Blues come back after early shock

Our squad is looking pretty threadbare at present and needs a drastic re-structuring. I cannot see any outlet down the left side at all.

Fuck it, come on Blues. CanÂ’t wait for this match.

Apart from the obvious mistake picking Howard, Barry is picked ahead of Gibson, why?

Naismith and Barkley in the same team never works.

Only hope is if Kyiv are half as bad as Young Boys were.

Barry ffs! Gibson is our most creative midfielder and can at least pass the ball forward.

Another mishmash of a midfield and whereÂ’s Atsu? We need some pace.

And IÂ’ve been saying all season that I donÂ’t see the need for 2 defensive midfielders at home, McCarthy does nothing for me, itÂ’s easy stopping others from playing but thatÂ’s not enough for me.

And by the way... Naismith is SHITE.

At least the bench looks decent.

I could never hope for an Everton defeat...but I want this man out so badly. And we all thought Moyes was ridged...

Yes, I would prefer Distin. Strange that he was not selected after playing for the U-21s the other week. Is he really past it now or just on Martinez's shit-list? But has Alcaraz been all that bad?

You're always saying the squad is threadbare but we actually have quite a lot of players for Martinez to chose from; the problem for me is those players are not playing anywhere near the level that they can.

I can't understand fretting about 'restructuring' in the middle of the season — it's the manager's job to make the best use of the players he has now, and for them to perform when selected.

And what's wrong with Luke Garbutt as our outlet down the left? With Kevin "Champions League" Mirallas in front of him, what more could you ask for? Other than a gut-busting 90 mins of effort for the team!

Martinez is quite simply useless, stuborn and I can't wait to see the back of him.

I couldn't make it to Goodison tonight, I'm tempted to switch the bastard TV off now. Soul-destroying watching this groundhog day shit.

The fans KNOW we can't hold a lead pr come back from going down. And this passing back to the goalie from the edge of their box bullshit DOES NOT WORK.

Barry is a waste of space and Alcaraz is absolutely terrible. We are so slow, it is frightening. Unless we speed up our play, we can only hope we score from a set-piece

This could get really nasty.

Sideways, backwards Sunday league giveaways. Has Martinez no shame?

Alcaraz is a big concern.

The screaming at Barry to stop going backwards was priceless.

The first 45 minutes is just further proof that we have some very good players, but they are forced into a system that they or the fans do not believe in, by a manager who I dislike more and more by the day.

Very cute goal by DK. The goalscorer starts on the far post with his marker, behind another DK player. Goalscoreer makes run to near post where the ball is delivered, other DK blocks off the Everton defender, goalscorer arrives at near post, drawing Barkley out from covering the near post ... where the ball is neatly turned into the vacated space. Howard not to blame for me.

As for Alcaraz... it was his bizarre header across the face of his own goal that set up the corner from which they scored and then he tried to lay another on a plate for them. And Sylvan not even on the bench...

Romelu looks well up for it... brilliant bullying and set up for the equaliser. If only he can keep onside! Ross again struggling to control the simplest of ball played into him.

DK are a very, very tidy team...

I get the feeling that Martinez gets furious if we play the ball forward quickly.

Fed up with Martinez... Time is up. Hopefully the crowd can rescue this game as the manager obviously can't.

How did it take this long to figure it out?

Q. Who makes tactical decisions? The manager or the assistant? A. I'm not sure.

Q. Can Martinez change tactics to suit a game? A. He likes to stick to his "philosophy " as much as possible.

What a load of bollocks. And Peter Reid rolled his eyes and looked on bemused. Just like all the rest of us are this season.

Those few comments are unbelievable. And they say it's all about this season. Martinez has not got a clue. And even a win tonight will not change that fact. It will only prolong the agony. And it looks like most of his players don't have a clue about what is happening either.

Un-bloody-fucking-believable. And seven good players sitting on the bench, wondering what they have to do to get a game. I dread Sunday.

If we play like we did in first half we've no chance! But perhaps Martinez has learnt something tonight (here's hoping).

It wasn't working for 35 minutes and a brilliant Goodison crowd told the players as much and frightened the shit out of any Everton player who even thought of passing backwards.

We got the win we deserved and they looked a pretty ordinary side. Lukaku was quite brilliant. Jagielka, Garbutt, Naismith excellent too.

Thank-you to each and every one of the Everton fans who changed the outcome of this match tonight.

Don't get too excited though, I fully expect RM to spend the next few days teaching us how to play backwards/sideways again.

The changes left us with no shape, no width. He brought off Mirallas and put Ross wide right and then took him off. Why not put Atsu on the wing? Kone offered nothing.

I agree some of the Baines comments were a bit worrying as to the bigger picture.

Now beat Newcastle.

Three consecutive games in the EL we’ve lost the 1st goal and recovered to win. It’s 13 months since we’ve done that in the PL

Again, good to see Ossie on the pitch. His absence has been a big loss this season.

And... I’m rather fond of our 㿈m ’lump’ up front and the ’shite’ Naismith...

Need to sign Garbutt long term. Now to make mince-meat of Newcastle...

