Enough is Enough. Time to Go.

Roberto Martinez promised to make Evertonians proud before the Merseyside derby. Instead, Blues fans were served up utter humilation in the worst arena possible, his Everton side disgraced at the home of rivals Liverpool.

Lyndon Lloyd 21/04/2016 378comments  |  Jump to last
Liverpool 4 - 0 Everton

Roberto Martinez promised to make Evertonians proud before this evening's Merseyside derby. Instead, Blues fans were served up utter humilation in the worst arena possible, his Everton side disgraced at the home of rivals Liverpool.

It was repeated like a mantra in the days leading up to the first of two huge games in Everton's recent history — "we want to make our fans proud" — but those brave Blue souls who stood dejected to the bitter, sorry end in the away section had to endure mocking chants from delirious reds as Jurgen Klopp's rejuvenated team turned the closing stages into an evening kick-around.

Everton were down to 10 men and losing 4-0 at Anfield for the second time in just over two years. Ramiro Funes Mori had become the third Everton player in seven games to be given his marching orders from the referee, depriving Martinez of one of his only two fit centre halves. The other, John Stones, would follow him down the tunnel not long afterwards having gifted the ball to the opposition for the third goal and then, apparently, complained of stomach pains. It was nothing compared to the sick feeling in their guts of Evertonians who, even in their most pessimistic pre-derby mood probably couldn't have imagined things collapsing in quite so farcical a manner.

Precious little forward momentum, only a modicum of the requisite passion and belief required of such an occasion, zero shots on target, worryingly under kosh... and that was just the first 40-odd minutes with the scores level at 0-0 and Everton with their full complement on the field. It would get much worse, and embarassingly so.

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Then they conceded two goals that had "Martinez regime" written all over them — acres of space afforded to the man crossing the ball, flat-footed defending and two simple headers; the first from Divock Origi and the second by Mamadou Sakho given the freedom of Anfield in the six-yard box nod home. It was, essentially, game over by first-half stoppage time; the fight long gone out of this Everton team under Martinez; the Catalan cross-armed and helpless on the touchline; his verbal battles now fought by his Assistant, Graeme Jones.

Gareth Barry, back in the side to tie the Premier League record for starts, was withdrawn at half time in favour of Muhamed Besic, a groin injury piling on the problems for Wembley on Saturday. After Funes Mori was shown a straight red for a late stamp on Origi's ankle, Ross Barkley was also hooked, the white flag raised by the manager with dreaded thoughts turning already to the cup semi-final that could yet be the death knell for Martinez if he isn't out of a job before then.

If Simon Mignolet touched the ball at all in the second period, it would come as news to Everton supporters. That the Reds weren't 4-0 up by the interval and that they didn't treble the 2-0 lead they took into the break was largely down to Joel Robles, who made some fine saves to deny Adam Lallana and Roberto Firmino in particular, and some poor finishing by Klopp's front line. Nevertheless, Liverpool got it together up front on the hour mark to carve the Blues wide open and present an easy chance to Daniel Sturridge to slot home. And Coutinho's accurate low drive from the edge of the box a few minutes later was well-placed beyond the Everton 'keepers reach to complete the rout.

Of the rest, Barry perhaps excepted, there was nothing much positive to say. Bryan Oviedo, at sea as an emergency right back, suffered through one of the worst individual displays in living memory. Romelu Lukaku, the only player in Blue to come close to scoring when he was tackled at the crucial moment by Sakho, was reduced to strolling around as a spectator up front. Aaron Lennon and Kevin Mirallas, game enough in the early going where the Belgian had two shots from outside the box that missed the target, chased shadows.

Anyone who remembers the last days of Walter Smith will remember the feeling when a manager's tenure enters a death spiral from which, by definition, he can never recover. This feels every bit like that — hopeless; the speed of descent escalating. Martinez has tried vainly to stress that he and his players would be fighting for every remaining point in the Premier League, words devoid of substance, born either of self-preservation or delusion, because, just like last season, the league campaign was lost weeks ago.

His team selection this evening at least backed up his words; Everton were as strong as they could be given the key injuries to Phil Jagielka and Seamus Coleman. That everything unravelled as spectacularly as it did with that line-up is, sadly, damning of a managerial stint that has run its course.

In stark contrast to their hosts on the night, this Everton team lacks fitness and organisation. As Funes Mori's red card, petulant booting of the ball away and misguided grabbing of the crest as he walked off towards the tunnel all showed, it also lacks discipline.

Recent performances and some damning goals for and against statistics in the last 30 minutes of matches suggest they're not fit enough, that they don't fight enough, that they're not clinical enough, and that the mentality of the side is simply all wrong. These players are no longer playing for the manager and when that happens, it's over.

While there is plenty of blame to go around among the players, all of it comes back to the manager. He sets the tone and the psychology; he makes decisions over training, tactics and strategy; he helps oversee the fitness regimes and requirements of his players; he picks the teams and makes the substitutions..

It is Martinez's dereliction of duty that has left Everton without a back-up right back for the best part of two seasons; that there are only three fit and available first-team-grade central defenders; that the crucial influence of Steven Pienaar in his prime still hasn't been replaced; that this club has relied on Arouna Koné as back-up to Lukaku and that Steven Naismith's replacement looks, on the evidence to date, to have been one of the most spectacular transfer miscalculations in the club's history.

For all of those reasons — tonight's abject surrender was merely the crowning turd in the water pipe — Everton must call time on the Martinez era, preferably as soon as possible. In nominal control of the club, it's unlikely Bill Kenwright will be as daring or decisive as to act so soon before an FA Cup semi-final but he should be. Based on what Evertonians witnessed at Anfield this evening, Martinez's removal could be the club's best and only hope of beating United this weekend because the belief has clearly vanished from this side. A quick and immediate shot to the arm from a temporary appointee — Royle, Sheedy, Unsworth; take your pick or all three — could make the difference between yet more Wembley heartache and a chance to salvage glory from this frustrating mess of a season.

Certainly there doesn't seem to be any point in dragging out his tenure any longer beyond that. Evertonians have seen more than enough over the past two seasons for the vast majority to now be convinced that it's simply not working; that whatever magic Martinez brought in his first season has long since evaporated. It's desperately sad for someone who seems to be a stand-up gentleman and has been a terrific ambassador to Everton FC but the short-, medium- and long-term well-being of this football club is paramount.

It behooves the Chairman and the board to act quickly and decisively and then use the time between now and the summer to mount a dilligent search for a successor worthy of our club's great traditions and ambitions.

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Reader Comments (378)

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Kevin Armstrong
1 Posted 21/04/2016 at 03:51:01
Well said, pretty much everything I and many, many others are no doubt thinking. Nothing needs to be added to an excellent and forthright assessment.

The Walter Smith comparison is particularly apt, I remember my own feelings after the 3 nil rout at Middlesbrough in the Cup QF, that was to hasten his downfall. I hope the same for Senor Martinez.
William Cartwright
2 Posted 21/04/2016 at 03:54:09
The contrasting elegance of unemotional prose juxtaposed with the analogy of the 'crowning turd in the water pipe' if read by the right people, might just have the desired effect. Excellent article and I can imagine how difficult that must have been to commit to publish.

If BK reads this and stays silent then the the pen is no longer mightier than the sword and we should all stay away.

Mick Davies
3 Posted 21/04/2016 at 04:16:00
I remember Bingham was relieved of his duties on the eve of a semi-final, and the same scenario should be played out now, with this hopeless creature, who just stood alone on the touch line (or was it one of the Crosby statues?) with his arms folded staring into next year.

If we had 2 or 3 less points, Sunderland and Newcastle would be salivating at the chance of overtaking us, and in that situation, our relegation happy leader would collapse (again). So I say, thank God Lukaku scored a few early on before he and his teammates gave it up, and thanks to fan power for forcing a change of keeper too, or we'd be looking forward to Burton and possibly MK Dons away, and a reunion with Robertos old Pie-Munchers
Jay Harris
4 Posted 21/04/2016 at 04:16:28
On a night of abject emotional distress, you have put so eloquently what many Evertonians have felt for some time and some have come to realise, Lyndon.

This man is not and never has been up to managing a club the size of Everton.

James Byrne
5 Posted 21/04/2016 at 04:22:14
Good article Lyndon, but I've lost count after previous games that I've said it's "time to go" for this manager. But it really is now TIME TO GO!

I think it is only recently that the dressing room has blown up in his face and these results are showing the real cracks in his reign.

I want to highlight one part of your report and it's the lack of fitness of these players; I've never seen a squad of players in such bad shape. We struggle after 60 minutes. The recent home game to Arsenal was one of the worst starts to a home game I'd ever seen; we were totally goosed both physically and mentally after 5 minutes against a side who'd just played against Barcelona and had traveled in the week.

Time to go? Definitely, but it's long overdue for me. This man is an absolute disgrace of a manager in every department and should be booted out of this great club ASAP!

Ben Dyke
6 Posted 21/04/2016 at 04:49:09
Brilliantly written article, Lyndon. How you can put together such a calm, intelligent piece after such embarrassing humiliation last night is a testament to your journalistic skills!

I'm spitting feathers at the fact this clown is our coach. Not many wanted him, especially as he came after relegating club. He's finally put his stamp on our team, it's the Martinez philosophy – be embarrassingly bad and never admit it. It's obvious when you look at Baines, that the players lost faith in Martinez a while ago. I'm pretty sure we'll hear some stories when this fraud has gone. Let's hope it's very very soon.
Bill Kenwright you've failed this club AGAIN! What a Chairman! Martinez out! Kenwright out!

Get both banners ready for Saturday lads and display them proudly! This club belongs to us not frigging them. Everton is literally nothing without us. Let's protect OUR legacy by protesting loudly at Wembley. The press who are all London ophiles will finally listen to us.

Sorry for a long post lads. I've had it. Completely humiliated by the clowns in charge at MY club.
Ernie Baywood
7 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:04:48
Completely agree, Lyndon, and mirrors a lot of posts (mine included) on the other thread.

I'd make the change right now, and be getting Joe Royle to spend two days convincing this team that they can win, and impressing upon them the importance of the game to this grand old club.

It might not work, but we couldn't be any worse off.

George Stuart
8 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:06:22
I was going to post a lighthearted post designed to lift the spirits about how it was all in a plan to ambush Man U. But I haven't the heart.

For the want of a less posh word he is disingenuous. We get whooped, we must do better. We throw away a lead, the defence played fairly well today. And so on.

It's like Benitez and the RS frog manager whose name escapes me. The sad RS lapped up any rubbish they served up.

Tell it how it is man. We're not stupid and resent being thought of as such.

And another thing, and another thing, most of us see that a damn simple solution is to hire a first class defensive coach and a first class defensive tactician. Grrr.

For example when we were doomed, Joe Royle, a striker, came in and threw five across the back. Needs must and he wasn't even a bit embarrassed. The rest is a small piece of history.

So, new manager. I know its a long shot but that feller at Chelsea a few years ago. What was his name, Rangeri or something. Probs wouldn't do much though.

Being an Aussie I have a soft spot for Hiddink but I think his mojo might be gone.

Andy Codling
9 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:10:27
Unsworth has done reasonable job at U21 Level and should be placed as short term manager until the end of the season when we should hunt a top class manager. As stated, no fight or passion is the end of the road. Liverpool were hungry and organised and how it was only 4-0 is our luck.

A new manager such as Unsy (temp) with new ideas and a fresh approach is what is needed as I can't see us winning at the weekend. Agreed, Lyndon, I can't see the board acting as we are spineless from top to bottom.

Martinez, nice bloke or not, looks way out of his depth and has stated himself he will NOT change his approach.

If Niasse is not going to get any time this season by Bobby's own admission then why is he on the bench, holding players back like Dowell or McAleny who would have some desire?
Mike Price
10 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:13:06
Great article, Lyndon.

It's been coming for a long time but this death spiral is terrifying. The speed at which things are unravelling over the last few months makes us very lucky we've just about secured safety.

The Howard situation was pure farce and everything he's done since is abject failure. Tactics, selections, substitutions, man management, press conferences, fitness levels....everything is a total embarrassment to our football club.

If he isn't gone by Saturday then quite simply the crowd have to make his position completely untenable at the next home game.

Derek Thomas
12 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:17:33
With 2 different fan bases, TW and Grand Old Team, going neck and neck in the high 80s for "gone before the semi", it's pretty much unanimous then.

Mr 49.9%, Come on Down...and sack him will ya?!

Jamie Crowley
14 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:21:25
We should be waking to headlines of "Martinez Sacked".

No one, involved in any sport on earth, could witness something like we just had the extreme displeasure of watching – against the arch-enemy – and not come to the conclusion that a change MUST be made.

Even if you like Martinez – and quite frankly I still see positives – you CAN NOT come to any other conclusion that a change MUST be made!

That was brutally embarrassing.

The rot is so deep. He absolutely MUST go.

Stephen Davies
16 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:35:40
Now is the time to sweep clean. We have now got to find a management team who will take this club by the scruff of the neck.

I don't know who that manager is but it can't be someone like Moyes or Howe (even though I have a lot of respect for both).

We need a winner, someone who detests losing who won't stand for mediocrity. Who makes it absolutely clear that NO player is bigger than the club. The performances of most of those players over the last few months has been downright disgraceful.

The problem is who would come?

Arsenal were in a similar situation in the 90's with Rioch. Their board at the time were open minded and visionary... They took a chance on a thoughtful ambitious man who no one had heard of. Wenger completely altered Arsenal from boring boring Arse... to a club that attracted genius players like Bergkamp and Henry.

The problem is why would someone who is capable of doing similar things for us come here.

The board and Moshiri should now make it their objective to find those candidates... and start now.
It will need to be someone special... but they are out there if enough research is done. Klopp is the evidence of that, they've got it right.

Who had really heard of Pochettino or Wenger before they had arrived over here. But it has to be done right and soon but it can be done, if there's the will... We can't fuck about anymore...

Let's do it properly this time.

Nathan Cross
17 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:37:13
Bobby needs to be put out of his misery. Watching him stand there motionless on the touchline reminds me of that scene from Jurassic Park when they were all watching that goat chained to a post in the T-Rex enclosure...
Lee Brownlie
18 Posted 21/04/2016 at 05:48:47
What to say? Not even a very bad joke at the moment, are we, thanks to our manager? How the f* was he 'promising' to make us proud, anyway? Even if it had been US turned THEM over and then similar on Saturday, RM would hardly have been included in that new-found 'pride', would he? Empty words pre and post match (capitulation!!) as usual. Bye bye, yer muppet!!!

This said, and yes I really do want Martinez gone, what's this nonsense some are airing about wanting to see Moyes brought back? Fuck me, the guy's clearly shot as a top manager!! Fundamentally, what has he done since he left us to merit even the slightest consideration of a return? He couldn't even beat US under RM, with a Man Utd team, that's how much of a saviour he could be!!! And, anyway, haven't we a little too clearly gone back far enough since Martinez' first season to contemplate compounding this rear-view wishful but absurdly dumb vision by bringing in the previous 'mid-table' at best manager???

We need someone new and fresh.. a totally new Everton start for us ALL. Martinez has to go, and ASAP, but old man Moyes ain't it!!!! Martinez out, Big Dunc in to fire the lads up for Wembley, new man in place as soon as. COYB!!!!!!!

Ron Marr
19 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:17:10
BK needs to get on his rocking horse and ride off into the sunset, singing a song. I fear we're stuck with RM until the immovable object is moved.

Martial vs Oviedo, could get real ugly

Darren Hind
20 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:18:49
I was disappointed in your pessimistic preview of this game, Lyndon, but you were on the money. I know that will be of no consolation whatsoever, but fair play to you for not burying your head in the sand.

I don't know how we pick ourselves up for Saturday, but pick ourselves up we must.

Eugene Kearney
21 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:23:26
Totally, totally, totally disgusted and pissed off............
Paddy Howlin
23 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:35:51
Agree 100% with this article. The only thing to add to a fantastic piece that lays out the case for sacking Martinez immediately is that another clear tell tale sign of any manager losing the players is the amount of 'injuries' that pile up. Players who simply just don't fancy fighting any more duck out when the going gets tough.

Stones last night was systematic proof of this. Stomach pains? Jesus, my 10 year old doesn't even use that one to get out of going to school. Imagine Dave Watson in a derby using that excuse? No, it's clear that the players have downed tools either by being 'injured' or making themselves unavailable for selection via suspension. No player wants to be associated with this type of failure.

For me this is the time for Mr Moshiri to inervine, step up and prove he genuinely is a man with means and wants to take the club forward. He needs to take control of the situation and sack Martinez NOW, irrespective of the blind and equally deluded Bill's view of Martinez. If he doesn't act, I fear we may be seeing his true colors and he could be yet another passenger like Robert Earl who Kenwright has brought to the table for his own self preservation.

We have for me a massive opportunity on Saturday, however it won't be realized if Roberto Martinez and his League 1 standard coaching team are allowed to stay in control. Give the role to Joe Royle and Kevin Sheedy until the end of the season and we may have a chance of realizing some of the potential this demoralized squad used to show.
Paul Andrews
24 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:41:54

Your comments are as usual spot on. I have supported Martinez until around 6 weeks ago.

A new caretaker manager would hopefully give the team a bounce effect.It would also take away the excuse of "they don't want to play for this manager"

As you say, Enough is enough.

Christopher Dover
25 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:43:26
RM is praised for his attacking flair, but even this side of play is now non existent.

We cannot defend and now we cannot attack so why bother, it will only get worse, Saturday can anyone see this side (will not call them team) beating Man Utd.

They will play the same way, stay back and try and defend and brake away, but I can see his excuses coming that he has a injury depleted squad.

Why have an unfit (more so than most) Pienaar and Niasse on the bench? He has said the forward will not be ready till next season so why use a possible subs place, is his eyesight bad so he has to be close to the action?

To finish, excellent article that puts in writing things I think and have tried to say over the last few months, I can only hope he or the board listen to the fans and get shut now.

Mark Andersson
26 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:45:41
Hats off to you, Lyndon – a sad but brilliant read.

We will not win on Saturday, no matter who pics the team. I said weeks ago that we are unfit both physically and mentally.

This mess is going to take a full season to clean up. I firmly put the blame on Kenwright, he chose the idiot and had backed him.

Keep up the great work TW, you make my dull life interesting.

Michael Evans
27 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:49:19
Very well written article

Remember watching Everton in a pre-season friendly in Shropshire in 80's.

Sheedy went in too hard on a tackle and Reid had to tell him to tone it down.

My point ? That team combined skill with determination, grit, hard as nails etc mentality

RM has created 'Everton Lite'

Without substance.

Without depth

Without character

Ian Brandes
28 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:57:17
Martinez has taken a wrecking ball to this club, the fans, the players and everyone who holds Everton in their affections.

As fans, we will have to show patience when a new man comes in, it will take a virtual miracle to transform this bunch of losers into something that resembles a never-say-die team to be proud of.

With luck and justice, What A manager should go today.

And the Chairman should share the taxi.

Tony Hill
29 Posted 21/04/2016 at 06:57:52
Thank you, Lyndon. Now, we must hear the same from ex-players and all those with any public voice who love this club.
Tom Plant
30 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:10:13
Spot on. He has to go today to give the players and supporters s much needed shot in the arm. Stay and we can kiss goodbye to the FA cup and the misery is complete. Go and we can beat Utd, go on to win the FA cup and look forward to next season under the guidance of a new manager and a financial injection.

Simeone, De Boer, Koeman, Pellegrini, maybe Eddie Howe, or could we temp Tuchel to come to merdeyside to lock horns with Klopp? Change needed now before we all go insane. Unsworth can take us through till the end of the season and get 3-4 of our highly talented young lads in the team. I would also be happy to not see that lazy, embarrassment of a centre forward appear in an Everton shirt again. Discrace.
Lyndon Lloyd
31 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:13:14
The irony, Darren (20)? Even though I wrote the most pessimistic preview I've ever done, I still thought we'd grab an unlikely draw! I'd mentioned it in a reply to your comment on my preview, one I never actually finished or submitted.

But the thrust of the preview really was a true expression of just how despondent I've become in recent weeks. I "crossed the Rubicon" regarding Martinez weeks ago but I resolved not to openly call for his head until after the semi-final.

Last night was just too bad, though. It was shocking. People throw around "that was the worst Everton performance I've ever seen" but I'm pretty sure that was the poorest I've ever seen us play in 30 years of watching the Blues, perhaps only matched by a home game against Coventry in the late 90s that we lost 2-0 and were so awful I didn't think it could be topped.

Anthony Millington
32 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:16:46
Remember Martinez has lost at Anfield 4-0 before with Everton. This happening twice should not be tolerated and is clear proof that this is NOT the best Everton side in years. It is one of the worst...

There are flaws with nearly every player in it. In recent years the best team was under Moyes when we had Jags and Lescott in their prime with Arteta, Cahill and Pienaar (who has never been replaced).

Si Mar
33 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:18:50
Brilliant article.

When a a manager 'loses' the dressing room you have to act quickly, It's sometimes not fair but look at the mess at Chelsea earlier this season.

For me the players come out of this with no credit whatsoever, where was the pride in the jersey, if they aren't playing for the manager what about the fans in a game that means so much to us?

Could there have been a worse place to put up on such a display?!! Walter Smith should have been sacked a year earlier after the Tranmere game which was, until, last night my worst day as a blue.

How has it all come to this?!?!?!

Stephen Brown
35 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:30:25
The bit about character is so right! Would Labone, Ratcliffe, Watson or even Weir, Gough or Unsworth go off with a bad belly during a Merseyside Derby?

Can't believe it?!

Nick Entwistle
36 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:32:49
Amazingly I didn't watch last night. Amazing, or predictable. Not sure. It just wasn't an option. There can be no more of Roberto come the end of the season. There must be no cup final redemption. There just needs to be something else.
Scott Hall
37 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:33:07
Genuinely thought I might wake up this morning to news of his sacking.

Seriously Bill? You're the incredible one! You have no fucking credibility.

Tommy Coleman
38 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:33:10
That was the worst I've ever seen us play. In its singularity, a sackable offense.

With the mood building up to the game, I think the fans knew something bad was coming.

I'm going on Saturday and I will force myself to get rid of the dread.

Alex Bennett
39 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:33:23
It's a sad depressing day when even your worst fears of a result and performance are superseded by something more damming.

I hope this is the end for Martinez and not just the beginning of it. Please let the club already have their replacement for him lined up. My worry is though much like Martinez they too don't have a plan b and we could be half way through the summer before a new manager and coaching team are in place, if we are lucky!

Has a trip to Wembley ever felt so unrewarding? If we were a wounded animal we'd have been put out of our misery by now. The situation is a cruel game for us all and we deserve so much more.

Antony Matthews
40 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:34:05
Kewright presumably thinks we can still turn the corner. What he must realise is we are on a roundabout and the same performances are occurring week in week out. This juggernaut must be stopped otherwise it will turn nasty.

Unsy hopefully will grab the wheel with both hands, introduce a few kids at weekend who he can trust to do a job and know how to play the Everton way and hopefully this car crash of a season can be averted. Sit on your hands, Bill, and the fans will never forgive you.

David Milner
41 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:34:37
A good read Lyndon & absolutely correct.

Whether or not we have a semi final in 2 days time, Martinez has to go NOW.

That was the worst performance I have seen by an Everton side at Anfield, & I am a pensioner.

To go to Anfield without a single defender on the bench is a disgrace. Past performances there indicate that we may have a man sent off. He must of known before the start that Stones was unwell.

Moshiri act NOW, Bill wont.

