Drama to the end of the shoot-out

We've had enough problems rushing McCarthy and Barry back already. So as much as I want Mirallas in the team, it shouldn't be at the expense of his long-term fitness.

West Ham look really strong with Song back in the middle (one of themost unsung players for me this sseason, no pun intended)

Baines and Coleman will need big games tonight up against Downing and Jarvis, if we allow them two wingers to feed Carroll we will no doubt at some point suffer.

Eto'o surely looks on his way out now..shame.

I believe Eto’o’s agent is setting him up for another big pay day but I could be wrong.

We need the defence to push 10 yards further up the pitch and ensure someone is infront and behind Carroll at every set piece. That with a high tempo, along with more direct passing forward, not sideways, should see us through.

Time will tell but, regardless of how the Hammers have started this season, we should be beating these sort of teams.

Back 7 pick themselves. I really wonder what Oviedo has to do to get into this side. I'd have him in there as AML instead of McGeady or Naismitn. Martinez needs to start using the players available better. He can't have three senior LBs in the squad and only ever play them at LB. Oviedo and to an extent Baines can both play MF. Oviedo showed last season that he's got a lot more in his locker than just playing LB. Certainly can't be worse than playing Eto or Barkley out wide. Would bring a much better balance down the left and give us better defensive cover.

Tonight all depends on how much West Ham want this. If they're up for it with a fit again Carroll, it's going to be tough to day the least. Hoping for the best but no idea what to expect.

I'm not sure how McGeady constitutes as a better defender than Oviedo for away games.

Thank God Robles managed to save our skin thanks to Stones doing our usual per game self destruct job.

Doing alright though.

Why do they have to try and get the ball through to Rom in the box all the time? Have a go yourself FFS!

Only negative point in Barry seems to be back to his usual self after raising his game at the weekend against the club that got rid of him.

Several really poor lazy passes from him.

Not clever by McGeady. There wasnÂ’t much in the challenge, but it gives the WHU player a chance to milk it and the ref a decision to make.

Pity Â’cos McGeady was playing well... more than a year since weÂ’ve won from a losing position. ItÂ’s gonna take a big effort...

I do agree though about RM, I think he should stay until the end of the season and then go. We are pants in almost every aspect of our game and its sad to see.

WeÂ’ve also gone back to pass sideways again after being more direct which is bloody frustrating.This guy I believe is losing the dressing room and its only a matter to time before something big erupts

15 more minutes blues. Hang in there...

Absolutely shitting myself for WBA. Pulis will have them fired up. I hate being negative, I really do, but I just donÂ’t believe in Martinez. But I love this club and just want us all to be able to dream again!!

This was sport at its finest and, for us, itÂ’s cruellest. But we should take heart from a wonderful effort by the players after McGeady went.

The other stand out fact is that Barkley has to be taken out of the team for his own benefit apart from anything else.

Cold realisation, we have too many poor players. Manager not good enough. Chairman wonÂ’t spend.

Just fuck off you useless bastards.

Another chance of a trophy gone and we still canÂ’t win a fucking match.

1 win in 12 matches now fucking appalling.

Yet again two more goals conceded by corners.

Martinez if heÂ’s still here, which IÂ’m very much doubting if this run continues should swallow his pride and go and spend the fucking money on a centre half who can actually go and HEAD THE BALL

Martinez, if heÂ’s still here by the end of the month

Great Spirit again by the guys except the favorites.

Everton were brilliant.
Mirallas was brilliant.

But we was robbed, how was
carroll still on the pitch
noble still on the pitch

We play like that to the end of the season..........IÂ’ll be happy

The best judges of the performance were the 3,000 away fans who stayed to give the team a standing ovation, the players taking their shirts off to give to the fans.

Martinez is so close to putting a very good side together. If we stand by him, we will get our reward.

IÂ’m getting too old for this shit, and the "rebuilding"project enters itÂ’s THIRD decade.

Give me my club back.

Yer Ma wears wellies

ItÂ’s a funny old game indeed!

Get McCarthyÂ’s energy back, and a decent wide man and letÂ’s put the last few months behind us.

I hate going out of the FA CUP, fucking hate it, but letÂ’s get a few wins in the league, so we can then concentrate on Europe.

Unlucky Everton, at least youÂ’ve had ago tonight.

Proud of the boys, but this season they have been let down by a manager who has never operated at their level until he came here

Martinez has been found wanting this season.

IÂ’m sick as fuck

Tonight summed us up perfectly – good enough to compete, not good enough to get over the line.

Like the last twelve games in all competitions, home and away. WeÂ’ve as much backbone as a jellyfish... Martinez OUT.

Worrying times...

I also thought Jagielka was particularly good tonight.

CanÂ’t keep a clean sheet for love nor money.

We canÂ’t BEAT ANYONE

But itÂ’s ok though because now we can concentrate on staying up eh lads?? What a fucking joke!

Barkley should be sent on loan to a Championship club tomorrow and told how to fucking become stronger and learn his trade.

This defeat could totally destroy our season.

CanÂ’t fault the side tonight except McGeady needs dumping. 1 win in 12 is awful with the players we have.

And itÂ’s all down to the manager.

McGeady – you are a waste of fuckin’ space!!! Will you please do the right thing and FUCK OFF!!!

Jokes aside, IÂ’m immensely proud of all of the lads tonight, they showed fight I never thought they had anymore! Special mention to Robles as well, who I have slaughtered on here. He was great tonight, I just hope that penalty miss hasnÂ’t knocked him back because he looked like he was gaining in confidence.

COYB

Disappointed we lost but pleased we are now showing something different. COYB!

McGeady was the ONE player completely UP for this game. He was lively and looked excellent the first half.

He got sent off in a daft challenge, BUT NEVER a yellow card. NEVER! Noble - TWAT that he is, had NO contact whatsoever and went down like Barbie on Ken. Complete cheat and cunt! Always has been, always will be.

NEITHER yellow cards issued to McGeady were cards. But we all need a scapegoat, right?

ANY Blue slagging off our team after THAT effort should be ashamed. We thoroughly deserved to go through and we played with passion, grit, and determination.

IÂ’m sick to the teeth of the crap hurled at McGeady. Some of it may be warranted at times, but itÂ’s WAY over the top.

That kid looked most likely to score in the first half, and that kid was unjustly sent off by a DIVING TWAT of a human being in Noble.

Noble needs to suck on a muffler.

Your one in twelve comments are so elementary, so devoid of intelligence...

Can you not see the effort? Can you not see the change in style and play? We were down, unfairly, to TEN MEN and we responded fantastically.

Jesus, I wonder how you do it, Mr Bottom Line "WeÂ’ve Not Won but 1 in 12". Excellent analysis, Einstein!

Excellent effort from the players! Never mind us they must be sick!!

On another note: offer Mirallas what he wants for a new contract!

Had a good laugh though when some said Allardyce had Â’out thought MartinezÂ’ yeah, it must have been really hard to tell your players that the tactics tonight will be to just keep twating it up to Carrol.

Doff my cap to Robles, had an excellent game and going by that performance we certainly donÂ’t need to be spending millions on a new GK just yet.

Disappointed to be out but we probably could do without the extra games as we need to focus on getting up the league table and save it all for an assault on the EL.

Top effort, couldnÂ’t ask for more. Take a rest and play like that again on Monday.

There was no injustice here, just a game where a team that lacked confidence got into a winning position and bottled it.

IÂ’m not ashamed of them, just horrified how they have forgotten how to win. And how are they going to change that?

A few grumblings though.

McGeady is shockingly bad. How has he managed to work his way into a PL team! I have seen nothing from this lad in 12 months. One of the worst players to have worn the shirt.

