Moyes sacked by Real Sociedad

Time to take a hiatus from TW methinks.

Half the lads on here would still have the fella back to replace Roberto as well.

But with Moyes you know that seventh is going to be it (on average)...and there's the bending over against the 'big' clubs...

I'd take Roberto over David and that's saying something!

However, do not want to see him in the GP hotseat ever again, even in the future if Martinez is ousted. We have moved on.

He probably regrets that now. But I doubt that he will ever be forgiven. He did a decent job for us, shame he screwed up.

Martinez is criticised by many here (sometimes justifiably), but at least he brings enthusiasm and has a clear vision for Everton's future (building a team based on young talent) while being very respectful of the history of the club.

I can see Moyes becoming a TV pundit, nothing more.

Outside the Premier League, David Moyes should have looked for a top European club who had 'the cash to splash.' I do believe David Moyes was forced to look at bargain basement for players.

I have said it before on here but I will say it again, had Martinez taken us on when Moyes did there is no way we would have avoided relegation and kicked on in the way we did.

Moyes also deserves respect for trying another league, something most British managers are close minded about doing. He did beat Barca for them last season with a terrible squad so it wasn't all bad. I rank our transformation under Moyes as the greatest managerial achievement in Premier League history given the net spend per season he had. That comes from one of his biggest critics as well.

The man had eleven years... I'll say that again: ELEVEN YEARS at Goodison and, rightly or wrongly, the owners of Manchester United and Real Sociedad barely gave him 11 months. If United hadn't have come calling, our board wouldn't have got rid; he would still be at Goodison.

It bears thinking about and also raises the question: What will it take to remove any Everton manager from Goodison aside from the team occupying a place in the bottom three with a dozen or so games to go?

No wonder there is no urgency shown from the team on too many occasions as there's no pressure to go for three points when one will often suffice.

I agree with most of what you say; I can't think of a manager or player who would not want to sign for Man Utd. He couldn't turn it down, but I said at the time I remember what happened when they tried to replace Busby and I think the next 4 or 5 managers failed dismally.

I never believe in going back it hardly ever seems to work, but Moyes is a good manager and will do a very good job for another Premier League team. But I don't forget how he turned this club around from a perennial relegation team to one that was always around 4th to 7th.

>>"had Martinez taken us on when Moyes did there is no way we would have avoided relegation..."<<

Well, yes, because in 2002 when Moyes took over, Martinez was a 29-year-old Motherwell player. I get your point but it's a serious stretch.

Steavey (#15), good point about Mr. Kendall meeting the same fate in Spain. I did wish Moyes the best, but I would truly have been astonished if he had succeeded over there.

I'd also guess he's headed home to Scotland, but I doubt Celtic will be his next stop... League/Cup Champions rarely change managers, and they're coasting at the top again. Somewhere down the table maybe.

But as soon as he went to Man Utd and started to bid for Baines (nothing wrong in that), he started to diss the club and showed the class of a chav who's just won the lottery – shoulda went to Chelsea really.

However, he did bring the club forward and of our current best XI, seven of them are Moyes's players – not a bad legacy.

Absolutely shocked when he got the Man Utd job, which was evidently beyond his capabilities; before that, he appeared to be overlooked for the Spurs position and battling to get the coach's job at Schalke or that level of team.

I am not surprised at all he didn't see it out at Real Sociedad: managers are highly expendable in Spain. As for his failure to make any headway whatsoever with the Spanish language and his continued residency in a hotel in San Sebastian, these smack of a small-time, provincial outlook.

Of course HK had the problem that he had to stick to the Basque only players rule. But he embraced the culture and the language. Moyes never learnt the language and his residence was still the hotel suite a year after getting the job. HK also finished as high as 4th whilst manager. On the other hand, Moyes's team sank like a stone.

I've used the parallel between the two because it illustrates what a great manager HK was. Moyes wasn't and isn't in the same league as Howard Kendall. Moyes for me, was always a poor man's Gordon Lee who dined out on finishing 4th. That finish was a complete anomaly and said more about the quality of the league that season than Moyes's management acumen.

The sacking also shows how far Moyes's star has fallen when even the Moyes's disciples on TW now treat any mention of him being reinstated as Everton manager as a joke.

Mr and Mrs Moyes sit in the Café Juan Nildown, dunking their Liptons breakfast tea-bags into cups of lukewarm water.

Morag: (narked) "A telt ye a hunerd times it wuz a mistake tae come here, but wud ye listen tae me? Wud ye hell! As per usual, you knew best"

DM: "Awright Morag, gi'it a rest wud ye, ahm feelin' bad enough as it is withoot mah own wife addin' tae the problemi"

Morag: "Ach stop yer whinin', it's alwez the same story wi you - 'puir me, puir wee Davey wants tae be left alone', well let me tell ye this, you'll be left alone awright, if ye think ahm folloyin' ye oot tae anymair god-forsaken shite-holes. Fer fuck's sake man, ye get sunstroke in Peebles but ye wanted tae live in Spain and 'experience a different culture.' Aye ye experienced it awright, sittin' in the hoose aw day wi' the curtains drawn, covered in gallons of after-sun"

DM: "Well...it'll no happen again that's fer sure, no' after this debacle and the Utd catastrophe. Right noo I'd be lucky tae get a job floggin' botulism burgers ootside fuckin' Goodison.

