Martinez not interested in the blame game

Either the wrong questions are being asked of the manager or he is good at dodging them.

The team that started against a rubbish Spurs team was a strong one, Spurs were poor, and we lost. Ditto Hull game.

Roberto may be doing some things wrong but the collective team deserve all the blame. They have been lack-lustre to say the least... I doubt that was part of their pre-game instructions.

Just a thought.

The players don't deserve the criticism, the manager and coaching staff do for the style of play. We don't have the players that can play short passes out of defence and they're easily caught out under pressure, but we do have fast forwards who can run with the ball at their feet and are good scorers, suggesting a counter attacking style would suit us much better; the way in which we played against Wolfsburg clearly showed that.

Not good, that. Most worrying thing I've read from him.

He's partly right that creativity can come from players being relaxed and comfortable, but I think there must be a balance. Last season was a combination of letting players of their leash, and Moyes' technical discipline which had been instilled in the team. Now that one half has worn off we're seeing the least creative football in years and you need to ask why.

The players are under enough pressure. The last thing they need is fear. Fear + pressure = panic!

No, the way RM teaches is fine, it’s WHAT he teaches I’m starting to question a bit.

Don’t know what you do for a job, mate. Would you respond better to being encouraged by your boss or by being frightened to try anything.

I have to mention (again) substitutions. Something that seemed like a clear strength of Martinez last season has become a definite weakness. I'm convinced we are the only team that doesn't make three substitutions in every game (I haven't checked the stats on this but I know we often only make two, and they are often later than our opponents make them). This is in a season when we finally DO have people on the bench who can come on and affect the game.

Bringing someone on with ten minutes to go and expecting them to change the game, as he did with McGeady on Wednesday, is not a plan, it's a desperate roll of the dice. If you want players to have a serious chance of affecting the outcome, they need at least twenty minutes, preferably more. Also, we're at home, only drawing a game we expect to win, and Samuel Eto'o is sitting on our bench. Martinez must be the only person in the world who wouldn't have found a way of bringing him on.

If he's not going to come on in that situation, then there is absolutely no point having him on the bench. It would be more use to select McAleny or Chris Long just for the experience of sitting on the first team bench than to kit Eto'o up and just leave him there.

I would start ranting about corners and set pieces now, but I think we all feel the same about those anyway.

Barkley under Moyes compared with Barkley under Martinez is a clear demonstration of a Growth Mindset, not a fixed one, which is what most of our posters seem to have.

He is also someone whose view IÂ’d be particularly interested in, given the differences in style between his sides and RobertoÂ’s.

Yes, Ossie has got good technical ability but I still feel he struggles to come to terms with the concept of Martinez's passing and moving style of play. If you notice, it's those three, more so than any of the others, that make the most mistakes when in possession?!

But let's not kid ourselves: it's not going to take a season and a bit to transform the way some of these players play. Yes, we did brilliantly last season and played some good stuff, but we're still a work in progress and we're having a bad time of it performance-wise. I still don't think we've recovered from the Arsenal set back and Chelsea thrashing. In both them games we played some of the best football of our season so far at times and since then we've not hit those heights imo.

And I agree also that he doesn't have a Plan B or C. He has one plan and that is to dominate the ball and keep playing no matter what throughout the 90.

But I also agree with Martinez that it's not a good thing to come out and single out players for poor performances; for me, it wouldn't hurt just to say we didn't play well, we didn't perform to expectations and that isn't good enough for Everton FC. Sometimes imo you've got to let the players know they've not played well and dropped standards, and in the dressing room, I'm sure he does tell them individually or as an whole in his own way.

At least Martinez is true to his word, that if he thinks someone or some players aren't pulling there weight in games then he will say so and do something about it, just look at Distin after his performance at Swansea in the League Cup, he didn't name names but he said after that certain individuals had let the team down and not performed to the standards he and the club sets and Distin was dropped!

For me, Martinez is still the right man for us and we are a work in progress with him and it'll probably still be a couple of years before we start playing the way he wants in a more comfortable manner. He will be given the time to gradually bring in his types of player to suit his systems and the style of play he's trying to implicate at the club and we have to be patient with that, cos as we all know, with our finances it's not gonna drastically change over night.

Also Martinez, like Moyes before him, is too loyal to players who are under-performing. ThereÂ’s not a prayer Baines should have walked back in the side against Spurs, heÂ’s been awful all season, his defending has been poor and his dead balls... well, letÂ’s not go there.

