Blues unable to break down the Reds

We can win this in the second half, when a few of our players wake up. And maybe Kone and Gibson come on. Martinez needs to earn his corn today.COYBs

Let's see what Lennon can do, I would have gone for Kone personally as he's wanting it this season.

Howard was a disgrace for their goal; why he can't come and punch the ball in his 6-yard box, I will never know.

I think that Barry and Co were hoping for Stones and Coleman to be fit and when they weren't it hit their confidence at really taking the game to them.

Rambo/Jags did well but Browning reminded me of Hibbert, good defender but terrified to play forward. Our momentum continues but another missed opportunity. IMO

Terrible decision to not send Lucas off but no surprise there, and the mental block goes on.

#2 - Lucas (ed: already on a yellow) intentionally trips McCarthy from behind (ed: in a very advanced attacking position / break) and somehow escapes a second booking. That's pathetic refereeing from Martin Atkinson

That's the Guardian's descriptions, not mine (my parentheses)

For me that was another match that can just be summed up very simply as "not good enough". A draw at home is a poor result. A draw against a club with no confidence and cries for their manager to be sacked is a very poor result.

Yet they can win next week and if we draw or lose they'll be above us in the table. Can't use Europe as an excuse this season, we're not in and they are. Very poor result.

Martinez needs to change this bad habit with his tactics. He kept on shouting Gerry to track Moreno in first half; wrong advice.

I'm happy we didn't lose but disappointed we didn't impose ourselves more on the game. That Redshite team were very beatable and we should've shown our superiority because we are much better than them.

Lukaku showed great strength holding up the ball, but needed more support. I thought the back 4 were excellent. Galloway was great, Jags made some crucial tackles, and Funes Mori stood up to the occasion well.

Howard was at fault for their goal. Stood on his line like a statue rather than coming out and claiming the cross.

Not really disappointed, but a win would've been great. All things considered, I'm happy with the commitment shown by both the old guard and young lads in the team. The memories of last season are quickly fading.

I was screaming for Gibson to come on for last 15 or even 10. He could have been the difference.

To those crying out for wingers. Do they always do the business for Everton? I wonder. Pointless trying to out guess Martinez. I would have played Kone ahead of Naismith all day long. And Deulofeu still had a lot to learn. Our stand in defenders are great. No worries there. But we really do need to go get a new GK. Howard and Robles are not the answers.

Honours even. But we should have won. Still we have come on a lot since I sat through Rush scoring 4 against us. I would have bitten my arm off to get a draw back then. But these are different times. And today TBH I am disappointed with the draw. Not with our start to the season, just the draw today.

Let's beat Man Utd in a few weeks time.

I don't blame Bobby at all for this. I'd have started Naisy and left him in as long as possible. He's the perfect gnat for the derby.

Subbing Lennon and Kone I think was good timing, giving Del and Naisy plenty of time to produce, changing the game when they tired.

Just didn't come off.

I'm not upset about this game, approach, or effort at all. Funes Mori was immense. Jags great. Lukaku a beast.

Wanted 3 points and on another day we take 3 points. I don't see all the negatives some do.

There were some very good points about the performance mind. The back four were outstanding (their goal not withstanding) and those two young full backs deserve real praise.

Disappointed in/for Gerry (despite the pass for the goal) who appears to sulk a little when things don't go right. If he matures a bit and realizes hard graft will help better than sulking he'll improve greatly.

The ref may as well have worn a Redshite shirt as he gave them most of everything. I just wish the will to win a derby outdid the fear of losing one for once, because I think winning that was well within us.

The back four were tremendous with Funes Mori and Browning not overawed at all. Jags and Galloway excellent as usual. Galloway looks like he's been there as long as Jags.

You don't see the negatives in failing to beat a very poor team, at home, and not being able to beat that team for 5 years? Happy with a draw at home to a poor side. Good for you, bad for Everton.

Close, close, close... but close doesn't win you anything .

We should have put their back line under constant pressure but we didn't and I think that is why we didn't win.

They are not are very good side but as usual our mental block regarding derby games stopped us from taking them apart. I'm glad that game is out of the way now we can beat the Mancs next match.

We definitely went out to win in the second half, but lacked composure around their last third. They on the other hand fouled their way to a draw with the help of a terrible ref.

Big ups for me were Rom and Jags as Jamie@16 said, but hats off to Gareth Barry who was great today.

That's silly. Of course there's a negative in not taking 3 points at home.

Not upset about the game (way we played), the approach (tactics and lineup were fine with me), or effort (we tired but I thought we played hard).

Of course I wanted to win. Word twisting, or maybe a poor command of explaining myself fully... I wanted us to batter them and I think we outplayed them and I'm crushed those 2 "goals" didn't go in due to some incredible keeping by Mignolet.

Never once said I was happy.

To prove my point, I bet we beat Man Utd and Arsenal as we play with a certain freedom against those types of teams.

Disappointed not to win it, McCarthy and Barry bossed midfield, Lukaku tried hard, got little help from Naismith who should have scored, but after Howard's howler and with Stones and Coleman missing, a point against 12 redshites is the least we deserved.

I suppose it will be easier to judge after the first 19 games or so. With a bit of luck we we will be well ahead of them going into next derby.

A free header from 2 yards is a fucking disgrace.

They'll get what's coming to them in the the end, but like everyone it gnaws at me that they got away with a draw again. I thought RM went for the win but the players didn't do it for him.

The call for Deulofeu back-fired. He never got into the game.

We have about seven players who should never be left out. Then we have difficult decisions. Kone or Naismith? Deulofeu or Lennon? Or again Naismith? Mirallas ? Gibson? Cleverley? Besic?

Who plays at LB when Baines is fit? Martinez needs to sort out who his best 11 are, and play them (barring injuries) every week. Me thinks he tinkers too much.

And once again... we need a new top class GK. And I have been saying that for a few seasons now.

Howard had little to do, but had to come and get that ball for the goal. Every goalkeeper stops shots, but the good goalkeepers are the solid one who consistently get the basics right. He doesn't and needs replacing in January.

We tried hard, we tried to win the game, but the keeper cost us a soft goal and we simply weren't good enough in the final third.

Ross has a lot to learn, I think. He strolls round at times when he is not on the ball, and heought to be snapping at the opposition to get the ball back and I hope he learns to look around and spread the ball quicker.

The two young lads played really well and showed a great deal of maturity, and Barry had a good game as well.

My top Marks were for Ramiro. He never looked out of place, mixed hard, no nonsense defending with some superb covering and brought the ball out of defence well. For his second full match in a new team; and it being a derby, he was superb.

Their goalie did his job well and pulled off two top class saves off our lads.

Considering what they've paid out for their squad in comparison to ours, we had as good if not the better of the match.

They'll pretend it was a valiant point won, when they would be expected to be winning this game.

So not bad at all.

Can I just say, and this might be a surprise to some, Mr Atkinson was Absolutely Appalling... and that was in his better moments.

By the end I was sorry we had not got all the points but it was a fine performance against another mega rich side. If we had managed to sign a proper playmaker (Silva) we would be championship contenders. We have two more games against the top sides in Man Utd and Arsenal. After ten games I will be delighted if we do not lose either of those two.I reckon we can beat Utd at Goodison and a point at Arsenal would be brilliant. Five points or even more would be a top return.

But we played ourselves into it and looked much stronger defensively second half, especially with Barry patrolling in front. Going forward we just don't have enough guile or creativity – what's new? But Lukaku certainly gave everything and had a good game until he tired.

We are shy of two players to make a Champions League team, we need a natural goal scorer and a central midfielder like Alonso of years ago who can go box to box, breaking up opposition attacks and who can create chances with defence-splitting balls to the attackers in our team.

Very average result today, it could've been so much better with a bit of belief.

