Watford stun Blues with pilfered goals

How on earth is any manager supposed to do well in this league with a squad like ours.This board room is an absolute disgrace starting a new season with such a poor squad.The manager has no financial backing at all.

He has genuinely not learnt a thing from last year. Still at least Lukaku is fit and he's picked Mirallas over Naismith.

Who else are we missing that would feature?

It was obvious Watford were coming to their first Prem game all guns blazing, although that wouldn't have registered with this clown of a manager.

Let's hope the second half is an improvement.
Must say I thought Deeney should have had a straight red for the tackle on Galloway.

That's it really.

Rest of it was pretty dire.

Galloway was okay I suppose, but then RM decided Barry would do a better job. Idiot.

After 5 games we could be in the relegation zone, if so surely the board have to act. Out of the first games this should have been a 3 pt banker.

On the BBC sport site it showed Rom's positional heatmap, he must have been 85-90%% outside of the opposition penalty area. Why pay all that money and not play to his strengths!!!

First half sounded like the turgid displays of most of last season, as James (4) and Bill (5) say.

If history repeats itself, Bob's days could be numbered? He's really got to start upping his game, otherwise surely even Bill won't stand for it!!

The only positive points, at least we got a point and we must be equal top of the fair play league

Everton showed they can go forward when they are allowed to do it instead of passing it across the field then back again.

replacing Galloway was the best move and I guess ,seeing he was replaced by Kone, Kone is now in everyone's good books, at least for this week (he scored #2 and passed back to Barkley for his goal). Still I had shivers running up my back each time Watford attacked as IMO Everton allow too much space in mid field.

Much like last year facing a promoted team for the first game, 2-2 but this time it was Everton that equalized. That apart, we still need some new players.

The 2nd half was much improved so that is a plus but we struggled through that game and Kone saved RM's skin there because if we had lost he would have got roasted by that crowd at full time.

Phil McNulty tweeted applauding Watford's performance, whilst saying that we were 'as dull and unadventurous as last season.'

I think he sums it up really. Just not good enough. 3 opening day 2-2 draws in a row now for RM, against beatable teams.

Disappointing result today, only positive thing I can take from the game, is that we came back twice, got to do better though. I hope it does get better after this!

I'm concerned about our defensive discipline. We seemed to really panic when Watford players had the ball in our defensive third. Our one-on-one defense is really poor and we get disorganized; we don't get tight enough, and maybe that will change as the fitness levels improve. I don't know if we are ever going to be solid enough to play three at the back.

Was interesting, I don't know if anyone else picked-up on this, but Stones didn't look as comfortable late in the game. We were pushing up looking for goals, and he was kind on an island by himself at times and didn't look composed to me; made some bad decisions. In fact, I thought he slowed the game down way too much coming out of the back - seemed to take forever making a decision when he had the ball.

Concerned for Mirallas. Hope that challenge he took just rolled his ankle.

Overall, wanted 3 points, but I was impressed by our recovery and I'm going to look at this as a positive result, because we look to be better fitness-wise and we never quit. Still need to get our timing back with regards to our passing game. Much different feeling coming out of this game than the opening match last season.

First half was terrible. Much better in the second half. Glad for Kone that he scored, he has had a nightmare time since he signed for us.

Well done Ross and Kone. Hopefully those goals will give two lads who lack confidence a massive lift and put a firework up Lukaku's arse.

We stand off the opposition too much and can't trouble the opposition keeper.

For their first goal we had 8 players in the box but still couldn't close them down.

I thought we did play a lot better in the second half but were always chasing the game.

All too familiar unfortunately.

Negatives: dire first half suggests Martinez hadn't learnt. Back four keeps standing off inviting opposition - lead to their excellently-taken second goal.

Still need a strong centre half, playmaker and striker. The right buys, with the display we showed in the second half, will see us right.

It wouldn't worry me if we sell Stones. He won't make the difference for us right now - we desperately need a strong centre half and he isn't that yet. You can't get away from the fact that he's part of a back four that stands off, lack discipline and leaks goals. Keeping Stones is more of the ego-filled strategy that saw us paying over the odds for Lukaku.

The result was really not what hurts, it is the same mindless, insipid coaching that leads to it that is hard to take.

Give him 10 games? Not a chance, he has had more than enough games. We are an embarrassment.

Furthermore to play at home, against Watford with defensive midfield is embarrassing. So again Martinez needed to wait 60 minutes of total dross and result of 0-1, to remove Barry from midfield and final 30 minutes, playing with one defensive midfielder we won 2-1. Will he ever learn?

We learnt nothing at all other than that we know we are in for a long hard slog.

Can't defend as a team, don't press quickly enough or close down.

Only positives were goals for Barkley and Kone.

The rest was turgid dross and a lack of investment with the same manager shows.

Please up the pace or we are in deep trouble!

I'm sorry but if you're passing up a win, a virtual gimme at home on the opening day when you look at our fixture list, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Of course it's frustrating not to win but the second half display was fast attacking football, hardly the type of football to be calling for the manager to be sacked. We've got players to come back from injury and we'll have three quality additions by September 1st.

After seeing the impact Kone made in the second half ,I'm adamant we need to be playing more games with 2 strikers (I'd like to see a 3-5-2 personally) fingers crossed we do bring in Charlie Austin because the potential of him playing alongside Rom is frightening.

Finally, well done to Ross and Kone. Barkley's goal was exceptional and the cards finally fell right for Kone. He still could make an impact in some games but one good display doesn't take away the obvious need for another proven goalscorer.

You said we will improve when our fitness levels are up, but what's the difference between our fitness levels now and other teams?

Surely all teams are in the same boat. We make excuses at end of season saying players have had a long tiring season, but one game in and we're making excuses saying they ain't played enough.

These are well paid full time professional sportsmen. Do you see any other sport where there are so many excuses for poor fitness? Do you see a boxer for instance saying, "Well, yeah he knocked me out because I wasn't fit enough and couldn't be bothered training harder"?

