Another shocking home result

Besic hit the post then went off with a hamstring injury. A horrible back-pass from Stones led to Howard conceding a ridiculous penalty, converted by Sigurdsson. But smart work by Barry off a corner gave Everton a somewhat undeserved equalizer. But Ayew fired Swansea ahead with a deflected shot off Stones. Everton were better in the second half but could not finish.

Michael Kenrick 24/01/2016 428comments  |  Jump to last

Kevin Mirallas earned a second successive start with his impressive performance against Chelsea, but did not last beyond the half-hour.
Everton 1 - 2 Swansea City

Roberto Martinez chose a well-balanced side with his two best wingers in Mirallas and Deulofeu flanking Romelu Lukaku, but Jagielka was rested and Oviedo started at right back. The gameplan was in tatters after both Besic and Mirallas went off injured while Stones and Howard combined to let in two goals in a dismal first half-hour.

It was pedestrian stuff as Everton made a sleepy start to the lunchtime fixture until Besic went on a nice forward run thanks to an excellent pass from Lukaku, the Bosnian's drive smacking the outside of the post. But inside 10 minutes he was limping forlornly off the pitch, with a hamstring injury, to be replaced by Tom Cleverley.

Everton struggled to exert any degree of control on proceedings as they tried to make space against aggressive pressing from the visitors, Britton going in sharply on Barkley for Everton's first free-kick. From that, Deulofeu was next to fire in on Fabianski from outside the area.

But a ridiculous back-pass from Stones put Howard under massive pressure and he was deemed to have fouled Ayew running in as he attempted to clear the ball late, Sigurdsson, smashing in an unstoppable spot-kick.

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Lukaku turned well to beat a defender but dragged his shot wide when something on target would have been more appropriate.

If the start had been poor, the Blues were well out of sorts as their play failed to get going until Baines finally swung in a great cross that bounced nicely for Deulofeu but his accurate drive was blocked out for a corner. Barry was the most alert, nipping in to glance a nice shot that was deflected in at the far post by Cork to level matters.

But Mirallas had been struggling, and he finally went off, with Pienaar coming on in his place. Deulofeu delivering a fine cross for Lukaku to attack but under some pressure. The Blues were still struggling for any continuity and another Swansea attack saw Ayew fire in a shot that deflected horribly off Stones's attempted block and past Howard at the near post.

Barkley made a good run, and his shot was blocked for a corner but it came to nothing and Funes Mori had to time his covering challenge well to stop the break forward by a very tricky Swans side.

A poor challenge by Rangel on Cleverley saw him carded but Cleverley's free-kick from deep was too strong for Lukaku, and Swansea were soon pressing the Blues back again. The visitors were simply playing far better than the home side, sharper, more committed, quicker to the ball, more accurate with their passing... Hopefully this was Everton's poor half; it needed to be followed by something far far better.

After the restart, Oviedo won a corner that was taken rather hurriedly by Deulofeu and defended away. On the other side, the linkage between Baines and Pienaar was not really clicking, and limited Everton possession was squandered too easily, allowing Swansea to press and Routledge to fire in on Howard, whose leg this time was in the right place.

The best move so far saw a nice interchange with and Lukaku and Baines, his cross to Barkley should have been buried but Baines was deemed offside. Everton were finally trying to get the ball into the area better, as Fabianski was booked for time-wasting.

Better play saw an brilliant cross in from Deulofeu but Lukaku was three feet behind it and Pienaar well beyond the far post could not control it. Another absolutely fantastic cross from Deulofeu, but again, Lukaku 5 feet further back, and not showing any challenge for the ball. But Everton were pushing forward better, Deulofeu firing in another great corner, but no Everton head on the receiving end.

Barkley was doing better, trying to take more control as a Number 10, but despite some intricate passing, he could not dig out a shot. Deulofeu fed Lukaku to feet but the big man tried and failed to curl in his shot, it drifting wide.

With Everton still unable to carve out a direct strike on goal, Martinez used his last sub as a like-for-like swap: Coleman for Oviedo, as time ticked away and Swansea came back into it a little, having resisted the second-half efforts from the Blues.

A better move saw a corner from Baines delivered in well, and a deep cross in from Deulofeu that was punched out by Fabianski, then a loud appeal for handball but it was a natural position of the arm: unintentional. Baines delivered another looping corner but Barkley could not get a clean strike on it.

Another absolutely brilliant cross from Deulofeu and this time Lukaka was perfectly placed but utterly unconvinced as he wafted lamely at it as it flew by him. A shockingly pathetic lack of commitment and determination from the big man.

Cleverley picked out Lukaku with an excellent forward ball to his feet but the big man yet again made a horrible mess of it and the defender won the ball. Everton's next attack lacked inventiveness and was eventually stalled by Fabianski.

Another brilliant Deulofeu cross but this one deemed to have curled out before reaching Baines well beyond the far post. Baines lashed a free-kick far too deep and well beyond Lukaku whose tumble was ignored by Ref Taylor. Into the last 10 minutes and it looked like Everton had exhausted all attacking possibilities, unable to penetrate the determined Swans defence.

Determined work from Barkley, with some great close control, finally saw a nice cross right onto Lukaku's head but his delivery was weak and easily saved by Fabianski.

Coleman worked his way in brilliantly after a fantastic ball from Stones but he scuffed his shot with only Fabianski to beat. As late subs by the new Italian manager broke up the tempo, another cross from Deulofeu, this time behind Lukaku whose header looped over the bar.

There was nothing wrong with Deulofeu's late delivery of a free-kick except that it was met by two Swansea defenders rather than a blue shirt, as time finally ran out for the beleaguered Blues.

The last play was a great corner, headed brilliantly in by Stones to Coleman who clipped over the bar from point blank range. It was simply not to be...

Another shockingly poor home result... but at least it wasn't another draw.

Scorers: Cork (og:26'); Sigurdsson (pen:17'), Ayew (34').

Everton: Everton: Howard, Oviedo (67' Coleman), Stones, Funes Mori, Baines, Barry, Besic (10' Cleverley), Deulofeu, Barkley, Mirallas (29' Pienaar), Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Robles, Kone, Lennon, Osman.

Swansea: Fabianski [Y:52'], Rangel (91' Naughton) [Y:35'], Fernandez, Williams, Taylor, Cork, Britton, Ki, Sigurdsson [Y:64'], Routledge (77' Amat), Ayew (89' Eder).
Subs not Used: Emnes, Nordfeldt, Montero, Barrow.

Referee: Anthony Taylor

Attendance: 36,908

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Reader Comments (428)

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Dave Williams
1 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:30:04
Attack looks great.


Oliver Molloy
2 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:33:06
Happy with that team considering the games coming up, it is good enough to beat this Swansea side, BUT which Everton will we turn up.
Paul Carsley
3 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:49:00
£50M for Stones – take the money and run. Give me strength!!!
Dean Williams
4 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:49:56
Fooking John Stones again... get big money for this self-acclaimed greatest defender on the planet.
Alexander O'Brien
5 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:50:26
This attitude of ’I couldn’t be arsed’ by Stones is wearing thin. That was quite appalling from a professional footballer.
Christy Ring
6 Posted 24/01/2016 at 13:51:27
Besic will be a huge loss, has been a revelation, and gone for awhile now. The Sky commentator said he was struggling with a hamstring injury, why did he start, Bob??
Colin Hughes
7 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:05:49
Oh dear... another two goals conceded at home... and counting. As I have said before, 6 wins is abysmal, these are bottom three and have won five. Martinez should be sacked tonight regardless of result today.
Jim Hardin
8 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:06:32
Jags gets rested due to too many games in a row too soon but Besic, with a history of hamstring problems, and playing a few games in a short time also starts? I don't understand. Mirallas is just an unlucky injury.

What does Stones have to do to get dropped?

Anto Byrne
9 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:07:58
A 21-year-old trying to at least play football and the Goalkeeper of the Year, aged 36, taking out the forward recklessly. Case closed.
Paul Carsley
10 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:10:50
Another waste of £40 plus petrol to watch this rubbish. Have to laugh otherwise you would cry
Mark Rimmer
11 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:16:41
Forget Messi and Suarez! That Stones and Howard combo is lethal!!
Anto Byrne
12 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:19:11
Had the keeper not gone to ground, he would have stopped it. He really is the weak link in this team.
Roger Helm
13 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:19:21
We get so many soft tissue injuries because Martinez can't be bothered to work on fitness, strength and conditioning, and then brings recovering players back too quickly. I thought he had a physiotherapist qualification.
Joe Foster
14 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:20:23
For all those that say "at least it will be exciting" you are wrong it's just depressing.
Paul Hughes
15 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:21:11
Total embarrassment, Sunday League defending woud be better...
Martin O'Sullivan
16 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:21:44
Wow, that was a terrible first half. One thing is we are so consistent at being inconsistent, I won’t ramble on but I am picking holes in everyone today... Not good, they need a rocket up em!!!
Ian Riley
17 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:22:34
Entertaining is what people on here asked for. Roll on second half...
John Jones
18 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:25:39
As with the last 18 months we have no plan A. We amble through games hoping for lucky breaks.

Barkley is never ever ever going to be workd class, don't care what anyone says. Dele Alli isn't either but hes a better prospect than Ross imo.

Stones comes across increasingly nervy but still has his arrogance, im not sure thats a good combo.

Bye Rom.

We could get beaten 12-1 now and RM wont be sacked, especially with City on the horizon. You can bet your house on us winning the league cup giving RM a passport to next season and we have to suffer this total mess for another season.

Our club is run like a chippy and we play some awful football, ive never been this bored or unbothered watching Everton.

Dave Pritchard
19 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:26:16
Stones has to take 100% responsibility for the first goal. He has been iffy for a while now and should be dropped for Wednesday provided we have enough bodies left to play.
Gavin Johnson
20 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:27:05
Slating John Stones again, Jim?! I think you're slowly becoming what everyone else is to your hero, Tim Howard.

I'll be optimistic and say we'll score 2 more goals next half. Only problem is we'll probably concede 1 or 2.

Jos Rowland
22 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:28:27
Even by a small chance, if we happen to score 2 and take the lead, would you really fancy us to keep hold of it???

That’s how much this season sucks because of this Spanish idiot.

Rob Hooton
23 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:31:45
Can’t believe Swansea didn’t know none of our corners get to the near post!

Woeful first half, can we please have our good half now?

John Jones
24 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:32:08
Gavin Johnson (#16),

Why shouldn't he slate Stones? He is over rated, his inflated value is as much to do with his nationality as anything else. He isn't the best young ball playing centre back in Europe, that's codswallop.

There far better defenders than him in England. He tried to do the "right" thing but trying to do the right and being good at it are different things.

Stones has three things going for him – nationality, age, and pundits oozing some 'Beckenbauer' crap every time he runs forwards with a ball.

£50m thanks and goodnight.

Peter Jansson
25 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:32:15
This is so far (at half-time) maybe the most pathetic Everton game this year. Stones and Howard have really been brilliant today... The first goal I give 50% Stones and 50% Howard. The second, bad luck but still it seems like Everton is not really mentally there.

I have no idea what the problem is. Martinez has to take responsibility for that. The referee also made a total blunder before the 2nd Swansea goal.

At the end of the day. Everton is as ALWAYS TOO PREDICTABLE! Both in offence and defence. They get high pressure and make the usual mistakes. The back for and the midfield can not handle to take the ball forward so so far we have not had a single really good attacking play in the whole game.

Howard has to go. Martinez needs to wake up or get some serious help.

Roger Helm
26 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:33:50
To be honest I have written off the Martinez era. He will never change, so we will never get results under him, with such amateurish defending. I just hope he does not get us relegated next year, as all his teams slip down the table year on year.

Sell Stones and get in a proper centre half. If Martinez will not interest himself in defending, we need a big strong experienced gobby leader at CH. John Terry is out of contract this summer.

Tommy Coleman
27 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:33:52
Dreadful first half.

Howard scared to use his hands again for the pen.

Stones needs to"calm down", he'll be dropped for the cup game.

Bill Gall
28 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:34:23
I am sorry but anyone who still insists that this manager is the right one for Everton better shake their head. There are over 30,000 supporters at the home games who have a first class view of what is happening on the pitch and surely they must notice the lack of any sort of tactics or enthusiasm in the team.

Yes, we have a cup game on Wednesday and Martinez wants to go down as the first Everton manager to win a cup for over 20 years but it is the league that is your bread and butter that draws the crowds and helps pay the bills. Games like this are going to see the crowds diminish rapidly.

Frank Sheppard
29 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:39:17
If we lose this one, the Board must act quick and get rid of Martinez. How else do we convince Barkley, Lukaku, Baines, Stones, Mirallas, Besic, Deulofeu, Coleman etc that we have any ambition at all?

I don’t know as yet who should be the manager, but clearly it isn’t Martinez. He has the tools to do a great job, but not the ability. Sad.

Time to get rid, and very quickly! :-(

Colin Hughes
30 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:39:37
Pienaar is finished, Howard is finished as is Oviedo so why does Martinez bother keeping them on the payroll when he didn't sign any of them? Let's Naismith go without replacing him and now it looks like Lukaku's goals are drying up.As he made one good decision this season?
Lennart Hylén
31 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:44:12
If we do not win today, Martinez must be replaced. Our way of conceding goals is dreadful. We will never be a top 4 team playing like this. These players earn more in a week than some of us earn in a year.

Perhaps it is the reserves playing for the Toffees today.

Frank McGregor
32 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:51:40
Relegation battle coming up, too painful to watch.

I predicted 56 points this season.... we will be very, very lucky to get 40.

Jim Hardin
33 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:51:53

Yes, I am slating Stones, as I have almost since the time he became the next great hope of England's defenders. If he was not English he would be blasted for his inability to read a game, position himself, and defend inside his box. Why does he always slide? Because he is out of position. Why try a stupid back pass? His errors and cowardly defending of crosses are costing points.

Tim Howard isn't even my favorite American GK, much less my favorite EPL keeper. What I do detest is stupidity in criticizing the Keeper for goals caused by the repeated mistakes of others, and then piling on of opinions and the use of one prior season of stats while ignoring a career's worth and current ones. Howard has been treated unfairly on here by comments such as worst GK in the EPL, always been crap, etc.

I also defended Baines from the idiotic comments about him last season. Him I do rate so highly that he is an untouchable to me.

Think what you wish but by all means keep your blinders on when it comes to the errors of Stones.

Steve Roomes
34 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:53:27
MARTINEZ OUT !!!!!!!!!
Stewart Lowe
35 Posted 24/01/2016 at 14:58:55
Come on Kenwright, enough is enough. The stats don’t lie and the stats wont change. If we lose against Swansea that will be 1 win in the last 10 which is a stat only Aston Villa share with us and Villa don’t have as big or as good a squad as us so that makes it even harder to swallow.

Every game we play looks like an epic of a game because of we allow teams to come at us and it makes for a watchable game from a neutrals point of view, but not from my point of view as an Evertonian.

The only reason Martinez is still in a job is because his attacking play mask’s how poor we are elsewhere, but that is never going to change because that is how Martinez always plays.

I can’t believe I am saying this but unless Martinez is gone after this loss or we miraculously turn things around in the next 15-20 minutes I am gone as an Everton fan of 32 years.

Martin O'Sullivan
36 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:10:17
44.57 points per season based on Bobby's average win ratio!!!! Looks to be bang on target!!! Ffs this is killing me. Can’t take much more of this rubbish!!!
Tony Twist
37 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:11:33
How is this joker still our manager is beyond me. I have no confidence in the manager and no confidence in the board to get rid and get the right replacement in. I've said it before but I will say it again, Martinez will get us relegated given time.
Stewart Lowe
38 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:14:40
Come on, Bill Kenwright – stop being nice and let Martinez go. Please end this woeful dross.
Eivind Nyhus
39 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:18:28
Ralph Basnett
40 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:20:45
Easy to write this up - simply shite!!!!!!

Martinez go and take Howard, Pienaar, Stones with you.

Steve Roomes
41 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:21:41
He has to go – he is killing the club! He can’t set up a team or get his defenders to defend. We will win nothing with this joker.

I really believe this is the best squad we have had for a long time and they should be in top 4. I am refusing now to watch my beloved club again until he goes.

Paul Setter
42 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:22:10
Absolutely shocking. I turned off after 70 mins – got bored.
Roger Helm
43 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:23:14
Two shots on target against a team almost in the drop zone says it all. First ever loss to Swansea. Just waiting for Martinez to say it was an incredible performance and we were unlucky.

Only Barry and Deulofeu can hold up their heads tonight.

Joe Foster
44 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:24:38
I cannot wait to hear the usual shite from the Martinez apologists.

Oh we are progressing...
Ooh we are playing great football...
Oooh he is a young manager...
Ooooh it’s just round the corner – you just can’t see it.

Phil Sammon
45 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:24:47
That was terrible. Absolutely hopeless. Martinez surely on thin ice.
Nigel Rickman
46 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:26:00
After we lose the tie on Wednesday, surely they have to sack Martinez before he takes us down, just like Wigan. He has not got a clue how to organise a football team. Wednesday night could prove to be embarrassing.
Daniel Joseph
47 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:26:30
Christopher Timmins
48 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:27:06
Steward before Bill tells the manager to go he should go himself, he is a joke and we are where we are because of him!
Ralph Basnett
49 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:27:50
Unfortunately he already has his excuses as it will be blamed on the early substitutions unsettling a balanced team and that Howard was not at fault for the penalty because it was handball.

Same old same old!!!!!!

Jim Harrison
50 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:29:14
For me, that's enough for Bobby. How can a team with so much talent perform so poorly? If not in terms of the way the team play, then in terms of results. Why would any of the bright young stars want to stick around?

As for Howard... for fuck's sake!!!

Ian Hollingworth
51 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:29:29
Some of us have known all along that we do not have a good enough manager.

Maybe we all need to consider the possibility that maybe our young supposedly brilliant players are just not good enough.

Colin Glassar
52 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:30:10
Howard - Poor
Oviedo - Poor
Stones - Terrible
FM - Useless
Baines - Good
Deulofeu - Average
Cleverley - Poor
Barry - Good
Pienaar - good
Barkley - poor
Lukaku - Poor

Manager - Pathetic.

John Jones
53 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:30:55
So you're BK in the boardroom and you've decided to sack Roberto; you have two scenarios to consider:

A) Do you sack him tonight, get someone in with a few days left in the window with a chance to at least get a player in.


B) Do you wait until the window closes, sack him, get someone in and pocket £8.5M into "other operating costs".

Dave Southword
54 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:31:05
Players didn't seem particularly bothered, so I don't see why I should be.

Felt a bit Walter-ish today.

Michael Ward
55 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:31:22
I do think this team has had its unlucky moments this season, you could even point at some today, but after that absolutely abysmal performance you have to say Martinez needs a cup win to keep his job.
Andy Crooks
56 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:31:36
I said it last season and still believe it. Martinz is the worst coach we have had in our history. His adherence to a dead philosophy will, in time, relegate us. His ineptitude is beyond belief.His admirers ask his detractors to name a replacement.I would say anyone, anyone in the football league with a coaching badge.

This is not just a reaction to today because I have considered him to be utterly shit for a long time. I defy any Evertonian to defend him. The Naismith money should be used to pay him off and fuck him out of our club before he destroys it. What a sad combination, a really good squad and a self serving charlatan being paid a fortune to coach them.

David Smith
57 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:32:45
Martinez is going nowhere, in both senses.
Gavin Johnson
58 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:33:58
This is not good enough. The football is nice to look at this season. But the results are the same. And at the end of the day it's the points tally on whether a manager is seen as a success or failure.

I feel sorry to say it but on these results Martinez is failing. I'm having deja-vu's of last season where I accepted the results in the league on the hope of winning the EUFA Cup. This season it's the League Cup.

If we lose against City, I think it's time for Roberto to go.

Jay Wood
59 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:34:02
The unwanted stats on our season (added to last season) are mounting up and are almost to numerous to list.

Is any one, any one at all, prepared to justify and defend any aspect of that performance, be it the team, players or manager?

Bewildering, worrying times...

Philip Bunting
60 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:34:23
On Martinez, I have sat on the fence with from last season until now believing we are close to coming great again and with these players we should be. I'd now be sounding out / looking for a new man that knows how to take this group forward.

Where was the fight, passion, belief that was evident pre Martinez?.... dispairing blue. I cannot wait until this season of a car crash is over. Two seasons of utter shite.

Max Murphy
61 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:34:34
Andy #41. I totally afree with. RM is destroying our once great club.
Andy Ellis
62 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:34:36
Taxi for Roberto, 6 wins from 23 league games, enough is enough, Adios
Jim Harrison
63 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:34:59
So, Jose, £3 million until the end of the season... £500k per place above last season's finish, waddaya say?
Denis Richardson
64 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:35:26
Waiting for the Martinez backers to defend that one.

Doesn't matter how good we are going forward, if we continually ship goals every game, we won't win many. 34 league goals let in now in 23 games...

One league win in the last ten.....that IS phenomenal.

Joe Green
65 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:36:29
Martinez has built a good squad, but this is a results business and his have been and are poor. He should never have been appointed to a top 6 club.

I hope we stay up this season, but then we must get a new coaching staff or it will be relegation season. We are on the Wigan trajectory... cup win or not!

Ray Said
66 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:36:34
We have won three from 11 at home. We have won one in the last 10 PL games.

Breaks into a song from the '70s: "Go home, you bum, go home!"

Colin Glassar
67 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:36:43
Same here Dave. I just seem to have lost interest over the last 12 months. Once again, Everton just kick you in the balls. I don’t give a toss about Wednesday as this lot don’t deserve my mental health. Fucking disgraceful display that.
Dave Pritchard
68 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:38:45
Only one positive from that game was that Pienaar showed signs of his old form.

Colin your ratings are a little unfair on Funes Mori though – to rank him as being below ’poor’.

Paul Doyle
69 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:39:09
Sack him anyway, whether we are in a semi or not. We sacked Bingham while in a semi, so it’s not as if it’s never been done... and before we hear "Who would come here?" – with the potential here I think we would be surprised.
Phil Rodgers
70 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:39:19
So angry. The lack of leadership and discipline is outrageous. This has been going on since the beginning of last season. The level of apathy from the board is frightening. He needs to be relieved of his duties immediately.
Oliver Molloy
71 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:39:23
Pienaar - good.....
You can not be serious !

I'm so angry with that performance, I can not put it into words right now.

Paul Andrews
72 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:39:30
It’s obvious to anyone blessed with eyesight:

John Stones cannot defend.

Ernie Baywood
73 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:39:44
This isn’t even a new low, just the same low as usual.

To be honest, I couldn’t even get excited about nearly denying Swansea in the fifth minute of the four added on.

