Caution Prevails in Lifeless Mersey Derby

That has to be the lamest home performance in a Derby for years. No desire to win the game is not good enough.

This season has been a car crash and, to stop it happening next season, the manager has to go.

Now we need to regain our attacking flair and combine the two. There are definitely reasons to believe we’ve finally turned the corner.

Yes, it was disappointing that Everton did not attack and create more chances, but you can understand the reasons for that in the background of the poor results over the past 2 months. People wanted a more pragmatic Roberto and they have got it!

If we can retain the core youth spine of the team – Robles, Stones, Oviedo, Coleman, Barkley, Besic, McCarthy, Lukaku – ably supported by the 'seniors', Jagielka, Baines, Barry, Osman, Pienaar, Kone and add to this core with some genuine quality especially in the creative third of the pitch, we could have a team that potentially challenges for silverware in the years to come.

We will get the balance, maybe not this season but it will come.

A defensive midfield two of Besic and McCarthy was up to the job as Gerrard was almost as bad as Barry. Naismith was pretty ineffective, so Lennon for him much earlier would have been okay. Finally, Mirallas was our one shining lights up front, and he got pulled.

Lukaku was offside numerous times, and shows zero awareness of where he is and whatÂ’s going on round him.

My last gripe is corners where we insist on packing our box, and will therefore never clear the ball unless they score or we get a goal kick. Aaron Lennon cannot mark anybody, heÂ’s rapid, so put him on the half-way line to occupy some defenders and give us an out ball and possibility of a break.

Add all the above up, and without taking anything away from yesterdayÂ’s defensive performance, we could have won that game against an ordinary RS team.

On the other hand, a few of us are finally seeing the green shoots appearing. Now with defensive stability back we can start concentrating on our offensive capabilities.

Pragmatism does not just involve shut-outs, it involves adapting game-on-game. For the LCFC match, we should go on the offensive from the "off" as they are quite a poor side going through a bad run of form. A win, and an ambitious performance – no less is acceptable .

Good summary I think, Lyndon. There can't be many fans on either side of Stanley Park who actively look forward to derby games any more? Gone are the days when the fixtures were the first thing you'd look for when the new season fixtures come out.

However, just how bad does Lukaku have to play for Kone to get a chance for more than a few minutes? He was terrible against Palace and offered nought yesterday. He's too easily bullied and I detected, particularly against Palace that his team mates sometimes hesitate to give him the ball as he loses it too often.

If we're to set up defensively then our centre-forward needs to be able to make something out of nothing. Unfortunately, unless it's on a plate, Lukaku is impotent.

Another good performance from our goalkeeper, back four and central midfield players in keeping a clean sheet.

The same again on Wednesday will do just fine!

As for pragmatism, this is not a side that can just turn on the attacking burners when it chooses against the likes of Leicester. Being pragmatic means having a realistic view of our options and our opponents, including during the game itself; that's why our failure to have any sort of go yesterday, was so disappointing when it became apparent that the RS were lifeless.

If we systematically carry no attacking threat, then the pressure on the defence is self-evidently intense. I hope that the optimism as to our impregnability at the back is justified.

When the team is in mid-table, hovering just above the relegation fighters we need every point we can get. Yesterday's performance fitted the bill nicely. If (a big if) we can do the same again on Wednesday, we can start to relax a little and perhaps play an additional creative player against Leicester.

As said above, we have the nucleus of a very good team. If only we had the money to build on it. We are competing against teams that are spending huge sums on players every season, it is a monumental task.

Unfortunately no money = no progress. It's the only reason our neighbours have had the upper hand in the derbies of recent years.

Hopefully once we reach safety we can go back to a more attractive and attacking approach like we saw last season.

When he and Sterling went to the World Cup, Barkley looked the better player, but Sterling's been nurtured, praised and given confidence, Barkley hasn't.

Glad to have a point, except for the last ten minutes, we were on the back foot. Stones, McCarthy and Besic were excellent. Robles looked safe (safer than Howard who is not my idea of a good keeper) and Naismith worked hard.