Chris Leyland
42 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:40:52
And yet 11% of voters in the latest ToffeeWeb poll want him to still be in charge for the semi...
Kieran Fitzgerald
43 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:41:00
We are Villa without the relegation at present. This is why people, myself included, are calling for Moyes' return. His approach is the perfect fit for us right now, regardless of how nauseating it may be.

What you want and what you need are two very separate things.

I would rather be phoning Gus Hiddink but I doubt he or another manager of his standing would touch us with a barge pole at present. We are way below where Liverpool were when they brought Klopp in. Does anyone really think he would have taken the Liverpool job if they were as bad then as we are now?

Iain Latchford
44 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:43:28
He needs to be sacked today. If (by some miracle) we win the semi final that means the situation drags on even longer, and diminishes our chances of winning the final.

I'd put Joe Royle in charge for the final... in fact I'd rather have fucking Jim Royle!!

Paul Olsen
45 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:51:44
I'd feel sorry for Martinez, but he has had his chance to do the right thing and step Down himself for months now. He has not done that, to this club's downfall.

He is not going to resign after the most humiliating result in a derby for as long as I can remember either. Conclusion; I have no more respect for the joker.
My last bit of respect for those running the Club will also be gone if this guy is still there when we arrive at Wembley.

I expect defeat again, but I am willing to Accept that if action is taken and we see a team that actually tries for a full 90 minutes. I don't expect to see that as of now.

Funes Mori should be in the press first thing this morning, to say he is sorry for being an absolute twat last night and for humiliating us even more with his badge kissing antics. As disgraceful as anything I have seen.

If Rom utters another Word about leaving before the last ball is kicked this season, I don't care how many goals he has scored this season. Show some respect you Dick!

John Stones.... If those stomach cramps were a known issue, you should never have entered the Pitch last night and it's on yourself and Martinez. It looked like you withdrew after making a bad mistake, leaving your teammates to contend with a proper thrashing on their own. Any way you look at it, it was a farce.

Bryan Oviedo. I believe you did Your best last night, but you should never have been put in that position. On Martinez, yet again.

Gareth Barry. Showed real passion in the first half, Our only shining beacon in that first half, perhaps apart from Robles. Are you truly injured or did shit hit the fan in the dressing room at half-time? I Guess we'll never know.

The look on the faces of those blues who turned up at Anfield should say it all. They deserve a whole-hearted display on Saturday, win or lose. 90 minutes of giving it everything. They deserve just that for every remaining game this season. Anyone doing anything less is Beyond redemption. Do we still have that in us? I'm just not sure.

I for one will not be watching Saturday if he still is in charge. I'm sorry, but I just can't... I made myself sit through 97 minutes yesterday, and to be frank I can't bring myself to that again.

It must end now

Denis Richardson
46 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:52:29
Excellent article, Lyndon, and I agree with every word. The funny thing about last night is that it took an utter humiliation to finally get him to give an honest post match interview, after almost three years!

I was feeling sorry for Martinez at the end of the game as he's so obviously out of his depth and BK should have put him out of his misery a long time ago.

It's was past the point of no return for many blues months ago but last night surely also turned the last RM backer – surely there can't be any left.

There really is no point in keeping him on for the semi, serves no purpose as the players will be playing for themselves anyway.

We need to start all over again but there is hope. We have about 5 old players coming to the end of their contracts or leaving in Howard's case and I'll be very surprised if Lukaku and Stones don't force moves. So at least 7 senior squad members will go and there should be at good 100m in transfer money and a massive amount in the wage bill available for a new manager to build his own side. Main thing is to bring in a decent guy and bring him in early.

There is no way RM will be in charge next season, I'll be surprised if he manages another game at GP after that – simply no way back.

David Blakeley
47 Posted 21/04/2016 at 07:54:44
Excellent article, Lyndon. This could be the turning point. Sorry I'm just trying to cling on to some positivity. Dreadful night, dreadful manager, dreadful chairman. Like many have said more eloquently than I, this nightmare must end soon.

I was hoping to wake up and find Martinez sacked, but no. If this man had anything about him he'd have resigned last night.

He has to go!

Colin Glassar
48 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:01:56
I knew we would lose, I've been saying it for day's now but I also said if we lose I hope it's with a bit of effort and dignity. Last night we showed neither.

EFC is the laughing stock of world football today and that is something that none of us can accept. I don't have words, I honestly don't. It hurts even more today than it did yesterday.

Xavier Spencer
49 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:05:21
Lyndon, that's an excellent piece. Says it all. How can we ensure that this lands on Moshiri's desk this morning?
Thomas Surgenor
50 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:06:14
Unsworth till the end of the season for me.
I don't care if by some miracle Martinez wins the FA cup. It is no longer enough to redeem him in my book.
John Louis Jones
51 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:07:56
Great read, Lyndon,

When you get your Mates that support the dark side sending you messages after the game saying they feel sorry for us, You know it is bad (Because they are normally the biggest WUMS known to man)

He has lost the team, Funes Mori kissing and pointing to the badge as he walked off towards the blues in the ground, said it all – he was angry and wanted the fans to know that he is with them NOT Martinez. Stones just gave up; I truly believe that Martinez has lost the respect of the players.

Barkley's face when he was subbed said it he looked at the fans to say HELP ME! he was truly gutted.

Maybe someone could answer this question for me as I am at a loss: We had no right back so we play Oviedo okay -– but then play Lennon and Mirallas out of position? Surely Lennon's work rate and tracking back would have given Oviedo more cover?

Martinez Out.

Denis Richardson
52 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:08:46
Forgot to add Moyes is NOT the answer!

If BK brings that twat back I think I'll be done as far as Everton is concerned. Wasted enough of my life so far.

(And I'm not overreacting after last night, simply been very little joy over the last 5-6 years watching the blues with shite like Heitinga and Neville in CM and now the RM 'philosophy'. BK needs to finally just fuck off.)

Paul Conway
53 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:09:25
The most humiliating part was not only did we have to endure the Red fans chanting Olé, Olé, we had to watch their team playing keepy-uppy among themselves!

By getting out-classed, outplayed, humiliated and the damning match statistics by comparison, this has got to be the worst defeat I have witnessed, in 49 years of supporting Everton.

It really speaks volumes when you get trounced 4-0 and your goalie has been your best player! What are they waiting for to change the manager? The easiest thing to do that when it is done they will say 'Why was it not done sooner'!

It's like when you need a new pair of shoes and you keep stalling, as your not arsed, as the ones you have look okay. Until the missus gets in your ear! You go to the shop, try on a new pair and they look great and feel great and decide they are for you!

Then you look at your old shoes on the floor, looking pathetic, you ask yourself 'Did I really wear those?' You are afraid someone will see them and then look at you and say 'Did he really wear those?' You just want to run out and leave them behind. That's the way I feel about RM..... pathetic!
Ernie Baywood
54 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:10:27
It's been a while since there was any way back for Martinez.

If RM was a boxer, there's no way you'd be sending him out for another round. "You've had enough, son, you've had enough".

Ray Jacques
55 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:12:31
I don't think it could get any lower, but then it probably will on Saturday if no action is taken now.

Martinez should be sacked this morning. I don't see one reason why he should not be.

Totally off the wall,someone should get on the phone to Mourinho and ask him what he's doing at the weekend. Get him up here for a few days and see if he can manage this fiasco through the game on Saturday. FFS I'd even ask Moyes to come back for this game, that's how bad it is.

Even the RS fans at work this morning have been easy on me as, in their own words, 'they feel sorry for us'.

Keith Harrison
56 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:13:17
That's true, Colin. We are the laughing stock. And unless Bill and others do something positive today, that will be Bill's legacy at Everton.

Roberto Martinez can no more lift this team than the Goodison tea lady. (apologies to the lady by the way). The ONLY chance we have on Saturday is to get an interim who knows what winning is like, who loves the Blues, and will ring every ounce of passion and pride out of the team. Because that's what we will need with the patched up team likely to go out there.

Personally, I would ask Jamie Carragher, with Reidy, and take the other - proper - coaches, Sheeds and Unsy.
Ian Jones
57 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:14:41
Kieran. I disagree with your comments about Klopp but understand the frustration you voice.

Yes Klopp would have taken the Liverpool job if they were as bad when he took over Liverpool as we have been. It's a top job. Anyone ambitious enough would be keen on any vacant jobs at clubs like that. Everton would be an attractive proposition to most managers. Big club. Big history. Traditions etc. Looks like a reasonably stable board. He may have even considered us. After all he rocked up at Dortmund

Bit of money available. Ok recently not playing so well but still a great club to be part of.

Whether some of those managers would be suitable to us is another matter. It may be that a Guus Hiddink type would be beneficial to us. Someone who is experienced to deal with players.

I agree with what you want and what you need comment. Totally. Which is why it wouldn't bother me if we turned to Benitez either. He knows the game. He knows the city. Don't care that he's been at Liverpool and what he said about is. He did alright for them, as he has at most clubs. Knows how to set up a winning team if given the raw materials to work with.

We still have a good squad of players and some good youngsters. But a poor match day team. If we sell some on for decent money, in the words of Gerrard we go again!

Looking at Villa. I think most current available managers including Moyes would consider their vacant post if it were not for the owner.

John Jennings
58 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:18:24
Can we get that open letter to Mr Moshiri penned as soon as possible ? We need to bypass BK completely and talk directly to the new order. Bill Kenwright is yesterday's man as far as Everton Football Club is concerned. And we all know he will do nothing about removing Martinez (which should happen now, not after being humiliated by Man Utd).

The comment 'what a manager' perfectly sums up where his head is. Moshiri is a hardened business man and deals in facts. We have enough mind-bogglingly bad statistics about this dreadful season to back up the call for the manager to go now. We are becoming the laughing stock of English football and last night was, as Lyndon so eloquently states, the worst performance by every measure from an Everton team in living memory. No more talk, direct action now.
Ian Burns
59 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:19:16
Another article right on the money, Lyndon, I don't know how you managed to put that together after last night's game – well done.

I find it inconceivable that RM doesn't realise himself it is time to go and it is even more inconceivable the club hierarchy didn't act last night. Surely they can see what the majority of us can see in that to remove him now before the semi-final will actually be the shot in the arm the players are desperately looking for (not to mention the fans!).

No blue should ever have to go through that humiliation ever again – this morning I feel as if I have been run over by the metaphoric truck goodness knows how those long-suffering blues who went to the match feel.

Andy Pearson
60 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:20:20
I am a season ticket hold that travels 224 miles round trip to see the game. But won't be soon if that clown is still in charge.

How can he possibly lead any Everon team out on Saturday will over 90% of us wanting his blood.

He behaves like this "should we tell them the boats out of fuel, NO JUST SMILE AND WAVE"

Please please someone have the balls to sack him.
Colin Glassar
61 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:21:51
Martinez can't do any thing else with this team. That was virtually an open rebellion last night as John #51 has pointed out.

The players don't want to play for him anymore and that was evident for all to see from Bainsey (rolling eyes), Funes Mori (getting sent off) Barry (refusing to come out) Stonesy (shitting himself, literally) basically, all of them except Robles and Lennon.

Put him out of his misery, and ours, and get Unsy and Sheedy in till the end of the season. Otherwise, Saturday could be even worse.

Colin Hughes
62 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:21:59
Did anybody REALLY expect us to be celebrating a derby match victory last night given that we probably have the worst recent derby match record in European football ?

Not only have we not won in 18 successive trips across the park you have to go back to 1987-88 to find the last time we won the final league derby of a campaign and held the bragging rights over the summer. Yes that Wayne Clarke record ending goal at Goodison in a 1-0 win was the said match.

Well here's looking forward to our 36 league games next season.
Steavey Buckley
63 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:23:11
I was concerned when Everton's rearranged match with Liverpool was rescheduled for last night. It was bad timing, especially as Liverpool are on a roll and Everton at present are rolling downhill backwards. Yet, with a big game on Saturday, most Everton fans were calling for a full strength team. Quite bizzare.

So instead of making use of some promising under 21s, the Everton first team turned up last night and gave an inept performance. But that is what I expected with the big game coming up, with players eyeing that match and not the other one. And with injury to Barry and Mori suspended, clamouring for that full strength team does appear very foolish. As for Martinez, football matters look very bad for him and I expect a sacking anytime soon.
Paul Smith
64 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:25:06
I haven't felt this angry for years and this idiot has got to fall on his sword now because this spineless board still won't do anything. The players also need to take a long look in the mirror because no matter whose the manager our fans deserve better than what they are being served up right now.

I turned off from watching at half time last night and wished for every fan in our end to walk out and highlight how unhappy we are to the board, players and media. As ive said before this buffoon can only be prepared to the Mike Walker era but what a manager he is Bill. All fans who went last night should have their money refunded for being put through that embarrassing shambles.

Right now I can't even think about Saturday and I'm so not looking forward to going to Wembley, this is what it's become under this idiot. My worry is there's no leaders in this dressing room who can rally the troops and just say, "To hell with Martinez; let's do it for the fans." This looks like another watershed week in our club.
Brent Stephens
65 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:28:44
Lyndon, as ever an excellent article. Anybody who has skipped it to go straight into a post should read it.

And so true and revealing are your observations about no RB back-up, no Pienaar replacement, no Lukaku back-up, the stupidity of the Naismith transfer. As you say, "Martinez's dereliction of duty", and "the crowning turd in the water pipe".

Dean Peamum
66 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:30:30
Great article, Lyndon – shame that it's come to this. I posted here last season in February that he should have been sacked then. I never ever thought I would say this but I think our Redneck cousins have done us three massive favours.

Firstly, they should have won 7 or 8 nil (Barca won 8-0 away last night) but for some great saves by Robles.

Secondly, they (along with Leicester and Spurs) have shown what a good manager can achieve even with average players. No more of this 'golden squad' shit – piss poor most of them.

Thirdly, and most importantly, they have hastened the departure of the fraud. Can't even be arsed to try to make a joke here, it couldn't be as funny as the one we have as manager.

Steve Hogan
67 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:32:28
He has to go TODAY, simple as that. If he had any decency, he would fall on his sword, he himself must know it's over. Him being still in charge at Wembley this weekend will only further aggravate matters, surely even the pathetically weak and misguided Kenwright can see that?

Absolutely nothing to be gained by letting him choose or manage whatever team we put out on Saturday now.


Scott Hamilton
68 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:34:03
Shit, it wasn't a dream!

No dilly-dallying. Martinez must go today.

Mike Green
69 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:34:30
Excellent piece, Lyndon.

Roberto's position is untenable now regardless of what happens in the Cup. To be honest after last night the thought of us even walking out on Saturday makes me feel a bit ill. What a mess.

Phil Walling
70 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:34:51
'They shoot horses, don't they ?' Well this one trailed off in the derby and should be put out of its misery without suffering the embarrassment of a further public appearance.

All we can hope is that when Mr 49.9% and Mr 8.9% turned their backs on a then 3-0 scoreline and left Anfield 20 minutes from the end, it was to ring Mr 12.16 % to tell him he and his 'WHAT A MANAGER' were both done for.

Nothing less will do.

Matt Traynor
71 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:40:45
Steavey #63, the squad is plenty big enough to have put out a strong team for both. There are still rules in the game about putting out deliberately under-strength sides, and spare a thought for the poor bastards who shelled out £52 a ticket to be humiliated anyway.

Tony #29, you may yet get your wish. Just casual listening today has had Michael Ball and Barry Horne saying his time is up, and there's no way back, FA cup win or not. And that's just on one station.

Someone pointed out yesterday that in each of his 3 seasons with us, his hairline has noticeably receded each year. So if Billy Bullshit is too spineless to sack him for football reasons, relieve him of his duties for the sake of his barnet. Where's the humanity Bill?

Ernie Baywood
72 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:41:49
It's about 8:30 there isn't it? What time do managers usually get sacked?

About 10? Give him a chance to say goodbye to the players and clear the family photos off the desk.

Andrew Clare
73 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:45:12
I just want Moshiri to take full control asap. I want Kenwright and Martinez removed now. I want a tough astute no nonsense manager who only wants the best. I want Lukaku and Stones moved on and the money spent on players with character and fight in them.
This morning I want to hear that Martinez has been sacked. He should have gone a year ago and he would have done if our Chairman had any idea of how to run a football club. There's none so blind as those that cannot see.
Simon Jones
74 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:46:24
We've had a few tonkings against the dark side over the years and this is yet another. As much as I'd love to see another, higher profile manager come in on the back of this poor result, we just don't have that sort of track record and I expect Martinez in place until the end of the season.

Martinez has been found out. I don't think his style of football suits the Premier League (I wouldn't be surprised if he did ok on the continent). We never shut up shop when ahead in a game, Moyes's solid defence and ability to eke out a 1-0 win is history now. This defeat hurts the fans far more because of the abject style of it and who we were playing, but what fans want and what club administrations want often seem to be some distance apart.

David Harrison
75 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:46:41
Martinez well and truly defined
Martin Nicholls
76 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:50:23
Lyndon – 31. Remember it well for all the wrong reasons, although I think it was 1994 (15th October to be precise). It too resulted in dwindling support for manager.

I went to Earls Court the following day to see Pink Floyd (Division Bell tour). To this day, that weekend sticks in my mind as comprising two live events one of which provided great entertainment and value for money whilst the other represented no entertainment and daylight robbery. No prizes for guessing which is which.

Hoping for vfm and some entertainment on Saturday but alas the Floyd won't be performing.

Brian Griffin
77 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:56:32
Permanently Lost: One Plot

When: Opinion divided on this, but my view possibly away at Bournemouth, but definitely home vs West Ham

Chances of Finding it: On the evidence of recent months, and confirmed by last night, absolutely none.

Urgently required: Taxi for Roberto.

Dave Lawley
78 Posted 21/04/2016 at 08:58:23
The RS sacked Brenda the same night after the indignity (in their eyes) of a draw with us at Goodison.

We get raped and left for dead in the worst possible circumstances by the worst possible club and this clown is still allowed into Finch Farm in the morning. What the fuck!!!

Martin Nicholls
79 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:00:41
He should go before Saturday but I doubt he will. Should the inevitable happen however I am with Denis (46) - he won't be seen again at Goodison Park.
Joe McMahon
80 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:01:32
Andrew Clare – Spot on. That's what we need (just don't think we will get it). Bill Kenwright is only interested in himself keeping control. He has been bleeding us dry for years.
Trevor Peers
81 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:01:39
Kenwright simply can't be trusted to either sack Martinez or pick a new manager, he hasn't got a clue. He's bessoted with Roberto for some strange reason.

I'd be surprised if he's even thought about a successor. He definitely won't sack him before the semi final.

Moshiri has to step in and take control of the situation and get rid of Kenwright or we're going the same way as Villa next season.

Jason Pullen
82 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:03:44
It's astounding to think he could still be in charge on Saturday. This is professional sport, no room for sentiment. He must be removed.

I don't think I've ever seen a sporting team anywhere come back from these sorts of problems without a change of manager/coach. It simply has to happen.

A big test of our new shareholders influence. Will speak volumes if he isn't sacked.

Mark Wilson
83 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:04:40
Nothing about leadership is easy, and the world of PL football is one of the toughest arena's to make the grade as a strong, successful, leader. Everton FC is currently one of the worst led clubs ever to play at the top level and whilst last nights utter disgrace is the focus, wider consideration suggests the club is riddled with either poor ineffective "leaders" or those who seem to have withdrawn from the role for whatever reason.

Martinez is the poorest leader I've ever seen at a football club. He is bizarre in his analysis, embarrassing in his communication and simply is no longer taken seriously by fans, pundits, other clubs and worst of all, his squad. He of course should be sacked NOW and Lyndon, your piece is a superb, cold, accurate assessment.

But the demise of leadership at the club extends far beyond the manager. Bill Kenwright, who I've often been slaughtered for defending on "football" grounds, has stayed too long at the club I know he loves with all his heart. He has been so ill, faced what many suggest is a life threatening situation, and whether that's true or not, he badly needed to withdraw. He didn't. He was an absentee landlord for a long time. Investment has arrived and theirs credit for that, but the leadership vacuum has destroyed the clubs prospects and rebuilding in a hugely competitive environment will be harder than ever.

The CEO is far better than many understand but he seems to have also withdrawn. I know he is a hate figure for many groups but the arguments of that aside, he needed to be up front and leading... shouting... regularly... reassuring... bullish... Yet he's relatively quiet. Why ?

Mr Moshiri has made a very quiet entry. I understand that in part, and yes the new ownership structure at present doesn't yet allow him the leadership role he will have to deliver. But even in the last few weeks there is more he could have done, but hasn't.

The players need to be ashamed of their collective failures to take responsibility on the pitch. Personal errors aside, there is simply no leader on the park. Players do not step up. When they do, like Baines, the reaction from inside the club is to hound not support. But the players are demonstrating one of the worst signs of leadership... apathy. They just do not appear to be able to motivate themselves regardless of the managers failings. They are highly paid but that alone doesn't get you a leader.

I cannot see us winning another league game and actually if one of the North East clan goes on a run we are not yet safe from relegation. Without a leader anywhere in the club that scenario, whilst unlikely, remains a harrowing possibility.

This is why sacking Martinez now makes sense because we literally can do worse by keeping him. I know Man Utd would fancy themselves against a team of younger players but I genuinely feel they would at least restore pride in the blue shirt and show fans some respect. Drastic action yes, but to bring in five or six U21 players for Saturday, managed by Unsy with Joe Royle supporting, or maybe vice versa is more obvious, that strategy has much merit.

Leadership, it's all about leadership and sadly there is just silence and misery.

Eric Myles
84 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:04:54
Trevor (#81) you just know Kenwright will take the soft option and ask Moyes to come back
Noleen Daya
85 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:05:34
Well now, I knew we wouldn't win but I did not expect our team to be disgraced. What Funes Mori did, tackle and badge flapping, was absolutely disgusting. If there is a modicum of pride and discipline left in our club he should have a week or two's wages docked. This is not how our beloved club behaves.

As for Martinez, all has been said, but for once I'd like to hear him use "I must" instead of "we must". The club as a whole is being painted with the same brush as he and it is NOT ON! Of course, to make matters worse I'm married to one from the dark side (yes, it's true – love knows no limits!)

Steve Foster
86 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:05:42
I think I maybe in minority, well, I know I am. But I stayed faithful and believed we had someone here whom could deliver. I supported RM when others, lots of others, called for his sacking.

But no more, not for the last month or so.

I've sat here reading on a daily basis thinking 'you're all wrong', for this I apologise.

The man is lost, totally. There is nothing there, nothing.

Reading these well put comments and initial piece there is only one glimmer of light we have for Saturday, and that is Sheedy, Unsworth, Royle or even Dunc leading the team out at Wembley.

BBC Sport should be leading with BREAKING NEWS about his sacking. This, my friends, is the last straw. He HAS to go NOW!

Even with Mike Walker's spell, you had that feeling that it would turn and a result would turn up, but I have never in all my 40+ years of supporting this great club felt so flat, dejected, and in desperate need for the manager to go.

As much as I wish last night was just a bad dream, I wish even more for his role to be removed from the club.

Brent Stephens
87 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:06:28
My lad has my Wembley ticket as he's never been before. I anticipate a knock from social services enquiring about possible child cruelty.

We're not going to get relegated but it says something when we have only four games left and yet are still not mathematically safe. Still not mathematically safe, FFS! Challengers for 4th place?!

Peter Bell
88 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:09:49

Remember after Kenwright sacked Smith, he asked him to recommend his successor, and Smith gave him Moyes. The man is a total fraud who knows nothing about football.

Moshiri, get rid of BPB as well. I can imagine Kenwright, having just sacked Martinez asking, " Who do you recommend, Roberto?"

And he replies: "Well Bill, I know this guy called Alcaraz..."

