An open letter to Roberto Martinez

Going back to last night, the second half in particular, it was shameful the lack of fight, the lack of pressure on the ball, for a team that just cannot defend any type of ball in the air the amount of times we didn't even bother to try stopping the cross was unreal, and players endlessly turning their backs when trying to stop shots.

There were way goo many players out there tonight that didn't do the blue shirt justice, who let themselves and the fan's down but not least the manager with yet more bizarre decisions.

Why start Deulofeu?. A man who worryingly seems to run out of gas after 45 minutes on a gamely basis.

Coleman replacing Stones at 2-1 down? Why not just start with him and drop Stones?

Kone?? Just why at all? Seriously is this man better than Naismith??

I haven't even bothered listening to Martinez since the game finished, what's the point, no doubt more gobbledygook garbage, blaming luck and phenomenal performances.

Roberto, your having great luck still being in a job, after last season's atrocity mate!

There's nothing at all left about Everton that I recognize or to be honest, even like anymore.

I'd never claim that David Moyes was a world beater, he wasn't, but the foundations built on a solid well drilled well organized defence with team spirit has totally long long gone...

Imagine Martinez with that group of players in 2004-05? He'd have got them relegated.

Moyes at least learnt after a bad season not to make the same mistakes again and in general his following season was greatly improved.

This man here now is so out of touch it is unreal, this philosophy, the insane over the top superlatives on the younger players is frankly killing the likes of Stones dead, whereas Moyes would be telling Stones to keep the game as simple as just defending while your going through a bad spell, Martinez insists on this ridiculous flawed philosophy.

I don't think anybody knows where we go from here now anymore, there's certainly nothing more this team and manager can achieve that will save this season, forget the FA Cup, we won't be winning that with a team of experienced bottlers. The funny thing is, I don't think that many people even care anymore.

What will the atmosphere at Goodison be like next Wednesday night against Newcastle?
Same old same old under this manager and group of flashy failures.

The core of the club and heart of the club is slowly evaporating on a weekly basis, and the connection between fans and players is growing further and further apart.

Every time Martinez opens his mouth with superlatives like: "Gareth Barry is one of England's greatest ever players" I think' Lionel Hutz...

Agree with you Neil; time for him to go...

Pardew would have been ideal... no nonsense and with this squad he could make it work.

Leave a lot of space at the end because I think another 40 odd thousand others may well want to sign it too.

Martinez has helped himself in no way by heaping ridiculous lavish praise on the young players who have recently started looking like they believe their own hype.

John Stones is not the best centre-half in Europe, Roberto, he's composed on the ball but he's got miles to go before he's even close to actually being a good reliable defender, something which he'll never improve on under your tutelage.

Martinez has been his own worst enemy in many ways but his rigid stubbornness with what is clearly a flawed philosophy rankles the most, teams worked out at the end of his first season how to stop Everton is just to press our defence into mistakes which we do on a weekly basis, Swansea the perfect example on Sunday.

I'd do what I could to get Mark Hughes in here, he's a man that won't let players get too big for their boots, he can organize a defence, and as we've seen with better footballers at Stoke, his teams can play pretty decent football. He'd have players of that ilk at Everton too!

We are sorely lacking leadership from right throughout the club, someone needs to come in and shake us out of this bubble of malaise we are in.

It won't take a miracle worker to do it, just a man with a bit of bottle and authority.

How can you learn without changing?

He shouldbut unfortunately won'tbe sacked and lacks the class and decency to walk.

Target 3 wins and 2 draws in the PL.

What a waste.

You can't argue that Martinez has achieved something in making Everton one of the most entertaining teams to watch in the premier league, but that's largely because he ensures every game we play remains open till the last minute.

Seriously, the naivety of his tactics makes Roy of the Rovers and Billy the Fish look sophisticated and it seems like he literally only has half a plan, able to deal with half of the pitch or half of a match – maybe he should look for an opportunity in 5 aside?

I do appreciate that he has brought in some genuine quality players in Lukaku and Deulofeu and that Barry and McCarthy can also be considered good signings. However he also added a lot of dross (Kone, Alcaraz, Lennon, Cleverly) and I'd happily send them all back in return for the ability to actually defend a 1-0 lead.

I agree we can't go back, but in the scheme of things KITAP1 and challenging for top 6 certainly seems less offensive than it was considered by many on this site at the time.

A new manager could reinvigorate this squad, a few decent results with a new boss could go along way to keeping this squad together for next season, with new signings too.

Regardless of the huge (obscene) amounts of wonga they earn, they can't be happy getting twated every week, surely even the most naive of players must see El Bob is as useful as a chocolate fire guard.

I hope someone, anyone at the boardroom, feels the same way and acts accordingly.

Thanks, Neil.

I have taken the liberty of sharing the link to this on various Everton groups on Facebook, and it's starting to go viral, so hopefully it may end up on the screen of someone who can take it further.

It forms the basis for a contract termination speech that BK – or his successor – should be giving as I write but, I suspect, will be delayed until we are in much deeper mire !

