Watford stun Blues with pilfered goals

After the early exchanges, it was Watford who took the lead when a cross set up nicely off Jagielka for Layun to fire in. Barkley lashed home a fantastic equalizer after sustained second-half pressure. But Watford snatched a second in a rare foray, Kone replying straight away with a great finish to snatch a point.

Michael Kenrick 08/08/2015 187comments  |  Jump to last

Romelu Lukaku was judged fit enough to face Watford
Everton 2 - 2 Watford

After the early exchanges, it was Watford who took the lead when a cross set up nicely off Jagielka for Layun to fire in. Barkley lashed home a fantastic equalizer after sustained second-half pressure. But Watford snatched a second in a rare foray, Kone replying straight away with a great finish to snatch a point.

Roberto Martinez chose to start Romelu Lukaku in the first game of the new season against Watford after worries about his fitness as the injury list stretched to seven with the addition of Leighton Baines, the others being Hibbert, Gibson, Besic, Deulofeu, Pienaar and McGeady.

Brendan Galloway got the call-up at left-back after impressing last season. New contract signees McCarthy and Mirallas started for Everton. Watford kicked off, playing toward the Gwladys Street end in glorious summer sunshine.

Ross Barkley won the first corner, taken on the right by Mirallas with Stones being impeded by a Watford defender, Prödl. At the other end, Galloway covered well to deny Deeney, giving Watford a corner. All the Everton attacks were exclusively down the right, and it was fairly scrappy in the early exchanges.

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Watford put Everton under some pressure and it paid off, a cross coming off Jagielka and Layun lashing it in past Howard to put Everton on the back foot after just 14 minutes.

Coleman was finally able to cross, forcing a corner that Barry headed just over, with the help of a fist from Gomes. A corner from the left came to nothing and Everton stalled a little with players static, forcing Barry to hit it long for Lukaku.

Everton tried to work it for a shot from a central position from Barkley but it was solidly blocked Another long ball from Barry fell invitingly for Lukaku but there was too much bounce for him.

Watford were building a solid and seemingly impenetrable defence that picked off any loose ball or lack of accuracy in tight passing, forcing Barkley to wellie one from way far out.

Better play on the left, getting Cleverly involved, let Barkley shoot from an angle, a much better effort forcing a tip-over by Gomes. But it was proving very difficult for the Blues to get a decent sight of goal, with Lukaku getting nothing off Watford's centre-backs, although the big man's woeful first touch was not helping matters.

Everton's old problem of slow build-up play and static passing triangles was allowing Watford the few seconds they needed in transition to set themselves up, and resulting Blues attacks were exhibiting the frustrations all to familiar from last season. Watford pressed briefly after a spell of solid defending and it was ended by a rather nasty two-footed foul by Deeney.

Better forward play saw Coleman finally get some space to cross but it was not good enough for Lukaku to attack, and there were boos from the locals at half-time after a worryingly impotent first half.

Everton showed more desire and intent from the restart, but the quality of crosses in was not quite good enough until Barkley laid one on a plate for Lukaku at the far post but incredibly he missed the target with a very lame header.

Some much better attacks followed but the quality needed in the final third was not there, and Everton needed to be alert for the counter, Coleman getting called for a fair tackle deemed 'from behind': yellow card.

An unusual move by Martinez after the hour, Kone on for Galloway, Barry moving to left back. Cleverley delivered a great ball in for Kone but his header lacked power and direction. Mirallas went down in agony as Behrami came down with a lot of force hard on his right ankle.

Mirallas came back on and played in Coleman for a great cross but neither Kone nor Lukaku attacked it with any conviction. Crosses continued to be curled in and Kone played one back nicely for Barkley who lashed a fantastic shot into the top corner, to make the scoreline barely respectable going into the final 15 mins of a very frustrating game for the Blues. Oviedo replaced Mirallas.

Everton needed to sustain the better tempo of the second half to secure the winning goal, but the game flagged a little. Oviedo fired in a fantastic cross that Lukaku just watched, while at the other end, Deeney jinked and dodged aside of John Stones to dig out a simple shot that beat Howard all hands down to deliver a further stunning blow.

But in the next Everton attack, a better cross, played on by Kone to Lukaku saw an excellent piece of hold-up play with his back to goal, making space wide for Kone to run onto and slot an excellent shot beyond Gomes into the far corner, giving Everton a second equalizer.

Naismith replaced Lukaku for the 5 mins of added time, and Kone almost fed him a great ball as Everton pushed hard for the winner but it was Watford who finished with a flourish that underline the trouble they had caused Everton with another season opener ending in a 2-2 draw against a promoted side.

Everton: Howard; Coleman [Y:54'], Stones, Jagielka (c), Galloway (62' Kone); Barry, McCarthy; Cleverley, Mirallas (71' Oviedo), Barkley, Lukaku (90' Naismith).
Subs not Used: Robles, Osman, Browning, McAleny.

Watford:Gomes; Nyom, Cathcart, Prödl, Holebas [Y:66']; Capoue, Behrami (79' Watson); Anya, Jurado (74' Ighalo), Layun (59' Paredes); Deeney [Y:42'].
Subs not Used: Gilmartin, Angella, Pudil, Vydra.

Referee: Mike Jones

Attendance: 39,063

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Reader Comments (187)

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Trevor Lynes
1 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:30:39
As I feared the squad looks totally threadbare and my only hope is that Watford are not ready with so many debutants playing.

How on earth is any manager supposed to do well in this league with a squad like ours.This board room is an absolute disgrace starting a new season with such a poor squad.The manager has no financial backing at all.

Christy Ring
2 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:33:31
ToffeeWeb spot on about Baines injury. The same ankle he had surgery on? We have 8/9 players injured and season hasn't even started.
Who is the fitness guru???
Danny Halsall
3 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:33:44
How can we rack up so many injuries in pre-season alone. absolutely ridiculous, surely there is a trend here and the medical staff can pinpoint what is going on. Obviously injuries are part and parcel of the game but this is beyond a joke. Barkley is also a lucky boy to be starting today, because he has been hopeless throughout the whole of pre-season, hopefully he saves a performance for today!
Alex Jones
5 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:41:01
The Barry & McCarthy axis reminds me of that quote from einstein about insanity.

He has genuinely not learnt a thing from last year. Still at least Lukaku is fit and he's picked Mirallas over Naismith.

Martin OSullivan
7 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:47:53
While not enthused about the starting eleven, especially the Barry and MCarthy holding duo, it appears to be the best eleven available.
Simon Smith
8 Posted 08/08/2015 at 14:54:39
Who are the 9?

Who else are we missing that would feature?

James Byrne
9 Posted 08/08/2015 at 15:26:08
Watford might have "stunned" Everton but they haven't stunned me. I saw enough within an hour at the testimonial to see Martinez hadn't learned anything from last season.

It was obvious Watford were coming to their first Prem game all guns blazing, although that wouldn't have registered with this clown of a manager.

Bill Gall
11 Posted 08/08/2015 at 15:42:13
Watching the game I see no difference from last season. Opposition allowing Everton to play around in their own half and then pressing them at the half-way line. No Everton player to open up a packed defense and no wing play supported.
Donald Twain
12 Posted 08/08/2015 at 15:49:40
No idea where we go from here or what we can do to change direction, without a complete overhaul of manager and board!!
Eric Owen
16 Posted 08/08/2015 at 15:58:31
We are really missing Baines. Galloway doesn't seem to have any confidence. It was his mistake kicking the ball out instead of letting it go for a goal kick that kept the ball in Everton's end.
I agree with Bill Gall, just like last year.
Why am I watching this junk?

Let's hope the second half is an improvement.
Must say I thought Deeney should have had a straight red for the tackle on Galloway.

Mike Green
17 Posted 08/08/2015 at 16:56:18
That was terrible. Martinez has to go, one game in and I've seen all I need to.
Neil Thomas
18 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:00:26
That's the games you have to get 3 points at. Playing Watford at home we need to be picking a more attacking team, not Barry and McCarthy again together. By now RM must realise that's not the best best midfield pairing.
Steve Pugh
19 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:00:31
Let's take the positives from this. Maybe, just maybe Ross and Kone will get some confidence from their goals.

That's it really.

Rest of it was pretty dire.

Galloway was okay I suppose, but then RM decided Barry would do a better job. Idiot.

Clive Rogers
20 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:00:55
If that squad is not strengthened, it will be Championship football next season.
Gary Carter
21 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:03:45
He’s just hopeless as a manager, I’m sorry! Every game we have to try and score three goals because we always concede two which is never gonna happen because we don’t play with any drive or pace.

This is probably the best Everton team and squad in Premier League history and he can’t do anything with it. Time for Bill to show a bit of spine and get rid of him.
Bill Gall
22 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:05:01
I can only hope that Martinez after that second half starts to realize that the game is 90 min plus stoppages.
Neil Thomas
23 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:05:55
Are all you doubter still against us signing Charlie Austin after that performance? Yeah the Barkley goal was brilliant, but ain’t that a game we should be putting to bed by half time? What’s going to happen when we play teams like Chelsea away when we can’t win at home to Watford?
Mike Anson
24 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:06:12
At least we got something from the game but this simply isn’t good enough. When you look at our next 4 fixtures, all games against these sides last season, gave us 0 points.

After 5 games we could be in the relegation zone, if so surely the board have to act. Out of the first games this should have been a 3 pt banker.

On the BBC sport site it showed Rom’s positional heatmap, he must have been 85-90%% outside of the opposition penalty area. Why pay all that money and not play to his strengths!!!

First half sounded like the turgid displays of most of last season, as James (4) and Bill (5) say.

If history repeats itself, Bob’s days could be numbered? He’s really got to start upping his game, otherwise surely even Bill won’t stand for it!!

The only positive points, at least we got a point and we must be equal top of the fair play league

Eric Owen
25 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:07:34
Don’t know what RM put in the half time cup of tea but I hope he has a lot more.

Everton showed they can go forward when they are allowed to do it instead of passing it across the field then back again.

replacing Galloway was the best move and I guess ,seeing he was replaced by Kone, Kone is now in everyone’s good books, at least for this week (he scored #2 and passed back to Barkley for his goal). Still I had shivers running up my back each time Watford attacked as IMO Everton allow too much space in mid field.

Much like last year facing a promoted team for the first game, 2-2 but this time it was Everton that equalized. That apart, we still need some new players.

Ross Edwards
26 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:09:37
Same old from last season. He kept saying he and the players had learnt, but quite clearly we haven't. The first half was dire. Terrible.

The 2nd half was much improved so that is a plus but we struggled through that game and Kone saved RM's skin there because if we had lost he would have got roasted by that crowd at full time.

Phil McNulty tweeted applauding Watford's performance, whilst saying that we were 'as dull and unadventurous as last season.'

I think he sums it up really. Just not good enough. 3 opening day 2-2 draws in a row now for RM, against beatable teams.

Kunal Desai
27 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:10:31
Scrapping a point against a promoted side. I really do worry where we will be by the end of October.
Neil Thomas
28 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:10:42
Just saw we're 5th in the league. Better celebrate now because playing like that it’s the highest we’re going to be this season.

Hope these new signing come in before next game and not have to wait till deadline day as usual for them, because by then we could find that we have lost to many points to challenge for a spot in Europe.
Steve Cotton
29 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:12:25
Couple of terrible tackles by Deeny and Behrami both should have seen red.
Steve Cotton
30 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:12:25
Couple of terrible tackles by Deeny and Behrami both should have seen red.
David Donnellan
31 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:16:09
If my memory serves me correctly, the last 3 opening games of the season have all finished 2-2? Against sides we should be beating.