Joe Clitherow
89 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:11:12
Sadly I agree with - almost - every word. Where I disagree is that I don't think this man is a stand up gentleman at all, I think he is a self serving, snivelling little coward. Paolo Di Canio at least had the guts to be a man and face up to the Sunderland supporters. Last night that coward couldn't get down the tunnel quick enough without any acknowledgement or any kind of respectful apology in subsequent press conferences to fans who stayed to the bitter end. That is despicable and says a great deal about his character in my opinion. It doesn't even cross his mind to think about the effect HE has had on a great many others.

I posted earlier in the week that if Oviedo played RB in the game we would get raped. But I think it is unfair to single him out, he at least has a bit of heart. He is a symbol for me of EFC and expectations under Martinez: an average player, a poor defender, but wildly over-hyped beyond belief who we have a soft spot for because he scored the winner against Man U and suffered a horrendous leg break. He is cut some slack because of emotional attachment and maybe that is the same with BK and Martinez. Unfortunately you have to be brutally honest and ruthless in business as Sir John clearly was and hopefully Mr Moshiri is. Cold hard logic, not emotional attachment or loyalty, should be the guiding factors in decisions taken.

He absolutely must go before the semi as cancer must be cut out ASAP. He is an utterly beaten man and a loser in charge transfers a losing mentality to the troops. Martinez and his crew being in charge will actually detract from the team. There is absolutely nothing to lose now and everything to gain. He must be sacked today and Unsworth put in charge for Saturday. I don't think fighting spirit from the manager would be in any doubt then and that surely would transfer in some way to the team on the pitch.

Ernie Baywood
90 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:11:13
Mark Wilson, I've harped on about leadership all season. In particular, about how Roberto is straight from the textbook.

He's been the only voice. The only one prepared to stand for something and be brave. Unfortunately he's just not a leader and doesn't possess the capability or credibility required, and the only thing worse than having no obvious leaders, is having a poor one fill the vacuum.

Andrew Cunningham
91 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:11:29
I can just hear Martinez speaking after Saturdays game. "It was a good performance from the boys but ultimately they were too strong. But we did make two semi finals so maybe this season wasn't so bad.

"Our aim now is to win as many league games as possible for the remainder of the season and that will put us in good stead for next year. This season has been a big learning curve for us and so it will be a perfect stepping stone for us into next season Blah,Blah,Blah."

Please give me and all Blues strength!!

Jim Lloyd
92 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:13:04
Well said Lyndon. Straight from the heart and absolutely accurate assessment.

Well. It is a defining week, there's no doubt about that. But not in the way Roberto Martinez meant it. It isn't so much about whether the week would end in glorious victory or valiant defeat.

What this week is about, is the defining moment of the Manager's career at Everton Football Club. His career is now finished.

Kenwright might keep him on until the Final, might keep him on until the end of the season or might even keep him on until next season. But as from this morning, he has no team manage, as the team have lost any belief in him.

I had a premonition last week about the Reds having one of their momentous nights and had to be surrounded by reds fans after they did.

I guess a lot of us could see what was very likely to happen last night, before the team set foot on the pitch. I was just hoping it wouldn't go into double figures.

Kenwright is the one who should take action, or at the very least advise Mr Moshiri of his possible solution. But he won't.

Not because he believes in Martinez ("What a manager!") but because he will not want to be proved wrong.

Peter Bell
93 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:13:24
By the way, things have got that bad that even Colin G has criticised John Stones...
Anthony Colton
94 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:14:25
Excellent post, sums it all up perfectly, tell me an Evertonian who is looking forward to Saturday? And that is what we have been reduced to.

A change immediately can only restore some hope for Saturday.

Oliver Molloy
95 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:14:57

Kenwright is a true romantic as we know, he will be thinking Martinez got this team to the semi final he deserves the chance to win it!

But make no mistake Martinez will not be manager of Everton come the start if the new season – us fans simply will not allow that to happen.

Jay Woods
96 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:16:44
Great article to which I can only add this.

When Kenwright was previously under heat from the fans, what happened? That's right, a nice, hearty round of applause for the buffoon-in-chief echoing around Goodison. Apparently, it's the "Everton way" and has supplanted on-field success as the new and only source of Evertonian pride. How utterly, ruinously, pathetic.

Rather than allowing ourselves to be conned by such artifice, we should be baying for blood. What the club needs is a revolution from the boardroom right down to the tea ladies. The loser culture, the "Everton way" tripe, the forever-in-a-red-shadow mentality...

In particular, the derby record is a crime against both football and the laws of probability. It's like, bar those few seasons in the mid 1980s under the late Howard Kendall, we have been in a Shankly induced coma. The trauma of LFC's rise to domestic and European heights has never truly been healed; rather, as the years roll by, it has festered into an ever expanding sack of putrefaction and pus. Hence here we are, in 2016, without an away win in the derby since last century. Contrast how Everton, as a club, responded to Liverpool's achievements with how our approximate counterpart in Milan (AC) did to their own upstart offspring's (Inter) stellar success in the mid 1960s. They countered Inter by making sure they matched, and then overtook them, rather than cowering in fear and entrenching themselves in lifelong resignation.

In the past I have been candid in my assessment of my fellow Evertonians and their defeatist approach to derbies, suggesting that such negativity becomes transmitted to the players. I still stand by that position, but I do understand the difficulty in mustering confidence in advance of derbies given our appalling record in them. It's a self-perpetuating negative feedback loop.

But the greater offence we as Evertonians are guilty of is buying into fallacies / club-sanctioned propaganda about displays of displeasure being only something Kopites would stoop to. Now of course, I don't advocate physical abuse or reviling anyone. That would be very scummy behaviour. But isn't it obvious that some kind of organised protest is the only meaningful leverage fans - of any club on earth - possess? Yet we have willingly, out of fear of being seen as "like the other lot across the Park", self-censored our way out of that recourse. What a bunch of idiots we must seem to everyone else.

And so, as a club and fanbase, Everton has become enfeebled on all levels. That means only a revolution as described above can remedy the situation. A start would be for Mr Moshiri to insist on the immediate removal of the manager and a very hefty crackdown on Lukaku for his comments that brought the club into yet more disrepute, a crime - yes, a crime - against every one of us who bleeds blue. But even more so, we need an end to the "Everton way" mindset / psyop. Otherwise, it will be more of the same: seeking solace in the kindly words of outsiders who openly laud us for our ostensible restraint and dignity (while secretly sneering at our weakness). Meanwhile, Klopp will see to it that Liverpool's comfort will be more silverware.

Tony McNulty
97 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:19:37
The manager's continuing retention is the elevation of emotion over reason.
Mark Hughes
98 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:21:21
Garbage – Sack the Manager before the Semi – don't be so stupid. Who do you think got us there? Got Wigan there?
Andy Meighan
99 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:23:50
Brilliantly put, Lyndon, and so heartfelt. But and I might be alone here not having read the other posts. I don't think Kenwright has the bottle to sack him.

To him and his arrogant stubborn nature, it'd be akin to admitting hes made a mistake he will give him to the end of the season and, mark my word, at least until October or November, I don't think the semi-final will have any bearing on it whatsoever. No other club in world football would put up with the home record alone, so it's baffling how he is still in a job.

That last night was the lowest of the low and anyone can see there's players who do not want to be here. They'd talk the talk obviously. But it sticks out like a sore thumb we know who they are so its pointless naming them.

On another note, someone said the other day if we lose the two big ones (one down one to go) the atmosphere at Bournemouth game will be toxic. Personally I don't think it will. It looks like we've resigned ourselves to the malaise. Sad, sad times indeed.

Rick Tarleton
100 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:24:28
I obviously agree with the excellent article and 90% of the comments. I think Mike Davies is right when he talks of what happened to Billy Bingham, being sacked on the eve of a semi-final, that should be Martinez's fate too.

What kind of manager against a good team, plays a left footed right back? What kind of manager has no defensive substitutes on the bench? What kind of idiot signs a player for £13.5 million and then discovers he's so unfit you can't play him at all?

Martinez your time is up.

Carl Steiner
101 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:26:16
Abysmal performance, worst I've seen and I remember being 0-2 at Wembley (Sheffield Wednesday). A comeback like that is unimaginable right now, in any competition against any club.

Time for Martinez and Kenwright to go. Unsworth (plus players from the Under-21 side) until season end.

Andy Codling
102 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:26:54
Cue "lets get together and get behind the team for saturday" and players saying how we need to "bounce back (partridge) for the fans"
Alex Bennett
103 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:29:32
Chris (#42). I think Kenwright must have multiple ToffeeWeb accounts in fake names. Seriously who are the 11%?
Brendan Fox
106 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:39:53
Summed up eloquently Lyndon and expresses the wish of the majority of the fanbase. If Martinez is not sacked before the FA Cup Semi then the chances of winning that have evaporated. Blue Bill won't do the right thing because it would be an admittance he chose the wrong man for the job. The guillotine will be dropped by Moshiri.

Put a caretaker in charge today in the shape of Unsy backed up by Royle & Sheedy until the end of the season. Try to cobble together a team out of the best of the U21's and 1st team players willing to leave everything on the pitch on Saturday to try and bring some pride back to the supporters and the shirt!

Barry Pearce
107 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:40:34
Thanks Lyndon, that was a brilliant piece. So well measured, and a absolute accurate account of our club right now, under Martinez's tender. 100% agree that the only chance of success Saturday,is if he is sacked today.
Steve Barnes
109 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:41:25
I was quite pleased when Martinez became our Manager. I was really pleased with his first six months or so. I was reluctant to cry for his removal until earlier this year, but it has grown in intensity so now I am completely persuaded that it "IS TIME TO GO".

He cannot manage this team. He brought in some seriously second rate players. He has no Plan B.

Is that the look of confusion, or is it the look of resignation. Lets hope it's both.

It comes to something when nobody is better than somebody.

Kevin Jones
111 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:44:55
Surely there is just cause for a mutiny within the club. If the man at the helm is leading the ship onto the rocks, then surely those below him have a right to place him in the brig and take charge. Joe Royle, Kevin Sheedy and Dave Unsworth all live and breath Everton Football Club, take big Dunc for a bit of muscle, march into his office and take control.

This is not a piss-take I honestly believe this has to happen before Saturday, if these men have any feelings whatsoever for the club they should not stand by and simply watch Martinez make us an even bigger laughing stock, if that's possible after last night's debacle

Christy Ring
112 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:45:09
Excellent article. How can Kenwright watch an incompetent manager, who had no defender on the bench last night, had a left back who was destroyed last Saturday, playing right back, and destroyed again, and let him pick another team, for our last chance of glory.
Moshiri has to take charge now and sack Martinez, and say goodbye to Kenwright.
John Raftery
113 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:45:50
The manager's biggest dereliction of duty was selecting his strongest available starting eleven last night for a meaningless league fixture. Instead of giving us the best possible chance of fielding a strong side on Saturday he placed at risk some key players for whom we have no experienced cover. Now we will be facing a young energetic United team with a group of players whose morale, fitness and cohesion is in tatters. Pray for a miracle.
Phil Walling
114 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:48:26
My fears about the return of Davey Moyes abated somewhat when he said last night that he would be going nowhere until the summer. He confirmed an interest in the Celtic job and, as Deila said yesterday, he was expecting to see this season out at Parkhead, so perhaps Moyes will then take over.

As far as Everton is concerned, if Moshiri is half the businessman we think him to be, he will ensure that the whole Board (and himself) carry out a proper recruitment exercise and whatever BK believes his authority to be, his friendly chats with the likes of Smith and Peg Leg for guidance should be consigned to history.

Nothing but the best.............

Ray Robinson
115 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:58:45
Lyndon, I can't imagine how you have written such a good, accurate piece when clearly still seething like the rest of us. Our best chance of winning on Saturday is surely to dismiss Martinez now?

If we get beat against United, I cannot begin to imagine how poisonous the atmosphere will be like against Bournemouth. I wouldn't wish that on any manager – however incompetent and full of bullshit.

How many season ticket holders are withholding renewal, I wonder?

Roberto Granelli
116 Posted 21/04/2016 at 09:59:47
To paraphrase 'It's the hope that killed us'.

It was my son's first Anfield derby, God help him. Not sure how long the scarring will take to heal... :)

Alan Stubbs, anyone?

Kunal Desai
117 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:01:17
Good articles. The stark reality is that this has all come to a head now. Our demise has been brewing for over 18 months since that 3-0 capitulation away to Southampton, coinciding in 4 straight league defeats he should have been sacked then.
Roberto Granelli
118 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:02:12
Oops, Freudian slip.
Alan Stubbs anyone?
Barry Pearce
119 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:02:19
Joe #89. You got that spot on about Oviedo, you could see after 5 minutes. What his fete was going to be. Your also right he's not good enough to play for us anymore.
Gary Ashworth
122 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:09:26
Last night's game against Liverpool was great... for the first 20 minutes... then the first goal was scored and everything that could go wrong, went wrong! It felt as though I was watching an injured dog being kicked numerous times. It was so bad, even Jurgen Klopp was laughing his socks off at his team's poor efforts on goal.

It's a weird coincidence to think, should we get through to the FA Cup final and Martinez leaves, Joe Royle is mentioned as a temporary replacement. He was the last manager to win the cup. Personally, I believe a temporary option would be a team effort between David Unsworth with Joe Royle and possibly Peter Reid as his advisors.

Then Moshiri will have to use his contacts to find a proven, successful replacement for next season. We brought in Moyes as an up and coming young talented manager, the same was said of Martinez. However, the club is embarking on a new era where money is no longer an issue. Someone like Mourinho or Pellegrini have been there, done that and bought the t-shirts... although getting them to sign for the club would be a challenge.

A bright, upcoming, young manager is great for a club who wants to maintain a respectable presence in the Premier League and look at domestic cups as a bonus. Everton have spent too long in this position, we now look to move forward and take that next step. In order to do this, we need money and an experienced and proven PL manager.

We now have money and we just need the right manager. I had hoped Martinez would be that man, but with everything that is happening at the club right now, I just feel the writing is on the wall.

Dave Whitwell
123 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:16:37
Couldn't agree more with the sentiment of the report.

The only hope we have on Saturday is to have a unified club believing in the future.

Martinez cannot do this.

During the Moyes tenure, there always seemed to be a sense of frustration that maybe we could be better and loose him keep him argument was always divided. But with Martinez I cannot find a single Evertonian that sits in the keep camp, possibly aside from Kenwright.

He must go and it must be before Saturday.

Mike Hughes
124 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:23:03
They are cutting it fine but I'm expecting that over the next 1h 40m, there will be a press conference called at Everton with a taxi on stand-by outside.

RM is toast so why give him the honour of going to Wembley as Everton's manager after he has embarrassed and humiliated us like this?

Roy Noon
125 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:23:31
An accurate and well judged article, summing up the Martinez era pretty well. I just hope the EFC hierarchy think along the same lines.

Sadly, yesterdays result was entirely predictable. I remarked to a friend before the game, I would accept a 2-0 defeat now. The feared humiliation that was in the back of my mind unfortunately came true.

So what now? In my view thank Roberto for his efforts and bid him farewell and give those going to Wembley some sort of shot in the arm and hope for Saturday. Otherwise, I seriously fear another humiliation against the poorest United side since they were relegated back in the 70's.

As regards who should replace Martinez in the short term? Personally, if he is well enough and available, Joe Royle would be my choice.... though, I'm sure there are plenty if other viable short term options. But please, not big Dunc. Can't understand why he is held in such high esteem? Only played when he fancied it. Was a liability when on the pitch, and has had great difficulty managing his own wallet, never mind a football club.

Steve Woods
126 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:23:33
I have seen a couple of instances on various fora where commenters are saying that John Woods walked out of the game at half-time or with 20 minutes to go as Phil Walling (#70) states here.

Phil also states that Mr Moshiri was with him when they departed. I am genuinely keen and interested to know if the reports of their very early departure are accurate as it would give me hope that perhaps something may be afoot and that action may be taken (at last) by what would be a displeased board majority, holding shares of about 58% between them both.

Kenwright OUT!

Martinez OUT!

Shane Corcoran
127 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:27:28
Superb article, putting my thoughts into words better than I ever could.

I thought of the final days of Smith's reign when my head hit the pillow last night. The feeling is very similar and if ever there was a sure bet it's that United will progress on Saturday.

If Martinez is able to pick that team up, mentally and physically, to prove me wrong then I would actually keep him on.........in the very short term, as that would be an amazing achievement.

Liam Reilly
128 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:29:47
Carragher summed it up for me afterwards. To paraphrase: "there's been a lot of talk about this being the best Everton team for years; it isn't". He went on to say that he's never seen a derby or played in one where one team could pass the ball around with so much time and space

How can everyone except Martinez and that arse of a coach fail to see that at 2-nil down and down to 10 ten men; you DON'T PLAY TIPPY TAPPY SHITE in front of your own area.

There was no banks of 4; just headless chickens and no leadership.

Wembley's a big pitch and energy sapping. Could be another bad day out; especially in the last 20 mins if we're still in the game.

Give it to Barry as Player Manager for the remainder of the season.

Please For Fuck Sake; do the honorable thing and just GO!

Steavey Buckley
129 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:37:06
I do believe Everton fans are being disingenuous to Liverpool, who beat us hands down. They were half a yard ahead of Everton in thought, skill, effort and pace. They had 2 gilt-edged chances to put the game away before they scored two soft headed goals.

Yet, for awhile, before Liverpool scored those soft goals, Everton were looking like they could survive until half-time. No matter what team Everton put out last night they would have still been beaten. That is why it made more sense to put out an understrength team to save face.

Guy Hastings
130 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:38:26
What on earth was his team talk at half time?
What on earth did he say at full time?
What on earth can he possibly say today to a squad who, to to my mind, have lost all faith in him?
And please don't anyone say 'phenomenal'.
James Baker
131 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:40:34
Spot on article.

The Board will not sack Martinez until after defeat on Saturday. Why? Because that's not what Everton do and that's why this club continues to lag behind.

The players had fear written all over them last night, headless chickens because they have lost trust and self-belief and are going out expecting to lose... Put Dunc in charge for the remainder of the season and then sell off half the squad. The view of the media that this is potentially an excellent Everton side is rubbish.

Going through the squad, I'd keep only the following:

Robles, Baines, Jagielka, Funes Mori (even after that irresponsible behaviour from last night) Barry, Besic, Lennon, and maybe Barkley as well as the young guns coming through. The rest need to go. Not fit for this club either because of ability and / or attitude.

We expect nothing on Saturday.... except the constant affliction of disappointment that we have to live with... so let's get behind the club, our club and stick together and show much this club means to us. Maybe Moshiri and even some of the players might just feel it. And who knows... pigs might fly!

Peter Roberts
132 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:46:19
I want him gone. ASAP.

I also want to call out that snide Geoff Shreeves for his classless interview. I don't care how bad the manager is - you do not talk about a managers security in his job on live TV like that. Disgusting and SKY need to do something about him. They won't they love being snides themselves.

Ged Simpson
133 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:46:55
Liam – I think Carragher often talks sense about us. In his heart. His view was so right. After 30 mins we gave up.

As for fitness. Will never ever understand that. I imagine RM thinks the ball does the work. Ummm

Phil Walling
134 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:49:34
Ask Wenger if 'you don't about a manager's security in a job', Peter. You must live in a sheltered world !
Declan Brown
136 Posted 21/04/2016 at 10:59:16
Been sick all week. Last night was brutal.

Never witnessed us getting a four goal thrashing by a Liverpool team in my lifetime. Twice now under Roberto. The first one was a horror show that left me mentally scarred for the Anfield Derby's after that.

But last night. No tackling, no pressing, no effort, no heart, no pride, no passion. Nothing. Not even a shot on target all game. As a manager in a Derby, you know you're done when that happens.

Attempts at Goal Liverpool 37-3 Everton
Attempts on Target Liverpool 13-0 Everton
Touches in opposition box Liverpool 64-3 Everton.

Word is that Moshiri and Woods stormed out after the third goal, so did Graeme Sharp. I'd say the wheels are being put in motion this morning.

With the Semi Final looming large, if Roberto gets the boot they will have to have the back-up plan in place immediately, which means sounding out temporary replacements tasked with the semi final which will put a load of pressure on them instantly.

Either that or we're waiting for the Semi Final outcome before taking action. There's not enough time to get someone in to re-arrange things for the semi preparation wise. If this had happened a week ago I'd say Roberto was toast right after the final whistle in the Derby.

The new largest shareholder billionnaire storming out with 30 minutes still to go at Anfield? I'd say it's safe to say that Roberto is drowning in the brown stuff this morning.

I suspect he will get the semi and he's out after that regardless of the outcome. I'd guess with a lot of certainty this morning at Everton HQ is about getting a replacement in, in the guise of a temporary one until the summer. He won't be sacked until a replacement is ready to be put in instantly.

I think last night was fatal for Roberto. Great article Lyndon. If Roberto is still there for the Bournemouth game...good luck to him.

Karl Parsons
137 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:01:09
The time for talking has got to stop. We (the fans) own this amazing Club, nobody else. If as expected we get booted out on Saturday and nothing still happens to that Spanish quilt then it's time for us to do the talking.

A well planned, coordinated show of strength at the next home game that makes the Manager's position (and maybe that of Kenwright,who in my mind is equally to blame) untenable.

Keith Burke
138 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:09:25
Today is the worst feeling I have had in 30 years following the blues! I remember three years ago when he was appointed being slated for being negative about his appointment but you only have to look at his track record over last 7 or 8 years!

The club is a mess from top to bottom from our inept manager and small club back room staff 'David Lawrence' anyone to our clueless commercial setup. Last night needs to be a watershed and no more can the malaise continue.

Looking at some of the players' faces last night at the end told us all we have known for months now – the game is up for this set-up. Make no mistake, we will be fighting relegation next season with this 'best squad of worst players'.

Ged Simpson
139 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:09:59
At 2004 EGM, Woods said: "Well my colleagues have had a lot to say, as has been evident in the last few months. But this is hardly a forum where there is anything to contribute, necessarily. I've quite a lot to say in normal Board affairs, or the company's affairs – so there isn't really much more to add other than I did put my hand in my pocket to rescue this club in earlier days, though that's all now long forgotten along with my colleagues (Bill Kenwright and Paul Gregg) here. There isn't anything more to say."
Phil Walling
140 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:12:31
That may well be so, Karl, but this morning Martinez is still spouting his nonsense and telling us all 'to FORGET last night' and how 'the players will show their character on Saturday'.

There really is no hope, is there? The Board is moribund – even with the new blood – and we are expected to cheer that excuse for a manager and his so-called team in two days' time.

Not me, until he's gone!

John Louis Jones
141 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:15:06
I'm sat on NewsNow, waiting any sort of news... a presser? Anything.

I watch on an American channel last night and the commentators said that Woods and Moshiri had walked out.

Something has to happening right?

Andrew Ellams
142 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:15:22
If we are out of the cup after this weekend then for me Stones and Lukaku should never wear the blue shirt again. Tell them they can have their moves in the summer and then ship them off to Ibiza or wherever.
Matt Henderson
143 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:15:29
The longer this downward spiral is allowed to continue the harder it will be to recover. I would definitely sack him now and agree with those that say it is our best chance of success on Saturday. It is also our best way of preparing for next season as the interim manager should be told to play the kids for the rest of the premier league season.

We can also openly look for a new manager for next year from now. If Roberto stays for the rest of the year he will be under so much pressure to win that there is no way he will play kids and, in the long term, this will cause further damage. We need to try and finish the season with some positives for next season and Roberto going NOW is the best way to do this.