Barkley is just an enigma. This season he has seriously lost his way. He doesnÂ’t deserve to be in the squad at present and I feel he needs dropping. I have a feeling he believes his own hype and wants away but that is just speculation.

Why does Besic always have to be the fall guy? Does RM ever remove Barry or McCarthy?

Why only 2 subÂ’s? Surely a pair of fresh legs in ET would have helped the team!

Other than a few exceptions the team look like one again. Battling and chasing everything down which they werenÂ’t doing a few weeks ago. Very proud of them tonight after going a man down.

Onwards and upwards!

Barkley should be sent to the Championship!

Maybe if we had a winger and he wasnÂ’t played out of position by necessity and could run at defenders from the middle of the pitch youÂ’d change your position?

Barkley is playing in a role that does not suit his skill set or talents. You canÂ’t see that, and I wonder if you can ever see the forest through the trees.

SPOT ON!

IÂ’d expect nothing less.

The much maligned Robles actually looked like a keeper. Stones and Jags stood up well to the HammersÂ’ constant air bombardment. Besic again quality. What a player he could become. Super Kev showing why so many of us hold him in such high regard.

If youÂ’re looking for downsides, then McGeady is the obvious one. The guy was actually having a good game, but let himself down with schoolboy stupidity. Ross was poor but will come good so letÂ’s not get on his back.

If we carry on playing like we have in the last two, then we will have a good end to the season.

Song our hearts out. Up the blues.

If weÂ’d shown this "effort" earlier in the season or for the first 89 minutes last week at home to West Ham we may not be in a relegation battle or out the cup.

Fact mate!

One win in twelve is FACT.

No clean sheet since November is FACT!!

Okay, they fought tonight... but Martinez still makes too many mistakes, game-in & game-out.

Our defence is a shambles on crosses no matter who plays there.

We can gloss over this defeat all we like but the fact is we canÂ’t beat ANYONE at present.

Barkley stunk. I donÂ’t know whatÂ’s happened to him, but heÂ’s a liability at the moment. He needs a rest and we need a rest from him.

Jags had a great game, but letÂ’s face it, the defence still looks shaky, particularly at set pieces. Stones will be a great player, but his inexperience showed tonight. Compare how Coleman played Valencia in an almost identical situation to the one where he too easily beat Stones for the first goal. And, it appears we may have found a goalkeeper (though perhaps not a penalty taker).

Look at me – I’m actually a Joel apologist now!

But on to my point: "What Everton team is going to turn up against WBA? ... And, should we lose, then when is it time to call it a day on MartinezÂ’s "philosophy"?

HereÂ’s hoping that we stuff West Brom but there will be no bravado from me... just praying. And that is the sad fact concerning MartinezÂ’s tenure this season..... we just donÂ’t know what to expect.

Everything decent that we do is direct and anti-Martinez’s philosophy. Everything shite comes from his naïvity, philosophy, tactics, bullshit... he’s gotta go.

A cracking game, I was shattered by the end. LetÂ’s hope this doesnÂ’t affect the teamÂ’s confidence... I suspect not, watching the lads go to the away end throwing their shirts to the fans.

LetÂ’s push on, Blues.

Roberto thought that we had enough talent to stick to his guns and PLAY our way, through possession football, through this malaise.

Through a Come to Jesus meeting with Rom and players, heÂ’s allowed an adjustment.

We are now playing very, very good entertaining yet more cautious football.

But he STILL gets shit from people like you who say only 1 in 12.

FACT! - We are playing with passion and verve.

FACT! - weÂ’ve made an adjustment to our playing style improving the performances.

FACT! - Roberto was FLEXIBLE enough to allow this!

FACT! - Our players have responded because they love their manager.

FACT! - We should have won tonight.

FACT! - Anyone who canÂ’t see that and appreciate it is lacking any foresight or intelligence.

Give you broken record a rest - itÂ’s a shit song youÂ’re singing - full of crap and shite.

I simply canÂ’t take your glass half empty crap any longer. IÂ’ve every right to post as such.

If you canÂ’t see how beautiful a game of footy tonightÂ’s game was and you insist on focusing on the negatives - after we played with such heart and passion with TEN MEN, I think your negative contributions should be directly taken to task.

You can talk about performance and character and positives and moving forward... but we havenÂ’t won a game of football for a long time. I donÂ’t want performances and effort and guts and heart. I want a result. A straight up, old fashioned win. P> How long am I going to wait? February? March? April We can be the gutsiest, toughest, best performing side in the Championship. At this pace, thatÂ’s where we are going.

Waring at 98 spot on.

Jamie Crowley #73.
"Noble needs to suck on a muffler"
Good to see the spirit of Noel Coward lives on....

I agree, McGeady was much improved and looked lively, he was also providing defensive cover that Barkley does not ever look interested enough in providing on the other flank, time for a few games on the bench so he can watch Oviedo.

Naismith might just be the new Cahill, a player who will run through brick walls for 90 minutes, is great in the air, has great movement off the ball but unfortunately does not have the close control or touch needed for a team who rely on creativity. He scores, thank goodness, as we have needed his goals but moves break down a lot of the time when he fails to find a blue shirt and when he does not score it really does highlight this.

Spot on, I watched in on a stream on the PC but the first thing I thought watching it was McGeady looks up for it tonight! I am not his greatest fan.

The first yellow card was one those that gets given in the modern era. The second one, yes he slid in but it wasnÂ’t a yellow.

I think there is no harm at times keeping the ball as it takes the sting out of teams and, to be honest, even though West Ham pressed us, I can think of only one glaring error in possession made by Stones, the rest of the passing I thought was good up until the final third.

We do look better when we mix it, in particular, Lukaku, who really appears to like the ball forward quickly and into space. Barkley needs to come out though, his awareness for a lad who is lauded as the next big thing is nothing short of appalling for a central midfielder. His range and choice of pass is shocking.

The only negatives for me: We cannot defend corners under this manager and if Kev was fit for the second half and extra time why wasnÂ’t he fit to start the game and go for the early goal?

Carroll had far less right to stay on the pitch than McGeady but we canÂ’t seem to find a referee who favours us.

I respectfully - and I do mean respectfully - disagree re McGeadyÂ’s second yellow. Watch it again. Noble dove. Simple as. No contact.

Was McGeadyÂ’s boot high? Yes. Was there any contact whatsoever? NO!

Any ref worth his salt (and this ref was complete crap, missing a ton of calls even many that went OUR way) heÂ’d of never pulled a second yellow for that challenge.

First one, okay IÂ’m a bit pissed right now fair enough. Second? Never in a MILLION YEARS.

Noble is a cunt twat diving douche bag.

I also think McGeady was having one of his best games for us, full of running but, sadly, a bit too energetic in his tackling for this referee.

Robles - excellent. Coleman and Baines getting back to their best. Stones and Jags starting to gel. Barry and Besic fought like lions. Mcgeady was playing well but.... Ross, very poor. Needs to be played centrally or dropped. Nessie bit wasteful but what a battler. Lukaku, grew into the game and got stronger as the game progressed. Bryan and Kevin gave us balance and width.

Roberto made the changes and was almost rewarded. HeÂ’s certainly getting his act together again.

JimÂ’s big problem is one win from twelve.

You watch the "magnificent phenomenal amazing performance" of a team at Reading, Wigan and QPR. The rest of us might mourn what weÂ’ve lost.

Martinez is the manger of Everton Football Club. He got us a record points total of 72 last season and a memorable season it was!

The players are not calling the shots. They approached their leader and suggested changes. Anyone in a leadership position knows you need to listen...

Roberto did, and allowed the changes to happen. Not the other way around.

And weÂ’re better off for it, so well done Roberto.

