Everton clinch Funes from River Plate

Would be a big plus with regards to him settling in, and more importantly, being able to communicate effectively on the pitch!

One thing I will say about Martinez's transfer dealings is, he looks for value if he spends a fee (Lukaku, McCarthy), so I expect this guy is the heir-apparent to Collocini et al for years to come... in which case our investment should be protected.

Hope he is worth it. Come on Roberto sign those two attacking players today!

Sign an Argentinian international and River Plate's best defender for a bit of money and it's "How much??" and even better "a player roundly believed not to be up to it"? Are you going on the beliefs of some TalkSport tosser who gets paid to make things up or do you regularly watch Argentinian football and discuss which younger defenders are "up to it"?

Give the players a chance to kick a ball ffs.

When you say "roundly believed not to be up to it", by whom?

There's only been one vocal commentator consistently putting the boot in on the player to reinforce his original stance that the move was never likely. Who else has claimed to see the player perform enough times to even form an opinion one way or the other?

Either way it will take him time to adapt and we likely won't see the best of him till next season and after.

I'm sure his English is fine.

It could be a day of surprise this one.

He's also our record signing in our history for a Defender, so expectations should be high. Could be a defining signing for Martinez. Let's hope there are a few more to follow today.....

Welcome to Everton fella.

River Plate cleaned up last year. I haven't seen this guy play, but you don't win the Copa Libertarores with a dodgy CB.

I'll reserve judgement. I'm sure there are gems to be signed in South America - Aguero, Mascherano, Vidal, Alexis, Suarez, etc all had to be discovered.

When is the truth about the club's finances going to come out? Very soon, I hope.

All this before anyone has seen him kick a ball for Everton!

With two more signings likely today, the total spend will be near 㿀M - and that's for 8 players. A "good window" by this club's standards, don't you think?

Thanks mate, good to know.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/15134/9968748/ramiro-funes-mori-all-you-need-to-know-about-Everton8217s-new-arrival

Regarding Mori - 10 goals in 108 appearances for River Plate. The new Derek Mountfield?

I'm sorry guys, but I cannot shake off this lingering suspicion that a deal has been done on Stones for silly money. That being the case, RM has hopefully been allowed to earmark at least some of the proceeds for an attacking player.

All speculation, I know, but it's the day for it, isn't it?

That's if he does get a run out this year (?). As a supposed left-sided defender, he is more likely to be cover for Jags or a long-term replacement.

I'm going on multiple comments from multiple sources as alluded to by the term 'roundly believed'.

If you would care to open your browser and insert the terms 'Mori' and 'Everton', you might discover the same opinions.

Now if you just want a row..

Of course I haven't seen the player in person, I refer you once again to my use of the term 'roundly believed'.

Peter, I presume you DO watch a lot of Argentinean football armed, as you are, with the fact that he is River Plate's best defender..

The comment wasn't that he isn't good enough 'before he's kicked a ball' but that it seems a lot of money in light of the reviews, others seem to agree.

I think Ernie (#17) may have answered your question. Perhaps on the left hand side of Phil Jagielka.

I hope so.

What do we really know about South American football? The fact that he has a cap, means nothing. We can all name internationals. That we don't want to see at Everton. FFS, Alcaraz was an international.

I will reserve judgement, but I think that even Martinez would not hand out £9.5 million without an inkling of what he is getting. His big money buys have been okay. Only his bargain basement signings have been poor.

I've just heard that Mori is left-footed. So will he fill in at LB? Just a thought. Now here's hoping that RM and BK have a few surprises in store... 'cause I believe that we are only a few players away from having a good season.

Nice one, kid, that's what I love to hear!

If you would care to open your browser and insert the terms 'Mori' and 'Everton', you might discover the same opinions"

Nah, seen as though there's so many out there, how about you share... oh, let's say just three... from reputable commentators, not some numpty with a blog. I'll even let you throw Tim fucking Vickery in seen as though that's probably all you've got.

You were asked a simple question, to provide some form of back up to your claim that the player has been "roundly" condemned as crap. 'Roundly' implies criticism has come from all quarters and many mouths. Not just some meff who moved to Brazil to teach English, believes himself to be the font of all knowledge on South American football and can't stop banging on about one player he himself doesn't rate. Not just two or three people either. 'Roundly' implies a general consensus.

Why it's easier to come over all fucking flouncing Blakey from Off The Buses say 'do it yourself Butler, I don't have time for this shit', whilst shiftily looking from side to side as a little bead of sweat trickles down from your forehead to your cheek thereby giving the game away, rather than just providing an example of what you were referring to if the criticism is so widespread, I don't know.