- Mobile rings -

Morag: "If it's the papers, say fuck awl!"

DM: (looks at phone and looks confused) "It's mah agent."

Morag: "Well answer it!!"

- He puts the phone to his ear and listens. After a couple of minutes, he puts the phone back in his pocket -

DM: (stunned) "He reckons Klopp is a cert to fuck up and get fucked awf, sez there's already mutterins coming fae they loyal kopites. He telt me tae sit tight fer a couple o' months and the job's as good as mine.......whit de ye think?"

Morag: "Ah fuckin' give up!! Whit did ah just say aboot god-forsaken shite-holes!?"

Up the Toffees!

However, in my opinion, he should have adapted the style to suit the improvement in quality of player at his disposal in the last couple of seasons or he should have moved on. It's like he didn't know what to do with a better standard of footballer and lacked the belief that we were better and could do better.

My first real vocal turning point was when we bottled it against Liverpool in the semi-final; yes, cite Distin's mistake but having had the most average Liverpool team I'd seen at that point on the ropes, he settled for 1-0 and invited them on in true Moyes fashion.

He lost me with the Wigan quarter final; Wigan at home with what would have been Millwall beckoning in the semi. What an opportunity but we and he bottled the occasion again.

So, respect for what he did whilst at Everton, but the bloke is not a winner and thrived on being the underdog hence his obsession with playing down expectation. Unfortunately for him now, he will fall into that category of other English coaching "greats" of the modern era; Allardyce, Pulis, Hughes et al.

What goes around comes around!

David Moyes 2008-2013 should really never have been in the GP dug out.

He squeezed as much out of the club as he could signing a new 5-year deal in 2008, getting a mammoth pay rise that earnt him around £4m/year over 5 years (he was on £1.5m/year before that), ridiculously making him one of the top earners in the league on par with managers who had one league titles and Champions LeagueL trophies. This after having the nerve to say players earnt too much and should take a 20% pay cut!

For those last few years, he was just treading water, raking in the cash, hoping for a 'bigger club' to come round – remember the cringing Spurs episode? Those last few years were a joke and a complete waste of time for Everton fans, just waiting for his contract to run down so he could bugger off.

Not really surprised he got the sack at Sociedad, all his xmases came early when he got the Everton job. He's just a very average old-school manager who started to believe his own hype too much at the end of the day.

I won't hold any grudges but there is no way I want him back as our manager. He'll probably end up at Celtic or a mid to low prem club. He'd be good at a club like Sunderland, needing to grind our results to stay up, playing KITAP1.

I grew with Everton constantly challenging for the title and playing the best football in the country. Moyes was a dead loss manager supported by a totally unambitious board. Mediocre beyond belief. Ambitious clubs do not keep these people for long.

Towards the end of his reign, I think he believed his own hype and acted like a prick towards the club. He looks a total failure now.

I think with Moyes it was generally understood as his time to go. Like most Evertonians (especially the older variety?) I was nervous as to what the future may bring. However the wonderful first season under Roberto was simply that; just wonderful. Stick or twist time could now be approaching. I think the results-driven approach will prevail.

I hope Roberto achieves success with us before he too eventually moves on. Credit to him for improving the squad, the PR outside perceptions of the Club, and the potential for improvement. I just wish he would try to make his own job easier, and improving the standing of the Club by not over-complicating the task. Give him some time say 1 - 2 seasons and if we are still treading water or slipping downwards then consider what is best for both parties.

If he were to leave then I wonder what the potential for Big Dunc would be in the hot seat. His general demeanor during his testimonial was first class...

One thing that is clear, Everton have a more stable, respectful approach to running their business than a lot of Clubs and that is another reason why I'm proud to be an Evertonian. COYB

He had limitations. I always felt he thought of us as the team he inherited rather than what we were going to be under him. Every year, the players looked leggy early in the season, as if they'd been over-trained. We'd languish in the bottom half before Christmas and then finish the season well, giving us hope for the next.

For all his defensive acumen, I lost count of the times we were one-up, sitting back in our box, when the equaliser would come.

Where we looked like we were really going to achieve something, he and his team collectively shat their pants and back we reverted to poor little Everton.

The fair person in me bemoans his luck in losing Yakubu, the one good striker he bought, and Arteta to injury. Looking back, I would loved to have seen Barry and Lukaku in a Moyes team.

For me, he was a good manager who did a good job in circumstances that couldn't have been better for him. His limitations were regularly exposed with us and at both teams he's managed since.

People who don't like Martinez and are knee jerking for Moyes's return, please remember why some of us wanted him out; please remember his lack of ideas regarding taking us forward; please remember his record when spending big money and be aware of the dearth of bargains around right now.

