't one mistake – it's a constant stream of mistakes. That first goal was a joke, they were going nowhere, the crowd was on their back, we had them where we wanted them, and he goes and does that.

Every PL game at every venue is a difficult game and if any team is unprepared to battle or takes their foot off the gas they will be punished, if they don't play well as a team they will be punished and despite the poor result today and the performance we are still a decent team but it can all turn sour in a few games. If you think things are bad now wait until your prophesies come true on a more regular basis, then you will be able to fill the whole of the internet with your tales of woe and the end is nigh declarations which at times make Nostradamus seem like the most entertaining stand-up comedian that ever lived.

Hull City next.....COYB

Howard: Think he should have done better on the first goal. 6
Coleman: Alright defensively, some timely challenges. Not good going forward. Didn´t put in a useful cross all afternoon 5
Baines: Overall a poor game, set pieces not working, crosses far between and few. 5
Distin: Struggled, but not our worst player on the day. 5
Jagielka: Best in our back four, perhaps our mom? 7
Barry: Gave away that second goal after losing the ball. Our midfield maestro led a midfield that lost the battle 5
Besic: Horrendous back header almost gave away a goal. Otherwise battled well and usually found an Everton shirt when passing. 7
Barkley: Ran with the ball, to find Tottenham shirts following him everywhere. Movement around him not good, but he tried. I´ll give him that. 6
Mirallas: What a goal! Then went sour and contributed little afterwards. 6
Etoò : Invisible man. Could turn a man a couple of times only to pass backwards or sideways. 5
Lukaku: Never got into the game, no help from his team mates either to do so. 5

Osman: Offered some calm with the ball. 6
Mcgeady: Nah 5

When did we become so good that when we scored, no effort or desire? The team gave two goals away due to the manager's idea that passing around the back six with no purpose or direction is the way to go!

It appeared to me that when we scored, this was against our game plan. Only when Spurs scored and went ahead did we start to play. Only when the changes were made did the team have any urgency.
Sadly, successful teams go for the second, third or fourth goal and we lacked desire and pace to do that.

I give no credit to Spurs today, they were there for the taking and we gave them three points. Just keeping the ball does not win games!

Very disappointed, but need to move on to Hull...

Kunai, we know Osman hasn't got the physique so sometimes loses the ball. But Barry doesn't have the physique? That sounds strange.

But he scares the hell out of me with his hospital passes (at times) and his rash challenges. He needs to cut out the kamikaze stuff and get a run of games... I think we have unearthed a gem with Besic.

Our pre-season was a disgrace. The early part of the season was woeful and has not really improved that much. Our football is so predictable, it's untrue and we are being found out on a regular basis. Teams are either sitting well back in their own half watching us pass it along the back line for minutes on end or pressing us and waiting for us to make a mistake – which we do regularly.

This statistics-based football that Martinez lives by is just shite and, as I said on another thread, I would rather take an injury-time winner after getting battered for 90 minutes than losing after having 70% possession and 600+ passes.

Commenting that on current form, Barkley is hardly likely to become "England's greatest" and that others are shaping up better at present is hardly an outrageous view and is one shared widely amongst Evertonians.

Similarly, the prospect that we may finish no higher than mid-table looks a distinct possibility given league form to date and tonight's table.

You are more than entitled to hope that such views are disproved but it contributes nothing to a discussion board to dismiss others' opinions with such disdain.

To support Everton – as with any club – is to live in eternal hope but to virtually deny any considered opinion that a player and/or the team have performed disappointingly and may not be destined for immediate honours is hardly any more balanced surely?

I do not expect you to give great consideration to my views or those of your other fellow posters but, really, ''bollox'' is the rather pathetic indication of a very closed mind, indeed.

Can I ask some questions?

1) Do we think Howard & Distin are finished? Coz I fuckin’ do.
2) Where has Browning gone? Fuckin’ brill at Anfield & Old Trafford.
3) How fuckin’ shite Is McGeady?
4) Barkley – the most overated fukin’ player in the world... 㿞 mill? My arse!
5) Does Rom look about 2 stone overweight?
6) What’s happened to Kone, Gibson, Pienaar, Oviedo, etc.