Disappointing result today, only positive thing I can take from the game, is that we came back twice, got to do better though. I hope it does get better after this!

Bill Gall
32 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:17:27
Eric Do you think it was maybe the crowd booing them off the pitch at the end of the first half that livened them up, rather than a half time team talk.
Chris Wilson
33 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:19:03
Well, could have been better, could have been real bad too. It seemed like everything was going against us. We looked heck of a lot better in the second half. Kone, showed up, and I really think that Roberto needs to consider playing a second striker alongside Rom. It opens up so much in the box for us. Great strike by Ross, I thought Coleman did well to get into the attack.

I'm concerned about our defensive discipline. We seemed to really panic when Watford players had the ball in our defensive third. Our one-on-one defense is really poor and we get disorganized; we don't get tight enough, and maybe that will change as the fitness levels improve. I don't know if we are ever going to be solid enough to play three at the back.

Was interesting, I don't know if anyone else picked-up on this, but Stones didn't look as comfortable late in the game. We were pushing up looking for goals, and he was kind on an island by himself at times and didn't look composed to me; made some bad decisions. In fact, I thought he slowed the game down way too much coming out of the back - seemed to take forever making a decision when he had the ball.

Concerned for Mirallas. Hope that challenge he took just rolled his ankle.

Overall, wanted 3 points, but I was impressed by our recovery and I'm going to look at this as a positive result, because we look to be better fitness-wise and we never quit. Still need to get our timing back with regards to our passing game. Much different feeling coming out of this game than the opening match last season.

Andrew Clare
34 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:21:39
It’s quite clear that we need two or three exceptional players. Two of then should be creative.

First half was terrible. Much better in the second half. Glad for Kone that he scored, he has had a nightmare time since he signed for us.

Jamie Barlow
36 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:23:52
I thought the second half was alright. We need more urgency as we did last season. When we speed it up, we look so much better. The first half was shite, but not as bad as some of the shite written on the live forum.

Well done Ross and Kone. Hopefully those goals will give two lads who lack confidence a massive lift and put a firework up Lukaku's arse.

Jay Harris
37 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:26:00
Same old same old under Martinez.

We stand off the opposition too much and can't trouble the opposition keeper.

For their first goal we had 8 players in the box but still couldn’t close them down.

I thought we did play a lot better in the second half but were always chasing the game.

All too familiar unfortunately.

Paul Tran
38 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:31:31
Positives: we hung in and dug out a result. We showed we can play quicker, get the ball into the box and create chances. Cleverley looks like a good signing to me. Kone looked sharp when he came on and had the first touch we'd love from Lukaku.

Negatives: dire first half suggests Martinez hadn't learnt. Back four keeps standing off inviting opposition - lead to their excellently-taken second goal.

Still need a strong centre half, playmaker and striker. The right buys, with the display we showed in the second half, will see us right.

It wouldn't worry me if we sell Stones. He won't make the difference for us right now - we desperately need a strong centre half and he isn't that yet. You can't get away from the fact that he's part of a back four that stands off, lack discipline and leaks goals. Keeping Stones is more of the ego-filled strategy that saw us paying over the odds for Lukaku.

Andy Crooks
39 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:31:58
A draw against a team who will likely be relegated. More of the same. Please let us not hear allegations of negativity. Not reacting after one game is ludicrous. This was a very poor show against a very poor side. Martinez will be sacked because he's an utterly inept coach but it will not happen soon enough.

The result was really not what hurts, it is the same mindless, insipid coaching that leads to it that is hard to take.

Tony Twist
40 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:32:22
Getting fried, crisped and dried over here in Portugal and all I could think about is the match. I might as well not bothered. Get rid of this joke of a manager.

Give him 10 games? Not a chance, he has had more than enough games. We are an embarrassment.

Christy Ring
41 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:33:02
No change. Same crap from Bob. Sideways and backwards, too too slow. Watford made 400 less passes and created more chances.
He's found a new position for Barry, enough is enough.
Paul Jeronovich
43 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:38:39
It's as if Martinez waits for us to go behind before he pulls his finger out with more attacking play. If we did that from the start we would be ahead in more matches. So fucking frustrating.
Paul Andrews
44 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:40:23
Very poor performance first half. Improved in the second half when we upped the tempo.
Milos Milenkovic
45 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:41:04
How is it possible that he can’t realize that playing with two defensive midfielders is main problem with this team? It’s like playing with 10 men. That is obvious for 12 months, yet he again started the season using it.

Furthermore to play at home, against Watford with defensive midfield is embarrassing. So again Martinez needed to wait 60 minutes of total dross and result of 0-1, to remove Barry from midfield and final 30 minutes, playing with one defensive midfielder we won 2-1. Will he ever learn?

Jim Bennings
46 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:41:47
Utter shite.

We learnt nothing at all other than that we know we are in for a long hard slog.

Can't defend as a team, don't press quickly enough or close down.

Only positives were goals for Barkley and Kone.

The rest was turgid dross and a lack of investment with the same manager shows.

Ian Riley
47 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:43:47
Don’t managers reflect on previous seasons! Slow and predictable with no end product! Well done to all those fans who pay to watch that crap! Can not see a win coming in the next five games! Does the Chairman give the manager funds or let him go?

Please up the pace or we are in deep trouble!

Teddy Bertin
51 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:48:23
Told you Kone would score! Tenner well spent. I would have happily traded it for 3 points though. In fact, I would have happily traded it for a draw but some clear signs that this is a team that is going to start pulling teams apart. No sign of that at all. Great strike from Ross though. He needed that.
Jim Bennings
52 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:48:38
In the meantime a club that invested very wisely despite finishing above us last season, Crystal Palace, win 3-1 away at Norwich with Cabaye scoring.

I’m sorry but if you're passing up a win, a virtual gimme at home on the opening day when you look at our fixture list, it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Gavin Johnson
53 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:53:06
I think some of the criticism is far too excessive. The team's on the bones of its arse with injuries and in terms of first days of seasons there’s been a lot worse in recent seasons. What about losing to the newly promoted QPR when Davie Moyes was manager?!

Of course it’s frustrating not to win but the second half display was fast attacking football, hardly the type of football to be calling for the manager to be sacked. We’ve got players to come back from injury and we’ll have three quality additions by September 1st.

After seeing the impact Kone made in the second half ,I’m adamant we need to be playing more games with 2 strikers (I’d like to see a 3-5-2 personally) fingers crossed we do bring in Charlie Austin because the potential of him playing alongside Rom is frightening.

Finally, well done to Ross and Kone. Barkley’s goal was exceptional and the cards finally fell right for Kone. He still could make an impact in some games but one good display doesn’t take away the obvious need for another proven goalscorer.

Neil Thomas
55 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:56:40
Clive Wilson,

You said we will improve when our fitness levels are up, but what’s the difference between our fitness levels now and other teams?

Surely all teams are in the same boat. We make excuses at end of season saying players have had a long tiring season, but one game in and we’re making excuses saying they ain’t played enough.

These are well paid full time professional sportsmen. Do you see any other sport where there are so many excuses for poor fitness? Do you see a boxer for instance saying, "Well, yeah he knocked me out because I wasn’t fit enough and couldn’t be bothered training harder"?

No, they have had plenty of time to get fit and up to speed. Simple answer is they just ain’t good enough to compete at the top level with the current squad we have.

Dave Abrahams
56 Posted 08/08/2015 at 17:57:34
I will wait until the end of the transfer window to see who comes in; we definitely need some new players with pace.

Jay Harris (19) said all I wanted to say about the game plus complete lack of movement, bit better in the second half.

Martinez looks like he’ll be carrying on playing as last season; it will be his downfall if he does. Maybe he can’t or won't play any other way.

Paul Ferry
57 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:05:54
Dave - 30 - Martinez changed things and switched to two up front and we got a draw out of it which still pisses me off but it's better than losing.
Tony Marsh
58 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:06:30
Where the fuck has the side that demolished Man Utd by playing fast counter-attacking football gone? That display was the best by a mile under Martinez yet, soon after and to present day, Martinez reverts to type.

Today was shocking and embarrassing for a so-called top 6 side. Watford are awfull yet caused us tons of trouble. The main problem we have is Blue Bill. He can't put any money in and he doesn't sack shite managers.

We are fucked on this showing and if I was Stones I would be off like a shot. FFS, Bill, show me the money .

Kev Thomas
59 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:09:09
Well that's between £500,000 and £700,000 that the erm players have hoovered up this week.

They have trained for a couple of times though.

If I was the manager these bell ends would be doing a proper 9-5 not some bullshit 2 hour training then free lunch then more easy training.

Beyond a joke. Piss poor and exactly the same style of play as last season.

Give Roberto the Order of the Brown Boot and if the boot isn't brown when it comes out, you aren't kicking him hard enough.

Dennis Ng
60 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:09:26
Our attacking intent is good but the defensive organization is just insanely poor when it is needed most.
Kev Thomas
61 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:13:03
Dennis Ng (#32)

Our attacking intent is predictable and the defensive organization is just insanely poor when it is needed most.

Neil Thomas
62 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:13:46
£35M for Stones don’t seem to bad now. When you look at what we could get for that I would be inclined to take it.

Problem with our transfer policy is that we keep looking to the future, but as an Everton fan we want the players and the results right now.

Paul Kennedy
63 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:15:06
We are hurting because we care; we are putting words down to try to express how let down, low and dejected we feel at the start of the season.

Do we really think our manager or players will care as much? They still get paid, win, lose or draw. No soul at the club!!!

Christy Ring
64 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:15:20
Delighted that Kone equalised, but hope the rumours about Charlie Austin are true, and Bob doesn't get carried away.
Craig Harrison
65 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:16:27
We can't play Barkley and Barry in the same midfield; Barkley can't / won't tackle and Barry isn’t quick enough to tackle anymore. This usually results in 2 or 3 opposition players running past Barkley and Barry and attacking McCarthy who gets pulled out wide leaving a big whole in the middle. Both goals came from the center as a result.
Terence Tipler
66 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:20:32
I thought John Stones played very well today.
Chris Wilson
67 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:20:49
Good post, Gavin Johnson #29. Too many folks watching the game with a preconceived axe to grind and will always highlight the negative points, while ignoring anything positive.

Now I'm not saying we should be ecstatic by what we saw today, but let's not go nuts here. We definitely need to iron out some bugs in our system, we need to get fit, need to get some fresh new players, and we need to get our injured players up and running. Let's give this a chance; it is a marathon, not a much shorter race competed at a very high rate of speed (sprint - just didn't want to sound cliche).

Chris Wilson
68 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:22:10
And we just saw Ki go off the Chelsea match with a hammie. See, it’s not only us!
Jim Bennings
69 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:24:19
We need Charlie Austin if fir nothing else to keep Mr Offside (Rom Lukaku) on his toes.
Colin Glassar
70 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:26:09
Haven't seen the game but is it true we actually finished quite strong? Last season we were usually knackered after an hour.

Charlie Nichols, who's usually quite complimentary (a big mate of OFM) towards us was pretty scathing about our 1st half performance. I imagine the booing at half time shamed them into improving 2nd half.

As Alan Smith (Chelsea - Swansea) just said it usually takes at least six games for most players to get up to speed. I'm not making excuses but let's keep some things in context.

Dennis Ng
71 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:27:54
Colin, first half bad, second half good. Not sure if the story changed from last year.
Mick Boyd
72 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:28:25
When is Barry going to be dropped! 44 games 0 goals. He is slowest player in Premier League, also 10 bookings.
Matt Muzi
73 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:31:56
Anyone who thinks that there may be a few bugs to iron out and we shouldn’t be too negative about today’s game is deluded and I’m sorry if that offends anyone.