Well done lads on a good performance but I can't fully enjoy the Europa until we have at least 2 more Premier League wins!

The crowd turned that match without a doubt and I don't think that slow crap will be tolerated anymore.

Pity we can't buy a clean sheet at the moment so ominous for the second leg.

I don't suppose Roberto will change his principles and practice some defending. including putting a man on the post for corners... Thought not; so no clean sheet it is then.

Onto Newcastle on Sunday and hopefully Martinez wont ruin that for us.

And here's hoping that Martinez noticed that the team played better when Barkley and Mirallas went off. That is obvious to everybody. My old Staffie pointed that out to me. FFS, even the wife has twigged on to that. So come on Martinez, open your eyes.

Here we go again. Same old questions. Can we win a game after a European night? Can we keep a little momentum going? Can Lukaku play two consecutive good games? Can Martinez play players in their proper positions? Can Martinez stop using so many Defensive midfielders? Can we beat Newcastle?

The answer my friends is blowing in the wind. Who knows what will happen. Because I sure as hell don't. FOREVER EVERTON.

As for Alcaraz, I thought he may as well don a Kiev shirt as he was causing us as many problems as any of their players. Good comeback and a lead is a lead but it could and probably should have been better.

Let’s see if tonight showed that the crowd will support the team if they are at it 100%; we can’t afford another slow start in any of our remaining games.

His claims regarding how his family problems affected him in the first part of the season certainly seem to be true. If he can bring a bit more of that zest to the league then we should be alright.

I thought Barkley was anonymous (he is supposed to link up the play). Naismith (apart from the goal) kept passing to the opposition.

The best we have played was against Young Boys away, good football with a purpose, but tonight’s match was disjointed and worrying with the Newcastle match coming up on Sunday.

The rest of them put in a shift – well done, boys. Now for the Geordies.

Almost everyone played well second half, including Alcaraz who had a shocker in the first. The exception was Mirallas and Kone looked ponderous when he came on.

Ossie made a difference. I want to see either him or Gibson on the pitch to give us that bit of creativity and guile.

Jags was a proper "Captain Courageous" tonight, he'll never make a left winger, but I loved that he kept on going and going in that move. That's not in any coaching manual or philosophy, it's one of those things that a player does which makes you think, "FFS, Jags! Go'ead, mate .....GO ON!", and the effect that it has upon the crowd is immeasurable.

Luke Garbutt made a serious contribution with some great dead balls, interceptions and wicked corners. Shame he wasted 2 consecutive corners... no excuse for the second.

James McCarthy just grew better and better. Even Gareth Barry put in a proper worthwhile shift; overdue, but still much valued.

Romelu Lukaku was very very dangerous! That run... FFS, he was like the opening scenes of the original "Indiana Jones". So much threat. FOUR men, and he brushed past 'em without a second glance. LOVED it!

Man of the match by a fuckin mile, Romelu Lukaku.

As for Mirallas? He needs a kick up the you-know-what. He needs to be told to cut the crap. He needs to be played in his proper position. Which I believe is right midfield. And he needs to show respect to this great club. There is a player there. But he needs to start performing.

I never liked seeing Barkley, Mirallas, and Naismith playing in the same team. The three of them keep running into the same channels. They muddle each other up. Tonight I thought the team had more balance when Osman and Kone came on.

Let's now beat Newcastle. Please let's beat Newcastle. It's over to you Mr Martinez.

What I learned tonight with the crowd was that those supporters who wear blue-tinted glasses and start arguing with the supporters who are jeering the constant back-passing are actually stopping Everton from progressing as, without the crowd tonight, we would have stayed playing the way we started and no way would we have won this game.

I hope the crowd stay this way on Sunday.

I also think that Kone should play alongside Rom more: he just gives us that presence in the box when Rom plays off the shoulder down the channels.

We've got a platform to take to take over to Kiev and there's no reason why we shouldn't go through, but let's get something from Sunday first.

He was a different player in the second half and as a whole came out the second half all guns blazing from the get-go. It felt to me at home that the crowd finally came on board when they players were having a go but I'm in Ireland. Anyone at the match fill us armchairs in?

Another question: Which game is important – Newcastle Utd or Dynamo Kiev? I will vote Dynamo Kiev cause I don't think we are really in the relegation battles in this moment and you will not be afraid when you look at how much worse the bottom 4 are.

I hope RM can rest 3 to 4 players and use the likes of Besic, Osman, Gibson & Lennon to play on Sunday.

Roberto, ignore the fans at your peril. The fans were 100% responsible for the transformation in play tonight. All those screaming for the ball to go forward, give yourselves a massive pat on the back. I watched it on the telly the crowd were awesome!

Unfortunately, I fear 2-1 is not enough.

Then the toothless Mirallas was taken off and the old Coleman came to life. A mention for Jags and Barry.

Absolutely right but why does it take 20 odd thousand people screaming at them to play the ball forward for them to do it?

The first half an hour nearly had me packing it in watching them.

Who was that big black lad we had up front? Nearly everything stuck to him. Brilliant game and my Man of the Match.

