Krasnodar rain on young Blues' parade

Here is a link that explains it all very clearly:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_UEFA_Europa_League#Knockout_phase

This would be so great because I’m from Austria and would only have to drive for 1 hour to visit the Red Bull stadium.

See the tippy tappy football trying to play from the goalkeeper is ingrained right through the club.

*And that lad Dowell was born in October 1997. I give up.

Kone’s looking sharp, love to see him notch tonight. COYB!

Astu needs to be sent back immediately.

Robles needs a new team

...More later

Still, plenty of energy and promise in the overall performance.

When the oppo have it, they’re all over the place. Alcaraz, Pienaar and Barry are the only ones holding this together at times.

Franny Jeffers!

Actually, I’ve realised I’m really enjoying watching the team and seeing some new prospects. The football’s not brilliant, but it feels more direct at times than the tippy, tappy stuff we’re all starting to get a bit fed up with.

Been very impressed with Kone so far, played the lone role really well with power and an actual first touch (are you watching Romelu?!)
Garbutt also looking good and Alcaraz, Pienaar and Barry showing class when needed (as you’d expect).

Don’t forget most young players make their debuts in a scratch side, they do it in ones and twos.
And remember they’re playing against experienced players.

So far if I was Martinez I’d be looking at the faulty offside trap and ing Joel for
Garbutt, Kone and Peanuts the best performers thus far...

Atsu pulling a hammy, couldn’t make that up could you.

Also, and I hope this isn’t libellous, but re the Spurs game: wasnt floodlight failure reported as being part of one of the many Far East spread-betting wheezes?

1. We need to buy a keeper quick, Robles is pure shite

2. Kone looked very, very good. Sharp and held the ball up brilliantly.

3. Garbutt is a million times better at taking corners than any Everton player in last 10 years.

4. We have some good youngsters that could be excellent in a couple of years.

5. Oviedo baby is back....

Ledson is comfortable in possession and defiantly has a future as does dowell by the sounds of it. Mcaleny looks rusty. Browning seems to be the jags clone, not great in possession but can defiantly defend and has a fair bit of pace.

Kone has been good he has better control than I thought. Oviedo is 100% not a centre mid! Would be better off switching him and Pienaar I think.

Joel was fucking terrible there though! I’ve been one saying he should be in over Howard lately because of his constant mistakes but fuck me that was awful from Joel!

Sadly, Robles should have done a Schmeichel "take the fucking lot out" and bottled an easy save.

Kobe is slow as molasses but could be helpful. Also needs to work on some moves. He has zero trickery

Kone/Kobe whatever lol.

Garbutt with another good corner

Where does he fit though? Replacing Lukaku??

Umm... what did I just see out of Robles? Like a U-14 game... Wow!

Minus points: Robles is a walking disaster zone

The rest of the youngsters aren’t anywhere near ready, Ledson looks confident but wants to kick every bugger, Dowell didn’t show enough, McAleny again confident but doesn’t pick his head up for the easier ball.

Garbutt looks the business, Kone will be helpful and push Lukaku and be a different option.

No world beaters anywhere on the horizon.

On balance probably yes baecause it gave us the chance to see what the kids are like in a live game as opposed to Finch Farm.

Thought Pienaar, Garbutt and Kone were outstanding.

Barry was fairly good in the back 4.

Disappointed with Oviedo and Browning who seems to have lost his confidence.

Special mention for Robles who I thought was Krasnodars best attacker. Will somebody please give him a video of "Neville Southall’s goalkeeping basics". Or preferably transfer him to Chester.

Having said all that we didn’t trouble their keeper all night.

Hope we’re prepared for Monday Robbie!!!!

Robles a complete disaster. No wonder Timmy looks so complacent: it would be suicidal for Bobby to sit him. We need to bring in someone to compete for that job.

McAleny nowhere near ready for the senior squad. He was much improved in the second half, but his first half was just terrible. Pienaar showed flashes of his former self, but I think he’s just about finished. Overall, not nearly the "celebration" I was hoping for.

All in all, a good and well worth exercise.

Robles – the less said – not up to standard, full stop.