John Parker
75 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:40:24
Sack Martinez, end of.
Colin Hughes
76 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:41:03
Let’s not forget we lost our last two home last season, 0-2 to Sunderland and 0-1 to Spurs. Leicester, West Brom, and Hull all left Goodison undefeated when they were fighting relegation last season so it’s gone on for 12 months.

That should be enough for any right-minded board to get shut now... forget Man City on Wednesday; if they want to get to the final they will. He should be judged on his diabolical league form.

Sondre Haga
77 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:41:34
Martinez has had a whole week to prepare the boys for this game against bottom side Swansea. We all saw how they responded. They don’t believe in this.

I believe Martinez has lots of good ideas, modern training methods and so on. But when it comes to matchdays, the players just doesn’t look fired up. I’m afraid we need a change.

Sean Patton
78 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:41:53
Bad defending and bad officiating once more can’t wait for these things to even themselves out, haha there must be a huge avalanche of decisions coming Everton’s way.

If Funes Mori had made the mistake that Stones did we would never hear the end of it. I am sick of the sight of him swanning around with his step overs and ambling back when the opposition are attacking how about he does some actual defending!

James Stewart
79 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:44:11
Embarrassing, Martinez has to go; I've no more energy or appetite to even debate it, his teams are simply chaotic. Unacceptable
Clive Mitchell
80 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:44:42
Let’s hear it for Newcastle, Sunderland and Villa. The only teams to have won fewer games this season than us. The Magpies and the Mackems are only one win behind.

Relegation fight now on, because that has to be the worst first half performance I’ve ever seen – and I saw Gareth Farrelly. That degree of lack of movement, lack of fight, lack of effort has to be put down to the manager. Adios.

Mohammed Horoub
81 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:44:52
Sick and tired of Howard’s impotence.
Sick and tired of Stones’s arrogance.
Sick and tired of a philosophy that doesn’t allow defenders to kick the ball into touch or Row Z or anywhere but our penalty area!
Sick and tired of Martinez and his relegation tactics...

The only positive for Wednesday is that Howard’s useless ass will be firmly on the bench.

I just want to apologize for every anti-Moyes post I ever made. Karma has had its say... If we do ever get rid of this muppet I will never ever complain about a dour 0-0 ever again. I will embrace it.

We can’t win, we went from 1 extreme to the other but Moyes never had players like Lukaku and Deulofeu to select. If these are our only 2 choices I will choose the Moyes school of football, every singl day.

Congrats to Swansea who have beaten us for the second time in their history and first time in the league. Both games under the wise leadership of Senor Possession... Breaking records left, right and centre. I think he has goals conceded at home firmly in his sights...

I feel sorry for the Blues who had to sit through that at Goodison... We all deserve so much better, we definitely deserve more than Roberto Martinez...

Jason Murray
82 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:45:11
Absolutely disgraceful! Not much more we can say really.
Steve Roomes
84 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:46:14
Please Bill get rid of Martinez before he takes us down!!!

I’m sick and tired of being kicked in my balls by this shite Martinez keeps providing, surely we have a better squad than Leicester?

Gavin Johnson
85 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:46:25
If this mooted takeover happens.. and we should hear something soon. Will the new owners keep Martinez on?! I shouldn't think so...

I'll keep dreaming and hope we'll have the big takeover and bring in a new manager for a new era..The new manager being Jose Mourinho.

Roman Sidey
86 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:47:25
The positives are: Barry was excellent and put in a full 90. Deulofeu should have had 3-4 assists from sublime crossing. We didn't see Kone.

The rest is all negative. Some people were saying Pienaar was doing well and that he and Baines were linking up well. Firstly, Pienaar was crap for most of it, and, secondly, the link up between he and Baines was uninspired at best and, actually slowed us down as one was usually waiting for the other. If anyone know anything about Aussie Rules, think Gary Ablett Jr in his first two seasons at Gold Coast.

Martinez has to go, that is a given in my opinion. However, Barry, Gerry, and to an extent Cleverley aside, the players should not escape criticism for this shite. There is no urgency, no passion, no reaction. How many handballs do you let go before throwing a tantrum? Most fans say they don't want to see their players carrying on and abusing the ref to get their way, but the clubs that do that win things. Fair enough, the players play to the manager's system, but when it isn't going to plan, the players need to step up and take it in their own hands.

That said... Martinez out!

Peter Jansson
87 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:48:06
Martinez is a useless manager... I don't know how many mistakes he has done this year.

The defense problem has to be solved. You cannot expect Everton to win any games when they let in 1 or 2 shit goals due to own mistakes in about every second game. There is no spirit on earth who will save your ass from this shit.

They cannot blame bad Luck either. Swansea was better when the game was 0-0 and 1-1. Or at least they were playing smarter. They had done their homework. They knew how to punish Everton (like everybody know). High pressure on the two central defensive midfielders and the back four.

Everton did not managed to control the game in the beginning. It ended up like usual. A desperate hunt for goals in the end, banging a defence with 10 men.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Vijay Nair
88 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:48:39
Same shit different day....
Colin Glassar
89 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:48:59
Oliver, at least he tried!! The rest were just strolling around. Do these guys have any sense of pride? Another landmark Roberto, the first time Swansea have ever beaten us!!
John Austin
90 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:50:46
Agree. He should go tonight. He won't change things for Wednesday so what's the point in waiting? If he had half an ounce of dignity he would resign. Having said that, most of the players should hang their heads in shame. I can't work up the enthusiasm to get angry any more.
Oliver Molloy
91 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:51:21
Wrong, Colin, Swansea have beaten us at Goodison before 3-0.
Christopher Dover
92 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:53:26
Now come on all. Our manager is after a never before double.
Win a cup and get relegated.
Alan Bodell
93 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:53:56
Yet again, teams have sussed us, every time we get the ball our players are tightly marked but every time they get it there is options a plenty.

Our total coaching staff from top to bottom needs cleansing, no point in stating the obvious that Martinez should fuck off because that wont happen until we get relegated.

Anto Byrne
94 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:53:56
It was a bad back pass from Stones but an ultimately reckless challenge from Howard who was not alert to the danger around him. Don’t forget, this is the Goalkeeper of the Year we are talking about.

Resting the captain after one game back is bordering on insane when Stones needs a rest. I have no idea why Pienaar is playing – he kept losing the ball or falling over. Lukaku had no support once KM went off and had 3 defenders on him at all times.

They had everyone back for the siege at the Alamo, we just weren’t good enough and that starts at the top. Bill Kenwright and the board need to act and get a real manager in.

Martin O'Sullivan
95 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:55:07
I have been hoping we would turn the corner for two seasons now. And unfortunately it’s not changing. Tried to be positive before every game and tbh I thought today was not gonna be our day. We have to do something – this brand of football is totally killing us and the players look bored, as I would be having to play exactly the same week in week out.

Also even if we got some quality in this window they too would eventually land up playing the same old shite. The players we have are class – it’s just the manager is not... Sorry but Bobby has to go!!

Colin Hughes
96 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:55:26
Oliver (#66), that 3-0 was at Swansea in the League Cup last season. They had never won at Goodison.
Paul Thompson
97 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:56:16
I'm dejected and disillusioned. But I don't think there was no effort or passion. The second half was an improvement and we made enough chances to win (by Coleman alone). But the same problems persist. Martinez cannot set up an effective defensive formation. That spreads panic and mistakes. Teams that struggle to score suddenly find we are an easy touch.
Guy Hastings
98 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:56:23
Earlier today I commented on the vitriol on this site and how I though it was somewhat over the top. After today, I wish to retract that statement.
Dave Pritchard
99 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:56:44
Oliver, Swansea beat us at the Liberty 3 - 0 in the League Cup.
Jay Harris
100 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:57:12
Teams now find it easy to just mark Lukaku and we have no other goal threat.

At the other end John stones has not been the same since that injury and now with the crowd on his back is rapidly losing confidence.

Enough has already been written about TH who was past his sell by date 2 years ago. But we still have enough talent to be top 6 with a decent manager which Bullshit Bobby is not.

Anyone who thinks we will get a result at Man City is a super optimist.

Liam Reilly
101 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:57:26
It's fair to say that RM has had enough time now and I doubt that he'd still have his job if he was with any other top flight side.

We really are shocking at the back and the anixiety shows throughout the side, however how on earth did no-one get on the end of just one of Del Boys crosses is beyond me.

Colin, average for Del ; can't understand that rating?

Martin O'Sullivan
103 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:58:35
I've had a few wines during the match, so my mind might not be its clearest. However, I'm quite certain the I didn't write the post 69 above, though I'm in agreement with what the poster, whoever he's really called, has said.
John Austin
104 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:58:43
It's normally this time of the year when he tells us that we will have a strong second half of the season.
Tony J Williams
105 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:11
From what the steward was telling me, Kenwright isn’t going to be an issue for very much longer. He sent pretty much a goodbye note to them today.
Christy Ring
106 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:12
Absolutely SHOCKING. If Martinez was manager of any other club, he'd be sacked. We're just above the relegation zone now, and in freefall, and haven't won a league game since boxing day,which is a disgrace.
John Jones
107 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:20
Get rid of him tonight along with Jones, Bergara and any other Wigan no marks.

Have Ferguson in charge for now with Royle and Unsworth assisting.

Get Karanka from Middlesbrough. His teams defend and attack in decent measure and before you say ugh another Spanish manager etc. this hut isn't a charlatan he has played at the top woth top players and is doing as a manager, unlike RM who has somehow fooled people into thinking he is important in Spanish football.

Eddie Dunn
108 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:35
Not the best preparation for Wednesday. A spineless performance, lacking intensity throughout.

Stones seems to pride himself in having time on the ball, displaying his"coolness" but he is creating pressure on others. Howard was a fool leaving his foot in on the player going over the bye line anyway, another example of him panicking.

These early kick-offs certainly often have a half-baked feel to them, but it is up to the professionals on show to get up for it. Lukaku seemed to be dreaming of his next move, while Stones makes silly errors every game. The injuries didn’t help, but Martinez has to carry the can for that display. The crowd almost expect a cock-up every home game .

Swansea hardly did anything in attack, but got 2 goals, so Man City will destroy us, and this poxy season will go the way of last year.

Chris Leyland
109 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:38
Anyone who thinks this manager should still be in the job needs to get themselves to the Dr's ASAP. He is a pretender, he is a confidence trickster and he is a fraud. He has been repeatedly exposed as such week after week for a year and a half. 18 wins in the league in 61 games is absymal ab is failure.

No plan on how to play other than one way which patently doesn't work. No in-game management technique. No learning from the same mistakes that happen again and again at the back. He has no absolutely no redeeming features for me. His happy-clappy endless positivity and false charm are grating in the extreme.

He is destroying our club week by week. The longer he stays, the more damage that will be done.

Ian Riley
110 Posted 24/01/2016 at 15:59:54
I think it's best the club delay sending season ticket renewal forms out for a couple of weeks. Hit a new low today!!
Gerard Carey
112 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:00:40
Same old same old, we are soft touches for every other team. We have a soft underbelly, our manager does not do defense, he has even admitted it on many occasions. Time to get rid of this bullshitter. I don't even want to hear his post match comments, will be more utter drivel.

Supporting this team with nearly 50 years, and I cant ever remember us having such a leaky defense. If he is still in charge next year he will take us down. Where are all his supporters now!!!!!, the ones who were saying at the start of the season to give him the first ten games... then it was give him till Xmas, and now we are nearly in to February and same mistakes being made over and over again.

He has previous!!!, and he will take us down.

Kieran Kinsella
113 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:00:53
It's like Mike Walker again but we have that joker short thrift.
Dave Pritchard
114 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:01:11
Jay re Lukaku, both Chelsea and Swansea have realised that Rom needs closely marking and both did a good job on him. Williams had him in his pocket today. We were linked with him (Williams) before. Shame we didn't get him.
Roger Helm
115 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:03:19
I agree Ian 36, our players are just not that good.

Lukaku, Barry, Baines, Coleman and Delofeu (if fit) would get into any EPL team, but who else? Stones is elegant but can't defend, Jags is small for a CH, Barkley rarely these days scores or assists, FM is new to the league, Mirallas blows hot and cold, Howard is well over the hill, all the others are squad players at best.

We need new owners, a new manager and a reconstruction using the Stones Barkley and Lukaku money.

Oliver Molloy
117 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:03:43
Okay, Colin, Colin and Dave... apologies for getting that wrong, I knew they had beaten us before today, just got the ground wrong.
Craig Mills
118 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:03:52
I have to get this off my chest too – John Stones, awful again today.

Stupid penalty in the last minute against Stoke
Clear penalty – not given – in the last minute against Man City
Poor decision-making today giving away another penalty

Someone needs to tell this kid to stop pissing about with the ball and do the simple things first, he’s starting to cost us as many points as Howard has over the season.

I also don’t know if it’s just me but he seems to have a cockiness about him that’s starting to piss me off!!

Gary Grant
119 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:04:29
Another dire result, another Groundhog day, with the same old flaws in Roberto Martinez’s management there for all to see. The playing of favourites like Howard, irrespective of form. The utter inability to perform the defensive basics. The rigid sticking to 4-2-3-1 irrespective of who we are playing. The maddening devotion to the ’passing game’. And the bigger picture is this: it is costing this club its very future.

Some are berating a ’lacksadaisical’ Stones. I would ask, instead, where is the coaching? Where is the manager who is telling his young player to clear your lines, to perform the basics? Or do we have someone in charge for whom performing two Cruyff-turns in the 6-yard box is a "diamond of English football expressing himself"? Stones may not be the flavour of the month, but the talent is there – he COULD yet be an England captain, an 80-cap rock of the defence. But with good management, not with this inability to iron out the same mistakes, made time and time again.

And this is the issue – with this dire result, Europe is gone out the window. And with it, so too, much more will be gone – all these young players upon whom we are pinning our future. Do you think Stones, Barkley, Deulofeu, Lukaku will stick around this summer when a club who has qualified for the Champions League comes calling? Due to the utter mismanagement of a squad that is our best for 30 years, instead of being in the Top 4 (look, Leicester bloody city are there, don’t tell me we haven’t got the players to be up there) we are anguishing in 12th. This summer, with the exodus of youth, our next 10 years goes with it, all hopes of Champions League qualification, all hopes of ending the ridiculous trophy drought, all hope full stop.

And that is why calling for RM to go, and go now, is not a knee-jerk reaction to yet another bad result, another defensive comedy-show, another inability to keep a clean sheet, another game where we dominate long spells and fail to take away 3 points. It is nothing more than a plea to BK to act now, coolly, and with a level-head, to preserve the future of this club, and the wealth of young talent that we have. They deserve better than this. We deserve better than this.

Go, Roberto, for the love of God, just go.

Terry McLavey
120 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:04:36
Mirallas said last week's draw felt like a defeat! What does this one feel like?

Why can’t we summon up the motivation we showed in the second half in the first? We are always fire fighting!

We need to have a different Everton to turn up on Wednesday, I’m moving the sofa out already!

David Price
121 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:04:49
We made one mistake today, again at the back, gifting sides penalties, is that four now, every comment negative, yes Martinez is blind when it comes to Howard and Stones plays shite with him behind him.

To balance the comments, I’ve not seen one mention of the handball for their second, disgraceful miss from the officials yet again as Geri was clean through. Then to miss three penalty shouts is again ridiculous.

Sorry to piss on the anti Bobby chips but we’re getting a raw deal at the moment. Things will change but not with this keeper. Pienaar was excellent not poor or finished by the way.

Craig Mills
122 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:05:41
Tony Williams – do you mean "saying goodbye" as he is selling... or his ill health?
Colin Glassar
123 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:06:00
Stones was awful today (and I'm a huge admirer) so has he lost his confidence or is this his way of saying, sell me?
John Hammond
124 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:06:09
This playing out from the back has to stop when teams press us high. Half the time it ends up going back to Howard who then hoofs it upfield anyway – just seems completely pointless and is costing us goals in most games.

I’m weirdly not angry. It’s been going on so long I just expect it now...

Al Reddish
125 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:06:11
18 wins in 61 games. 1 win in last 10. First time in 11 years we lose 5 home games for two consecutive seasons. Worst home defense in the League. Only 4 teams won less games this season than us......not good is it?
Roman Sidey
126 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:07:02
Roger, why would Baines get into any other side? He's lucky to be playing for Everton.
John Jones
127 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:07:22
No, Craig, it isn't just you; if he played for Liverpool, I'd want to smash his face in.

What's all these comments about Kenwright and stewards?

Craig Mills
128 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:08:08
About sums it up Al @94, we are heading in a very clear direction – down.
Alexander O'Brien
129 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:08:12
I thought Pienaar was the only one with a football brain today trying to make things happen. Him and Barry were decent. The rest were shite.
Neil Pickering
130 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:08:48
Now is an absolutely ideal time to get rid of the manager and take our time in appointing someone in the summer. We won’t go down, so we could put Duncan in there till May. I could manage this lot and do better than Martinez.

Regardless of whether Duncan can manage, do you think he would allowed what happened today? There would have been players hanging from their dressing room pegs.

Roger Helm
131 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:09:38
David, it was not a clear handball as the distance travelled was short and no movement of the hand to the ball. It might have gone either way. We have only ourselves to blame for the position we are in. Coleman scoring from two feet out might have helped. Luck evens out, as we saw at Man City.
John Parker
132 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:13:09
Sack the useless Spaniard... 6 wins all season, phenomenal!!!
Colin Glassar
133 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:13:30
I hope the boos are still ringing in their ears.
Mark Rimmer
134 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:15:47
It’s good to vent our frustration here and say Martinez out, but I think we all know that that simply will just not happen, and that also applies to when we go out on Wednesday. The major problem is that Martinez thinks he is doing nothing wrong! and Bill is too much of a pussy to do anything about it.

He sans around with an air of confidence that only a totally deluded man would possess! He thinks his time at Wigan was a massive success, If by some miracle we win the league cup, but go down, he’ll think the same about his time here, he’s a mad man. We have a lunatic in charge our club and no way to dispose of him!

Steve Alderson
135 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:15:49
We will NOT win the league cup so the arguments on whether Roberto should stay if we did are irrelevant. Beating City on Wednesday, because that is what we will have to do, and then then the shite in the final is not something that this Everton team is capable of.
Gerard Carey
136 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:17:56
Martin 88, I will have a pint of whatever your on, must be good stuff!!!!!.
Peter Roberts
138 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:18:42
Trying to understand if at any one of Deulofeu's 5 pearlers across the 6-yard box did Rom think "Yeah, I should be in there"... Sadly for all of Rom’s unplayable traits when he is up for it, he can be one seriously lazy uninterested waste of space.

Says a lot, Geri more or less mentioned it in the interview, good for him. Stones? Well I hate to say I told you so but his arrogance stinks.

Steve Brown
140 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:21:07
Martinez cannot organise a defence, nor can his back room team. He consistently plays Howard and Stones despite their being woefully out of form and our set pieces are pathetic unless Funes Mori is involved.

Our home form is shameful full,stop.

I pray Wednesday shows a different approach or this season will turn even more painful very quickly. Who on here really thinks RM is still the man for the job?

Geoff Evans
141 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:21:26
For all those RM supporters out there, who are we blaming this week for this poor excuse of a manager and his over hyped squad of players?
Joe Foster
142 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:22:09
David #91 blaming the ref decisions is a poor way of kidding yourself about this season. The only way things will change is when this idiot has left our club. There will be no thanks for everything you have done Roberto, just don't let the door hit you in arse on your way out.
Darren Hind
145 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:25:16
Jim Hardin

You keep pointing the finger at Stones in an attempt to deflect criticism of your man Howard, it won't wash, Stones needs his arse kicking for playing that ball back, not for playing it, but for playing it to Howard.

I watched it live and I've watched 5-6 times since. The Swansea guy makes up 7/8 yards on Howard. The dopey twat still hasn't realised that you move to the ball... you don't wait for it to get to you!!!

Just like last week, Howard saw the man coming and the arse fell out of him. Gutless, Gutless goalkeeping, Stones should be docked a month's wages for trusting him.

Big Nev must feel like throwing up every time he watches this coward.

Mike Green
146 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:25:44
Stones and Howard’s ’Laurel and Hardy’ act got the ball rolling for us again today. They both need dropping. Stones has great elegance and can stroke the ball about beautifully but half the time looks like he’s in dreamland. Williams, on the other hand is the complete opposite but gave a composite performance on how to defend today, he was excellent.

I dread the thought of us getting through on Wednesday now – no matter how bad they might be imagine what Liverpool will do to us if they get through too...........?

Bill Gall
147 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:26:01
For most of the last season and this, I have been saying that we needed a defensive coach to help Martinez, preferably an Italian one who seem to have defense in their DNA.

I hope he looks at the films today and sees how organized Swansea’s defense was, with a manager who has only been there a week, and has years of experience in the Italian leagues. Let's face it, you have a better chance of winning the Lotto than BK firing Martinez.

Steve Brown
148 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:27:38
Daree, Stones was ENTIRELY to blame for that goal. As he has been for several others this season. He should be dropped for Wednesday, but of course he won't.
Martin O'Sullivan
149 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:28:03
I have never been convinced by Martinez, in large part from hearing him ons Spanish radio spouting specious nonsense as though ex cathedra from the height of the Qigan managerial position.
Roman Sidey
150 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:28:34
To be fair, Mike Green, had some of those crosses from Deulofeu been picked up by a player who gave a fuck, Williams would not have gotten the praise he is getting.
Patrick Murphy
151 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:30:27
Since Everton beat QPR at Goodison last season, Everton have played 23 PL games at Goodison, won 7 Drawn 8 lost 8... not good enough. It highlights that this isn’t a blip – it’s bordering on a crisis.

Away from home isn’t anything to write home about either; we’ve played 22, won 5 drawn 8 and lost 9 during the same timescale. Total of 45 games played, Won 12, Drawn 16 and lost 17 making it a points total of 52 points.

I’d be delighted if we end this season with anything near 50 points.

Jeff Armstrong
152 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:30:31
Where are the Martinez apologists?

There aren’t any, I hardly ever see any posts defending this clown. At least with Moyes, there where plenty of detractors and supporters, I don’t anyone who wants to keep this manager apart from our board.

If anyone offered £25 million for Barkley I reckon 90% of Evertonians so would take it, same with £35 million for Stones, we could rebuild with that money but please not with Martinez at the helm.

I would have Nigel Pearson before this fella, I mean it’s virtually his team who are top of the league, they started their current run about 10 games before the end of last term.

Kim Vivian
153 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:33:13
Er.....Tommy Coleman #21. Did you not notice that was a back pass?
Denis Richardson
154 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:33:13
David 91 - by all means blame the officials for the result today if you want. I guess it was also the ref's fault we managed just 2 shots on target in the whole game as well as conceding the usual two goals.

Officials' decisions are swings and roundabouts over the course of a season. Look at the league table, as the saying goes, it doesn't lie.

Regardless of the result on Weds, I hope the club is sold soon and the new owners see sense and show RM and his back room staff the door.