Martinez said this about the first half – "...a lot of anxiety, not enough tempo, no possession and we didn't have a forward intent." According to some on here, the slow, awful dross the players served up first half was the Martinez way.

I think someone on here mentioned that the players don't fancy Martinez anymore. Would tend to agree with that considering the two contrasting levels of effort each half.

Lots of you may feel LB wasn't at fault for the first one but imo any GK who gets beat at the near post when he has time to cover it is garbage. What was it? 2 shots on net for DK 1 goal scored. At least he kept his average GK who's the assist leader for our opponents. He did it again tonight: first get the ball out into the middle of the box.

Energy and tempo being used to describe Everton. Who'd have believed it?

Martinez, I was ashamed of the formation tonight, it's making good players nervous, and it makes our team look poor.

Everton's crowd was fantastic tonight, and if the manager doesn't realise that it's skill and tempo we crave, then he shouldn't be involved with us at all. Thought the crowd was just waiting for lift off, and I'm not sure if it was Alcaraz's careless back pass or Lukaku's run which gave us it.

We showed character to come from behind, but Kiev must have thought they were playing another Ukranian side tonight, for the first 30 minutes. Play with pace and play with passion, it's the thing which foreign sides hate to play against and it also helps to get the crowd involved as well. Don't know if it's going to be enough, but that last hour at least reminded me of why I've always loved going to Goodison.

I feel the same about Howard. I just think we'll concede every game while he's in the team. I'll be very surprised if he's still at the club after the summer.

Once we started playing at the higher tempo we looked like a decent side again. Hopefully we can continue with that approach against the Cartoon Army on Sunday. We need Stones to be fit though as Alcaraz was giving me a heart-attack every time he was near the ball.

Mostly Martinez signings who look completely at home in a relegation threatened side.

Tonight was at least a positive result if probably a goal short of going through. Lukaku obviously gets himself up for European games which is more than can be said for Mirallas. We are going to be lucky to recoup what we paid for him on current form!

Think of the Neville/Ronaldo game against United in October 2008 and (Lukaku penalty aside) you're on the right lines.

The atmosphere was as bad as anything I can remember under Moyes at his worst, but the equaliser changed everything.

I don't agree with you about Barry. Barry was superb tonight as was my favourite player, Jags. As with Distin and Baines, they are not comfortable with this possession football from the back. Again, as you seen last season and tonight, these players thrive getting the ball up front sooner rather than later, with the tippy-toe passing that is completely not their game.

Martinez, your philosophy should start with youth or spend multi-millions on players but, until then, let these player do what they do best.

IÂ’ve had enough of Martinez, he bored me to tears last season to be honest. He is going to ruin our club. The times when my mates sat in the pub before the game and discussed who should play and whoÂ’s shite have long gone. Now, all the talk is about his tedious tactics.

We have a decent squad of players. Hell most of the posters on here could pick an exciting and winning formation with the players at hand; playing to the strength of the players. Not Robert though. Oh and Kiev were there for the taking. Shite side.

75 minutes layer and my love has been rekindled. The players responded, the crowd roared. McCarthy, Jags and Rom played like they were at war.

This one just couldn't be a false dawn. It felt like we were backs to the wall and needing something – Everton and the Old Lady always respond to that and find something. That was a bit special.

We're backs to the wall in the league. If we come out swinging like we did for an hour tonight, then we'll have no problems.

Come On You Blues.

Martinez is stinking the place out with his formation. IÂ’ve read EugeneÂ’s posts saying that heÂ’s fed up with reading the same posts. Well, sorry mate but IÂ’ve inadvertently posted the same whine. I wish we all went back to calling Osman shite.

I have zero faith in manager / team to avoid defeat in Kiev.

Sack him tonight, replace with J Royle as Caretaker & everything changes. DonÂ’t & weÂ’ll find out soon.

Zero faith after conceding an away goal, ridiculous.

His reaction to the passage of play was odd, like he was fucking drugged, why did he just..watch it? (reminded me of a scene from the excellent Aussie comedy 'The Club')

Three seconds later, McCarthy's attempted 'clearance' brought an even louder bellow and when he suggested to the St End that they should 'calm down' fellers all around me were close to blowing gaskets.

When they scored from the resulting corner, I'm sure one or two literally bust blood vessels.

What tonight showed me is that Everton supporters are very much 'on edge' at the moment and consequently, I hope the team put in the required effort performance on Sunday; if not, the place could explode.

Up the Toffees!

He would be a great interim manager to stoke things up and I'm confident he would save us from the drop. It may happen if we lose the next two games.

Picking Howard is a sackable offense in itself at the moment. What is he thinking?...we can see how bad he is, so I'm sure all the players are thinking the same thing. That just adds to the loss of respect for the manager from the players.

I wonder if he actually wants out with his payoff and away from all the nasty scousers!

I know there appears to be an unwritten rule that Barkley is our gem, our protege and a hero in waiting and we should not criticise but we have to wake up to the dismal truth that the poor lad is currently out of depth. Being kind, he wanders around like a lost soul but being critical he also hides from the ball and the responsibilities of a midfield player. Take him out of the team for his own good. He is a complete passenger.

