New Year, Same Problems

ItÂ’s hard to take that at this point in time the following squad members may have little or nothing to contribute going forward:

Howard
Robles
Alcaraz
Distin
Barry and
Pienaar

Three of the above were signed by the current manager and the three that he signed were all Free Transfers?

The January window may not be the best time to acquire players but at present we need:

Goalkeeper, who will be number one choice going forward
A central defender to compliment Jags and Stones and
someone to play wide left

At present we are one of the three worst teams in the division, the only team to take 0 points over the Christmas / New Year period.

The second half was much better, but it was disappointing that the two big front men couldnÂ’t get anything going together. Barkley looked like the only likely scorer and Baines at least looked like he was searching for the killer pass.

As for Robles, he was like a rabbit in the headlights for Jella’s goal, just awful. We were lucky we didn’t concede more goals, and a better team would have capitalised on the worst defending I have seen this season. Baines caught napping again – perhaps he should stay in midfield. On the positive side, Oviedo looked up for the fight, and with more games under his belt I think he will be an asset once again.

LetÂ’s hope for a rousing Cup win against the Hammers to set us up for a big moral-boosting win against Man City. If we donÂ’t stop the rot soon, it really will be a crisis.

I do not want a return to the Moyes negativity but I do expect a manager to recognise that if there is a problem conceding goals then you do something about it, not put more into the attacking side hoping to Â’out scoreÂ’ the opposition.

Baines and Coleman played as our two wide men in midfield, not as defenders yesterday. As we stood yesterday and watched us give the ball away in the last third, Hull had a simple solution: play it into the spaces vacated by these two and watch Barry and Alcaraz struggle against the pace and the athleticism of their centre forward (and Jelavic).

Is this the ’Wigan’ philosophy happening again? Are we sleep walking into relegation? Pundits will say each year about a team that is ’too good’ to be relegated getting drawn in – well on the performances of the last few games we are there already!!

Martinez needs to do 4 things:

1. Openly recognise and admit there is a problem with our defending and publicly say he will address it, otherwise he continues to treat the paying public as morons.
2. Accept that at times you have to be pragmatic in the Premier League and change your philosophy to get points on the board. ItÂ’s no good going on about playing style, defeat breeds a lack of confidence and no number of Â’positive wordsÂ’ will ever compensate for points and wins. God help us against Man City if he tries to attack them!!
3. Stop putting square pegs in round holes to accommodate players. Barry has one position, if he isn’t performing, drop him. Barkley has only one position, he cannot / does not defend, so it’s behind the CF or on the bench. Naismith has only one attribute – effort – is that good enough for a Premier League player? If so, my dog available next week. Eto’o, Barkley, & Naismith cannot play as wide men, whoever thought they could?
4. Playing three Â’Number 10Â’sÂ’ in the same side invites disaster against any side with the nous to move the ball wide and make any of these players track back. Put players in systems that they understand and can play and stop changing it every week when the problem is defending.

Should he stay or should he go? I want to give him a chance but if he can’t / won’t change his approach then he must go. Success, even at a modest level, is achieved when you recognise your own weaknesses and address them. Not accepting there is a problem is blind ignorance and will lead to disaster sooner rather than later. I haven’t heard his pronouncements on yesterday’s debacle and sadly don’t want to – is that the end of the line for him from me?

He has to decide who he wants at No 10 – Barkley, Naismith or Eto’o. Whilst Eto’o could play up top or out wide, the other two should not play anywhere else. Barkley has the class to threaten defences but is woefully limited in a midfield role where his work rate and awareness of others is poor and, consequently, he leaves us exposed.

Why he didnÂ’t persevere with the Garbutt/Baines experiment I donÂ’t know as we have missed balance on the left. Besic deserves a full match and Barry requires a rest.

The second imperative is the need to quicken the pace of play, mix the passing and get back to using crosses from out wide. Some signs of greater urgency recently but this has coincided with our draining confidence. We need to put teams on the back foot.

Finally, I think fans would rally around Roberto if he came out and talked with greater honesty and less patronising drivel.

Fans have every right to air their views and everyoneÂ’s utterly fucked off but right now, Roberto, having been up all night struggling with the same issues as us all, has had a eureka moment and things will look up in 2015. I would say Keep the Faith but that slogan is associated with Wigan Casino and any references to Wigan weaken my argument.

