Osman joins '400 club' in style

Everton to me were drawn into West Ham’s type of football with retaliation tactics and although Hibbert did not really have a stinker, the majority of West Ham’s attacks came down their right-hand side and we had no attacks down our left-hand side.

Hopefully Baines will be okay for Thursday as I am sure Wolfsburg will have had a couple of people watching the game.

Defence still makes me nervous though every time the ball goes anywhere near them. Sooner Stones is back, the better. Bring on Spurs!

Lots of injuries at the moment which is not a good position to be in with some important matches coming up. Martinez really does need to introduce more pace and accuracy into our play and dare I say it directness.

Any team at the moment seems comfortable playing us as we are very one-dimensional and Martinez is as stubborn as Moyes with regards not adding a bit of variety.

Overall it was a tough game and am glad we managed to get over the line with the 3 points. Hibbo was solid at leftback but I’d still have given Garbutt the nod.

Barkley really didn’t contribute anything, he started off okay and looked to get into the game at the start but then drifted out of the game badly – and that dive was just embarrassing and disappointing to see. Not sure what the answer is but if Man City offered £60m for him I’d bite their hand off.

Great to get 3 points, not great to see Naismith injured, hope it’s not a long one...

I’m still worried by our lack of good performance levels, we never really shone today infact at times we looked like we were closer to losing than winning especially at 1-1.

Barkley, ok was out of position but he can really infuriate.
Has a long long way to go.

Nevertheless a hard earned win, see the same old injury culprits Gibson and Pienaar fail to make the squad again eh?

Great win, Everton; over to you Tony Bellow to round off a great Saturday.

All things considered we coped well against a very determined and physical West Ham side. In a few past matches we have struggled against direct tactics. A lot was made of West Ham having injuries but absolutely no mention of ours.

We were missing Baines, Barry, Oviedo, Gibson, McGeady, Pienaar and the invisible man Kone. Also Mirallas was off the pace and now we have lost Naismith by the looks of it.

I reckon Osman played very well and he ran half the length of the pitch to convert Etoo’s slide rule pass. Great goal on his 400th appearance, keeps us in touch until we get a few back.

A good result against a team in form, and good to see us scrap toe-to-toe with the odious trio of Nolan, Tomkins and Collins, and come away with 3 points.

I thought Ossie was MotM but was ran close by Jimmy Mac who played his usual great performance, £13 million was worth every penny for this lad.

Barry is the glue of our team so it was no surprise we looked disjointed at times, obviously not having Baines or Pienaar down the left also didn’t do us any favours.

I think Barkley is suffering a loss of confidence at the moment which is not helped by that pleb Hodgson openly berating him in midweek, Wilshere in the same game gave the ball away on numerous occasions against Scotland, he’s a cockney though who delivered a decent ball for England’s first goal so is now a world beater... Pisses me off. If you don’t fancy the lad, Woy, then don’t pick him. I personally couldn’t give a toss about England.

Anyway 3 massive points and next up Wolfsburg, I’d take a point now if offered. COYB.

Ossie is a good player

That’s seven without a defeat gentlemen, lets make it eight against Wolfsburg. I reckon when we have a full squad available (if ever), we will be back up challenging the so-called big teams.

Bloody Arsenal managed to lose 2-1 against a team that only managed one shot on target!

We can certainly beat Spurs and Hull, and recommence our winning run at the Etihad.

COYB

ps: Nice game-winning sub by Roberto.

Generally Hibbert is a safer option but today would’ve been a nice game to try Garbutt out. They started with Tompkins and Jenkinson down that side so no real attacking threat.

Hindsight, I suppose... I think they were setting up to combat our trademark left-sided penetrations – to be fair, they limited Tony Hibbert to one shot.

We were run ragged down that side during the match. Hibbert, whilst he looked over-run at times, managed to remain composed and probably did better than some of us give him credit for. If Garbutt had played, they would’ve targeted him as the weak link and we could have a new hate figure on these pages.

It’s a cliche, but RM sees them in training and he’ll know whether the lad’s ready or not. He’s definitely a prospect though, and I’m sure he’ll earn his chance in due course.

Tony "Where dya need me, boss?" Hibbert. A consummate professional, who was written off after an injury-ravaged season, has been called upon several times now and let nobody down.

As for Ossie? Scored and created more than Barry and McCarthy have managed between them all season.

Ossie and Hibbo – have Everton EVER had two players who have qualified and played in Europe more, or accumulated more Premier League points?

Not bad for two "Championship" players...

My view is Nolan looked like he was coming in like a train on Ross and he went to ground to protect himself – there were no histrionics, he got up as quickly as he went down.

There are so many double standards in football – no one questions Steven Gerrard over his self-styled signature "dive for cover" which has won LFC countless free-kicks on the edge of the D, or scores of players who "draw" fouls to win dubious penalties.