No, they have had plenty of time to get fit and up to speed. Simple answer is they just ain't good enough to compete at the top level with the current squad we have.

Jay Harris (19) said all I wanted to say about the game plus complete lack of movement, bit better in the second half.

Martinez looks like he'll be carrying on playing as last season; it will be his downfall if he does. Maybe he can't or won't play any other way.

Today was shocking and embarrassing for a so-called top 6 side. Watford are awfull yet caused us tons of trouble. The main problem we have is Blue Bill. He can't put any money in and he doesn't sack shite managers.

We are fucked on this showing and if I was Stones I would be off like a shot. FFS, Bill, show me the money .

They have trained for a couple of times though.

If I was the manager these bell ends would be doing a proper 9-5 not some bullshit 2 hour training then free lunch then more easy training.

Beyond a joke. Piss poor and exactly the same style of play as last season.

Give Roberto the Order of the Brown Boot and if the boot isn't brown when it comes out, you aren't kicking him hard enough.

Our attacking intent is predictable and the defensive organization is just insanely poor when it is needed most.

Problem with our transfer policy is that we keep looking to the future, but as an Everton fan we want the players and the results right now.

Do we really think our manager or players will care as much? They still get paid, win, lose or draw. No soul at the club!!!

Now I'm not saying we should be ecstatic by what we saw today, but let's not go nuts here. We definitely need to iron out some bugs in our system, we need to get fit, need to get some fresh new players, and we need to get our injured players up and running. Let's give this a chance; it is a marathon, not a much shorter race competed at a very high rate of speed (sprint - just didn't want to sound cliche).

Charlie Nichols, who's usually quite complimentary (a big mate of OFM) towards us was pretty scathing about our 1st half performance. I imagine the booing at half time shamed them into improving 2nd half.

As Alan Smith (Chelsea - Swansea) just said it usually takes at least six games for most players to get up to speed. I'm not making excuses but let's keep some things in context.

The same problems from last season: too slow, no direct passing, no movement off the ball, players lacking confidence, or desire, a striker who doesn't understand the offside rule, or know how to create space between him and the opposition centre halves; playing central midfielders as wingers... I could go on.

They fielded 7 new players today, we were very lucky to get a point today, we can possess the ball all game but if we do nothing with it what's the point???

We desperately need creativity, and to play in a way which suits our record buy. We also need someone other than Martinez arranging our defence.

Signings will help, but I struggle to see how we will be any higher than 15th come the end of October. The boos will be resounding then.

Of course it is!

This calender year too many limited teams have waltzed into Goodison Park and scored two goals and Watford you have to say did little in the way of attacking but managed to score twice, until we rectify this problem there's no way we can go in the right direction.

It got bad under Moyes at times of course it did, but in the main he got a team, especially at Goodison, that could eek out clean sheets.

The trouble with Martinez is he holds us back as an attacking force by starting every match with 4-5-1, its so restricting yet at the same time we are far from solid defensively with it, so frankly it doesn't work anymore!

He needs to realise there are certain games where you need to sacrifice a central defensive midfielder for a striker partner for Lukaku.

The story has changed from last year. Us turning the tables in the second half shows that the players are fitter. Us fighting back, shows the players are more determined. Us earning a draw and fighting back TWICE gives us confidence (compared to us throwing away a 1-0 or 2-0 lead).

It's amazing what you can achieve with a limited budget if your manager is bold and wise with a plan that actually works.

If Martinez was a new coach I'd be happy to wait and see. However,he is the coach who stood, gormless on the sideline at Southampton last year. The worst performance by a coach I have ever seen. What on earth will it take to stop the excuses?

I would ask any Evertonian if they believe that this coach, given the excellent salary on offer, is the best we can do. He is, in my view, utterly uninspiring.

But is wasn't a such big shock really bearing in mind how shit we were for most of last season and nothing has really changed this season, so normal service is simply being resumed.

Conceding 2 goals at home to this side is a further demonstration of the continued defensive frailties. If Chelsea still want to pay us £30m for Stones then bite their hand off. He is not the finished article and will not become a better defender whilst under Martinez's management. He probably knows that though.

Key players are out, our timing is off; we're not up to speed yet. It's the first match of the season for God sake, and some folks have already thrown in the towel. What I find frustrating is that some aren't even willing to let us get better, they just want to hate - they WANT to moan. If we had beaten Watford 5-0, people would still find something to bitch about.

I've said before that while we have our present board of shifty inept bums, I've 'accepted' we're not in this to win things (anymore), but surely we can expect the very basics.

Surely we can expect fellers on thirty/forty/fifty grand a fuckin' week to give more than...that! (to be better than....that!)

Remember all those things ('the basics') that were drummed into you (by your dad or a Junior school teacher) when you were 7/8/9/10?

"Talk to each other, don't pass the ball across the face of your own goal, find a man, look across your line, move out together, stop them getting their cross in"

We did NONE of those things, we had players giving the ball away time after time after fucking time, we had players being robbed of the ball because there was no shout (is this the quietest Everton team in history?).

If ever a team needed a big mouthed nark who despises losing, it's us (even if he was a dead average player, right now we need such a man).

Last week on TW I described our losing (nb: losing!) performance against Villarreal as follows..

"Pass.....pass.... .pass.....pass.....pass....pass-pass-pass...pass...pass...pass...pass-pass...passpasspass....PASSPASS...give the fucking ball away...........chase....chase....chase...chase....chase-chase....CHASE... etc (and by the way, their chasing was twice as..um..'chasey' as ours)"

Today (certainly in the first half) this was exactly how we played...again.

Making the same mistakes, over and over and over and over and fucking over and...

THE SAME FUCKING MISTAKES!!

(how long before someone says 'it isn't fucking well working!')

What we are doing is so bad, so pointless and ineffective, it actually looks like we are deliberately wasting time when we're losing - that is what it actually looks like.

One nil down at home, yet Howard is piss-balling about deciding "shall I put the ball there or....maybe here....or no I'll pass to....no I'll welly it"

Nothing passes for no reason to no end....and we're losing.

