Kenwright: Everton aren't a selling club and never have been

Not to mention that the Club accounts show profit on player trading of 䀀M in the last 5 years.

And although there is mention of the failed KD stadium move as one of the criticisms, there's no explanation of why that should be absolved, and clearly no mention of the lies involved in the Desperation Kirkby fiasco.

So it just comes across as another Club sponsored puff piece saying "Be careful what you wish for, plucky little Everton."

I could put up with the smugness, if it wasn't for the lies. He makes me sick, especially the line about doing everything they could, to keep an 18-year-old scouser, that was destined for greatness.

If this was the case, Bill, can you tell us why John Stones is still an Everton player?

Somebody replied,

'What sanctimonious shite. It's as if BK wrote it himself.'

Couldn't put it better. It was like a scripted press release cherry picking the positives from years of chaos.

He's become 'The Chairman Who Cried Wolf'

The fundamental point, however, is that we are certainly not an INVESTING club! Not in infrastructure terms anyway, and it is this FACT that is leaving us trailing a growing number of clubs, and has conveniently been skipped. Time to go.

No wonder I refer to him as The Dear Leader. Smug and patronising piece which the Mirror should be ashamed to publish. Never mind venting at Mourinho tomorrow, aim your ire at the Directors box!

It's not Coronation Street, Bill. You can't just expect a nodding dog audience that goes along with any plot. We do question things.

...Well, some of us do.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2035712/Bill-Kenwright-exclusive-The-pain-pride-owner-Everton.html

The thing that annoys me about this piece is the pathetic journalism. David Maddock at least spells out 3 criticisms but then fails dismally when he doesn't put them to BK. In fact if anything he tries to answer one of them for BK and selects an old quote re selling to further back him up. So I would email Dave Maddock
(mirrorfootballstaff@mgn.co.uk) or comment on their site.

I am no believer in the great conspiracy of money being squirreled away and I would probably try and put spin on my performance if I was BK.

That is how it will remain because if we have hope that through a few banners the fearless world of journalism will blow open the whole story....well think again. Not, and never will be, in their interests in this PL era.

How many players we sold for many tens of millions of pounds have wanted to stay? How many put in a transfer request? Since Johnson sold Ferguson how many first team players have been sold against their will?

Perhaps the change that has happened in the last 2 years is the receipt of vastly improved amounts of money - which has been spent on players.

Our debt level (comparing like with like) is one of the lowest in the Premier League and achieved with no rich benefactor - 5th from bottom http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3016432/Club-club-guide-Premier-League-s-financial-health.html

In general BK is correct in that we have kept our very good players (McCarthy, Baines, Stones, Coleman, etc.) and when we've sold it has been beneficial for the club. He's also correct in that we have bought at a higher value than we've sold over recent years and are thus a net buying club.

It's easy to look at the negative side, only at players we've actually sold and those we haven't bought in transfer windows but try to look also at the positive side of how well we've bought and developed even if we have sold. The unfortunate reality is that we have had to sell to survive at times but give some credit where it's due, we've kept a very good squad together over the last couple of years.

Why has he chosen now to make a statement? He has been quiet for the last twelve months, and now we've managed to keep Stones he's come out of his shell.

By the way, we've only kept Stones until next Summer at the latest; when he is sold will the money be used to buy players? and I mean all of it.

My feeling is that we can't keep a player like Stones, we're a step down from the level that this very talented individual needs to be playing at. Surely the club can't be criticised for selling a player we can't keep and it may be that he will go to Spain for a price much higher than Chelsea wanted to pay. This is massively win-win for the club and it won't weaken us that much. Our tactics weaken our defence far more than the loss of Stones would.

Additionally, if a story is to be told (such as this) it needs to be balanced otherwise it becomes an ego-massage for BK.

