The Vanity of Idealism

Sadly, it's all unravelled rather alarmingly since April 2014 despite his best intentions.

The silence is deafening at the moment, and the board (it is extended ST deadline day remember) should surely make an announcement shortly, either backing or sacking a man and his entourage who are clearly out of their depth.

The silence from the board is deafening, they cannot say yes he will go at end of season but they they could move him on now as no further harm can be done to the team and would give the home fans something to look forward to at the last home match.

Everton to provide a guard of honour at Leicester and this is the closest Martinez will ever get to the Premier League trophy. Please sack him or walk with what dignity you have left.

I've always been of the camp to stand behind the manager and players come what may. But no more.

With Eurovision 2016 on the horizon:

"Bullshit for them, save all your bullshit for them
Bye-bye Bobby, bye-bye
Don't cry Bobby, don't cry....."

Did they get lucky!

On a positive note re Martinez. He has bought in a few potentially quality players for the future. Holgate, Henen and a few more. Would be great to see them given a chance in the first team at Everton.

Give youth a chance!

At the moment we have Martinez Misfits. Remember Busby Babes. What about Pellegrini Protégés. However, not sure about his defensive principles!

If that's true, PROVE IT!

If on the other hand your entire club are brought up to hold possession & move then players can be moved into the team much more seamlessly. One or two have come into the first team recently and performed exceptionally well compared with some of those under OFM so there nay be something in that.

However, as our first team have yet to demonstrate the skills & attitude (aptitude?) to play that game sufficiently well, that theory is in danger of sinking us if we don't start introducing pragmatism.

So, given the managers who are not yet available, given that Roberto will never resign (oh for a Kevin Keegan moment), given that we will save a few million, I do not see any reason we will get our wish.

However, it would be a wonderful statement of intent from the board to say, "Stuff it. It is only a couple of million. Go now. We will get someone better before the new season. We will not accept this any longer and we are a club ambitious enough to want to be in the top half of the league, to be in European competitions, to win something. And results first, pretty football is a bonus."

Instead he has persisted with the team he himself assembled, ultimately leaving him no argument left to claim he is the right man for our beloved blues.

Dispite what Martinez claims, we are poor to watch, especially at home, as we look void of ideas, far to slow and don't play enough genuine goal threats. Even though we don't play many attacking players, we still insist on deploying a lone striker and 2 defensive midfielders, even when were desperate for a win.

Martinez claims all this Barcelona-Cruyf-Dutch total football is his inspiration, but if he truly believes he's ever witnessed it at us or Wigan, he's not worthy of managing a Sunday league team.

Hes a nice guy but the man is deluded, he may need help.

Mr Moshiri, if he knows anything about football, must act now to save Everton FC and also his investment.

The reason is simple, he's a one (dumb) trick pony. He's long since been sussed and an Everton win will be a matter of shame for most of them.

All sport is about doing what the opponent least wants you to do but under Kenwright and Martinez we keep doing precisely what our opponent wants.

What a chairman.

This is very out of character for Everton who for the last 3 years have enthusiastically advertised pre-season friendlies by now. They have usually announced taking up the Austrian training camp for a week by now, but we haven't heard a thing.

This for me is enough proof that Martinez will be gone at the close of the season, as they can't organise a pre-season until we know who the new man is and what they require.

They follow the golden rule of having a very strong spine and they do not have a weak player. You don't win the Premier League on the back of a few good players, shame on you clown.

At other times though, I wonder whether we are all living in a ToffeeWeb land totally divorced from reality. Lyndon has set out the reality of the situation pretty well; 96% of us think RM's time is up. The majority of the pundits haven't quite said as much, but the mood music is clear.

Planning now needs to start for next season: transfers in and out; the shape of the team; tactics. If a new manager is coming, he needs to get his head around this stuff and start taking action.

We need an outbreak of decision-making.

Martinez isn't a bad guy but he is way out of his depth at Everton and so the board are being professional and waiting until the end of the season as it wouldn't be fair to hang Martinez out to dry. I genuinely think that Martinez would make an excellent scout for any club and nothing more than that.

Not one of them can take anything from this season, especially this season when things have been so open for "other" teams to challenge for Cups and European places.

In my opinion, Everton have been the greatest failure this season considering the so called best squad we've had for years available to us. Villa have been flirting with relegation for a couple of seasons where we were supposed to be coming into a golden era.

The players have in general been shit but they have been orchestrated by incompetence management.

Well done Leicester, fully deserved, it could well have been us.

My ire is however directed at his employer not the manager, infuriatingly hapless, hopeless and deluded as he is. Kenwright is the man who sought him out, employed him, extended his contract (after just one season) and who by all accounts continues to defend him.

This is Kenwright's vanity, he is in a corner not wishing to axe Martinez on several counts. Firstly because it would make his choice look like the wrong one. Secondly because it would make him look like a mug in front of his new investor Moshiri thus possibly endangering his continued position as chairman with the accompanying loss of face and train-set. Thirdly because Kenwright does not like to seen to be bowing down to fan pressure and would rather brazen it out than let the will of masses and plain common sense be entertained.

"For me the fear is not what happens after Martinez goes, but if he goes at all" – as Christine #2 wrote is how I feel but that same sentiment applies to Bill Kenwright, if he actively continues in his role at the club then I continue to fear for the future. Dark days ahead if there is not a sea change occurring this summer.

Congratulations Leicester. Unbelievable. Inspiring. It gives all us David's hope against the billionaire Goliath's.

Is there a microscopic fragment of the magic dust left unused at the King Power stadium? Let's pray there is and come Saturday it gently alights on Mr Moshiri's brow.

His eyes suddenly dilate and he turns and heads down from the Director's box leaving Bill open mouthed mid Boys Pen anecdote.

Moshiri kicks the door open and enters the changing room. In the corner Martinez is genuflecting before a neon flashing altar covered in iconography of Charles Ponzi and Bernard Madoff.

Moshiri hawls the Catalan up by his few remaining hairs, places a pair of donkey ears upon his head and proceeds to kick him mercilessly through the door, pronouncing Martinez's epitaph - "Out .... Charlatan"!

The players rush to engulf Moshiri jubilantly ..........

Just a speck is all we want Lord ..... half a speck .....

