Best of Besic still to come

Personally I don't think he has a chance unless Martinez leaves the club and we get a manager who is more inclined towards attacking football instead of stuffing the side with defensive players.

Bobby, you are truly clueless and full of shite.... thinking you can use bullshit bollocks to Evertonians! Just leave... please!!!

He definitely has his work cut out just to keep from being trampled underfoot He's a mid-fielder smaller even than Baines or Ossie. Anyone seen anything so far indicating Besic has something close to their skills?

I like him, want the best for him. But, sorry to say, I'm looking at a pacy MLS player.

Like McCarthy and Barry he doesn't seem to have any creativity in his game. He's made hundreds of tackles in those 29 appearances but how many goals has he scored? How many assists?

He has already managed to get himself noticed by every premiership referee (not easy to reverse). If the guy created chances like he gave away free kicks he might be worth getting excited about.

A water carrier who was afforded cult status by people desperate to justify their hero's extended jolly in South America.

Praise him all you want, but he is another Martinez signing who will never get your arse working its way to the edge of your seat.

The right manager will set the likes of Barkley, Besic and McCarthy free instead of stifling them with ineffective tactics that do not naturally suit their style.

Fellaini collected numerous bookings when he began and indeed still does but that"s exactly what we need, players with bite and a bit of nastiness.. He's far more than a water carrier and we would do well to recognise his ability before he leaves us and flourishes elsewhere. Of course, in his first season he's had blips but so what?

Besic and McCarthy are major plus points for Martinez and, as someone who thinks the manager should be sacked in the summer, I have no problem in saying so. If we treat them right, those two players will be the heart of our side for years to come.

Loads of people having a go at Martinez. I think he deserves more time and don't see two seasons as enough to judge him. Perhaps my opinion is slanted because of way I viewed Moyes.

However, the one point I found hard to criticise Moyes on was his transfer dealings with us. The biggest doubt I have with Martinez is his transfer dealings whilst with us. When at Wigan, I don't think he did too bad but with us, the jury is well and truly out... and his prospects look bleak currently.

A water carrier? Are you mad. He's our best midfielder by far and has great vision. The boy needs games. Next season, him and McCarthy and Ross will rule the Premier League.

I thought his best game this season was when he was partnered with Barkley against QPR. He was a real tiger in midfield and Joey Barton was scared to death by his raw aggression.

I think thereÂ’s so much more to come from Besic. If we think back to the shambles of pre-season, Besic was the only major plus to come out of it. He showed some amazing rage of passing that had many of us purring. For some reason he hasnÂ’t shown that same ability in competitive games, but he definitely has it in his locker.

The future is bright for Mo, and we are lucky to have him.

There were occasions when he was playing (West Brom at home comes to mind) where he was the only creative influence in a Blue jersey on the pitch, suggesting he can be more than just the holding midfielder he has been allowed to be so far.

My one gripe is his immaturity when it comes to flying into challenges (he essentially admitted that he will go in recklessly every game until he is booked) but that will change over time. In the meantime, I think he's an exciting prospect and the longer-term (I'd prefer shorter but I'm not Martinez) successor to Gareth Barry.

Seek. Medical. Help.....

The Blues have to now look beyond Pienaar, Osman, Gibson and Barry.

That's my worry with Browning as well, he's only a inch taller than Besic. Perhaps Browning's future is as a RB.

Unknown footballers playing in Hungary (or the Championship, Germany, France) or wherever don't cost loads. Somebody said Cabaye before – obviously no way we could afford him now but Newcastle got him for a snip.

It is possible to get gems for ٢m. I do think people are exaggerating his potential from what I have seen of him.

Occasionally Barry wakes up and remembers what he can do, and gets forward and plays a good pass. Just what is our boss drumming into our players? He seems so positive in his words, and "bigs" his boys up, but he is stifling their creativity.

It's really baffling. If Lennon does sign, will he become the bastard son of Ray Wilkins?

It'll never happen anyway. It's like Baines moving into the Lahm midfield role.

Lyndon and Kevin T, spot on. Give the lad a chance.

Also, if you want to balance the argument about OFM's signings (Why would you bring that up?) Simon Davies, Bilyaletdinov and shandy Andy were all garbage, and one a known drug abuser. Transfer fees have also rocketed in the past 7 or 8 years. Look at all the 㿀m players across the park, most of them wouldn't have been worth ٢m even five or six years ago. The equivalent fee in 2007 when we signed Arteta, or any of the above players you mention is irrelevant. I am sure you realise that 8 years on in the Premier League, transfer fees are not comparable?

We are talking about a 22-year-old, who will be excellent value for money. I've seen enough of him to think he could be a very good player.

Chelsea 87

It's hard to believe the state of Stamford Bridge and the state of the pitch. Watch out for a fantastic goal from Alan Harper and a wonderful save by Big Nev. Add to that the unbelievable decision by the referee to award Everton a free-kick on the edge of the area when it was a clear penalty.