I've not met an Evertonian who has stated BK or the board are skimming money from the club, which is what the article refers to. Evertonians I speak to are worried our debt levels are increasing and we seem to be able to only purchase players by increasing our borrowings each season (in a time of extra Sky money). Additionally, the stadium issue.

I can counter your assumption with my own:- Bill called the journalist and asked for a piece to be written regarding Stones as it is a positive outcome which should be celebrated. See... my assumption is unfounded, same as yours.

"He's also correct in that we have bought at a higher value than we've sold over recent years and are thus a net buying club." I'm afraid you're wrong there Martin as the Club accounts show the true picture that we have been a nett selling club for the last 6 years.

His use of 'the last 2 seasons' is a bit of a cheat as it includes this season which isn't over yet.

If more ambition had been shown earlier in his tenure, then perhaps we wouldn't have to worry about losing our quality players at this point in time. Given our lack of ambition and cash, we should be happy with our lot and shouldn't overly criticise the club or its players or complain that Goodison Park isn't quite as good as we would like it to be.

Pragmatism is all very well and fans accepting things as they are is not a crime but will those same fans show patience if or when results start to mirror last season's? Of course not... they'll blame the manager and he'll be shown the door, but the real villain of the peace will remain in situ and the club will continue on the same path it has been on for the last decade or so. So far it has yielded one FA Cup Final appearance and one Champions League qualifier; don't expect too much more in the next decade would be my advice and be thankful that we continue to be members of the 'best league in the world' because that is broadly what our leaders deem to be success.

Bill says we have never really been a selling Club and never have been.

You state categorically that we have had to sell to survive.

Can you back up your statement?

I didn't make any assumptions on the interview.

Eric, EFC has been a net buying club for at least the last 5 years to the tune of £4M per year. Btw, these figures for me show positivity not negativity. We've steadily improved the size and quality of our squad with very little spending compared to our peers.

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

I believe that the board has done well in their purchases and that the club (board plus coaching staff) have done very well in developing players. How we play now is up to the manager and coaching staff not a stick that can be used to beat the board. All BK can do is sack the manager but the reality is that he is incredibly loyal for a modern chairman.

And does the timing of this article, and Chelsea in, mean Bill will be in his seat tomorrow?

The question I asked was why has Billy come out now with this statement? Why, for instance didn't he make a statement when Chelsea first made an offer for John Stones and tell them Stones was not for sale, instead of letting his manager front up all the weeks Chelsea were pursuing our player?

Where was he then? Saying absolutely nothing.

No - you may be obsessively paranoid and locked in a special hospital for the criminally insane.

No we didn't is the answer, we paid ٧.5M for him. The true figures of profit on player registrations are shown in the Club accounts and they show profit on player trading of 䀀M in the last 5 years, meaning we have been selling a lot more than we have been re-investing.

You at 18: "Dave, he was answering a question put to him by a journalist rather than making a spontaneous statement himself."

That would be an assumption - on the article.

Good financial management is in the best interests of the club, not selling your best player (without a replacement) to balance the books.

Embarrassing David, you have previous as a journalist who, when called on, can be relied upon to put your name to pieces provided by Everton's PR dept, but could you at least have the decency to check the information you're being provided with? Where's the balance? Who said that protesting fans are claiming that "money Everton make from TV and commercial interests is being squirreled away"? Fans aren't, neither are they citing just one failed relocation, they're critical of soon to be three abortive attempts to relocate the club and an additional disaster to redevelop part of Goodison. With a little work you'd have discovered that the fans are protesting at not just the stagnation at Goodison but the apparent inability of the board to put forward any semblance of a plan to improve the situation. Your revelation that under Kenwright the average finishing position is 6th, which you describe laughingly as relative success, tells any Evertonian worth their salt everything; if you'd bothered to look, the average is 9th, exactly the same as the previous sixteen years which at least included eight trophies. How you accept a pay cheque for stuff like this is beyond me.

So would you agree that the statement made in the article "that prudent management can bring relative success, as an average finish of sixth during Kenwright's 16-year reign shows" has nothing to do with Kenwright as it states, but everything to do with the manager and his coaching staff?

