Blues unable to break down the Reds

Everton 1 - 1 Liverpool: Naismith and McCarthy were denied by great saves from Mignolet. Ings scored easily from a corner but Lukaku lashed home a loose ball before the break. The second half was a damp squib.

Michael Kenrick 04/10/2015 283comments  |  Jump to last
Everton 1 - 1 Liverpool

Ramiro Funes Mori started his first derby in place of John Stones, with superb youngsters, Galloway and Browning the full-backs. Coleman did not make the team, with Mason Holgate named to the bench. Everton were therefore unchanged with Barkley, Naismith, Deulofeu and Lukaku the spearhead.

The visitors kicked off and tried to attack but Everton pushed back and there was an openness about the first few back-and-forths, Lukaku almost releasing Naismith, while Funes Mori was required to deploy an early Row Z clearance. Early shots by Barry and Sturridge were well off target.

Browning fouled for a freekick. Skrtel got around Galloway and fired in an excellent cross that looked meat and potatoes for Sturridge but Jagielka got to it first to drive it behind for a corner. More corners followed as the Blues defence was tested, Jagielka just clipping the ball off Ings's toes.

Everton struggled a little to get fluid movement going forward and had to chase the ball while a chance fell to Ings that he lashed just over the bar. Some great step-overs for Lukaku but the pass did not reach Galloway. Everton's challenges were a little too strong for Martin Atkinson, while Liverpool could foul with impugnity, Can restraining Lukaku illegally and Deulofeu going down, as the Blues applied better pressure but could not make the crucial final pass.

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Deulofeu intercepted superbly but again the ball forward to Lukaku was poor. There was a break as Skrtel required treatment on his hand (why on the field?). Atkinson then gave Liverpool a shocking free-kick decision as Milner slipped but the cross came off Skrtel at the far post under great pressure from Funes Mori.


Coutinho put in a clever chip over everyone to Milner running in but the angle was narrowed by Howard who diverted the shot into the side netting. Everton finally got a dangerous set-piece when Barkley was fouled; Barkley took it and whipped in a fantastic ball that Naismith looked to power home with a close-range header but it was close enough for Mignolet to stick out a hand to deny him. McCarthy was next to fire in a brilliant strike that Mignolet dived across to save well.

A clash between Barkley and Can saw lots of handbags develop, yellow cards for both, and Barkley being perhaps a little too wound up as the only scouser on the pitch. Funes Mori did well to deny Sturridge. Can then tried an acrobatic kick that caught Barry and the Gwladys Street screamed for a second yellow but Atkinson was not interested, seeing it as accidental.

Another Liverpool attack developed a little too easily and Jagielka again needed the final interception at the cost of another corner. Everton were trying to get the ball out to Deulofeu, who lost it and Liverpool broke but Funes Mori was across really well to deny Milner; however, Ings scored with a simple header from the resulting corner as Howard stood almost motionless on his line, 3 yards from the dropping cross.

Deulofeu tried his party piece step-overs but Moreno was not fooled and Liverpool attacked again, as the goal underlined their better play. Numerous times in the first half, the ball had been played up to Lukaku but the second ball rarely came off the Big man to a Blue shirt; however, it was him who benefitted from a poor clearance off a Deulofeu cross and he lashed the ball across Mignolet, to set Goodison alight, the perfect riposte just before half-time to rescue sopmething bearing all the hallmarks of another massively disappointing derby.

Everton won an early corner after the break and Browning put in a great header that was deflected behind. The Blues won a free-kick off Milner but didn't use it well, Skrtel being pushed.

Everton were not building well with any kind of fluidity, playing too many early overhit balls and squandering possession, and there was precious little continuity going forward. Skrtel finally penalized for fouling Lukaku, the free-kick not as creative this time, Naismith not getting forward to it. Deulofeu not getting room to attack the ball, three players on him.

Naismith was fouled by Lucas for a dangerous charge but no yellow card. Barkley crossed well but Lukaku was too far behind it as Lennon came on to replace Deulofeu, who could not get into the game. Lennon was much more effective with his first play, but no-one in the middle. Barkley forced a corner on the other side but it was ridiculously overhit, and it was Liverpool who eventually got another corner that Jagielka powered clear.

McCarthy was carded for what looked like a fair tackle on Milner. Everton broke well but Barkley chose to shoot rather than play in someone else and an his shot drifted wide. Naismith headed nicely right to Lukaku's feet and the ball bounced off him like a brick wall...

Lucas was booked for a poor challenge from behind on Barkley. Some better play saw a shot from Funes Morio blocked and the ball spun out to Lukaku who had space and time on the right side of the area to really test Mignolet but instead he drove the ball straight at the Liverpool keeper with the left side of the goal gaping invitingly for the winning score that simply would not come.

A dreadful foul by Sakho on Lukaku went unpunished, but Everton were trying to play Lukaku in at every opportunity. Howard had to block a Coutinho power shot. Lucas clipped McCarthy's heels but did not see yellow. Barkley's effort for the set-piece was poor, straight at the wall as Kone replaced Naismith, and for the Reds Allen replaced Lucas.

Liverpool strung together more attacks but vital blocks prevented damage. Everton looked to break but the ball would not run to Kone, symptomatic of the match. In the last 5 minutes, Everton finally started fighting for the ball and playing with a bit more desire but the visitors resisted and won yet another corner. But it was cleared and again the early ball to Lukaku came to nothing.

A much better passing move down the middle looked to have teed up Lennon but he took an extra touch. Liverpool almost broke but a brilliant interception by Funes Mori cut out the danger. Everton surged forward but the close passing was getting blocked. Sakho and Lukaku went at it off the ball, Sakho getting very upset over Lukaku showing some spirit after being held illegally.

But nothing Everton tried would come off as they mounted a final attacking sequence; it just wasn't happening. A brilliant ball into Lukaku's feet from Lennon but it just bounced off him, summing up a very frustrating game in which Everton rarely showed the required tempo, composure or inventiveness, despite edging the second half against a very beatable Liverpool side.

To sum up the gulf in expectations, Brendan Rodgers was dismissed from his post as Liverpool manager just an hour after the end.

Everton: Howard, Galloway, Funes Mori, Jagielka (c), Browning, Barry, McCarthy [Y:65'], Naismith (79' Kone), Barkley [Y:35'], Deulofeu (60' Lennon), Lukaku [85'].
Subs: Robles, Gibson, Oviedo, Osman, Holgate.

Liverpool: Mignolet, Skrtel, Sakho [Y:85'], Can [Y:35'], Clyne, Moreno, Lucas [Y:69'] (79' Allen), Milner, Coutinho, Ings (76' Lallana), Sturridge.
Subs: Bogdan, Gomez, Rossiter, Ibe, Origi

Kick off: 1.30pm
Martin Atkinson

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Reader Comments (283)

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Victor Jones
1 Posted 04/10/2015 at 13:55:38
Our usual slow start. Why did I think it would be any different? Let's keep this tight until half-time. And let's not concede.

We can win this in the second half, when a few of our players wake up. And maybe Kone and Gibson come on. Martinez needs to earn his corn today.COYBs

Alexander O'Brien
2 Posted 04/10/2015 at 14:30:57
Another goal for lukaku there! Where would we be without him aye????
Wesley Mitchell
3 Posted 04/10/2015 at 14:32:00
We are too bloody deep. Watch the difference between our goalkicks and theirs. Push Browning and Galloway onto their wingbacks and force them to hit long balls up to Sturridge. We can have these...
Christy Ring
4 Posted 04/10/2015 at 14:36:22
Ings scored from 3 yards out, Tim Howard should be catching it, absolutely SHOCKING. You can say Barkley was marking him, but Howard is like Dracula, he hates crosses.
Gary Carter
5 Posted 04/10/2015 at 14:51:12
Deulofeu had to come off, ducking out of headers and tackles, constantly giving the ball away, not a good game for him.

Let’s see what Lennon can do, I would have gone for Kone personally as he’s wanting it this season.

Paul Hughes
6 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:28:42
We sat to deep in the 2nd half we where afraid to loose instead of going for the win.

Howard was a disgrace for their goal; why he can’t come and punch the ball in his 6-yard box, I will never know.

Mike Allison
7 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:28:57
How does that refereeing keep happening every single year?
Wesley Mitchell
8 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:30:52
Very disappointed with the performance. We were happy to play on the counter attack which against a poor Liverpool team is annoying. We never pressed well enough on their back 3 and you could tell that if we squeezed them enough then there were plenty of goals.

I think that Barry and Co were hoping for Stones and Coleman to be fit and when they weren’t it hit their confidence at really taking the game to them.

Rambo/Jags did well but Browning reminded me of Hibbert, good defender but terrified to play forward. Our momentum continues but another missed opportunity. IMO

Mike Price
9 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:39:04
Howard is a total liability and apart from one miraculous game, Naismith isn't good enough.

Terrible decision to not send Lucas off but no surprise there, and the mental block goes on.

Julian Wait
10 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:39:56
#1- Can (ed: already on a yellow), who holds off Barry at first and then almost takes the Everton man’s head off with an overhead kick

#2 - Lucas (ed: already on a yellow) intentionally trips McCarthy from behind (ed: in a very advanced attacking position / break) and somehow escapes a second booking. That’s pathetic refereeing from Martin Atkinson

That's the Guardian's descriptions, not mine (my parentheses)

Julian Wait
11 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:40:17
On a positive note, Rodgers is sill manager of the RS
Nev Renshaw
12 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:42:16
What is it with referees and the Merseyside derby. Cards every time, spoils the game entirely.
David Barks
13 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:43:18
People on the forum saying we're still off to a good start. Meanwhile Liverpool are in crisis mode. Yet it's only 1 point that separates us from them. Once again that just says it all about the lack of ambition and expectations of this club's supporters.

For me that was another match that can just be summed up very simply as "not good enough". A draw at home is a poor result. A draw against a club with no confidence and cries for their manager to be sacked is a very poor result.

Yet they can win next week and if we draw or lose they'll be above us in the table. Can't use Europe as an excuse this season, we're not in and they are. Very poor result.

Michael Penley
14 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:43:55
Atkinson was clearly told not to send anyone off. He was the last ref to send off someone in a derby game.
Wesley Mitchell
15 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:43:56
The refereeing is not the reason we never won. There is a repetitive theme about us this season and it is we start poorly on a regular basis. When the team understands and fixes this problem, I truly believe we will start blowing teams away.

Martinez needs to change this bad habit with his tactics. He kept on shouting Gerry to track Moreno in first half; wrong advice.

Jason Murray
16 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:45:13
I thought our back four were outstanding again today although we didn’t do enough attacking wise to win it unfortunately. Howard should be ashamed of himself for not preventing their goal, sticking to his line like that.

I’m happy we didn’t lose but disappointed we didn’t impose ourselves more on the game. That Redshite team were very beatable and we should’ve shown our superiority because we are much better than them.

Colin Glassar
17 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:45:53
I am a big Martinez fan but that was a cowardly performance IMO. They have a really poor defence but we stood back and gave them all the time in the world to play the ball out. We made them look good.
Michael Polley
18 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:47:13
Another typical derby match – another draw. I thought overall we were the better team, but we lacked the final touch in their penalty area.

Lukaku showed great strength holding up the ball, but needed more support. I thought the back 4 were excellent. Galloway was great, Jags made some crucial tackles, and Funes Mori stood up to the occasion well.

Howard was at fault for their goal. Stood on his line like a statue rather than coming out and claiming the cross.

Not really disappointed, but a win would've been great. All things considered, I’m happy with the commitment shown by both the old guard and young lads in the team. The memories of last season are quickly fading.

Julian Wait
19 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:47:45
I like McCarthy and he runs his socks off, but after he got a yellow, looked like he might get another, and we couldn’t unlock their crap defence.

I was screaming for Gibson to come on for last 15 or even 10. He could have been the difference.

Victor Jones
20 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:48:21
At least we managed to come back (yet again) and get something out of the game. I would have taken this start to the season (as I admit that I was worried after the rubbish served up last season) and I think that we can get better. We have a number of poor teams still to play: Newcastle, Sunderland, Aston Villa... we need to beat those teams.

To those crying out for wingers. Do they always do the business for Everton? I wonder. Pointless trying to out guess Martinez. I would have played Kone ahead of Naismith all day long. And Deulofeu still had a lot to learn. Our stand in defenders are great. No worries there. But we really do need to go get a new GK. Howard and Robles are not the answers.

Honours even. But we should have won. Still we have come on a lot since I sat through Rush scoring 4 against us. I would have bitten my arm off to get a draw back then. But these are different times. And today TBH I am disappointed with the draw. Not with our start to the season, just the draw today.

Let’s beat Man Utd in a few weeks time.

Jamie Crowley
22 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:54:27
I wonder if Mignolet hadn’t made two superb saves if some people would be singing the same tune.

I don’t blame Bobby at all for this. I’d have started Naisy and left him in as long as possible. He’s the perfect gnat for the derby.

Subbing Lennon and Kone I think was good timing, giving Del and Naisy plenty of time to produce, changing the game when they tired.

Just didn’t come off.

I'm not upset about this game, approach, or effort at all. Funes Mori was immense. Jags great. Lukaku a beast.

Wanted 3 points and on another day we take 3 points. I don’t see all the negatives some do.

Brian Williams
23 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:56:57
Have to say I’m left feeling "deflated" after today’s game because I think with a bit more desire to win the game in the last 20 minutes or so we could have beaten what is no more than an average side.

There were some very good points about the performance mind. The back four were outstanding (their goal not withstanding) and those two young full backs deserve real praise.

Disappointed in/for Gerry (despite the pass for the goal) who appears to sulk a little when things don’t go right. If he matures a bit and realizes hard graft will help better than sulking he’ll improve greatly.

The ref may as well have worn a Redshite shirt as he gave them most of everything. I just wish the will to win a derby outdid the fear of losing one for once, because I think winning that was well within us.

Dave Pritchard
24 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:57:00
More support for Rom and we would have won. Naismith and Del did not help him enough and my only real criticism of RM is that Kone should have replaced Nais earlier.

The back four were tremendous with Funes Mori and Browning not overawed at all. Jags and Galloway excellent as usual. Galloway looks like he’s been there as long as Jags.

David Barks
26 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:57:44
Jamie Crowley,

You don't see the negatives in failing to beat a very poor team, at home, and not being able to beat that team for 5 years? Happy with a draw at home to a poor side. Good for you, bad for Everton.

Mike Dolan
27 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:58:46
Good game I thought. We should have won but didn’t take our chances. I would have liked to have seen Gibson on in the second half because he might just be our best all-around midfielder.

Close, close, close... but close doesn’t win you anything .

Andrew Clare
28 Posted 04/10/2015 at 15:58:51
Disappointed that we didn’t win but pleased with the continuing progress of Browning, Galloway and Funes Mori. Funes Mori is a class player no doubt about it.

We should have put their back line under constant pressure but we didn’t and I think that is why we didn’t win.

They are not are very good side but as usual our mental block regarding derby games stopped us from taking them apart. I’m glad that game is out of the way now we can beat the Mancs next match.