Good luck to the man but don't let him near Goodison!

He looked like a fish out of water in Spain. Neither he nor his assistant spoke Spanish and he just doesn't seem to have moved on tactically.

He would still be a fit at an aspiring Championship side like Fulham. Or even a Premier League side like Newcastle even if they didn't have such a scumbag chairman.

Don't feel too sorry for him as the two payoffs will have set him up for life, but I do wish him the best.

Hang on a minute.....

Let's have it right, he turned this club from perennial laughing stock of Ginola and Co, scraping the bottom, to a side that never really fell out of the top 7 and usually finished best of the rest in 5th.

Gordon Lee maybe, but Gordon Lee had the deep pockets of John Moores, not the coppers from Kenwright. Well paid, he did alright.

I can see him managing in the Premier League but I can also see him under-performing and changing many clubs. He will never get that comfort zone again.

I didn't like his transfer bids but he was Man Utd's manager and it was to be expected... the job he had then doesn't tarnish the job that he did for us.

Good luck to him. Personally I thought he would have been a great choice to stabilise Villa.

I pity the supporters of the club he turns up at next, he's an utter sham.

Irving was Moyes's assistant for a couple of seasons between 2005-2007 before leaving to manage Preston. 2004-05 we conceded 46 in the league, 49 in 2005-06 and 36 in 2006-07. He joined Preston in November 2007, so he really can't be credited with the best defensive record under Moyes's tenure when we let in just 33 goals in the the 2007-08 season.

As many have fairly alluded to, Moyes did a magnificent rebuilding job at the club, long reduced to squads of aging players and teetering on the cusp of relegation. Martinez inherited a much healthier club and a considerably stronger squad than the one Moyes took over from Walter.

I am grateful to Moyes and acknowledge the excellent work he did at the club. That said, his early utterances as Manure's manager directed towards Everton were offensive and ill-considered. No way should he ever again be given any sort of role within the Everton set up.

I keep hearing how marvellous our defence was under Moyes. Yes, they were well-drilled at set-pieces and we could do with plenty of that now, but I was never confident in us seeing games out.

I'm not interested in whether he's better than Martinez or not. I didn't think he was going to take us forward anymore and I'm not sure whether Martinez will.

The only thing that nearly frightened me more than Martinez's performance last season was people coming on here desperate for the likes of Pulis, Sherwood, Allardyce and Moyes to come in and 'save us'

He's a solid, if not too creative in the tactics department. He's a proven ship steadier. He has a good eye for bargain talent. He would have to take a bit of a pay cut, but he must have enough socked away by now to last him a few years.

However, I believe he had taken us as far as he could. I think he had an inferiority complex when it came to the top 4, and I don't think he would ever have taken the hand brake off to allow us to reach the next level.

I believe that, in time, he will regret how Man United came in with derisory bids for Baines and Fellaini. I don't think he was helped by having a novice Chief Executive trying to bring in players for the smallest possible outlay, hence the bids we initially received. His comments didn't help.

However, with a lot of water under the bridge, I can now see he did far more good at Everton than bad. He took us as far as he could, but I hold nothing against him now. I loved seeing him struggle at United initially, because I was also a bit aggrieved that we got no compensation for him. He allowed his own contract to run down. But time moves on, and he would be a good boss for any number of teams in the Prem who are looking for a solid, unspectacular coach.

A lot of his signings were good and some sold for big profit. We were solid defensively for the most part and the players know thier roles.

Yes, he had his faults: negative against the Big Boys but we were regularly in the top 6 or 7. Better than the previous manager.

He led us to 4th, consistent top 6 or 5 finishes when spending far less than our competitors. We went to 3 semi finals and one final.

Yes we lost to our adorable neighbours at Wembley but he could never have anticipated Distin's error. Yes we collapsed against our current manager's Wigan but I still maintain that the officials failed us that day for the first goal, Phil Neville retired on the pitch and their body language that day suggests they knew Moyes was Utd bound. They were that listless.

So, while I don't think he should ever come back, I do wince when I see him get fired twice in 18 months.

Let's remember there were some very enjoyable times with him at the helm and we could holds our head up high.

As for Martinez....it's still a work in progress....if I'm still saying that in a years time I think it would be time we looked elsewhere. Remember Moyes finished 4th in his 3rd season and with a squad much poorer than our current squad and in a tougher league where the top 4 were troubling the higher stages of the Champions League.

Yes, he was disrespectful over the Baines and Fellaini thing, and I'm sure he probably regrets that now. But let's not pillory him forever. He achieved a huge amount on a limited budget.

To be honest I used to resent the fact that plenty of posters on here in the past compared both managers and even had the gall to tout DM as the better man cos 'football had changed' since Kendall's day. It has probably tainted my view of him, but what he did was nothing less than acceptable seeing as he earned the best part of £30m whilst in charge.