The only addition I can make is to point out that 1 thing has changed, ie, our league position. From top 5 to 11th and now sliding even further down (regularly conceding 3 goals and throwing away 2 goal leads is a recipe for disaster).

I dread next season if this clown somehow clings on.

Let's be honest, you can watch Sky Sports News ALL day, still getting the same 4 or 5 stories repeated ad infinitum, with no mention of the gross mismanagement of our club from the board on down. If this was the Shite, or City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal, even Newcastle for Gods sake, the local and national media would be having a field day.

We are by no means a small club, but we have been portrayed as such in the media for too long now, especially in the Premier League era. I can't stand Piers Morgan, but his Twitter rants about Wenger and Arsenal are spot on most of the time. I wouldn't suggest it makes a difference, but it raises the issues. Where are our famous fans, why aren't they moaning from the rooftops? Tony Bellew, start talking!!!!

Anyway, thanks again people, and I hope someone somewhere does use this to good effect.

Everyone has always been too scared to criticize Everton, the board, the manager, it's always been too nice, we are just little old Everton who regularly punched above their weight during the early years of David Moyes when the financial restraints were more evident.

Gradually Moyes raised the bar and he had a bit more money to sign better quality, he left the club in a very very stable state, with John Stones already at the club (Moyes's last ever signing)

The only two who ever say it like it is and demand better are Michael Ball and Stan Collymore on TalkSport.

I agree that the media think that Everton are doing OK and we should be pleased to follow such a flamboyant team; how can we moan about being in the middle-lower part of the table? After all what more could Everton be, than a middle level club?

We have been praised for our football this season, which probably hasn't helped the team as opponents have thought "Top 4 are you – we'll see about that" and raised their game accordingly.

In times past we had what Leicester City are currently enjoying, outsiders under-estimating them and a team of players who will run the extra mile in order to prevent or score a goal. We at the moment don't look as if we can run more than a couple of hundred yards in any given match.

The local media is beginning to show a more questioning attitude towards the manager, but only after last night's cup exit and for me at least, way too long into Roberto's tenure. Never has an Everton manager had it so easy from the local and national press given the results from the past 18 months.

But the image of the club to outsiders isn't quite the same as it is for those of us who follow it's fortunes on a regular basis and there lies the rub, we think we are big club, others see us as a traditional, quaint sideshow who make up the numbers.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-city-3-1-Everton-10799910

However, the pattern of results you mention in your 'letter' would and will surely convince the most die-hard Roberto fans-of whom I was one- that the writing is well and truly on the wall.

There are aspects of his tenure which have to be acknowledged as being positive: he has brought in some wonderful talent to the club, the, at times, attractive attacking football which delights not only Evertonians.

He also comes across as being a lover of the game and an erudite, approachable individual, a decent man. It would be hard to find opposing fans chanting obscenities at him as they would at other managers.

For these reasons I have been reluctant to call time on him but it really does seem now that his football philosophy is not for us.

Last night they were a little unlucky a deflected goal and one that clearly should have been disallowed. But the decision to remove him has nothing to do with last nights game, it was always going to be a tall order to get through over 2 legs.

The talk in the past week by players, manager and the media has been about the atmosphere or lack of it at Goodison. The atmosphere is not great because the fans don't trust this manager or the way he has this team playing.

We all believe that this is the best squad we have had in years, but for a lot of the time the football is possession based boring football. LVG is playing the same turgid stuff as RM has us playing but the media quite rightly blame LVG were at Everton its the fans who are to blame.

I guess this poor run of form couldn't have come at a worse time for the board as they were hoping no doubt that they could leave RM in place till the end of the season and let the new owners do their dirty work. But fail to beat Newcastle next Wednesday and surely this would make his position untenable.

I cannot decide if Roberto is a deluded fool, blind to our failings and genuinely of the impression that we are a great side who produce "incredible" and "dynamic" performances that create a "phenomenal atmosphere" at Goodison.....or he thinks we are all fools who if you keep telling them it is great they will eventually believe you. Either way, it is unacceptable.

The results are poor, the atmosphere at home games is dead and the club is going in one direction. Lets get another 11 points in the league to avoid relegation and then get rid of him and the so called coaching staff. Clean slate, start again.

I've lost track of how many times over the years when BK has peddled his 24/7 investment and 'going through due dilligence' bullshit that the camera has panned to him shedding a tear and the commentators remind us how he saved The People's Club and how he's desperate to pass his train set to someone who'll look after it just as well he did and never take it out of its box.

Well.......where are you now Bill, when the shit hits the fan and the tough decisions need to be made? You've mortgaged the sole of the club and with it your power to make changes and influence the club if you ever had the balls in the first place.

As for Martinez, I initially applauded the shift from the climate of fear of making mistakes that Moyes brought (remember Barkley conceding a penalty against Blackburn and then banished for an eternity?) to the more expressive climate and playing style that RM brought to the team. However he's become like that hippy parent that never tells his kids off even when they're mugging old grannies and they've turned into arrogant gobshites with no respect for authority.

