Everton's late surge not enough to overcome resilient Spurs

Kone... words fail me.

He shouts at his team mates with encouragement, gets back to break up opposition attacks, and always looks to start and support our attacks.

We know how Bobby likes his stats... maybe he should take a look.

Besic has surely earned more game time after that performance. A frustrating season so far!

I thought Cleverley had a good game but he was knackered in the last 10 minutes and I would have brought Mirallas on to try and snatch a victory. Barkley has been improving steadily over the last few games but today for me he had a very poor game, making the wrong decisions time after time with his passing, and even his great bit of skill at the end didn't compensate for his overall poor performance.

Second half was like a different team had come on to the pitch. Whether it was RM's pep talk at half time or players decided to take charge, who really knows.

But there was no question that Besic added the steel that we have been missing. I would have left Lennon on personally as I thought he did enough to warrant that.

It seemed to be Spurs who were hanging on in the final moments. It was a very entertaining second half, but still 2 points dropped.

Still no place for Mirallas. Things don't look good there. I think if he had replaced Kone... well, we just might have got a winner.

I'd give Man of the Match to Barry again. He as been outstanding in the last three games.

Bobby is deluded... RM: "I am pleased with the way we defended. At this level, you can't give away soft goals and today we showed we'd learned lessons."

La la la...

Post #6: I know some people think the stats don't lie but there is no way that we are as badly off now as under Walter Smith. The football then was dire... do you not remember; whereas now, some of it is often sublime.

Try being more optimistic please! We need Jags back but we can and will defend better. All we need then is a run of 7 or 8 games and we'll be knocking on the door of the top four – I can totally see that happening. Just like Man Utd were top of the table 7 or 8 games ago. This is a funny season and we have so much to play for this year.

With Besic we instantly look a sharper, harder and more balanced side and his performance today was very encouraging. I thought Funes Mori was also excellent.

The one who continues to concern me is Seamus who I don't think is anything like the player he once was.

No complaints in the end, a fair result.

Besic really has the desire to win, which is questionable in some of our midfielders when you see players breezing past them without a challenge. Deulofeu was more of an attacking threat for us, which caused Spurs to drop a bit deeper and give us a bit more breathing space in the middle.

I also thought Gareth Barry put in a good shift. The entire team performed well in the second half and Seamus and Bainsey are beginning to look more like the players that we know they are once more.

One hell of a game. We did well to withstand some intense early pressure from a good Spurs team, so I don't think that we should be over critical with the boys today.

Spurs were head and shoulders ahead of us in the first half, it was almost like watching men versus boys... quite embarrassing.

The second half, we were much more involved in the football match. Besic freshened things up and at least looked like he wanted a go. Deulofeu added threat but I really wish he'd stop just whacking the ball at defender's legs and be a bit more clever when crossing.

Barkley was pretty rank today, seems to be lacking in confidence, his passing wayward and still chickens out of too many winnable tackles. Lennon did well and deserves more starts.

All-in-all, a point is a point; it wasn't the home win we badly needed and to be honest. The league is ebbing away now into just trying to consolidate a top 12 slot; we don't and won't win enough games until we keep more clean sheets. It's no coincidence that our last two wins since November 1st, have both resulted in clean sheets.

On to the biggest game of the season on Wednesday night when we need an absolute mammoth performance.

If RM insists on playing him, well go 2 up top and go 4-4-2, or 5-3-2. Why do managers insists of square pegs when there are alternatives in the squad.

I couldn't agree more about Seamus. I too think he isn't the shadow of the player he once was.

I thought Funes Mori, probably had his best game today.

I can't see RM going with that line-up on Wednesday against Man City.

He never seems to keep changes running into the next game, successful or not. So I'll be very surprised if Kone doesn't start.

Second half was much improved, and for me Besic changed it. His urgency in closing down made the difference to the whole team, and we were more than a match for Spurs, it's a performance to build on.

I didn't like the Deulofeu sub, should have waited another 10/15 minutes because Lennon was playing well. The fans in the Upper Gwladys didn't like that one!

Kone was terrible, and I know he holds the ball up further forward but what else does he offer really? Mirallas needs a chance, and I imagine he'll start on Wednesday.

But overall, not bad, it's something to build on.

Besic was immense, crunching tackles, good speed around the pitch, only a great save from Lloris prevented him from scoring and no small amount of skill.

Stones seemed a bit miffed after turning Son inside out, hope it's not a reaction to the crowd's derision re: that incident; if so, let's hope it's soon forgotten. For me, that was pure class.

Good result against a very good Spurs. Let's hope Martinez learns from this, eg, Besic to start in midfield alongside Barry, regardless of McCarthy's fitness; Kone on the bench to be used only in the event of Rom needing a rest. Cleverley on the bench too as a midfield replacement – he's really not good enough for the first XI.

Rom was seething with Cleverley at one point and was the only one showing anything in the first 45. Mo and Gerry gave us something extra and Spurs tired in the latter part of the game.

The game in August at their gaff was much closer, they have vastly improved and we have not.

My biggest fear is mediocrity and our best players leaving.

Then, yet again, we saw a complete turnaround in the second half, what a difference Besic and Deulofeu made which, if Lukaku had been on his game, we could have won. In the end, it was a fair result against a very talented Spurs team... But when are we getting back to a full 90 minute performance? Starting on Wednesday, hopefully...

This is a game that was almost out of reach at half-time. The formation and poor pressing showed far too much respect to a Spurs team that is resilient but not Barcelona.

Once Martinez snapped out of his inferiority complex, we performed much better. Credit to him seeing the light and changing it in time. Sad, though that most observers could see the problems before him.

This season has now got that Groundhog Day feel to it. The hopes of a high finish diminish with every flawed performance, and slowly our hope of Cup success will slip away in midweek, leaving us with the forlorn hope that the FA Cup will prove to be our salvation. We all know it will not. Man City will be treated with too much respect, and we will be found out in the second leg.

Our manager will not have the bottle to go for it, until the tie is lost. It will be another case of "what might have been". City are vulnerable at the back, but we will not set up to exploit them. The home leg will be wasted, as Martinez will be too scared to go for the jugular. We will have to go to the Etihad level, and hope to pick them off on the break.

This is the beginning of the end for this clown.

A big game on Wednesday. Hopefully the atmosphere at the Old Lady will push our lads on for a win. COYB.

I agree, Besic for Kone made sense; not sure about Deulofeu for Lennon though.

Martinez's team talk was probably about the need not to give soft goals away. It didn't work because, in the first half, we looked massively cautious and lacking in confidence. Is it not possible for Martinez to ensure the team to defend well without making them ineffective?

In the second half, we were set up as we should have been set up in the first half. Having dumped Kone and added Besic and Deulofeu, we looked a different team.

Despite Martinez's praise earlier in the week for Kone as a Lukaku foil, in reality he's nothing of the sort. Barkley is by far the better option at the moment for this role.

The two big questions posed by this game are:- Why hasn't Besic had more game time? And: What does Mirallas have to do to at the very least become an impact player in every game?

Actually, the third and possibly most important question is: When will I be able to drive home from Goodison feeling immensely satisfied with both the result and performance?

Will it be when Bobby has gone?

Maybe the subs changed the game but the fact remains that the scoring was done by the player subbed off. Deulofeu, with all of his stepovers, had one good cross and completely and utterly failed to get back and help out Coleman, unlike Lennon. This left Everton exposed the entire time Deulofeu was on. He absolutely has to learn to help out at least a little, especially when Rom does it. Oddly, the announcers over here were making fun of Deulofeu for being gassed and he hadn't even played a full half yet.

As for Stones, how is he not droppable? He continues to switch off and not link with his right-back and centre-half. He is to blame for the space for the long ball right into his area FFS. This is not the first of many goals conceded by Stones who has cost the team at least 12 points this season, counting the two today and three against Stoke, if not more. I hope to see Funes Mori and Jags partnered soon.

This was a game Everton could have and should have won. When the Spurs hit woodwork twice and got no goals from it, the team cannot concede a goal like it did.

I also thought that Besic played well. He deserves more game time.

I'd also cash in on Coleman if we had another bid like the one we allegedly received from PSG. Buy someone for a fraction of the fee, like the Dutch RB PSG were said to have offered, along with Sam Byram.

Let's hope we can take this momentum into the cup games...

