Barkley plays but England beaten by Spain

If Ross wants to play for his country, then he should be allowed as it will make him happy and a happy Ross is good for Everton.

Hope I'm wrong.

Stones will play on Tuesday to give the better, more 'important' players a breather as they switch their focus to their club teams.

As for Ross, how can you have three luxury players in the same midfield? It's nonsense! I don't think Hodgson fancies the lad and I can't see Ross being involved in France next summer, whether he plays well or not.

Pretty mixed night for all of our players: Coleman did well defensively, but McCarthy was anonymous for the Irish, McGeady only got a brief run-out, but the fact that O'Neill fancies that numbskull McClean in front of McGeady speaks volumes.

Rom was subbed after about an hour and Mirallas got a brief run-out for Belgium in their 3-1 victory over Italy. Hopefully they can all return to Goodison free from injury and put all their energy into playing for Everton at least until the madness of the January window disrupts everything again.

Being unbeaten in the qualifiers means nothing when you're only beating third-rate teams. England are second-rate behind the top teams, and always will be. Football has moved on... we haven't.

I still believe as well that there's a "clique" in the England setup where some players consider themselves a cut above others and basically ignore the runs of certain players and either take the ball on themselves or look for other members of the clique... and as for Hodgson!!!!!

Sterling was the one that provided poor service, and let his man go for the goal.

Barkley does not have the confidence to run with the ball and mainly just played easy short passes. He is not exciting and has not improved IMO.

As for Ross, another typical performance from him; 2 decent passes, 2 decent runs with poor shots – rubbish and lazy other wise. He watches opponents stroll by effortlessly – just like so many games he appears in for us. Way over-hyped – so I want him to prove me wrong, but I know he won't.

In England only 36% of players are English, compared to Holland 64% home-grown, Spain 62%, France 58%, Germany 50%, and Italy 48%.

I think we have some excellent players, including Ross, but they are shackled and suffocated by an idiot.

Same for England. For all the talk of EPL – and I watch almost every televised game – there are not many great English players. We have more in common in terms of football than we think.

Phil Jones starts ahead of Stones....

Cuckoo.

Hodgson is definitely a 'favourites' man. Why else pick Delph, with about an hour's football all season, or Jones ahead of Stones? The centre backs both seemed unable to clear their lines effectively, and Marshall was crap at right back.

The midfield was effectively static and did little to support Kane and Barkley. Until we have a manager who is prepared to inject some pace and urgency into the team, England will continue to remain a second rate international team. Claudio Ranieri, anyone?

As for Ross, the boy has talent, but he lacks the arrogance and confidence to fulfill his huge potential; I'm just not sure a kick up the ass would do him any good. I actually see him going the way of Rodwell. Really hope I'm wrong.

Barkley was his usual Everton self: one or two moments of brilliance with inconsistent end product and little defensive grit. He looked better than Sterling and Lallana at any rate.

Hodgson should be settling on his team now. At the very least, he should play Stones and Smalling in every game as they are clearly our best CB combination and need time together.

One thing we learnt last night is that Roy, and most of his players, are totally out of their depth at this level.

He looked bright to me. Consistency for a young players is the name of the game, and being creative is a harder ask. Lukaku, Deulofeu and Stones are getting it, let's hope Barkley is next on the uptake.

He is a luxury player that needs to be played right up the pitch where he can do damage to the other team, rather than his defence. His idea of playing striker doesn't look so crazy to me.

Personally, I wish we'd persist and get thoroughly fucking good at the 'English model'. Two flying wingers delivering crosses to an aerial beast and a top quality poacher. I know it's unfashionable... but it's effective and exciting. And we're shit at everything else so let's at least give it a shot.

Barkley doesn't close down or tackle which does make him look lazy... but that's clearly not his game. It's not like we paid £38 million for him and he is one of us – he'll get enough abuse from Ingerlund supporters without us putting the boot in, so let'sgive him some support.

Toward the end of the first half, England didn't look too atrocious. I actually quite like Jones; along with Dier, he is the only one that provides any bite in what is otherwise a pretty lightweight team.

We had more shots as you say, but only one, late on by Kane, was any threat to the goal. Based on the rest, we could have had a 100 shots and Casillas could still have been able to have a night off.

Yes, our more technically gifted players were missing, so it was up to Hodgson to choose a system to play to our strengths. Yes, Phil, I'm with you.

It's the same with England and has been for years. Very good players (by our standards) get called up and are drawn into the morass of absolute crap. Ronaldo would struggle in this England team as well and for a young lad like Ross, with a lot of promise, playing for England could and probably will be a wholly negative experience.

