Lukaku grabs last-gasp winner

Stones
Galloway
Jagielka
Coleman

Makes me think that Coleman will play left back and Stones right back. Garbutt is on the bench, so if thereÂ’s an injury in Minute 1 youÂ’d assume heÂ’s fit to come on.

No pig headedness about it, as with the Distin "situation" although that is a bit of strange one to comment on as he was taken out for the good of the team after his poor performances.

We are playing Galloway, which will be interesting. Garbutt only making the bench, suggests he is not in favour.

A 3-1 loss IÂ’m afraid.

LetÂ’s just get this waste of a season over with and thank our lucky stars thereÂ’s no Europa nonsense next time to ruin it. Fair play standings pending of course... Suppose we can always hope we lose and this no hoper Galloway gets sent off.

IÂ’d prefer to see Bob go for many reasons. Why put him on the bench??? And not start him???

I give up trying to second guess Martinez. I give up with his stupid lop sided team selections. I give up on (now the season is over) why he still sticks with the tried and tested old players. I give up on the fact that he never gives youngsters a proper chance. I just give up. I really do.

Anyhow, heres hoping that inspite of Martinez, that the team can scrape a win today. Cause that is what it is all about. Not Martinez. But Everton winning football matches. COYBs.

We look a poor team really we do!

Martinez sticking to his favourites instead of listening to the fans as usual. HeÂ’s clueless, he has to go and take his coaching staff with him.

Last season, it was a brilliant second half, once Osman went off and Mirallas started to link-up with Lukaku. Last season, Ossie was injured, but I bet that this season Martinez leaves his changes either too late, or once we concede.

His signings are shite and not one player has improved his game under him.

The tactics and preparation are totally woeful.

You say that we all know what Garbutt can do. Well we also all know what Barry and Osman can do. We all know that a misfiring Lukaku can do. I donÂ’t see them being left out.

The writing looks to be on the wall. Another promising youngster will be departing Everton. And we sign up all our oldies.

And can we win today? Now that would be a phenomenal experience. Oh the joy of being an Evertonian. I think.

When you consider weÂ’re basically going to have the same squad of players with (what sounds like) the bare minimum addition of a couple of uninspired signings, it doesnÂ’t exactly fill you with anticipation for next season does it?

Barring some mid-summer miracle or an absolutely shit hot start that sends confidence soaring, I canÂ’t see how things are going to unfurl any differently to how they have done since December.

He has been frozen out by the manager after coming into the team and doing well.

Good to see McGeady in the mix for the second goal. I hope he can become a useful squad player for us next season and weigh in with a few more assists like todayÂ’s contribution.

I understand why people think that getting EL football again for the club would be a good thing, but I donÂ’t and am glad we got the 4 yellows. Nice win, too, and must be the first time for a long while that we came from behind to take the points...

And ... 1st time weÂ’ve won a PL game from a losing position since February 2014 (2-1 home to Villa). Saved from the shame of going through an entire season without doing so in the final minute of the penultimate game. Phenomenal...

If only we could start off like that.

How does a guy with no ball control whatsoever get to become a pro footballer?

Same every time. Play to his strengths, like we did after we went a goal behind, and heÂ’s a fantastic striker.

CanÂ’t help but feel Barkley prevents us flowing freely, starting to look like another James McFadden in my opinion, clearly has some football skills but just hogs the ball and basically frustrates both his teammates and fans alike.

Each to his own I suppose, but for someone who canÂ’t head the ball, has terrible control, canÂ’t play a simple pass, canÂ’t trap a ball, has terrible positional awareness, crap attitude, thinks he is way better than he actually is, other than that Jamie, heÂ’s fucking brilliant!

I think the main issue is going to be that with a limited transfer budget how much is going to realistically change.

On a positive we still have the basis of a good back five. I know Tim is unpopular with many but for me scarce transfer resources canÂ’t be wasted on a keeper. The other four pick themselves.

I would cash in now on Barkley, it would give us a cash injection that may provide an impetus if we could bring in a couple of quality players with the proceeds. IÂ’ve tried to keep faith with him but he has been really poor most of the season and despite occasional touches of quality most of the time he has made us a poorer side. The 㿊m you would probably get now is less than a year ago and the danger is it may continue to reduce if he has another season like this one. Unfortunately I suspect Martinez has painted himself into a corner and wouldnÂ’t contemplate it.

Why should he be chosen when thereÂ’s a chance he might not be here next season? Why should Martinez start using Garbutt in his plans when he could easily leave? Martinez needs to plan for next season with players who are committed to Everton. Playing Garbutt at this stage is only going to put him in the shop window for everyone else to see his ability, giving other teams an opportunity to get him on the cheap. Not playing him may give us a better chance of keeping him as not everyone will have seen him play meaning there may not be as many teams coming in for him. It also give others fighting for that position an opportunity to stake their claim.

GarbuttÂ’s situation though, should have been sorted out along time ago, last summer, even. Martinez has to take the blame for that. A couple of weeks ago, after the Man Utd win I thought Martinez maybe deserved another chance but after last weeks result against Sunderland, I really donÂ’t know again?