He lost every game of magnitude except the 2009 semi, and that includes some mediocre foreign opposition who didn't have the wage bills we had.

He also constantly gave the impression we were lucky to have him, whilst constantly defending the position of the board. For me, he was lucky to have us, and his luck seems to have run out.

The Ginger One thought he was too big for us... how wrong he was!

I believe there is a vacancy at Sharm-el-Sheik Rovers in the Lower Isis Pyramid 7 league... Put him on the next flight out there, and send his top four Arran cardigans with him.

We wouldn't be that lucky, he'll probably end up at the Toon on top dollar, working his over-rated ego at an over-rated gaff.

You wrote "We went to 3 semi finals and one final" indeed we did and apart from a penalty shoot-out victory against an understrength United, we never saw a winning goal for Everton in any of them.

Moyes did do a good job up until about 2009, but he has never been a winner, he will probably always keep his teams in their division and might even get them knocking on the door of the top six, but he'll never be a winner unless he allows his teams to become more adventurous.

At any other period during Everton's history, he would have lasted four years at best, same as the guy who is in charge today, who will likely be here for half-a-decade at least.

[V.O: Señor David Moyes. Tactician. Scientist. Scottish. Searching for a way to tap into the hidden strengths all managerial mavericks possess. Then an accidental overdose of presbyterian radiation radically alters his body chemistry. And now, whenever David Moyes grows angry, outraged, or even slightly perturbed, a startling metamorphosis occurs.

[CLOSE UP OF MOYES. HIS PUPILS WIDENING AND HIM CLEARLY GETTING A MASSIVE TITTY LIP ON]

The creature is driven by caution and pursued by a slightly insensitive reporter:

Reporter: "So David, career's gone down the shitter a bit since you left Everton, hasn't it?"

Moyes: "Dinnie make me awl defensive, ken? You winnie like me when I've goan awl defensive."

The creature is wanted for career suicide he didn't wilfully commit. The fabled 'Moyesiah' is believed to be dead.... and he must let the footballing world continue to think that he is dead....until he can find a way to quell the dour minge that dwells within him".

-----------------------

This week's episode: Moyes audition for The Apprentice:

"Remember now, this is your big opportunity to sell yourself. So, with that in mind, which of your past achievements simply scream 'Lord Sugar's new business partner... BITCH!'. Wow me."

"Ach, ah've doan well tae get where ah ah'm, with the resources ah had available tae me, ah suppose.

I mean, they wee jams and marmalades they had me selling winnie the best but I managed tae floag enough tae consistently finish in the toap six salesman in oor office. That's toap six if we're strictly limiting it tae preserves and no condiments in general, ken?"

"Err...ok. Now you clearly must have great confidence in making it to the final stages of the show if you're prepared to step straight off your current upward career trajectory and risk everything on...."

"Can I just stoap you there, hen? I dinnie want tae make oot like it was awl ay bed ay roses wi my last employah. There was plentae ay adversity ah had tae overcome. At one point they wanted tae gie me a promoyshon and switch me oan to the team selling smoothies and they trendy yoghurt drinks. Now, they're no real drinks tae me, but I was prepared to gie it a reet good go and try and smash that glass (jam jar shaped) ceiling. Then I realised it was a nay win situayshon cause it meant me coampetin fir clients wi Geoff Frothsperm froam the second floah!! Geoff Frothsperm? Wi his smart suits, fancy Apple Watch and Hugh Grant hayer?!? Against me, with ma stay-creased action slacks, plassy casio and greying copper joab oan top? It's like taking a fookin carton of 'Laughing Cow' to a bullfight. Ah'm telling ya, I woulda been lucky tae get oot of their alive".

"Riiiight. Understood. Now...err...excuse me a second [cough, cough]. Now...erm...What would be your winning strategy to leave all other candidates trailing in your wake?"

"Having gein it soam serious coansideration, ah'd proablee bunker doon and focus oan securing what ah've got. Keep a tight ship and no start getting aheed oaf myself, like. If ah was gein five hundred poonds to go out and buy ingredients for a food staw as part of ay task, I'd proablee just keep ahold ay the money, tae be honest. Secure it in mae man-bag and just tell any hungry punters tae fuck oaf cause there isnae any food today. Five hundred poonds is five hundred poonds and ah'm no having Davie Moyes getting a reputayshun as being frivolous with other peoples money. Ya can foaget that fae a game o' soldiers ah'm telling yae".

[Cut to Señor David Moyes once again walking down an abandoned high way, massive Umbro bag slung over his shoulders, staring mournfully into the distance as the mournful piano music from The Incredible Hulk starts to play].

Not even then.

However, as a football manager you only get so long and then depending on the controlling power at the top you can find yourself out on your ear very quickly as Moyes has found out at Manure and Sociedad and a few others at Leeds (6 managers in 2 years).

He got an extension at Everton early on based on the fact that Everton had some pretty awful managers before him and of course a benevolent Bill Kenwright.

He does have some quality and I am sure he will be back in the Premier League soon.