Ironically, if McGeady hadnÂ’t been sent off, I donÂ’t think we would be writing anything positive about tonightÂ’s performance. Showing guts with 10 men was admirable and filled me with pride, but how we were playing with 11 was worrying.

What I donÂ’t understand on this site is how people take other peopleÂ’s opinions so personally. As if itÂ’s a direct attack on themselves. Jim Bennings is correct. 1 win in 12 is absolute shite, and people saying we have turned a corner because we have drawn 2 at home and now lost 1 on pens.... well, er... I respectfully disagree.

IMHO, Martinez should partner Barkley with either Besic or McCarthy, and keep him there for the rest of the season, rather than switching between the 3 AMs and ask him to do a Fabregas box-to-box job.

The 2 holders in midfield isnÂ’t working defensively nor are they creative enough. Time for a change but RM seems to love Barry.

Still, didnÂ’t hear much of Barry and really not getting his constant inclusion, nor the playing of Naismith/Barkley/EtoÂ’o in the same position.

I said after the Man City game, I would take going out of the cup if it meant us getting the right results in our next couple of league games. Nothing more than 3 points will do against West Brom at our place and then on to Palace. We will need the spirit shown tonight by our lads come next Monday night, letÂ’s hope they bring it!

The cup is gone and West Brom was always a bigger and more important match than tonight anyway given our current league position – IT IS A MUST WIN.

So, 3 points against West Brom, draw or win against Palace and of course 3 points against our biggest rivals is what we need!

If I have criticism of RM tonight it would be for the removal of Besic, as others have said. DidnÂ’t understand that. I also think Kone probably should have come on for Naismith.

Two home draws and a loss from a winning position do not a turnaround make. What the fuck do I know... letÂ’s give Roberto another twelve games and see where we are, aye?

Neil at 77, I agree entirely with your comment. David James was never a great keeper and his views are frankly irrelevant. At least Steve McMannaman offered some impartial and objective analysis.

ItÂ’s indisputable fact weÂ’ve won 1 in 12.

But can you not see the adjustments? The complete change in approach and play?

How is that not a positive and how can you see that run of form continuing?

ps: Sorry about the "delusional" comment. I respectfully disagree. That was out of line.

I agree the ref was shocking and he seemed hell bent on letting Carroll elbow his way through our team. Maybe at Goodison McGeady might have got away with it but it was a ridiculous full-speed sliding challenge which had the crowd baying for blood.

Stand out performers – Kev and Rom. The latter was getting the fans up for it when all seemed lost at 1-0 and 10 men. I think Rom may be with us for along time.

Everton fans are too easy pleased. The Redshite are having a teat of a season yet are in a cup semi-final whilst we have slumped out of both cups first time of asking again and we are in a dire league position to add to it.

"My girlfriend came over 3/4 of the way through the first half. I said to her that McGeady was EvertonÂ’s Man of the Match so far. I mean down that right flank he was tearing WHU a new arsehole. It was so obvious to me that he would be the one to be sent off. Did anyone else notice how many fouls that Carroll shite got away with? Elbows in faces. Why was that twat afforded so much protection and given so much leeway??"

ThereÂ’s only so much of a game can be bent before it becomes obvious. Tonight was one of those games...

I concur at 129 and again my apologies. Defo hit the "return" button far too quickly.

YouÂ’re 100% correct.

Tonight, he went on a few runs and just glided past opponents but, while I was screaming for him to shoot, he just seemed to be unsure of himself, stopped and either passed or lost the ball.

IÂ’d take him out for a few games. It did Rom the world of good.

I thought that the lads heads would sink once we conceded and McGeady was sent off. But there was a lot of fight tonight. IÂ’ve got absolutely no fear about being sucked into a relegation battle after the the last three games.

IÂ’m really pleased for Robles too. It seems his confidence is growing and so are his performances. Irrespective of whether we buy our new GK this window. I find it hard to see Howard automatically getting his place from Robles for the remainder of the season. Which is a very good thing IMO.

Yes, our league position is perilous. But itÂ’s form and quality that matter.

When you consider that and look at our recent games and effort applied, how can you even go down that road?

Jim, when we lose, I understand your frustration. But the constant drum of The Sky Is Falling is just over the top.

Sadly, though, IÂ’ve uttered that phrase too often during the last 40 years as we bow out of another cup competition. Oh for a lucky win!

As soon as he stops thinking he is better than he really is, and gets his head down and works for the team, he may start showing how good he can be.

Jim, Jim, Jim. We are NOT going to get relegated. Get that out of your head once and for all. Once you overcome this psychosis, you will feel a lot better and, I promise you, enjoy the rest of the season.

IÂ’m gutted we lost the game but a corner has definitely been turned. Like some have already said, for me, the WBA game is far more important than tonightÂ’s match. The league is our bread and butter. We need to start moving up the table as each place is worth a lot of money.

LetÂ’s concentrate on the league and, hopefully, enjoy a good run in the EL.

IÂ’m a massive admirer of Barkley and feel he has the potential to be up there with the very best but I canÂ’t disagree with you. I think he needs a rocket up his arse and some desire to put a proper shift in.

I donÂ’t mind the ball being lost in certain areas of the pitch and with players like him, that is always going to happen. But watching him closely in his last few games and I get so frustrated seeing him give up so easy on things and fanny into tackles. The lads a big strong unit and needs to use that so much more.

㿙M? you must be joking, snap their hands off!

There is some legitimacy in both your points of view, though you both have a poor grasp of the differences between fact, opinion, pure fabrication and speculation.

Your differing views are clearly polarized, but any coherent point you are trying to make is drowned in banshee-like screaming hysteria. This effectively diminishes or even totally invalidates whatever point you are trying to make.

Feel the love.

GROUP HUG! (even though you Englishman think thatÂ’s rather "faggoty")

IÂ’m just pissed we lost. Pissed Rom didnÂ’t finish that chance on 118 minutes! Pissed some people are slagging off players unfairly in my opinion. Pissed we are not through because the way we are now playing I could see us making a "proper" run at silverware in the FA Cup.

IÂ’m gonna go home, keep drinking, and slosh myself to sleep.

GUTTED!

He was taking one for the team for yet another poor Barry pass.

I took my young sons to Goodison for the first time on Saturday and I was shitting myself. The players are a bag of nerves and it fills me with no confidence.

Jamie Crowley, I do accept there has been improvements. But, I donÂ’t think theyÂ’re down to RM. I think weÂ’re witnessing a bit of player power. IÂ’m just thankful that the players are showing fight and determination. Long may that continue.

Please, Jim, tell it as it was if you must, but also acknowledge how it has been over the last few games, otherwise you make yourself an easy target for "nobhead" comments.

Group hugs are never to be considered. Minimally a hand shake. Past that... nope.

You could see that coming a mile off. I would suspect that Martinez did not specifically warn McGeady about these standard (you can see them every week actually) Allardyce tactics, as generally exemplified by his most horrible players, Nolan and Carroll (in a team which also has Tompkins and Collins).

Although if he had we may well have seen us going out with a whimper rather than like the lions we turned out to be. Plus, can I remind you that before you gloss over the whole match and rewrite history, prior to the sending off we had a single shot on target compared to a hatul of good chances which the outstanding Robles fended off.

Yeah, I would say the Allardyce tactics were working much better and the character of the players came through when they threw any game plan out of the window after the sending off and had to rely on character alone.

Plus Barkley needs a lot more stick rather than endless carrot he seems to be getting right now. Shocking ill-disciplined performance from a very talented kid who needs proper coaching right now.

Kevin, Besic has admitted he needs to beef up a bit. The lad is going to be a monster, our own Matic if you like.

I think Roberto made the right movie bringing on Kev and Bryan to give us more width but Besic was superb once again tonight.