Not saying it is great to see by any means. Just that I don't know a club that doesn't do this fans / media manipulation. I reckon we are about mid to low in the media / fans manipulation league.

My frustration, as someone trained as one, is the pathetic journalism. But in the end they will cooperate with club owners as PL sells papers, subscriptions.

That is why I rarely get annoyed for long about the press anymore in anything they do. Would be akin to being a modern King Canute – especially post-Leveson.

Journos make a living from PR statements and press releases. Have written them myself and chuckled as they printed tosh I'd scribbled together.

Putting "Note to Editors" at the end and an embargo date and Bob's your uncle. Easy day for journo, bullshit supplied by me printed and news values out the window.

I think they now would say that the chance to comment online (as you have done) excuses them from doing any research or questioning.

Sad demise of a once good profession.

Will he still be spouting that bullshit he's come out with when, as it seems likely, Chelsea come back with a bigger offer next summer and we then cash in?

No, he'll do the typical disappearing act and, as usual, get his stooges in the local and national media to stitch up the outgoing player while bigging up Kenwright into the bargain.

Seen it all before....

Everything else has pretty much been a complete failure. No long term plan, no investment in the infrastructure of the club, 3 failed ground moves, no improvement commercially, relying on offshore loans, the lack of transparency regarding the ownership etc.

To others posting on here.....you maybe prepared to justify the longest trophy drought in our history but I am not. I can remember a time when using the words "Trophy" and "Everton" in the same sentence wasn't a cue for laughter.

We don't have a pot to pee in; everything that isn't nailed down has been sold and still there are people prepared to defend this man and his tenure.

Best advice on this thread

From 1993 - 2015 (that's 22 bloody years): 4 mega rich clubs (and one that was rich for a season):

Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City

I am not justifying our Board but if PL stays as it is, the dominance by the mega rich will continue and nobody else will have the word "trophy" synonymous with their name.

As for playing to come 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Well that is the biggest con the PL has ever pulled to keep fans outside the top 4 interested. In the end even if you did get through CL qualifying, you may get a few quid but you would need to do it 5 or 6 times to start getting the pull and money of the top 4.

So whilst we may well all want a better Board, some investment, a better ground etc...in the end I am depressed to conclude we will still just be fighting clubs around 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th for the foreseeable future. There is too much vested interest for the powers that be to try and create a level playing field.

And that is a problem beyond our Board and lies with the PL and their media/TV mates.

Sure, litigation plays a part but a well researched piece with evidene can be protected from litigation. I think it is more they all drink from the same trough.

But with the likes of Stoke, Swansea, Southampton, Leicester, Bournemouth and any other Championship newcomer outspending us year on year we will not be fighting for 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th but for 14th, 15th, 16th and 17th.

Does anyone at EFC think this tired old practice of wheeling out these old cliches have any effect on how people now perceive Bill & Co? Talk about damning with faint praise. "Perennial relegation strugglers." Really?

I'll leave it there. But, if I were to offer any advice to the the PR department at EFC, it would be to stop these ridiculous puff pieces; it does not put the club in a good light. It all comes across as rather amateur.

We didn't sell Pienaar when he was at the top of his game and our key man in the months after we hadn't sold Arteta on transfer deadline day.

We didn't sell Rodwell when he had broken into the England squad and was viewed as a potential star.

We didn't sell Gravesen midway through a season and risk our chances of a top four finish.

We didn't sell our future season ticket revenue to bankers in the Caribbean. Neither did we sell Finch Farm to the city.

We didn't sell our merchandising to the lowest paying bottom feeder to cut off distribution to the majority of fans.

Not to mention the previously discussed non-event sales of Rooney, Fellaini and Lescott. None of these things happened.

We are big bollers. We splash the cash. Hail Chairman Bill.