Oh and insult to injury, we were muscled off just about every ball.

And they made every 50/50 ball 60/40 in their favour.

And they were generally quicker.

And calmer.

And worked harder.

And they're fucking...Watford.

I know this is off-topic, but what can I say about the game that hasn't already been said (and seen before)?

Mark 75, I completely agree regarding Shelvey, a very similar but fitter version of Gibson.

Barkley had a good 1st half, but disappeared in the 2nd until he scored that cracker.
Our play was more direct after we went behind.

Kone had good day at the office, and saved our skin today.

Would you not agree that the first half was a shameful embarrassment? Did you see signs of great stuff to come? Do you believe that , in some strange way, Martinez is unlucky? What will be your breaking point?

I honestly think that there are some Evertonians who will state, some day, that Roberto is the right man to get us back into the premier league.

Forget injuries, bad luck, opening day staleness, we dropped two points against a very poor side, we did the same too often last season.

The biggest disappointment for me is seeing Coleman and Galloway getting forward time after time only for no one to make a run on the overlap. Literally no one. Why sign wingers if we have no intention of using the width of the pitch?

Not a great surprise to anyone who watches us play that as soon as we switch from the beloved formation and stick 2 up top we score a couple of goals. Watford will be relegated and that was 2 vital points dropped.

Different season, nothing learned.

Galloway did OK although not a patch on an injury free Baines. One for the future.

Coleman showed early flashes of his 2013/14 attacking performances but also some of the glaring defensive frailties that marred his early first team appearances. Got turned inside out for Watford's first goal in an almost identical manner to the Villa Real goal.

Jagielka needs to take motivational lessons from big Dunc. He also needs to head with his eyes open when clearing the ball - that way it might end up at a team mates feet for a change.

Stones looked assured and made the game look easy up until being screwed into the ground by Watford's second goal. Him and Jags don't make a good pairing, and when isolated Stones does not look a £30 million defender.

Mirallas was one of the few stand out players of the first half and looked the only goal threat in the first 45. Hope his substitution was a precautionary one

Barkley did the difficult things well and made a hash of the easy. Needs to be told to collect the ball in midfield more as when he did we looked dangerous through the middle. Superb goal though and I would keep him in the team.

McCarthy had a poor game. Huffing and puffing round the pitch is not a good enough return for a bumper new contract. Needs to take more responsibility for passing FOWARDS and with ACCURACY instead of always choosing the safe backwards option.

Barry still one of the few players who can spot a quick forward pass, but his legs aren't keeping pace with his brain. Did well at LB.

Cleverly's passing was far superior to his midfield compatriots, but that's not saying much. Also struggled to identify what his role in the team was tbh.

Lukaku is not a lone striker. Nor is he good at hold up play. Played and looked so much better when Kone came on.

Kone did well, a goal and an assist, looked composed and can make a pass that matters in the final third. If Naismith didn't wear cement boots he'd have added a second assist to his game.

Hard to say how Howard did, his only involvement seemed to be picking the ball out of the net twice.

Overall not too disappointed with the result against a strong, well organised Watford side who got away with far too many pushes on our players and against a fat ref who couldn't keep out of the way of play.

Blame the board for appointing the wrong manager by all means but not how the team plays. If they have done so then they need to rectify it by firing RM but can the club really take this level of disruption? Even I think we can't.

I didn't see today's game and can't comment on how we played but the result wasn't good. A promoted side tipped for relegation and at home. A poor result but we can only hope because that is perhaps all that's left now.

He's ripped the heart and soul out of the team, no direction lack of balance during large parts of the game and clueless when we have the ball.

Why are we not playing to playing to players strengths, like balls in front of Lukaku (just an example) to run on to or at defenders? Because we know he ain't a target man - he wouldn't win a header against Mini me!

Second half the team was better and showed more attacking intent. Whether that was down to the HT team talk or the boos from the crowd, we'll never know. However, although we were better going forward our defence again looked about as safe as a fart in a net. Whatever they do at Finch Farm sure isn't working defensively. I posted somewhere else that the main thing we need to do is sort out the defence as we leaked far too many goals last season - conceding two at home to Watford does not bode well.

The back 5 had 4 internationals and on top of that there are 2 CDMs in front of them and still everytime Watford came at us, we were nervy. Our defence is simply crap right now, Stones or no Stones. Why do we need 2CDMs at home against a newly promoted side? They scored after 14 mins anyway!

Before the start of the game, the one result I really didn't want was a draw. At least had we lost we'd be closer to getting rid of this clown we have as a manager. Sorry have zero faith in this manager, not even 1%. The guy is a stubborn tit who thinks he's discovered some magical new way of playing football - which a) doesn't work and b) is f'king boring to watch.

Looking forward to S'ton away, then city, then spurs, then chelsea. Time for a holiday.

He cant head a ball, trap a ball, has the touch of an elephant and cant run around much either.

I looked at Gomis and Ayew today and still wonder why we paid 28 million for him.

The opposition are letting us have the ball in our own half and on the halfway line. While we are passing square and back they are organising themselves. It's like a defensive coaching drill

No investment for years and the fans blame the manager.

Just take a look at the bench and the 9 or 10 first team squad members who are out injured.It is too weak to compete in the top division and unless serious money is provided to buy players we will be in dire trouble.

Watching Swansea today fully illustrates how poor we are. Swansea are a club with low support compared to us who finished in their best ever league position last season. They played really well today and Shelvey made them tick with great long forward passes to two strikers and a really fast winger.

It is not only Swansea that are improving and we will do exceptionally well to finish in the top half. Every club has invested in their squads and we are languishing having spent nothing. We need to buy in the first month of the transfer window to get new players bedded in properly. Leaving all the business until the last week or so is ridiculous. It is the board who are at fault and the manager is just the patsy taking the flak.

I don't want to moan and I don't hate anyone/anything, hate is a very strong word in my opinion.

Also the injury situation, most of which are hamstrings, a recurrent problem since RM arrived.....