I can take your point, but the condescending, "though you both have a poor grasp of the differences between fact, opinion, pure fabrication and speculation" makes me wonder if you feel youÂ’re judge and jury.

Or maybe Jesus?

I was, overall, quite impressed with last season and maybe a little disappointed we didnÂ’t do better.

No point in listing all the events, facts, none facts, rumours and allegedlies here, but we all have seen them and believe as much or little as we do or do not. Something, for what ever reason, Â’seemedÂ’ to change in the last 3 games.

The only thing that hasnÂ’t changed is we are still not winning.

We are out of the cup. We are 1 point NEARER the relegation group than we were after Hull.

If we keep up with the Â’ Changed Attitude Â’ we may see a slow climb out of out tailspin. Is it Â’papering over the cracksÂ’ or Â’green shootsÂ’ Like I said; I want Martinez to do well, but for now it will have to be the old stand by of...

Â’ One game at a time Â’

I donÂ’t presume that my opinion is the only valid one. I do not consider my opinions or standards superior to others.

I enjoy genuine debate, though I admit to having little patience with strident voices resorting to ad hominem insults once the premises of their arguments have been undermined or merely challenged.

The comments you consider condescending are justified. A quick scan of your own and JimÂ’s posting post match reveal this quite clearly.

And whilst I respect all religions and their devotees, as a non-believer of any faith, I certainly would not regard myself as JC.

May peace be upon you ...

The next two games are massive for the manager now. If, god forbid, results go the wrong way in those then where is the light at the end of the tunnel?

It saddens me to say it, as Martinez banked a lot of credit with me for the way he managed us for the majority of last season, but how long do you let the situation drift? Defeats quickly rack up, winning becomes a rarity and draws arenÂ’t really enough.

One thing I donÂ’t agree on though is that the shambles this season is Â’solelyÂ’ down to the manager.

Take tonights game for example. One of the better performances in the last few months but still way too many unforced mistakes. You can talk all day about it being entirely predictable that West Ham would score from a set piece, but it was equally as predictable (and frustrating) that a goal would come from the players sloppily switching off and not being alert to danger. A quick turnover in possession, a long ball down the pitch, and it was panic stations once again with players plodding back into position, seemingly unprepared for the possibility of a pacey counter. Inexcusable, no matter what instructions youÂ’re playing to.

Lukaku had two gilt-edged chances that a gimp with a glass eye could have converted into goals. Stones was uncharacteristically slow to react for both of their strikes. McGeadey showed he possesses all the mental capacity of that big fucking monkey Clyde that used to be bezzy mates with Clint Eastwood, bounding into a wild and reckless challenge after already being booked. Shithouse stupidity of the highest order that was. Leaving your teammates to try and overturn a deficit with ten men when youÂ’re down on your luck and desperate for a result.

Yes, the players battled to the end, but shouldnÂ’t that be the least we expect from someone in the blue shirt? ItÂ’s only being lauded so loudly right now because, for much of the season so far, it has looked like any last vestige of fighting spirit had long since fucked off. ItÂ’s something to grab on to but itÂ’s certainly not a sure sign that a turner has been turned.

Main positives to be taken from the game: Mirallas looked right up for it after his recent half-hearted efforts and Robles proved himself to be undeserving of the scarlet letter Phil Walling prematurely smeared on his shirt. Thought they were both superb tonight.

I really like your passion, but going too overboard is just as bad as the incessant doom and gloom. Apologies if that comes over as patronising, not what I intend at all.

For me, all we answered tonight were some questions about the character of our lads, which was terrific and a real ray of light in the gloom. Plus we learned I think that there is a keeper somewhere there in Robles who really can challenge the complacent Tim Howard.

We still did not play very well tonight I think, and we have had (technically) two draws and one loss in the last three and only really have a single point in the FOR column from all three games. As well, I donÂ’t think you can draw any conclusions about Martinez from tonight in my opinion, that was a magnificent roll your sleeves up effort from the players. Still too many off their game though.

However, that level of performance if carried through to the league is what is necessary to compensate when your form is off and is what can grind out the necessary wins, and more than anything that is what we have lacked all this season.

Big test to see if we get that commitment on Monday, weÂ’ll be fine if we do. But I am still convinced RM is not for us. If only he had practiced defending in general and defending from corners specifically rather than taking pride in saying it is not in his philosophy, we may have held out the last 10 mins or so and actually be celebrating a famous victory now rather than a plucky little Everton loss. I am much more gutted at not holding on to the lead than losing on the lottery of penalties.

Well that was totally unbiased, I mean that twat of a ref should of put on a hammers top and sung IÂ’m blowing fucking bubbles, or whatever shite it is that they sing at West Ham.

The officiating over the past few games has been as one sided as IÂ’ve ever seen and if Pulis has been watching us play, then he will know that this club is getting seriously turned over by the men in black.

What the fuck is going on when the ref refuses to see Carroll doing GBH to any player wearing a Chang shirt, then you have that fuck wit Noble diving about two hours before McGeady got near him and finally, Nolan, walking round like one of the Kray twins dishing out his usual anti-Everton tackles. Oh yeah, the creme-de-la-creme, we even had our compulsory penalty fucked off when Mirallas was upended whilst trying to play football.

I thought the officiating at Man City was bad but Stoke and Newcastle were equally as shite. As for tonight?? Fuck me, we need help, I mean all 4 games were as close to being fixed as you can get.

Wenger telling all and sundry that AJ was a diver was bad enough but why do refÂ’s have it in for us?? Why?? For me RM needs to take a fine and say something to the media about the officiating, yeah, something like "Fuck off and die you totally biased twats".

I have to tip my hat to Robles. He was terrific. I slated him after the first game against West Ham for his aerial ability but he was very impressive tonight all round. He was claiming crosses and catching the ball but also punching when required and making several excellent saves.

It was a total shame he missed the last penalty. He didnÂ’t deserve that.

The comments you consider condescending are justified. A quick scan of your own and JimÂ’s posting post match reveal this quite clearly.

Says who? You?

Hmmmm.....

Peace be with you, and with your Spirit.

As am I

Cheers.

But the other thing I take from that match which niggles away at me is thinking about their equalizer in the context of Graeme JonesÂ’s startling comments when some players went to speak with him about the lack of training on defending set-pieces: oh we need to do other things coz thereÂ’s only two or three set pieces to defend each match.

Unxxxxbelieveable!

Jones should be symbolically strung up for that unprofessional crap and his words should forever be imposed on a video of that HammersÂ’ leveller that is played every fecking day at Finch Farm.

Chuffed to bits for Robles who I never bad-mouthed for the simple reason that I had never seen enough of him. IÂ’m beginning to now and IÂ’m as I say chuffed yet startled to see him still getting hammered by a few on the live forum tonight!

Worrying thing is it was because Martinez was forced into setting us up with more shape & balance. Instead of the shapeless, impotent, attacking full-back nullifying (ours), Barkley-destroying mess he prefers.

And Oviedo needs to play.

A large part of the individual error thing is unfortunately the coaching and the emphasis on what is important.

Individual responsibility, ethic and the idea of the collective has diminished. This manager doesnÂ’t place any or enough emphasis on the dirty work. Play with arrogance. The centre backs play not as a pair but as individuals.

He was loading teams all wrong at the beginning of the season and they are still unbalanced.

Wigan led the league in errors to goals when they went. ItÂ’s not a coincidence.

Form and quality count for nothing.

ItÂ’s results that count.

McGeady will deservedly cop dogÂ’s abuse for getting sent off but, up to that point, he was probably having his best game this season. HeÂ’s got talent and could do with a run of games to find his form... real shame.

IÂ’ve defended Barkley to the hilt but tonight was the tipping point. Yes, he has something special but we just arenÂ’t going to see it. If someone will pay big money and can help him have a great career then we should consider it... I just canÂ’t see someone as low on energy ever being a success at Everton.

