Martinez aware that only Champions League football can keep stars at Everton

I always believe you can replace a defender, at the end of the day their job is just to first and foremost defend, but a 25-goal-a-season striker is gold.

I just feel though that this was the one season we HAD to really push on for the top 4, as the season as progressed it looks like being more and more a missed opportunity, nearly every candidate has been in either transition or turmoil, from Liverpool to Manchester United to Chelsea.

Sadly I believe next season these teams will all be stronger under better management with better players.

We should have been one often more settled teams playing with roughly the same group since Martinez took over, we should have been up where Tottenham and Leicester are. The reason we are not is because we have not been good enough or consistent enough at winning matches.

We should have really speculated to accumulate last summer, we should have spent more money on rectifying problem areas, instead we spent little money on squad player's, apart from Funes Mori, but even he probably would have been on the bench if Jagielka had been fit. It definitely will be looked back on as a missed opportunity.

Whether we want Europa is another debate but it might be enough to keep the better players for at least another year. He can play Howard tomorrow for me then bring Robles back in for the big games!

I agree Brian the defence looked so much more relaxed on Wednesday night and you could even feel it with the fans.

My understanding is that negotiations are ongoing. The sticking point is Stone's representatives wanting a release clause inserted.

He is contracted currently until 2019 so Everton agreeing to a release clause just makes us a hostage to fortune around the timing of any sale, ie it could be triggered in this transfer window.

I suspect he won't be signing a new contract and will be off in the Summer. If the club are resigned to that there is no point giving him an extra –30k a week or so for six months.

Although I would hate to see him leave it will happen, the important thing is we plan for it and have a replacement lined up.

How is Lukaku getting on with his heading?!!!!

The only way I want the Europa League next season is if it's the result of us winning a trophy.

It's not worth getting in it just to hear it become an excuse for another season of poor league form, last year too many fans were ready to make it as an excuse for our failings.

Last summer was our opportunity to build on the potential by bringing in some quality players to challenge. Shaqiri was the big one for me and then the Yarmolenko debacle for example.

Let's hope one of these interested parties do decide to invest in our club and we are able to show these players what the future could hold for them and show ambition. Maybe even look to bring in De Boer and then invest heavily in some top quality players this summer instead of selling them. Am I asking too much? Maybe...

Stones may well end up a top defender, but at the moment, he has a lot to learn, and is replaceable. Lukaku, is now one of the World's top strikers, and his improvement means that naturally, he will demand CL football. Why would he stay for another season with us in mid-table. He has done his bit, he has banged in the goals and got himself fitter, and his hold-up play and touch has improved too.

Martinez is to blame for the team's underperformance, with his favouritism, poor balance, and baffling subs. A chance wasted, which may not come again for many a year.

It is a shame, as we are not far off being a really good side, as we have shown in the last two games, but it is too little too late.

There is no value in a release clause to Everton. It takes away our ability to sell when we want and puts an upper cap on how much we can get. A release clause only works in the players favour.

Typically you would only allow a release clause if you needed a player to sign a contract. ie a new signing or a player nearing the end of a contract. To insert it into a contract for a player with three and a half years would not make commercial sense.

In my opinion whether we pay John Stones £30k a week or £70k won't make much difference because if he is determined to move it is likely he will play for a CL team and earn £150k.

We can all see the improvement, and is probably the reason for a lot of frustration, but I want our manager to become more than a youth development coach.

My own view is that a taste of silverware, would give the players a lot more confidence in their undoubted ability as a team, and might just make them think, they want to stay together for a bit longer. After all they all seem genuinely happy playing for Roberto Martinez, at the minute.

To Martinez's credit, the fact that we have youth that good/valuable is testament to having a good eye on potential and nurturing it. Plenty of other managers would spunk a lot more on rubbish. Lukaku, Besic, Galloway, McCarthy, Deulofeu, Funes Mori, Cleverly, Robles are very decent players at a good age. Lennon and Kone are reasonable squad players. Stones and Barkley have been managed well. McGeady and Alcaraz a total waste of cash unfortunately.

But I don't see us troubling top 4 – although we need to have a go to keep the complete squad for sure.

I expect we'll lose Lukaku and Stones but I want to enjoy them playing in cups and league for this season at least.