Steve Brown
29 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:01:00
Colin (#13), think you are being unusually harsh. It would make sense if your comments were directed at them.

We definitely went out to win in the second half, but lacked composure around their last third. They on the other hand fouled their way to a draw with the help of a terrible ref.

Big ups for me were Rom and Jags as Jamie@16 said, but hats off to Gareth Barry who was great today.

Jamie Crowley
30 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:01:52
David -

That's silly. Of course there's a negative in not taking 3 points at home.

Not upset about the game (way we played), the approach (tactics and lineup were fine with me), or effort (we tired but I thought we played hard).

Of course I wanted to win. Word twisting, or maybe a poor command of explaining myself fully... I wanted us to batter them and I think we outplayed them and I'm crushed those 2 "goals" didn't go in due to some incredible keeping by Mignolet.

Never once said I was happy.

Steve Brown
31 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:06:52
I think this Liverpool team resembles Stoke under Pullis: high pressure, niggling fouls to break up play, long balls to counter attack and reliance on corners. They are diabolical after having £100M spent on them.
Colin Glassar
32 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:08:38
Steve 22, our problem against them is psychological IMO. This is one of the worst RS teams I’ve ever seen (they really are poor) but I think we’d struggle against one of their academy teams.

To prove my point, I bet we beat Man Utd and Arsenal as we play with a certain freedom against those types of teams.

Christy Ring
33 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:09:37
Atkinson bottled it, no surprise there, but how was a deliberate trip by Lucas not a 2nd yellow? He showed his true colours (red).

Disappointed not to win it, McCarthy and Barry bossed midfield, Lukaku tried hard, got little help from Naismith who should have scored, but after Howard’s howler and with Stones and Coleman missing, a point against 12 redshites is the least we deserved.

Jamie Crowley
35 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:11:48
Atkinson was... Shit. Horrible.
Ian Jones
36 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:12:34
David @10. Re your comment about ours and Liverpool’s position in terms of points difference and ambition. If you consider the teams we have played so far this year, we are not doing too badly. You could say that Liverpool’s first 8 games have been against in theory lesser teams so their total points haul should be better.

I suppose it will be easier to judge after the first 19 games or so. With a bit of luck we we will be well ahead of them going into next derby.

John Keating
37 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:13:46
Apart from the assistance from that clown Howard the RS could still be playing another week and never score against us.

A free header from 2 yards is a fucking disgrace.

Steve Brown
38 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:14:07
Colin, agreed we were daunted in the first 20 mins but cowardly is a bit harsh. After a shaky start we settled and dominated, but lacked that killer edge in attack.

They’ll get what’s coming to them in the the end, but like everyone it gnaws at me that they got away with a draw again. I thought RM went for the win but the players didn't do it for him.

Victor Jones
39 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:15:01
IMO, Martinez got his team selection wrong today. And also a number of supporters got everything wrong.

The call for Deulofeu back-fired. He never got into the game.

We have about seven players who should never be left out. Then we have difficult decisions. Kone or Naismith? Deulofeu or Lennon? Or again Naismith? Mirallas ? Gibson? Cleverley? Besic?

Who plays at LB when Baines is fit? Martinez needs to sort out who his best 11 are, and play them (barring injuries) every week. Me thinks he tinkers too much.

And once again... we need a new top class GK. And I have been saying that for a few seasons now.

Steve Brown
40 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:16:21
Plus they had their 12th man in Atkinson. Now that tosspot WAS cowardly.
Steve Brown
41 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:17:57
John (#29), Howard is the only goalie I know who thinks his sole remit is to patrol his goal line.
Paul Tran
42 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:19:33
I didn’t see any mental block out there. We worked our socks off, the back four were superb, especially Funes Mori and Galloway, Barry had yet another good game, Lukaku was immense. Deulofeu was anonymous other than one cross, Lennon was equally so when he came on.

Howard had little to do, but had to come and get that ball for the goal. Every goalkeeper stops shots, but the good goalkeepers are the solid one who consistently get the basics right. He doesn’t and needs replacing in January.

We tried hard, we tried to win the game, but the keeper cost us a soft goal and we simply weren’t good enough in the final third.

Jim Lloyd
43 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:20:27
I thought we played wuite well today. Not brilliant but quite well. I thought Rom was excellent today and more or less took their defence on his own.

Ross has a lot to learn, I think. He strolls round at times when he is not on the ball, and heought to be snapping at the opposition to get the ball back and I hope he learns to look around and spread the ball quicker.

The two young lads played really well and showed a great deal of maturity, and Barry had a good game as well.

My top Marks were for Ramiro. He never looked out of place, mixed hard, no nonsense defending with some superb covering and brought the ball out of defence well. For his second full match in a new team; and it being a derby, he was superb.

Their goalie did his job well and pulled off two top class saves off our lads.

Considering what they’ve paid out for their squad in comparison to ours, we had as good if not the better of the match.

They’ll pretend it was a valiant point won, when they would be expected to be winning this game.

So not bad at all.

Can I just say, and this might be a surprise to some, Mr Atkinson was Absolutely Appalling... and that was in his better moments.

Jim Lloyd
44 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:22:22
PS, totally agreed about Tim Howard. That was two goals, Monday and today that should have been prevenmted by Tim Howard coming off his line and claiming the ball.
Trevor Lynes
45 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:26:02
Looking at our starting side I was apprehensive with both Coleman and Stones missing. I wondered how that back four would cope with Sturridge and Coutinho.

By the end I was sorry we had not got all the points but it was a fine performance against another mega rich side. If we had managed to sign a proper playmaker (Silva) we would be championship contenders. We have two more games against the top sides in Man Utd and Arsenal. After ten games I will be delighted if we do not lose either of those two.I reckon we can beat Utd at Goodison and a point at Arsenal would be brilliant. Five points or even more would be a top return.

Bill Gall
46 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:26:32
When is Martinez ever going to learn about how to defend from corners. Every time the opposition get a corner a close my eyes and fear the worst.
Paul Thompson
47 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:26:44
The team was nervous in the first half, in part I think because of the newness of the defensive line-up. As Carragher said on Sky, he thought Liverpool would win when he saw that Coleman and Stones weren’t playing. I feared the same.

But we played ourselves into it and looked much stronger defensively second half, especially with Barry patrolling in front. Going forward we just don’t have enough guile or creativity – what’s new? But Lukaku certainly gave everything and had a good game until he tired.

Rob Coles
48 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:29:35
A game of two goalkeepers. Ours let us down AGAIN. And their's saved them......
Jim Lloyd
49 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:30:05
I don't think it was anything to do with Martinez, how we lost that goal. It was easily preventable if Howard had come 2 or 3 yards off his line and collected an easy cross. He did the same on Monday.
Tony Twist
50 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:30:26
The team really needs to get over the fear of beating the RS; we won’t get a better opportunity than we had today to wipe the smiles off their faces.

We are shy of two players to make a Champions League team, we need a natural goal scorer and a central midfielder like Alonso of years ago who can go box to box, breaking up opposition attacks and who can create chances with defence-splitting balls to the attackers in our team.

Very average result today, it could've been so much better with a bit of belief.

Victor Jones
51 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:33:34
Ian Jones (#28). Spot on with your comment. We on paper have had a far harder start to the season than the RS. I remember after the Watford draw, some of our fellow supporters thought we would be pushed to have about six points by now. So on that basis, we have had a good start.

The RS have hard games to come. Our fixtures should in about a month, become easier (on paper anyway). And I honestly feel that we will get better. There is something in the air.

I never have Everton beat until the fat lady sings. Or is that the "old lady"?

Gavin Johnson
52 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:33:39
The RS were there for the taking, but we were always up against it with the that shit house Atkinson as their 12th man. Some of his decisions were terrible. I think Can should have been sent off for his reaction to Barkley and then the kick to Barry's head - IMO he knew what he was doing.

We should have won, but I'll take the positives from Rom's clinical finish and the defensive display - Funes Mori handled the derby well.

I was praising Tim Howard the other night (which is a first for me) but he shouldn't be rooted to his line when a balls coming in from 3 yards out. It was bad goalkeeping.

Colin Glassar
53 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:33:57
Two goals coming from two corners. In both cases Howard stood still and Ross lost his man. Where the hell was Martinez? Surely he should've been covering the back post?
Sean Patton
54 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:34:43
Have to agree with Colin here as that was just not good enough in terms of an attacking performance. On Monday when it was 2-2, we were pushing for the winner yet here with the clock ticking down on another stalemate we were dicking about with the ball on the touchline, there was no intent to win the game.

You can can bet your life it won't be like that in the next game if the scoreline is the same so why is it different against them? Martinez has never won a derby and he never will if he settles for safety-first scaredy-cat tactics.

Paul McGinty
55 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:35:08
After West Brom, it was pretty clear any team not already doing so, would test us on corners. Surely anything in the 6-yard area in front of goal has to be the keeper's. Lose the header and odds favor the attacker.

The coaches have to sort this – out defensive corners are an adventure. Two goals in a week conceded isn’t good enough.

Big Rom was up for it today – bummer, two points dropped.

Mike Price
56 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:35:14
I just hope that Martinez highlights Atkinson's shocking decisions. If Carragher is calling Atkinson a bottler, then it needs to be hammered home.

Howard is the worst keeper in this league, by a mile. He’s so bad, that not only does he continually cost us points, but he affects the psyche of the rest of the team. Martinez needs to be ruthless because Howard is really holding us back. Any other keeper in the league and we win that match.

Tony Hill
57 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:41:34
I thought we were comfortably the better team, indeed that was a very poor Liverpool side. We were, in truth, playing with 10 men for much of the game because Gerry had a stinker and then we didn't get Lennon in enough.

Barry was excellent and Funes Mori is a major plus for us. I also thought Browning played very well today.

No panic as far as I'm concerned. I am still very happy with our start but today does show again that we need someone with real pace and incisiveness up front to support Lukaku. Nessie isn't that man and should have come off for Kone 10 minutes sooner.

A crafty midfielder would be nice too, but that's an old story.

Sean Patton
58 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:42:02
Another thing: why bring Deulofeu off for Lennon why not play with two wingers and stretch the play? Can was on a yellow card so bring on a pacy wideman to run at him.
Chris Leyland
59 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:45:52
We’ve got to be beating these average, mid-table teams at home.
Colin Glassar
60 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:48:21
The only positive to come out of this game is that it's proven that Tim Vickery is a complete arsehole and knows nothing about Latin American football. Maybe the BBC should ask for their money back from this fraud. Funes Mori is going to be a top, top player.
Terry Aylward
62 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:52:47
I said on yesterday’s forum that Deulofeu can’t beat his man and gets frustrated when he doesn’t. Apart from the cross that gave us our goal, he was a liability on a couple of occasions when he lost the ball.

I’m not saying that Lennon is the answer but I have more confidence when he has the ball that we’ll keep possession.

Colin Williams
63 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:53:15
Told you "Howard lovers"... He is shite! How the feck could you rate this guy?

Funes Mori, Galloway; Barry, Lukaku were superb!! Ross, Jags, Browning, Macca done well. Naismith runs around moaning and does feck-all but miss most of his chances.

Biggest disappointment has normal is our goalkeeper... He is a fecking disgrace! Unlucky blues!

Dave Ganley
65 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:54:34
Another opportunity lost today. We may have had all the play in the 2nd half but created so little. Yes, the mental block is still there; otherwise, we would have gone for the jugular against a very average RS team.

The referee was poor I agree, but to blame him for our own mistakes in not making enough chances is putting the blinkers on. Also, to blame Howard for their goal is churlish too. There was absolutely no-one marking Ings, in the 6 yard area and free as a bird to head in as easily as you like.

On the plus side, I thought Lukaku was immense and Barry had a good game too. McCarthy broke up everything that the RS tried and apart from the goal, the back 4 played well too.

The problem was the upper midfield. Barkley had a bit of a stinker today as did Deulofeu. Why Gibson didn’t come on is anybody’s guess as it was crying out for someone to thread a pass through a packed defence. Martinez took the plaudits on Monday night for his subs and rightly so as it changed the game for the better, today he misjudged it and didn’t make the necessary changes that the game was crying out for.

As I said at the top of the post, definitely a missed opportunity and all the excuses under the sun aren’t going to change that.

Andrew Presly
66 Posted 04/10/2015 at 16:58:39
They won’t get worse than this that’s the sad reality.

When are we going to cut the chord on the dead weight clown in goal? Serious question. End of this season? Is he the starting keeper going into next season? No way we’re winning a trophy if so, no way. Again, sad as we’ve got the makings of a decent side. Barry, Barkley, Lukaku, Galloway and Funes Mori good today.

Atkinson – the Lucas stuff is obvious incompetence or cheating; it was the late Coutinho free-kick he allowed to be taken 10 yards further forward and which nearly put Sturridge in, that’s when I flipped.

Tony Hill
67 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:04:10
Another cheering thought, despite the frustration, is that we'll only be 3 points off second tonight. It's just our misfortune that our bogey team is our neighbour but I've seen us lose those sort of games at Goodison before and it'll be sweeter to win at their place when it may matter more.
Ray Roche
68 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:11:09
It’s almost enough to say that Brenda thought the referee was "Excellent". I bet he does!

What a cowardly, biased and vile low life Atkinson is. I bet that, when he retires, he does a "Midgley" and admits to having been a Reds supporter all his life.

Duncan McDine
69 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:11:54
Frustrating game, the RS were very average and got away with one certain sending off. The Can overhead kick wasn’t worthy of a second yellow IMO, but Lucas should have had 3 or 4 yellow cards during the match! Doesn’t surprise me though these days, any 50/50 call goes their way.

I think Ross is as much to blame as Howard for Ings’ free header, and the same goes for WBA actually. Deulofeu didn’t affect the game enough. I wonder if Lennon should have started, then Gerard could have come on later in the game when we had good chances for breakaways.

The positives are that Rom was excellent, Jags at his best again, and Funes Mori put in a great display.

Jay Harris
70 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:19:13
For the first time today I saw the Lukaku that everyone raves about. He looked more like a supercharged big Duncan, let’s hope it continues.

I thought Browning and Funes Mori were outstanding today. The only person who let the side down was the referee with some appalling decisions.

Blatant wrestle to the ground from Skrtel on Jags. Ings pushed Barkley in the back for their goal although Ross has to do better from corners.

Lucas should have had a second yellow and he makes us take a free kick again for a suggested moving ball but allows them to get away with a rolling ball and a wrong position for one of theirs.

The FA need to look into this. There is far too much bias for it to be errors from referees.
Rant over. Good game we should have won but our time will come.

Clive Rogers
71 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:19:48
Sean (#58),

Because Deulofeu was dreadful, giving the ball away every time he got it.

Stephen Brown
72 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:23:53
Been thinking about writing something about Jageilka for a while but today has made me do it!! He has had some criticism now and again but he really has been a great servant for us for a very long time!