Most impressive and clearly ready for the step up out of the youngsters are Garbutt and Ledson.

McAleny has pace and showed some nice touches, I think he offers something different, Browning was good, has pace and defends well played well second half but was not as impressive as previously.

Dowell who’s rated highly – he showed nice touches but is clearly too soon for the step up, he looked like a boy against men who needs to grow and get his man strength. A season or so too early to judge him.

Kone was the first team player who was the most encouraging – and that’s with a year and first senior back game.

What we really need to be concerned about after this game is the condition of Tim Greeley’s gastrointestinal tract.

Robles is a shit keeper.
Pienaar is finished as a footballer.
Martinez's pointless, passive, passing at the back is permeating throughout the whole club.

Other than that, the youngsters did us proud.

I must have been watching a different McAleny, he was lightweight and frankly I’d say that was McFadden he would have been destroyed for hogging the ball too long. He will end up at somewhere like Blackburn or Bolton, another Vellios.

Kone was quite impressive, looks like being a good sub at least.

And I predict Garbutt will take over from Baines within the next two years..

Ajax, Roma, Anderleht, Villareal, Sevilla, Torino, Celtic, PSV, Dnipro, Young Boys, AaB, Guingamp, Trabzonspor.

Nice :)

One thing tonight has shown is that Pienaar should be one of two or three leaving the club in the summer, if not in January. He’s simply not good enough.

As for the youngsters, Garbutt, Ledson and Browning are going to be big time players, for me McAleny is not good enough at this level (he’s older than Lukaku) as for the others time will tell, anyway Monday night I’ll be a lot more stressed than I was tonight.

Fred Karno’s Circus would be more appropriate.

McAleny was like the kid on the playground who wants to show how good he is but actually just needs to pass it much quicker.

Our entire club philosophy seems to be to dither and dally on the ball until closed down. You’re supposed to move it much, much quicker than we do.

It’s so simple. Develop the best youth academy with cutting edge training methods. find the best scouts. Send those great scouts and have them go to Africa, Eastern Europe, Latin America wherever. Get those kids in from a young age and build that way if you "don’t have money".

There is absolutely no excuse for it after all of these years. I have no idea where this team is headed.

Celtic please in the next round. The Scottish Kopites are shite and Naisy scoring the winner would be priceless.

What have we won with him? What has he contributed towards that? Why do some people want these old hacks to stick around? They’re not getting better.

Negatives –
Robles.
Losing our unbeaten record.
Tactics - Kone all alone... Browning out of position... McAleny out of position (due to Atsu).

I even noticed a patch of tap it round amongst the back four until a loose pass gave them a clear chance. If we tonk QPR on Monday, then I suppose we will all forget this experiment.

Barry was impressive at centre half – more to come?

The Martinez style now in evidence throughout the club is a big minus as it means we are slow and predictable and will leave these kids of little use to any club. If this is the future, gawd help us!

Garbutt is ready to help the first team, Oviedo is still some way off the pace and Pienaar is still useful but not for a whole game. The kids did alright but as many have said none of them look like making it at the very top level – but at least they have had a go in what was a pretty competitive match which shows how good it was for us to top that particular group.

Now it’s back to the bread and butter of the PL and if the first-team players show the same enthusiasm and willingness to work as many of the lads did tonight, we should be OK – I hope.

Garbutt – looks okay;
Oviedo – okay, but played out of position;
Kone – Transfer window and Championship beckons;
McAleny – Hmmmm! Another McGeady?
Barry – next centre back. Plays there next 5 years;
Keeper – libel laws prevent me from commenting.

There are more Celtic supporters, who are clandestine Toffees, than you would think. I know many, many who hate the Shite.

"Grand Old Team"... origins of this song?

Ledson has a great range of passing and good positional sense and can see in the next season or two him forming a good partnership with McCarthy. Browning is deffo not a right back but will have a bright future as a centre back pairing with Stones.

Nice to see Kone & Oviedo get a good run out, those two will be important squad players for the rest of the season.

One thing for sure: Robles is not good enough even as a back up to Howard so need to get a new keeper in possibly on loan in January and shot of Robles.