Am I alone in thinking Mirallas, after the penalty incident and his interview, should be left to waste away for the rest of the season?

He's betrayed his own principles too. He was all Maggie Thatcher a couple of weeks ago with his not for turning stance about our style of play. He insisted he would not abandon his Philosophy. That performance yesterday looked like something Tony Pulis had masterminded.

We deserve better than this,despite anything the easily pleased may say

Pleased to see that our defence saw off the threat of Sterling and Coutinho. Both subbed. Sturridge and Gerrard didn't do too much.

Was a bit concerned with leaving a Liverpool winger apparently unmarked and in space but Oviedo moved quickly over when needed. Assume the plan was to keep it compact in middle of defence making it difficult for their attack to play their little flicks thru middle etc. Also no crosses from the Liverpool wings.

We play in a way which does not suit one of the best strikers in the world. We desperately need creativity but only brought in one play in January: an out of sorts speedster with a poor end product.

Barkley's cameo was a positive although his misplaced control in the centre demonstrated why he can also be a liability and why playing him next to only one defensive midfielder would invite trouble.

We have Moyes's defensive legacy, and our recent clean sheets could have been achieved by most managers given our generally excellent defensive players. I agree that it is encouraging because it shows Martinez is realising the need for defensive returns... But why are the tactics still wrong?

It scares the hell out of me that we have a manager who likes short-passing football, but invests in direct and fast wingers... It is an utterly irreconcilable conflict.

We are too good to go down, and I expect we will get through at least one round in the Europa League. but we need to replace Martinez in the summer. If we stay with Martinez, I expect a return to the early and pre-days of unpredictability, and ultimately, underachievement.

However we are not geared towards counter attack because (without Osman and Pienaar) we lack players who can move the ball quickly in the middle of the park. We can't carry on with three defensive midfielders if we want to win games.

Barkley has been poor, but surely he has to play and hope he comes back into the kind of form we saw in glimpses towards the end against Liverpool. Barry should be rested to make way and we should play with McCarthy and Besic.

I would also put Mirallas behind Lukaku in place of Naismith, who though always wholehearted, is woefully out of form. This would allow us to play Lennon on the wing and from the start. That way we might actually score a few goals in the rest of the season!

So would you have preferred Martinez to have taken the same approach as in the Anfield match last year and taken a more attacking approach. That game ended so well.

Personally I would have preferred us to make a more direct approach and taken the game to Liverpool. I think the team did try although I would like to see so much more from Rom etc.

There was also a point in the game second half when Coleman moved into the Liverpool area and I was hoping he would have a shot but he switched the ball to Lennon on the wing who then turned and played the ball back and impetus was lost. That was disappointing.

But we got a point. Better than nothing.

There’s a school of thought that no matter what the manager does the final aim is to get rid of him. You all know who you are so just admit it (some of you do in all fairness) so stop all this hypocrisy and just come out with it e.g. I don’t care if we win all our remaining games I just want this man out!!! See? It’s easy.

There is a very clear difference between trying to win a game and encouraging suicidal tactics.

I get really annoyed when people try to say we attacked at Anfield last season. We didn't. Our snail paced defenders played a high back line against Rat Boy and Sturridge (neither of whom started yesterday, btw) and we just walked onto sucker punch after sucker punch without posing any threat to them all night.

"I don't care if we win all our remaining games, I just want the man out"

You've got it arse about face mate, we don't care who's in charge, we just want to win all our remaining games... why cant you see that ?

Its not about liking or disliking the manager, its about disliking the performances and the results.

In case you haven't noticed we have won but SIX of our TWENTY-FOUR games which although in line with Martinez's Premier League average elsewhere is way, way short of what is expected here.

But the defence is okay.... Big fucking deal!

Re last night. I agree that Evertonians deserve more and I wouldn't say I am easily pleased. But I accept that sometimes you need to do whatever is necessary. I assume we would have all been delighted if Coleman had buried his chance with minutes to go. We would have not deserved a 1-nil.

However I also realise Gerrard would have then embarked on a one man mission and would have equalised in injury time.