Roberto, I wan't you gone, but Bill won't sack you so in the meantime grow some balls, drop the underperformers, stop being a stubborn twat and repeating the same failing formula over again, gets us to 40 points and then do one (preferably sooner rather than later)

Badly run, in debt, dilapidated stadium, uninterested owners I could go on and on. It is a travesty that such a big club has been left to slowly fade away and disappear into the wilderness.

Now here we are 12th in the table having hardly won a game, conceding goals left right and centre, knocked out in a cup semifinal and still we retain the services of the man responsible.If we had any ambition he would have gone this morning.

Who hired that man? Bill Kenwright who has presided over one of the worst periods in our history. I am sure he is a great guy and a great Evertonian and I wish him well but the record isn't great is it?

I just hope the takeover happens and they are ambitious and we install a manager of high calibre not Mark Hughes, David Moyes or any mediocre option from these shores but an astute tactically aware foreign boss.

Yes I am disappointed. I love this club and I hate to see what has happened to us.

He has made me not be arsed about Everton anymore!

I didn't watch it last night, looked on Sky Sports News at just before 11 and saw the result. Tutted and then turned over.

Season ticket is not being renewed, granted it's a lot to do with my daughter being of that age where she will miss her daddy on weekends, but a big part to do with not enjoying football at all anymore.

Whilst I commend you, Neil, for your well presented letter, I will just say, "Fuck off, Bobby, and Fuck off now!"

Has the letter been sent to Roberto and the board as it sums up how many Evertonians feel.

Send it to the media outlets also.

On Sunday I actually laughed out loud as Timmy Flapper waved his big leg in the air and walloped Ayew one. And last night I simply text my mate 'same old bullshit' and went to bed.

Deep down I still care, of course I do, but why risk my heart and my health when none of those on the pitch are particularly bothered and the manager certainly doesn't show a willingness to learn and improve?

My mate studied psychology and talks a lot about the 'winning mentality', he's an Arsenal fan and regularly bemoans the lack of the 'winning mentality' in their team. Well look at our team, which of them are winners, who other than Gareth Barry and two bit-part ex Wigan players have actually won any senior honours? I hate talking about the scum over the road but one thing they never seem to lack is that disgusting arrogance they have, it's like they believe they've got a divine right to win things and do you know what they've won a damn sight more than we have recently. How many times in a derby have we had a better team and run of form but yet still humiliated ourselves?

We've got a team of collective rejects from bigger clubs and a manager who's most significant achievement is relegation from the Premier League.

Erm..... Tim Howard?*

*FA Cup and Community Shield medals by my reckoning. He may even have a PL winners medal to go with at least two FA Cup loser medals... I can't be bothered checking.

I go to sleep hoping we have been taken over and our manager has gone.

What do I wake up to? Our still current manager and our captain turning our club into laughing stock by their comments. This is beyond sad.

In all fairness I like Cleverley but I doubt anyone will be making a Martinez-esque claim in 10 years about him being the best of a generation.

Would you be wanting to build your team around Howard right now either?

If the new owners have the best in mind for Everton they will have monitored Jose's employment status and the sooner they decide that he is the man to take this club forward the better.

I can think of no other manager that will put the steel back into our backbone – I admire what he has done at the so called 'big clubs' but let him now prove himself to be the really great manager that he perceives himself to be. There is a blank canvas at Everton for him to start drawing plans for immortality.

Personally I think he is a big egotistic prick – but hey haven't we suffered one of them for the past two years!

The likes of Jose Mourinho only manages big media spotlight clubs, he wouldn't manage a club he has no hope of winning the league and Champions League with!

Same as Guardiola, they don't like a challenge these men.

Pardew got Newcastle 5th, that's a bloody miracle with that lot.
Plus he's already got Palace in the top half above us last season and will arguably do the same this season.

The Yanks like to be winners – so prove it!

No, but that wasn't the question you asked. You asked a pretty specific question and I and Andrew answered it.

Cleverley though is a much better player than some people on here would have you believe. He goes about his work in a non-flashy way and is a much better ball player than McCarthy in my opinion.

Tim is a shadow of the player he was and I think it is a shame Martinez is tarnishing what has been a pretty decent career overall (he has won medals, which most players do not) and a good stint with us particularly. He is now a combination of past his best and horribly horribly exposed by the complete lack of defence in depth put in place by the Three Stooges –Martinez, Lawrence and Jones.

The managers you mention manage at top clubs because they are top managers. Jose managed Porto to a Champions league win that's why top clubs became interested.

He has delivered everywhere he has been, so surely you don't expect him or Guardiola to look at us do you. These are the very top of their trade, a bit like saying lets see how good Ronaldo or Messi fayre playing for the likes of Everton.

Its been a long time since we have been able to attract top players never mind top managers.

I'm starting to think there was a language problem when RM took over and promised Champions League football that he actually said Championship League football which he is well on course of achieving.