Damian Wilde
144 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:18:46
I felt despair last night, worse than I have ever felt as a Blue, I preferred watching us under Walker.

I also think it's a myth he's a nice guy, he stamps on anyone who gets in his way. Arrogant man who is ruining our club. I was hoping I'd wake up to 'Martinez gone', sadly not. But don't fret everyone, G.Jones' skills from Bridlington Utd will save us.

Matt Henderson
145 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:21:55
We should definitely keep Stones for next year, even it is just so he can inflate his sale price back to what it was last season through some proper performances. He is a young guy who will be a great player if managed by someone with even a modicum of knowledge on how to defend, and who can iron out the flaws in Stones defending skills.

John Stones has been severely let down by Martinez. All our defenders, some who have been excellent in the past, look horrific under this manager! And I am sure all would look much, much better under a proper management team.

Patrick Murphy
146 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:23:20
From the reports I have read Mr Moshiri was not at Anfield last night, Woods, Elstone and Moshiri's representative in the boardroom were there, two of them stayed to the bitter end and Woods left his seat shortly following the third goal.

I don't think that Martinez will be sacked before June 1st at the earliest, but I can't see him being in charge for pre-season. I would imagine that Moshiri will want to have a new manager in the bag before booting the current one out. I also think that the club will remain much the same until the accounts for 2015-16 are finalised.

I would expect that once those accounts are passed, we will see the end of the Kenwright era and a new Everton chapter will begin. At least I hope that to be the case, because they are the only reasons I can see for Roberto and his back-room boys remaining in their positions a minute longer.

This current situation is far bigger than whether the manager should stay or go, it is a period that needs careful handling and shrewd decision making, we as fans can react passionately and vocally, but we need the people in power to be calm and focussed in order to arrive at the right decisions, because what transpires in the next few months will in all probability shape the club for the next ten years.

I'd rather wait a few weeks/months for Everton to get it right off the pitch in order to fix things on the pitch.

If the club carry on in the same vein as they have for the past 15 years then the 'takeover' will be seen as a sham and we will witness the club falling down the table and find ourselves in a similar place which Aston Villa now occupy.

Mike Galley
147 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:24:21
First of all, my apologies for not reading all the comments after Lyndon's excellent (as usual) opening piece. I'm afraid I'm just too bloody depressed by it all!

To the future. I personally think this is one of the biggest summers in Everton recent, even total, history. I'm talking about the new manager. I believe if we go for another middle of the road, conservative choice (someone like Alan Stubbs, with respect to our former player) then we are setting ourselves for more of the same of our recent past.

I really believe we have to go for a managerial big hitter this time. They've done it with Klopp I'm sorry to say. I don't know if someone like Simeone is feasible, but we have to set the bar that high for ourselves. Anything else, and I honestly can't see anything getting better any time soon.

Dick Fearon
148 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:26:40
I could re post any number of articles starting from 2 years ago in which I made the case for sacking Martinez.

Many were raving on about 'joined-up football' while I was trying to point out how damn slow and boring it was and how fraught with danger.

As fans gradually came to the same conclusions and in light of on field reversals made their views known Martinez became more vocal in support of his possession mantra.

We are faced with a stark reality of unthinkable relegation. Even his most loyal sycophants have seen the light. Along with main stream media they are partly to blame for our predicament.

I certainly have any sympathy for Martinez who has received a millionaire wage and failed in so many aspects.

Ernie Baywood
149 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:34:39
Jeez Dick... "loyal sycophants". By which you mean people who were hoping we could have some kind of balance to the side?

There remains nothing wrong with having more of the ball. That's not what has undone Martinez. For the majority of this season his chief issue was defence and an inability to make sound decisions to see out a game. The slow passing stuff wasn't great to watch but it was returning goals.

I'm sure there'll be people out in force about the next guy too. As early as possible they'll tell us that we'll never win the league with our current manager and it will eventually fall apart. In all likelihood they'll be right. But that just doesn't feel like being a supporter to me. You have to have hope. If you don't, what are you doing?

John Zapa
150 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:35:15
I really feel there is a huge over reaction by most on this site. Sure the result was terrible; however, I would not put the blame purely on Martinez. It it would be wrong to ignore just how good Liverpool were and not only yesterday, but for the last couple months.

They put 4 past a superb Dortmund side, Man City and even Stoke conceded 4 with Liverpool reserve team. They are riding high on a big wave and Everton happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

For all Martinez's faults, he has significantly improved the quality of the squad, brought down the average age of the squad. With many of the senior players who hardly play a game leaving this summer it would be a further chance to improve, as he generally has had a good record in the transfer market. I certainly would trust him to replace the old deadwood that is departing.

Many have used the recent signing of Niasse as a stick to beat him with, however he has generally been protective of deploying new signing from overseas and bloods them in slowly. I don't see this as a negative, it was the same with Deulofeu, Funes Mori and others. If you were to sell all the Martinez signings today, it would generate a decent profit, which would indicate a good transfer policy.

Another aspect of annoyance to many is his repeated use of certain words in interviews such as 'incredible', 'phenomenal' etc... sure he is the eternal optimist and always tries to paint a bright picture even the darkest days. It sure is much better than being negative and angry. Players are protected generally and not thrown under the bus. When Baines spoke out recently about the lack of chemistry, Martinez's reaction was misunderstood. I believe he didn't intend on attacking Baines, but protecting the integrity of the group.

As such, I believe Martinez deserves our support and should be given another season at least to make the required changes.

Barry Pearce
151 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:35:31
We must get the next appointment right, from top to bottom. Thus our most defining summer for many many years.

Get it wrong again, and I think the unspeakable will happen.

Ernie Baywood
152 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:36:59
You make reasonable enough points, John. But you'd better get your tin hat on....
John Louis Jones
153 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:38:11
Apprently Wood and the Vice Chairman Walked after the 60tth Minute. Surley it is just Kenwright keeping Martinez in a job now?

Vice chairman The Russian guy?

Mark Fitzgerald
155 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:43:08
Great article again Lyndon.
Dug out another excellent piece that you scribed back in January following the loss to Man City in the Capital Cup Semi. Your closing paragraph is as apt today as it was back then.

"Put bluntly, Everton under Martinez are simply not as good as either he or they think they are and the gathering signs are that they never will be under his stewardship. The potential is there but the same refrain from the manager regarding a young side that is “getting close to being a winning team” is getting old. He has had ample time to demonstrate that he has the answers to a worsening defensive record and a succession of unacceptable results but the grim realisation now is that he has taken our club as far as he can. Whether there is any appetite — or capacity, for that matter — at boardroom level to make the decision to replace him in the face of that deteriorating record, however, remains to be seen".

Uncanny, eh? The fall from grace has been gathering momentum for so long that he is now in free-fall. Personally disappointed that I'm not reading of his sacking/resignation already.

Keith Harrison
156 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:45:01
In one way, John above is correct, it isn't purely Martinez's fault.

Martinez did not actually step on the pitch, he was not playing. He might have not set the team up right, his bench was worse than my first ever attempt at woodwork at school, and he might have filled their heads with his usual bullshit, but he was not on the pitch.

There are too many people in that team who are either not pulling their weight, refusing to try for the manager, or playing like headless chickens. The first two are absolutely indefensible for me, regardless of their relationship with the manager. If they don't like him that much, have a word in ears – there are plenty of people who would listen if there was something valid to say. It is simply not acceptable them getting very well rewarded via my money, and all other long-suffering supporters cash.

The third one is simply down to the players involved. How have two England stars, Baines, and Stones turned into gibbering wrecks?

Not only does Martinez have to go – and today if possible – the next manager needs to take a long hard look at those players who have ALSO let us down very very badly this season.

Shaun Traynor
157 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:49:41
This man will take us down and needs to go today.

He will lose Lukaku and Stones this summer on top losing the rest of the dressing room mentally, he will be given the biggest financial war chest this club has ever had and will only be able to attract money grabbing cunts who don't give two shits about us and Martinez will inevitably not be able to control or will buy sub par Wigan standard players (Cleverly, Koné, Alcaraz, Niasse, McCarthy) who will just be happy to be playing in the Premier League and that to me is a recipe for disaster. Yes he attracted Lukaku and Deulofeuy 3 years go, but do you think they would join us now??

We need to get shot of him immediately and bring in a manager that has proven experience on all levels, can manage big names, is a winner and demands respect and who can ultimately attract top players and rebuild what Martinez has destroyed.

I am hoping for Mancini or De Boer.

We need to move away from the Eddie Howes and young new managers with limited proven experience. We need to take advantage of what we hope Mr Moshiri is offering us and go and become the team and environment we know we can be.

I'll be there on Saturday with zero confidence but hoping we do them and get a result!

Geoff Williams
158 Posted 21/04/2016 at 11:54:36
I was reasonably happy with the team Martinez selected and thought they would put up a decent fight - sadly they didn't, but the bench he decided upon was dire. I could see no point in picking Osman, Penarth or Niasse. Why not give youth a chance? It's paid off Spurs and Utd.
John Louis Jones
159 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:04:07
Paddy Power as Martinez 2/1 to be sacked.
Please let this happen.
Craig Walker
160 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:04:34
Excellent analysis as ever Lyndon.

I don't like Jamie Carragher but what he said last night is correct. This isn't one of the best Everton teams since the mid 80s. The league table, if anything flatters them. We're so desperate for success that we take any green shoots and convince ourselves that we are heading back to the big time. If the likes of Stones, Barkley, McCarthy, Lukaku, Cleverley were as good as they thought they were then we'd be a force again.

Martinez has been a good ambassador and he is a likeable bloke. This has shielded him from criticism up to now. The Man City away leg was the final straw for me. I said after that that I never wanted to see John Stones in an Everton shirt again. Some posters on TW questioned me saying that.

There have been sporadic good performances, predominantly in his first season. The games against Arsenal and Man United spring to mind. The clues were there though towards the end of that first season. The capitulation at Southampton with two own goals, one by the beleaguered Alcaraz. The hammering at Anfield was a nadir until last night. Crystal Palace outfoxing us at home. Overplaying against Sunderland on Boxing Day when we only needed two wins to go a calendar year undefeated at home and losing a comedy goal. The capitulation in the cup game against Arsenal.

Roberto would get a modicum of respect from me if he said that it isn't working and he needs to leave before the semi final. It feels very much like the Walter Smith days.

I woke my 5 year old son up this morning to tell him that we'd lost 4-0 and he was dreading going into school to face two LFC fans in his class. Welcome to life as an Evertonian son!

Brian Harrison
161 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:11:51
Lyndon, over two seasons back, I started calling RM a charlatan and was promptly put on the naughty chair. Sadly, my predictions came true and I get no pleasure from that at all. I can't believe he hasnt been sacked already, but Kenwright wants his legacy to be he always stood behind his managers even when they had lost the fans.

So Mr Moshiri, as I said in an article over a week ago, it's time you took control, when you were a shareholder at Arsenal you and Usmanov sent a letter to the board complaining over the team under Wenger were performing. Well, you are the major shareholder now so get off your arse and sack the charlatan today. Not wait till we have been knocked out of the FA Cup. That's not leadership – that's dereliction of duty.

Many thousands of us are off to Wembley, so make the change and let Joe Royle take charge. I know it probably won't change us from an unfit and under performing team. But he will tell them what playing for Everton should mean. There will be no clap trap from Joe, he will at least send them out fired up, more than RM ever does.

Xavier Spencer
162 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:11:57
John @ 150. Really? Shall we add Kone, McGeady, Robles, (don't tell me he's a good keeper because he happened to get his legs in the way of a couple of shots last night) and Cleverly to the list of his stellar signings?

And before you sing the praises of Deulofeu and Funes Mori, you should ask yourself what have they actually done on the field this season? They have been as accident prone and inconsistent as the rest of the rabble.

So, Roberto got lucky with a couple of signings? So fucking what I say. What matters is how the eleven he puts out on the park play, week-in & week-out and what I saw last night was a collective display of cowardice and ineptitude.

The buck stops with the boss. I'm fucking furious now. I'm sick of reading these threads and contributing to them while Kenwright does fuck all. If he had any respect for his 'beloved' Everton or more importantly the fans he'd sack Martinez immediately.

Denis Richardson
163 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:16:47
John 150 - I have to first say you're a brave man and everyone is entitled to an opinion but there is only one thing I can agree with you on re your post and that is you can't just blame Martinez. Bill Kenwright is just as responsible for what happened last night and what has been happening fo the last 12-18 months. If he had an arse in his trousers he would have shown Martinez the door a long time ago.

Taking you other points;

- Liverpool may have been playing better than us in recent weeks and have a far superior manager but you're missing the main point. This was a local derby and all form goes out of the window. The players should be 150% motivated and passionate about the game and our players are no worse than the Liverpools man for man. The players obviously are not behind the manager anymore and that coupled with the flawed tactics and lack of fitness resulted in the farse that was last night. The players are obviously not free from blame but the main blame lies with the brown showed spaniard. He for instance was the one who chose not to have any defenders on the bench and include Niasse - who apparently can't even play!

- significantly improved the squad. Other than Lukaku, is the squad really that much better than 3 years ago? Remember we had a much younger Osman and Pienaar then (who both played a big part in RMs first season) as well as a younger Mirallas and Distin. The likes of Cleverley, Lennon, Besic, Deulofeu and Niasse have not pulled up any trees yet. Barry was a good signing but its a bit embarassing that he's now our best midfielder. McCarthy is a championship player imo. Kone is marginally better than Anichebe, only just.

- Age. Most of this season we had Howard in goal, Barry in CM and Jags at CB - all not far off retirement. Coleman is 27, Mirallas 28, Lennon 29, Baines 31, Kone 32. Age may have come down a bit but people seem to think just because of Stones, Barkely and Lukaku we somehow have a team full of kids. McCarthy also now 25.

- Language. Last nights post match interview was the FIRST time the manager has actually described the game accurately. Every other interview is filled with so much hyerbole and bollocks that the words never match what actually happened on the pitch. The actual words used by Martinex only became irritating once it was obvious to most that they were nonsense. If the guy simply called a spade a spade from day one, he would not be as hated as he is now.

Bill Kenwright and Roberto Martinez + backroom staff all need to leave Everton ASAP.

Rob Coles
164 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:17:09
Speaking about the game, manager Roberto Martinez told the Liverpool Echo: “It wasn't good enough. It was a horrible, horrible night. Nobody deserved to experience that.

“But we have to move on quickly and repay our fans with a proper, proper performance and proper showing in the semi-final. We shouldn't dwell on this game too much."

Well MR MARTINEZ...........We will dwell on this match 'A LOT', because WE HAD to watch or listen to it.........YOU stood and watched as the carcrash that is Everton Football Club that YOU created totally disintegrated..............WE had to listen to the taunts from the KOP and to face the reality in work this morning.......... you promised different...........YOU promised Champions' League.....YOU promised and promised and still no return.........YOU NEED TO GO............and NOT lead out OUR TEAM at Wembley on Saturday..........YOU have brought this club that some people have feelings for into total disrepute............BE A MAN for a change and WALK ON, WALK ON...............WE DON'T DESERVE YOU............NSNO..............and when you've gone we will discuss the Titanic, or is it the Royal Daffodil that Captain BK and his cronies have piloted onto the rocks................IN WHOM CAN WE TRUST?

Paul Doyle
166 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:19:02
He was doomed once that stupid mural went up on the side of the main stand.
Tony Woods
167 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:20:48
Excellent article and well informed comments. The frustrating part for me is that much of this has been said for weeks. Yet not one word from the Board. The last comment that I know of is BK telling Moshiri we had a great manager. We all now know the Emperor stands naked.
John Louis Jones
168 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:21:29
John (#150).

What the hell are you talking about?

Chris Lawlor
169 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:25:46
It comes to something when an army of Evertonians march on the South this weekend in the mind that a defeat may be of more value to us than a win which would keep our ineffectual leader on his throne. Never in my time as a Blue have I looked forward to a Wembley visit less. Summer is coming .... and change must come too.
Barry Jones
170 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:27:12
Dick, I was also in your camp two years ago and got hammered on here for my comments. Ernie, yes we want to entertain more, but at what cost to the morale of the team and supporters. RM has clearly lost the confidence of the players and in my opinion, has done for some time. Everton used to be a club known for a harmonious, united dressing room. Not any more. That is sad.
Phil Sammon
171 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:30:04
John (#150),

It's as if you've only watched one match in the last 2 years.

A one-off 4-0 spanking would be bad enough alone...but this bad blood is a tragic culmination of 2 years of shite.

I honestly don't know how ANYONE can back the manager at this stage. He's proved beyond all doubt that he's not capable of sorting out the same problems he was having TWO YEARS AGO.

Christy Ring
172 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:30:18
John Zapa, You're having a laugh

1), A huge over reaction; 2) How good the redshite are; and 3) it's not Martinez's fault... Are you in cuckoo land?

Carragher couldn't believe Martinez formation last night. Why he played Oviedo on the right, after being destroyed on the left last Saturday, no defenders on the bench. It's completely his fault.

As for you're assessment of Liverpool, Rodgers was 'SACKED' , after the 1-1 draw at Goodison. This is the same team with a different manager. What does that tell us???????

Iain Latchford
173 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:30:39
Has anyone heard even the slightest rumour he's going to be sacked before Saturday??

Please....I need some hope !!

Gavin Johnson
174 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:30:46
A well written article Lyndon. You should attach it to an email and send it to BK.

I have a horrible feeling that BK will still let Martinez lead the team out on Saturday but the writing was well and truly on the wall last night. Relieve him of his duties today and let Joe Royle and Unsworth take care of things. Even if we lose, we'll do it with our heads held high.

Putting someone else in charge is the only decisive thing that will galvanise the players and supporters alike.

Antony Matthews
175 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:33:14
Any sign of the press congregating outside Finch Farm?
James Hughes
176 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:35:54
John (#150) give him another season are you serious? Get your head out of the sand man.

Give that idiot another season and we will be in the championship with a worse record that Villa next term.

Did you see that the Liverpool Echo refused to give Mignolet a rating as he had nothing to do all game. Now that is embarrassing and shameful

Tony Steele
177 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:36:02
Respectfully put.
Denis Richardson
178 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:41:54
Silence from GP is deafening. Semi is only 2 days away.....

Have a horrible feeling RM is going to be in charge. I thought the game tomorrow was too big for the players not to be up for it but from the off you knew what the outcome would be. That makes be anxious about the semi. Surely the game is so big that the players can ignore the manager and do it for the fans?

Then again, Lukaku is already half way out and Stones is too scared and looks like he can't hack it mentally. Barry Is probably out (can't see him recovering in 3 days from a groin strain unless he plays with injections – not exactly ideal but will be his last semi). Jags and Coleman out. It's almost a question of seeing who's standing on sat before picking the team.

Could really do worse than putting 2 youngsters in and binning Stones. Oviedo cannot play at right-back on Saturday!

Paul Goodchild
179 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:42:13
A great article. On current form we are the worst team in the league, except Villa.

A first class manager makes all the difference. Look how improved Liverpool are with effectively the same squad. Look at the difference Benitez has made to Newcastle in a short space of time.

With the increase in TV revenue next season, it is absolutely essential the next managerial appointment is correct. It could define our status for the next 20 years or so. Next season all the big teams are going to improve. The wrong choice it could set us back years. We could well fall behind the likes of West Ham, Stoke, Leicester, etc.

The change has to be soon before Lukaku, Stones and Barkley leave. All 3 have to be aware of the new set up before they are gone anyway.

Rick Tarleton
180 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:42:21
This is the worst manager and I go back to Cliff Britton. worse than Ian Buchan, Gordon Lee, Kendall Mk 2 and Mk 3, Mike Walker, Walter Smith and Moyes in his later years. He's the worst because he has no idea what he is doing: not one defender on the bench, a left-footed right back against a top team and as for the clown he bought for £13.5 million who is unable or unwilling to play.

Words fail me, Martinez's perpetual excuses and his inability to train his team to show any defensive nous prove that he simply has no idea what he is doing.

Please go, please sack him.

Gary Clarke
181 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:51:13
I've never posted on the ToffeeWeb before, but right now I feel that I've got to get this off my chest. I didn't want Roberto to manage our club in the first place. I wouldn't have been happy with Steve Bruce, and the same goes for Paul Jewell, and I think you could argue a case that both had been more successful as Wigan managers than Roberto. But we hired him, and from the first cringe worthy comment he was ours, and we backed him.

After the first season I held my hand up and said it looks like I was way off the mark, and he's capable of doing the job, but ever since I said that, Roberto seems to be going out of his way to make a c**t out of me.

Now I don't want Everton to become a knee jerk sacking club, but after sitting through eleven years of Moyes brand of mostly sensible /percentage football, we'd got ourselves into a position were the foundations were in place for the right manager to come along and build us a temple that our patients deserved. But instead we got Roberto to come along and start smashing up the foundations that we'd been forced to watch being built. And I stongly feel that the longer we leave him in charge, the more likely it becomes that we'll need a David Moyes type manager to build our confidence and reputation again.

I personally don't want that, I appreciate the job that Moyes did, and I recognise that he certainly left us in a better position than when we found him (and paid him extremely well), but it's time to move on and up. The next manager needs to be a proven winner, with a track record of winning, with similar funds and support to what we'll be giving him. We can only guess what that is, but the people in charge of hiring our man will know. It's not rocket science, success leaves clues, and one shiny cup and a relegation isn't what I want t to see on the next managers C.V .

Lastly, I'm sure that Roberto is a lovely,decent man, and I wish him all the best wherever he goes, but leaving him in charge of Everton's war chest, would be like leaving a monkey in charge of a machine gun.
Steve Guy
182 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:51:16
In the second half, as we unraveled so spectacularly, all RM could do was stare into space. No ideas, no passion, just arms folded looking at nothing in particular. How can Kenwright continue to justify support for a bloke so clearly out of his depth?

Ian Burns
183 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:51:19
John Zapa (#150) – once I have posted I never come back for a second shot, I always leave it to my fellow TW readers, unless it is a short response to somebody who has required a short response.

However, your post has caused me to break my habit to say there is absolutely nothing in what you say that will make sense to the vast majority of Evertonians; it is as far out of touch as our hierarchy for not taking dismissal action after that garbage last night – TOTAL LACK OF CHEMISTRY as one of his players has been trying to point out to him.

The players' performance is ultimately the responsibility of the manager and his coaching staff – he is out of time and I pray shortly out of office.

Anthony Lamb
185 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:52:39
Congratulations, Lyndon, on your article. However, while the TW site is a wonderful opportunity for Evertonians to share their thoughts about the club, we do have to face the fact that in truth it is simply a forum for Evertonians to "talk to themselves".

How long have significant numbers of the support base been able to see the shambolic mismanagement of the team allied to the often risible attempts by the manager to communicate honestly with the public? A mismanagement that seems to have reached the absolute pits at Anfield if all reports are to be believed, for I could not bear to watch what was an inevitable outcome.

The letters page is hardly likely to prompt the urgent action that is needed so perhaps the only way that fans' disgust can be conveyed is through direct action, namely to refuse to support this management and its team by actually refusing to attend the remaining home/ away games? This of course will fall to individual choice as sadly there is no "Supporters' Union' so it will not be a complete boycott in any sense but hopefully a significant one in that it may send a direct message to the Board that we will not have our loyalty, love for, and commitment to Everton Football Club trampled underfoot or exploited any further by this lack of professional competence and integrity at every level.

Just a couple of further points. Are we mathematically free from the threat of relegation? If not we are definitely in deep trouble. If we are in fact assured of survival then make a stand against players such as Lukaku' s arrogant disdain for common courtesy expected towards his employers and their support base. Bring and end to the nonsense of having players such as Hibbert, Gibson, Pienaar etc being paid £50,000 a week or so for going to the gym for years on end. Oh and please could we ourselves put an end to this worshipping of "tough guy Big Dunc". In case we have not noticed he is a member of the team producing this shambles, he is part of the problem not the solution.

