Martinez: Atsu will need time

The trouble is, isn't Atsu going to the African Nation's in January? So in other words, all we can expect of him is a smattering of performances between February to May?

Sometimes it's difficult to really pay much attention when Martinez talks about timescales. We heard the same about Traore coming back and playing a part last season thus the reason for him staying at the club.

Regarding Atsu, I have never known why it takes a player who has played in a World Cup so long to get on the pitch and simply just do what he's meant to be good at.

Deulofeu had his problems but straight away you could see what he could do and what his strengths were. What exactly is going to take Atsu so long?

This is one of the many reasons each summer why I always wish for us to sign players who have already had experience of playing in the English Premier League. I hate all this 'bedding in' period, when what we really need is a player out there doing his bit right here and now.

Physicality of the Premier League is what it is – everyone knows that and as stated above, if you are good enough it doesn't matter if the opposition are trying to push you off the ball.

The lad looks like Jimmy Cranky in stature, he even has smaller legs than Drenthe, and he must have stolen his from an 11-year-old kid.

We have a squad short on quality and facing lots of games. If we're taking loan players, then we need ones who can come in and perform from the off.

I'm positive we've got far better prospects in the Under-21s who will never see Premier League action. In spite of all the soundbites, this manager is as reluctant as his predecessor to bring kids in. Worse, in fact.

I'm afraid to say, I see even less chance of Atsu coming good by January.

I hope Roberto is able to bring some of the other young lads through soon... a question of timing I guess – but some are getting some really good write-ups from various quarters, if only as potential.

Atsu is just a poor signing and not up to the same standard.

Mediocrity threatens us this season. We've got several players now that do one or two things alright each game but, over 90 minutes, don't contribute enough. Then we see them making mistakes forced upon them by opponents and next minute we're trailing in the match.

Every minute Atsu spends on the pitch to "adapt to the physicality of the Premier League" is time we could be giving to our own youngsters.

Are our own Under-21 wingers really so much worse than Atsu? They must be absolutely terrible to be less effective than he has been so far.

Hey, didn't that lot win a thing or two?

As we have said regarding Atsu, if this is a lad with international experience, then surely it shouldn't take him half a season to get on the pitch against some average full-back and toast him a few times before putting a good cross in? He may not be that good but perhaps Martinez is under selling him a bit.

I can understand how he doesn't want him under unnecessary pressure but, with injury to Kevin Mirallas until Christmas, we need the likes of Atsu and McGeady to start bloody delivering.

There's another name Martinez said we'd now be seeing the best of... Aidan McGeady. He hasn't delivered the big performance levels Martinez expected of him.

All three, whenever I have seen them play or the highlights, look like good energetic lads who'd have done a good job for us – not world beaters by any stretch of the imagination... but certainly they would have offered far more than we've seen on the flanks this season.

On a different note, I just put TalkSport on and in an instant heard Colin Murray and Danny Murphy talking to that legend Jimmy (Shithouse) Case. A reds love-in whinging why Jimmy didn't get an England Cap. I had to turn it straight off in honour of Geoff Nulty.

I'd like to see Atsu play in his preferred position on the left rather than have him in position he's never played before.

That's a novel idea, Iain

The second we knew he wouldn't be fit for the rest of the season he should have been packed off to John Lennon Airport with a handshake.

I would also question the wisdom of loaning players who are only going to play a handful of games at best. We don't have a squad big enough to carry passengers so, if they're not ready, then don't loan them.

I'm really beginning to get cheesed off with RM. His duds are beginning to outnumber his successes by a wide margin.

Robles – dud
Kone – dud
McGeady – dud
Atsu – dud
Alcaraz – dud
Deulofeu – inconsistent
Barry – good but too old
Lukaku – good on his day
McCarthy – success

So, out of nine players only one has really bedded in. McCarthy is the right age, he's consistent, and he does what it says on the tin. The rest are a collection of 'wanna-be's, 'used-to-be's, and 'never-were's.