It can work with a big, strong front man, Didier Drogba played this role well, he can win the ball in the air and hold it up. Lukaku – I am sure he could play this role, if the team know when to play him and not just lump balls up, and isolate him.

Play 4-3-3 when we have the ball and 4-5-1 when we donÂ’t. The only problem is the manager wouldnÂ’t play 4-5-1, when the likes of Jose Mourinho would play it and knew how to play it effectively. The results and goals against us tells everyone that we need to tighten up and change the setup and tactics; other mangers have sussed us out, time for a change of plan, Roberto.

Would you, if it was your's ?

What, really?
@٠m per place in the PL??

If we finish 7th we just missed out and could point to a handful of results where we could do better next year. We finish 17th and frankly a lot of the players are thinking "new club".

January fixtures include Palace, City and WBA. Last year I would have predicted wins over Stoke, Hull, WBA, Palace and probably a draw vs City.

Now I would say... beat WBA, lose to City and force a draw at Palace. But Palace and WBA have got new managers:Tony Pulis will have WBA much more difficult to beat. And Pardew has already sussed RM out at Newcastle. City, well I wouldn't expect too much there anyway.

At the end of January if the above result go against us RM has to go. We cannot continue going through game after game being soft.

Wasn't it Einstein that once said; to continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results is the sign of insanity??

Kevin 7, I thought Baines did okay in there, but agree with Naismith. Barry and Alcaraz in the same back three? Playing a high line, with no pace between them? Especially with a keeper stuck in his six yards box? They are the worst tactics I have seen since Walter Smith was in charge.

I’m wrong there. Those tactics would be okay, but only if the personnel was different. This suggests one of two thingsL Martinez, doesn’t even know his own players – or his head has fallen off!

Jim 3 - I agree RM has four options but I disagree with your 4 - mine are:

1. Leave;
2. Leave;
3. Leave.
4. Leave

before the damage is irrepairable.

And just for the record....
Apparently Marie Antoinette did not say "let them eat cake" either!!!

I wasn't around when either of the above did or did not say, well any of that!

But I WAS there when Roberto said "I can get you Champions League". And I don't recall him saying that we would be getting beaten at home by Stoke and be made to look like a conference side against the mighty Hull??

I like Roberto. I do. I like the positive vibe he gives off. But he has made us into a soft team who do not look capable of keeping a clean sheet.

'Bobby Bright Eyes' he may be but using our club as a football laboratory is not on and BK should never have paid his 'research fees'.

Who was it who said 'Off with his head' ?

He clearly lacks any sense of pragmatism and is stubborn as a fucking mule. I liked his ideas last season and thought he could mix it and had learned. Very clearly I was completely misled like a lot of other blues, perhaps players too.

We are in serious fucking trouble here and unless the board make a big decision this idiot of a manager is taking us down with his awful planning, tactics, arrogance, obstinance and general fucking one-eyed bullshit.

Please please please have the fucking decency and just GO.

9 days ago he refused to rule out us getting into 4th place.

We all thought he was deluded. What we didn't realise was he was talking about 4th from bottom.

And to keep reminding people. We lost 5 on the bounce when it was the last 4 games of the season and we were virtually safe from relegation and nothing for which to play. The following season we played awful with a KITAP1 philosophy and stole into 4th place with a negative goal difference. Fight, hard work, effort and bit of skill and some good fortune seemed to be the key.

Early doors it was Lukaku and his toe that were the lightning conductor when it was apparent that it was the styile play rather than his deficiencies that were the cause of his lack of goals.

Since then it is fair to say that injuries and bad reffing decisions have affected us.

But the main problem is the dreadful "philosophy" we are shacked with and the position we find ourselves in now has been coming or a while.

So to call for the the manager's dismissal is not knee jerk as some posters have suggested on here. It is the culmination of months of frustration.

We have not won anything for almost 20 years. That is mostly down to the Chairman but right now the main problem at the club is the manager. He can't change so it is time for him to go.

On an entirely separate point, I am impressed how all the reviewers here, Lyndon, Michael, Ken and Paul, have been able to write with coherence and depth about the last few games where we have been so flat and featureless that I would have struggled to put any description together. Thanks and well done.