Support the team, back the players.

I have to agree, and I think it's a shame because some of the best players we've ever had will go down with him (ie, leave the club). But he's too inflexible and too lacking in game management interest/skills.

We are, incredibly for Everton in the modern era, a good deal less than the sum of our parts. How I'd love to be proved wrong, but it's not going to happen is it? We're a point ahead of WBA for god's sake.

Besic should've started instead of Cleverley as it was a risk to start Cleverley in the first place, because of his injury. Naismith should've started instead of Kone for work rate alone, and he's a far better player who has a better understanding with Coleman.

The club is too big for Roberto; bring in Mark Hughes, with Peter Reid as his assistant, now before it's too late with this group of players.

If Besic doesn't start mid-week... I'll thcweem and thcweem until I make mythelf thick.

The second half, when the subs were brought on, was a totally different team. Kone has to be dropped, surely even our manager can see that.

I would have taken a draw before kick-off, the way we have been playing. At half-time, I would have snapped your hand off for the draw. The second half could have won it, but if that is his version of defence then things will not improve as we were lucky to be even at half-time.

Totally agree re Stones. He is going to be an exceptional player, but his positional play is very poor. Right now he's a luxury we simply can't afford. Give him a couple more seasons and he will be immense, but I'd welcome Jags back in his place.

He is incredibly young for a centre-back and would probably do better playing further forward. He certainly has the ball skills and passing to play as a defensive midfielder. Dier has flourished since Spurs made the decision to play him there. They too felt that he was too inexperienced to play centre-back right now.

Stones will be an England centre-back, and will be a Champions League player, but right now he is costing us points.

I loved the way they pressed us first half. That's what I want from us every game. Besic did it when he came on; got the crowd and team going.

At half-time on the forum, many were rightly praising Spurs to the hilt. They had the bulk of possession, hit the woodwork twice and conceded with the only shot we had. Funny how we get lots of stick on this site when that happens...

Besic hasn't been playing because he hasn't been fit. That's it. Looked good today and I'd keep him in the team.

Fair result, good performance, but for me it's two points dropped, again.

I think we're close to something. How patient are we? Can he keep the players at the club?

Here's hoping for a win on Wednesday....

Boils down to the manager's tactics but, apart from 20 minutes tonight, I thought we were awful.

We were much better in the second half playing more in midfield than our own half, except for Stones who seems to think it a good idea to showboat in his own six-yard box. The transfer window is open... so, who knows?

Another two points dropped at home – a regular feature these days. I am not optimistic about finishing in the top half of the table, and the League Cup on Wednesday is not a promising occasion.

Happy New Year to everyone... I hope!!

The lad is 32 years of age and he is being asked to run up and down the flanks. Get a fucking grip, Martinez.

Besic for Kone against Man City so that he can ruffle some feathers.

Howard would have got his hand to Kane's shot had it been on target and no goalie would have got near to the one which hit the bar but I hope Robles will play so well this week that RM has to leave him in the team.

I thought Besic looked a lot more physically solid – has he gained a stone of muscle? Very combative and bags of skill and just what we need alongside the excellent Barry.

Funes Mori had an excellent game too but the thought of selling Stones still appeals to me – there is always a mistake in him and his attitude seems to be that he wants away; sell him to finance team building.

Ross was a bit of a mixed bag but these young players are still learning and for me it was a good performance in the end against a decent team and I also thought we looked fitter than them at the end.

Well done, boys... now for City!!

The intensity of the second half was great.

Anyway, I did not see the "Stones" head-shaking incident, but concur that defenders are there to defend and anything more is great, but dribbling around in your own penalty area? 5 up against Dagenham maybe, Spurs at home, no.

However at 15:30 mins in to the game did anyone else witness the Tim Howard incident when I recon he said something to the people behind the goal?

James @36. If it was only criticism. It's a full blown tsunami of negativity on here most weeks. As for the live forum, it's a bearpit. Some seem to enjoy it though.

Whilst Kone is playing so badly, we cannot afford to sell Naismith.

Whether Stones actually did shake his head at the fans is not conclusive, but last week you have Tim Howard sarcastically applauding the fans behind him after he himself is sarcastically applauded for catching a ball, then last season there is James McCarthy telling the Gwladys Street to calm down!

It's not a nice atmosphere at Goodison Park anymore, it's even different than the struggling days under Moyes, I can never remember the atmosphere being so "snipey", for want of a better word.

It's not that I don't like criticism, I just think it's a bit misdirected at times. Yes we've had a couple of defeats and not won enough games lately, but I do think that people are very quick to lay into our players even when it's not completely warranted.

Spurs are one of the better sides in the division and played extremely well in the first half – supporters always concentrate on Everton and rarely (if ever) take into account the tactics and ability of the opposition. Managers and players can't get it spot-on every game, and you have to give credit where it's due. Spurs are probably the best drilled team in the Premier League this year, and very consistent in their performances so we did well to hang in there with them.

A more balanced view is I guess what I'm talking about – rather than all the same old "we were fucking shite" every week, even when we win games. It's just a bit tiring to read all the time.

On a side note – player selection; Martinez is picking teams based on the fact we have a lot of games coming up as far as I can tell. Kone may not be the best player out there but he does keep the ball better than most and does an effective job of defending too.

We weren't a disgrace in the first half – Spurs were better than us, it happens.

Disappointed in Stones who is beginning to buy into all the hype surrounding him. Pissing about in your own penalty area is never recommended and then reacting to the crowd for telling him so displays an arrogance not popular in these parts.

But well done all round and grand to see Besic 'coming of age'.

Noticeable there were a number of players on the pitch shouting encouragement and this is the type of reaction we should support – not individualizing players mistakes.

I thought Spurs were superb in the first half. I thought we defended well. A lot deeper.

Second half we looked fitter as Spurs had spent the first 60 mins closing us down and it showed. Our fresh legs helped in midfield.

I think we'd actually win more playing like that against the likes of Norwich, Bournemouth and Stoke..

We have had a terrible period in defence recently, with many of the goals conceded involving the centre backs or full backs chasing attackers who have got behind them or being outnumbered after a cavalry charge upfield. Today, the first half consisted of making sure we had a solid enough base to nullify attacks, and it worked. There were two long speculative shots, and then at the end of the half we had a momentarily short-of-numbers defence, an excellent pass which, half a foot either side would have been snuffed out, and a fortunate swivel and a shot which Howard nearly got to.

Otherwise, Spurs had the ball, but no penetration, no idea how to break down the defence or how to get behind the defenders to cross.

After a period of defensive horrors, I did not have the constant expectation that a horrible error was about to happen.

In the second half, almost all the stylish football was played by Everton. Stones completely humiliated the Spurs attackers to the point of being confident enough to dribble it round his own penalty area. Yes, there is a risk, yes it is arrogant, but isn't it the sort of football that we might have expected from Cruyff's Netherlands (the best team I have ever seen), and can you imagine what it did to the attackers' composure? I thought it was wonderful.

All the Kone-bashing seems to be misplaced also. He distracts defenders away from Lukaku, he is sometimes overwhelmed by defenders (but funnily enough, even George Best, Pele and Messi usually didn't score every time they got the ball), and his passes go astray. It very rarely matters, and the difference between the defence splitting pass and the one that goes to a defender or is overhit is so small that getting it right a few times is enough.

Kone is not a great footballer, but his presence this year has coincided with Lukaku becoming probably the best centre forward in England. (Actually I sometimes wonder if Lukaku isn't the victim of alien abduction, and if so, if the aliens read this list, can you please keep the version you have got and leave this one with us.) It's not clear why Lukaku - Kone works, but it does.

Today felt more like a victory than the Newcastle match, and far far better than the Stoke, Bournemouth messes.

What there was, was plenty of humour and the abuse was reserved for the opposition.

As for Spurs, best team I have seen this season, no weaknesses that I detected.

Kone, also agree with you, is it a coincidence that Rom has scored so many goals this season compared to last, and what has changed? Kone being around?

I left the ground today wondering as always, and concluded that the players not playing made more of a statement than the ones who were. For example, the Mirallas issue, I am sure Harold posted a bit ago that Kev does not even know who Baines is... never mind cover for him.

I always admire the runners. McCarthy for example. But to cut to the chase, is Besic better, does he do more than chase around? For me, yes. Baines, sure Barry has been great, a big well done, but Baines is just the right man for the job now. No disrespect to Barry at all.