I wonder if at the start of next season will the 1878 on our crest stand for 18 wins in 78 games?

As Jim Reeves/Ry Cooder sang, "He'll Have To Go."

I personally don't see that nasty, win at all cost ugliness in our current team and I'm correlating that with a lack of success in terms of player's trophies both with us and their previous clubs not that you need a cupboard of trophies to be a winner.

Players from yesteryear like Tim Cahill and Big Dunc (albeit not often enough) who could almost drag a team up single-handedly, I just don't see that in the current team apart from maybe Mo Besic who looks like he'd mug his own nan to win and Barry with his massive experience, Naismith was another. I guess a manager builds a team in his own image and I think we lack that nasty edge required to win things.

What we need is a manager who combines the best Moyes and Martinez. So if anyone knows a miserable Glaswegian with Spanish blood called David Martinez then please point him towards Goodison.

No such thing as doing the honourable thing these days but if it still existed, Martinez should resign and give us all a break from his absolutely rubbish version of football.

I'm seriously considering not renewing my membership in The Peoples Club for next season if this clown is still in charge.

My choice was always Bilic, I liked the way he got Croatia playing good football, think we missed the boat not getting him.

I also think the missed opportunity of bringing Jack Butland in, when we had the chance has cost us big time this season, there again he would have still picked Tim.

Martinez's failings is his stubbornness, not seeing what we the supporters are seeing and acting upon it.

It's posts such as yours together Lyndon's great piece that make ToffeeWeb exceptional.

If we do get new owners (and that may well be out only hope of immediate salvation) we need to ensure one way or another they are directed to ToffeeWeb as the only show in town for the considered and articulate views of supporters!

Wigan won on the 14th of May, on the 21st of May Everton asked the Wigan chairman for permission to speak to Martinez (The only chairman who was asked could Everton speak to their manager about the vacant managers position at Everton) and on the 21st of May BK interviewed Martinez and stated that he hired him, after he demonstrated how he beat Man City in the FA Cup Final.

This to me demonstrated that there was no due diligence on BK's part searching for a new manager that Martinez was a shoo-in after beating both Everton and Man City in the cup. There seemed to be no demonstration of how Martinez's teams defensive records got poorer every season and no demonstration of tactics to avoid relegation. Martinez is getting a lot of criticism, some of it deserved, some of it not, but the person who deserves the most criticism is the person who will not admit to making a mistake,that is BK.

We need not accept mediocrity, like the badge says. A title or top 4 may very well be beyond the reach of the current squad, but 12th is unacceptable, especially when it is clear that tactics and "philosophy" are the key driver of our poor results.

I am not happy with our league position and no Everton fan would be. I'm sure we all agree that certain decisions have gone against us the last few weeks. And the team's failure to hang on to leads has been a major concern.

But this team has some young players who have hopefully been learning some hard lessons the last few weeks. Its time to stick together and give them time... RM too.

I've heard Stones is holding on for a move to Barca in the summer. With Funes Mori improving game by game I would take the money and use half of it on a Cahill or Shawcross. Who knows what money will be given to the manager once the takeover haaaaa....

Sid, are you serious?? If the new potential owners read ToffeeWeb they will turn around and run 5000 miles in the other direction.

And the common predilection for bullshit would have sewn up the deal.

Criticism is not welcome at Goodison, time for another flypast.

For what it's worth I always thought Martinez appointment was a lazy one no doubt over a brandy with Bill's mate Whelan.

However I think it was mooted before the FA Cup tie as I am sure Moyes would have been approached at Xmas and was honest enough to tell Bill when he stated he was not renewing his contract.

That is why we didn't hear much about other candidates because our man already had the job bar the formalities.

The FA Cup win just helped to justify the decision and the relegation with significant goals against conveniently swept under the carpet by the media.

I thought then when has a manager got a side relegated and been given the manager's job at a top six club.

Yes only Bill could do that.

His legacy a championship manager to go with our championship stadium.

I think both you and I on different posts agree on the lack of effort on the hiring of Everton's new manager and that Martinez was the only choice after Wigan defeated Everton in the cup. BK was aware of Moyes's intentions at the end of season that he would have to search for a new manager.

Bad team selections, predictable tactics, refusal to drop your 'favourites'. The last one is a big one, because I firmly believe we would be 10 points better off with Robles given a prolonged run in the 1st team. Dropping Howard (and it's your stubbornness to do so) could have solved half your problems earlier in the season, but not now. You could go sign Manuel Neuer on deadline day and play him till the end of the season and it still would be too late.

What is disappointing about this current situation, is that most of what you have written is probably known to him already. His support staff will serve some sort of purpose, they are probably are pointing out the same things to him. But he won't care. It's his way or no one else's. We're talking about a man here who sacked all his medical staff and put himself in charge of all things medical related because he has a qualification. I never seen anyone more deluded than him. Even if he was to respond to this, his response would be to fixate and disagree with all that you have written "we have dropped points, but for 85 mins we were in control and won the game."