Spurs' failure to make the title go to the wire may have unwittingly given Martinez a lifeline I fear. Having guaranteed the title with two games to go, the Leicester players will no doubt have spent most of this week partying rather than focusing on the game on Saturday. Can imagine a few changes in their line up and more of an end of season party attitude – which means we may actually get a result. Had Leicester still needed to win on Saturday, I cannot imagine any other scenario than us losing.

Could the case be that BK will hand over full power when he feels the time is right for him, and Moshiri has agreed to wait in the wings until that time?

Pure speculation but just a thought.

That's why he has to go, he doesn't agree with defensive stability, and catching teams on the counter. As you say, it's called modern football. It's the way Leicester have played all season, as has Simeone, and Klopp.

That's the reason Everton have conceded so many goals this season. We're Wigan in disguise.

Aside from the politics of share ownership, the general feeling as conveyed by Lyndon is that Roberto's time here is spent and there is widespread hope that he is merely serving time before the axe falls comes season's end.

Having railed against the appointment even before it was confirmed, I share that hope but, by no means, do I see it as inevitable. Having suffered so many disappointments during Kenwright's tenure, I suspect there will be a sting in the tale. Finishing the season with a four game unbeaten run and a place in the 'top half' may be such a sting.

It is widely believed that Bill's admiration for the Catalan may see him in the 'hold' seat whilst Moshiri would 'stack' tomorrow. As others have pointed out, we know nothing of the Board Dynamic. I've reported what I've heard but whatever the source, it's just speculation.

No doubt, the judgement call will be determined by Moshiri's ambition for the Club. No change or change which involves the return of David Moyes or appointment of any other 'very ordinary' manager will show that he buys into the Kenwright 'Everton Family' ethos. Thinking on a wider plane than that will, at least, restore hope of a brighter and more exciting future.

But don't bank on it. This is Everton.

You can mark my words that Kenwright is one of us and Everton is his baby, so he would never knowingly do anything that hurts the club he loves. Yes, he made a bad choice; yes, he has been duped by Martinez, but Everton have never been a trigger happy club. We do things professionally at Everton.

Be in no doubt Martinez IS here to stay. After an insipid press conference this morning. Chairman Bill's PR machine is ticking the boxes:

Avoid awkward questions. Tick
Media pack feeding elsewhere. Tick
End of season getting closer. Tick Tick Tock.

IS THIS IT?

What has happened to people or fan power. We used to be the most vocal and exciting stadium with an electric atmosphere. Now all we do is jabber... Nice piece, Lyndon, but we all know this, feel this and are hurting. In the past it was either the reds up the M62 or that lot over the park but know it's Leicester City.

Stand up and be counted we are trying to fight this, pull us together with one aim to sack Martinez and re-build now! Join us SIGN&LOAD @adios.org.uk
The more individuals protest, the less Chairman Bill can dismiss us... mobile phones are convenient and illustrate our innovation to make our point... tennis balls are old hat and cost money!!

Your lines about it all going quiet and him escaping the axe until another season is wasted (or worse) send a shiver down my spine.

We have an opportunity on Saturday to show what the hard core supporters really feel, whilst the eyes of the sporting world are on the King Power and Leicester's fantastic achievements. Perhaps an organised and humorous protest would capture media attention, without deflecting anything away from the Foxes moment of glory.

My worry is that the earlier a new man comes in (he is coming, surely?) the better he will be prepared for when the transfer window opens in July. Both to decide on whom to keep and on whom to buy. In order to do that the new man needs to have an idea of his set-up, his preferred mode of play and the players on whom he can build his team.

If he comes in at the last moment he could well have players sold who should be kept, and vice versa, and be severely hampered in the purchasing of new players.

Martinez must go very soon and the new man whoever he is,in place by the end of this month.

A quite unbelievable comment. Evertonian or otherwise, Bill Kenwright has shown repeatedly that he is more than happy to lie to fans.

The contract offer was understandable at the time. What is not understandable is sticking with him after two hopeless seasons. This isn't about being a 'trigger happy' club. This is about stopping some serious rot. The club is going downhill fast... I don't know how anyone can possibly deny that. The reason Martinez has to go is that he has 100% proved he cannot solve our issues.

The only thing I would take you to task on is when you say this is theoretically the best squad assembled in decades. I don't believe for one minute it is. Whether this is the Martinez conundrum I just don't know but we just seem to lack even the basics.

Have we even got a midfielder who can spot a pass its all sideways and backwards? Deulofeu early on in the season hit a few beauties but since then its dried up. I will say this, when I listen to what Martinez says, I could scream. It's obvious he'll never ever change so why are we still stuck with him?

You say there's no room for sentiment. While Kenwright is around I'm afraid there is. It won't be him that sacks him. I honestly think we'll beat a celebrating Leicester, beat Norwich and Bill will think everything's hunky dory. It's not.

Too rehearsed to repeat here but when 'love' weakens your judgement, be sure a troubled times are ahead!

He absolutely puts more credence into his staff wanting to be part of the Everton culture, understanding it and taking part and adding to it. He, I believe thinks Martinez has, and has shown all the that he is fully on board with this.

He won't sack Martinez until it's too late!

I too am hoping the silence from the club is down to the powers that be waiting for the right candidate to be available in the summer, and am presuming they are waiting until the season ends to approach them.

Who do people want next ? I think Koeman would do a good job and seems to have Soton playing some good football, but there have been a lot of mediocre names bandied about in the media.

Roberto has tried his best, i, like many others, was sceptical at his appointment, straight on the back of a relegation, but his first season seemed to silence us doubters. The subsequent regression since then will surely be enough for the board to say enough is enough.

The change has to be made in good time for the new man coming in to have the full pre-season to sort out the squad and get rid of the deadwood. If this doesn't happen, we have to question what the new man is doing in charge, is he only here to rake off the tv deal millions ?

Moshiri will want a return on his investment and he won't want to depend on tv monies but on and off the field success. Like many others, I was desperate for Roberto to succeed, as I loved his first season, but two successive terrible seasons means he can't continue.

The new owner has to bring in people, both at boardroom and managerial level, who will push us into new territory and leave behind the bumbling incompetence of the present regime.

Home wins - 5

Away wins - 5

It seems to me that Roberto totally lacks any ability to self-reflect, evaluate and learn any lessons from experience.