It's far too simplistic too to blame the number of foreigners in the EPL. That's not the problem. The problem starts much earlier than that with dinosaur coaches and antiquated ideas of how the game should be played and how players should play it. It's obvious even when watching kids playing from the Sunday Leagues to the Academies. They're discouraged from trying things, urged to get shut of the ball quickly, scolded if they lose the ball, told to hoof out of danger areas and they end up playing the game in fear rather than enjoying it.

There are no genetic or congenital reasons why British human beings can't play the game as effectively and skillfully as German, French or Spanish human beings. There is nothing that makes it impossible for an English 8-year-old to play the game to the same standard as a Spanish 8-year-old when they grow up. So what is it that prevents them from doing so?

The way they are coached and managed is the answer and it is this that the FA needs to confront, not the number of 'foreigners' in the English game.

The richest league in the world is occupied by players from all over the world and, not being xenophobic, it has got to impact on the players turning out for the home teams if they are not getting starts in the Premier League.

As an aside, how could anyone pay the kind of money for Sterling!!! He really is poor.

I thought it was funny that the commentators were yearning for Milner and Henderson to return; we never learn, do we? We need more players like Barkley and Wilshere who can do the unexpected, not dogs of war like Henderson and Milner who offer sod all in midfield apart from blood, sweat and tears.

Get Hoddle back as manager and dump the triers; football has moved on, England hasn't.

I watched the whole 90 minutes live with some very partisan Brazilians and, of course, kept a particular eye on our man.

It's a solid endorsement from his national manager that he was selected for the Argentina - Brazil World Cup Qualifier because, make no mistake about it, this game has an edge and importance to it equal to any rivalry in world football.

Now Ramiro Funes Mori has impressed me in his short Everton career to date and, if anything, he played better last night in a red-hot international game than I have seen him play for the Blues.

He did not look out of place at all on such a big stage. 'Out of place' is an apt phrase, in fact, because positionally he was sound throughout the game. Playing on the left as he does, he didn't have to deal so much with Neymar, but rather two Santos players, Ricardo and Lucas Lima, who got no change from him. Lima scored the Brazilian equaliser in their best move of the match, but Ramiro was in no way culpable.

He also dealt with Brazil's best player on the night who raided down his flank from midfield, Chelsea's Willian. His decision-making was spot-on on nearly every occasion. Playing the ball short through midfield when appropriate, or back to the keeper, or simply wellying it away when under pressure. He didn't back down when players wanted to mix it with him.

He put in a couple of fine blocks within his own penalty area and was a threat at corners and free kicks. His possible highlight of the game was when he rapidly advanced to nick a through ball off the attacker's toe just inside his own half and made quick inroads into the Brazilian half. He played a sharp one-two with the player on the left flank then almost instantly put in another player further forward on the left flank whilst charging forward himself into the Brazilian penalty area. Alas, the delivery didn't arrive but, in the '4 seconds transition' Roberto mentioned in relation to Ross earlier this week, Ramiro caused momentary chaos at the heart of the Brazilian defence, single-handedly turning defence into attack.

As for the two teams, Argentina were way better than Brazil in the 1st half, but Brazil had the better of the 2nd half and deserved their draw. It's been a stuttering campaign for both sides so far. Argentina lost their first two qualifiers and this draw represents their first point in the campaign thus far. Brazil also lost their first game, won the second and now will be content with this draw in Buenos Aires.

Oh! And by way of comparison, the world's most expensive defender David Luiz was woefully out of position for the Argie's goal, then went flying in with reckless tackles to earn two yellow cards and a red in the 87th and 88th minute.

Ramiro cost a tenth of David Luiz's accumulated transfer fees. At the age and development he is, I would happily have Ramiro over the flamboyant Luiz any day...

Meanwhile this dinosaur continues to neglect the best ball-playing centre-half in a generation for oafs like Phil Jones! There are too many things wrong with the English international set up to list but that one leaps out.

Funes Mori was very solid in the Clasico, Neymar pretty much shackled. Which is impressive!

It gives me a good feeling to know Everton got the jump on everyone else in Europe. With the way Funes Mori is playing for Argentina, Everton would probably not be able to get him next summer. Kudos!

Two foreign coaches, and a man from the dark ages have given us nothing, but it starts when we are kids. If the football is not cancelled tomorrow, go to any park in the country and watch kids aged six onwards trying to play football in the mud.

We now have academies for the elite, but too many of them seem more about today, rather than a long term development plan.

Barkley, worries me though, because he has got to believe in himself like Martinez does, otherwise he will never make it right to the top.

Equator top of the group after beating Uruguay the other night, they are hard to beat at home up in the mountains!