Coleman Jagielka Stones Baines

Besic McCarthy

Lennon Barkley Mirallas

Lukaku

This team going forward for the rest of the season will surely see us combine defensive strength and attacking flair. No more excuses please!

Is that Kone or Naismith or Mirallas you're talking about? Surely it's not that guy with the touch of an elephant?

We will finish mid-table this season, around 9th-11th. I want to see some progress in the Europa League, hopefully a semi-final at a minimum. No excuses from here, we have everyone back fit. If I don't see some improvement in our results/style by the end of the season, then I agree, we need a new manager.

Our defence seems to be fixed for now, so let's see if McCarthy and Besic can let the forward players express themselves. This season seems to be one of transition, not last season, as expected.

Going forward, we are still struggling but, I think, this has more to do with confidence rather than anything else. Once our midfield and attacking players feel more confident in their defenders, that part of our game will also improve.

After such a dreadful season the rebuilding (of confidence) process is clear to see. He’s obviously learnt his lesson and is now showing he is more than capable of adapting to different teams and styles.

I expect more of the same against Chelsea so a point there would be fine with me. Would you criticise him if this comes to pass?

Is he willfully doing this? Or does he not see it? Regardless, this is one of the biggest failings of Roberto – either he doesn't see it, or he does see it but can't fix it, or won't fix it. Which is it?

Giving away possession like that is not Roberto's philosophy – so what's going wrong? I was angry beyond words again yesterday at this.

Wrong side of 32 and yet starts every game and is never subbed despite the needle pointing to empty.

He's at least 5 seconds behind the play and some of his tackles are so late they are dangerous. As soon as he gets the ball he takes about 5-8 secs to do something with it. He slows us down and in most cases as he is quickly closed down so he always passes back.

In McCarthy and now Besic we have the Barry role well and truly covered. Time to rest him surely?

One last shout for Robles who is really looking like a replacement for Howard – he's looking neat, tidy and solid.

No doubt this is Barry’s last season as a regular starter as it’s obvious Besic and McCarthy are the future midfield duo.

Robles

Coleman Stones Jagielka Baines

Besic McCarthy

Lennon Mirallas Garbutt

Lukaku

Garbutt can double back as a defensive winger. Mirallas as an outlet for the counter. Sub Lukaku at half-time if he is struggling to control and pass Mirallas off if he’s shite (you never know if he’s gonna turn up).

It doesnÂ’t look like Baines will be fit so IÂ’d go with Garbutt at LB and Oviedo just in front of him. My team would be then:

Robles

Coleman

Stones

Jagielka

Garbutt

McGeady (yes, defensively the best of our wide men)

McCarthy

Besic

Barry

Oviedo

Kone

4-5-1.

Now, this season I've seen him introduce a style which clearly does not suit the players. I've seen him buy players not suited to the style he wants to play. I've seen us look unfit, and not prepared for a 90 minute match. I've seen him push Eto'o, Naismith and Barkley into unfamiliar positions, destroying Barkley's confidence in the process. I've seen Lukaku, one of the world's best young strikers, struggle in a style which does not suit him.

I've seen our defence undone time and time again, best of a style which did not suit us. I've seen our manager make a serious of dreadful errors, which have turned us into the biggest underachievers in the league. I've seen Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd all turn around poor runs of forms and problems...and I've seen ours get worse.

Now... your comment: 'There's a school of thought that no matter what the manager does the final aim is to get rid of him. You all know who you are so just admit it (some of you do in all fairness) so stop all this hypocrisy and just come out with it e.g. I don't care if we win all our remaining games I just want this man out!!!' – is pathetic. It is asinine. You take reasoned critiques of the manager, and style, and turn them into an unrelenting critique of the manager irrespective of results.

All of us would love to win us go on a winning run, and turn things around. All of us would like to see us produce what we can produce. But, do you expect me and others to be riding high because we've drawn against West Brom home, beat Palace away, and drawn at Liverpool at home? In matches which, whilst demonstrating a defensive improvement in result, have still illustrated the very same stylistic problems further up the pitch which have plagued our season?