I know some are injured and blah, but today I looked at the team and felt I am getting closer to what I think is our best team, and without being controversial for the sake of it, Barry has a place in it. He was excellent again today.

In the manager we trust... but the initial starting 11 that went out there clearly wasn't working until Besic and Deulofeu came on. It's difficult to justify Mirallas's exclusion, he looked so glum on the bench.

This definitely wasn't the Everton teams that have destroyed recent top 4 rivals at Goodison. I think the Stoke game did more damage than we realise.

As we ended is how I think we should start Wednesday.

Kone is a centre-forward, end of.

If the Boys Pen didn't exist before the early 60s, then it throws into doubt some of the reminiscences of our Beloved Bill!

What annoys me is that 7-8 years ago us and Spurs were always neck and neck in the Premier League and both of us would swap places year by year us, 4th, then 7th-8th, then 5th etc etc – exactly also what Spurs have done – BUT they are still doing it over the last 4 years whilst we have dropped away.

People might argue they have money but over last 5 years we have spent more on a nett spend basis – we spent £20m, they have got in £35m more than they spent. Yes, they got big big money for Bale but they also spent most of it on about 5-6 players, some of whom are now delivering, some of whom have already been shipped out.

So both clubs have bought and sold reasonably well, bring some kids through, so why the difference over last two seasons particularly – can only be the manager and how to play the game, both attack dynamically but they defend as well; we don't and can't – that's the crux.

The way we finished the game should hopefully give us some much needed confidence for Wednesday night, especially the way the crowd responded to the players at full time.

Can't recall what I paid to get in.

Can someone tell him that instead of blowing up Spurs' title aspirations, we should be competing with them for a top 4 place, not languishing in 11th place, above the relegation zone, and happy to draw with them. We're going backwards.

Besic was superb and showed why he should be in the lineup Wednesday night. But I wouldn't hold my breath, because Bob sees things differently.

We need to take the performance after todays substitutions into the whole of the semi final game. Besic and Robles have to start.

We have wide players on the bench. So what's the point of playing a mediocre striker on the left wing?? Answers on a postcard to the c/o R Martinez, Goodison Park, Liverpool.

No doubt we'll be 'treated' to see him again getting a game in our biggest match in 3 years on Wednesday night and contributing nothing when we have miles better options, ie, Mirallas.

Spurs could have been out of sight in that first half, but we much improved after the 60th minute mark and certainly finished the stronger side. Besic just has to have more game time now, and I felt Cleverley was a passenger.

Coleman made a last-ditch tackle inside the first 10 minutes when Tottenham strolled down our open left-hand side, Kane was allowed to coast down the left-middle for his shot which hit the post while we backed off.

We then missed a less than ingenious corner routine for Davies's shot that hit the underside of the bar and Coleman /Stones lost Alli for the goal. Hardly an improvement on recent games.

I think Seamus has been our most consistent defender this season. Not his fault he normally has double duties when McCarthy is out. He was a little slow to react to Dele Alli's run but only a pinpoint pass, immaculate control and a smart finish meant he didn't have any chance to make amends.

Supporters need to realise that hectoring players will not yield positive results. The players either already realise where they need to improve and are working to sort it out, or they never will. Giving negative input to a player who is in control of a situation because of anxiety or previous mistakes is only going to make the hackles rise. The only way to influence the game as a supporter is to improve the atmosphere.

Having said that, when Besic did come on, he showed a desire, fight and commitment that put the rest of this team to shame.

Did you see him when Stones was pissing about with the ball in the 6-yard box? He ran straight up to him, got in his face and told him to wake the fuck up!

I'd just about forgotten players did things like that, it has been so long since we had a captain or senior player with balls. We're badly lacking players with the warrior spirit who demand more from their teammates.

I think Martinez is really causing a split in the Goodison faithful, seems like a lot of people preferred Moyes's tough tackling 1-0 wins and a lot more don't know what they want. I do know that a lot of us are excited by this young, talented team that Martinez has put together (with a lot of help from Moyes and his old backroom staff) and that if we can keep them together, and get their confidence up, then we could win the league next season, or at least get right up there.

We're not that far behind Arsenal in terms of squad. Look what a top class goalie has done to a shocking defence there.

Barry and Besic together from the start today would have been better. I just don't see where Cleverley fits into this team, unless it's wide left when we need to go more solid, or as Barry's deputy (although I still think Gibson is better for that role).

It is regression in some aspects and progression elsewhere. If this season ends like last season, then it is regression overall; if we again hit some of the heights of 2013-14, then it may well be overall progression.

The Spurs back four were more wary of him and dropped a bit deeper, which has the effect of stretching the field and giving us more space in the middle. We had more possession in the middle after the substitutions, and of course, Besic was also instrumental in this.

"We are probably the most exciting team that you would enjoy to watch from a neutral point of view going forward" he goes on further to say "The stats tell you that we are the team with the most goals from open play which is something that is very, very difficult to achieve."

The two words that bother me are 'neutral' as I am not a neutral and 'open' play as I suppose corners don't matter. The more this man talks the more I think is is a phenomenal bullshitter. No mention of defending in the article.

I was talking with my fellow season ticket holder in the Lower Gwladys who told me about RM's fellow countryman Ballesteros the golfer who also had a philosophy. If he had a weakness, such as playing out of bunkers, he would work on it until it became a strength.

RM, take some advice from Seve, get them working on corners and sort out this defense.

As for Stones shaking his head at the Park End and Howard telling the Gwladys to calm down. A bunch of cocky individuals, once they have kept a few clean sheets and have defended like a unit, then they can do that. I like Stones but he consistently plays himself into trouble, but is still learning his trade. As for Howard, I think most people on this site know my opinion on him.

Not a bad performance today but still dropped points after being in the lead.

Wednesday will be interesting. COYB

Besic certainly didn't tell Stones to stop pissing about as you put it, he was backing him up if anything.

He made a difference when he came on, did Besic, but like Stones he to needs to learn to release the ball earlier. Barkley pulled out of a few 50-50s today which really annoys me.

If ever there was a match where we would have seen the true worth of Naismith, this was it; just like Besic, he would have ruffled a few feathers.

Another draw at home against a side that is being mentioned as potential winners of the Premier League... no chance.

I was very impressed with Besic and I think he should start on Wednesday, in place of Barry who I thought looked tired towards the end of the game.

I just think that, if we had a bit of ambition in the 1st half, we could have won. Again, performing for 45 minutes. Why can't we perform for the full 90?

Roberto says again that we've learnt but yet again we gave a soft goal away, just a simple ball over the top which we failed to deal with. How many times?

Arouna Kone MUST be dropped. Again he was awful. Surely Martinez can see that he's a terrible, terrible footballer who is out of his depth in the Premier League.

Howard should also be dropped. It's blatantly obvious that our defenders don't trust him and when there is a lack of trust and confidence between defence and keeper you have all sorts of problems.

Also, Besic has to start the next game, as he gives us that little bit of bite in midfield.

How would he describe our defensive display if we managed to keep a clean sheet? Phenomenal?

He is irritating.....with his over exaggeration and hyperbole.

Kone should, in my view, only play if we go 4-4-2, which I still think works sometimes. With Baines getting fitter and Jagielka to come back, I believe we will get more solid at the back and start getting wins.

Also, I hope we don't get a Stones backlash. He is good and will.be great. Perhaps he could do with a rest.

Agree that Besic made a huge difference. There are games where his style will suit - basically ruffling the feathers of players who want the game at their own pace. I'm not so convinced he's the right choice in every game though.

I thought Tim showed clear signs of the strain getting to him. We might have criticised his decision making in the past but today he looked like he was second guessing his own decisions. Which is about the worst situation you can have. Fully expect Martinez to either again publicly back him (which TW patrons will hate) or take him out of the firing line.

Overall improved performance and I thought we had enough chances in the last 15 minutes to best a very good Spurs side.

There's undoubtedly something in this team. Frustrating as hell.

On the other hand, Everton have chalked up only 18 wins from the last 58 games and that is decidedly mid-table fare. Over that time we have come to see team selection and substitutions almost as a lucky dip although certain names always come out of the hat!