We aren't Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea and active in the spending power league and we won't be unless we find a benefactor, not an investor, somebody who is willing to throw away a very large amount of money.

So what if we're a selling club or not, whatever the definition of that is? So what if BK framed an interview? We are where we are now; how are you going to get us out of it?

Oh yes of course, board out, sell the club in a fire sale, get a new board who has "ambition" and "a plan". You really couldn't make it up.

And that is the whole point of the protests, the Club has no plan.

And we didn't finish 6th last season.

This shouldn't happen but is more than likely to; I hope I am wrong.

You can't just gloss over 16 years of lies and shit management and say we are where we are now so let's get on with it. You have doggedly defended the board and now you appear to accept they are not what you have been defending.

You have already insinuated Bill is a liar. Hopefully that's the first step on your recovery.

But a much better bet is we won't ever win the league with current PL set-up.

My point was really to agree that the Board can do better but to say some aspirations are well out of their hands (eg, winning league) for reasons I explained. So to some extent we do have to limit our expectations (if not heart felt hopes).

There is a balance to be struck between on the one hand seeing our club run well and achieving what it can and pipe dream expectations of us winning the league. We will have no hope of doing with current league set up.

So what are our realistic hopes? 4th? A cup? Good play? A new stadium?

All commendable but we play in a different league to the top 4 who play for the title and the rest of the Euro big boys who play for the CCL (who will inevitably form their own league one day).

I find no joy in that and to be 6th (or whatever is) is not something I will ever celebrate. Nor will I celebrate finishing 4th as the PL says I should. That is just celebrating a good payday – it does not mean we will win anything.

I never started going to matches as a little kid and being told to support good paydays.

That last sentence is hilarious. You view a board with a plan as some far-fetched ideal. Surely that's a minimum for any company director.

It just seems that with the ever increasing telly money the only aim of our board is to stay on the gravy train.

Does this mean you agree that the present board have "No Ambition" and "No Plan"

"Just to say that I won't post again on this post or anything similar."

Martin Mason
ToffeeWeb, 10/09/2015

I of course rule out two or three and as you say they are entitled to act in any way they choose.

As a matter of interest, will you be applauding? I'd bet you will just smile at the reaction of the crowd.

A guy said to me before the City game : "You would think Grantchester would put a few bob into the transfer pot."

I wish I'd never stumbled across ToffeeWeb, I could live in ignorant bliss along with a few others! ;-)

Martin Mason
510 Posted 10/09/2015 at 19:14:19
Jay@503, no I don't support lying.

So how can you support BK?

But I don't therefore think I am an enlightened smart arse, nor, though I disagree with much of what he says, that Martin is stupid or that those who applaud BK at games (that they pay for) are ignorant.

Life and reasons for opinions are much more complicated than that.

"Just to say that I won't post again on this post or anything similar."
Martin Mason
ToffeeWeb, 10/09/2015

And there lies the foundation for debate...

Plus, where were the Kenwright quotes on the failed things?

Then the Mirror have the cheek to say the new deals for players and us keeping the likes of Stones should be enough for us to basically forget the failings and stick 2 fingers up at the fans that organised the plane and used the banners! Fucking joke!

He's the written-word equivalent of an out-of-body experience

*The above is not stated as a fact, rather a personal opinion dressed up as one

Anyhow, let's batter them tomorrow, it'll be great to see Maureen's face with another defeat on him.

There fucking is Bill, thousands of us who pay to see our team .

I'm just one who pays 200 Quid a weekend, I've been going 50 years. Do the maths TV Bill, yes I'm a bigger Evertonian than you!!

How much of your own dough have you spent??

Just his grinning picture makes me cringe..

In my younger days, I thought I was keeping the blue flag flying by getting my shit knocked in at away games in the '80s. I have no pride in this (but some good memories).

Basically put your money where your mouth is or leave. Too much time has passed and too many opportunities have been wasted.

Eric@72, I don't support BK.