Roy Hodgson is totally to blame for last night's dross along with his backroom staff. Why oh why did we play into Spain's hands defending from the halfway line, giving them too much time on the ball? It was bloody disgraceful, the amount of time we let them have; no pressing – and all that comes from a rubbish manager. I bloody despair!

I think I could get a game for England at this present time. I have stated above why I don't want him playing... oh, and on last week's performance (and I was not the only one), I thought he looked like a Championship player.

Many of his team-mates were woeful. Delph looked rusty and a bit lost, Sterling kept giving the ball away. Lallana was out of his depth and Ali was so bad I found it hard to believe he was wearing an England shirt. A lad so highly rated by pundits that they were calling for him to start in the next game. Spurs fans no doubt. On last night's showing he would fare better back at the MK Dons.

One thing was very noticeable. Spain's front 5 worked a whole lot harder than our front 5. They gave our defence no time to settle right from the kickoff. The pressed and harried like hungry ferrets, preventing any chance of an England buildup from the back. Mourinho, Klopp, Wenger, Van Gaal and one or two other Premier League managers urge their players to defend high like this but Martinez would be fighting a losing battle with our lads. It's just not their game.

10 qualifying games plus friendlies and Hodgson doesn't even know his best XI. Neither do I.

Worryingly, they suffered a 2-0 home defeat to Ecuador in their opening game, so not the best of starts by the World Cup finalists. No doubt they'll secure one of the qualifying spots, but they have work to do.

Brazil, as Andrew mentioned @42, don't look a cohesive unit at all and other than Neymar (and Willian, who I like a lot) there is a surprising dearth of real skill and talent in the side.

Like Andrew, I'm not sure giving Dunga a second stab as the coach is the best solution. But then, if you haven't got the talent to play with...

What are people trying to say here? That, when we had over 50% of English players, we were good??? RUBBISH!!! We have been bad as a nation because coaching in this country has not moved on.

I can't have the "too many foreigners" thing because, if Everton only had Ross in the team who was English, he would still get trained the same way as all the other players; that goes for Arsenal, Man Utd and all the other teams. Coach better and we will play better as a national team.

By the way, most of that Spanish team play for Chelsea: Pedro, Costa, Fabregas, Azpilicueta... and they are playing shit in the Premier League – it's all about the coaching and being brave.

Like Everton, the England manager has players who will not be dropped, regardless of form, and there is a clique who decide who they will try to make look good, and those who they will ignore.

England's problems start at the top, by picking people like Hodgson to manage a national side who is unable to suit the style he wants to the players at his disposal.

So far, the answer has to be a very resounding No!

Last night was very typical Ross Barkley: some lovely neat touches and turns but too often bugger all at the end of it, half-hearted in pressing opponents, and basically (as he does a lot in the blue of Everton) he drifts through a game threatening but failing to take the game by the scruff.

He's not alone in this current England team: contrast this bunch of non-entity characters with even the crop of Terry Venables's squad of Euro 96, packed with big leaders and quality players. This current England squad is one of the meekest and poorest I've seen.

The problem with Barkley is nobody seems to know what he offers on a regular basis and which system would suit him best; not a good position to be in for any player, especially so for a player trying to make his way in the game. It would be a real shame if the pressure of playing at this level is too much for the lad and if it is more down to his nature rather than his ability.

If I had any advice for him, it would be keep things simple and try and enjoy playing the game; the ability will flow from there.

Could Barkley make a through-ball pass like the ones Geri did? I don't think so. He has his moments but they a few and far between.

I also think our young players are promoted to England's first team far too fast. Sterling is rubbish but he gets away with it in a Man City side full of top players that can carry him. Barkley simply doesn't do enough.

Why was Alli even on the bench? Another pundit flavour of the month. It will be Villa's Jack Grealish next or Leicester's Jamie Vardy. Have a purple patch and you're good enough for England.

The fact is that not one of the current England side would make it into the current Spain side but all the Spain players would make it into England's side, including the manager. Half of the Spain squad plays in this country for our top clubs but none of our players are in Spain playing for their top clubs because they are not interested in them.

Can anyone ever see Barkley playing for Real Madrid or Barcelona? Not while his backside points at the ground. Yet if Deulofeu carries on like he has this season he certainly will, worse luck!

The EPL might be the richest league in the world but, in terms of producing quality England internationals, it's far from the best.

As much as I don't like admitting it, Gerrard had skill, he could hit pinpoint passes and free-kicks on a sixpence, that alone takes a certain skill. If your talking about Barkley being skillful because he does the odd step-over or drag-back then to me, unless there's something at the end of it or your Lionel Messi, then you just look pretty much like a fanny merchant!