Anyway, very good result today.

Barkley had another stinker, apparently, and should have been replaced by Mirallas much earlier. Beginning to think, he is being indulged too much and has made little progress this season. Unlikely to attract any decent money so guess he will have yet another season to bloom.

A top-half finish looks a likelihood now so RM will be a fixture. But better that than a relegation spot which would have done for him.

Frankly, if he did absolutely nothing but put the ball in the net every time he got some decent service, I wouldnÂ’t care. ItÂ’s the service that is key and I can only think of a couple of games (Leicester at home and last weekend against Sunderand) where he has really let us down in that regard.

Stones absolute class at the back and Coleman looked good at times. Galloway grew into the game and with him a left footer, he will eventually line up along Stones. Not a bad day out at all.

Absolutely spot on

Osman is shit – err, no – he scored a great goal
Wait, Lukaku is a waste of space – no, 1 assist and 1 goal
At least McGeady is the worst Everton player ever – sorry lads, he played quite well actually, and got an assist.
Well, in any case, Martinez has to go – we should get Tim Sherwood. Now, there is a real manager who knows how to get his teams to win – bugger, his team got hammered 6-1 today.

I hate to make a dig at my fellow Evertonians, but the negativity of some of the posters all through the week (the Distin story, the Luke Garbutt issue) to vent their vitriol on the Everton manager had almost put me off this site. Thank god for today’s win. Sure, we have had a disappointing season, but shit happens, and we have to get behind the manager and the players that we have – not always dreaming of the next manager that we will get or the next dream players who will magically make us win the league.

Having got that off my chest, well done to young Galloway – a very impressive debut against a fast and physical side. Not a vintage performance by the team by any stretch of the imagination, but the team showed a desire to turn things around and that will do for me this season.

What is mysterious is that he obviously has it in him to hold the ball up and lead the line as he showed in that patch of excellent form recently. I suspect that he is one of those who has grown to regard the manager as hopeless and is also suffering from excessive self-esteem, so he plays when it pleases him.

Martinez has, though, undeniably used a system for most of the season that does nothing to play to the strengths of our costliest signing and that is the biggest shame of all. If we do play to his strengths - get the ball to him accurately from a proper number 10 and from the flanks, with speed - then I still think he could be a major asset, if only until his tit of an agent wants him out.

HeÂ’ll be with us next season so letÂ’s hope for vastly better service, 30 goals and a very big sale price in summer 2016.

Countless times today, Lukaku received the ball to feet (or head) in good to excellent positions — I call that top class service — and on 95% of those occasions, the ball bounced off him in some utterly bizarre direction that defied comprehension. His body language is simply horrible. His positioning is mostly well off what it needs to be... His effort is almost completely absent when it’s needed.

But... he made the cross (slightly deflected) that set up Osman for his superbly finished goal. And, at the very end of the game, Lukaku timed his run perfectly and applied much needed effort to get behind the defender and power home an excellent header that won the game.

Great stuff ... but it doesnÂ’t negate or excuse the preceding dross in any way. He had loads of really splendid service. He just canÂ’t hack it most of the time.

Yes. heÂ’s been largely awful and I certainly donÂ’t excuse that but to say that the service to him doesnÂ’t matter or that his being played on his own in front of the most ponderous midfield that I can remember at our club doesnÂ’t matter, is unfair.

I fully expect him to be playing for Liverpool next season.

Lukaku is frustrating but at 21 is terribly young for a main striker and his goals record is really good. Gary Lineker was useless with his back to goal at the same age but put the ball ahead of him and he scored goals. Rom needs the service to be right and a fast tempo,
thatÂ’s all.

Oh and a word for Ossie – gets terrible stick from a minority on this site but more than anyone he makes this team play. Yes, he isn’t perfect and has his faults but we will miss him when he retires.

As for Garbutt he didnÂ’t look too good last time out and I am not convinced he is top class. Shame to lose him but Galloway looks decent as a future centre back.

I would spend good money on Bolasie too as he is worth going for.

This lad frightens defences with his pace and strength and would really lift Goodison.

IÂ’m sorry but for me heÂ’s a terrible footballer; the ladÂ’s a man mountain but gets bossed around regularly. Last week, Wes fucking Brown and that RS reject didnÂ’t give him a sniff.

I agree that his goals have been important but to actually see him play is painful most of the time. And btw – you and I aren’t the only one who thinks he’s bog average: see Jose Mourinho and Marc Wilmots.

IÂ’m not saying the service couldnÂ’t be better, but that often needs something from the player himself as well, to be getting into positions where the ball is being played in... keeping himself onside (he did a lot better in that respect today), etc.

How many touches did he have today? To claim Â’lack of serviceÂ’ is simply wrong.

ps: What did the banner have in the bottom left corner? "--- is plenty?" I couldnÂ’t see it properly.

Good game, good win. Rom was gash, but he does have an eye for a goal.

As for Martinez, yes Its a nice feeling to win, especially having ended our duck of more than year since we won a league game having gone behind.