Well done, Colin, if you want to naively accept the football on show. I expect you started the season with optimism too, ignoring the tangible problems which were all too evident in pre-season. The problems which are still evident now, and have seen us win 1 in the last 10 in all competitions.

In the last 8 seasons we've finished 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 5th, and 5th. This season, after the biggest net spend I can remember, we are languishing in 12th, 15th points off our mean median position. Do you expect us to be happy about that? Do you expect us to be salivating because we've drawn at home against a Liverpool team which we should get at least a point against?

I would love my Everton to improve, and Martinez to become the manager we all hoped he was. But I've seen numerous reasons this season to illustrate why he isn't. If there had been one factor off, I'd accept it. But I can't accept the multiple errors I've seen, which will cost us several million pounds in placing, and which will likely cost us a couple of players.

But irrespective of that, I will support us with everything I have at Chelski. Because I want the team to win, even if I think the manager will limit our potential for as long as he remains in charge. If he wants to change that, he needs to prove it to me, and every other disappointed Evertonian around. And a true Evertonian is disappointed at the moment, because we are clearly underachieving, and clearly failing.

A point isn't bad, but to have one shot at home in an entire 90 minutes is woeful. Oh an no wins against the shite in 9 meetings now, sorry that simply isn't good enough for a 'supposedly' big club in the same city.

He tells us that Kone is fully fit. If this is true, why is he not starting him instead of Naisy, who, to be fair struggles for control, loses his feet and the ball, causing our front players to be caught out of position. This allows the opposition to run at us at will. It was something that not long ago poor old Ossie was being lambasted for. The team balance would be better with Kone on the right (he was doing that job for Wigan under Bobby) leaving KM on the left and Rom in the middle where as a natural striker he should spend the whole game.

Frustration this season is born out of so many injuries. Most teams struggle for form, points and plaudits when they are ravaged by injury. Our problems are all loaded on Bobby though. I am not particularly a fan of his, but believe that with a bit of time he will turn us around and get us back in the hunt for top 4 next season. But then I always have been an eternal optimist with occasional doubts and reservations!!

And as bad as he plays at times he’s still our top scorer and knows where the net is...

But I agree with the left side if Baines isn’t fit.

The only difference with this season to those you listed, "In the last 8 seasons we’ve finished 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 5th, and 5th.", is that we have a Europa League run this season, which has been partly responsible for our poorer league form.

So many variables. If, at the end of the season we have been knocked out of Europe earlier than we would expect and finish outside of the top ten, then and only then would I feel we have gone backwards.

I will admit though that the football on show is inferior to what Moyes offered from time to time. Even he was inconsistent though.

Adam (#2), hit it dead on: Barkley for Barry. I too liked the combo of Lennon and Coleman. These two changes could give us the forward thrust we need.

I know itÂ’s not popular and I know IÂ’m in an ever shrinking minority but, I believe in this guy. I believe in his potential. I believe he IS the right man for the job despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Only time will tell but he wonÂ’t be sacked in the summer. He will be given time to reshape and rebuild the squad as the threat of relegation slowly but surely dissipates. Now everyone is entitled to question him on all levels but the simple fact is heÂ’s going nowhere in the near future.

So I opt to back him and hope he learns from this season (heÂ’s already showing signs IMO) and is able to resurrect his reputation amongst fellow Evertonians. All I want is the best for the club and on this point, I think IÂ’m in with the vast majority on here.

Lukaku didn't have a great game yesterday, but that was due to having to go slogging up and down the wing after long punts upfield – what was Kev's excuse? Apart from West Ham away in the cup, his performances have been a joke and his attitude frankly a disgrace.

Interesting to see RM's slow metamorphosise into David Moyes. Holding a deep line, three defensive midfielders, long diagonal balls sprayed wide for hapless forwards to slog their guts chasing down the channels. It was a straight out of OFM's playbook.

Frankly, I thought RM's tactical set up was gutless and embarrassing against a mediocre team. And I still quite like him!