The same problems from last season: too slow, no direct passing, no movement off the ball, players lacking confidence, or desire, a striker who doesn’t understand the offside rule, or know how to create space between him and the opposition centre halves; playing central midfielders as wingers... I could go on.

They fielded 7 new players today, we were very lucky to get a point today, we can possess the ball all game but if we do nothing with it what’s the point???

Derek Turner
75 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:33:42
Fuck it, so much for optimism. I think I will go find a large rock to crawl under. Fucking Watford. At home. It's not criticism, just a horrible Fat Spanish FACT.
Andrew Clare
76 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:35:50
I have no confidence in the manager but really Kenwright and co are the real culprits. The Telegraph sound surprised that our fans are booing at half time but I'm not we are a big club that is being run into the ground by a totally unambitious board. We have had over 20 years with very few highlights and the frustration is reaching boiling point.
Jim Knightley
77 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:36:30
Standard last season stuff, even if it is hard to judge an opening match. But I strongly believe that we are going to experience what we experienced last year: Lukaku being isolated, because of the lack of creativity behind him. A lack of balls into dangerous areas, and ponderous passing back and forth. Defenders pushing too far forward, leaving gaps for counter attacks. The result? We will be neither efficient going forward or at the back.

We desperately need creativity, and to play in a way which suits our record buy. We also need someone other than Martinez arranging our defence.

Signings will help, but I struggle to see how we will be any higher than 15th come the end of October. The boos will be resounding then.

Brent Stephens
78 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:39:19
Before I throw myself off the roof, can I just say I'm pleased that Galloway didn't disgrace himself, far from it; and Barkley's goal was one that few other of our players could score; and there are nice new toilets in the Upper Bullens.
Jim Bennings
79 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:40:11
Stan Collymore makes a good point about what is it with Everton and the way we keep on conceding goals?
He goes on to say "is this the Achilles Heel of Roberto Martinez".

Of course it is!

This calender year too many limited teams have waltzed into Goodison Park and scored two goals and Watford you have to say did little in the way of attacking but managed to score twice, until we rectify this problem there's no way we can go in the right direction.

It got bad under Moyes at times of course it did, but in the main he got a team, especially at Goodison, that could eek out clean sheets.

The trouble with Martinez is he holds us back as an attacking force by starting every match with 4-5-1, its so restricting yet at the same time we are far from solid defensively with it, so frankly it doesn't work anymore!

He needs to realise there are certain games where you need to sacrifice a central defensive midfielder for a striker partner for Lukaku.

Nigel Gregson
80 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:42:07
I don't know why people have been so negative on the result. There are no ’gimmes’ in this league. Early games against these recently promoted teams are always tricky. Remember Leicester last year ? Or Norwich the year before ? Or the loss at QPR (we didn’t even have bobby to blame back then)?

The story has changed from last year. Us turning the tables in the second half shows that the players are fitter. Us fighting back, shows the players are more determined. Us earning a draw and fighting back TWICE gives us confidence (compared to us throwing away a 1-0 or 2-0 lead).

Jim Bennings
81 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:44:08
Swansea look a really good side, but then they did last season too!

It's amazing what you can achieve with a limited budget if your manager is bold and wise with a plan that actually works.

Nigel Gregson
82 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:49:53
Jim looking at that game too, great fight shown by the Swans and some really good football with limited(?) players. It really throws egg in the face of all the supporters here calling for a reversion to long ball because we don't have the players to play a passing style bla bla. One thing Swansea did, however, was stuck with their style through thick and thin
Andy Crooks
83 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:54:22
The opening day of the season, good crowd, good atmosphere and a willingness to do well. Last season's ineptitude put aside. All forgiven, come on Roberto.Then, that.

If Martinez was a new coach I'd be happy to wait and see. However,he is the coach who stood, gormless on the sideline at Southampton last year. The worst performance by a coach I have ever seen. What on earth will it take to stop the excuses?

I would ask any Evertonian if they believe that this coach, given the excellent salary on offer, is the best we can do. He is, in my view, utterly uninspiring.

Mike Childs
84 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:54:45
If he rolls out any formation that doesn't include 2 strikers up top next week he should be sacked immediately. Rom's lack of consistent hold up play spoils any chance of a single striker formation working. Still would rather see Robles as Howard's moon balls to start the offense are terrible. They either miss the man or give the opposition all day to set their defense up.
Colin Glassar
85 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:56:06
Swansea are good but how bad are the champions? They looks slow and sluggish
Andy Walker
86 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:56:23
Colin 45, you're always making excuses for our poor results mate. At home to a newly promoted side, Watford, yes that's Watford FFS and having to score a late equaliser to scramble a point. It simply isn't good enough, end of.

But is wasn't a such big shock really bearing in mind how shit we were for most of last season and nothing has really changed this season, so normal service is simply being resumed.

Conceding 2 goals at home to this side is a further demonstration of the continued defensive frailties. If Chelsea still want to pay us £30m for Stones then bite their hand off. He is not the finished article and will not become a better defender whilst under Martinez's management. He probably knows that though.

Colin Glassar
87 Posted 08/08/2015 at 18:58:25
See post #57 Andy. This isn't something new. We are slow starters.
Chris Wilson
88 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:00:38
Sorry Matt Muzi, I don't really see myself as deluded, I'm just trying to look at the game from a slightly optimistic point of view; which on this board is what ToffeeWebers call...rare.

Key players are out, our timing is off; we're not up to speed yet. It's the first match of the season for God sake, and some folks have already thrown in the towel. What I find frustrating is that some aren't even willing to let us get better, they just want to hate - they WANT to moan. If we had beaten Watford 5-0, people would still find something to bitch about.

Dean Adams
89 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:00:42
If only the master (Martinez) could learn from the pupil(monk)
Colin Metcalfe
90 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:05:32
I agree Dean , watching the. swans now and they look miles ahead of us ! Worrying times indeed .
Danny O'Neill
91 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:06:30
I think that's 3 x 2-2 results on the first day of the season from Roberto. Based on the last 2, which way will this one go?!!
Mike Childs
92 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:09:17
Courtois red card for denying a goal scoring opportunity also comes with a 3 game suspension right?
Colin Glassar
93 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:09:42
4th worst opening day record in prem history. This is not a recent event.
Joe Foster
94 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:11:40
Chris W if we had beat them 5-0 I don't think anyone would have complained. The fact is we didn't . What I find frustrating is the excuses you are willing to give RM.
Mark Robson
95 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:12:18
Watching Swansea and hate to say it but Shelvey is exactly what we haven't got in our midfield. A forward thinking passer trying to split defenders. I despair at ours who all play the same way. I couldn't believe it today when one of them did find space around them ahead of the other two and immediately passed the ball back when they had the field ahead of them. We desperately need a change in there !
William Cartwright
96 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:12:31
Well Lyndon, not much positive in that. Very poor specator fare in the 1st half but some good effort in the 2nd. However its 2 points dropped with a very difficult run of games ahead. Just watched the 1st half of the Chelski / Swansea game and both teams seemed off a different planet. Fast, aggressive running into space off the ball, Ayew looks some player, why we are / have? been left behind by Swansea beats me. There is an absolute consistent fact to the football under Roberto; 2 defensive midfielders and slow sideways passing is killing the game. It must change soon. Roberto is digging his own grave. Unless he runs the club like his own personal fiefdom then surely the management support staff must be able to have some influence upon his thinking. The results and the manner of play, don't seem to have any impact on him at all. Seriously worrying times ahead.
Eugene Ruane
97 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:12:52
Fuck me that was shocking, depressing and frustrating in equal measure.

I've said before that while we have our present board of shifty inept bums, I've 'accepted' we're not in this to win things (anymore), but surely we can expect the very basics.

Surely we can expect fellers on thirty/forty/fifty grand a fuckin' week to give more than...that! (to be better than....that!)

Remember all those things ('the basics') that were drummed into you (by your dad or a Junior school teacher) when you were 7/8/9/10?

"Talk to each other, don't pass the ball across the face of your own goal, find a man, look across your line, move out together, stop them getting their cross in"

We did NONE of those things, we had players giving the ball away time after time after fucking time, we had players being robbed of the ball because there was no shout (is this the quietest Everton team in history?).

If ever a team needed a big mouthed nark who despises losing, it's us (even if he was a dead average player, right now we need such a man).

Last week on TW I described our losing (nb: losing!) performance against Villarreal as follows..

"Pass.....pass.... .pass.....pass.....pass....pass-pass-pass...pass...pass...pass...pass-pass...passpasspass....PASSPASS...give the fucking ball away...........chase....chase....chase...chase....chase-chase....CHASE... etc (and by the way, their chasing was twice as..um..'chasey' as ours)"

Today (certainly in the first half) this was exactly how we played...again.

Making the same mistakes, over and over and over and over and fucking over and...


(how long before someone says 'it isn't fucking well working!')

What we are doing is so bad, so pointless and ineffective, it actually looks like we are deliberately wasting time when we're losing - that is what it actually looks like.

One nil down at home, yet Howard is piss-balling about deciding "shall I put the ball there or....maybe here....or no I'll pass to....no I'll welly it"

Nothing passes for no reason to no end....and we're losing.

Oh and insult to injury, we were muscled off just about every ball.

And they made every 50/50 ball 60/40 in their favour.

And they were generally quicker.

And calmer.

And worked harder.

And they're fucking...Watford.

David Israel
98 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:13:55
Hey! The Guardian is saying we're about to sign Xherdan Shaqiri, a.k.a. the Alpine Messi, on loan from Inter Milan.

I know this is off-topic, but what can I say about the game that hasn't already been said (and seen before)?

Chris Gould
99 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:16:44
Eugene 77, I wish our players would show some of your fire!!

Mark 75, I completely agree regarding Shelvey, a very similar but fitter version of Gibson.

Michael Polley
100 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:20:31
Gavin, I agree. We need forwards up front. Lukaku struggled on his own with little or no support.

Barkley had a good 1st half, but disappeared in the 2nd until he scored that cracker.
Our play was more direct after we went behind.

Kone had good day at the office, and saved our skin today.

Andy Crooks
101 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:24:03
Chris, # 68, your post is unfair.No one wants to hate and moan. This game cannot simply be judged as the first game of the season. In my view it should be looked at as a continuation of last season. Where there signs of a new Martinez, a new outlook, a new , less jaw dropping arrogance, I'd take your viewpoint. It seems to me that little has been learned.We should have been up.for this game in a huge way.

Would you not agree that the first half was a shameful embarrassment? Did you see signs of great stuff to come? Do you believe that , in some strange way, Martinez is unlucky? What will be your breaking point?

I honestly think that there are some Evertonians who will state, some day, that Roberto is the right man to get us back into the premier league.

Forget injuries, bad luck, opening day staleness, we dropped two points against a very poor side, we did the same too often last season.

James Stewart
102 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:25:20
@77 Pretty accurate. The poor play and elementary mistakes are critical and once again we gift the opposition goals and points.

The biggest disappointment for me is seeing Coleman and Galloway getting forward time after time only for no one to make a run on the overlap. Literally no one. Why sign wingers if we have no intention of using the width of the pitch?

Not a great surprise to anyone who watches us play that as soon as we switch from the beloved formation and stick 2 up top we score a couple of goals. Watford will be relegated and that was 2 vital points dropped.

Different season, nothing learned.

Andy Crooks
103 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:29:26
Eugene, Jonny Evans is the man you are referring to. He will not accept feebleness from his team mates. He will not be signed be cause he will not accept limpdickedness from the coach either. And that is the sort of coach we have.