This man's refusal to accept anything bad about his style is really killing this club. Here's an interview he did when Wigan got relegated.

See any similarities?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqN78KeAsfs

I absolutely, completely 100% agree with your post.

The only thing I might add is that my purely personal belief is that we should avoid relegated players if possible. I think there is some kind of subconscious psychological damage to self belief and they are more fragile if put in the same situation.

Given that we have a manager and have heavily raided relegated Wigan this is an even worse situation for us if we keep this empty vessel who makes more noise with less action than any other manager in the Premier League.

The other problem is, if the rumours are true about unrest in the dressing room and friction between the manager and a couple of players, some of them may start to put in requests for transfers and that is really serious as we do not want players who do not want to play for Everton.

Firing the manager may not be the answer at this time as it may be too late for someone to come in and change it around... plus I do not think BK has the backbone to do it.

All we can do is hope that some way Martinez can turn it around and, as he is too stubborn to change what he believes is the only way to play the game, look at the end of the season to replace him if it is still not working.

Sure, he could throw a few millions at the manager to bolster the defence but who the hell would trust his judgement after what he did with 㿔M + this summer ? And, who worth his salt, would wish to join a team that every observer says looks like a rabble at the moment.

No, the time has come for positive action. That is if the Wiganization of our great club is to fall short of sampling FL Championship football next season !

I have to say IÂ’m not one for chop and change and all that, but we need stability first and foremost. We need tippy-tappy football second. If RM cannot get the two together it is a lost cause. RM has to have a better defensive mindset.

For the record, I donÂ’t think that we bought badly this summer or last January. McCarthy, Besic, Kone, Lukaku are all decent players. However the formation and/or the positions they are asked to play in are the problem.

So I donÂ’t think giving RM money to spend is a problem, however who will come and what will RM ask them to do?

Spot on; this January some clubs are going to be turning some of our players heads for sure. Losing Barkley, Coleman, Mirallas, McCarthy or Besic would be really bad.

I fear for us. I really do. I can honestly say I do not see 3 worse teams in the league. QPR and Leicester. Burnley have done a bit better and can dig a result out. They play for their manager.

When you see situations where a manager loses his players there are not many situations where that can be repaired.

I agree with Ian (#14), but if Martinez does get the boot, who else is there? LetÂ’s forget the philosophy/attractiveness play, letÂ’s get back to the basics. Why not try Besic in Central Defence? LetÂ’s play 4-4-2, guys... itÂ’s just an opinion.

That's the first time anything Everton related has made me smile in months never mind laugh out loud!

Even in the depths sometimes a chuckle can be found, thanks for that one Phil!

Now come on Bill do the right thing and find us a manager to keep us secure in the PL for 2015.

He had success with his "philosophy" at Swansea because he managed to get them promoted from the 1st division to the Championship but they finished 8th and he left to manage Premiership Wigan. As we all know his time at Wigan was not a success. All he did was dodge relegation using the same methods he’s using now until it caught up with him and Wigan went down and he jumped ship to Everton.

We now know his "philosophy" is not a success at Everton either. It’s just wishful thinking. RM is a fraud who had a little bit of success with a lower division club who could afford to take a chance on him.

RM is a dreamer who fancies that he has come up with some brand new innovative way of playing football. He hasn’t.

Everton need a pragmatic manager who can get the best out of the players at his disposal. We do not need some Pep Guardiola wannabe who is busily running the club into the championship. Get rid now before it’s too late.

I think everyone is starting to realise how bad the situation we are in, so it is imperative that Martinez's position, one way or the other is sorted out very quickly.

Move on a year and we have a combination of players out of form and/or over the hill.

I look at other teams at the moment and wish we were them - the spirit of Burnley even makes me envious.

The myth that we play (or have played) great football under Martinez as opposed to the supposed dirge under Moyes needs to be put to bed. Sure in the early days under Moyes it wasn't great, but look back to his last season - Swansea away, Villa away, Man Utd and City at home, we played some great stuff.

2. Sign a new #1 keeper NOW. Goalkeeper deficiencies have been papered over (and possibly ignored) whilst the team appeared to be doing well. As the team has aged, the deficiencies have become more apparent.

3. sign players to suit and fulfil your preferred formation and playing style. Signing players as stop gaps just doesn't work.