But, for all that, we've seen some good football even though it has too infrequently been of the winning variety. After nearly 30 years of league failure, that seems to be our lot but hey, next week is Cup week and that's this guy's forte. I'm betting next week will see the Oxford moment we've all been promising ourselves. Dagenham, watch out!

I don't know why our managers have become obsessed with playing strikers on the wing. Moyesie did it with Andy Johnson, Anichebe & Naismith. Martinez has also done it with Naismith, Lukaku and now Kone.

I could see we were completely lopsided today, with nothing in front of Baines. It's been like this most of the season. Surely, it would make more sense to have a pair of wingers in the team? It's driving me crazy. I'd have gone with Mirallas ahead of Kone.

Even when he brought on Deulofeu, he took off Lennon, who had played well.

I thought that was a cracking game today. They played well first half, we didn't. But I thought we stepped it up a gear second half, and looked more like scoring a winner.

It's been so long since he's played barring the odd cameo that I'd forgotten what he was about. He's going to be some player once he gets a run of games behind him.

He's a player you can build your midfield around, that bit of spite and energy to go with Barry's experience, Ross driving runs and Del Boy's magic.

I've often thought it's down to tactics employed by Martinez; I thought that not pressing is a Martinez preference, but Besic showed today that perhaps it is. But not pressing can also be down to what's intrinsic in the player; as soon as Besic came on, he was closing down quickly, harrying and harassing the Spurs players, straight in their face and it worked a treat for us.

Martinez can talk all he wants about Barry's experience, which is fine. Cleverley has his qualities and plays some lovely passes... but, again, like Barry, is a Mr Nice Guy.

Neither have that aggressive bite, drive or energy that Besic has and he was instrumental when he came on – he's clearly a leader (of which I can think of none in the present lineup) and something that we have been badly, badly, badly missing.

We need some more Roy Keane, Paul Ince, Duncan Ferguson, dare I say it – Steven Gerrard's figures in our team, and Besic fits that mould.

That's a start; I'd like another one in a new keeper and centre-back, but for now having one in our midfield is a big step forward.

For the next game, I'd drop Kone and play Cleverley, Barry and Besic midfield.

Still some way to go on the defensive front – but it was clear to see a concerted effort has been made to improve and address this by the coaching staff and team – a step in the right direction on that front for sure.

Neither Howard nor Stones has done well this season. Howard had a terrible time last season. He's even worse this time around yet his arrogance and sarcastic attitude towards the Street End faithful is getting worse...,and in return they are reacting with irritation, cheering every time he hangs on to a cross...,they don't do that a great deal.

Stones has costs us a few goals recently but he has maintained support and rightly so; he is a class act but whether he's anywhere as near as good as he himself seems to believe is questionable. His talent does not however give him the right to treat the Park End to a children's style admonishment.

Goodison has every right to be nervous about our goalkeepers' performances this season. Goodison has every right to worry when, after a series of games where we've thrown away crucial points by terribly loose defending, we dick about in the box at 1-1 against a strong team intent on inflicting more pain on home fans.

Nobody in our squad and certainly not the manager has a right to be arrogant or dismissive of the fact that we only keep a clean sheet once every couple of months.

Howard should know better and frankly I can't stand the guy. He seems to have little time for us or a grasp of just how bad his form is right now. But John Stones seems seems to have self awareness and a practical down to earth manner, so to see him being so dismissive of fans who feared him losing the ball during a few training ground twists and turns when a thump out of the box was required... that was hugely disappointing for me.

I can't see either player being here next season but at least we may get 㿙m for one of them. Stones needs a reality check and I like the idea of him as holding defensive midfielder for a while, give the excellent Barry a break... but I'm hoping some wise head at Finch Farm has a word in his ear along the lines of "You're good son, very good, but these fans here know a bit about the game and they've seen some utter shite defending this year, including from you, so maybe ditch the finger-wagging 'calm down' stuff and focus on defending basics first, then strut around when things are not quite so depressing, okay?"

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35218654

Why do you think they perform better when the crowd are behind them? Just ask Leicester, Palace and Watford fans what can be achieved with a bit of unity.

The manager picks the players and if the fans are treating our own with cynicism then expect other players to feel it too.

Some people seem intent on getting John Stones out because he had the temerity to tell them to calm down. If we lost Stones, it would put us back light years. He is a potential Everton and England captain and regular so can we please stop the nonsense because you will be crying when he's gone and replaced with the likes of Johnny Evans.

I would like to see Deulofeu play on the left to provide through-balls for Lukaku to run onto. It's worth a try since Kone is pretty useless there.

I do believe (finally) that having centre-backs who can play football does allow the retention of the ball, usually, lost when it is just hoofed up the field. That may suit those who wish the ball is 'got rid of' at all costs, but will never satisfy the footballing purists like me.

The start of the 2nd half was a different story. We defended higher up the pitch, Barkley began to surge forward and Lennon attacked with speed. Barry also showed more forward intent.

On the hour mark, Kone and the excellent Lennon were replaced by Besic and Deulofeu. By this time the frenzied white shirted ferrets were starting to flag and the fresh legs and good attitude of Delboy and Besic in particular, helped us maintain momentum. Lloris was busier than Howard and we were close to winning all three points.

Difficult to say who got the tactics right. We took a risk, let them wear themselves out and pressed late on. They went for broke in the 1st half but only created one decent chance which the brilliant Alli converted.

They're a decent side but no better than us. Our tactics let them look very useful for 45 minutes but that's their limit. It isn't ours. We have players coming back from injury, we're still in transition and there's plenty more in the locker.

So we have a new idol, in Besic. Let's see firstly if he will be picked for a run of games. Secondly if he has the consistency to warrant this love fest.

I can't be disappointed in this season so far as I expected worse. Spurs looked great today while we looked a shadow of what we should be on paper.

"Kone, also agree with you, is it a coincidence that Rom has scored so many goals this season compared to last, and what has changed? Kone being around?"

Yes. It is a coincidence. The vast majority of Lukaku's goals have been set up by Del boy (who also wasn't around last season).

On a positive note, the introduction of Besic certainly got the crowd behind the team. Before then, all you could hear on the TV was the Spurs fans.

Of course the media is bleating on about Spurs before, during and after the match.

Is it still possible for us to get a top 5 finish??? My bipolar views of Martinez are increasingly being tested. However, I still feel the fans should get behind every player who is picked.

I feel sorry for Kone; he tries and is good at some things, like holding the ball up. The fans' frustration is undermining any confidence the players have.

Man City, if on song and a professional attitude, should be too much for this Everton side who can't put two good games together. Goodison Park needs to be in full voice if we are going to get anything out of this game.

The 2nd leg will either make or break our season. I just hope we don't meet the RedShite in the final, if we we're to pull off a miracle of beating Man City over the two games

But by that logic, our poor performance had us winning, and our improved performance was a net loss of one goal.

That's our problem isn't it? We look far more threatening when teams are camped in our half and we can hit Rom early and get our pacy players up to support him before the opposition have regrouped (as we did for our goal). We also look far more shaky in defence when teams hit us quickly on the break (as they did for their goal).

Our general tactics are to have relentless possession.

Anyone else seeing the problem? Which period of that game was our best again?

Then the subs...

For me, I'd never, ever take Deulofeu out. Never. Unless he's simply about to burst from exhaustion. The kid is so dangerous. I don't give a hoot if he "gives the ball away" or "misplaces a pass" because he does so 9 times out of 10 by trying to make a meaningful, defense-cutting pass or trying to make something happen "solo". He's a 90-minute player in my book.

Besic... that kid is marvelous. I love him. He plays hard, he plays intense, he plays the way a real man's sport should be played. He's a joy. He's the obvious answer to the missing McCarthy syndrome.

So...

From a Martinez backer, I ask rhetorically why in the hell weren't these two men on the pitch more? Why the "super sub" situation? Why Kone!!??

Again, we were absolute shit the first 60 minutes. Credit Roberto for making the subs but why not start that way and take the game to them? At Goodison no less!

Oh and finally what a great shout by someone on the live forum to sub in Mirallas for Barry who was flagging and bring Cleverley central. Oh that Roberto would have really shown some sin miedo and gone for it with that substitution!

Here's a guy trying to find a way to score. What I will say is that once he tires, he neglects the defensive side of the game completely. So, when that happens, we should either cover him or sub him. This season, Bob's just let it play out too often.

