Roberto Martinez' mantras have become muddled and it' time for a change at Everton

Yet another in a long, long, line of eloquent / pretty much nail / head denunciations... if anymore were needed, which unless something happens today, it seems they are.

I daren't, (well I do, I just haven't done it yet) look back in the archives to see how long the ground swell of opinion has been building for.

Mr. Moshiri, please put Him, Us, (and those poor reporters, who have to listen to the daily tripe...I know most of them work for some sort of 'Daily Tripe', but you wouldn't treat a detainee at Gitmo to this type of torture) out of our collective misery.

'Action This Day' is what Winston used to write...sounds good to me.

There was a narrative cleverly created years ago that Moyes was no good, useless, a joke etc.. Words and expressions like 'stale' 'boring' 'KITAP1' 'a loser', 'knife to a gunfight' - Moyes' own, but the words of a genuine pragmatist- plus various derogatory comments about his physical appearance (never used against RM), the list goes on and on. Now Moyes was never a brilliant manager but he was a good manager who stabilised our club, won manager of the year 3 times and manager of the month 10 times. He then left us to join Manure which didn't help his PR either, but he'd had 11 years and had the chance to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. He didn't break his contract.

He was not above criticism, I criticised him and the team on many occasions, but on balance he did a decent job for us. But for some reason he came in for disproportionate criticism. So what? some may say, well in my opinion the anti Moyes narrative became the justification for the appointment of Martinez being a good one. It went along the lines that Martinez was everything Moyes wasn't, following Martinez's appointment TW was full of comments like 'this will be so different to Moyes', 'Moyes would never have done this' etc . Just take a look back at the comments at the time, they neally always reference Moyes and we are still doing it. The problem with this is that it hid the reality that Martinez was not a decent EPL manager. He'd relegated his last club but this was hardly mentioned and if it was brought up it was dismissed as Martinez wasn't like Moyes. It was the perfect displacement activity to take the focus off Martinez.

Our club must not fall into this trap again and we as fans must start to look at facts and evidence when we appoint our new manager so we don't let him off the hook like we did with Martinez when he was appointed.

It won't happen until June though you can be sure of that.

You make it sound as if it went tits up this season.

The fiasco that is Martinez started visually at the end of his first season.

Last season only proved the guy was not for changing and should have been binned.

As for this season............an unnecessary disgrace

The first half of the season gave us renewed hope after some fantastic attacking play although the defensive frailties began to show again but these were exciting games to watch, even if the results were not what we deserved.

Now we are near the season's end and this latter half has seen us put in awful performances – Lukaku in particular, since he made his wantaway statement, has been dire.

This board needs to make a change asap; it will be interesting to see what kind of atmosphere we will have on Saturday.

For 'positivity' read 'bullshit' and you have the Martinez era in a nutshell. The only real difference between the two styles was Martinez insistence on possession which actually hampers our attack, though we may see the odd well-worked goal. Keeping the ball at the back doesn't increase our goal threat, it increases the threat to our goal. The league twigged this at the end of his first season and began pressing us. Martinez still hasn't twigged.

Sorry you got caught up in the hype Matt but I personally have been yearning for the day he leaves for over a year now and shall not mourn when, if ever, it comes.

Back then he was operating with a shoe string budget, twice the club nearly went into administration and yet we survived. He was forced to sell all out stars, Arteta, Rooney, Mad Dog Gravesen etc just to save the club from going under. Yet he delivered and nearly got us a trophy.

Now, with massive funds Moyes can easily deliver us the goods. We need him to reorganize our defences like before.

It is simply boring and repetitive to list continually where he has gone wrong, but the visible decline in the teams performances over two season's is quite shocking.

More alarming is that it has been allowed to happen before our very eyes, but not apparently in the eyes of the Directors who effectively run and manage the club?

Are we witnessing men of vision, who really believe we are on the cusp of something that the masses cannot see, because we are not blessed with their foresight and perception as far as Martinez is concerned, or is it simply the terrible malaise which has afflicted the club for so long now that 'change' is unwelcome in any form.

Ironically, Leicester City were roundly criticised a short time ago when the buffoon Nigel Pearson was sacked after keeping them up when all around were convinced they would be relegated from the Premiership.

Clearly, someone at that club felt that change was needed if they were to move forward and simply not settle for the status quo of existing in the Premiership.

Sorry to say, I don't think we have those people at our club?

Puts our board to shame that.

"because the 42-year-old is an amicable and engaging person,"

He's an annoying tit, who talks absolute nonsense. In the words of Chris Surton "is he mad?"

#MartinezOut

He was the right man for a team with no money and fighting relegation. That WAS us. I thank him for what he did, but he stayed 4 years too long.

