Martinez urges Hodgson to use Barkley's attacking strengths

I was kind of in agreement with what Martinez was saying until then. Unless I'm reading it wrong, he's basically saying Ross is effectively neutered playing in the style his own Everton team practices for large periods of a game?

For most managers, a player like Barkley is a luxury they can not afford and Woy is no exception. He will always go for the dependability of a Milner or a Henderson over the unpredictability of a Barkley or a Vardy. That's why England will never win a major tournament ever again.

Barkley has produced very little at club level recently but has the luxury of being able to get away with it due to so many league or cup games. He can be shielded as a result and there is always the next game. If he goes to the Euros next summer and is invisible for the first two games, as he is prone to be, Hodgson with be pillared for it and England could be out of the tournament.

What Ross needs to do is make it impossible for Hodgson not to pick him. Be the Barkley of two seasons ago, not the one of the last twelve months.

He's clearly a player with talent from what we saw two season's ago and at times earlier this season but there always seems to be something slightly missing from his game, I'm not sure it's consistency, it's more to do with the actual man himself.

Saying that Martinez is the reason why Barkley doesn't like heading the ball or tackling, I'm not so sure, I think that's a bit of both really. Barkley doesn't seem to be that type of personality, the fire in your belly type that we saw in Rooney at that age or Tim Cahill, or dare I say it Gerrard. I'm not convinced Ross will ever really be a leader like those guys were regardless of age or experience.

So what do we do with him?

He's at present our only serious attacking central midfielder so we can only hope, as he doesn't really head, tackle or play enough killer passes, that he does the next best thing and starts firing in more goals. The shooting seems to be his most positive input, and for me that's possibly the main reason he still makes the team at the current moment.

He's coming to an age where soon he should be as complete a player as he'll ever be, so he needs to try stepping up on various to reach his full potential.

My hopes for Barkley this season would be close to, if not actually scoring 10 league goals, more regular assists, more work on his spacial awareness and a better reading of the game.

The baffling thing is Martinez knows this... but still persists. Madness!

Yes, there are players who don't do anything defensively for their teams but they get away with it because, when they receive the ball, they either create or score a lot of goals. Unfortunately Ross doesn't create a lot of goals or score a lot of goals.

There have been signs of more frequent and daring counter-attacking to be fair of late so maybe he will start practising what he preaches a bit more...

It often looks that way during the game, when he appears to have blinkers on. Maybe it will all click for him one day when he realises football is a very simple and easy game to play.

A lot of young footballers are ruined by fools... also known as coaches.

I'm not a Hodgson fan but Barkley has looked a better player for England than for Everton, where he slows everything up by taking far too many touches before deciding what to do.

If Martinez thinks this is wonderful and the lad continues to refuse moving the ball on like Scholes or Alan Ball, I will sink into a deep slumber and never wake up.

I don't like that myself, I much prefer managers to always demand more from his players because, when they start thinking they have made it before they actually have, that's when problems start.

He's also started taking a lot more responsibility in terms of always looking for the ball rather than going absent for periods like he did last season. Yes, he's had the odd poor game, including West Ham last weekend, but no player has a blinder every match. I can't see why people are so keen to have a go at him.

I think every poster on here wants Ross to do well, we are trying to point out the continual errors he is making, it's called constructive criticism, and surely you can see the same mistakes he makes.

There doesn't seem any real improvement in his overall game. We all hope that will eventually come; nobody is against the lad.

Pot, kettle, black.

Has Barkley scored 6 this season??

I can recall three league goals, not sure if he's being credited with the one at Arsenal after the wicked deflection, and a goal at Reading in the Cup!

I can't remember him scoring anymore!?

Until we cherish players with skill and let them play their natural game without constant criticism, this will never change.

This is where the manager comes in; he needs to set the team up around a player like Ross to allow other players to do what he doesn't & compliment him. I think Ross has been pretty good this year and the stats back this up... trouble is, if he isn't scoring 5 goals a match & running rings round everyone, some people say he's rubbish.

I prefer to just count his Everton goals myself especially given one of his international goals came against San Marino, I'd fancy myself to score against them!

I get the point your making though, he's got goals in him Barkley, he just need to become a little more in tune with what's happening around him.

He was effective against Sunderland. And do people remember how he was last season?

If we keep mindlessly criticising one of our own, he's getting nowhere.

Best in what business? Running down blind alleys or shooting into the stands? Barkley is just as likely to do those as score a worldy.