I thought Deulofeu did marvelously tracking back today and covering defensively!

But that is definitely the argument for not playing him the whole game – he wanes.

But, for me, I'd keep him out there. Especially at home against a team you need points against.

Get a lead (!) and then, if he's tiring, substitute with Lennon for defensive purposes. Not the other way around.

I realize that's entirely schoolboy analysis... but, for me, it has to ring true a bit.

I know nothing. Keyboard manager to be sure.

There's even a post on here from someone saying that he thinks supporters 'know a bit' about the game so therefore have the right to abuse our players and not expect a reaction. That's possibly the most ridiculous post I've ever seen on here.

You have absolutely no right at all to abuse your own players, and they have absolutely every right to respond to you. Tim Howard is a good goalkeeper, an experienced goalkeeper who knows more about the art of goalkeeping than you or I ever will, so when he wags his finger at supporters and speaks back to you, I back him over you every time.

Stones is class, and when he also responds to your taunts, I back him every time as well (as does Mo Besic evidently).

Supporters should be backing our players, and anyone abusing our players should be ashamed of themselves.

Just give it a rest. Howard has been awful, and I'd give him respect for wagging his finger if he did the same during each and every one if his screw-ups at himself.

So fans have no right to voice their opinion, but presumably should voice approval in your eyes, and the players of course have every right to talk back to supporters but never admit their own mistakes. What a blind world you must live in. Hear no evil; see no evil; speak no evil, huh?

The players have been crap and are paid to be out there. The supporters, on the other hand, are paying to be there and have had to witness horrible results. When you pay for something, and it is below par of your expectation, as a customer, you have a right to voice your dissatisfaction.

The players haven't been crap, they've been following orders from the manager – our problem is not about individual errors, it's about collective responsibility and a lack of the right formation is what costs us – not individual performances – and certainly not perceived goalkeeping errors from 'experts' like you.

I totally agree with those who have said that Stones is beginning to believe his own publicity and is fast becoming a liability we can't afford; I'd love to see Funes Mori paired with Jagielka rather than Stones & Jags.

Besic should be a shoo-in now he's fit again. He adds that missing dimension of tenacity we are woefully missing in midfield, and also agree there should be no place in the team for Kone who, at best, is of Championship standard, no more. Most of his passes today went to players in white shirts, and he creates no more chances for Rom than Del Boy, so Martinez can't keep pushing that old chestnut down our throats.

Lennon also gives us another attacking option and should start more often. Use Del as a second-half sub, like today, with occasional devastating effect. The manager needs to lose his stubborn, petulant streak and use Mirallas, who just might have won the game for us today, if he'd replaced Cleverley.

As for Howard, I still feel he should have stepped forward when that ball came over the top, narrowed the shooting angle, and could, with quicker feet, have got a hand to Alli's shot. He's had his day and Martinez must wake up to the facts and realise it.

If all that sounds negative I apologise but that's my personal opinion based on watching our great club for over half a century. As a former amateur goalkeeper at a fairly good level, I knew when it was time to quit, nobody had to tell me I was a second slower coming off my line for crosses, or a similar second slower getting down to reach shots like Alli's.

A good team player knows in his heart when he can't produce the goods any longer. Howard plays for his own self-aggrandisement and ego (and Martinez's), and the defence's jitters are in a big way down to lack of faith in the man behind them.

I honestly can't see us winning anything as long as Martinez is in charge. His inflexibility and intransigence are basically strangling the life out of a great set of mostly younger players and I can't see us getting better until his reign comes to an end. Like Kone, his talents are more suited to a Championship club.

Does anybody else think BK heard him wrong at his interview? Instead of saying he'd get us in the Champions League in four years I suspect he said quietly "I'll get you in the Championship in four years". Such an easy mistake to make, Mr Kenwright.

Now Kane's shot that hit the post... I've no idea how he didn't have time to move his feet for that one.

And the crosses he came for were a mess. Didn't commit to the punch, then punched one he should have caught. You can see it getting very messy.

Bob and Del know the answer to why. I suspect we never will.

I really wouldn't get too attached to Stones, he will be off in the summer.

Injuries permitting, he will get at least at least 60 to 80 caps. However, he has plenty to learn. Plenty. He's costing us goals this season. When he moves and he's playing Champions League football, he will really be at the sharp end & it won't all be plain sailing, there will be some tough times ahead. He's not exactly getting top class defensive coaching here, that's for sure.

For me, if he wants to be the player he should be or wants to be, I'd say get away from Martinez. However, from about 24/25 to 34/35 he will be a top class European centre-half.

There's no big deal if he leaves, we trouser the £50 million, sign a replacement and move on. That replacement may well be a better defender as well.

Martinez with the Stones & Rom money though? Hmmmmmm....

To be fair to Kone, and to the surprise of many, he was starting to form a good partnership earlier in the season with Lukaku, so I assume he may have been picked to 'help' Lukaku. His goals helped as well.

Not sure if my timing is correct but Deulofeu came in a bit later and also 'helped' Lukaku. I think Kone was playing just behind Lukaku. Now stuck more out on the wing and asked to help defensively. Never his game... so why should we expect more from him in that position? On current form, he should be dropped.

I would still like to see Gibson feature somewhere. His range of passing is good. He could probably do the Barry role. Barry in my opinion is too one-footed and I noticed on more than one occasion a chance to play Lukaku in yesterday but it was on his right foot and he turned on to his left and the chance to play Lukaku in was lost.

My team in an ideal world would be:

Howard
Coleman, Stones, Jagielka, Baines
Deulofeu, Gibson, Besic, Cleverley
Barkley
Lukaku.

No room for McCarthy at moment or Mirallas. But I think Deulofeu and Mirallas could interchange.

Who would be a manager!?!

I think Deulofeu is knackered after 50-60 minutes because all our attacks are through him. If we had a left side like we did when Pienaar and Baines were in their pomp, we could spread the load.

Why Martinez can't see the benefits of width on both sides, I just do not know... I'd sooner see a 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with Barkley helping Lukaku than the lopsided approach we have now. Mirallas,Deulofeu, Lennon or even Baines with Galloway behind him could all give us the necessary width.

It might not suit all opponents but the space Walker had yesterday was criminal and wouldn't have happened if we'd played with width down the left. Baines is only half the player he was and his strengths, attacking and crossing, linking up with the wide man (like Pienaar) are now negated.

I do think 4-4-2 is back. Football formations seem to go in cycles, one emerging as dominant and then another emerging to counter the success with the old. Three in the middle seemed the way to dominate possession and beat 4-4-2, but then there was a move towards these hybrid attacking formations such as 4-2-3-1.

My view is that the likes of Martinez and Rodgers are missing the point. The best teams have more of the ball, but it doesn't follow that having more of the ball makes you more likely to be the best. Teams like Leicester and Watford are showing up these one trick ponies. Possession isn't everything and can be a curse.

At present we play our best football at pace and you don't get that with 60% possession - after your first few passes you've run out of space to move into unless you keep going backwards. In fact you're better off being compact at the back and letting the attackers break quickly. The old 5 a side tactics – leave space to break into.

4-4-2 for us either means converting Ross into a second forward, playing him in a true midfield position, or dropping him. Personally I would play him off Lukaku and see what happens.

Coleman Stones Jagielka/Funes Mori Baines
Deulofeu McCarthy Barry/Besic Mirallas
. . Lukaku Barkley

I wouldn't mind seeing how that side could stretch teams out.

However, we didn't lose against one of the teams being thought of as title contenders, so a point against such a team is useful, even if it was at home.

Just now looked at your previous post @63.

You just about sum it up there!

Here we go again, fans assuming they know what the players think. Do you know what I think of that? Well, yes, I guess (and that's the operative word) you do.

What's way more important is where we're going. It's downwards and there's no statistic to show otherwise. With Martinez, there never has been and, three years into his regime, there never will be in my opinion.

Happy New Year? Yeah, right.

Harold (#121), good post in many respects, but is it going to happen? As Mark Anderson says, Martinez, is giving most of us bipolar!

Ray (#140), that's the biggest worry of the lot to me, and why I asked Harold, does he think it's ever going to happen for us. An Everton manager who despite having four wide men on his books, only plays down one side? It's baffling.

