40+ points despite Barkley's penalty miss

I would much sooner give Nais a run. At leat we would get 90 minutes out of him and his ability to finish is much better than Kone.

Still, it's only Burnley. LOL.

Why is Baines not taking the penalties? This question must be asked as we should be two up by now. Baines has a fantastic record from the spot and the fans deserve to see the best man for the job.

We are without leading scorer Lukaku in the starting line-up so surely we need proven scorers in the team. I despair of this manager. And all the chances weÂ’ve had today, and no one with the ability to hit the target. Pathetic really at this level, McCarthy guilty again.

As for the penalty, Barkley clearly felt he was confident enough to take it, judging by the end result he wasnÂ’t. Baines should be our designated taker, so either he was willing to let Ross take it or itÂ’s poor management.

Surely Martinez shouldÂ’ve sorted this after the Mirallas incident? Clearly he hasnÂ’t.

We need to sort ourselves out in the summer. WeÂ’re far from fixed yet.

Baines again way to nice. He should have listen to Coleman who told him to take it away from Barkley. Hopefully Jimmy Mac isnÂ’t lost as he has been developing his offensive side of the ball. Just missed a brace today which if he had been shooting all year he may have got.

Good and bad habits are very important for any sport and we are becoming a team with really bad habits. The penalty issue – has Baines decided he doesn’t want to take them any longer?

Slack passing, tame tackling and no desire to show how good we can be. Lennon, Jags, Barry and a couple more showed their ability but too many are going through the motions. Understandable I suppose with so little to play for, but those who pay to watch deserve to be entertained, but the players donÂ’t seem to have grasped that fact this season.

I wondered why he never makes runs into the box to shoot and now I know why.

But IÂ’d rather win all 5 remaining games being entertained being reminded of how great our football is when weÂ’re at our best. Remember last season at this point? Ripping Arsenal and Man Utd apart? This season, weÂ’re just about meandering to a win against the bottom side in the league.

Desperate defending from us for the last 15 mins and it would have been no surprise for Burnley to equalise. With 5 games to go and Lennon in attack, I expected him to take it to the corner flag.

Shocking the way Martinez is choking the life out of Everton.

IÂ’m like a broken record but I was again disappointed with McCarthy. Anonymous with the ball and missed a sitter. Add that to last week's sitter and I just wonder if heÂ’s ever going to be the more dynamic player we need. When he had no license to roam, that was his excuse for not being creative or being a goal threat, but now he is being given that license and he just doesnÂ’t look the part.

Comfortable win but poor performance and we have a lot of very poor players and really lack character.

Worst and most depressing season IÂ’ve ever known; unless something major changes, you canÂ’t see next season being much different.

Keep your sympathy, thank you. I could return the heartfelt sympathy for you if youÂ’re satisfied with that shite.

I and 39,000 others shelled out a lot of hard earned money to watch that and all the other turgid crap served up this season to effectively be told by you and some others that my best bet was to watch the result in teletext because thatÂ’s "all that matters". Frankly I find that quite disrespectful to fans who regularly make the effort. I expect more, much more than that.

Baines has proved himself to be probably the best penalty taker in Premier League history and that ability is being bloody wasted and we are consequently failing to add to our goal tally. We got lucky today but another day that miss could have cost us valuable points, and it does impact on our goal difference.

BAINES SCORES PENALTIES. Are you listening Martinez? Get it sorted, and quickly!

IÂ’d rather head into the summer on the back of 5 good wins with good football on show than off 5 scrappy meandering wins. Winning well brings confidence.

Their centre-back wasnÂ’t half bad, a big tall strong lad played well. Two players that Martinez could consider: the keeper and the centre half. We could offload some of the chaff to Burnley in part-ex.

1. Play like that consistently and you drop consistently because you start losing more than you win and you lose your better players and long term your luck runs out (short-term scrappy wins notwithstanding);

2. IÂ’m glad youÂ’re so happy with our results that have put a 5th-8th finishing team in the bottom half of the table and losing around 㾸M of revenue so far; give Martinez a medal and a new improved 5-year contract.

Those results overall wouldnÂ’t have anything to do with piss-poor play, would they?

We are crap, we donÂ’t deserve a top-half finish ahead of the likes of Stoke, in all honesty, and I can only see more of the same next season under this manager.

The frightening thing is Martinez actually believes we only need three players!!!

The squad is crap, no quality on the bench, Kone horrendous even as a stopgap, Naismith loads of effort but not top drawer, midfield bereft of attacking guile.

Barkley, donÂ’t even get me started on another underwhelming display and a "Kevin Mirallas moment" on the pen.

I donÂ’t see a great deal of logic in Point 1, and IÂ’m not sure how you can predict the future on such logic either? Confusing at best!

As for Point 2 – I’m not happy with results over the season, far from it, but I am happier with results right now and that’s the point I’m making. We’ve gone from being a team that loses every week to a team that wins every week.

You canÂ’t turn it around instantly and suddenly go from playing terribly each week, to being brilliant to watch each week, but you can build on positive results. I for one see us as having progressed from being losers to winners and thatÂ’s my original and overriding point.

IÂ’ll take the positives. A win. Good displays again from Jags, Stones, Barry. Good shift from Lennon. I like McCarthy being pushed further forward and Ross breaking forward from a deeper role..

But not a performance to get excited about. I guess the fact that thereÂ’s not much to play for at this stage in the season has taken the edge off things.

There were quite a few decent link-ups and the odd fast build-up but itÂ’s not good enough.

Martinez has a lot of work to do in the summer. Starting with getting the lads properly fit and ending with telling them that BAINES TAKES THE FUCKIN PENALTIES!!!!!

MotM – Barry or Lennon. Easily our two best players In this little run we’ve had.

After the Man Utd game, IÂ’d like us to experiment with some of the youngsters and formations. Roberto insists he's flexible; well, he has a great opportunity to show it now.

IÂ’m really hopeful we will see last seasons Barkley next season and not this seasons Barkley, if you know what I mean.

"If Romelu had been on the pitch, he would have taken it," said the boss. "He’s taken the last two and we don’t want to change that. To be a successful taker of penalties, you carry on doing that.

"But then we have Leighton Baines who is a specialist and Gareth Barry who has an incredible record in the way that he takes penalties.

"And then we have people who can control the big moments like Ross Barkley. It depends how you feel at that moment. Sometimes you are feeling good and want to take it and I think Ross showed incredible responsibility in wanting to take it and Leighton was happy for him to do so."

So is he saying that Baines is no longer the pen taker?

I donÂ’t set low expectations and I agree, we should be doing better. So in essence I agree with you.

Colin – time will tell, I just don’t think the kid is really as good as the hype.

Nice to hear Mirallas after the game saying he sees his future with us at Goodison. Whether thatÂ’s genuine is another question entirely!

One of the points he infers too is the support accepting the shite we have had to put up with over the years. He is so so right and a few of the posters on this thread are contributing to the malaise that permeates this football club.

The whole season, including our recent "wins" have been nothing short of a disgrace; how anyone can take any positives out of it is unfathomable. Some people are very easily pleased. God help us!

I am totally with Joe Clitherow on this issue. The fans should not have to endure this torrid shit from a club like EFC.

FFS, Man Utd got rid of Moyes for not getting CL with an ailing squad that needed rebuilding while we meekly say "It is second season syndrome" – whatever that is. We used to be as big a club as Man Utd; now, even our supporters are putting up with second rate.

I am totally underwhelmed by our tactics, team selection and poor preparation.

As for today... a win's a win. COYB!

When are our midfielders going to chip in with a few goals? The game is about scoring and we are once again being carried by our back four. Our fullbacks and Jagielka are outscoring the collective bunch we have. I include McCarthy, Barry, Barkley and everyone else apart from Naismith who has scored a few.

Baines must take our penalties or at least a reason must be given as to why he is not. We should have been two up at half-time and I am sure that if Baines took the kick he would have scored. He is the cleanest striker of the ball we have and for some reason his penalty goals have dried up this season. Lukaku has at least scored his but why on earth did Barkley take todayÂ’s?

We are on a fine run at the moment with 13 points from the last 15 and I want to see us beat Man Utd. If we get a penalty and Baines does not take it then God help the player who takes it if he misses. Please ask the question as to why Leighton is no longer taking our penalties.

He can celebrate how the hell he likes if he keeps scoring winning goals.