He has pace and offers us something different – in that he’s small and nippy and could play off a big man. We don’t have this type of player upfront in our squad.

I know the point you’re making, ultimately you need more than one game to be certain (he too is coming back from an injury I believe) we need to see more of him at this level, whether we do is anybody’s guess.

Blue/green.

Still have it.

And we’d level Celtic and I’d be happy for progressing but don’t want to oust the team that wears hoops. Let someone else do it please God.

Garbutt should play against QPR based on Baines form of late. You never know, we might even score a goal from a corner from this kid’s deliveries. It made me think back to the days of Andy Hinchcliffe.

I thought he pushed Garbutt for MotM.

He was involved in most of our productive play and helped the defense out much more than Mirallas or McGeady would have.

Kone is that man with pace and "nippy"

McAleny just looks too waif-like and I can now see why, since that debut at Arsenal three years ago, he hasn’t been on the bench.

I don’t think we learned a great deal about tonight other than only Garbutt and maybe, just maybe, Browning could knock on the first team door; none of the others are either physically or technically ready and probably won’t be for at least 12-18 months.

Robles is crap, Pienaar sadly his best days are gone, and the probably we won’t see Christian Atsu play in an Everton shirt again, if his hamstring has gone and I think it had then your looking at a few weeks, which he will then go to the African Cup and most certainly back to The Bridge so they can loan him out again.

Atsu’s injury was probably more disappointing than the defeat tonight, a real opportunity for him to show something, instead it just kind of summed up his Everton career so far.

I wasn’t impressed with McAleny at at. It might be a tad harsh to judge him on one game, but some of his decision making was awful. I can think of two or three occasions where he could have played a simple ball out wide to Garbutt, and one to Kone in the first half but opted to run down a blind alley. Hope we sell him in January for a nominal fee with a decent sell-on if he comes good like Forshaw.

Hope we draw Celtic.

I mainly agree with most you say, except I’d like to have another look at McAleny, but with Kone back and rightly in front of him, that’s unlikely to happen.

Browning I think will come through and Ledson I don’t is 18 months away, more likely (6 months) start of next season, that’s not to say regular starter but first team squad member.

I feel if we were short now – he could step and up and do a job.

Robles, Atsu and Pienaar – fully agree.

There is a point at which they are no longer learning from playing youth/reserve football. You give them first team football because it benefits them, not because they’re ready to walk into the team. If any of these players are ready to challenge now then we’ve massively neglected their development by not giving them a few tastes over the last couple of years.

Garbutt, to me, is the one who is absolutely ready for first team football. He needs to either get first team minutes or go on loan.

The rest, are fine in the reserves for now. Didn’t think they did anything wrong but they’ve got a way to go. Give them the odd bench run in the first team to keep them keen.

God forbid we ever have a Munich 58 disaster like Man Utd, our back-up team is impressive enough to compete in EPL. Good footballers are not just bought... but nurtured on home turf. Koodos to the EFC youth academy on tonight's display.

I think that teams have worked out that a lot attacking play comes through Coleman and Baines playing high up top. So they're getting extra attention this season. Because of this over reliance on them we've also been left stretched at the back whenever Distin/Alcaraz play. (Hopefully Stones will be back soon.)

So yes, I think we need to start playing with wing backs more or add some creativity to centre midfield, so I'd have also liked to have seen Baines play in the centre midfield in a dead rubber fixture.

Barnett – Not a right back. Would like to see how he plays at centre half. Looks composed and strong but poor going forwards.

Garbutt – Very impressed. Looks the player that Dick Brady said he was in his much maligned scout reports a while back. A little naïve defending at times but will get better with experience. And his dead balls... Class!

Barry – Played well enough though I'd only like to see him at the back in an emergency.

Alcaraz – Some people praising him tonight. Sorry, I just don't see it. Slow, cumbersome, way too casual with the ball for my liking.

Ledson – Unfair criticism by some on here tonight. This boy is just only 17. Showed composure, good positional sense and a willingness to receive the ball. Likes to get stuck in as well. He will be a player.

Pienaar – Wasn't great, wasn't shite either. Sub for us now at best.