James McFadden had skill, he scored goals that Pele would have been proud of, but nobody was talking him up to be some 50 million-pound saviour because we knew his limitations.

Many players look skilful, but those who make it have far more strings to their bow than just quick feet, it takes a certain attitude, personality to get to the highest level, this is one of the other reasons, along with injury, why Jack Rodwell totally disappeared from the scene.

It was well known, from extracts I've read, that Rodwell thought he had made it before he had.

I don't know if Barkley will really reach the heights that is expected of him but he's 22 next month, by the time he's 25 he's likely to not really get any better after that age, he may be more experienced but try and tell me that Wayne Rooney, Steven Gerrard or Frank Lampard were were or are more dynamic at the age of 30 plus than in their early-mid 20s?

The most productive years of these players and the best years were in their 20 and Ross Barkley will be the same, yes he has time, but we'll know before too long if he's really going to be that great, and you can't keep blaming managers forever.

Is Ross any good? Will he be world-class? I don't know but is he any worse than his peers in the England team? Is he any poorer to other players of a similar age in other teams?

Is it fair to expect him to be Messi or Gerrard at the age of 22? Are there any other clubs apart from our neighbours who Everton should be compared to?

It wasn't too long ago that the same, over the top, hysteria was applied to another future world wonder boy by the media by name,Jack Rodwell and where is he now?? In Spain, England were like cart horses against thoroughbreds, and only Jones and Hart stood out, and so it goes.

Link

Until Hodgson realises this and let's him get the ball in our own half, with all the accompanying risks that he takes, we are never going to see the best of Barkley.

Played for us from 2008, coming on in the 2009 FA Cup Final for Tony Hibbert. Always looked pretty decent but had a lot of injuries at the time. Think he left for Blackburn after one season.

I've read Everton's profile on Jacobsen and I think the reason he played better in the second half of the Cup Final against Chelsea was because Cahill went wide right wing to give him better cover than Osman and he stopped the Chelsea left back from going forward too much.

Cole had his hands full from marking Tim as well.

Then you had a tropically disease-ridden Hibbo in long sleeves looking like he was at death's door, flayed by Florent Malouda time after time.

Cheers Moyesie!

As for Barkley, we've probably said it all before. I think he is potentially a remarkable player and I desperately want him to fulfil his gifts for England and our club. I agree, however, with those who worry about his mental strength. Let's all hope he can gather himself in a way that the very capable but much less talented Rodwell could not.

I know he needs a lot more consistency and a combative edge would be nice, but I can't believe people aren't thrilled at times by what the lad can do. That turn and run was something to get people off their seats and similar to stuff we have seen dozens of times before from him, whereas Rodwell must have produced a handful of moments at most in his whole career to date.

IMO, If he can stay injury free, then Phil Jones is a better all round centre-back than Cahill or Smalling. I think Stones and Jones would make an interesting and complementary partnership.

He's become a favourite of mine, too, and looks every inch an international defender, and looked really confident going forward. Selection headaches ahead for Roberto, I think...

To suggest he was somehow taking it easy and saving himself for the next blues game is a pretty poor excuse.

He has to be massively disappointed with his own performance. At 22 he's no longer just a kid but very near the finished product.

I've mentioned on here before that I wouldn't mind seeing Stones play just in front of Jags and Funes Mori as a sort of defensive midfielder instead of Barry or McCarthy. He has the ability and class to take the ball forward, something he does most games, and has the brain to hit a killer forward pass.

I think Lukaku would benefit from that as we've seen with Deulofeu making goals for him, and would allow Deulofeu to stay out wide without compromising our defensive set up, in fact it would probably strengthen it. Christ, it needs strengthening. Any other ToffeeWebbers have thoughts on that?

I will keep on saying it until I am blue in the face, you don't know what you have until you lose it. Everyone ITK drools over Ross but a group of Evertonians feel like he doesn't match up to their incredibly high standards and think it might be better to take the money and run. The shortsightedness shown by some is breathtaking when it comes to spotting talent.

What were you saying about Lukaku not so long ago? Lazy? Useless? Some were having a go at Geri at the start of the season but now he's like the second coming almost. McCarthy is another one who's now considered rubbish and Coleman seems to be fast approaching this category as well. Stones was criticised for not coming back and performing at 1000% etc..... Get my drift? Take a step back, take a deep breath and think before writing.

I suspect we shall still be asking the same questions about Ross in three years time although I think Woy will lose his patience with him before Martinez.

Ross is an Evertonian living out all our dreams! He has many more plus points than negatives, you don't really see him courting publicity and he seems like a decent young man.