Mirallas was truly exceptional when he came on. God please keep him fit.

I hope that game was the making of Robles. He was brilliant tonight. I was saying to my Dad when the final whistle went that the story was set – Robles the unlikely hero but then when he stepped up it was clear it was a different story playing out. The best bit about his performance was watching his confidence build after he caught Carroll the first time... every time he came out he went a bit harder at the ex-RS streak of piss. That’s what a proper goalkeeper does!!! I’ll be amongst many eating my entire hat collection if he turns out any good.

So real shame. I love the FA Cup but I guess we now concentrate on climbing the league and going all out for the EL. Really feel that my Everton is back. Everything about that game was pure Everton.

IÂ’m certainly not getting into any more discussions on you know who. For some he tries hard and does a job, for some he is totally useless and never plays well and for some heÂ’s not the sharpest pencil in the box. Opinions are set on this lad and I have other things to worry about in my life.

We certainly didnÂ’t deserve to lose this game and Robles and Mirallas were a class apart. Not so Barkley who continues to struggle. No excuses for Lukaku missing two absolute sitters and for several of his team-mates to concede needless corners and not defend them properly. Sorry, Mr Martinez, but set pieces are an important part of a football match.

Richard Gough reckons Barkley, Stones and others were missing real leadership and he might be right. Imagine Stones trying to dribble his way out of the box with Stubbs and Weir next to him. No chance.

The problem is he believes his own hype and has contributed virtually nothing to team in this latest bad run. As some of our posterÂ’s have said he should be on the bench watching players who put in real shift.

The take away for me is that Barks has to be replaced by a harder working wide player such as Oviedo and if MirallasÂ’ ankle is up to it, McGeady to be benched.

Martinez and his stafd have still not got to grips with basic defending. In the first minute Coleman played Valencia on side and continually the back line was all over the show positionally.

Our set piece defending is a shambles and we never look like keeping a clean sheet.

One win in 12, no clean sheets tells its own story. I canÂ’t see how we will put a consistent run together until the management and coaching staff instill organisation, leadership and discipline into our defending.

A drop to the bench maybe good for him. He is half hearted in his attempts to tackle, well he just doesnÂ’t. Shame really as I think he would thrive in a team playing with confidence.

Onto the next game and pressure is mounting. Make no mistake even playing with all the fight in the world will not stop you going down if you donÂ’t win.

Surely having eleven outfield players would set opposing teams a tactical mystery whilst offering us an extra attacking option ?

Nope, doesnÂ’t make sense to me. Practice defending please and stop shipping goals for free.

Also, if you donÂ’t practice defending......who do the attackers practice against ?

Was there a plan last night? From my seat it looked like the players had plenty of passion and character. Â’BobbyÂ’ offered characteristically little, except his usual tosh at the end of the match.

End-to-end entertainment... very reminiscent of Newcastle with Keegan. Not what we need for the relegation fight we are now in.

Sadly, Bob and his merry band of acolytes have bought another couple of weeks for BK to procrastinate – just enough time to lose any incumbent the opportunity of a transfer window.

One day, soon, we will deeply regret this... I hope IÂ’m wrong, but the evidence is undeniably strong.

Luckily, our players showed more determination than Jim and Chris, who gave up during the second half, and threw their toys out of the pram in the process. Congratulations, you do not like the manager, and you are in a pretty full club at the moment. But guess what, United fans didnÂ’t like Ferguson. Spurs fans were calling for PochettinoÂ’s head a few weeks ago, in response to their poor form. Multiple people on here lambasted Naismith, because he was useless and not of Premier League quality. Robles has been written off by most of the Everton fanbase. Sometimes fans are wrong..sometimes a little patience is needed.

Martinez will not be a Ferguson, but he deserves a little time to turn things around because of last season. Dismissing our recent Â’drawsÂ’ is missing the point, because those draws demonstrated a return of the spirit, and performances, which will take us clear of trouble. It also demonstrated that our players will stand up when things are not working, and that our manager will listen. This team will not go down, and IÂ’ll be winning to take the money of anyone who thinks they will. We have had a shit season, and we unfortunately have to accept that. We need to continue to play with more directness, and to play to the strengths of Lukaku and Mirallas, because they are our best attacking assets. We need to get a few wins on the board, and then kick on in the Europa, because that, and finishing as high up the table as we can, is all we have left now.

McGeady deserved to go, you make a challenge like that in 2015 and the intent gets you the yellow.

How can a referee get away with bottling two major decisions like that in 1 game (yes two, if the Stones handball had been the other way round we would have been demanding a pen).

Everybody going to the game on Monday needs to be singing RoblesÂ’ name and let the lad know just how well he did his proper job last night (needs to practice facing penalties though).

How come so many people knew how bad Naismith was at penalties before he took his? IÂ’ve never seen him take one before, did I miss something?

As far as "no-nothing imbecilles" is concerned they are your words. Your post was a bit over the top in my opinion. I never have or never will call anyone who has a different point of view from me that, on this site or off it for that matter. I donÂ’t think Harold would either.

I will however, disagree with anyoneÂ’s point of view or give them a roasting if I think they are wrong or out of order.

What Harold did do, was challenge Lynden on another thread, regarding what he considered an unfair criticism of McGeady. ThatÂ’s part of what ToffeeWeb is all about isnÂ’t it?

As far as McGeadyÂ’s performance last night and getting sent off is concerned, it seems that yet again, that there are diametrically opposiing views as posted above. I canÂ’t comment as I didnÂ’t see the game - I was at work.

IÂ’ll record it tonight, watch it tomorrow night, and post again.

Still the basics of no covering defenders leaving multiple one on ones with the last man. Players jogging back after an attack breaks down. If Robles had not had the game of his life so far we could easily have been out of sight in normal time, whilst up to the sending off we had one shot on target. The reason I get so angry is these things are the first that even a mediocre manager could fix an Martinez seems to refuse to do so. These things are not being fixed - where is the magic wand then if he does not apply discipline and organisation? This, by the way, is despite Martinez saying we had to get back to basics a while ago. He needs to walk the walk.

Yes it was a great effort but yet again we shipped soft goals and could not close out a game which is a Martinez trademark.

If only we could win ugly now and again

I hope youÂ’ve calmed down and are less hysterical after a good nightÂ’s sleep.

To respond to your last post to me. Yes, I do say you and Jim Bennings in your squabble last night, although there was some legitimacy in both your points of view, you both showed a poor grasp of the differences between fact, opinion, pure fabrication and speculation.

There were many examples in your multiple posts last night, but I’ll focus on just one – post 95 – in which you listed 6 FACTS alongside other comments.

"Roberto thought that we had enough talent to stick to his guns and PLAY our way, through possession football, through this malaise." Speculation and fabrication.

"Through a Come to Jesus meeting with Rom and players, heÂ’s allowed an adjustment." Speculation.

"We are now playing very, very good entertaining yet more cautious football." Opinion

"FACT! - We are playing with passion and verve." Opinion – passion yes, verve no. More like nerve.

"FACT! - weÂ’ve made an adjustment to our playing style improving the performances." Opinion.

"FACT" - Roberto was FLEXIBLE enough to allow this!" Speculation.

"FACT! - Our players have responded because they love their manager." Fabrication and speculation.

"FACT! - We should have won tonight." Opinion.

"FACT! - Anyone who canÂ’t see that and appreciate it is lacking any foresight or intelligence." Opinion.

"Any ref worth his salt (and this ref was complete crap, missing a ton of calls even many that went OUR way) heÂ’d of never pulled a second yellow for that challenge." Opinion and speculation.

"The players are not calling the shots." Speculation.