Ross might be feeling a bit embarrassed, but I don’t think he should be – he’s suffered bad injuries and I think he thought "here comes another....", I don’t think there was anything malicious in it and it was in a pretty neutral part of the park.

The person who should feel embarrassed is Kevin Nolan for his completely over the top reaction, and let’s not even start on Tomkins.

Totally agree Darren,I think Hibbo and Ossie would die for the cause, epitomised by Ossie’s brilliant reaction after he scored. I can’t understand the criticism on here for two total stalwarts.

Too many of the others – and I include top performers like Naismith and McCarthy in this – are too conservative in possession, always going backwards as soon as they are under pressure. Osman will lose the ball at times but he also creates those forward passes which lead to advanced positions and goals.

He’s not a 38-game-a-season, 90-minute starter any more, but can he come in and do a job at home against a stubborn defense when Barkley and Mirallas can barely trap a ball? Absolutely. We will also see a far better Everton when Pienaar returns.

I hope that Garbutt gets his chance as the lad is very much like Baines. He is really good going forward and combines well in the England team with the winger. He has a great left foot (like Baines) and has bags of pace. But he is not yet as good defensively and has not been tested against physical teams. In hindsight, it made sense for Hibbert to play.

I also agree with the comments on Pienaar. Baines absolutely blossoms when Pienaar plays and we are a real threat when those two are together.

It also gives Coleman more chance to attack down the right providing us with a double pronged front. Mirallas was obviously ring rusty and will soon be back to his best and will supplement our goal haul.

We need to win battles like this. COYB

I thought MotD did a poor job, forgot to show the goal which was disallowed. I would have liked to see a replay on if Lukaku was offside. Also, the card for the pushing that McCarthy got, no free kick was given. Players need to keep clam when pushed and keep hands down, Kev was a lucky man.

Barkley on the left? Really come on, he is a centre mid, we should have two wingers and play Barkley in the middle.

Overall, an okay performance, West Ham starting with 5 at the back allowed us to come onto them but, once we scored, the game opened up and I thought we looked better. The top of the league is looking so tight, and if we thought we had a chance last season to make top 4, this season is even better.

COYB

The lad made a silly mistake, which he won’t be repeating in the near future, so let’s get behind him and hope he starts getting into his stride ASAP.

That isn’t to say that he shouldn’t be chastised by Roberto and his staff, but I love the way certain PL players at certain PL clubs are allowed to do all and sundry and be praised for being professional or a good team player. Don’t do it again, Ross, we are a club that still has some idea of fairness.

On another note, where are all those posters who were telling anyone who would listen that Brenda was some sort of genius? He won’t be there in the New Year, more’s the pity.

Never felt more like singing the Blues,

When Everton win and Liverpool lose…

Oh Everton, you got me singing the Blues!

Big game against Spurs next Sunday, but they are beatable. RM should probably rest key players against Wolfsburg, and let’s hope Baines is fit.

"Osman has been stealing a living from Everton for a decade. I have played with and against better players at amateur level. How he has lasted so long at a Premier League club, I will never know.

I don’t think I have seen a worse footballer play so long in the Premier League. Robbie Savage was shite but he could make a tackle and got stuck in. Danny Murphy was garbage but he would score a few vital goals each season. Osman’s only quality Premier League attribute is his first touch but he flatters to deceive far too often because usually his second touch makes his first touch redundant.

The lad can’t or won’t tackle, runs like he’s running in treacle, and has no skill to beat a man. He isn’t the best at putting a cross in, can’t head a ball, has no engine, gets brushed aside too easily, but usually can’t even keep up with the play to attempt to challenge or close down the opposition.

His shooting is pathetic and far too many times has wasted excellent build-up play from the rest of the team with his inaccurate powder-puff shooting. Most of the time, he is non existent and makes it seem like we are playing with 10 men. He’s not even the type of player like Hibbert who you think is shite but gives it 100%; his lack of effort or running around is an insult to all Evertonians.

Taking all that into account, why would anyone in their right mind think he was good enough to play for a Premier League club? He’s the type of player who would be good in five-a-side team but on a big muddy pitch is far too ineffective. The sooner he retires, the better."

To be honest I think we’ll get a pasting at Wolfsburg mate, the fact is we are going to have a threadbare team out probably and knowing that a point against Krasnodar puts us through will possibly mean eye off the ball in Germany slightly.

Our away form in general is patchy, the Spurs game is tough because they have lost their last FOUR at White Hart Lane so will be eager not to let that happen again.

That comment you quoted - it sounds like someone who has never watched an Everton game for the last 10 years and just likes to post a TW cliche for whatever reason... even if he wasn’t on the pitch "Ossie was shite today".

We all have our views and can form opinions on football matters. Moyes and Martinez make errors like all managers, but they know a damn sight more about football and footballers than anybody posting on TW.