McAleny – Seemed like he was trying to hard. Has got ability no doubt about it,and could maybe have a role as an impact sub. Unfortunately down in the pecking order,and at 22 should probably move on and carve a career somewhere else.

Atsu – Started brightly,then got injured. Just don't think it's gonna happen for him at Everton.

Dowell – Like the look of this kid. Some nice touches and vision when on the ball. Only slight was not involved for long periods. Again only 17 and with good coaching and attitude could become a gem.

Kone – Looked like the player that tore Heitinga a new one at Goodison. Hope it's not a false dawn.

Long – Not on for much but showed some good movement. Get him out on loan to a Championship club and see how he gets on.

Whilst here they should be fringe players and used sparingly – Ossie, Hibbo, Pienaar etc.

They’ve giving us good service but were not good enough to get us where we wanted to be previously, we have won or achieved nothing with them and clearly they aren’t good enough to take us onto the next level.

Being that we want to move on to the next level, I can’t see why some want these players to stay, they’re past it and getting worse as well.

Head scratcher.

Garbutt’s set pieces were fantastic, and he made some good runs. Defensively he was sound too.

Browning looked very solid, always made the right choices and when he physically imposes himself more in games, I can see him being a decent half.

Ledson worked hard and looked more comfortable as the game wore on,

Barry played well, and although Alcaraz made a few howler passes in the first half, he defended well.

I love how positionally aware Oviedo is, but he got mackerel in the second half, but he’ll get there.

Good work out, only negatives is the loss, Robles’s performance, Atsu’s injury and the cold!!!

Garbutt is excellent and deserves a go in the first team. Time for Baines to try a midfield role to get them both in.

Robles was an embarrassment, he even saved the ball with his nose on one occasion. Seems to not have the basics of goalkeeping sorted.

Also, who would have thought we would be lamenting the loss of Naismith. I always liked and rated him, I thought the criticism of him after his injury was absurd. However, much as I admire him, I think his reputation has improved with injury.

McAleny had to go wide when Astu went off. Oviedo played on the right for some unknown reason, maybe a fitness run as with Barry.

Well done Roberto for giving the young lads the opportunity, ginger nut would not have done the same. Well done the young lads.

No-one is asking for a perfected article while these guys are 17-22 years old. I just wish some (Garbutt aside) would show glimpses of excitement! Glimpses of what we saw out of Deulofeu, glimpses of Ross last year, Rodwell when he was good etc...

But just as a general rule, if you haven’t won a thing at 34 years old like most of our players of that age, well then it’s time to move on because it’s not going to happen with them. Simple really isn’t it?? Not for everyone I guess...

I believe most supporters would be delighted if we could replace the older deadwood players as you call them but, with BK despite working 24/7 (cough-cough) to find a consortium or a buyer with money to spend, we have to go with what we have and hope some of the younger players can force their way into the team.

We do not want to return to the policy of selling our best young players to pay off bank loans or please the smug Sky Pundits.

The amount of quality running and movement from the kids was great and if they had a decent pass to run on to we could have gotten a couple. Stand out performers for me were Kone and Garbutt, with Oviedo and Ledson putting in very good shifts as well. I hope they all play a part on Monday.

Injury time – a free kick and an opportunity to pile the box and force a chance, but we put three on the edge of their box, no-one challenging the second ball, and it was cleared – and that sums this team irrespective of who is playing up at that moment.

Robles – does any one watch him pre-match and at half-time in the PL games? He never practices basic keeping pre-match when there is shooting practice, he just lets everyone score, Half-time and he has a kick about with the goalie coach. If it were me I'd be diving everywhere to show what I can do, but then again judging from what he does when he has an opportunity, it is obvious to see that he can do little.

Browning – did okay, bit unfair on the lad if he is a centre half.

Alcaraz – did okay, good to have him back.

Barry – missed him in midfield given the experience.

Garbutt – very positive, he looks a class act in the making.

Ledson – grew into the match, good positioning.

Oviedo – good to have him back, and goes ahead of Pienaar in pecking order for me.
Pienaar – leg strapped, but looks well off the pace. Gone at Xmas?