Duncan McDine
186 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:54:11
For me, he has to go now. Plenty of reasons written above but the big reason for me is this....

If Roberto isn't sacked before Saturday, he could actually win the FA Cup for us. If that happened the board would be almost forced to keep him in charge for next season. We then lose our only goal threat in the summer (done deal) and probably let him relegate us next season (Benteke/Villa, RM's 4th season at Wigan).

Maynard Hanna
187 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:54:18
Couldn't agree more. Well written, Sir. RM is out of his depth.

Last year the Everton road show visited Belfast. I said then at that meeting that with our season hopes of Euro qualification gone and Howard injured that the manager should use the remaining fixtures to have a look at Robles in order to see if he could be a long time replacement and if that did not look like being the case that come May 2015 we could hunt down a new keeper as a matter of priority.

I told those representing Everton who were in attendance that the manager in selecting Howard to play after his injury was a big mistake. Such a decision lacked vision. Worse I now realise that RM did not see that Tim was in his swansong days and that our need for an efficient and reliable keeper was not paramount in his mind. Martinez had limited vision. His player assessment was well and truly up the left. His tactical awareness is poor and especially so during games where he has often struggled to cope with opposition managerial changes made to capitalise on his Everton side's weakness's. YES he should have been relieved of his responsibilities last evening.

I, like you, Lyndon, believe that that would represent our only chance for this Saturday. Royle could see us through until the end of the current season. Then decisions could be made. I take no pleasure in calling for anyone to loose their job but the truth is that at any other premiership club he would have already gone. And lets not forget the fact and we now know why Liverpool rejected his services and they have already removed the man that they choose in preference to RM.

Maybe just maybe we should take a leaf out of Liverpool's book. Next season it looks as though it will be Champions League football for them and for us??

John Louis Jones
188 Posted 21/04/2016 at 12:59:35
What is quite funny, Everton FC Facebook page has this morning put old pictures of our team being at Wembley.

Every comment is calling for Martinez head, plus the hashtag Propagenda.

Everton are trying and failing to paper the cracks, however there is no hiding on social media.

Really hope that they get the message.

Joe Clitherow
189 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:01:31
John 150

At the risk of sounding like a teacher going over someone's mock GCSE essay....

Rather than just spout trite and easy stuff like "I'd give him another year" could you do the harder bit and show your workings out that brought you to this conclusion? In particular could you refer back to evidence based on examples on either a macro (i.e. over a period of time) or micro (game to game basis) timeline. At your discretion, you can either limit your answers to his current tenure at Everton or widen this out to the totality of his top flight record.

No marks will be awarded for development of points which rest on purely spurious and untrue foundations (e.g. "We play fast flowing attacking football", "We score goals for fun", "some of our play is a joy to watch", "We just need to make a couple of tweaks to our defence and hey presto!! Champions League!")

"No marks" can also be used as a reference phrase to Messrs Martinez, Jones and Lawrence within the context of describing their relative qualifications and suitability for their current roles within Everton Football Club.

Oliver Molloy
190 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:02:15
Alan Stubbs! somebody suggested...

I think we need to be aiming at a manager who will attract players and perhaps might make some think twice about leaving.....

Ray Robinson
191 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:02:29
John #150. This is in no way an over-reaction. I finally realised (I'd had my doubts before) that Martinez was not the right guy to manage us after a 2-0 away defeat by Stoke over a year ago. It was every bit as bad as last night's defeat even though the score doesn't suggest as such.

We've survived this year on the basis of a handful of really great performances. The remaining games have been mind-numbing dross, the memories of which have already faded despite Martinez's post match interviews trying to convince otherwise. I would have had for more respect for the guy if he'd been more realistic and less delusional. He insults my and everyone else's intelligence virtually every time he opens his mouth to spout yet more bullshit. Long overdue time to go!

Anthony Hawkins
192 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:02:30
There's a group of presumably non-Everton fans who seem to promote Martinez's approach as positive and well positioned for Job like Real Madrid or even England.

Here's what I think. They might well be right.

Everton has the best players it's had in years and I do fervently believe that Everton are massively under-performing. But they're not Real Madrid quality players. They're not even Man City/Chelsea of a few years back quality players. Capable of top4? I think so. And that's where Martinez's plans fall foul.

If a manager has a squad of world beaters or international quality players (England?) then he can afford to play tactics that extol the attacking virtues to the exclusion of defensive duties.

The whole team has to use the formation and tactics that play to their strengths. Look at Leicester. They've come from nowhere but play as a cohesive team. Spurs, they're playing as a unit and to their strengths. Man Utd aren't doing too badly now they're playing to their teams strengths.

When a manager continually removes the most creative players from the field because they're getting tired, even though they are playing above the other team members... When the team is chasing a goal and the forward gets taken off for a defender... When a goalkeeper continues to be used when everyone can see his confidence and ability is not where it should be... When a manager continues to deploy ideal tactics that don't underpin the teams strengths...

It all leads to one ending.

Martinez should go. NOW. If a caretaker manager can not galvanize the team to win the FA Cup, the existing manager certainly won't.

If Martinez stays all I see is the team being pulled apart.

Gavin Johnson
193 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:08:19
John #150 I'm guessing you must be one of the silent majority of well wishers Roberto was talking about. I admire your bravery for putting your head above the parapet.

I've stuck with Roberto through thick and thin (mostly thin) for the last 2 seasons. On the basis of the first season I thought he should be given a 3rd season in charge in case last year was 2nd season syndrome and teething problems that would be put right this season. It hasn't, and will never be put right while Martinez is Everton manager. He could have sacked Dennis Lawrence in the summer and got someone from the Moyes era to cover defensive duties. He didn't because he is totally inflexible.

I'm going to go against the grain and say I still think that Martinez has some very good qualities as a manager and at a different club in a different league abroad, he might have more success. But he'll never be a top, top manager because he doesn't listen. He's had 18 months to put this right, but he hasn't because his philosophy goes above anything else. The quote where he says he doesn't put teams out to keep clean sheets, but win games tells a thousand words. That's all well and good if you manage Barca and have forward players like Messi, Neymar & Suarez who are guaranteed to score. We don't have that luxury and never will. We've been depending on Rom's goals all season. Now they've dried up and he wants to go and Martinez as well and truly been found out. HE HAS TO GO...!!!

Paul Birmingham
195 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:21:09
It's the last call now and it is all but done. The club has been transformed into mediocrity and enough is enough, hard facts over the last 25 moths about EFCs form don't lie. All the RS couldn't believe how we didn't put up any fight, their easiest win in Derby history.

If the board is decisive soon, we may yet salvage this plane crash of s disaster, the experiment is over, now surely?.Will this mean lessons learned for EFC on and off the park?

Good luck to Ash, Jamie and co and all on the road this weekend, and let's hope that, EFC can salvage some pride.
Ray Jacques
196 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:22:56
John, 150,

Oh dear, you state your opinions well but I have to disagree with all of them. Just choked on my Pot Noodle!!

Stephen Beattie
197 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:27:41
Agree he should go. But also think that we have a very important job to do.

Our job now is to be 'Supporters' - whoever is in charge Saturday.

I reckon it isn’t a great idea to do anything except get behind the team. We need to stand up and be counted here - especially if we lose. We really have no choice. No one will come to a club who's fans are deserting them anyway.

Let's send a strong message of support for our club (not Martinez) now by not booing, not sodding off early, not losing our sense of humour and not whining. We are the club. Managers, Players, Stadia, kits come and go. But we keep turning up like the stars who determinedly stayed in the Annie Road till the bitter end last night. I nearly turned it off on the telly and I was on my own! Just think how hard it was a to have load of jeering Norwegians laughing at you.

Let's not let our club down. Let's rise above this and show the rest of the country, Moshiri, Man U, whoever. Every body is expecting is to go out with a whimper Saturday. Well let's show em. This is a big opportunity to overturn a few expectations. We are Everton.

Damian Wilde
199 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:36:16
John (#150) – anyone who thinks he should stay is 'mad', like Martinez is.
Kevin Judge
201 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:37:43
I was one of a few I might add of supporting Roberto.But after last night that is it.

Why now are we still waiting for him to be sacked!!

Roberto is a nice man likable, but he has not listened to anyone on his overall management of our club.

Sadly last night was the worsed experience of ever being a Evertonian in my 53 years of being a loyal blue.

Also these so called international players are a disgrace to our club to.No fight non interested at all.

I only hope now we get a top class manger to bring us the good times back to our great club.

Got that much to say but sadly myself can't be bothered.

Chris Walmsley
202 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:51:06
Sent today...

One of my dying fathers final wishes...

Dear Bill

I hope you are feeling better.

I have been an Evertonian for 54 years.

My late Father, who died 12 days ago, was a proud Evertonian for over 82 years.

One of my father's dying wishes was for me to write to you and ask you to relieve Mr Martinez of his duties.

Only the best is good enough for us Evertonians and Mr Martinez is far from being the best manager available to us.

I would strongly suggest that you need to put him, the players and every Evertonian out of their prolonged misery and sack him today.

One of the famous Evertonians who work for you – Kevin Sheedy, David Unsworth or Joe Royle – can then lead the team out on Saturday with renewed energy and pride.

You and the board will then have the time you need to make the right managerial appointment ahead of the pre-season.

This next appointment is clearly critical – a proven safe pair of hands please – a man who spends the next two/three years repairing the damage that has been done to our wonderful club during the Martinez years.

Yours sincerely


Mark Andersson
203 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:55:01
Jay Wood 96. I agree with you 100%. Thanks to EFC Van Gaal will get another season because they will surely go on to lift the cup.

William Kenwright, you are a disgrace to the club you supposedly support. Your 'what a manager" quote was you putting two fingers up to the real supporters of this club.

Well I know you personally don't read this site, however there are many real supporters who do, and they deserve more respect.

You and the board are useless. Sure, ignore what we as fans feel and see, keep your idiot manager for another season and you will go down in history as the man who took Everton FC down, not Martinez, because You have the power to make changes

Mark Edge
204 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:54:28
A customer came into work yesterday who worked for EFC Development. When asked the question about Roberto's future, his reply was we needed a win out of next two games, also that he had lost dressing room.
James Marshall
205 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:56:33
John @150

The point here about Martinez is not about last night – there is a wider issue of the way the team has played all season. He's full of nonsensical superlatives and moronic rhetoric at all times and we've all had enough.

The team is sent out in his image, and they cannot, and will not ever be able to defend under this manager. We're wide open without the ball, and sometimes toothless with it. Admittedly we also score a lot of goals, but that's only half the deal when you're a football manager.

He has gone on record as saying he's not interested in clean sheets, and was incredibly satisfied with a draw away to Palace.

The man has made a rod for his own back, and though last night is indicative of his reign, it is not the real reason why the entire fanbase, bar a small few, have had enough of him.

I would suggest he's even more despised than Mike Walker, and that's impressive.

Last night's game was officially, and statistically the most one-sided Premier League game of the season, and one of the most lopsided of all time. They had around 35 shots, we had 3. We touched the ball THREE times in their area. Unacceptable.

There is no reason to keep Martinez on the books – he'll never be a top-class manager, though he would make a very good scout in my view (aside from Niasse).

His backroom staff are useless as well – and I can't wait for them all to disappear.

Les Martin
206 Posted 21/04/2016 at 13:59:54
Enough is enough, Jon Woods, Director and Bill's right-hand man, obviously thought so and apparently left at 3-0.

Looks like Martinez may have little support from anywhere soon?

Michael Penley
207 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:06:00
Nev Southall thinks we'll win on Saturday. I think he's crazier than Martinez.
Paul Jones
208 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:10:46
Phil McNulty has put the knife into Martinez and his unhinged player and game assessments on the BBC site (Link).

Everyone can see he's a joke in the making – time for Kenwright to deliver a punch line.

Jamie Crowley
209 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:16:52
It's 9:15 a.m. here in the States.

First thing I did upon waking for my day was jump online and troll the Internet for news of a sacking.

The sound of crickets in the night was all there was...

They should not be waiting for the FA Cup semi. Anyone with a modicum of pride would act now.

Even with a win on the weekend, hell even with a trophy, the damage is just too great.

Why wait? Someone try to pen an argument why waiting is the right thing to do?

Bill Gall
210 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:20:40
John (#150) – re your statement of "He has significantly improved the quality of the squad." How many of the Everton players do you think could be an automatic choice in either Liverpool's or Tottenham's team?

These are the teams we are, and used to be, challenging in the league; instead, we are now classed with the likes of Watford and Sunderland.

There are lots of supporters who keep on saying give him a chance and bring up some reasons for it, but I am sorry the bad points are now outweighing the good points by a large margin.

Every manager has good points and bad points but in a result sports that have statistics that do not lie, when you are unable to improve your performances over 2 seasons and can not see any way to improve it over the philosophy you firmly believe in, there is only one way to put it, and that is you are a failure.

Football is one of the most rapidly changing sports in both tactics and players/ and what was successful last season may not work the next, and burying your head in the sand will not bring you success only failure. "If you live by the sword, you die by the sword."

Sean Patton
211 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:21:28
When Martinez goes there should be at least half a dozen of those players going with him there is no way the manager should get all the grief for that debacle what a spineless shower they are are epitomised by John Stones.

How can he claim to have stomach cramps after that gutless showing?

Ben Attwood
212 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:24:57
Similarly, I am in the US and have just checked Sky Sports News.

So disappointed to see that he has not gone.

It looks like he will still be in charge for the semi. Cue more embarrassment.

Weekend ruined already. We are supposed to be looking forward to Wembley. Not now.

Jamie Crowley
213 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:26:50
Sean -

Stones leaving the game was just diabolical.

He has to go now. Has to.

As does.... Argh!... Lukaku.

That'll be probably 75 million a new gaffer can invest in his vision and his squad.

It's time to grab the liquid Drano and clean the turd out of the pipe.

There's no other way forward in my opinion.

Jimmi James
214 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:31:15
Tom #30, None of those names you mentioned will come here, we just cant attract those types of manager and thats sad but also something we are going to have to get used to. If and when RM goes then we will see the names linked to the job. Have the bookies got a list yet of favourites for the job if RM goes?
Keith Burke
215 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:31:24
All I can say is that this team has run its course... and did so two years ago.
Ian Brandes
216 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:32:49
How anyone can defend this incompetent is beyond me ? Liverpool , even with Klopp, are an average team at best, but they slaughtered us, and it could have been more.

We need to give him the boot asap. I always want us to win, but it would craw me to see this delusional dunderhead lift the FA Cup as our manager.

I could only compare it to the joy I felt when Big Joe's team pulled off a shock win so many years ago, the more so because I won a lot of cash because of a bet I placed early in the season.

Unlike Joe, who would be a great short term fix for semi-final ,and would apparently step in , if asked, because he is a true blue, this Catalan con-man is destroying our club, our players, and even our fan base.

Come on, Mr Moshiri, the value of your investment is plummeting, wield the axe now.


Sean Patton
217 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:33:56
It's too late, Jamie. A new guy wont make much difference between now and Saturday especially with the injuries mounting up we just have to sit there and take it no doubt more humilation this time in front of a tv audience of millions awaits.
Brian Harrison
218 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:38:03
Apparently John Woods walked out after an hour when it was 3-0. Neither Kenwright or Moshiri was there although he did have his representitive there. According to the Echo reporter Moshiris representative looked shocked at the final whistle.

The Echo are saying that their understanding is that RM is safe till after the cup semi final. This just shows that we are no longer a top club as any chairman worth his salt or major shareholder or both would have sacked him by now. Or is Moshiri are new Robert Earl another friend of BK but not interested in the football. Or maybe he is just here as an asset stripper, sell Lukaku and Stones and maybe Barkley.

Because if he genuinely cared about his club he would be telling BK to sack RM just like Abramovich instructs Bruce Buck to do the sacking at Chelsea.
Ian Brandes
219 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:38:09
And, while I am at it, perhaps the football authorities should look closely at the Niasse transfer. It reeks to high heaven like lots of things at this club under Roberto Martinez.
Jamie Crowley
220 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:38:09
Sean -

Sometimes acting on principle, despite knowing it's a futile cause, is the right thing to do...

Gavin Johnson
221 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:38:21
If BK had anything about him he would put his loyalty with the fans over Martinez. It will be a collective weight off our shoulders if he goes now. He's lost the dressing room so why can't a member of our back room staff outside of the Martinez clique take the reigns. I think the players will be relieved and be able play with some freedom and not have to worry of keeping Martinez around by winning. Because I think that has to be a factor swirling around the back of their minds.

Instead BK wants to be vindicated for making that stupid comment - 'what a manager' in the hope we do a Roy of the Rovers and win. If we get embarrassed on Saturday this f*ck up will go alongside the litany of disasters from NTL, Kings Dock and Fortress overseen by boys pen Billy. SACK HIM NOW BILL..!!

Jim Lloyd
222 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:47:52
I think (and sincerely hope!!!) that we will bring in the best manager available to us. We'll all have ideas but as long as the man in charge is respected in the game as a top quality manager, should be ok with all of us.

Hurt? Bloody right, especially those who went over to Anfield to support the lads, we all are.

It's the manager's job to sort out who we will keep and who will go. It looks like Lukaku wants to go to higher things, then the manager will probably view him as not a good asset for us. The others though, Well. I think it'd be best to let the new manager (if Monsewer Kenwright actually doesn't believe Roberto is the greatest after all) sort through our players, test them and then decide who he wants and who he doesn't.

Stones, Barkley, to me, are both lacking in a number of areas in the roles they play in. A manager should have identified those areas and worked with the kids on em.

Ross Barkley seems to be lost at times and the play just goes past and around him. He seems to have little idea of tackling and the need to harry (a la Steven Gerrard, Peter Reid, Bracers)

John Stones makes a lot of unforced errors that Martinez seems to be willing to allow him overcome in his own time, Gerry Deulefeu has not developed as he might well be able to under another manager.

So, those who want to go, if that includes Stonesy, then let them go but lets leave it to a new manager to decide if he can do something with a talented but flawed group of young players.

Jason Broome
224 Posted 21/04/2016 at 14:51:52
As always another great and measured article Lyndon.

Verdict - As bad as any Villa side this season!

Relegation battles are won or lost in the mind. What I saw last night was a Championship performance from a side that gave up prior to arrival.

What a cancer he has become on this team. Not even an apology from them. We have tough times ahead.

Anto Byrne
225 Posted 21/04/2016 at 15:07:25
Bill Kenwright took a gamble on Martinez and the first season brought a lot of optimism, we played with a bit of flair and had a solid no prisoners defence but when the going got tough we evaporated to finish 5th.

Seriously we were contenders for 4th and yet from that point on we have nosedived into oblivion. The players don't look fit or organised and this keep ball in your own half and the slow paced indecisive football was present last season until the crowd got on their backs and they started to play.

The third season has seen a continuation of the theme, a manager who has no other plan but to keep the ball and score goals from open play only.

I was reading about Beckham spending hours perfecting free kicks, perfectly weighted passes swinging away from the defenders among other things. News from finch farm is our players don't bother with that.

Corners. What's the deal there? Is there any reason why the ball can't go to the back post and clear the defender? There is so much wrong with how we play and far too much reliance on a centre forward expected to ply his trade against 4 or 5 defenders and then create his own chances. It's supposed to be a team game and everyone is accountable for their job in the team but if they don't know what their job is or when to change things around. It used to be the captain that would either force the issue or put up the shutters, chasten players or cajole them but it don't happen. The whole culture of the club is toxic. The last straw was for a senior player to be made to apologise for saying the team lacked chemistry, even if the manager was unhappy about it he should have dealt with it behind closed doors.

Joe Clitherow
226 Posted 21/04/2016 at 15:09:09
Sean 217

Sorry I disagree, simply because ANY new guy would not be Martinez, who will detract from our performance on Saturday and wouldn't have the smell of a serial loser around him.

Anyone coming in would not have to do anything to boost the squad except to not be Roberto Martinez, Graeme Jones or Dennis Lawrence. Martinez is not the only one with an FA Cup win at the Club. Unsworth and Royle even as a purely figurehead player/manager combo as caretakers would be a good choice for Saturday in my opinion. I can't see them standing silently on the touchline arms folded all game.

Keith Harrison
227 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:48:18
Roberto will still be here for the semi. If the semi is close, either way, he will remain in charge, at the very least until the end of the season. If we get battered like last night, he will walk away, having been given the hard word already.
That's the info I have received from a normally very reliable source, which I fervently hope is not true, as I would replace Roberto today.
Only time will tell.
Tony Hill
228 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:54:41
I think the key point is that next season for us starts now. The position with Martinez is irredeemable but if we're not very careful we are going to undermine the chances of any new manager turning things around.

Time is against us because of the summer tournament and because of the likelihood that at least two of our main players will leave. Failure to act now could well mean that even a talented replacement manager will struggle to re-organise in time. This league is brutal and if we enter 2016-17 while trying to bed in a new man in charge and new players then I fear for us.

I believe it is not an exaggeration to say that this period will determine our whole future as a top level club. Get it wrong and we could easily become another Leeds, Birmingham, Notts Forest and so on. I think we always have this worry at the back of our minds but it's a major risk in the present dire circumstances.

That's what's at stake.

James Stewart
229 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:55:09
Great article Lyndon, Keith you may well be right but I doubt your source is close to Moshiri no one seems to know what that guy thinks.

I agree with you though he should have been sacked this morning. That lot sacked Rogers after a draw with us and we get battered 4-0 and still nothing. No self respect as a club, disgusting. We won't get hammered by United but it will be a comfortable win for them, surely that will be enough for us to wake up and get rid.

Ray Robinson
230 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:57:16
Did ToffeeWeb crash earlier under the sheer weight of protests? Anyway, to summarise something I tried to post earlier, Martinez's worst legacy for me will be that he has managed to turn the crowd against the players. By heaping hyperbolic praise, he has led some of them to believe that they are the finished article. Lukaku believes he deserves better and has stopped trying, Stones has become one cocky bugger and Deulofeu has remained unfit and ineffective. Barkley, exceptionally, looks under-confident. Either way, under or over-confident, it is up to the manager to put them right. Too many of them lack hunger and fight. Getting rid of Martinez will be the first step but the problem goes deeper than that now. Any new manager will have to rid the club of the lethargy and apathy that now resides. In the words of the Orange Juice song, "Rip it up and start again".
Matthew Ulm
231 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:58:11
It seems that fans are on the same page now: no more anger, simply apathy. And given how this season has progressed what's the point in even getting yourself worked up to anger anymore?

However, apathy has gotten more managers sacked than anger. Let's hope this is true for Martinez.

John Steadman
232 Posted 21/04/2016 at 16:58:54
One outstanding season, and Two dismal boring seasons.
The board have to act.
The man is a joke, as I said a few weeks ago, we are a glorified Wigan with this mug in charge.
Christy Ring
233 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:01:02
How could Moshiri, (I don't mind Kenwright, because he's into pantomime), after watching us being humiliated last night, allow Martinez pick the team for Saturday's FA cup semi-final. What other club would tolerate this???.
Colin Malone
234 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:04:08
Imagine Martin O'Neill with this totally unfit team. You would have seen a slimmer and faster Ross Barkley, a fitter Deulofeu.

Most of all, you would have seen some fucking passion!
Trevor Peers
235 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:11:16
Kieth@227 I'm afraid it's certain we will get battered in the semi final, so I only hope your right and that will be the the end of Roberto.