I think it's called playing for pride? Good to see what they can do when they feel like it, a job well done, monumental performance from Rom. Keep it up, La!

Howard's drugs are powerful, Eugene, because he was still acting like it was a pre season game with three minutes left, walking to take a goal kick??? The Park End and Main Stand were screaming at him to fuckin hurry up, but he's the man with the experience! Crazy.

WeÂ’re playing 11 men, not the name of Dynamo Kiev, a good side in the distant past. The RS never show any respect to European "name" teams at any time and itÂ’s worked for them.

The last thing we need is a cowardly away performance à la the David Moyes era where we went out without a whimper against inferior teams.

I agree with your assessment of Ross: he does look out of his depth. The only hope he has got is that a better manager can untap whatever potential he has.

Also, I thought Mirallas was a disgrace; he was anonymous and was lucky not to be sent off after striking an opponent in the first half.

I have given him stick at the ground this year but I have been persuaded by those who argue that we have to support him through this bad period (which I think has a large psychological element), even though he is so frustrating to watch. Let's get behind him and accept that it is going to take time.

I know it's already taken a long time and I understand why some are inclined to write him off, but he's one of our own, and one of the most naturally talented that we've had, and I think there could be big rewards for patience now.

The main worry for me is that Martinez was talking about playing him out wide to learn him different positions. Why doesn't he play him inside with a proper wide man outside of him? This way Ross can learn his trade in a more natural place, and the wideman might just stretch defences, to give Barkley a bit of space and direction to play.

He had one real run in the second half when his left foot shot was blocked, but when he's allowed to go both ways, he will become a much more dangerous player.

People are quick to castigate Jagielka for lack of leadership on the field, but the real lack of leadership is at the bench level.

I don't believe for one minute that this 'helps' the team in any way, quite the opposite in fact. Let's hope it doesn't become a self fulfilling prophecy.

An awful first 30 mins, but an excellent performance from there on in.

Stand out performers for me:

Lukaku – In beast mode.
Jagielka – Actually looked and performed like a captain.
Garbutt – Better than Baines has been all season.
Naisy & McCarthy – Never stopped fighting for the shirt as expected.

The 'supporters' – The less said the better.

ps: No, I don't think paying for your ticket gives you the right to boo the team, fucking grow a pair or don't bother going to the match.

COYB!

I hope the fans get behind the team in exactly the same way on Sunday, and that means if they start on Sunday like they did last night, let them know we are not having it.

Of course Eddie you can react as you see fit.

So why is it going wrong? I suggest:

1. He plays (presumably under instruction) about thirty yards too deep.

2. When he gets the ball he understudies the hermit crab and passes it sideways (again, presumably under instruction, but if he is that deep then it makes sense - you don't want to lose the ball that close to your own goal).

3. He isn't following his natural instincts any more; I think the way he has constantly been asked to shift position and role may have scrambled his brain.

As Paul Merson put it a few weeks back, any opposition manager or defender is delighted when they see Barkley playing deep instead or running at pace towards their penalty area.

For me it is another case of a player not playing according to their strengths, but instead working to some theoretical blueprint of what football ought to be. When he scored his free kick against West Ham last season, I wonder if they docked his wages.

What is the role of a manager in your opinion then? Just a guy who picks the team? After that, it's 100% up to the players?

What do you think about the supporters booing when we were 3-1 up to QPR at home?

What's your opinion on the idiot behind me who kept shouting for Lukaku to show the keeper his teeth ffs?

How about the fighting between ourselves in the Lower Gwladys?

I say support the team, whatever your opinion is of the manager or his selections. Then have your moan after the game is over.

Also, this assumption by some that Martinez coaches the players to pass the ball slowly is quite frankly ridiculous. I'm at a loss reading this forum at times!

The dithering, slow and repetitive passing without a plan or idea of the desired final outcome, followed after 5 minutes by a hopeful punt to nobody is so frustrating that you cannot help but think "what the fuck are they playing at"? Most of us will find ourselves vocalizing this frustration as is our right having paid our hard earned money to attend.

The players that tried to change the tempo (Lukaku and McCarthy for example) got the support they deserved, even in that horrible first 30 minutes.

When we're subjected to that dirge, "Supporting the team no matter what" is impossible for the average rational human being, even with the best intentions.

That said, some of the negativity on here is bewildering. As I've said before, and numerous others have said, this is Europa League and not the Premier League. We need to go into this with more confidence, as do the players. The first 30 minutes was timid and pathetic last night, and could cost us the tie. It was not timid and pathetic because of the style primarily, although that has been our most consistent issue this season, but because of an incredibly nervous team. Lukaku changed that last night, with some phenomenal strength and skill which demonstrates exactly why he has been compared to Drogba, and why he managed 32 Premier League goals in 2 seasons as a 19-21 year old. He also demonstrated why the fans need to support him a little more, because a 21 year needs confidence. If you are in doubt, rewatch the recent performances of a previously swashbuckling Real Madrid team, suffering from the complete lack of it at the moment. Confidence changes teams, and wins trophies.