It’s jogged my memory when someone mentioned it was him missing the FA Cup Final in '09 that really hurt us! Nearly 6 years on and he’s still doing a good job especially recently when he helped out 3 new players in the defence!

He’s the type of player I think we will realise how good he was/is only when he’s gone! Well done, Jags!

James Stewart
73 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:25:00
Mixed feelings; I thought we did really well considering they virtually had 12 men!

Awful performance from the ref. Failed to control the game early on and adopted a bizarre 'yellow for all' approach to any kind of scrap. How Lukaku got a booking for being shoved was a joke. The Lucas one showed his true cowardice though.

Defensively good apart from Howard who had a poor game. Quite lucky he didn’t give a pen away early on and their goal was classic Howard.

At the other end only Lukaku and Barkley carried a threat. We didn’t create much for the big man who had the beating of their centre backs all game. Distinct lack of quality from both flanks until Kone and Lennon were introduced. Naismith isn’t a starter for me.

Graham Mockford
74 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:27:40
Duncan McDine #69

Just got back from the game and I agree with everything you posted.

I would add to your list both Galloway and Barry who was the best midfield player on the park.

It feels a little frustrating because I think with a) a little more ambition and b) a little more luck, there were three points for the taking.

James Marshall
75 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:29:05
I enjoyed the game today. Some bad refereeing, especially for not sending Lucas off but overall we played well. The RS are as someone above said, a lot like a Tony Pulis side - niggly, and spend most of the time disrupting the flow. I guess when you lack a decent team that's what you have to resort to and apart from Milner, Sturridge and Coutinho they're an average outfit in every department.

Aside from two great saves from Mignolet, we would have scored 2 in the first half. On reflection we were probably the better team but it was an entertaining, hard fought game. Lukaku was excellent today, but sadly Naismith and Deulofeu were both a bit of a let-down.

Good defensively, apart from their goal but it was a sneaky little push in the back on Barkley by Ings that made all the difference so you can't really blame anyone (I know some people are laying into Howard for not coming out).

We're 3 points off second place which I think is the most important thing to keep in mind after today.

Tim O'Connell
76 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:30:34
Disappointing result again against the RS but some good performances. The inexperienced defence did well, lead by an outstanding Jagielka. Galloway gets better and better and is not afraid of anything. Funes Mori again did well.

Like a number of posters, I think Tim should have commanded the 6-yard area and prevented the goal. Rom was at times outstanding, just tiring at the end. Ross had another good performance as did Macca and Barry. We have to break the hoodoo soon and also have a decent ref!

Plato Stavrinos
79 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:42:58
Funes Mori was immense today. Very poor Liverpool side and we should have won it comfortably.
Peter Barry
80 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:43:25
Why is it that in every derby match we have to play against 12 men?
Dave Abrahams
81 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:48:38
If you don’t practice corners, defending and attacking them, then mistakes will continue to occur, and they do.

Martinez wasn’t adventurous enough, we were the home team and Liverpool are a very poor team at the moment, that’s four games at home and seven points dropped already, not good enough in my opinion.

I couldn’t write anything about Howard without getting barred off here.

Aidan Trimble
82 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:52:48
I must take issue with the criticism of Howard. The only player at fault for the goal was Barkley. I'm assuming that many of the people having a go at Howard were at the game and hence didn’t have the benefit of the multiple replays that I did sitting in Hartlepool Old Boys Rugby Club.

It was as never Howard’s ball to come and claim, Barkley misjudged his jump and got under the ball. He probably shouldn’t be defending set pieces and would probably be better outside the box for the counter-attack.

Graham Mockford
83 Posted 04/10/2015 at 17:54:25
I also don’t see Howard responsible for the goal in any way. I know lots on here think keepers should be getting anything in their six-yard box but it’s not a simple as that to me.

I just re-watched the goal, the ball is whipped in hard. We have five defenders in the six-yard box, they have one player. It’s pretty simple Barkley lost his man (for the second time in a week) misjudged the flight of the ball, got underneath it and left a free header for Ings.

You have to wonder why one of our centre halves is not marking Ings or is taking a central position on the edge of the six yard box.

Either way Barkley is not the man to be in that position.

Peter Roberts
84 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:02:40
I’ll start off - Lukaku was outstanding today.

Did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them.

Never before have I seen the same player who can look so bad but also look immense.

Every excuse under the sun gets thrown his way. He scores goals, he’s 22, broken toe, isolated, style of play... Blah blah blah. Well guess what, today he was 22, at times very isolated, style of play wasn’t his preference but he was the best player on the pitch... IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS UP FOR IT.

The lad should not be getting excused for performances that we have been seeing. Graham Souness nailed it before kick off: "You can’t pick and choose when you fancy it" mdash; you need to do it every game.

Today he was up for it, and when he is, he’s a handful. No more excuses, the lad can do it. It’s up to him.

Unlucky not to get 3 points, that shithouse ref should never run another of our games.

James Marshall
85 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:03:38
Graham - if you watch it again, just before Ross jumps to head the ball, Ings pushes him forward just enough to make him miss it.

Their goal is actually a smart piece of play by Ings, and not anyone’s fault.

We on here seem obsessed with making someone culpable for every goal we concede, when the truth of the matter is that it isn’t always anyone's fault at all.

There is another team out there and they sometimes (always) affect things.

Tony Hill
86 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:05:30
A good goalkeeper cannot be rooted to his line. Howard usually is on corners or free kicks. I think most top rank goalkeepers would have come for that corner today and would have caught it or punched it.

Of course, defenders have a duty too but the best keepers take the initiative.

Aidan Trimble
87 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:07:09
The 'push' on Barkley didn't affect his jump at all, he simply misjudged the flight of the ball.
Graham Mockford
88 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:09:59

That may be the case but when marking a player you get touch tight and don’t get yourself in a position where you can be done in such a way.

I still don’t understand why we have a midfield player in a position where a centre half should be.

If you concede two very similar goals in a week, it’s something that needs sorting out.

Dave White
89 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:12:11
I’m flippin (pardon my French) livid!!! I’ve stuck up for Howard time and time again but today was the last straw! A Premier League goalkeeper simply MUST command his 6-yard box!!! The West Brom goal on Monday was bad enough but Ings today was a blimmin (French again) joke!

Howard is great with his feet and a fine shot-stopper but that is simply not enough. I know this, I’m a goalkeeper myself, I’m shite on crosses, which is why I never made it out of the Cardiff & District League! What I don’t understand is in the second half he took two high balls with no trouble at all? It seems like his trouble comes with corners and crosses from the goaline... he just appears to poop (encore Francais) himself!

I’ll put this out there... if we had Robles in goal today, he would not have conceded that goal.

I’ll be the first to admit Robles looked like another Massimo Taibi when he joined, but, in that run of 6 or so games he had last season when Howard was injured, he grew into a commanding and confident keeper.

I was massively piddled (!) off when Howard went straight back in the side as soon as he was fit. It sent out a terrible message to Robles and it was really poor management.

Keepers are all about confidence and consistency. We’ll always make mistakes but the best ones inspire their teammates with their confidence, and dealing with crosses is perhaps the best way to inspire your back 4 with confidence. Robles took his chance in the team and conceded (I believe) 1 goal in 5 games. He earned the right to have a run in the team. For me Martinez got that call totally wrong.

A draw was the right result today over the 90, but for me, my enduring memories of that game will be a world class save from Mignolet and a howler from Howard.

Trevor Lynes
90 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:14:29
Great to see fans who really appreciate Jagielka who for me is the player of the season so far !

He has been played alongside so many green centre backs and gave them confidence due to his unflappable playing style. This guy never gets booked and never gives away free kicks in dangerous areas. I actually rate him as good as any centre back we have had in my experience which dates back to 1948. It is no coincidence that Stones and the two full backs have blossomed playing alongside him and I am sure that Mori will also appreciate playing with him.His blocking is all about experience and positional sense and long may him stay fit long enough to enjoy a couple more seasons at the helm. Watching Terry and Cahill of late Jags is head and shoulders better than both of them.

We just need a real playmaker who can find that killer pass to turn us into a competitive title challenging side.

Peter Roberts
91 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:15:40
I’ll start off - Lukaku was outstanding today.

Did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them.

Never before have I seen the same player who can look so bad but also look immense.

Every excuse under the sun gets thrown his way. He scores goals, he’s 22, broken toe, isolated, style of play... Blah blah blah. Well guess what, today he was 22, at times very isolated, style of play wasn’t his preference but he was the best player on the pitch... IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS UP FOR IT.

The lad should not be getting excused for performances that we have been seeing. Graham Souness nailed it before kick off "you can’t pick and choose when you fancy it" - you need to do it every game.

Today he was up for it and when he is - he’s a handful. No more excuses, the lad can do it. It’s up to him.

Unlucky not to get 3 points, that shit house ref should never run another of our games. Made up for Mori, the Google scouts look a bit silly with their daft early knee jerk reactions.

Graham Mockford
92 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:17:30
Peter Roberts

"did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them"

Let me just remind you what you said about him after the Swansea game.

"His ability as a footballer is very poor. I don’t think I’ve seen a player with such a poor touch, he can’t jump, his runs lack intelligence for this level, and his right foot has absolutely no sense of direction – it’s his swinger."

Yes you are so justified.

Ken Finch
93 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:18:51
I, too, am just back from the match. 2 points lost today rather than 1 point gained. This was a game against the poorest Liverpool team I can recall. Aside from their 2 full backs, they lack any quality. Their best team member may have been the ref; some strange decisions but most of them for the red team!

But that’s enough about them; so what about us?

The spine of the team in outfield positions was very good: Jagielka, Funes Mori, Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku were stars. Galloway is definitely one for the future; Browning got better as the game went on. Naismith was a bit off the pace bug he was targeted for some ale house challenges; Barkley did some nice things but tended to go for the wrong pass plus he is not good at defending corners as others have commented. Howard was okay but, again as others have said, makes me cringe at corners. Deulofeu was off the pace today but was well marked.

We had some good spells but seemed to lack the belief that we could win. There were a good number of times when we did up the game but it wasn’t sustained enough.

Overall, frustrating when the game was there for the taking. We need to believe we can do it as we have shown already this season; let’s show Man Utd that last season's result can be repeated.


Dave White
94 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:20:01
Oh gosh Graham please don't pull out a quote from me praising Howard in 2007!
Jim Bennings
95 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:22:35
Satisfactory result with a patched defence but disappointing that we failed to beat what is one of the worst Liverpool sides I’ve certainly seen at Goodison.

We still seem to be lacking that little bit of quality in the attacking midfield area, still don’t see Barkley as the real answer to being that creative number 10 and nobody will convince me otherwise.

Don’t get me wrong he’s a good player Barkley but not what some games are crying out for. The man we really missed out on and could have been the new Arteta, was a snip at £10 million: Yohan Cabaye.

I also became frustrated in the second half as Lukaku became more and more isolated with very few players in blue willing to get close to him in the box.

All-in-all, a decent result, not great given how ordinary this Redshite team is and disappointed yet another derby has gone without a win.

We look a steady team. I think a few got a bit carried away after some good results and started talking of top 4 finishes... Not for me, at least not yet; let’s see what we do in January. We still need at least one more attacking central midfielder and arguably a better goalkeeper than Tim "I never get a cut head because I go for everything with my legs" Howard.

Shane Corcoran
96 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:22:50
The ref should’ve given Lucas a second yellow. He should have given Barkley a yellow for kicking the ball away and for his deliberate dive.

He gave Lukaku at least one free when he was grappling with Skrtel when it was 50/50.

Blue glasses again lads. I thought he was poor enough but not in favour of either team. Oh, he let them take a free from the wrong place too which could have been a disaster.

Lukaku very good, Howard very poor, Deulofeu poor but he probably wasn’t used to the pace of it. McCarthy was good at what he does but I feel he leaves us a man short in midfield when we have it as he just adds nothing when we’re in possession.

Jay Harris
97 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:24:07

I agree with you about the push but Ross is a big lad and needs to learn from that as does Howard in organizing the defense from corners.

Overall a moral victory but that doesn’t get you 3 points.

Outstanding performances from Lukaku and Jags.

Very good performances from everyone else except Geri who couldn’t get into the game.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Wrestling of Jags to the ground by Skrtl - a blatant penalty.

John Keating
98 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:24:34
Graham (#83);

I watched the goal at the time and was bewildered why Howard never claimed the ball. I have watched it half a dozen times now on the telly. How you can say the ball was whipped in hard is in my opinion unbelievable.
It was a fucking lob and Howard had loads of time to see it and its trajectory. It was criminal that clown didn’t step out a couple of yards and claim it.

When I think of corners being whipped in, I think of Andy Hinchcliffe, certainly not that cross today. Whether Barkley lost his man or was pushed or fell over his arse is totally immaterial; any goalkeeper not claiming a high cross landing 3 yards off his goal line with nobody interfering with his position needs fucking.

Graham Mockford
99 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:24:41
Dave White

I really wasn't planning to but thanks for including "o gosh" in a post, I think it is an interjection that has unfairly gone out of fashion and I for one would like to hear it more.

Sam Hoare
100 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:25:02
A very solid display with lots of good individual performances.

The regret was that we could have ’gone for it’ a lot more. I felt we were a little bit too scared to lose but, as we all know, you get more for a win followed by a loss than for two draws which might well be the result if we are similarly nervous of committing men forward against Man Utd.

Good to see Lukaku back on it though Ross looked a little leggy to me in the second half. Back 4 were pretty excellent throughout, I thought, with special mention to Funes Mori and Browning who haven’t had much game time. Serious strength in depth in the back line.

Terry McLavey
101 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:26:03
I thought we should have won today, but a least we didn’t roll over when we go behind so that is some improvement.

We need to get some of these injured players back, but we’re not completely shafted when we lose players anymore so that’s an improvement too.

Let's hope they're still shit when we go across the park that’ll hurt more!

Martin Mason
102 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:27:52
Only a truly bitter Blue could find anything wholly negative in how the club is going about its business nowadays. We’ve spent nothing compared with Liverpool (a massive positive) and we’re expected to know our place but again we played well, didn’t lose and could easily have taken 3 points.

We are at least their equals at a fraction of their stupid spending and we’re 10 times more credible, if we threw off our phobias about Liverpool, we would beat them regularly as they are not a shred better than us in any way.

We have a conveyor belt of excellent club developed talent coming through into the first team and possibly the best squad we’ve had in decades courtesy of the excellent planning and ambition of the club. I see nothing but positives in what is happening with the club and believe that if we have a problem it is only this sad minority of our own fans who spout negatives because they want to find negatives whatever happens.

I personally still see RM as the weak link in that he has no fix yet on our best strategies and player positions but he is the manager and I believe he is still learning and will prove me wrong in the long run. Today was a disappointing result but a good one nonetheless.

Graham Mockford
103 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:30:02
John #98

So the five defenders in the six-yard box are there for what? Maybe if keepers should get everything in their six-yard box maybe it’s pointless putting defenders in there. Just have them all floating around the penalty spot.

How Howard is to blame when Barkley loses his man is beyond me. But of course it’s nothing new on here.