What you forget though is how many top quality players are you going to attract to Everton once they see big names like Lukaku, Stones leaving?

You might have loads of dosh but with no Champions League to offer the best players and a reluctance to pay big wages sales of Lukaku and Stones wouldn't see the necessary team building for a top 4 challenge you imagine I'm afraid.

I can't believe anyone wants to lose Lukaku just to replace him with some untested youth player, that's what's likely to happen though.

If we think we've had it hard this season, I fear next season may try the patience even more!

If Sterling is worth £50m, then Lukaku is worth £65 million. And I wouldn't let Stones go for any less that £45m. I feel that this year is our last chance to have a winning team, before it all falls apart in the summer.

May be we will lose our best strikers to Champions League participants but not everyone can play at the highest level otherwise there wouldn't be a higher level.

When David Moyes was here it was generally between us and Martin O'Neill's Villa side vying for a top 5 or even 4 slot .

This was a Villa team that included Ashley Young, Gareth Barry, James Collins, John Carew, Martin Laursen, Stilyan Petrov, James Milner, Brad Friedel in goal.

The list goes on but they were big characters, seasoned Premier League players that knew how to win.

Just look at the state of Aston Villa now!
Can they attract those type of players nowadays?
I'd struggle to name you the full Aston Villa team at present.

It'd just an example of how quickly it can change when you keep losing your best players, we should kniw it happened to us in the mid 90's, selling off the likes Kanchelskis, Stuart, Gary Speed, replacing them with dross like Farelly, Tyler, to name a few.

The landscape can quickly change.

That is still in our control and we don't need to insert it into a players contract to achieve it.

The Board just say to themselves, we are not selling for less than £50m for instance, job done

Lukaku
Stones
Barkley
Deulofeu

Add to that the fact another quality international footballer in his prime Mirallas will leave, it's going to be damn hard to find the right type of experienced quality players to replace them.

That's before the squad lads like Hibbert, Osman, Pienaar, Gibson, McGeady, Oviedo – all players who just don't play anymore enough need replacing with squad players.

Then Kone is 33 this year, Jagielka 34 in August, Naismith leaving.

Yes, we have young players but you can't just field a bunch of 19-year-olds all over the pitch and the bench at once and expect them to deliver results.

The next 12 months are going to be a massive period where in my opinion we either go one way or the other.

Failure to do either of the above then the best players will leave, and who can blame them. Unfortunately the only people who will still be here is us fans, and if we lose our better players and stick with RM then I can't see us challenging the top half never mind top 4.

Let's not forget that West Ham will get greater revenue from moving to the Olympic Stadium. Spurs are also having a new stadium built and Chelsea are looking to move as well.

I maintains a self imposed communication blackout on the matter........

Until he scores the next one

I just hope that, if we get new owners, they will be ambitious and invest big money into the squad so that we can really challenge next season and the current crop of players will stay with us.

The very best players – and Stones and Lukaku are clearly in this category – will not only be sought by the glamour clubs, both home and abroad, but will wish to join them. The mouth-watering riches on offer are irresistible both to players, their families and agents – added to which is the far greater prospect of regular silverware.

The sad thing is that the years have changed what our Club can aspire to. Where mere qualification to compete in the preliminaries of Champions League is our very worthy goal, the really big clubs can offer a decent chance of competing to win it. To them "Channel Four on a Thursday night" is an insult!

So, sad that it may be, don't let's think ill of our young players for wanting away or our Board (whoever they may be) come summertime! It's just the market forces of football. The real challenge will be spending the money wisely!

We are only 9 point from 4th position. It looks like Man C and Arsenal will contest 1st position but the other top two positions are quite achievable for Everton if Martinez is now switched on and gets it.

I think you are right. I supposed the good news is that for an outlay of just over £30m in three years,that has turned into £100m+. If you throw Barkley into the mix, although I think he is the least likely to go you are at £150m. I guess a sale valuation for the club of £200m doesn't seem that wide of the mark.

That is a serious transfer pot, the risk of course as we have seen is spending it wisely as you point out.

Players come and go, it's our club that is the constant.

Better to sit down with them and try to find out what is the longest we can persuade them to stay for.