Absolute shite today with a very underserved 3 points. Mirallas should have been red carded for a nasty and only a finger from Taliban Tim immediately after we scored stopped a certain Burnley goal.

I can’t wait to hear what the bumbling Bob has to say after this.

Now we have some happy to win ugly. If we want to win 1-0 every week, clinging on nervously, Big Sam does a great job at that. I think to only win 1-0 against Burnley is disappointing to say the least, even though we got the 3 points.

It was just poor to watch again. For the majority of this terrible season the football has been turgid, dull and just shite to watch. If we were a newly promoted team, happy to be here, on a jolly, it would be acceptable. But itÂ’s not. WeÂ’re Everton. And we deserve better.

Yes, but the fact we arenÂ’t isnÂ’t Roberto MartinezÂ’s fault. ItÂ’s the board’s fault for not having the foresight of how big the Premier League would become when we were on top, and then doing stupid things like only redeveloping the Park End as one tier because Philip Carter/David Marsh said we wouldnÂ’t fill it. I could go on and on with the Board’s inadequacies but we all know them.

DonÂ’t forget, this Burnley team have just taken points of Man City and Spurs, teams and the bottom are fighting so hard to stay up. FFS give the boys some credit.

If it werenÂ’t for their keeper and some sloppy finishing, weÂ’d have easily won 4-0. Not sure if I was watching the same game as some others out here.

As you only watched the second half maybe you didnÂ’t notice that we were only playing against 10 1st Division standard players.

The fact that we didnÂ’t score a hatful of goals is down to the tactics in the main and that we don’t have many players who can score goals. For the last 10 or 15 minutes, we were nervously hanging on and it wouldnÂ’t have surprised many had Burnley equalised.

I am not sure about the stats but to my mind Jags has had more touches than any other Everton player this season and that is scary.

Gavin, I totally agree with you about the Board’s non-contribution to our development and status and choosing Martinez was down to them but this manager will only take us in one direction and it is not back to the elite.

Yes, we have gained 13 points from the last 15 points available but wouldnÂ’t we have expected that sort of haul as a given in seasons gone by, from the same fixtures?

Sometimes it can be much harder to score against 10 men than 11 as they take less risks, get compact and fight twice as hard. Not sure if thatÂ’s the case? Either way, itÂ’s a win and 13 points from 15 which is title-winning form!

Man Utd will obviously be a sterner test and perhaps a better indication of what this current team is capable of.

As said earlier, I didnÂ’t watch, but am beginning to feel hope again. Dangerous.

Are they the same fans who some weeks ago Michael were praying for points and to hell with performance?

I would suggest any frustration should be tempered by reality.

Still, I wouldnÂ’t want to be a fan of any other club.

Clearly your expectations are lower than mine. That performance was woefully boring and uncomfortable to watch. From my seat, I saw one player put a performance in, namely Lennon. The rest mightÂ’ve had their flip flops on. Lazy and sloppy, simply not good enough.

WeÂ’re not going to get much better until we can get the right quality of player and at the moment we have not a lot more quality than the relegation teams and significantly less than the top 4. There is no silver bullet for Everton, we either get the required investment, and the chances of this are close to zero, or we carry on season after season struggling for top ten finishes.

Brilliant move to loan Lennon from Spurs, what a great, skillful, hard working lad he is. He should be our first summer target as possibly our player of the season with Jags and Stones. It isnÂ’t all gloom but I doubt we will see a repeat of last season for many years now.

A great run of results though even though itÂ’s been hard work for the fans.

He talks utter shite and he is not bringing good practices to the team, the organisation work rate and application is nowhere near the level Moyes had it: every game the passing and defending goes slack and instead of coming out the dugout and having a word and letting the players know itÂ’s not good enough, he just watches it happen. Too many games this season and last weÂ’ve let leads slip and it nearly happened today again!

Also the penalty taker situation is embarrassing. Fair enough, put your club record striker on pens but, surely if heÂ’s not on the pitch, it goes straight back to your tried and tested left back whose record is up there with the best.

What good things is Martinez bringing to the club? I donÂ’t see us attacking any better, and I now see us defending a lot worse, wasting set pieces and making a lot more mistakes!

Next season is make or break in my eyes for the Spaniard.

The points may well have been won in the last five games but are we seeing a transformation in our style, admittedly today there was better stuff going forwards but there is still something lacking in the team as a whole. DonÂ’t forget, Burnley didnÂ’t sit back and dig in as much as many teams have this season, which gave us plenty of space to exploit but we still didnÂ’t manage to put them to the sword.

If we are happy just to win then fair enough weÂ’ll have to accept the points regardless of how they are won. We had eleven years of that, but I was hoping that we could have evolved from that situation but obviously I was wrong in believing that we could do so.

You all wanted to see results improve - results have improved, yet still youÂ’re not happy. I donÂ’t get it. You have to accept the improvement in results before you see a wholesale improvement in the way we play. ItÂ’s a two-step process.

Yet we have just a meagre total so far of 41, it’s nowhere near good enough. To challenge for a top 5 or 6 slot you need to be targeting 60 goals and we have fallen way short in attack this season.

Why should we "expect" points as a given? Because we were 5th last season, we expect the same level of performance this year? Why?

Teams lose form, players do also and it becomes a habit over time. It is turning around, results wise, for us but we have to accept that entitlement to win is not a given even to inferior teams.

In fairness, it’s been a fairly crappy Premier League season in general, not just for us. Chelsea have won it without playing all that good (typical Jose, I know), and the lot of us have been dicked in European competition.

It is all very well claiming that the result is all important, but it is the way we play that gives an indication of whether we are on the right track long term. We just couldnÂ’t find the killer pass or finish. Kone tried his best, but he often just made the wrong choice or took a touch too many, same can be said of Ross.

Good to see Macca having a pop at goal and, considering how important that game was to Burnley, we deserve praise for controlling most of the game.

Puzzling on the penalty and our managerÂ’s baffling quote. Why oh why canÂ’t he just speak plain English and say "I decided that Rom is the new penalty taker"? Instead he comes out with such tosh, really annoying.

Also, what was Mirallas meaning with his "Celebration"? It looked to me like he had been reading ToffeeWeb! Bring it on, Kev, keep scoring and you might see some nice comments.

If we were playing Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd and Liverpool, we would have lost all of them playing like we did.

Hardly inspiring but it was what was needed! Still waiting for the season to end though!

Martinez is saying that Lukaku would have taken the penalty if he had been on the pitch as he has scored the last 2 yet Baines was on the pitch and he has scored 15 out of the last 16.... baffling.

Goal difference may determine another place higher and as that will pay extra money every chance to score must be treated seriously by using the best penalty taker on the pitch.

We can complain about the lack entertainment – as Dave Abrahams quite rightly does – but these points have been much needed and should be welcomed.

I don’t know how you describe this place we are in. These wins would normally have me out celebrating, but IÂ’m sitting in the house on me Jack watching Leicester and Swansea.

What’s that song D Ream did?

Strangely, that just filled me with dread...

Our trusty commentators were waxing all lyrical about Kone later on, about Â’how well heÂ’d done, but heÂ’d have such a long way back from injury that probably/likely next season he would be at his top...Â’ There hasnÂ’t been ONE match where I ever was hopeful of him scoring, sadly. To me itÂ’s like giving up putting him up front... HeÂ’ll do lots of good outside the box, even inside, EXCEPT putting the ball where it should end up!

Injury prone IS injury prone. If you get crocked again and again, then again? Even mangers should pick up on what a Â’simpleÂ’ computer game managed to include very early on as a Â’statÂ’...

Martinez will be judged on where we are next season around the 10-12 game mark, if we are languishing in the bottom half playing shite like he has served up this season, then there is no other option than for him to be sacked.

WeÂ’ve been utterly unconvincing and lucky in some cases in the last 5 games. People have every right to moan because our season ended in Kiev and only after today, late into April, have we managed to secure our Premier League status.

The performances at this stage of the season are just as important as the results because we need some evidence that this team under the guidance of Roberto are capable of getting back to where weÂ’ve been for the past decade... and that is, in and around the top 6.

Sadly, at the moment, we look a million miles away from where we need to be. This team looks leaderless, devoid of spirit and direction.