Darren Hind
104 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:30:07
Just seen their goal again, Ings was very cute easing Barkley under the ball with the palm of his hand in the small of his back...

Not the result we wanted, but we go again.

Ray Roche
105 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:31:28
Howard is, quite rightly, getting stick for his failure to command his area, especially at corners, but let’s see how the team would do if we were to actually PRACTICE defending corners.

I don’t want to have a pop at a much improved Martinez but he has stated in the past that we don’t need to practice defending set pieces. WTF? Two goals in two games both from corners.....

Lewis Roll
106 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:33:25
Rodgers gone! We have a habit of ending careers.
Matt Traynor
107 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:35:31
Bollocks, the only good thing about that draw was Shiny Teeth would still be in post.

So that's Ancellotti, Moyes and Rodgers all seeing their last games at Goodison. Hopefully Ancellotti will see it as the poisoned chalice it is, and swerve it.

Mike Powell
108 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:36:08
How did we not win that they parked the bus in the second half. Why does every ref give them horrible twats every decision?

They are a poor side and we still can’t beat them. I hate the derby.

Tom Bowers
109 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:36:23
Sadly so many officials fail to see what goes on in the box these days. It has become the norm to clutch, grab and push to seek an advantage and may times it’s defenders doing it. It is becoming the practice because the officials won’t call it and I blame the FA.

I cannot believe the officials when they claim they didn’t see it when there are 4 of them. Arsenal should have had a blatant one early on in their game when Gabriel was dragged down. It’s just getting ridiculous and making a total joke of the rules.

David Barks
110 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:39:57
Says it all really. Liverpool say enough is enough and sack their manager after an away draw. Meanwhile this site is flooded with people saying today was a good performance from Everton and not really that upset with the result.

One side accepts failure, the other doesn't. And we wonder why it's been 5 years since we beat them and 20 years since we won a trophy.

Dave White
111 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:41:08
Rogers! Crikey! Away draw? Imagine what they would've done to him if we'd won!!!
Patrick Murphy
112 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:41:55
There’s more rugby playing in the average PL game than on show at the Rugby World Cup. If you grab an opponent's shirt, you should be booked. If two players grab each other’s shirts, book both of them, none of this "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" nonsense.

Similar to most fans, I pay to watch a football match not a hybrid of Rugby and Footy.

Matthew Melia
113 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:42:17
Sorry, I was always a great fan of Ross, but he’s not progressed to the level he is capable of. Once again, he takes a position in the box and marks cobwebs. He continues to have to beat a player twice and showed glimpses of what he’s capable of.

Lukaku had his best game by far and showed what he is capable of. The young lads were superb. We have plenty of depth in Full Backs and Centre half’s.

Why do we always end up with the dross of referees? Lucas should have walked. They kicked us all over the park and we commit a couple of tackles and we suck the yellows immediately.

Hope I live long enough to beat them, but I hate derbies... don’t you?

Bring on United.


Micky Norman
114 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:42:23
13 minutes ago Brenda says RS were the best team.They are rebuilding. 10 minutes later he's sacked. Well he got one right!
Jamie Barlow
115 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:42:42
"I still don’t understand why we have a midfield player in a position where a centre half should be."

Especially when it’s Barkley.

I thought we played quite well today but feel a bit deflated as it could, and should have been a better afternoon. We were the better team but just lacking a bit of magic in the last third. Duelofeu didn’t really get into the game enough and him and Naismith didn’t provide much for the fantastic Lukaku. Maybe Kone could have come on earlier or even started after West Brom.

Galloway, Funes Mori, Barry (again), McCarthy and Browning all had great games but as someone above said, Jagielka was superb again, as he has been all season. This lad is showing that a captain doesn’t have to be seen shouting and screaming at his players. He has gone about playing with 3 new and inexperienced lads (4 if you count Stones) brilliantly.

A split decision for MotM for me between Jags and Barry but I’ll give it to Jags for the reasons above.

James Stewart
116 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:43:46
@107 It won’t be him; it will be Klopp, nailed on.
Peter Roberts
117 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:43:58
Graham Mockford. Feel free to paste all my comments just so you can see the general theme.

The theme you will see is this:-

He is lazy.
He is poor in the air
He lacks aggression
He is one footed
His performances are very patchy - either very good or very poor.
He has a poor touch.
His runs lack intelligence and he is often offside

Sooo, you think today he ticked all the attribute boxes??? We have nothing to worry about????

No, today was all about desire. He wanted it. You don't see that player every game, you see him one in five. When he controlled it it wasn't like glue, he used his strength to resist the opponent instead of standing flat footed. Determination.

Today he did all the dirty work well. It wasn't because we played his way, it was because he played with the right attitude. The only piece that surprised me was his leap he was getting up well.

Today was all about Roms desire. So less of this bollocks that it's always there, it clearly isn't. But long may this type of performance continue.

Raymond Fox
118 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:44:07
Rodgers just been sacked!
Dave White
119 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:45:28
It’s the proximity to the goal line Graham. Howard is 6’ 3" and has 2-3’ of arm length on his side too. For him to challenge for that ball he only needs to take one sidestep off his line. He then cleans out Ings, Barkley, the ball and, if we’re lucky, Emre Can too. That’s how I see it anyway!

ps: I know Can wasn’t in there, it’s just I think he’s a twit. : )

Raymond Fox
121 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:48:28
In defence of keepers nowadays, they are pretty much always purposely blocked by the oppositions players from coming out for the ball from corners.
Brent Stephens
122 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:49:47
Rogers gone! Hope we had a hand in that.
Jamie Crowley
123 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:50:06
Holy shit Rodgers was sacked??

We’ve ended a lot of careers at Goodison. Davey at Man Utd and Brenda in particular make me quite happy!

Feels like 3 points! And before anyone gets their shorts in a bind, I’m joking....

Chris Corn
124 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:52:06
I commented on the live forum that Ings's hand in Barkley back was no different from Browning on Milner over by the family enclosure, yet that warranted a free kick. Whether it was a foul or not is a moot point, but it’s all about consistency which is what that tit Atkinson lacked all afternoon.

I think that we played well today and I think there are harsh criticisms on here. The back four were great and as far as I’m concerned we don’t need anymore defenders. The two lads at full back are more than good enough and it’s not even their natural position. Garbutt is tied down.

The average age of the squad is coming right down and Martinez needs credit for that despite being allegedly shit in the transfer market. As Colin said, Funes Mori was great today. That Vickery clearly is as much an ’expert’ as those crying about the fee. Probably the same ones who always bleat on about ’net spend’.

Colin Glassar
125 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:52:24
Nooooooooooooooooooo, Brenda was doing such a good job. This is the end for the shite, they've lost their soul and have become just another corporate asset.
John Keating
126 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:52:40

At the time, I thought maybe Howard had been blocked so couldn’t get to the ball. Since seeing it on the telly, there is no doubt and for anybody to try and defend Howard is in my opinion not in the real world.

Every one has their own opinion I just happen to agree fully - not very often with the 3 Sky Sports pundits. If I were a betting man I would guess there are a lot more pundits reporters and supporters who would agree that goal was down to Howard. A floated cross right in the middle of the six-yard box with no obstruction has to be the goalie's ball.

Paul Kelly
127 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:52:45
Anyone who doesn’t blame Howard for the goal is, in my opinion, deluded. The ball ends up three to four yards off his line, nobody is near him, he has free reign of his area, and he stands there, watching, when keepers should be commanding that area.

Bad defending from our players too, but I’d expect any keeper playing behind me to grab that ball, bread and butter.

Sam Hoare
128 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:55:59
Shame about Rodgers...
Martin Mason
129 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:56:21

LFC are in terminal decline and every year they spend £100M on rubbish and sack a manager their decline accelerates. Everton are on the up and we have seen them pass us in the other direction. Only a lunatic would recommend LFC’s solutions for our club.

LFC are acting like like mediocrity is mandatory, EFC are acting like a club on the up and LFC’s board saw that today. They saw a club that has turned the corner with a squad based on fantastic value however it was sourced and with a fan base that is firmly behind the club apart from one or two bitters.

LFC may have a new ground and expensive players but their emperor is naked. We’re the power on Merseyside now.

David Pearl
130 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:56:51
Well you never know... there is a Dick that's after a job.
Oliver Molloy
131 Posted 04/10/2015 at 18:57:46
Martin @ 102,

I must be a bitter blue, because I want us to beat those "pretenders" from across the park every time we play them especially at our place, and especially when we are better team than them!

There are a lot on here saying stuff like "Disappointed; we should have won but good performance anyway, satisfactory result", a general sort of acceptance that we are inferior to them, same as the team that is on the field.
Any of our players who come on here will be happy then!

It’s the same every derby match and it makes me sick.

As for Howard, he is simply a clown of a keeper.

Tony Hill
132 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:00:18
Raymond (#121), fair point, but the player closest to Howard was Ings who just ran off him. As Dave White says, it’s about the keeper looking to dominate the 6-yard box, not hoping (almost every time in Howard’s case) that his defenders will do the job.
Colin Glassar
133 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:01:17
Ancellotti as well Jamie. We are fast becoming a graveyard for opposing managers.
Eugene Ruane
134 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:02:21
Got back from the game and into the alehouse bang on (just as Arsenal - Man Utd kicked off).

Left the pub 15 mins ago and was barely out the door before I was texted with ’Reds in here now dancing about, Rodgers gone’

I’m gutted, was hoping he’d last at least to Christmas.

Up the Toffees!

Graham Mockford
135 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:04:00

I just think you are wrong about the player. Quite clearly the post I quoted is there for the 'bollocks' it is.

I've always been the first to say the lad has lacked consistency. He had a very average season last year but he's bounced back strongly this year. He now has seven goals in nine games. I'll take that. Not sure where the one in five comes from because he has been Everton's best player in three games.

You think he has an attitude problem, I don't see it. But then again I've always had this strange thing about Everton players, they get my support and I've never been one for laying into our own, writing vitriolic posts about the players I pay my money to support. But it takes all sorts I guess.

Gary Mortimer
136 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:04:56
Graham @103.

Who cares how many defenders are in the box if the keeper always forgets that he is allowed to use his hands to catch or punch the ball?

From the top balcony it looked like someone had nailed his feet to the ground and everyone within earshot agreed he should have come and claimed it - it wasn't as if there was a crowd of players to come through.

Yes Ross could have done better, but that was a regulation catch for any top flight keeper all day long. The second time in a week he has been rooted to the line.

It's not about looking for someone to blame - it's about looking for areas where we can improve - if mistakes are made then acknowledge them and learn from them. Nothing more and nothing less.

Graham Mockford
137 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:07:37

So why didn't Ross make the regulation header?

Joe Foster
138 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:09:44
Fuck em. Without Suarez they where nothing. No Suarez no fucking chance. They will never admit it... NEVER admit it. Get used to it, you fucks; game over.
Gary Mortimer
139 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:10:09
Because as stated by others here - a slight nudge from behind. He’s not a centre half and perhaps shouldn’t have been marking Ings... It doesn’t exonerate Howard though in my eyes.
Christy Ring
140 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:14:15
I reckon Advocat left Sunderland to takeover at Anfield!!
Gavin Johnson
141 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:14:33
Graham #137. I don't think anyone would argue that Barkley could have done better. But the GK is the last line of defence. Howard should not be glued to his line from a cross three yards out. It's just asking for trouble!
Martin Mason
142 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:15:13
Oliver, you're looking at one emotionally charged game and football is a long term play where success runs in long cycles.

All Evertonians were disappointed not to win today, does it reflect on the positive changes that are happening at the club and the longer term prospects? Not a bit and all sensible fans will look further than one game.

How we played today cost LFCs manager his job, it got us a very good point with which most fans are very happy with, please don't become an irrational screamer, become an Evertonian.

Andy Crooks
143 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:15:20
I really wanted Rodgers to stay. Anyway, I thought we were nervous today and quite timid, we could have won. The referee was so bad I would almost question his integrity.

Martin # 129, no doubt we have impetus right now but they will spend on a new coach and try to buy their way back. However, I agree about what they have become as a club; even more deluded and appalling.

I think Martinez is doing much better this season but today he needed to be confident and bold.

Jim Bennings
145 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:17:49
Got a bad feeling they will go and get Klopp now though!

Typical of how we can't beat the Redshite once under Brendan"Voldemort"Rodgers though in his three years as manager.

Dave Ganley
147 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:20:47
To all who are looking to hang Howard from the nearest lamp post for their goal, maybe if we defended properly at set pieces then we wouldn’t have this issue. Ings, regardless of any push on Barkley was on his own in the box, nobody anywhere near him. How many times has this happened in the last 18 months?

Defensively we are rubbish at set pieces. Defenders don’t seem to be able to man mark players. The amount conceded in the last 18 months has been ridiculous. Whilst general defending has got a lot better this season, set pieces haven’t.

Stop looking for the proverbial scapegoat Howard for all the problems and start asking questions of the defence.

Oliver Molloy
149 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:21:31
Martin ,

So now I'm not an Evertonian because I want to win. How long is it Martin since we beat this crowd?
We should and could have beat them today, but we didn't - once again.
I am fully aware of the great stuff that is happening at Everton, even better would be a victory of our greatest rivals.
Yes I am emotional alright.

David Hallwood
150 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:21:52
yet another schoolboy howler from Howard; 1 or 2 a season, fine, but this 10-15 a season. he's a good shot stopper but his decisions from crosses is poor. Oh for Peter Cech.

One more point; one of the main reasons to have two holders in MF is to allow the FB's to attack, and when we have Coleman & Baines is (just about) makes sense. Obviously because of injury we're are without them and we cannot expect the 2 young lads to play like them, so why are we still playing with 2 holders as we are essentially 2 players down from an attacking point of view.

Barry & McCarthy offer nothing going forward and in the continuing absence of Coleman & Baines surely RM needs to slot Gibson in beside McCarthy or Barry, or even move Ross back there.

Joe Foster
151 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:23:17
Weird as I was with a lot of Brenda's ex school friends last week for a work project. And all where reds and all thought he should not be the manager. Unfortunately I will probably not see them again.
Nicholas Ryan
152 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:24:37
1. When the dust settles, we are in the top one-third of the toughest league in the world.

2. We are above, Spurs, Liverpool, Southampton and Swansea.

3. We have the same manager this evening, as we had this morning!

Nitesh Kanchan
153 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:25:31
Why is Martinez playing both Barry and Macca together against weak defensive sides? I was hoping Kone would start with Lukaku today just like Kouyate and Sakho , both being physically strong rather than foul-inducing Naismith and Lennon (Mirallas being suspended) and Del boy on the wings and Barkley and one of Barry or Macca. We could have blown them away with this team in a single half.

Lets see how Martinez lines us up against ManU and Arsenal. Mirallas and Delboy should absolutely start even if he does not play any one of Naisy or Kone. 4 pts is a must from those games if we are chasing 4th. Arsenal is too much dependent on Sanchez who single handedly carried them last season to 3rd and doing again this season , others can hit anywhere but on goal , so putting Macca or Barry or both on him solves half the problem.