Whilst that first season was very very good. I think the warning signs were there towards the end, when you beat Arsenal 3-0 at home you should have seen out the season and you would have cracked that glass ceiling. But it's all been downhill from that Crystal Palace game, when again team selection let you down, that was the start of things to come.

Were a forgiving bunch, we put up with Moyes for 9 seasons. But I will say one thing about Moyes, he never attacked the home fans. Despite what we would sometimes consider negative about Moyes (knife to a gun fight) he was more in touch with the fans than you ever will be.

So do the right thing Roberto, you're embarrassing yourself now. More so you are embarrassing us. We are Everton FC. We are miles bigger than you ever will be. FA Cup with Wigan will always be your peak.

Phenomenal!

Not sure you're right on that point. They would see what a group of committed fans the Club has. No one involved in mass spectator sports has any illusion about the fanaticism of fans – that's what bring their dosh in.

To think that fanaticism would drive potential buyers away is wrong. Baseball and American football has, believe it or not, fans as fanatical as us so they'll well know what to expect.

Re this manager's unbelievable decisions, selections, style of (non-)play – RUBBISH!!!!! So many problems, regardless of players' ages, tactics, selections – everything! I just wonder how long can big Dunc be associated with this pantomime – surely he's not of earlier Wigan descent!!!

A blue for life but this tests everybody's perseverance.

Once a Blue, Die a Blue!!!

Again, Neil, well done – brilliant.

I agree that RM seemed to be doing a good job at one stage but now it is in complete disarray. Even if he had everyone fit and available I seriously doubt he has what it takes to turn this around even with another season.

Moyes did a decent job in making a tough team out of what he had moneywise but lacked the charisma necessary to getting a winning team consistently although he also seemed to be getting on the right track at times. It's just a job to RM and he won't quit but can we not expect a decision soon from the board?

I would have thought that the players surplus to requirements would have been gone by now and one or two drafted in during the window but it seems RM never had any intentions, except for Nessie going, which was Nessie's decision.

I don't want either of them as our manager. Neither of them will give us the success we want.

Even last season, I maintained a fully paid-up member and put it down to second season syndrome. The turning point was just prior to the festive period this season. We had played all the top teams and we're still in touching distance of 4th... "Here we go," I thought, "time to push on." How wrong was I?!

Last night I ripped up my battered and bruised Martinez fan club card and, for the first time in over a decade, it's seen me call for a managers head. While I can understand his philosophy and that he is on record as saying he is only half way through his project, I do not think he will be here to see it through.

I hope I'm wrong and that we turn a corner. I will bookmark this post and will be delighted if Roberto makes me eat humble pie for the second time in his tenure. Unfortunately I don't think I'm foolish enough to be wrong twice!

However our bunch will not have envisaged paying out to RM and his coaching staff all the millions they will have to. They also won't have budgeted for a new team to replace him.

BK will want Moyes back and last time he was here he was on 4M a season so I can't imagine that happening and rightly so as we need a new direction.

It's a mess and a lot of us saw this happening 12 months ago.

If it wasn't for Barry and Lukaku we would be in the bottom 5 this season.

Utterly shameful for a squad with the quality we have.

Roberto is like General Mclellan in the American Civil War. He has created a wonderfully talented squad but has no idea how to use them.......when questioned on his failings he seems to have no way of changing.....just like olde George Mc........

Bottom line is that we have him until the summer, between now and then we need to make it totally clear to the current or prospective board that we do not support RM at all and want a fresh face next season.

Have you got your application as the new Manager of Everton in the post yet? You'd have my support.

Cheers!

I hated Moyes, for not having a go sometimes, but the subs Martinez made last night... well, it wouldn't surprise me if someone told me Pelligrini was behind those decisions.

Ian (#74), can't mate, I'm going to Bayern when Pep leaves.

Roberto, examine, analyse, learn and please don't substitute Geri. He was all over City and you took him off.

BTW. As I was undercover, all the City fans were raving about Funes Mori. The 7,292 Everton fans in the away end, hats off to you, you were awesome. If you watch the footage, I'm the one in block 139 who remains seated for all three City goals.

Those who remember the mid eighties probably still get goosebumps just thinking about it, that feeling of being winners, the pride in one's team. If say, we get taken over, a new chairman, a new board and a new manager for next season, maybe a change in some of the playing staff the only thing that stays the same are the fans.

We are the only constant in all of this, RM could be managing somewhere else, probably little or no thought for Everton. I know some on here say they are nearly finished with supporting the team as things stand but the hope is always there. It's what keeps one going.

I seem to be in the minority, but find the letter full of cheap shots ("You use the term 'learning' almost as much as phenomenal.") and extreme presumptions. You state that Stones's poor form is down to poor coaching not low confidence. How on earth do you know that? (I would not be surprised if his confidence had taken a buffetting after the vitriolic criticism from some of our home fans.)