Jags is 33 and a right-footed CB playing at left CB to accommodate John Stones at right CB.

I think this is Jag's replacement and that is where he will play, at left CB, when he is up to speed and bedded in.

A fascinating update from Andy Hunter about Everton's signing of Ramiro Funes Mori – if the suggestions prove true, this is a quite mindboggling state of affairs:

It is being suggested that the reason Ramiro Funes Mori's price increased from ٤.25m to ٧.5m was because his River Plate contract entitled him to 50% of any transfer fee and, rather than risk the deal collapsing, Everton decided to pay the extra ١.25m with no central defensive alternatives lined up at this late stage in the window. Also claimed Everton only became aware of Funes Mori's entitlement late last week. Everton have not confirmed or denied the allegation.

Also as Sam says it changes the goalposts entirely on the perception on him at 5M its good value and a risk worth taking but at nearly 10M he is in the same bracket as Evans and Ogbonna so we can directly compare if the manager made the right choice.

Why should you care, its coming out of the clubs pocket not your own.

They have decided it's worth paying ٧.5M for him so let's give the lad a chance.

No pleasing some folk!

Tevez, Mascherano, Alex, Robinho, Diego all had great runs in that comp before making the move to Europe. Hopefully he has a similar impact.

Add to that, Sakho for £20m

When you get headlines of these values, it makes me think we'll only get Lennon and Mori's price will be used as an example of backing the manager.

On the basis I am not writing a dissertation nor giving evidence to my local magistrate I neither am obliged, nor feel compelled, to back up anything I say let alone involve myself in a debate with a person who, judging by the pettiness of their contention and the era of their social references, should really have something better to do than pick arguments on club forums.

By the way it was On The Buses not ’off’ them — small point but something tells me you will appreciate it.

It's pretty simple. If you don't feel compelled to, or simply can't back up anything you say then probably best not to state it in a way that implies your stance is based on the assertions of others.

If you just want to give your own opinion then that's a different matter. Except you didn't. You made claim to there being a 'roundly' accepted belief that the player won't be able to cope in the Premier League and then made mention of 'multiple sources' stating that very fact. How is it petty to enquire who was part of this absolutely massive Mori bad-mouthing posse? Seems to me there's a Wild Bunch of one, whose opinion only holds any sway because he's been bronzing his ball sack out in Brazil for several years.

That you choose to shy away from simply providing any names when asked (with no hidden agenda on my part) who actually said it, tells everybody all they need to know about the alleged abundance of well documented doubts you claim to have based your opinion on.

Oh, and yeah, you're correct, I missed a word out when name checking a sitcom at speed. It should have read 'Blakey off 'On The Buses'. A cardinal error and I do appreciate you bringing it to my attention. However, I am truly aghast at the fact you seemingly have me pegged as some ancient Pterodactyol looking, carrier bag cheeked, arl fucker that looks like they should be introducing Tales From The Crypt. I'm in my thirties you cheeky git! Just have a penchant for canned laughter, grainy camera work, perky conical nipples parked under hideous cardigans and character actors whose idea of getting ready for a close up was shoving their nasal hair back up their snout with a spit covered finger.

I should hope so!

When he heads the ball
and scores a goal
That's a Mori (That's a Mori)

On his debut, Well I can dream.

Mentioned a disastrous South American signing he made for Wigan, Bosseli, a striker who cost £9M and did nothing. Essentially he was saying that Martinez has not learnt from that mistake.

Another Kroldrup?

THE COSTS OF BUYING A FOOTBALL PLAYER FROM ARGENTINA
By Ariel Reck published on 14 July 2015

This blog will briefly examine the charges, taxes, costs and levies typically associated with a football player's transfer from an Argentine to a foreign club, which can – perhaps surprisingly – amount to up to 25.7% of the total transfer price for a foreign club (and can be even more for a domestic team).

This is an important issue because, in the author's experience, foreign clubs often do not consider these inbuilt levies at the beginning of negotiations, maybe because they do not have anything similar domestically. However, almost every South American nation has significant costs and levies on transfer fees, the logic being that the exporting nation charges as much as possible at the time of the transfer because large sums of money are involved and it is potentially the last chance to levy charges and taxes before the player leaves the country for good.

What levies are there in Argentina?
The 25.7% levied on the total transfer price can be approximately disaggregated into the following charges.

The player's share
Firstly, 15% of the transfer price goes to the player pursuant to the national Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) and the "Professional Player's Statute", the federal law 20.160. Article 8 of the CBA (55/2009) provides:1

“The professional player´s contract might be subject, during the term of its validity, to a transfer to another club, with the express consent of the player. In such case, the player shall be entitled to – at least- 15% of the gross amount of the transfer, be it temporary or definitive, and the payment of such percentage shall be responsibility of the transferring club by depositing such amount at the Professional Players´ Union."