But yes I am moaning because for some reason our first team seem determined to play a system that doesn't work, suit the players, or is effective. Now that is very much down to one person in my opinion, who either won't change it, is oblivious to the issue, or can't change it.

After seeing this issue for some time, which others on here can see as well and nothing happening to sort it out, it does get very frustrating.

Also I can assure you I wouldn't be moaning at all if we won 5-0, but we were lucky to get a point today.

The issue I have is that our weaknesses were glaringly obvious last season, nothings been done about it. Lesser teams are coming to Goodison to get a result, they know how to set up against us and how to play against us and with no signs of our manager doing anything about it, I feel, we could find ourselves in a seriously bad situation very swiftly.

Monk is everything Martinez isn't. He's far superior tactically. His team plays exciting, attacking football, they're well organised, well balanced and hard to break down, good on the counter attack, his players are in their preferred positions and know their roles in the team.

His team has good width and decent wingers, whereas we are so narrow and toothless going forward because of RM's obsession with playing one winger in a 4-2-3-1 system. Note to Roberto: IT DOESN'T WORK!

Martinez is the complete opposite. We play boring, predictable sideways rubbish, we are definitely not well organised, especially defensively, usually our counter attacks break down or end up going backwards or sideways again, he constantly plays people out of position, his subs are bizarre, I mean, Barry at left back???

Martinez rode off the Moyes organisation and structure that was put in place. Now he has fully implemented his system and it's a shambles. Defensively woeful again. The defending for the 2nd goal was shocking.

He quite clearly hasn't learnt and is still as stubborn as ever. We've been long worked out. Maybe someone could remind Roberto of that?

If you're a lone striker then you have to work so bloody hard for ninety mins. You have to work the channels, harass the hell out of the cb's and not give them a minute's peace. You also need to hold the ball up and bring others into play. Lukaku does not have any of the attributes needed. He doesn't have the ability or attitude.

Don't get me wrong, in another system with tactics playing to his strengths, he could score 20 league goals a season.
But if RM persists with this system then he needs to buy another striker and get rid of Rom. For Rom's own confidence, he should leave as RM's system will slowly destroy him. Square peg in round hole. Change the system or change the lone striker. It's simple.

Watford pressed us in the first half and there was sense of deja-vu with some of the passing. The 2nd half was a different story and I don't think it was an accident we became more direct with the introduction of Kone. There were games towards the end of last season when it was the same story. The only difference was that Kone actually scored today, where as last season we saw a lot of effort and not a lot of anything else. So if we do bring in a quality striker, like Austin. I think we'll be a lot more direct and will win a lot more games with another capable goalscorer who can take the pressure off Rom.

I'd like to see a formation with 2 strikers from the get-go, instead of it being used to chase games. If we do bring another quality striker in the question has been posed whether they will come and sign to sit on the bench. I have the feeling we'll see more games with two strikers and the reason it's only happening as a plan B at the moment is because we don't have the players.

As far as supporters shouting for the manager to be fired, as far as I can see,with his stubborn refusal to change a style that is not working, he is doing a good enough job himself to get fired.

This comment of give him 10 games to prove himself IMO is not going to make B.K. change his mind ,as he will hate to admit he made a mistake in hiring a manager, who is now into his seventh season in the premiership with only 1 successful one ,as I do not count winning an FA cup and getting your team relegated from the premier as a success.

Noted no blue Bill.

Have noted also that aside from Jags and Tim, there is a very young team developing. But, sadly, I posted on here last Christmas that I think RM should go, and I remain of the opinion he should based on the type of football being served up.

Looking forward, and in discussion today I said 10 games. Have just looked at the programme and noted the games in October. Suspect that will be pivotal.

It's wating for a team to attack us. The first half was a repeat of so many failures to unpick packed defences. Martinez set up Wigan to play a counter attcking style and it workled for a while. He has utterly failed to learn the lessons of the ponderous pass philosophy that seved us so poorly last season. Even if that is a good 'philosophy' we lack the players to make it work. Why didn't we start with a formation like we had in the second half? We can save the counter-attacking for better and more adventurous teams.

Without an injection of 2-3 class players I can't see it changing, as Bobby seems to be an awfully slow learner!

On a positive note, Kone and Barkley showed much improvement today. Loved seeing Stonesie and Barkley celebrating together after his goal. The future is bright, just hopefully not to the highest bidder.

Barry - too slow and sloppy in his all round play looked tired after ten minutes, is it his age, today's sunshine or lack of motivation from the manager!

Lukaku - absolutely stunk the place out, no first touch, no hold up play, no link up play, no flick ons to his own teammates, no shot's nothing absolutely zilch! Made Troy Deeney look like the £28 million man! The guy needs a serious kick up the backside!

Ross Barkley - Goal aside which was a great strike, he barely done a tap, I am beginning to wonder what his role in this side is because he is bringing nothing to the table no real work rate, no assists, no quality play, no tackles if he never scored he would be getting slaughtered!

Robert Martinez - his tactics are pathetic, the squad is short of quality everywhere, the team lacks cohesion, belief, ability, desire, organisation. There is no sign of any good things he has brought to the team apart from the fact we are now predictable and easy to play against. The guy is an absolute fraud the sooner he is out the door the better!

POSITIVES -

Tom Cleverley - he looks fit as a fiddle, never stops trying to make an angle for a pass, can actually play one and two touch football, has an eye for a forward pass and can play anywhere across the pitch! Looks to be a decent aqusition without being a world beater!

Brendan Galloway - he's as game as a badger, fearless in the tackle and not bad on the ball and not afraid to run with it, he looks a decent prospect!

Arouna Kone - changed the game showed Lukaku what a centre forwards job is, to give an option, make intelligent runs, link up play, provide assists and score a goal, say no more!

John Stones - Oozes class and looks to be getting better and better I just hope he stays!

Nowhere near good enough and if the right additions are not made in this transfer window I worry we will be in the relegation zone at Christmas!