As long as it isn't Goodison, I don't give two shits where he ends up.

The Moyes Family Holiday (written when Moyes was still in situ) still makes me smile now.

I always thought that Everton was as good as it would ever get for him, great job with absolutely no pressure. Well, he gave it a go elsewhere as I suppose he had to.

I still believe he let us down with the manner of his departure and I think his time might have gone. Winning promotion or staving off relegation seems to me to be his future.

He was a bloody awful manager. Just think how Everton might have fared with a Harry Redknapp or a Martin O'Neil. Or anybody. But no. We plodded on with Moyes.

And we will now plod on with Mr Martinez. Is he the man to bring success to Everton? And will he balls everything up for another 11 years before someone catches on he is not the man for the job. I am not sure about Martinez. I am really not that convinced by what he is trying to do. And I give up completely on what Moyes was trying to do. 4-5-1 every bloody match.

And it is not all to do with money. Leicester City have built a good-on-the-eye team. So have Southampton. As has Palace. And West Ham are looking good. Add Spurs to that list. Point is, I would love to see Everton play a free flowing easy-on-the-eye game. Our last two managers have fallen short. We always seem to be short of something. We have the players, so I have to blame the managers. And the board for their lack of vision.

As others have said, the semi-final against the RS and quarter-final against Wigan was where he lost the fans. Although to our credit there was no chanting of "Moyes Out".

Fergie did say in his autobiography that the Moyes to Man Utd deal was done in mid-December 2012.

I'm not sure if that's a conspiracy theory too far. It would mean BK was complicit. But there was so little discussion about Moyes's contract expiring in the media you begin to wonder.

I don't think Stones so much as appeared on a bench during that 6-month spell, yet Martinez brought him straight into the first team squad.

Like I said, I'm not sure I buy it. But as recent events in the IAAF are showing us, sport and money are not good bedfellows, and all sorts of underhand stuff goes on. Our recently passed former manager was one of the rarities – a true gent within the game.

In 2009 we finished 5th in the league again with our 2nd highest points total under Moyes (63 points). Given that we also got to an FA Cup Final you could argue that was our best season since 2004-05. How do you justify sacking your manager then?

Last season we finished 11th on 47 points. Our worst season since 2003-04.

Is treading water worse than going backwards?

Ha, made up, pissed myself laughing when I found out about the disrespectful shite. No sympathy whatsoever. Ha.

Has there ever been a time where five teams are splashing out either double (Liverpool, Arsenal) or nearly triple what we do in annual salaries (Chelsea, both Manchester clubs)? Not to mention transfer fees!

Has there ever before been a situation where these clubs could afford not only to scour the best players from all around the world, but also to stockpile the next best to prevent having to play against them?

I'm sorry, but if you sack a manager for finishing between 5th - 7th in this league every year with a salary limit around 㿭m salary cap, you are deluded.

Can't change his approach – stubborn, stupid, arrogant? All three? He should have left Everton after the 2009 Cup Final, because it was at that point where he began to think he was bigger than the club. He wasn't, as the events of the last two years proved.

Thanks Dave... but no thanks.

He certainly has a few records he can better: most draws in a season, lowest ever points tally, lowest ever goals tally, most consecutive games without a win. He also has his penknife to take to those big games. Of course he has also managed two of the greatest clubs on the planet.

Seems that we have a thing about bad news for previous managers.

He was good with us and then turned into a prick when he went.

Shafted by Man U players the way Old Woy was shafted by the Shite players. Not that I was arsed either way.

He was a good manager but not good enough.

The same as Martinez is a good manager but I can't see us winning anything with him even though he has probably our best squad in decades.

He left the safest job in football when he moved to UTD but his head was probably turned by Fergie in the same way that Rooney was turned by fellow England players from UTD.

I do not want him back though, but all the best in his next assignment !

Yes, I remember the years before Moyes... when we won the FA Cup as rank outsiders under Joe Royle, a manager who built a team that believed it could move mountains – not one that took knives to gunfights. Mixed metaphors but hopefully you get the point.

Moyes is driven by fear of success not fear of failure and it will always hold him back.

At Everton you built a strong and difficult team to beat. And at times we played some great football too (not all fans agree). Man Utd and Real Soceidad needed re-shaping and rebuilding time was never going to be on your side. The poisoned chalice of Fergie and the impatience of the Spanish was always a no-go situation.

We won't be too sad for you as you have had a few big payouts for being sacked. I see your future dropping a division and rebuilding a team. Good luck Dave, but remember about the GRASS!

End of story.

I wish him well, and have absolutely nothing against the man on any level.

He backed up that pricky attitude with stating he would have let them go if he was still here.

After that, there was definitely no going back for him.

"Cahill, Jagielka, Arteta, Pienaar,Lescott, Mirallas, Stones, Baines, Coleman, Naismith - say what you want about Moyes he could spot a player at the right price and improve them 100%."

"...didn't record a single league away win against Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea or Arsenal in 44 attempts."