Mark Tanton
155 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:33:52
I usually have plenty to say. Not today. Too fed up. Sack him. Sack him when we inevitably collapse at Man City.
Darren Hind
156 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:34:15

That's what I said, dock his wages. fancy giving the ball to Howard when a man only has to make up 9 yards.

Howard won't play on Wednesday, so we will get to the cup final. He should have been dropped months ago.

Oliver Molloy
157 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:34:43
I'm NOT defending Stones, but you can see he just does trust Howard, none of our defenders do - it is so obvious.
Every time Howard SHOULD come he stays rooted to his goal line,if he does decide to venture from his goal line 9 times out of 10 he will get that wrong - he offers absolutely nothing and is finished as a top goalie.

The back pass from Stones was poor but Howard can see everything in front of him, he can see Stones looking for him - to give him an option - Howard can see the Swansea player , it's playground stuff and been going on now far too long.

Stones is making mistakes with us that he will not be allowed to make at whatever club he ends up at.
If I was the manager I would drop both of them.
If I was the chairman I would be summoning the incredible one and laying the law down big time.
This group of players are being let down by poor management and coaching.
The fans are being let down by the silence of the Everton board.

Today we had two forced substitutions, but that is no excuse for this performance.

I watched the game on the telly and the atmosphere was eerie, it seemed absolutely flat, can anyone at the game confirm ?

Sean Patton
158 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:35:12
The frustration following this team is like never before it is getting very hard to take and even harder to explain away. More bad defending and terrible refereeing again and throw in the missed sitters by players and injuries after just half an hour it was just painful viewing.
Stewart Lowe
160 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:37:05
I am now chomping at the bit to hear the post match statement from Martinez with all his regular verbal diarrhoea.
Lets see how many times he uses the following words / phrases:
1: Incredible
2: Phenomenal
3: Unlucky.
4: We have to stick together
5: We have to learn from our mistakes
6: Spectacular
7: Unique talent
8: Unbelievable squad.

Did I miss any?
Martinez is as predictable as our results.
I stopped buying into Martinez about 12-14 months ago

Adam Smith
161 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:37:10
What saddens me more than words can express, is that some time ago, almost as soon as he was appointed in fact, I predicted that should we ever part company with Roberto, then we would reappoint Moyes. Now it seems as if the stars are going to align on this nightmare scenario.

We're not doing it under Roberto and Moyes is out of work. If we were run by people with an ounce of vision, we would scour the globe looking for another Potchettino, but no, Moyes managed to hoodwink our board into thinking he did an amazing job, as opposed to a better one than his predecessor. Worse still, many of our fans would feel the same way and would be ecstatic with this.

I predicted this scenario because Evertonians are by nature afraid of change and because Moyes would be way out of his depth at a club like United. I'm now so sad that we'll be clearing space in the trophy cabinet for the annual top eight success story once more. In the era of new money, the next few months will determine if we slowly fade away into Leedsesque obscurity, or if we at least dream big. Will be watching through my fingers to see what the club do.

Peter Cummings
162 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:37:28
Once we lost Besic and Mirallas and with Jags being 'rested' I sensed we would be in trouble if the Swans put us under pressure us knowing of our defensive frailties and their dodgy league position which meant a 'must win' situation for them as well.

The Stones/Howard blunder plus the horrible deflection to put them in front only confirmed the feeling of 'here we go again' as we failed to make any impression as we came up against the usual mass defensive wall which we never seem to cope with ,time and again, aided and abetted by an inept 'official' who chose not to see two clear hand balls and both Lukaku and Barry being hauled down in their area at set pieces.

Predictably we put more pressure on in the second half but despite several excellenf crosses into the area by a frustrated MOM Delboy no one,Lukaku included, could get near compounded by the last second miss by Coleman.
Being realistic we will need a miracle to get past City this week as Europe is out of the question as we continue to gift games on this disastrous scale, which no one in charge seems able to answer

Mike Green
163 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:37:31
Patrick - now they are frightening statistics......
Si Turner
164 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:38:18
Just got back from the match. Awful defending has cost us the game again.

Steve (115) you are spot on. Stones was to blame. Worst game I have seen him play in the blue shirt and that has nothing to do with Howard.

Number of questions to ask;

Why does Robles never play ahead of Howard?
Why was he playing a left footed Lb at Rb?
Why did he bring a full back on when we are chasing a game whilst we had a winger and striker on the bench?
Why did we not change shape for the ladt 20 minutes when it was clear they were throwing every man behind the ball?
Why has he sold Naismith with no replacement ready for this busy period of games?

The list could go on.....

John Austin
165 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:38:21
Has the demented one given his post match comments yet? Havn't seen anything on the BBC site. He'll blame the officials again no doubt - and the fact that they only played 5 minutes extra time. But the players showed magnificent character ......
Bill Gall
166 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:40:15
Stewart # 125 you forgot to mention the tremendous character we have in our players.
David Price
167 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:41:09
Just stating things in my opinion. We got a raw deal today but do agree we didn't help ourselves as a lethal combination of the two.
Martin, my cousin in Barcelona tends to agree.
David Price
168 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:41:09
Just stating things in my opinion. We got a raw deal today but do agree we didn't help ourselves as a lethal combination of the two.
Martin, my cousin in Barcelona tends to agree.
Will Firstbrook
170 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:41:57
And yet, not so shocking a result given how the season is progressing (or regressing)
Jim Hardin
171 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:42:07
Wrong as usual. Stones was played the ball with plenty of time to make a pass. He stood on it and then faked, yes faked, a pass to the keeper, who then takes a step back to his post. Stones then plays a ball to Howard which the forward anticipated and was moving for before Stones even let it go. Why didn't Stones see that if Howard was supposed to.

Take your own advice and stop blaming the keeper to keep from having to criticize your precious John Stones. If my defender did that to me in a game, I would be in his face right on the pitch and at halftime. Howard is a GK not Superman and cannot clean up every mess that Stones and the disorganized defense create.

Barry Jones
172 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:43:19
Darren (112) totally agree with you about Howard. Every player (even a goalkeeper) has to come to meet a pass, or you get beaten to the ball. Howard the plonker just stood there and that made the pass from Stones look way worse than it was. Also, why is Howard almost lying down for the second goal. Had he stayed tall he would have saved that one easily.

Fabianski, in contrast was excellent and bravely came for every cross. I thought that Del was great today and his crosses were out of this world. How we did not get on the end of two or three of them is beyond me (and beyond them too).

Paul Tran
173 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:43:54
I'll add to your point, Darren, by noticing Barkley continually waiting for the ball to come to him. Do they not know there's another team on the pitch?

A hospital ball by Stones followed by a complete lack of anticipation by Howard, who compounded his snail-like movement by staying on his feet and tackling, instead of going down and using his hands for a change. A poor keeper who keeps losing us points.

Barry was superb today. He would have been great in Moyes' team, methinks. Deufelou put five great balls into the box, begging to be buried in the net. No-one dived in, no-one gambled. That sums up the lack of purpose and drive that sets us apart from most of the league.

We need a better performance on Wednesday, or Martinez's reign will last as long as a successful due diligence takes.

Andy Crooks
174 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:45:20
Darren, I hate seeing the word coward used to describe any of our players. However, I never thought Howard had much nerve and any that he had has gone.He is beyond useless and his continued selection is in itself confirmation that we have the shittest coach in our history. This man will relegate us and he will fuck off like the coward he is and apply his dead philosophy to destroy another club.No other club would tolerate his total fucking ineptitude for as long as we have.
Kim Vivian
175 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:50:33
Martin O'Sullivan...where are you?
Eddie Dunn
176 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:51:02
Jim, it was not of howard's making but he didn't have to leave a foot on Ayew, who was heading out of play.
Andy Crooks
177 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:52:00
Adam, # 129, we don't need to scour the globe.Stick a pin in the league tables and offer the coach of the club the job. Whoever it is will be an improvement on relegation Roberto.
Richard Lyons
178 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:54:37
Oh God I hate Everton. Why did my dad do this to me?
And why doesn't Martinez resign? It would be the decent thing to do.
Eddie Dunn
179 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:54:42
Eddie Howe would be my choice.
Simon Evans
180 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:54:48
I agree with most of what's being said, he's had nearly 3 years and we are going backwards as a club. I truly do believe we have one of the best teams outside of the traditional top 4 or 5 teams and yet we are nowhere near it.

Watford, Leicester, Southampton – all relative recent promotions to the Premier League – are outperforming us. We will end up like Aston Villa unless things change. They lost all their best players and have never recovered.

Stewart Lowe
181 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:54:56
Both Kenwright and Martinez need to scour these websites and take a lot of time to read the thoughts of all us fans and because as fans we aren't stupid and apart from a few wild and far off the mark comments, a lot of people on here make a lot of sense.

I said it in a previous comment but that is me done now with Everton as someone who has supported them for 32 years. I will not go to or watch another game until Martinez has gone.

Peter Carpenter
183 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:55:41
Out now.
Charles Mctegart
184 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:56:43
If this is the best squad since Dixie Dean why are we being out thought and out played by all sorts of mediocre rubbish.

Next season without 150 mill of our players, who will be off to pastures new, for certain! we will be able to "B***** About" in the relegation zone instead of mid table as at present.

Is it me??? .......or was Lukaku on his own playing up front with back to goal with at least two Swansea defenders for company...all afternoon! Waiting for the ball to arrive after it had been along the back four up the wings down the wings across the back four up the wings again! whilst Everton kindly waited for all the Swansea players to get into the right defensive positions. Once we were happy that they were happy .... we played the ball to Lukaku.

"We're" only half a football team compared to the boys in blue of a few years ago.

It is time for a painful executive decision from the top of the organisation. One we haven’t done for about 10 years!!

Darren Hind
185 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:56:50
Jim Hardin.

How am I wrong to say Stones should be docked a months wages ? I would not trust your boy to put the garbage out, why would stones trust him to move his feet or show some courage.

Ill accept a lot of things, lack of courage isn't one of them.

If the words greatest clubs and coaches had the option to sign your hero, or Stones tomorrow, they would bid 50m for one, but would not bid 50quid for the other . . see if you can figure out which way around

Adam Smith
186 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:57:11
Andy #146 - Would it though? Where are all the other coaches we were linked with last time? Or the ones on many fans' wish lists? All of them doing fuck all actually!

We DO need to scour the globe thoroughly for a SUITABLE replacement to take us forward. Not another dour Davey, nor Moyes himself.

Andy Meighan
187 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:57:38
John (#81) – where are you coming from with a statement like "get Ferguson in and have Unsworth and Royle assisting him"? What credentials has Ferguson got to manage a club like Everton?

In case it's escaped your notice, he's part of the coaching staff currently in charge of running the current trainwreck – and look how that's turning out!

Adam Smith
189 Posted 24/01/2016 at 16:59:43
Sorry Andy, you've moved to #150 since I started typing!
Eddie Dunn
190 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:01:12
For all of those "Believers" who think that we will beat City on wednesday, and all will be forgiven. Mark my words, we have no chance, especially without Besic. If Macca is rushed back, he will be off the pace and likely to get injured again, so we are lacking cover. Martinez will not play so open a formation as today, but our only hope is that del has a stormer and Lukaku wakes up and realises he needs to break sweat.
Anyway, we will be found out, and the shit will start to hit the fan.
Martinez out!
Matt Muzi
191 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:01:29
Just got back from the game, here's my points:

1. Why is Howard in goal?
2. Stones was so nonchalant today he made my blood boil.
3. Plan B? Do we practice any other tactics? Clearly NO!
4. Defending? You'd of thought after our recent results we'd of focused on our defence, again clearly NO!
5. Why is there always a great big hole in the centre of the park where none of our players dare venture, but today Cork & Briton were able to play freely.

If Moyes had the players at his disposal that Martinez has, what do you think the comments on here would be, (I'm no great admirer of Moyes before anyone thinks it).

Jim Hillier
192 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:01:29
I've defended Martinez plenty of times on the Match Day Forum but today was dire. This is an awful run of form, a sackable run of form. Won't happen, though. We all know that.
Darren Hind
193 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:02:17
Paul T

Agree about Barkley, but that was not a hospital ball by Stones, have another look it was 90-10 in favour of Howard.

Sometimes its about desire and Bravery, Howard comes up short on both counts . .He will cost Martinez his job

Tony Hill
194 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:02:36
Oliver (126), the atmosphere was indeed very flat but then it nearly always is now. For the first time this season, I thought there was a real sense that the players, or some of them, were not engaged properly. Notably that applies to Lukaku, I'm afraid, who may already be half out of the door. Stones played like a prat and I do wonder about whether he's also effectively thinking about his move.

Martinez is sucking the lifeblood out of this team and simply has to go. That said, I suspect there are major issues behind the scenes at the moment with ownership of the club, so God knows what will be happening.

Mike Corcoran
195 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:03:09
Just back from the game. Hearing Del got MOTM, tv mustn't have showed how goosed he was after half time, he looked like he had a stitch for the last half hour and spent a good while hugging the touch line near the half way line gasping like a granny who's just run for the bus. Give him his due though he kept getting involved but I just wonder how great he would be if he had stamina. Time to give Stones a few weeks on the bench, he looks mentally drained, an accident waiting to happen. Felt a lot of players were hiding today, deliberately staying out of clear sight in case the man on the ball passed to them. Not good.
Colin Glassar
196 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:03:47
Is Howard's uselessness down to the fact that he probably didn't play football (soccer) as a kid? I mean, any kid who wants to be a goalie knows that he's going to have to be brave.

This shithouse, who played basketball as a kid, doesn't have a clue about what a goalie should do and seems to think football is a non-contact sport (like basketball). He doesn't know when to come out, or stay, his distribution is pathetic, his decision making is even worse. He exudes uncertainty and apart from being a decent shot stopper he doesn't seem to have learnt a thing during his time in the prem.

One last thing. What do we do before games? Watch a fucking documentary on Animal Planet? They seem to come out with no plan, attitude or desire in some games. Del made reference to this but he blamed the players for being shit. Really Gerri? Does the manager really fire them up only for them to shit their pants once the game starts? If so that is astounding.

Kunal Desai
198 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:06:58
7 more points to see out the season and then sack the clown.
Julian Exshaw
199 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:07:28
I have always defended RM, my opinions based on the excellent first season and a style of football that is as good as any we've seen for years. Results are now really going against him and it needs sorting out. One thing I will say in his defense though is that he/Everton/us have had no luck whatsoever this season. We've had deflections, bad referess and a lot of injuries. Had Besic not hit the post, had the referee blown for full time last week, had the linesman ....etc etc. I like RM and I think his football philosophy is for the good for the game, if not necessarily for our Everton right now.
Peter Carpenter
200 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:08:15
Kunal, why wait? Do it now.
Stewart Lowe
201 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:08:27
How has this team only won 6 league games from 23? I just don't get it??

And 3 of those 6 wins came against the current bottom 3 clubs of Villa, Sunderland and Newcastle.

Our team is full of Internationals from all over the world. Lukaku, Baines, Coleman, Stones, Barkley, Deulefeu, McCarthy are all £20m+ players.

It makes no sense. How has Mourinho lost his job and Martinez has not?

Eddie Dunn
202 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:09:45
Julian- All teams have bad luck, it is no coincidence that we don't win 4-3, we always manage to lose or draw.
Paul Tran
203 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:10:17
Darren, he dummied, then rolled the ball like a snooker player's safety shot. That said, a decent keeper would have anticipated the mistake and snuffed it out. You're right about his lack of courage and about him costing Martinez his job. A man with poor judgement picking a man with very poor judgement.

Billy Wade
204 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:10:39
Please Bill, get rid of Martinez now & the rest of his Wigan cronies... useless.
Jim Hardin
205 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:11:01
Time for GK 101 on passes to your keeper from below your 18 with the player with the ball a center back (not fullback) forced wide. Assume that that player (don't want to use Stones for you sensitive TWs) with an opposing player in front of him closing him and another player topside of the goalkeeper, within 8-10 yards all of which are inside the 18.

If the keeper comes out to the side and calls for it you can then play it quickly. The problem is the keeper has no one to pass it to without putting it square across the box to the blindside and is likely going to have to kick it long and/or away from a deeper positon than the original passer.

If the keeper doesn't call for it and is not moving outside his posts, then that player, if no other options exist up the field, kicks it up and out near midfield. I don't let my U14s play the ball to the keeper in that situation as he then is likely to be closed by the player in front of him or at least be put under pressure and have to kick from a worse position than where the ball is originally.

And FFS, you don't fake a pass to the keeper which gets the player standing off of the keeper moving towards him and then send the pass to the keeper who has taken a step back or at lest is now flat-footed not expecting the pass, because you now have given the opposing player a headstart.

A back pass to the keeper or playing into the keeper should never result in the keeper being put in a worse position with worse options than the player with the ball originally. Stone received the ball facing up the field for goodness sake.

Where exactly was Howard supposed to go if he had won the ball? Stones wasn't open as he still had a player on him and Howard was moving away from his goal so couldn't have played it to the other side? If he pulls up then he is one v one with the opposing player and the goal is left open, so because of the pass from Stones, he has to come and get the ball or the man or both. Can only imagine the criticism if he had stayed on his line and a goal resulted. Course Stones could have slid in for another deflected goal I guess.

Andy, Darren, Paul, and others, please tell me where I am wrong so I can start rewriting my training sessions for my GKs and myself in my own games?

Peter Carpenter
206 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:12:57
Stones has been passing it back to Howard just like that all season. Howard took a half step back, allowing Ayew a chance. Even then, Howard could have just let him run the ball out of play. The guy should have been put out of his misery ages ago. He's finished. A manager who cannot recognise that, over a period of 12 months,should not be doing the job.
Tony Hill
207 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:12:58
I don't think that relegation's a realistic fear, thank goodness (though I don't think we should be complacent on 29 points after that debacle today). But it does worry me enormously that if Lukaku becomes uninterested then we are going to struggle for goals, and struggle badly.

I hope that the ownership thing gets done very quickly indeed, if it's going to happen at all, not least because I think we need to buy this month and we only have 6/7 days left.

Kunal Desai
208 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:13:18
Can't see a decent manager coming through midway through a campaign unless it's someone from within that takes over in the interim.
I've always maintained that the root of the problems at this club should be eradicated before the club moves forward. This board needs to clear off ASAP. How long are our fans going to put up with shit served up from this board season after season?
Colin Glassar
209 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:13:18
Julian, as you well know I also want him to succeed and play the beautiful game but when you keep getting caught out time and time again by the same basic mistakes then you have to wonder if he will ever learn.
Eddie Dunn
210 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:13:29
Jim, once again - Golden bollocks was wrong to play the ball so late...Howard was also at fault for stupidly kicking a player on his way into the Street end!
Joe O'Brien
211 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:14:28
Awful display. Have also defended RM but have lost patience with him. Geart going forward but cannot defend the goal at all. He's wrecking the best squad we've had in years. This form is relagation material.
Ok if he went, even tho he probably will be given til the end of the season, who could replace him? Promote Unsy with big Dunc as his no 2? It could be great or awful. .
On a separate note, anyone hearing any noise on the supposed takeover?
Andy Meighan
212 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:16:41
Just back from game and after listening to the phone-in and hearing the texts sent on and the posts on here, I think we are all of the same mind. Martinez is so far out of his depth it's untrue.

The truly sad thing is there's not an earthly he will lose his job. He's got the safest post in the game but obviously it's a results business and ours just aren't good enough... so why are our board failing to act? Are they going to wait until we actually slip into the bottom three because its looking that way.

As others have rightly stated, we are in a dogfight; make no mistake, our results will tell you that. Anyone thinking he'll get out of jail by winning the League Cup are seriously deluded.

If we were to get through, big ask, I know, and THEY got through... does any single Evertonian honestly think we'd beat them in the final? We'd piss ourselves as we always do against them.

My own view is Man City will beat us comfortably; I can't see us getting anything there. Will the board act then? No. Will the board act if we struggle against Carlisle? No. This'll be allowed to go on. Any other board would have acted last season, and gone and got Bilic – look what he's doing now! No, Kenwright and Co think they've got some sort of footballing visionary.... I've got news for them – they haven't. We are in big big trouble and the worry is its being allowed to go on. These are worrying times indeed...

Jim Hardin
216 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:17:32
Paul and others a little more GK 101,

On a back pass or play in pass from your own player into the box, the GK cannot use his hands so he has to win the ball with his feet or take the player out or both. I didn't answer the question about why he didn't use his hands as I assumed everyone knew that.

Roger Helm
217 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:17:41
What exactly does big Dunc actually do? He just seems to sit there saying nothing and looking miserable. Which he is entitled to do but he could try to hide it.

Supporting Everton and doing a dry January is not doing my mental health good at all.

Stewart Lowe
218 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:17:55
Don't be surprised if McCarthy, Deulefeu, Lukaku, Coleman, Stones, Barklay and Baines all had secret clauses in their contracts that they could all move on if we missed out on the Champions League. Martinez will have sold them the dream as he did with us fans.
Christy Ring
219 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:18:17
Enough is enough. Martinez won't change, he's pig headed and arrogant. He won't drop Howard, who should have been replaced last summer. His game plan of playing out from the back, is too slow and pedestrian, and so predictable, and coasting us big time.
He has to be replaced now.
Christopher Marston
220 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:18:17
I just don't get it. Any other team would've sacked their manager by now. Why are we different? I just don't get it?
Eddie Dunn
221 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:18:37
What else can Big D do ?
Craig Mills
222 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:18:40
What worries me is that Everton are afraid to make a decision on Martinez - how long does he get?? our league form from last season and this so far have been very poor, last year we had the Europa league as an excuse, this year no Europe but we are in a worse position than where we finished last year!!
We underniably have a very talented squad, and one that we will not have next year as it's pretty clear our top players will not be with us next season, so who do you give the best part of 100m from the sales of Lukaku and Stones to rebuild our club - Martinez surely isn't the man
James Potter
223 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:18:59
BBC Sport - Everton 1-2 Swansea: Toffees 'hurting' themselves - Martinez
Liam Reilly
224 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:19:06
Howard couldn't have used his hands for the backpass from Stones, but he could've used his feet to get closer to the ball.

I think we take the money for Stones. He may look good on the ball but fuck me, Everton is not learning curve for Chelsea. He needs to be told safety first. Always..

Christopher Marston
225 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:20:15
In fact, lesser teams would've gotten rid by now. I still don't get it and I really don't like feeling this angry that our board don't care as much as I do.
Kase Chow
226 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:20:37
Obvs Everton aren't gonna sack RM

Obvs - wake up chaps and smell the coffee. Why would they?