Almost every South American federation has a similar percentage assigned for the player in a transfer (it usually ranges from 10% - 20%).2 As a labour right, in Argentina, such percentage cannot be waived by the player in advance (in contrast to other nations, such as Spain, were the percentage can be waived).

Social Security Taxes
7% relates to social security taxes. Pursuant to an agreement reached between the Argentine tax authorities and Argentine clubs more than a decade ago (known as Decree 1212/2003), social security taxes are paid by clubs as a deduction of a percentage of the transfer fees, ticketing income and TV rights revenue. The decree states:3

“These rules will apply for the payment of the social security duties to the social security systems an amount equivalent to 2% [later elevated to 7%] of the total income for ticket revenue of the games disputed by the relevant clubs in every category, plus the transfer of players and the TV rights of the tournaments disputed by these clubs in every category.”

As many clubs are currently in economic difficulties, the income generated by the sale of a player is a convenient way to arrange for the discharge of any debts that they may have with the National Social Security System and suspend ongoing enforcement proceedings. Article 1 of the decree provides:

“A collection and withholding regime is established for the payment of the personal and labor contributions to the regimens established in laws 19.032.... (social security regulations) for professional football players, medical, technical and auxiliary staff in charge of professional football squads in any category and any other employees dependent from the Argentine Football Association and clubs participating in tournaments organized by the said association in first (Primera A), second (Nacional B) and third (Primera B) division, with the Argentine Football Association acting as collection and withholding tax agent.”

So technically, the transfer itself is not taxable in a strict sense; it is a collection and withholding of social security taxes then owing at the time of the transfer.

Fee to the Argentine Football Fédération
There is a 2% fee payable by the club to the Argentine Football Fédération.4 If the transfer is domestic, 2% is payable by each club.

Article 214 (Transfers) of the Argentine Football Federation Regulations states:

“The selling and the buying clubs, to have the transfer authorized, shall fulfill the following requirements: a) Both clubs shall pay at AFA´s treasury an amount equivalent to a 2% of the total amount of the operation. These amounts will be destined to support the expenses of the national team, and a special bank account will be open to that effect.”

There is also a 0.5% fee payable to the Player's Union as agreed between the Union and the Argentine Football Association in 2001.5

Stamp duty
Finally, there is a stamp duty levied on the contract, which ranges from 0.8% to 1.2% depending on the jurisdiction under which the document is signed.

Comment
These levies have a considerable impact in any player transfer. In particular, they make the first payment crucial because, according to the national labor and fiscal rules,6 the taxes and levies must be entirely discharged before the release of the player's International Transfer Certificate (ITC), even if the total payment is agreed in installments. If these contributions are not paid prior to the release of the ITC, the club and the national association are jointly liable for these amounts and can be subject to penalties and sanctions7 including fines up to 100% of the amount at stake and –at least in theory- even 2 to 6 years of prison.

This rule is in clear contradiction with art.9.1.3 of the FIFA RSTP,8 which declares null and void any condition that limits the issuance of the ITC. Clubs have been sanctioned by FIFA in the past for including such clauses in transfer agreements.9 Thus, when agreeing the payment schedule in a transfer, Argentine clubs face the danger of being sanctioned either by FIFA or by the taxation authorities.

The levies also affect the way Argentine clubs negotiate transfers, and especially the payment schedule that they are willing to accept. Although the levies are the responsibility of the selling (Argentine) club, the seller will effectively pass on the costs to the buying club by demanding a “net” transfer amount, and then adding on an additional 27% that the buyer must also bear.

As confirmed by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Genoa Cricket and Football Club SpA v Club Bella Vista,10 the levies are an integral part of the transfer price and therefore count for the purpose of calculating of the solidarity mechanism payable to the clubs that trained the player between the ages of 12 and 23. This represents an additional cost increase.

As to the payment, while for financial and regulatory reasons (i.e. compliance with financial fair play regulations) a buying club will usually be interested in paying the transfer fee in installments, Argentine clubs will generally try to negotiate as much as possible upfront (as they have to pay the levies on the entire transfer value (even if the fee is paid in installments)) at the moment of the ITC release (and the selling club may also need part of the transfer fee to replace the transferred player.

In summary, every club that targets a player from an Argentinean team shall be aware of these regulations in order to assess the real and final costs of the transfer and also to design a payment schedule that fits the needs of the buying but also of the selling club in order to complete the deal.