He is still just a kid and heaven help England if they need to depend upon him. One day, he should make a great player but very much a work in progress whose position at Everton shouldn't even be assured let alone England.

I think we are too quick to jump on his mistakes and offer 'constructive criticism' before recognising that he has made a huge improvement on last season in terms of his work rate and decision-making, the two areas of his game I feel he was most lacking in last season.

What really gets to me is comments like Kieran's "Barkley has produced very little at club level recently." – If he continues at his current rate, Barkley will have scored or assisted 20-25 goals for Everton by the end of the season, for me that's a huge contribution.

Yes, as Jim says he has room for improvement in his awareness but he is improving, and even if he doesn't, he's already one of our best players.

He is showing greater maturity now but is still maddeningly inconsistent and it may be that he remains like that through his whole career. The history of football and the English game in particular is littered with mercurial characters capable of great moments but always leaving managers unsure of what they will get from them. Le Tissier, Hoddle, Waddle, Currie and Hudson are a few that spring to mind.

As others have recognised, the risk posed by such players at club level is less than at international level where every match is vital. As a club, we do not really have any option but to hope that Ross continues to improve. England do have other options and Hodgson knows he cannot afford any hit-or-miss gambles in his selection for next summer.

Ross just doesn't seem to have the appetite for a midfield battle and I can understand Hodgson's concern. I can't believe Martinez is so naive as to tell Ross to forget about the defensive side of his game, this just doesn't work in today's game. There are two sides of the 4-second coin and if Martinez puts such great emphasis on this from an attacking perspective, he has to do the same defensively, but then this is where Martinez is weak.

Rodney Marsh played for England 9 times, Le Tissier 8... and even Glen Hoddle, a shoo-in for just about any team, only managed 53. Carlton Palmer had 18 caps... 18 caps. Kendall didn't get one...

For Barkley to fulfil his International and club potential, he has to be played to his strengths and if that means he doesn't have to waste his energy racing back to cover, then so be it. His strength is going forward at pace, carrying the ball but he needs an end product, a player or players who will make runs into space for him to pass to. There is insufficient movement at Everton, hence Stones etc standing with the ball at their feet, arms outstretched looking for some movement up front. Look at how effective Lukaku is when we play him the ball in the way that he wants it.

As Harold says at post (#9), he has to move the ball quicker but he has to have players making the runs to take advantage of a quick ball. Martinez should be coaching that into the team, getting the midfield and forwards to start making quick decisive runs so that Barkley and Deulofeu can use a killer pass.

Oh for a mentality like Leicester have, speed and energy and not a little skill.

This seems to me more about how Martinez feels about Ross than anything, because I honestly think that one of Barkley's biggest problems is he lacks self-belief.

I said on another thread that I don't think the manager could do anymore for Barkley, but I would love to see Deulofeu play central and do well. This might make Ross sit up and take notice, that you need a real attitude, to become one of your team's best players out on the pitch.

Why does he have to become the complete midfielder? Who exactly is the complete midfielder? How many teams have them?

Personally, I'd rather we focused on making his strengths world class instead of focusing on making his weaknesses slightly less poor. Disciplined defensive midfielders are ten a penny; Ross Barkley is a rarity.

To me Everton has about 5-6 real talents and Barkley is one of them. He's just about to turn 22, is only in his third full EPL season. Of course he's inconsistent and I'm sure he's working on it. The #10 position is the hardest on-field position to play. He has accepted the burden to carry the attack in the middle of the field which is big at his age, for club and country.

As far as his defense goes, yeah it's middling but what makes Barkley a talent is his desire to take on people, and pace and strength in the middle of the field. We Americans would commit crimes to have a talent like that to develop and I see very few Englishman with those skills. Give him time. He's improving.

I totally agree with those posts. And also Dave (#8) & Harold (#9), you two also.

Just a question, Dave: who was the player that said Barkley hasn't got a footballing brain? I said the same thing in another post after the West Ham game and also said he doesn't have that intelligence either when it comes to seeing and picking out passes and also made the point Harold did about Barkley slowing the game down, especially when we attack, and got told to have a word with myself! It's good to know I'm not the only one to see all this.

But I agree with the other posts who make the point that it is down to the coaching staff to work on this, work on the parts of his game that aren't great to make him a more rounded and better player.

I see a lot of people saying 'well we don't need Ross to track back, make headers or tackles. As long as he keeps on doing the business in attack...', but he doesn't always, does he?! You see, players like Silva at Man City, you can forgive him for not getting back, not that he doesn't, but he doesn't like to put a foot in like our Ross but he does the business in the final third every week without fail nearly, whether that's creating a lot of goals or scoring?!