They'd have to pay off his contract and what's the point (from their perspective) if we're not in a relegation battle

We'll be safe so he'll be safe. That's it

James Potter
227 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:21:25
Talks a load of bollocks as usual, apparently we showed great quality in the second half!? Our performances and quality this season is not reflected in our results, it's bollocks the table doesn't lie.
Julian Exshaw
228 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:23:04
I agree Colin. I still think though that he has been victim of some shocking decisions. What frustrates me, and all of us I'm sure, is that he has put together a damn good team. We remember how the League Cup turned the great HK's fortunes around. Here's hoping Wednesday's game against City does the same, as unlikely as it appears now.
Tony Rutherford
229 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:24:38
Just got home from the game and absolutely gutted!

The problem is it's like deja view at every home game!

Start slow, let the other team get confidence and go behind. Chase the game get back into it and more poor defensive play means we go in at half time behind.

Second half slow tempo to start again, by 60 minutes 2 or 3 of the players look absolutely knackered. (I'd love to know what they do in training)

65-75 minutes like for like replacement , slight build up before falling short again!

I don't know what Martinez says in the pre-Match and half time talk but it isn't working.

We gave a poor team confidence today and didn't put them under anywhere near enough pressure. I absolutely hate it when there is no pressure on the ball!

I want players who play crap to be told their crap and get their bloody finger out! Not be told they are magnificent and are only gonna get better. The stats don't lie.....and its Roberto out I'm afraid.

Thanks for the rollercoaster but some of those players won't be here in the summer and I wouldn't trust him with the cash!

Sorry for the rant but that was a lacklustre performance too far!

Kevin Dale
230 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:25:11
Whether we like it or not we are now entering a relegation battle, we have to accept our manager is not up to the standard required to manage successfully in the Premier League, sad but true!

Today probably the worst first half of football I have seen Everton play at Goodison for many a year!!

Paul Hewitt
231 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:25:47
Don’t think I can take much more of this total shambles. Forget Wednesday, he needs to go NOW. Who will take over?

For now Joe Royle would do till the end of the season. Week after week, we hear the same thing "We need to learn from our mistakes"... We NEVER do.

Mark Frere
232 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:26:10
I really cant be arsed reading through this thread or commenting on yet another shambolic display of defending.

I'm afraid all sense of hope is gone until Martinez is sacked. The depressing thing is, we all know that ain't going to happen! To think a World Class manager like Marcelo Bielsa is sat with his feet up at the moment. I guess our board only do lazy appointments though.

Tony Hill
233 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:26:55
Julian (207), that was not a damned good team today or anything like one. Good teams do not systematically fail to meet the mark. This has been going on now since the end of 2013-14 in truth and it has nothing to do with bad luck.
Gerard Carey
234 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:27:04
Only one answer, new owners please. The sooner the better. Bill's time is up as is our manager's. Imagine new owners, money to spend, get in The Special One!!!!, and all our young players would stay on. Only a dream though!!.
Richard,152, thats just what my son said to me!!.
Christopher Dover
235 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:27:14
For the first time in many many years I bought a season ticket. I will go to the next home game but only because I have paid for it.

I will turn up, but will Everton? It seems that just about every game we start off so slow, it takes at least. Fifteen minutes before they wake up and usually when the opposition has scored.

John Stones must be reading his own reviews by the ones who love him, why when he gets the ball does he stop look and wait until he is tracked so he can do a couple of twirls then pass back?

Swansea chased and harried, Everton played statues, I thought Baines was the only one in the first half who seemed to have the urgency to go forward.

So many today did not turn up, I would exclude Barry in that remark, is RM telling the team to stay in there own half to stop conceding goals? If he is it is not working.

If Everton play twice as well on Wednesday they will still lose three nil, I like many others do not like to call the manager but he has had time, money and the players to turn the season into a good one, not the disjointed, disinterested team he is manager off at present.

Please go and give someone else a chance, the only thing you will achieve is a big payday for the club when the players exit in summer.

Paul Tran
236 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:27:54
Jim, I'll take your point regarding not being able to handle a backpass. Hands up for that.

I'll stand by my argument that Howard lacks courage, doesn't command his area and back four like a decent keeper should and has cost us many points in the past two years. He's needed replacing for a while and this negligence is costing us.

Martinez's job is safe.....unless new owners come in. They probably already know who they want. I'd love to see those books!

John Keating
237 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:28:08
There was a goal kick for us in the first half which Howard played short to Stones who had a man on.

Stones was forced to take it in the area and force the kick to be retaken.

This shit sums us up. In Martinez' first season he insisted we played this way and we got pressed and caught out numerous times.

We are still fucking about at the back.

Sometimes we have to hoof it and clear the lines.

This go white cannot change

Matty McDaid
238 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:29:54
Same old Martinez. We did so well in his first season because we had the perfect balance. The Moyes drilled defensive mentality set loose by Martinez and his attacking ideologies, everyone was waxing lyrical about the new Everton. Season two, the idea of defending is slowly but surely creeping out.

Season three the idea of even being able to defend has gone. Bournemouth, Stoke, Chelsea. Does anyone feel comfortable when we’re in the lead in the 90th minute nevermind the 80th?! Martinez does not know how to set up a defensive unit nor do his senior coaching staff. The only way he will change it is to bring in someone similar to Steve Bould at Arsenal. If he doesn’t it’s only a matter of time.

We go out of the League Cup then it's season over (bar an unlikely FA Cup run) and does he get anymore time? The talent in the squad is class going forward but we need to learn the basics of how to defend.

John Keating
239 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:30:13
Bollocks to this predictive text

This gobshite cannot change

You know who I mean

Andrew Presly
240 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:30:18
Adam Smith (126) completely agree. That is the Everton way. Only a takeover will prevent Moyes returning, having been sacked twice in two years out there in the real world, to guide us to another decade of 7th place finishes.

Parking that to one side for now, this horrific result pretty much finished our league season. There is no suggestion this team can put a run of wins together to even challenge for the Europa places never mind top four.

Wednesday is now the be all and end all. If Martinez makes some ruthless changes for that game and we somehow get through, coupled with some positive intent in the transfer market before the window closes then I'd suggest it's better for all that we hold off on deciding his future until the summer.

I would have been happy to give him another few years to put his squad in place but his insistence on keeping Howard in is now a deal breaker for me. It's unacceptable now and he should be fired if he ever starts him again. I felt this about 3 months ago.

Anyway we all know nothing will change but I am still in the pro Bobby camp for what it's worth, just. On to Wednesday and hopefully the game of our season.

Roman Sidey
241 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:31:06
I think the Stones-Howard debate epitomises the modern culture of polarisation. It seems in every debate it has to be one or the other.

I've seen the pass a few times, and both of them need an uppercut. Stones needs to stop messing about with the ball and not give such pressurised passes to teammates, and Howard should have either gone all out to the ball or seen that the attacker was going into touch.

Howard also needs to be more of a leader from the back, something which has been lacking in his game since Moyes left. He should be yelling his lungs out at Stones, directing him and giving him an absolute mouthful when he screws up. Instead you can see him just watching quietly, not organising his back four at all.


Ajay Gopal
242 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:34:08
OK, I am going to be brave and go against popular opinion at this time.

The 1st half was poor, I admit, but understandable when 2 of the players who almost everyone here was baying for to start, had to be replaced wishing the 1st 25 minutes. You can't legislate for something like the poor back pass by Stones and Howard's hesitation to come for the ball, but okay Martinez has stuck his neck out over Howard/Stones so fair enough - Martinez has to take responsibility for that goal. I also agree that we were lucky to get the equaliser (deflection off a defender takes the ball into the net). The 2nd goal though was a combination of poor refereeing and plain bad luck. So, on the balance, yes Swansea deserved to be 1 goal up at half time.
2nd half: it was all one way, but things just didn't fall in place - it was one of those days. Coleman will have nightmares about his miss for months.
To conclude, we deserved to get 1 point out this game, not more, and that is not acceptable at home against relegation candidates.
We have thrown away another season after being in a decent position mid-way through the season.
I may be alone but I wouldn't write off Martinez yet - he has set-up an exciting team, but where he has erred is in thinking that that would be enough to start winning. He needs to go back to the drawing board and build some steel in the team. Howard will be eased out at the end of the season surely, it is obvious Stones is still not mentally strong enough - Jags should be part of the CB pairing to bring in some solidity and calm head, it should be clear now to everyone why Martinez rates McCarthy so highly (just look at the results after McCarthy got injured, needs no further explanation), Lukaku, Barkley and Deulofeu while being individually exciting, need some experience and calm heads around - dare I say it, guys like Kone, Osman, Barry, Pienaar to make them play their game. At the end of the day, the young talent that we have got us all very excited, but it is obvious that they are a long way from being the finished goods. The tragedy for Martinez and Everton is that he might be building up the talent for someone else to enjoy before they deliver for Everton.

Billy Wade
243 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:36:09
If anyone heard Bill Kenwright on Radio 2 over Xmas, they would know there is no chance of getting rid of the clown.
Dave Williams
244 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:36:46
I have stuck by Roberto so far but today was one too many. I cannot see any sign of the defensive problems being addressed let alone resolved and the lack of energy and bite is disturbing. One win from ten is relegation form and one team tends to slide alarmingly every year around now- please god it's not us.

Our home form is dreadful and I am pleased I live too far away to be subjected to this every fortnight- at least I can turn off Sky!

Offer it to Jose and use the Naismith money. Even Rafa would be preferable to this as he knows how to organise a defence and with the players we have we should be an attractive proposition for an ambitious manager.

I had hoped Roberto could turn this around but there are no signs and things really will start to slide big-time if this is not addressed quickly now.

Peter McCann
245 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:42:00
When I saw the line-up, I was pleased with the attacking options. Obviously Besic and Mirallas going off didn’t help matters.

I remember Martinez's first season and the home match with Newcastle early in the season; in the first half we were sensational... I have always held onto a belief that he will turn it round, but not now.

I coach Under-11s and everything that Everton do along the back line is what I tell them never to do. It’s pathetic. Even with a few minutes to go, we are slowly slowly passing the ball with no urgency to get the ball forward.

I am old enough to remember the '70s when, if everything else failed, we would send Mick Lyons up front to try and grab a goal. Awful to watch but goddamit at least there was a sense of urgency which this current team never shows.

Hate to say it, Roberto, but it really is time to go.

Jim Bennings
246 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:42:09
Why was the coach Duncan Ferguson not murdering them in the dressing room at HT?

Instead he was doing keepy-uppies and laughing and joking with the subs on the pitch!!

Get the man in the dressing room and motivate them

Roger Helm
247 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:43:47
Martinez' record

Swansea 1st, 8th
Wigan 16th,15th,16th,18th (relegated)
Everton 5th,11th, bottom half probably

The man hasn't improved a club for ten years now. He needs to go or we may go down next season.

Karl Meighan
248 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:43:55
Still no talk of getting back to basics, concede no goals lose no games, this clown will never learn. Defenders who don't do basics are a recipe for disaster.

Goodison was once a hard place to come and get a result not any more, there was a time when anything you got at Goodison had to be earned, well drilled organised and hard to beat thats what we should be trying to get back to. Having to score 3 times a game, we wont win many games of football playing that way.

Dean Richardson
249 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:44:25
If I have to hear one more time that we "lacked intensity" I swear that I will need a new laptop soon after. For a manager to come out with the same lame excuses week-in, week-out is wearing thin.

Cleverley put a shift in today, as did Barry and Deulofeu. The rest were not at it. Even in the last 5 minutes we get the same sidewards and backwards passes... the sort most teams try when they need to defend a lead.

Stones looks sulky as well as cocky, but Howard took a glimpse at Ayew, yet still did not react quickly enough. Great servant, but too arrogant by far... and too slow.

I feel sorry for the fans who paid to see this at Goodison today. We are stuck with a Manager who refuses to say..."Yeah, sorry fans, but we fucked up today."

Colin Glassar
250 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:45:02
Good, thoughtful post Ajay. I also hink Macca has been a huge loss. He's not easy on the eye, neither is he a creative force but by god can he close down opponents.

As for another manager inheriting these players well it happened to Billy Bingham. He bought a few class players but didn't get the best out of them. Gordon Lee did.

Mark Rimmer
251 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:45:22
Martinez saying the 6 remaining home games are vital. Vital to avoid relegation maybe??
Patrick Murphy
252 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:46:45
In the last 45 Premier League fixtures we have scored 60 and conceded 61, won 13 drawn 16 and lost 16 gaining 55 points in the processs. A points per game average of 1.22 not good enough for a team with lofty ambitions.
Tom Evans
253 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:46:59
Dave, your observation that one team goes into a nosedive that cannot be halted is one that I too, have been fearing that we will be that team.
I have been around for too long and seen it happen to others and I am not that daft to believe it won't happen to us. The real frightening thing is that this will be the worst season to drop out of the Prem.
Niall McIlhone
254 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:48:02
Jeff @127,good shout: Pearson is his own man , and he got a tune out of defenders like Wes Morgan who had been under performing for a long time to pull Leicester out of a very deep ditch.I was at Walter Smith's last game on that fateful day up at Middlesbrough, , and I saw an Everton team merely " going through the motions", and watching today, I had very similar feelings.In that case, however, Walter was sacked the day after.Our players are serially under performing,home games are becoming an even bigger challenge as some of our players cannot cope with the vitriol that comes their way from the stands when they make mistakes. If it were not for the excellent form of a rejuvinated Gareth Barry , we would be in even more disarray. I'm sorry but whether we get through on Wednesday or not, I think Roberto needs to go on Thursday, and we need to see this woeful season out with a steady hand on the wheel.
Alan Bodell
255 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:50:04
Just look at the space we let the opponents have every fucking game then look at the space we have in possession every fucking game.
Martinez you idiot, they all have you sussed and have done since last season - WE DO NOT HAVE BARCELONA PLAYERS, apologies for the big letters.
Paul Andrews
256 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:51:34
The £40 -50 million fee for John Stones will not be available in the summer if he continues to show the defensive naivety he is currently showing. He has no appreciation of the space he leaves, not a great awareness of runs made off him, and has no natural defensive ability.

I would take the money in this window if possible.

Trevor Peers
257 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:52:01
Looking back to last November, a lot of us warned then, that a really bad run in the premiership might be on the cards, just like last season.

The optimists claimed that it could not happen, Roberto had learned the secrets of defending, all would be well, his 5 year plan was to revolutionize the clubs fortune's, if we just had patience.

After going to today's game, how hollow those claims seem now. I was disgusted with the lack of organization and game planning, it was rank amateurish, a hallmark of this manager's time here. Yet worse is to follow before we finally see the back of him, mark my words.

Bill Gall
258 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:53:27
Funny thing is this manager is supposed to have a worst record than one of our former managers W.Smith who was fired .Don't know what our gate attendance was today but I think we will start getting gates below 30,000 and that may mean the powers that be might take notice of what a shambles the supporters are paying to watch.
David Barks
259 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:55:38
After the next round of fixtures we could very likely be behind Chelsea and West Brom, down in 14th. Seriously, how far down the table would it take to make a change? I honestly don't think this board would sack the manager regardless of where we finish. Even if there was a total and complete collapse I don't think they'd sack him.

The sad thing is that if this was happening at any of the clubs we strive to compete with the supporters would be demanding the change. There would be marches, there would be signs throughout the stadium, the call in shows would be bombarded with supporters.

Spurs would never accept it. Liverpool would never accept it. Chelsea sacked Mourinho.

West Ham said safety was not enough and sent Allardyce packing for this season. But Everton, we're not respected by the press and the footballing world because we don't respect ourselves. We don't demand better, so we won't get it. We promoted a relegated manager to be our manager. Only a lower tier club would do such a thing.

John Aldridge
260 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:57:05
So Chelsea now just a point behind us - after the disastrous season they had. Just shows what a change at the top can do for a team. Such a shame our board don't give a toss about the club.
John Paul McGurk
261 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:58:45
It doesn't help when the crowd get on the players backs...we should support through good and bad times
Peter Carpenter
262 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:58:48
Ajay, 218, it's not what he has done that is the problem, it's what he fails to do. The goalkeeper should have been eased out 12 months ago. The defence has to improve, it hasn't - these faults have been there for some time. We are easy to play against. We don't do the ugly side of the game. He shows no sign of recognising the problems, content that attacking quality will count. He is only doing half a job. Get rid of him now. There must be a queue of good coaches who would love to work with the talent he has at his disposal right now.
Darren Hind
263 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:58:56
Jim Hardin

I will try - once more - to explain to you what a liability your boy is.

Roberto Martinez wants his team to play out from the back - with me so far ?
Now, to play out from the back, you need to be brave and you need to be able trust your fellow defenders ( including your Keeper - Still with me ?

When you play such a game the rewards can be high, but so are the risks, you need everyone wide awake.

The last thing you need . .the very last thing you need, when you are playing this type of football is for your goalie to develop sleep apnoea, You want to know that he can deal with a pass when you play it. You expect that HE is expecting it . . . The ball from Stones (who was a cockey bastard all afternoon) was not fantastic, but is was routine fr any keeper and I'd have been seriously disappointed with my missus if she couldnt have dealt with this one.

You want advise on training your goalkeepers ? stop it, stop it right now

David Edwards
264 Posted 24/01/2016 at 17:59:17
Well over a year of this inconsistency at best, and downright dreadful play at worst. Looking at our record over this 12/13-month period, it is abysmal! No other manager would be still in a job, especially with the recent league run. It seems like every time he must be getting the boot, even from Bill, something comes up to give him a stay of execution. The cup runs are playing that role at present – and while I am hoping for our Wembley trip with all my heart – if Wednesday’s result goes against us, it might just be a consolation that one of Roberto’s supporting pillars is removed.

The manager must take the flak for his tactics, selections, substitutions, motivational skills and PR bullshit - but I think the players need to take much of the blame for performances like today’s. Too many are believing their own publicity and press valuations – all very ’Emperor’s new clothes!’

Forget Europe, I’d settle for our current mid-table mediocrity at present. 11 points to safety? I’ll be counting them off -– because if we can’t beat Swansea at home, there is no guarantee of any points from any team at present.

Brent Stephens
265 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:02:34
Foetal position, thumb in mouth, rocking motion.
Colin Gee
266 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:03:37
Been saying it for over twelve months.
Taxi for Martinez. Needs to take Howard in the passenger seat with him as well.
Eddie Dunn
267 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:04:05
Just let me put some people straight on here, Tim Howard was guilty of treading on the striker.s foot, as he was on his way into the St End. The problem though did not start with our goalie but John "Calamity" Stones. He feigned to pass back, then delayed, so why would the keeper go towards him, especially when it was obvious that he should have put it into the back of the enclosure in the first place.
Howard was caught out as the delayed pass(under-hit) came in, and Howard was culpable for treading on Ayew.
The other goal was a big deflection off Stones. Neither Stones, nor Howard could be held accountable for that.

It is time for Robles to be given the starting berth, but it is even more obvious, that Stones needs a break, and we should start at City with Jags/Mori.

We wont get through anyway, but Stones is costing us every week.

Amit Vithlani
268 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:04:28

We can argue who to blame between Howard or Stones all night long but what is beyond dispute is that the team is making far too many individual errors. Yes we can blame bad luck but after a while you have to question why the players appear to lose confidence and focus when they step out on to the pitch. What type of pre match preparation are they given if, game after game, they make the same mistakes over and over?

We focus on the errors that led to the goals but there were so many more. Stones was horrendous today. A hospital pass to Oviedo in the second half was cleared thanks to good luck. Hesitation with the ball at his feet subsequently before finding Barkley who was fouled. A poor touch from a long ball almost gifted Swansea an opportunity. The rot extended to Howard who rolled the ball to Stones who had a man on and almost lost possession.

For both goals, Ayew makes runs which are simply not picked up. This repeatedly happened against Stoke, Leicester and Chelsea as runners were allowed to go with no one picking them up.

Repeated individual errors, lack of tempo, poor concentration and focus are on display in every single game.

Throw in a lack of fitness - so many players appeared spent and in injury time we simply had no puff to launch attacks and you have a dreadful combination of factors which leads to easy avoidable goals being conceded.

The rot has well and truly set in and even if Martinez is sacked it will take time to eradicate. However, he must be sacked sooner rather than later as certain players are in a comfort zone and getting away with terrible performances which will keep doing them, and the team, a great deal of harm over the course of the season.

James Stewart
270 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:07:50
@233 David I think you have hit the nail on the head.

'we're not respected by the press and the footballing world because we don't respect ourselves. We don't demand better, so we won't get it.'

Spot on, in order to be taken seriously you have to show intent. Many people laughed hard when the Leicester and West Ham owners were talking about being top 4 clubs. We don't respect ourselves you are correct, if we did this wouldn't be acceptable. Plucky Everton hoping for a cup upset to keep fans happy, disgusting!

Keith Monaghan
271 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:08:24
I was at the game, in Main Stand at the Gwladys St End, level with edge of penalty area. It's a poor back pass by JS, but TH is flat-footed and asleep.

Most of us know TH should not be playing, he has an awful effect on the defence. Apart from rare bits of class, Barkley is regularly lazy and inffective. No chance of £20m never mind £50.
Mike Price
272 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:09:25

The fact that you continually back Howard suggests that you just don't and never will, get it. Either that or you're on a wind the way, you're not the only person on here that plays or coaches.

Martinez could well lose his job over this; he's painted himself into a corner over Howard. If he drops him now everyone will scream it's been obvious for at least two years, he'll look like the stubborn fool he is.

Ian Hollingworth
273 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:10:16
Martinez talking about the 2nd half display "Desire in our play shows the quality we have"

He also mentioned that we could be talking about a different scoreline given the chances we had.

Håvard Sletvold
274 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:14:58
I must say I am shocked by the comments on here regarding Stones. It is correct he had a poor game and in general has not been very good in the last games, but from there and chasing him out the gates should be a non-issue. Keep in mind he is a young player still finding his way. He is under influence of his current manager, i.e. he tries to play the ball around at the back "a bit too much", and additionally he will not be playing at the same high level in all games due to his age.

He is about to stabilize, and hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later - but at the moment he is not receiving any help from the crowd. It was a totally different situation when he was crying in front of a fan bus after handing in a transfer request back in august? Should we hope for young talent like him to leave just because of a few mistakes and a poor run of games? In the current state, what will that leave us with at the back? An injury prone PJ and FM?

To the situation around the first goal today, it is a very strange movement from TH. He actually takes a step backwards before he decides to attack the ball. He is a veteran GK, and makes a really bad choice. The possible results of his choice to go in with his feet are one of two: Clear the ball or a penalty. Even so, the wrong movement was made - he had plenty of time to clear it if he had gone straight to the ball. He just does not use his hands. Another example was the save he made in the 2nd half. He ended up having the ball in between his legs, but just prior to that he was doing the wrong thing for a GK. He was standing with his legs spread and was an easy target for a ball both tunnel wise and in the long or short corner to one of the sides. He needs to position himself in a way that he can make a dive and hit to a corner with his hands or simply catch the ball with them.