Also, Barkley was horrific. He is devoid of any confidence, or anything, at the moment, and I think he needs a break from the starting eleven for a few weeks. Let him play at the tail end of games when legs are tiring, and when there is nothing to lose, so he can stop playing with the weight of something to lose on his shoulders.

Underestimating teams is a major mistake but so is overestimating and many on here are guilty of it. Everton are well capable of winning in Ukraine without a shadow of a doubt.

Ossie made a massive difference when he came on. Where are all of his haters?

Also, this widely held opinion that we only achieved a record points haul last season because of Moyes' legacy is pathetic.

Does everybody forget how negative and agricultural our football was under the miserable one?

He had his good points and made (some) good signings over the years but come on, don't be daft ffs!

When Martinez names his side each week with Lukaku the lone striker the midfield axis of the side (being what it is) industrious rather than creative, the outcome and pattern of play is inevitable . The players at his disposal this season cannot implement his style of play. This results in a congested midfield of like minded players where ball retention either sideways or backwards is the order of the day.

When Kone was introduced it forces a re-think by these players who are now a man down so to speak and then the game gets pushed into the final third. It brings Lukaku into the game now that heÂ’s got support and because the traffic is gone from midfield it means the full backs can get into space and press forward. In a nutshell unless Martinez changes the formation ( rather than the players ) his passing philosophy game will continue to go nowhere. His ideas are all very fine but theyÂ’ll only work with a David Silva type player playing behind Lukaku.

I think its as clear as day that the players have been pedestrian and lacklustre.

Peter Reid rolled his eyes when Baines made his comments abou the manager? I seen nothing of the kind. Baines was just limiting his answers.

This forum is just all about slating the manager - pure negativity, start looking at the players.

How can Rom look so good and then so bad? Attitiude - thats why. He chooses when he wants to be up for it. He needs a jockey on his back - lazy, but when he wants to do it hes great.

This season it has died for multiple reasons. It has died though, in the main, because of Martinez and a serious of high profile mistakes which in my opinion go beyond Moyes' fuck upS. The three year Barry deal. The buying of quick wingers/tacklers despite trying to implement a short passing game. The Eto'o business. The playing of Naismith and Barkley and Eto'o out of position, and the consequent demise of Barkley. The failure to play to Lukaku's strengths. The absurdly poor pre-season preparations, and a general lack of fitness which has effected us since. The decision to reinstate Howard in place of an in form Robles. The failure to adapt the playing style to necessity, and opponents etc etc.

It is worse, because Martinez remains so stubborn, and set in his ways. Something which was rightly applied to Moyes too, but a Moyes who showed he could change during his reign. Martinez needs to change, and change fast, but I do not expect it to happen, as it never happened at Wigan, and he is making the same mistakes again here.

As for "it's not his fault that they pass it around so slowly," – of course it's his fault... he presides over training, he should instill into them every minute of every day the tempo he wants them to play at.

Every game we play starts the same way, the our central defenders exchanging 3 or 4 passes before passing to our full backs or defensive midfield players, who are all still in our own half. No wonder the crowd become frustrated, all we want is to see the team have some attacking intent rather than this negative passing doctrine that RM has developed.

No coincidence that the mood of the crowd changed when we started to look to attack the opposition, but had to wait for them to score to change the mindset. At last they started to play to Lukaku's strengths, knocking the ball over the top for him to run onto, then we were winning possession high in their half.

I would suggest that in our next training sessions before the Newcastle game that RM makes sure the tempo of our passing is quick and let's see if they start the Newcastle game in a high tempo rather than the slow laborious way we start most of our games.

While in rant mood, I will just finish by saying if 2 years ago I was asked to choose between Henderson and McCarthy, I would have picked McCarthy all day. But while Henderson has improved, for me McCarthy has gone backwards, he very rarely if ever runs beyond the forwards I don't think he has scored this season in fact has he had a shot on target. So is that down to him or our manager?

Actually there isn't too much in your post I really disagree with. I'm sure you are right about some of the pundits, but do you not see the real talent which this lad has? I know the performances haven't always been great but I have proposed some reasons for that.

I admit to a soft spot for the views of Paul Merson: he doesn't pretend to be what he isn't; there is no side to him; he tells it as he sees it; some of his observations are quite shrewd (have you heard him on Lukaku?); and that wonderful goal against the RS when he slid it past the keeper when one-on-one.

As to the barracking, paying customers do have the right to complain of course. Where you and I perhaps differ, is that when someone's confidence is shot, I don't think a collective groan every time he gets the ball is going to help matters, especially in the case of a young player.

Yamalenko, if I got his name right, was playing as if he wanted to create some exciting football and entertain the paying public.

As for the ongoing Howard saga, he should have been pulled off after yet another hopeless piece of goalkeeping. Imagine Big Nev in that situation. They shalt not pass, and somehow, someway he would have made sure that goal did not happen.

In fact with the gait of the old legend as it is these days, I would plonk him in goal for the rest of the season. There isn't room for the ball to enter the net with Nev 2015 standing between the sticks.