Man Utd looks easy 3 points if we play like last season with them keeping possession and our high pressing and counter attacking.Lets hope for the best.
Tony Dove
155 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:26:31
Double whammy. We fail to beat a very average RS and their very average manager gets sacked. As a result, they certainly won't get any easier to beat. Special praise for Jags and Barry.
Victor Jones
156 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:26:52
Rodgers gone. Who cares? Maybe big Sam might get a shot. No guarantees that our nearest and dearest will get things right. And it also shows what can happen when a team lets their better players go. Everton and Martinez take note. I would rather have class in our ranks, than money in the bank.

And that cheeky bastard Rodgers also thought that his team was unlucky today. Deluded or what. Hope he paid the officials before he departed. They played a blinder for him today.

We now need to play smart. We need to be streetwise. Take all our players out of the upcoming internationals. Get everyone fit and firing for the Man Utd game. We are right in the mix, this season.

Maybe let McGeady play for the Republic of Ireland.

Dave White
157 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:32:04
It's the proximity to the goal line where the header is actually made. Howard is 6' 3" and has 2-3' of arm length on his side too. For him to challenge for that ball he only needs to take one sidestep off his line. He then cleans out Ings, Barkley and the ball.
Brin Williams
158 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:33:36
Can’t see this Fenway Consortium carrying on for long at this rate. All they’ve done is spend spend spend with sod all return on capital up to now.

The question is not how long they will give their managers to turn things around but how long are they giving themselves before dumping what can only be described as a bad investment.

Bill is probably thinking he is well off compared to that lot!

Dave White
159 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:34:18
Apologies, I know said that above, but having read the other comments I realised mine said it best! : )
Frank Thomas
162 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:40:01
Agree with Tony (155). How did not beat the current RS team with Ancellotti in charge the same LFC team will do wonders.

If Palace, West Ham or Leicester finish in the top five then there can be no excuses for us not being in the top 3. We have better players all round with Stones, Barkley and Lukaku in the team.

Anthony Lewis
163 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:40:09
Personally, I think a draw was a fair result. We probably shaded it, but we didn’t do enough to win imo. Which is disappointing considering how poor that RS team.

I think, they probably played as well as they’re going to play all season and we can play a lot better than we did. Naismith, McCarthy, Deulofeu and Howard all just a little bit off form for me. The defence were brilliant, hats off to the three guys playing in their first derby.

Barkley and Barry had decent games and Lukaku is starting to look like the player we want him to be.

Just depressing, as again we’ve failed to beat them.

Ian Jones
164 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:43:33
So...had a quick look through the comments. No-one has suggested Naismith's contribution with his defending at the corner leading to their goal.

He was behind Ings and then runs around Ings leaving him with a free header. Not sure what his plan was but not a cunning one.

Nitesh Kanchan
165 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:44:22
Liverpool want Klopp, Chelsea will join the race soon, it's going to be a real cock fight, that one...
Sean Kelly
166 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:44:48
A point is always welcome but FFS when exactly did this fear of finishing off teams come in. I reckon after Heysel. Yes it’s that far back. It would frustrate the cacks off a nun. I’m annoyed coz they really are shite and we should have had 3 points.

Oh btw it doesn’t interest me that the Shergar lookalike is gone.

Mike Green
167 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:44:49
Totally right David White #147 - awful goalkeeping at any level.

You too are also right Brin #148 - I think they must now be realising that they need to spend BIG (they thought they were but much BIGGER) to win this league / anything else significant for that matter and Danny Ings ain’t going to do it, goal or not today.

They also must be gutted in that they have probably now realised that they actually had the golden goose in their clutches - and they sold it to Barcelona.


Rick Tarleton
168 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:46:59
Ian, their goal is one person's fault. It's yet again Tim Howard, who hasn't a clue how to deal with crosses. Ings had a header less than two yards from the goalline. In my sixty years of watching Everton, Howard is the worst of all the keepers who've made fifty appearances for the club. Imagine West or Southall, allowing a diminutive player to have a free header from that distance.
Ian Jones
169 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:50:04
Hi Rick. I agree. Tim Howard should be coming out. No argument there. I thought I would just add Naismith's movement. Seemed odd at the time.
Joe Foster
170 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:54:00
Martin (#96) I usually think you are a sanctimonious SOB only talking about you own contrived beliefs. But today I agree with with you. The money they have spent (always ignored by the pundits) to what we have spent puts things to light. Maybe no money no problems.
Tony Hill
171 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:57:15
I do think we should be very satisfied with the state of our defence - the basis of all successful sides of course. It's crept up a bit, at least on me, when you think how threadbare we seemed last season. Above all after today, I am delighted with Funes Mori whose recruitment is looking like an excellent coup for Martinez and our scouts.

Also very pleased to see Holgate on the bench, he's another star in waiting. Get the foundations built properly and see what follows....

Tony Marsh
172 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:58:08
Absolutely gutted by the draw. It’s Moyes all over again. Martinez is scared stiff of red shirts now as well. One up front at home to a sieve of a defence. The worst Liverpool side I have ever known and we bottle it?

Howard was goosed 3 years ago yet is still first choice keeper? Naismith, hat-trick apart, is diabolical. I can't believe Davey Martinez changed the side that finished the game at West Brom on fire? Why fuck about with a winning formula?

Same old story. We have to go back to the Joe Royle days when we did know how to beat the shite. Too many managers and players seem to think they are playing the Liverpool team from the 1980s. Pathetic performance and shocking result. Every tin-pot Mickey Mouse side beats the Redshite these days. Why can't we?

Sam Hoare
173 Posted 04/10/2015 at 19:58:24
We are 7th now. If we are still in the top 7 in 2 games time I think that would be an excellent start to the season considering how hard our games have been.

We will have played 7 or 8 of the toughest games in the league in our first ten and in theory would be well placed to then go on a good run against the ’weaker teams’. In reality we will probably come up against lots of rejuvenated teams who have got new managers in such as Sunderland and Newcastle...

Still. If we can get 3 or 4 points out of Man Utd and Arsenal then I think that would make a very decent first quarter of the season.

Phil Walling
174 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:03:39
I hear whispers from fellow holiday home owners in Cyprus that Steve Morgan is planning another bid for our neighbours and has insisted on a 'clear out' before the deal is struck.

Apparently, his sale of Wolves is proceeding apace thus removing a barrier to his owning the 'Mighty Fallen'!

Victor Jones
175 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:03:40
Their goal today was Howard's fault. I would be the first to blame a defender, should a defender be at fault. I can of the top of my head recall about 10 mistakes made by Howard in recent seasons. And a lot more should I look through my programmes (refreshing my old memory). We can all recall mistakes from Howard. Some day one of his mistakes will really cost us. A cup defeat or a place in Europe. And yes he makes saves. But is he really the keeper to now marshal our growing number of classy defenders? And Robles is also not the answer. We need a class act. Their are a few promising GKs out there. Time we went and got one.
Kevin Jones
176 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:12:26
Quite enjoyed the game. We desperarely need a top quality keeper, Howard is shit end of. Comes out with his feet far to often. In the second half he palmed one straight into the middle of our area. I've got absolutely no confidence in him whatsoever, shit myself every time any team get near our goal.
Aidan Trimble
177 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:17:33
Fucking laughable some of the grief Howard gets on here. He’s pulled us out of the shite more times than I care to remember, and if people think he was at fault for the goal today then I give up.

Who allows Barkley to mark at a corner? How does a pro footballer misjudge the flight of a ball so badly?

Christy Ring
178 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:18:49
I see Bob praised Howard’s performance, no change there. I believe our defence are terrified at corners, because Howard inspires no confidence whatsoever. Today and at WBA, he was rooted to his line, for the Dawson and Ings goals, they were bread and butter saves for any keeper.

He will not come for crosses, and even in Monday’s game, he flapped at a corner in the last minute, and missed it.

Eddie Dunn
179 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:20:01
I have been a defender of Tim H recently, and he has performed well this season. However, the goal at West Brom and today’s from Ings was really his fault.

Ings is not a big man and Howard is 6 foot 2 or 3; one step out and he could at the very least have punched it away. He seems glued to his line, and is therefore totally reliant on centre-back cover winning the header.

A good display from the rest of the team though, with Deulofeu the only other one under-performing. When Lennon came on, we really started to dictate the game. Kone too, was causing them problems.

Lukaku was fabulous – can you please play with that much commitment every week Rom?

Dave Roberts
180 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:29:00
Brenda has been sacked.


Mike Keating
181 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:32:04
Disappointing result after dominating the second half and Mignolet kept them in it.

Anyway, that’s another manager we got rid of. Poor old Brenda. Who will they give another £100M to spend?

Bring it on.

David Barks
182 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:40:48
Martin telling us all that "most" Evertonians are happy with a point today. Sorry, since when does this guy get to say how most Evertonians feel?

We drew at home against a poor side that was in crisis, as was proven by them sacking the manager immediately afterward. That is not a good result, it's a poor one.

But we accept failure. We accepted a horrible season last year. Meanwhile that team in "terminal decline" is only one point below us and they actually qualified for Europe last season, not us.

This acceptance of failure is really pathetic.

William Cartwright
183 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:46:38
I posted on another thread earlier that if the ref plays well, we will play well... So what’s new? Ridiculous one-sided refereeing AGAIN for the bloody world to see and again nothing happens. When oh when are the football power brokers going to wake up and realize and do something?

Oops they are awake and very aware, so that’s that then. How Levia stayed on the pitch is beyond me.

Shame about Brenda going, looks like they will buy even more resources to advance even further upfield. Bloody hell though he has been an expensive stop gap. Anyway, yet more and more media attention to allow us to fly under the radar. COYB

Christy Ring
184 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:49:35
Would you believe Rodgers was sacked at home, before the Everton game.
Tony J Williams
185 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:54:02
Gutted. That is the worst redshite team I have seen at Goodison in decades.
John Malone
186 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:57:14
Had a flick through the above comments and can’t remember seeing anyone mention the fact that Martinez got his tactics all wrong.

We played a 4-4-2 against a 3-5-2 with Barkley up top and Naismith playing left wing. Then second half changed it to 4-3-3 and somehow expected better!

The recent upturn in fortunes is down to Barkley playing deeper and Jimmy Mac playing higher in 4-1-4-1 and we all know Naismith is useless on the wing it’s in behind or up top!

In another frustrating note Lukaku had one his best games in a blue shirt but he was isolated as the lone front man and was winning flick-ons to no-one!

I can see why Martinez didn't want to pass it from the back with Baines, Coleman and Stones out but to play two holding midfielders and play long ball to Lukaku all game was shocking!

Special note to Funes Mori who in my opinion had a blinder and looks a real prospect after two games!

Patrick Murphy
187 Posted 04/10/2015 at 20:57:21
It wasn’t the usual derby day surrender though was it David (#169)? Yes, we probably should have beaten them; and yes, it probably was 2 points dropped on the day, but that’s the way it goes on derby day sometimes. I swear you could get 11 of the most talentless Evertonians playing for the other lot and they’d conspire to take something out of the game.

As far as I’m concerned, it’s another game closer to Everton winning one of these affairs and it will taste all the sweeter when it eventually happens. In a strange way, not winning today may bring home to the team that they are far from the finished article and they still have much to prove. Aside from the money aspect, I know which club I’d rather be at at this moment in time and it doesn’t wear red.

Losing points to the other lot is always disappointing but it hardly ever serves as a barometer of the season, just like a cup-tie doesn’t act as an accurate method of defining a good or bad team. We have 30 more games to prove whether or not we have improved as a team and, despite the result, I would suggest that there are lot of good things to come from this team.

Look at some of those players who were unavailable for first-team duty today: Coleman, Stones, Mirallas, Baines, Pienaar and Garbutt; and then look at the young lads Galloway and Browning who will have gained valuable experience by playing in today’s game.

Things aren’t perfect at Goodison but there are some good reasons to be optimistic... unless of course the derby result is the be all and end all of things.

Jay Woods
188 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:06:28
Could we not just wear all yellow when playing them? To show our "true colours"? Or all white to represent the colour of the flag we wave before them?

Gutless, supine, namby pamby display for the first 20 minutes of the game, showing them absurd respect and looking like we didn't want it as much as they did, a fault we have seen year after year for the best part of a decade.

Later, when we did start to get it together, I thought this is it, we're going to end the winless run. But there were silly problems thwarting us at the most inopportune moments (apart from the criminal refereeing display). Most notably, Barkley's stupid decision-making, which unless he gets it coached out of him, will ensure he never realises his full potential. Or Deulofeu's Messi complex, in which he takes on a man too many. And don't get me started on Howard...

That all said, I think we would have won if 75% of our first choice defence wasn't missing.

Paul Tran
189 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:20:46
Regarding Howard's performance in the past week, whenever I think about Everton goalkeepers, I always ask myself, What would Nev have done?

I think Nev would have flown off his line and either caught the ball or took the opposition player out. Or both. And that’s what I think Howard should have done. They were so poor and our back six was so good, they could’ve played all day and not scored.

There was an excellent piece on Big Bob Latchford here recently. If Gordon Lee had bought a top-notch keeper, I’m sure we’d have won some silverware in that era. Instead we had Lawson and Wood. Forest got Shilton and won the league; that’s the difference a top keeper makes.

Just remember 1986 when we lost Nev in the run-in.Surely Martinez has got to see this at some point?

Ray Robinson
190 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:27:24
On the subject of Howard being rooted to his line, it would appear to be that he is afraid to get hurt - something that should never go through a goalkeeper's mind. Twice in the first half he tackled a Liverpool player with his feet when (admittedly viewed form the Park End - so I might be doing him a disservice) when it looked as though he should have gone in hands first.

A goalie who is not brave becomes a bit of a liability I'm afraid. Perhaps that's why he fails to come off his line - unless to make a catch unchallenged?

Trevor Peers
191 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:30:30
Have to agree with you Jay that was a pretty tame performance, we did improve as the game ambled along.

But overall we lacked that winning mentality needed to give them a good hiding and let's face it they were there for the taking. They were piss poor.

Very disappointing, Rom apart who took his goal well and generally looked up for the fight.

Jay Woods
193 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:39:16
@ Trevor Peers: As I said elsewhere before the game, the derby defeatist mentality comes from the fans and is transmitted to the players. Evertonians need to man up for this fixture first, and then the playing staff will follow.
Colin Glassar
194 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:47:06
Paul Tran, how dare you name Georgie Wood in the same breath as Lawson? Woody was one of the, if not THE, best Everton goalies I've ever seen!! He's right up there with West, Big Nev and Nigel. Shame on you Sir.
Steve Carse
195 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:47:55
Jay, how exactly is that defeatist mentality transmitted from the fans to the players?
Paul Tran
196 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:53:15
Colin, if you’re coming on here mentioning Wood in the same planet as Nev or Gordon West, you’ve been hitting the sauce all day. Go and have a lie down! Lawson was far worse, but Nev in that late '70s side would have seen us win stuff, I’m sure.
Colin Metcalfe
197 Posted 04/10/2015 at 21:59:58
Absolutely furious... I wanted to put my foot through the TV!