This situation was run several times on Norwegian TV and the comments were made by former Spurs GK Erik Thorstvedt who stated that Howard was by far the worst GK in the PL. It was a really bad Swansea finish that saved Howard on that occasion. I cannot believe how Roberto M. can cont. playing after the number of errors made so far this season. Anyway: Get behind our youngest players, Stones played well in the beginning of the season and can easily start performing again! It is not a way forward to be increasing the sound level at Goodison when he gets the ball.
Peter Laing
275 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:16:46
@ John 239, who actually is in charge of the good ship Everton at the moment ? From Tony J Williams comments we have an ailing Chairman, a CEO and one Director in the shape of Jon Woods and a couple of silent partners operating in the shadows. There has been no update on the pre Christmas talk of a takeover, little in the way of positive movement in the transfer market and a team that is lurching from one disastrous result to another in the Premier league.
Sam Fitzsimmons
276 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:18:17
Is there any other club in the EPL that would accept Martinez's EPL stats and not intervene and replace him. Yes the Board can point to a manager who in his first season achieved 5th place with a records points total, on his second season made it to the last 16 in the Europa league, in his third season he's got us into the semi final of the capital one cup with a chance of progressing to the final. However IMHO I look at Stoke, West Ham, Spurs, Leicester and I envy their supporters.
Roman Sidey
277 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:20:22
James, spot on for pointing out David's point about self-respect. Just look at the reaction from the press last week after Chelsea's offside goal. The main summary was "get over it, Everton." If that goal was scored against any of the current top five plus Chelsea or the Redshite, we would still be hearing about it.
Sid Logan
278 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:20:52
I lay the blame for this fiasco at Matinez' door.

His plan in the opening stages was to let Swansea have the ball in their own half. Not quite sure what this is designed to achieve when your at home but there you go.

As soon as they had the ball in their half we retreated to our own half presumably to pounce and counter attack at pace - or so someone thought.

The problem was they began to pass it about - albeit in their half - while we sat back and watched.

This had three effects which then set the tone for most of the game. Firstly they started to tune in to the game and get some sort of rhythm going. Second because we weren't putting and pressure on them whatsoever their confidence grew and they became more comfortable.

However by far the worse effect - and not for the first time - the pace of our play becomes slower and we slide in to our stroll around mode a la Barcelona. We seem to lose both intent and intensity.

For me the direness of this game had, as much as any game this season, the dead hand of Martinez' at its centre.

Instead of getting at them and trying to unsettle them - which is what we should be doing to any lower tabled team at home - we allowed them grow in to the game.

Whatever Martinez says to his players before a name I can guarantee that he never says: take the game to them; play at a high intensity; and whatever else happens make sure you bloody well WIN.

Quite frankly I'm getting thoroughly pissed off making the journey home from Goodison thoroughly pisses off. Martinez need to talk less about players being in a good moment and think about giving some good moments to the supporters. Until he goes we our mid-table at best.

Peter Laing
279 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:21:00
As things stand - who are the Everton board ?
Liam Gould
280 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:21:00
Martinez will never change his philosophy so change the manager, I get nothing outta going to games and getting beat 5-4 or drawing 3-3 cos we played nice footy, I want points and points by 1-0 wins if necessary and scrappy victories.

Also, I’m sick this magnificent character we showed in the second half of games as he puts it, we still ain’t winning, 1 in 10 games we’ve won and no Europa League to blame and the best squad we’ve had for years.

John stones is wrapped up in his own hype, sell him for £50M (if it’s still on offer) as we need a great centre half now not in 3 or 4 yrs if he fills his potential,he’s gonna go anyway so get what we can and buy some one for now lots of good ones out there for £20M or thereabouts.

No good winning the League cup and finishing 14th cos our best players will be off and who’ll want to sign for a mid table club!

Mike Hughes
281 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:21:18
I couldn't give a toss about the stats.
I couldn't give that much of a toss about the tippy-tappy 'philosophy'.
And certainly not the hard luck stories.

Anyone can sit on the fence and fanny around hiding behind all of those (including several posters on TW).

It's almost as though there's tacit acceptance that supporting Everton means supporting Martinez and in not doing the latter that somehow makes you disloyal. It does not. As for the pre-season TW editorial plea of more positivity, that's becoming increasingly challenging.

The apologists come out with ifs, buts and maybes which makes them as bad as him in my opinion. (E.g "you can't legislate for every individual error". Maybe not but he keeps selecting those who err repeatedly which is bordering on stupidity.)

It's the results that matter regardless of how obvious, boring or repetitive that statement may be.
My opinion - expressed on here a year ago after the home draw with WBA - has not changed.
RM should be out of here.
(Nb. Should be - though I doubt the board will act so swiftly).
He has not taken us forward and will not deliver CL.
He might win a cup. If so, great, thanks and bye bye.

The usual challenge to this is who would do better? I've no idea but I didn't choose RM either. And there's plenty who could not do worse.

This club has been fuelled by mediocrity for so long now that's it's in our DNA. We should be top 6 minimum this season.

RM's level? Wigan / Bolton.
And yet he somehow still retains his position here.
A joke.

Steve Woods
282 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:21:43
So amongst Martinez's other "achievements" he now claims that Everton have "become fearful" of playing at Goodison. Well done Roberto! Thanks a bunch now do the right thing and fuck off.

Jonathan Steinmetz
283 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:22:30
Who would you all like to be manager? Wondering what world class manager would take control of a team with a limited budget who plays in a park that is falling apart. What's the short list?
Mark Pierpoint
284 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:22:30
A great shame. A number of problems evident.

1) It is clear that there is a lack of leadership on the pitch. Fair play to Barry, he played well as captain. Just don't see a Neville or Cahill figure anywhere. The sort of pro's who don't accept players not giving their all. It shows everytime we go onto that pitch. Really does. The key players we have now are, frankly, gutless. That is why we throw so many leads away.

2) Howard. The guy is clearly shot. Gutless and clearly does not inspire confidence of the backline. Martinez's support of him is baffling and just sets the tone for the rest of the players. How can you possibly respect his judgment if you are a player?

3) We play to a philosophy that is totally flawed. Stones and Howard for the first goal was laughable. The rolling the ball to players with two men around him is laughable. The team lacks balance. Too many unpredictable players who you can't rely on. Deulofeu was a total spectator for 60 minutes. You can't win games with such players. Barkley was poor as well. Key players in this team, bur who you never know what you will get from.

4) He is a good guy, but Oviedo simply has no role at this club. Especially considering we have Galloway and Garbutt still.

I would draw a line under the season. We will finish 11th or something. Let anyone go who wants to. Stones is a great player but not what we need right now. If someone will give us 40-50 for him, great. Lukaku, and I say this with a heavy heart, will want out. Don't really blame him, even if we finished 4th or 5th, I do not think he sees his future at this level. PSG or United, If they want him, will get him.

We then rebuild. For me it would not be Martinez to do it. De Boer would be my choice. If not, maybe Benitez or Mark Hughes. Add to this list Vincenzo Montella as a wildcard.

Martinez is a good bloke, and a decent manager. I don't think this is the job for him. Plucky smaller teams maybe. Think he would do well on the continent. Not in the cash rich, ultra competitive PL though.

Tony Hill
285 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:25:24
Ian (250), I think he's brainwashed himself over the years and now simply doesn't see what everyone else can. He has programmed himself with management consultancy/PR claptrap and is no longer capable of recognising that reality refuses to fit in with his vision (whatever that is).

I come across these people often in business and in fact they are now woven right into the fabric of our society. It is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and singing, so that you don't hear anything uncomfortable. Madness, of course.

James Parker
286 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:25:32
Just got back from the match. Awful. Those saying the fault lays with Stones for the back pass are in my view wrong though. On TV it doesn't show what Howard does. He was waiting for the pass and once it was made stood there. Then he took 3 steps backwards away from the ball and the hat was what allowed Ayew to get in. If he had gone towards the ball to kick it he would have cleared in plenty of time. I couldn't believe my eyes!
Jim Knightley
287 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:25:34
The scoreline should have been different with the chances we had. A couple of handball decisions would have also changed the game. But that's not the point. The issue is the continued naivety, the continued openness, and the lack of realisation about those failures. We lost players today, we were unlucky, and none us would have been calling for Martinez's head if it was a one off. But this is the consistent Everton home performance now. 24 goals and how many wins? 3. Leicester have scored 19 and won 6. United have scored 12 and won 5. Watford and Stoke have both scored 13 and won 5. Arsenal? 16 goals and 7 wins. We have been woefully inefficient, and horribly open. It was there again for everyone to see. A few passes and a Swansea player was running at an Everton full back, or at a CB pulled out of position, because we leave so much space. That has been the way of things. That is why we have conceded so many headed chances. We can't play with so many attackers, so much attacking freedom, and expect to reach our potential. We need to combine hard work with pragmatism. Clean sheets are guaranteed points, but goals are not.

Maybe if Martinez wins the FA Cup, or both cups, he will earn himself a bit more time. But we have had over a season and a half of woeful under performance now. The clear potential in our squad won't remain forever, and a mid-table finish will see the best of our players getting itchy feet.

Personally, I'd give the job to Howe.

Deulofeu was very good today incidentally. We will need him at his best on Wednesday.

Tony Dove
288 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:28:52
Most people seem to be missing one basic problem with today’s team and that is the decision to play the very one footed[left] Oviedo at right back. All Swansea's efforts and goals came down that side where Oviedo was like a fish out of water. Luckily it seems Coleman will be okay for Wednesday which should be RM’s last game if it goes badly.

As I posted last week why did RM change the defence which had kept a clean sheet against Man City for the Chelsea match?. What’s the link with today? Oviedo at right back. Not the player’s fault, he is an okay fill in for Baines.

RM is a dead man walking and deserves to be.

David Connor
289 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:31:44
No blame can be put on Howard today. Plain and simple, John Stones cost us fucking big time today. The lad just doesnt know when to clear the ball, he wants to fuck around with it all the time. We need two no-nonsense, take-no-shit centre backs or this will happen time and again with this lad.

He is a luxury we can't have. If someone is stupid enough to offer £40+ million snap their hand off. The defence will be no worse without him. Things need to change rapidly or the season will be a dissaster.

Bobby isn't the man to take us forward; I think that's clear as he cannot organise a defence to save his life. Everyone knows you build a successful side on a solid defence. Unfortunately ours is piss poor, probably one of the worst in the Premier League. This will continue with this man at the helm. I fear he will ruin us sooner or later.

The board need to be decisive and get rid ASAP. He comes across as a nice fella but he is out of his depth, that's crystal clear now. Avoid relagation and he has got a job for life, though. What a spineless fucking board we have.
Ray Robinson
290 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:34:48
Stones really needs to be rested now – a lad who seems to be believing his own publicity and continues to take unnecessary risks. His defensive learning process certainly has a long way to go yet despite his immense potential.

I don’t know why Jags wasn’t named in the squad today but he will definitely be needed if we are to have any chance of making Wembley on Wednesday. I’d go with Jagielka and Funes Mori on Wednesday night .

Ken Finch
291 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:35:02
Due to illness I couldn't so had to endure the unbiased commentary of Alan Parry on Sky. Dreadful commentary; dreadful first half; dreadful tactics; dreadful management. Big Dunc must despair of the apparent lack of passion.

When Lukaku is pitched to play one to one on a centre half and where it appears in 10 minutes that he is not going to win challenges, why not mix it up to get him to stretch defences? Does it happen? No it doesn't.

Bring on a right footed midfield sub (Cleverley) to play him on the left when a two footed player already in the team can use that talent (potentially) to better effect.

Mind you that two footed player falls over his own feet and runs down blind channels you couldn't trust him to negotiate out of a cul de sac. He is a forward midfielder, almost a number 10. He plays his best there but when he does, the next games see him dropped back. Barkley is his name, play him properly or he will go and perform better elsewhere.

Stones is becoming a legend in his own mind. More strength in the passes son and that does not mean mindless kiscks upfield.

WTF has happened to Baines? Scruffy throwback to 1970s and joins in the clu de sac game.

If I had gone today the reason for my illness might have caused me more serious troubles. Glad I will be an armchair supporter for a while - at least there is an off button

Les Martin
292 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:35:32
The injuries to Mirallas and Besic, do they not do enough stretching before the game as these injuries came so early in the match.

Onto the game, poor defending by Stones who sold Howard short, he was to blame. Is it me or does he give the impression that he is not bothered, and wants away; he is far to casual and strolls about rather than marking and closing down advancing players.

Never in a million years is he worth the £30-40M that's being mentioned on current seasons performances. Prior to the game Sky were showing some of the goals we had conceded during the season and sadly he was to blame for most of them, either by not marking or tracking.

He should have taken a lesson from Williams of Swansea who worked tirelessly to mark Lukaku out of the game, he may not be fancy but he defends!!

As for the team, I thought without Barry we would just fall about, I just wish he had been with us 10 years ago.

And a final message for Roberto, get the ball out of defence as quick as we can, we are allowing the opposition to stack up then we cant find an opening, very poor tactics shown today.

Dave Abrahams
293 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:39:15
I thought Funes Mori, Baines, Pienaar, Barry and Deulofeu (even though he was knackered) had good to decent games, Delboy’s body had gone but his brain was wide awake, pity some of the other players weren’t awake with him.

What was missing, and has been missing for the last eighteen months, was effort, energy movement and enthusiasm; nothing will change with Martinez in charge and there is no-one on the coaching staff who can change it.

Anybody who thinks we can’t go down could be in for a huge shock while this manager is allowed to run the club.

Meiz Jones
294 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:41:34
Sat in the Gwladys street end today and these are a couple of things I observed:

1. Any point in Dennis Lawrence turning up? as throughout the warm up he just had his hand in his pockets?!?

2. Before a ball was even kicked I knew 'Ashley Willaims' would have Lukaku's number (and it will be the same next year). I thought 'Williams' was rather impressive today and he always seems to play well against us (the formation does help him a lot though)

3.This passing the ball at the back (which led to there penalty, is something installed by Martinez and it needs to change!)

4. Just before the start of the second half the swansea fitness coach went through some warm up drills on the side of the pitch (so they were ready when they kicked off), while we just strolled back onto the pitch.

5. I thought oviedo was really coming into the game second half but then bobby takes him off?

6. Funny how swansea 'new manager' showed his trump card by putting on a centre back to close the game out (a tactic which I thought really worked) something Martinez would never do!

7. To end, the formation didn't and doesn't work (i could see from the first 15 minutes Lukaku was struggling on his own up there) added to this the points above shows Martinez is still rather amateur, as in all honesty swansea don't have better players than us, however, they were set up better! and that blame lies on the manager!

David Connor
295 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:46:33
John (#237). How the fuck can you keep the faith with this team and this manager? Enough is enough, mate.

I'm sick and tired of being let down time and time again... we have supported them for 20 trophyless years.


Time for this fucker to do one. He is an absolute joke.

Ray Robinson
296 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:46:43
You cannot start with Deulofeu, Mirallas, Lukaku and Barkley in the same team. All wonderful players in their own right when going forward but who contribute absolutely nothing defensively. I'll allow Lukaku off in this respect as his role is to score but the other three cannot all be on the field at the same time if we are to at least try to defend from the front. Deulofeu played intermittently well today but seemed to be blowing tugs, wide right and behind play for a significant part of the match.

Martinez seems oblivious to all this and seems content to be happy spouting managerial claptrap.

Colin Glassar
297 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:46:55
Martinez being torn apart (justifiably) by the three Sky pundits.
Keith Monaghan
298 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:48:12
I was at today’s game – in Main Stand, level with edge of pen area at Gwladys Street end, so had a great view of Swansea's goals! Stones’s backpass was light, but Howard was asleep and flat-footed – should have hoofed it upfield easily. Most of us know he should have stayed out of team when Robles was in for about 7 games last season. It’s been clear for ages that the defence has no confidence in him, a situation which has always been a recipe for trouble.

Swans defended very well in 2nd half – but we help by so often being slow. Barkley should be dropped – apart from rare pieces of class, he is generally slow, lazy & ineffective – faces our goal rather than the opponents far too often and dwells on the ball. Thought Pienaar did quite well, Funes Mori too and Barry excellent again. Bad news about Besic & Mirallas – we need them 100% fit and back in the team asap. – Wednesday night looking even tougher right now. But City’s defence ain’t too good either, and they need to attack us, so hope we’ll get chances on the counter – NO SURRENDER YET!

No way RM will be sacked now whilst in due diligence, so we need to support him and the team in spite of current results. Too much criticism etc from us will not help the team perform better.

Ralph Basnett
299 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:50:20
I know the title says another shocking result but, with what Martinez has been doing with our team, it should not be such a shock.

There is no doubt that we do have a talented squad and we should thank him for that. Unfortunately he cannot manage them, or think on his feet and act; hence where we are today.

Jay Gee
300 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:55:16
Stones needs to get his head out of the ’shop window’ mentality. He always feigns to his left then swings back on to the right when facing his own goal. It puts him onto his left foot and strikers are onto it.

They’re all risking going on to this side and squeezing him. He then holds on to the ball too long and compromises whoever receives it from him. To me he’s neither fish nor fowl. Not a great, brave, astute defender nor an accomplished midfielder.

He needs a benching, or better still get the big bid and put the money back on the pitch. The lad is sussed!
Andy Crooks
301 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:55:33
I cannot listen to Martinez any more, in fact his every half-witted, cretinous utterance makes me want to vomit. I feel appalled that we have a coach for whom I have nothing but contempt.

Good points from David Barks and Jim Knightley; however, analysis is pointless. If Martinez is not sacked, he will destroy our club. His vanity and self-interest is mind boggling.

Wigan, under many other coaches, would not have been relegated; Martinez stuck to his asinine principles, destroyed them permanently, and fucked off. He was never fit to be our coach and if he had been at Anfield, he’d have been sacked a year ago.

Alan Bodell
302 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:58:05
I’m a shareholder (only 1) and only ever written 1 letter to Goodison.

It was to Kevin Campbell some years back to thank him for saving us from the drop and after today I pulled out the writing pad to send my 2nd to plead for the board to get rid of this Spanish fool but it would only get binned and a wasted postage stamp so I put it back in the draw.

Seething about no lessons learnt.

Tony Smith
303 Posted 24/01/2016 at 18:59:03
Dave 232 Spot on, you describe perfectly the Everton mentality of we don't behave that way, which we think is being superior when in fact it is just being afraid of any type of change hence still stuck in a shitty stadium whilst these 'lesser' clubs are leaving us behind.
Ian Hollingworth
304 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:00:53
We should not be shocked. Look at the table, look at the stats. It’s week-in, week-out we get the same tactics, same players and then the same lame excuses. I have said this many times RM was not, is not and never will be the right man to manage Everton FC.

Real problem is with BK as he lives in a bigger fantasy world than Bobby. Any news on the takeover?

Christy Ring
305 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:04:13
We're going backwards under Martinez now. He sold Naismith, and never replaced him. Kone is absolute shite, but today Lukaku was back upfront on his own against two centre backs, and he's not the same player when he's isolated on his own.
Also playing Oviedo on the right is a disaster, and he was completely exposed today. Why is Pennington not given a chance.
Ian Riley
306 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:06:38
Todays performance in the first half was everything bad about having Martinez as our manager. Please remember last season was very similar. No fight from the team. No hope from the fans! Only one outcome! Sadly we are not brave enough at boad room level! The slide is on!! If we keep conceeding two to three goals a game, relegation is a possibility. Wednesday night could be our saviour. Oh yes Wigan won the cup but got relegated.
Andy Meighan
307 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:09:01
Great post by David Parks (#259) and my sentiments exactly.
Geoff Evans
308 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:09:51
I wish people would stop expecting any better from this club. As long as they stay up and keep the gravy train rolling that's the only thing that concerns this club. We can't even finish the top club in the city even when the other lot are no better than average.

Wake up and smell the coffee, we are in the prem to make up the numbers and no one, other than we Evertonians (more in hope than expectation) expect anything else. Martinez was brought in to achieve what this club has become accustomed to since the eighties, mediocrity, and so far this season, he's even falling short of that.

If anything was ever going to change under Kenwright, it would have done by now, it hasn't and it won't.

Craig Mills
309 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:10:23
Colin it won’t matter who tears Martinez apart because he believes he is always right, there is no way he will change his ways.

In his post match interviews I wish he were asked about his diabolical record at Goodison in the last 12 months or the continuous calamity defending that we witness week-in week-out. I want him to feel under pressure and that the fans won’t accept these pathetic displays, 1 win in 10 and he thinks we are a force that should be feared where in truth we are a joke – everyone must love playing Everton.

And to finish on one more negative note, my money is going on 3-0 City on Wednesday night, play like we did today and they will blow us away.

David Hallwood
310 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:11:15
Jim (#266) Shudda cudda wudda. But the stats say different, and this is now becoming a full blown crisis, and it’s hard to see where the next win’s coming from.

It’s difficult to add what’s already been posted, but once again we saw Howard trying to clear with his feet rather than smothering the ball; why? because his bottle’s gone that’s why. This 6’-4" cage fighter doesn’t want to be hurt, and in situations like that where goalies need to be brave, his reaction is like an over the hill boxer he wants to stay out of trouble.

On several threads I have posted RM’s defensive record in the 7 years he has been a Premier League manager – and it makes gruesome reading and it isn’t going to get any better anytime soon, unless he changes his ’philosophy’. But he isn’t going to change even though the opposition have sussed it out.

Swansea pinned us in by closing the back 4 down and scrabbling for the second ball – how many times have we seen that. Once in front, 10 men behind the ball in the knowledge that our mids very rarely run ahead of Rom, and prefer to fuck about on the 18-yard box looking for the perfect opening. Look at the balls Gerry was putting in; to who? Where are the midfield runners, the fat Frank or even Kevin Nolan movement.

We are at a crossroads and it needs the board to be bold; sack a manager whose teams will always ship goals. and scour the earth for a manager that can organise and inspire... don’t hold your breath.

Colin Glassar
311 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:12:07
The most worrying aspect, for me, is our total lack of fight. We don't press, we don't contest 2nd balls, we don't argue with the match officials, the crowd is flat, we don't get in people's faces etc....

Martinez is a nice guy, the players all seem to be nice guys. There's a lot of talent in that team but no fighters. Now a lot of people have called for a big burly centre back but I believe we need a mean, tough little bugger in MF who will fight, scream and contest every ball and decision. That's why I said we need someone like Joey Barton in our team. He wouldn't stand for this lethargic, slow and ponderous football some of our players seem happy to hide behind. We don't have one player who will stand up and say, "enough is enough".

Besic and McCarthy are good players but they are too nice. We need a Norman Hunter type in MF who will lead by example. Someone who will put his boot, and head, in where it hurts.

Brian Harrison
312 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:12:31
So another game without a win, in fact... we couldn't even scrape a draw against a distinctly average side. But unlike RM, their manager put 11 men behind the ball and made it difficult, something that our man refuses to do even when leading by 2 goals away from home.