Phil@67, I was asked a question it would have been terribly rude not to have answered and anyways you guys learn so much from me how can I not continue with my education programme?

And Joe (87), really agree there is no such thing as 'better' Evertonians. A few on here could learn from your wisdom.

This is exactly what happened against Villa after the first ever BU protest in 2011.

The pressure needs to be cranked up to boiling point against him and his useless board.

Kenwright was part of the board when we had Brett Angell and John Oster so what's your actual point?

Everyone in the EPL is in a much better position now and some "unfashionable clubs" even more so than others.

I see your Brett Angell (1993-1995) & John Oster (1997-1999) and offer you Per Kroldrup (2005-2006), Lie Tie (2003-2006), Simon Davies (2005-2007), James McFadden (2003-2008) & James Beattie (2005-2007).

I see both sides of the argument but at the end of the day he is a Blue like us and unless a billionaire or a major consortium is going to pump money into us like Chelsea and Man City, I'd rather stick with who I know!

It's fine you two crying for the big move upwards but where do you think it's coming from? Get real, boys.

Tony, there were some gems you showed there I'd rather forget — ouch.

And so far as not being a selling club, we've sold our training ground, built a state-of-the-art one, and sold it. Sold our merchandising concession.

Our ground has had a few bangles and blingy fings slapped on it and that's it. Not ONE improvement, none.

Not a selling club?
Not a developing club!

Add to this, a team should only be spending money based on the club's turnover. That's just simple business. If you spend more than you make, you'll eventually wind up like Portsmouth. Supporters should not expect their owners to put up their own money without expectation of a reasonable return on investment. I'd love for a billionaire to come in, buy the club, and put down 100's of millions of his own money but that's not likely to happen. I'm not going to blame the board for running Everton like a business.

You may be thinking I'm a Kenwright apologist but that's far from the truth. I'm just trying to look at things from an unbiased perspective. This board has made many errors with regards to selling off assets and turning over merchandising/concessions for paltry sums. They don't seem to have the forward thinking mentality to improve Everton's turnover. The numerous failed stadiums and streams of bad debt are just the most noticeable of their bumbling efforts.

All that being said, we could be worse off. I truly believe that Kenwright loves the club and wants nothing but the best for it. He just doesn't quite know how to reach that goal.

As for his comments, I have no problem with what he's said. He's done some good here and I don't begrudge him harping on that fact. If you're expecting him (or the manager) to be bluntly honest or go off on a Mourinho-like rant, you're not being realistic. Everyone lies or stretches the truth.

In my over 50 years of supporting, I've seen ups and downs and right now I'm not nearly at the depths of the past.

Then, and I do agree with the prudent "only spend what you can afford" budget management. Even if this is pure common sense, it's still bloody solid logic. Although, a better run Everton should be able to afford much more.

I do not think there is a living breathing Evertonian of sound mind that doesn't utterly believe that Bill Kenwright is a devoted Evertonian, always has been and always will be.

What clearly is in dispute is whether he is a great, good, average, complacent, well-intended, lacklustre, rubbish, dangerous, deranged leader for the club. But, Evertonian or not performance is all.

Link

And here also:

Link

Kenwright took over a net asset position, the club is now seriously in debt and has made losses for the majority of Kenwright's tenure.

GP is becoming dilapidated rapidly.

I'd love for Paul Gregg to tell the truth about the takeover and why he walked away .

anyway let's squeak a win against that heavily funded shite tomorrow.

"The fact is the team and the club is in a lot better position than when he took over."
By which measures?

"Granted we could and maybe should be in an even better position with regards to the stadium and honours won but we could so easily have been a lot worse off."
So we aren't as well off as we could be then, are we?

"I see both sides of the argument ....... I'd rather stick with who I know!"
WHY?
In a crumbling ground, increasing debts, sold assets and winning no honours? Is fear of relegation our only raison d'etre?