He is also capable of very good performances that affect big matches! I for one will be supporting him and hoping he can find the level of consistency we all crave.

Stones, McCarthy, Lukaku and Barkley is a great spine to a team going forward!

At best he occasionally provides an energetic presence with flashes of brilliance, those performances are very few and far between. Certainty not enough to hail him as one of Europe's elite.

The best players have an in-built mental savvy and good positional awareness plus leadership qualities that Ross just doesn't possess.

Spain's 'tippy tappy' is effective because of their determination, workrate and organisation off the ball. That's the reason why Everton and England don't have the impact we'd like. Plenty of skill, not enough attitude.

I can't accept that he never puts in a challenge, He always ducks out of having to make a challenge, and yes I know he had a triple leg-break when he was younger.

Compare his involvement in that game before he was subbed with what we often see from him now. In that game, though only 18, he was demanding possession, he was driving forward trying to create things, and he was making challenges.

Moyes then stopped selecting him to start games. He was even not giving him match time on the albeit odd occasions when we were winning games by handsome margins eg Scunthorpe away in the cup. In my mind, that sort of treatment greatly affected his confidence as well as his general footballing development.

Going back to the game, the result and woeful performance were entirely down to Roy's cowardly tactics and strategy. The man is a fucking dinosaur who hasn't got a clue how to set up his teams against the best and doesn't know how to use his more skilful players, eg, Jack Wilshere playing as a defensive midfielder, ffs!! Get rid of him after the Euros and get someone in whom at least understands modern football and players – not this gormless twat!!

Some people behave like the press – world beater one day; useless the next week. For goodness sake, let's be sensible. The young players (Ross, Geri, Rom, Stones) all have real talent and should be encouraged and supported – let's cut out the groaning at Goodison.

England will never win a bean until this is recognised. The Germans understood this, changed their attitude and then subsequently won the World Cup? We (the nation) on the other hand are so obsessed (arrogant?) with the idea that we only need to find the right man to bring together all this talent (coughs under breath) that we keep deluding ourselves.

We have had the talent, and still do, but we have also had cowardly (Sven, Capello, McClaren) and useless (Keegan, Turnip Head, Roy) managers who haven't got a clue how to get the best out of them!!

It was plain to see, on Friday, that there was no clear plan against Spain. The players didn't know whether to press or stay deep and so the midfield players looked completely lost. That's the manager's job and he failed miserably.

That team would beat most teams in the world.

You are probably right but that team wouldn't beat France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Portugal, Italy or most South American teams. In fact it wouldn't beat anyone who matters in World Football.

Our players just lack that something which the best teams seem to have. I'm no expert but I reckon it must be at least partly down to how we make our youngsters compete in matches from a very early age.

Forget that Woy managed the RS! I don't agree with all his ideas either. However, he isn't the one causing the so-limited pool of talent to chose from – it's the people at the FA and those in charge of the Premier League, standing idly by allowing the number of English players at clubs to diminish so drastically since 1992. One result is that, when an English player with good ability comes along (eg, Ross Barkley, Jack Rodwell before him) he gets wildly over-hyped.

Like every Evertonian, I want Ross to be a great player for Everton, but watching him week after week I just don't see anywhere near enough evidence to suggest he will.

Now we see another very young English player, Lingard, drafted into the squad! The last game ended with Ali and Dyer on the pitch – what experience and talent they have – but where were the proven alternatives?

Re your team of world-beaters, how do Wilshere & Walcott get in? They're hardly ever fit for a month!

Barry is well past his best, but reality is that he would have improved the England midfield against Spain! It all tells a sad story doesn't it about the wealth of English talent available.

From the ages of six and seven they play in leagues that are very intense in terms of winning cups; winning is everything. To me, winning is the least part of football at that age... learning to play, control, passing, tackling, dribbling and – most important – enjoying the game.

Football (playing) is brilliant if you are enjoying playing; listening to your parents, coaches and managers screaming at you incessantly throughout the game is not how young players should have to face every Saturday and Sunday and midweek at the start and end of every season.

Cups and too much competition to win is spoiling most young players.

Lallana was so poor it was untrue – all he did, especially in the first half, was lose the ball or misplace his pass, and yet he stays on and no-one commentating sees fit to point out the obvious. But then he does play for Liverpool, doesn't he?

Ali and Dier basically are getting in the England team cos of which club they play for. Do you think someone would have ten good games for West Brom and walk straight in?

Until you have a manager who picks a team based on form & talent rather than which club you play for, it will always be the same. In the same way, as long as you have a manager who just crowbars his favourite 11 into the team rather than picking a balanced side, we will always fail.