Jim Knightley (131), just a correction of a myth around Martinez that you repeat here. Martinez doesn't play a 'short passing' game. I only wish we did. The likes of Barcelona and Arsenal (at their best) play a short passing game, with players passing in small groups and hunting in packs. We play, if I can invent a new term, an 'intermediate' passing game. For most of the time our players are positioned with 15-20 yards between them. That's the standard length of pass we play. The passes are themselves hit without pace, the receiver then takes two or three touches while he's making up his mind what to do with the ball next – with his eventual decision being to play another 15-20 yd pass (square or backwards of course).

If we had a fit Pienaar, Osman and Gibson, our midfield play would more closely resemble the short passing style Martinez wants to implement. That would be an absurd midfield of course, because it is not where out personnel strength lies, and that is Martinez's fault. His passing strategy was best represented at Swansea, but his later fixation on implementing it with players not suited, and whilst maintaining pace on the flanks, simply does not work without top quality central ball passing midfielders.

One of the points you rightly raise is that most players appear to be taking passes whilst stationary and by the time they decide where to pass next the game slows One of the reasons for this is a lack of movement and running into space, all of which encourages forward passing and passes ahead of players to run onto. This is something which players like Lukaku need if we are to get the best out of them.

I also believe that we have missed Osman and Pienaar who may lack the legs to run into space but they can both take the ball on the move and their turning and twisting changes the angle of attack and allows runners to move into space.

Let's hope the players get the crowd up for Newcastle with the effort they put in and not the other way round.

This for me is the problem in a nutshell.

My seat is in the (upper) corner of the St End and when we are attacking the Park End, you get a really clear picture of the (this) problem.

We see the ball rolled out to one of our back-four who looks to see what's on.

When he (whoever it is) looks up the park for forwards, for the most part, what he'll see is 2/3/4 (ludicrously hopeful) faces, STATIONARY, simply staring back down the field.

If I'm the man with the ball, I have two choices, bladder it up the field hopefully in their general direction (which will normally be met by a big puddin' of a centre half) or...keep hold of it.

Guaranteed if Jags punted 3 balls up the park in quick succession and each one was butted back to the halfway-line by a centre halves, all you would hear "You're just givin' away possession you soft tooWAT!"

There were two big differences last season, movement up front and confidence and the latter was usually a result (direct or indirect) of the former.

(to be fair to our fowards, when they do decide to point and go, the ball has to go IMMEDIATELY and too often a 'yips-like' hesitation fucks things up).

People were getting on Barry's and Coleman's backs when they were holding the ball, the fact was the forwards were all static, so there was nobody in a position to receive the ball; it changed a bit later on in the game.

We know because RM and his assistant have told us they don't spend much time on set pieces, and doesn't look like they spend much time on our passing in the oppositions half, so what do they do at Finch Farm all week.

And that's the only place where I can find any explanation for Eddie's flat denial of the crowd influence (which I had thought to this point was obvious for ALL to see).

If, on the one hand, you believe the crowd respond to and can influence the play, then you will have only one impression of what happened last night...

On the other hand, if you hate the idea of crowd reaction, and can't abide the thought that groaning, cajoling, jeering and yes, booing could actually end up having a hugely positive effect on changing the game... well, yes, I guess I could see that last night would have confounded you to the point of complete denial.

But, if it's based purely on objective observation of cause and effect, surely there can only be one conclusion? Or is Eddy right in his analysis, while the rest of us suffer in a deluded sea of 'confirmation bias'?

Last season....

'The School of science is on it's way back etc etc.'

Now........

'This fucking idiot is clueless, he only got a record points haul because of Moyes legacy'

Since we signed Joel............

'That Robles is absolute shite, what a dickhead Marinez is for bringing him here'

Fast forward to recently........

'Eh he's brilliant that Joel isn't he, should be playing instead of Howard ffs' (For the record, I wish he would put him in)

When we signed James McCarthy:

㾸 Million for a Wigan reject, he's a load of crap, more money wasted. We could have signed so and so for that kind of money etc'

Now...........

'What an incredible player McCarthy is, two thirds of the earth is covered by water, the rest by James'

Lukaku:

'㿈 Million for that big lazy waste of space, could've bought 3 really good players for that money cant hold the ball up etc, get rid'

Now:

'Lukaku - Scored 7 goals in Europe, the shite - 6'

Gareth Barry(Last season):

'What a great player he is, really make's the midfield tick. We really need to make sure he signs up'

Now............

'That fat fecker only signed to get his last big payday, stopped trying now, too old, too slow'

Besic (when brought on in the Chelsea game):

'WTF does Roberto think he's doing bringing that load of shite on, who then plays a stupid back pass trying to be a smart arse'

2 months later

'Wow, that Mo Besic is amazing, a proper Everton player, puts a real shift in'

This my friends, is why I will never take any notice of the majority of posters on here.

ToffeeWeb - Schizophrenic Since Inception!