He has proven that he take the champions of England and make them...mediocre. He can get sacked in Spain too. Oh and he's won....nothing.

It is time for Martinez to go, but at least in his first season he showed what could be achieved. Get the right manager and we can challenge.

Lets not forget that in 2013 going into the final 3 games we had 69 points (same as Spurs right now). It is a shame that Martinez couldn't continue that and like I said it is time for him to go, but I would argue that some of the football we have produced since he took over enables us to call Moyes dour.

After an encouraging start when he released the players from the disciplined Moyes set up to attack, he was found out towards the end of the first season and possession for the sake of it has increasingly led to slow, sterile and frankly boring football, occasionally lifted by a passionate performance. He has not been willing to adapt his approach and he has gradually lost the players and the fan base.

English football is highly regarded because of the passion rather than technical brilliance and long may it stay that way. If we had to model our football on a continental style it should be German football rather than Spanish which is is based on speed, movement and power.

As for Moyes, he made good progress throughout his tenure and his biggest weakness was a timid approach to playing the so called big teams and yes he did appear at times to put a lid on our jar but perhaps with money he might have been able to take that step forward.

More than anything, I cannot abide Martinez for the way he treats us the fans. Does he actually believe that anyone swallows his positive spin and patronising sound bites? Honest performances on and off the pitch and you will get fans behind you!

Better still - also get rid of our no mark chairman, possibly illness an excuse - as he is just also totally inept, not living in, working in the 21st. century. Surely if one of his selected leading actors, performed collectively, so poor, week in week out, action would immediately be taken, by him, not with any delay ?

2 Semi finals is nothing, we are going backwards, with all our internationals performing poorer this season, & Barkley, as an example - offering very little, & is just a shadow of the Spurs player Delli.

Kenwright - we've already wasted millions on this so called Russian star, our no marks money payment, would be nothing compared to this - action please, now regardless !!!

COYB - & give us some hope of Blue normality, against the cherries, this weekend.

In my glass half full moments, I hope & pray that the delay is due to Mr Moshiri studiously looking through all possibilities for the next manager, judging every candidate fully and carefully, before he launches bobby out of his finch farm office window and says "welcome to the best club in the world Diego/Marcelo/Manuel/Frank/Ronald" *delete where appropriate*.

It really is insane to extend the agony for us all (including Bobby - I am starting to become more concerned for the state of his mental health, with the continual shite he keeps spouting), he is done at Everton.

The deed should have been done on Saturday, and then we all move forward, getting behind one of our old guard for the remainder of the season, immediately lifting the mood and malaise hanging over us all.

Look at the internet and other sites regarding protests/chanting/booing/demonstrations - the guy invading the pitch and trying to attack bobby v Saints?! - the mood at the match for the remainder of the season is going to be terrible and only get worse, until Martinez is removed from his position.

One more thing, I know its bad currently and the majority of us have had enough, but we must aim much higher than a certain David Moyes for our next manager, for gods sake!

I struggle to understand how people can even consider him after the way he decided to leave us, plus some of the crap football he served up when he was actually comitted to us as manager..... we don't need another bottler, thanks very much, there are enough of them crossing the white line every sodding week.

Any protests on the day will be put down to Evertonians' frustrations at exit at the semi-final stage in TWO competitions. ( Roberto having become a victim of his own success having built up fans' aspirations too soon and spent too long in the Europa last season).

Of course we know it will be bullshit but that is just about the only thing this club are champions of under the Kenwright/ Martinez regime !

I think he's been more frustrating than Moyes (and he was frustrating with his dropping deep) because he could get so much right and then too much wrong.

I was thinking about this today. The heart of the midfield is the heart of the problem. Barkley and Lukaku score nearly 40 goals between them. We have really good defenders who are poorly set up. But who in our midfield is any good? Our best man there is a creaking 35 year old who made his name as a left back! The middle usually comprises of defensively moulded players or water carriers. It clearly doesn't protect the back four given how many goals we shed and it doesn't contribute to the FOR column.

From his second season, he's been unable to gel the midfield. The virtual retirement of Osman is telling (yes, yes I know I'll get pelters for that) but we just seem to have either defensive or attacking midfielders. No actual players who can do both.

Remember and don't forget he took over the Premier League Champions and fucked up.

I rest my case.

He just needs to be gone asap.

There have been a whole host of games this season that we have completely dominated and -should- have won but didn't. If you're not prepared to defend Martinez (understandably) on the grounds of what might have happened in our favour, in one game, then why attack him for might have happened against us, but didn't, in another?

Problem is who replaces him?