I just get the feeling we are going to destroy ourselves this season as the relationship between Manager and Fans is becoming too great...the adage divide & conquer is what we are doing to ourselves

We desperately need some leadership from the Board or RM. Change tactics/approach learn how to defend. The best way to learn is from mistakes. If you don't change neither will the outcome. eg We always play well at high tempo!...it gets the crowd on your side at the very least... (Leicester City!!!)

Everton is greater than any individual, Decisions to create unity is needed quickly. Very worrying

If we don't we will be bottom 6 or worse.

Wrong- Playing 2 defensive mids at home against Watford is excessive and everyone is right to point that out. Barry is too slow to hang these days defensively anyway and probably should play more as a sub. Second, how many times is Jags going to make a limp dick header clearance that leads to a goal?

Right- Barkley was not out wide. He was down the middle where the hell he belongs and looks to be his normal self. Ok so remember how Roberto acted decisively to change the games and made sense in his first season? That's what happened today. He saw that we needed more attacking impetus and acted accordingly. The game changed positively. KONE told 99% of ToffeeWeb to shut the fuck up with a sweeeeeeeeeeet finish. Megged the defender and coolly slotted in the corner from a narrow angle. Our performance was nothing like the Everton of last season. We actually scored 2 goals. It was more like the 2-2 against Norwich when we showed the world we could play. Go down on a rare chance. Barkley screamer. Go down on another rare chance and climb the mountain again.

I know that we need to be more consistent against the weaker sides, but let's not pretend like Everton haven't been choking home or away against crap teams for the last decade. Anyone remember the Adam LeFondre game against Reading? Or the Osman/Howard nonsense against Sunderland? At least we didn't lose the damn game. If we're really building a winning culture with a young group, it's going to take awhile to lose that habit. Be nice to see more on this site actually support it rather than moan about how we need to sack a manager.

Also Vodafones click and collect service is truly shocking. Apparently the system was down so unable collect me phone, this morning.

Martinez out.

When is enough? Last season was enough for me after the awful christmas period we had. The cracks were papered over by the succession of fortunate wins, the only decent performance was against the mancs at GP.

Martinez has no plan B. Hoofing the ball hopefully upfield when pass pass pass doesn't work is just dreadful, going back to the standard not seen since Walters years except at least, though very limited in player talent at least showed commitment.

Watford at home on the opening day of the season and some people are happy with the fightback....ffs it shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. It beggars belief that people still defend Martinez and his shocking tactics, blaming injuries and lack of transfer activity. Any team we put out with the players available should be enough to comfortably beat Watford at home. Alas not. Blame the players all you like but with the terrible tactics we use we could have anybody playing and we would still look sterile. While we still defend Martinez then I guess we get what we deserve. Its about time Evertonians grew a back bone and stood by our motto Nil Satis Nisi Optimum before it really is too late. Martinez really really does have to go

I will settle for a couple of draws early days, then get lucky with the current squad and not bring players in.

Hopefully now, this will force us to strengthen the squad before the window closes.

I'm sorry Peter, but I'm guessing you weren't at the game, or at any last season. I was, and I've spend a fucking fortune to watch this idiot send out his teams to tippy tap the ball sideways and act generally like then have no fucking idea what they are supposed to be doing.

It's shite, he's clueless and its boring me fucking senseless, so no, don't "let's get behind the team".

I was just accused of making excuses for Roberto. I whole-heatedly disagree. I support Everton - I don't give a damn who the manager is! I want us to win games, shake up the status quo, and reawaken what I think is a sleeping giant. I just try (and it is hard sometimes) to look at things from all angles. Injuries, opening match excitement, lack of timing and fitness; these are all realities of the game that can determine results; especially on opening day. I mean, I look at the players that we were missing for today and I believe that if we have a Pienaar available, Delly, Gibson, Baines...I truly believe that we tear Watford apart. But those players are out and that is a reality that I take into account.

Believe it or not, I did see some decent play in the first half, and things that can be corrected. There was a lack of balance coming from the left side where Galloway wouldn't penetrate deep enough; Ross playing too far off of Lukaku in the midifeld which isolated Rom, and indirectly created a logjam in the midfield which assisted in Watford defending in their two banks of four. Build up play was slow, absolutely. And a lot of that was from Stones, which surprised me. But he likes to dwaddle on the ball and he gets himself into trouble. And the boys were actually finding gaps in the Watford defense, but the timing and connection of the passes was off; players weren't finishing their runs, or were making them too late and the we'd lose all momentum.

Things did improve in the second half. Ross started to assert himself a bit more, and simplifying things. Seamus was making runs into the penalty area; which he wasn't doing last season - I don't think he ever really recovered from an ankle knock last year. Kone, stepped up when he was needed.

Defensively I am concerned. We do still seem to get panicky when a team counters us, and we break down when we're one-on-one. I'd like to see us stay tighter defensively, and not drop too deep into our penalty area when teams send crosses into the box, because we always leave a late-arriving midfielder with time and space to put an effort on goal. Now, these are all things that can be improved upon by tweaking technique. strategy and/or getting our legs under us. Yes, a lot of this is an echo from last season. Will they finally be able to iron these out and improve? I don't know, but I want to give the players and staff the opportunity to work it out.

Remember a couple of seasons ago when we started with several draws, and then we just kicked on? Sometimes that happens - things just click and teams start rolling. Hey, maybe everything falls apart and Roberto is gone before Christmas, or maybe not. I'm gonna follow Duncan's charge and be behind the team, because the boys feed off the fan's strength. I want to give the team a chance to find its rhythm and find its confidence and maybe recapture our excitement.

Nevermind the fact it was watford at home, who had 7 new players FFS.

Some pantomime level over-reaction in here

But he doesn't suit this system. This system has highlighted all of his technical flaws. It also does not reflect well on his attitude. He isn't prepared to work hard and he sulks.

Basically, he doesn't like being a lone striker and can't be arsed. If he stays, I don't think he'll get double figures for league goals. Put him in a different team with a different system, where others do the hard work, and he'll bang them in.

The whole problem is Martinez! He is single handledly destroying a team who were regular top seven finishers!