"Roberto listened, and allowed the changes to happen. Not the other way around." Speculation.

"And weÂ’re better off for it, so well done Roberto." Opinion.

So in your long list of claims there is not one single indisputable fact. But there is lots of opinion, speculation and fabrication.

To be fair, I did find two examples of fact stated by you in 2 other posts. @ 123 you said "ItÂ’s indisputable fact weÂ’ve won 1 in 12" and @ 134 when you said "Yes, our league position is perilous."

I hope this clarifies things for you and gives you a better grasp of what constitutes fact, opinion, speculation and fabrication.

Our club shapelessly stumbles from one pathetic performance to the next, soon to depart from our last remaining cup competition no doubt, and itÂ’s no consolation that Kenwright know has a fellow bullshitter running the show.

ItÂ’s not good enough and Martinez must be told that the next 2 games are MUST WIN, no excuses, or you walk.

The consequences of anything else are frightening.

I was thrilled with the display when we went down to 10. Surely you could see that we were shite when we had 11? You believe that Martinez changed his tactics, I believe the players showed guts and passion and played the only way they could with 10 men. They worked hard and became more direct.

The same shite tactics and mistakes were there for all to see until the sending off. Does this not concern you? As I said last night, I would love for Martinez to turn it around. But for him to do this he has to accept that his system doesnÂ’t work. HeÂ’s struggling to do that as it is everything that he stands for.

I feel for the guy. But I believe we need a manager who can implement change when Plan A isnÂ’t working. I donÂ’t think Martinez is that man. I donÂ’t believe a top class manager would make the same mistakes over and over again.

Stating that other managers turned things around when given time is pointless as there are many other examples of managers staying in a job too long and taking their team down... such as Martinez.

I donÂ’t believe in him but applaud all that do. I hope that youÂ’re right and IÂ’m wrong. I truly do.

Anybody else think Jagielka and Stones had each others boots on last night?

I know (and understand why...) there are plenty calling for RobertoÂ’s head, but I honestly donÂ’t think Bill will pull the trigger any time soon.

That is not to say Bill will NEVER pull the trigger this season if, say, come March or April we are in an even more precarious position than now, à la mode of Walter Smith pre-Moyes.

Bill WILL protect EvertonÂ’s best interests if it comes to that, rather than shield the individual, Roberto Martinez. And for those saying we canÂ’t afford to pay off Roberto in such a scenario, the response is easy: we canÂ’t afford to lose our PL status. There is no comparison between the two as to which would be more costly.

I donÂ’t hold with Jim KnightleyÂ’s (and others) view that Roberto "deserves time" based on last seasonÂ’s performance. ItÂ’s only the here and now that counts.

And as enthralling as last nightÂ’s game was and as evident as the improvement has been in commitment in the last 3 days, the stark facts remain ...

* we are still awaiting our first win in 12 games since mid-November
* we have failed to keep a clean sheet in all those games since the win in Wolfsburg
* we have managed only 3 clean sheets in the league all season

And for all the encouragement we may draw from the last 3 performances, the bottom line is ...
* we are out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle (having had the advantage of a home draw)
* those games won us just 1 point in the league
* we have gleaned a miserly 5 points from a possible 27 in our last 9 league games
* every other club in the league in that run has gathered more points than Everton, as the ever closing gap at the bottom reveals

Yes, in the last 3 games we have finally seen what should ALWAYS be a bare minimum requirement when playing for Everton: fight and commitment.

But equally, behind that, we can still see evidence of core problems that have plagued and undermined our season since August.

The triumphalism of some, so desperate are we to take joy from EvertonÂ’s results at this time, is premature.

We need wins. And FAST!

Then, on Saturday, he was by some distance the poorest performer in our side in what was a generally much better team performance.

Last night, again, a personal contribution that only draws accusations of costing the team. the second tackle would put a pub player to shame – just simply naïve and stupid.

That aside, thanks lads for showing pride in the shirt. ItÂ’s all most of us ever want and expect.

It really saddens me to see McGeady in the same side as Mo (Besh) and Rom: these are two footballers of rare distinction by our recent standards and what they must think of our manager putting the utterly, absolutely hopeless (that is a polite understatement) McGeady in the side before Oviedo, Mirallas and even Atsu, inter alia, I shudder to think.

My favourite moment of last night was Rom’s penalty – just such class, from the run-up to the poised body movement and position, to the hesitation at the right moment, to the assured strike of the ball.

On another note: really sad to see that Sam is probably on his way. I feel his departure marks a major defeat for Martinez and his (doctrinaire) ideals. McGeady stays but Eto’o goes. I shall be sad to see him go. He has class (and he is not a winger). The episode does Everton’s name no good in world football – and that saddens me further.

1. FACT: We held the champions and the #1 equal team which had won several on the trot to a 1-1 draw
2. FACT: We forced a West Ham team in good form (7th Place) to a replay and then fought back from a 1-0 deficit and a 1-man disadvantage at their home ground and nearly won.
3. FACT: We have had our key players in McCarthy, Stones, Mirallas injured for a very long time in the last 12 games. McCarthy is in fact still out injured.
4. FACT: We have been hurt in at least one game in the last 12 by a player who should have been red carded (he was fined later for an elbow incident on Seamus).
5. FACT: We have changed our style in the last 3 games. We mix the passing with balls and long balls more frequently now. (I can dig up the statistics if you insist.)

We forced a replay with West ham?!!!! Uh, how is that a positive? We scraped a draw at home and then lost the away tie.

WeÂ’ve had injuries?! So have every club. And many believe that our injuries are due to the way our players are managed.

Fact 4 is basically saying that refereeing decisions have gone against us. Again, all teams can say that. Especially the teams in the bottom half of the table.

Fact 5 we mix our style. And thus far still havenÂ’t won a match.

All of these facts can be highlighted in any way you please. The indisputable fact is that we need to get results and fast.

I was proud of the team last night, prouder still of that wonderful support; I think we are on the mend and the improvement will continue.

IÂ’ve criticised Mirallas in the past for his lack of effort; last night, he was excellent. Notice he was playing from a more central position and was involved more in that role; maybe thatÂ’s his best position... he was signed as a striker.

Some of our work last night was particularly incisive and we only lacked the finishing.

Defensively, Stones was frankly poor last night. It should be acknowledged that he is still raw and will inevitably make mistakes of positioning and closing down. He is not yet the finished product by any means and nor should we expect him to be.

I agree that Kenwright will back RM and at the moment he is right to do so. But I also agree that he will act if we are truly threatened with relegation. I think that would apply if we were to lose the next two games, with Liverpool then to follow. On the evidence of last night, I believe the team is good enough to win through and to steady the ship for the rest of the season.

We will know much better where we stand by the end of this month.

While I agree McGeady looked good in the first half last night, his end product was very poor. What I think we are badly missing is somebody to unlock opposition defences. Barkley can do it but its not happening for him at the moment. Nasimith tries but does not seem to have the ability.

Going forward I am concerned by the pressure on us to beat teams such as West Brom, that will park the bus, with the players we have. Mirallas can certainly be a huge threat (especially looking at last night performance) but we always seem to setup with a threat like his on only one side of the pitch. This makes it a lot easier for teams to close us down.

Maybe Oviedo in front of Baines on the left and Mirallas on the right is the answer but I am not sure its good enough. I think this is the position we badly need to look to fill in this transfer window – not easy to do but I think it would balance the team better and make us much harder to defend against.

We need to get results yes, but a lucky win with poor play and referee giving us some breaks is not going to show any turn around (e.g. the QPR win). The players attitude / tactical changes on the pitch, which leads to visible (but perhaps statistically meaningless) performances that will bring about a turn of form.

But - hey-hoy! To respond to you.