We have too many injuries now, plus the suspension of Mori, it would be a miracle if we didn't take another beating.

Genuinely feel for anyone who has to go to Wembley and suffer, but that's my honest opinion.

Keith Harrison
237 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:11:39
James 229. Not Moshiri, who I am told is definitely now in charge. Don't want to say too much more mate.
As someone pointed out earlier, all this angst, and melting the ToffeeWeb servers will count for nothing. Reasoned, Raesonable letters of protest need to be sent to the board members, not us keyboard warriors wallowing in our self pity, and saying this can't go on.

Unless somebody does something, it WILL go on. There were some e mail addresses floating about last night for BK and Robert Elstone. Hunt them out, use them - wisely - and let the board know exactly where the fans stand. In a reasonable manner please, I'm sure you wouldn't be kindly disposed to a cyber warrior writing to you with the opening gambit "When you gonna sack Martinez you c*nt?"

Do it the Everton way, with dignity and grace.
Nick Page
238 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:12:29
I remember a quote from Bullshit Bob just after he took over. The beaut said the players were now fitter running with the ball because that's what you should practice. Forget the fxcking fact that players spend most of the time on the pitch running about WITHOUT a bloody ball. The man is a menace and has mentally ruined half this squad. They'll need six months in rehab just to get back to normal.
Alan Bodell
239 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:14:24
The clown is contracted until June 2019 so he wont walk , costing us a load but money well spent and god help the next club that suffers his total bollocks - fuck off, just fuck off.
Gordon Crawford
241 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:22:55
Rumours are getting stronger that OFM is favourite to replace Roberto. I don't think I could watch another game if Moyes came back. Yes he would be organised and a better option that Roberto. But I don't want anymore losers at our club. We need a successful manager, with a history of working with big teams.
Jimmi James
242 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:23:53
Keith #227. I hope your source is more reliable than mine because mine reckons he will be here at the start of next season, hope mine is wrong
Wayne McNee
243 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:26:48
As well as getting rid of RM, a very clear message should be sent. None of this "He was a gentleman but the task proved too much" or the sort of bollocks that was said when DM screwed us over ( let's not forget he did ) and left.
We're not looking to fill a PE teachers vacancy here! "EFC announce the departure of Roberto Martinez. We thank him for his efforts but these do not match the standard of this great club... See ya!"
No fuckin BK getting rolled out and being all emotional. FFS
Colin Glassar
244 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:35:37
I find it quite outstanding that they haven't even bothered to call a pretend "emergency meeting" to at least try and placate the fan base by appearing to take last night seriously.

Is it just another day at FF? Watching videos of the game over tea and muffins? This club of ours needs a fucking rocket up its arse ASAP!!!

Brian Denton
245 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:40:05
Thought I'd have a look at the League Table just to put the relegation thing to bed, for this season at least. Because we have a vastly superior goal difference to Barcodes, Norwich and Sunderland, the magic total as of today is 43 points. We have 41 points, but such are the fixtures that a home draw with Norwich will see us home and dry, even assuming they beat Man U and Arsenal before playing us. Happy days!
Patrick Murphy
246 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:42:00
Last nights squad must be one of the most expensive Everton squads to ever have represented the club in a Derby at the other place and for the £100m+ that they cost the club in transfer fees, plus all of the money they have earned in wages they still couldn't be bothered to harry, chase, tackle etc.
Lennon (4.5)
Barkely (0)
Lukaku (25)
Pienaar (4.5)
Niasse (13.5)
Deulofeu (4.2)

The players of course should be ashamed of themselves but it is the manager who should be able to get such an expensive squad of players to do the bear minimum and last night it looked as if he achieved just that.

What the owners and directors see in the manager only they know, as to most interested observers there is nothing left for him to offer the club, he appears to be bereft of ideas and lacks the necessary motivational skills that the current situation requires.

The Chairman or somebody at the club should make it known to the fans that they will stand by their man or tell us that they will review the situation at the end of the season, because having no real clarity aside from the sound bite "What A Manager" has caused the issue to spiral out of control, the fans are uncertain, the players are uncertain and the manager is uncertain and that after years of stability is not the Everton way is it?

Gordon Crawford
247 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:49:23
Colin mate, sadly the club don't really care about us. Time and time again we've all heard it said from Bill and others "it's all about the fans." What a load of garbage. The man should be sacked right away.

A black hole has opened up around Everton and we are getting sucked in more and more everyday. He should not be here for Saturday's match, but sadly he will be.
Brendan McLaughlin
248 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:54:31
Sky bet are offering 9/4 for Martinez to be here at the beginning of next season and 1/3 for him to be gone...

I think I'll stick £50 on him to be here, at least then I can seriously drown my sorrows.

Will Firstbrook
249 Posted 21/04/2016 at 17:58:50
Notwithstanding the horror that unfolded yesterday, by all accounts it appears Bill has somehow managed to convince the others that his man has earned his shot for the weekend. My guess is that "promise" was made some time ago. So it's sh!t or bust, then? Quite astonishing the so-called leaders of the Club are entertaining this with a chance, however remote, to advance to a Cup final at stake.

As for Mr. Stones, while we've all seen the "official" explanation for his removal yesterday, I remain unconvinced. To me, that looked like a player unable to cope with the moment and taking the easy way out. No doubt about his ability and potential but seems to be seriously lacking in mental toughness and possibly character. Martinez hasn't done the lad any favors to be sure, but there is absolutely no excuse for quitting - especially in a derby!! For the right offer, I would move him along sharpish.

Dark days

Colin Hughes
250 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:06:53
Talking of odds, we are best price 200/1 to win the title next season whilst Leicester are just 40/1 and the shite, who I think will be contenders next season are just 10/1.
Ian Brandes
252 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:14:46
It is truly astonishing that he has not been sacked today. There was obviously an agreement between BK and Mr M hat Kenwright's 'What A Manager' would be given until the end, or nearly the end of the season.

No regard for the fans then, or even the best interests of the club.

Reckon the Yanks would have got shut by now if they had been successful.

Very depressing, now worried about life under Moshiri.

Brian Denton
253 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:15:02
Colin, that's a good price on the shite! Fill your boots (I'm not a betting man, or I would)
Thomas Surgenor
254 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:20:54
While it's not in our nature to sack managers, I can't help but log on here each hour praying for the headline we all want!

What better time to do it? A sacking can often have a positive effect for the next few games. Teams normally go on a 2/3 match run which would be perfect for us at this time.

Give Unsi the job till the end of a season, reward him for what seems to be a decent job with the U21s.

Colin Glassar
255 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:31:48
Thomas, knowing Everton as we do they will probably sack him on Saturday morning. What a shambolic state of affairs.
Jay Woods
256 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:33:48
Thomas Surgenor - I am the same. I saw the TW site was not working for a few minutes this afternoon and was getting all excited that maybe it was because of the announcement of Martinez's demise (as manager, that is)... Sadly, though, the wait goes on.
Keith Harrison
257 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:48:18
Jimmi, he is usually near the mark mate. I'm almost tempted to ask you if you go where the music is playing, but I can't even be arsed to joke today. That's how low I am.

As for Stones, to be fair, didn't everyone have to wait for him at half-time? I bet he had what we call the 'Wildshites'. Even so, whenever I have had squitters, I never got an overwhelming urge to pass to a red shirt. Maybe wipe meself on one.
Phil Walling
258 Posted 21/04/2016 at 18:51:20
To think, if Everton were to win the FA Cup, this clown would go down in history !

But much as it hurts, I do want us to make progress on Saturday for the sake of the thousands of Evertonians who have spent good money in the cause of their club.

I now read that neither Kenwright nor his investor bothered to make the trip so no embarrassment for them, then. Woods obviously left early to miss the traffic !

No news today and I suspect we are stuck with the bugger for a while yet !

Will Firstbrook
259 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:01:32
@Keith 257 - maybe the moment induced the condition?!

I think most of us were having a difficult time yesterday keeping everything down and in watching that spectacle unfold!

Peter McCann
260 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:05:52
Next appointment will tell you wher the club is going. Big appointees we are spending money. Lukewarm appointment no money to spend and going nowhere fast.

Please think big !

Paul Olsen
261 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:15:32
No indication of anything out of the ordinary going on at the club? Mori apologizing(rightly so) and Stones spouting the usual piss from the players.

They are actually going to let him stay on? I can´t even begin to describe how that makes me feel.

Simon Hermansen
262 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:17:15
If BK doesn't shift Martinez before the semi, and get Dunc and/or Joe on the players cases before the game, then it would rank as bad as anything our luvvie chairman had ever done (and that's saying a lot).

Apart from the Chelses win it was an easy passage to the semi but I bet BK Is thinking ... well, he got us here, let him have s crack at it.

In effect that would be throwing away our only chance at some joy this year. Even if we go out but at least have a go id be happy but, if Martinez leads them out, we are beaten before it kicks off.

Please plese BK have some balls, and show that you really understand this club and its fans, and give us at least a shot at beating Utd by removing the clown now.
Sid Logan
263 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:29:15
Lyndon, an eloquent voicing of supporter’s views at what is probably one of the lowest point in our recent history.

Martinez is undoubtably the problem but we can't ignore the other leading villain of the piece for my money: Bill Kenwright.The contrast last night between the two teams couldn't have been more marked and that in itself is a huge pointer as to why we've ended up in this absolutely shambolic fucking mess!

One club has a board that at least takes some notice of its supporters while the other (our team) has a board which does its level best to ignore supporters for as long as it can get away with it. Additionally under Kenwright the board has not been above taking steps to silence dissatisfied supporters.

Everton's Board despite the two pretty disastrous years under Martinez still presides over a decidedly undemocratic regime. In an age were supporters contribute to their clubs more than they ever did either through gate money (although this is apparently needed less by clubs than ever before) and also through their subscriptions to to Sky and BT etc supporters remain a pretty disenfranchised bunch. This is never more evident when after a steadily growing discontent with the manager (or maybe because of it) Kenwright, makes one of his rare but predicable appearances after the Chelsea game, to effective give two fingers to the fans with his "what a manager" quote. How can a chairman who professes to be ‘one of us’ be so out of touch with the fans?

Brendan Rogers, with a better record than Martinez, was rightly give the heave-ho by their board when the the fans' discontent began to grow louder. The Liverpool board then select a manager with a proven track record. Contrast that with the way Bill Kenwright operates. Apparently his rule of thumb is to only appoint a manager who works within a 50 mile radius of Goodison Park. Far less effort involved. Despite his assertions to the contrary I don't believe, for one minute, that he interviewed anyone else for the Everton job when he selected Martinez. Somebody made a suggestion (possibly Moyes) and I reckon he jumped at the chance to take the easy path.

He has turned Everton Football Club in to a hobby for his personal enjoyment. Selecting Managers who indulge him and with whom he can enjoy endless footballing chats. It seems to me that some time ago he realised he had little chance of ever presiding over a team intent on winning trophies so he decided to turn match days in to some sort of theatre event where winning was not quite so important.

Timelines, murals,half time kick abouts, Everton in the community were all part of the package and all the stress and hassle involved with driving for trophies would become far less central to our raison d’etre. Our club motto could become ‘doing it in the community but never on the pitch’. I'm not in anyway knocking what the club do in the community and these have a place in a club that's successful but at the moment they look remarkable like diversionary tactics.

We have quite simply morphed in to an unprofessional outfit that has forgotten what it's main aim is. The partners in this doomed project Bill Kenwright and Roberto Martinez is a marriage made in heaven. Two bullshitters inexorably drawn to each other and able to talk endless football related shite, whether in front of the camera or not. However never expect either of them to deliver anything which gets close to what supporters desire most.

I contend that the mess we're in lies firmly at the feet of Kenwright and Martinez is simply his emissary on the pitch.However it must be said there is just a faint glimmer of hope and it may be that Kenwright has at long last done the right thing (perhaps the only thing) for the supporters. That hope is in the wooing of Moshiri. We have to hope that Mr Moshiri will now realise it's time (particularly after last night’s unbelievable capitulation) for him to take proper control and to do it immediately.

It’s naïve to expect a fully democratic system to operate at our club but I do expect them to listen to the supporters particularly when their dissatisfaction grows, as it now has, to a crescendo.

I am now utterly convinced by the point made by Lyndon's point that he should go now before the semi and a management team under Joe Royle should take over. This for me is the best chance we have of preventing our trip to Wembley from being a repeat of last night's fiasco.

Is anyone out there listening? Probably not.

David Barks
264 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:34:56
After the first derby many of us were disgusted by the lack of passion that was on display. Many of us had wanted Martinez replaced during the summer, but after the derby many more were shouting for him to go while there was still plenty of time to make something of this season.

But nothing happened, with many even saying proudly that Everton doesn't operate like that, and we don't want to be like Spurs or the shite.

Well, the reds did sack their manager. At the time we were above them in the table. Now, they have an outside shot of a champions league spot while we languish at 41 points. They have a quality manager who has been able to spend half a season evaluating the players so he'll know who needs to go in the summer. And of course, they just humiliated us.

So we did nothing because mediocre is totally acceptable at this club now. We have a new majority shareholder but it appears nothing is changing. Failure will be tolerated, as will embarrassment. Not by the reds supporters. Not by Spurs supporters. Not even by West Ham supporters. But here, yeah why not. Last season wasn't enough. The first half of this season wasn't enough. So why do we think that last night will be some watershed moment?

I can see him finishing the season and I could honestly even see him getting the start of next season. It wouldn't surprise me one bit. But God forbid we supporters voice our displeasure with banners or marches or any of that. We're just friendly plucky Everton. Happy to be here, we'll treat everyone nicely and watch others demand success while we just sort of exist.

Frank Crewe
265 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:39:52
Don't want Dunc, Unsworth, Sheedy. Big Joe. Because if any one of them improves our current form there will be a temptation to keep them on into next season.

Everton have to stop appointing nobodies as manager. We need a man with stature and prestige. A proven winner with a record of success behind him. If we going to have money to spend then we need the right man to spend it. Someone who is known across the football world. Someone who can convince big money players to sign for us instead of City, Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea, Spurs. Because considering our current predicament a big name manager is all the hope we have of attracting anybody.

If we have to tolerate this nitwit until the end of the season as long as we get the manager we are all desperate for then so be it.

You know what the really scary part is? 18 years ago Arsenal hammered us 5-0. Tony Adams scored. We were brushed aside. In all the years since then we have made absolutely no progress at all. Just the same also ran rubbish now as we were then.

Andy Meighan
266 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:49:42
Frank, that was 4-0, not 5-0... but you're right – we've stood still.
Gordon Crawford
267 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:51:09
Frank we won't get this manager while Bill still has control. Even though we have a new majority shareholder, Bill still holds all the cards. I think he might have used hypnosis on Farhad.

Sad sad times.

Phil Walling
268 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:52:58
David @264, with nothing happening today it looks very much that my belief that Bill still calls the shots is correct.

But can you really imagine that a man worth £1.25 Billion is so stupid as to allow Martinez to spend his money in the summer transfer fest ?

These conundrums are all very Lerneresque - just look at Villa's league and Cup records last season and what has happened since !

Surely someone has told The Investor the old proverb that if you place your trust in a fool (Kenwright ), he'll end up making you look foolish !

Frank Crewe
269 Posted 21/04/2016 at 19:56:31
Gordon I'm hoping that given last nights disastrous fiasco come the end of the season Bill will finally shuffle off into the blue haze and Moshiri will take full control and finally get Everton moving forward.
Brin Williams
270 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:00:30
I think the question asked was ' Should Martinez go before the semi'

That was the first question the second question being asked is 'who are the 11% - well it's now 13% by the way.'

So let's answer the second question first - don't know who the others are but I am one of the 13%

Next the $64K question - My answer is no - not before but win or lose he should certainly go afterwards and BEFORE the final.

So that's it, where I stand OUT but after the SEMI.

Phil Walling
271 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:08:13
Strange reasoning that, Bryn. Do you really think he can positively influence the team on Saturday or are you secretly hoping for another nail in his coffin ?
Colin Glassar
272 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:09:38
Jesus H....... According to the world famous Bleacher Report, Roberto is facing the sack after asking Mr Moshiri for a new contract!!!
Patrick Murphy
274 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:21:48
Colin (272) Have you got a link to that story?
Sean Randles
275 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:22:21
Bill has 12%, Moshri has 50%. So we all know who is in control. Roberto is manager until Saturday - so stop wasting your time writing meaningless drivel about sacking him . Lets give it all we've got for Saturday and events will take care of themselves after that!
James Carroll
276 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:22:36
The Guardian are at it now. It's taken a while - too long, really - but now every single major newspaper is slating Martinez.
Great article:
Sid Logan
277 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:23:21

How about after the semi or the final - regardless of the outcomes - we request every TW member who would be supportive - to write to Mr Moshiri requesting he replace Martinez before next season.

I'm sure someone could find a suitable (business) address.

He's never going to read them but if several thousand arrived he would be made aware of it and would surely look into why - if he doesn't already know. I don't think we can sit back and rely on providence (or for that matter Bill Kenwright's common sense should that exist) to move things for us!

Jim Bailey
278 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:26:58
David@ 264
Agree totally. It's not the Everton way, we don't think like that, we have the moral high ground etc etc.
Makes me sick to see the state of this club at the moment. Unless as a group(supporters) we take a stand we will deserve nothing else. People on this site saying they are basically ashamed of the way some fans are voicing their anger and frustration again because it's not the Everton way baffles me.

Just what is the Everton way? Happy to make up the numbers, glad to be involved and basically performing like a spare prick at a wedding?.

I can't believe that Martinez is still here, last night was a total capitulation and yet he still waffles crap.

There are undoubtedly many problems that Everton face in the next few weeks, and yet the biggest is the easiest to solve.
Kick the manager into touch NOW.

It won't make any difference for the semi because I don't think we have a prayer. Sad days indeed for this club, absolutely shameful.

Michael Polley
279 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:30:03
Excellent article.He'll be gone by Monday
Steve Woods
280 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:33:58
James Carroll #276, that link doesn't work
it goes to a does not work Guardian site.
Colin Glassar
281 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:34:54
NewsNow Patrick. All sorts of rumours flying around saying he's a gonner but it looks like they'll keep him on until the end of the season. I still think he'll get the boot if united batter us on Saturday.
Patrick Murphy
282 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:37:25
Ian Riley
283 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:38:37
I actually felt sorry for Reberto last night. As much as he has to go. His players let him down last night. The players he has stood by all season have put him out to dry.

Game after game he has told the media how fantastic and phenomenal players are. Last night they brought shame on our club. In all the years watching Everton it was the worst performance I have seen. Everton looked divisions apart.

The only thing Reberto did right last night and all season was be honest. No pundit words or words of comfort. He couldn't defend his team in any form. When your players don't perform for you as a manager. There can only be one outcome. Go gracefully Reberto. Reflect on your mistakes and come back stronger.

Sid Logan
284 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:53:05

that a great link to an eye opening article. I can guarantee Kenwright reads the Guardian so if he was oblivious before he won't be now.

I hope the Moyes connection is not in anyway a possibility. That really would be a retrograde step literally and metaphorically.

Colin Glassar
285 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:53:13
Thanks for the link Patrick, good article that. This has been an annus horribilis (or segundus seasonus horribilis) and I can't wait for it to finish, cup win or not.
Martin Mason
286 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:54:23
The times are changing at Everton. BK has done his job and for Everton it's as important he goes now as well as the manager and his backroom staff. The last three years have left a stink of failure and the place needs a good clean out.
Sid Logan
287 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:55:08
I've got to pack for the trip down tomorrow.

Good luck to all of you whether travelling down or not!

Jack Convery
288 Posted 21/04/2016 at 20:55:27
Great article.

I really think he must go before Saturday. There is a trophy to be won and a place in Europe to be gained - which makes us more appealing t0 players and raises our profile in a positive way - not like last night. Remove him now and give it to a blue - DF, DU or KS or all of them. The lift will be immediate to the club, players and fans. That relief can only be a positive for Saturday. These players are capable of beating the poorest MU team for a generation - they know it, we know it. So get on with BK, bite the bullet and give us hope for Saturday, delay and its all over anyway.

Gallows humour ha got me through today - I heard he was getting the Supervet in, as he's good at fixing back paws. Sorry !

Jim Marray
289 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:00:33

An excellent article and the summary around the loss of confidence of the players in the manager and the manager's own realisation that his position is untenable.

I find the result from last night is no better or worse than I expected, I didn't even bother kicking my wife off the computer to watch it (which I had done last Saturday) purely because I knew we did not stand a chance. Having watched Lennon running round like a headless chicken in too many games lately, the kick the ball out when defending only to see it come right back again and the general lack of qualtiy or guile in our play, I knew we were in for a hiding. At the end of the game when the BBC told me it was all over at 4-0 all I could think was thank God Rush wasn't playing because it could have been worse than the 5-0 back in 82/83.

I never wanted Martinez, I told my family who were keen on him being appointed that his record clearly showed that he could not take a team forward and that his record with Wigan showed continuous decline. Even after he was signed they sang his praises even when I pointed out after the West Ham game the weaknesses in his defensive strategy and that the pedestrian pace of the passing game he is so enamoured of would become even worse when we played teams who pressed up against us and did not allow us time to dwell on the ball.

That first season was an exception to the normality that we are now used too and solely because Martinez had bad tactics from day 1 not just the last two seasons.

It takes a lot of balls to sack a manager two or even one day before an FA cup semi final, the consequences either way would split the board. Poor old Billy Bingham just happened to have a cold blooded chairman on the day, Roberto doesn't have to worry about that with the current board.

When he is sacked, and there is no doubt that he will because the new owner will be very aware that Wigan were relegated (and would have been the following season if they hadn't gone down immediately) after winning the cup, the new owner will be looking very carefully at both what football styles are winning trophies, what are the current managerial weaknesses and what managers are giving the impression that they can fix those weaknesses and apply a winning style. When you have just bought in to a Premier League club you don't want to see the investment collapse within the first 12 months so I imagine that Moshiri is even now working with the headhunters to get a new manager.

As to our Bill Kenwright, this is a man who is ill and lives his life in romantic roles whether in the theatre or on the football pitch. Like many Evertonians, including myself, he harks back the days of the School of Science and the all to brief golden period of the early to mid 80s when we should have gone on to even greater things but for events in a foreign land. His reasons for appointing Martinez are rooted in that romantiscism and there are still far too many Everton fans who want to play beautiful football believing that beautiful football will win you things. The problem is that dream is unreal. We need a manger who can look at what is actually a reasonable squad of player and determine what style of play will actually win games, beautiful football be damned. Even the School of Science had hard nosed utility players who provided the defensive and tackling services that you need to allow the likes of Alex Young to do his thing. And grinding out that awful 0-0 draw or 1-0 win that takes you that step closer to the title or the cup is something that every team has to do at some point in the season.

For me I wish Kloppp had a competitive twin but I will make do with a manager who realises that modern football is fast and that the ability to score from three passes as well 33 is vital.

John Grills
290 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:00:55
As always a good, concise article that gets right to the point Lyndon. I never thought I'd say this, but under Moyes, despite how often we all moaned about him and his tactics, we were top eight in 9 out of 11 seasons. Just goes to show how far Martinez has regressed the club.

It also makes a mockery of this repeated statement that this is the best Everton team in ages. I agree I cant remember such a disjointed, dispirited team. As you say the point has been reached when the players no longer believe in the manager and will no longer perform for him.