Does it change my view that he should be sacked? Nope. We have squandered the talent of our squad and gone backwards this season. We are further behind in our desire to compete with the top 4, which was the premise on which Martinez was hired. There have been far too many poor performances and poor results to overlook.

The comparison with Tim Sherwood is interesting. Not my choice to be the man, but he has delivered on what he was hired to do, which was make Villa safe. On top of that, they have got to a cup final and in Benteke have a forward who has been totally rejuvenated. Their prospects for next season are surely better for next season. The cold hard truth is that Martinez failed this season and we have a long mountain to climb if we are to become top 4 challengers again. Worse, the damage is self inflicted with his insistence to tinker with the team and revert to a style of play which has proven itself repeatedly to produce poor performances and results.

9-1 at White Hart Lane, 8-0 at Stamford Bridge, 6-0 at home against Chelsea, a 4-0 home defeat against Blackpool, etc.

Just because weÂ’ve won today, it doesnÂ’t automatically mean that youÂ’re right and IÂ’m wrong to want him out.

It doesn’t cover the cracks for what has been the most anaemic season for decades – little in the way of excitement, cut-and-thrust, edge-of-the-seat stuff.

To quote The Stranglers, something better change.

I agree in that respect but I was talking specifically about missed chances in front of goal which is primarily what he is paid for.

And when I talk about service, I’m talking about the ball in front of him in the box where he thrives. We all know by now what Lukaku is about – he isn’t yet (and may never be) a hold-the-ball-up, back-to-goal striker.

He is often a lethal goalscorer when he can run behind opposition defences or when the ball is loose in front of goal. He has suffered so much this season because he has been isolated and asked to play the kind of game he isnÂ’t yet suited to.

His first touch has improved but remains iffy and his layoffs often go astray, but put in the right areas and he scores goals. We just donÂ’t do that nearly enough.

------------

Michael: What did the banner have in the bottom left corner? "--- is plenty?"

It was doing the rounds on Twitter yesterday and said: "Kenwright and Co. ItÂ’s time to go. 20 yrs is plenty"

Was a bit surprised with Galloway starting ahead of Garbutt but he more than justified his selection, a very good debut, MOTM for me! He made one or two mistakes, especially allowing Downing to manoeuvre into space to get the shot off for his goal but apart from that he was solid, hardly got beat and what I liked about him was, was that he played like he never wanted to get beat, he got tight and made the opposition work hard to get by him, very encouraging debut!

Jags & Stones were solid aswell, Coleman was improved, Barry played alright for a change, made his usual silly tackles and got his customary booking! Apart from Osman, the rest in the final 3 were terrible for me. Lukaku cant hold water, and his link up play wasnÂ’t great, had no movement either. Barkley just amazes me, was brilliant last season but is a shadow of tha player this season and today. Every time he got the ball in the final third he always played back, never once turned and went forward. And Lennon kept leaving Coleman expose and wasnÂ’t much of a threat today, aswell as the last few games and I donÂ’t think heÂ’ll be back next season! And ive slagged McGeady off in the past saying heÂ’s not upto it in prem but he came on and played well!

All in all it was a good 3 points and another young gem probably unearthed in Galloway!

Good decision to try Galloway. Garbutt has not convinced me he is good enough for the top level and who knows what his wage demands are?

I donÂ’t share the negativity about Lukaku, heÂ’s a natural goalscorer and heÂ’s going to get a lot better. Many good sides now donÂ’t have a classic back-to-goal ball holding striker and itÂ’s up to Martinez to play a system where we play to LukakuÂ’s massive strengths. This means progressing the ball fast and wide and getting the ball to him when his momentum is forward. Playing the ball up through the middle and expecting him to hold the ball up is a 20-year-old tactic and we never use it to success against teams that defend well. They know LukakuÂ’s danger and how to neutralise it. I still see a diamond in him even though he has a lot to learn, I believe heÂ’ll be a massive asset.

Does anybody know whatÂ’s happened with Browning? He seemed so promising...

http://t.co/xEyvCZTzbB

As for today I have to agree with those that saw a substandard performance from our costly striker, he is similar to Barkley; they seem to believe they only have to be on the pitch to earn their corn. If both are still at Goodison at the start of next season they will have to put in more effort than they did today. But overall we just about deserved our victory for the effort and desire to score in the last 20 minutes or so, although the team should be doing far more, even though it was an end of season game.

I then come back on after a win sin miedo, only to be confronted by more bloody negativity. There are a lot of people in life that just love a good moan - in sure we all know a few - and this place seems to attract, or create, quite a few.

Or maybe itÂ’s Everton FC - IÂ’m only 28, so I may also become a miserable git in a few years!

Rant over (maybe IÂ’m nearly there - moaning about negativity!)

a person who is actively interested in and wishes success for a particular sports team.

ToffeeWeb certianly fits the interested part....

Look what youÂ’ve done to me Martinez!!!!!

By the way, I was very happy with the result but canÂ’t comment on the way the team played.