The club cannot continue to judge managers/players/staff etc purely on their personalities or keep them employed due to misplaced loyalty, it cannot afford to allow one person to set the tone for the rest to follow, it cannot take for granted the loyalty of its supporters.

Somebody at the club has to grasp the nettle and put the club back on the path that says we are Everton FC and we are ambitious, we are not ashamed of winning and we don't care if we step on a few toes along the way. Of course we want to retain the family atmosphere, the community work and all of the other classy stuff that the club does so well, but for circa 35,000 paying customers they don't pay to watch that, they pay to watch a team of players giving 100% to the cause and hopefully winning football matches.

Anything or anyone who gets in the way of those players not being fully committed to pleasing that customer base, should be removed and replaced no matter what their position or status within the club.

Dr France reckons Everton FC has about a six year window to try and rebuild the club into a serious Premier League player, from that perspective, I can wait another one perhaps two months for the club's owners to make a decision on the future of the manager, so long as they don't replace him with another young hopeful or inexperienced boss or worse still retain the services of Roberto.

The charge sheet against Martinez is lengthy and there have been no redeeming features in his performance in recent months. He should be ashamed of how poorly his team has performed, the failure of a fitness regime which has seen an epidemic of soft tissue injuries, the failure to hold winning positions, the failure to defend set pieces, the failure to use substitutions advantageously, the failure to adapt tactics during the course of games, the lack of discipline with four players receiving red cards this season, the failure of a selection policy which saw us arrive at Wembley with so many key players injured or suspended, the failure to take on board the legitimate views of senior players such as Baines, the failure of a transfer policy which saw Naismith leave to be replaced by a player who has looked both unfit and unsuitable and last but not least his failure to acknowledge the lack of progress in a succession of nonsensical media interviews.

All this has dragged us from a club consistently competing for the top six into a club having to settle for mid table mediocrity but harbouring genuine fears that under this manager even worse lies ahead. The squad is now in need of a major overhaul with players leaving or at the end of their contract and others plainly not up to Premier League standard.

Given how poorly a relatively settled squad has gelled together this season, it is unrealistic to expect a successful transition under Martinez. One imagines the Board is aware of all the shortcomings, is cognisant of the views of the fan base and is taking steps to identify a successor. Equally there is a nagging concern that there may be disagreement among the Board on the way forward and that the club will drift through the summer rudderless in the transfer market and with a group of disaffected players looking for the fastest way out of Finch Farm.

As regards the players some of them need a kick in their rear end and reminded to start earning their money. Those messages need to come from a new manager.

Didn't Martinez marry his possession philosophy with Moyes' solidity and defensive organisation in his first season, resulting in us having our best ever premier league points haul and something like 15-16 clean sheets which was in the top 4-5 best defences in the league or better?!...

I'm certain teams like Barca, Bayern, Juve, PSG, Spurs even, keep possession yet are solid defensively and concede nowhere near as many as we do!

And he talks about looking at a long term strategy and focusing on solely playing one way and having a vision like Cruyff and yet Barcelona keep on evolving and are actually a bit more quicker and direct in their play under Luis Enrique! They're not direct in a Wimbledon of old sense, just that they play the ball forward through the zones quicker instead of a patient build up from back to midfield, left to right to open the spaces and then hit the opposition hard. They do actually try and force the issue more with their play so teams do change and evolve from their structures as I believe you need to do has football in general changes and you have to with it.

The man is a fool, an idiot and using excuses like you can't marry solidity with possession football because all he focuses on is ball retention and neglects defensive work, whether that be shape, organisation, structure, set pieces. He barely works on anything defensively and that's why we've conceded has much has we have and then he talks shit like he does to try and fool people into thinking you can't do the two and that's why we're as weak at the back as we are!

Good on him that he wants to play a brand of football on the deck but his slow, possession based game just isn't right for the Premier League. Our league is fast, up and at you, and you need to play fast with it, wether that's like Leicester or like Arsenal at their best.

I can rant on and on about why he should go, why he should be sacked but the stats, unwanted records, performances and league standings over the past 2 seasons speak for themselves and they simply haven't been good enough and he deserves the sack!

I just hope Mr Moshiri is more hard nosed than he looks and puts his foot down with the likes of Kenwright & Elstone and demands that Martinez leaves at the end of the season so he can bring his own man to start a new, fresh chapter with us, because I tell you now, we sure need it!

As the days go by this Moshiri deal has me slightly concerned, as to his true intentions. His first statement to the press was that he wanted to make sure the younger stars stayed at Everton and he would also concentrate on the building of a new ground or revamping the old ground.

Now if the press are to be believed then both Lukaku and Stones will be gone in the summer, and some are even speculating that Barkley may leave too. Now nothing concrete has happened but if 2 or all 3 leave in the summer, what credibility would Moshiri have.

I havent heard anything over a possible ground move or a revamping of the old ground.

I wrote an article a few weeks back saying time to take control Mr Moshiri, and I am still waiting to see signs that he has come here with a vision for this club. When he bought 49.9% of shares, Kenwright said he had been talking to him for about 18 months over investing. If he knew Moshiri was close to acquiring 49.9% why did he let the Americans carry out due diligence on the club?

" if the press are to be believed"

Well, they're not, so let's not take much notice of them, eh?

Moshiri is no doubt biding his time, I imagine he's waiting for the end of the season or until some clause, which we now nothing about, in Martinez' contract comes into play. I believe he has a plan and will get on with it when his time is right.

During RM's second pre season we had nothing sorted until mid July before facing Celta Vigo at Prenton Park (the one thing to take from that was buying Nolito, which we didn't) and those legends Padderborn. Lost both, obviously. There was an Ossie testimonial thrown in there at the end too.

By the looks of it he's staying and we'll deserve what we get for match day passivity from here on out.

I have today returned from a long trip abroad and I can tell you Leicester is the only team on people's minds; the number of Leicester shirts to be seen is remarkable.

Everton? Nowhere to be seen – after all we are just a bottom-half team making up the numbers.

The sooner we refer to him as OFM the better.

I want Martinez gone as much as most but be careful what you wish for – Martin O'Niell the new bookies favourite. God, I hope not.

Martinez is obviously trying to talk his way out of a sacking by clinging to his beliefs but we all know it's bullcrap. Some of the players seemed to be under a cloud in the last few months and speculation will single out the likes of Stones, Barkley and Lukaku if only because of the money angle but there is also the perpetual deadbeats that should be put out to pasture, Osman, Gibson, Pienaar, and arguably a few others.

