Lineker sure he would have won silverware had he stayed at Everton

Sharing a huge 64 goals between them in their only season says it all for me.

It was a vile episode in football ironically ended by perhaps the biggest hypocrites in world football and the luckiest team IÂ’ve ever known in world football. Example; IÂ’ve argued with many Italians I know who think Juventus are a poxy shower but theyÂ’ve got nothing on that lot. In amongst that massive European "domination" (aka fluking it to finals against shite sides), Forest (!!!!!) won 2 ECÂ’s and Villa won 1. Lol. Never forget, Blues; we started that horrid club by mistake.

They stole the City emblem. Everything else they made up, and then claimed. They wanted it all. And us gone. Cos they deny the truth. But fuck it, IÂ’m glad IÂ’m a blue instead of some misguided glory hunter who canÂ’t remember their team was the dirtiest side anyone's ever seen but all the media gobshites love them. Billy fucking Liddel. They haven't even got a nickname ;-)

One day we will have our revenge.

Up the Toffees.

I know there were stories that he was promised the Barca job hence was happy to sell Lineker to them in advance, but IÂ’ve never really believed that one.

Say no more.

Kendall was vindicated on the one hand, as he won the 1986-87 league.

Kendall did talk about how they were too one-dimensional because of Lineker, and itÂ’s interesting here that Lineker disagrees.

Given KendallÂ’s personality, he could have dictated the kind of tactics. I look at how Liverpool played, with another speedy goal machine (Rush) in their attack. They were less one-dimensional, and it served them well.

So in some ways, I am inclined to agree with Lineker that the club saw the money (they more than doubled the investment I believe) and they took it.

ItÂ’s always a hit and miss i.e. when you sell your best players, and whether thatÂ’s a good decision. Ball was sold for the same reason, though others felt that he was already on the downward slide.

I think the club stopped being forward thinking – both at the academy level where they allowed so many young talents to be snapped up by the Reds. Kendall, while flourishing again in 1987, never really bought any solid talents.

Harvey was given the chequebook by the club, so thatÂ’s something to give credit to the club for. However, it again shows how a good coach doesnÂ’t a good manager make.

I know a lot of fans give Lineker stick for not talking enough about Everton. But for only being around at Goodison for a season, he would have less to say than what he feels about Leicester, or Spurs. Yet, whenever he speaks about Everton and his time, he was always very sincere. In fact, in one of his interviews, he retorted that he doesnÂ’t seem to talk about Everton as much (when asked by journalists) is because whenever people ask him, he is seldom asked about his stint there. Though whenever he is asked, he would have only good things to say.

In fact, when I first read the news (back in the good old days of Shoot magazine) that he signed for Spurs back in 1989, I thought we missed a golden opportunity. And we did, as he went on to have at least another 3 to 4 productive seasons at Spurs.

Instead, we bought Cottee (promising) which didnÂ’t quite turn out as expected unfortunately.

Everton should be like Arsenal, we used to be; but we are far from that now and.... it will take another 20 years with a solid plan in place for us to catch up.

As an optimist I believe the ground work was laid by Moyes and we are at the beginning of a climb upwards. What we need now is a manager with vision and a plan (like Wenger) and not someone who talks before his brain is engaged and seems to be incapable of saying anything that is remotely related to the truth.

Onto Lineker; I agree with Kendall that we changed our style to accommodate him and it eventually cost us, but the change of tactics was startling form the 1985, when everything went through our Roll-Royce midfield, to ball played in behind for Lineker to latch onto.

BTW donÂ’t forget when we sold him, we reverted to playing through the middle and won the league again.

At this point I feel as if I should break out into Â’The way we wereÂ’.

My opinion:

Heysel was a contributing factor in our decline and one of the main reasons I can’t stand the Redshite. (That aside, there are plenty of other reasons I loathe them – see last season’s ’Saturday Dilemma’ thread for reference). To say that it wasn’t a contributing factor is to ignore the foundation we had at that time of kicking on to be a real force in Europe. It was a potential breakthrough period in our history from which we failed to progress.

That we failed to progress is not entirely due to Heysel. We appear to lack a vision and corresponding strategy / tactics for success. That is, if we define success as winning trophies. As a club, survival in the top flight seems to be our mantra. There may be logistical reasons for that – finances among them – but we have become also-rans in the Sky era.