I'm in the camp with the folks who believe his tenure was more positive than negative, but that last statistic is just plain ugly.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/david-Moyes-reaction-he-deserved-10419354

That his era was marked as successful (by the wider football world I'd speculate) is more telling of where we are as a club. The highpoint of his 11 years was qualifying for the Champions League, albeit with an ill-fated campaign largely scuppered by that crook Collina.< (Actually, the highpoint for me was stuffing the RS 3-0.)

However, in the 11 years prior to his arrival, we only won one trophy – the FA Cup (and had a couple of very near misses in the relegation fight) so there was the marker.

As Patrick (#16) alludes to, our lack of ambition is sobering. The longest serving top flight club with a 137-year or so history. For the last 28 of those years (the last 20% of our entire history) we have won only 1 trophy.

That's why EFC fielding weakened sides in the League Cup really pisses me off. (Guess which side have won that competition the most times if you think it's not worth bothering about).

It's also why our inertia in re-developing GP to bring in more revenue is so infuriatingly typical of our club. (All this new ground stuff is smoke and mirrors.)

Moyes's longevity at EFC (while not without its merits) was simply a symptom of a more deep-rooted malaise at EFC, one that goes back years.

Marketing slogans like 'It's in our DNA' can sadly be read in more ways than I think they are intended.

The final nail in the coffin was his constant whinging about not finding any deep fried Mars Bars in San Sebastian and their total ignorance of the culinary delights of haggis, chips and baked beans swigged!! That was it for the Basques and the end for El Gingerrrr.

David Moyes did good things for our club, no doubt. I believe he was astute in the transfer market and he kept us safe. However, I think he was in awe of what he perceived as bigger clubs. I think he served up, at times, some of the most turgid football I have ever witnessed; he was tactically unimaginative and, for the last few years of his reign, was poor. The way he left was very badly handled and I feel he was disrespectful of our club.

The way he held off on signing his final contract was also poorly done, suggesting greed or waiting for a better offer. He was a hired hand who, in my view, fundamentally did not get Everton.

Martinez, and I have grave reservations about him, seems to get it. He seems to feel blessed to be here.

James, do you believe that Moyes, short of going to Scotland, will ever win a trophy? He will keep you safe, not rock the boat and achieve that most magnificent of balances; keep the fans sweet, keep the chairman sweet and create the illusion that good times are just around the corner.

In my view, his failure in Spain is down to what Eugene and John have brilliantly lampooned.

Our football under Moyes was that of the Championship! What kept us in the league was Premier League players. I never thought he could take us to the next level based on the one style of football.

I was one of his biggest fans based on the money spent on players but the respect he showed us on leaving was appalling. I do think he will do a good job at a club like Blackburn. This is a club with a low budget and low expectations.

Mr Moyes you need to remove your ego and get back to basics of football management that made you a good manager at Preston and Everton.

I just think he stayed too long and now he needs to start over at a lower league club, or do something to get that passion back.

'He (DM) was a hired hand who, in my view, fundamentally did not get Everton. Martinez, and I have grave reservations about him, seems to get it. He seems to feel blessed to be here.'

I don't agree with your comment that DM didn't get us while RM does. I think they're just fundamentally different characters / personalities.

I can't see RM lasting half as long as Moyes did here. I hope he wins some silverware (beyond the Fair Play Award or Manager of The Month for winning 4 on the bounce) and proves me wrong.

The key difference between the two for me on the evidence to date:-

Moyes developed (some) players and the team - (e.g. the 4-5-1 system was successful for a while, Coleman, Carsley, Cahill, Baines, wingback play.)

Can we honestly say that RM is developing players and the team at present? (Admittedly an unfair comparison given different length of tenures but all the evidence we have to go on. Who has improved as a player, aside from perhaps Galloway?)

Regarding RM seeming to be 'blessed' here, he should do having just taken Wigan down. Blessed? He must have gone from atheist to Born Again overnight.

Obviously I hope RM succeeds. But I'm hopeful rather than confident at the moment. While Moyes outstayed his welcome, I was confident rather than hopeful in the first few seasons under him.

The reason being that as much as I have (mainly for comic purposes) portrayed him as a 'dooer' imagination-free Presbyterian, reading the article, my exaggerated version actually didn't seem that far from the reality.

In fact at one point, I almost felt sorry for Davey no-mates, described wandering about the streets of Spain on his Jack, having failed to learn enough Spanish to ask 'Do you sell shortbread?'

Then I remembered the £20 - 30 million we paid him for not getting us relegated and him trying to take Baines and Fellaini for fuck-all... and thought: 'Fuck you, miserable arse.'

We won at OT beating a very very ordinary Man Utd at a time when seemingly everyone was winning there. They were nowhere near top four.

I didn't think TGT's record could get any worse, but Martinez has managed it. His record at the grounds of teams who have finished top 4 is absolutely abysmal.

Frying pan / Fire

We will know after he has played 44 away games against top 4....

44 games against Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool.