You acknowledge the joy of that first season and I do share your frustrations over subsequent results. However, there have been occasions when our football has been superb (Southampton, Chelsea (H), even Chelsea away until those last few seconds, Sunderland...). Yes, defending is a problem and must be addressed. Jags has only just returned and is still not 100%.

I want things to improve. However, I don't believe that getting rid of the manager and the acknowledged attractive football that we can play. I have friends from other clubs, not historically friendly to EFC, who love the way we play, envious of us having Barkley, Stones...

I'm sure you've been watching the Blues many a year (My first match was 1966 vs Sunderland in the FA Cup) and suffered during some dreadful periods. The present situation is nowhere near the states we've previously been in: Catterick post '70, boring Bingham, later Lee, Mike chuffin' Walker, some of Joe's direct style, Kendall 3rd time, Walter Smith, Moyes's 2nd full season. And yet there was not the clamour for change, there was not the unpleasant abuse flying around and there was not the disgusting booing and abuse of our own players at Goodison Park.

Why is Martinez and some of our players getting so much vitriol when predecessors did not? A man who believes in the style of football that used to be synonymous with EFC, who's attracted talented players to the club.

It is the issue of the criticism of our own team at Goodison Park that is most worrying. I recently went to a match with someone who was neutral and they could not believe the abuse that our (and the country's) most talented players were receiving. If some of those players choose to leave, the negativity of our home crowd will have had something to do with those decisions.

I now live in the Midlands, our home fans now surpass Villa's supporters for negativity to their own side. There can be no more damning statement than that one!

I know I'm not alone in wanting to give Martinez more time, not alone in seeing the potential for a great period but these voices are deafened by the bile that's coming from websites and at Goodison and they don't speak for me.

It's at this time that the team need our SUPPORT.

Unfortunately, I feel its too late. Martinez Out!

I truly believe that with this manager, success is ALWAYS just round the corner and promise and learning have become shields behind which he will seek to hide forever.

It's not as though Everton supporters are an impatient lot. Just look at the Club's Premier history to see how long-suffering we are! And I am unaware of any clause in any manager's contract that actually stipulates winning games is of secondary importance!

So whilst YOU may continue to salivate over the somewhat fanciful progress our manager and team is making but I, like most of a blue persuasion, would ask for something a little more substantial. WINS !

The squad has been roved to be too small, and injuries have taken their toll, but other teams like Leicester have managed to get by without key players. Ours don't seem fit enough.

So many aspects to our failings suggest poor management.

My 'extreme presumptions' about Stones are based on the Cruyff turns in our box (quality play, but wouldn't like to see it too often) and the howler against Swansea. If his confidence is shot, it's because he doesn't have confidence in how he's being coached.

Our superb football is grossly outweighed by the paucity of our defending, and you can't lay all that on Jags being injured. My strongest belief is that while Martinez was right to blood the youngsters, and I do not deny there have been positives, the results and performances have been consistently unacceptable for too long. 18 months of Groundhog Saturdays...

Say what you like about Royle's style, but if I remember rightly we were winning games and sitting 7th when that Rednose sacked him... then what happened?

What I think it boils down to is that the team are getting booed and abused because we know they are capable of so much more. You said it yourself, Martinez's Everton in his first season were so entertaining, and we all enjoyed them so much.

What happened? Martinez. No defensive coaching, little or no fitness coaching, ridiculous amounts of soft tissue injuries... For me with Our Current Manager, it's not his style of football, it's the lack of substance. All this negativity comes from a nervousness and frustration I feel every time we play, every time there's a corner against us, or indeed a corner for us. Enough is enough, man.

The ideal situation for me, would be to bring in a bright, winning manager and move Martinez to technical director or something, where he's still involved in identifying players and coaching, but nowhere near the touchline come matchday.

I always support Everton, Gary, and right now it's like dying by inches.

Arsenal play penetrating football going forward, we play good football at times but two things for me let the attack down.

1) Our final ball is too often frustrating or our finishing too timid and passive (Deulofeu when clean through on Wednesday to make it 4-1 on aggregate)

2) We need to commit more men inside the area. Too often we see a totally isolated Lukaku against 5 opposing defenders. Since the New Year, the Chelsea game aside, it's started going back to last season's "isolate the striker" lark again.

And I also agree that the squad is too small yes, I said so before the sale of Naismith. If Lukaku was to get injured or lose form, even for a few weeks, what then? Where would our options be?

As it is Mirallas is out injured, Deulofeu can only play 45-50 minutes before blow out and it seems the likes of Lennon for whatever reason is out of favour.

The single most annoying phrase in the English language.

That aside, I agree with your post, Jim. Naismith's sale was a good deal in my eyes though. He wasn't a striker, a winger, or anything else useful to us. We need someone to compete with, and compliment, Lukaku.

Roberto Martinez is a proper prick. "Proper Evertonians are realistic and know we have played better than results have shown and stick by us."