His stubborness to play two holding midfielders, one who his an ageing Barry who has never been noted for his playmaking ability and the other McCarthy an out and out basic defensive mid ball winner. How on earth does he expect us to play with impetus, create chances and hurt teams playing with them two standing in each others toes??

Why after seeing nearly every bottom half side come to Goodison last year play deep, stifle us, counter attck and take points does he play the exaclty the same way??

Why after last year seeing Lukaku be so inaffective when teams play deep does he play him on his own again??

Why after saying so many times after getting beat or dropping points last year we started slow we need to play with more "belief and intensity" that we do it again??

The answer! Martinez and his stubborness to play his shite system with players that obviously are not suited to it or good enough to make it work. It is his system and work ethos that has turned Goodison into a library with nothing for the fans to get off their seat for and creating a painfully frustrating team to watch in turn creating a frustrated pissed off crowd ut's a vicious cycle and is not going to change until he does domething about it! Which I believe he won't do and we will worryingly be in another relegation battle!

31m and he's probably gone, God knows who we'll be playing at centre back then, I get the feeling it will be 2 very quick panic buys!!

Boo boy Barry was outstanding, played very well. McCarthy better than some have said but surely it should be Cleverley alongside him however well Barry did today. Ross inching his way back, glorious goal, several fine efforts but still holding onto the ball too much, over elaborate. Loved seeing Kone get one. Mirallas looked lost most of the game and he's hot yo have a clearer role in the way we caresses up.

Overall I'm amazed that there's criticism of those suggesting this wasn't a great day at the office. How can we accept two dropped points against Watford as good ? It's not negative, it's just common sense, for pity's sake where are our standards ? Hidden beneath the managers manta of holding the ball and passing the life out of the opposition.....except as we all know we are sussed....totally.....and today Watford gave a decent display of the art of frustrating us by sticking a man just in front of the D.

It's not negative to say that result was poor. It's realistic and honest. Somehow this outcome sums up the mgr and the squad.....happy with a draw and 400 more passes than the opposition.

Struck me that Watford were quite happy to sit deep and allow us the ball but, far from playing our slow passing game, we just kept on giving it back to them. Players panicking on the ball. I guess that's what happens when a team with 70% outfield defenders and grafters has the ball in a tight area (Watford's half).

There were some positives to take. When Ross is good he's very good and I finally got some hope that he can improve. He benefited from being played in the right position but we put no work into generating that gap between their defence and midfield for him to operate in.

I thought Galloway was very good defensively, if lacking a bit of confidence attacking with the ball.

Seamus looked like his old self. Stones was imperious apart from the second goal. Jags decent too.

Kone (even goal and assist aside) showed a bit as a forward. His movement made an immediate difference - you're really clutching at straws when you're praising a basic element such as making the odd run off the ball.

Probably the hardest thing to take is that you couldn't pick too many horrendous individual performers which suggests to me that either this is our level or we were just tactically outdone.

I suspect it's 70% the latter but coming around to the idea that there is a bit in the former.

John Terry is a good centre half. Well, that's it really. Other than that a sad specimen.John, stay and learn beside footballers who at least remotely resemble your mates.

Last season we never played well enough to earn victory, the opponent made more mistakes than we did. Our victories were mostly flukes. I think we should gone down because we never seemed to play with the WeCanAndWe Will instead of NoCanDo.

I would just like to add, I do not believe that one single contributor to this site wants to be negative all the time. I would just like the coach to give a hint of a silver lining, just something to get on board with.

In Shearer's defence (there's three words I never thought I'd say) what he said was that IF Everton decide to sell Stones, then he disagrees with Ferdinand's view that Chelsea would be a bad move on the basis that:

1. He'd be playing for the best manager in the league
2. He'd be learning from the best centre half the premier league has seen.

The second point is perhaps an exaggeration (I am sure you recognise one of them when you see one) but while Terry is no Jonny Evans, he's a pretty fine defender. Both are very valid points. If Martinez is as clueless as you say, then why would Stones not be tempted by Chelsea

Spot on.

If this clown was in charge of Barca they would finish about 5th in la liga.

Peter, I respect your comments as a fellow blue, however, would Jelavic or Anichebe have a better goals ratio than Kone if they were not sold, I think they would.

Last season we had not one or two out of form, we had 5-6, for me that's down to the guy that coaches the squad.RM has hypnotised the players into playing his fantasy system that clearly does not work, we have gone from having arguably the best two attacking full backs in Europe, to little or nothing on either wing (his "philosophy").

We have a nucleus of British players in the 1st 11,surely to god the likes of Mark Hughes or even Nigel Pearson could set us up to be a tighter unit defensively, start from the back fuck me.I'm sure either of these managers would then spend a few quid on a goalkeeper after seeing how bad Howard is (see last seasons stats).

Again, I would hope any manager worth his salt would not deploy 2 holding midfielders at home! especially against so called inferior opposition.

The above just being basic football principles, or is it just me.

Today I have watched Swansea against Chelsea,what a breath of fresh air, fuck the rent boys it was great to see a reasonably cheap assembled team go toe to toe with the "Champions", organisation, penetration going forward,finding space on the flanks (especially on the left with Montero against Ivanovic) defensively solid, Swansea could have won. A young Coach in Gary Monk doing a great job, making RM look a twat.

Palace, Leicester, Swansea, Southampton, Stoke, Newcastle etc, all leapfrogging us in terms of investment in their respective squads. Here's a thought: if Cleverley wasn't on a free, would we have paid £5-6 million for him? I think we all know the answer; he is a good addition but already he's been put on the LS of midfield! Why not get a LS midfielder ffs?

Season tickets were not renewed for this season due to the dreadful turgid shite served up by RM last season. It genuinely sickened me not going to the game against Watford. I cannot sit & watch possibly the worst football I have ever witnessed at GP with the quality of squad we have, we can all point the finger at the players, but if they don't believe in the manager.....most of us don't!

How can it be allowed for RM to carry out his utter dross football "philosophy" at our great club. Mark my words,we will be in the bottom 4 by mid/end of September with this clown in charge.