The RS have hard games to come. Our fixtures should in about a month, become easier (on paper anyway). And I honestly feel that we will get better. There is something in the air.

I never have Everton beat until the fat lady sings. Or is that the "old lady"?

We should have won, but I'll take the positives from Rom's clinical finish and the defensive display - Funes Mori handled the derby well.

I was praising Tim Howard the other night (which is a first for me) but he shouldn't be rooted to his line when a balls coming in from 3 yards out. It was bad goalkeeping.

You can can bet your life it won't be like that in the next game if the scoreline is the same so why is it different against them? Martinez has never won a derby and he never will if he settles for safety-first scaredy-cat tactics.

The coaches have to sort this – out defensive corners are an adventure. Two goals in a week conceded isn't good enough.

Big Rom was up for it today – bummer, two points dropped.

Howard is the worst keeper in this league, by a mile. He's so bad, that not only does he continually cost us points, but he affects the psyche of the rest of the team. Martinez needs to be ruthless because Howard is really holding us back. Any other keeper in the league and we win that match.

Barry was excellent and Funes Mori is a major plus for us. I also thought Browning played very well today.

No panic as far as I'm concerned. I am still very happy with our start but today does show again that we need someone with real pace and incisiveness up front to support Lukaku. Nessie isn't that man and should have come off for Kone 10 minutes sooner.

A crafty midfielder would be nice too, but that's an old story.

I'm not saying that Lennon is the answer but I have more confidence when he has the ball that we'll keep possession.

Funes Mori, Galloway; Barry, Lukaku were superb!! Ross, Jags, Browning, Macca done well. Naismith runs around moaning and does feck-all but miss most of his chances.

Biggest disappointment has normal is our goalkeeper... He is a fecking disgrace! Unlucky blues!

The referee was poor I agree, but to blame him for our own mistakes in not making enough chances is putting the blinkers on. Also, to blame Howard for their goal is churlish too. There was absolutely no-one marking Ings, in the 6 yard area and free as a bird to head in as easily as you like.

On the plus side, I thought Lukaku was immense and Barry had a good game too. McCarthy broke up everything that the RS tried and apart from the goal, the back 4 played well too.

The problem was the upper midfield. Barkley had a bit of a stinker today as did Deulofeu. Why Gibson didn't come on is anybody's guess as it was crying out for someone to thread a pass through a packed defence. Martinez took the plaudits on Monday night for his subs and rightly so as it changed the game for the better, today he misjudged it and didn't make the necessary changes that the game was crying out for.

As I said at the top of the post, definitely a missed opportunity and all the excuses under the sun aren't going to change that.

When are we going to cut the chord on the dead weight clown in goal? Serious question. End of this season? Is he the starting keeper going into next season? No way we're winning a trophy if so, no way. Again, sad as we've got the makings of a decent side. Barry, Barkley, Lukaku, Galloway and Funes Mori good today.

Atkinson – the Lucas stuff is obvious incompetence or cheating; it was the late Coutinho free-kick he allowed to be taken 10 yards further forward and which nearly put Sturridge in, that's when I flipped.

What a cowardly, biased and vile low life Atkinson is. I bet that, when he retires, he does a "Midgley" and admits to having been a Reds supporter all his life.

I think Ross is as much to blame as Howard for Ings' free header, and the same goes for WBA actually. Deulofeu didn't affect the game enough. I wonder if Lennon should have started, then Gerard could have come on later in the game when we had good chances for breakaways.

The positives are that Rom was excellent, Jags at his best again, and Funes Mori put in a great display.

I thought Browning and Funes Mori were outstanding today. The only person who let the side down was the referee with some appalling decisions.

Blatant wrestle to the ground from Skrtel on Jags. Ings pushed Barkley in the back for their goal although Ross has to do better from corners.

Lucas should have had a second yellow and he makes us take a free kick again for a suggested moving ball but allows them to get away with a rolling ball and a wrong position for one of theirs.

The FA need to look into this. There is far too much bias for it to be errors from referees.
Rant over. Good game we should have won but our time will come.

Because Deulofeu was dreadful, giving the ball away every time he got it.

It's jogged my memory when someone mentioned it was him missing the FA Cup Final in '09 that really hurt us! Nearly 6 years on and he's still doing a good job especially recently when he helped out 3 new players in the defence!

He's the type of player I think we will realise how good he was/is only when he's gone! Well done, Jags!

Awful performance from the ref. Failed to control the game early on and adopted a bizarre 'yellow for all' approach to any kind of scrap. How Lukaku got a booking for being shoved was a joke. The Lucas one showed his true cowardice though.

Defensively good apart from Howard who had a poor game. Quite lucky he didn't give a pen away early on and their goal was classic Howard.

At the other end only Lukaku and Barkley carried a threat. We didn't create much for the big man who had the beating of their centre backs all game. Distinct lack of quality from both flanks until Kone and Lennon were introduced. Naismith isn't a starter for me.

Just got back from the game and I agree with everything you posted.

I would add to your list both Galloway and Barry who was the best midfield player on the park.

It feels a little frustrating because I think with a) a little more ambition and b) a little more luck, there were three points for the taking.

Aside from two great saves from Mignolet, we would have scored 2 in the first half. On reflection we were probably the better team but it was an entertaining, hard fought game. Lukaku was excellent today, but sadly Naismith and Deulofeu were both a bit of a let-down.

Good defensively, apart from their goal but it was a sneaky little push in the back on Barkley by Ings that made all the difference so you can't really blame anyone (I know some people are laying into Howard for not coming out).

We're 3 points off second place which I think is the most important thing to keep in mind after today.

Like a number of posters, I think Tim should have commanded the 6-yard area and prevented the goal. Rom was at times outstanding, just tiring at the end. Ross had another good performance as did Macca and Barry. We have to break the hoodoo soon and also have a decent ref!

Martinez wasn't adventurous enough, we were the home team and Liverpool are a very poor team at the moment, that's four games at home and seven points dropped already, not good enough in my opinion.

I couldn't write anything about Howard without getting barred off here.

It was as never Howard's ball to come and claim, Barkley misjudged his jump and got under the ball. He probably shouldn't be defending set pieces and would probably be better outside the box for the counter-attack.

I just re-watched the goal, the ball is whipped in hard. We have five defenders in the six-yard box, they have one player. It's pretty simple Barkley lost his man (for the second time in a week) misjudged the flight of the ball, got underneath it and left a free header for Ings.

You have to wonder why one of our centre halves is not marking Ings or is taking a central position on the edge of the six yard box.

Either way Barkley is not the man to be in that position.

Did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them.

Never before have I seen the same player who can look so bad but also look immense.

Every excuse under the sun gets thrown his way. He scores goals, he's 22, broken toe, isolated, style of play... Blah blah blah. Well guess what, today he was 22, at times very isolated, style of play wasn't his preference but he was the best player on the pitch... IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS UP FOR IT.

The lad should not be getting excused for performances that we have been seeing. Graham Souness nailed it before kick off: "You can't pick and choose when you fancy it" mdash; you need to do it every game.

Today he was up for it, and when he is, he's a handful. No more excuses, the lad can do it. It's up to him.

Unlucky not to get 3 points, that shithouse ref should never run another of our games.

Their goal is actually a smart piece of play by Ings, and not anyone's fault.

We on here seem obsessed with making someone culpable for every goal we concede, when the truth of the matter is that it isn't always anyone's fault at all.

There is another team out there and they sometimes (always) affect things.

Of course, defenders have a duty too but the best keepers take the initiative.

That may be the case but when marking a player you get touch tight and don't get yourself in a position where you can be done in such a way.

I still don't understand why we have a midfield player in a position where a centre half should be.

If you concede two very similar goals in a week, it's something that needs sorting out.