It's exactly like Chelsea earlier in the season (though sadly without the success that preceded in their case!) Everton are sadly not a club who act quickly. Roberto will have another chance in the semi final to redeem himself. Though, for me, he dosent deserve it!
Max Murphy
291 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:05:03
Good article Lyndon.
My worry is the damage to Everton Football Club may be irreparable, or at least it could be several seasons before we can start acting and playing like a football team again.
I think we're all in agreement that Martinez is the destroyer, but the instigator is the chairman Bill Kenwright. He has allowed this farce to continue far too long. He claims he is a "true blue", yet he is prepared to watch our once great club be humiliated and embarrassed in front of millions. Come Saturday, it will be a world-wide audience that will again witness another gut-wrenching awful display and more humiliation.
Myself and several others on TW could see this happening 18 months ago, and voiced our concern about RM and even called for his sacking then.
We were faced with opposition to our views by other Toffee Webbers, notably Colin Glassar. But even he has finally seen the light - and is vociferous in his criticism of RM. Well done Colin. It's a pity you and others didn't back us 18 months ago, and we could may have got rid of the clown earlier.
Kev Johnson
292 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:19:15
To those who are pondering the journey south this Saturday, I urge you all: Once the blue army is assembled, and our voices raise the roof of Wembley.

We all sing to Our greatest manager Howard Kendell. For we were never on the march with Bobbys army. Mr Kenwright, relieve this man of his duties.
Dave Ganley
293 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:22:43
John #150 I try to respect all opinions, but with yours I suspect that you are just a RS fan trying to be mischievous. I had the same views about Rodgers before you lot quashed those hopes by rightly sacking him.

Sean #217 its not pointless to sack him before the semi, the damage that has been done already, it just can't get any worse so we have absolutely nothing to lose by getting rid before Saturday apart from the lazy attitudes of the players...and lets face it, the sooner we lose those attitudes the better.

I have thought for some time that BK is not and will never be a true Evertonian and his total inaction is just confirming those views. His inability to be in touch with the very people who he tries to identify with, ie the fans, just shows how much he isn't one of us. He is, along with Martinez, slowly killing our club. If no action is taken then the not so slow decline may take years to rectify.

I am sure I am not alone thinking this, but after already buying my season ticket for next season, my dilemma is whether I am actually going to use it as I cannot watch that despicable spineless rubbish any longer. Its just too painful. It is just heartbreaking watching my club, my team capitulate in such a gutless way. No point listing all the catastrophes of the past 2 years as they have been done to death, but as Lyndon in his excellent post writes, enough is enough.

John Cartwright
294 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:24:45
Hmmm I have a thought. How about fans leaving the Bournemouth game on 78 mins. 1878 and all that. RS did something similar over proposed ticket prices
Colin Glassar
295 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:25:19
Really Max? You think that our opinions are taken into consideration by the powers that be at Goodison? Do you honestly think they care what people write on here?

I've admitted I was wrong and I feel no shame in that. I thought the first season was great, the second season understandable to a degree so I was quite prepared to give him till Xmas to prove to everyone he was the right man for the job. Unfortunately, he's failed miserably and it's time to move on.

This isn't the end for Everton, we've been through worse (or just as bad) and we've always survived and we will survive this. It wasn't even the worse derby performance I've witnessed tbh. I bunked into the kop, as a very young, frightened boy, in 1972 to see us destroyed, humiliated and battered. I was also on the kop, equally scared, in '76 when we lost 3-1 and it felt like it was 10-0. 1982 is not even worth mentioning , same as the 'Gerrard Derby' etc...... Too many heartaches and disappointments to mention but we go on.

This embarrassment needs to be turned into something positive and for me that would be seeing the back of BK and his manager, and a new, ambitious team at the helm.

Neil Gribbin
296 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:45:13
Somebody was after the email addresses for BPB and Elstone:


Although I think the email servers have died under the weight of traffic... I sent a couple before and they never delivered.

Brendan McLaughlin
297 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:46:58
Patrick (#282),

Good read... thanks for the link. Interesting that Martinez was so intent on having a pop at Moyes; are there, perhaps, strong rumours circulating within Goodison that we, mere mortals, are unaware of?

Brian Harrison
298 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:48:01
I can only think that at Wembley on Saturday I will have mixed emotions, of course I want the Blues to win but I hope an FA Cup final doesn't mean we start next season with RM in charge. I will be cheering the team on but as for singing "were on the march with Bobbys army", well I am definitely a conscientious objector to that army.
I would also hope that BK and FM don't think backing the team is the same as backing the manager, because nothing could be further from the truth. I know when the other lot wanted shut of Hodgson they chanted Hodgson for England, and their message was clear. Maybe we need a Bobby for Barca chant.
Mike T Jones
299 Posted 21/04/2016 at 21:49:35
Jay Woods #96, fantastic post

We have a self perpetuating inferiority complex. It has to stop.

Start again as a Club and stop benchmarking against others, especially our nearest and dearest. Have our own identity and let our grandchildren reap the rewards; we wont

Iain Latchford
300 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:24:40
There are reports of an emergency board meeting at the Thistle Hotel in Haydock this evening. Apparently Martinez is present as is.....David Moyes.

That's from The Blue Union who say they've had the information from two separate sources.

Les Netherwood
301 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:25:34
The Wembley game this weekend is in the way at the moment, let's get rid of Martinez and Kenwright who has allowed the club to stagnate for years... when will the new owner flex his muscles?

The result at the weekend will be a factor, and after last night how can we expect to get to the cup final... it just gets worse with the idiot in charge. He turns very good players into very poor ones with his tippy-tappy game in our own goal mouth... Let's get shut now!!!

Vince Furnier
302 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:34:40
Hasn't he gone yet? I've been checking back all day, but nothing. It's worse than transfer deadline day :)
John Atkins
303 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:36:10
Anyone else heard the rumour that there's been an emergency board meeting tonight ?

RS mate who keeps tabs on betting forums etc says rumours are rife about a meeting this evening

Get him f*cking sacked !!!!!!!!! Please

Iain Latchford
304 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:40:54
Apparently it's not called the Thistle Hotel anymore. Not sure if that means it's bollocks. Probably is.
Colin Glassar
305 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:41:39
It's just BK and his new bestest mate, Moshiri, having a pint of bitter in The Winslow. Nothing to get excited about, just a quiet drink between two buddies. One telling his tales of the boys pen while the other gently snoozes away.

Why the fuck would OFM be present? Is he Moshiri's new consultant or something?

Jay Woods
306 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:42:26
Iain Latchford - regardless of the veracity of that rumour, it takes me back to an old puerile quip of mine on here a few weeks ago, that the club should employ Martinez as manager for away games and Moyes for home games. But that was before our away form fell to pieces as well...

Mike T Jones - thank you. And yes, I believe we need a day zero approach to fixing the malaise before we do a Villa in the season to come.

Iain Latchford
307 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:47:25
Jay, would Wembley count as an away game? Maybe they could both be there??

Colin I'm guessing Moyes is just standing in the corner staring menacingly, whilst punching one hand with the other (wearing black leather gloves).

Colin Glassar
308 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:54:57
Not a peep on twitter or any other social media about this mysterious meeting. Why would they meet in a pub anyway? Both of them posess swanky offices in London where they can talk till their hearts content away from any snoopers.
David Edwards
309 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:57:01
Excellent article as ever Lyndon. Nothing to add.... Nice to see the national media finally getting the idea that we have not been followers of Martinez for some time (15 months for me, but I applaud those who genuinely saw the danger a few months earlier). Andy Hunter's Guardian article makes some good points - but Phil McNulty's BBC website hatchet job was a joy to read! Let's hope the powers that be are getting the TW view indirectly at least!

So annoyed that Martinez will be involved in the FA Cup by the looks of it. Don't think we have a shout, but if by some real twist of fate we do get through and even claim the trophy - the prospect of a grinning clown looking up as we get presented with the cup might just make me 'gag'! Let's make sure we give the team our full support - but make it clear it has nothing to do with Roberto!

Finally, I'm very concerned about the Moyes rumours. He did a great job initially, over-stayed his welcome and then jumped ship understandably but rather ungraciously (remember the Baines saga?) I wish him good elsewhere - but we need a complete fresh start at the end of this season!

Sondre Haga
310 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:58:16
Bring in Royle. Cleverly, Besic and McCarthy are the new dogs of war. Lennon and Mirallas at the wings, and Romelu up front. I'm dreaming of course, but a drastic change is our only chance of reaching the final.
Iain Latchford
311 Posted 21/04/2016 at 22:59:34
Moyes is now 3/1 with the bookies. Maybe they're having a pint in the hotel too.
Mike T Jones
312 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:06:01
if over 15000 people have voted on ToffeeWeb on the question of whether Martinez should continue as manager, can I ask that more of them contribute to the debate instead of leaving it to the same 100 to 200 names to offer an opinion. Lets have some momentum.
James Flynn
313 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:06:20
"as is.....David Moyes."

Now I appreciate that our current situation leaves few straws left to grasp.

That SOMETHING will happen is unavoidable. Moshiri didn't lay out all those millions to sit and watch someone else run his Club.

But maybe we lay off anything has the word "tweet" in it.

Colin Glassar
314 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:09:09
David Maddock (daily mirror) is saying only a cup win could possibly save Martinez now and even that isn't a cert.

Bill is to stay on for two more years to run the club while Moshiri will take care of the stadium but he's far from convinced that he can trust Martinez with his money. Moshiri will have the final say on Roberto's future not luvvy dovey.

Dennis Stevens
315 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:10:53
This situation is no longer really about Martinez, it's about Moshiri & whether Everton FC at last has the leadership we've been lacking for decades. A continued failure to act would increasingly seem like a dereliction of duty.
Phil Walling
316 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:17:04
Any approach to David Moyes could only occur because Kenwright is still firmly in charge. He and Moshiri may well have 'an understanding' but that would be taking things to far.

Surely we can do better than go back for the future ?

Iain Latchford
317 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:21:33
The odds are moving as we speak. Moyes is now 2/1. Bielsa had dropped from 10/1 to 4/1 in the last half an hour, as has Pellegrini. Is something afoot? Google "next Everton manager" and look on oddschecker for yourselves.
Colin Glassar
318 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:25:14
That ones a non-starter Phil. Moshiri might smile a lot but I doubt he's a mug to let BPB choose the next manager.
Patrick Murphy
319 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:26:30
Iain (317) You wouldn't happen to be a bookie would you? I'm only joking but surely they wouldn't honestly be as short-sighted as to bring Moyes back - heaven forbid.
Iain Latchford
321 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:28:18
I wish I was. I might get some of my money back!

I'm guessing they're just covering their arses, but interesting nonetheless.

Colin Glassar
322 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:28:30
Pellegrini is odds on favourite for the Zenith job but I suppose it depends on what bookies you are looking at. It's also been said that Pellegrini would prefer to stay in England.
Phil Walling
323 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:29:19
You've hurt me, Colin ! You happily believe Dave Maddocks with this story whilst you denigrated me when I told you all !

Of course, our source may be one and the same person !

Colin Glassar
324 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:33:22
Nah Phil, your place as the TW Oracle is secure. Dave Maddock is the only semi-serious journo in the mirror IMO. So I can almost believe BPB will remain as interim chairman for the time being. But, the new manager won't be his choice.

Christy Ring
325 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:42:16
All this talk for years, ' Bill is a true blue ', it totally stinks now. By leaving Martinez in charge after the humiliation last night, it tells me, fuck the fans.
Andrew Heffernan
326 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:52:57
"what a manager"... (shaking head) The biggest bull-shitter, out bull-shited!


Chris Jones [Burton]
327 Posted 21/04/2016 at 23:56:47
Re these 'Thistle' rumours, perhaps its a typically half-arsed 'solution'? Bobby stays at least until the end of the season, with Moyes as temporary defensive coach. This still leaves the latter free to consider his options over the summer.

Just get us someone who understands what he's doing. Three years in the job and RM presides over the worst set of home results in the club's history. That finally confirmed for me the man has to go. There is just no way you can make up for such an awful record, not even by winning a big shiny cup like the one Wigan won. I watched the Latics on Tuesday night - playing Burton Albion in League 1 at the Pirelli.

John Zapa
328 Posted 21/04/2016 at 00:00:14
It's my opinion that if this game was played when it was originally scheduled, we could have seen a very different result. It's unfortunate the game happened so soon after Liverpool got one of their best results in a decade while Everton is going through a rough patch.

I also strongly feel while everyone is blaming Martinez for all the seems wrong at the club, they are letting off the players too lightly for their roles in where the club currently is. The style of play isn't very different from the first season, but the circumstances are. Back then, European football, no cup run, no major injury problems and the squad exceeds expectations, season 2 the squad was not beefed up enough to handle European football, loosing a major goal scoring threat like Fellaini without a proper replacement, injuries hit badly and the squad under performs.

Now we are where we are, injuries have played a role, certain squad members have been held on for a season or 2 too long, two semi final cup runs with a stretched squad and this is where things are. The thing is I am sure many on here would prefer finishing in 16th place with an FA cup win, rather than 8th with little to show for. At the end of the day it's what you win that counts. I would rather not give up on this group while there is a good chance for silverware. I also feel this summer with the departure of a lot of older squad players who have contributed little this season, there will be an excellent opportunity to bring in players more suited to a passing attacking game as seen in Martinez's first season.
Mick Davies
329 Posted 22/04/2016 at 00:05:19
John 328 is this a wind up?
Gordon Crawford
330 Posted 22/04/2016 at 00:26:04
I second that Mick. This has got to be a wind up?
Roberto is like a partner that the players don't want anymore, but they don't have the heart to tell him. So they distance themselves by not showing him the same commitment they once did. That's what's going on at Everton and to be honest I don't blame the players. If it means getting rid of the worst manager I can remember in almost four decades, then that's great.
I want success at Everton. I want a winning mentality. Unfortunately Roberto can't deliver either.
Chris Wilson
331 Posted 22/04/2016 at 00:29:30
Give John Zapa credit; he's consistent. Made another "Roberto isn't as bad as everyone thinks" plea on another thread. An obious family member.
Steve Davies
332 Posted 22/04/2016 at 00:45:31
I third it. Of course it is a wind up. For upwards of 12 months many of us have banging on about the flaws of RM and the pigeons have come home to roost.

The fact the Board have not sacked him before the cup says it all about BK the dreamer and his clueless stewardship. RM should have been sacked today, end of. Put Joe Royle in charge until the end of the season. Give us some hope on Saturday.

As usual Everton do nothing. Except to sell us a load of semi final nonsense souvenirs. I do not want to be reminded of this semi final as under this lunatic we will be mullered. The evidence is staring us in the face.

Now the only thing I have to look forward to is a trip to Wembley with a bunch of sound lads from Kirkby, and having a few bevvies.

The club are letting us spend a fortune. Thanks BK for your years of neglect and please take your flags with you when you walk away into the sunset. I am afraid your soap opera will end shortly when you and your spanish buddy are shown the door.


James Flynn
333 Posted 22/04/2016 at 00:48:50
John (328) - Better you say, "i don't care where we finish. I just want silverware regardless of cost." Likely, "many" a Wigan supporter still say, "We won the Cup with him though." Witch is fair enough. God bless them and Roberto.

Can't imagine anyone beside you and few other Evertonians would accept, "The thing is I am sure many on here would prefer finishing in 16th place with an FA cup win, rather than 8th with little to show for.

16th, eh? Not 17th or 18th? 19th? Even your "16th"
acknowledges Roberto isn't the guy to take us forward.

We all want a win this weekend, John. And a win in the final.

But the way forward under our new ownership can't include Roberto Martinez, FA Cup win or not.

David Barks
335 Posted 22/04/2016 at 01:00:15

Seriously, get lost with that commentary. Injury problems? We've had a full strength side almost all seasons. Our league position is a travesty. A Cup means nothin mg if we're a terrible team. Honestly, Wigan winning it that season while being relegated should tell everyone how meaningless those competitions are in the grand scheme of things.

In modern football it's all about competing at the top of the league and in Europe, that's it. Why he fuck do you think Martinez jumped ship after he won the cup and relegated them? A cup obviously wasn't enough to keep him, McCarthy, Kone and Robles with Wigan, why the hell would it be enough to keep actually talented individuals?

I keep saying it but I want to know, name me which clubs the previous two season would be seen as successful and the manager not be shown the door. Liverpool, City, United, Chelsea, West Ham, Spurs, Arsenal, Southampton? Any of them? No. Even Swansea showed their manager the door. He has absolutely no right to still be employed by Everton.

Dan Davies
336 Posted 22/04/2016 at 01:05:09
To be fair to John #328 he does bring up some fair points. I can see what he's saying.

Yet from my point of view and I could very well be wrong, it is a sugar coated overly optimistic, positive spin on the current situation. I admire you John in your positivity yet I cannot agree sorry.

To call Fellaini, a "major goal scoring threat" is where you lost me I'm sorry. Decent player for us but a makeshift striker in times of need, no more. You talk of injuries, some might say some injuries are caused by players lacking fitness?

It's nice somebody is trying to be positive but you cannot deny the current crap we've put up with for too long isn't down to Martinez. We are slowly but surely being "WIganised".

I've no desire at all for the return of OFM, but only a fool can't see that the longer Martinez has been here, he's just diluted the defensive responsibility and FIGHT of our, what used to be known as "team".

I agree the summer should bring new better quality players to replace our "old guard", but Martinez should not be the man spending the cash.

If I'm wrong on this call me up in the future and shoot me down in flames by all means. If the club has any balls about it whatsoever the current manager needs to go sooner than later. NSNO.

What a Chairman

Andrew Keatley
337 Posted 22/04/2016 at 01:07:58
Agree with Gordon (330); it's like a toxic relationship that needs to be ended. The players have been sleepwalking through the second half of this season; they aren't fit enough, they lack desire, and it feels like they want the manager out. Once this happens it's impossible to stop the rot. No one player cannot do it on his own.

Which brings me to John Stones. I really like Stones. I think he is a special footballer. But he is playing in a side that lacks chemistry and endeavour; he wants to play the ball out, and I think the efforts of the other players have been letting him down. The whole situation at the club has clearly gotten to him - and to everyone else too. Nobody has shown any consistently good form for months. Anyway, I hope he stays and turns it around as I believe he will become a huge success at a team that doesn't have the sorts of problems that we currently have.

I'm also surprised at some of the scorn that has been poured on Funes Mori. He mistimed a tackle. It was nasty. He was shocked to get sent off. He grabbed the badge. While all of that is regrettable now, in the moment he was trying to inject some passion into the game. I wish that some of his team-mates showed similar levels of frustration and commitment.

Martinez has to go. Right now. I really don't think it matters who takes over in the short-term; if the situation is as bad as the performances indicate then the players will get a huge bounce from a new regime - whatever and whoever it is - because it cannot really be any worse than at present.

Finally, well done to all the people who cannot shut up about how they always knew that Martinez was rubbish. Maybe it's just me but I sort of feel it's the wrong time to crow about that. I'm really disappointed he's turned out to be a charlatan because for a time at the beginning I really thought - and hoped - that he might be something special. I've gradually - like a lot of fans - come to discover that he isn't, and it's a bit shit.

Chris Butler
338 Posted 22/04/2016 at 02:18:49
The players don't want to play for him so I have no hope for Saturday, the fans need to make banners asking for his sacking. We need to let Moshiri now that we want him out. Martinez is a loser who took a mid table Wigan side to relegation, with numerous chances to change it. At least under Moyes players put 100% in and there wasn't any dressing room bust ups. Martinez has no passion, he is quite happy to lose he doesn't care. He's destroyed our club and it will take a long time to repair the damage this idiot has done to Everton. He should be sacked before Saturday, he's a disgrace to football, he only cares about himself not the club or the fans.
Bob Parrington
339 Posted 22/04/2016 at 02:22:02
Thanks Lyndon. I travelled over to Goodison from Adelaide a few weeks ago to watch the Arsenal game. As I watched the sorry performance I knew then that Roberto Martinez had to go. It should have happened then. With caretaker management we must have achieved better results since then. He has lost the team, with just about all of the players wondering wtf the future holds. It looks like just about all of the regular first team squad have given up.

On this thread, many have been trying to make comparisons with former managers' times but, in my understanding and having watched the team since the mid-1950s, there has been nothing to compare with this. I have never seen an Everton team actually give up/surrender, throw in the towel.
The CEO should garnish Board approval to remove Roberto from his contract and compensate him according to the provisions of the contract. This will allow Everton to start the recovery process and Roberto to ply his trade elsewhere and maybe successfully in that different environment. The alternative, of course, would be for Roberto to resign immediately after the semi-final, win or lose............ only a miracle will provide a win, I suppose.

Michael Patison
340 Posted 22/04/2016 at 02:24:48
Excellent article distilling everything that needed to be said.

For the first 19 years of my life, I was a football (soccer for Americans like me) non-fan. I knew nothing. I thought, or at least assumed, it was as boring as I remembered it being while playing on a team in grade school that won maybe 4 games in 5 or 6 years. We were dreadful, and it drove me away because I didn't know any better. Fast-forward to my first year at university and I'm convinced to give it a try. Needless to say, I couldn't get enough and would watch anything and anyone.

Come the summer, I watched virtually every WC game. At the end, I had decided who I'd support: Everton (and I'm not ashamed to say it was as much because of TIm Howard's beard as it was because of his saves against Belgium. After that, I watched as much as I could find and read even more about the history of the club since it's much harder to find Everton matches than RM-Barca Copa del Rey finals and ManU matches. I decided I had made not just a good choice, but the right one too.

"Attractive," "attacking," "gutsy," "talented," "young." They were all words I heard used to describe the club, and what it had managed to achieve with considerably less money and notably less prestige within the modern game than bigger clubs like ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal, ManCity, and Liverpool.

And yet in many ways they were the "bigger" club. They were often the "bigger" people, and so were their fans. Maybe fallen on hard times, maybe having to fight for everything given to them, but always giving youth a chance, always going out of their way to help their community, always doing the right thing.

It's strange, really, that I ended up supporting whom I support. I'm an upper-middle class American with political views starkly different from those held by most Toffees. I should support Chelsea, Arsenal, or one of the Mancunians by default. But something stuck. I don't know what. But something. When I visited Goodison one weekend last summer while studying in Denmark for the summer, it was my favorite place I went, including the 3 weeks I spent on the continent later on. I can't wait to return someday to watch a match in person.

But after the success of the 2013/14 season, about which I read a great deal and was able to watch regrettably little, and the even greater future it promised, 2014/15 was, of course, a let down. I, like many, maybe even most, assumed it was just a blip on both the club's and Martinez's radars easily attributable to the tired legs and tired minds with which a European campaign can curse a team lacking experience with playing those extra games. I was convinced we'd come back stronger; I was wrong.

But you'd have thought we would be, right? We didn't lose anybody notable, I thought at the time, and the addition of Cleverley plus Deulofeu and Lennon on fulls were quality moves and showed intent. (Over the course of the season, I'd add Funes Mori's name to that list now too as, over the course of the season and despite his most recent performance, which was truly grotesque, he's been easily our best defender, and I'd argue our second-best player, sometimes even surpassing Lukaku for that title. Maybe that's just me looking for a bright spot in a dismal campaign.) Over the season we've been pretty poor. We flatter to deceive almost 100% of the time. We don't look like we've forgotten how to defend; we look like we've forgotten that we were supposed to be doing much of anything. The passing attack is occasionally inspiring, but three times as often it looks like we've forgotten that the ball goes in the back of the net, not in a constant circle 40 yards away from it.

Simply put, I can count on one hand the number of times we've looked certifiably good, slightly more where we've looked bad, tons where I've nearly fallen asleep, and last night, which was worse than bad.