Apologies for being so negative, seeing our great club heading towards the Abyss just sickens me. The club is rotten to the core.

1) Kone. Great assist and well-taken goal
2) Galloway looked lively; his delivery not up to Baines' high standard but he bombed forward a few times and was solid in defence.
3) Barkley's goal, lets hope it gives him confidence for the rest of the season. To be fair aside from the goal Barkley's performance wasn't really a standout.
4) We attacked well in the second half; and it was good to see us mix it up a bit with long balls and early balls into the box.
5) Coleman I thought looked much better than his poor imitation last season. Got forward well and some brilliant crosses.
6) Cleverley was good, think he will be a decent player for his this season

Negatives:

1) Horrible first half. First league game of the season at home, you'd expect a lot more energy early doors.
2) defenders standing off! Watford's defence hounded and harassed us at every turn, we continually stood off them, allowing them to counter-attack at pace, especially through Anya.
3) slow, slow pace of our attack. Gave Watford time to organise and defend deep
4) We still seem to have no idea how to break down teams at Goodison. We sorely need that creative spark.

Lastly, we looked so much better when we played with two strikers and one defensive midfielder. I can understand two defensive mids away from home to Man City for example, but surely we can show a bit more adventure when we are at home to a newly promoted side and play two strikers?

Erm... he changed it second half, quite early on actually, pushing two up front and going one in defensive midfield, and it rescued a point for us against a team admittedly I fully expected us to beat.

JM's success is largely built around buying a 'finished product' and ruthlessly shipping them on if they don't deliver instant results (Kevin De Bruyne anyone?). Alex Ferguson mark II he is not.

And if Terry is such a good mentor why hasn't he managed to make a world class CH out of Cahill yet? Or any of the other 31 youth teamers Chelsea shipped out last season? Too busy letting the likes of Ashley Cole take his air rifle to them probably.

Stones is far from a polished Mourinho pawn and at Everton he can be given the grace to fail before he succeeds. He'll be off for Champs League football one day, but what's the rush? One less than perfect season under Mourinho and he'll be sent the way of Bosingwa, Boulahrouz and Zhirkov before him.

Fucking Shearer a pundit, good job no-one actually values the Alan Partridge of football's opinion. And Lineker looks like a gay Santa. No wonder Hansen resigned.

Doesn't necessarily excuse his efforts against two, but I'd you are going to pay all that money for him you might as well have a go at playing to his strengths.

Mind you, teams also tend to lift their game for their first home appearance of the season so now I'm wondering just how bad we can be!

We have some top class players but an extremely poor team that doesn't close the opposition down and doesnt trouble the opposition keeper because they are all running behind the ball so they can safely pass the ball back which means nobody is ever in the box.

We invite pressure and we don't exert pressure.

Time for the taxi Roberto.

Pathetic .

My knowledge of the proper game of football is below yours cause "soccer" wasn't very popular here when I was growing up.

I do catch almost every Everton game. Here's some observations:

1) "Beardless" Tim Howard looked better than last season. Might be cause he's motivated to win his #1 spot back for team USA. Currently the #1 spot is held by Brad Guzan of Aston Villa.

2) I was disappointed the Blues didn't take the game to Watford in the 1st half. Everton spent most of the first half not creating chances for themselves and allowing Watford to gain confidence. Simply put that's not a formula for success.

3) Everton will play roughly ten games at home against bottom half teams. These are the games Everton needs to get 3 points the majority of the time and to get the 3 points Everton need to start the game in a formation that leads itself to score goals. Simply put they were not set up the 1st half to score many goals

4) My gauges for making Champions League places starts with scoring 70 goals. Simply put this squad doesn't have a chance in this respect (and Bobby promised us Champions League). Europa league spots usually need scoring over 55 goals and I don't see the current squad reach 55 goals this season (based on the day 1, slow sideways crap)

5) Bobby did something unusual yesterday. He sent on a sub around the 60 minute mark with the intent to increase scoring chances.

6) Everton need another striker.

7) Everton need more wingers that have the potential to score more than 5 goals. Right now I'd rate Mirrales as the only winger in the squad that fits the bill.

8) I like the yougsters the Blues have and hope they get up to speed this season

9) Hope the Blue keep John Stones this season. His value should go up this year and if the Blues can't make Champions League and a Chelsea comes calling at least we can bank a huge sum for future transfers

10) Based on yesterday's performance I'm now if the "Bobby Must Go Camp". It's mainly based on playing "negative" football on the opening weekend agains a bottom half team. What really pissed me off watching the 1st half was Everton players trot to preassigned positions spreading the field when the Blues won the ball back. Instead of looking for a quick break or counter the Blues just slowed the game to a crawl and this Bullpoop will keep Everton (maybe) around midtable. Forget about European football next year cause Bobby says he can get us there, but his tactics won't!

The fundamental tactical approach is wrong for our players and arguably any team in the premier league.
i) Playing two defensive midfielders is clearly making us actually less good defensively (and vision or not, Barry is a total passenger for the majority of the game). It also doesn't work as an attacking ruse no matter what Martinez thinks - We need 2 attacking midfielders slotting passes not defensive folk breaking up play.
ii) the tippy-tappy passes going sideways and backwards do nothing other than boost possession stats whilst also wasting time and allowing the opposition to regroup. We're also playing it WAY too deep - all our possession is around the halfway line, where it counts for nothing.
iii) one man up front isn't working with Lukaku, not all his fault, we basically hold it in midfield then pump a ball forward. Again, see the need for attacking midfielders
iv) We're not pressing high up the pitch or defending as a team leaving our central defence hopelessly exposed
v) Because we only play one winger (why??) and don't seem to want to work the flanks we're not using our amazing full-backs to their full potential

Also fitness is clearly off in the post-Moyes world. We're not able to close down, over-power teams at the end of matches and are prone to stupid injuries. This is tied into the excessive focus on ball work (which really ISN'T bearing fruit on the pitch) over fitness work and the letting go of a great physio team.

Ultimately I was prepared to give Martinez up to Xmas this year on the back of the fact he seemed to be learning/adapting at the end of last season to a faster more counter-attacking football.