If so, that's a bloody long way short of "Nil Satis Nisi Optimum", isn't it?

Alan, you can live anywhere in the world and, yes you are right, you are still a blue. As to your question; no I don't go to many away games, due mostly to age.

That isn't the fault of the site which excels in providing an open forum where now even apostates like me can raise a valid opinion. It is the fault of those who use the site to undermine the club.

Once upon a time, the world land speed record was 30 mph; it isn't any longer, it's a bit faster.

Once upon a time, Everton was known as "The Millionaire's Club"; it isn't any longer.

Once upon a time, Goodison Park was amongst the finest football grounds on the planet; it isn't any longer.

Keep believing in this mixture of faded glories, myths and fairytales if you so wish, but where is the hope, aspiration and progress?

Pop back under your forest bridge and re-familiarise yourself with the club motto.

A bit quick off my seat there, that lease thing will be there when I'm gone.

Well done though, the Dear Leader relies on supporters like you to maintain any semblance of credibility. Take the blindfold off and look at the facts, a bust regime dragging us down financially by stealth to further their own selfish ends.

But they don't want a buyer, they want INVESTMENT, a bit like a nice offshore loan related at ridiculous interest rates...

The club is a commercial shambles and, the more fans that wake up and see through the lies and propaganda, the better the clubs future can be. Redshite Peter Johnson built the Park End... what has Blue Bill actually done?

Good thread with a predictable apologist thrown in. I have spent months educating the Evertonian masses elsewhere, some corkers like the "Why doesn't Grantchester do more on the board" etc etc and a cracker from US guys who believed that because Earl had bought them drinks he was a lifelong Evertonian, you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

Myths like the mortgage Bill Jong Ill took out and the sterling work of Watchedtoffee are all there to be found if you try; sometimes you have to take time off after listening to some of the droning rubbish regurgitated by some supporters who simply refuse point blank to see what's going on right before their eyes.

I love Everton and I want a better Everton and will continue to educate and protest against this fraud and his carpetbagger mates until the day the door at Goodison hits them on the arse on the way out.

The propaganda machine of Everton PR and how it's timed and operates was laid out in glorious technicolour during the Rossgate emails so you can even set your clock to when to expect current or ex-players to churn out some guff and the fraud to lean on his media buddies to churn out coats-for-goalposts fawning selective garbage.

Haha!! What evidence do you have that your views are those of the majority of Evertonians?

No answer will come the reply. And so we will move on to the next thread and the next windup. TW has become really entertaining in the international break! Thanks you.

We have Kenwright who is one of us and is struggling to sell but do you want any Joe mincing in with a payoff and interest?

I'm proud that we haven't yet sold out to Yanks or Arabs but, if the right deal comes, then great.

I was tempted to invite you to meet for a pint when you were in Orlando with the family last year but it would have spoiled your vacation.

I am beginning to think that our old friend and pal of Chairman Bill from Maghull has morphed into Martin Mason.

I say expose because The Sun of all papers flagged it up as a Merseyside journalist apparently recognised this member of the Media team, and called them out at the next Press Conference where the startled employee's red face said it all.

There are clearly no levels the Club won't sink to to deceive its own fans. Very sad.

Oh the good old days of Desperation Kirkby and the club plants posting almost verbatim the sales pitch for Kirkby and the lies one by one, churning them out even after every single one had long been debunked by the KEIOC guys.

Alan Bodell, you want to hold your horses there a bit with the "sell out to a yank" line; hmm... and where does the second largest shareholder Robert Earl live then (I have to say he's just a front for BCR)?

It is highly likely John Stones will leave our club within 6 months (hopefully a lot longer). But the lad is still here, hopefully playing today against a small club who happen to have a lot of money. Let's face it, 15 years ago, if somebody mentioned 'Chelsea' you thought 'Bun'!