I don't disagree with you. I also don't think Moyes was or is the greatest manager out there – I certainly don't want him back.

I do remember feeling (often) that he had brought back some stability and respectability to following Everton for me, which I will always be grateful for.

Maybe I prefer to concentrate on what he did while things were good, before the last 18 months and the way he left.

Moyes gave us 11 years of his career, which should be respected in my view. He worked hard for our club, and whether he left under a cloud or not, is in my view overshadowed by the positive effect he had longer term.

I"m not the type of person who gets hung up on players/managers leaving (how dare they!) Everton when they feel the time is right.

People come and go, it's only us that are the lifers.

He was often followed on his sojourns by the local street urchins of San Sebastian who would holler, "Señor Moyes, Señor Moyes, como estas?" To which old ginger would reply, "Oh aye, nae bad, bonjour kiddos. Viva Espana". Not the cleverest thing to say to the Basques...

The biggest issue perhaps was that this progress halted after six or so years when we hit the glass ceiling of 5th/6th. Many on here bemoaned his ability to push beyond this though his successor shows little of finishing higher. The reality is that there are probably few if any managers who could have had us in the top 4 consistently given the relative resources of the competition.

Moyes was a good organiser, suited to the British game one suspects and to a team with limited resources and expectations.

Surely a shoo-in for Celtic (the easiest manager's job in the world)?

He'd then find someway of bigging up Aberdeen and for sure being on the receiving end of a good thrashing at at least once a season.

As his team progressed, he did start to have a go, We were robbed of victory at OT (Anichebe penalty) Anfield (Distins goal) Arsenal (poxy deflected last gasp equalizer after Pienaar put us in front. We score three at Chelsea, Three at WHL and four at Old Trafford. We also beat teams in the top four – contrary to the silly claims made by people trying to excuse Martinez's shameful record.
Was TGT's record bad? Fucking right it was, but, there were flickers... Martinez has been just plain embarrassing. On 15 occasions he has been taken squads worth around £200M to top six teams and unless we have fallen behind we have hardly mustered a shot worthy of the name.

Moyes was a twat for taking his knife to the gun fights. Martinez is if anything an even bigger twat for bringing his pea shooter.

Pair of twats - frying pan/fire

Link

So that's one win in 53 games away at the 'big 4' does any other club have such a bad record?

One for the stattos, has any club apart from Everton not won an away game at the Emirates, Stamford Bridge or the cabbage patch across the park this century?

Don't see that myself.

Not good reading, that... One win in 53 games. Hopefully Martinez will improve on the last manager's abysmal stats.His record is already better than Moyes's.

It could be a little better to:I recall being at Arsenal a couple of years ago when we absolutely played them off the park. How we didn't come away with the win, I don't know. The best I have seen us play at Arsenal since the 80s side.

He constantly cried he had no money whilst at Goodison, at Man Utd he had the keys to the Bank Of England and still managed to make the Champions of England look second rate.

United & Real Sociedad fans were not as gullible as Evertonians – they didn't fall for his hype and con tricks.

I don't know about Klopp moaning about their fans leaving early, most of our games finish with the stadium only a quarter full. They were even pouring out with 10 minutes to go against Sunderland and we had scored 6 goals.

Joe #112 "United & Real Socieadad fans were not as gullible as Evertonians."

Brian #113 is right - a lost of turgid performances despite attendance figures - I guess we're still gullible.

I remembered that he started the Everton game against Spurs (can't remember at home or away) with Campbell, Radzinksi and Rooney. Often, he would substitute Radzinksi to bring on Rooney.

I agree with most people that after 2009, he kind of stagnated. It could be argued that the board didn't back him with cash to push on.

I would agree with those who feel that he has managed everyone's expectations downwards, such that everyone thinks – including the players – that we are punching above our weight.

Many argue that he stabilized the club, and that we were perennial relegation fodder. To me, apart from 1998 (HK Mark III) and 1999 (Smith's 1st season), we weren't exactly relegation fodder. We were just inconsistent. Smith's team was losing its direction, but we weren't relegation fodder.

In fact, we were still able to stuff teams from time to time. I think it was Smith's 2nd season that we had a few 4-0 or 5-0 scorelines (two of which were against West Ham, I think).

Under Moyes, we probably had the 7-1 victory against Sunderland that we can claim that we have beaten teams resoundingly.

Thus, my thoughts are that Moyes helped to steady the ship, both on the pitch (regular top 10 performances), helped stave off administration, but through the process, gave the team a small club mentality. And it is this mentality that is holding us back.

However, given a preference, I would have to say Moyes put far more into EFC than Martinez ever will.

I don't want Moyes back as he lost the fans and the team in his last 2 years with his dour outlook and contempt when leaving and afterwards.

For us not to get any compensation from Man Utd and have to pay Wigan for this fella was a bitter pill to swallow but then when Moyes went against all his so-called principles and went big time Charlie with his approach for Baines and Fellaini.