Howard is great with his feet and a fine shot-stopper but that is simply not enough. I know this, I'm a goalkeeper myself, I'm shite on crosses, which is why I never made it out of the Cardiff & District League! What I don't understand is in the second half he took two high balls with no trouble at all? It seems like his trouble comes with corners and crosses from the goaline... he just appears to poop (encore Francais) himself!

I'll put this out there... if we had Robles in goal today, he would not have conceded that goal.

I'll be the first to admit Robles looked like another Massimo Taibi when he joined, but, in that run of 6 or so games he had last season when Howard was injured, he grew into a commanding and confident keeper.

I was massively piddled (!) off when Howard went straight back in the side as soon as he was fit. It sent out a terrible message to Robles and it was really poor management.

Keepers are all about confidence and consistency. We'll always make mistakes but the best ones inspire their teammates with their confidence, and dealing with crosses is perhaps the best way to inspire your back 4 with confidence. Robles took his chance in the team and conceded (I believe) 1 goal in 5 games. He earned the right to have a run in the team. For me Martinez got that call totally wrong.

A draw was the right result today over the 90, but for me, my enduring memories of that game will be a world class save from Mignolet and a howler from Howard.

He has been played alongside so many green centre backs and gave them confidence due to his unflappable playing style. This guy never gets booked and never gives away free kicks in dangerous areas. I actually rate him as good as any centre back we have had in my experience which dates back to 1948. It is no coincidence that Stones and the two full backs have blossomed playing alongside him and I am sure that Mori will also appreciate playing with him.His blocking is all about experience and positional sense and long may him stay fit long enough to enjoy a couple more seasons at the helm. Watching Terry and Cahill of late Jags is head and shoulders better than both of them.

We just need a real playmaker who can find that killer pass to turn us into a competitive title challenging side.

Did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them.

Never before have I seen the same player who can look so bad but also look immense.

Every excuse under the sun gets thrown his way. He scores goals, he's 22, broken toe, isolated, style of play... Blah blah blah. Well guess what, today he was 22, at times very isolated, style of play wasn't his preference but he was the best player on the pitch... IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS UP FOR IT.

The lad should not be getting excused for performances that we have been seeing. Graham Souness nailed it before kick off "you can't pick and choose when you fancy it" - you need to do it every game.

Today he was up for it and when he is - he's a handful. No more excuses, the lad can do it. It's up to him.

Unlucky not to get 3 points, that shit house ref should never run another of our games. Made up for Mori, the Google scouts look a bit silly with their daft early knee jerk reactions.

"did he make me eat my words? No, he justified them"

Let me just remind you what you said about him after the Swansea game.

"His ability as a footballer is very poor. I don't think I've seen a player with such a poor touch, he can't jump, his runs lack intelligence for this level, and his right foot has absolutely no sense of direction – it's his swinger."

Yes you are so justified.

But that's enough about them; so what about us?

The spine of the team in outfield positions was very good: Jagielka, Funes Mori, Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku were stars. Galloway is definitely one for the future; Browning got better as the game went on. Naismith was a bit off the pace bug he was targeted for some ale house challenges; Barkley did some nice things but tended to go for the wrong pass plus he is not good at defending corners as others have commented. Howard was okay but, again as others have said, makes me cringe at corners. Deulofeu was off the pace today but was well marked.

We had some good spells but seemed to lack the belief that we could win. There were a good number of times when we did up the game but it wasn't sustained enough.

Overall, frustrating when the game was there for the taking. We need to believe we can do it as we have shown already this season; let's show Man Utd that last season's result can be repeated.

COYB

We still seem to be lacking that little bit of quality in the attacking midfield area, still don't see Barkley as the real answer to being that creative number 10 and nobody will convince me otherwise.

Don't get me wrong he's a good player Barkley but not what some games are crying out for. The man we really missed out on and could have been the new Arteta, was a snip at 㾶 million: Yohan Cabaye.

I also became frustrated in the second half as Lukaku became more and more isolated with very few players in blue willing to get close to him in the box.

All-in-all, a decent result, not great given how ordinary this Redshite team is and disappointed yet another derby has gone without a win.

We look a steady team. I think a few got a bit carried away after some good results and started talking of top 4 finishes... Not for me, at least not yet; let's see what we do in January. We still need at least one more attacking central midfielder and arguably a better goalkeeper than Tim "I never get a cut head because I go for everything with my legs" Howard.

He gave Lukaku at least one free when he was grappling with Skrtel when it was 50/50.

Blue glasses again lads. I thought he was poor enough but not in favour of either team. Oh, he let them take a free from the wrong place too which could have been a disaster.

Lukaku very good, Howard very poor, Deulofeu poor but he probably wasn't used to the pace of it. McCarthy was good at what he does but I feel he leaves us a man short in midfield when we have it as he just adds nothing when we're in possession.

I agree with you about the push but Ross is a big lad and needs to learn from that as does Howard in organizing the defense from corners.

Overall a moral victory but that doesn't get you 3 points.

Outstanding performances from Lukaku and Jags.

Very good performances from everyone else except Geri who couldn't get into the game.

Surprised no one has mentioned the Wrestling of Jags to the ground by Skrtl - a blatant penalty.

I watched the goal at the time and was bewildered why Howard never claimed the ball. I have watched it half a dozen times now on the telly. How you can say the ball was whipped in hard is in my opinion unbelievable.
It was a fucking lob and Howard had loads of time to see it and its trajectory. It was criminal that clown didn't step out a couple of yards and claim it.

When I think of corners being whipped in, I think of Andy Hinchcliffe, certainly not that cross today. Whether Barkley lost his man or was pushed or fell over his arse is totally immaterial; any goalkeeper not claiming a high cross landing 3 yards off his goal line with nobody interfering with his position needs fucking.

I really wasn't planning to but thanks for including "o gosh" in a post, I think it is an interjection that has unfairly gone out of fashion and I for one would like to hear it more.

The regret was that we could have 'gone for it' a lot more. I felt we were a little bit too scared to lose but, as we all know, you get more for a win followed by a loss than for two draws which might well be the result if we are similarly nervous of committing men forward against Man Utd.

Good to see Lukaku back on it though Ross looked a little leggy to me in the second half. Back 4 were pretty excellent throughout, I thought, with special mention to Funes Mori and Browning who haven't had much game time. Serious strength in depth in the back line.

We need to get some of these injured players back, but we're not completely shafted when we lose players anymore so that's an improvement too.

Let's hope they're still shit when we go across the park that'll hurt more!

We are at least their equals at a fraction of their stupid spending and we're 10 times more credible, if we threw off our phobias about Liverpool, we would beat them regularly as they are not a shred better than us in any way.

We have a conveyor belt of excellent club developed talent coming through into the first team and possibly the best squad we've had in decades courtesy of the excellent planning and ambition of the club. I see nothing but positives in what is happening with the club and believe that if we have a problem it is only this sad minority of our own fans who spout negatives because they want to find negatives whatever happens.

I personally still see RM as the weak link in that he has no fix yet on our best strategies and player positions but he is the manager and I believe he is still learning and will prove me wrong in the long run. Today was a disappointing result but a good one nonetheless.

So the five defenders in the six-yard box are there for what? Maybe if keepers should get everything in their six-yard box maybe it's pointless putting defenders in there. Just have them all floating around the penalty spot.

How Howard is to blame when Barkley loses his man is beyond me. But of course it's nothing new on here.

Not the result we wanted, but we go again.

I don't want to have a pop at a much improved Martinez but he has stated in the past that we don't need to practice defending set pieces. WTF? Two goals in two games both from corners.....

So that's Ancellotti, Moyes and Rodgers all seeing their last games at Goodison. Hopefully Ancellotti will see it as the poisoned chalice it is, and swerve it.

They are a poor side and we still can't beat them. I hate the derby.

I cannot believe the officials when they claim they didn't see it when there are 4 of them. Arsenal should have had a blatant one early on in their game when Gabriel was dragged down. It's just getting ridiculous and making a total joke of the rules.