Atsu – took one player, and the did his hamstring. Back at The Bridge come January 1.

McAleny – bright, you’d imagine he will make a football career elsewhere given his age.
Kone – I was very pleased with his comeback. Get him on the bench over Christmas.

Garbutt was excellent and really whips in those crosses. I was impressed by Ledson too and can see him as a Premier League player in a year or two.

Browning is an imposing lad and I don’t think he did much wrong but he must be a centre-back.

Dowell isn’t there yet but he did show a bit of vision and he’ll definitely improve.

It didn’t really happen for McAleny but surely he should be on loan for game time – he’s not going to get past Naismith, Eto’o, Lukaku and Kone for now.

Alcaraz, Oviedo, Kone and Pienaar all look fine for the first team.

Final word for Kone, who looked mobile and impressive – let’s hope he stays fit.

Any opportunity for a snide comment heh?

http://ToffeeWeb.com/season/09-10/reports/BATEBorisov(h).asp

Or is your narrow mindedness affecting your memory.

Robles – say no more. What a disaster area!!!!

Agreed.

Bill 186

I understand the restrictions and agree with building youth policy. The point I’m making is that there is better quality players out there than what we have as fringe players that can be found at good market value.

Clubs like Swansea, Stoke, Southampton all seem to find them. Yet we tend to stick with these fringe players.

Besic would one good example of where we have found a gem for excellent market value of £4M – yet it is infrequent.

Martinez spent a large part of the summer transfer fee on one player, hopefully this season he will be able to spread it around more and strengthen the squad.

I agree we don’t want to be selling our best players off.

Anyone know anything – does Martinez feel they are not ready yet, can he only play so many youngsters at once without upsetting the balance and or are any of them carrying an injury etc.

I thought he did quite well last night and, also, I can't believe some of the ridiculous comments on here saying Pienaar was crap. Pienaar can bring out the best in players like Baines and Garbutt, dovetailing with them and allowing them to get down the wing. Garbutt was excellent, Ledson got better as the game progressed.

A useful exercise in a dead rubber of a game.

Henen tweeted he and Galloway were not eligible and we're off to London?! Can't shed anymore light!

Look at his goals record for EFC, then look at his assists and maybe then realise he does nothing for us.

Time to move him on while he still has a good name.

The RS did exactly what you said and look at where they are now. They should have addressed Suarez leaving but they didn't, and bought rubbish just to put up numbers in the squad.

We addressed the lack of striking option and bought Lukaku. It's a different argument whether he's worth the money but, in my opinion, we look more of a threat with him in the side, we addressed the striking problem.

Now looking at this summer, I'd say the problem is the centre half and the left wing position. If Roberto spends big on those two positions and keeps the bulk of the squad then I'd be a happy Blue.

Ledson's positional play was very good and you don't see that on TV. If you thought I was having a go, I apoligise.

"Well done Roberto for giving the young lads the opportunity, ginger nut would not have done the same. Well done the young lads."

He then added a link to the 2009 Bate game, where Moyes did the exact same thing as Bobby....5 years before Bobby did it!

Everton can register up to 25 players to be eligible for the competition. Within that 25 man squad, 8 must be must be trained from within the English league system and of those 8, 4 must be trained by the club.

Club-trained players are defined as players who, regardless of their place of birth, have been registered between the ages of 15 and 21 with their current club for a period of three entire seasons or 36 months.

Cheers.

Ben

You answer your own point here - they bought rubbish and overpaid for it.

You can spend big or small - its whether the manager knows what he’s doing in the market.

There are players to found at great value - Besic is the perfect example of this as are Coleman, Garbutt etc you don’t have to spend big.

At the same time if a real quality player becomes available that wants to come Everton - please... Bobby, go for it!

However, at no point did I say we should buy rubbish just to add to the squad, what I said was there are better players out there than the fringe old players we have and are keeping at value prices that we could replace them with - and other clubs manage to find them.

I agree and didn’t and don’t have a problem with RM spending large on one player last season - I agree as well that he overpaid for RL but see Lukaku long-term as an integral put of the side.