What gutless spineless performance! We didn’t really have a go at them today at all and when you consider they are one of the poorest Liverpool teams in recent memory!

We had a great chance to go 3rd on 15 pts and the players bottled it! Out of the run of games we have this month, the RS was the easiest! Now we have to get a win against Man Utd and somehow try to win at the Emirates to stay in the mix!

John Voigt
198 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:02:47
I’m a yank, but not a big Tim Howard fan. On the goal given up, to me, he was blameless.

Why Barkley is deep in the box is a mystery to me. He’s not a good defender. Barkley misjudged the flight of the ball and allowed a free header. He should be someplace else on the field when it comes to corners.

Lukaku looks like he’s worth £40+ million to me. His 1st touch is still at times a liability, but the rest of his game is top notch. He’s not selfish and tries to distribute the ball. If he’s got a good chance to shoot he does it quickly and has a knack for scoring goals from nothing. Today was an example.

I’m amazed at how many young Everton players were on the pitch. Nice to see the youngsters perform in a big game.

Taking a point is a decent result, not the one we wanted, but still isn’t a negative result.

Jay Woods
199 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:04:24
Steve Carse: Really? You don't know how this works? Have you ever attended a derby match at Goodison?
David Greenwood
200 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:10:27
That goal was completely down to Howard. It was three yards out in the middle of the six-yard box. A goalkeeper at any level takes out everybody in the way, including team mates, to get to that. You can say all you like about marking, players on the post, but that was 100% down to our goalkeeper not wanting to get hurt. Unforgiveable.
James Joseph
201 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:20:47
Paul Tran (196)

I'm with you on this - loved Big Georgie but he had too many off days to be classed with Nev or Westy. He was a vast improvement on Lawson and Dai but if we'd signed Shilton in that era, as we were supposed to be doing, then we would have won trophies in that era.

Gavin Johnson
202 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:32:43
Jay Woods (#193). You’re talking complete and utter shite if you’re suggesting Evertonians need to take their share of the blame for our results against the RS. If anything you’re absolving the players from their responsibility and making excuses for them.
Colin Glassar
203 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:36:37
Of course Shilton was a better goalie than Our Georgie but only just. I used to stand just behind George on Gwladys St and some of his saves were world class. We loved him.

He was unfortunate to play in a generation of fantastic goalies e.g. Jennings, Clemence, Shilton, Parkes, Zoff, Maier, Corrigan etc.... so he was a bit overshadowed by that lot who grabbed all the headlines. God, if we had Georgie today we'd be unbeatable.

Ray Roche
204 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:40:46
Colin, you've got to be havin' a laff. Woods was a decent goalie, but not on the same planet as Southall, Martyn, West or even Howard. Sorry Colin, but as far as Everton Greats go he's not in contention. A very average goalie.
Colin Glassar
205 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:46:23
He was better than all of them except Big Nev, Ray. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say and George was a beautiful thing to behold when he was on top of his game.
Ray Roche
206 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:48:56
But he wasn't on top of his game very often. Did you ever see West or Martyn?
Colin Glassar
207 Posted 04/10/2015 at 22:53:18
Saw both Ray. Westy was great but his nerves got the best of him on the big occasions e.g. 68 final. Martyn was great but over the hill by the time we got him. Both great goalies but I'm sticking with George. Anyone who knocks Joe Jordan on his arse, in full flight, gets my vote.
Ray Roche
208 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:00:55
We’ll have to disagree then, Colin, but I bet if you put it to the vote with people who had seen them all play you’d be in a minority. And Martyn was regarded by Moyes as his greatest signing; when you think of some of Moyes buys, that is praise indeed.

Anyway, I’ve got an early (ish) start tomorrow to play golf at the beautiful Llangollen course so I’ll bid you a good night.

Harold Matthews
209 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:01:41
Apart from Howard who is well below the required standard, the rest of the back seven played really well. So too the big fella up front.

Martinez set up not to lose and achieved it. Too scared to remove Naismith's defensive ability, he only gave Kone 12 minutes to try to make a difference. I'm afraid the Derby and the stats got to him. He says he always gioes for a win but this time he didn't.

I'd also like to ask him why our biggest player stays upfield for corners and freekicks around the box.

Ross is playing quite well but is very predictable. Needs to collect, move and shift the ball quicker. Much quicker. This slow motion stuff is not doing us any favours.

Trevor Peers
210 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:06:21
You're on a loser with Wood, Colin, I remember some shambolic performances when he played for Scotland... hopeless in fact.

International football is the true test of a great keeper, and Howard, who is past his best and will need replacing, had an outstanding World Cup a few years ago and easily makes the top three keepers at GP since the sixties.

Patrick Murphy
211 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:10:07
Woods was no better than Howard in fact I’d say that Howard is a better keeper than George. George was a great character but he had some terrible moments in games Newcastle 4-4 at Goodison springs to mind.

Martyn was a better keeper than both Howard and Woods, because he was good at giving instructions to his back-four and the back-four knew what he would and wouldn’t come for.

Howard has been a good goalkeeper and his longevity is testament to that but if we want to be up there with the big boys we need a more commanding keeper and to be honest there aren’t that many around.

Colin Glassar
212 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:17:30
Yes, the scots Trevor. They preferred Alan Rough (?) to Our George, what a bloody travesty!! George was heartbroken and told Jock Stein to stuff it and never played for them again.

George, IMO, was miles better than Tim Howard but maybe my teenage memories are a bit off key now and he wasn't as good as thousands of us thought he was at the time.

Christy Ring
213 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:18:51
Ray (#204),

How could you put Howard in the same league as Nev, West, and Martyn? I’d have Wood above Howard any day, but Big Nev was in a class all on his own.

Phil Sammon
214 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:35:32
’International football is the true test of a great keeper’

Is it?! I’d say it’s his performances week-in, week-out.

I understand that keepers make mistakes, but Howard has never been able to claim a cross and still, in the twilight of his career, refuses to address it.

Colin Glassar
215 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:39:10
I've just watched the game again and I'm even angrier now than I was this afternoon. Best forget this missed opportunity and move on. Bloody shambolic.
Christy Ring
216 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:48:04
Trevor (#210), Are you having a laugh?

"Howard in top three keepers at Goodison since the '60s"???

You should have gone to Specsavers.

Jim Knightley
217 Posted 04/10/2015 at 23:48:08
Domestic football, rather than international football, is the true test of goalkeepers this day. That statement may have been true at one point, but those days are long gone. Ospina’s heroics for Columbia mean nothing if he makes errors, or looks like making errors, everytime he plays for Arsenal.

That said, Ospina brings me to another point. Many on people wanted him as a replacement for Howard in the summer. I can see why, but it springs from exactly the kind of MOTD highlights viewing which would lead many non-Everton fans to praise the shot stopping displays of Howard. Ospina has made plenty of mistakes, but then he is not alone. Hart, who has been superb again over the past 14 months, was horrid for a year before that. Cech, whilst generally brilliant, had some off periods for Chelsea after his injury, and made two howlers against West Ham on the opening day. In fact, the vast majority of Premier League goalkeepers have a series of big mistakes behind them, just as Des Stegen has, Casillas, Valdes, Buffon and even the world’s best Neuer (although he has barely any, and the few are easily attributable to his incredibly aggressive style).

Howard is not a top goalkeeper, and like Barry and the lack of a creative spark, he is one of three obvious areas where we could improve the side. But he is not dreadful either, and some of the criticism goes too far, and comes from people who too easily forget. Howard has had magnificent games for us and some great seasons. He may not be a Petr Cech or Courtois, but he has been a solid Premier League goalkeeper who has made errors, but who has made fantastic saves too.

We were impotent today I thought. The performance highlighted the need for a creative midfield in our squad (one below the age of 33) when teams look to defend against us. Whilst we are far better than last season, I fear a repeat of some of the frustrations when poorer teams come to Goodison and sit. Cleverley coming back will help, but really we should be looking to bring someone in in January. I was hoping for Kagawa in the summer, probably unrealistically, but that boat has sailed for sure now.

Trevor Peers
218 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:03:45
Christy who is your top 3, and don't say Robles or you have serious mental issues.
Victor Jones
219 Posted 04/10/2015 at 00:09:58
Goalkeepers are scrutinized nowadays like never before. Their every mistake is highlighted. Would the keepers the '60s and '70s stood up to the same scrutiny?

For what its worth, I thought that Lawson was better than Woods. Was Lawson not a record transfer buy, at the time, for a goalkeeper? I actually though that he was OK... but I was only a teenager when I saw them play.

And IMO both were better than Howard. Rankin was also better than Howard. And nobody could touch the big three: Southall, Wood and Martyn. The rest were not great.

Trevor Peers
220 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:16:03

Of course Howard is not a top keeper now, Roberto should've replaced him in the summer but probably had other priorities.

The fact is we haven’t been blessed with many decent keepers since I first started watching in the sixties, and I’m afraid Howard has done a decent enough job to come 3rd.

Because the rest have all been way below average that’s a fact. Can anyone name another keeper who even comes close?

Gavin Johnson
221 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:16:50
Robles isn't the finished article, but he's relatively young in goalkeeping terms. He needs a run of games. If he did, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be letting in goals for fun from corners. Once he stopped trying punch every cross (1st season) he started to look like a GK who can command his area.

Christy Ring
222 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:18:41
Jim, some good points, but Howard is a shot stopper, will not come for crosses, one of the worst keepers in the Premier League.
Colin Glassar
223 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:28:47
Trevor, my top five would be: Nev, West, Wood, Martyn and probably Howard. Howard would only be in that group because the rest (Lawson, Davies, Wright, Gerrard etc.....) of our goalies have been so bad they shouldn't even be considered goalies.
Gavin Johnson
224 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:33:28
Trevor, have you forgotten about Martyn?! Surely he'd pip Howard to 3rd best GK, after Nev and West.
Victor Jones
225 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:35:36
Did we not sign Pat Jennings for a period. Now he was a goalkeeper. And yes, I know that he never played a game.
Andy Crooks
226 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:36:03
Jim, do you not think it is time for the club to take a chance and select a target for January that will give us that extra edge, that boost that can change everything. I agree about Cleverly, he will make a difference but only if it is instead of, not, as well as.
Trevor Peers
227 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:37:17
True Colin, we’ve suffered some awful keepers in the past, and apart from Wood ha I’d go along with your top 4, although West self-imploded just before he retired and completely lost his nerve. It’s a nightmare position to fill, and I wish Roberto all the best when the time comes.
Andy Crooks
228 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:41:54
Colin, how easily you dismiss Dai Davies and Andy Rankin. I think Moyes had a fine transfer record but the signing of Richard Wright was one of the worst in our history. He didn't look like a footballer, more like an actor pretending to be a goalkeeper and wanting to keep his kit clean.
Colin Glassar
229 Posted 05/10/2015 at 00:58:25
Funny thing was Andy, Wright was supposed to be the next Seaman when we got him from Arsenal but what a tragedy he turned out to be.
Harold Matthews
230 Posted 05/10/2015 at 02:01:24
I'm amazed how many people rave over Martyn. For me, he was another who leaked too many goals inside the six-yard area.

I’m beginning to wonder about our chief goalkeeping coach. Can’t he see what’s wrong?

Jay Woods
231 Posted 05/10/2015 at 02:02:04
Gavin Johnson... I noticed it myself at derbies and then media have said the same thing. A sense of unease from our fans in the ground, anxiety, nerves, falling to bits, perm any one... But because you don’t want to absolve the players from any blame, I’m talking "utter shite".

So what you’re saying then – if I’m talking "utter shite" – is that the mood of the crowd has, what, no effect on the players at all? Which would make home advantage as an abstract concept in football just some... urban myth?

The players are, of course, ultimately to blame – along with the coaching staff. But the fans must also bear their share of the burden for being such a bunch of yellow-streaked fainthearts in the build-up to, and during, the derbies, year-in and year-out.

Victor Jones
232 Posted 05/10/2015 at 02:29:20
Just another comment on goalkeepers. Moyes let John Ruddy go far too soon. He turned out to be quite useful.

Also on Howard having a good World Cup. Well goalkeepers can play blinders when their team are underdogs. Happens all the time in the FA Cup, a lower league keeper keeping the score down. Doesn’t mean we go and buy him.

My point is that when shots are raining in, Howard is not bad. The rest of his game is poor. Remember his rubbish against Wolves and Sunderland a few seasons ago. He never had proper competition.

Ernie Baywood
233 Posted 05/10/2015 at 03:15:34
Funny old game. Liverpool lost interest in competing and just waited for us to commit men forward so they could counter us. We didn’t give them that opportunity and consequently never really got at them. A very chesslike game.

I thought Howard had an off day. Maybe it’s the unsettling affect of the new defence but he was just a bit iffy and partly responsible (with Ross) for the goal.

Back 4 was great. Galloway in particular looks such a smart player to go with his physical attributes. Watching a young lad organise people around him was great. Jags was desperate at times but always gets there. Funes Mori scares me but didn’t put a foot wrong... likes a crazy dig from distance too and that will amuse us over the years!

Midfield 2 did a good job. Barry stood out playing spare but McCarthy did a job on Coutinho and was tireless. Easy to overlook.

Naismith, I thought played his role well. Good bit of needle and most weeks that’s a headed goal - exceptional save from their dodgy keeper.

Del was Del. We talked about it all week and then the live forum went apeshit as soon as he gave the ball away. We didn’t get the ball to him early enough or often enough. The goal was one such rare occasion and he produced a dangerous ball in. I don’t expect a pacy creative type to waste energy chasing a team that don’t want to attack and I wouldn’t have subbed him. We bought him precisely for these types of games.

Ross showed his class. We have to stop wanting him to be Gerrard. He can be far more than that. Put some good movement and numbers ahead of him and watch the diamond shine. Obviously could do with some discipline marking at corners.

Lukaku got the better of 3 Centre Backs. No idea how Sakho is a Premier League footballer but it was still a big effort from the big man.

So I don’t think anyone really did too badly. It’s just that we didn’t have people supporting the attack enough. JMac and Barry don’t offer that and we’ve got used to it coming from our full backs... which means them both being out is a loss even if the replacements are playing very well defensively.

Tactically I don’t think Roberto could have done too much more. It was all us and we just needed something to fall our way to blow their negative gameplan apart. If we had committed more men forward then we might have been looking at a defeat as that’s exactly what the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge were banking on.

Refereeing was terrible. Lucas has to go for his third cardable offence - so clear. Can should have at least been on his last warning - he knew exactly where Barry was. Fair play to Barry for putting his head in compared to Herrera who cowered for Benteke’s goal. The ref even let them take a rolling free kick from miles away from an incident - if Sturridge had scored from that then I don’t think you could have calmed Goodison down enough to restart the game.

And we don’t even get to keep Brenda in charge. A very odd derby day.