Martinez was supposed to come in and improve on what Moyes had built. Last season, he did that by taking the shackles off a well-drilled, hard-to-beat and organised unit. He encouraged a more attacking approach to games and added more quality to the squad.

This season, he appears to have taken the shackles off the strict fitness regime the players once had and the players have been allowed to become complacent. Baines said as much when commenting about Lennon coming in and setting an example to the rest of players. It just all leads you to believe Martinez is Â’a soft touchÂ’ and neglects basic (but very important) things like fitness and a proper game plan.

We just have to hope Martinez has learned some very hard lessons this season, and prepares the players properly in pre-season by getting them fit and match-ready. He needs a good transfer window and needs to add some creativity in midfield as priority. The lacking of cutting edge in the final third of the pitch is painful to watch. We waste so many good opportunities in games.

I suppose we’ve experienced the Wigan cycle. Start poorly – Slight upturn in form – Terrible run – Start Winning/safety – Faith restored – Start poorly etc.

If we start next season poorly surely he has to be sacked, thereÂ’s no doubting that. Although the upturn in results is his stay of execution among the majority of the fans and the board.

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/571438/West-Ham-Roberto-Martinez-EvertonLink

The above three things are what Moyes instilled in the squad and are what took us from a relegation-battling team to a regular top-six contender. As Mark (#91) mentioned above, under Martinez, the standards look to have definitely dropped and we have become Â’softÂ’ and Â’sloppyÂ’.

The thing what annoys me the most is, when things arenÂ’t going well or someone makes a mistake, like taking a pen away from the regular taker and missing it, instead of chastising them and showing he’s upset and making sure it doesnÂ’t happen again, he comes out with the statement itÂ’s up to whoeverÂ’s feeling confident! What a load of bollox! He should be sacked just for saying that!

Like Gary Neville said, itÂ’s all about accountability; everyone has their roles on the pitch which they are given because of their own qualities, itÂ’s not a free-for-all where on a certain day anyone can do anything they fancy!!! What message is that sending out? I only hope Martinez is a quick learner and getÂ’s it right asap!

Alan @61. 21 shots to Burnley’s 10. 8 on target to Burnley’s 1.... Yes, 1. How was it undeserved?

The table doesnÂ’t lie. If you finish in the bottom 3, you deserve to go down. We could still finish in the top half and our league form is good since being knocked out of Europe. To say weÂ’re lucky not to have been relegated is nonsense.

One more thing that pissed me off about the penalty. When the ball came back off their goalkeeper, Burnley had 8 players in the box running back to clear the ball. We had 2, including Ross.

Yes, of course the reality is that it was wonderful that we won (did I really need to type that?) ... but hereÂ’s the thing: if the game left you with a feeling of less-than massive euphoria, then no amount of posts you read on here, telling you that your reaction to what you saw should not be frustration but something more effusive, will not make a blind bit of difference.

Have you not noticed the posts from members of the "Lost Tribe" who tell us each week that they have been going to Goodison for countless years and use these match-going credentials to back-up their higher expectations, based on fleeting moments of glory dimly remembered?

Yes, IÂ’m conflating different threads now... but I will always struggle with posts telling others how we should react, rather than posters just telling us what their reaction to the football was.

I hadnÂ’t realised how bad that Mirallas challenge was; he was a very lucky boy to remain on the park. Mind you, I could do without SavageÂ’s outrage even though merited, I wonder what he thought of Ratboy’s challenge last season on Distin – or was that the season before?

Secondly, there was no row over the penalty. Coleman went over to Baines, who had stayed well away. ThereÂ’s no confusion and using a missed penalty to have a crack at whatever agenda (RMÂ’s leadership, Jags captaincy, Baines being too nice) you have is ridiculous.

Thirdly, the difference between a good and bad penalty isn’t just whether it goes in. Barkley did nothing wrong with the strike. Hard low and in the corner – their keeper put in a very good performance and that was another very good save.

Lastly, IÂ’ve freeze framed the penalty and RossÂ’s left foot was pointing at the opposite corner to where he played it. So IÂ’m going to slate their keeper for going the Â’wrongÂ’ way.

The performances generally have been dire this season. In the past few weeks, we have seen an improvement in results mainly due to the efforts of Jagielka, a much improved Barry and Lennon whose work rate is markedly superior to the rest of our squad. Too many of the squad have had mediocre seasons while our attacking play lacks incisiveness and penetration. It is hardly surprising therefore we are unable to kill teams off.

As for the penalties, Baines clearly does not want to take them at the moment. Did anyone really feel confident Barkley would score from the spot this afternoon? He did not look confident before he took it. That is three missed penalties in the league this season.

I thought only Lennon of our attackers played well - all the others seemed to jog around dreaming of their summer holidays. How on earth can people say Kone played well? He didnÂ’t win a single header or manage a shot on goal and only occasionally completed a pass. He has to be the worst number nine I ever saw.

WhatÂ’s going on with the penalties? We used to be good with them. There seems to be a complete lack of leadership on and off the pitch.

We have the second-oldest squad in the league and it shows. We need a clear out in the summer - but can Martinez be trusted in the transfer market?

IÂ’m not going to apologise for complaining. I drove 300 miles to watch a poor game by highly-paid professionals who could have done much better.

I know these stories are purely speculative, however, I do get the feeling that at the end of this season we are going to see a lot of activity for all the wrong reasons. ItÂ’s been bubbling under all season and, despite the positive results in the last few weeks, all does not appear to be well behind the scenes.

I think the problem for myself and maybe others is when posts critique the game but it becomes a thinly veiled Â’Martinez OutÂ’ rant when that boat has already sailed. It just starts sounding silly when weÂ’ve won 4 games and are unbeaten in 5 and the manager wonÂ’t be going any time soon.

Burnley (H) Barkley - Missed
Newcastle (H) Lukaku - Scored
WBA (H) Mirallas - Missed
Sunderland (A) Baines - Scored
Man United (A) Baines - Missed
Palace (H) Baines - Scored

Scored 3 missed 3

I think Baines and Lukaku have also scored in the EL.

For us to be sitting at 50% suggest an issue, even if it is a small sample of data.

Could it be coincidence that it happens when we donÂ’t appear to have a regular taker?

Was Unsworth a great penalty taker, or was he just a regular penalty taker?

I was a strong advocate to end Moyes’s tenure and welcomed RM, but I was mistaken. I think the only hope of recovery is with another manager.

1) The almost farcical lack of clarity, preparation and organisation we have shown this season on the basics, penalties, free-kicks, corners, the basics of defending as a team and knowing who you are marking. RMÂ’s "explanation" of this at the press conference was rambling nonsense.

2) The complete lack of leadership we have among the senior players on the pitch. Jagielka, Barry and BAINES should have stepped in and taken the ball off Ross at that moment. We simply do not have enough strong personalites in this team, people who give it hell when things aren’t quite right. What I would give for a Rats, Reidy or Andy Gray in this team.

Martinez has given no indication of whether Ross, Baines our anyone else SHOULD have taken it because, as you point out, his comments were rambling nonsense (The Guardian reported him as "defying credibility again" so itÂ’s no longer just us who think it).

My view is that Ross was either the penalty taker today or no-one was and he got it by default. Baines didnÂ’t step forward. No-one else stepped forward. How can Barry or Jags shoulder any blame for Ross having a decent strike saved? He didnÂ’t rip it out of BainesÂ’ hands.

My issue is that we should be deciding who our first, second, and third choice penalty takers are. The amateur and semi pro clubs always do it in my experience... I canÂ’t believe the same doesnÂ’t happen in the pros.

ItÂ’s a season long issue rather than an issue today.

Why do people highlight the errors of certain players but leave out all the good bits? It suggests that their minds are fixed solidly in a fault- finding position even before a ball is kicked. Yes, you know who you are. So do I.

"Why do people highlight the errors of certain players but leave out all the good bits? It suggests that their minds are fixed solidly in a fault- finding position even before a ball is kicked. Yes, you know who you are. So do I."

Hmmm... reminds me of a certain Harold Matthews who last season constantly found fault in John Stones, was called on it by others, and as a result had a strop and Â’retiredÂ’ from TW.

Indeed, some of us do know who you are...

But wait a minute. There were stretches in the match when we didnÂ’t play like Barca...the football just wasnÂ’t " exciting ". Are you kidding me? I just finish watching a replay of the Chelsea/ManU game. It wasnÂ’t exciting but it was interesting, all the same. "JoseÂ’s a genius". The commentators words not mine. Sometimes you have to be boring to win.