One side accepts failure, the other doesn't. And we wonder why it's been 5 years since we beat them and 20 years since we won a trophy.

Similar to most fans, I pay to watch a football match not a hybrid of Rugby and Footy.

Bring on United.

COYB

Especially when it's Barkley.

I thought we played quite well today but feel a bit deflated as it could, and should have been a better afternoon. We were the better team but just lacking a bit of magic in the last third. Duelofeu didn't really get into the game enough and him and Naismith didn't provide much for the fantastic Lukaku. Maybe Kone could have come on earlier or even started after West Brom.

Galloway, Funes Mori, Barry (again), McCarthy and Browning all had great games but as someone above said, Jagielka was superb again, as he has been all season. This lad is showing that a captain doesn't have to be seen shouting and screaming at his players. He has gone about playing with 3 new and inexperienced lads (4 if you count Stones) brilliantly.

A split decision for MotM for me between Jags and Barry but I'll give it to Jags for the reasons above.

The theme you will see is this:-

He is lazy.
He is poor in the air
He lacks aggression
He is one footed
His performances are very patchy - either very good or very poor.
He has a poor touch.
His runs lack intelligence and he is often offside

Sooo, you think today he ticked all the attribute boxes??? We have nothing to worry about????

No, today was all about desire. He wanted it. You don't see that player every game, you see him one in five. When he controlled it it wasn't like glue, he used his strength to resist the opponent instead of standing flat footed. Determination.

Today he did all the dirty work well. It wasn't because we played his way, it was because he played with the right attitude. The only piece that surprised me was his leap he was getting up well.

Today was all about Roms desire. So less of this bollocks that it's always there, it clearly isn't. But long may this type of performance continue.

ps: I know Can wasn't in there, it's just I think he's a twit. : )

We've ended a lot of careers at Goodison. Davey at Man Utd and Brenda in particular make me quite happy!

Feels like 3 points! And before anyone gets their shorts in a bind, I'm joking....

I think that we played well today and I think there are harsh criticisms on here. The back four were great and as far as I'm concerned we don't need anymore defenders. The two lads at full back are more than good enough and it's not even their natural position. Garbutt is tied down.

The average age of the squad is coming right down and Martinez needs credit for that despite being allegedly shit in the transfer market. As Colin said, Funes Mori was great today. That Vickery clearly is as much an 'expert' as those crying about the fee. Probably the same ones who always bleat on about 'net spend'.

At the time, I thought maybe Howard had been blocked so couldn't get to the ball. Since seeing it on the telly, there is no doubt and for anybody to try and defend Howard is in my opinion not in the real world.

Every one has their own opinion I just happen to agree fully - not very often with the 3 Sky Sports pundits. If I were a betting man I would guess there are a lot more pundits reporters and supporters who would agree that goal was down to Howard. A floated cross right in the middle of the six-yard box with no obstruction has to be the goalie's ball.

Bad defending from our players too, but I'd expect any keeper playing behind me to grab that ball, bread and butter.

LFC are in terminal decline and every year they spend 𧴜M on rubbish and sack a manager their decline accelerates. Everton are on the up and we have seen them pass us in the other direction. Only a lunatic would recommend LFC's solutions for our club.

LFC are acting like like mediocrity is mandatory, EFC are acting like a club on the up and LFC's board saw that today. They saw a club that has turned the corner with a squad based on fantastic value however it was sourced and with a fan base that is firmly behind the club apart from one or two bitters.

LFC may have a new ground and expensive players but their emperor is naked. We're the power on Merseyside now.

I must be a bitter blue, because I want us to beat those "pretenders" from across the park every time we play them especially at our place, and especially when we are better team than them!

There are a lot on here saying stuff like "Disappointed; we should have won but good performance anyway, satisfactory result", a general sort of acceptance that we are inferior to them, same as the team that is on the field.
Any of our players who come on here will be happy then!

It's the same every derby match and it makes me sick.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.

As for Howard, he is simply a clown of a keeper.

Left the pub 15 mins ago and was barely out the door before I was texted with 'Reds in here now dancing about, Rodgers gone'

I'm gutted, was hoping he'd last at least to Christmas.

Up the Toffees!

I just think you are wrong about the player. Quite clearly the post I quoted is there for the 'bollocks' it is.

I've always been the first to say the lad has lacked consistency. He had a very average season last year but he's bounced back strongly this year. He now has seven goals in nine games. I'll take that. Not sure where the one in five comes from because he has been Everton's best player in three games.

You think he has an attitude problem, I don't see it. But then again I've always had this strange thing about Everton players, they get my support and I've never been one for laying into our own, writing vitriolic posts about the players I pay my money to support. But it takes all sorts I guess.

Who cares how many defenders are in the box if the keeper always forgets that he is allowed to use his hands to catch or punch the ball?

From the top balcony it looked like someone had nailed his feet to the ground and everyone within earshot agreed he should have come and claimed it - it wasn't as if there was a crowd of players to come through.

Yes Ross could have done better, but that was a regulation catch for any top flight keeper all day long. The second time in a week he has been rooted to the line.

It's not about looking for someone to blame - it's about looking for areas where we can improve - if mistakes are made then acknowledge them and learn from them. Nothing more and nothing less.

So why didn't Ross make the regulation header?

All Evertonians were disappointed not to win today, does it reflect on the positive changes that are happening at the club and the longer term prospects? Not a bit and all sensible fans will look further than one game.

How we played today cost LFCs manager his job, it got us a very good point with which most fans are very happy with, please don't become an irrational screamer, become an Evertonian.

Martin # 129, no doubt we have impetus right now but they will spend on a new coach and try to buy their way back. However, I agree about what they have become as a club; even more deluded and appalling.

I think Martinez is doing much better this season but today he needed to be confident and bold.

Typical of how we can't beat the Redshite once under Brendan"Voldemort"Rodgers though in his three years as manager.

Defensively we are rubbish at set pieces. Defenders don't seem to be able to man mark players. The amount conceded in the last 18 months has been ridiculous. Whilst general defending has got a lot better this season, set pieces haven't.

Stop looking for the proverbial scapegoat Howard for all the problems and start asking questions of the defence.

So now I'm not an Evertonian because I want to win. How long is it Martin since we beat this crowd?
We should and could have beat them today, but we didn't - once again.
I am fully aware of the great stuff that is happening at Everton, even better would be a victory of our greatest rivals.
Yes I am emotional alright.

One more point; one of the main reasons to have two holders in MF is to allow the FB's to attack, and when we have Coleman & Baines is (just about) makes sense. Obviously because of injury we're are without them and we cannot expect the 2 young lads to play like them, so why are we still playing with 2 holders as we are essentially 2 players down from an attacking point of view.

Barry & McCarthy offer nothing going forward and in the continuing absence of Coleman & Baines surely RM needs to slot Gibson in beside McCarthy or Barry, or even move Ross back there.

2. We are above, Spurs, Liverpool, Southampton and Swansea.

3. We have the same manager this evening, as we had this morning!

And that cheeky bastard Rodgers also thought that his team was unlucky today. Deluded or what. Hope he paid the officials before he departed. They played a blinder for him today.

We now need to play smart. We need to be streetwise. Take all our players out of the upcoming internationals. Get everyone fit and firing for the Man Utd game. We are right in the mix, this season.

Maybe let McGeady play for the Republic of Ireland.

The question is not how long they will give their managers to turn things around but how long are they giving themselves before dumping what can only be described as a bad investment.

Bill is probably thinking he is well off compared to that lot!

If Palace, West Ham or Leicester finish in the top five then there can be no excuses for us not being in the top 3. We have better players all round with Stones, Barkley and Lukaku in the team.