Many of the comments surrounding Garbutt today are critical of the manager despite ignorance of the exact background details, and there is no evidence that the lad is anything but a deputy anyway.

Ross, your comments about Martinez as Wigan manager need some perspective. Have you noticed where theyÂ’ve gone since he left them? Or perhaps he is to blame for their mismanagement this season?

Hopefully we can maintain this phenomenal achievement against Spurs next week.

Score, win? WhoÂ’s interested?

Lukaku, more often than not, makes poor runs. They are either asking too much of the player in possession or mistimed. This is something that he can work on and will hopefully improve on.

Yes, his service has been average, but he makes it look worse than it is. Too often you see him pointing where he wants it, and itÂ’s an impossible ball with defenders easily nullifying the threat. He needs to watch Suarez.

This one was hand-written, white on blue, and said "Kenwright & Co, Time to Go"

Maybe someone can find a link to the image?

All one in two goal scorers have plenty of missed chances in their cv. It goes with the territory.

Ajay your claim that Evertonians will be gnashing their teeth after a win is utter bollocks. If this thread stayed alive for a year I bet nobody would come on here and say that. You may have received support from the apologists who seem to want to make this sort of claim every time we win, but itÂ’s nonsense.

Tens of thousands of matchgoers make absolutely no secret of the fact that they think our manager has been garbage all season, but they still love the team. You are simply deluding yourself if you think you enjoy a victory more than they do

Their is a difference between supporting the club and supporting the manager. If youÂ’re upset by the criticism he receives on TW, I suggest you stay away from the Old Lady

As for the game at the Boleyn - we played very well for most of the game, with flashes of good work from every player, and occasional lapses from a few - Barkley being the worst culprit but he seems to be growing a pair and making a few tackles, as well as not being afraid to make mistakes which is good for him.

Macca was a driving force again, and Ossie is still the best football brain at the club by a country mile. LukakuÂ’s touch was missing as usual but he scored the winner so he can play like crap every game as long as he scores a goal - thatÂ’s what heÂ’s there for.

Even McGeady played well in the short time he was on the pitch.

IÂ’ll be sad to see Lennon leave as he gives us so much going forward and backwards - his workrate is really impressive and even though he may not stop every attack, he slows them down massively which gives other players the chance to get back into defensive positions - I canÂ’t stress how important heÂ’s been for us in the latter half of the season.

Bobby made the right calls today, against a decent West Ham side who clearly wanted to win the game, and how anyone could be unhappy with coming from a goal down in an away game to win in the 93rd minute is beyond me! The blues in attendance were delirious at the end, and rightly so :-)

You cant really be suggesting that of all those thousands of fans who criticise Martinez and want him gone gone, its only those who post on TW who will be "Nashing their teeth" ?

Its a silly suggestion and it stinks of trying to take away the pleasure of a victory from those who didnt happy clap through what has been a desperate season

Everyone has a valid opinion, thatÂ’s what makes football so great, but itÂ’s not healthy to moan even when we win. Sadly Evertonians are pissed off which is fair enough, but IÂ’ve chosen not to have the joy taken out of the game.

COYB!!

The point I tried to make above is that he is a natural scorer who, over the course of the season and despite his ineptitude (which is born of sulkiness), has been badly served by the managerÂ’s formations and by the most arthritic midfield I can remember.

Play him in a coherent and confident side, ideally with a striking partner/ serious Number 10, and you will have a massive asset.

I don"t think heÂ’s going to be with us very long because he is a young narcissist and he has a eurotrash agent, but letÂ’s not just dismiss him as a floppy Belgian.

I remember Drogba being compared to a dog chasing a balloon. How we laughed and how we all agreed.

Today there were good things to see and not so good things to see. As the Echo pointed out about Romelu’s performance, he showed four sides to his game today – if he can work a little harder and show more desire there is undoubtedly a 20 Premier League goals a season player in there, which is why many of us get so frustrated with him; it’s more about his attitude rather than his abilities.

Would that post read "Just because we lost a throwaway game"

Would. It. Fuck. Give yer head a wobble.

Also pleased with many positive comments for a change instead of the weekly bash Martinez threads.

And Michael, if Rom canÂ’t hack it most of the time, and still score 20 goals, your expectations for a lad of his age are unrealistic... a big useless Belgian? Really?

Ajay, the kind of post that makes me keep the faith with this site.

After 4 seasons at the bottom of the table, he finally got them relegated and then showed his true character by informing the Chairman that he did not feel he was the man to lead them back into the Premier League. After that, he continued to turn the knife by taking his backroom staff and some of his supposed better players to Everton. This led to a practically complete overhaul of WiganÂ’s team. No, he may not be to blame for this seasonÂ’s mismanagement but he sure left them in a precarious position.

Never seen or listened to todayÂ’s game at West Ham so I cannot comment on the performance apart from itÂ’s great to get 3 points.

IÂ’m going to lie down now and recalibrate.

Stop being so negative!

If you think that criticism of Martinez is the only negativity on TW, then you truly are the deluded one.