Yes Deulofeu put in some stunning crosses that should have been converted, but for most of the game Lukaku was our only striker in the box. I posted before I went to the game that if we had Pochettino in charge, we would be inside the top 4, and Barkley would be playing in the same role that Alli plays for Spurs.

RM should never have been given the job in the first place, and for those who said Wigan got relegated because of their poor players, well, we have a very good group of players but the same problems that happened at Wigan are the same as is happening at Everton. Like them, we play nice football but as they did concede too many goals. Now what's the common denominator? Exactly – RM.

Maybe if the miracle happens and we manage to get through against Man City; will that mean he is safe till the end of the season irrespective of how close we get to relegation. So surely if we lose to Man City then there will be absolutely nothing to save him.

Maybe now might not be the right time to appoint his long term successor, so ask Joe Royle to do it till the new owners appoint a new man for next season. Joe will at least have them organised and each player will know what is required.

Patrick Murphy
313 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:13:04
David (310) Howard couldn't smother the ball with his hands as it was a back-pass, mind you a booking and a free-kick would have been a better outcome than a penalty.
Michael Allanson
314 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:16:03
The truth about this club is that it's run with one aim: survival.

We’re stuck in a shit stadium with a board lacking in ambition allowing this fraud of a manager to get away with murder.

Our best players will get tired of playing for him and move on, and who can blame them?

He’s built a squad with one good forward, one right back and a surplus of wingers and midfielders.

In short, he hasn’t got a clue and should be sacked immediately. And take this board with you.

Brian Williams
315 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:17:46
I wouldn’t class myself as rebellious or outspoken, and I sometimes wince at some of the more extreme opinions on here... BUT... it’s quite obvious, and has been for some time that our manager is an absolute idealist who wants to play a certain way despite the fact that we don’t live in an ideal world.

The philosophy of "we’ll score more than you and defending is negative" just doesn’t and won’t work unless you happen to be Barcelona (and even they know how to defend).

Martinez has a philosophy and is too stubborn, or unwilling, to adapt it to fit into the REAL world.

I just want to reach enough points to be safe this season and then hopefully, please God, the board will thank Martinez for his efforts and sack him at the end of the season.

David Pearl
316 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:17:59
You cant blame RM for today – we had enough chances to win more than one game.

On the other hand... I don’t even think Howard was aware of Ayew. He should know by now the game we play, to expect the pass. He seemed to hesitate before reacting.

It's time. If Robles plays well on Wednesday then he has to give him a go now. Enough is enough. The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. Our very own President Bush.

Martin Mason
317 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:18:38
As Jamie Carragher said it is about intensity, this shouldn’t be confused with hard work but about closing down and or tackling non-stop, anticipating danger, getting behind the ball quickly, getting in their face everywhere, etc.

It’s showing a bit of humility and doing simple things well rather than thinking you are Bobby Moore already rather than a raw young defender.

Julian Exshaw
318 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:18:41
Slightly off topic but what a shame it is that Pienaar is the age he is. He still has loads of class and I liked him when he came on today.
David Pearl
319 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:19:41
Colin, I don't think Besic is too nice. In fact if you cross him you might get chewy in your hair. And we all know how hard that is to get out!
Brent Stephens
320 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:20:46
Julian, I thought Pienaar was as good as Barry today, and good to see him back doing the triangles with Baines. I’d like another left-sided player like him.
Darren Hind
321 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:21:46
Colin (#311),

After years of denying the evidence of your own yes and blindly defending Martinez, I thought a penny may finally have dropped... Then you come on calling for Joey Barton?

David Hallwood
322 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:23:08
Sorry bout that, Patrick (#313) it’s the Chardonnay talking, I was still on the Chelsea game, to use it as an example of his spinelessness.
Craig Fletcher
323 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:23:43
Ajay Gopal (242) very well-written, reasoned post.

It is far, far from good enough at the moment from Martinez and our team, but I'm not going to write him off just yet, even though my patience is becoming strained.

The irony of it though..... in September, Besic goes off inside the first ten minutes with an injury, we bring on Naismith who scores a hat-trick, we win against the league champions.

Fast-forward to January, we sell Naismith (who then scores against the RS in his first game for his new club), Besic again goes off injured in the first ten minutes, and we lose to relegation candidates. Everton, that.

Frank Crewe
324 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:26:56
What we have is an overpromoted scout managing the club. RM just hasn't got the nounce to win matches at a consistent level. He gets the odd decent result and lives on it for the next dozen matches. Who knows maybe we'll make it to the League Cup Final, maybe even win it. But it makes no difference. He is still an overpromoted scout. If he isn't gone in the summer or sooner then this time next season we will be in the same position we are now wondering how it all went wrong again.

That back pass have probably knocked £10 million off Stones's transfer fee. If it was up to me I'd sell him right now because in his head he's already gone. He's dreaming of Madrid or Barcelona not Everton.

Deulofeu must be pulling his hair out. Ball after ball right across the six yard box yet Lukaku isn't anywhere near them. Hanging around on the penalty spot. He could have had two goals today if he'd just move closer to the goal, but he won't.

Besic looks like another Gibson. A couple of games and his hamstring goes. See ya in six weeks. Shame because he looks like a good midfield player.

All in all another disappointing performance to add to all the other disappointing performances we've seen since RM darkened our door.

Trevor Peers
325 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:30:34
David (#316), You're not seriously blaming all our woes on Howard. And suggesting RM is blameless as the manager? How ridiculous can you get, maybe you can phone Roberto up and give him the benefit of your vast experience.
Geoff Evans
326 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:30:37
Show this manager and his over paid and over hyped players DVDs of Leicester, a team their supporters can be proud of and show them what's expected for what their paid.
Harold Matthews
327 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:34:19
Yes Mike C. I also noticed several players deliberately hiding behind opposition lads, leaving our man on the ball with no-one to pass to. Maybe they were trying to pace themselves. I really don't know, but it didn't look good.
Colin Glassar
328 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:40:10
Darren, I also mentioned Norman Hunter as the hard playing, hard tackling leader we need. No, Joey's boat sailed years ago but I'd love to have a dyed-in-the-wool, nasty Evertonian breathing bastard in that team. Someone who could add a bit of steel to our talented team.
John Daley
329 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:41:49
GK 101? When it comes to Tim Howard, 'Room 101' seems much more appropriate.

I'd be seriously concerned about the footballing future of any kid stuck learning the game under a coach who deems Tim's puss king reaction today (and almost any occasion he has to front up an onrushing opposition player) to be 'proper text book'.

I'd imagine that guy's entire 'Stopper!' syllabus would amount to watching a sixty second clip from Superman 2 and saying "Always remember guy's: Goalkeeper's are the astronaut's of grass":


"Now, piss off and let me get back to penning my fool proof Hostage Negotiation Handbook.....'Always. Have. A. Bag. Of. Haribo's. Handy.' The End."

Ian Riley
330 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:42:53
Getting to 40 points may not be that easy. Our home form is shite to put it mildly! Our defending is beyond a joke! I’m starting to think the squad is not up to it. Are we really as good as the pundits claim? Who is out there to come in??

A manager who works with a low budget and gets the most out of a team is needed! Gary Rowett at Birmingham city could be a choice! Done a great job there. The trouble is our next manager will have to save us from relegation. No pressure then!!

John Keating
331 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:43:14
A few weeks ago I said I was embarrassed to be an Evertonian and a few slated me for it.

Well tonight I am embarrassed to be an Evertonian and be associated with that shower of shit that play for and manage my Club.

This imposter should have been shown the door over 12 months ago and here we are now discussing exactly the same issues.

If this clown manages to escape relegation this season for sure he will be successful next.

We were asked to be more positive with our posts this season, well they will be when this clown goes.

Colin Malone
332 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:45:07
Andy Gray in this present side? We would be in the top half.

Romelu Lukaku in the eighties side? Would we have won the trophies? No fucking chance. Lukaku? Prima donna. No fucking passion.

He would not have lasted in a Kendall or a Joe Royle side.
Martin Mason
333 Posted 24/01/2016 at 19:49:47
As stated above, today shows that we are a club, or should I perhaps say a team that has now probably moved into crisis mode and Wednesday could confirm this. Moyes has gone, a new manager taken on and the team rebuilt and despite promise we can now see that the project has failed with dreadful, clueless performances and a visibly demoralised team.

We’re unlikely to go down but maybe we’re now beginning to show relegation form and many other sides have gone down despite being too good to do so. If we go through on Wednesday, it could be a disaster. We were almost there too but we have been found out and our peers have done better than us.

I will say also that it’s likely that the club itself is in crisis with Kenwright very ill and the chances high of us becoming yet another American NFL styled franchise club. I fear for the club now, perhaps for its very existence.

Patrick Murphy
334 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:02:58
Martin (#333),

We are perhaps a team in crisis but how does a takeover automatically put our very existence in danger? Unless of course you know something about the potential owners that the rest of us don’t.

We have been a club that has been in crisis for most of the Premier League era, otherwise, we wouldn’t have had to sell off our best players to keep the wolf from the door on many occasions.

Going through on Wednesday may be the shot in the arm that the team and the fans need, it may be unlikely but it is still possible, a bigger disaster will be if we go there and roll over like we did in Kiev last season that could be a dagger through the heart of the club.

Dave Ganley
335 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:02:59
Is this still part of the great master plan I keep hearing about? There was just a sense of inevitability about it all today. I couldn't even get annoyed at the game, just a passive acceptance of what was happening. Anybody who defends Martinez anymore really does need help im afraid. That had him written all over it. No passion, no urgency, no nothing really until we were chasing the game and even then we only managed 2 shots on target.

Colin G, we don't need an idiot like Barton, we need someone like Cahill. Someone who wouldn't tolerate the arrogance Stones is displaying by the bucket load. There is absolutely no one who gets in the players faces to tell them their performance is unacceptable. What with Martinez telling them its ok to make mistake after mistake and no one on the pitch saying anything its no wonder we are where we are. You can be talented kids and not make mistakes.....ask Fergies class of 92 for confirmation. Its all about how you prepare them for life in the Premier league. The EPL is not a place to make mistakes but our glorious leader is oblivious of that.

Dont know why anyone is surprised by the rubbish atmosphere at the game today, its been like that for 2 years now. Thanks a lot Senor Martinez.

Thankfully I stopped listening to his post match interviews a long time ago. There is nothing he can say that will justify that or anything else that has gone on for the last 2 years.

He should have gone last season but didnt. He should be gone already this season but isn't. How many more games do we have to tolerate?

Bun McGale
336 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:12:54
Sack him now... not tomorrow... not tonight. Right Now! Bring in anybody, even Ian Dowie would do much better until the summer.

What is the board doing? Surely they see what is happening! Same excuses week-in, week-out, nothing changes. The stats are absolutely appalling and anyone who thinks he needs time or until the summer is taking some serious medication or smoking the back street stuff.

Any other team in the league would get shot of a manager with his record and, unlike most managers in the Premier League, he has a squad rich with talent. I am lost for words and completely bemused as to why he is not gone already. My choice would be Mourinho until end of season.

Martin Mason
337 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:14:46
Patrick, a takeover would ensure our survival but it could remove the heart and soul from the club.

My own thoughts are still that nobody on the planet could be crazy enough to buy Everton while we need a ground and with all of our other liabilities.

Frank Sheppard
338 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:16:24
The Board must act quick after Wednesday and get rid of Martinez. How else do we convince Barkley, Lukaku, Baines, Stones, Mirallas, Besic, Deulofeu, Coleman etc that we have any ambition at all?

I don’t know as yet who should be the manager, but clearly it isn’t Martinez. He has the tools to do a great job, but not the ability. Sad. Time to get rid, and very quickly... :-(

Neil Lawson
339 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:17:22
Dear Roberto,

You had 10 internationals starting and 3 more joining from the bench. Your best player was the only one yet to gain a full cap. With such talent and experience, why was it all so woeful ? The answer may appear in your mirror.

Time to 'foxtrot oscar', Mr Martinez, before half or more of your team leave before you.

After 50+ years of being a blue, never have I been so indifferent to a defeat. You have even managed to knock the passion out of us supporters as well.

Tony Abrahams
340 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:17:29
It’s all about how you prepare them for life in the Premier League, is so correct, Dave. Frank calls him an over promoted scout; fair enough... but I think his perfect job would be a youth development coach.

It’s like the points don’t matter sometimes, and his comments after the Chelsea game saying that we won that match were just incredible.

It’s something you might say to kids when you are trying to teach them the game, and I would love to know what the senior players (excluding Tim), really thought of such stupidity?

Patrick Murphy
341 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:23:35
Interesting Martin "All of our other liablilites" what would they be?

I always thought you were a steadfast supporter of the current regime and, according to your good self, that we were a well-run club.

Ian Riley
342 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:24:52
Mr Mason, is Bill Kenwright very ill?

If he is, then get well, Mr Kenwright.

Alex Willett
344 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:28:01
Martinez, take a bow.

You are by far the greatest of all Bill’s actors. When is this horror show going to end?

Bill Gall
345 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:29:16
Colin, do you actually believe that Martinez would play a player in the mold of a J Barton or N Hunter who in today's game would get more yellow and red cards in a month, than the rest would get in a season?

I am aware that you seem to be loosing faith in Martinez, but don’t worry – you have a better chance of winning the Lotto than BK firing him, as that means he made a mistake in hiring him.

Stephen Brown
346 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:29:42
Sorry I have not read all the above comments so apologies if repeating! I’m not really one to make outlandish comments but at the moment John Stones is the most overrated footballer in the Premier League or Europe or wherever it’s said he’s the best defender!!

The lad can obviously play well with the ball at his feet and I’m sure (hope) he goes onto have a great career but at the moment he cannot DEFEND – he’s a defender! There was a world class defender on the pitch today! His name was Ashley Williams. He blocked, tackled, marked Rom out of the game, organised, headed and DEFENDED!

Until Stones can master these skills, he will continue to be a liability as however good you are on the ball (which wasn’t that good either today!) giving goals away as a defender is not good enough! It’s a bit like having a striker who doesn’t score but is world class at coming back to defend corners!

Difficult situation for all now! All eggs now in the basket on Wednesday!

Bun McGale
347 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:30:55
I see Amanda Holden has signed on for Everton in the Community... I would even take her on as coach until the end of the season.
Alex Willett
348 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:38:11
Ian... exactly. Watch this space....
Oliver Molloy
349 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:44:37
This is the latest load of crap from The Incredible One (see below).

Now it’s the fans fault... "We’re a team that knows exactly what it is doing" – this man is a fucking joke. Is it any wonder we are in trouble when the manager of the team comes out with absolute bollocks week after week. I would have more respect as would any reasonable person if he just told the truth. Honestly, is he serious?

Roberto Martinez reckons his Everton players play with doubt and fear at Goodison Park and has suggested "we need to make it comfortable for our players".

Everton have only won three games at home all season, and when asked about their defensive mishaps against Swansea, he replied: "It happens at home more than anywhere else. I don’t think we have that sort of doubt and fear [away from home].

"We’re a team who knows exactly what it is doing. We’ve got really good individuals with fantastic character who care about what they do but our defensive record at home this season is not good enough.

"It doesn’t go along with what we are as a team and doesn’t go along with what we produce away from home. It’s clearly something we need to work on.

"We have six games left at home and they’re vital games for us. We need to make it comfortable for our players. We need to make sure we find a way to perform at Goodison."

Kieran Fitzgerald
350 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:44:42
It's very easy to make Stones look ordinary, just don't give him any time on the ball. He'll make enough mistakes to give you chances and with Howard behind him those chances become gift wrapped goals.

He showboats and this is catching up with him as teams will target him during a game. Press him and he will make any amount of mistakes.

Ron Sear
351 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:53:16
Abysmal performance. I vaguely remembered something about the body language who stands around with their arms folded in front of them as our dear leader is wont to do do. A bit of cod psychology I know but the textbook behavoural stuff more or less sums something up:

"When someone crosses their arms, it usually means that they're closed for arguments. By crossing the arms, a barrier is put in front of the body, as some sort of protection. Putting an object in front of you may be the same signal.

Another reason for crossing arms may be that you're feeling vulnerable or insecure. The crossing of arms may then be interpreted as a sort of "self-hug", to comfort yourself."


Martin Mason
352 Posted 24/01/2016 at 20:53:16
Patrick, we can be well run and have liabilities.
Des Farren
353 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:00:41
The performance today, especially first half, was truly awful. The collective and individual effort, with a few notable exceptions, was embarrassing at times.

The atmosphere in the ground, to someone who watched the game on TV, from the kick-off, was quiet at best... poisonous at worst.

Do I wish to excoriate players and manager alike? Not really. Would it help anyone? Not really. I support Everton, the club, players, manager and hope, yes hope, for more composure, intensity in our play and less of the fear factor, which was all too prevalent today and most weeks, particularly at home.

The performances leave a lot to be desired but the solutions are more involved than is generally accepted on here where sackings and dismissals are generally the order of the day.

A bit more support would undoubtedly help especially when the going gets tough(er) which it probably will.

Sport is just that, a sport. The weekly haranguing of players and manager from armchair critics, many of whom are patently prejudiced, is hardly likely to improve anyone's performance.

Patrick Murphy
354 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:02:22
We have debts, Martin, but your original post made it sound as if we had some sort of hidden liabilities. The heart and soul of the club are the supporters – not the people in the boardroom.
David Greenwood
355 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:03:46
Are we being well run, Martin?
Matt Woods
356 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:06:21
Fucking disgrace. The attitude first half against a poor team at the bottom of the league at home? Fucking diabolical... stand off a team low on confidence and GIVE them a foothold in the game. How in fucks name can pros on this kind of tank be so timid?

Mr Martinez? If these useless cunts aren’t motivated to work hard from the kick off it's your lack of motivation!

Absolute utter embarrassment, the perfect confidence building exercise for our big semi-final. Start like that on Wednesday and it will be all over inside 20 mins.

Don Alexander
357 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:07:25
There’s no point in me commenting on today’s shambles because the cause of it is always the same; Martinez.

He should long ago have been sacked, but if that happens nothing will change with immediate effect because the players are visibly weaker in just about every way than their opponents are, week after week after week. For a new manager to get them into shape will take ages, although we may just avoid sliding into a genuine relegation battle.

I really think that Martinez has long since "lost the dressing room" because last season in April the players openly said they had decided to play the old Everton way and this season they’ve again said they’ve had words with the manager. In any other club this more than infers the manager has lost their confidence.

But as professional footballers they need to maximise their potential, for money and, erm, pride, and to do that they need to be selected to play by the manager. Once selected they need to play as he tells them, or they get dropped to their personal cost. In many matches this season and last I’ve seen our players look dispirited, angry and scared as they try to adapt to Martinez’s mantra because they know, they surely know, what everyone else in football knows.

.... And if anyone’s still wondering, it’s that Martinez is crap.

David Price
358 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:08:18
No brainer, next Manager, Ronald Koeman...
Ross Edwards
359 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:10:07
Awful performance. 10 wins in 31 at home, 1 win in 10 Premier League games, 18 in 61, 39 wins in 99, the most goals conceded at home this season, 8 points off relegation.

Statistics that provide a damning indictment of the incompetence of this man. He's absolutely clueless. Wednesday is massive for him. If we lose and go out that's it. It's the League Cup or bust.

The Martinez supporters say 'Wait, be patient, he's building something special, give him time' etc. How long are we supposed to wait? Three seasons is more than enough time to judge a manager and we are going backwards. This 'something special' should have come this season.

This was the perfect opportunity to finish top 4. Liverpool are inconsistent with a load of flops, Man Utd are atrocious under Van Gaal, yet they beat us 3-0, and the likes of City and Arsenal are inconsistent.

With this 'most talented' squad since the 80s apparently, and no Europe to hinder us, there were no excuses for Martinez to fall back on. We should be pushing for top 4 now and at a minimum be in the top 6, yet instead we're in mid table, in the same situation as last season.

He hasn't changed and he won't. The next 3 games are crucial for him now. If we go out of both cups and fail to beat Newcastle, he is surely finished. No other top side would be as loyal to him as this.

There's no pressure on him at all. He's in the safest job in the country and he knows it. He can stumble around and continuously make the same mistakes over and over again knowing that he won't be sacked. It's not acceptable and this run of form is not good enough.

Lose on Wednesday, that's it. Finished. Adios. A lot of fans will turn on him if that happens.

Andy Meighan
360 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:18:54
Colin (#332), I'm so glad I read what you said. I said it today at the game and some fella give me a look like I'd just raped his mother.

Up until Xmas, Lukaku looked the part; since the inevitable links came via the gutter press he's done jack shit. I'm sick to fucking death of hearing at the game and off most of my mates, if I'm honest. "Oh the service is shit, oh he's feeding off scraps"...

Not today in the 2nd half, he didn't: balls were played into areas where a so-called world class striker would thrive on them. Not Lukaku... he spewed it after an hour when he knew the impressive Williams had him in his pocket.

That said, he needs a partner alongside him as the lone striker role doesn't obviously suit him. But I'm afraid he's believing his own press. He's never been short of confidence has our Rom. The trouble is, he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. Or some of our fans, for that matter...

Ray Said
361 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:19:00
Strange comments from RM – does he want to keep the players but change the fans at Goodison?

Unusual approach.. although it worked at Wigan where the players did stay and the fans stopped turning up.

Can he please remove his head from his arse?

Derek Thomas
362 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:33:38
I was watching Foxtel and looking at the live forum as well. It was nearly midnight were I was and Monday morning tomorrow. I said, when they scored, "That’s it -– nobody’s really interested, they’ve all got the cup on their minds..." If they're not bothered – then I’m not... Half-time then bed for me.

From the kick-off, it looked like they had been told to do the bare minimum, save energy and hit them on the break... hence Del AND Kev. Wise decision, except I lay awake wondering how much longer are we going to endure this shite Philosophy.

Besic; he did exactly the same vs Chelsea; bust a gut for 3/4s of the length of the pitch then pulled up lame soon after.

Most, if not all of Moyes’s Physios jumped or were pushed. Haven’t seen any Improvement with this new Supremo either. We’re still Hammy Central...

It’s going to take some monumental effort on Wednesday. But this being Everton I can see us going out on some obscure away goals shenanigans.

Sooner somebody bites the bullet on this manager, the better.

Christy Ring
363 Posted 24/01/2016 at 21:42:20
Bob has to go now. He’s totally clueless. He sends out a team with no shape, no balance and no bite whatsoever. He has lost the plot and we’re in freefall.

Carragher is right, all this playing the ball out of defence, instead of clearing our lines, is costing us dearly, especially with Howard No 1, and Martinez is too arrogant to change.

Gavin Johnson
364 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:00:57
I don’t see Martinez leaving any time soon while Bill’s still at the helm.