1. A good result, which I celebrated on TW, declaring if we continue to show the same commitment wins will follow.

2. Equally factual is that we had home advantage over West Ham and - again! - didnÂ’t win, which led to the replay and ... defeat and exit from the FA Cup at the first hurdle.

Plenty of praise from me last night about fighting back with just 10 men, but you make like to review your claim that WHU are a team in Â’good form.Â’ Are you aware that is their first win in seven games since beating the mighty Leicester City on 20 December?

ItÂ’s happened a lot to Everton lately, hasnÂ’t it? Enabling struggling out of form sides to break their duck? A Â’nearly winÂ’ isnÂ’t Â’nearly enoughÂ’ right now, is it Nigel?

3. Yup! We have injuries ... and other clubs donÂ’t?

4. Yup! And again, we are the only club that suffers injustices at the hands of refs?

Shall we list the penalty Swansea should have got when Alcaraz imitated Big Nev in his prime, which would have turned a 0-0 draw into a 1-0 defeat? Or the fact RomeluÂ’s goal against WHU in the league game was offside and a 2-1 win should have been a 1-1 draw? Or the penalty that should have been awarded against Barry at Hull in the first 3 minutes? As he was booked later in the game, perhaps he was lucky not to have been on a second yellow card and dismissed before Alcaraz actually was? Or even the penalty not awarded against John Stones last night?

ItÂ’s a silly game, isnÂ’t it Nigel? This revisionism lark, but - hey! You started it!

5. Yes, we have changed our style in the last 3 games. And...? It hasnÂ’t resulted in any wins yet, has it?

I think right now Nigel, the facts, data and statistics on this season are overwhelming in favour of just how poor Everton have been and how precarious our ever-worsening position is becoming.

Bobby, is it MartinezÂ’s fault when Barkley picks the ball up and runs into a dead end by trying to take everyone on?

Is it MartinezÂ’s fault when Barkley gives the ball away and then just stands there as the opposing team break away?

Is it MartinezÂ’s fault when Barkley once again makes a half-hearted tackle to win the ball?

Is it MartinezÂ’s fault that Barkley just walks round the pitch looking like he doesnÂ’t give a fuck?

What is MartinezÂ’s fault is heÂ’s not benching Barkley to give him a kick up the arse.

I donÂ’t have a pet or irrational dislike of Â’GeadsÂ’. ItÂ’s a very rational response to his appalling play. He plays consistently (I mean: invariably) badly for my team and loses them points. This is what I dislike, not him.

On a painfully comical note: I donÂ’t know if anyone else saw this, but I perceived an uncanny similarity (really!) between that twitter clip of the horse (was it?) falling over a ball clumsily and McGÂ’s fall (also over the ball/player) in the build-up to RomÂ’s equaliser at the week-end against Citeh.

St Aiden is painfully comical - but his performances are tragicomedy.

I am sure if they show the same level of intensity to win a game against West Brom as they did last night then tyhere is a good chance of all 3 points next Monday.

I donÂ’t know whether the new approach is being dictated by the players, or if RM is going along with the new approach. But I fear that when we are safe he will return to his style of football.

I really do think it is time to take Barkley out of the team at present, to keep playing him when he is so out of sorts doesnÂ’t help him and I think the fans are beginning to get annoyed with him and the last thing a young player needs is for the fans to turn on him. I am far from being convinced that Ross is going to be this great player I hear people saying even respected pundits.

He certainly doesn’t ever want to put his foot into a challenge and when he receives the ball on some occasions you can see him thinking "What should I do next?" were most great players know instinctively what to do. And I don’t think you can coach that into a player – he either has that ability or not. I do think his biggest asset is running at the opponents, something he hasn’t done enough of lately.

We sit 12th on the table despite this being all disaster leading to so much feet stamping. We have changed tactics and we have not lost yet (at least not without the opposition having to resort to their 10th penalty kick).

West Ham are a team that are doing well this season - facts show that they sit 7th , table doesnÂ’t lie. They have only lost 2 games in their last 9 premier league games (those to Chelsea and arsenal).

Our injury problems have been bad enough for there to be an overhaul of fitness staff. Other teams have had injury issues too but relatively speaking ours have been far worse. Care to name another team with 20 hamstring injuries this season? Or another with key players like McCarthy, Stones, Mirallas (and Osman) for such lengthy periods?

ItÂ’s good that you brought the earlier refereeing decisions that went in our favour leading to wins. Because that would mean that you need to include all those games in your analysis and not the last 12 game 1 win stat where the breaks didnÂ’t go our way.

Furthermore you say there was plenty of praise from you last night. But maybe IÂ’m confusing you with someone else making massively subjective comments like Sam has completely out-thought Martinez etc. during them game, even before the game was over. If so I apologize.

Like is said in my post at 208. We need to win, but we need to show that our play and effort levels will win consistently. Otherwise, like that QPR lucky win (where the breaks went massively in our favour), we will just lose more games further down the line.

Do please show me where IÂ’ve requested ANY ONE, ANY WHERE not to post their opinion on this forum?

On the contrary, IÂ’ve had to defend my right to do just that against people who rather than engage in debate donÂ’t want to hear alternative opinions to their own fixed positions.

If youÂ’re so interested - at it appears you are as youÂ’ve been moved to comment - read the relative posts in context. The posts I believe you are referring to have been addressed to a single individual. That is, a personal exchange between A.N.Other and myself.

Do you not see the irony of your final sentence? IÂ’d hate to appear in front of a beak like you in your kangaroo court on completely fabricated charges...

The irony of that sentence is clearly lost on you my friend. Especially after posting this little beauty:

"With respect, both Jim Bennings and Jamie Crowley both need to step back from the keyboard for the rest of the evening.

There is some legitimacy in both your points of view, though you both have a poor grasp of the differences between fact, opinion, pure fabrication and speculation.

Your differing views are clearly polarized, but any coherent point you are trying to make is drowned in banshee-like screaming hysteria. This effectively diminishes or even totally invalidates whatever point you are trying to make."

Apologies if you are part of the editorial team.

"We sit 12th" is not the significant data. The number of points is. And the cold hard facts are we are 5 points above bottom club Leicester, 3 points above Hull and QPR in the other 2 relegation spots, 2 points above Burnley and Palace, 1 point above WBA and Sunderland, equal on points with Villa.

What do all these sides have in common? They are all touted (quite rightly...) as being in the mix for relegation. All of them have gained ground on us since mid-November. Like it or not, we are in amongst them. We have absolutely no wriggle already.

To rub it in a bit more, 9 games ago we were above both Spurs and the Â’poo. Now, Spurs are 12 points clear of us in 6th and the Â’poo 10 points above us in 8th. We have gathered just 5 points from 27 in that time.

THESE are the significant numbers ... not the fact we are sat in Â’glorious 12th position.Â’

You then repeat yourself ... yes, we have changed tactics, and no we have not won, but yes - despite your best efforts of denial, we have lost and our participation in the FA Cup is already over for the year.

I donÂ’t deny West Ham are doing well this season. As you say, "facts show that they sit 7th, the table doesnÂ’t lie."

May I repeat that ...? "the table doesnÂ’t lie." Yes ... exactly ... I hope I donÂ’t have to point out the obvious to you Nigel.

Your next point. Hmmm ... "Our injury problems have been bad enough for there to be an overhaul of fitness staff." A bit of tautology going on there methinks. Taking what is known, adding what is not definitively known and reaching a conclusion that cannot be proved one way or the other.

And you claim that our injuries "have been far worse" than other teams. Factually wrong. We have failed to top even that table all season!

Your claim that we have had 20 hamstring injuries this season is factually wrong. It was reported as 20 in the last 18 months since ... Roberto Martinez arrived. Opps!