We have Barkley, Stones and Lukaku who I believe will become great players. However, the problem remains the coach. We are now in the ridiculous situation. of having some Evertonians expecting others to admire the coach for this more pragmatic effort to grind out clean sheets. The accusation seemingly being that whatever he does some will criticize him.

Well, it's not like that at all. In my view, this poor season is down almost entirely to his ineptitude. He has earned the sack. Unravelling the crisis he caused should in no way allow him to remain coach.

I believe, for now, that we are stuck with him so I will cheer and be pleased for every point he grinds out. That does not mean that the turgid shit that he put on offer yesterday is acceptable.

Write this season off and he he is gone before the start of the next one. He has lowered the expectations and aspirations of Evertonians and he must not continue to try and make us thankful for small mercies. We deserve better than Roberto Martinez.

He bottled it yesterday. If Moyes would have settled for a draw in a derby imagine the reaction on here? Imagine if he would have made a change like Martinez did, putting Alcaraz on at 0-0 when he had a striker on the bench.

Many fans seem to be content with a point, as do the players, and Martinez was going on like he'd masterminded a Champions League win. It's mentality like that which will never see us win a derby any time soon.

Our own manager didn't think we could beat Liverpool so he settled for a draw. He did that at Anfield which was failing until Jagielka bailed him out.

I should think we'll be using the same approach at Stamford Bridge. Bradford attacked them, and won, yet we could be going there trying desperately not to lose.

How quickly Martinez has changed. We all admired his approach against the big teams last season. Now he's the complete opposite.

More drive, ambition, adventure, creativity. As I was watching I thought, this is a cracker - endeavour from both teams. Just knew the Northern affair wouldn't match It. Not solely because they're not as good, although that argument does have merit, mainly because you very rarely get two great derbies on the same day.

The next step is to see if he can get us playing like last season, getting back to some free-flowing, attacking football.

Is there anyone who has said these current performances are what we want to see next season, or even the near future?

Just because some are happy we are no longer a soft defensive touch, it doesn't mean we are satisfied with the season, or the last few games where we have defensively tightened up.

The likes of yourself and Phil W are constructing a straw man by saying anyone who supports the manager is satisfied by the past few clean sheets. That's plainly wrong and I'm sure you know it is.

It's posts like this which make any sensible discussion about the future pointless.

1. The form of Robles and Jagielka has improved and Stones's injury problems have gone away.

2. Martinez has abandoned the attacking full-backs and they now seldom offer attacking threat.

3. Yesterday he played three defensive midfielders and Naismith too was expected to drop behind the ball when we lost possession.

Now I will give RM credit for stopping the rot and us leaking goals but this has come as a result of us being an ultra defensive team and I believe he does not have the tactical ability to set up his team as solid at the back, while also offering enough going forward.

Add to this the fact that he cannot see that Barry needed to be dropped 10 games ago and that Lukaku needs to know he too will be dropped or take off when he doesn't give 100%.

Also he continues to play McGeady who he said wasn't fit for yesterday and he has not given Garbutt the games he deserves. The same goes for Oviedo who only played yesterday as Baines was injured.

These are just some the reason why so many of us still think RM is not the man for us.

I would be the first to admit that this season has seen us play easily the worst football since the late 90s. However, I can relate back to turbulent times under Moyes where I also thought relegation was a distinct possibility.

I am pleased to say that Moyes regained my trust by delivering consistent league finishes and even trips to Wembley.

Such is the nature of our financial situation, unfortunately that is pretty much the limit of powers.

I am willing to give Roberto my full support for at least a couple more years, but if we have not got back to the heights of Moyes reign then I'm afraid he'll have to go. Until then, let's get behind everyone at the club and kick on in the Europa League! COYB.

I was as unhappy as any (reasonable person) on here regarding yesterday's performance, but that doesn't mean I will deliberately overlook recent improvements to the defence to make a point.

Absolutely word perfect. My thoughts completely.

It proved that Martinez can organise a defence, begging the question why has it taken six months?

It proved that replacing him with a relegation saviour, then quickly replacing the saviour, would have been a waste of money. We have the option of replacement in the summer if need be.

It proved that for the last six months, Martinez can't get the whole team functioning at once.