Today I had the epiphany moment where I stopped believing. We've seen fleeting glimpses of what we are capable of, like in the 1st leg in the League Cup against Man City. But by-and-large, we don’t live up to the promise and flatter to deceive, persisting with this high pressing game.

As others have alluded to, sometimes we just need to punt the ball up the field or into Row Z instead of always passing back and playing from the back. GKs are like an extra outfield player these days and Tim Howard is no sweeper. You’d think Roberto would have realised this a long time ago, but still he persists with playing him.

Personally I think the Yank takeover will happen. The talks have gone quiet because neither party is allowed to comment until after the 28-day period where the John Jay Moores consortium have the exclusivity of looking at the books.

If it happens, I think they’ll bring someone else in as manager, unless we win on Wednesday which might give Martinez until the summer.

If we do bring in a new manager, I hope it's not some left-field appointment you sometimes see when foreign owners buy a club. I think the profile of the manager we bring in will have a lot to do with how much they’re willing to invest. Jose Mourinho would be a statement of intent but, as others posters have mentioned, Koeman and Eddie Howe would also be good appointments IMO.

Ray Robinson
365 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:06:50
Martinez is going nowhere as long as we are in the Capital One Cup.

What makes some Blues think that the likes of Koeman or Howe would leave their clubs to come to Everton anyway?

Clive Lewis
366 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:10:00
Team is good. Roberto is half a manager. He is clearly out of his depth, and likely to cost the club £10 million in Premier League places. Get rid now and we might be able to save our club from relegation and massive financial losses.

A new manager could probably increase our league position by £5 or 6 million. Worth the payoff.

Michael Evans
367 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:13:40
Gutless display

The ARROGANCE of RM really is shocking !

Watched the game on Sky .... really sad thing for me was the crowd seemed that they'd almost given up.

Gavin Johnson
368 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:22:48
Ray - You don’t think its an Evertonians dream to manage their club?! Eddie Howes an Everton supporter. He’d also be adopting a very talented group of players. I think he’d want the job at the drop of hat. So would many other managers.

As for Koeman. I think Saints are treading water a bit this season. Much like ourselves and I think he could be persuaded if new owners gave promises of investment.

I think it would be even possible to bring in Mourinho if the new owners have a clear plan of building us a new ground. Of course I think we’d be more likely to have Eddie Howe as manager, but I’d be very happy at that appointment.

The worst case scenario for ant incoming manager is that Rom and Stones will be off, but look on the bright side. The new manager potentially has £100M to build a team.

Sorry, but I think you’re running us down a little there, Ray.

Jon Withey
369 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:25:34
I'll take the mantel of Martinez apologist but I can't defend today. Not sure what else to say – he's got us in a very sticky situation for the second season in a row.
Ray Robinson
370 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:35:43
Gavin – not running us down at all. I didn’t realise Howe was a Blue. I do know that he beat a hasty retreat down South after a short spell at Burnley and that, despite his apparent former allegiance, Bournemouth is seen as his special project. Koeman could be a possibility, I suppose, but, as you say, if we lost our better players, how would that be any different than at Southampton?

Forget, Mourinho – in his eyes, we really are small fry. He can’t manage without a mega budget, and, besides, I wouldn’t want him anyway.

Kevin Tully
371 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:43:14
Unless we go on to win the League Cup, Martinez's position is fast becoming untenable. It seems the manager is happy to put his trust in a group of young players, but unfortunately, it won't work at Premier League level. As we've witnessed all season, every mistake is punished in this League.

Lose on Wedenesday, and Martinez should be relieved of his duties. A cup win can buy him a little more time, but we also have to rapidly improve on our current position in the

Saying that, I don't believe he will ever be sacked as long as we stay out of the bottom three. The ambition of our owners is to simply survive in the Premier League whilst they wait for their pay-day.

Does anyone think Martinez has received a call tonight telling him his job is on the line? No, neither do I.

Gavin Johnson
372 Posted 24/01/2016 at 22:52:38
Ray - I always remember Mourinho having a soft spot for us saying very positive things about us in the press. That said, his view of us has probably soured after last summer and he did go all Rafa Benitez calling us a small club, but I don’t blame him.

I think the Stones saga was a contributing factor for him losing it this season. Who’d have ever thought we'd have won a mind games battle against a master like Mourinho.

I think you’re right about Mourinho. I only think he could be a possibility if any potential owners wanted to actually take us to the next level instead than settling for top 6-8 finishes.

Dick Fearon
373 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:05:01
If Mourinho came, the first thing he’d do is get rid of Lukaku.
Frank Thomas
374 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:19:43
Now I know why Wigan were relegated. Martinez has one aim and that is to win silverware. The comments in the papers all ask why does he constantly change players from game to game?

Today Jags is rested and yet again the whole defence has a new line up why? So Jags can play on Tuesday. If we don’t get those two positions back that decision will have cost us over £6M+
Our spell in Europa last year chasing silverware cost us at least £10M in lost income from the Premier Leaguep. I hope his chase of League Cup silverware does not cost us our premiership status

Who could replace him and guarantee success? I think it has to be Mark Warburton look at his brief but impressive past and current performance

To quote one line on Warburton’s recruitment policy "which would include recruitment being based on mathematical modelling and statistics allied to normal scouting methods" Makes a change to Martinez’s "I wanted to buy him a few years ago" or "he has played for me in the past (like Kone)."

Alan McGuffog
375 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:20:28
I am not a great fan of Howard. I think he is a poor keeper. That said, he was not culpable for that fiasco of a first goal.

I feel a little sorry for Stones. Had he displayed the arrogance and slipshod attitude that he has done in recent weeks in a team that included, say, Jimmy Gabriel or Tony Kay or Johnny Morrisey or Peter Reid or Dave Watson or Psycho Pat he would have emerged from the tunnel in the second half today with a thick ear. And he would be a better player for it.

Even Beckenbauer knew where row Z was.

Si Cooper
376 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:20:32
You could have almost forgiven the inept first half display if they had come out as if they were looking to get the equaliser early in the second half. Instead we just let the time slowly leak away whilst making few top class chances or testing their keeper.

Besic has shown the way to control the tempo of a game in the last few games and once he was off it became all too deliberate again. We made some decent chances but needed to do it many times more than we did.

Disappointed that Tom Cleverley ended up squeezed into left hand-side almost treading on toes of Pienaar and Baines. He needed drop back towards Barry and to switch to backing that pair up and letting them be the creative ones much earlier than he did.

Oviedo is just too left-footed to play on the right, and I think that affected Stones decision making on the ball at times today. Far too much went through Stones today. We have seen some decent longer balls to Lukaku open up games recently and that tactic was pretty much abandoned for no reason that I could see today.

Really not looking forward to rest of the week now.

Geoff Evans
377 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:33:01
The manager and his team are a fucking joke.
Garry Corgan
378 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:42:44
Just how low down in the league do we have to get before the backlash against Martinez, and the rumours of his dismissal, start? 14th? 16th? 18th?

We're now a point off 14th and four off 16th. It would only take a couple more bad results before Martinez position really must become untenable. But who the hell is sailing out particular ship at the moment anyway? Kenwright is absent. Woods is silent and Earl is the invisible man.

Peter Thistle
379 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:52:36
Thanks Stones, you lost us that game with your cockyness. You ain’t Bobby Moore. Just get rid.

Also think it’s time to change formation because the players we have can’t handle it. 4-2-3-1 leaves us there to be carved open. Much prefer to see 4-3-2-1.

C'mon Everton learn to fucking defend!

Colin Gee
380 Posted 24/01/2016 at 23:55:00
It’s a big week in the history of our great club, by this time next week we could be in a Wembley Final and the 5th Round of the FA Cup, or we could just have a relegation fight to look forward to.

My biggest fear is that it is the second one....

Oliver Molloy
381 Posted 24/01/2016 at 00:03:22

I can’t see Man City letting us away with another one. We are utter garbage and they will go for the jugular, make no mistake.

Joe Duffin
382 Posted 25/01/2016 at 00:14:52
I agree with most of the views of Stones, bringing problems upon the team – but the first goal was Howard's fault. It looked like he didn't expect the ball, he was in slow motion to react and then took a back swing longer than McIlroy.

Only consolation for Wednesday is Robles is back – also, I can see Martinez putting McCarthy in too early.

Just one more good performance, that’s all we ask for (for now!)

Andrew Keatley
383 Posted 25/01/2016 at 00:21:26
We missed Steven Naismith today. He might have gotten on the end of one of Deulofeu’s crosses.

A lot of people on here seem to be angry with John Stones. I can understand why – we just lost another game, and are consistently conceding bad goals. But I’m still of the opinion that John Stones is the best prospect we’ve had at this club since Wayne Rooney (who as a youngster was a one-off) and Stones (barring injury) will go on to be one of the very best central defenders in the world game for the next ten years.

We are definitely hurting right now; the volume of posts shows that. But the mistakes Stones made today – and in recent games – are symptomatic of much more than a young player with a "cocky attitude" taking risks; he’s trying to continue to play his natural game in a side of players who are consistently under-achieving, lacking in movement and energy, and seemingly afraid of the Goodison crowd. I hope Stones continues to play his natural game as I believe it will benefit the team in the long term.

Jim Hardin
384 Posted 25/01/2016 at 01:01:38
Darren and Mike,

I asked what information I provided was wrong? Since you provided none, I will take it that my points were valid and you are just wearing your anti-Howard blinders. Fact is, if the poor pass isn't ever made by Stones, we don't have the conversation correct?

BTW, the ball in that instance had already been played forward and then the typical back pass from the midfield area occurred. This is nothing to so with playing out of the back, that part had been accomplished. It was a pass back to Stones and he bungled it.

I will keep on coaching and training Gks though thank you for the advice.

Mark Pridgeon
385 Posted 25/01/2016 at 01:19:03
We are the new Wigan. Sorry RM has to go, this is a disgrace.
Teddy Bertin
386 Posted 25/01/2016 at 02:15:44
No leadership on the pitch again and maybe that reflects the manager, however Moyes made Jags captain, who is a dreadful communicator. However, for everyone saying that they could manage the team better or put Big Dunc in charge, you guys are morons. Martinez has brought players to this team that we could never have dreamed of a few years ago. Who are we going to get in, unless the club is sold? Give the guy another season and I imagine we’ll get closer to winning a cup than Moyes ever did. Martinez won the FA cup with no money. What did Moyes ever win with double the budget at Everton?

Sadly I think there are many who enjoy making Goodison a poisonous atmosphere in order to cost Martinez his job, whereas the majority of us who travel away appreciate the shift that the boys put on. I don’t think we have much influence but Goodison is becoming an away ground for us this season and we can kiss goodbye to keeping hold of gems like john Stones, who gets worse and worse every time I see at Goodison. Why would any of these players, who are being courted by others want to keep playing at Goodison after this season. Even Barkley must be hoping someone offers him big money to get away.

Sometimes I wonder whether people on here would rather Martinez lose every game just to see him gone, rather than win something and get beat along the way. Liverpool nearly drew 4-4 to a bottom club after spending hundreds of millions and bringing in a top manager. Chelsea won the league and are now in the bottom half. Man Utd have spent over £200 mill on their team and they’re awful. What do people expect?

This league is nightmare. At least we have a young squad, a manager that plays positive footballs, some England internationals and some quality players. I for one would take this season over anything I’ve seen here in the last 20 years.

Those who want big Dunc in or Malky Mackay or whatever you think we can attract, be careful what you wish for. We’re only a bad manager away from being Villla or Newcastle.

Anto Byrne
387 Posted 25/01/2016 at 02:24:49
Moyes had his chance and was a bottler. Martinez it seems is a slow learner. Had enough time at Wigan to learn the ropes. We do play attractive football but it does not win games, so how about a change in direction. Build a solid defense would be a good place to start.
Harold Matthews
388 Posted 25/01/2016 at 02:47:53
I’ve moaned about Stones for two and a half years but the lad has talent and will hopefully develop a sense of urgency and improve. Unfortunately, the Martinez philosophy encourages his cool slow style and the high praise from fans and fellow professionals has caused him to over elaborate when on the ball.

The Chelsea business and Pique picking him for his World XI didn’t help. He needs a tough, no nonsense defensive coach and, apart from Unsworth, I can’t think of any at the club.

Jack Mason
389 Posted 25/01/2016 at 02:57:52
Teddy, let me tell you what a poisonous attitude is mate:

Four thousand fans from the main stand throwing their seat cushions onto the pitch; Howard Kendall waking up to find graffiti on his garage door; Trevor Steven being confronted, whilst taking a corner, as a fecking traitor; Peter Reid being told from the Lower Bullins he’s a useless cunt and should feck off...

Ahh, but that was when we had different expectations.

And by the way, they were heroes to me and to all Evertonians who watched them. But you can’t kid us, it’s tough at the top and when your time is up or you’re not giving 100% or incapable of it.

It’s time to go. Stop blaming the crowd or it’s intimidating atmosphere, the ferocity will make or break you. It has and always will be, our biggest strength.

James Marshall
390 Posted 25/01/2016 at 04:12:31
Teddy@386 well said mate.

I agree that people spent years whinging about watching turgid football, with run of the mill, journeyman players, and now we have a young, exciting, dynamic team of energetic young footballers who ARE going to make mistakes.

Of course results are not great, but we rarely get beat either. I agree Martinez needs to be given at least one more season, and the typical ’get rid’ or ’shithouse’ comments don’t really say very much other than anger over a defeat.

Constant blaming, laying into our own players, creating a terrible, negative atmosphere at Goodison doesn’t do anything for our players at all. I have no desire to go to the Old Lady anymore, because the atmosphere is shit – away games have always been more fun, but nowadays they’re WAY more fun than home games.

I also agree that the PL is now way more competitive than ever before, and this season has shown loads of weird results and odd league positions. It’s fine margins in every game that have cost us, way more than teams dominating us or forcing us to play badly. I actually think we’ve been playing well all season, and all bar a few weird things happening (fine margins) we could just as easily be around the European places.

Football is about entertainment, and love him or loathe him, Martinez certainly brings that.

James Marshall
391 Posted 25/01/2016 at 04:14:46
Oh and one other thing – to all the moaners having a pop at John Stones; the kid is a Rolls Royce, a quality footballer and you’re all welcome to the likes of Robert Huth, or some other clogger.

I’ll take the cultured kid with class any day. Long may he continue to play the way he does.

Derek Thomas
392 Posted 25/01/2016 at 04:21:01
Harold @388 It wouldn’t bother me one jot if;

a) Martinez got the ’Taxi’ ride tomorrow. Or that.

b) Unsworth got the job until the end of the season at least, with Sheedy as his assistant. As I hear good things about the way they set their teams to play. Bearing in mind that as an underling at the moment he has to adhere to the Martinez party line as much as possible. He was nothing if pragmatic as a player, but still not averse to football when you need to and Row Z when you have to.

Ferguson? Well at the moment he’s hiding his light under a very big bushel.

Darren Hind
396 Posted 25/01/2016 at 05:09:33
Jim Hardin

I just don't think you get it. There is no "anti-Howard" thing going on, EVERY Evertonian is desperate for him to play well, he is our last line of defence and if he plays badly, we will inevitably loose.The thing is; he is and we are. You either refusing or you are incapable of seeing it.

The reason the fans cheered sarcastically when he caught a simple one, is they had witnessed his total lack of courage and conviction when faced with a ball that he was massively favourite to get. . .They were yards away and could see just how much ground the Swansea player made up. Your boy cowered and took a step backwards.
He shows an ounce of courage . . and we are not having this conversation - again.

Barkley has been heavily criticised, Stones is getting slaughtered, Last week, it was Jagielka and Duelofeu, the week before, it was Barry. You seem to he having this debate every week with somebody different. why ? because you are the only person who fails to see the one common denominator.

We played our footie in the street when we first started and most us didn't get any coaching at all until we started school when we were five, but anyone here will tell you, that one of the first things they were taught is to not wait for the ball to reach you, you ALWAYS moved to meet it. Many members of this site would have coached at some level themselves, even if it was only their own lads team and the first thing they would have passed on to their payers, would be to not wait for the ball. It's one of the fundamentals of the game. You can not win a game of football standing still.

Tim Howard would not be the first player to commit this "crime". He wasnt even the first to do it in this match . . but if this is not just pig headedness on your behalf and you REALLY didnt see him do anything wrong yesterday, I'm afraid to have to tell you, but, You have no business coaching anybody

Jack Mason
397 Posted 25/01/2016 at 05:24:30
This "young, exciting, dynamic team of energetic young footballers" agree with that, problem is at least two of them are already playing with a move away from the club in mind. We should enjoy them while they’re here, right? Accept the learning curve.

Since when did we become a feeder club for, Man Utd, Man City, Barcelona et al...? Of course we could all sit in the stands singing Kumbaya, it’s meaningless. The reality is, unless the aspirations are met of these potential world class players, they’ll be gone. It’s a brutal results based business. All the good faith in the world is not going to change that.

What might change that however is good management and that’s where the buck lies.

Darren Hind
398 Posted 25/01/2016 at 05:28:22
James Marshall #391

Couldn't agree more.
Waking up to headlines screaming Barca, Real Madrid, City and Chelsea are locked in a four way battle for your signature with a suggested fee of 50m would unsettle even the most experienced of pro's. Fuck knows where young Stones's head must be at the moment.
Youngsters are allowed to have poor games, Youngsters under this sort of media scrutiny, should be expected to have them. His determination not to be ruffled, seems to be clouding his judgement

I didnt think I could dislike Sourness or Jaimielar anymore, but having just witnessed them slaughter the kid on Sky, I think I do

Dave Ganley
399 Posted 25/01/2016 at 05:56:25
Ah Teddy, thanks for putting me right in a few issues. Theres me thinking it was the players rubbish performances that is costing Martinez his job when in fact it was us all along. Doh, its purely down to our vitriolic poison that we spout week after week that is the catalyst for awful performances for the last 2 years.

We are obviously not as knowledgeable as you and your chums who travel away. I keep on forgetting that we such be grateful for witnessing such shite week after week and in fact we should be lauding the fact that the players actually deign to put on their boots to actually run on the hallowed turf. I am particularly grateful for reminding me how lucky we are to witness the posturing of young Pele....erm sorry John Stones, see the purring of the engine of young Alan Ball....erm sorry again young Barkley.....the two are so alike I get confused....good job you are here to put me right.

We obviously have no idea at all of how football should be played. We should actually be comparing ourselves to the terrible RS team and say well we are ok. Erm think youre actually forgetting they won.

Truth is Teddy, and you too James Marshall, we are awful and there is nobody to blame but Martinez for making the shocking atmosphere at Goodison Park. The players get away with murder and I for one am sick of it. Yes the players are talented but rarely show it and stroll through the game oblivious to any kind of urgency to win the game, that is when they have the energy to do so before collapsing after 60 minutes. Sorry guys you are deluded and in a minority of 2

Phil Sammon
400 Posted 25/01/2016 at 06:04:24
It's nice to see the majority are siding with Stones re the backpass. I was in a minority of one on the live forum with everyone else saying that he left Howard with no chance.

I've watched it and watched it again. Ayew makes about 12 yards on Howard...and Howard gave him another 5 by running in the wrong direction.

If a keeper isn't expecting a backpass in that situation then I'm afraid he's in the wrong job. He should have been on his toes, ready to go.

Stones was poor yesterday and is certainly not above criticism, but that one for me was 100% Howard.

Chris Leyland
401 Posted 25/01/2016 at 07:07:59
Phil how can it be 100% Howard's fault? Why was Stones fannying around in that area of the pitch in the first place? Did Howard make him do that? In the pre-march warm up did he take Stones aside and say " Listen Stonsey, if you get the ball near the corner of your own area don't under any circumstances try and clear it away from danger just make an under hit back pass to me instead."

I know it is fashionable to hate Howard and he is certainly been poor for a while and does take a share of the blamr for the goal but Stones shite back pass is typical of his casual attitude and over-inflated opinion of his own ability. He needs to learn how to defend first anf foremost and stop trotting around thinking he is the is at Barcelona.

Phil Sammon
402 Posted 25/01/2016 at 07:24:28
Because, Chris, Martinez does not want aimless punts up the field. It really is a case of keep the ball unless it absolutely HAS to go long. Stones tried to work the space, couldn’t, and as a last resort passed to Howard to punt it long.

I don’t know in what way it was a ’shite’ backpass. It was perfectly weighted for Howard to take two steps forward and clear his lines. The fact of the matter is that Howard didn’t see Ayew and was caught on his heels. That’s not Stones’s fault.

Jack Mason
403 Posted 25/01/2016 at 07:43:47
Phil, Stones had every opportunity to play the ball forward, from the second it arrived at his feet, he chose to turn and play it back. It was a hospital pass.

I’m the last person to stick up for Howard, but if he’d played that ball to me, the bollocking would have sent him with his tail between his legs back to Barnsley.

Ray Jacques
405 Posted 25/01/2016 at 08:19:40

When we reflect on this season once its completed and if RM has been removed from his position, one of the major issues that will be seen as a factor in his demise will be his refusal to drop Howard despite the goalkeeper costing us a goal perhaps every two games. I've been discussing the first goal yesterday with work colleagues (none are Evertonians unfortunately!!) who are neutral and to a man they all lay the blame with Stones.

He is a lovely footballer on the ball but his defending on a weekly basis is inconsistent. As our regular centre back and therefore an integral part of the third worst defence in the league he is culpable and should not be immune from criticism.

If he plays in the Euros and makes a mistake that costs England a game, just watch the national press turn on him. Conjecture, I know but if he plays then its likely to happen based on his performances for us this season.

Martin Mason
406 Posted 25/01/2016 at 08:37:40
Dave @355,

That depends on how you define 'run well'.

My view is that they’re run well within revenue limitations and nowhere near as badly as some on here would claim.

They have failed to find the correct buyer or inward investment but I don’t think that entity has existed so I personally don’t blame them for that.

Craig Walker
407 Posted 25/01/2016 at 09:07:01
I've had enough of Roberto now. He was a breath of fresh air when he came into the club but it's been downhill since the Arsenal away performance in his first season. We play some lovely stuff at times but we're too weak and we've been sussed out. The problem is that the atmosphere at Goodison is making it into a cauldron for the home team. Someone told me last week that his win percentages are worse than Walter Smith's. I haven't checked that yet.

In my opinion, we need to:

Sell Stones. We don't need Beckenbauer II. We need someone who'll make us rock solid and help us close games out.

Sell Barkley. I desperately want him to succeed but I've concluded that he's one of the most overrated Everton players I can remember. Too greedy. Doesn't get his head up enough. He doesn't go forward enough with conviction. He shoots over too often, or, even worse, doesn't shoot.

Sell the above whilst their stock is still high.

Get a new goalkeeper. I've been saying this for 4 seasons. Howard can have a good game (e.g. City away) but makes too many rickets and does not command his area well enough.

Get a Yarmolenko-type attacking midfield player to replace Barkley. Crucially, one that will get goals. We can't have central midfield players who don't score in the modern game.