We are finally showing a bit of spark and showing a flash or two of confidence. Everton are reinventing themselves a little more each week. The tatics have definately changed. We werenÂ’t world beaters today, but we were good enough to beat Burnley. ThatÂ’ll do.

IÂ’ll sleep sound tonight and smile easier tomorrow. Bring on ManUnited.

What Moyes was brilliant in was in dumbing down everybodyÂ’s expectations (the media, the management, and the fans) and make himself look like a genius when we reached 40 points. But he was found out at the first big test in his career and was unceremoniously booted out. He has never won any silverware in his career and I am willing to wager that he will never win anything (other than if he goes back to Scotland).

Martinez’s problem is that he has (naïvely) brought pressure on himself by building up expectations, and at the 1st bump in the road, the fans have turned on him. Martinez has won the FA Cup (I repeat, the FA CUP) against star-studded Man City with a club that soon seems headed for the 3rd tier of English football. That was a near miracle and it is only something as miraculous as that that will see Everton ever win anything in the near future assuming things at the top don’t change.

So, I continue to put my faith in Martinez and Everton would be foolish not to give him time to try and take the club back again to the glory days.

The man is an absolute clown, IÂ’ve gone from hanging off his every word to cringing and keeping away from his interviews; this penalty lark just smacks of player unrest or something that has certainly happened. Maybe Baines had said heÂ’d had enough after the last debacle, who knows?

Either way, it seems the players have taken over a large share of running what happens on the pitch, including tactics when you see how we have changed over the past few months.

We need to buy a CB and GK. I would go for Begovic and Shawcross, one of whom is out of contract, the other surely after a big move at this stage of his career (Shawcross), plus the lure of playing with our two England CBs. It would add stability in the middle as they know each other and also give us the nasty bastard at the back that weÂ’ve missing.

Alternatively Petr Cech and Gary Cahill if we find a fortune down the back of the Bullens.

It just seems certain players get away with things whilst others cannot. McCarthy will forever be the best thing since sliced bread with many supporters when in my opinion he is vastly overrated.

Barry can still be a good asset for us if, as you say, he is sent off for a good rest and used sensibly next season.

I am speculating, but it could be, as someone said above, that he has had enough after the Mirallas incident v West Brom. I think that his relationship with Martinez has deteriorated, as we have seen him give some interesting comments when on TV duty and after match interviews.
I think that he has now fallen out of the inner sanctum of players bought in by Martinez (Kone, Barry, Lennon, McCarthay, Alcaraz, Lukaku, Robles) and the in-house Martinez men (Howard, Jagielka).

It is a changing of the guard, and we will see MoyesÂ’s old retainers pushed out as time goes on. It is the start of GoodisonÂ’s Night of the Long Knives. Garbutt will be our left back next season.

Correct speculation and wrong. My seat in the Park End gave me the perfect view. As the penalty was given, Baines was in the left back position (not surprisingly). He immediately started jogging towards the incident but Barkley had already grabbed the ball and had already spotted it by the time he got to the edge of the box. There was a brief discussion between him and Barry I think but once again he was placed in an impossible position. Does he march up to Barkley and have a public row thus increasing pressure all around?

This is so simple and is a clear reflection on the lack of direction provided by the manager. This is not the first time but the third time in four months the same situation has arisen.

You simply agree in the week who takes penalties and thatÂ’s the decision. Not this fucking schoolboy first to the ball takes the pen. Quite simply amateurish.

Ajay, a couple of points, if I may. Wigan may be heading for the third tier of English football, but I think that there are only one or two members of MartinezÂ’s first team still there.

"Admittedly Moyes did a good job in his first 5 years, and his transfer dealings were largely good, but ’safe’."

Whether you like it or not, Moyes left this club in a far better state than the relegation mire in which he found it. He stabilised the club and made us, in general, a competitive outfit. And please, donÂ’t all line up to spout "knife to a gunfight" and other such shite. I was happy for Moyes to go but grateful for what heÂ’d done with the club.

As for the transfer dealings, Arteta, Cahill, Jagielka, Coleman, Baines, Oviedo, Mirallas, Distin, Yakubu, Fellaini. Compare those with Alcaraz, Kone, McCarthy, Atsu and McGeady. And Garbutt was brought in by him too. Barry has done well, and Lukaku has done OK, too, but I would trust Moyes with the budget before Martinez any day of the week

As for "he was found out at the 1st big test in his career and was unceremoniously booted out." I talk to Man Utd fans, (there are loads of them where I live!) and they have been a bit more reflective on Moyes just lately. Fellaini and Mata have been, in their words, Man UtdÂ’s best players and have performed far better than Di Maria and Falcao, the two big signings made by Beavis and Butthead who is playing no more attractive football despite a bigger spend. I think that, given time, Moyes would have been a success at Man Utd.

Excellent post,very well put. If we get a top half finish, even though we were all hoping for better after the managerÂ’s record points total last season, it would be a similar finish to MoyesÂ’s average league position over his time here.

Give Roberto time to bring his own players in to implement his style of football. Nothing wrong with the football he likes to play except it needs to be played at a higher tempo. It will have been bred into the players who stay with us next season and hopefully it will be enhanced by the new recruits.

It may take another season, three more transfer windows, to fully integrate the players into his system. I believe if we stick by him, we will be rewarded.

We have improved. We play some good stuff. We make mistakes. ThatÂ’s football.

IÂ’d like to think that there is a designated taker (and a back-up) in every match and that they have been practising them every week. Perhaps even researching which way, if any, the opposition goalie likes to dive.

What I will say though, is that the Europa Thursdays were a distraction, not just for the players but for the supporters too. Maybe we were all hanging our hats on that competition and the exit in Kiev was the reality check the players needed to break a level of complacency because weÂ’ve been unbeaten since then.

The penalty situation in the context of a match can be a critical detail, as witnessed by the WBA game, and therefore it can be the difference in winning the game or not. Therefore it is imperative that decisions are taken prior to kick-off as to who has responsibility for taking them as it means the designated player can fully focus on his task in hand without the unnecessary added stress of whether they should or shouldnÂ’t be taking the penalty.

Most circumstances can be catered for when it comes to penalty kicks and it doesnÂ’t take too much effort to have a plan in place as to who takes them even when substitutions have taken place due to the regular taker not being on the pitch.

The fact that Roberto seems to give a myriad of instructions to his substitutes prior to their taking the field suggests that the manager has plenty to say about what a player should and shouldnÂ’t do when he becomes an active part of the action. Surely then, something as important as a penalty kick requires the manager to do more than say to his team, if we get a pen, whoever feels like it can take it.

Perhaps, all of this was discussed prior to the kick-off and Barkley had been asked or he himself requested to take the penalties but the likelihood is that it wasnÂ’t and perhaps Barks was making sure that Mirallas didnÂ’t have the opportunity to pull a West Brom.

A simple penalty kick and so much conjecture arising from it could be an exemplar of what has been happening at Finch Farm all season or it may mean absolutely nothing, but footballers are like children and if there wasnÂ’t a clear plan in place before the game, then today and all of this week, we might have three senior players upset with each otherÂ’s actions for a variety of reasons due to a single penalty kick. Small details can make a difference on and off the pitch and that is why IÂ’m struggling to decide if Roberto is the right man for the Goodison hot-seat.

Other than that, I admire your faith and optimism.

Ross – without Martinez they are heading to division 3, with Martinez they scrapped and survived where they had no business surviving.

Ray – Moyes was a good manager, simply not a winning one. For winning involves taking risks and more chances of losing, but it seems that most over here would rather take steady upper mid-table rather than a slightly more volatile period that rebuilding and changing styles would require.

Even so, Martinez has proved that he can be adaptable – the team has been more pragmatic, even ’boring’, but results focused recently (but then anti-Martinez folks attribute that to the ’team’ and not the manager).

For me, he is still the best man for the job.

As for Martinez proving that he is adaptable, IÂ’m sure that one day the reason for the change in tactics of late will emerge in someoneÂ’s biography but there would appear to be an element of "player power" in the change of style, something Lukaku touched on by saying that he needs the ball played up to him more quickly.