Barry and Howard also – the way he was beaten for Aluko’s goal was laughable. Osman was stinking the yard out the other night so he leaves him on and brings Mirallas off.

Also, this bigging up of players is quite tedious. Let’s take McGeady – he doesn’t do anything wrong but doesn’t contribute anything either, yet Martinez sees this dynamic winger who ghosts past players with ease and sets all sorts of chances up... Obviously not the truth but he sees things most fans don’t or thinks he does.

We know whatÂ’ll happen today; Man City will be quite happy to let us have the ball and then pick us off quite easily.

When you're on the ball, look for a man in space to pass it to. When you're not on the ball, look for the space and angle to receive the ball. It's the absolute basics of football.

We generally retain the ball well. It's up to boys like Barkley, Pienaar, McCarthy, Osman, etc to be more incisive. The only players in our team who are doing it well in advanced areas are Eto'o, Baines and Naismith. It's not always obvious as as they are often let down by team mates.

Roberto sends them out to keep the ball, keep a clean sheet, create chances, convert a couple.

I know it can be frustrating but is it any worse than when the ball broke to Hibbert, Neville, Jagielka back in the day and the crowd were groaning in anticipation of the inevitable hoof?

Football can be played so many different ways, and I'm not shitting on anyone's opinion – I just favour a good passing game. The manager and players both need to adapt better in games though.

I'm still confident we will come good, though it may be another few weeks/months (this season becoming a write-off in the league).

I'll settle for Europa League!

For whatever reason, we have been, well just short of being 'total shite' altogether. Like I mentioned some games ago on one of Lyndon's match reports, we totally seem to lack that 'killer instinct' and while it is unforgiveable, could be tolerated (just) if it was a one-off.

Trouble is, it seems to becoming a pattern recently, we start out of the blocks with some good interplay, get a goal, then sit back, with seemingly the job done attitude, then get hit by the opposition, who are allowed too much possession and space. I hope today sees a different approach against Man City, otherwise we will be humiliated again on TV.

COYB

Last season, Coleman and Baines were breaking into the box on a regular basis, causing panic in the defenders and creating and scoring goals. This season, they are forever turning near their opponent’s area and passing back which is criminal. I don’t know anyone who wants to watch Jagielka and Distin playing along the back in a way you know they are either going to slip up and lose the ball or more likely give it away.

Roberto takes the more difficult but more professional approach – publicly remaining positive – but I am sure behind the scenes there is always a thorough, constructive analysis of any shortcomings.

We will surprise many "experts" tomorrow. 3 points is not out of the question.

On paper, the team against Spurs was good enough to win. Look a little closer and you see four outfield players not 100% match fit (five if you include McCarthy) and two players in Eto'o and Barkley playing, neither of whom is effective out wide, getting in each other's way and not giving the full-back any cover.

Fast forward three days to Hull and we play almost the same team, including many unfit players, and – surprise, surprise – we put in another shit performance and don't win and the manager is going on about tired players.

We have other players who are not coming back from injury and are fit and they are being overlooked for players just coming back from injury. The last 70 minutes against Spurs was a shocking performance and yet we play almost the same side 3 days later... what's that about? Either too many players who are not match fit and starting or they are fit but out of form BUT STILL STARTING. Sorry but the last two shit performances are purely down to the manager and his team selection and tactics.

I still think he's a good manager but he needs to start learning from his mistakes fast. This afternoon is going to be interesting.

To be honest, all our opinions are good ones and BS at the same time. We, like Roberto, are vindicated in our preferences one week and wide of the mark the next.

It's actually baffling – we start off the season looking like we could score 4 or 5 every game and leaking silly goals. Then the defence tightens up and we look clueless going forward. Then we start leaking the silly goals again and still look clueless.

Maybe it's a confidence thing. There wasn't a single game last season where I didn't think we could get a win... Now I worry about home games against WHU, Villa and Hull!

How much have we missed Naismith last few games?! I wouldn't want to heap too much pressure on Barkley but his ability needs to start shining through (and it will).

I'd like to see Pienaar tried centrally against Krasnodar if fit. I know he's got great understanding with Bainesy but he doesn't have the legs for the wide role, but he can still turn a man, link up and pick a killer pass.

Fans have to be patient, we'll have a good 2nd half of season. IMWT

The performances against Lille and Krasnodar away were awful and we were lucky they were such poor sides. Wolfsburg away could have been any score, but credit where credit is due for the home wins.