If a new manager is brought in there is no guarantee he will improve things but the change has to be made.

Fitting tribute that the under achievers have to give a guard of honour to the over achievers yet very worthy champions.

I fear we will be stuck with Bobby Baffoon unless the protests contain thousands of fans and not just a few hundred.

I really hope the rumours of his demise after the Norwich game are true, then we can all look forward to a new era starting in the summer.

To hear some of Martinez quotes this season actually makes me fear for his mental health. We have a complete gobshite as our coach,the kind we would cross the road to avoid having the misfortune to talk to. I would respect him of he had some humility and accepted his role.

Even Ferguson had no problem privately admitting mistakes or that he didn't do everything right, whilst maintaining a hard public image. Martinez pride has blinded him to reality. I would actually find some respect for Billy if he comes out and says honestly we liked RM but we needed better results so he's going.

Now because the wind has changed and no doubt the constant, Roberto Out campaign led by the Echo and the armchair supporters of Everton. Hindsight is an easy gift, Lyndon; foresight is much harder a gift.

By the way, I still support Martinez for one more season. He has put a great deal of effort into a development programme one more season to see if this comes to fruition. Being retired, I have the time to follow our young players and their development, a new manager from outside the club would more likely abandon this and just spend too much money on players, who are probably no better than what we have.

On that, I say farewell.

Just hope the powers that be are reading this.

Those statements are just so insane, it's almost as if he's having a laugh at Jamie's expense (or ours).

He hasn't changed since day 1, the same way of playing the same team line ups (when available) and the same unfit players.

He even managed to do the exact same thing when playing Palace (the only time he made unforced changed and fucked it up twice, both times 3-2).

I haven't renewed and will not (mostly due to having a young one) and I doubt I will return to the fold for some time now.

Thanks Bobby, you have been the only manager in decade to make me fall out of love with Football (admirably assisted by Sky).

I've sold my Norwich ticket as Ill be in Poland on the lash, I was initially gutted about missing the last game of the season now I'm relieved I have an excuse.

I see Bill as the biggest threat to Everton FC in it's history. Martinez will be gone eventually when we are even furher behind the middle placed clubs, but Kenwright has always been and always will be a selfish parasite. The decay will continue.

Like many thousands of Blues I have loved Everton from childhood, lived and breathed the Blue and White through good and bad times, mainly the good, until now, helped to clear snow from the pitch more than once before underneath heating was introduced, went door to door selling club pools coupons, travelled countrywide to see us play, couldn't eat for days after we lost and went ballistic when we won. so to be treated as being less than a third class nonentity by those in their Ivory Towers is a bitter and insulting experience for all Evertonians, who are the salt of earth, GO NOW

Many youngsters become disillusioned when they cannot get a good first team chance and then are sent on loan here,there and everywhere. Everton have had their share who have moved on and rarely blossoming into what might have been a big career with a big club and generally fading into a lower league.

However, there are exceptions as we all know with some Leicester players right now. Did Everton not let Dier go to Spurs? It is the ideal time to start some Everton youngsters such as Dowell, McAleny, Pennington and of course Galloway if only for the Leicester game.

If Bill were seriously contemplating letting Roberto go he could easily do it now which would give home more time to court a successor and would encourage the reluctant season ticket holders to actually renew (the extension of two days to the early bird is a sign that many are reluctant).

Bill could be swamped by the whole 30,000+ plus home fans screaming for Bobby's head, the soft dope would just grin and put his arm around Moshiri and keep whispering, "What a manager!!!"

Strangely enough, I just don't think the decision is in his hands any more. Don't know why I think that?

I hope they prove me wrong and we can usher in a new era of....anything better really.

This article by Lyndon is expressed in terms that a majority of fans would liked to have done but more eloquently and to the point, and without the vitriol and anger that some of us have written, due to the anger from poor results and lack of backing from the Dictator, sorry the chairman of Everton F.C.

Like other supporters I would like to thank Lyndon for this article that when reading it, it explains exactly what is wrong at the club in a rational manner.

I believe that a new manager should be brought in as soon as possible as taking a look at the 22 players listed in the first team squad we could be loosing, by getting rid of the deadwood and players who may want to leave, up to 8-10 players before the start of next season.

This would be difficult for any manager coming in to try and form a team and squad with players away on holiday and international duty .

I do not believe for 1 min that a compensation package is a stumbling block, as even having a billionaire as a backer and with the extra sky monies coming in, a few million in compensation is not going to put Everton into dept. As other people have put it ,the stumbling block is our Dictator, sorry Chairman and the sooner Mr Moshiri takes control as a majority shareholder, the better off Everton F.C. can become.

We need a new manager as soon as possible.

1st there was the unsuccessful 'If Davy goes I go', he went I stayed. Then one on a windy rain swept freezing cold also poorly supported at Bloomfield Rd because the Cat had dropped Alex Young. I like to think that little demo caused the Cat to restore the 'Vision' to his rightful place in the team so I'll mark that down as a success.

I shall be watching in hope that today's fans show more fighting spirit than at our recent game.

I've long described Roberto as an ideologue who simply does not do pragmatism. My take has always been that you only have to listen and read his own declarations to recognize: this man is not for changing.

His interview in the company of Carragher and King once again reinforced that. He denigrates and ridicules teams that have at their core the most basic essentials of football: solid defence, high fitness levels, strong team spirit, with clearly defined roles and objectives for individual players and the collective team.

Teams adhering to such principals, Roberto attempts to convince us, take a short term view of what is needed to succeed, whereas his 'jam tomorrow' strategy will guarantee continued success in the long term. I wonder if the supporters of Athletico Madrid and Leicester subscribe to that view?

In truth, all he spouts reveals how counter-intuitive his 'philosophy' is to be a genuine success in football.

With Moshri's investement and the windfall of the latest bumper TV deal, the summer of 2016 is going to be absolutely critical for Everton. It will determine what kind of club we are and the ambitions we hold for the future.

For me, Martinez's position is now untenable. He should not be entrusted with the transfer kitty in the summer. He should not be responsible for pre-season training. He should not be managing the side into the 2016-17 season.