Our current barren period (almost 3 decades of it as a title contending force) bears comparison with the barren period of 1971-1983. We did not spend big to make the breakthrough to the 1984-1987 era (Lineker aside).

Finances aside, we live in hope that there is a vision, strategy, Plan A, B, C etc. But IÂ’m not holding my breath at the moment.

Everton were, as we all know, run and owned by the Mighty Sir John Moores. By the early 80s, Sir John was in dire health and so ceased to have much to do with us. Fortunately, heÂ’d put one of his best men, Sir Phillip Carter, at the helm and we were able to have one last glory period.

But letÂ’s not pretend that because Everton had glory on the pitch in that Golden era from 1984-1987, that all was well off it. Far from it, we were falling apart, we were hemorrhaging money, as all clubs were at this stage (the 80s had low attendances where most clubs failed to average over 20,000 and no real TV money). Sir John died and the Moores family had control of us, but the new head of the Family was David Moores who threw us to the wolves and used the family money to buy Liverpool FC. We were Moores-owned until agent Johnson stepped in. By this time, Sir Phillip had stepped down and we had a bloody GP running the club (Dr David Marsh).

So the real reason weÂ’re screwed is a combination of the death of Sir John, the lean financial rewards of the 80s, no real owner for over 10 years, Hysel, and the mere fact that we were a rudderless ship heading for nowhere.

DonÂ’t forget Sir Phillip was instrumental in setting up the Premier League as he saw it as a way of cementing EvertonÂ’s place in the big 5 (us, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal and either Spurs or Forest depending on who you ask). It was thought that this restructuring would bring money to these big five clubs and it did, only we dropped off the runaway train.

If my memory serves me right didn't we beat Man City 4-0 in a night game at GP and the City fans were singing "You are the Champions!"

Alas, we can only speculate on what could have happened re Lineker, the Euro ban etc... but the spectacular short-sightedness of the board to me was the major contributor in our decline.

Heysel?.... Yes, it was a factor... God bless the 39.

ItÂ’s funny how LiverpoolÂ’s top players with the exception of Rush didnÂ’t feel the need to leave and at the time the wages were pretty similar to what Everton were paying.

Gareth #24
A bit unfair / in hindsight blaming Colin Harvey.
I remember most Evertonians (at least in my circle) thinking he was the engine room of the Kendall era – and a natural successor.

I do recall some needle in the team – Sharp / Cottee and Sheedy / Keown – but as Steve (#20) highlights, it appeared to be something of a perfect storm for EFC at that time.

In the last ten games, Liverpool kept winning - similar to two seasons ago but without the Gerrard slip. But Everton were so far ahead, they shoulda won, but started panicking and it cost them. Panic lost us the League, not Lineker or Oxford bloody Utd.

WeÂ’d have won more had he stayed.

Heysel is a body blow we never recovered from. And even as a 14-year-old, I knew it then.

In 1985, Everton were the best club side in England, Europe and voted World Team of the Year. And despite Everton's interest he was still trying to get his agent to get him a move to Man Utd (who we had battered 5-0 the previous season) because they paid the best wages.

The United board told Atkinson he could have the money for Lineker but he had to sell Stapleton first to raise most of the money. Stapleton removed to leave and the deal fell through. If it wasn't for Stapleton we would never have seen this twat in an Everton shirt.

He didn't care about us then and never did, so anyone wondering why he never talks about us, there is your answer.

The world has fundamentally changed since Thatcher.

Economics is the main reason Everton has declined. Look at north London, then look at north Liverpool.

The former has boomed under Thatcherism. The Emirates is packed full of 60,000 middle class fans paying 㿲-80 for a ticket - and a long queue behind them pleading for a ticket, along with loads of corp sector bodies not interested in flying up to Liverpool and then head towards Sandhills.

Money buys success. ItÂ’s gonna be much harder for Everton to ever emulate Arsenal again.

With Sharp and Gray upfront for the majority of the previous season, we played direct football when required. We did the same in 1985-86 only exploited LinekerÂ’s pace instead, mixed in with classical Everton style football.

We lost the league due to the terrible run of injuries that dogged us that season losing many top players for long periods (not least Big Nev during the run-in), and because Liverpool went that huge run of winning games after we beat them at Anfield, and even then we went so so close.

No way will I ever say KendallÂ’s decision to sell was vindicated because we won the title the year after because would we really have declined as fast as we did had we kept this world-class striker? Probably not, in my opinion. His long term replacement was Tony Cottee... enough said.