I fully accept that anybody has a right to fly a plane and banner within the laws of the land. However, I believe if this happens today – before the game – it will be a major negative. We can turn over this Chelsea side and upset the chosen tit, but the 326 away people will find voice and John Stones may be completely convinced his future lies elsewhere.

On a final note, I believe Bill Kenwright has been quite ill in the last few weeks... I don't know for certain, but could that be a reason for silence?

To submit a message for the Fan Board section of the programme, please email Evertonprogramme@trinitymirror.com.

One of Martin's comments is worth a hundred comments of an opposing view in highlighting the true position of our club!

Keep it up, Martin!!!

To me, that is failure and it is time for change. Where that change comes from, I don't know... but I do know that we are going nowhere with Kenwright and Co.

Andrew@138. I would really love to see a change of direction for the club which at least sees us reach our historic potential if not our current resource based potential. I hope that you don’t mind me asking a question but how do you see that this could be achieved?

How do you see a transfer of ownership being effected and in such a manner that the incoming owners will put in the amount of money that we need not only to solve the ground problem (𧶀M) but to continually spend enough money to improve the squad to the level required to challenge the top clubs (maybe 㿞-100M a year net)?

How would you see a new board which works under the same revenue constraints (living within income) as the current board, improving the fortunes of the club?

It’s a question I ask myself and I have no real answer because I’m not sure there is a quantifiable one. Sell more shirts, get a better sponsorship deal? Not really, our merchandise sales and sponsorship deals are based on our weak brand status and the only way that this’ll change is if we get winning TV exposure in big European competitions.

Heysel was Everton’s tragedy because we would have been in that position. Can a side like ours ever again rise to the status of that wonderful side in the modern EPL like Villa, Ipswich and Forest once did? I personally don’t think so.

Regarding your 25-year timescale, the club had a lot of history in 1990 but were in really bad shape and the EPL exposed that reality very cruelly. I’ve seen two ground improvements since I started watching in the late '50s and otherwise the club has been tragically starved of infrastructure investment by every board. Has this tragic decline been the fault of our current board? Answer that honestly to yourself.

Bear in mind that the Club proposed top spend £78M on a stadium in Kirkby so please explain how your stadium design differs from that proposed for DK and where the additional costs from your design come from.

Thanks in advance.

Over the period from 2005 until 2015, 10 full years, we have made a profit on player trading of £124,868.

Every club sells players at some stage, but with Kenwright in charge, the only value we have is out on the pitch. We are built on quicksand, and must change the way the club is ran before the Sky gravy gets diluted.

You fail to accept that the duty of a board is to act in the long term interests of the club, that's company law btw, irrespective of public or private ownership, and that the long term future viability of a company is ensured through adequate funding and a sustainable business model. The failure of the board to do either or put right any alleged board inadequacies from 15 years ago has put the club in the very real constraints you refer to currently.

We should never have been in such a position in the first place and that directly relates to the period of time when BK and his cronies acquired their shares. It has been suggested that the incumbent debt was a leveraged purchase where a significant amount of the monies paid for shares are transferred to a debt in the club. If so, it would compound your financial issues and restrict access to funding.

The result of 15 years of self-interest management as opposed to sound management has left the club with no assets, all sold to pay operating costs. They made a rod for their own back and yet you continue to ascertain they have managed the club well.

Martin, they have lied to fans and shareholders alike, they have been subject to criticism from a government enquiry, they have refused to answer legitimate concerns in relation to their promises and actions... yet still you profess they have done well.

There are two very real aspects at play: the team and its manager; and the influence decisions made have at a board level on the team.

Success is dependent on the right manager, sufficient funding in place to put a team together. Irrespective of the former, without funding, success will never happen. If your measure of success is survival, then we sold the house and survived.

The elephant in the room fails to acknowledge the very reason we have only survived has been because of the failure to find a sustainable funding model to begin with. That some believe we should thank the board for this lack of action is frankly absurd.