Yet for me, Barkley still doesn't do enough in that final third. He's got to start being more creative and seeing the bigger picture up there for me and get himself in to the box more and on the end of things. Bobby ought to give the lad videos of Beardsley to watch, he had a bit of everything, great spacial awareness, could dribble with the ball and beat men, create, score worldy's and tap ins and he got into the box and didn't give up on things.

Surely he should be learning from things like this and cutting it out, not doing it so much! And a lot of the errors you see him make, are unforced aswell.

We had Rooney come through and play for us at 16 and I can't remember him making many mistakes, if any?! At that age, his passing, wether it be long or short, through on goal, was on point. He saw a picture in his head of how things could develope going forward before most and had a great footballing brain and intelligence.

Tbf, you've either got it or you haven't. And it's not something you can coach either but you can educate players and broaden their horizons to game play, certain situations and for them to pick the right option at the right time and try and improve and fine tune that part of their game as much as you can.

The list of exceptional midfielders is personal opinion. Ross has the potential to be added to the list in the future and why wouldn't both we and he want to improve himself?

Exceptional, complete, midfielders can dominate games and the only way to dominate a game is to be at its centre when your team has the ball but also when it doesn't. Gascogne in his pomp did this, Zidane, Keane, Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard, Messi all get stuck in when their team don't have the ball. I don't mean they were all great tacklers but they had attitude and presence and influenced play even when their team didn't have the ball.

Ross is still very young but I would hate that his development was curtailed by a manager who couldn't help him develop the weaknesses in his game.

Mr Martinez talks as though everything is perfect but he must know it isn't. No-one makes runs like Ramsey, Ramirez, Sanchez, Lampard etc. Even McCarthy ought to try it now and again but, let's face it, we don't know his instructions. Cleverly definitely does it but might need someone like Gibson to pick him out. Barkley has all the tools but is often more concerned with getting a shot in.

Everyone knows Barkley has wonderful control of a football. He can do things which take the breath away. In the last England game, he went past players as if they weren't there. Amazing stuff. Felt good being an Evertonian but I was wishing he would do that for us. Instead of being critical, maybe Martinez should ask Hodgson how he gets Ross to perform in such a dynamic manner. I'm beginning to wonder about our boss. I really am.

Ross simply needs a moving ball to run onto 10 yards outside their box, it's as simple as that, he will do the rest and create an opportunity, no complicated tactical genius required!!

As for the age point, setting aside the fact that breakthrough age has been going up across the whole League, Barkley missed a lot more time in his late teens through injury than Rooney did, which has held him back.

As for 'how much time do we give him to keep on doing this?' – don't you think he's improved a lot this season, as you can see from his goals and his assists return (not to mention his workrate)?

There seems to be a big divide between people who recognise that Barkley has actually come on a long way and had overall a very good start to the season, and people who are making the same criticisms of him as last season despite the fact he has addressed lots of the issues in his game.

Michael (#28), a good positive post, but what I would kill for is Ross Barkley continuously trying to do the things you talk about. His manager praises him to the heavens, he's playing for his boyhood club... what is there to worry about?

Nobody plays well every week, but it shouldn't be for the want of trying, to do the things you're good at. JUST KEEP GETTING ON THE BALL. That's how he will develop to me.

Credit too for Marti­nez for moving on from purely possession-based football.

"If he improves his weaknesses he will improve our team and make us more successful."

Andy, as I'm sure you remember, many Continental and South American players were criticised in GB in the past for being one-footed, ie, having great ability in one foot, but the other one was just for standing on. Their attitude was to make their best foot as good as it could be and not waste time trying to make the other foot anything other than the standing foot.

I believe it's still the philosophy that prevails. Why else would players try and hit balls with the outside of their foot, like Lukaku did for Kone, rather than the inside of what might be considered the correct foot to make the pass?

I would sooner Barkley be a tremendous No 10 than someone like McCarthy who can run around for 90 minutes but do eff-all with the ball. Let him use his energy for that electric burst of pace and great shot at goal. I don't think his large frame is that well engineered for the frenetic 90 minutes of all out-action.

Much of your post, though, is spot on.

Exactly what I thought!