Can't agree with you about taking Barry out of the starting 11. From what I have seen this season he is the hub of the team. He is tiring at the end of games because he is not only covering a lot of ground but is also getting involved in a large percentage of the physical clashes.

Having said that Ian, I posted on the pre match thread your starting outfield 10 with one except, I had Gibson, Besic, and Barry in midfield.

In my view put Gibson and Besic either side of Barry and his performances will get even better.

Apart from Besic's overall impact on the game I also noticed that Funes Mori's performance improved noticeably in the last half-hour. I think these two have a lot in common and will form a strong partnership if given time together. Funes Mori attacks the ball in the air.

Lennon is a good professional footballer and I thought he put in a good performance but Deulofeu's introduction created the conditions for Barkley to come more into the game and make use of his great skill on the ball. They can both lose a man with their first touch and are unpredictable. We looked like the "real Everton" in the last 30 minutes the way we got the ball up the pitch quickly.

The manager got his substitutions spot-on this time and, maybe, just maybe, he intended to "rope a dope" before he made them – or maybe he was just lucky. We will never know.

On Besic – man of steel. I like the way he introduced himself to Alli.

So for me, all-in-all, much encouragement to be taken from our second half display. Now on to Man City.

I do, though, take a lot from what players actually do, and totally agree about Delboy's antics when losing the ball or not getting a free kick, and when throwing himself. Get on with game, Delboy.

Which Spurs players are better than ours to justify where they are as opposed to where we are?

Man for man, I can't see any, excepting in goal, and this is not intended as a rant against Tim – it's just that Lloris is top-notch.

The difference between them and us is the boss on the touchline / training pitch, and that's all.

'That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen on here' in reference to my post (#116)... Crumbs, you must be new here then!!

Here's the thing. Firstly, none of us are experts I guess in terms of being paid millions to play football. But the fact that WE pay to watch said 'stars' gives us a small right to reasonably 'have our say' whilst sitting in an ancient if much loved stadium getting soaked to the skin because the roof over your head doesn't extend far enough and this after hours getting to the match in the first place, etc, etc.

Note the word "reasonable" above. I've never abused a player in blue, ever. I have however reacted angrily to terrible performances or incidents of almost childish arrogance and at Goodison on Subday we saw both, sadly.

The Park End did not "abuse" John Stones when he took an absurd risk trying to be clever in his own box. Our fans reacted because here was a much hyped talent doing much the same as he has done a few times this season... and lost the ball in hugely dangerous areas... despite the fact that we were at 1-1 with not long left and have an embarrassing and damaging record of giving up points late on. This time Stones pulled it off and came away with ball, but not before his "calm down calm" gestures belied the fact that he personally has cost us games this season with personal errors that are totally out of keeping with his "status" as one of the best defenders in Europe.

What is "one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here" is actually that you utterly fail to understand why us ignorant "just paying fans" do not it seems have the right to quite mildly express a mixture of fear and frustration that yet another personal error was about to happen in front of them.

I agree with many on here that abusing players in the true sense of the word is wrong and in case counter-productive. Our crowd isn't always great at self generating encouragement i.e. Getting loudly behind the team when yet again we are under performing.

We could be better in this regard, I get that. But then I've been watching football at Goodison as a season ticket holder for 40 years and I've been witness to a lot of dross sadly, and some brilliant moments, and frankly I suspect our crowd has more patience than most, even if it does result in some library-like quietness at times.

Short memories are common amongst us fans and yours James is clearly one of the worst. Have you forgotten how, despite transfer requests and obviously not being adverse to a transfer too late for us to replace him, John Stones spent a late pre-season being loudly praised as a diamond or whatever, given incredible unquestioning support by most and booed by just a handful of folk as our club held out against intense pressure to sell?

Do we have a "right" to react in exasperation and yes, even anger, when a prodigious talent seems to be getting carried away with his personal rep as his team put in a string of performances at the back that defy description they are so poor? Do we have a right to react when one of the poorest runs of form from a goal keeper I've ever witnessed, 18 months of terrible personal and often unpressured errors help us to a grim record of defensive failure that has so far cost us a top four challenge?

I think we do but not in the sense that personal abuse is the order of the day. No, instead there is a sarcasm in cheering Howard's catches from the Street Enders. It's not borne out of ignorance, it's based purely on lost patience, on awful performances and basically on the fact that we have a no1 keeper who often fails to command his box, who punches like he's got blurred vision and who is demonstrably slow to react when agility might save the day. Has he been better than this ? Yes. Is he nearing the end of his top flight career? Probably. Should he be displaying arrogance when honestly a bit of humble pie might get him the crowd backing he wants ? Yes.

James, not of this is easy or simple or unconnected from the other "stuff" going on right now. Our manager is not getting anywhere near the best from one of the best squads of players in the league right now. All our defenders have at various times been poor but then the manager has no Plan B and has a reputation for not seeming to pay enough attention to defending... which in itself is bizarre.

We are winning few games, whilst often playing very attractive football and the latter, tho at times lovely to watch, doesn't make up for that stunningly simple equation that wins mean progress up the league and defeats or excessive number of draws means mediocre mid table or worse.

So there it is, my "ridiculous" post was about fans having the right to express what was actually very mild exasperation at two players who seem somewhat remote from the reality of our current situation and more worryingly who seem not to have grasped that however brilliant they feel they are, their contribution to basically awful defending is amongst the worst in the team at present.

Your response seems to be "shut up and continue to be to tolerant, and continue to watch in unquestioning silence as a clearly talented bunch of players under perform or behave with an arrogance we don't deserve. I prefer my brand of being ridiculous ! Cheers

Anyway, I have always been a fan of Besic since watching this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETnrwdZAk34

... when we first got him. It's not a just selective series of clipos showcasing skills like most of these vid clips, but gives a really good insight into the person, the man and his mindset. I really do think he can become another Everton icon if we can look after him and continue to develop the potential of this great squad.

I've been a Besic fan since I saw him in that first (friendly) game for us over at Prenton Park. Such enthusiasm.

Hajde Momo Besic

Around about the 55 minute mark, Kane could hardly put one foot in front of the other, Eriksen could hardly breathe and various team-mates were putting in tired tackles. One or two of our own lads were beginning to feel the strain but nowhere near as bad. The rest you know.

For all their possession, especially early on, Howard has seldom enjoyed a quieter afternoon.

My only disappointment was Ross, one of my favourite players. Gus Hiddink has just stated on Sky Sports that, in order to achieve things, players must be prepared to do the dirty work. Sadly, our boy was the only one on the pitch yesterday who avoided it. I'm sure it's not intentional or laziness. Warnock once remarked that Ross did not have one single defensive cell in the whole of his body and he's probably right. The lad intends to do it, and sometimes begins to do it but it doesn't last long.

We have a goalkeeper having a bad season but the manager keeps picking him so he's on the pitch, yes it's frustrating. Do you think it helps him though if the crowd sarcastically cheers him if he catches the ball?

There is nothing positive to gain for our team from getting on the players backs. It only serves to increase the pressure on them when clearly some like Howard are already struggling. It can only be to the detriment of our team and the advantage to the opposition.

I'm sure such negative actions are a cathartic experience for some fans so it makes them, rather than the players, feel better. But if only they could stop the negativity it can only help, even if only a little. So the next time the fans are ready to exert their right to give a player stick maybe they could consider the bigger picture?

As for our fans being some of the most patient, I disagree. If you watch some of the matches at the likes of Leicester, Bournemouth, Stoke you will notice how the crowd hardly get on the backs of their players. Sure there are groans of disappointment when a mistake is made, but it's a very different sound to abusing, however mild, individual players.

Now I'm not saying we are worse than most, probably average. Newcastle is one of the worst though, a classic example of a group of fans who are so stressed and unable to control their negativity, they pass it onto their team's players after only a few mistakes and the tone is set for the rest of the game. They have done this for years and I think it is a partial reason for some of their problems, it certainly was a factor in them loosing Pardew.

We in the crowd can play our part in supporting our team, we can take a breath when a player fucks up and waive our right to abuse our players. It only can help the opposition if we get on our team's backs.

Regarding Howard, when he ran to the Street End at the start of the game, he was given generous applause by the fans; Howard never acknowledged this applause in any shape or form, a bit childish in my opinion. I think Martinez must be praying Howard pulls a hamstring or something so he doesn't have to make the decision he should have made weeks ago and replaced the goalkeeper. The continued selection of Howard is helping nobody, including the keeper himself. If Robles plays on Wednesday and has a good game, he must keep his place until he starts playing like the man he is replacing.