I support a great team, a great life-long love affair... but the running of the club means I cannot and would not support the management of the club based on its honesty, integrity, transparency and treatment of shareholders and fans alike. Trust in a love affair is critical. Use and abuse that trust and it's over.

The club thirty years ago was in a position to crack Europe but unfortunately that did not happen. We will never know how costly the ban hit Everton but it made some impact. The chairman has the club interests at heart but football is a different animal now.

Unless a new owner or investment comes in, our expectations will remain limited. I actually think the the club has overachieved with the investment put into the squad over the last fifteen years. How do I base that on? Look at Tottenham, Aston Villa, and Liverpool. Hundreds of millions spent and are any of those any teams ahead of us?

The chairman has done well with the Sky money given to him. What would annoy me is if we were in massive debt! The squad dosen't reflect that.

Sadly we are fans and that's all. Unless anyone buys the club, there's no point worrying about it. I support the team because I have no control over the boardroom.

Even the Chairman's biggest supporter has acknowledged we have sold to survive. We own nothing; everything is mortgaged. We are borrowing millions from offshore sharks. The ground is a disgrace and none of the board give a shit.

I ask again, Peter Johnson built the Park End... What has Kenwright done, on his watch, to make Everton a saleable business? Research it yourself on this website and you could answer your own questions.

You also say "What would annoy me if we were in massive debt" Is £107 million (90% of our income) and rising each year, not massive enough for you?

Are many clubs in the Premier League playing the same financial plan? In debt with banks waiting for the cheque from Sky to cover the overdraft? Who knows? All we can do as fans is support the team.

I know this may annoy people but I do think the chairman has done his best. Sadly, I like to think the best of people. He needs to hand the batton on now to a younger owner with innovation to move the club forward.

I'll look in to see if anybody adds anything new to the debate or if anybody ever actually proposes sensible solutions rather than constantly moaning about a club that is actually doing quite well despite its massive failings.

Exactly how we arrived to be a club with no assets or business plan that's been shown to its shareholders is paramount to the future of this club. The board got lucky big time with Sky monies and we would most certainly hit the wall had not new Sky monies come in. The banks controlled everything to do with expenditure, even transfer monies, remember the best little Spaniard?

The board failed to secure investment, failed to put their own money where their mouth was and refused to dilute shareholding. Commercially we have failed to take advantage of our historic and current standing in the Premier League, we most certainly could have done better.

Most boards have to live within a 3-year timeframe to achieve results or objectives. The point being this board have yet to state objectives, never mind a plan to do it. Survival is not enough for success. The bus has terminated.

I'm not sure I've seen a statement from you of what these "massive failings" are (as I'm not sure you've used that term before). Could you just set them out, please?

Is one of these massive failings you mention the fact that we actually do have to sell to survive, thereby showing yet again Bill's "misconception"?

(I didn't want to say 'lie'.)

Wake me up after another 500 posts!

He is a spin doctor trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Unfortunately some are taken in but responding to questions by mere deflection wears thin. Tuppence spent and sleep awaits.

Shall I go on..........
Guess what: they have all put their own money into their clubs.

I have to say I do not hate Kenwright but I do hate what he has and is doing to our Club. For the world's greatest Evertonian to oversee the stagnation of our Club that we are witnessing, to have mismanaged the great opportunities we have had, and to instill in the support the mediocrity that many think we are fortunate to have is unforgivable.

Bill Kenwright has put not a penny into this Club... in fact, when things all change. I reckon we will find that the Club have given HIM his stash.

Personally, I think the club is comparatively well run and don't want Everton to turn into Liverpool, Chelsea or Man City. There are other, better ways to run a club that don't involve selling your soul.

We won't win the league but our debt has been reduced and our squad is the best it has been since the 80's. This idea that Kenwright is some sort of leech because he hasn't sold the club or personally invested millions is ridiculous.

And Palace have redeveloped their ground and are now looking at further redevelopment to increase the capacity by 50%, despite being in administration only 5 years ago.