Ross – regarding title form: we have the same record as Chelsea over the last 5 games. When teams don’t play brilliantly but still win, isn’t the old adage that it’s a mark of a good team? We have the same players as last season, give or take Deulofeu and the big gangly striker who never played (I don’t even remember his name) so I still think RM should carry on in charge (starring Sid James et al).

No club is going to sack a manager of a team thatÂ’s 13 points (14 if you count our goal difference over the bottom teams) off the drop zone, so all those calling for him to be sacked really are pissing in the wind.

The fact is that we all wanted better results, and we’ve got them. Now the next step is better performances – that said, many people on here (as Harold mentions) are all too quick to concentrate on the negatives given our shitty season, but the reality is that, first of all, a team and a manager has to steady the ship with results (done) and then move on to playing more attractively, scoring more goals and providing more entertainment. Patience is required at this point, patience and support, not constant negativity.

While IÂ’m happy with 13 points from 15 and that weÂ’ve regained the habit of winning games, thereÂ’s plenty missing. ThereÂ’s a lack of responsibility at the heart of this team, which preceded Martinez, but has been enhanced by him.

Maybe IÂ’m just an Â’arl arse looking for a type of player that doesnÂ’t exist anymore. Maybe I mistakenly believed Martinez could use his non-UK contacts to unearth one.

What yesterday proved was that Kone will not be the answer and needs moving on; Barry is twice the player when heÂ’s fit and has movement around him; and that Barkley is a talented player unable to impose himself on a game. IÂ’d take the first bid bid for him.

Whoever is in charge, we need a quality keeper, a centre-back, at least one midfield playmaker with an eye for goal, and at least one more striker.

We also need a manager who gets and keeps the players fit, organises them and gives them clear responsibilities, because this season has shown they canÂ’t do that on their own. Martinez must do this if he stays and equally, the players must either leave or knuckle down next season.

Preston: 48.29%
Everton: 42.08%
Man Utd: 52.94%
Sociedad: 36.00%

Roberto MartinezÂ’s managerial win ratio:

Swansea: 50.00%
Wigan: 28.98%
Everton: 45.56%

I fail to see what any of the above proves or disproves, given the nature of discussion about RMÂ’s record with Wigan vs whatÂ’s going on at Everton.

To not have a clear list of who takes penalties is absolutely laughable. For something like the Mirallas incident to happen and then, a few weeks later, STILL not have a designated penalty taker is unforgivable.

As ever this season, what goes on on the pitch has frustrated and depressed me... but itÂ’s what Martinez says in his press conferences that really has me shaking my head in disbelief. His latest gibberish about who should and shouldnÂ’t be taking penalties is, frankly, ridiculous.

I know itÂ’s not allowed to be said after this stunning run of results... but IÂ’m very reluctant to follow the crowd and just accept this clueless buffoon for another season.

Poor results, dire performances, just about every single player enduring months of bad form, no progression from home grown youngsters, no leadership... I donÂ’t know what BK judges his managers on but, as far as I can tell, Martinez has failed in every area this season.

And the worst thing about it all... Martinez seems entirely satisfied.

I too am still unconvinced, even though he will be here next season. I think he should have gone months ago but there we are. HeÂ’s got his stay of execution even though weÂ’ve been absolutely terrible all season. 4 wins doesnÂ’t mask that.

Any club in our situation falling from 5th to mid-table in 1 year would have sacked their manager months ago. Yet here, oh no, he gets to stay and the majority of the fans now think heÂ’s great because heÂ’s kept a top 6 squad up in the Premier League.

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/Roberto-Martinez-the-most-overrated-coach-in-the-premier-league/

Note this section:

Â’With that business model in mind, assessing results alone can be slightly misleading. That said: they still matter. If a manager is improving his players then they will generally succeed more often and results will improve. This has not proved the case. Furthermore, it is not just bad results that have alarm bells ringing but also the general incompetence that has become a hallmark of Marti­nez’s Wigan. It is one thing to play well and lose but something altogether different to fail whilst playing terribly.Â’

That sums up most of our performances earlier this season.

Â’When looking at each individual performer, one must wonder whether the reasons for their stagnation relate to their training.Â’ Similar to our lack of goals and impotency in attack:

Â’For example, one of the reasons Di Santo does not score many goals is that he does not take many shots, averaging a paltry two per game. Somehow, only two Wigan players take more. A man as well-versed in sports psychology as Marti­nez would surely be familiar with Wayne Gretzky’s maxim "you miss one-hundred-per-cent of the shots you don’t take", yet he appears to ignore it.Â’

This definitely sums up our problems for the majority of this season:

Â’Simply put, Wigan are fine at controlling the midfield but do not do enough at either end of the pitch, be it in terms of quantity or quality.Â’

Interesting article. Written a few months before Wigan won the FA Cup, but it certainly draws several comparisons to our season.

As Eddie asks @ 123, based on that reasoning, how do you explain Everton’s form between 27 November to 26 February – 3 months! – without the distraction of EL games, which reads:

P 16 W 2 D 5 L 9, the only 2 victories being the Â’gimmeÂ’ 3-1 home win over QPR and a scrappy 1-0 win at Palace.

Your response to Eddie @ 145 shows ... you canÂ’t explain it so the conclusion is, YES! It IS a coincidence and that other factors are responsible for our recent upturn in fortunes.

And IMO that is more due to the manager finally tweaking the system, taking a more pragmatic approach in our desperation to put much needed points on the board, rather than stubbornly persist with a system that resulted in the disgraceful sequence of results detailed above.

The cost of the Europa League on the form in the Premier League has always been highlighted as a reason not to be in it.

What were you expecting Ross? For us to buck the trend, to win in Europe and the League on a Sunday like the top teams do with a Champions League squad? WeÂ’re not at that level.

I am not blaming Ross for having the guts to take it. Rather that the senior leaders on the pitch didn’t step in and take control. In the WBA game, this resulted in one point rather than three and that could easily have been the case again.

That may sound like asking the players to compensate for the deficiencies of the management team, but is where we are at the moment.

That said, I do feel he deserves some credit lately for the upturn in our results, and on that note I feel he deserves a little more backing than your (and others) vociferous voice of continued dissent and wish for him to be fired.

No chairman is going to fire a manager (I’ve already said this above) who’s team is 13 points (14 inc goal difference) above the bottom 3, and unbeaten in 5 games. It’s madness to think otherwise, and RM will not be fired in the summer – I’m pretty sure you know this in truth.

We are not Wigan, we do not have Wigan’s playing staff (well, some of them!) and we are not flirting with relegation every season – remember, Moyes’s second season was a disaster and things changed dramatically later on and we became extremely stable in the higher echelons of the league, so why not RM?

Continued comparisons with Wigan are meaningless, given the nature of football. I find it staggering that people even bet on individual games, predicting scores every games let alone how an entire season is going to pan out. You might as well buy a lottery ticket and cross your fingers.

The season has been awful, the manager at times has made some shocking decisions, and non-decisions at times (Southampton away springs to mind) but you cannot deny the last 5 games have been an upturn, and the thing we all prayed for yet still many people are upset – even upset about winning 1-0 yesterday.

I’m not trying to change your mind because I know I can’t – it is frustrating however, to speak to people who completely deny what I see as facts.

The apparent triumphalism being expressed by some – that we were never in danger of going down – conveniently overlooks the fact that we have just won 10 games in the PL all season... and 40% of those wins have come in the last month alone, between games 29-33.

This squad, this manager, clearly showed just last season they are capable of so much more than the dross served up for the overwhelming majority of this season.

Why has it taken until now, so late in the season, to turn it around?

It would not be a big deal if we were 4-0 up and Barkley needed one for his hat-trick, but yesterdayÂ’s could have been decisive, so it is baffling.

Martinez clearly has been climbing a mountain this season and it looks like heÂ’s survived. WeÂ’re not privy to the dressing room but the shit certainly hit the fan, hopefully we (players, manager and fans) have learnt from it and move on to be stronger.

IÂ’m just pleased weÂ’ve finally remembered how to win matches and IÂ’m just as happy to credit players and manager when they get things right as I am to criticise when they get them wrong.

I said all along we wouldnÂ’t be near relegated. I got slated for it by some who werenÂ’t prepared to look beyond their view of Martinez. Nothing to do with the manager in my book; this squad was bound to hit form at some point, just as much as the worse teams below us in this poor league would continue losing.