Mark Tanton
104 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:35:34
Well well well, another summer of malaise is followed by a slow and frustrating start. Who'd have predicted.
Max Fine
105 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:35:57
Terrible ponderous first half but then the crowd took the captains armband and let the players know how they should play, resulting in a much improved second half performance.

Galloway did OK although not a patch on an injury free Baines. One for the future.

Coleman showed early flashes of his 2013/14 attacking performances but also some of the glaring defensive frailties that marred his early first team appearances. Got turned inside out for Watford's first goal in an almost identical manner to the Villa Real goal.

Jagielka needs to take motivational lessons from big Dunc. He also needs to head with his eyes open when clearing the ball - that way it might end up at a team mates feet for a change.

Stones looked assured and made the game look easy up until being screwed into the ground by Watford's second goal. Him and Jags don't make a good pairing, and when isolated Stones does not look a £30 million defender.

Mirallas was one of the few stand out players of the first half and looked the only goal threat in the first 45. Hope his substitution was a precautionary one

Barkley did the difficult things well and made a hash of the easy. Needs to be told to collect the ball in midfield more as when he did we looked dangerous through the middle. Superb goal though and I would keep him in the team.

McCarthy had a poor game. Huffing and puffing round the pitch is not a good enough return for a bumper new contract. Needs to take more responsibility for passing FOWARDS and with ACCURACY instead of always choosing the safe backwards option.

Barry still one of the few players who can spot a quick forward pass, but his legs aren't keeping pace with his brain. Did well at LB.

Cleverly's passing was far superior to his midfield compatriots, but that's not saying much. Also struggled to identify what his role in the team was tbh.

Lukaku is not a lone striker. Nor is he good at hold up play. Played and looked so much better when Kone came on.

Kone did well, a goal and an assist, looked composed and can make a pass that matters in the final third. If Naismith didn't wear cement boots he'd have added a second assist to his game.

Hard to say how Howard did, his only involvement seemed to be picking the ball out of the net twice.

Overall not too disappointed with the result against a strong, well organised Watford side who got away with far too many pushes on our players and against a fat ref who couldn't keep out of the way of play.

Tom Evans
106 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:36:43
Watford held to a draw by Everton, screams the BBC sport website.
Sounds like a good result. What's up with you all?
Terence Tipler
107 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:39:05
Early days yet Players to come back from injuries, and two or three fresh faces things will look better. Well done to the fans today, who got right behind the team from the off
Martin Mason
108 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:39:49
Eugene, the board doesn't make them play pass-pass football. The board appoint a manager/coach and it is him who dictates how they play when they take the pitch.

Blame the board for appointing the wrong manager by all means but not how the team plays. If they have done so then they need to rectify it by firing RM but can the club really take this level of disruption? Even I think we can't.

I didn't see today's game and can't comment on how we played but the result wasn't good. A promoted side tipped for relegation and at home. A poor result but we can only hope because that is perhaps all that's left now.

Liam Gould
109 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:42:21
Everton have been poor for a while now and what we watch on match day has to be what he is teaching them through the week in training and it’s an utter disgrace.

He’s ripped the heart and soul out of the team, no direction lack of balance during large parts of the game and clueless when we have the ball.

Why are we not playing to playing to players strengths, like balls in front of Lukaku (just an example) to run on to or at defenders? Because we know he ain’t a target man - he wouldn’t win a header against Mini me!

Denis Richardson
110 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:43:28
First half was instantly forgettable. 45 mins at home to a newly promoted side and we didn't manage one poxy shot on target. Their keeper didn't have to make a single save. Two months to build up to that turgid shite.

Second half the team was better and showed more attacking intent. Whether that was down to the HT team talk or the boos from the crowd, we'll never know. However, although we were better going forward our defence again looked about as safe as a fart in a net. Whatever they do at Finch Farm sure isn't working defensively. I posted somewhere else that the main thing we need to do is sort out the defence as we leaked far too many goals last season - conceding two at home to Watford does not bode well.

The back 5 had 4 internationals and on top of that there are 2 CDMs in front of them and still everytime Watford came at us, we were nervy. Our defence is simply crap right now, Stones or no Stones. Why do we need 2CDMs at home against a newly promoted side? They scored after 14 mins anyway!

Before the start of the game, the one result I really didn't want was a draw. At least had we lost we'd be closer to getting rid of this clown we have as a manager. Sorry have zero faith in this manager, not even 1%. The guy is a stubborn tit who thinks he's discovered some magical new way of playing football - which a) doesn't work and b) is f'king boring to watch.

Looking forward to S'ton away, then city, then spurs, then chelsea. Time for a holiday.

Jay Harris
111 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:47:10
I know a lot of supporters love Lukaku but for me he is so one dimensional.

He cant head a ball, trap a ball, has the touch of an elephant and cant run around much either.

I looked at Gomis and Ayew today and still wonder why we paid 28 million for him.

Chris Gould
112 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:50:19
Last season was terrible. Why would this season be any different? Very similar squad and same one dimensional coach. Very hard to understand how or why people continue to defend these performances.
The system and style of play doesn't work with these players. Chelsea use it to good effect, but they have a lone striker who works his nuts off, and Fabregas who passes forward with a high tempo and gets about 20 assists a season.
It's incredibly frustrating to know that he is going to set us up in the same way every single game and think it will suddenly click with these players.
Paul Andrews
113 Posted 08/08/2015 at 19:57:11
Cleverly, Barry and McCarthy should never be in the same starting eleven at home against the likes of Watford.

The opposition are letting us have the ball in our own half and on the halfway line. While we are passing square and back they are organising themselves. It’s like a defensive coaching drill

Trevor Lynes
114 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:03:36
Stop blaming the manager for the boardroom decisions. Our squad is threadbare and we are being run by the Oyston's (Blackpool) doppelgangers who won't spend money.

No investment for years and the fans blame the manager.

Just take a look at the bench and the 9 or 10 first team squad members who are out injured.It is too weak to compete in the top division and unless serious money is provided to buy players we will be in dire trouble.

Watching Swansea today fully illustrates how poor we are. Swansea are a club with low support compared to us who finished in their best ever league position last season. They played really well today and Shelvey made them tick with great long forward passes to two strikers and a really fast winger.

It is not only Swansea that are improving and we will do exceptionally well to finish in the top half. Every club has invested in their squads and we are languishing having spent nothing. We need to buy in the first month of the transfer window to get new players bedded in properly. Leaving all the business until the last week or so is ridiculous. It is the board who are at fault and the manager is just the patsy taking the flak.

Matt Muzi
115 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:09:11
Chris Wilson I think others have covered what would be my response to your comments @68. However I'll respond to some of your points a little further:

I don't want to moan and I don't hate anyone/anything, hate is a very strong word in my opinion.

Also the injury situation, most of which are hamstrings, a recurrent problem since RM arrived.....

But yes I am moaning because for some reason our first team seem determined to play a system that doesn't work, suit the players, or is effective. Now that is very much down to one person in my opinion, who either won't change it, is oblivious to the issue, or can't change it.

After seeing this issue for some time, which others on here can see as well and nothing happening to sort it out, it does get very frustrating.

Also I can assure you I wouldn't be moaning at all if we won 5-0, but we were lucky to get a point today.

The issue I have is that our weaknesses were glaringly obvious last season, nothings been done about it. Lesser teams are coming to Goodison to get a result, they know how to set up against us and how to play against us and with no signs of our manager doing anything about it, I feel, we could find ourselves in a seriously bad situation very swiftly.

Ross Edwards
116 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:15:42
I was just watching Swansea get a well deserved draw with an excellent performance at Stamford Bridge and it got me thinking.

Monk is everything Martinez isn't. He's far superior tactically. His team plays exciting, attacking football, they're well organised, well balanced and hard to break down, good on the counter attack, his players are in their preferred positions and know their roles in the team.

His team has good width and decent wingers, whereas we are so narrow and toothless going forward because of RM's obsession with playing one winger in a 4-2-3-1 system. Note to Roberto: IT DOESN'T WORK!

Martinez is the complete opposite. We play boring, predictable sideways rubbish, we are definitely not well organised, especially defensively, usually our counter attacks break down or end up going backwards or sideways again, he constantly plays people out of position, his subs are bizarre, I mean, Barry at left back???

Martinez rode off the Moyes organisation and structure that was put in place. Now he has fully implemented his system and it's a shambles. Defensively woeful again. The defending for the 2nd goal was shocking.

He quite clearly hasn't learnt and is still as stubborn as ever. We've been long worked out. Maybe someone could remind Roberto of that?

Chris Gould
117 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:17:31
RM has shown that he will not stray from his system. If he isn't going to be sacked then we're stuck with it. It isn't a number 10 that we're crying out for. It's a striker who can make the system work.

If you're a lone striker then you have to work so bloody hard for ninety mins. You have to work the channels, harass the hell out of the cb's and not give them a minute's peace. You also need to hold the ball up and bring others into play. Lukaku does not have any of the attributes needed. He doesn't have the ability or attitude.

Don't get me wrong, in another system with tactics playing to his strengths, he could score 20 league goals a season.
But if RM persists with this system then he needs to buy another striker and get rid of Rom. For Rom's own confidence, he should leave as RM's system will slowly destroy him. Square peg in round hole. Change the system or change the lone striker. It's simple.

Gavin Johnson
118 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:18:37
I think the positives were that we didn't look as sluggish as last seasons opener and it looks like the team are fitter this time round, thanks to a more thorough pre-season. They kept up the momentum until the final whistle and I thought it was an entertaining game in the 2nd half.

Watford pressed us in the first half and there was sense of deja-vu with some of the passing. The 2nd half was a different story and I don't think it was an accident we became more direct with the introduction of Kone. There were games towards the end of last season when it was the same story. The only difference was that Kone actually scored today, where as last season we saw a lot of effort and not a lot of anything else. So if we do bring in a quality striker, like Austin. I think we'll be a lot more direct and will win a lot more games with another capable goalscorer who can take the pressure off Rom.

I'd like to see a formation with 2 strikers from the get-go, instead of it being used to chase games. If we do bring another quality striker in the question has been posed whether they will come and sign to sit on the bench. I have the feeling we'll see more games with two strikers and the reason it's only happening as a plan B at the moment is because we don't have the players.

Bill Gall
119 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:28:29
I agree with the comments that we definitely need a couple more players, the only thing that I see that may be a negative is, (a) will B.K. release enough funds to purchase at least 1, possibly 2 , quality players and (b) will our present manager "know" were to go to buy quality players that will not be square pegs in round holes.

As far as supporters shouting for the manager to be fired, as far as I can see,with his stubborn refusal to change a style that is not working, he is doing a good enough job himself to get fired.

This comment of give him 10 games to prove himself IMO is not going to make B.K. change his mind ,as he will hate to admit he made a mistake in hiring a manager, who is now into his seventh season in the premiership with only 1 successful one ,as I do not count winning an FA cup and getting your team relegated from the premier as a success.

Ian Smitham
120 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:32:47
Went to the game and Echo many of the sentiments on here. Thought Galloway, young, inexperienced and playing out of position did well.

Noted no blue Bill.

Have noted also that aside from Jags and Tim, there is a very young team developing. But, sadly, I posted on here last Christmas that I think RM should go, and I remain of the opinion he should based on the type of football being served up.

Looking forward, and in discussion today I said 10 games. Have just looked at the programme and noted the games in October. Suspect that will be pivotal.

Paul Thompson
121 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:34:41
Where the fuck has the side that demolished Man Utd by playing fast counter-attacking football gone?