Same as every player on our books then. Sick of hearing it, Roberto.

Link

As for Besic, I'm not sold as yet and anything Martinez says is not to be believed.

This manager is out of his depth.... Martinez, please leave – you’re destroying our talented youth lads and also totally messing with our senior players’ heads. Your decision-making all things Everton over the last year or so – has been amateur at best! Leave... After 50 years of total devotion to my special club, I have started to be confused and very upset with what you say and things you do!! You’re embarrassing our great club.

He did lead in chances created for the other team and assists for the other team's goal over the three with his woeful no-look passes and easy turnovers. Agree the position might be different but in Europe is a forward pass something other than what we understand it to be?

Nobody expects David Silva for ٢M. We are getting what we paid for, a ٢M player, somtimes slightly above average and sometimes slightly below.

I despair when I see genuinely gifted players like Bojan signing for half the club at half the price. Yet we are shouting about this guy from the roof tops.

I may well reconsider if he ever creates a chance or two – at the right end.

How many goals has Bojan scored this season?

The Premier League is hyped beyond belief when standard is poor. Obviously I hope IÂ’m wrong with Besic but just donÂ’t see it.

The teams that have come up from Championship all have some players that I would happily see in our side. I remember with Arteta tearing my hair out when we were haggling over the fee as he was pure quality. Whether Besic cost 㾶m or ٢m, I just donÂ’t see this quality player others see.

He's probably on the small side for a centre-half but, if you're going to tell me that Alcaraz was the safer option at the time, then you're as mad as Bobby is, I say.

He doesn't shoot, doesn't score goals, has hardly played a forward progressive pass when he's played but he does run around a lot.

I'm failing to see what the midfield of McCarthy, Besic and Barry are going to achieve next season. One goal all season between the three of them!! They are all too alike and it's even more noticeable when Barkley has only scored two all season.

Our central midfielder has been shite all season and sticking with the same group won't bring about any better fortunes next season. No movement, nobody who can play a creative pass... Get used to it, guys.

I don't dislike Besic I just don't think he's done enough yet to justify all this "world class" or "phenomenal talent" clamour.

What he is, he is a relatively competent stopper, he's not disciplined enough to play weekly basis yet and he's not better than McCarthy at defensive duties.

As for him at centre half??? Sure he's really going to win headers against the the like of Stoke or West Ham isn't he? Against strikers with rapid pace and power and movement, people need to accept this is the English Premier League – not the bleeding Xbox!!

Besic is very young for the position he is being asked to play and will mature into it. I still chuckle every time he plays and there is a stream of derision on the live forum because of the guaranteed red card coming his way. How many of those has he had this season?

We need just on DM on the park at any one time. RM's system has just one striker and two DMs. Why are people surprised with the lack of chances created? It's too negative. We need to phase out Barry and just use McCarthy in the role with Besic as backup.

I'm with Martinez all the way with this lad. He personally scouted him in Brazil and will bring him through gradually. The schoolboy errors will be eliminated and he'll probably become a regular starter. Maybe in the Barry role, maybe in the McCarthy role. Who knows.

The most interesting thing about the Swansea game was McCarthy in the No 10 position. People who think he pushed himself further forward can forget it. He was deliberately played between Kone and Barkley and, apart from fluffing a scoring chance, linked very well with Kone, Barkley, Pienaar, Lennon, Coleman and Baines. Occasionally he did chase back but only when it was necessary.

Personally, I hope we try this again. It helped create our goal and our passing in the final third was much better than of late. Probably because all those concerned had a good first touch.

Rather bullshit talking, why doesn't Martinez show us Besic for the remaining few games of the season and let's see if he can offer something different than we have seen so far in his performances, which is basically just a carbon copy James McCarthy... or James McCarthy-lite.

Martinez has just finished telling us that at the age of 34, Barry has played in more matches than expected, so bloody give him a rest now there's nothing to play for.

His biggest problem is that he is very similar to McCarthy. Both offer great energy and dynamism, can pass the ball decently but lack forward penetration.

As pointed out earlier you really want to have a combination of a destroyer and a creator if you are playing two holding DMCs as Chelsea have had with Matic and Fabregas. Our problem is that we have not had that creative option except for Gibson and that's what we need to look for this Summer. Cleverley is not the solution. I've heard Cabaye could be available for ٦M... probably a longshot but he would add a huge amount alongside McCarthy or Besic.

Roberto should forget about Cleverley and sign an attacking creative CM; otherwise, we're in for another poor season.

Anti-Martinez logic No. 2: conveniently dismiss all the garbage OFM signed, just point out the successful transfers, then cherry pick those to prove Martinez is useless.

Transparent nonsense that's all too prevalent on here these days. At least Walling disliked him regardless of any results or transfers.

There has to be a creative little gem out there somewhere. We said during the summertime that Ross Barkley was the man that this burden would fall upon and we were right, sadly Ross has failed to live up to it, both physically and mentally.