Now, is it beyond the realms of possibility that it is his training methods that are to blame..?

Reference to long term injuries to our players is repeating something already previously addressed - other teams have them too.

I really donÂ’t understand what point, if any, you are trying to make about "earlier refereeing decisions." Again, I have already highlighted that such revisionism as YOU originally offered is nonsensical. It cuts both ways - for and against us.

We can agree on one thing Nigel - we need to win. And I for one donÂ’t care how it comes. We need a win. BADLY.

Oh! And when you are ready, you can apologize. I made no such comment you attribute to me, EVER! Not before, during or after the game.

Nor have I ever called for RobertoÂ’s head. On the contrary, I have repeated many times my desire for him to succeed. Because if HE is successful, so is Everton.

And THAT is why my core allegiance lies, not with transient managers or players.

IÂ’ve not calmed down in the least, but was never as hysterical as your Highness believes. But I did get a very good sleep last night, thank you.

I usually fall asleep on the couch as I like to read at night, and donÂ’t want to keep the Mrs. up. I actually closed the Ipad and crawled into bed and slept very well.

I digress...

Jay, the reason I used the word "FACT!" so much was poking fun at / mocking Jim BenningÂ’s use of the word in reference to the 1 in 12 comment he made. It was not used to tell the world, "hey everyone! here comes a certifiable fact buckle up!" Kinda thought you would have figured that out on your own.

ItÂ’s a footy forum full of opinion, not a college thesis replete with footnoted material. [Please note I do believe that to be a fact, but can not provide evidence as such]

Now I hope we agree to disagree and can move on.

Go have yourself a rockinÂ’ day you good fella you!

And...? Your point being..?

Did you see the first 2 words Â’with respectÂ’? Do you know the context of that post? It was getting very heated and vitriolic between 2 posters. Others also advised them to cool their heels.

My point in saying to you in my previous post "That is, a personal exchange between A.N.Other and myself" was not (as you maybe are trying to misinterpet or imply) an order to you or anyone else to Â’butt outÂ’, but to counter your earlier claim that I was somehow trying to stifle debate and deny others a platform for their opinion.

You have attempted - and failed - to marry two disparate premises and, as a result, arrived at a false conclusion.

1) GK is not as big a worry as first thought. Robles was imperious last night and growing in confidence. One could argue he might have done better in the penalties but that process is really a crap shoot and he will take the experience of it for next time

2) Club must do everything in itÂ’s power to keep hold of Kev. Talismanic when he came on and one of the few (if not only) real game-changer we have the squad. When heÂ’s up for it, he is nearly unstoppable.

3) Barkley needs a seat on the bench. Seems completely lost at the moment void of confidence. Potential is there but the execution is not. Played out of position too frequently; believing the over-hyped press - not sure the reason for the poor form but it is evident that he needs to take a seat

4) While McGeady exercised extremely poor judgement going in on Noble (I think) to pick up his second booking (the first was a joke - see observation #5 below) he was likely the most effective Blue in the first half. Does his feet move faster than his brain at times? Definitely. Is he as shite as most make him out to be? I donÂ’t believe so. HeÂ’s not a regular starter but he is a worthwhile squad member. Clearly he has taken over the whipping boy mantle from Osman.

5) The officiating in this league has really gone to pot. The clown running the show yesterday was a disgrace. Carroll ran amok without so much as a peep yet we were punished for the slightest of contact. How bad is it when many would love to see Howard back in yellow and black!?

6) the match play drama that unfolded yesterday was rivaled only by the blood-letting that went on in the Forum! The passion is back!!!

I think he contributed tremendously thereafter, as far as I recall. His defensive presence, timing, and skill in the tackle were breathtaking at times.

I was freaking, however, at the prospect of him replicating his cute Juve chip in the penalties. Thankfully he took a more direct approach this time.

Now I can sort of understand a South American with buck teeth doing that sort of thing because theyÂ’re cheating bastards but coming from a so-called Hammers legend, honest-to-goodness-guvnor type... well it left a bitter taste.

But anyway, he actually did us a favour because we were better with 10 men. But still itÂ’s a defeat. Regardless of the manner but still a defeat and the WBA game is massive going to be some night at the Old Lady.

I also recall Martinez going mental (well as mental as I've ever seen him) at Stones, and clapping his hands telling him to concentrate a bit more just after that.

My main point was regarding the shape and set up of the team, which seems to hinder nearly all our big players. Barkley included.

We have very little threat and its been that way for ages. I’m tired of the shapeless mish mash of nothingness he keeps selecting. We have no cohesion or fluidity.

Lukaku & Barkley have both been dying on their arses at various points this season, due to a set up that does nothing to bring the best out of some of our biggest talents, full backs included.

As for Barkley’s current form, I think his confidence has virtually gone and he needs a break. I don’t think Martinez has handled him too well, changing position frequently from game to game and being benched in between so its difficult to get a rhythm formwise.

I am concerned by his apparent inability to get to grips with playing left half. He’s a ball playing attacking mid he should be able to do it, or at least look like he has an idea, & it asks big questions about his football brain.

However, as I say I don’t believe the set up helps anyone & as we are essentially utterly shite atm it can’t be easy. Barkley is suffering and needs taking out. He is young and ups and downs happen. I’ve seen Wilshere have some belters and utter shockers.

Oviedo needs some football and getting him in would actually help the balance of the side.

It was Martinez who played Barkley out on tbe left.

It was Martinez who isolated him out on the right.

It was Martinez who heaped Idiotic pressure on the kid by labeling him "another Micheal Ballack" or a "very special player"

It was Martinez who had him strapped up and injected him with pain killers and sent out to battle at Anfield.

it is Martinez who has perservered with him when he was clearly out of form and struggling for fitness.

It was Martinez who rewarded his last good performance by benching him.

It is Martinez who plays him as a number 10 then suffocates his game by putting two other number tens in
there with him.

It is Martinez who has taken a boy who's development has already been stunted by injury and confused the fuck out of him by asking him to perform in 5-6 different roles already this season.

When Moyes dropped this boy you people screamed that he was killing him, now your screaming for Martinez to do the same.

What chance does the kid have ? he may have been blessed with supreme talent, but he must feel cursed, He arrives on the scene When TGT is the manager, He arrives on the international Scene when gormless Woy has the Gig . . .and just when he's thinking it cant get any worse he gets saddled with a guy who hasnt got a fucking scooby what to do with him.

Whiles your Doddesque devotion to this manager is touching, You really do need to start thinking about the credibility of your arguments.

We have a kid who is universally recognised as a massive talent being criminally mismanaged by a guy who has never worked with anybody of that calibre . . . and you blame the kid ?

Apologism in its purest form

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxCC5vTse3Q

Can you explain why there was no contact? If Noble keeps his back foot on the ground then its possible he ends up in hospital with his leg in bits. Both of McGeady's boots are showing studs and he has zero control over them. Also have a look at how far away the ball is from McGeady, the ref was poor but that decision was correct, especially with how many fouls McGeady had "totted up" to that point.

If he flew into Noble with his elbows he might have gotten away with it.

There was no contact and no intent to injure. He was late, it was a foul, but never a yellow.

Did you also see how Noble rolled around and grabbed his completely untouched ankle feigning injury in an attempt to get McGeady booked and sent off?

So you disagree but concede it was a foul, which is a 100% backtrack from your first postings... "Noble easily could of leapt and landed".. Why did Noble HAVE to leap?? McGeady has NO control over his tackle = reckless = yellow card.

It's not irrelevant when determining whether or not an offense is a yellow whether there was contact or intent. In fact both should probably be considered by a ref before he brandishes a card.

How am I backtracking? Let me be clear – in no way, shape, or form was that ever in a million years a yellow card offense.