Garbutt and Hibbert were outstanding in Wolfsburg yet find themselves dropped for players who have under performed all season but Roberto has his favourites – a point made by the fact his babes walked back into the side today. And please don’t let me hear anyone say, "Well, it’s a squad game". Injuries apart, winning breeds confidence; changing the side breeds uncertainty. Spurs 2, Everton 1 — need I say any more?

It's difficult to define what has changed since April but, aside from injuries, there has crept into our play the type of instinctive fear and caution which RM was supposed to have dispelled.

For so long as we worry about what might go wrong, rather than what might go right if we are bold enough, we will remain where we deserve to be.

The simple facts are that we are a half-decent, inconsistent team who lost to another half-decent inconsistent team.

I'm as positive as they come, but why was a winning team changed to accommodate returning players who looked unfit? I'm starting to get serious concerns about Martinez and his staff's ability to assess fitness. By the way, if there are any fitness experts on here who can explain this and our strange pre-season, please enlighten me.

I don't think Martinez tells the players to pass the ball sideways for 90 minutes. It is clear that all too often, we lack a sense of pace and purpose. Surely we can trade a bit of ball retention for taking a chance, particularly with our current keeper. With Howard in goal, I always feel that we need to score at least two, just in case..........

Looking forward to a rare visit to Goodison on Wednesday. I know Hull will park the bus – which Everton will turn up?

Also, I know that there is a not a player on the books who can rally and bully the team when things go wrong.

Roll on, Hull.

Yet both Spurs goals were down to defensive frailties and a goalkeeper who should have pushed the shot away from the oncoming Spurs player, who followed on and scored; while their other goal was just bad.

I always think that we need someone to link the back 4 and defensive midfielders to the attack. Osman can do it as can Pienaar but neither is able to do it on a regular basis. Difficult when they don't start of course.

The loss of the fit and in-form Pienaar from a couple of seasons ago is a big miss.

"Everton have made a league-high six errors leading to goals this season". Well, make that eight now. Even the opposition's programme editors have got us sussed now.

Just back from the game (to not far away Watford), and couldn't agree more with most of the comments here. We were just too slow in everything, moving the ball forward, movement off the ball, so pedestrian compared to a Spurs side that attacked with pace and were winning far too many 50/50s. But who almost certainly wouldn't have won without our help.

Haven't missed a game at Goodison this season, but Hull on Wednesday night is a big ask now after that performance.

Too many regulars just not cutting it. The foundations are just not strong enough, Howard, Distin, Jags all average.

Plus Barry was simply not fit.

The top, top teams play their best teams every game. Sod rotation, if they're playing well let them play. If they become tired, rest them but don't make wholesale fucking changes just for change's sake.

Roberto has, potentially, the best squad we've had since the '80s but he doesn't use them properly. If he forms a group of undroppable favourites who will play fit, injured or whatever, then we will not progress. The likes of Baines, Coleman, Barkley etc need to know that, if they lose their place due to injury, then they are going to have to fight to get back into the team.

Pienaar and Stones have been a massive loss to us as Baines isn't half the player he is without Pienaar in front of him... and Stones is the only central defender we have who is comfortable on the ball. Get those two back and we'll be okay.

I've just splashed out a few hundred dollars on 3 tickets for the City game next Saturday, arriving in Manchester from the USA that morning.

I can't turn back now but I wish I could after watching that performance.

On a different matter, I hate that black kit – it seems to bring us bad luck. Why couldn't we wear blue today?

Let's sell two of the best prospects in England. And bank a profit.

Spurs displayed good movement throughout, were well organized at the back and showed plenty of pace and resolution up front.

Players like Barry, Mirallas, Coleman, Barkley and Baines need game-time. Players like Eto'o and Osman can help win us games but they need to be fresh.

This possession football, building up from the back, is beginning to work against us, as Gordon Strachan pointed out the other day. When teams, including Chelsea, are faced with two banks of four, they will slow to a crawl whether they like it or not.

Let's hope we can up the tempo against Hull. Get men into the box, feed them with early crosses and look like we want to win.

Best player we have faced all season?

Hazard.....Di Maria?

For all those statisticians out there, is it true that today was Roberto's 51st game in charge? I think I read somewhere that his record so far is:
W 25
D 15
L 11

True or false?