I think, they probably played as well as they're going to play all season and we can play a lot better than we did. Naismith, McCarthy, Deulofeu and Howard all just a little bit off form for me. The defence were brilliant, hats off to the three guys playing in their first derby.

Barkley and Barry had decent games and Lukaku is starting to look like the player we want him to be.

Just depressing, as again we've failed to beat them.

He was behind Ings and then runs around Ings leaving him with a free header. Not sure what his plan was but not a cunning one.

Oh btw it doesn't interest me that the Shergar lookalike is gone.

You too are also right Brin #148 - I think they must now be realising that they need to spend BIG (they thought they were but much BIGGER) to win this league / anything else significant for that matter and Danny Ings ain't going to do it, goal or not today.

They also must be gutted in that they have probably now realised that they actually had the golden goose in their clutches - and they sold it to Barcelona.

Hey-Ho!

Also very pleased to see Holgate on the bench, he's another star in waiting. Get the foundations built properly and see what follows....

Same old story. We have to go back to the Joe Royle days when we did know how to beat the shite. Too many managers and players seem to think they are playing the Liverpool team from the 1980s. Pathetic performance and shocking result. Every tin-pot Mickey Mouse side beats the Redshite these days. Why can't we?

We will have played 7 or 8 of the toughest games in the league in our first ten and in theory would be well placed to then go on a good run against the 'weaker teams'. In reality we will probably come up against lots of rejuvenated teams who have got new managers in such as Sunderland and Newcastle...

Still. If we can get 3 or 4 points out of Man Utd and Arsenal then I think that would make a very decent first quarter of the season.

Apparently, his sale of Wolves is proceeding apace thus removing a barrier to his owning the 'Mighty Fallen'!

Who allows Barkley to mark at a corner? How does a pro footballer misjudge the flight of a ball so badly?

He will not come for crosses, and even in Monday's game, he flapped at a corner in the last minute, and missed it.

Ings is not a big man and Howard is 6 foot 2 or 3; one step out and he could at the very least have punched it away. He seems glued to his line, and is therefore totally reliant on centre-back cover winning the header.

A good display from the rest of the team though, with Deulofeu the only other one under-performing. When Lennon came on, we really started to dictate the game. Kone too, was causing them problems.

Lukaku was fabulous – can you please play with that much commitment every week Rom?

Shit!

Anyway, that's another manager we got rid of. Poor old Brenda. Who will they give another £100M to spend?

Bring it on.

We drew at home against a poor side that was in crisis, as was proven by them sacking the manager immediately afterward. That is not a good result, it's a poor one.

But we accept failure. We accepted a horrible season last year. Meanwhile that team in "terminal decline" is only one point below us and they actually qualified for Europe last season, not us.

This acceptance of failure is really pathetic.

Oops they are awake and very aware, so that's that then. How Levia stayed on the pitch is beyond me.

Shame about Brenda going, looks like they will buy even more resources to advance even further upfield. Bloody hell though he has been an expensive stop gap. Anyway, yet more and more media attention to allow us to fly under the radar. COYB

We played a 4-4-2 against a 3-5-2 with Barkley up top and Naismith playing left wing. Then second half changed it to 4-3-3 and somehow expected better!

The recent upturn in fortunes is down to Barkley playing deeper and Jimmy Mac playing higher in 4-1-4-1 and we all know Naismith is useless on the wing it's in behind or up top!

In another frustrating note Lukaku had one his best games in a blue shirt but he was isolated as the lone front man and was winning flick-ons to no-one!

I can see why Martinez didn't want to pass it from the back with Baines, Coleman and Stones out but to play two holding midfielders and play long ball to Lukaku all game was shocking!

Special note to Funes Mori who in my opinion had a blinder and looks a real prospect after two games!

As far as I'm concerned, it's another game closer to Everton winning one of these affairs and it will taste all the sweeter when it eventually happens. In a strange way, not winning today may bring home to the team that they are far from the finished article and they still have much to prove. Aside from the money aspect, I know which club I'd rather be at at this moment in time and it doesn't wear red.

Losing points to the other lot is always disappointing but it hardly ever serves as a barometer of the season, just like a cup-tie doesn't act as an accurate method of defining a good or bad team. We have 30 more games to prove whether or not we have improved as a team and, despite the result, I would suggest that there are lot of good things to come from this team.

Look at some of those players who were unavailable for first-team duty today: Coleman, Stones, Mirallas, Baines, Pienaar and Garbutt; and then look at the young lads Galloway and Browning who will have gained valuable experience by playing in today's game.

Things aren't perfect at Goodison but there are some good reasons to be optimistic... unless of course the derby result is the be all and end all of things.

Gutless, supine, namby pamby display for the first 20 minutes of the game, showing them absurd respect and looking like we didn't want it as much as they did, a fault we have seen year after year for the best part of a decade.

Later, when we did start to get it together, I thought this is it, we're going to end the winless run. But there were silly problems thwarting us at the most inopportune moments (apart from the criminal refereeing display). Most notably, Barkley's stupid decision-making, which unless he gets it coached out of him, will ensure he never realises his full potential. Or Deulofeu's Messi complex, in which he takes on a man too many. And don't get me started on Howard...

That all said, I think we would have won if 75% of our first choice defence wasn't missing.

I think Nev would have flown off his line and either caught the ball or took the opposition player out. Or both. And that's what I think Howard should have done. They were so poor and our back six was so good, they could've played all day and not scored.

There was an excellent piece on Big Bob Latchford here recently. If Gordon Lee had bought a top-notch keeper, I'm sure we'd have won some silverware in that era. Instead we had Lawson and Wood. Forest got Shilton and won the league; that's the difference a top keeper makes.

Just remember 1986 when we lost Nev in the run-in.Surely Martinez has got to see this at some point?

A goalie who is not brave becomes a bit of a liability I'm afraid. Perhaps that's why he fails to come off his line - unless to make a catch unchallenged?

But overall we lacked that winning mentality needed to give them a good hiding and let's face it they were there for the taking. They were piss poor.

Very disappointing, Rom apart who took his goal well and generally looked up for the fight.

What gutless spineless performance! We didn't really have a go at them today at all and when you consider they are one of the poorest Liverpool teams in recent memory!

We had a great chance to go 3rd on 15 pts and the players bottled it! Out of the run of games we have this month, the RS was the easiest! Now we have to get a win against Man Utd and somehow try to win at the Emirates to stay in the mix!

Why Barkley is deep in the box is a mystery to me. He's not a good defender. Barkley misjudged the flight of the ball and allowed a free header. He should be someplace else on the field when it comes to corners.

Lukaku looks like he's worth £40+ million to me. His 1st touch is still at times a liability, but the rest of his game is top notch. He's not selfish and tries to distribute the ball. If he's got a good chance to shoot he does it quickly and has a knack for scoring goals from nothing. Today was an example.

I'm amazed at how many young Everton players were on the pitch. Nice to see the youngsters perform in a big game.

Taking a point is a decent result, not the one we wanted, but still isn't a negative result.

I'm with you on this - loved Big Georgie but he had too many off days to be classed with Nev or Westy. He was a vast improvement on Lawson and Dai but if we'd signed Shilton in that era, as we were supposed to be doing, then we would have won trophies in that era.

He was unfortunate to play in a generation of fantastic goalies e.g. Jennings, Clemence, Shilton, Parkes, Zoff, Maier, Corrigan etc.... so he was a bit overshadowed by that lot who grabbed all the headlines. God, if we had Georgie today we'd be unbeatable.

Anyway, I've got an early (ish) start tomorrow to play golf at the beautiful Llangollen course so I'll bid you a good night.

Martinez set up not to lose and achieved it. Too scared to remove Naismith's defensive ability, he only gave Kone 12 minutes to try to make a difference. I'm afraid the Derby and the stats got to him. He says he always gioes for a win but this time he didn't.