Some in this thread have mentioned the silence from the boardroom. On the one hand, I can understand the resentment, but that has more to do with 'fairness.'

By that I mean – given the deadline of early bird discount for season ticket purchase – the buying public should be allowed to make an informed decision on whether to buy or not. If they knew Martinez was/was not going to be the manager next season, they can then make a reasoned choice. No such information has been forthcoming from the club.

On the other hand, I personally am not too perturbed by Mr Moshri's (in particular) silence. Whilst some have claimed insider knowledge as to the arrangement he has with BK, in truth absolutely nobody has a true insight into his vision for the club beyond the few words he spoke before the Chelsea quarter-final.

That said, what he does or does not do about RM will clearly inform us what to expect under his stewardship.

Let's hope he gets it right.

Don't know about soul searching but it's soul destroying being a hard nosed fan of our once-great club. I say once-great club as now it is just a caricature of what it once was. If I didn't have the allegiance of 40 years of watching the blues and was a newish supporter, there is no way I would have renewed my season ticket. As it is, there is no hope for me, but for others they are already stating they wont set foot in Goodison Park with Martinez as manager and no one can blame them either.

This board/manager are slowly sucking all the life and hope out of the club with their lack of ambition. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum are just words to them. In fact they even took it off our logo until fan pressure made them put it back on. It means nothing to them.

Any top club would have got rid of Martinez months ago. We just accept mediocrity and the excuse to accept mediocrity us "we are Everton we don't do things like that, we are better than that, kopites do that"... Well check the record books my friends and see which club actually wins things.

A club who is supposedly above protesting or the club who acts when things aren't right.....a club with high standards. Ffs as much as it pains me to say it, our motto fits in much more with the RS ideals than it does with us. In fact we couldn't be further from our motto even if we tried. Pathetic from top to bottom from all who run/play for Everton.

Gone are the days when Everton attacked on both sides of the field, when not having a goal scorer, prevented Everton from finishing in the top 4.

Positive: that Martinez has not been given a vote of confidence from the board?

Negative: the silence from the boardroom is deafening.

Positive: the likely incumbent is currently engaged with his present employers. Pellegrini?

Negative: the managers that are available will be enticed elsewhere through lack of action from the board?

However, we don't actually know what's going on, and (me included) have resorted to speculation.

The joys of being Evertonians!

Moshiri will speak when he has something to say.

Bill is very loyal and it will be hard for him to sack a man he clearly has "time for".

However, Roberto will be sacked because he needs to be and we move on - right Bill?!

I wish I had some of the general positivity that Roberto has in my life, for I have never witnessed a self belief like this man.

At the end of the day he came to us to make us better and has failed over a period of 3 years were as other managers and teams have showed progress during the same time scale.

His general attitude in refusing to learn is appalling to say the least. He's a nice man but talks a lot of nonsense and we need to thank him and say goodbye.

Brilliant article, Lyndon...

As a manager, if one of my staff is off sick and I promote someone to that role its conceivable that when they return they want their job back and the understudy will stand down.

However if that person is not performing we usually go thru the process of a performance review and guide them back to the level of performance we need. As a case in point I think he was fair to Tim Howard, unfortunately his performances didn't improve.

It seemed as though he was becoming a scapegoat for all the goals being conceded without really asking the question why?

Sometimes managing people is about preserving and maintaining the culture, some workplaces can be toxic for many reasons. The manager has to accept responsibility, when his subordinates are not performing its up to him to address the problems. A good manager does this with little fuss or ceremony and finds a way to a win-win solution. You cant be perceived as being inconsistent or wishy washy saying one thing then contradicting yourself the next.

I have no idea how Martinez manages the players, how he discusses tactics and players' form, what he says to the likes of Stephen Pienaar who battles back to fitness gets one game and is never seen again. How he manages a player like Mirallas – a player capable of turning the games – yet chooses not to play him for weeks and then just a few minutes. It would seem that Barry and McCarthy are untouchables along with Lukaku unless injured or suspended. I doubt any of these players would be high on Leicesters wanted list. Vardy is an Ian Rush type all pace and guile; I doubt they need a battering ram centre forward with the control and first touch of a crippled donkey.

This season we have witnessed some great football only to fall on our sword with poor defensive structures, as pointed out from other subscribers we have a pool of talent not playing as a team. If Martinez came out and said we are going to be hard to beat as a team, we will play the game as the situation dictates, if we need to park the bus that's what we will do, if we go gung ho we will still have an eye on defensive duties, we will play the ball over the top if we need to, we will play a high tempo game when the situation arises. The days of playing off a single song sheet need to go we need an album of songs to sing, whistles to blow, drums to beat.

If Martinez takes a more flexible approach to his rigid philosophy he may be on to something. I cant see it though, so if he cant bend with the wind he will eventually be blown away. Sooner than later eh?

There's been various references to the very recent interview of Martinez by Jamie Carragher and the point in that is that Martinez ACCEPTS his defeats but WILL NOT change. You can all but hear the listening Carragher's jaw drop when he heard him say that.

The article is here: Roberto Martinez speaks to Jamie Carragher: You can't manage a club and think 'I've got to win or I am losing my job'

For a so-called professional manager, this intransigence amounts to deliberate repetitive gross negligence yet he's still allowed to continue, all the while when other managers have shown that three years is far longer than necessary to vastly improve without mega-spending: cue Leicester, Spurs (although they've also recently wasted 㾶s of millions admittedly), West Ham, Southampton, Bournemouth and Watford...

Just what part of that cannot be understood by the board amazes me.

In fact, I reckon if Martinez had been Leicester's manager this season, they'd have gone down but still he'd be talking like they were 'potential' winners, such is his delusion these days!! It's written in the skies, mate, just look up and see that every silver-lining (over Goodison) has a cloud these days, and that its ALL down to you!!

Nice enough guy but simply not wired up right, methinks!! (For Goodison, lately, see Fawlty Towers... but at least Manuel was funny!!!)...

"His expounding of the merits of dynamic, possession-based football played by exciting, young and versatile players with an emphasis on attack was like music to the ears of Evertonians..."

That's probably the most depressing thing. Expounding those merits still excites me, that's what we want. Yet the reality is so far away from that, and is seemingly continuing to move further away from that, it's untenable.

Martinez, for all his faults, still has an FA Cup to his name and with a shit team.