If it was a school report he'd get a B with: "Doing well but must improve his decision making regarding unfit players and team rotation."

10 points dropped from winning positions in just 13 matches – Everton dropped 12 from winning positions in the whole of last season.

What worries me is that we have been like this all season. I think really we have been lucky to accumulate the amount of points we have. Also, I feel that the team is starting to feel depressed about its OCD; other teams have noticed this and are waiting for mistakes before pouncing.

This Wednesday, I'd drop Howard, Coleman, Baines, Distin, Barry, Barkley and Eto'o. Fuck 'em, if Brenda can drop Creasehead then we can drop these and give Robles, Hibbert, Garbutt, Browning, Osman, Ledson and Pienaar a chance to show their worth.

It was as if the spark didn't fire until injury time, when we suddenly put them under pressure and Lukaku began to get stuck-in. Too little too late.

The obvious mistakes were playing Baines, Coleman and Barry. None were match-fit and Barry was well off the pace. Baines rarely got down the left, constantly checking on halfway and passing back too Distin or Barry. Coleman was afraid of really sprinting, so wasn't as penetrative as usual.

The other problem that Martinez caused was playing Barkley on the wing (he was much better in the centre later on) and playing a striker (Eto'o) in midfield. Eto'o was useless in the role – surely Barkley could have started with Osman in for Barry.

Unlike some of the blinkered comments on here, I thought Besic was a shining light, working hard, closing down and always looking to push forward.

The big problem is midfield: No play-maker. No one looking to get a quick ball away. Barkley losing faith in his team mates and seeking to do it all alone, playing like a greedy schoolboy.

Every time the ball was played into our box, I trembled with worry. I have no confidence in our keeper. He was poor for both the goals, they were not his fault, but he couldn't make up for the other's mistakes like good goalies do.

This slow build-up play is killing us. In reality, we could have lost in Wolfsburg, and could have lost against West Ham, indeed, we were outplayed by Wolfsburg at home in the second half.

Players should not be rushed back and players should not be played out of position unless we have no alternative. Déjà-vu?

Nice wins nothing.

The lack of energy and movement off the ball has been evident for most of the season, and players being played out of position is really starting to get on peopleÂ’s nerves now.

I think, like a lot of fans, Martinez has to have a long serious look at the goalkeeping position; too many mistakes, too often.

Thanks for reminding me!

There isn't an Evertonian who doesn't want him to live up to the hype – although his manager's frankly ridiculous expectations have put the kid under unnecessary pressure – but Ross has got to start imposing himself on games just as does McCarthy on a regular basis.

I hear he is 'out of this world' on the training pitch but so tight is the competition between Premier League sides these days, that there is no longer much scope to carry 'luxury players' in the real thing!

Just a query with your statement, "The top teams come at us and it suits our style of play". Does that mean we shut up shop and make them suffer?

Just like any other manager we've 'suffered' over these many years, our Catalan has his good points and bad. Wrongly, perhaps, I prejudged him on Pie Eater gossip and was made to eat my words by last season's 5th-place finish.

As recently as last Thursday, we were all singing his praises but, after a narrow loss three days later, he's accused of player favouritism at the very least!

Yes, I, too, continue to question his judgement but at least I'm consistent. One of my beefs was the ridiculous signing of 'Butterfingers' Robles who you now advocate should replace Howard in goal...

God spare us from the vagaries of TW team selectors!

I don't think he will change, he believes this is the way to play, needless passing leading to a slow build up, yet on the odd occasion we play the ball forward early, we have looked a dangerous team to play against. Both Gary Neville and Lawrenson both said about how slow our tempo and passing was; now surely RM should be seeing the same things. But I believe that he has the team playing this way at Finch Farm – it just doesn't happen by accident.

Apart from our style of play, what also worries me as much, is his ability in the transfer market. He has bought Robles who he seems reluctant to play; Kone... well, hard to judge a player that has rarely been fit since he signed; also Alcaraz who has had 3 good games but by and large was an understudy for Distin till he fell out with Martinez. He gives Barry a 3-year contract and Eto'o a 2-year contract, surely these contracts are far too long given the age of the players. Finally McCarthy who looks like a very good player.