I'd also like to ask him why our biggest player stays upfield for corners and freekicks around the box.

Ross is playing quite well but is very predictable. Needs to collect, move and shift the ball quicker. Much quicker. This slow motion stuff is not doing us any favours.

International football is the true test of a great keeper, and Howard, who is past his best and will need replacing, had an outstanding World Cup a few years ago and easily makes the top three keepers at GP since the sixties.

Martyn was a better keeper than both Howard and Woods, because he was good at giving instructions to his back-four and the back-four knew what he would and wouldn't come for.

Howard has been a good goalkeeper and his longevity is testament to that but if we want to be up there with the big boys we need a more commanding keeper and to be honest there aren't that many around.

George, IMO, was miles better than Tim Howard but maybe my teenage memories are a bit off key now and he wasn't as good as thousands of us thought he was at the time.

How could you put Howard in the same league as Nev, West, and Martyn? I'd have Wood above Howard any day, but Big Nev was in a class all on his own.

Is it?! I'd say it's his performances week-in, week-out.

I understand that keepers make mistakes, but Howard has never been able to claim a cross and still, in the twilight of his career, refuses to address it.

"Howard in top three keepers at Goodison since the '60s"???

You should have gone to Specsavers.

That said, Ospina brings me to another point. Many on people wanted him as a replacement for Howard in the summer. I can see why, but it springs from exactly the kind of MOTD highlights viewing which would lead many non-Everton fans to praise the shot stopping displays of Howard. Ospina has made plenty of mistakes, but then he is not alone. Hart, who has been superb again over the past 14 months, was horrid for a year before that. Cech, whilst generally brilliant, had some off periods for Chelsea after his injury, and made two howlers against West Ham on the opening day. In fact, the vast majority of Premier League goalkeepers have a series of big mistakes behind them, just as Des Stegen has, Casillas, Valdes, Buffon and even the world's best Neuer (although he has barely any, and the few are easily attributable to his incredibly aggressive style).

Howard is not a top goalkeeper, and like Barry and the lack of a creative spark, he is one of three obvious areas where we could improve the side. But he is not dreadful either, and some of the criticism goes too far, and comes from people who too easily forget. Howard has had magnificent games for us and some great seasons. He may not be a Petr Cech or Courtois, but he has been a solid Premier League goalkeeper who has made errors, but who has made fantastic saves too.

We were impotent today I thought. The performance highlighted the need for a creative midfield in our squad (one below the age of 33) when teams look to defend against us. Whilst we are far better than last season, I fear a repeat of some of the frustrations when poorer teams come to Goodison and sit. Cleverley coming back will help, but really we should be looking to bring someone in in January. I was hoping for Kagawa in the summer, probably unrealistically, but that boat has sailed for sure now.

For what its worth, I thought that Lawson was better than Woods. Was Lawson not a record transfer buy, at the time, for a goalkeeper? I actually though that he was OK... but I was only a teenager when I saw them play.

And IMO both were better than Howard. Rankin was also better than Howard. And nobody could touch the big three: Southall, Wood and Martyn. The rest were not great.

Of course Howard is not a top keeper now, Roberto should've replaced him in the summer but probably had other priorities.

The fact is we haven't been blessed with many decent keepers since I first started watching in the sixties, and I'm afraid Howard has done a decent enough job to come 3rd.

Because the rest have all been way below average that's a fact. Can anyone name another keeper who even comes close?

I'm beginning to wonder about our chief goalkeeping coach. Can't he see what's wrong?

So what you're saying then – if I'm talking "utter shite" – is that the mood of the crowd has, what, no effect on the players at all? Which would make home advantage as an abstract concept in football just some... urban myth?

The players are, of course, ultimately to blame – along with the coaching staff. But the fans must also bear their share of the burden for being such a bunch of yellow-streaked fainthearts in the build-up to, and during, the derbies, year-in and year-out.

Also on Howard having a good World Cup. Well goalkeepers can play blinders when their team are underdogs. Happens all the time in the FA Cup, a lower league keeper keeping the score down. Doesn't mean we go and buy him.

My point is that when shots are raining in, Howard is not bad. The rest of his game is poor. Remember his rubbish against Wolves and Sunderland a few seasons ago. He never had proper competition.

I thought Howard had an off day. Maybe it's the unsettling affect of the new defence but he was just a bit iffy and partly responsible (with Ross) for the goal.

Back 4 was great. Galloway in particular looks such a smart player to go with his physical attributes. Watching a young lad organise people around him was great. Jags was desperate at times but always gets there. Funes Mori scares me but didn't put a foot wrong... likes a crazy dig from distance too and that will amuse us over the years!

Midfield 2 did a good job. Barry stood out playing spare but McCarthy did a job on Coutinho and was tireless. Easy to overlook.

Naismith, I thought played his role well. Good bit of needle and most weeks that's a headed goal - exceptional save from their dodgy keeper.

Del was Del. We talked about it all week and then the live forum went apeshit as soon as he gave the ball away. We didn't get the ball to him early enough or often enough. The goal was one such rare occasion and he produced a dangerous ball in. I don't expect a pacy creative type to waste energy chasing a team that don't want to attack and I wouldn't have subbed him. We bought him precisely for these types of games.

Ross showed his class. We have to stop wanting him to be Gerrard. He can be far more than that. Put some good movement and numbers ahead of him and watch the diamond shine. Obviously could do with some discipline marking at corners.

Lukaku got the better of 3 Centre Backs. No idea how Sakho is a Premier League footballer but it was still a big effort from the big man.

So I don't think anyone really did too badly. It's just that we didn't have people supporting the attack enough. JMac and Barry don't offer that and we've got used to it coming from our full backs... which means them both being out is a loss even if the replacements are playing very well defensively.

Tactically I don't think Roberto could have done too much more. It was all us and we just needed something to fall our way to blow their negative gameplan apart. If we had committed more men forward then we might have been looking at a defeat as that's exactly what the likes of Coutinho and Sturridge were banking on.

Refereeing was terrible. Lucas has to go for his third cardable offence - so clear. Can should have at least been on his last warning - he knew exactly where Barry was. Fair play to Barry for putting his head in compared to Herrera who cowered for Benteke's goal. The ref even let them take a rolling free kick from miles away from an incident - if Sturridge had scored from that then I don't think you could have calmed Goodison down enough to restart the game.

And we don't even get to keep Brenda in charge. A very odd derby day.

Howard is currently ranked second in the Barclays player rankings for goalkeepers behind only Peter Cech. I am tired of defending a keeper as good as Howard is and has been against simplistic or idiotic commentary. Back it up with facts, stats, etc and then make a valid point.

Howard was at fault for the goal only if you and others think a goalkeeper should come for a ball every time and that there is no other way of playing the spot. If you don't then he is not. The defender lost his man. Simple enough.

The fact is Howard is having a season thus far that puts him among the top of the League's goalkeepers. The keepers he is ahead of are many of the ones suggested as replacements by all of you experts.

I agree with the many posters on this site that say we have quite a good squad of players. The problem is we have a manager who picks the wrong players in the wrong positions and is obsessed with making changes every game. His ploy yesterday was not to lose. Instead he should have attacked against such a demoralised team like Liverpool.

Apart from the goal, the defence played very well despite our goalkeeper. A reflection on Martinez to me has always been how he has insisted on Howard. I was very surprised he didn't replace Howard when he first arrived. Instead he brings in Robles who is as bad.

If we're talking about this season, there has been an improvement but the seasons only just started and the regular errors are starting to creep in again. That's 2 goals he's been at fault at in 2 games. Barkley wasn't blameless either but the GK is the last line of defence. He should not be glued to his line when a cross comes in from 3 yards.

It's just putting extra pressure on the defenders. It's no wonder we're letting in goals for fun from corners.