My point is that, based on the evidence of this season, do I think if we came up against a side in the knockouts who were of the quality of some of Moyes's famous losses – Benfica, Villarreal, Sporting Lisbon, Fiorentina – do I think we would win? No. Because when the crunch comes this group of players choke as we saw last season.

It's all well and good beating the dross or bullying Arsenal at home but, once again, there was failure in the League Cup, lack of belief in an FA Cup tie we could have won, no derby victory despite one being on a plate, and no away win at a top 6 side. This was all masked over by nicking a win at the candy shop that was Old Trafford under Moyes.

Martinez has the same problem Moyes did. A group of players who don't take responsibility for their own results and aren't natural winners. They cling to the manager during times of failure then let him down when they have to perform for success. Weak-willed, weak-minded and second-rate attitudes.

Mick, I would put my money on us going out of the Europa League against the first 'big' team we play, regardless of how good they are.

I was at Benfica and Sporting Lisbon, Benfica were awesome and we had half a team out, but Sporting away was an embarrassment, they just passed the ball around us because Moyes had no idea how to develop passing or harrying skills in his players. Would never have happened under Martinez.

Anyway, time will tell... Roberto and the players are massively up for the Europa League. Imagine we won that and stopped the RS or Man Utd in 4th qualifying for the Champions League.

And on form with everyone fit, they aren't 4 better teams than us in the Prem.

Quality post; hats off. Perhaps the Club as a whole has a losing mentality, a lack of belief that causes them to choke at the critical moment. It's as if they can't quite believe that they deserve to win a trophy, game, whatever.

Everton's trophy-winning sides always contained players who just didn't give a toss who the opposition were – Ferguson, Gray, Reid, Ball, Gabriel, Vernon et al. That's who we need right now: players who just think, "Fuck you, I play for Everton".

Wasn’t the Benfica game the one where Moyes gave Coleman his debut, at left back?

We need hungry nasty bastards in our team. A hungry nasty bastard as a manger but I suppose that's no use if you have a greedy sod at the top.

As you say, our luvvy duvvy chairman has created a warm, cuddly, butter won't melt in our mouth mentality at the club. We need to put the fear of god into any bastard who stands on our hallowed pitch, that includes the texting, selfie-taking obsessed crowd. Our attitude has to be "let's fucking batter this shower", not "let's make this an unforgettable experience for our visitors".

It was Moyes’s team, apparently.

If Roberto actually manages the way I quoted above, ticka-tocka footy is the least of our problems.

Won Copa del Rey (player) with Real Zaragosa
Won promotion (player) with Wigan
Won promotion (manager) with Swansea.
Won the hearts of Wigan fans by keeping them up for 3 successive seasons despite having to sell his best players.
Won FA (manager) cup with Wigan

So Roberto knows what it takes to win something in football. Not bad for a 41 year old.

Dorsss
Trays
Quatro

What’s basque for 5

I'm finding this season frustrating and I anticipate a pasting today from Man City if I'm honest. But I am still behind Martinez overall. I didn't want him to come but he gave me some great memories last season - he is more than capable of doing that again. And as someone else said, if you get frustrated by team-mates passing to each other think back to the days of Neville hoofing it long.

As an aside, there's the inevitable bit of Ossie-bashing above about "knowing he'll be selected next week" no matter how he plays. This is far from accurate - I'm beginning to think Ossie 'starting every game' for Everton should have it's own entry in Snopes.

I agree with James, there has to be some level of fear of your boss. Whether it's getting a bollocking for not concentrating or getting dropped from the team for not putting enough into the game. All this nicey nicey stuff does my head. We're a soft touch. That's probably why teams or players who are going through a bad run love to play us.

Yes Jamie, we are indeed. Anyone watching us recently must notice the lack of urgency, conviction, heart and pride in our play.

Also, the general sloppiness in many individual performances. If it is so noticeable to us what must the opposition be thinking? Not interested in blame but surely someone must accept responsibility?

Any season ticket holder over the last few years could have told you Coleman is not a winger, the same way Baines isn't. It's obvious Barkley is not as effective in the tight home games were teams park the bus but a lot better away when we play on the counter.

What has happened to our attacking fullbacks???

There is a middle there and he is nowhere near it. Look at Simeone, you think any of those players wanted to walk into that dressing room after a defeat. The man looks like a character out of a Bandito movie yet he also is good with the press and I’m sure has fun with the players at some points. Guess what? They won the fucking La Liga. We are drifting and the manager defends his broken policy. That’s a problemo anyway you look at it.