Leon is a great example to all the kids out there, that aren’t blessed with outstanding natural ability (about 99.99%), of how much you can achieve with hard work, dedication and perseverance.

Shit, don’t know why I even bother!

Lucky Leon’s been doing that for all this time, despite his inability to walk, run, head, shoot, cross, pass, etc.... good work if ya can get it!

I could understand it if he played about half-a-dozen games every season and had a poor attitude like some players in the past but he’s an honest, solid pro and doesn’t deserve this stick.

Some of us recognize that Osman is not a great player. That didn’t stop him from putting in a great display on his 400th senior appearance yesterday. And many Evertonians who have been less than impressed with his abilities (me included) were quick to recognize his contribution. But that performance, good as it was, didn’t magically improve the vast majority of the previous 399 — far too many of which more closely fit Ian’s scything description of his limitations, as manifested so often on the pitch.

There may be one or two who are attacking players with bile; but most of us are providing fair and balanced assessments of what we see. However, I very much doubt that many, who can see for themselves what’s good and what’s not, will have their views changed by someone accusing them of having an agenda or needing a scapegoat. Most people are just calling it as they see it, be it Howard or Osman or Distin or Barkley...

The fact that some players attract more critique than others, and that the focus changes depending on their performances, shouldn’t come as a surprise. It’s just Evertonians exercising their critical faculties. They’re not going to change on your say-so.

I would also point out that I have no problem with ’fair and balanced opinions’ but is that how you would describe the post I copied? To me it is utterly ridiculous, and to describe it as ’scything’ gives it credence it does not deserve.

To think that a player can get picked 400 times for Everton when the ’vast majority’ of his performances somehow relate to the description provided by Ian Tunstead’s is quite frankly delusional.

For me it is no coincidence that the last four times Ossie has started we have won. He is not as good a defensive player as either Barry or McCarthy, he doesn’t possess the occasional brilliance of Barkley, he’s not as good a finisher as Naismith, he can’t beat players as well as McGeady but he has an instinctive football brain, he can pick a pass and he gives the team a greater tempo.

Oh and he belts out a pretty good tune.

Now I know everybody has a right to criticise players, managers and team performances, and I do my fair share; what I refuse to accept is the OTT comments directed at our local lads (Ossie, Hibbo and now Barkley). These are the lifeblood of any team and without them we would lose any sense of identification with our club.

Seamus misplaced several passes yesterday and not a peep. Mirallas was invisible for large parts of the game and nowt. Eto’o missed a sitter but apparently he can do no wrong. I love these players and to err is human; what I won’t do is call them all the names under the sun and then hide when they do what we all know they are capable of.

As long as they wear the shirt with pride and put in a shift they will have my support.

The bottom line is Ian’s views are so extreme even a blind man can see they are wrong. You can build whatever case you want for Ossie’s qualities or lack or them, we are always going to be divided; but what I do know is 36,000 people on Saturday rose from their seats and gave that man a hand, and no-one I sat near, or spoke to after the game wished he wasn’t playing.

What I noticed and surprised me when I first started reading TW a few years ago was the bile directed at him. At first I questioned my own perception of him in games so I started watching him more closely in games and also again in recordings of the same games. What struck me and still does is that he makes his first error in a game and there are some immediately on his back on the Live Forum while others make more than one error and not a dicky bird. And in reverse, others on TW laud the first good touches from other players but never a dicky bird about Osman, or "one game doesn’t make him good". And I will go so far as to say all that appears dishonest.

What is not now surprising (but hilarious) is that I can (but won’t) list the names of those with this selective tendency (as I see it, IMHO, using my own critical faculties, etc).

Osman is no world-beater, but he is a good Premier League footballer. He was played out of position for much of his career, and many of the ill-advised critiques directed his way ignored that. Many better players have suffered from being played out of position (Modric, Ramsey, Mata etc), and I think Osman’s career would have been a better one if he had had the opportunity to play centrally consistently.

He is now a decent squad player for us, and has offered much more than Atsu, who received high/surprising levels of praise before kicking a ball in an Everton shirt, and none since. I congratulate him on his milestone, and I for one think he has been a very good servant for this club. He is not a top four player, but he is a very good Premier League player, and is still an essential squad ingredient as goals in recent weeks have illustrated.

It clearly won’t work against all teams, especially those with robust/tough midfielders we have to battle, but as an option where Leon can come in and add a little finesse and incisive passing from deep to Macca’s steel and effort then maybe there is something there. We would need to see it work a couple more times first though obviously.

What I really hope this doesn’t do is provide Martinez a vindication for playing Osman in the side regardless of the position. When pushed further forward or on the flanks (and generally when in the same team as the similarly high quality but less mobile Barry) he has been on a scale from abject to invisible for MANY, MANY months.