Yesterday was a demonstration that he hasn't changed at all and will persist with the same failing tactics again. Drawing 2-2 with Arsenal at Goodison is one thing when they fight back (we'd have won that match if our fitness levels hadn't run down), saving a draw against a Watford side who brought in like 12 players over the summer is frankly just embarrassing.

They really weren't that good at all. We were just woeful.
Slow and leisurely. Lacking in purpose or clarity of our approach. Panicky at the back and with precious little composure up front.

The players have to take a chunk of responsibility obviously, but for me the manager looks way out of his depth and lacking in ideas.
Martinez out.

It's easy to point out his flaws, but he still has incredible potential.

Playing him as a lone striker in the current system is a waste of his talent. How many times yesterday were half-ass long balls directed his way? Even if his 1st touch were better he had very few options in this regard. Why is he outside the box so much?

To his credit his assist was pretty impressive. He does more than score goals and he does draw a lot of attention.

The Blues do need another powerful central striker and guess what??? Bobby will most likely let this transfer window go by and not add a player like this to the squad.

Bobby is doing a very good job at NOT spending when teams at Everton's resource level are investing in better talent. Guess that makes him popular with the owners, but fans are being shortchanged!

As so many others say we need to play 2 strikers and even RM said yesterday that we were far too slow and pedestrian in the first half. Second half I thought we were quite decent and Seamus was back to his old self but I didn't go to the game being nearly 300 miles away and I sympathise with those who paid out £35 or so to see that first half.

Roberto has to sort out the tempo quickly or the clamour for him to go will become too great for the board to be able to resist.

I like him and see potential in him but his flaw is in too much admiration for Baca and forgetting that they can make the style work because they have Messi and Iniesta

While Barry might be all very good, skilful, experienced, good Pro, up the bosses arse, etc etc whatever. Never mind him being slower than me, we were better balanced when he went there.

Not due to him per se. Just better balanced. So why play a 'slow old man' when we have Galloway.

Bobby! do the unthinkable drop him...Get the balance back, even if it means going 3 at the back.

#talkingtothewallhere

The second half was an improvement; it's hard to get excited when a team begins to do the basics and play with a bit of energy after 45 mins. Especially with the suspicion that we will start the next game as we did yesterday.

I'd like to see us start with two up front, Cleverley & McCarthy at centre mid.

Imagine Sheedy in this side with no movement off the ball. Imagine Reidy in this side, scared to receive the ball from player around him and just passing it square when he gets the ball, as I see McCarthy do time and time again. When do we win a ball in the air from a corner?? Same old Same old with two defensive midfielders every game.

Anyway, tellingly, half of them couldn't pick out a player from us they disliked - we're too nice on and off the pitch! (Of those that did pick a player, Naismith, Mirallas and bizarrely Osman featured).

Swansea looks bright.

Southhampton are better than we are.

Newcastle is up and down. We might finish above them.

Aston Villa is still a work in progess might finish above them.

And then there's Bobby or is it Booby! The season is starting and the chance we'll threaten the top 4 teams is virtually nil (but Bobby promised we'd make Champions League).

The other European places to me are out of reach too.

The Blues will we fortunate to squeak into the bottom of the top half.

I see this Everton team finishing 9-14th.

The transfer window isn't closed so there's hope but "Booby" must likely will sit on his hands and make the owners happy and not spend money he could if he were aggressively trying to push the club forward. It's a shame cause there's potential to have a team that can challenge for higher places (my opinion).

Swansea looked very impressive yesterday and I was very impressed with Montero the winger and Gomis. Gomis showed Lukaku how to play up front on your own and shield the ball, hold it up and bring teammates into play up against Terry and Cahill probably the most experienced back line.

Talking about intelligence, or lack of it. We spend a king's ransom on a very left-sided striker and carefully set things up so 80% of his service comes from the right.

In his first season he enjoyed the luxury of Baines, Pienaar and Oviedo providing constant service from the left but that side of our game seems to have dried up. The way things stand, we urgently need a right sided striker.

I'd like Booby to explain his we'll make Champions League comments made in the past. You don't get here taking reject from Champions League Clubs.

We get DelBoy back and he's got talent, but has never been a reliable scorer and is known for NOT playing defense. How is that a major plus.

Last year we signed Eto which had potential, but didn't work out.

Now we've got Kone and Naismith as striker options #2 and #3 and point blank they aren't big time players.

Booby should have connections to Spanish speaking players and the only native speaking Spanish we get is a player that Spanish teams are more than willing to let go. His lack of defense to means he' never make the Barcelona 18 on a regular basis.

There are players available so Booby has a little rope, but the transfer window is starting to wind down.

Here's a Wiki link to LA Galaxy player Zardes. He's the kind of value based player that might turn out to be a very good Premier League player. His scoring is down this year cause his team has less quality offensive options (like Landon Donavan).

Here's a wiki link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyasi_Zardes

That's a lot of points we will be playing for during that time (and perhaps losing).What a way to run club?????

FFS Martinez BUILD UP PLAY TOO SLOW!!!!

Lack of creativity in midfield -- despite even the manager admitting this (his ongoing search for a new No 10) we still play with 2 defensive mids and have brought no-one in to rectify this. How hard is it to find someone to go in the middle with Barkley so we have two creative types there and have Macca sitting behind them protecting the defense?

Lack of cutting edge up front -- we only have one decent striker and he is not suited to the lone front man role he's been asked to play. either play two up to get the best out of him or bring another striker in who can play that role well. then bring Rom off the bench as an impact sub when the othe team are tiring.

Defensive shambles -- this is harder to solve as Martinez has proved all his career that he cannot set up a defense properly to not leak goals. I would bring in a commanding, vocal CB who will lead the others on the pitch and sort it out for the team. someone who will tell the others to get rid when needs be and stop us being such walk overs.who he replaces you decide but for now I would say Jags.

Why the manager and his staff haven't sorted out the above over the summer when it's obvious to everyone I don't know.