Just think about that – beat a top team in the final with all their millions.

Moyes on the other hand got us to the final against Chelsea in 2009. We were WINNING 1-0 and still got beat.

The moral of the story is on the day against formidable opponents Martinez's shit team never conceded.

And Moyes's boss defence conceded 2 after being in a winning position.

Goes to say on the day Moyes team our team could not and would have not beaten the so-called big teams.

The fact is we need to ensure that our feelings and disillusionment with Martinez continue to be aired lest someone at the club (should they be paying attention) believes it's now safe to announce that he'll be there next season. Lyndon's article perfectly describes were most of us now stand on the Manager's future. We hope he doesn't have one – at least not with us!

I don't know whether I'm right but I do get the feeling – not from any major indication – but from a number of smaller signs that the decision is made. I believe (and hope) that in a suitable decent period after the final game (say a week?) an announcement will be made that "by mutual agreement the services of.... thanks him for the amazing foundations laid to take club forward ... wish him every success blah blah. "

With the couple of £ million he will trouser no one should feel sorry for him. Any pity should be saved for our long-suffering fans on whom he has inflicted only massive and increasing despair.

If that announcement does happen it will mean that Moshiri has prevailed over Kenwright and its time for Bill to give up his beloved but ultimately selfish hobby and allow the club to shake off his amazing technicolor dreamboat and get real with some ambition.

Should there be any doubt remaining in the minds of Moshiri et al – if the fly past occurs at the Norwich game can we please have a unanimous round of dignified and sustained applause.

There are apparently those who take the old fashioned view that fans – like children – should be seen but not heard. To them I would say this: we are "customers" who invariable don't have a voice and increasingly so in the Kenwright era. So get real – It's time to be heard while the message still has meaning!

I think the club are doing this the right way. Wait for the end of the season to allow Roberto to exit with some dignity, possibly "by mutual consent". A new guy could not achieve anything with only 3 games to go and it wouldn't be the best of starts if we lost them!!

It is likely that the board is well down the path of choosing the new manager and possibly meetings have already taken place but if the new guy is currently in work we can't very well say anything about it. With the stick Roberto has been taking the board would surely have stamped on it by saying he was staying put if indeed that was the intention – unwarranted speculation is harmful to the club, players, team and prospective new players and they would not allow it to continue if Roberto was going to remain.

Ignore the press and the bookies as it is clear from the vast number of names mentioned by them that they haven't got a clue. None of them knew about Moshiri and they kept telling us that the Americans were buying us.

Why would we appoint O'Neill who is not a young man now and has no record of success in the Premier League? The same applies to so many who have been mentioned where there are very good reasons why they are totally unsuitable. We can play with the big boys now so the CV of the next manager needs to be different from either "old and past it" or "young but unproven".

Wait until after the Norwich game – that is when something will happen.

I just wanted to let you know what a fantastic, level-headed article this was. Thank you and keep up the great work.

Nice suggestion Jim Bailey to send the article to BK but the way he has treated the fans lately I fear that he will just wipe his arse with it. Nevertheless, this type of message need to be stated regularly by Evertonians. It looks like being a war of attrition unfortunately.

Then I watched David Unsworth speaking about the end of Under-21s season. Refreshing attitude, realistic, enthusiastic – everything you want to hear. You can just feel how good it must be for those young players to work with him.

A world of difference.

The points that came over most to me were: a) the lack of a plan B that other managers seem to have when their grand vision isn't working out; which sums up the 'vanity' of the title, and: b) the absolute silence from the board. Opinion is divided. Either it is because his sacking is already decided and will be announced at the end of the season or after this June 1st compensation date rumoured, or they are riding the storm and putting enough time between the Derby disgrace and now, so the protests fade out. I hope for the former and deeply fear the latter.

Out of interest, and off topic – so apologies in advance – I've looked at the 2014-15 results again, as I wanted to know the exact date my faith in Martinez ended. We had a very modest start, with frustrating draws with Leicester and Arsenal; lost 3-6 at home to Chelsea in that ridiculously open game, got an away win at West Brom – followed by a series of draws, unimpressive wins against lower opposition and several defeats against the big boys. However, it was December 20th that did it for me. Although it was an away game, our 0-3 defeat at Southampton was very poor in quality and belief and was followed by consecutive defeats against Stoke, Newcastle and Hull – which I remember left almost all of us in absolute fear of relegation. Only really from March 15th did we cobble together 5 out of 6 decent wins to ease up the table – although no higher, when we lost 3 of the last 4 to Villa, Sunderland and Spurs, with only a win at West Ham giving us any joy in May.

Last season was really a right shambles, and our mini-Great Escape put on a gloss that kept Martinez in his job. It had even slipped my mind how lousy that season was. The fact that this year has been remarkably similar (other than being worse at home and never quite approaching as close to the bottom as we did at times last season) – surely makes in clear that any fan (or board member) who thinks any change is likely next season with this clown in charge, is sadly deluded.

Enough is enough!

Kenwright can't or won't see it but hopefully Moshiri will.

Ranieri has said that the style of play Leicester play is not what he would normally coach. But he soon realised that the players he had could not carry out that style. So basically he let them get on with a style that they could.

The end result proving dividends.

Phil Williams (3):

"I still believe Martinez has brought us some of the most enjoyable football we have seen in decades."

Are you on drugs? The last two seasons I have hated going to the match as we are so BORING. Martinez's football is BORING. Pass, pass, pass x 575. I'll reword it for you:

"I still believe Martinez has brought us some of the most boring football we have seen in decades."

Far more accurate.

#MartinezOut

MARTINEZ AND KENWRIGHT OUT!!!

If Martinez is still here at the opening of the transfer window then, yeah, the article and some of the sentiments above apply. Until then, we should trust our legal team to understand the contract that they drafted for El Clown, with specific regard to understanding how the reduce and mitigate the pecuniary obligations we owe him.

Moshiri is ex-PwC; pounds, shillings and pence.

Remember Roberto's early rallying "Sin Miedo" – to play without fear? He knew what was needed, but three years later his side walked out to Wembley with greater stage-fright than any side the defeatist Davey Moyes put out. The right intention was there but the ability isn't.

People at the club know this and we will all be able to look forward to a new manager for next season.