I value critical thinking over statistical analysis when it comes to judging a keeper. A stat may show you how many shots he's saved, but will it tell you how difficult they were?

Howard has improved this season but he's still the player I'd most like to see replaced. He's quite rightly getting grief for last nights goal... as should Roberto and Barkley... but did anyone see his attempt to claim a cross against West Brom?! He jumped and didn't get within six feet of the ball. Absolutely laughable for a top flight keeper.

He's been good for us in other areas though and it still doesn't absolve the team from the responsibility of challenging the opposition.

However, once we start beating them (and it will come), then we can have a wining mentality instead of the "poor us, it's the cheating baised ref."

As Jay said, man up, go to the game knowing we will beat them instead of hoping or wishing.

With Brendan gone, most of you will be dreading who they bring in. I'm not a Martinez fan but can see that he is turning the corner; had he not bottled it, we would have easily beaten the Red Shite and sent Brendan on his way.

Where you at the game yesterday? Just interested to know if you are as much to blame as me when I was being a 'yellow streaked faint heart'?

Christ, I'm not putting Howard in a category as good as Nev, West or Martyn, I'm putting him in a category of keepers who were better than Woods.

Paul Ward #235

Paul, Atkinson and every body else on the planet will sometimes make mistakes. Bit if I'd made as many mistakes as often as he did then I'd have been signing on on a regular basis. The man is not merely incompetent, he is dishonest. He failed in his duty to issue yellow cards for cynical fouls on at least three occasions , one of which would have resulted in the dismissal of Lucas. This is the man, remember who sent Rodwell off for a perfectly good tackle. If ever a man loved the limelight it's him. His ego is right up there with Clive Thomas's. Some referees are just poor and don't favour either side. Atkinson is not in that category.

I am gutted we didn't win as think we should have but then I can't say anyone played badly (apart from Deulofeu) so it's hard to criticise. I'm gutted about Deulofeu too — I really thought he would terrorise them this game but it was not to be.

What is difficult to understand is that if he comes for crosses or corners 90% of the time even if challenged and he spills the ball in most cases a free kick will be given in his favour, how he expects to save a header from 6 yards out is unbelievable.

Hi Jim , you can defend Howard all you want but he should have claimed the ball out of the air or punched it.

If you watch Howard he seems to have no trouble catching balls as long as it is either side of the goalposts.
With crosses and corners in and around the six yard box he just stands there.
This puts even more pressure on the defenders.
No I think it's a confidence issue with Howard on crosses.

Explain to me more objectively, how did the tremendous support in the first half still end up with us going a goal down?

There is absolutely nothing negative about Everton's support in derby matches. You can only then be suggesting that there is something mystical at play here; some sort of magic medium where any negative, defeatist thoughts uttered in private somehow get transmitted to the players, and so any positivity from the training ground is overrode. Or are you possibly suggesting that negative fan forum musings likewise outweigh all that goes into the training ground.

What tripe.

"Anyone who knocks Joe Jordan on his arse, in full flight, gets my vote.".

They were the days, when centre forwards entered the 6-yard box at their own risk.

Lots to be encouraged about from today's game:

Two great young lads in Galloway and Browning coming into the first team squad;

Ferguson's jumping training starting to bear fruit with Lukaku (who I thought had a great game);

Funes Mori looks like a good bit of business... he can head a ball and has that "if in danger or in doubt kick it out" mentality – I personally like that.

Barkley beginning to show a bit of niggle in his game – he needs to develop that.

I am disappointed we didn't win but we will at Anfield.

One of the smallest players on the pitch, after pushing his marker in the back and was totally unmarked, scored a head within the 6 yard box.

Fair enough, but this happened right in front of the eyes of 6 foot 3 brick shithouse (pun intended) who was less than two meters away from said shortarse and allowed him to float away and put his head on the ball, which if he wanted Howard could take one step, jump and punch/catch.

He wasn't impeded, as it was Ings that was initially standing in front of him, so that obstacle had moved.

I have been impressed with him, apart from when he lost possession against the Baggies.

That's after you've gone downstairs and made a cup of coffee for Tim!!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqrTS1RGcw

So far, since getting caught in possession against WBA he's been pretty 'no nonsense' when under pressure. I guess time will tell whether that's his style or not – he'll get more comfortable here.

I loved him taking on the shot in the second half. Think it was off one step from about 40 yards! I'm all for it – surprise us every now and then. Maybe we'll see an absolute 'worldy' (I believe that's what the kids are calling them).

The last 10 minutes were a bit harem-scarem through midfield. And I thought the descendants of Beelzebub would again luckily nick one. Thankfully our defensive quartet stayed focused, and there was nothing to worry Tim in goal.

Funes Mori's interception was outstanding. (What was the ref doing?) And he looked more assured as the minutes ticked by. Browning held his side really well. And our captain marshalled everything really well. Which just leaves Galloway. Who, in my view, was outstanding.

When Stones came in to the team, you could see he had ability. But through inexperience got a few things wrong here and there. I can't remember Galloway putting a foot wrong in any of the games he has played. He is calm on the ball, judges well when to get forward. His tackling is fantastic.

There was one point yesterday, where I think it was Sturridge had a yard on him. But he got back took the ball away from Sturridge without making a desperate tackle. Then left Sturridge for dead before passing to a blue shirt. It was wonderful to behold. The lad looks the business.

I totally agree with you on Galloway. Considering his lack of experience, he has coped admirably this season. I think many where surprised when he deputised for Leighton at the end of last season. Now it's Luke who?

He has strength, speed and belief in his ability. I think he will eventually be an outstanding centre-half. It may never happen but imagine in two years a defensive pairing of him and John Stones. If it doesn't happen in blue shirts I'd be willing to take a bet it happens in England ones.

Everton is the priority. There is no doubt. But Having players in the national team shows how well we are doing. And attracts even more of these talented young players that don't get a sniff elsewhere.

I would be against fans getting on Ross back for these incidents. We all know he plays at his best when brimming with confidence.

To resolve the issue, I would bring Lukaku back for corners and allow Ross to lay on the edge of the box to pick up any clearances and drive us into a counter.

Let Deulofeu or Mirallas lay on the half-way line as a temporary striker.

Anything up to the width of the six-yard box, and between the two posts, is the keepers. It is really hard for an outfield player to defend in that area where you are almost right under the bar. You are actually better not trying to mark the striker, because you end up watching him rather than the flight of the ball, and so don't get off the ground.

That is where the keeper comes in. If it goes higher than the defender on the near post then the keeper should be favourite with the extra advantage of using his fists. He also has the advantage of modern day protection from referees, and any touch from a striker is normally a foul.

Howard should fully commit and take the ball plus anyone who gets in his way.

I also noted the inclusion of Mason Holgate on the bench. Martinez obviously wants this kid to get a taste of the first team, and Holgate never took his eyes off our back four.

This kid is another Stones....

One question? Where does this leave Oviedo? Surely he is now surplus to requirements along with McGeady. (For different reasons...)

If that's how you see it, that's how you see it - I see it very differently.

I see a keeper with Joe Bugneritis (Victor Anichibe has the same condition).

Basically the victim is a fucking big hefty grock, but thinks he's 5' 2" and 8 stone.

Or maybe you have another reason for why Howard stands on his line like a puddin' instead coming a yard off the line, raising his arms and leaping for the ball (y' know, like a...goalkeeper).

Look at the goals against Liverpool and West Brom again, look just how close the keeper is to the crossed ball and (nb: keeping in mind he can jump and use his hands) ask yourself, if I'm going to point the finger at one player, should it be Barkley or Howard?

I would ask the question, if we have FIVE defenders in the six yard box how come no-one manages to make a challenge on the ONE striker they have?

I think it's too easy to say a keeper should be coming out from a corner. Unless it is a real floaty cross the decision to do so probably has to be pre-meditated which can create a whole host of other problems.