"RomeluÂ’s performance, he showed four sides to his game today"

Romelu, from now on, should be known as Big Ben. The c*ock that is.

Great result today. I have faith in Lukaku, good start from Galloway, MotD tonight.

No Des,

Not sure about Michael but for me IÂ’m a thinking that if we spend 㿈M on a centre-forward, I want the sum total of the Father, Son and Holy bloody Ghost up front for us.

That means the equivalent of Gascoigne, Lineker and Joe Royle in one player. Maybe you are happy with 10th spot in the league but IÂ’m not.

In fact, IÂ’m as angry as hell and my girlfriend is as well. (YouÂ’ll be hearing from her too in the near distant future.)

I want a centre-forward that says, "Bollox, give me the ball and IÂ’ll do the rest!" What I donÂ’t want is the fact that the team all has to conform to one particular player so that he looks good and scores goals.

I want a team that has midfield generals and wizards who can seasonally score 10/12 goals each which then tells the striker to sort himself out, contribute to the team i.e. learn how to control a ball being passed to him and then be able to dribble past at least three defenders and be composed enough to put the ball away into the onion bag with copious amounts of aplomb.

IÂ’m really into Lukaku but in future he needs to learn his trade or else....

ItÂ’s not Roberto FC, itÂ’s Everton FC. I love the team and support them, but I donÂ’t back the manager.

No one hates him or has a vendetta against him, but an increasing number of fans are turning against Martinez after the dross weÂ’ve been subjected to this season, the poor performances, the tactical errors, the fact that weÂ’re going to finish below Stoke and Swansea.

We donÂ’t all have to be happy clapping, robotic fanatics of Roberto like many on here want his critics to. He has failed this season on every level.

A win today doesnÂ’t gloss over that fact. So please donÂ’t say Â’A lot of Evertonians will be gnashing their teeth because we wonÂ’ or Â’We have to get behind the managerÂ’ like weÂ’re all brainless happy clappers.

No we donÂ’t. If he fails to deliver in terms of results, tactics, signings or performances, we as fans have every right to criticise him and call for his sacking, which should have occurred months ago.

Stevie me turned over on his finale, not a bad Saturday after all, see what next season brings without distraction of Europa league.

There are people on here that would rather Martinez and Everton fail than do well because they donÂ’t like the bloke and want him gone and they turn nearly every thread into a Martinez out thread.

But being an incurable optimist is not the answer to our problems on and off the field. If it was ,Roberto would win the EPL and the CL every season.

A bit of clear thinking is needed, I think. Bashing everybody, from the chairman down, while probably therapeutic for the basher, becomes a bit tiresome after a while. The bad stuff was not all RMÂ’s fault, and the good stuff didnÂ’t happen in spite of him. MartinezÂ’s failings have all been discussed at length, but his biggest fault this season, I think, is that he has been "found out" tactically, and that either he couldnÂ’t or wouldnÂ’t adjust.

Hopefully itÂ’s not the latter, and next season is a bit more positive. For everyoneÂ’s peace of mind.

As for the clown who manages, what a success heÂ’s been. HeÂ’s presided over one of the worst seasons of football in our recent history but still refuses to admit heÂ’s done anything wrong. But hey, Ajay, everything is rosy in the Everton garden because we beat West Ham and sneaked into the top half of the table...

Get real will you. Do you think anyone on here wants Everton to struggle so we can come on here and slag the manager and the players off? No – didn’t think so. One swallow...

I support Everton, I donÂ’t pillory them when we win, lose or draw. You canÂ’t win every game, and I see no point in reading TW when I know all IÂ’ll see is hatred. Yes criticise the manager - I have. But do itÂ’s when itÂ’s warranted.

Our failing is that it seems that it takes falling behind for us to rouse ourselves. This is what is frustrating a lot of us, because it has happened so often. We also seem to go into our shell after we go ahead, and invite the opponents to get the initiative back.

Martinez is showing that he has learnt from his mistakes and let us hope that he can continue to do so. There were great teams that could play at a slow tempo, and then suddenly switch to a high tempo, and bang, a goal, but it takes good players to be able to do it. A really good creative midfielder is what we need more than anything.

Measured and well put together thread. Agree with almost all you say.

ThereÂ’s a "vitriolic lynch mob"? Really, Harold? You of all people stoop to that level? Could it just be people with different opinions than your own, who donÂ’t see things quite the way you do?

Jamie says "There are people on here that would rather Martinez and Everton fail than do well because they donÂ’t like the bloke and want him gone and they turn nearly every thread into a Martinez out thread." (Emphasis added)

I think youÂ’re deliberately mischaracterizing whatÂ’s going on here, Jamie. Of course there are fans who dislike the manager and what he has done this season. And there are those who still want to give him the benefit of the doubt. As almost polar opposites, theyÂ’re not going to coexist very easily, and will use a variety of tricks to do down the othersÂ’ opinions. That means putting their own interpretation on the same information to support their entrenched positions. ItÂ’s called confirmation bias and weÂ’re all prone to it.