4. Accept when an approach isn't working and when it needs to change. If an approach continually doesn't work or reaps the same bad outcome then it's simply not going to work with the same group of players. Lots of things work in theory but not in practise. Van Gaal was man enough to admit his approach of 3 at the back wasn't working.

5. Buy new wingers. The Everton squad is full of central midfielders and very few wide men. Yes they can play wide but it's not their speciality. Buying players to fit the formation will always reap a greater return (goals) than retro fitting players.

Roberto was never my first choice, but I was willing to give him a chance and some time.

But I think it's gone too far now. He needs to go because he's stubborn and idealistic and right now we need someone who is willing to put the club first, not themselves and the "philosophies".

As most have alluded to on here though, Bill doesn't have it in him to make the right call.

We are once again in a time of major crisis. It looks as though two camps are emerging and I suspect the majority of Evertonians – I accept not all – are in the "Martinez is on borrowed time" camp and have virtually no faith that he can turn things around. The rest probably, along with most of the media, are in the "Martinez needs to (presumably because they believe he can) dig deep and turn things around" camp.

I am most definitely with the no faith camp simply because the evidence that he can't to me is overwhelming. Here's some of the reasons why:-

Pre-season was abysmal. He was misguided to spend so much time at the World Cup and undoubtedly neglected the Club's pre-season preparations. His apparent search for World Cup nuggets produced only Besic and I think the jury is still out on him. But either way his impact will never be worth Martinez's neglect of his club responsibilities.

How can we trust a Manager who put his faith in Robles for so long when the rest of us had massive doubts from the beginning? Our fitness levels look to be lower than they've ever been.

In all my time watching football I have never heard a manager say (as he did after the Southampton game) that he believed that the team he had selected had the ability to win the game. Why, on that basis, would any Manager need to make substitutions ever again? That kind of inflexibility – is that becoming a common theme – can get you relegated!

The constant post match spiel about the players needing "to be themselves" and to "enjoy their football" is so far removed from the situation we find ourselves in as to be laughable.

Then there's the utter crap about not being deterred from playing attacking football even if that means giving goals away. Excuse me, Roberto – is that the king of attacking football that generates huge excitement amongst supporters, that leads to goals or at the very least forces the opposing keeper miraculous saves and most importantly clocks up 3 points in most games? If it is – take it from most of us – we ain't playing it!

And finally, when the world and his wife could see that Barry was getting unmercifully creamed with regularity by Hernandez in the Hull game – why didn't he change the defensive set-up? To carry on with it was nothing short of lunacy.

I could go on with Roberto's misjudgements, whether they're caused through ego, arrogance or naivety... but there's little point. Our problem is that Roberto is such a likeable guy and probably like his Chairman a a naïve romantic that, other than from those Evertonians who have been forced to watch his team's performances for most of this season, calls for him to do the right thing and say adios will be distinctly muted and perhaps until it's too late.

In conclusion: I would love him to turn things around – do I think he will? – on the evidence so far – not a chance in hell!

Funnily enough I remember Carsley getting subbed when we were 2-0 up against Wigan (of all teams) a few years back and they came back to draw 2-2.

Firstly we have lost the first team coach for a start who just happened to have been one of the most solid defenders we ever had. A quick look at Hibernian and they appear to have a half decent defence as they are currently sitting third with a +15 goal difference. Yes I know that it is the second tier in pub football but clearly Stubbs knows how to set out a defence and how to train them.

Secondly our squad has aged. Distin had been holding back the hands of time for a long while, Pienaar's legs look older than mine, Osman never had pace but he did have quick feet which appear to have gone and Barry also looks geriatric.

Thirdly our pre season was awful, poor opposition and poor amount of games. Contrast that with who we played last season and they are chalk and cheese.

Fourthly injuries, we have had critical injuries which have disrupted our rhythm. I am struggling to recall when we have been able to put out the same back four or midfield in back to back games.

Fifthly we lost Delboy and replaced him with the woefully inadequate Atsu. Last year we had width in spades, this year we are far too narrow.