Good to see some defensive momentum and another good display from the back four and Robles, who should keep his place.

Desperately disappointing to see another game with barely a shot on goal, especially against them. I'm all for solidity and the need to get back to basics, but surely not at the total expense of attack?

So in the short term, I'm glad Martinez has made us difficult to beat, albeit in the context of a shocking season. For the long term, who knows?

It's a shame that the manager's getting stick for doing what his critics wanted. An even greater shame that I have to point out that I'm not doing handstands and don't think we've turned any corners........yet.

I'd like to think there's a difference between appreciating a manager.

I wasn't happy with the point but it was better than a defeat, but first shot on target in 86th minute in a Derby? How we have fallen. That Liverpool team yesterday was there for the taking, that world class keeper they wanted to bench indefinitely had one save to make.

As for Lukaku, dear oh dear, what is going with this guy? He has been dreadful this season, to see such a monster of a centre forward playing the Jolly Green Giant and Mr Niceguy at a cost of 㿈m? I've seen more predatory skills, desire, anticipation and clinical finishing in my 2-year-old niece when she sees a bar of chocolate in her sights than this guy has. Did you notice Roberto shouting after him and he just turned his back on Roberto?

Think back to the dreadful teams we have had over the years after Kendall Mk 1; they were bad but their approach in the derby gave us hope, they were up for it despite being far inferior to this current crop of players we have. I thought it was despairing myself to the point of utter boredom. One shot on target a game will get you nowhere in this league.

If you've no idea what I'm talking about, go and rewatch Joe Royle's first game in charge back in 1994: no creative players, just a Dogs of War mentality and watch what they did to Liverpool that night (which was a better team than the current Liverpool team), we were bottom of the league that year with one win by mid November.

My only hope is that, once we're clear from relegation and the next tranche of Sky money comes in, then Roberto is told where to go (nicely) and we get rid of this ridiculous spoofer. Watch him in his press conferences, the man talks utter garbage. He should be a car salesman, not a football manager. The tripe he spouted after last night shows he so deluded he's lost the plot completely.

If he's in charge of us next season, God help us; I despair at the thought of it. Get shot of him asap and all of that backroom team he has with him. Waste of money and a dreadful waste of a talented squad.

I think the Europa League is an handicap to clubs like Everton with a limited, in quantity, playing squad.

Pathetic, clueless and patronizing is my view on him.

I have kittens each time we come under attack. Yesterday Liverpool cut through our defence on a number of occasions and on another day would have bagged a few goals.

The stats say one thing but the reality, to me, is another.

The defence is still poor, our attacking capability is very poor and we still run out of ideas as soon as we get in the last third of the pitch.

If we continue to set up like we did yesterday we will inevitably crumble. We won't be getting the creative midfield player we need now that the transfer window has closed so will have to make the best of what we have.

Play Barkley, and drop Barry would be a good start.

However, this season is a wash out and once again another false dawn has quickly dissipated.

BTW I spent last weekend watching the videos posted above on the 84-85 and 86-87 teams. Absolute class in every way. In particular, the fact that we had many leaders in those teams.

We don't seem to have one at the moment!

No matter who we have as a manager, the problem at Everton is we do not have the finances or do not use what we have correctly to purchase more than 2-3 players a season.

The reason that Martinez may not be at Everton next season is, that because of the success from the previous season, it may have clouded his thinking over the whole squad and the board may have thought that he did not spend the monie's given him wisely and will be reluctant to give him any large amounts in the summer.

We are allready thinking that Miralles will be leaving and the club "may' sell some of our young players and that will require a lot of rebuilding .So Martinez has till the end of the season to turn the club around to an attractive team to let B.K. and the board see, if he is the manager for the future.

We will see in the summer if chairman Bill sacks him or, like he did with OFM, shows confidence in him and backs him to rejuvenate the team. I hope itÂ’s the latter but only time will tell.

Barkley's cameo was a positive although his misplaced control in the centre demonstrated why he can also be a liability and why playing him next to only one dm would invite trouble. We have Moyes's defensive legacy, and our recent clean sheets could have been achieved by most managers given our generally excellent defensive players.