Even so, the number actually seeking Everton to fail is very, very small: perhaps one or two individuals. For most of us, that position is unacceptable... but if they see it as a path towards a greater good for the benefit of the club they love, are we really right to castigate them? Again, just because itÂ’s different from what we think, believe or accept?

I can well understand others, like James Marshall, wanting to come on here and only read certain types of posts; then feeling upset and depressed when he finds less of those that he wants to read and more that he doesnÂ’t want to read. But take a step back and look at it: itÂ’s the same thing going on. To call it Â’hatredÂ’, again, because it doesnÂ’t fit with your personal view, is a bit much, donÂ’t you think?

People look at the same thing (in this case, todayÂ’s game) and react in completely different ways. I canÂ’t explain exactly why it is... but itÂ’s a product of our make-up as individuals and IÂ’m pretty sure itÂ’s not going to change anytime soon.

As Ken Buckley rightfully pointed out in his report, imagine Barkley with Ossie’s brain. I want to add heart but I think Barkley may have the heart – he’s just very confused.

I do like to hear the views of fellow Blues, and obviously like a good rant every now and again. I was definitely more optimistic about the Blues before I started coming on here.

Maybe sub-forums for post-game analysis, constructive criticism and ideas for the next game.... and another sub-forum for those who just want a good moan, and to bash, berate and vilify the players/managers? Just an idea – obviously people can dip in and out of each, depending on what mood they’re in.

I think this is what youÂ’re after...

http://thenicestplaceontheinter.net/

Should all TW posters accept the present status of club like you do and say nothing?

When the team wins it is despite RMÂ’s tactics and selection, if we lose it opens the gate to vitriol and personal abuse... some of which is borderline unhinged. As someone who did NOT support the appointment of RM, is that what we have become as a club and supporters? Because I always thought we were better than that, the sort of reactionary stupidity we assign to Villa or Newcastle fans.

I have always taken the view that you should not write something about someone you wouldnÂ’t look them in the eye and say. Well I sincerely doubt that many on here who abuse RM on here would do that if they met him. Plus I wonder how proud they would be if their family read some of the things they have been posting?

So lynch mob does seem an appropriate term for how the debate has unfolded here on TW this season. NO-ONE on here thinks that this season has been anything other than a major disaster and a huge disappointment. How we process that says a lot about our individual and collective character as Evertonians.

LetÂ’s hope for lots of positive transfer activity and a positive new season!!

He has just become the first Everton player since Yakubu to score 20 goals in a season. We should look on the positive side of that, not highlight how many he misses.

His comments last week about Ross, and also about not needing a new striker, were unnecessary, and bordered on the absurd. Maybe he needs advice from an elder statesman at the club. As long as he makes these outrageous statements, he will attract negative posts.

I donÂ’t want anyone to stop posting. The difference of opinion is what makes this the site I visit maybe 50 times a day. I just wish certain people would stop turning a thread about "the colour of the new kit" (made up) into a Martinez out thread because he doesnÂ’t understand Everton or he lacks class because itÂ’s the wrong shade of blue.

Thanks for that. Can you confirm that thereÂ’s not a bunch of glum gobshites spouting the same old shite after every game, regardless of whatÂ’s actually gone on?

Thanks in advance.

Lucky, arenÂ’t we?

What are you going on about mate?

Let me expose the huge gaping hole in AjayÂ’s whine to you.

Lets start with the people who are patting him on the back and saying they are sick of the negativity.

One of them a favourite poster of mine (Alright Col?) will consistently and persistently criticise players in an attempt to exonerate the manager from all criticism.

One of them was murdered on here because of his persistent "vitriol" against a young player, enough to make him quit the site for a while.

Another who persistently bleats about Â’negativityÂ’ actually called Distin a Gobshite on a current thread, blaming him entirely for the rift with the manager.

You see the people who criticise Lukaku are not necessarily the same people who criticise Osman, or Martinez, the People who criticise the Manager are not necessarily the people who criticise McGeady, and the people who criticise the negative are definitely not as positive as they claim to be.

I donÂ’t mind the hypocrisy, itÂ’s the stupidity that annoys me.

If you are constantly on your guard against criticism of the manager or a particular player, you will only ever notice criticism of him and the site will appear negative... those who refuse to acknowledge their own negativity to attack others, you are indeed deluded.

MK nails it squarely on the head with his " confirmation bias" theory. Never heard the term before, but having googled it...

IÂ’m not bothered about criticism of any player or member of staff, and IÂ’m certainly not offended by swear words, but there should be a constructive element to it. Identifying an issue and offering an opinion on a feasible solution, replacement, alternative, etc.

Or maybe the problem is my own and the solution is to stay the fuck away from TW comments sections! Sounds like the best way to go!

I like to think I’m more pragmatic in terms of manager and players: we have the ones we have. I see no point in endlessly campaigning for them to stay or go, or for us to bring in specific replacements. The world doesn’t work like that – I definitely blame Football Manager for the prevalence of that tendency.