So please donÂ’t confuse happiness with EFC winning with unaldulterated love for Martinez. IÂ’m bitterly disappointed in his performance this season, but when some people came on here wanting the likes of Pulis to come in a make us Â’solidÂ’ and produce Â’winningÂ’ football and then fail to credit the current manager for doing the same, well it’s just a bit much for me.

My strop came about because certain people wouldnÂ’t let it go and IÂ’m far too old for arguments. Retiring from TW was not easy and missing the fun of the summer window and the World Cup proved to be too much. IÂ’m very happy even though IÂ’ve lived alone for many years but, like you and the rest of the lads, I love chatting about Everton.

As for the game, yes we won but it was another dreadful performance – how can anyone be happy with that performance?

While the other factors mentioned are relevant, I still think the Europa exit was the catalyst and wake-up call everyone needed. Probably most in terms of complacency, and I aim that at the manager as well as the players.

So, yet again, despite the fact that you seem to think that how seasons pan out is not predictable (I confidently predict that Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal will be in the top four next season by the way), yet again here is the major difference that puts the lie to your cherry picking, simplistic pattern matching question:

David Moyes inherited a perennially relegation haunted, aging squad of players and a club near bankruptcy. In his second season he was safe long before the end of the season, and, IMO, this relegation team thought it was job done and took the foot of the gas losing all their last games. Roberto Martinez inherited MoyesÂ’ legacy of a well drilled, physically fit, disciplined regular Top 6 side who, despite the exuberance of "last season, have increasingly looked like a bottom 6 side since at least March last year, possibly as early as January as his ridiculously and boring "philosophies" have been comprehensively dismantled by much lesser teams. His spending, by the way, has been unprecedented in recent Everton history.

If it really IS pattern matching you want, then far more evidence is readily available in the pattern of seasons with Wigan before he finally did get them relegated, right down to the sudden flurry of results which got them safe right about now in the season.

So why not RM? Simply because, in my opinion, he is a terrible manager without a grasp of the most basic managerial skills and concepts.

With the right additions I expect us to be a top 6 side again, whether we can break into the top four will depend on the form of others.

What shocked me last season was the relentless pressure to win every week just to stay in touch. Unfortunately we fell short despite playing our best football for years.

Given what we spend and who we can attract I would be happy(ish) just to be in and around the top 6 next season.

I clearly question why it has taken Roberto and the team that did so well last season so long - 3/4 of the season! - to finally hobble together a winning and unbeaten streak.

It hasnÂ’t taken much, or a drastic change of personel to achieve this. There is a great app - 442Â’s Stats Zone, based on Opta figures - which enables you to look at and analise all the action from any given PL game (amongst others). For those of you familiar with the author of the excellent ExecutionerÂ’s Bong blog, he uses this app to analise in depth EvertonÂ’s games. ItÂ’s an app I strongly recommend Blues interested in such data to download.

Why do I mention this? One feature on the app is the Â’influenceÂ’ tab. This graphically shows 2 things:

1) each playerÂ’s default Â’meanÂ’ position on the pitch over the duration of the game.

2) a playerÂ’s contribution and involvement in the game. This is shown by different font size. The larger the font, the more meaningful action the player has made.

Right up until this good run, this player map was hugely predictable for the majority of the season... centre backs where youÂ’d expect them, full backs slightly in advance of them reflecting their overlapping intent, and the 2 holding central midfielders - for the most part, Barry and McCarthy - kind of occupying the space defined in our half of the centre circle, very much on the same parallel as each other.

In recent games that configuration has changed slightly. Barry has moved 5-10 metres back to sit closer to the centre backs and McCarthy has moved 5-10 metres forward, but NOT in advance of Ross as another poster wrongly believes.

Whereas for the majority of the season this central midfield pairing were constantly being pressured and having their pockets picked, leaving an unprotected backline exposed, now McCarthyÂ’s forward move is occupying the opposition midfield in more advanced positions, which is why we are seeing him creating more chances for himself and others at the business end of the park, and why we are seeing improved displays from Barry, both in his distribution and defensive covering, with more time on the ball.

A further analysis can be made about our full backs. Sadly, for the overwhelming majority of the season they have had little or no support for their rampaging raids they are renowned for. Since LennonÂ’s arrival, however, the influence feature on the app shows a closer liason between Coleman and Lennon which is clearly benefiting the team.

Sadly for Baines, he continues to be largely isolated on the left without a foil to his rapier like raids.

I hope youÂ’re right, Michael, about getting top 6 next season. We definitely need a very good transfer window and a strong start to the season to do that.

Other than MartinezÂ’s intransigence, the big difference has been Lennon, running with pace at the opposition, which frees up space for everyone.

Barry has taken a lot of stick this season, but IÂ’m wondering whether our crack Â’physioÂ’ brought him back too early from injury. Barry needs movement around him. He constantly got caught in possession while he looked up at the static men in blue around him.

McCarthy is looking more effective further forward. We still need a proper playmaker in midfield – we looked great going forward with Gibson in the team, but he can’t stay fit.

Your response to Eddie @ 145 shows ... you canÂ’t explain it so the conclusion is, YES! It IS a coincidence.

Your latest response continues to completely ignore our worst form of the season came in the 3 months and 16 games when we had no EL games to distract us, which rather makes a fallacy of your original (alluded to) claim that exit from the EL has resulted in an upturn in league form.

The poor form in the Premier League generally has been due to playing Thursday and Sundays, changing players each game, trying to rotate the squad. Our league form suffered as a result which clearly had an adverse effect on the squad.

ThatÂ’s in the past as is last seasonÂ’s record points total. WeÂ’re now winning games again, weÂ’re keeping more clean sheets but weÂ’re still all unsure of where we actually are. If we keep winning weÂ’ll do okay.

1. Is a similar type of performance going to achieve the same result against Manchester United?
2. If we are going to blame the Europa League for the woes of this season, does that mean that we should be rejecting any future invitations to compete in Europe unless it is the Champions League?

IÂ’d love to be as positive as some on here, but I canÂ’t see how performances from this run should be lauded. Like it or not, last season showed what this squad of players was/is capable of. However, even in a sequence of good results, performances have been uninspiring and turgid.

In an attempt to understand the positivity, I watched the extended highlights on SNF match choice when I got back from the game. To be fair, the highlights made Everton look comfortable. What it didnÂ’t show was the considerable amount of aimless, misplaced passes and obvious lack of impetus and tempo when attacking. This is no doubt because remotes wouldÂ’ve been clicking en mass and SKYÂ’s viewing figures would plummet. I was also interested to find out if the cameras had picked up the fella in front of me having a sly forty winks during the second half. Somewhat predictably I assume that was left on the cutting room floor.

MartinezÂ’s future at Everton will depend on whether he will get the players with him again.

I think the Man Utd game will tell us where we are, not in terms of silky tippy tappy but in terms of grinding out a result. Wins are all we should be concerned about right now given this season.

The fact we are winning again should signal a turn around in form, credit the manager and the players.

Simplistic pattern matching with what happened this season or a pattern?

In 2008 we reached the last 16 of Uefa Cup and finished 5th in the league with Moyes recording his record points total of 65 points.

How do you all (who blame Europa League for the demise this season) explain that one?

I think everyoneÂ’s pleased with the run weÂ’re on but I find it very difficult to muster much enthusiasm IÂ’m afraid, hard though IÂ’m trying to do so.

"Incredible" and "Phenomenal".

Like the rest of the BBC and media, IÂ’m gutted.
(snigger)

Not phenomenal at all, but it goes to show that Martinez isnÂ’t the only one talking out of his rear end!

Brenda, the first RS manager not to win anything in his first 3 seasons since the 1950s (though this last point illustrates the gulf between us and them in another respect sadly). Could this open the door to a John Barnes return to management? (LetÂ’s hope so!)

I watched the end on BT after listening on the radio, just to see Stevie MeÂ’s creased-up face.

Lovely!

There’s one big difference between now and the Xmas period when there was no Europa football – we were still in the Europa and it was therefore a distraction; just because you’re not playing games doesn’t mean that it’s not a distraction. Once we were knocked out, our form suddenly improved.

So, I can answer the question, Jay. If you choose to have a different opinion, then thatÂ’s entirely up to you.

I can now watch the FA Cup Final in peace without having to worry about the Â’specialÂ’ send-off for their glorious captain... and Man City won too, so not a bad Sunday at all.