There's one last chance for fans this season to make our feelings known... if what I read about the tactics to dilute the spirited protest after the game against AFCB were true, that's awful, and perhaps symptomatic of the current regimes "respect" for the fans.

Nice touch Howard is blaming the players and absolving the management too..what a farce.

Good job we're all fully paid up mugs.

I was one of those who were encouraged by his first 10 months but I am in complete accord with Lyndon's OP. I still find myself cringeing when people say he has ruined the club or that he is a complete joke. I just can't stomach hyperbole even when I understand the underlying emotion.

Excellent read.

However, Roberto is going nowhere. Everything he says and everything the board does not say gives me that opinion.

I believe he will be with us at least until Christmas. I want him gone, but I've already come to accept that he will not get sacked unless we are in the bottom 3, unfortunately. The plus (?!?) side is the rate we are going we may be in the bottom 3 before Christmas so he might go earlier!!

I suppose an equivalent piece on the even bigger obstacle to improvement that is our chairman would be entitled "The vanity of the sentimentalist." For make no mistake, ours is a club that has rotted from the head.

I remember last season winning 3-1 against QPR, the play was so boring that the crowd were clearly annoyed even though winning.

"An ambulance".

Welcome to Kenwright's Everton.

1. Overseeing a gradual but inexorable decline for two years without doing anything to change it.

2. Tactical rigidity with no plan B making it easy for opposing coaches to plan against us.

3. Bizarre substitutions/non-substitutions

4. Poor transfer dealings with loads of duds and the few good players greatly overpriced

5. Failure to develop our young first teamers and bring through any of our promising Academy players.

6. Failing to create a good team atmosphere and publicly belittling players.

7. Not having the players in a reasonable degree of fitness and conditioning.

8. Embarrassing the club with his weird interview comments.

9. Seemingly deteriorating the backroom and medical staff set-up.

10. Rubbish pre-seasons including not even being there for one of them.

It seems a no-brainer for a responsible board to change the management but with Moshiri being so new and having a hands-off reputation, and BK being so ill, is it likely that anything will change? Worrying.

Just like the turgid football he serves up for us every match at Goodison. We need a reset – the club and it's support are completely downtrodden. I for one cannot take much more. I'm hoping that the rumours he's gone after the Norwich game are true.

Would have been a good read if it wasn't so depressingly accurate.

The game at the King Power is probably just what Martinez didn't want, as the comparisons in fortunes will be there in the nation's gaze. I'm sure he would have preferred two more "Bournemouth " games to slip quietly under the radar, with little fuss.

Our want-away wannabees will look on enviously at the rewards for teamwork and playing on the break.

Others may be questioning their chances of playing in the Euros after this poor season domestically. Our fans and board members will also be starkly reminded(if they have forgotten!) of the inability of this incumbent to break into the top 4.

I hope that the board are simply doing things with dignity and will remove the manager in due course, in the close season. If nothing happens, I see a difficult time for us, as I can't see many players of note wanting to join our little "journey", but I can see several wanting to leave it.

This has been a 'Project' for RM.

That a great club like Everton have had to endure this is staggering.

It's Mr Moshiri who holds the future of EFC in his hands now. As much as I think your article is well written and analyses Martinez and his role in the last three seasons, my view is that Kenwright should be the target more than Martinez.

He is the one who has kept him, through mounting evidence that we would not get anywhere the top six, let alone the top four. Like a lot of other fans, I thought Martinez in his first year brought a breath of fresh air into the club. Second season, I thought there were reasons that he should be given more time because of injuries and suspensions, but this season, we have lost our way.

What did it for me though was his response to Baines, on top of the increasingly worrying league form, and my view is that he should have gone before the semi.

But to focus on Martinez as the cause doesn't do it for me. The cause has been Kenwright in keeping him; culminating in the infamous "What a manager" plus the scene of the hands round Mr Moshiri. Unedifying to say the least.

For what it's worth, I was told that the Board met on Saturday morning at a hotel in Liverpool. The name of the hotel was Jury's and they arrived quite late at the match. I believe the lad who told me.

The point to me, is what Mr Moshiri will do. Having looked at the set up and been told by his rep, what goes on in the board and what plans there are (were) for taking us forward.

It is Mr Moshiri's call now. It would seem to me that he won't do things rashly and he isn't in the habit of giving millions of his money away, especially to projects that are unlikely to see a positive result for him and the club.

If he thinks that Martinez will take us forward at the desired pace, then he must see something in Martinez that we don't, or he's been blagged by Kenwright' effusive support. If it's the latter, then buying my season ticket might consign me to more of the same and has been based on unsound logic. (It's happened before!) But I think he will do things in the right manner and tell R/M that he has appreciated all he's done for the club; but we need to move on.

I think he will have a list of managers ready for interview, once the last match has been played. I don't think he want's to see disruption if it's unnecessary, as he'll want to keep the players who will provide a new manager with something to work with.

I agree very much with Patrick Murphy (#56) that we have a short space of time to get things right before the door slams in our face. I seem to remember the major shareholder saying that he would like to get to know the club better before he brought his plans for the club before the board and the shareholders. I'm sure it was in his piece in the programme.

So I'm waiting to see what happens when the season finishes. For the Board to bring in the best manager that they can attract to the job... nothing less will do.

His experience managing Catania in Italy became a defining one. He said of it: “At first I always wanted to attack. With time I learnt the best ways to think how to win is in your defensive balance.”

Unfortunately Martinez shows zero signs of being able to adapt his managerial style despite the outcomes it produces. This is why he's never going to improve and rise above mediocrity.

I'm sure he will be shown the door after the season finishes, but just to make sure lets ensure that we all protest at the Norwich game.

The people who read TW and can email Bill Kenwright have got it wrong. Mr Moshiri needs to read this article – he's the one who should be made to feel that he his now in charge.

Football changes very quickly, and it's why this next appointment, once Martinez, leaves has got to be the right one. Liverpool were treading water, and in the space of 8 months, a new manager has taken them to two cup finals, whilst Martinez, hails two semis?

We need a winner, something we haven't had at our great club, for a very long time.

Moshiri has not put any money into the club yet. He has paid directors for their shares but he hasn't "sunk" any money into the club, up to this point.

Hopefully that changes.