For me, itÂ’s match by match, with the players that are selected, based on what they do. Pure and simple. My matchday summaries are intended to be a record of the action, not from the view of a neutral observer, but (at one time, a lot more) passionate Evertonian. So yes, itÂ’s criticism they get if they cock up. Why not call it as we see it? I would hope we all do exactly that.

This request from Christopher Wallace that we limit it to "constructive criticism" seems to miss the point of an online forum, in contrast to the real world out there. We are not personal coaches to the players; we are not the managerÂ’s mentor... weÂ’re fans with a strong emotional bond to the club. If we had personal face-to-face responsible relationships with them as individuals, then yes, that would be the framework for constructive criticism. Online comment? I donÂ’t think so.

Some of us are more judgemental than others, we focus on different things... I’m back on the old topic of different opinions – not just about the players and the manager, but how we express them. There are boundaries, obviously... but on TW we try to make those boundaries as wide as we can to accommodate a broad swath of what might in technical terms be described as ’reasonable criticism’.

I can see that this approach will inevitably cause friction and angst for each of us as individuals with a view of things that is inevitably narrower; the natural reaction is to want the breadth of discussion to be limited to our own personal boundaries. Unfortunately, if youÂ’re sharing views with others who may not be exactly Â’like-mindedÂ’, thatÂ’s simply not going to happen.

For me, I suspect that harping on about Â’pessimismÂ’ and Â’negativityÂ’ on here is actually a generalizing mechanism for rejecting segments of what is (for the voicers at least) valid and genuine concern in one form or another. IÂ’m concerned that it might be a way to devalue rather than address the underlying concerns of the fans expressing this Â’unacceptableÂ’ criticism.

ItÂ’s been a dreadful season in many respects, but some of course think itÂ’s not as bad, or prefer to look forward rather than backward. Again, it comes down to different individual responses. Some we agree with; some we donÂ’t. TÂ’was ever thus. LetÂ’s not get too precious about it. ItÂ’s an online forum!!!

You have to try and accommodate their negativity mate. Their heads will explode with anger like that guy in the film Scanners if they donÂ’t have their daily rant about their favourite subject. IÂ’ve been guilty of the occasional rant myself in the case of Howard and Distin but I do try to leave this to threads that concern them.

So I think that youÂ’re like me in that you donÂ’t want to read someoneÂ’s (daily) opinion about the manager (or any other personal agenda) when its posted to an innocuous thread like the new Everton strip for next season.

IÂ’m turning over a new leaf, MK. Martinez isnÂ’t going anywhere. So I will be backing him throughout the summer as he tries to rebuild with the pittance he will be afforded by this board.

If he gets off to a flier, I will be a very happy chappie; if heÂ’s still stinking the place out, I suspect it wonÂ’t be long before IÂ’m screaming the house down again.

Nobody on TW would say they were satisfied with how the seasons panned out. Everyone has their own ideas about the manager and I believe everyone except maybe one or two exceptions want Everton to do do well, even if it undermined their anti-Martinez rhetoric by us having a good pre-season and getting off the blocks quickly next season.

I think the issue for some is more about repetition and the context in which certain issues are used - Is a thread about an away win, the best way to bring up a rant about the manager..when a couple of people use nearly every other thread as a platform throughout the week to do it??

I donÂ’t believe anyone on TW is offended by people who want Martinez Out, I for one, am not. Although it does irk when you try to say anything to the contrary and you are then shouted down as a Martinez apologist.

When it might just be you want to be more measured and pragmatic and look at it as - Martinez has had one amazing season and one of underachievement. So itÂ’s reasonable to think he should be given the start of the third to find out conclusively whether he is a maverick genius or fraud who just got lucky last season. I would hate to think what could have been if he was sacked and then went on to be a success at his next club.

Even if someone takes the aforementioned viewpoint I donÂ’t think theyÂ’re happy with the state of things and the way the gloss has come off MartinezÂ’s positivity and the way he sounds like a lunatic sometimes with the irritating choice phrases - Actually IÂ’m surprised no one at the clubs PR departments pulled him to one side and asked him to try and use a different adjective from Â’phenomenalÂ’ and not to mention moments, in every single interview.

Anyway, as I say I donÂ’t think the issues about being offended about rants, its just the repetition and context that can leave some feeling a bit depressed and weary sometimes.

Nobody on TW would say they were satisfied with how the seasons panned out. Everyone has their own ideas about the manager and I believe everyone except maybe one or two exceptions want Everton to do do well, even if it undermined their anti-Martinez rhetoric by us having a good pre-season and getting off the blocks quickly next season.

I think the issue for some is more about repetition and the context in which certain issues are used - Is a thread about an away win, the best way to bring up a rant about the manager..when a couple of people use nearly every other thread as a platform throughout the week to do it??

I donÂ’t believe anyone on TW is offended by people who want Martinez Out, I for one, am not. Although it does irk when you try to say anything to the contrary and you are then shouted down as a Martinez apologist.

When it might just be you want to be more measured and pragmatic and look at it as - Martinez has had one amazing season and one of underachievement. So itÂ’s reasonable to think he should be given the start of the third to find out conclusively whether he is a maverick genius or fraud who just got lucky last season. I would hate to think what could have been if he was sacked and then went on to be a success at his next club.