Credit to our current manager, yes he has changed our style of play and brought in players to suit that style. Who knows if he will be more successful than our previous manager? What I do know, Ferguson did us a favour, Moyes would still be here now! My only credit to Moyes would be with the limited budget to keep us battling for European competitions for a number of seasons is an achievement.

Our current manager has given the fans belief that we are a big club that can achieve again. I think that aspect was missing from the previous manager. Time will tell!

No I'm not saying Martinez's record is worse than TGT's. The facts, stats and results say that.

I know the members of the ever shrinking Robbie-can-do-no-wrong club will argue against facts all night (they always do) but, contrary to their claims that Martinez has beaten a top four side... he hasn't. Moyes did it on more than one occasion (also contrary to their claims).

Martinez has done the seemingly impossible. he has not only managed a worse record than Moyes, he has dragged it down to such a level we are now talking about the "Sky 9".

Forget the top four. despite having a squad valued at around £200m. Martinez only managed three goals at the top NINE clubs last season. We didn't win any of those games... but then you have to be prepared to get men forward to do that and Martinez will only ever releases the straight jacket if we go behind.

Not only has he gotten worse results, he's even managed to be even more negative. Who knew that was even possible?

Jay Harris ~117 covers this in his first sentence.

"The best, I've seen us play at Arsenal since the eighties" You clearly weren't there a couple of years earlier when Pienaar put us ahead in the snow. That day they were the ones who were relieved to get out of jail with a last-gasp equaliser, not us.

Jay Harris may not have been there. As it was me who posted that, I will answer.

I was there for the game you mention, the Pienaar game. In my opinion, we were far superior in the game Deulofeu scored the equaliser.

"You out Arsenaled Arsenal!" a group of Arsenal fans told us having a pint after the game.

To my mind, 1/9 is better than 0/44. And please note I am talking about away victories against those I define as the Sky 4 (ie, Arsena, Liverpool, Man Utd & Chelsea) and, since it's my OPINION, I can dispense with Man City from that group.

What about the last 20 years of trophy-less seasons... you mean to say the players have been good enough, all we needed was a change of manager!

No, it would not be fair to bracket me in the "Martinez can do no right" squad. I think that squad only exists in your head. Every time someone criticises your hero, you are on here defending him, no matter how legitimate the criticism. I have sang his praises all season especially concerning the way he dealt with the Stones situation.

You see I have no problem with giving him due credit; I call it as I see it and like to think that's a balanced way of doing things.

It's not so much Martinez who troubles me; it's the silly claims made by people whose judgement is clouded by their undying devotion to him. You and your fellow sycophant Paul Andrews have a "one answer fits all subjects" policy. As far as you two are concerned, it's never the boss's fault. Not ever... Don't you think that's a little worrying?

Brian,

Glad to hear you believe in the logic of numbers. At least we can then assume, you will add all the other failures to the nine he accumulated last year alone.

I have to admit I admire a logic that can shoehorn the richest club in the world – one which has won the Premier League twice recently – OUT of the top four, whilst shoe horning IN teams that will do very well to qualify for the Europa League.

Dress it up and twist it any way you want, Martinez has still never beaten a team from the top four away from home.

Which teams do you consider to be the Top 4 and on what logic do you leave Man U out? Because they weren't in the Top 4 on the day the fixture was played?

Well, yes you could follow that line. In that case, if Martinez were to have won at West Ham (if I recall correctly, they were 4th at the point we kicked off against them) would that have counted? Presumably not.

If nothing else, comparing a two-year timeframe against an eleven-year one seems a bit dubious.

I'll give you a chance to show me where this "big improvement" came from. Forget the top four... name me a time when he has won at a ground of a team who finished top six?

The more you make me look, the more I realise just how bad Martinez's away record is. That win over a Man Utd team that finished 7th was the only win Martinez managed at the grounds of teams who finished in the top NINE for the past two seasons.

That'll be one win out of sixteen attempts against some very average teams... some improvement that is!

"I am disappointed to have left Real Sociedad. When I accepted the job as manager of La Real last November, my remit was to avoid relegation and retain the club's La Liga status. We succeeded in attaining that target and finished 12th in the table. I feel that we made significant progress last season; beating Barcelona in front of our home fans was a memorable highlight. Despite some positive performances from our team, results have not gone our way in recent weeks. However, I was confident we would finish in a strong position by the end of the season.

"I made a firm promise to Real Sociedad to honour my contract and it is disappointing not to be able to fulfil this commitment especially when I have turned down a number of job opportunities in recent months. After spending 12 years in the Premier League as manager of Everton and Manchester United, I was keen to take the opportunity to work abroad and have learnt a great deal from the experience.

"I would like to thank the club and the President for giving me the opportunity to manage in Spain, at a club with such a rich history of employing British Managers. I would also like to thank the players, staff and my assistant, Billy McKinlay, for their support and the wonderful people of San Sebastian. It has been a pleasure to work in their beautiful city and immerse myself in their culture. Their warmth and generosity has made me feel very at home over the last year.”