Do we take a chance on a potential novice (e.g. Howe)? or an old hat (Moyes)? or an expensive foreigner (Pellegrini, Bielsa)? or an "exciting" successful Premier League manager (Koeman)? or an internal candidate (Ferguson, Unsworth).

Personally, I think Moyes completely disrespected the club, the fans, and BK when he went to Manure, but how would he deal with money? If I'm honest I don't think he had much of a choice at Utd, so I'd take him back (despite previous comments, "Sir Alex" left him with nothing there and he faced the "United love in" backlash). Yes DM could have acted more gracefully, but haven't we all moved jobs to "bigger and better things"

I say give him a year with some money, and lets see where we end up. After all, we'd bite the hand off anyone who offered up 6th at the moment!! Motto: Be careful what you wish for (both as fans and managers)!

Was that the last time (Wolfsburg at home) that Howard had a blinder?

Thinking about it, we were rapier like in attack that night but perhaps it did flatter us.

Therein lies the problem with his football, it's always feast or famine. More the latter of late. Same in many of the cup games (Barnsley, Reading, Bournemouth) we'd threaten to capitulate and then get out ahead. Difference is, we're good enough to get away with it against lower league sides or if the opposition have named a weakened side.

I don't see it as a philosophy. I see it as always pig headedly putting all your money on red (pardon the analogy) every week. It's playing percentages but not how Allardyce does it.

Upshot of all this. We lose it either way and appear stuck not knowing what to do.

We look clueless and without a change this will get worse.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/Everton-chiefs-lining-up-mark-hughes-to-take-over-from-Roberto-Martinez-mirror/

I have noticed that on recent showings, especially from Barry. We've actually gone long a few times. But you're right, Lukaku doesn't suit that. He is better with the ball in front of him or with crosses in the box. He's not a hold up player although occasionally I've seem him lay it off well.

He did used to experiment with a long cross field ball from left full back position to either Del Boy or McGeady but that seems to have died a death.

I know that the new owner has got less than 50% but I think he is still calling the shots. No way will he put up with what we've all witnessed this year. He's a smart man and not going to be fooled by the 'What a manager' rubbish he's been hearing.

He can see what we all have been seeing and saying for ages. Martinez is a crap manager.

What we do not know is if he will use the power he has to remove the manager, that we await to see, but you would think and hope that he has seen enough to put Roberto out of his and our misery ASAP

There is little more to be said, in my view. The club is heading for the rocks I am sorry to say, steered by a couple of stubborn and arrogant fools. No amount of tennis balls or pointed fingers will later that.

Our best hope would be a total boycott of games and non-renewal of season tickets but, of course, that won't happen.

No way will I ever go to Goodison Park if he takes over. No way is he any better than what we have. The Stoke defence has gotten even worse than ours.

He was at Man City and, with all their millions, they soon got rid of him – and proved rightly so.

Champions of England... Premier League Champions – he had money to burn – that's why he paid £28 million for that donkey Fellaini.

What did Moyes leave Martinez then, Mike? A top 8 club with no money!!!! And just to put the top hat on it all, he shit all over our club who allowed him to stay as our manager and give him the chance at the beginning.

He never ever looked like winning any cup for us... And you want to give him another chance!?!?

Words fail me....

I reckon your too harsh in your assessment of Moyes in all fairness.

He took over an awful Everton team, and built a respected EPL side that had achieved finishes of 7th (twice) and a 6th in his last 3 years.

He may have been defensive, but again Imo id say it's much cheaper to build a solid team, rather than a successful attacking team.

Moyes purchased bargains to turn us from relegation fodder into a strong EPL side.

Give Moyes a Lukaku style striker during any of his last 5 years in charge, and we would have been in the Champions League.

During his spell at Man Utd, he may have inherited the Champions, but they were well on there way out, and no other manager could have made that squad a Championship winning side other than SAF.

We're are all there league winners now?

Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, Evans, Giggs, Anderson, Butner, Hernandez, Kagawa, Nani, Welbeck, Raphael, Fabio, Scholes, Fletcher, Lindergaard, Van Persie, and Cleverley all played during SAF's last season in charge, only Welbeck is still at the same level after leaving utd, that tells a story in itself.

They got bombed out of both domestic cups early, along with the Champions league.

Clearly Moyes had a huge task on his hands, and in signing only Mata and Fellaini, and bringing Wilfred Zaha back off loan, he stood no chance of winning anything.

I'm not saying I'm all for Moyes coming back, but I think we at least deserve to tell it like it is when speaking about him.

Or if they think he has to go, surely it is better to do it now and have a caretaker for the last games, which would give the club time to properly source a new manager. The club just seems to be drifting.