Agree that Cleverley is NOT that man to answer our problems.

Cleverley may have been a decent signing if we were lacking that type of player but we are overloaded with them.

You also ask "I wonder why you spend so much time on here?"

Well, I have been a Blue for 40 odd years, and I have been a season ticket holder for most of that time,apart from a few years spent overseas. So you see, Everton are sort of a big part of my life.

Is that OK with you?

I am in agreement that Besic needs to be eased in. Some players need that, others don't. And if they are needed, then it's reasonable for the manager to do so.

Lyndon pointed out that (and has many others) that Besic picks up yellow cards far too easily. I'm reminded of Dacourt and Materazzi. Walter Smith bought them (they were in their early 20s), and they were picking up yellow cards rapidly. Gravesen took a few seasons to become productive.

Re comments that Besic is too small, Denis Wise wasn't too big, was he? Neither was Peter Reid or Paul Bracewell. And these players did alright.

I see him as the player to take over from Barry. It's unfortunate that Barry's decline this season is faster, which heightens everyone's expectations that Besic should be put into the first team much earlier.

Re the point about picking bargains outside of England and possibly Europe, the fact is, you'll need time for them to get acclimatized. To expect a bargain buy to acclimatize quickly and perform like a world-beater, I guess the formula is not that easily found.

Remember Juan Sebastian Veron? The media were all touting him as the next Player of the Year, even before the season started. Look where that got him, an experienced player, and a record buy then.

Also, whether I like Martinez or not has no bearing whatsoever on whether I think a player is good. And finally, I thought Moyes's transfer dealing were his biggest strength but disliked him as a manager!

Gives the ball away at times (à la Barkley) and occasionally makes a decent tackle about as often as he makes a bad one. He's no Paul Scholes when it comes to passing the ball, and he's no Paul Scholes when it comes to tackling either – if you see what I mean.

I like him and think he will be a great player for us.

"Have I missed something. How many goals has Bojan score this season" . . . Dear me

You clearly did miss something. Despite having his season cut in half through serious injury. He has STILL managed to score and probably create more goals than McCarthy Besic and Barry put together . . actually you can throw in Kone into the mix too - another of "swashbuckling" Robbies signings. He's a proper footballer see

Besic is not a bad little player, but you guys really do need to get a grip . . . "He's someone you can rely on, someone you can build a special future on" Do you actually believe that ? I bet Martinez doesnt

Our midfield has been one of the most unproductive in world football this season - sadly fact - yet this "top class" signing still needs other players to be injured before he can get a game. Go figure

like I say, decent little player, but if we are ever to make inroads, our sights need to be considerably higher.

The reality is that few players are actually world class but talent like Messi, Ronaldo, Ribery, Robben, Suarez, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger, Iniesta, these players are what world class is.

I have read fans on here referring to Besic or McCarthy as world class, get a grip guy's.

They are competent, solid performers who have a decent engine on them at Premier League level... But world class??

Not in a million year's.

I havenÂ’t checked but I would imagine Naismith has scored more goals than StokeÂ’s 3 defensive midfielders combined total?

Kone has missed more than half a season; injured to be fair.

Which, like it or not, precludes us for at least the foreseeable future, and probably well beyond.

Whoever the manager is.

Hasn't it been good to see McCarthy getting somewhere near to our opponent's penalty area... but sadly he won't shoot.

McCarthy is a starter every week, hopefully he's enough to stifle 90% of Premier League teams. With this in mind, either McCarthy or Besic have to add goals to there game.

HeÂ’s got one goal every four games for Stoke with just the one assist in 16 games.

I'll tell you why: McCarthy and Besic are not creative enough – and are never likely to be. You can afford one in the midfield but not three as it is with Barry as well.

As for Barkley, well what a disappointment heÂ’s been. Yes, you could argue heÂ’s been shunted out wide... but that doesnÂ’t excuse his ability to lose the ball all the time or easily get shoved off it.

I happen to think Barkley is a fantastic talent and I am always waiting for him to run games but this season it just hasnÂ’t happened. Whether heÂ’s playing under orders, only he and the playing staff know that... but heÂ’s been poor.

As for Besic, he's not what we need. What we need, dare I say it, is someone in the Couthino mould – hard to come by, yes, but that’s what scouts get paid to do. No, we'll end up with Tom Cleverley or someone of that ilk.

Personally I don’t think Besic is strong enough or pacy enough to hack it in the Premier League. As for some posters saying he’s been superb, some fans are easily pleased. I’m with Darren Hind myself – he's nothing more than a water carrier.

Hey Andy there have been some pretty memorable Â’water carriersÂ’ mate, the one that stands out for me played somewhere up the Punjab - you may remember him a chap called Gunga Din.

And he was probably a Â’better manÂ’ that Besic! The sort of fella that would put his life on the line!