You fucking what? I have missed one half of a game this season. And I will tell you we have been shit... slow passing, predictable, defending like under-10s and couldn't score in a brothel with ٟ,000 stapled to their foreheads.

I always thought Moyes played the game to keep the fans upbeat but at least he was honest when we were playing shit. You Martinez are just a fucking deluded Everton fans watch the games and then spend the next week talking about the good and bad aspects of the game.

Martinez, you are a condescending fuckwit; go on the Everton forums and see what proper live, sleep, breath Evertonians think of you.

29 January 2015... Guess not much has changed in a year.

Lessons learnt? Yea, right.

Firstly, you say EFC fans are not fickle – try telling that to those who sit by me and scream for Barkley to be taken off after his first mistake in the game. Tell that to those who abused all-time great Peter Reid at a reserve game in his final EFC appearance – I was there. But in terms of fickle, let's have some honesty and realism here. As an Evertonian, what do you really EXPECT of the team – not what you WANT, but what you EXPECT – wait for it – from a Club that has won just 15 trophies in 137 years?

So before people call for change (as they are perfectly entitled to by the way), they need to remember exactly what Everton is in terms of a successful football club. 15 trophies in 137 years strongly suggests we need to be realistic about what to EXPECT from any Everton manager.

Many points made by Neil and others about Moyes. An interesting fact for me is that EFC fans applauded him out of the ground after he had already signed for Man United and after he had won nothing for 10 years during which time, we were cannon fodder for whoever the "Big Four" were – and yet they want Martinez gone after just two-and-a-half seasons.... don't quite see the logic in that. Name me an EFC manager who was the finished article after just two-and-a-half seasons – you can't – not even the great Howard Kendall, as evidenced by his garage doors.

If statistics mean anything, then in just two and a half seasons, Martinez has already beaten Moyes' best ever points total in a single season and has equalled Moyes's best ever performance in the league cup.

Young players – Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Galloway for example. Despite their failings (they ARE young, they ARE learning and developing they WILL make mistakes, it is what young players do), is it not refreshing to have a manager showing a fearless attitude in trying to develop them? Does anyone actually believe that they would have racked up as many appearances under Moyes? And if you believe the papers, Barkley, Stones and Lukaku would probably fetch (combined) in excess of £100m if sold – name me any other club who has three players under the age of 22 with a similar valuation? That is down to Martinez giving them a go rather than shipping them out on loan. Be honest, had any of us even heard of Deulofeu before Martinez plucked him from a Barcelona youth team?

The Board – I don't know of any EFC fan who says anything good about the Board. If they are right, then isn't that a serious handicap to Martinez or whoever the manager might be?

In conclusion, I do not say that Martinez will be a great EFC manager, but I do say that when you look at Everton in the round, he does not (at this point) deserve to be sacked. As I say above, name an EFC manager who was the finished article after two and a half seasons?

Up the Toffees!

It just about sums up the arrogance of Martinez and his 'my way or the highway' attitude.

Not only the obvious evidence against him, but he should also be fucked off for the two of the worst things he's come out with like "it's not about results, it's about performances" and the absolute 'gem' before the Man City game that he's "not interested in clean sheets".

Similarly, the quote about him not being interested in clean sheets has been twisted. I think he meant that if we score more than the opposition by going out to attack, he is not bothered whether the score is 3-2 or 2-1 rather than 1-0. Naive, I know but not quite as categoric as you make out.

I do agree that he has an stubborn (arrogant even?) streak and I want him out just as much as you obviously do, but I hate arguments that use opinions as facts. I will bow to your knowledge of course if you are privy to inside information about what goes on inside the club.

One thing I've heard (not sure if it's true or not) is that we don't practice attacking or defending set-pieces. That would make sense as I think we have only scored 2 goals from corners in a year and a half (from memory so don't quote me) and we concede a lot.

The issues are so glaring and, as you say, not being addressed, Stan Collymore wrote a good article that I agree with (which I never thought I'd say). As soon as Besic was injured, I knew we would concede at least 2 and more then likely 3 or 4 with our defence.

Having 2 shots on target is shocking with our side. As someone said, we don't seem to press at all, defenders not defending. Some games, our service to Lukaku is shocking (Geri excluded).

We just need change with a manager who gets the team fit, starts pressing every game, plays Besic every week as a star in the making, and he will be great. Makes the defenders want clean sheets and be willing to put their bodies on the line.

NSNO Martinez Out!

My biggest concern is his refusal to adapt and change, to deal with what's painfully obvious to everyone else.

Neil, you frequently wrote what 'we' believe and feel and I wanted to point out that there are many in 'ToffeeWeb' for whom you don't speak.

You state that Joe Royle, who I love ("Joe, Joe...Mexico.") got us to 7th. We are at present 5 points behind 7th and I bet that we finish in the top 8. I would definitely never swap the styles of football, even for 5 points.

I'd reckon you are a critic of the Everton board. If so, as Kenny points out, Martinez has to work under their constraints. I'm sure the board were more made up with the £8.5M for Naismith than was Martinez. It is the blinkered intolerance that bemuses me.