References
Argentine footballers' Collective Bargaining Agreement, http://infoleg.mecon.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/155000-159999/158453/norma.htm
Brazil, Peru and Bolivia are exceptions to this rule; no such right is established in their regulations. In Argentina the minimum percentage is 15%, in Paraguay 20% for international transfers, in Urugay 20%, Ecuador 15%, Chile 10%, and Colombia 8%.
Decree 1212/2003, http://infoleg.mecon.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/85000-89999/85230/norma.htm
Argentine Football Fédération hompage, http://www.afa.org.ar/index.php?Itemid=238
The rule has proved quite controversial because it was never published but is still is applicable without exception. It started at the end of 2000 as a request from the Players Union to AFA to cover the administrative costs generated by the management of the payment of the 15% that corresponds to the player.
Taxman´s General Resolution 1580/2003 http://www.afip.gov.ar/afip/resol158003.html(especially arts. 5, 8 and 30).
Art.30 of the General Resolution 1580/2003 and further references to law 24.769 http://www.infoleg.gov.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/40000-44999/41379/texact.htmand Genera Resolution 1566/2003 http://www.afip.gov.ar/afip/resol156603.html
ARTICULO 30.- Cuando la Asociación del Fútbol Argentino (AFA) omita efectuar, depositar y/o informar las percepciones y/o retenciones, o realice cualquier otro acto que importe el incumplimiento, total o parcial, de las obligaciones impuestas por esta resolución general y/o por el Decreto Nº 1.212/03, serà pasible de la aplicación de las sanciones e intereses previstos por la Ley N° 11.683, texto ordenado 1998 y sus modificaciones, por la Ley N° 24.769 y, en su caso, por la Resolución General Nº 1.566.

9.1.Players registered at one association may only be registered at a new association once the latter has received an International Transfer Certificate (hereinafter: ITC) from the former association. The ITC shall be issued free of charge without any conditions or time limit. Any provisions to the contrary shall be null and void. The association issuing the ITC shall lodge a copy with FIFA. The administrative procedures for issuing the ITC are contained in Annexe 3, article 8, and Annexe 3a of these regulations.
‘Clubs sanctioned for misuse of FIFA TMS', FIFA.org, 31 January 2013, last viewed 8 July 2015, http://www.fifa.com/governance/news...s-sanctioned-for-misuse-fifa-tms-1998807.html
Genoa Cricket and Football Club SpA v Club Bella Vista CAS 2012/A/2944, http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/CaseLaw/Shared Documents/2944.pdf
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I think he knows a bit about football... possibly more than Tim Vickery.

Comfortable on the ball, looks solid in defence and can certainly smash a free kick in the top corner. He is around 6' 1" so not huge for a defender, but not exactly short. Plus he has a huge leap when heading which, dare I say it, is slightly reminiscent of C. Ronaldo.
Perhaps the biggest indicator is that he's been keeping a very highly rated CB in the Columbian international Balanta out of the team.

I just took a look over at a River Plate fan board that is quite similar to TW and they are either grateful to him for his time there or absolutely fuming that they let him go. The general consensus is that even at £9.5m he was sold too cheaply and they believe they should have got double or even more for him.

As soon as he gets up to speed with the BPL, I think we'll have a real gem on our hands!

I spoke with my Dad about this as he watches only South American Soccer. He believes Ramiro is extremely raw for Europe but could slot into any top 5 club in South America. The problem is, that the English Championship may be a tougher and quicker league than an Argentine, Peruvian or Chilean League. Only the Brazilian League could possibly compete with The Prem.

Personally, I see this as a good signing. Funes Mori would have eventually ended up in Italy or possibly Portugal next season and his price would have gone up a few mil. Jagielka has a new project and this one will be a bit harder than bringing Stones up to speed. It will be worth it in 2 year's time.

Welcome, fella.

Interesting, though not entirely surprising. Thanks for info.

We wanted new players, we got some new players.

It's really that simple. People can complain about it all they like, but we have what we have and I don't see why that's so terrible.

To name a few of those 'experts' who commented in the run up to his transfer; your mate Tim Vickery, Phil McNulty of BBC and Nick Dorrington of ESPN all panned him. Others have too including various commentators on here. I would say that justifies 'roundly believed not to be up to it' when compared to not a single positive review.

I hope he's a success and will support him from the moment he pulls on the shirt and I value Roberto Martinez' sopinion far greater than some journalist hacks but the point was more about it seeming a lot of money considering the reviews.

I don't listen to TalkSport because it's aimed at neurotic halfwits but, if you're telling me Tim Vickery spouted a load of shite on there, who am I to disagree?

If there are no more questions your honour...