Jim Hardin
234 Posted 05/10/2015 at 03:26:24
Christy and others,

Howard is currently ranked second in the Barclays player rankings for goalkeepers behind only Peter Cech. I am tired of defending a keeper as good as Howard is and has been against simplistic or idiotic commentary. Back it up with facts, stats, etc and then make a valid point.

Howard was at fault for the goal only if you and others think a goalkeeper should come for a ball every time and that there is no other way of playing the spot. If you don’t then he is not. The defender lost his man. Simple enough.

The fact is Howard is having a season thus far that puts him among the top of the League’s goalkeepers. The keepers he is ahead of are many of the ones suggested as replacements by all of you experts.

Paul Ward
235 Posted 05/10/2015 at 03:47:21
There is no point in blaming a referee as incompetent as Atkinson for the loss of 2 points. He is just one of those PL refs who makes a lot of mistakes.

I agree with the many posters on this site that say we have quite a good squad of players. The problem is we have a manager who picks the wrong players in the wrong positions and is obsessed with making changes every game. His ploy yesterday was not to lose. Instead he should have attacked against such a demoralised team like Liverpool.

Apart from the goal, the defence played very well despite our goalkeeper. A reflection on Martinez to me has always been how he has insisted on Howard. I was very surprised he didn’t replace Howard when he first arrived. Instead he brings in Robles who is as bad.

Gavin Johnson
236 Posted 05/10/2015 at 04:17:33
Jim - We can back it up with facts. There were numerous stats that ranked Howard was the worst GK in the league last season. So it's not idiotic or simplistic to criticise.

If we're talking about this season, there has been an improvement but the seasons only just started and the regular errors are starting to creep in again. That's 2 goals he's been at fault at in 2 games. Barkley wasn't blameless either but the GK is the last line of defence. He should not be glued to his line when a cross comes in from 3 yards.

It's just putting extra pressure on the defenders. It's no wonder we're letting in goals for fun from corners.

Phil Sammon
237 Posted 05/10/2015 at 04:53:03

I value critical thinking over statistical analysis when it comes to judging a keeper. A stat may show you how many shots he’s saved, but will it tell you how difficult they were?

Howard has improved this season but he’s still the player I’d most like to see replaced. He’s quite rightly getting grief for last nights goal... as should Roberto and Barkley... but did anyone see his attempt to claim a cross against West Brom?! He jumped and didn’t get within six feet of the ball. Absolutely laughable for a top flight keeper.

Ernie Baywood
238 Posted 05/10/2015 at 05:20:01
I don't think anyone can deny that Tim can be slow to assess whether he should commit to coming for a high ball. He hesitates far too often. There was one in the second half that spooned up into the air and dropped just outside the 6 yard box. He still didn't come for it. It's a real weak point and isn't improving.

He's been good for us in other areas though and it still doesn't absolve the team from the responsibility of challenging the opposition.

Mark Andersson
239 Posted 05/10/2015 at 06:53:26
I have to agree with Jay; I've said it for years that the fans have a defeatist attitude when it comes to playing the Red Shite.

However, once we start beating them (and it will come), then we can have a wining mentality instead of the "poor us, it’s the cheating baised ref."

As Jay said, man up, go to the game knowing we will beat them instead of hoping or wishing.

With Brendan gone, most of you will be dreading who they bring in. I’m not a Martinez fan but can see that he is turning the corner; had he not bottled it, we would have easily beaten the Red Shite and sent Brendan on his way.

Colin Williams
240 Posted 05/10/2015 at 08:50:09
Jim#234... What are you taking? Howard is a joke! Trying to defend him with such comments of....stats, stats...joke.. Are you watching the game?... Like I’ve said many times, this guy can’t command his 18yd box...we are so vulnerable with him in goal. The thought of playing just in front of him would give me nightmares! His distribution is shit, kicking long and short is a joke, his distribution out of his arms is comical! As for commanding his box? Fucks sake... The guy plays like frightened child, who’s never been taught to come for a cross.

We won’t win feck all with this guy anywhere near the sticks! He’s been here 10 years?... Feels like 20. We’ve been nowhere near winning anything with him between the sticks... Jags is always shouting at the guy! Why? He’s so erratic!.. He’s like a young inexperienced g/ k who is unsure what to do.. Due to lack of experience, knowledge and ability!

I could go on, but there is no point! I’m just pissed off with the constant errors from the guy. Like all Blues I want us back where we belong( waiting long enough) the thing is... That will never happen with Howard in goals.
Graham Mockford
241 Posted 05/10/2015 at 09:00:32
Jay Woods

Where you at the game yesterday? Just interested to know if you are as much to blame as me when I was being a 'yellow streaked faint heart'?

Ray Roche
242 Posted 05/10/2015 at 09:15:16
Christy Ring #213

Christ, I'm not putting Howard in a category as good as Nev, West or Martyn, I'm putting him in a category of keepers who were better than Woods.

Paul Ward #235

Paul, Atkinson and every body else on the planet will sometimes make mistakes. Bit if I'd made as many mistakes as often as he did then I'd have been signing on on a regular basis. The man is not merely incompetent, he is dishonest. He failed in his duty to issue yellow cards for cynical fouls on at least three occasions , one of which would have resulted in the dismissal of Lucas. This is the man, remember who sent Rodwell off for a perfectly good tackle. If ever a man loved the limelight it's him. His ego is right up there with Clive Thomas's. Some referees are just poor and don't favour either side. Atkinson is not in that category.

John Keating
243 Posted 05/10/2015 at 09:32:35
Jim 234, let’s not get on to stats. Last season we had more possession and passes in many games and lost. Martinez could only talk about stats, fortunately he appears to be quieter on the subject this season.

Lets just look at facts. The fact is that Howard did not claim a lofted ball that came down in the centre of the six yard box. He was not impeded or blocked. Any goalkeeper at any level would have claimed that ball unfortunately Howard is a serial believer that he has to stay on his line for crosses.

It wasn’t the only time yesterday he failed to command his six yard box and yesterday wasn’t the only game. Let’s not make excuses about what Barkley should have done or not done the fact is it was a routine cross into an area my fucking dog could have caught the ball in
Paul Cherrington
244 Posted 05/10/2015 at 10:34:14
I still don’t know how to feel about that game really...

I am gutted we didn’t win as think we should have but then I can’t say anyone played badly (apart from Deulofeu) so it's hard to criticise. I'm gutted about Deulofeu too — I really thought he would terrorise them this game but it was not to be.

Karl Meighan
245 Posted 05/10/2015 at 10:35:11
We can sum Howard up like this IMO when a team has a corner they try to keep it out and away from the keeper only when they think there is a weakness will they play the ball across the six yard box. Opposing teams facing Everton play everything from corners across the six yard box unless its a training ground routine knowing there is little if any chance of Howard ever leaving his goal line.

What is difficult to understand is that if he comes for crosses or corners 90% of the time even if challenged and he spills the ball in most cases a free kick will be given in his favour, how he expects to save a header from 6 yards out is unbelievable.

Oliver Molloy
246 Posted 05/10/2015 at 10:41:56
Jim @ 234

Hi Jim , you can defend Howard all you want but he should have claimed the ball out of the air or punched it.

If you watch Howard he seems to have no trouble catching balls as long as it is either side of the goalposts.
With crosses and corners in and around the six yard box he just stands there.
This puts even more pressure on the defenders.
No I think it's a confidence issue with Howard on crosses.

Steve Carse
247 Posted 05/10/2015 at 11:57:04
Jay (1999), let me think...................probably watched nearly 100 derby games thanks, half at GP.

Explain to me more objectively, how did the tremendous support in the first half still end up with us going a goal down?

There is absolutely nothing negative about Everton's support in derby matches. You can only then be suggesting that there is something mystical at play here; some sort of magic medium where any negative, defeatist thoughts uttered in private somehow get transmitted to the players, and so any positivity from the training ground is overrode. Or are you possibly suggesting that negative fan forum musings likewise outweigh all that goes into the training ground.

What tripe.

Laurie Hartley
248 Posted 05/10/2015 at 12:21:28
Colin @ 207,

"Anyone who knocks Joe Jordan on his arse, in full flight, gets my vote.".

They were the days, when centre forwards entered the 6-yard box at their own risk.

Lots to be encouraged about from today’s game:

Two great young lads in Galloway and Browning coming into the first team squad;

Ferguson’s jumping training starting to bear fruit with Lukaku (who I thought had a great game);

Funes Mori looks like a good bit of business... he can head a ball and has that "if in danger or in doubt kick it out" mentality – I personally like that.

Barkley beginning to show a bit of niggle in his game – he needs to develop that.

I am disappointed we didn’t win but we will at Anfield.

Tony J Williams
249 Posted 05/10/2015 at 12:31:34
Here's a stat for you Jim.

One of the smallest players on the pitch, after pushing his marker in the back and was totally unmarked, scored a head within the 6 yard box.

Fair enough, but this happened right in front of the eyes of 6 foot 3 brick shithouse (pun intended) who was less than two meters away from said shortarse and allowed him to float away and put his head on the ball, which if he wanted Howard could take one step, jump and punch/catch.

He wasn't impeded, as it was Ings that was initially standing in front of him, so that obstacle had moved.

Tony J Williams
250 Posted 05/10/2015 at 12:33:21
Ernie, can I ask why Funes Mori scares you?

I have been impressed with him, apart from when he lost possession against the Baggies.

Dave Abrahams
251 Posted 05/10/2015 at 12:34:35
Jim (#234), no offence but if you came home early one day and found Tim in bed with your wife, you’d make excuses for him and blame your wife.

That’s after you’ve gone downstairs and made a cup of coffee for Tim!!!

Laurie Hartley
252 Posted 05/10/2015 at 12:42:02
A bit off topic but there have been a lot of goalkeepers mentioned on this thread but I would have this fella before any of them

Ernie Baywood
253 Posted 05/10/2015 at 14:09:33
Honestly Tony, I just get a sense that he’s about to something ridiculous (or maybe sublime). Might be a bit of South American stereotyping on my part but he does have a slightly loping style about him on the ball.

So far, since getting caught in possession against WBA he’s been pretty ’no nonsense’ when under pressure. I guess time will tell whether that’s his style or not – he’ll get more comfortable here.

I loved him taking on the shot in the second half. Think it was off one step from about 40 yards! I’m all for it – surprise us every now and then. Maybe we’ll see an absolute ’worldy’ (I believe that’s what the kids are calling them).

John Malone
254 Posted 05/10/2015 at 14:54:53
That Funes Mori has impressed me in the last two games he reminds me a bit of Marco Materazzi. A lot different to Stones but looks a lot better than what Tim Vickery on TalkSport had everyone expecting!

Ian Cowhig
255 Posted 05/10/2015 at 16:03:53
Some really good performances across the team. But just not quite enough to get us the goal which we deserved in that second half.

The last 10 minutes were a bit harem-scarem through midfield. And I thought the descendants of Beelzebub would again luckily nick one. Thankfully our defensive quartet stayed focused, and there was nothing to worry Tim in goal.

Funes Mori’s interception was outstanding. (What was the ref doing?) And he looked more assured as the minutes ticked by. Browning held his side really well. And our captain marshalled everything really well. Which just leaves Galloway. Who, in my view, was outstanding.

When Stones came in to the team, you could see he had ability. But through inexperience got a few things wrong here and there. I can’t remember Galloway putting a foot wrong in any of the games he has played. He is calm on the ball, judges well when to get forward. His tackling is fantastic.

There was one point yesterday, where I think it was Sturridge had a yard on him. But he got back took the ball away from Sturridge without making a desperate tackle. Then left Sturridge for dead before passing to a blue shirt. It was wonderful to behold. The lad looks the business.

Graham Mockford
256 Posted 05/10/2015 at 17:59:25
Ian Cowhig,

I totally agree with you on Galloway. Considering his lack of experience, he has coped admirably this season. I think many where surprised when he deputised for Leighton at the end of last season. Now it’s Luke who?

He has strength, speed and belief in his ability. I think he will eventually be an outstanding centre-half. It may never happen but imagine in two years a defensive pairing of him and John Stones. If it doesn’t happen in blue shirts I’d be willing to take a bet it happens in England ones.

Ian Cowhig
257 Posted 05/10/2015 at 18:16:21
Totally agree with you Graham. Everton could supply 3 parts or even all of the national team defense in the future, if these lads continue the way they are.

Everton is the priority. There is no doubt. But Having players in the national team shows how well we are doing. And attracts even more of these talented young players that don't get a sniff elsewhere.

Rob Brown
258 Posted 05/10/2015 at 19:19:39
I've only just been able to watch the match in full. But Ross has cost us 2 goals in two games at corners.
Rob Brown
259 Posted 05/10/2015 at 19:26:10
Further to my comment, it shows a lack of defensive awareness. Twice in a week, he has lost a man in the six-yard box. Who is coaching defensive set-pieces?
Thomas Surgenor
260 Posted 05/10/2015 at 19:57:38
Rob, as much as I agree with that comment – heading and defensive duties are not Ross’s strong points. I would also argue the case that it was more Howard’s fault than Ross.

I would be against fans getting on Ross back for these incidents. We all know he plays at his best when brimming with confidence.

To resolve the issue, I would bring Lukaku back for corners and allow Ross to lay on the edge of the box to pick up any clearances and drive us into a counter.

Let Deulofeu or Mirallas lay on the half-way line as a temporary striker.

Ian Cowhig
261 Posted 05/10/2015 at 19:59:16
Rob Brown,

Anything up to the width of the six-yard box, and between the two posts, is the keepers. It is really hard for an outfield player to defend in that area where you are almost right under the bar. You are actually better not trying to mark the striker, because you end up watching him rather than the flight of the ball, and so don’t get off the ground.

That is where the keeper comes in. If it goes higher than the defender on the near post then the keeper should be favourite with the extra advantage of using his fists. He also has the advantage of modern day protection from referees, and any touch from a striker is normally a foul.

Howard should fully commit and take the ball plus anyone who gets in his way.

Oliver Molloy
262 Posted 05/10/2015 at 20:00:19
Yep, I agree; Galloway does indeed look very promising.

I also noted the inclusion of Mason Holgate on the bench. Martinez obviously wants this kid to get a taste of the first team, and Holgate never took his eyes off our back four.

This kid is another Stones....

Thomas Surgenor
263 Posted 05/10/2015 at 20:00:42
Ian (#255).
I agree that Galloway is flourishing at full back. Maybe a little less pressure on a kid out the side? Hence why Martinez thinks it’s better to blood them there and then move them inside.

One question? Where does this leave Oviedo? Surely he is now surplus to requirements along with McGeady. (For different reasons...)

Eugene Ruane
266 Posted 05/10/2015 at 20:04:14
Rob Brown - 'But Ross has cost us 2 goals in two games at corners.'

If that's how you see it, that's how you see it - I see it very differently.

I see a keeper with Joe Bugneritis (Victor Anichibe has the same condition).

Basically the victim is a fucking big hefty grock, but thinks he's 5' 2" and 8 stone.