It's wating for a team to attack us. The first half was a repeat of so many failures to unpick packed defences. Martinez set up Wigan to play a counter attcking style and it workled for a while. He has utterly failed to learn the lessons of the ponderous pass philosophy that seved us so poorly last season. Even if that is a good 'philosophy' we lack the players to make it work. Why didn't we start with a formation like we had in the second half? We can save the counter-attacking for better and more adventurous teams.

Without an injection of 2-3 class players I can't see it changing, as Bobby seems to be an awfully slow learner!

Kyle Lombardo
122 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:52:22
We are not even on the same level as Swansea at this point. We have a huge need of some one who can keep track of where the ball is on the pitch and finish it. How many great crosses did Seamus have that either weren't touched by someone in blue or were headed outside the woodwork?

On a positive note, Kone and Barkley showed much improvement today. Loved seeing Stonesie and Barkley celebrating together after his goal. The future is bright, just hopefully not to the highest bidder.

Keith Glazzard
123 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:53:15
Watching (on line) I saw nothing to make me think we were going to do well in this game, let alone win it.
We were always likely to bleed a goal, two as it happened. And our reply? Kone fed Ross (very well) for one he got on target and then hit the target for the first time in living memory. Our future? I doubt it.
Three or four more games to see what is happening, or more likely not happening. Like all Evertonians I hope it goes very well. If not, time for change.
John Malone
124 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:57:08

Barry - too slow and sloppy in his all round play looked tired after ten minutes, is it his age, today's sunshine or lack of motivation from the manager!

Lukaku - absolutely stunk the place out, no first touch, no hold up play, no link up play, no flick ons to his own teammates, no shot's nothing absolutely zilch! Made Troy Deeney look like the £28 million man! The guy needs a serious kick up the backside!

Ross Barkley - Goal aside which was a great strike, he barely done a tap, I am beginning to wonder what his role in this side is because he is bringing nothing to the table no real work rate, no assists, no quality play, no tackles if he never scored he would be getting slaughtered!

Robert Martinez - his tactics are pathetic, the squad is short of quality everywhere, the team lacks cohesion, belief, ability, desire, organisation. There is no sign of any good things he has brought to the team apart from the fact we are now predictable and easy to play against. The guy is an absolute fraud the sooner he is out the door the better!


Tom Cleverley - he looks fit as a fiddle, never stops trying to make an angle for a pass, can actually play one and two touch football, has an eye for a forward pass and can play anywhere across the pitch! Looks to be a decent aqusition without being a world beater!

Brendan Galloway - he's as game as a badger, fearless in the tackle and not bad on the ball and not afraid to run with it, he looks a decent prospect!

Arouna Kone - changed the game showed Lukaku what a centre forwards job is, to give an option, make intelligent runs, link up play, provide assists and score a goal, say no more!

John Stones - Oozes class and looks to be getting better and better I just hope he stays!

Nowhere near good enough and if the right additions are not made in this transfer window I worry we will be in the relegation zone at Christmas!

Edward Wallis
125 Posted 08/08/2015 at 20:59:16
I just got back from Holiday...and first thing I see 1 nil down when land.
Almost to a man on here and texts to my mates.... same old same old has been the sound bite.

I just get the feeling we are going to destroy ourselves this season as the relationship between Manager and Fans is becoming too great...the adage divide & conquer is what we are doing to ourselves

We desperately need some leadership from the Board or RM. Change tactics/approach learn how to defend. The best way to learn is from mistakes. If you don't change neither will the outcome. eg We always play well at high tempo!...it gets the crowd on your side at the very least... (Leicester City!!!)

Everton is greater than any individual, Decisions to create unity is needed quickly. Very worrying

If we don't we will be bottom 6 or worse.

Keith Monaghan
126 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:10:02
Pleased to get a draw in the end. How many shots did Watford have? 2 I think. Biggest problem is midfield - only Barry seems able to pass forward - Barkley scored a great goal & had another v.good effort, but was rubbish- too many touches, too slow, poor decisions, giving the ball away repeatedly, no work ethic. McCarthy - admires his square & backwards passes, offers nothing going forward. Lukaku, yes poor first touch and gets caught offside, but service he receives is very poor. Galloway did well. Coleman - needs to be dropped - constantly turns inside and back, and very error prone, just like last season - give Browning a go. We badly need a dominating midfield player who gets us playing as a team - Shaquiri is not that. Hope its not as bad as a lot of us think?
Franny Porter
127 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:11:11
1. We will get relegated with this clown in charge, absolutely ducking clueless.
2. I still don't know what formation we were playing.
3. He has ruined Coleman.
4. Barry and Mcarthy is the worst, most negative central midfield pairing in the league.
5. Lukaku is either injured, lazy or shite.
6. Despite his goal, Kone is "Angell-esque".
7. We're fucked.
Peter Z Jones
128 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:19:07
As I've read about 95% hardcore negativity, let me try and give a more balanced account of what went wrong and what went right.

Wrong- Playing 2 defensive mids at home against Watford is excessive and everyone is right to point that out. Barry is too slow to hang these days defensively anyway and probably should play more as a sub. Second, how many times is Jags going to make a limp dick header clearance that leads to a goal?

Right- Barkley was not out wide. He was down the middle where the hell he belongs and looks to be his normal self. Ok so remember how Roberto acted decisively to change the games and made sense in his first season? That's what happened today. He saw that we needed more attacking impetus and acted accordingly. The game changed positively. KONE told 99% of ToffeeWeb to shut the fuck up with a sweeeeeeeeeeet finish. Megged the defender and coolly slotted in the corner from a narrow angle. Our performance was nothing like the Everton of last season. We actually scored 2 goals. It was more like the 2-2 against Norwich when we showed the world we could play. Go down on a rare chance. Barkley screamer. Go down on another rare chance and climb the mountain again.

I know that we need to be more consistent against the weaker sides, but let's not pretend like Everton haven't been choking home or away against crap teams for the last decade. Anyone remember the Adam LeFondre game against Reading? Or the Osman/Howard nonsense against Sunderland? At least we didn't lose the damn game. If we're really building a winning culture with a young group, it's going to take awhile to lose that habit. Be nice to see more on this site actually support it rather than moan about how we need to sack a manager.

Clive Lewis
129 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:29:33
I blame the systems and the management. Roberto has to go , embarrassing 3 versus 3 at the back, reminded me of primary school, was waiting for someone to shout, Stop bunching. Barry was dreadful.

Also Vodafones click and collect service is truly shocking. Apparently the system was down so unable collect me phone, this morning.

Martinez out.

Nick Page
130 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:29:44
Good post, Peter! I've been very negative in the past mainly due to exasperation with the board but yes we should all try to be more positive. They make it tough though as we all want the best for our club.
Mike Berry
131 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:30:39
Different day at Goodison, same problem. So why is the defence coach still in a job? It ain't rocket science. If in doubt launch into row z
Rick Tarleton
132 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:33:09
This page is a re-run of the first match last season when Leicester City amazingly drew with the might of Martinez's Everton. A year on it's Watford and almost the same comments. What progress.
Dave Ganley
133 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:34:12
Andy #101 spot on. The board may be responsible for a lot of things but not what goes on on the pitch. Martinez is making good players look very poor with his staid negative pointless possession based football.

When is enough? Last season was enough for me after the awful christmas period we had. The cracks were papered over by the succession of fortunate wins, the only decent performance was against the mancs at GP.

Martinez has no plan B. Hoofing the ball hopefully upfield when pass pass pass doesn't work is just dreadful, going back to the standard not seen since Walters years except at least, though very limited in player talent at least showed commitment.

Watford at home on the opening day of the season and some people are happy with the fightback....ffs it shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. It beggars belief that people still defend Martinez and his shocking tactics, blaming injuries and lack of transfer activity. Any team we put out with the players available should be enough to comfortably beat Watford at home. Alas not. Blame the players all you like but with the terrible tactics we use we could have anybody playing and we would still look sterile. While we still defend Martinez then I guess we get what we deserve. Its about time Evertonians grew a back bone and stood by our motto Nil Satis Nisi Optimum before it really is too late. Martinez really really does have to go

Andy Crooks
134 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:34:13
Peter Z, some fair points. Do you believe Martinez is the best we can do, though? We have got some fine young players, are you happy that Martinez is the man to nurture them? If you are, absolutely fair enough, this site is about opinion. I disagree with you, which I assume you accept is fair enough. I think the manager should have been sacked long ago and believe every game he remains in charge is detrimental to our club.
Brian Wilkinson
136 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:41:15
Every Cloud has a Silver linning, had we scraped a win, then got lucky before window closes, chances are we would stick.

I will settle for a couple of draws early days, then get lucky with the current squad and not bring players in.

Hopefully now, this will force us to strengthen the squad before the window closes.

Franny Porter
137 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:42:15
I can't stand all this "get behind the team for fuck sake" shite.

I'm sorry Peter, but I'm guessing you weren't at the game, or at any last season. I was, and I've spend a fucking fortune to watch this idiot send out his teams to tippy tap the ball sideways and act generally like then have no fucking idea what they are supposed to be doing.

It's shite, he's clueless and its boring me fucking senseless, so no, don't "let's get behind the team".

Trevor Peers
138 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:50:36
Peter Z, getting a 2-2 draw away from home against a newly promoted team might be a good result, but with home advantage and the manager under pressure to get an early 3 points in the bag, this was below par and with four tough games coming up I see no positives at all in today's performance except the two goals, Kone did well for once.
Barkley's strike was exceptional and proves he has real talent.
The problem remains with Roberto, his sides repeatedly look amateurish and unprofessional with gaps all over the place, and we will be punished severely when we play better teams than Watford.
Chris Wilson
139 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:52:15
OK, I will hold my hand up and apologize for my moaning comment. I am sincerely sorry. I understand emotions and frustrations are very high and, yes, folks have every right to be frustrated; from the finances, to the lack of off field business, to the injuries, to the style of play. I get it.

I was just accused of making excuses for Roberto. I whole-heatedly disagree. I support Everton - I don't give a damn who the manager is! I want us to win games, shake up the status quo, and reawaken what I think is a sleeping giant. I just try (and it is hard sometimes) to look at things from all angles. Injuries, opening match excitement, lack of timing and fitness; these are all realities of the game that can determine results; especially on opening day. I mean, I look at the players that we were missing for today and I believe that if we have a Pienaar available, Delly, Gibson, Baines...I truly believe that we tear Watford apart. But those players are out and that is a reality that I take into account.

Believe it or not, I did see some decent play in the first half, and things that can be corrected. There was a lack of balance coming from the left side where Galloway wouldn't penetrate deep enough; Ross playing too far off of Lukaku in the midifeld which isolated Rom, and indirectly created a logjam in the midfield which assisted in Watford defending in their two banks of four. Build up play was slow, absolutely. And a lot of that was from Stones, which surprised me. But he likes to dwaddle on the ball and he gets himself into trouble. And the boys were actually finding gaps in the Watford defense, but the timing and connection of the passes was off; players weren't finishing their runs, or were making them too late and the we'd lose all momentum.

Things did improve in the second half. Ross started to assert himself a bit more, and simplifying things. Seamus was making runs into the penalty area; which he wasn't doing last season - I don't think he ever really recovered from an ankle knock last year. Kone, stepped up when he was needed.

Defensively I am concerned. We do still seem to get panicky when a team counters us, and we break down when we're one-on-one. I'd like to see us stay tighter defensively, and not drop too deep into our penalty area when teams send crosses into the box, because we always leave a late-arriving midfielder with time and space to put an effort on goal. Now, these are all things that can be improved upon by tweaking technique. strategy and/or getting our legs under us. Yes, a lot of this is an echo from last season. Will they finally be able to iron these out and improve? I don't know, but I want to give the players and staff the opportunity to work it out.