We have leaked goals due to mistakes – the last one his challenge that led to a penalty in front of the Park End; whether it was a penno or not, he gave the ref a decision when he didn't need to dive in.

His gambling with the ball is the wrong type of arrogance – it's cockyness at the expense of the team. The fans weren't happy and they let him know – the arrogant kid knows better than the paying fans clearly – after all he has Rio Ferdinand bigging him up. Thing is, Rio isn't an Everton fan and his praise of Stones is a means of self-flattery nothing else.

There will be forwards rubbing their hands together knowing that this kid's ego writes cheques his feet may not be able to cash – for me, it's a sign that he thinks he is above us and is auditioning for a big move.

Seems like Seamus decided to try it also yesterday – deary me.

I have nothing against Tim Howard and think he's been a very good servant and ambassador for Everton but I've been saying for 4 years that we need a goalkeeper who can command his penalty area and back four. Sadly, I don't think Robles is the answer either. There are good goalkeeping options out there. Please go out and get one because Tim Howard is in danger of losing the mainly good reputation he has earned with us down the years.

Besic is the one player who seems to hate losing. He deserves a chance in the starting 11 against Man City.

It is so frustrating being an Evertonian. We are close to being a great side. For years the thing that we lacked was a genuine goalscorer. Now that we have one, we are shipping goals at an alarming rate. Under Moyes, we were hard working and hard to break down but were dull to watch and lacked creativity. I have mates who support other teams and would not watch Everton as a neutral. Now we are the most entertaining team in the division, scoring more from open play than any other team.

Will we ever get it right? I'm starting to wonder why we put ourselves through this. Now it's another January of me watching transfer news hoping we'll land the missing piece in the jigsaw and dreaming. In reality, Man City will turn up against us and knock us out with ease. We'll scrape through against Dagenham only to draw Arsenal away in the next round.

It's not that I don't think he is talented; he is, but so is David Luiz and at the moment that is what he thinks football is about "looking good".

I think the kid's ego is way out there – it's all very well looking great and stepping out with the ball, learn to defend!

£50m could really strengthen our team – give us a proper second striker/Number 10 like Yarmolenko, and get a new goally and a replacement centre-half or two.

As for the match itself. Our ninth draw this season. Too good to lose. Not good enough to win. Every season it's the same old, same old. Drawing our way to mid-table also-rans.

In 7 of the last 9 seasons our drawn games have gone into double figures and I've no doubt this season we will do so again.

This season, we have lost one more game than Arsenal yet they are top of the table while we are 11th. The reason? They've only drawn 3 games and won 13. These days, a draw is a defeat. Unless you're trying to avoid relegation, one point is no good. Unbeaten runs are useless if they are all draws, The season we made the top 4, we won 18 games and drew only 7. In RM's first season, we won 21 games and drew 8 and finished 5th.

If we want to finish in the top 4, we have to win games and stop settling for draws and thinking we did well. As far as I'm concerned, that was a defeat yesterday. We had the lead and once again we didn't hold it. We had chances in the second half to win it and once again we failed to take them.

Kone was rubbish – should never have been on the park. Barkley failed to move the ball forward fast enough. His constant hesitating drives me mad. His inability to defend just compounds it. The big wimp should take a leaf from Besic's book and get stuck in.

We have the squad to win far more games than we do. Yet through a combination of poor defending, constantly picking players not up to the job over those that are and lack of leadership both on and off the pitch, we have frittered away our best chance to make the top 4 in years.

Apparently these days defenders are not supposed to defend anymore. Full-backs are supposed to overlap and rush into the opposing half leaving acres of space behind the.

Centre-backs are supposed to come out with the ball. Glide gracefully into the midfield and make cultured passes to the midfield players.

Too posh to punt.

Calm down, calm down! ;)

Honestly, Mark, I got bored about halfway through your rant so I won't even honour you with much of a response. You're welcome to your opinion, whatever it is.

John Stones is a cracking footballer, and long may he twist & turn in our area while you whinge into your pie with all the other whiners in the Park End.

Everyone wanted goals, we have goals. Everyone wanted young, dynamic players, which again we have, yet now everyone is complaining and wants a team full of steady Eddies and grafters!?

You can't have it both ways.

The manager obviously needs to balance the attacking threat with a desire to defend, and I would suggest that yesterday we saw the perfect example of what we should be looking for – Spurs. Easily the most consistent, balanced attacking/defensive unit in the Premier League.

Incidentally I see criticism of Coleman (and Howard) for Spurs' goal yesterday. Let's acknowledge that it was an excellent pass and they spotted, I think, that Coleman was still getting back to his position after being caught offside in their half. So, he was not positioned well, but to me more culpable was today's favourite whipping boy, John Stones.

At that stage of the half, he should have been at least 5 yards deeper. As it was, he and Funes Mori were too close together in looking at Kane so Stones provided no protection to Coleman at all when the ball came over the top. Having said which, Alli did take it very well, didn't he? Great first time control and a calm finish.

Well, apologies for boring you, James but then your not being bothered to read through my admittedly long post before reaching your conclusion and then lobbing a few insults around hardly adds to your argument... in fact, it was almost arrogant? Crumbs, maybe that's why you rallied to John Stones defence and probably think Howard is right with his newly acquired, almost dismissive "attitude" towards those who have supported him for the last few years.

Anyway, just to be clear, and in response to Andy's well argued post at #160, I actually didn't think Stones got massive "abuse" or that getting on a player's back is productive. It isn't and there are few winners from that approach. But this "discussion" wasn't really for me about abuse or even "whinging into my pie" (they are awful pies, by the way); it's honestly about a couple of players who seem to me to have lost track of our season and their own part in it.

That reaction from the Park End was an instant expression of utter fear and frustration. Fear that we looked like taking crazy risks at 1-1 with minutes left after a season where we have thrown away points late on... and frustration that Stones, and James Marshall of course, simply don't seem to get why they, the fans, are now so concerned by such risk taking.

Did I say that Stones wasn't a big talent? Nope. Is he the real deal? Yes, he looks it most of the time and has the potential to be a truly outstanding player. Is he perhaps getting a little bit cocky as he reads the praise lavished on him by some? I think so, but my feeling that way isn't the same as getting on his back or abusing the guy and as I've said, I have never screamed abuse or had a good boo at a player in our shirt... for pity's sake Unsy was one of my fave players and he took endless stick!

Oh and whilst we are about James Marshall, the answer is yes: we can have it both ways if that means being a classy defender who actually knows how to do the basics and isn't afraid of Row Z when appropriate. That's when the usually calm and collected and very self-aware, and yes classy, John Stones will have fully earned the plaudits coming his way.

As for Howard, I stand by everything I said about his arrogance and apparent unwillingness to take a heap of the blame for 18 less than great months. He hasn't been harshly treated, quite the contrary. I agree it's very disappointing to see the Street End and our keeper at loggerheads like this but, all of a sudden, I think many have just had enough of his attitude, not to mention his awful form. Robles honestly isn't miles better and that's why Howard keeps getting picked, but that says much more about the manager's failings than actually either of our keepers.

Thank you James Marshall for allowing me to have an opinion, whatever it was! Decent of you, old chap, time for more pie whilst reading the latest from our manager who now says the squad is too SMALL!! Give me strength.

All things in perspective, my main worry is that we are drifting backwards, which I think we are. We have more creativity now but that only helps going forward. We seemed to be more uncertain when defending when opponents turn up the pressure. Seems to me a coachable situation, if we have the right coaches.

But alas, we're not going to address that because of how the dictator RM wants things, using the media to pump the players up. Where's the coaching? That's basic needs for a football club. As much as I agree we're in showbiz, RM is WAY too showbiz for our immediate needs. Maybe ship him to Real (now that they are managerless) after we win the League Cup?

D'you know, Frank, here am I thinking we had wingers or wide men for that sort of thing! Heaven help us. Does that only apply to us or are some of the teams we play against, you know, the ones who attack with a couple of blokes down the wings, tearing us to shreds with intelligent crosses which lead to goals, are they not supposed to do that?