Obviously we shouldnÂ’t be satisfied with schadenfreude at the end of the season, but it doesnÂ’t make it any less enjoyable. Nevermind, Stevie, youÂ’ve still got a chance to win your team a Europa slot next season!

Let’s see if we can finish strong now and nip into the top 10 to salvage some pride and a little more cash. Alongside this, I would like to see one or two of the kids given a proper chance.

I hope the FA, Sky and the Beeb insist on a replay as Saint Stephen just canÂ’t slip off into the sunset without his birthday trophy. Terrible, terrible news.

A great way for him to celebrate his birthday.

Is it any wonder peopleÂ’s perception of facts differs from yours when you need to make shit up?

CouldnÂ’t agree more, however a lot of people on here have double standards when it comes to debate as they continue to harp on about MartinezÂ’ record at Wigan.

Love the comments - Link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32369922

By the way, this time last season I was extremely anxious about the rs winning the league. TheyÂ’d just beaten City 3-2 and looked to have an easy run-in to win the league. It lead to one of the best TW threads for ages - "SaturdayÂ’s Dilemma" - when we were debating which way we wanted the EFC - City match to go.

Anyway, Stevie GÂ’s slip-up was priceless as well as this seasonÂ’s 36 second dismissal against Utd and todayÂ’s (heart-rending) failure.

Back to the Mighty Blues and IÂ’m still hoping for a changing of the guard in the summer. DonÂ’t think it will happen but I really canÂ’t see any glory under RM. Nice to be out of the bottom few though.

A slip against Chelsea to give the league away, a red card against Man Utd at Anfield to give up the Champions League position, and a dead rubber performance in your last Wembley appearance!

AllÂ’s well that endÂ’s well, enjoy your hot dogs and cheese burgers in LA. Goodbye and good riddance!

I love ToffeeWeb!

Bet Mrs Van Gaal had a wonderful evening, looking at him seething silently.

Mrs: "You kick off your clogsh Louis dear and IÂ’ll make your favourite - a bik hot-dok sausage, wid fries covered in mayonnaise."

LVG: "Leeff.....me.....alone!"

Loved watching Villa beat them today, and a happier goodbye gift for Captain Fantastic I couldnÂ’t have dreamed of... especially as theyÂ’re on course for 5th place and a spot in the Europa League next year. Brilliant stuff.

Not only can he not get the fitness levels right, he can’t even make a decision as to who should take the penalties. I think Barkley thought "My goalscoring record is dreadful, so I am going to take this chance to increase my total of goals."

I have to say we did start brightly but as the game wore on we went back to our early season style of slow pedantic passing at the back. I don’t think I have witnessed how few people are left in the ground at the final whistle as has happened many times this season.

So I’ve just got over 2 weeks to renew my season ticket to guarantee my seat, the amount of times that message was flagged on the screen tells me that not many are in a hurry to renew. Also tells me the club maybe a tad concerned about how many will renew.

There is no doubt that this season has produced the most boring football I have seen at Goodison for over 60 years take a bow RM. No wonder people are not falling over themselves to renew and the sad thing is I don’t think things will improve next season under RM.

Howard; Hibbert, Jagielka, Lescott, Baines; Osman; Neville, Fellaini (Vaughan), Pienaar; Cahill, Saha (Rodwell)

beat Manchester Untied on penalties in the FA Cup Semi-Final at Wembley?

How time flies when youÂ’re having fun.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32369922

By the way, this time last season I was extremely anxious about the Redshite winning the league. They’d just beaten Man City 3-2 and looked to have an easy run-in to win the league. It lead to one of the best TW threads for ages: "Saturday’s Dilemma" – when we were debating which way we wanted the Everton - Man City match to go.

Anyway, Stevie GÂ’s slip-up was priceless as well as this seasonÂ’s 36-second dismissal against Man Utd and todayÂ’s (heart-rending) failure.

Back to the Mighty Blues and IÂ’m still hoping for a changing of the guard in the summer. DonÂ’t think it will happen but I really canÂ’t see any glory under RM. Nice to be out of the bottom few though.

Wins breed confidence, letÂ’s hope the manager has learned from his mistakes. Look at the money RS have spent and their still trophyless... hahahahahaha!

Bearing in mind the debacle of this season, if the team starts poorly next season, I think heÂ’s used up his extra lives and thereÂ’s every chance he will be shown the door, early on in the new season.

Similarly the Â’ampleÂ’ transfer funds will reflect the risk that we start poorly, ie, do the lenders want to back Martinez with as much cash next season, having seen this yearÂ’s performance, as they would have done had we performed as expected this season? I very much doubt it.

Martinez is now at much more insecure, a reflection of his underperformance this season.

Never thought we would get there with the tripe served up this season. Yes we support our club through thick and thin but my goodness the manager is a lucky man. He has a chairman that will give him another chance. Come October with no Europa football, if we are in the bottom four, he will be gone.

The manager and players have a summer to get their fitness and energy levels up. Players in and out, the squad needs new energy. Please remember all we renew our season tickets out of hope – not the football!

I expect Roberto to keep us in the top half of the table next season, given the fact he has changed tack tactically, and will probably add a few useful additions to the squad in the summer.

The only chance of any real change would be a change of ownership, can anyone one realistically see that happening?

Where we are now (safe and mid-table) it would probably take something extraordinary like heavily losing the remaining games. TheyÂ’d be more chance of Martinez leaving himself for another job - West Ham?!?

So I donÂ’t think it has anything to do with being in the know. ItÂ’s just that we know from history that Everton like to give managers a chance. Martinez has had 1 bad season, and 1 that was exceptional, so next season will decide whether heÂ’s a charlatan or genius.

Not many people recall that Shankly never won an English honour, league or cup, in seven years, from 1966 to1974, although he did win a European trophy in that time, and Peter Robinson, the Liverpool secretary said plenty of Liverpool fans were writing into the club asking for Shankly to be sacked.

http://ynfa.net/ynfa-hub/#52415956

To play with confidence you have to start with a platform – build a momentum. Then after several games of good results, confidence builds; the players feels better; the football is quicker; players feel confident and sure of where to run and be and James McCarthy smacks that chance in the roof of the Street End net.

To go from black to white you have to go through a grey period first.

Additionally, those who say play the kids; we played the kids in 97-98. Oster, Ball, Dunne, Cadamateri, McCann. Add Farrelly, Thomas and Williamson – all relatively young too. Kids are rarely good enough.

Once every three years you get a young player good enough to be a first team regular. IÂ’m not talking Rooney standard, I mean your Osman, Gibbs, Flannagan standard.

Only once every 10-15 years youÂ’ll get a Rooney, a Billy Kenny, a Ratcliffe, a Harvey. A very special player.

Of the 6 or seven kids on the fringes now, hopefully one will be good enough for the first team. Those in the latter bracket would be in by now standing head and shoulders above his group.

Good on you Harold for holding your hands up and acknowledging that last season you were guilty of the very thing you accused others of in this thread.

I respect that kind of honesty.

I think weÂ’ve been here before Paul, you wrongly presuming IÂ’m addressing you when I speak of Â’triumphalism.Â’ You did the same on another occassion when you again wrongly presumed I included you in a particular clique that exists here on TW who, even more so at the time, prioritised their blind support and defence of Roberto over the welfare and well-being of the club.

You and I actually share many similar views. I know you are not enamoured of how the team or Martinez has performed this season. I also recall you early doors backed Everton with hard cash NOT to be relegated.

Like you, IÂ’m pleased - perhaps relieved would be a more appropriate word - that weÂ’ve finally strung some wins together to completely eliminate the threat of relegation.

Unlike many others, I never stated we WOULD be relegated, that surely we had enough quality to avoid the drop, but also like many I was full of angst for 4 months either side of the New Year as neither the manager nor the players were doing anything to change the alarming fall down the table.

Not once have I resorted to personal, gratuitous abuse of either the manager or players. Indeed, my contrarian defence of the likes of Lukaku, Mirallas and Howard in different witch hunting threads drew much derision.

IÂ’m not given to popular, short term, knee jerk reactions. I prefer to reflect, analise and try to take a balanced view supported by hard data, rather than fabricate emotional arguments, unsupported by logic, rationale or tangible evidence.

ThatÂ’s why I like such apps as the Stas Zone I flagged up.