The barcodes gave Pardew a long contract on the back of one decent season. It appears they made a big mistake. Let's hope we haven't made the same mistake.

Senderos and Gardner were brought in to bulk up the squad just in case of injuries... cheaper than buying, I suppose.

As said in previous posts, the next six games will determine whether the manager has a future here that provides more than the struggle we endured under Smith and Co.

In the case of Bent I think he played beyond people's expectations, as have the players you mentioned for their clubs. Unless you can go into the future, it's all 'what if's so there's no point losing any sleep over it.

Atsu doesn't look a good signing at the moment but I would have preferred him at the start of the season to the other three players. Let's hope it's just a case of him getting used to the rigours and pace of the EPL rather than innate ability.

Can everyone who reads and writes on this site please keep one thing in mind – we've only played SEVEN league games. Give the manager and team a chance, ffs. Every club comment is followed by a torrent of negative shite.

On Atsu, he hasn't set the world alight yet but it's not like he's had that much time on the pitch either. At the end of the day, he's here on loan... if he helps the team, great; if not, then it didn't work out – end of. I doubt his wages are very much as it is. I'm not really sure what people are moaning about. Loans either work or they don't – we can hardly tell either way 7 games into the season!

Our season start has been shite and having our best players injured has obviously been a big part of that. If you look at the injury table, I think we're second behind Man Utd for having the most first teamers out, 8 to their 9 or something like that. No matter how big a squad, no team can keep up the same quality on the park if they have 8 senior players out. Imagine Chelsea without the likes of Costa, Fabregas, Hazzard and Ivanovic... or Man City without the likes of Silva, Kompany, Aguero and Toure – then DOUBLE that! Then you get to the same relative impact for us.

Hopefully the remaining walking can get a win against Aston Villa this weekend and we'll start to get some players back like Coleman, McCarthy and Barkley.

People writing off the season after 7 games must be about 15 years old, I'm guessing. Let's try to keep some perspective and wait until at least Xmas to see how the season is really going. Not looking too good at the minute but it's very early doors.

We would be better off giving our young lads a chance unless they are utter shite. I don't think that's the case with the likes of Garbutt and Long in our junior ranks.

Maybe the injury plight has come too early for these players to be expected to slot in but I personally don’t buy it, not when they are getting big wages. Good players, when given an opportunity, should get out there and perform with determination – we have seen very little of that from Atsu.

Loan players are for clubs who can't afford to buy a lot of players, aka Everton. So they help to make up the numbers.

"At the end of the day, he's here on loan. If he helps the team, great; if not, then it didn't work out – end of."

We can't afford that. We don't have some huge squad that can afford such a laissez faire attitude. We have a small squad that is already down to the bare bones.

He hasn't helped the team. According to RM, he isn't going to help the team until next year... if at all. In the meantime, we are trying to compete in the Premier League and Europa League, up to our neck injuries, while a fit young international player isn't "ready" yet. It's not good enough.

I don't really mean the signing of a Routledge or Dyer or Bolasie to be greatly inspired, I was merely suggesting that they'd have made a damn better fist of being a winger and getting the odd cross, or goal than McGeady, and the clearly lacking, at least right now Atsu.

There's not a massive abundance of great affordable wingers out there but I'm sure, with the money we had, we could have mustered something up.

We can say that those three mentioned lads aren't what's required to push you on to get Champions League football; maybe so... but, then again, the signings of McGeady and a lone deal for a player clearly not up to it or ready haven't exactly been the kind of signings they are making that top 4 closer either.

I felt a bit sorry for him in his last game when he was obviously bogged down by a heap of complicated instructions and was not sure what to do. He needs to be let off the leash and free to do his own thing.

Unfortunately it will never happen. Tactics rule the roost and everyone has a specific role to play. I can't see him being here next season but, if he wears our shirt, I'll support him.