Personally I would think that whereas Stones and Lukaku might be off this Summer Barkley, Deulofeu and any others could be persuaded to stay for at least one more year. That way we will not be having to replace half the team in one go.

I wonder what sort of fee we might demand for them?

Stones- £40-50m
Lukaku- £50-60m
Barkley- £30m

All pie in the sky but potentially it could be nearly £150m for the crown jewels. Hope the scouts are finding some good targets...

I don't feel they are coming in for any other purpose than profit.

ps: I've been reading too much about what's happened to the Villa!

They should be at a high level, playing in an established system and able to step into the first team at any time. Sure some will be making more mistakes than others but we have to be ok with that as they develop.

If the team overall is doing well – and it should be challenging top 4-6 – then most will stay, a few of the most valuable can go to allow the next talented player gametime to develop. Cup wins and Europa should be achievable, in time CL and top four. Many £10s of millions will be earned (far more than when winning FA cups etc).

If however one or two players are overpaid to the extent that the rest of the squad suffers (we don't have to look too far to find examples), then we would be in a far less stable situation requiring a lot more money to fix – and we don't yet have it to waste.

Overspending on 'star' players from other clubs and hiring 'star' managers is a way to club/team instability and spending a lot of money. We stopped doing that in 2002(?). Consequently we are the ONLY British owned club without access to huge budget that has consistently finished in top half PL for a decade or more.

"Just so you know, even if we win the Capital One Cup, Lukaku and Stones will be going. I've massively ballsed the Premier League up because, to be fair, I'm massively out of my depth. I promised them 4th place, we're not going to get it, so they'll be going."

"Oh and now that the half-season ticket sales period has finished, don't be expecting any further news about some sort of magical takeover. We fed that bull out to the media and they drank it up like a thirsty dog in the desert."

"Myself, Tim Howard, Hibbo and Ossie look forward to seeing you at Goodison again next season and for many more years to come"

"Best wishes"

– Roberto Martinez.

Our only hope is a takeover which will hopefully change the dynamic of the club (if it happens).

I'm worried that this summer could prove very damaging for our club with a mass exodus of key players, and a relegation battle on our hands.

I hope I'm proved wrong – I pray I'm wrong.

Stones and Lukaku have much more rounded abilities and hence will have multiple suitors. The good news is that should result in value maximisation. From that view point a release clause for Stones makes no sense for Everton.

It would break my heart to see Geri leave. Barca if they chose can have him back for a modest fee. If Barca will lose one of their galacticos to a Pep inspired Citteh, Geri could then get a look in. Hope to god that particular move does not happen.

I don't think you are far wrong. We would most likely need a minimum of 40 points and possibly as many as 45 to finish top 4.

Even at the lower end that looks something like W12 D3 L3.

We have the players to achieve that but whether we have the playing system and tactics I doubt.

'The Yanks you heard about are close mates of Robert Earl who were happy to play along with the Board's games to sell half-season tickets. The search for investment goes on 24/7 but if it doesn't realize anything, the players will have to go!'

Really?

Didn't Alan Hansen say something along those lines before Man Utd won the title?

The article talks about top 4. This season is the most open at the top than it has been for years.

This season, with this squad, was the ideal time to get in the top 4 and we have blown it.

We will all look back on this season and have various opinions on why we have messed up so badly, however, ultimately, it will be down to one man and his stubborn intransigence

Nowadays few,if any,players are bound to their clubs or fans by 'loyalty' and when they bleat about 'winning cups and medals' as their excuse for taking off we all know that MONEY and lots of it is their only reason.

Everton unfortunately are in no position to compete on a level playing field in the Premier League or Europe with a manager as set in his ways as Martinez, and as painful as it is I can't realistically see us doing a treble over Man City in the next couple of weeks but as a loyal 'to the grave' Evertonian, I live in hope.

United's class of 92 was a complete one-off that included greats like Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, bit what Alan Hansen and perhaps you failed to mention is the backbone of the Manchester United team was..

Peter Schmeichel
Gary Pallister
Steve Bruce
Eric Cantona
Roy Keane.

I bet they helped the bunch of kids along the way, all men who were title winners and great players .

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I think we need a few years for these young players at Everton are deemed good enough for top 4 potential.

Sorry if that sounds negative but four years ago I heard fans talking about fantastic future prospects Tolis Vellios and Gueye, before that it was Matt McKay or Michael Branch and Danny Cadamarteri.