Phil, that was posted out of sheer frustration over yesterday's 'performance'. What I will say however is, if Seamus isn't 100% he can be quite average. Therefore I'd have kept Hibbo at right-back. Bainsey without Pienaar loses 50% of his effectiveness and Barry just isn't fit.

Roberto, like most managers, has a stubborn streak. He has players he trusts and will play them come what may. He won't change his principles so we might just be a seventhish team this season as he seems to be putting all his eggs into one basket, ie, the Europa League.

Telling them to push up to close us down in our half.... That is the only tactic opposing managers really need to know about us.

You have more confidence in our getting a result at Man City than me but I do hope you end up being right. There can be few excuses if we cock up against Hull City, though. Agreed?

Besides Chelsea, the rest of the Premier League are no better than ordinary, full of overrated and hyped players who have a couple of good games and suddenly believe what the newspapers and worse still their over-hyped and overpaid managers tell them.

Let’s stop the pussy-footing around and say it as it is: we’re just another very ordinary team with no Plan B who can make a poor side like Spurs, and even the RS, look good.

No wonder the you can’t get a good price on Chelsea to stay unbeaten all season. Unbelievable!

However, only three of the new man's raft of signings have created much of an impression and I imagine few of us would entrust him 'with the bank' with anything like full confidence.

There was enough 'pissing about at the back' yesterday to remind us that this remains his preferred style in spite of the very considerable part it played in getting my family's club relegated. And again his after-match summary seemed to compliment the team on carrying out his instructions and blaming referee Oliver for defeat whilst going to great lengths not to blame referee Oliver.... if you get my drift !

Yes, Colin, he has been well and truly sussed by fellow Premier managers although he will be able 'to get away with it' for some time on the Europa stage where what we see each week is not so readily available.

As BK is fond of telling us, ' Roberto's a lovely fellow' and rightly respected throughout the game. But as an Everton manager on the evidence so far, I am not yet including him in my top handful......but that's another story !

Your faith is heartening, believe me I hope you prove me right mate.

Spurs at home tried to nullify us - they were lucky - we had by far the greater amount of possession and shots on target similar, they had 15 fouls to our 5 and 5 yellow cards. That is a big step forward than putting 10 men behind the ball .. with Moyes .. (who I love by the way)

The reason we have days like Sunday is that the style of open play will take 3-5 years to bed in and through the youth, acquired players, reputation attracting the likes of Eto’o and Rom etc will give us the only realistic chance of getting back to the top table and the glory days. A midfield of Ledson, Besic, Barkley, McCarthy, Mirallas et al in 2-3 years will be very powerful.

Stop being short termist and naïve in how clubs’ styles develop over time ... even Chelski with a returning JM failed last year and then get the formula right this year – Man City are not as great as their spend and so forth.

I was so proud of the line up on Sunday when I heard the team news and pragmatic on how the game developed – even when my son was celebrating the first goal I shared my concern of a 2-1 (I actually said 3-1) – however, the future is so so bright...

Still a little concerned how close the Hull game is .. but will watch tonight to see JonJoe and look for elements of development from the first team on Wednesday ...

Great post.
Absolutely spot on.

He needs to get his head up and play early balls instead of looking down and trying to play off the cuff every time. He has got the ability to be a real star, my good mate , who was at the game(Spurs season ticket holder) thought that he would become "some player".
He needs to play behind Lukaku, not on the bloody wing. Remember how various managers have opted to play Rooney on the wing!
Kendal always seemed to play players in their natural positions, left-sided on the left, and right - sided on the right, whenever possible.
The team(late 80s) always looked well-balanced.
If Bobby believes in Barkley, then he should back him, and build the side around him, or he will be gone, and we will see him reach his potential elsewhere.

Strange beings, these managers because the same thing happened to Fellaini when Moyes signed him for United and then played him everywhere but where he had been most effective here. It's as though they think they know more than the evidence of their own eyes. Weird !

The issue is - the same as it always is with Everton - is that Spurs spend a lot of money so have the media drooling all over them. Despite finishing ahead of them last season our weak minded players still view them as a bigger team and would be happy to scrape a point there just like they do with Liverpool. That is why a Villa or West Brom can go to Anfield or White Hart Lane and win easily. We go and guarantee them their best home performance of the season and three points.