Use the money to replace Kone, McGeady and Naismith with better equivalents.

It is so frustrating because we are so close to having a great team and other teams are struggling. When will United, Chelsea and the RS be this bad again?

Stephen Jones
408 Posted 25/01/2016 at 09:22:27
I left the match thinking Groundhog Day again, I half expect Bill Murray to lead the team out next home game.

I have thought about the Stones issue all night and something I noticed at the game was the total lack of movement by our midfield and Lukaku to find any space and give Stones an option to forward pass the ball – hence he then either carries the ball forward himself or in yesterday’s game gets caught in a hole where the only option he had was to pass to the goalie.

Having watched the incident at the game and several times at home, IMO Howard was caught out not concentrating on the game and on his heels; he should have moved towards Stones to receive his pass and welly it up the field like most goalies would do... but Howard, I am afraid, is not capable of doing this.

If you remember the Cruyff turn by Stones when we in the Park end were told to "Calm Down", I was not screaming at Stones but at Howard who was stuck on his line like a Burton’s dummy. Stone’s must take some blame but ultimately it must be Roberto who must take responsibility as he sets out how we play each week?

Just an observation on the crowd being so quiet – this is down to how Roberto is sending out his team; it is like painting by numbers – so slow to pedestrian and no urgency at all. I sit there in my seat hoping and praying for something to get me excited and, like everyone around me, I suspect, until Bill grows a pair of balls, we are stuck with Roberto the con artist.

Harold Matthews
409 Posted 25/01/2016 at 09:44:27
Sorry Ray, I'm with Darren and Phil on this one. Stones could have hit it into touch but worked a way of keeping possession by stroking a simple backpass to Howard who had the time and space to push it forward.

Unfortunately, it also gave Tiger Tim time to think and that is never a smart move. Nothing to do with his age. I've never known him any different. As Darren suggested, the backpass would have gone unnoticed with any other keeper. The Stones mistake was not understanding Howard.

Of course, the main culprit in this sorry mess is the manager. With any other boss, Stones would have whacked the ball out of sight. Playing it out from the back has it's good points but not when the opposition have trained all week to deal with it.

Shane Corcoran
410 Posted 25/01/2016 at 09:58:48
I remember an El Classico game towards the end of Guardiola's reign at the Nou Camp where Valdes gifted Real an early goal. Barca were playing their normal style, playing it out out from the back, possession the key ingredient.

Barcelona turned the game around (not sure if it was a win or a draw) and Guardiola said the most important thing for him was that Valdes continued to play the same way throughout the remainder of the game when clearing every ball long would have been an easier option.

My point is that although Everton aren't Barcelona and Guardiola is open to criticism as much as anyone, I think Stones was right to play the ball back to Howard.

There was no need to clear it long and possibly lose possession. The pass to Howard was on, Howard is Martinez's number one so both manager and 'keeper understand the footballing philosophy being applied.

Where it falls down is that Howard wasn't on his toes, didn't go to the ball but rather waited on and the inexplicably didn't have the sense not to swing for the ball in the manner he did.

I'd feel sorry for Howard was it not for his utter arrogance in how good he thinks he is. This would be funny if it were any other club.

Mike Oates
411 Posted 25/01/2016 at 10:40:53
Don’t worry, lads – I just noticed Everton in 2nd place in Fair Play League behind Leicester, so that a Europa Cup place is almost tied up. I knew Martinez was top notch.

I can’t wait to start 2016-17 season on Jun 27th, it will give us another 3 weeks to bed in our new team as most will have left and Bill will be telling us all what a good choice he’d made in Roberto.

Eoin Cullen
412 Posted 25/01/2016 at 10:51:28
Let’s be fair, Stones and Howard were equally responsible for the cock up. One of them will become a very good player (but seems to think he is already); the other is way over the top.

It is so frustrating! RM is wasting what is potentially the best team we have had in the last 30 years. This is only going to end one of two ways. Either the American franchise takes over, sees what is happening and sacks RM... or we get relegated sometime in the next two seasons.

Jay Wood
413 Posted 25/01/2016 at 10:56:59
Teddy @ 386.

Nah! I’m not having that, from either you or the manager, that it is the home support to blame for poor results and performances at Goodison. If you haven’t noticed on your (meritous) away sojourns we don’t win many football matches – no matter whose turf we play on.

The, again meritous, League Cup run which puts us just 2 tantalizing games from our 1st silverware silverware in over 20 years is papering over the considerable cracks of our league results which have deteriorated over 18 months now. This is not a temporary ’blip’ or a run of ill fortune. This is a systemic and continued failing which is not being addressed, by the manager, his coaching staff or the players themselves.

I consider it astonishingly pompous of you, or anyone, to claim "I think there are many who enjoy making Goodison a poisonous atmosphere in order to cost Martinez his job" and that "sometimes I wonder whether people on here would rather Martinez lose every game just to see him gone, rather than win something and get beat along the way."

I regard that as a gross exaggeration which borders on defamation of both the match going blue and the views expressed here on TW.

Have YOU considered it is the endlessly numbing and largely insipid, anaemic performances that have totally subdued and anaesthetized the home crowd who have very little to cheer or get animated about?

You also throw in red herrings, claiming people want big Dunc or Malky McKay to replace Roberto, saying "be careful what you wish for. We’re only a bad manager away from being Villa or Newcastle."

That’s possibly true Teddy ... only ... have you considered Roberto may be THAT bad manager you speak of, doing just enough in the cup run to disguise how we are slipping down the table conceding heavily and throwing away winning positions on a regular basis?

And if you are serious in your concluding words, that you "would take this season over anything I’ve seen here in the last 20 years" then – I’m sorry, Teddy, my own conclusion is you have both a very poor memory and extremely low standards of what you expect from Everton Football Club.

Pete North
414 Posted 25/01/2016 at 11:42:26
Hear, hear, Jay. The fans have a right to expect professionalism on the part of the manager which includes paying proper attention to the c 50% of the game which is played when the opponent has the ball. Any worthy professional manager would note his dreadful defensive Premier League record over several years and take serious action to change the situation.

He hasn’t done so and worse, seems to have no intention of doing so. The fans have to show their dissatisfaction because there is no sign of the board dismissing him. We have two choices: voice our disapproval more and more loudly or turn our backs on the club.

Ian Hollingworth
415 Posted 25/01/2016 at 12:21:22
"We’re only a bad manager away from being Villla or Newcastle"

Unfortunately we already have that bad manager.
Lots of things in football are about opinion and they drive great debate on here. However the facts do not lie and the current facts are;

12 the in the table: P23 W6 D11 L6 F40 A34 Pts 29

1 (Yes ONE) win in the last 10 league games. That was against a team in the bottom 3 by the way.

If you then look at Martinez’s career stats it is quite clear that he is not a good enough manager for Everton FC.

I want more for Everton FC.

John Daley
416 Posted 25/01/2016 at 13:14:40
"I for one would take this season over anything I’ve seen here in the last 20 years."

Why would you (or anyone else) opt for this season over... say... the one just two seasons ago, when the same manager and predominantly the same players were working their way towards an impressive points haul and we weren’t forced to witness gut wrenching, unforced fuck-ups nigh on every game?

Gavin Johnson
417 Posted 25/01/2016 at 13:49:37
Jay #413

Something of a U-turn from you there. I seem to remember you saying something very contrary on another thread. That being, the fans shared some part of the blame for results for being quiet at home games, and some airy fairy argument about us transmitting bad psychic vibes to the players on the pitch.

Dave Pritchard
418 Posted 25/01/2016 at 13:55:20
Gavin, bad psychic vibes could be the next excuse for Roberto to use post-match.
Ray Roche
419 Posted 25/01/2016 at 13:58:40
Shane (#410),

The hospital ball Stones played to Howard was both unnecessary and too short. Howard would not have been in this discussion if Stones had tried the Row Z option for once instead of waiting for an opponent to get so close to him that his only choice was a ball back to Howard.

The fact that Howard "wasn’t on his toes" only removes the blame from where it should lie. Directly with Stones. His show pony behaviour is not needed all the time: it just, in his mind, makes him look good.

Dave Pritchard
420 Posted 25/01/2016 at 14:00:21
Just seen on the official site that our MotM was Ross Barkley!

[Typing this from the floor as a feather just hit me!]

Andrew Keatley
421 Posted 25/01/2016 at 14:19:02
It really is fascinating how divided people are on where the fault lies on the Stones pass to Howard – and pretty much everything else it would seem.

I think that the Stones pass wasn’t great; it certainly put Howard under pressure. The fact that it ended up in Howard clattering Ayew and conceding a penalty is (for me anyway) more the fault of Howard than Stones.

I think if Howard is on his toes then he clears it. I think if Howard notices Ayew running towards him then he either rushes to clear it – or opts out and at least avoids clattering Ayew. Basically, the Stones pass was bad, but for it to result in a penalty to Swansea is down to Howard.

Peter Carpenter
422 Posted 25/01/2016 at 14:19:16
Ray, just before they scored, Howard played a goal kick out to Stones who was under pressure and had to step into the box to play it back, forcing the referee to order a retake (wonder why that is not an indirect free-kick to the opposition?).

They are both guilty of poor decision making on the pitch but Martinez is more guilty of allowing these mistakes to keep happening, apparently given no direction at all to the players in training. He seems happy to accept the risk and he is the real culprit. He should go before he does serious damage.

Howard’s general decline is seen in the second goal. Look at the photo on the BBC website. Howard is virtually sitting down while the ball passes close to his right shoulder. He should go too.

Bill Gall
423 Posted 25/01/2016 at 14:50:15
Let's drop the Stones/ Howard argument – this happened over a period of 2 mins out of a 90-min game. Looking over the 90 mins, for the first 45 mins we played like a team of strangers just getting together for a pre-season game. Second 45 mins we played as if the manager said at half time, "Let;s go back to what we practiced" and that was the whole problem over the 90 mins.

Most teams who come to Goodison are aware that you have to play defensive and break out when you gain possession but it seems Swansea changed their tactics by playing possession football and pressing high up the pitch and that gave them the 1 goal. advantage. Second half they simply played defensive and broke out after winning the ball.

Shane Corcoran
424 Posted 25/01/2016 at 14:51:24
Ray #419, "Howard would not have been in this discussion if Stones had tried the Row Z option for once instead of waiting for an opponent to get so close to him that his only choice was a ball back to Howard."

This may be true Ray but this could be applied to every backpass. If the keeper fucks up then you can always say that the ball shouldn't have been passed back to him.

On further reflection I have however realised that even had Howard been on his toes, the only thing he was going to be able to do was launch the ball downfield, which is what Stones could have done in the first place.

So I would say that Howard was to blame for giving the penalty away but that Stones's decision to pass it to him was a poor one, all things considered.

Joe Foster
425 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:09:37
Amanda Holden could manage this team better than RM.
Peter Carpenter
426 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:09:44
Bill, teams know very well that if they press us high up the pitch, there is a good chance of getting a reward. It is the coaches responsibility to counteract this by changing tactics. Martinez changes nothing and gets the same disastrous results. He should go now.
Jay Wood
427 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:23:32
Gavin @ 417

"Jay #413 .... Something of a U-turn from you there. I seem to remember you saying something very contrary on another thread. That being, the fans shared some part of the blame for results for being quiet at home games, and some airy fairy argument about us transmitting bad psychic vibes to the players on the pitch."

Care to reference that Gavin? Because your recall is absolutely, totally, 100% WRONG,

I've never, EVER made such claims or called out the fans in the manner you attribute to me.

I look forward to receiving your retraction and apology.

Steavey Buckley
428 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:30:01
Everton fans are told that the current Everton squad is the best for a long time. Yet, 1 win in 10 games shows that not to be true or the manager does not know what he is doing.
Ray Roche
429 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:32:40
Peter (#422),

Peter, the ball has to leave the penalty area from a goal kick to be "in play" in much the same way that it has to travel the distance of one circumference of the ball before it is in play from a kick off.

True, Howard was culpable of poor passes to Stones in the incident that you refer to and in others as well and the sooner he is replaced the better, but I just don’t think that he was the main culprit for the penalty.


"This could be applied to every backpass."

Not really Shane, if the keeper fucks up then it’s his fault but if the pass is short and not really "on" then don’t blame him entirely. I agree that once the pass was made he could have done better but why do our defenders often pass back to him when we all know his distribution is crap? They, as outfield players with the ball at their feet, should be more capable than a dodgy keeper with a history of poor distribution. How many times does the ball go from an attacking position right back to Howard who then puts it into touch?

Joe Foster. Now you’re talking....

Gavin Johnson
430 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:35:55 did, Jay. I distinctly remember, because I had to pull you up on it at the time. It' okay, we're all allowed to change our view points.
Peter Carpenter
431 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:42:24
Ray, it was just a general thought about the goal kick rule. If a defender gains an advantage by deliberately stepping into the penalty area to play the ball in order to avoid being put under pressure by attacker, thus getting the kick retaken, I think it should be penalised with an indirect free-kick. I think I may suggest this rule change to someone in FIFA. They will probably give me a gift of $1.5 million.
Barry Jones
432 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:45:36
Darren Hind, Phil Sammon, I am 100% in agreement with your comments on the first goal. Howard's complete lack of motion (apart from backward motion) was the reason behind the goal. As Darren says, players are ALWAYS coached to come to meet a pass. It is a fundamental. Also Howard is facing upfield (or should be) and he is in a better position than Stones to clear the ball.

Yes the backpass wasn't strong, but if you were John Stones, would you really want to hit a firm backpass at Howard, knowing that about one in every two shots on target (with any kind of pace) ends up in the back of our net? Yes, those are the stats, especially in the box, where 50% of shots on our goal end up as a goal. This is the worst in the league.

So for those of you on here saying we should shut up about this goal as it was only a fraction of the game, you are wrong, as this incident is a reflection on the entire season. The goalkeeper is very poor to say the least. The defense has about zero confidence in him. His mistakes and goalkeeping inabilities alone are costing us dearly and that lack of confidence in him by the other players is impacting our play and results indirectly and directly. If you believe otherwise, then you are following the wrong sport.

Ray Roche
433 Posted 25/01/2016 at 15:49:04
Peter, $1.5m?

You deserve it.

There are plenty of changes I'd like to see brought in to speed the game up, for instance, and to cut out what is to my mind "authorised cheating" . If I could be arsed I'd write them down....especially for the kind of dosh you mentioned...

John Jones
434 Posted 25/01/2016 at 16:06:53
Is anyone else checking SSN and Newsnow hopefully wish to see the Martinez Sacked Exclusive?

They are the first 2 tabs I open before I start any work and the 2 that are constantly on all day.

Might even start saying a preying to the football gods before bed.

Ray Robinson
435 Posted 25/01/2016 at 16:14:51
How come people defend Stones for "retaining possession" instead of clearing the danger, when a back pass to the keeper would have resulted in a welly up-field anyway? What's the difference? It's not retaining the ball - it's merely shifting the responsibility - and onto a player who is not a specialist in outfield play anyway.

And come to think about it, Klopp has his principles like Martinez but it still doesn't stop him from pushing a big man upfront and going direct when circumstances dictate. I remember last year when the team abandoned the tippy tappy stuff for a while and the results improved no end. It just goes to prove there is no absolute right way to play a football match. The key to success is having a style of play but varying that play as required. Rigidly sticking to the same tactics all the time means that you soon get found out - and we've been well and truly rumbled at Goodison.

Stephen Jones
436 Posted 25/01/2016 at 16:31:09
James (#390) sorry but football is about results, not performances. This is what Mr Martinez stated on radio after the Bournemouth debacle.

Ask the Wigan fans what they would have preferred Results or performances?

Jay Wood
437 Posted 25/01/2016 at 16:47:43
Gavin @ 430.

" did, Jay. I distinctly remember, because I had to pull you up on it at the time. It’ okay, we’re all allowed to change our view points."

So, you can't reference it. No surprise there because of course you cannot attribute something to someone who has never as much as THOUGHT of what you ascribe to me, let alone actually write it and post it.

Of course, the devil might be in the detail and you mistook a post by Jay WOODS (note the ’s’ at the end) as one from me (Jay WOOD- note the ABSENCE of an ’s’ at the end).

Something you might have noticed if you weren’t so busy tripping over yourself in a rush into petty point scoring.

Here’s a novel idea for you. Rather than (falsely) calling out another poster, how about joining the debate and offering your opinion on Teddy (and the manager’s comments) on the team’s performances and the impact of the Goodison faithful..?

Gavin Johnson
439 Posted 25/01/2016 at 17:03:41
Jay Woods

I wouldn’t waste hours pouring over old threads to prove my point. That would be something you would do. I don’t come on TW to point-score. You should probably look in the mirror there.

It’s possible I have got you confused with a Jay Wood. Although I remember the reply being like something you would say... Are you sure it wasn’t you, Jay?!

It's an easy mistake. I don’t go out of my way to read your posts. If I have got you confused, my apologies, mate.

You don’t need to be so affronted and get your knickers in a twist because I dare attribute a comment to you. What will you do next. Contact lawyers for libel?!

Gavin Johnson
440 Posted 25/01/2016 at 17:07:46
Oh..Jay. It is Jay Wood. My apologies. I really do get you two mixed up. Are you the Jay who always uses their personal database of statistics for TW purposes?
Jay Wood
441 Posted 25/01/2016 at 17:47:47
Gavin, apology accepted.

No twisted knickers here. Just defending my name and opinions from your mud slinging which, from experience, is based on dodgy recall, preconceived prejudice, unsupported by hard evidence.

Still no opinion from you then on the points Teddy's post raised...?

Best leave it there then, eh?

Gavin Johnson
442 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:01:37
No, Jay. I totally agree with your post. I didn't agree with the other post made by Jay Wood/s on another thread that suggested the atmosphere at Goodison with fans panicking was somehow being subliminally transferred to the players creating a toxic atmosphere. Therefore it was somehow our fault and we should shoulder some of the blame for results.

This is an airy fairy argument and contradiction of your opening sentence on the post on this thread.

Darren Hind
443 Posted 25/01/2016 at 18:34:11
Brian Denton
444 Posted 25/01/2016 at 19:19:21
Too many Jays spoil the broth......
Geoff Williams
446 Posted 25/01/2016 at 20:42:30
A good manager would make the sum, in this case the team, better than the individual parts, the players. Martinez has succeed in producing a relegation threatened team from a potential top four team. He’s turned a silk purse into a sow’s ear.

I abhor the abuse being hurled at the likes of Stones and Barkley, even Howard come to that, but something has to change. If the chairman refuses to sack the manager then his coaching team has to go.

I simply can’t see where the next win will come from.

Jay Woods
447 Posted 25/01/2016 at 20:48:12
Chaps, I'm going to need a new online persona here to avoid confusion.

And yes, for the record, I once said that our fans wet themselves in the days before the derby games with Liverpool and transmit a negative vibe that I think our team picks up on. I stand by that assertion, but I never expanded it to refer to all our fixtures, regardless of the opposition.

Andy Crooks
448 Posted 25/01/2016 at 21:15:18
Jay Wood, that is an excellent post # 413. The arguments some posters come up with are quite astonishing. Malkey McKay?

I think it is the duty of supporters to question and criticise the temporary guardians. We will be here when they have gone. Blind support is not the only type of support.

Hannes Eerola
449 Posted 25/01/2016 at 21:17:09
With RM at the helm, EFC has become the most frustrating team to watch in the Premier League, just because of the knowledge that things could be so much better ringing inside of your head.

And you know things wont change either. It is so frustrating and depressing you produce 29 sighs. In 23 seconds. At 12 o'clock in the night when you read about how frustrated fellow fans are at the situation.
Jamie Crowley
450 Posted 25/01/2016 at 23:16:41
Harold Matthews -

You say:

Of course, the main culprit in this sorry mess is the manager. With any other boss, Stones would have whacked the ball out of sight.

I’m not sure about that. Funes Mori blasts the ball into Row Z frequently. Stones holds it far too long.

I’m not saying Howard isn’t to blame partially, but John Stones has shown multiple times he holds the ball entirely too long and fucks around in very, very bad positions on the pitch. We have another defender in Funes Mori who does not.

Not sure about blaming Roberto for the Stones pass... especially watching Funes Mori crush the thing out of the park time and again when it calls for it.

Joe Clitherow
451 Posted 26/01/2016 at 09:04:23

The point though, with absolute crystal clarity, is that the manager and his staff need to correct that natural behaviour by coaching and highlighting where a particular situation needs a different application, i.e. other than Stones’s or anyone else’s natural instincts.

Surely that is the definition of coaching – to change or enhance natural instinct for the better? If not what are we paying him to do?

Whether Martinez instructs that behaviour or fails to correct it is is irrelevant as the outcome is the same. Either way it comes down to him eventually surely?

Jamie Crowley
452 Posted 26/01/2016 at 15:01:23
Joe -

Begrudgingly agree. ;0)

I think this situation falls in the "fix it" category.

He an immense talent and needs to be told to knock it off.

Jim Hardin
453 Posted 26/01/2016 at 22:18:55
Ray Robinson,

Valid point on defending but probably lost on most on here. The other issue is the postiion to which the pass was played. Howard was facing sideways out towards Stones, not down the field like Stones was when he received the pass from the midfield. With a player closing him down from directly in front of the ball, Howard having to come out for the ball facing directly at the sideline, could only have played it out wide and out for a throw in within the 18.

To suggest he could have hoofed it down the field is ludicrous due to the oncoming Swansea player. Hoofing it down the field could likely result in the ball possibly being deflected into goal or in front of it, or to another Swansea player, or out for a corner. Once again, a defender should never pass the ball back to the keeper or any player if that player will be in a worse position as a result.

Dave Blue
454 Posted 28/01/2016 at 22:26:27
Speaking as a long time fan, ultimate hero the fabulous Johnny Morrissey, and having suffered through many Everton managers since the immortal Harry Catterick.... I would say that RM is by no means the worst manager in that time, and actually I would place him third only to Harry C and Howard K.

The reason is that, in a pretty short period of time, he has brought in some really fine players, like DelBoy, and brought along multiple players like Stonesy and Barkley who have made Everton a serious pleasure to watch. For the first time in a very long time, Everton the School of Science.

Okay, it would be nice to win the Premier League and the FA Cup (and who cares about the Mickey Mouse Cup?), but without a billionaire owner, that’s rather unlikely, so what’s left is to play nice football that is pleasing to the eye. Compare our football these days to the dreary stuff being turned out across the park, and I think we have got a great deal to thank DM for.

What is seriously daft is to call for the man’s head based on the results of individual matches... "If we don’t beat Carlisle, he has to go". Harry Catterick won 3 major trophies (and 2 Charity Shields) in 13 years in an era without the megamoney that DM has to face.... and we loved Harry for it. So let’s calm down, accept reality, and enjoy the ride of some nice footy for a few more years.

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