I honestly don't know what the club, fans, players or management team gain from in-depth comments on time-scales etc. If a player is injured, all we need to know is when that player is likely to be ready for selection and nothing more.

Atsu may be required for duty in the coming weeks depending on injuries so why let the player know that he is not ready to compete in the Premier League? It might be correct but it won't do much for his confidence if he is required to perform.

I think I might need to see more of Atsu before even I agree to that one 100 percent.

Moses on the other hand was up for loan, has played under Martinez before and has three or four years experience in the BPL. Just would have made more sense in my opinion.

In the case of McGeady, he isn't really better or worse than Dyer, Routledge and Bolasie. But he has got some pedigree and was lauded by the likes of Messi and Joachin Loew ahead of their international fixture.

He cost Spartak Moscow 㾷M and we got him for as little as 𧺬k with being in the final year of his contract. Isn't that the speculative and value-for-money sort of signing you'd like us to go for without the aid of a time machine?!

I don't think we have any youngsters at the club who are close to Atsu's level, sadly. Matt Kennedy may be the closest and he is struggling to get a game at Hibs right now in Scotland's Second Division, whereas Atsu was a crucial player for Vitesse last season.

It's early days still for Atsu and I reckon he is certainly as capable, if not more so, than McGeady who has had a season now to adjust and is still looking highly inconsistent.

I still wish we had bought Nathan Redmond last year for ٠M. He looks like better to me than Atsu or McGeady.

Players need a run of games in their correct position to be judged properly. He's never played at Premier League level before, give him a chance. He could grow to be a top player and we'd have a great chance of getting him. Then it looks like a shrewd move.

McGeady gets a bad rap as well. His fee was negligent and he's third choice behind Pienaar and Mirallas. Likewise, Alcaraz is fourth choice. They're playing because of injuries. If you want Martinez to waste money on squad fillers, then go ahead.

McCarthy, Barry, and Lukaku – the three first team players – have all been a success in different ways.

Loan signings have less risk as you can give the player back. Obviously, on the flip side, if the player is great or already the finished article, then the parent club don’t generally gift him to another club!

Delboy, Lukaku and Barry were all on loan last season and all contributed. It doesn’t obviously always work out that way however. Barely 7 games into the season is hardly the time to write any player off.

As for Atsu, he was never going to be a first team regular from the off and we signed him to beef up the squad, which he has. Give the guy a chance at least; if we didn’t have all the injuries, he’d be on the bench and this thread wouldn’t even exist.

It's one thing acquiring mediocrity but, when mediocrity is played out of position, it becomes shite.

Gambling with unknowns may seem brave but I'd rather be gambling with the kids who've come through our much vaunted academy. Trouble is, agents and their 'contacts' make nothing out of that policy.

McGeady is simply poor. I've yet to be convinced by Atsu in the glimpses I have seen of him. There is no comparison to what we have had in previous seasons – Pienaar (his first spell) and Mirallas. Why do we have to potentially wait half a season before we see a player play to his full potential? This probably doesn't happen at any other club. Only at Everton!

But I wonder if I missed all those world class players we have had on our books this last 15 years as there doesn't seem to be a player on our books who is half-decent or worthy of the shirt. It seems that, until they are injured or leave the club, most modern day Everton players are to be criticised as often as possible, imagine what we would be like if we had spent 𧶀m in the Summer window and we were not top of the table at this juncture.

If he's not ready, send him back, tell Chelsea to get him up to speed and THEN we'll loan him!

I guess Chelsea just don't have locker room space for him so they sent him to us to get him trained up for next year.

He's got World Cup experience, how can he not be ready? So he takes a few knocks, thinks "bugger, that hurt. Not going to let that happen again" and next time he goes in a bit more determined than before... isn't that the way it goes?