It also makes me laugh when I hear the tedious old line that he never gives us a mention on MotD: 1) HeÂ’s a presenter not a pundit; 2) The bloke isnÂ’t an Evertonian, heÂ’s a self-confessed Leicester fan.

Then banned from playing on the European and world stage for 5 years. Top players and manager lost.

Yet apparently according to some on here the ban was not responsible for EvertonÂ’s demise. Really???

Andy Gray also said he would have been happy to stay and be a squad player if we had the European Cup to go for.

The goal return of all the other players diminished when Lineker arrived, so how anyone can say it didn't affect the team is beyond comprehension. He hogged the limelight to the detriment of the overall team.

Er.... excuse me but just what the fuck did we do to merit a ban at the time? And that goes for the other English clubs as well... and they wonder why IÂ’m bitter!

Smaller clubs can buck the trend for a period, but never in the long term.

Also, Howard leaving was because of the ban; we lost Trevor Steven and Gary Stevens, Bracewell was never the same after that kamikaze tackle from the gobshite Whitehurst and Harvey was out of his depth. Do you honestly think Kendall would have signed Cottee, Nevin and McDonald??? We went backwards after that, so I firmly believe that Heysel was a huge turning point in the history of Everton.

Mimms had a decent goals conceded but pretty certain had Southall not picked up his injury, we would not've slipped up in the league or the FA Cup, just my opinion.

Maybe then we may have resisted selling Lineker, but Heysel was definitely the turning point in our demise.

Heysel contributed but then isnÂ’t the history of Everton all about missed opportunities?

It is too simplistic to suggest that Kendall / the board were vindicated by selling Lineker given that we won the title in 1987; that was the last time that we won it and the team of 1985 going into 1988 was nothing in comparison.

LetÂ’s leave the re-writing of history to the RS.

Other first team players leaving as well for European football left us in tatters really. We needed to keep them and add to the team. I was gutted he never came back to us and chose Spurs instead.

Roberto; why I refer to Arsenal and not Man United, Liverpool, Man City or Chelsea (the other clubs winning trophies and/or with large support) is that Arsenal have not been the result of an instant buyout with the sudden influx of capital it brings. Arsenal have been managed properly for the last 30 years and are today the result of prudent management with a long term goal. Arsenal as a result are an international brand and Everton are not.

I am aware of the demographic and economic shift since the the eighties but your argument reads as if there is no chance; solely due to this reason. When you look at who has won the Premier League since its inception; it's three to two in favour of the North West.

Everton were similar to Arsenal until we went through a long period of mismanagement with extraneous factors; Steve Ferns (#20) sums this up well.

We can regain some of the ground lost in the last 25 years, we just need a board with foresight, ambition and a plan. A manager that will implement that plan, develop, scout and recruit players than can follow that plan. Football is a business; this is how a business operates, Arsenal operate a good business model; let's copy it.

ItÂ’s not about what Everton didnÂ’t do in the immediate post-Heysel period; itÂ’s all about what they couldnÂ’t do, ie, lift the European Cup or at least have a go at it. A fortnight after our only European triumph and a few weeks/months following our most successful season, all the glory and opportunities disappeared through no fault of our own.

Even at the start of the 1985-86 campaign, there was no TV coverage due to the inability to strike a deal between the TV companies and the football authorities – pretty useful for the club from across the park as they didn’t have to endure the constant reference of Everton being called Champions on TV or have any difficult questions raised as to the fairness of the ban.

Bitter? You bet I am. I went home and away for 10 years before we saw that great team of 1985 and during that 10 years, I had to endure grief from the other lot as they kept winning trophies whilst we failed at the final hurdles. But, for the first time in my watching, we had a very very good team and it would only have got better if it had been able to play on the European stage.

But now, I have to endure "plucky little Everton" and "be careful what you wish for" and "top six is about our limit". I hate football sometimes but, for the younger generation, I hope you get to see a proper Everton team that tears apart the opposition because itÂ’s been too long since weÂ’ve seen that at Goodison.

Lineker had a good season but I agree with those that said we went too direct and his bad night at Oxford United lost us the Title, the team became too ready to look for Lineker rather than create opportunities for the rest of the team. Best goal of LinekerÂ’s was against Luton Town at Goodison in the cup replay.