The other week, back to Barkley, we were 5-2 up against Sunderland and Ross had the chance to really show his undoubted ability but he spent most of that time taking part in the sequence of passes, someone said it was eighty, and Ross must have played thirty of those passes, most of them three- and four-yard passes... a waste of time (for me); he's better than that.

England bore me, Ross could play a blinder for 89 minutes score a hat-trick but give the ball away in injury time and that would be all Roy could talk about in his press conference. Alternatively he could come on in the 89th minute with the team losing 5-0 and still it would be his fault.

Roy has no idea what to do with players like Ross and Raheem but give him the likes of the antiquated Kane and Milner and he'll cream his britches.

In saying that, Martinez should shut up and stop telling the England manager what to do; not that I'm a Hodgson fan. His comment makes no sense anyway as he's describing the exact way we play. Barkley should also not constantly have his arse kissed and be told he's the greatest. A lot of talent, yes... but a long way to go to get to the finished article.

The likes of Stones, Barkley, Deulofeu, even Lukaku should just be allowed to play and get on with it on the pitch, learn the game week by week. The level of expectation is far too high for these players and the manager really should play these down and take the players out of the spotlight but we know he won't.

Ask Martinez about any of our players and you'd think they were all world beaters...

I love Ross's abilities. I don't care if Ross doesn't tackle. I do care that he ambles back into midfield once we've lost the ball, and never gets / keeps goal-side of an opposing player (you DON'T have to tackle, just jockey and limit options). In doing that he drags into our midfield one more of their players who he could otherwise keep occupied in their own defensive duties if he just stayed further forward. He achieves next to nothing coming back.

Ross does some simple things well but he does some simple things poorly, like many of our (and other clubs') players.

However, he also does some amazing stuff.

So room for improvement then.

I expect it's a confidence thing as well!

I think that's the problem Hodgson has; he likes to set his teams up regimental and alas Barkley will fall short. He will only become a regular if he gets a settled midfield role at Everton.

I do believe he is a central midfielder in the making but, if he plays like he did against West Ham, he will have to wait a long time... just my opinion.

Clough kept his praises simple, but if it came from him it was sincere and it was coming from someone who knew the game.

Nobody can take Martinez's complements seriously as they come too often to be sincere, they are just soundbites.

Let's leave Ross alone to do his thing or we could go back to the Moyes days when on numerous occasions he fielded teams with no recognized strikers. Ross has abilities that not many players posses, lets let him develop and stop criticising his every mistake.

As someone once said, "Show me someone who never makes a mistake and I will show you someone who does nothing." Enough said.

He produces way too little creatively to be allowed not to try to defend and he is, to everyone saying how young he is, 21 years old. By that age, good international footballers are making eye-catching, game-changing performances 'most every time they take the field.

Unfortunately I just wonder whether Ross has got the know-how, arrogance or cussedness to shine as every last one of us hopes.

It's a tough role to master hence why Gerrard and Lampard progressed much older than the younger Rooney.

Barkley will come very good, he just needs time.

I'm with John Daley, 100%.

Such as?

I'm no fan of Martinez and I have no respect for his coaching system. Whether or not Ross, who to me unfortunately seems very very impressionable, takes too much notice of "instructions" or whatever, he really needs to personally get a grip, as young as he is. With the ball control etc etc at his disposal he should, if he has a football brain, be the very first name on an England team sheet.

Unfortunately though, most of us are surprised he's one of the names on ours. Perhaps "Nice Lad" is no sort of pre-requisite for "Star Player". I truly hope I'm wrong. Over to you, Ross... and just tell the coaches to fuck off.

He disappoints too often and has been built up far too early by all and sundry which is a common occurrence especially with the media nowadays. Ross is an above average player with a lot of natural physical ability but to my mind seems destined to lack that extra spark that would elevate to a higher level.

Hope I'm wrong mind you, but that's the way it looks to me.

We were happy to think maybe he was the Number 10 we needed and might have saved a fortune unwittingly.
Another few games and it's the Barkley of last season. Pointless, slow and indecisive.

It's probably somewhere in between. He did start better than he has been playing recently. His last really good performance was for England.

Barkley running with the ball makes me nervous as the end product often does fall down as he takes it too far before trying the pass. I referred to this prancing with the ball waiting for something to happen even during his purple patch and it seemed to be getting worse each game.

Barkley is best moving the ball around and spraying it. He can do it, I'm just not sure how he is being managed.

The hype behind any English players including Stones is ridiculous. I followed Rooney when he went to united. He knew who he was going to pass to even before he received the ball.