Lastly we seem to be playing players out of position, Ross was great behind the forward last season and when he had an off game Naisy went in. This season we have tried Ross as a no 10, defensive midfield and even on the wing. Christ I am surprised we haven't given him Tim's gloves for a go in goal! Barry has played centre half, Baines has played midfield, centre halves at full back and we have had strikers on the wings.This maybe due to injuries but I also think it is due to tinkering to try to fit everyone in and keep certain players happy.

All-in-all it has led to what we have now which is a team with no direction, no clear idea of what their doing and low in confidence.

The answer get a defensive coach in to replace Stubbs and go back to the basics like how we had it last season. Fast free flowing passing with wide players, trickery in the final third and a settled back four with two solid anchors in front.

I have supported Everton since 1970 when I would attend most, if not all, home matches before moving down South – since when my attendance at games has become dreadfully sporadic mainly due to distance and difficulty getting tickets. I have raised a family who have all successfully responded to treatment and are all avid Evertonians (including the dog, if only he knew) and 2½-year-old grandson is shaping up nicely.

Now – I am one of the noisiest critics of the "take ’em on, chuck ’em out" mentality in football these days and think DM for one was majorly crapped on by Man Utd (even Fergie was facing the sack in the early days), and I felt quite good about Martinez when he joined for some reason despite the relegation issue. I guess his FA cup success and Swansea history swayed me.

When he raided Wigan for the players he brought over, with the exception of McCarthy, I was somewhat perturbed – especially with Robles, and at the time thought that McManaman might actually have been a more interesting prospect than Robles, Alcaraz or Kone. Doubts creeping in but, hey – give him a chance.

Then we had last season which was quite a nice time to be an Evertonian for the most part, except for finishing with a bit of a whimper.

This season – WTF is going on...?

Insofar as camps and divisions in the club are concerned, I cannot help wondering about the mental state of the ex-Wigan personnel on our books and how their experiences must be (a) affecting their own performance, and (b) rubbing off on our established and new players. I wonder also if there is some sort of loyalty issue going on within the Wigan camp whereby they are sticking together to support RM which is being reciprocated in the team selection, or are they all perhaps intimidated by a sort of control freak personality emanating from RM that we have not seen. IÂ’m sure we can all relate to that kind of situation in everyday life at some time or another, and it is a very disturbing environment to try and perform in.

It is interesting that the fall-out rumours between players and RM are centered largely on the characters who are somewhat stronger willed - Distin, Besic etc. I have coached football at a junior level and always instilled the fact that the game is won as much in the head as it is with the feet – if the head’s in the wrong place the feet simply won’t work properly. And that is where we are now. Every team has it’s share of injuries, suspensions etc so I don’t accept that cop-out excuse, and I do not believe we are physically unfit. Mentally we are morose with a couple of exceptions.

We could start by getting a TOP sports psychologist in on the backroom staff (much as Â’theyÂ’ did last season) which unfortunately would not be an instant fix but would pay dividends this season, as well as the much discussed CD, CM and GK.

Someone needs to stand up to RM, and BK should dish out an ultimatum. Change now or go now – preferably go. (There... I’ve said it.) I do think Joe Royle could rescue this season, maybe try for Irvine to assist and regroup in the summer. Hopefully we can keep all our key players in the meantime! That would be a start.

Myself? I love success, can accept defeat or failure if oneÂ’s done oneÂ’s best, but this utter capitulation we are witnessing this season must be halted NOW. I do not think RM is the man to arrest the slide. Sadly.

We need a minimum of 20 points from our remaining fixtures to get us to 42 points. Monthly points required for survival could be:-

January: WBA (H) = 3 pts; Crystal Palace (A) = 3 pts

February: Leicester (H) = 3 pts

March: Newcastle (H) = 3 pts; QPR (A) = 3 pts

April: Burnley (H) = 3 pts

May: Sunderland (H) =3 pts

At this stage, ALL games are difficult and no doubt there will be a few draws as well, but I think that the above points per month should be achievable as an absolute minimum. Then a summer clear out of the dead wood and re-evaluation of RM's future...

What a contrast to last years optimism... If we lose the next two, then maybe more drastic action is called for. But our Premier League status is paramount.

It is hard to accept that so many things are wrong with team. Apart from the inept defence, how have we allowed the team to age so much without replacing them with younger players? Howard, Distin, Hibbert, Pienaar and Osman should have moved on last season. Then we signed Barry who surprised by having a good first season but is now completely finished.