Remember a couple of seasons ago when we started with several draws, and then we just kicked on? Sometimes that happens - things just click and teams start rolling. Hey, maybe everything falls apart and Roberto is gone before Christmas, or maybe not. I'm gonna follow Duncan's charge and be behind the team, because the boys feed off the fan's strength. I want to give the team a chance to find its rhythm and find its confidence and maybe recapture our excitement.

Seb Niemand
140 Posted 08/08/2015 at 21:58:53
Martinez has learned nothing. We can get behind the team all we like but as long as we have an incompetent, arrogant, deluded saboteur running the shop, all we will get is misery and insult to our great club. End this disgusting farce now - Martinez out!!!
Denis Richardson
141 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:16:19
Chris 139, with the exception of Baines, the 11 that started the match was the 11 that RM would have started with anyway. So the injury card cannot be used as an excuse. Our bench was weaker not the main team.

Nevermind the fact it was watford at home, who had 7 new players FFS.

Max Fine
142 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:25:13
Well said Chris.

Some pantomime level over-reaction in here

Dick Fearon
143 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:37:32
It is often said on here that we should play to Romelu's strengths.
I am curious to know what those strengths are.
He can't trap a bag of cement, his hold up play is not good nor is his heading ability.
He lacks in speed off the mark and has poor dribbling skills.
For a striker, his power of shot is barely average and his positional play is poor as is his stamina.
Can someone please tell me how or in what way he is better than your average central striker..
Chris Wilson
144 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:40:21
Actually Denis, I disagree. I think injuries do play a part. The skills that those players provide can be difference makers and their inclusion would help strengthen our bench. Now, we definitely need those three new faces to increase the competition for places and strengthen our depth, I totally agree with you there. Agree to disagree, it's cool.
Chris Gould
145 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:48:18
Dick, he scores more goals.

But he doesn't suit this system. This system has highlighted all of his technical flaws. It also does not reflect well on his attitude. He isn't prepared to work hard and he sulks.

Basically, he doesn't like being a lone striker and can't be arsed. If he stays, I don't think he'll get double figures for league goals. Put him in a different team with a different system, where others do the hard work, and he'll bang them in.

Trevor Peers
146 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:53:32
Chris your right of course, it's a bit obvious, he banged in goals at West Brom under a more direct system. Which begs the question why did Roberto buy him in the first place ?
Andy Codling
147 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:54:06
Players feed of the fans strength?
Sorry but if thousands of pounds a week doesn't motivate you then your just a parasite who would be flipping burgers if you were not kicking a ball for a living
Chris Gould
148 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:56:03
Chris, all teams have injuries. A squad needs to be able to deal with them. We were home against Watford. That should be a game where we can deal with a few injuries.

Besides this, we weren’t any better last year with any of the currently injured players in the team, apart from Gibson.

I’m sure Watford had some injuries. It’s no excuse for poor displays.

The problem is the system and tactics, nothing else.
John Malone
149 Posted 08/08/2015 at 22:59:21
Peter Z Jones, you can kid yourself all you want and try as much positive thinking as you want but the fact is the team is a mish mash of poor quality players, playing in the wrong positions, playing in the wrong system to suit their qualities!

The whole problem is Martinez! He is single handledly destroying a team who were regular top seven finishers!

His stubborness to play two holding midfielders, one who his an ageing Barry who has never been noted for his playmaking ability and the other McCarthy an out and out basic defensive mid ball winner. How on earth does he expect us to play with impetus, create chances and hurt teams playing with them two standing in each others toes??

Why after seeing nearly every bottom half side come to Goodison last year play deep, stifle us, counter attck and take points does he play the exaclty the same way??

Why after last year seeing Lukaku be so inaffective when teams play deep does he play him on his own again??

Why after saying so many times after getting beat or dropping points last year we started slow we need to play with more "belief and intensity" that we do it again??

The answer! Martinez and his stubborness to play his shite system with players that obviously are not suited to it or good enough to make it work. It is his system and work ethos that has turned Goodison into a library with nothing for the fans to get off their seat for and creating a painfully frustrating team to watch in turn creating a frustrated pissed off crowd ut’s a vicious cycle and is not going to change until he does domething about it! Which I believe he won’t do and we will worryingly be in another relegation battle!

Colin Williams
150 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:11:17
Just a few observations: Stonsey was different class, again! Jags played very poor! Lukaku is absolute shite! The tempo of our forward play sends me to sleep! For feck's sake, why can’t we raise the game tempo? Also too many of our midfield players play the same way.

Coleman needs to find some "form" going forward and defending (he's hot and cold). Kev is a joke! (3 year contract my arse!). Howard had a quiet game.

Really pleased for Kone, the lad has lots of ability! Barks was different class ... the boy’s a top player. Keep the faith with him. Last, but not least... Martinez... God help us!
Brent Stephens
151 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:14:54
Still working myself up to throw myself off the roof. In the meantime, as I think about it...
... having been to the game and watched tonight on sky, the second half had more passion and pace...
... Barkley's strike was phenomenal...
... Galloway starting a game and acquitting himself well ...
...apart from being skinned for the second goal, Stones oozed class again...
... getting cold on this roof - where now?
Ant Dwyer
152 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:17:10
We are fucking awful, we have not learned a thing from last season and there was not one positive to take from the game.

I hear people ask why we only try in the last 10 minutes, this is not true. All that it is is we have an extra striker on and less defensive midfielders on when we’re chasing a game.
Martinez has to go, he’s clueless.
Nick Page
153 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:22:12
Shithouse Shearer and his gobshite sidekick suggest Stones should go to Chelsea. Absolute pair of shits they really are.
John Pendleton
154 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:40:31
Nick #53 Just come on to say the same thing. Watford analysis - players, style, performance etc etc. And Everton, entire focus on Stones' performance folllowed by a 'should he go to Chelsea?' Since when have MOTD post match analysis been about transfer speculation. Shearer and Murphy's opinions are irrelevant - 'of course he should' 'learn from the best' etc - they shouldn't have been asked the question. Never discussed whether De Gea should be sold despite genuine speculation. Shithouse media - hope more than ever Stones stays.
Max Levy
155 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:42:56
Franny 127. You made me laugh for the first time today.
1/ Agree Martinez is inept. If we didn't have some decent players it'd be easier to accept but Martinez is destroying them.
2/ We'll have 2 points after 5 games.
3/ That'll probably snap even BK's patience.
4/ The only thing I'll remember from the Villareal game was Ferguson's speech at the end, thanking everyone from the cleaners upwards. The passion in his voice. I'd forgotten what that sounded like. The irony being that by October, will he have to be sacked with Martinez, guilty by association? No chance. That was his acceptance speech. Step up our next manager.
Craig Mills
156 Posted 08/08/2015 at 23:50:37
Agree Nick@153, both talking as though it's inevitable that he should go and learn from the best coach and best defender in the league.

31m and he's probably gone, God knows who we'll be playing at centre back then, I get the feeling it will be 2 very quick panic buys!!

Mark Wilson
157 Posted 08/08/2015 at 00:08:36
Terence #66 you thought John Stones had a good game ? Bloody hell I honestly must have had my eyes closed the entire match. He cost us both goals. Missed his header in the middle for their first and the second was so poor, dived in, made to look daft. In between he had some good moments as illustrated on MOTD but making mistakes like that at crucial times costs you games.

Boo boy Barry was outstanding, played very well. McCarthy better than some have said but surely it should be Cleverley alongside him however well Barry did today. Ross inching his way back, glorious goal, several fine efforts but still holding onto the ball too much, over elaborate. Loved seeing Kone get one. Mirallas looked lost most of the game and he's hot yo have a clearer role in the way we caresses up.

Overall I'm amazed that there's criticism of those suggesting this wasn't a great day at the office. How can we accept two dropped points against Watford as good ? It's not negative, it's just common sense, for pity's sake where are our standards ? Hidden beneath the managers manta of holding the ball and passing the life out of the opposition.....except as we all know we are sussed....totally.....and today Watford gave a decent display of the art of frustrating us by sticking a man just in front of the D.

It's not negative to say that result was poor. It's realistic and honest. Somehow this outcome sums up the mgr and the squad.....happy with a draw and 400 more passes than the opposition.

Ernie Baywood
158 Posted 08/08/2015 at 00:22:17
I spent most of the game livid so night need to watch it again to see the finer points.

Struck me that Watford were quite happy to sit deep and allow us the ball but, far from playing our slow passing game, we just kept on giving it back to them. Players panicking on the ball. I guess that's what happens when a team with 70% outfield defenders and grafters has the ball in a tight area (Watford's half).

There were some positives to take. When Ross is good he's very good and I finally got some hope that he can improve. He benefited from being played in the right position but we put no work into generating that gap between their defence and midfield for him to operate in.

I thought Galloway was very good defensively, if lacking a bit of confidence attacking with the ball.

Seamus looked like his old self. Stones was imperious apart from the second goal. Jags decent too.

Kone (even goal and assist aside) showed a bit as a forward. His movement made an immediate difference - you're really clutching at straws when you're praising a basic element such as making the odd run off the ball.

Probably the hardest thing to take is that you couldn't pick too many horrendous individual performers which suggests to me that either this is our level or we were just tactically outdone.

I suspect it's 70% the latter but coming around to the idea that there is a bit in the former.

Andy Crooks
159 Posted 09/08/2015 at 00:34:22
I listened to Shearer talking about Stones. He takes the view that a young man has much to learn from Terry. How completely insulated from the real world are these people.

John Terry is a good centre half. Well, that’s it really. Other than that a sad specimen.John, stay and learn beside footballers who at least remotely resemble your mates.

Harvey Miller
160 Posted 08/08/2015 at 00:42:13
I chose not to watch the game because I knew it would be painful and I would stop watching anyway soon. Never before Martinez I would never have even considered switching off. Now it is a habit. I still wait for the games like I used to do but I know the good ones are so rare it's pointless.

Last season we never played well enough to earn victory, the opponent made more mistakes than we did. Our victories were mostly flukes. I think we should gone down because we never seemed to play with the WeCanAndWe Will instead of NoCanDo.

Andy Crooks
161 Posted 09/08/2015 at 00:43:00
Ernie, I agree about Kone. That goal will do him a lot of good. It's a small straw to clutch at, but there's not much else to be happy about.

I would just like to add, I do not believe that one single contributor to this site wants to be negative all the time. I would just like the coach to give a hint of a silver lining, just something to get on board with.

Don Alexander
162 Posted 09/08/2015 at 00:58:46
Martinez has had years of experience in the bottom half of the Premier League until he blew it with Wigan. Here he changed a successful system he inherited to play in a losing style that’s shite to watch, and that’s unforgiveable.

His game-plan always seems to have been written by the opposing manager. The players since day one of last season have been poor on the pitch trying to do what he tells them because they know it’s shite too. Only in March did the players at last jack it in 4-1 down in the second half in Kiev. By then the league position was bust to the wide, but led by only Rom, Bainesy, and more recently Seamus, who seem to be the only ones free to speak their mind without the threat of being dropped (like Buzz). They said they’d then started playing the 'more direct' 'old Everton' way and scrambled away from relegation. Relegation!

What does today’s match tell you about how much Martinez has learnt about a change of tactics/formation? Behind the scenes is a mystery too. The coaches seem unable to get even the basics sorted. Ditto for the medical team. Whose fault is that? Add that to a second insipid pre-season and ask that question again.