Ross looks like he has to remember all the information given by the coaching staff and his natural game has suffered. Martinez trying to put square pegs again.

Know your strengths and weaknesses.

Build on strengths, eradicate weaknesses, improve where you're average and you have a worldy...

I get that he had a triple leg break and that as a youngster and he missed out on a lot of coaching but I'd imagine at that age you don't really learn individual defensive shape and discipline and where to be on the pitch when your team doesn't have the ball?!

And yeah, Barkley's stats have improved this year, but do I see him performing better, at the moment? No. At the start of the season he was picking up but I think his form has dipped since then and his work rate is just the same. He doesn't get back and help out enough defensively, he doesn't track runners or close down, backs out of tackles but we all agree that he's not great at that side of the game and we all agree he needs to learn that side of the game to become a more rounded and better player!

If I'm being honest, I think because obviously a lot of you are scousers and he's one of your own and you all think a lot of him, it can cloud your judgement on him and you don't see a lot of wrong in him – not everyone, but a lot of you. I'm not a local and aren't that attached as you lot are and I can see the good and bad in him and when I do highlight his efficiencies, a lot, like you, come out and fight his corner and only want to talk about the good in him.

I'm not picking on the lad or digging him out, all I'm doing his highlighting the things I don't like in his game and what I think either needs stamping out or improving if he his to become a better player. I agree, he has so far improved his goal scoring, assists and chances created stats and good on him, he needed to, and long may it continue, but I just feel there's other parts to his game that he needs to step up at.

There was a moment in that passage of play where, in just one area of the pitch he just kept playing it and playing it between him and Rom for like 5 or 6 passes and I thought, what's he doing? Why doesn't he look left and look to spread the play and open the game up?

That's another thing of his I hate. He does it all the time, things like that that slow the game down and allow the other teams to get back and set up defensively. A player with a footballing brain and intelligence doesn't play like that, they look to make the pitch big, spread the play and open up gaps to then play into and exploit. It's not rocket science!

And fair play to you mate if you don't want to give names but whoever he was, I agree with him on that point.

We are lucky to have paid a relative pittance for three decent Premier League players who could get even better.

I think Ross is over-hyped, big-time. That's not his fault, but he's now 21, the same age as Alan Ball when he was the Man of the Match in the 1966 final. And don't tell me Ball had it easier in his day. He played to the limit of his ability, always, as did Rooney and as should any professional.

Rooney, Ball, Best and other greats were not "forces of nature" but they were in love with football from the moment they could stand and spent every waking moment playing it. Their instincts developed from that. They practised what they weren't good at and only then did they achieve the recognition they earned by consistently excellent performances.

The fact is, Ross doesn't seem to me to have similar instincts at all. And if anyone accuses me of being unfair in comparing him to Rooney, Ball and Best, I'm not comparing him in any way because not only is he nowhere near their levels, right now he's bloody lucky to still be in our team.

He can also shut me up big time by putting in performances we've seen so very, very few glimpses of, which caused all the hype in the first place. Otherwise he'll stay put, being paid a fortune for not doing very well and never seemingly trying to improve.

When we do break fast (often thanks to Ross's ability), the evidence would suggest that this is in spite of RM's tactics/instruction as for 95% of the time we slow the play down with our 'composure' on the ball, play sideways and backwards, (very) slowly building pressure. So, when Ross does get the ball, he's 5 yards outside their box with their entire team between him and the goal.

Then, most Evertonians seem to get frustrated at Ross's inability to 'do something special' and make the difference, with the ball more often than not going backwards again (probably to our keeper) or being lost to the other team without even an attempt on goal to show for all that possession. Very, very frustrating and not enjoyable to watch IMO.

The pass he put in for Walcott's goal was not produced by someone without a football brain and I look back to a few of his performances a couple of years ago which were remarkable for someone of any age - against Swansea and Arsenal away in particular (in the latter game he dominated, including one stunning back heel for Pienaar which was a piece of art, and he generally made Wilshere look a plodder). People like Scholes, Carragher and Redknapp are not fools and have all hailed him as specially gifted.

But he is too often paralysed by indecision which we've all tried to analyse on here. I think it's a deep-seated confidence problem which occurs when he has too much time too think and he needs coaching to deal with that, including possibly from a sports psychologist.

He's a major frustration for much of the time but I for one am sticking with him because I think he's a fantastic talent and when it works for him it's exhilarating to watch. If he gets a measure of consistency then Everton as a team will be improved enormously and that is a chance still worth waiting for.