I agree that it is encouraging because it shows Martinez is realising the need for defensive returns.. But why are the tactics still wrong? It is scares the hell out of me that we have a manager who likes short passing football, but invests in direct and fast wingers... It is an utterly irreconcilable conflict.

We are too good to go down, and I expect we will get through at least one knockout round in the Europa League. but we need to replace Martinez in the summer. If we stay with Martinez, I expect a return to the early and pre-days of unpredictability, and ultimately, underachievement.

Something tells me we'll see him again at Goodison in the Spring via the Europa League...

DROP NOW!

I am obviously glad we are not leaking goals but I see this less as a tightening of defence and more of a watering down of attacking options. We have pace and energy but little guile. Arteta at his best would do. We have the option of bringing in someone to drag us to forty points or hope Roberto will do it. I fear that getting us safe will earn him more time. I don't think he deserves another season. Do you?

Mirallas was poor, disinterested and looks like he wants the move to a Champions League club where he can warm their bench while he looks at his payslip. Lennon should have replaced him much earlier, just as Barkley should have replaced a knackered Naismith much sooner, too.

But the thing that really naffed me off was, after telling us what a wonderful player Kone is, Martinez had him trotting up and down the touchline and then left him on the bench. Lukaku was tiring after an hour and should have been hooked off then, to allow Kone, who is a better target man, to hold the ball up from the long hoofs upfield. Instead, Martinez bricked it at the sight of Lambert coming on and took off Besic (not the useless Barry) and brought on Alcaraz who gave the ball away almost every time he had it. What a clown.

Jim Knightley#59

I agree with almost all of that post and it just echo's my own comments from recent weeks but I take issue with:-

"I've seen Lukaku, one of the world's best young strikers, struggle in a style which does not suit him."

I'm sorry, Jim, but I haven't changed my opinion on Lukaku since pre season. We paid way too much for him (not his fault, I know) and even if we WERE to play to his strengths his fee was too much for a forward who lacks the basics, such as trapping a ball, heading the ball.... With the correct service he looks pretty damn good but one of the world's best? Not in my book.

I would also take into consideration the options of a replacement. I would also ask what are the goals for any new manager. Top 8? We may still make that this season, so surely you wouldn't want a manager sacked for finishing in that position?

If we continue scraping around the bottom half, with no discernible improvement on the horizon, then I would say make a change this summer - not now.

We can all point fingers, but mine is pointed firmly at Roberto, as he is paid to get the best out of what is available, he clearly hasnÂ’t done that so far this season. I am beginning to feel that last season was just a figment of my imagination.

Everyone can blame second season syndrome, but can we afford a 3rd if we get this fraudball next year.

As the saying goes, neither one thing or tÂ’other or more fittingly. Too tall for Bob, too short for Roberto.

This season has been poor because Martinez has got the basics wrong; poor fitness management, unbalanced team selection, buying one striker and not playing to his strengths, poor morale? etc.

For me, we should be finishing top six, regardless of manager. If I was Kenwright, I'd be looking at replacements and seeking an explanation from Martinez about the differences between this and last season. If he didn't convince me about that or his future plans, I'd fire him in the summer.

He's just too soft, like a teacher that's lost the classroom and its anarchy with everyone taking no notice and doing what they want.

Some of them need straightening out, but imagine Bobby giving you a bollocking....laughable. His tactic is to over praise, Lukaku worth 𧴜 million etc, it just removes any credibility he may have had and makes him look weak and clueless.

Spurs have got a bigger and, in my opinion, a better squad than Everton, but even so the longer Spurs and Liverpool for that matter are in the Europa League, the harder it will be for them to make the top four in the Premier League. I don't care about the other two teams but I do care and worry about Everton.

We will find out in time anyway.

Can we just get to the end of the season before we do a full blown autopsy? The season hasn't ended and there's still a lot to play for.

I wonder what today's OHS people would have to say about that.