When the players played a forward pass the supporters shouted in agreement. When they played it backward when there was absolutely no point in doing so, the entire stadium let the team know how pathetic it was. Last nights result was down to the supporters saying, finally, enough is enough. I hope for nothing different in any of the remaining matches.

"This my friends, is why I will never take any notice of the majority of posters on here."

I've always been a bit concerned by anyone who characterizes TW as this single Borg entity that supposedly speaks with one voice and therefore, given how the voice varies with almost every post, must be Schizophrenic!

Or perhaps, Eddie, the explanation is that each of those posts actually comes from separate individuals commenting on very different things at different times, as they change across seasons... or during a season... or as last night — during a single match.

'Eh he's brilliant that Joel isn't he, should be playing instead of Howard ffs'
then you would have a point. As each comment has no doubt been made by different people your ToffeeWeb - Schizophrenic observation is devalued. It's not Schizophrenic, just different people with different views.
(I wish he'd put Robles in too)

If I complain one morning because it's freezing and raining, and then the next day state how lovely the weather is when it's sunny, am I crazy? Or am I just stating the reality of the weather on those 2 separate days. Things change, opinions change, that's human nature. The problem is when people refuse to budge from their opinions no matter what opposite reality is staring them in the face.

Maybe if I'd studied psychology, I could understand what it is that drives this particularly annoying trait.

Oh, I forgot to mention Naisy, he was absolutely crucified by most on here for a long time.

What in your opinion caused the game to change so dramatically after 30 mins or so?

Football is in reality a group of 22 grown-men chasing a pigs bladder around a field watched by thousands of mostly grown-men shouting and cajoling their favourites to victory – not very much sense in that if it were to be analysed truthfully.

However, most of the fun of the game happens away from the game itself, the debating about which players have been good, bad or indifferent, which have been the best teams throughout history etc etc. TW may have many Schizophrenics giving their opinions but to me that’s what makes it entertaining and often illuminating and educational and can be cathartic at times. Long may it continue on its dual-carriageway to glory.

Michael, I would definitely take that SSI, as a compliment. It should actually be the definition of the human race, never mind ToffeeWeb!

I'm not saying he's right and someone else is wrong, but what he says definitely begs a couple of questions imo.

I accept Ray Roche's points about opinions coming from different people and David Barks, yes of course it doesn't make you crazy to describe the reality of changing weather.

But Eddie talks about the 'general consensus' and from that perspective, I think what he says has some validity.

The general consensus was RM was a genius and is now a twat .

Generally most players were great last year and yet many of them this year are 'useless, hopeless, idle twats' (or whatever).

"Yeah but we're just saying what we see, what's wrong with that?"

Nothing at all...but such drastic changes of opinion certainly place question over our judgement of players or manager - doesn't it?

I mean if our general opinion was 'he's boss, they're boss'' and in a year or so, that's become 'er...no I meant he's shite and they're shite', we're hardly entitled to say 'don't tell me about football lad, I know me stuff'

Certainly if we applied the same standards to ourselves we do to our manager/players, we'd be posting..

"I know fuck all me, one minute I'm telling you Martinez is brave and goes for it, a few months later I'm telling you he's a shit-house who is bottling it, I should go NOW!!!"

We can see what's happening on the field and of course respond to it, but much of what we read about players/manager goes waaaaay beyond describing a game.

Opinions like 'he's a shit-house, he's lost the plot, he's got no vision, he's a loser, he's lazy', etc are all fine with me, but if we were saying the opposite a year ago, Eddie has a point.

Generally speaking.

The thinking behind my post @151, wasn't to insult ToffeeWeb by the way. I was merely pointing out how peoples opinions change over time, and to me, some are very fickle with regards to this.

I will wait to see how the rest of the season pans out before I condemn or condone Roberto's performance.

I'm as disappointed as anybody with our league results. However, I personally think we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries, and certain players haven't been performing at the top of their game, unlike last season.

So, Mr Martinez. Please beat The Barcodes on Sunday and take us to Warsaw. Maybe then we can move on as one.

Gracias!

I must point out that I certainly don't think I'm a football expert, but I'm a glass half full type of chap and some of the negativity here / at Goodison is rather depressing.

Deluofeu, Barkley, Mirallas,Coleman and to a lesser degree Ossie were at the heart of all the good performances last season because the picked the ball up and took players out of the game by going past them.

We suffered dull and insipid performances last year too, particularly when we were not taking opposition defenders on.

Unless you have top class passers of the ball (and we don't) the only way to break down two banks of four is to take the ball up to them and go past them.

Martinez has got the tools he just doesnt have the knowhow

If we are doing well, the people who want Martinez as manager will come on and big him up . .if we are playing shite, those opposed to his appointment will knock him down.

Is that not the way with all supporters, of all clubs. on any forum/radio phone-in / alehouse. in the world . . .or is it just us who are schizophrenic ?

Btw, what the hell has happened to Ross? I know he tried yesterday but he's so off-pace, he looks like a stranger on the pitch.

'Keep running into spaces'!?

I have NO idea who (or what) you are watching.