Last season we spent roughly £35m?

The point I was looking to make was its unlikely this season Bob will spend that large on any one player (£28M) - he could buy 3/5 quality signings with if he has a similar budget this season.

Thank you, Makes more sense now.

Ledson is well beyond his years,for someone so young he had a bit of authority about him and has a bit of bite (nastiness) which is good for that holding midfield role. I don’t think he’d look out of place in a league game now, that’s how much I rate him.

All the speculation at the moment is on Barkley but this lad will have the clubs with money chasing his signature in a few years, I’ve no doubt about that.

Browning has always impressed me when he’s played at right back and after last nights performance I would choose him over Hibert every day but it’s as a central defender (his natural position) that I would like to see how he copes. When Coleman is fully fit and we lose a central defender through injury I would like to see Browning given a chance if only to speed up the process of having Browning and Stones as a partnership. And if Galloway is as good as people say we could have a quality young defence for years to come.

All in all it was good viewing for me,the only negative was Robles’s mistake and it would of been nice if Browning had been given more applause from the crowd when substituted as he put in yet another first class display.

Surely addressing the striking problem is getting a striker that scores goals, not a striker that threatens to score but fails? We could have got Balotelli for 10 mill cheaper if that's what we wanted.

More important was that the experienced players played well (except Robles). Kone's control is excellent. Barry back to his normal assured display. Pienaar looked good. Oviedo getting back into it.

And some good experience for the young lads. Garbutt - say no more. Ledson, for 17 looked steady enough. McAleny is my only concern.

So what's not to like.

Now I've always rated our Tim as the best goalkeeper outside the 'top 4' and have held the belief that goalkeepers get remembered for their errors and an otherwise excellent performance in a game can be forgotten. So I've always given Tim a bit of slack, but this story is enough for me to conclude it's time for an immediate change between the sticks.

The errors are getting more and more. Added to that, from the top of my head, his save-to-shot ratio is the poorest at something like 37.1%, which gives credence to what Martinez was saying the other week about the opposition getting one chance and scoring.

Also, after seeing yet again how inept Robles is, even at the basics (not covering the near post enough on the goal last night), I'm starting to think that we really do need to get a quality keeper in fast, along with centre half and a winger to replace Atsu.

I don't think he is as good as he was but he is certainly good enough for the Prem.

The problem with the statistics is they reflect on the keeper when the team selection and tactics as well as individual defensive mistakes all contribute to this.

I don't think I've jumped on the bandwagon for Howard to be ousted because I've always appreciated him in excelling at shot stopping. I've been placing the blame with the liability Distin has become, but that said, Howard has become more error prone this season, and as you said, not as good as he used to be. The statistics in that Independent article have just swayed me into believing we now need a good keeper in January (either a direct replacement or someone to challenge Howard more than Robles) rather than waiting until in the summer.

Howard must stay in the team because Robles is useless. Great to see Kone back and looking strong and eager; we are going to need him over the Christmas period.

How exactly is he going to manage that? He's cost us about seven million quid thus far.

I think Kone himself would settle for staying healthy enough to start to making a meaningful contribution.

On yesterday's goal: whilst criticism of Robles is probably fair, it was pointed out several times by the pundits (far too much perhaps..) that Pienaar didn't help in the build up to the goal as he was pointing to Garbutt to keep an eye on the wide man instead of moving inside to mark/track the runner, the one that Pienaar let run through to score. You have to assume, if Garbutt had moved inside, the goal may not have happened.

Anyway, quite a good performance from the young ones. I agree with earlier comments about trying to give McAleny a game and that, at his age, I thought perhaps for his own benefit and career, if he wasn't likely to be getting many games, he should move on. I forgot about the injuries he had; at 22 he has years ahead of him to prove his worth.

More and more, I see why the lifelong Evertonians feel about BK.

What was that dance move masquerading as a save for their goal? Wouldn't have looked out of place in the West End! Maybe that's where BK found him!

Who was that dreadful injury-prone goalie we had that fell out of his loft at home and hurt his shoulder, and landed on the A board when jumping in the goalmouth during a warm up and went off injured?!