From my point of view, I'm hoping we've just gone through the biggest change/challenge of the Martinez era. I'm confident he is the right manager to take our club forward. Yes we are under performing and we need to improve, however I think we will see that unfold during the remainder of this season.

I think we'll do okay in the Europa too.

If you watch the good teams around Europe, the receiving player already knows were the ball is going before it reaches him and moves it along accordingly. We take touches and end up going backwards. The passing game is effective only when the players know how to pass.

What ever shit we practise at Finch Farm all week just isn't working and our decent players are regressing. Ross Barkley is being ruined with each passing week and the speedy counter attacks from last season are just a memory. If we want to implement a philosophy of total football, we need the personnel to carry it out.

Naismith and Barry must go now.

The big money spent on Lukaku is looking like really bad value and we have a possible passenger in Mirallas who seems to be playing to get out. Now we’ve had to go back to defensive basics to avoid the very real risk of being relegated, an existential threat for EFC. The key thing is what happens now, where do we go from here?

For me we have to base the defensive midfield around Besic and McCarthy and to play Ross Barkley as a genuine № 10. He isn’t a defensive or wide MF but is great when he’s given the more forward role. we also need genuinely good wide players in MF perhaps Lennon on the right and Oviedo on the left. I believe that less well financed sides like use can only survive by playing a tight counter attacking 4-5-1 and we look dreadful when we try alternatives that we don’t have the skill to play.

I’d also cash in on LB, I know that this is a terrible thing to say but he has real value now and in Oviedo and Garbutt we have great cover. One of them is a waste now. I’d give frees to Barry and Distin and see what we can get for Howard, they are the past not our future. Maybe not as they were given generous contracts.

RM has shown that he does have some flexibility and I’ll reserve judgement perhaps until the end of next season. For me, it would be a disaster if we were to discard him now. I think that Moyesie is beginning to look not too bad with the benefit of hindsight?

He's underestimated everything this season, especially since there were signs that he might have woken up a sleeping giant called Everton. He's based our whole season on Europe, and totally forgot about the league, which has led to a massive lack of confidence on and off the pitch.

If he can learn from this, he might become a very good manager. But 32,000, season tickets sold this year, will drop to about 20,000 in the summer, and for him to keep his job, will require The Chairman to not only remain strong, but also to have a lot of faith in him.

Europe will probably be key to him getting more time, but to play like we did on Saturday, was so hard to take for me. I genuinely wanted to leave after a hour, and it was only for my seven-year-old godson, and the fact I was giving my dad a lift home, I stayed.

We actually got better when Lennon came on, but after containing them for an hour, I just felt if we had gone for it properly, then we would have not only won, the fans would have been given back some pride.

Roberto I would love you to learn from your mistakes and succeed, but you have got to be strong and pick your best eleven. Confidence generally comes about when you have a go, so I'm not convinced that Saturday has done us any good on that score. You tell us Barkley is great, but don't trust him to play against Liverpool for even half an hour?

I could have accepted this if we would have had a few other match winners on the pitch, but to understand the passion of a Merseyside derby you left out "A SCOUSER", who you profess, you want to play without fear?????

Two priorities: stop losing; stop letting in daft goals. We seem to be pretty much achieving this. The manager, has hopefully learned some brutally hard lessons, in this most unforgiving of leagues. There is mounting evidence that he has.

Once stabilised, we can be a bit more adventurous.

We now need to draw against the 'big boys' and start hammering the lesser lights.

We will not qualify for Europe this season. I think we will finish 8th or 9th. It is too late to go any higher.

We must hope that the lessons learned, and some shrewd buys, will bear fruit next season. If they don't .... well....!

I agree Tony about the slow passing. Wenger's rule (I heard) is that if a player takes a touch then the pass has to be forward.

Fourth is out of reach now and we will finish mid-table so let's hope the EL brings success. As for the future, it seems bright to me, with a great cadre of young talent – Stones, Barkley, Oviedo, Lukaku, McCarthy, Besic, even Robles (if he goes on developing), etc on long contracts. So we have to stick with Roberto. Who would replace him anyway? It's not like we are a rich club who can pick and choose top managers.