As for our fans not being fickle, I'm not sure how that can be taken seriously with the idiots who boo and abuse our young players at every home game. I'm ashamed when I hear such bile.

I've always believed in giving the manager 3 years. Thank goodness we gave Howard 3 years. Stop the calls for sacking and see where we are at the end of the season.

Who do you think you are? Mr Everton? Please don't think that you represent all Evertonians with your views.

How would you feel if someone sent YOU an open letter about how bad YOU are at your job. If someone asked YOU to leave YOUR job, would you??!?

Hang you head in shame and start supporting the football club.

Yours sincerely

Alexander Black

Working under the constraints of the board? Really? What, they're in charge of team selection and tactics now are they?

I keep coming back to the core message in my post, nothing has changed in the last two seasons... too many draws, too many soft goals conceded, too many avoidable injuries, too often glossing over or ignoring the obvious deficiencies in the playing style.

I personally don't see the value in slagging off players for mistakes unless they're making them over and over and over. Martinez is doing just that.

Put it this way, if you went to your favourite restaurant and got one shit meal after years of custom, you'd put it down to a bad night in the kitchen. If it happened the next 4 or 5 times you went, what would you do then? Who would you blame? The waiter or the chef?

If I was doing as badly at my job, for as long as he has, making the same errors, I think I would have had a good few warnings and the boot by now.

I'm certainly not expecting everyone to agree with everything I wrote, but if you're honestly happy to plod on as is, it's you who should be ashamed.

Barkley – talent being wasted, too indecisive. Lots of unlucky decisions, but Kone – enough said, Championship through and through.

Where is Naismith's replacement? Defending, what defending – it's all about practice.

Lennon? No point being on bench... Wingers not replaced by wingers!

Could go on and on... We need a Mark Hughes or dare I say it, a Pardew.

Anyway, we're not going to agree, I'd just like to see some acknowledgement that there are fans who still support Roberto Martinez, like what he's done with promoting young players, like the talent he's brought to the club... I'm going off on one again.

I do wonder what sort of letter you'd have written to Howard Kendall at the end of 1983. The 'Open Letter' is a little too self-important for my liking, far better to just write a letter to Mr Martinez directly. I say leave all this negativity and simply support, then re-visit it at the end of the season.

And there's not a chance Martinez would have read a personal letter, binned straight away.

We don't all have to agree on everything, it's the reason I put these thoughts out there, to raise the issue. We just need to agree what's happening at Everton right now is not good enough, self-importance aside, like.

We always seem to start off games in a strong attacking position... then lose the will to win.

Martinez needs to focus on why they haven't got the skills or mindset not to start getting lazy and cocky when they are up a goal or two.

Many years ago, I was playing in a Sunday League team from a large pub in Liverpool. At the end of the season, we had money over after paying our league and ground fees etc; we decided to give a £100 pounds to a charity run by the nuns who ran a place for homeless children. Liverpool and Everton were asked to send a player to present the money to the nuns; I was asked to approach Everton as I am a mad blue.

I went to Everton and saw a man, David Exhall, Public Relations Manager, a Birmingham guy, gave him 3 weeks notice; the same was done at Liverpool.

The night came round and Liverpool sent Peter Thompson; Everton sent nobody (typical). On the following Monday, I took the day off and went round to Everton see this David guy; he informed me he overlooked it. I threw my season ticket at him and all hell broke out, the police were called and I was restrained. A director was called down to the office and calmed me down.

Anyway, shortly after that, David Exhall was sacked. Everton told me to bring the nuns back to the pub in two weeks and they would present them with another £100 and they would send a player or ex player to do the presentation.

They did: Dixie Dean... I've still got the pictures and a signed ball – 1970 Football League winners. So you see, it's always worth a try, me old mate.

I would dread getting a manager not playing the Everton way. There are loads of warts with this squad and how we are playing but we are trying to entertain. Do you not feel any pride when you hear pundits, ex-pros saluting our style of football? (Notwithstanding Paul Merson.)

I said I wouldn't go back on this site. There you go. I'm as fickle as ....

This is exactly what we need, proper sensible discussions, not ranting like lunatics (I save that for while I'm watching the match).

Like I originally said, I loved Martinez in his first season, even thought he'd done a decent job at Wigan, not that I'd paid too much attention other than highlights.

I always put down the sloppy goals to the paucity of talent, now I think I know it's down to him.

If he would swallow his pride and get some decent coaches in to help with defending, even unsworth, and tightened things up, and played the game with pace and determination, essentially, as they played in his first season, I would love him to stay.

Can't see him swallowing his pride though...can you?

I will be attending the Newcastle match intent on giving total support and giving boo-boys some unpleasant stares. I feel quite good about the new signing – known to be a hard worker for the team. Hopefully he's more Heath than Madar.

Oh, by the way when Joe Royle left in March 1997, we were 14th not 7th. (I am someone who has a little too much time on my hands.)

Cheers.

Gary