I don't know how to put my post in summary but all this talk of not 'the Everton way' and we are better than that and kopite behaviour really does grind my gears.
It is the Everton way and it friggin works too

I have said this before, Lyndon your perception on what it means to be a Blue is outstanding to say the least.
Finger on the pulse and you state your case perfectly.

Bravo

No it should be cancelled and leave us in peace to have our own demonstration to Mr. Moshiri and his board member that Martinez has to go and we need to treated with some dignity, something that Billy Liar has never shown to us supporters.

If any major decision is left to that phoney then we are truly on the way out as a top club.

In fact, we came tantalizingly close – tantalizingly close – to two finals this season and at times during his tenure we have played some beautiful football. Nobody sang about the School of Science being back during Moyes's tenure.

The fact is that, when Everton played the way many fans now say they want us to play – teutonically organized at the back, deadly on the counter – what they are really saying is bring back David Moyes. Many of those same fans could not wait to see the back of Moyes and had nothing but contempt for his style of play.

It's not like Martinez won't let his teams play counter-attacking football when he needs to. We have given both Manchester United and Southampton, among others, object lessons in the art of the counter-attack.

If a more experienced, significantly more tactically expert manager can be signed, fine. But the names I have seen bandied about so far – O'Neill, Hughes, Moyes again, Pearson, Howe and so on; please!

In another season, the plane with the banner on the tail would be back in the grey sky over Goodison yet again. I would sooner stay with Martinez than most of the managers on the bookies' short-list. I've heard a lot about false dawns recently. Maybe this season is the darkest hour before the sunrise.

Unfortunately for Martinez, he has other issues. The attacking football has suffered with the drop in confidence of the players, due to the results that poor defending brings.

And then there's the endless bullshit he spouts.

So, it's nice to hear a contrary view, but I can't say I agree with it completely.

I think he has done well with the Academy too, and brought young players on but I think his weaknesses have been found out now.

I certainly agree with you Peter,that I don't want to see Moyes back, or O'Neill come waltzing in...then waltzing out just as quickly. when he loses interest.

We need a top class manager who can build the solid foundations to begin the road back to the top.

And if you want to know what can happen when you just accept things as they are with the hope that someday it will improve, just look at Villa. They went from being challengers for Europe at the start of each season, along with us, to now being relegated.

Once the rot sets in, it's very difficult to reverse it. That's why this summer is so vital and the new owner must let it be known that this is unacceptable at this club and appoint a quality manager, not with a goal of finishing top half or any of that. The stated goal should be that Everton are here to win the league.

I just watched Barkley Lennon Lukaku McCarthy Cleverley Stones and Gibson put in another half-arsed performance. Nobody seems to be calling for their heads.

We should always look for better players and better management but to change like for like out of ennui or disappointment is just ludicrous. Yes let's put Marky Sparky No-Mark Hughes in there he'll sort them out! Everyone on this site would be protesting by his third match in charge.

For Martinez, to get a team playing the way he wants, I think he would have to start with managing the kids, and have a ten year plan, for when they reached adulthood.

His football is flawed, and too many players on the pitch are isolated, and lack real belief, in what they are being asked to do.

All very virtuous, I'm sure, but ultimately flawed reasoning.

Yes, we came 'tantalizingly close' to two finals this season, only to blow it with poor preparation, tactics, selection, substitutions and in-game management.

All the above failings have been on view virtually every week as the league table shows for 2 seasons now.

The times during RM's tenure we have 'played some beautiful football' are extremely infrequent and rarely sustained over 90 minutes. List if you will from this season alone the games, or merely the passages within a game, when Everton has played 'beautiful football.

I have to go back to the Chelsea game at Stamford Bridge when I was last hugely impressed by the team ... and twice we blew a winning position to only draw 3-3.

As to other points, nobody sings about the School of Science under Roberto any more either and haven't done so for some months.

Fans calling for the team to be 'teutonically organized at the back, deadly on the counter' is a sensible desire to see the most basic of football tenets return to Everon.

Why you, Peter, make the leap from that to assume the majority of fans want to 'bring back David Moyes,' I'm not quite sure.

In ridiculing the names of potenial replacements being 'bandied about,' you do realise (or ... maybe you don't..?) that posters were responding to latest betting odds or tabloid rumours and most were opposed, proposing marquee manager names as alternatives.

Given the state of the club and team performance over 2 years, questioning and speculation over the manager's position is inevitable. You're swimming against the tide trying to suppress it.

To go on to claim @ 169 that 'the players never seem to take the kind of flack that Kenwright and Martinez does' is simply false in the extreme. Not one of them has escaped some kind of criticism Some frequently have entire threads dedicated to their ineptitude.

Just read today's match thread against the newly crowned champions and see how much grief and scorn is being directed at the players.

There is LIVE EVIDENCE disproving your claim that
'nobody seems to be calling for their heads.'

Err, Peter. Yes they are.

As I said in my opening, all very virtuous of you Peter. Everton were richly rewarded in virtuously sticking by HK1, as were Manure in the early years of Fergie.

Roberto is not, and never will be, in that class of football manager.

No romance. No poetry. No flowery speech of 'the dark before the dawn' is going to change that.

Roberto Martinez's position as manager of Everton FC is no longer tenable.

Worry about and question the candidates the board interview once the position is vacant, rather than sneer at the names from bookies' odds lists and tabloid rumours.

If there is no such perambulation around Goodison (mirroring the lethargy with which recent performances have been marked), then there would surely be an equal outburst of disgust from the fans for the lap is as much for the team to show their appreciation of the support as the other way round.

I fear that, if Martinez is still there, then the atmosphere will not be a good one. The Board should therefore do the right thing and let him go, "by mutual agreement", with a modicum of dignity for surely NO ONE deserves to be fed to the lions – no matter what we may feel.

I heard Pep, say, after they played Juventus, this season, that his team were very pedestrian. Sound familiar? And Munich, have got a lot more good players than Everton, have.

I think that to get a team, to play in this style, has got to be learned from a very early age. How many teams, have we ever seen master the art of total football? It's the exception, to the rule, for those that do.

I came away from one game earlier in the season, and my dad, told me to shut up, because I kept repeating myself. I kept saying that I think Martinez, is a youth development coach, and it's possible that he might have to go back to that level, and work himself up, (instead of us up) with the same club, if he is to ever achieve his philosophy?

I always pay attention to what you say; do you ever listen to me?