Terry White (#173),

Yes, Terry, Baines and Pienaar have always been more than the sum of their individual parts, but what a combination. I thought it would not be beyond the wit of man, or even Martinez, to try and encourage a similar duo with Baines and Galloway, or Oviedo if he ever gets back to his best, something to give us more attacking threat and also cover when we are defending.

And it's a good and often overlooked fact that some goals, for and against, are just too good to defend against. Otherwise every game would be nil-nil.

John Stones does what comes naturally to him, and I'd rather have culture than a Row Z hoofer but each to their own.

A few people can see it's the Manager that’s the problem. (I admit I cannot stand Martinez; even at his first home game against Real Betis a couple of years ago I was screaming at him, Osman got robbed on the edge of the box in a friendly.) But everyone else seems to be pointing at the players??? I cannot understand why.

Howard & Kone... okay, I understand that. But we have have a great squad, we really do...

Martinez – Sets the Training,
Martinez – Shapes the Team
Martinez – Sets the Tactics
Martinez – Pick the players to Play.
Martinez – Sets the game Plan
Martinez – Adjusts the tactics in the game.
Martinez – Makes the Decision on the Subs
Martinez – Tells the players either to Push up or Defend.

The players follow his lead.

Spurs are a prime example: Villa Boas, Sherwood, Pochettino

Villa Boas Buys a shitload of players most who are still at the club. But cannot get them to gel and is kicked out of the club, Tim Sherwood comes in, notices that some of the players are not up standard and brings in a raft of kids and does really really well but gets sacked, Possibly because the board had lined up Poch.

Poch comes in, gets rid of the deadwood and sicks with the players that did well whilst bringing a couple of quality players and they look as good as any of the top 4 and they have the youngest squad in the Premier League.

They play with a balanced side. they are organised, they score goals and play off a big striker. They don’t concede goals – fewest in Premier League (I think). Yet they play good football.

Can you see what I am getting at yet? It is not our players to blame, there is only one person to blame and that is Martinez.

Can anyone tell me when we played with a balanced side? Two wide players, one with a right foot ,and one with a left foot?

Also, didn’t Barry say in the summer that the manager played him to much last season? How many games has he missed? (I like Barry.)

My mate said to me the other day "You are on a witch hunt against Martinez; win a couple of games on the run and we will pushing for Europe."

I told him "Look at the table and our fixtures and in the same breath we could be in a relegation scrap."

I am worried... so worried, I will not even talk to my Missus on the day of the match... which means I get no sex when Everton play and that pisses me off even more!

Yes, there's a time and a place for just 'getting rid' and with a few minutes to go at 1-1 I'd probably say 'getting rid' is an easy option. It does lead to the ball coming straight back at you though so I can understand why Stones chose to do what he did. Is he a bit cocky and chancing his luck? Yeah probably, but I'd take a player like Stones over your typical Premier League clogger any day of the week. At least the lad has faith in his abilities.

I think they'd get £40m if he was sold this year though.

I was yards away from the incident, Stones was not abused, the crowd – as Ken reports – panicked and screamed for him to put his foot through it. That's not the lad's way.
When Stones pressed down his flat palms, he was merely telling the fans that he had things under control, there was no abuse only smiles and huge sighs of relief.

John Stones has a lot to learn; he can occasionally be surprised by a change of pace, he can still be eased off the ball by stronger players when not concentrating, he's still prone to be taken under the ball when dead balls are knocked in. He's far from the finished article BUT... the guy is unique. He is already the most naturally talented ball playing defender this country has produced in my lifetime. He is a complete joy to watch.

After years of having yard-dogs hump balls as far as they can go, English football now has a supremely talented defender with ice in his veins... Now gobshites like Carragher are bleating that he has "TOO MUCH" ice in his veins.

If you want to see the Carragher way, come round our house and I'll boot the fucking ball as right down the street... and I'll only charge you a fiver... but if you want to see someone special do something you or I could only dream of doing, get yourself up to Goodison Park.

We are watching the development of a world superstar here. Stop bleating if he gives you a few heart stopping moments. Enjoy and cherish these moments... it's called entertainment

He may well be strutting his stuff around the Nou Camp or Bernabeu some time soon but no doubt the managers there will be giving him an appropriate rollicking.

Totally agree with Darren's point of view. I think his position long term is defensive midfield where he can defend his position as well as set up plays with his movement and passing.

Of course, what bugs me is the person supposedly in charge of developing him...The man that can only play the game one way... Open and attack. Not sure if that's the best way to utilize Stones's skillset.

Bobby Moore would sometimes walk the ball out of defence as though he was taking a stroll in Hyde Park. In those days, maybe your average fan was more educated than today but everyone in the country appreciated Bobby's skill and icy nerves.

He needs to develop his heading ability and presence in the box and, above all, his positional awareness needs to improve. As someone has observed, he was in no man's land for Alli's goal and that happens quite often.

I expect him to be a top star in a couple of years but he requires a proper defensive coach and he won't find that at our club.

Leave the lad alone!

Despite his obvious shortcoming, which will improve with experience, he is already in the £50m+ bracket. He's young, he's English and he's brilliant so if you want him.......

It is a funny one but John Stones obviously felt he had the Spurs guy in his pocket; had that been Costa or Aguero or the likes chasing him down, I personally think he would have hoofed it or passed the ball a lot quicker.

If you look at the situation carefully (and I am not just saying this because I am anti Howard) but could it be that John Stones just didn't trust Howard or was doing his best to show him up for the clown of a keeper he has become!?!

I have watched it over and over a few times and I think Howard could have showed more for our young defender... but no; he just stands there. It even looks like initially Stones is looking for Howard to come and collect the ball or if not certainly show for it to clear. Could it be that Stones mouthing the "fuck me" to himself was aimed at the goalkeeper?

On the match itself and the result, as an Everton supporter I am disappointed but not surprised and believe that, if as an Evertonian you are happy drawing AGAIN, then you are happy with the position we are in..

There is no doubt Martinez has assembled a young squad with LOADS of potential, but as a manager he is letting the club and himself down.

I do understand that good teams take time to build and Martinez is trying to sign as many young players for the future as he can, but we need at least three "take no prisoners" players, one at centre-half and the other in the middle of the park and striker / goal poacher and we need them now.

The Incredible One – as I will call him from now on – has stated that, in order for Everton to keep hold of our best young players – and I would include Besic and even Mason Holgate in that bunch – then we simply have to start winning things or they will be off. Well, I agree with him... although it's not rocket science.

Personally I don't believe Stones and Lukaku will be wearing Everton shirts at the start of next season, no matter what "The Incredible One" manages to accomplish this season, if anything.

Man City on Wednesday night could be brilliant or fill us all with despair; let's hope it's a incredible masterclass of attacking football where everything goes right on the night!!!

Absolutely spot on. Never for a moment did I think Stones was not in control of the situation. The only concern I have is that he clearly said to himself "Fuck me" as the camera went on him after he's given the "relax" gesture.

As for Tottenham's goal, it was almost a carbon copy of a superb goal Alli scored a few weeks ago versus WBA:

http://youtu.be/ozeqSAwZIrg

I also feel we'll lose the likes of Stones and Lukaku unless we win the Carling and come out of this season's EPL with significant exit velocity. Over to the Incredible One (or Hyperbollock).

John Jones.

Great stuff John, just what we needed.

(ps, hope that didn't sound like abuse ;-) )

Charlie Austin to Everton...

Sadly for us he has no chance of developing his full potential under Roberto Martinez and Dennis Lawrence.

Sadder still, I think he already knows this.

Imagine if he did exactly that superb piece of control against us for one of the big boys – where so many of you now seem resigned to have him play his football in the future... they and the media would be crowing and purring simultaneously.

How so many can parrot the twatsih RedShite nonsense of Carragher should tell you in an instant how this should be judged. I mourned the loss of Rooney, and never forgave Moyes and Kenwright for that one. But losing Stones in this way will be far more pivotal in consolidating our long-term decline.

"We are where we are"... and sadly it's exactly what we deserve for our astounding lack of ambition.

He probably will be playing elsewhere next season and it will be big money earned for the club. So how about we enjoy what we have now and get behind him or is that too much to ask?

Stones has the skill to play at the highest level and I sadly believe it won't be with us. I still think he is amazing to watch and has more skill that any other CB in the country. He will develop his toughness in the coming years and will not just bully forwards but outfox them as well.