I think above all our problems is the fact Andy Gray's comment of "Martinez has made Everton soft" is correct. So how will we get some fight and pride back into this team?

Keep posting!

Since Howard Kendall Mk 1, we have had a succession of mediocre managers, with the exception of Joe Royle. We have persevered with a mid-table minded manager for 11 years... and now – when we are in dire need of leadership – we are slipping further and further into major trouble.

It all adds up to one thing: We have been massively let down by Kenwright and Co who shouldn't be in place.

Stubbs wasn’t first team coach.

Excellent post, 100% agree.

Brian 40

That's a good shout and worth a try IMO.

Lots of people here clinging on to the last season performance as the reason to stick (the only reason so far as I can see and iignoring the overwhelming weight of contradictory evidence too) but the more I look at it, well...

In my job, I interview people and the very first I do after looking at the CV is ascertaining whether the list of achievements were actually carried out by the candidate or was he or she just "in the room" when other people did things and they are listing the plaudits for success as their own.

More and more, I am convinced that Martinez was just "in the room" when some overly cautious shackles were removed from Moyes's side, as many of us had called for, and they played with a mix of instilled discipline and organisation and natural instinct. Moyes himself used to say that a well-drilled squad didn't need managing.

But I think even more restrictive and ineffective shackles have gradually been placed on the side and make no mistake, the players are following a Martinez plan since the back end of last season.

RM's vaunted philosophy does not work at all in my opinion, certainly not without 𧴜M+ of investment and possibly not even then. No-one sane will fund such a gamble. I think he is a nice guy but I don't think he can manage at all and he has to go before he does any more damage.

But can I remind people our right back is allegedly being sort after by 2 teams in the top 4, our centre back is an England regular as is our left back. Also John Stones is now a regular with the England squad. I am sure if you offered this back four to most of the Premier League teams they would all accept them with open arms. Possibly only Chelsea have a better back four. Yet Martinez and his tactics have made them look very average.

So, if he can't do it with this back 4 then I wouldn't trust him with any money in the window for a back 4 player but we desperately need a keeper. Although despite having Robles at Wigan, he and his goalkeeping coach both thought he was a good understudy and possible replacement for Howard. How anyone can trust this man's judgement is beyond belief.

However I know that the one person who should be reading this (ie, Martinez) will not take any notice of all of this common sense suggestions. He is stubborn, arrogant and deluded and will continue to play good players in either the wrong position or in an ill-advised system according to his philosophy. He did this at Wigan and he took them down. He will do this to Everton if we stay with him, make no mistake. We are dropping like a stone.

The answer may be to sack him after the West Ham game. I would put Joe Royle in charge until the end of the season and we will see the difference immediately as players become organised, hard to beat and play to a system that works. You will instantly see a change in the players' attitudes. He will keep us up and then we can re-group next season and find another long-term manager.

Martinez has been an experiment and we had one good season with him mainly based on Moyes's defense and the fitness regime that he inherited.

I did want to give Martinez a chance as he is a young manager, has a lot to learn and a manager does need time. However, his 'Know it all' arrogance and poor results have convinced me that, for the sake of the club and to preserve our 'Top Flight' status, he should be removed forthwith. Basically, he has learned nothing from his Wigan days!!!!

Would you have hired him for the manager's position at Everton.? — I know I would not.

It started IMO last January in the Anfield derby when he didn't correct (in game) something that was painfully obvious to anyone who watched. It's continued through watching some of the most turgid boring unimaginative football I've seen and topped off by the fact we are easy meat for just about anyone.

If we stall, we will go down. On Tuesday, it will be more of the same because most of the players have already decided not to bother, which is disgusting. But it is still Bobbys's fault and because of that, he has failed and must go.

For me he is the best out and out defender we have at the club.

To stem this flow of goals we are conceeding I would have Hibbert at right back as soon as he is fit and Coleman in front of him right midfield.

I would have Garbutt or Oviedo left back with Baines left mid.

Until we can stop conceeding goals and get some confidence in the team I would forget playing wide players such as McGeady and even Mirallas who cannot defend, although I do think Mirallas should be used more up front to give us a different option with more pace.

Above all else Barry should have no place in the team.

He's out indefinitely and has started 8 games in the last 3 seasons. His body can't do it any more.