I hope you downloaded it and enjoy it...

An Evertonian, Andrew Gage, puts them up on Facebook whenever Liddell makes them.

"There’s one big difference between now and the Xmas period when there was no Europa football – we were still in the Europa and it was therefore a distraction, just because you’re not playing games doesn’t mean that it’s not a distraction. Once we were knocked out, our form suddenly improved."

What is the well worn chestnut from managers and players alike? "LetÂ’s take one game at a time ... we are only focusing on the next game."

Added to your earlier claims, if you seriously believe your latest offering, as nonsensical as it is, no harm done. You only damage your own credibility here on TW.

If the players and the manager subscribed to your bizarre view and expressed the same in public, they would be rightly held up to ridicule ... and the whole lot deservedly sacked!

If as Gavin claims, once we were out our form suddenly improved, why then between 12th December and 19th February, when there were no Europa games, did we only win 2 in 12, not even scoring in 6 of them?

I said in an earlier post there may well be other variable factors we were not privy too, like disharmony in the dressing room around time we were flat-lining in the league when there was no Europa football.

ItÂ’s hardly breaking news that our manager has focussed his attention on the Europa this season. Once we exited the competition I BELIEVE there was a realisation that things were getting serious and the Â’Europa dreamÂ’ could no longer be used to placate fans. So our exit was a catalyst for Martinez to set the team out to get results over his preferred style of play.

So why would that be such a nonsensical claim?? If we were still in the competition IÂ’m not convinced we would be unbeaten in 5.. So I donÂ’t think itÂ’s a coincidence thereÂ’s been an upturn! ThereÂ’s no coincidence about it!

Would Martinez have looked at tactics to the same extent if we were set to play in the quarter finals. I donÂ’t believe so, and while I still think weÂ’d have picked up points, I donÂ’t think weÂ’d have won 4 and drawn 1.

IÂ’m not sure what other nonsensical claims IÂ’ve made to ruin my credibility, Jay, but IÂ’m sure that youÂ’ll bring them up mate ;)

Even if your disputable claim is true (which it isnÂ’t) that only after the EL exit we changed to a 4-4-2 formation that I presume you believe has led to the recent winning form, the question continues to be begged:

Why wait 3/4 of the season to apply such a (claimed) result changing strategy, rather than in the bleak winter sequence when we had no distraction from EL football and won 2 games and lost 9 in an appalling 16 game sequence over 3 months?

ThereÂ’s no digging. If you read #243 properly the reasons for my argument are there.

If you want to keep picking the bones out of this point then go ahead, but itÂ’s getting a little boring now. You are not the voice of TW, even though you seem to think you are. You just have an opinion Jay, the same as me and everyone else on this forum.

Although to be fair, IÂ’d be rather interested to know some of your opinions because IÂ’ve only ever noticed your posts when you try to pick holes in other peoples views rather than giving one yourself.

If he can just try to give sensible interviews (it was good that Barkley missed the penalty as it made him stronger -WTF??), and get two or three good signings and a decent pre-season in the summer, we may have grounds for optimism next season. With no European distractions, we should make the top six.

1) unlike some, IÂ’m not all over TW like a rash every day

2) in this particular exchange between us you have failed to see the clear contradiction in your stated opinion, as others besides me have pointed out: that our non-involvement in the EL is the reason for our improved PL form, offering just airy-fairy reasons, that somehow the EL STILL acted as a distraction over the 3 months and 16 games played with NO EL games at all. Again, IÂ’ll call it what it is. NONSENSE!

3) never once have I laid claims to be the voice of TW, unlike some who are inclined to believe they are. I represent my own voice and opinion, which is often contrarian to the popular.

4) if you believe I only post to pick holes in other peopleÂ’s opinion, rather than post my own, you canÂ’t be a very close reader of TW

ThatÂ’s not some ingenious tactical masterstroke, thatÂ’s just his inability to pick his best team in their preferred positions.

Of course IÂ’m happy that weÂ’ve started winning, but I can still see all the same issues which have plagued us for so long. This makes me believe that this is simply a Â’blipÂ’ in our results, rather than the start of a new direction.

We caused Burnley a lot of problems at times on saturday but then Roberto made one of his trademark strange substitutions and we lost all impetus again. Having had 2 wingers all game, he once again decided to unblance the side by moving Kone out wide. While Mirallas hadnÂ’t been great, heÂ’d stayed wide and created space for Baines and also for Barkley, when Kone (who isnÂ’t that great in his own position, nevermind someone elses) moved out there, he started to get in the way hardly linked up with the full back at all. He started playing with his back to goal, meaning we found it difficult to break down our left hand side.

The fact that heÂ’s still making the same tactical errors as he was at the start of the season is genuinely concerning.

I do regularly read TW and have done for many years before I started posting last year. IÂ’m sorry if IÂ’ve not noticed posts where you put forward your own views. You mustnÂ’t have posted anything that stood out on any particular thread.

To be honest, the only time IÂ’ve noticed your posts are when you begin by quoting people and then start telling them why they are wrong. But, I stand corrected and will start to pay attention to what you have to say in future mate.

I really want to see big improvements against United because if we play like we have we will definitely not win.

I said it earlier in the thread and IÂ’ll say it again - we (the Â’happyÂ’ ones) arenÂ’t happy with results over the season, but we are happier with recent results, and performances (winning games). ThatÂ’s not to say us Â’happyÂ’ people are suddenly delighted with our manager, the team or our league position but things are looking a little rosier than they were 5 games ago. Even those of you still filled with negativity must concede that small crumb.

I think I can speak for the Â’happyÂ’ people when I say that weÂ’re all in the same boat regarding the season as a whole - the difference now is that some of us see a recent improvement in results as a positive, whereas some of us see it as Everton still playing the same shit football weÂ’ve all suffered all season.

From a personal perspective, I think we’ve been better of late (results included, clearly) and have actually played some lovely football at times. Yes, we can still be laborious in build-up at times as well, but we’ve broken with pace on teams, scored a few nice goals, and won 4 from 5. With the above in mind, I would continue to suggest that both RM and the team have improved from earlier in the season, and that sometimes passing the ball about at the back is a good thing – especially 1-0 up against 10 men at the weekend.

We all want to see the team play sparkling football, but you can’t expect them to go from shit football, and losing games every week to suddenly setting the world alight – it’s a two-step process. First you steady the decline and get some results which they’ve now done, then you can move on to playing more attractive football and scoring more goals.

Nobody has a magic wand, and I personally still harbour my original doubts about the manager and his ability, but we have improved because our results have improved and I donÂ’t see that as a negative thing unlike many people who want instant gratification and a team that is suddenly amazing to watch as well as a team that wins games.

Something that has really annoyed me this year is that every time I criticise Martinez, people come back with "I bet you werenÂ’t saying that last year." The thing is, I was. Winning individual games is great, and overall he did well last year to get us to 5th, no arguments there. It was clear to me (and many others) though, that he had serious flaws which needed ironing out.

Unfortunately, some others only saw the results and were convinced that we were on the verge of a major breakthrough under a tactical genius. TheyÂ’ve then been absolutely amazed that this hasnÂ’t happened this season. If people just look at recent results and assume that everythingÂ’s rosy again, I think theyÂ’ll be shocked again next year, because the same underlying issues are still there and a few tight wins against relegation fodder doesnÂ’t change that.

As Patrick (68) said above, the points weÂ’ve picked up recently are very welcome, but, in all honesty, weÂ’d have been foaming at the mouth if we hadnÂ’t taken at least 9 points from those games. There are no gimmes in the Premier League, but a home game against a side which sits bottom of the league, hasnÂ’t scored for 5 games, and is reduced to 10 men in the first half is probably as close as youÂ’ll get.

Kone and Alcaraz have been two of the worst signings in EvertonÂ’s history. He continues to play Kone because he is trying to justify his decisions in the transfer market, sadly at the expense of the rest of the team and the fans. He has this sadly misguided belief that Kone will prove him right at some point. How? One piece of genius or luck will not make up for the utter dross that he exhibits for 99% of each game. The man has teflon boots. He wins absolutely nothing and when he actually does get the ball, squanders it to the opposition with amazing generosity.

If Martinez thinks that Alacaraz and Kone are football players, then this does not bode well for the future construction of Everton FC. Bill, can you not see this?