I’m not saying other players have excelled or should escape criticism, but the likes of McGeady, Alcaraz, Distin, Barkley and Naismith (heck even Hibbert) have all had a fair few good games to balance the lacklustre ones. The only other player who’s looked as routinely ineffectual up to now was Atsu.

Anyway, like I said, I would be genuinely happy if this deeper-lying role brings the best out of Leon and allows him to make a meaningful contribution and I’d love to see him alternated/subbed in for Barry a few more times to check that out. He’ll get a little extra space and time to pick a pass (that just isn’t there closer to the box when we often see Ossie being bundled out or closed down) and he could be just what we need to vary the slow-paced sideways build up that seems to be the main trade of our current centre backs + defensive mids when we gain possession.

On a broadly related note, do we know when our walking wounded will be back? By my reckoning there’s at least 10 on the treatment table and we really could do with Baines, Pienaar, Oviedo, Stones, Barry, McGeady and Naismith back in contention. It wouldn’t be terrible to see Alcaraz and Gibson on the bench either, although I’ve long since given up on the hopes of ever seeing Kone play in a royal blue jersey again (not that he’d be pushing Lukaku and Eto’o out of the team mind even if he were fit).

Osman not quick enough? Yes, not Strong enough? Yes. Not clever enough? Never. Great little footballer with one of the best first touches in the whole Premier League.

I remember a spell where Leon got about 7 MotMs out of 8 when Moyes gave him a run in behind the striker when Cahill was injured.

I actually wanted him to be replaced by Besic, early in the second half, when we couldn’t get close enough to West Ham. But when the sub finally came on, Eto’o looked like he only wanted to play with one man: Osman – the clever little footballer.

From where I was sitting, he wasn’t playing a deeper lying role, he was playing the centre of a diamond with McCarthy holding, Naismith advanced and Mirallas and Barkley wide.

And If you are looking for robust / tough midfielders West Ham were playing that yard dog Nolan.

You are obviously of the opinion that he is a poor player who doesn’t deserve his place; that’s fine... however, I don’t think Roberto is going to need vindication to play him, he’s been doing that routinely since he came here.

Since the team has started to play football, I reckon Osman has had a much more positive impact. Coming off the bench, he has changed games on occasion and he is the one player who can produce really incisive passes from deep.

The role he played against West ham suited him as he had more space and used it intelligently. If some fans here cannot appreciate that then so be it!

David Moyes and Roberto Martinez disagreed with Osman’s detractors on 400 occasions. The England manager on 2 occasions.

You can’t play 400 games in the most competitive league in Europe without having ability.

The fact that the ultra-skilful Eto’o later missed from close range when Ossie fired a brisk pass at him just shows how deceptively hard it is to get yourself in the right position and sort out your feet in those situations. Admittedly, the two were closer together for Sammy Boy’s chance, but the pass wasn’t hit as hard so it almost evens out.

Ossie is a decent pro who’s filled in when needed and tended to be played out of position a lot as he didn’t really have the quality to make the CM position his own (e.g. when we had the likes of Graveson, Arteta, Cahill). Playing out of position no doubt meant he quite often gave a performance that was a bit shite, which probably leads to people’s perception of him being a bit shit - he never was and never will be a winger and regularly struggled playing out wide.

On the other hand he also wasn’t good enough to regularly dictate games from the middle. He’s generally been a solid member of the squad but I always thought just lacked that little bit to be a top player (be it strength, speed, height, power etc). (I cannot recall a single transfer rumour of any other club wanting to buy him off us since he’s been playing....)

He had a great game in the middle over the weekend but he has been pretty average (being kind here) on a number of occasions before. The post by Ian is obviously over the top but as Michael K says, the one performance against West Ham is not suddenly going to erase all those crap performances from before. To be fair though he’s also given a few decent performances over the years and scored some important goals, it hasn’t all been bad.

Imo he’s been a very useful member of the squad but had we had more money and a more attack minded manager over the last dozen odd years, I think he would have found it hard to make so many appearances. Again, just my opinion.

Ossies’ 400 appearances at least show him as a being a top pro ready to help out when needed and obviously he’s had the trust of the manager. He’s been a very good servant to the club but is not going to get near legend status despite his many appearances - unless he carries on playing like that for the rest of the season!

And please, please never compare a true blue Evertonian like Ossie to that Mancunian sewer rat Neville who, even though captain of our team, didn’t know the basic history of EFC and couldn’t wait to scurry back to his Mancunian homeland.

Now that might appear a dumb question, so I’ll explain it.

The only time I see Ian post is when he comes on to vigorously defend Davey Moyes. You have to ask yourself the obvious question. How can a manager as shrewd as Davey Moyes be gormless enough to allow a player to steal a living under his nose... about 350 times?

If Ian’s claim that Ossie has been stealing a living is a valid one then his Ginger hero is either an even bigger thief... or he ’s a fucking idiot!