And to those who say we should not complain and just cheer on despite this I say this; If you’d been on the Titanic would you have kept on cheering as the iceberg got nearer or would you have been screaming at the captain to change course? Give your head a shake Bill and please get rid of this intensely unexciting phenomenally deluded man before he well and truly sinks us.
Jim Jennings
163 Posted 09/08/2015 at 01:00:44

In Shearer's defence (there's three words I never thought I'd say) what he said was that IF Everton decide to sell Stones, then he disagrees with Ferdinand's view that Chelsea would be a bad move on the basis that:

1. He'd be playing for the best manager in the league
2. He'd be learning from the best centre half the premier league has seen.

The second point is perhaps an exaggeration (I am sure you recognise one of them when you see one) but while Terry is no Jonny Evans, he's a pretty fine defender. Both are very valid points. If Martinez is as clueless as you say, then why would Stones not be tempted by Chelsea

Tony Byrne
164 Posted 09/08/2015 at 01:41:17
Dave G @ 133 & Franny porter

Spot on.

If this clown was in charge of Barca they would finish about 5th in la liga.

Peter, I respect your comments as a fellow blue, however, would Jelavic or Anichebe have a better goals ratio than Kone if they were not sold, I think they would.

Last season we had not one or two out of form, we had 5-6, for me that’s down to the guy that coaches the squad.RM has hypnotised the players into playing his fantasy system that clearly does not work, we have gone from having arguably the best two attacking full backs in Europe, to little or nothing on either wing (his "philosophy").

We have a nucleus of British players in the 1st 11,surely to god the likes of Mark Hughes or even Nigel Pearson could set us up to be a tighter unit defensively, start from the back fuck me.I’m sure either of these managers would then spend a few quid on a goalkeeper after seeing how bad Howard is (see last seasons stats).

Again, I would hope any manager worth his salt would not deploy 2 holding midfielders at home! especially against so called inferior opposition.

The above just being basic football principles, or is it just me.

Today I have watched Swansea against Chelsea,what a breath of fresh air, fuck the rent boys it was great to see a reasonably cheap assembled team go toe to toe with the "Champions", organisation, penetration going forward,finding space on the flanks (especially on the left with Montero against Ivanovic) defensively solid, Swansea could have won. A young Coach in Gary Monk doing a great job, making RM look a twat.

Palace, Leicester, Swansea, Southampton, Stoke, Newcastle etc, all leapfrogging us in terms of investment in their respective squads. Here’s a thought: if Cleverley wasn’t on a free, would we have paid £5-6 million for him? I think we all know the answer; he is a good addition but already he’s been put on the LS of midfield! Why not get a LS midfielder ffs?

Season tickets were not renewed for this season due to the dreadful turgid shite served up by RM last season. It genuinely sickened me not going to the game against Watford. I cannot sit & watch possibly the worst football I have ever witnessed at GP with the quality of squad we have, we can all point the finger at the players, but if they don’t believe in the manager.....most of us don’t!

How can it be allowed for RM to carry out his utter dross football "philosophy" at our great club. Mark my words,we will be in the bottom 4 by mid/end of September with this clown in charge.

Apologies for being so negative, seeing our great club heading towards the Abyss just sickens me. The club is rotten to the core.

Craig Fletcher
165 Posted 09/08/2015 at 01:51:49

1) Kone. Great assist and well-taken goal
2) Galloway looked lively; his delivery not up to Baines' high standard but he bombed forward a few times and was solid in defence.
3) Barkley's goal, lets hope it gives him confidence for the rest of the season. To be fair aside from the goal Barkley's performance wasn't really a standout.
4) We attacked well in the second half; and it was good to see us mix it up a bit with long balls and early balls into the box.
5) Coleman I thought looked much better than his poor imitation last season. Got forward well and some brilliant crosses.
6) Cleverley was good, think he will be a decent player for his this season


1) Horrible first half. First league game of the season at home, you'd expect a lot more energy early doors.
2) defenders standing off! Watford's defence hounded and harassed us at every turn, we continually stood off them, allowing them to counter-attack at pace, especially through Anya.
3) slow, slow pace of our attack. Gave Watford time to organise and defend deep
4) We still seem to have no idea how to break down teams at Goodison. We sorely need that creative spark.

Lastly, we looked so much better when we played with two strikers and one defensive midfielder. I can understand two defensive mids away from home to Man City for example, but surely we can show a bit more adventure when we are at home to a newly promoted side and play two strikers?

Paul Ferry
166 Posted 09/08/2015 at 01:54:04
Chris Gould (117): ’RM has shown that he will not stray from his system’.

Erm... he changed it second half, quite early on actually, pushing two up front and going one in defensive midfield, and it rescued a point for us against a team admittedly I fully expected us to beat.

Craig Fletcher
167 Posted 09/08/2015 at 02:03:12
Almost forgot. Another on the negative side of the ledger - Lukaku's first touch is still abysmal. But he looked much better when he had Kone for company in the second half.
Max Fine
168 Posted 09/08/2015 at 02:31:11
Shearer you dopey Daily Mail reading dribbling moron - Mourinho is the best manager in the league and will win established world class players the medals they cherish, I agree with that... but in what universe has he ever been known to develop emerging talent??!

JM’s success is largely built around buying a ’finished product’ and ruthlessly shipping them on if they don’t deliver instant results (Kevin De Bruyne anyone?). Alex Ferguson mark II he is not.

And if Terry is such a good mentor why hasn’t he managed to make a world class CH out of Cahill yet? Or any of the other 31 youth teamers Chelsea shipped out last season? Too busy letting the likes of Ashley Cole take his air rifle to them probably.

Stones is far from a polished Mourinho pawn and at Everton he can be given the grace to fail before he succeeds. He’ll be off for Champs League football one day, but what’s the rush? One less than perfect season under Mourinho and he’ll be sent the way of Bosingwa, Boulahrouz and Zhirkov before him.

Fucking Shearer a pundit, good job no-one actually values the Alan Partridge of football’s opinion. And Lineker looks like a gay Santa. No wonder Hansen resigned.

Ernie Baywood
169 Posted 09/08/2015 at 02:35:13
Yes Craig. Simple basic logic tells you a guy will have more success against one defender than he will against two.

Doesn't necessarily excuse his efforts against two, but I'd you are going to pay all that money for him you might as well have a go at playing to his strengths.

Paul Ward
170 Posted 09/08/2015 at 03:01:55
(Dave Ganley 133) I can’t disagree with anything you say. Only to emphasize how poor that result was. Watford are a complete new team with a new manager, 9 new modest signings and 6 making their debut.

Each week there has been a new player to fit into preparing for the new season. We have this settled group (baring injuries) of established premier league players organised by a so called PL manager and we are lucky to draw at home with them. It will not matter who we sign because Martinez is incapable of tactical change.
Peter Barry
172 Posted 09/08/2015 at 03:40:14
Same old same old.
Ernie Baywood
173 Posted 09/08/2015 at 03:40:47
Paul, history tells us that promoted teams tend to buy new players in bulk. It would also tell us that they tend to be at their most competitive early in the season.

Mind you, teams also tend to lift their game for their first home appearance of the season so now I'm wondering just how bad we can be!

Eric Myles
174 Posted 09/08/2015 at 04:27:58
Our performance was much better than I'd expected but surely we have one player that can turn a defender with his back to goal rather than play a pass back into our own half??
Jay Harris
175 Posted 08/08/2015 at 05:16:10
Summing up.

We have some top class players but an extremely poor team that doesn't close the opposition down and doesnt trouble the opposition keeper because they are all running behind the ball so they can safely pass the ball back which means nobody is ever in the box.

We invite pressure and we don't exert pressure.

Time for the taxi Roberto.

Paul Kelly
176 Posted 09/08/2015 at 05:24:41
We have double their possession and one less shot I believe. Ain't going to go on about our performance but one thing I will say is that this team needs a nasty streak, after that two footed challenge (which was well worthy of a red ) not one of our players seemed arsed, no fight , no "I've got your back , you have mine" attitude, no moaning, no making sure the ref made the right decision, not a effing whisper.

Pathetic .

John Voigt
177 Posted 09/08/2015 at 08:05:32
1st off I'm happy to report this yank that lives in North Carolina that little old me is poster #177 (as of right now).

My knowledge of the proper game of football is below yours cause "soccer" wasn't very popular here when I was growing up.

I do catch almost every Everton game. Here's some observations:

1) "Beardless" Tim Howard looked better than last season. Might be cause he's motivated to win his #1 spot back for team USA. Currently the #1 spot is held by Brad Guzan of Aston Villa.

2) I was disappointed the Blues didn't take the game to Watford in the 1st half. Everton spent most of the first half not creating chances for themselves and allowing Watford to gain confidence. Simply put that's not a formula for success.

3) Everton will play roughly ten games at home against bottom half teams. These are the games Everton needs to get 3 points the majority of the time and to get the 3 points Everton need to start the game in a formation that leads itself to score goals. Simply put they were not set up the 1st half to score many goals

4) My gauges for making Champions League places starts with scoring 70 goals. Simply put this squad doesn't have a chance in this respect (and Bobby promised us Champions League). Europa league spots usually need scoring over 55 goals and I don't see the current squad reach 55 goals this season (based on the day 1, slow sideways crap)

5) Bobby did something unusual yesterday. He sent on a sub around the 60 minute mark with the intent to increase scoring chances.

6) Everton need another striker.

7) Everton need more wingers that have the potential to score more than 5 goals. Right now I'd rate Mirrales as the only winger in the squad that fits the bill.

8) I like the yougsters the Blues have and hope they get up to speed this season

9) Hope the Blue keep John Stones this season. His value should go up this year and if the Blues can't make Champions League and a Chelsea comes calling at least we can bank a huge sum for future transfers

10) Based on yesterday's performance I'm now if the "Bobby Must Go Camp". It's mainly based on playing "negative" football on the opening weekend agains a bottom half team. What really pissed me off watching the 1st half was Everton players trot to preassigned positions spreading the field when the Blues won the ball back. Instead of looking for a quick break or counter the Blues just slowed the game to a crawl and this Bullpoop will keep Everton (maybe) around midtable. Forget about European football next year cause Bobby says he can get us there, but his tactics won't!

Chris Gould
178 Posted 09/08/2015 at 08:59:02
Paul Ferry 166, he changed it once we were losing! And he'll revert right back to it for the next match and every other match that he is in charge for. We were better once he changed it, so you would think that he may stick with what improved us...he won't, and we all know he won't.
Chris James
179 Posted 09/08/2015 at 09:17:01
I'm usually the 'glass well more than half full' type of guy, but todays match (and much of pre-season) gives me very little to get hold of.

The fundamental tactical approach is wrong for our players and arguably any team in the premier league.
i) Playing two defensive midfielders is clearly making us actually less good defensively (and vision or not, Barry is a total passenger for the majority of the game). It also doesn't work as an attacking ruse no matter what Martinez thinks - We need 2 attacking midfielders slotting passes not defensive folk breaking up play.
ii) the tippy-tappy passes going sideways and backwards do nothing other than boost possession stats whilst also wasting time and allowing the opposition to regroup. We're also playing it WAY too deep - all our possession is around the halfway line, where it counts for nothing.
iii) one man up front isn't working with Lukaku, not all his fault, we basically hold it in midfield then pump a ball forward. Again, see the need for attacking midfielders
iv) We're not pressing high up the pitch or defending as a team leaving our central defence hopelessly exposed
v) Because we only play one winger (why??) and don't seem to want to work the flanks we're not using our amazing full-backs to their full potential

Also fitness is clearly off in the post-Moyes world. We're not able to close down, over-power teams at the end of matches and are prone to stupid injuries. This is tied into the excessive focus on ball work (which really ISN'T bearing fruit on the pitch) over fitness work and the letting go of a great physio team.