I'm not having it that a midfield of Bentaleb and Ryan Mason is better than what we could put out. Their defense is shocking yet did we test it at all? No. Fazio is a walking mistake yet we made him look like Puyol in his peak. Three points were there but our players couldn't handle it. If it had been at Goodison we would have won easily because that is the only place these players will perform against the top sides. Any one thinking we will go to City and win is deluded. We should have beaten United and Liverpool way this season but choked on both. This group of players, like the many Moyes had under him cannot handle expectation, cannot handle achievement, and cannot handle pressure. This will be seen in the first meaningful knockout game we have in the Europa League as well. This is a sickness that has dogged Everton for a long time.

We have historically flirted between being a rubbish side that can get up for the big occasion, even cup finals, and a side that shows solid league form but will bottle and choke at every single opportunity presented to them. Only the truly great Everton sides have matched good league form with success.

I would even argue that given the amount of talent in this current team they are even mentally weaker than some of the teams under Moyes. The Sunderland game at home when that record loomed large, the last minute conceded goal in the Goodison derby last season, the capitulation at home to palace when champions league was in our grasp, the conceded goals to Leicester and Arsenal this season, the failure to capitalise every single time the teams around us lose. This is a team boasting the best full backs in the league, two of the top midfield talents in the country, Etoo and Lukaku upfront with Mirallas on the flanks yet they are languishing in exactly the same place as some of the teams of the past that would have a midfield of Gueye Heitinga Neville Osman. Its an absolute disgrace. It is such a spineless side, we have barely got anywhere near the tempo of last season, we are slow all over the pitch, completely risk adverse in our passing, no one can tackle apart from McCarthy, our central defense is woeful and our keeper is horrendous. Week after week we're relying on our bench to win games for us with players like Osman Hibbert, Etoo and Naismith being our top performers. Three of them probably wont even be here in 2 seasons time. This team needs a huge kick up the backside as it is simply not good enough considering the talent on show.

All yo have to ask is what position would we be in if Mourinho managed the team? He wouldn't stand for this ridiculous choking, this aversion to playing away form home, and this crippling fear of any side with a bit of money. We'd be where we should be considering the talent in this squad - third or fourth battling it out with Arsenal and United. Not slumming it with Liverpool and Spurs who have made their worst ever premier league starts. Ever notice that when Liverpool have a good season we also do well but just that bit behind, and the same that when they have horrendous starts under Hodgson or Brendan we still manage to stay behind them? All in the head - players are just too scared to achieve.

Our problem is clear. We look fantastic on the break, with Lukaku spinning off the centre-half, or Barkley surging out through the middle, or Mirallas flying on to a flick out of defence. However, when we get hold of the ball, and dominate possession, we look ponderous, and our slow play allows the opposition to get numbers back and we end up putting in a poor cross which is cleared. We have not got the guile to open teams up unless Pienaar is combining with Baines down the left. We are predictable and therefore impotent.

Our best moments are quick attacks down the flanks, before defences are set, we would have done better to sit back at Spurs and wait for the counter, and we even had the perfect start, so they had to come out and play.

So it is down to Bobby and his tactics – we had a lot of possession again, but what's the point? I'd rather we played like Palace.

Of course we want to win every game and look fantastic, but this season we were never going to pull up trees in all competitions, at least I thought so.

A top 4 finish is still the most difficult to achieve for us each season, a Cup win or Europa success is by far our best chance.

Say what you want, our club is in its best shape than for a very long time.

"Sexy team", "We'll win if we score first" , "Hope Barkley doesn't play out wide"

Oh man, it never gets old rooting for this lot. We have a LONG way to go before thinking about top 4. We should start by finding an asshole player who wouldn't let us fold like that. Jags sure as hell isn't it.

The minute Spurs equalised, the game turned, even with a team chock full with 'experience'.

We can skate round the peripheral issue of tactics or 'no Plan B', whatever that means (can someone come on here and be honest enough to say Plan B = hoofing it aimlessly?).

I'll judge Martinez on his ability to turn this gutless lot into winners, or bring in the type of players we need rather than another lightweight 'winger'.