Seriously, you know all those fellers at the match with purple faces (and what appears to be an ariel shot of Crewe Station on their foreheads) screaming "fucking moooooove!!!" - ever wonder what they're on about or who they're screaming at?

I would like to revise the schizophrenic tag.

It's more like Bi-Polar!

Early on in the season I saw that movement. I saw players buzzing around looking for an early through Ball . . .but it didnt come. Jagielka, Howard, Distin and co fucked about with it until either one of them panicked and hoofed it anyway, or they got caught in possession and found ourselves frantically back peddling

When people ask what wrong with Barkley/Mirallas/ Lukaku I often feel they are close to having their spirit broken.

Our tactics have been utterly brainless we try to play a passing game with players who cant/wont adapt. if you keep doing what you've always done, you will get what you've always got.

Just imagine if we had Aguero. His movement is as intelligent as I have seen, but do you really believe any of the players I mentioned would be good enough to get the max out of him ?

Its a matter of opinions Mate, but I think they would break his heart

You are peddling a myth, mate, and I suspect you know it. The crowd did not boo the players against QPR. They booed the tactics which saw (on more than one occasion) an Everton attack which ended up in the arms of our own goalkeeper.

QPR where absolutely there to batter that day and, like all supporters everywhere, we wanted to see Everton hand it to them.

Has there ever been a better opportunity to get that massive win we all find so satisfying?

I don't boo myself, but I felt the boos were richly deserved that day.

Static, sideways passing going nowhere; crowd reacts with increasing volume; players respond... and the tempo, the pace, the directness of the game – all are transformed.

"Last night's result was down to the supporters saying, finally, enough is enough. I hope for nothing different in any of the remaining matches." — David Barks.

It's as it should be. I hope to hear plenty more of it whenever the performance shows signs of flagging... Power to the People!

Mirallas won a free kick, which Lukaku forced a save from, then there were a series of corners with 2 shots on target. The crowd then got behind the team, 2 minutes later Lukaku drove forward and boom, we scored.

So the way I see it, those passages of play just before we scored got the fans supporting, not the half an hour of abuse beforehand.

If we play like we did in the second half against Newcastle, we'll easily beat them. Of course, we don't do anything easily, but I still expect us to put in a strong performance on Sunday. Again, I think the crowd will do their bit and be the 12th man if we start like we did against Kiev,

But I just get a feeling, had we not flung that game away... well, it just has an 'Oxford in reverse' feel.

My conclusions are in noarticular order:-

Garbutt needs to start making tackles and stopping crosses. He hardly made a tackle all game.

Mirallas received Lille in the way of decent balls all game.

Lukaku and Jags were immense. McCarthy and Naismith worked their socks off.

Barry was better than he's been for a good while.

Kone should play with Lukaku upfront.

Once we dumped the passing without purpose game we were miles better. We were attacking with 5 men in the final third!

I had the feeling that our direct play was a player decision and happened without any input form Martinez.

We need Stones back for Newcastle.

Barkley should lose his fear of giving the ball away and forget the suppression of his natural instincts. I'd rest him for a 2-3 games or give him cameo roles.

We miss the creative abilities of Pienaar and yes surprise suprise Osman!

Leighton Baines is not impressed with the Martinez doctrine.

The thing is you also see and hear things on the box that you don't see at the game . .like the reactions of former and current players to the way we are going about things. . . Leighton Baines - "as a defender, if you can get Rom facing his own goal, you've got him where you want him, but if he is running at you, you know you're in trouble". Peter Reid was saying the same thing.

Martinez paid 28 million quid for Lukaku, he was to be "the difference" . . but Matchgoer and armchair fan alike, we all KNOW Lukaku cant play with his back to goal. The trouble is our build ups are brain numbingly slow, he has been forced to spend most of this season looking into his own half.

I'm a fan of possession football, there's nothing wrong with going back and starting again when nothing is "on" . . but our players don't even look, they often go back and start again when something IS on. That's what the crowd is sick of. it all becomes pointless.

Young Garbutt offered the overlap for an hour before he accepted he wasn't getting it, he knew he would see more of the ball if he stayed home and played pass the parcel - That (for me, at least) goes a long way to explaining why the form of Coleman and Baines seems to have fallen off the same ciff.

I agree with you.The incidents you refer to did change the game . . but most people seem to believe they only occurred because the players had been told in no uncertain terms that continually turning back and playing pointless passes is no longer acceptable.

There's not much wrong with our team. If we remove the straight jackets from our full backs and start playing balls into area's where Lukaku can fight for it (as Chelsea used to do with Drogba) The confidence of all three would rise because they would be doing what they are good at.

If we can get our full backs and Center forward to force the opposition to take the handbrake off the parked bus, we may see holes developing for Mirallas/ Barkley/ McCarthy to drive into.

If he could just force himself to take the risk, Roberto could soon be dreaming again

Whether you are for or against MartinezÂ’s style of play, as the game went on, the crowd frustration grew. You could actually see the players have doubts about making sideways passes long before the time you mentioned.

Anyway, Eddie, you stick to your interpretation... but believe me, mate, youÂ’re 100% wrong.