I arrived at the same conclusion as most now have about Martinez probably in November, and it's all gone downhill since, both in terms of results and what my opinion of him now is. He MUST go. I know this'll sound like the proto-typical American who wants results, results, results, or else he'll give up and move onto the next thing, but I don't how much more of this I can stand before just giving up watching and supporting all together. We're aimless, and, spineless. Worst of all, we're leaderless. I realized recently that we've pretty much been that way since the beginning of December. In the league, we've played 6 more games since then than before (b:a 14: 19). We've won one fewer game than during the first 14 and have loss more than twice as many. This article mentions Barkley, and that's incredibly telling. He has 6 league goals. His last one came against Bournemouth, in the exciting but immensely troubling and frustrating 3-3 draw, on November 28. If that's not convincing I don't know what is.

Even if we win the FA Cup, the cup performances not enough for be to say he should keep his job. The run of fixtures in both competitions has been rather easy (I'd argue the 2nd easiest among the semifinalists, in both competitions). The results have been unconvincing, particularly in the League Cup, and the performances in the league have matched.

With a new owner and the big bucks (and expectations) that come with it,

I got into Everton because I liked what they stood for: hard work, , grassroots support, community involvement, determination. That's not the team I've been suffering through this season. We're leaderless, a team in search of a manager. The trouble is that we're still paying somebody to go play at it every single day. And it's got to change. At first I was wary of firing Bobby before season's end, now I'm 50/50. Anything is better than what we've got right now.

That's not the team I've been watching this season. But it can be.

I know that was extremely long-winded and that it was at the bottom of over 300 comments, so if you've made it here, bravo to you and thank you so much for putting up with the ramblings of a sleep-deprived Texan. Good night, and good luck.

David Ellis
341 Posted 22/04/2016 at 03:46:27
I have been defending Moyes, Martinez and Kenwright relentlessly on these pages for 15 years.

But times up for Roberto. He's had 3 seasons. We're going backwards. He has signed some decent players but he can't get them to perform consistently, he can't get them to defend, they seem unfit and its either dull to watch or absolutely nerve shredding.

I can't watch the team anymore - I don't ever remember feeling like that.

I've seen Bingham and Lee come to the end. And Mike Walker and Walter Smith. If feels the same now. We are in relegation form - we can't continue. FA Cup or no, doesn't matter we need a new man in charge by the beginning of the summer.

Bob Parrington
342 Posted 22/04/2016 at 05:07:56
Sorry for my typo in #339 - please read "garner" not "garnish".
Iain Davies
343 Posted 22/04/2016 at 07:42:36
Whilst Funes Mori was stupid with his "tackle and actions" leaving us with little or no cover for the Semi, I can't believe Stones is physically injured, he simply appeared to implode (bottle it) it appears more a mental block and problem rather than a physical illness and that is very very shocking and leaves me with no confidence over a future at this club

I have said for weeks to my fellow season ticket holders around me that Stones is a holding midfielder that loves to come forward on occasion and not a defender if he's gonna come out of this a better player I can only see that as an option, he requires a back four behind him so when he stumbles as he learns there's another line of defence behind him

Martinez is no tactician and not the man we need at this club

Steve Davies
344 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:03:40
I woke up this morning. He is still there. BK didn't have the bottle to do it.

He is as spineless as the team or may I say bunch of individuals that Martinez has created. Against Utd they will fold at some point, I have precious little evidence to the contrary.


Phil Sammon
345 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:15:31
Still early, Steve 344, these kind of things tend to be announced after 9am.

Maybe with his severance package Martinez could go buy himself a new fucking jacket.

Sick of seeing it in every picture of him for the last 3 years. In fact I'm pretty sure I even recall him playing in it for Swansea.


John Audsley
346 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:16:12
Martinez is a clueless cretin but the players have to take responsibility. If you can't be bothered being up for a derby game then you shouldn't be in football.

Lukaku and Co might think they will be getting moves at the end of the season but it won't be as simple as that as transfer wise we don't roll over.

Martinez should get the sack after Saturday if it goes badly.

He and the players disgraced this great club on Wednesday.....graft like fuck on Saturday and you still have a slight chance.....though you shouldn't.

Keith Harrison
347 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:25:23
United (almost, except John Z) in wanting our manager to go, can we at least be united against United at Wembley and give everything for the boys in the shirts.
The funereal atmosphere that prevails at Goodison 'and makes our players nervous of playing at home' should be replaced by the crescendo of noise when we played United and then Chelsea in 2009.
A prior engagement prevents me attending, but a safe journey and enjoyable weekend to all Blues.
Lets unite behind the Team we love.
Christopher Dover
348 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:29:50
Share your views Steve 344
Look each morning and through the days for the headline that he has gone.

I thought long and hard about renewing my season ticket as did not want to be there when we are relagated.
So keep looking as it HAS to happen the sooner the better so the next chapter can start in the Everton rebuilding.

Colin Glassar
349 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:36:12
John, by all (many) accounts he will be sacked on Saturday unless a miracle happens and we win. That decision has already been made according to a few journos so it's just a case of wait and see now.

Did anyone else see, or hear, the alleged comments made by Cleverley that during the half time warm up (by the subs) Niasse couldn't pass the ball in a straight line? He kept on passing the ball to Niasse and then had to chase the return pass as it was going miles away from him.

Andy Pearson
350 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:38:47
He really should have been sacked yesterday. But what am really afraid of is that If by some stroke of luck we do win tomorrow he will still be around for the final and if we win that.

He will be saying look we've done really well this season and got a place in Europe and the whole thing will just drag on and on. Why can't we be like Ither clubs and say your not good enough... YOU'RE OUT!
Ray Roche
351 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:41:27
Colin, where did you see that about Cleverley and Brett Angel...er..sorry, Niasse?
Brin Williams
352 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:47:57
Phil 'Maybe with his severance package Martinez could go buy himself a new fucking jacket."

Why would he want to buy a new jacket Phil? That is his lucky jacket!!
Christ, do you thinks it's the jacket's fault - perhaps he hasn't twigged!!!

Charles Brewer
354 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:59:17
Today's Times sums it up. Not only has Martinez failed to organise the players on the pitch, he is in the process of destroying two of the best talents of this generation, Stones and Barklay, as the article says they have actually gone a long way backwards under this man.

Any player with a future (so that would be Robles, Oviedo, Galloway, Davies, Connolly, Deulofeu, Lukaku, even Coleman, Baines, Jagielka and Funes Mori plus most of the U21s) will want to get away from this talent destroying idiot.

I've been disgusted with the performances for much of this season, and last as no better, but the wanton destruction of real skill and talent is what finally does it for me.

Phil Roberts
355 Posted 22/04/2016 at 08:59:24
Michael Patison #340.

You embody, once Everton has touched you, you are never the same as said by that little ginger haired genius that was Alan Ball.

Phil Walling
356 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:03:01
36 hours after 'The Shame of Anfield' and absolutely no indication that the end is nigh for Martinez.

Perceived wisdom of the dailies is that defeat tomorrow will trigger the switch but I'm not so sure I want to contemplate that. No true Evertonian will want to come away from Wembley feeling as we all did after the derby so god forbid that happens.

Of course, a defeat might well make it more difficult for BK to defend ' his' man to Moshiri but that assumes there is, or will be, any conflict of opinion between them. Compensation will also be a factor which might affect the timing of dismissal so we may be kept waiting until the bitter end of the season before any decision is made.

Regardless of the ultimate Cup outcome, it will be Bill's pride which will, as ever, take precedence over the best interests of the Club so I think we can stop scouring NewsNow for the time being at least.

Phil Sammon
357 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:12:07
Press conference starting now. I think that would have been chopped if RM was getting canned before the Semi. Massive let down.
Robert Elliott
358 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:13:54
Ray (351) it was said during the Liverpool Echo podcast yesterday. It struck a chord with me because I watched Niasse warming up with Pienaar during half time on Saturday and Pienaar kept having to run after the ball then. It reminded me of me and my 5-year old son at the park. I'm sick of the cheeky little shit moaning at me for not passing the ball straight!

In terms of the wider points about Kenwright, I've always thought the relationship he has with the managers who work for him are a problem. He's become (in his own words) close personal friends with Smith, Moyes and now Martinez and I think that's dangerous, in the same way as a manager shouldn't get too close to his players. Football's a ruthless business and personal feelings shouldn't come into it.

I've recently read Rob Sawyer's excellent book about Catterick and its clear that although he and John Moores had a mutual respect, it never crossed the line into personal friendship and Catterick never felt like he could take his position for granted, and this was a man who brought the club two league titles.

I've long suspected that part of the reason Martinez was attractive to Kenwright was because the relationship Martinez had with Dave Whelan at Wigan was apparently similar to the one Kenwright had with Moyes at Everton.

Matt Traynor
359 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:15:37
Phil #357, press conference is a broadcasting contractual requirement. If they did pull it, or put Graeme Jones up there, then speculation would only go into overdrive.

Clearly there's no way he's getting cut before the Semi. If they were going to do that, they'd have done it in the players' tunnel at Mordor on Wednesday. Lose tomorrow though, particularly if it's a hiding, and I can't see any point in keeping him. The last two home games will be toxic for him and the Board. Rightly so.

He's getting a fair grilling from the hacks though. Usual bullshit excuses of course.

Matt Traynor
360 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:20:23
And the feed just cut out. Thank you to the operators who clearly felt the 327 of us watching had heard enough.

Sounds like Jags will struggle to make it. Baines, Oviedo and Stones as an experimental back 3!

Brent Stephens
361 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:20:25
Roberto "We haven't been getting the results we deserve"!!!!
Ray Roche
362 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:20:30
Thanks Robert, I didn't see or hear about that. Can your five year old play centre half?
Nick Page
363 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:26:32
Brent, did he really just say that?

if he did I'm firing off an email now to tell the fxcking prick exactly what he deserves.


and I know he picks them cos I sometimes get an out of office from his PA

Andrew Ellams
364 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:36:03
It's ironic really that our manager is probably only still in place because we have a semi final at Wembley tomorrow.

I am worried what the player's attitiudes might be if they think he's gone if we lose tomorrow. I'm not convinced some of them are as dedicated to the cause as we are.

Robert Elliott
365 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:37:36
Ray, he probably could, but whenever I've asked him about playing for Everton when he grows up he always says he'd rather be a Power Ranger! I guess it's nice to know he's thinking about his future career choices at a young age.

I've just read the Martinez quote from the press conference about Jagielka's injury situation. It reads "We will treat his feelings rather than the injury and see how that shapes up before that game". Anybody got any idea whatsoever what that actually means?

David Hallwood
366 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:39:01
The various threads post derby must be in excess of 1000 postings and all of them hostile to Martinez; not a neutral or wait and see in sight which is in sharp contrast to OFM which was roughly 60/40 get him out

Even allowing for TW renowned hostility and negativity towards managers it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where RM can continue as manager. FA cup or not.

Shane Corcoran
367 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:40:41
David, I think he should go but I stated in one of those other threads that if he has the ability to raise the team to beat United then he should be left where he is for this season at least.
Ray Roche
368 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:42:27
Robert, "Power Ranger"? What happened to train driver or fireman?

I read Martinez' comments about Jags "Feelings" too. Lord knows what he's on about. You're either fit or you're not.

Andrew Ellams
369 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:44:30
Robert Elliott, sounds like they are trying to convince Jags to play through the injury to me with a little bit of emotional blackmail.
Ken Buckley
370 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:47:32
No spare tickets to be had anywhere so we will have our full contingent there, despite Wednesday, ready to roar the Blues on.

Manager and players need to ensure they put the shifts in and ensure they use us as a true 12th man and a place in the final can still be had.

They should know now what we appreciate so go to it lads. Together we can do it.


Phil Walling
371 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:49:04
Ray 351 and Robert 358, Niasse is a bit 'off thread' here but seeing as you mentioned this 'mystery man', I thought ( in the role of arch conspiracist ) I would put in my two pennuth !

Living as I do, for much of the year in Pafos, Cyprus, I find an increasing number of my neighbours to be Russian emigres. Strangely, the two I have found to share my interest in 'the beautiful game' are both followers of Arsenal's fortunes rather than Abromavich's Chelsea. They have reasons for that, I'm sure !

I've questioned both about their country's player of the year and all I get sounds like 'ABONHNK' and '6PAT' and frenetic laughter.

It couldn't possibly be the case (could it ?) but the nearest translation I can get from their wives is 'Brother ' and' Doppelganger'. Interesting, eh ?

Mike Hughes
372 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:50:09
Ray #368
Re: you're either fit or you're not.
To be fair, Jags could be unfit but be in an incredible moment.

Brent Stephens
373 Posted 22/04/2016 at 09:50:34
Nick #363 - yes, I watched the live feed. Can't make it up and didn't!
John Hughes
374 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:00:38
Roberto one of your old clubs is advertising for a Manager, it's Chester FC, you said you liked it at Chester so apply please! Sorry Chester.
Nick Page
375 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:12:53
Thanks Brent. Message sent.

What a manager

Ray Robinson
376 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:17:41
Maybe Jags is fit but has stomach cramps.
Andrew Lightfoot
377 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:18:35
From the BBC:

Finally, Roberto Martinez is asked whether captain Phil Jagielka is likely to be available for the semi-final having missed recent matches with a hamstring injury.

He said: "Knowing Phil he is desperate to play but we are not going to say no and we are going to [look at] his feelings rather than the injury.

What does that even mean?!?!

Phil Sammon
378 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:34:59
Phil Walling

That was very funny mate. Burst into a yelping laugh in the pub.

Sam Hoare
379 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:45:01
Just saw this quote from Tony Pulis about their defeat last night.

"I’ve managed a lot of games and I think it’s the first game in England I’ve managed on a Thursday night, I’ve done it away in Europe and I might just have got the preparation wrong.

“I’ll be looking at myself and all the staff in respect of the way we did this, in case we have to play on a Thursday night again."

Not suggesting TP as a future candidiate by any means but nice to see a manager who puts his hand up personally and says he got it wrong, hardly seen RM take any personal responsibility at all this season.

Robert Elliott
380 Posted 22/04/2016 at 10:55:45
Ray, I can only hope its because the starting salary and retirement pension rights are apparently more attractive in the Power Rangers! Funnily enough I did tell him this morning that if he signs for Everton he could be managed by a complete space cadet and that did seem to pique his interest!
Derek Thomas
381 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:07:27
Jags 'feelings rather than the Injury'...sounds like Jags isn't as injured as he's cracking on, Martinez suspects this, but can't prove it?

People do get hammy's, especially at this unfit Club eh Seamus?

A groin can go without warning, been there done that, hard luck there Bazza.

I bet it's the last time you have one of those Goodison pies John Stones.

In fact Distin was 'Injured' before we found out the truth if I remember. Howard picked up a handy 'knock' when the pressure got too much. Have I missed anybody out? if so sorry.

Martinez has (alleged) form for this sort of shinanigins...could be an (alleged) case of the biter bit.

Nick Page
382 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:19:51
Derek, wasn't it Martinez who once said, "I don’t believe in soft-tissue injuries. If you get a soft-tissue injury in football, a mistake has been made." And this, "I’ve always been fascinated by different techniques and I look at what the best physios in the world are doing. I love that side of football. Injury prevention. Maximising physical ability."

Obviously it fxcking works then, eh!?

Ernie Baywood
383 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:24:18
In context, he clearly said that Jags isn't fit but wants to play. ie the opposite of what is being inferred above.
Derek Thomas
384 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:29:03
It'll all come out sooner or later Nick, it always does. what else can a disenchanted player do? you can only drop the effort ON the pitch so much, if only for your own pride and to keep the crowd off your back.

So it comes down to not won't play but can't boss...damn those soft tissue injuries, damn them all to hell *sinks to knees, head bowed.

Ray Roche
385 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:33:00
Mike Hughes#372
" Jags could be unfit but be in an incredible moment." Well, if that's the case, it's phenomenal.

There's a lot to be said for a final salary pension......;-)

Gary Carter
386 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:34:38
I'm sure its just "Evertonian paranoia" but Im starting to worry about this Moshiri chap. Considering what hes supposed to be investing, that he owns 49.9% of the club he's worryingly quiet.

I mean, whats actually happened since hes come in apart from a few boardroom moves that seem to have little or no effect or publicity. He's not even come out with the dreaded "vote of confidence" for Martinez.

It all smacks a little bit too much of the same old Everton, silence from the club and little or no important decisions or changes being made, something just doesn't feel right to me! I hope I'm wrong but has Bill sold us his biggest lame duck yet?

Paul Cherrington
387 Posted 22/04/2016 at 11:54:13
Sorry to say this but, if the ONLY thing that will make the board see sense and get rid of this fool is a defeat at the weekend, I won't cry too much if we do lose.

Don't get me wrong: I want us to win, as always... but, if it means this pathetic excuse for a manager hangs on to his job, it will be bittersweet.

John Grills
388 Posted 22/04/2016 at 12:59:09
Robert (#358),

You are absolutely right and have hit the nail on the head. I see Kenwright's problem as being that he dosen't keep his distance from the managers he employs.

When someone becomes your friend, you are naturally more forgiving of them, but it's a mistake for a chairman to do this. At the very least, he should be sitting down with Martinez and spelling it out – 4-0 drubbings are not acceptable; lose again in the semi-final and you are gone.

We can only hope if Moshiri starts spending his own money that he will expect higher standards. It's the only way I can see things at this club changing.

I don't want to see managers fired willy nilly but, like another poster earlier said, other managers like Tony Pulis admit their mistakes and try to learn from them, whereas Martinez continues to live in denial.

Brendan Fox
389 Posted 22/04/2016 at 12:59:46
Jay Woods @ 96 you are so on the money with your sentiments that as a club fanbase Evertonians are so passive it is to our own detriment.

I appreciate lots of Evertonians feel strongly about protests feeling it is not the 'Everton way'. If this is how you feel then please answer this one question:

How else can Evertonians make their feelings known to the board about Martinez position and tenure as manager of the club without protesting?

If we as supporters do nothing expecting the likes of Bill and Co to do the honourable thing we are being disingenuous to ourselves because the boards past form show the board are not in the habit of making changes unless their hand is forced by the will of the fans.

I am not advocating a sea change mentality from the 'Everton way' as this is what makes us unique but sometimes extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary action!

Ray Smith
390 Posted 22/04/2016 at 13:26:31
Brendan 389#

I was at the Southampton game, the silence was deafening!

However, that hasn't prompted any response from on high.

I'm making my own protest by staying away! Never thought I'd do that.

An empty stadium is all I can come up with!!!

Stephen Jones
391 Posted 22/04/2016 at 13:36:40
Mike (340) I got to the end and I applaud you for taking the time and effort to put down how you feel, it really was a very enjoyable read and may I say very eloquently put.

Keep the faith Mike and as we all hope and pray for new manager soon (with the FA Cup in the cupboard or not) major investment and hopefully Moshiri taking over all control and keeping the talent we have for ours and their futures.


Steve Barr
392 Posted 22/04/2016 at 13:41:32
Just reading Martinez's comments on the BBC website where he states that "results have not been good enough since we beat Chelsea in the FA Cup"!

These so called journalists are just not up to the job. Surely the response to that should be "Do you mean results haven't been good enough for the past two seasons"?

Nicholas Ryan
393 Posted 22/04/2016 at 14:17:45
Lyndon, as ever, spot on. Nothing to add.
Patrick Murphy
394 Posted 22/04/2016 at 14:26:51
Of all the people at the club, Phil Jagielka is not the type of person to duck out of a challenge, he may not be fit but he is one player that would risk himself to help the cause. Those people who believe otherwise are being very unfair to the club captain. Whether he should risk himself with his particular injury is a different debate as I'm not sure that a player in such a key position should be risked but Jags is an important member of the team and without Barry - if that is the case - we need him on the park, but it would be a massive gamble.
Gordon Crawford
395 Posted 22/04/2016 at 14:39:24
Phil Jagielka gives a 100% every game he plays in. He might not always have the best games, but he always tries his best.
I hope the three of them can make tomorrow's game. We are going to need them.
Stuart Gray
396 Posted 22/04/2016 at 15:26:00
It seems inevitable to me that Martinez is on his way out. I'm actually probably one of the last people to be turned into thinking he should be sacked, I generally like to give a manager 5 years to put their own stamp on the team. However, it does seem that the dressing room is lost and Martinez is sounding more and more ridiculous with every excuse he makes.

I do actually think that he could end up being a top manager if he learns to have a plan b and adapt his philosophy to suit the opposition.

I also believe that Marytinez's legacy will be much more positive than the team on the pitch. A lot of what he seems to be doing it setting foundations for future generations of players and, whilst I suspect he will never get credit for that, it may well be that our next manager will benefit from these foundations.

But when that axe does finally fall, it is almost certain that some will be calling for Moyes to be reinstated at the helm. I have read reader comments in recent days where people have said "At least Moyes did this"... etc.

I seriously, seriously hope that he isn't in contention. Moyes was the right man at the right time, stayed too long, disrespected our club when he left and, most importantly, he is not a winner.

He has never won anything, he deals in mediocrity and safety rather than instilling belief that we can actually win something. At least Martinez has given us some hope that we might win something, however fleeting that was.

No, when the replacement comes in, for the first time in a long time, I hope the new Manager is someone to inspire. Someone to make other clubs go "They mean business". Someone to attract quality, proven players.

Mourinho – Yes. It won't happen, but yes. Forget the negative he brings, he would for 2 years boost our standing on the world stage and then allow us to attract investors, players etc.

Whoever it is, I hope our new majority shareholder doesn't think small. Doesn't go for steady but goes for proven winners.
Jason Lam
397 Posted 22/04/2016 at 15:53:37
I haven't posted on TW for at least a year but when you read Lyndon wanting him out you know we're truly at a low place.
Danny Lizars
398 Posted 22/04/2016 at 17:51:13
Just seen a quote from bobby bullshit....

'You need to look at the many times when we have turned it around this season. We have had real blows and reacted in a good manner and taken responsibility.

When exactly? MARTINEZ OUT!!!

Tony Williams
399 Posted 22/04/2016 at 21:22:28
If 95% of Evertonians can see the problem staring us in the face and the powers to be can't, what hope has our club got.

Ever Blue,
Ever True,

Tony Abrahams
400 Posted 22/04/2016 at 21:53:04
Derek (#381), that's a bad thing to throw at Jagielka that mate. Is he a captain? I don't think he his. Is he a leader? Not really. But he's the one player in the current squad that I haven't seen shirk a challenge.

I wanted Martinez, out before tomorrow; it hasn't happened. I hope the players wake up tomorrow, and think to themselves, fuck the manager, I might not want to play for him, but I do want to play in the FA CUP final, for Everton next month.

If Jagielka makes it tomorrow, I think it will be the biggest boost we will have had for a long time, but hamstrings are a fucking nightmare because they just don't let you sprint. I pray that Jagielka is fit because he's the one player I don't think we can do without tomorrow.

Richard Leeming-McHale
401 Posted 23/04/2016 at 06:17:42
I did have a dream that he's go today but also in the same dream I won the Tour de France.

I'd much rather the former came true, given a choice.

David Greenwood
402 Posted 23/04/2016 at 08:20:56
I have read a lot of posts recently that seem to indicate there is an upside to us going out the Cup today, in that it will hasten his departure.

Let's be clear, for the avoidance of doubt, and for the hard of thinking.

There is no upside to us going out today. None.

Martinez is gone even if we win the cup. I suspect he's been told that since the events of Wednesday night.

Winning the cup and then bobby gone the week after is an upside, what a week that will be.

Let's do this today.

Peter Barry
403 Posted 23/04/2016 at 08:36:47
"Procrastination is the thief of time' Kenwright
Peter Barry
404 Posted 23/04/2016 at 08:36:47
"Procrastination is the thief of time", Kenwright.

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