Or maybe you have another reason for why Howard stands on his line like a puddin' instead coming a yard off the line, raising his arms and leaping for the ball (y' know, like a...goalkeeper).

Look at the goals against Liverpool and West Brom again, look just how close the keeper is to the crossed ball and (nb: keeping in mind he can jump and use his hands) ask yourself, if I'm going to point the finger at one player, should it be Barkley or Howard?

Graham Mockford
267 Posted 05/10/2015 at 20:33:23

I would ask the question, if we have FIVE defenders in the six yard box how come no-one manages to make a challenge on the ONE striker they have?

I think it's too easy to say a keeper should be coming out from a corner. Unless it is a real floaty cross the decision to do so probably has to be pre-meditated which can create a whole host of other problems.

To be fair I've never played between the sticks, most I knew where a bit tapped, maybe I am being to lenient on him but I really can't remember the last time I saw a keeper attacking corners. I suspect modern keepers are playing the percentages.

Ian Cowhig
269 Posted 05/10/2015 at 21:02:57
Hello Graham.

I agree with Eugene on this one. In my view, it is the keeper’s responsibility. Ross got caught ball-watching, got a little nudge and didn’t get off the ground. But I still believe Howard should be coming for this.

Other than near post, far post and a defender covering past the near post to cover the near-post flick on, I wouldn’t have any more defenders inside the 6-yard box. Edge of it, yes; inside, no. Just other players to get in the way of a keeper coming out to claim the ball or punch it.

I agree that it appears to be a lost art. But probably why there are so many goals from corners and free kicks.

Brian Hennessy
270 Posted 05/10/2015 at 21:30:56
Fergie would never have sold Howard if he wasn’t so bad on crosses. He is a good shot-stopper but terrible on corners.

He was actually half-a-yard behind the line when the ball crossed the line yesterday, unbelievable.

Graham Mockford
271 Posted 05/10/2015 at 22:20:42
Brian Hennesey

When you talk shite, these days there is always the Internet to prove you wrong.

Tell me at which point Howard is half a yard behind his line.

Jamie Crowley
272 Posted 05/10/2015 at 22:36:01
I think Graham’s clip also puts to bed the, "Ross was pushed by Ingsiesta" line of bull.

That’s not a shove in the back at all. Ross just butchered his marking. A feather would have moved Ross further than that phantom hand in the back.

Barkley missed his marker. I do think Howard should have come off his line. Two players screwing up in my opinion.

Eugene Ruane
273 Posted 05/10/2015 at 23:12:42
Graham’s clip shows me that our keeper’s philosophy re crosses has and will continue to cost us goals.

Barkley should have cut out the cross?

Well okay, but it’s a cross aimed into the box - in just about every game, some/most of them will be cut out, but a percentage will always beat the defender.

The important thing is when then do, and they’re within’ easy grabbing/punching distance of the keeper, he should plough through the defender and the attacker and make that ball his.

If Howard was doing his job, the criticism of Barkley’s marking simply wouldn’t be happening.

Prediction - if Howard continues to choose the option ’rooted to the fucking spot’ (for crosses he could easily come for) I forecast a lot more criticism of the defensive capabilities of Barkley (or Naismith... Barry... whoever).

Seems very logical and simple to me but others obviously see the game differently.

Graham Mockford
274 Posted 05/10/2015 at 23:22:02

Maybe the prediction could also be, if our defenders fail to do their job at corners, there will be a lot more criticism of Howard.

You are right, we all see it differently, but my view on both this goal and the West Brom is if our defenders had done their job properly we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

One thing's for sure: we need to sort it out.

Dave Abrahams
275 Posted 06/10/2015 at 00:17:17
A good goalkeeper will always, and I mean always make the six-yard area his area and he will guard it for all his worth.

Howard has never been a good goalkeeper, at his best he is an average keeper. Anyone who defends his display at the two goals conceded against WBA and Liverpool is just taking the piss, or likes arguing for the sake of it.

Mike Gwyer
276 Posted 06/10/2015 at 00:45:46
Howard probably made a poor choice with his decision-making regarding their goal. However, Martin Atkinson totally ruined the game and made poor decisions all game long; how that fuckwit Lucas stayed on the pitch is a total mystery.

For me, the continuous theme of officiating fuck-ups that seem to occur with such regularity during derby day needs more investigation than what Tim Howard may or may not be doing.

If Atkinson had played the game to the rules, Everton would of won.

Rob Brown
277 Posted 06/10/2015 at 01:32:16
My comment was more about the lack of defensive coaching, rather than criticising Ross personally.
Laurie Hartley
278 Posted 06/10/2015 at 02:16:59
For the sake of anyone who is wandering what Eugene & Dave are on about I am going to repost my link of the only goalkeeper (as far as I know) who has won the Balon D’or – Lev Yashin.


Jay Harris
279 Posted 06/10/2015 at 05:01:27
Great link, Laurie; one of the greatest goalies of his time along with Gordon Banks, Big Nev, Pat Jennings, Casillas, Buffon, Peter Shilton, Neuer and De Gea (if he keeps it up) who have all stood out in my time.

Big Tim pales in comparison, unfortunately.

Ray Roche
280 Posted 06/10/2015 at 08:07:07
Jay, to be fair, 99% of top flight goalies would pale in comparison to that list.

I still think that we need a proper defensive coach and a goalkeeping coach. Martinez appears to think that defensive responsibilities lie with other clubs, not ours.

Howard has been a good keeper for us, not great, but on par with most other Premier League keepers; however, he is now slipping over the hill and a proper replacement should have been brought in a couple of seasons back in readiness to take over.

Colin Williams
281 Posted 06/10/2015 at 08:53:08
So much shit talk about our weak goalkeeper on here. Any goalkeepers worth their salt would claim that cross from a wide area that comes into the 6-yard box (stick to stick); this type of basic goalkeeper drill is constantly played on the training grounds for all age group goalkeepers!!!

I have never heard or been around anyone who would "not" put the blame on Howard’s shoulders for these type of of mistakes. Coaches would be disappointed if an academy goalkeeper, U12 upwards, made this type of error. Again, everyday this situation is acted out during training and 100% of the coaches would demand the goalkeeper to come and catch or punch the ball with distance and clear his 6-yard box of players, preferably up to the 18!

Stop trying to blame Ross! That useless twat should have gone through Ross and Ings and cleared his immediate area! People trying to blame anyone else for these type of errors from our goalkeeper is talking absolute bollocks! Try going on a basic goalkeeping course! And learn the game.

Please stop trying to stick up for a goalkeeper who has massive fundamental flaws in his game that other coaches exploit because they are so fecking obvious.

My disappointment is that Robbie keeps playing a guy that clearly has major flaws in the basics of his game.

Dave Abrahams
282 Posted 06/10/2015 at 09:31:53
Laurie (#278), I wasn’t fussy on Yashin’s distribution!!!!!
Paul Cherrington
283 Posted 06/10/2015 at 09:39:54
I think it's as others have already noted – yes, Ross did get caught out a bit (push or no push) but really Howard should have been there to claim anyway.

He should be anticipating things like that not expecting people to always clear the danger for him (especially when he could see it was Ross who isn’t our best defender).

Eugene Ruane
284 Posted 06/10/2015 at 10:17:41
I’ve said in the past that under the present (inept, bent, hopeless) regime, I have (realistically) lowered my expectations.

So regarding a keeper, I don’t expect Southall or Banks or Yashin.

But surely expecting a keeper capable of the following isn’t being too demanding.


John Keating
285 Posted 06/10/2015 at 10:20:20
So the goal was due to the defenders not doing their job properly? So if they do then during corners and free kicks Howard can swan off for a fag? In fact, if the defenders do their job properly throughout the game, Howard can just stay at home.

The floated corner into the middle of the six-yard box with no obstruction is the goalies ball all day long. Get down to any school or park any day of the week and you will see it.

Opposition teams have long sussed Howard out and play on it. Remember the RS a few years ago, Dirk Kuyt stood next to Howard at a corner, he got so involved he forgot the corner and they scored.

He is a serious liability in the 6-yard box from crosses, always has been.

David Hallwood
286 Posted 06/10/2015 at 10:40:49
Graham(#271) I/we all understand that defenders are assigned a man to mark at corners. BUT anyone that has played the game at any level (incidentally all the Sky pundits criticised Howard's schoolboy howler) knows that anything in the 6 yrd area is the goalies; which is why most teams crowd the GK so he can't come for it.

But for my money how many times must we see Howard screw up with a delivery from the flanks. He seems top have no spatial awareness where he is, routinely flaps at crosses and gets beaten by his near post; how many times last season? 6? 7? Yes he's a better than average shot stopper but our points tally would improve significantly with a better goalie-the most important position after the GF.

Colin Glassar
287 Posted 06/10/2015 at 10:42:20
Jay, you missed out Sepp Maier, Dino Zoff and that Paraguayan goalie (can’t remember his name) who was captain and penalty taker. He’s considered the best South American goalie of all time.

I’d put George Wood in that group but that might prove controversial as would Ray Clemence.

Ciaran Duff
288 Posted 06/10/2015 at 11:02:06
As a central defender, I always believe that you should be able to make it as difficult as possible for a forward, especially inside the 6-yard box. At that range, you basically just need to stay beside him and jump so that he doesn’t get a clean header. Barkley lost his man twice in the same situation (surely they would have reviewed that after the WBA game?).

Speaking to my GK mate, he is of the opinion that a GK should command his 6 yard box. Fair enough. So, probably both defender and GK are at fault.

Graham Mockford
289 Posted 06/10/2015 at 11:12:25
Eugene (#284)

Fair enough but I would question the keeper's starting position. If Tim did that he’d start in Row D of the Gwladys Street.

Graham Mockford
290 Posted 06/10/2015 at 11:34:07
David #286

Do any of the following count as any level?

NW Essex Saturday Div 1
Diadora League 1
Formers Sunday League ( that was fun!)

Or even playing centre half alongside Bryan Robson at Old Trafford?

Let me retract an earlier statement, I do understand the criticism but I still don’t see him being solely to blame. That goal would not have been scored in Serie A because a defender would have been all over Ings like a rash.

Paul Ward
291 Posted 06/10/2015 at 12:50:05
Why is everybody only now seeing the flaw Howard has, of staying on his line? It has always been there, Dirk Kuyt used to expose his weakness in every derby game.

After a lot of top keepers have been mentioned in replies, one who not only commanded his 6-yard box but the whole penalty area was Pat Jennings of Spurs.

Roger Sunde
292 Posted 06/10/2015 at 13:39:04
Barkley isn't doing good enough, he gets a little push but is still guilty of ball-watching. Like he did at WBA, he had Dawson and let him go. I'm not saying Howard shouldn't claim this one, but Barkley is a big physical lad and must do better on defending set pieces.
Chris OCallaghan
293 Posted 06/10/2015 at 14:02:03
I thought that Galloway and Browning did well. It’s good to know we have reserves and players in the making to fill Coleman's and Baines's boots. I would have liked to see Kone on sooner for Naisey; he would have brought a different dimension, especially linking up with Rom.

Oliver Molloy
294 Posted 06/10/2015 at 15:08:20
Howard should have come, shouting "MINE!!!" and cleared it up either by catching or punching the ball and at the same time letting wee Danny know he’s in for more of the same next time!

I find it hard to believe that there are still some trying to defend his actions. He cost us a goal and will do so again in the same scenario – wait and see.

Not a bad shot-stopper, but has always been very suspect with crosses into the danger area.

Jay Harris
295 Posted 06/10/2015 at 15:09:20

Big George could have made the tea for them and provided a few comedy moments but that would be about his contribution.

I always thought our most underrated goalie was Thomas Myhre.

The crazy thing about TH is he can catch crosses very well but when the opposition are around him he goes to pieces.

Where is the next De Gea/ Courtois?

Steve Jenkins
296 Posted 07/10/2015 at 07:02:07
Really disappointed overall, I thought the young and experienced back 3 did fantastic; that aside, we were poor.

I thought tactically we were set up poorly, gave Liverpool far too much time and space to play, and showed them way too much respect. First half, we were atrocious. Let them have the ball and dictate play, they were set up defensively to nullify us and stop us playing and Roberto did not have an answer until the second half.

They had far too much space and time all over the pitch and but closed and shut us down. They were dangerous first half and their goal was awful from our perspective.

Ross's marking was pathetic and Howard not coming for the cross, that’s bread and butter for a keeper but he bottles it or makes one of those mistakes more or less every derby.

We were lucky to go in 1-1 with a quality finish from Rom.

Add in the fact that our most creative player just had one of those days... he had an absolute mare; that didn’t help, but still he manged to create a goal.

Second half was much better but still nowhere near good enough.

This was an awful Liverpool side; we should have been at them, in their faces, pressuring them closing them down. Had we have done that, we would have won that game comfortably. Instead, most of players just seem to stroll around, leaving way too much space for Liverpool to play.

Overall, really disappointed with the effort shown and really disappointed with Roberto, the lacklustre performance and tactics. I’m beginning to wonder if he knows what it takes to win a derby.

Passion, Roberto.

An opportunity missed; I can only imagine what big Duncan sat on the sidelines must have thought of the nonchalant effort of the players.

Steve Jenkins
297 Posted 07/10/2015 at 07:11:26
Forgot to add Atkinson was awful and again gave us "jack" during the game, including bottling an obvious and blatant second yellow for Lucas. We always seem to have to have to play 12 men in the derby, which is far from conducive when trying to win them.

That said, his performance does not change the fact that we were poor, and could have won that game with more passion and better tactics.

Colin Glassar
298 Posted 07/10/2015 at 09:47:13
Deulofeu was the biggest disappointment. I’ve watched the game three times now and I can only count three successful passes made by him. It was his mistake which led to their goal. It’s next to nigh impossible to win a derby with only 10 men.

He never got into the game and by the time he came off you could see frustration in his face. Deulofeu is going to be a great player but, like young Ronaldo, he needs to cut down on the tricks and just get past his man and whip in those crosses for Big Rom.

Dave Abrahams
299 Posted 08/10/2015 at 11:37:36
It’s interesting reading about George Woods and Thomas Myhre, they both wore contact lenses... Maybe Howard should try wearing these, or is he already doing so? He plays like he is wearing blinkers!!!!
Colin Glassar
300 Posted 08/10/2015 at 11:51:34
George used contact lenses? I always considered him to be The Bionic Man.
Tony Marsh
301 Posted 08/10/2015 at 12:16:02
Still the same old Everton when it comes to the derby game. This rolling over and getting our belly tickled when we play the Red Shite has been going on since the 1970s. Apart from the Joe Royle days, we just freeze and shit our kecks when those twats turn up.

12 years of Moyes only helped to infuse the fear our players and club have whenever we play the dreaded Red Shirts.. Last Sunday was as bad as any loss because Liverpool are as bad as I have ever known...

We aren't playing the LFC from the 1980s any more; we are facing a mediocre bunch of crabs yet we still fuck it up. I can't see it changing either because Martinez is now fully up to speed on how to be a bottler in the derby. Still gutted and fuming as the result cost me a fortune as well...

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