To be fair I've never played between the sticks, most I knew where a bit tapped, maybe I am being to lenient on him but I really can't remember the last time I saw a keeper attacking corners. I suspect modern keepers are playing the percentages.

I agree with Eugene on this one. In my view, it is the keeper's responsibility. Ross got caught ball-watching, got a little nudge and didn't get off the ground. But I still believe Howard should be coming for this.

Other than near post, far post and a defender covering past the near post to cover the near-post flick on, I wouldn't have any more defenders inside the 6-yard box. Edge of it, yes; inside, no. Just other players to get in the way of a keeper coming out to claim the ball or punch it.

I agree that it appears to be a lost art. But probably why there are so many goals from corners and free kicks.

He was actually half-a-yard behind the line when the ball crossed the line yesterday, unbelievable.

When you talk shite, these days there is always the Internet to prove you wrong.

Tell me at which point Howard is half a yard behind his line.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fpUDP20ABk0

That's not a shove in the back at all. Ross just butchered his marking. A feather would have moved Ross further than that phantom hand in the back.

Barkley missed his marker. I do think Howard should have come off his line. Two players screwing up in my opinion.

Barkley should have cut out the cross?

Well okay, but it's a cross aimed into the box - in just about every game, some/most of them will be cut out, but a percentage will always beat the defender.

The important thing is when then do, and they're within' easy grabbing/punching distance of the keeper, he should plough through the defender and the attacker and make that ball his.

If Howard was doing his job, the criticism of Barkley's marking simply wouldn't be happening.

Prediction - if Howard continues to choose the option 'rooted to the fucking spot' (for crosses he could easily come for) I forecast a lot more criticism of the defensive capabilities of Barkley (or Naismith... Barry... whoever).

Seems very logical and simple to me but others obviously see the game differently.

Maybe the prediction could also be, if our defenders fail to do their job at corners, there will be a lot more criticism of Howard.

You are right, we all see it differently, but my view on both this goal and the West Brom is if our defenders had done their job properly we wouldn't be having this discussion.

One thing's for sure: we need to sort it out.

Howard has never been a good goalkeeper, at his best he is an average keeper. Anyone who defends his display at the two goals conceded against WBA and Liverpool is just taking the piss, or likes arguing for the sake of it.

For me, the continuous theme of officiating fuck-ups that seem to occur with such regularity during derby day needs more investigation than what Tim Howard may or may not be doing.

If Atkinson had played the game to the rules, Everton would of won.

Link

Big Tim pales in comparison, unfortunately.

I still think that we need a proper defensive coach and a goalkeeping coach. Martinez appears to think that defensive responsibilities lie with other clubs, not ours.

Howard has been a good keeper for us, not great, but on par with most other Premier League keepers; however, he is now slipping over the hill and a proper replacement should have been brought in a couple of seasons back in readiness to take over.

I have never heard or been around anyone who would "not" put the blame on Howard's shoulders for these type of of mistakes. Coaches would be disappointed if an academy goalkeeper, U12 upwards, made this type of error. Again, everyday this situation is acted out during training and 100% of the coaches would demand the goalkeeper to come and catch or punch the ball with distance and clear his 6-yard box of players, preferably up to the 18!

Stop trying to blame Ross! That useless twat should have gone through Ross and Ings and cleared his immediate area! People trying to blame anyone else for these type of errors from our goalkeeper is talking absolute bollocks! Try going on a basic goalkeeping course! And learn the game.

Please stop trying to stick up for a goalkeeper who has massive fundamental flaws in his game that other coaches exploit because they are so fecking obvious.

My disappointment is that Robbie keeps playing a guy that clearly has major flaws in the basics of his game.

He should be anticipating things like that not expecting people to always clear the danger for him (especially when he could see it was Ross who isn't our best defender).

So regarding a keeper, I don't expect Southall or Banks or Yashin.

But surely expecting a keeper capable of the following isn't being too demanding.

Link

The floated corner into the middle of the six-yard box with no obstruction is the goalies ball all day long. Get down to any school or park any day of the week and you will see it.

Opposition teams have long sussed Howard out and play on it. Remember the RS a few years ago, Dirk Kuyt stood next to Howard at a corner, he got so involved he forgot the corner and they scored.

He is a serious liability in the 6-yard box from crosses, always has been.

But for my money how many times must we see Howard screw up with a delivery from the flanks. He seems top have no spatial awareness where he is, routinely flaps at crosses and gets beaten by his near post; how many times last season? 6? 7? Yes he's a better than average shot stopper but our points tally would improve significantly with a better goalie-the most important position after the GF.

I'd put George Wood in that group but that might prove controversial as would Ray Clemence.

Speaking to my GK mate, he is of the opinion that a GK should command his 6 yard box. Fair enough. So, probably both defender and GK are at fault.

Fair enough but I would question the keeper's starting position. If Tim did that he'd start in Row D of the Gwladys Street.

Do any of the following count as any level?

NW Essex Saturday Div 1
Diadora League 1
Formers Sunday League ( that was fun!)

Or even playing centre half alongside Bryan Robson at Old Trafford?

Let me retract an earlier statement, I do understand the criticism but I still don't see him being solely to blame. That goal would not have been scored in Serie A because a defender would have been all over Ings like a rash.

After a lot of top keepers have been mentioned in replies, one who not only commanded his 6-yard box but the whole penalty area was Pat Jennings of Spurs.

I find it hard to believe that there are still some trying to defend his actions. He cost us a goal and will do so again in the same scenario – wait and see.

Not a bad shot-stopper, but has always been very suspect with crosses into the danger area.

Big George could have made the tea for them and provided a few comedy moments but that would be about his contribution.

I always thought our most underrated goalie was Thomas Myhre.

The crazy thing about TH is he can catch crosses very well but when the opposition are around him he goes to pieces.

Where is the next De Gea/ Courtois?

I thought tactically we were set up poorly, gave Liverpool far too much time and space to play, and showed them way too much respect. First half, we were atrocious. Let them have the ball and dictate play, they were set up defensively to nullify us and stop us playing and Roberto did not have an answer until the second half.

They had far too much space and time all over the pitch and but closed and shut us down. They were dangerous first half and their goal was awful from our perspective.

Ross's marking was pathetic and Howard not coming for the cross, that's bread and butter for a keeper but he bottles it or makes one of those mistakes more or less every derby.

We were lucky to go in 1-1 with a quality finish from Rom.

Add in the fact that our most creative player just had one of those days... he had an absolute mare; that didn't help, but still he manged to create a goal.

Second half was much better but still nowhere near good enough.

This was an awful Liverpool side; we should have been at them, in their faces, pressuring them closing them down. Had we have done that, we would have won that game comfortably. Instead, most of players just seem to stroll around, leaving way too much space for Liverpool to play.

Overall, really disappointed with the effort shown and really disappointed with Roberto, the lacklustre performance and tactics. I'm beginning to wonder if he knows what it takes to win a derby.

Passion, Roberto.

An opportunity missed; I can only imagine what big Duncan sat on the sidelines must have thought of the nonchalant effort of the players.

That said, his performance does not change the fact that we were poor, and could have won that game with more passion and better tactics.

He never got into the game and by the time he came off you could see frustration in his face. Deulofeu is going to be a great player but, like young Ronaldo, he needs to cut down on the tricks and just get past his man and whip in those crosses for Big Rom.

12 years of Moyes only helped to infuse the fear our players and club have whenever we play the dreaded Red Shirts.. Last Sunday was as bad as any loss because Liverpool are as bad as I have ever known...

We aren't playing the LFC from the 1980s any more; we are facing a mediocre bunch of crabs yet we still fuck it up. I can't see it changing either because Martinez is now fully up to speed on how to be a bottler in the derby. Still gutted and fuming as the result cost me a fortune as well...