Maybe we should loan him out to a lower league club and see if he can hack it there! ;-) Or maybe to a pub team to get clogged by some fat drunk geezer (how many of you thought I was talking about you?!) and see if he comes back ready.

I don't want to knock a player who has hardly had a chance, but let's not be making excuses for him so soon.... the superficial positivity spin from RM is starting to grate, I've reached the point of taking anything he says with a pinch of salt (or two)

Oh yes RM's sound bites are really starting to grind and I don't listen to them anymore. Thank God for TW to cheer me up. When some TWS don't have a point or cant add any reason to a to a thread . this happens. BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL I INVOKE HARVEY....KENADALL AND BALL. Fantastic, boys keep it up.

How can any one of us say a signing has been successful or not 7 games into the season? It's just ridiculous.

Secondly, and I'll quote you: "Our finances dictate we take 'punts'. Often it will be wrong; getting it right is what keeps us afloat. For all his faults, our former manager did brilliantly in that respect."

I think you've got some rose-tinted specs on there. Moyes made some great signings but also made his fair share of duff ones, especially when he had money. Over 11 years, I would hope that any manager would make some good signings! Even the law of averages would give you some. For every Arteta & Cahill there was a Bilyaletdinov & Krøldrup (who strangely went on to have 6 successful seasons at Fiorentina and played CL football with them, as well as getting 33 caps for Denmark... make of that what you will).

Judging Martinez's signings on 1 season and 2 months is a waste of time and hardly fair. McCarthy and Lukaku are both good signings, both are young, will improve and will have sell-on value. We've simply been unlucky with Kone, the rest were bought for relatively little money or were signed on a free – and yet people cannot resist the urge to moan, we haven't even had a game and it's still moan moan moan.

I am not saying it's all rosy and I too questioned the sense in giving Barry a 3-year contract and Hibbo and Osman extensions. However, only time will tell if they were worth it but it's far too soon to judge.

If the same scout had watched the same player at the World Cup and a few games last season at Vitesse, would he advocate a loan deal?

I think that's all people are saying. It's not 'moan moan moan'... it's valid concern for the poor performances which have put us where we are going in to Saturday's game — 17th in the Premier League, most goals conceded, out of the League Cup.

By all means criticise the player for playing shit but at least let him play a few times before writing him off completely. I wanted Naismith gone last year but am happy to now eat humble pie given the goals he's since scored.

Added to that, when talking about Atsu and McGeady, we also have to keep in mind that they didn't cost us much. We've taken punts on both and time will tell if they come off or not. They're both squad players at the end of the day and won't be starting too many games if most of the players were fit.

Hopefully results will improve soon, then the general tone of the site will no doubt also improve.

We could really do with a win against Villa!

I come back to my original point, what is the use of a loan player that isn't ready to play for you? You take players on loan that can fill a need right now. It's like a TV dinner, you get it out the freezer to use it because it fits your immediate need, not because your missus MIGHT leave you without dinner in six months time! Of course the TV dinner needs to be paid for only once, the loan you pay for monthly whether you use it or not!

And once again, this is NOT a pop at Atsu who I reserve judgement on for the moment...

I agree, Long should have at least been on the bench for some league games.

As for Astu, you say he has played 7 times for Everton... how many minutes has he been on the pitch?

Despite your opinion of Atsu (one based off brief glimpses of the player so far), he has played first team football abroad, been capped by his country and gave a good account of himself in a World Cup. Any manager assessing the available evidence would determine that Atsu is much further along in his development than a couple of kids who have only ever played at youth level before now.

Also, they don't even play in the same fucking position. If Martinez thought he was short on wide players during the summer then neither Long or Ledson were going to help fill that gap, were they?

Well he was either ready or he wasnÂ’t but given that heÂ’s off to the ACN weÂ’re not going to be seeing that much of him considering weÂ’ve only got him for a season-long loan. If he was a permanent deal, IÂ’d say yes, okay, give him time. But time is the one thing he hasnÂ’t got.