Ultimately I was prepared to give Martinez up to Xmas this year on the back of the fact he seemed to be learning/adapting at the end of last season to a faster more counter-attacking football.

Yesterday was a demonstration that he hasn't changed at all and will persist with the same failing tactics again. Drawing 2-2 with Arsenal at Goodison is one thing when they fight back (we'd have won that match if our fitness levels hadn't run down), saving a draw against a Watford side who brought in like 12 players over the summer is frankly just embarrassing.

They really weren't that good at all. We were just woeful.
Slow and leisurely. Lacking in purpose or clarity of our approach. Panicky at the back and with precious little composure up front.

The players have to take a chunk of responsibility obviously, but for me the manager looks way out of his depth and lacking in ideas.
Martinez out.

Anthony Jones
180 Posted 09/08/2015 at 09:21:11
Drop Barry, drop Barry, drop Barry, drop Barry, drop Barry.....
John Voigt
181 Posted 09/08/2015 at 09:41:09
Some of you know I'm a big supporter of Lukaku.

It's easy to point out his flaws, but he still has incredible potential.

Playing him as a lone striker in the current system is a waste of his talent. How many times yesterday were half-ass long balls directed his way? Even if his 1st touch were better he had very few options in this regard. Why is he outside the box so much?

To his credit his assist was pretty impressive. He does more than score goals and he does draw a lot of attention.

The Blues do need another powerful central striker and guess what??? Bobby will most likely let this transfer window go by and not add a player like this to the squad.

Bobby is doing a very good job at NOT spending when teams at Everton's resource level are investing in better talent. Guess that makes him popular with the owners, but fans are being shortchanged!

Nicholas Ryan
182 Posted 09/08/2015 at 10:06:27
It wasn't good ... but it could have been an awful lot worse!!
Dave Williams
184 Posted 09/08/2015 at 11:12:50
Anthony #180 - Barry had a decent game yesterday and maybe the answer to one problem is to keep him at LB and move the excellent Tom C into the middle(now where are all those posters who slagged off his acquisition??).

As so many others say we need to play 2 strikers and even RM said yesterday that we were far too slow and pedestrian in the first half. Second half I thought we were quite decent and Seamus was back to his old self but I didn't go to the game being nearly 300 miles away and I sympathise with those who paid out £35 or so to see that first half.

Roberto has to sort out the tempo quickly or the clamour for him to go will become too great for the board to be able to resist.

I like him and see potential in him but his flaw is in too much admiration for Baca and forgetting that they can make the style work because they have Messi and Iniesta

Derek Thomas
185 Posted 09/08/2015 at 11:28:56
Moving Barry to LB is just skirting round the bleedin obvious. We have too many 'same same' players.

While Barry might be all very good, skilful, experienced, good Pro, up the bosses arse, etc etc whatever. Never mind him being slower than me, we were better balanced when he went there.

Not due to him per se. Just better balanced. So why play a 'slow old man' when we have Galloway.

Bobby! do the unthinkable drop him...Get the balance back, even if it means going 3 at the back.


Paul Tran
186 Posted 09/08/2015 at 11:39:35
Dave, Martinez may well admire Barca; the first thing he can do is make sure we match their energy, work rate and persistence when we haven't got the ball. Then we can match their movement when our team mates have the ball. How many times did Barry and Coleman have the ball, look up and see no movement?

The second half was an improvement; it's hard to get excited when a team begins to do the basics and play with a bit of energy after 45 mins. Especially with the suspicion that we will start the next game as we did yesterday.

I'd like to see us start with two up front, Cleverley & McCarthy at centre mid.

Dave Ganley
187 Posted 09/08/2015 at 12:35:26
Nicholas #182, have to disagree i'm afraid. That kind of talk is exactly why we are drifting into crisis. Do you think Chelski, the manc, RS or Arse fans would say something like that given the season we endured last year? No, me either. That's why we won't be competing for anything in the near future except for the relegation places. Could have been worse? No not really. We are a pathetic caricature of the club we once knew and loved. Fortress Goodison? More like a happy playground for any team who comes to visit
Colin Malone
188 Posted 09/08/2015 at 12:44:21
Gareth Barry was my man of the match. Only midfielder who can pass the ball forward with good effect. I saw the Watford right back get the ball and he knew where it was going before the ball got to him. I saw Coleman get the ball, and he’s shouting, for someone to move, we are very static. What the fuck are they doing every day in training?

Imagine Sheedy in this side with no movement off the ball. Imagine Reidy in this side, scared to receive the ball from player around him and just passing it square when he gets the ball, as I see McCarthy do time and time again. When do we win a ball in the air from a corner?? Same old Same old with two defensive midfielders every game.

Harold Matthews
189 Posted 09/08/2015 at 14:14:26
Paul K. Very good point about our lack of angry reaction to the two-footed tackle. Tells it's own story I'm afraid.
Brent Stephens
190 Posted 09/08/2015 at 14:16:20
I thought the replay showed Jags running fast and furiously at the referee complaining about the challenge.
Charles McCann
191 Posted 09/08/2015 at 14:21:41
Didn't enjoy yesterday's match at all. The style of football was terrible to watch. It reminded me of the more direct football played under Moyes. Not sure whether the players are getting instruction from Roberto to kick it long to lukaku or they are doing of their own accord. Whichever it is it's not a pretty sight. Have to agree with those calling for Barry to be dropped. His lack of pace is obvious and means that McCarthy has to do the work of two men. Oviedo should be in left back with baines being out injured We have good players but they are not playing anywhere near their potential.
Matt Traynor
192 Posted 09/08/2015 at 14:23:00
Harold #189 there's an article on the Echo which asks fans of all the other 19 premier league clubs how they think Everton will fare this season, plus favourite Everton player, most disliked Everton player. I assume it's part of a round-robin where fans are asked about all the teams.

Anyway, tellingly, half of them couldn't pick out a player from us they disliked - we're too nice on and off the pitch! (Of those that did pick a player, Naismith, Mirallas and bizarrely Osman featured).

John Voigt
193 Posted 09/08/2015 at 15:01:17
I've watched multiple games this weekend. Right now West Ham are ahead of Arsenal 2-0. They look better than our Blues. They will soon have a money gap on us too.

Swansea looks bright.

Southhampton are better than we are.

Newcastle is up and down. We might finish above them.

Aston Villa is still a work in progess might finish above them.

And then there's Bobby or is it Booby! The season is starting and the chance we'll threaten the top 4 teams is virtually nil (but Bobby promised we'd make Champions League).

The other European places to me are out of reach too.

The Blues will we fortunate to squeak into the bottom of the top half.

I see this Everton team finishing 9-14th.

The transfer window isn't closed so there's hope but "Booby" must likely will sit on his hands and make the owners happy and not spend money he could if he were aggressively trying to push the club forward. It's a shame cause there's potential to have a team that can challenge for higher places (my opinion).

Ian McDowell
194 Posted 09/08/2015 at 15:11:03
Thats what happens John when clubs get there business done early and leave us looking around for scraps at the end of the transfer window.

Swansea looked very impressive yesterday and I was very impressed with Montero the winger and Gomis. Gomis showed Lukaku how to play up front on your own and shield the ball, hold it up and bring teammates into play up against Terry and Cahill probably the most experienced back line.

Harold Matthews
195 Posted 09/08/2015 at 15:17:08
Cheers Matt. I guess they appreciated Osman's ball control and football intelligence. Only the Everton fans know he can only go 50 minutes.

Talking about intelligence, or lack of it. We spend a king's ransom on a very left-sided striker and carefully set things up so 80% of his service comes from the right.

In his first season he enjoyed the luxury of Baines, Pienaar and Oviedo providing constant service from the left but that side of our game seems to have dried up. The way things stand, we urgently need a right sided striker.

John Voigt
196 Posted 09/08/2015 at 15:27:21
Ian (#194) We are preaching to the choir. We get a good player in Cleverly, but he's not good enough to be an automatic selection in United's 1st 18 and at least make the bench every game.

I'd like Booby to explain his we'll make Champions League comments made in the past. You don't get here taking reject from Champions League Clubs.

We get DelBoy back and he's got talent, but has never been a reliable scorer and is known for NOT playing defense. How is that a major plus.

Last year we signed Eto which had potential, but didn't work out.

Now we've got Kone and Naismith as striker options #2 and #3 and point blank they aren't big time players.

Booby should have connections to Spanish speaking players and the only native speaking Spanish we get is a player that Spanish teams are more than willing to let go. His lack of defense to means he' never make the Barcelona 18 on a regular basis.

There are players available so Booby has a little rope, but the transfer window is starting to wind down.

Here's a Wiki link to LA Galaxy player Zardes. He's the kind of value based player that might turn out to be a very good Premier League player. His scoring is down this year cause his team has less quality offensive options (like Landon Donavan).

Here's a wiki link:


Bill Gall
198 Posted 09/08/2015 at 17:59:52
John # 177 are you any were near lucana .
Eric Owen
199 Posted 09/08/2015 at 19:16:34
So far I have seen on North American TV, five games live and 4 games recorded on the first two days of this new season. I have seen many new signings on other teams. Why is it that Everton is waiting to sign (if possible) some new players for this season? I hear the transfer season is on for the next three weeks and if I hear RM correctly he hopes to sign new additions.
Surely, if new signings are made in the next three weeks they will take time to acclimatize themselves to Everton's playing tactics which really means it should be perhaps six weeks into this season before they contribute? The fixtures for Everton during that period are not the easiest so why is he waiting?

That's a lot of points we will be playing for during that time (and perhaps losing).What a way to run club?????

Keith Knowles
200 Posted 10/08/2015 at 08:00:08
Build up play too slow. Build up play too slow. Build up play too slow Build up play too slow Build up play too slow Build up play too slow Build up play too slow


Matthew Williams
201 Posted 10/08/2015 at 12:31:27
Our first win of the season will come in the Derby...we'll have a new boss by then!.
Paul Cherrington
202 Posted 10/08/2015 at 14:34:06
I think what is most frustating is that all the lessons from last year haven’t been learnt and the problems that needed solving haven’t been sorted out:

Lack of creativity in midfield -- despite even the manager admitting this (his ongoing search for a new No 10) we still play with 2 defensive mids and have brought no-one in to rectify this. How hard is it to find someone to go in the middle with Barkley so we have two creative types there and have Macca sitting behind them protecting the defense?

Lack of cutting edge up front -- we only have one decent striker and he is not suited to the lone front man role he’s been asked to play. either play two up to get the best out of him or bring another striker in who can play that role well. then bring Rom off the bench as an impact sub when the othe team are tiring.

Defensive shambles -- this is harder to solve as Martinez has proved all his career that he cannot set up a defense properly to not leak goals. I would bring in a commanding, vocal CB who will lead the others on the pitch and sort it out for the team. someone who will tell the others to get rid when needs be and stop us being such walk overs.who he replaces you decide but for now I would say Jags.

Why the manager and his staff haven’t sorted out the above over the summer when it’s obvious to everyone I don’t know.

Harold Matthews
203 Posted 10/08/2015 at 22:45:45
John V. Yes, The MLS is quite a high standard these days with young players available at reasonable prices. Unfortunately, Everton are not interested.
Terry Hayes
204 Posted 11/08/2015 at 13:55:33
Martinez's third season. Expectations low. First game of season booed off at half time. Enough said.

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