Even if someone takes the aforementioned viewpoint I donÂ’t think theyÂ’re happy with the state of things and the way the gloss has come off MartinezÂ’s positivity and the way he sounds like a lunatic sometimes with the irritating choice phrases - Actually IÂ’m surprised no one at the clubs PR departments pulled him to one side and asked him to try and use a different adjective from Â’phenomenalÂ’ and not to mention moments, in every single interview.

Anyway, as I say I donÂ’t think the issues about being offended about rants, its just the repetition and context that can leave some feeling a bit depressed and weary sometimes.

Is that the same pensioners snorting coke in British bingo halls?

Naughty old people eh! ;-)

People are complaining about others who feel TW is too pessimistic/depressing for them, and someone above even cites me as being someone who doesn’t respect other people’s pessimistic opinions, yet I stated that I simply don’t bother looking at TW – I fail to see how that equates to not being accepting of others’ viewpoints. If I was contesting the pessimistic view then fine, but I’m not, I just don’t read it anymore.

Case in point – Michael in the OP calls Lukaku ’useless’, yet he’s just scored 20 goals for us this season. You see what I mean? That just reads like pointless pessimism, levelled at a young player with a great scoring record. Lukaku has a terrible touch, and can appear lazy, but he’s a striker – strikers score goals and I’ll take his 20 goals this season!

Prior to that, when I actually made that sadly accurate assessment, heÂ’d missed numerous chances in this game and showed off some of his horrific ball-control Â’skillsÂ’ that produced exactly nothing in terms of end product. This on the back of a dreadful but all too customary display against Sunderland. I think you know the rest.

And this must be some subtle irony: "I simply don’t bother looking at TW – I fail to see how that equates to not being accepting of others’ viewpoints." Err... could it be that the reason you don’t bother looking at TW is because you are not accepting of others’ viewpoints? Didn’t you say as much already?

I actually find it somewhat arrogant that people actually come on here and strongly suggest what we should actually write/post, thatÂ’s just ridiculous. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as itÂ’s not personal attacks and I honestly donÂ’t see any of that on this thread.

I think I judge him against what he’s capable of – not what other strikers in the Premier League are doing. (Although watch that Gomis strike for Swansea on MotD2 tonight... class!)

Michael, on the Lukaku issue - perception is everything, and if you prefer to judge a striker on his all-round game then youÂ’re absolutely right, he can often be shocking and I agree entirely. If you prefer to judge a striker on the goals he scores, then LukakuÂ’s record holds up with some of the best strikers in the game at his age. Personally I like to go with the latter - although I do shake my head at times during games with his erratic play. Strikers need to be selfish and arrogant to succeed, and although Lukaku is nowhere near the best at linking up play, he certainly knows where the goal is, and for me, thatÂ’s what counts.

It will be interesting to see who Roberto brings in to strengthen the team but "a schemer" to use the old parlance, is a top priority.

Good win by the lads at the week end and IÂ’m glad to see the young fullback have such a composed first game for us.

I know he’s not everyone's cup of tea but the bloke is Everton through and through; as he keeps reminding us all, if the right offer from the right type of person comes along, he will sell his stake. Do we really want to be owned by a rich investor that knows nothing about our history? We could end up like the RS – just another club desperately chasing success.

Ossie was clearly delighted and the rest of the team just walked off... Looked really weird to me!?

My point precisely. ItÂ’s not something you can make up to suit an argument.

The guy has been a millstone around the neck of this club for 20 years. He is in it as long as he can feed off the Premier League gravy train. The club is his train set and heÂ’s not letting anybody else have a turn.

I am often asked: 'How does Everton do it'
How do we consistently perform so well in these days
of cheque book fuelled football? More often than
not, that question is asked by rival fans after another
stunning performance against a club with vastly
greater wealth than ourselves.....

.....On a final note, my desire to find a person, or
Institution, with the finance to move us forward has
not diminished. Despite the challenges presented
by a global economic downturn, we remain positive
and determined. We will find major investment.
My commitment to serve this football club to the
very best of my ability remains a constant in my life
and I am aware of the trust you put in me to do that.
My motivation is simple. I am an Evertonian. That's
enough for me.

I donÂ’t see how his desire to find a person, or institution with the finances to move us forward can be translated into I will sell the club. The next decade will be very much like the last decade as long as we donÂ’t get relegated and that BillÂ’s health holds up. If anybody listened to The Blue Room last night on the radio they will realise that Joe Beardwood doesnÂ’t think that the club are doing such a bad job and that we could be spending too much of our income on wages - stand by for reductions in the wage bill in future seasonÂ’s?. There was also a National Jouranlist whose name escapes me - Jonathon somebody, who hadnÂ’t realised that it was 20 years since we won a trophy and more or less said that Everton FC were an irrelevance in this global football world - Barcelona as a news story in England are more important than most PL teams and they probably get more coverage than Everton in the national media.