It's not worth going over the top with grand predictions too soon.

Contracts or not, players call all the shots and if they want to move on they will. Look where playing hardball got Brenda!
What we should do is enjoy this motherlode whilst it's ours rather than getting too emotional about what may happen to it in the future.

However, I find it incredible that our manager is basically saying our best players can leave in the summer. We have ZERO chance of being in the top 4 come May so saying only CL will keep the likes of Rom and Stones is almost sack worthy.

I just hope the new owners materialise and we get a proper manager in this summer. A class act at the helm would be enough to keep the better players (assuming the new man wanted them...).

I'm not fussed about losing Stones. He may turn into a great defender in a couple of years time but his basic defending still needs to improve a great deal.

Cash in while the going is good. Rom is the one we should move Heaven and Earth to keep!

We are in January and have won just 6...

Absolutely no chance!!

No way Jose (Roberto).

It is possible to get into Europe, if not through a Cup, then the top 6. However, this is also a long shot. It is just like last season, when Roberto hoped that winning the Europa League would get us into the CL. Alas, it wasn't to be, as we malfunctioned in Kiev.

Now all hopes lie in the Cups. The tie with City is at half-time and we have a slender lead. If we progress, we will have only an evens chance of beating the RS or Stoke.

So much is at stake as, despite Martinez's comments, surely a piece of silver on the cupboard would entice the would-be superstars that something special is about to happen. The worst case scenario, is to lose the semi, or the final, and only finish 8th. It would definitely mean goodbye to 2 of our lads.

This game with City is gaining in importance... remember the Milk Cup final in '84. We lost it on a replay, but it gave us confidence, and we went on to win the FA Cup a few months later.

Teams can grow during these momentous games, and there are signs that this bunch have it in them to build on the first leg. It is the most important game in our recent history.

This means that sooner or later our best players will be off. It is the same with other clubs – Spurs lost Bale and now Kane is being linked with Real Madrid. You can't blame them – would you or I not move to triple our wages?

So we need to recruit well, and to be fair we have got in some excellent players pretty cheaply over the last decade. Let's hope we can continue to do so.

Interesting to speculate, but it is really interesting to see the dynamic of the club changing with a more than 4 right young things lighting up the future. Stones and Lukaku may well go, or they may sense the future really does look promising as a group.

Like everyone else I have been really pleased with the recent displays of Besic and it led me thinking as to our future first team in 12 months time. A 4-3-3 set up could well be:-

Robles, Holgate, Funes Mori, Galloway, Garbutt, McCarthy, Besic Cleverley, Barkley, Toshiba, Leandro.

I would like to see McAleny in the mix too.

Bollocks to worrying about if/when players will leave – live your footballing life more in the moment and try to garner at least a little joy out of it!

You just have to accept the fact that the likes of Stones and Lukaku have been told to give this season one more shot and then you're free to go. They WILL leave in the summer.

Quite a paradox, that!

"That doesn't mean we are going to sell them if we don't get in the Champions League, but you wouldn't want to keep a player that doesn't want to represent our shirt either. You have to be realistic."

To me he's saying – I'm trying to put together a young, dynamic team which will of course draw attention from the monied clubs in the Champions League. If any of those players show a desire to leave, and become unhappy as a result of being forced to stay at Everton (in the even of not making the Champions League) then of course we'd have to listen to offers.

This is the nature of football and nothing new or worrying. Nature of the beast.

The big problem for me is selling Lukaku, his stats will already have him as one of the hottest property strikers in Europe @ 22 years old, and a guy who is very transparent with his desire to be the best striker in the world. How do Everton come close to replacing him, the simple truth is a striker who's performance / goal scoring records that come anywhere close to Rom's would not even consider us, because they too will be looking at joining Europe's elite.

So my solution to the problem? Sell Stones and screw every last penny from the highest bidder, increase Lukaku's salary to a new level from what we are used to at Goodison - £150k a week?? and use the Stones fee to go big on a couple of top top class players, Yarmolenko? Butland? and maybe a cheeky bid to get Rooney back........

£40mil seems a lot for Stones but he's still a kid, is totally unique and will be wanted by many clubs. Lukaku is fast becoming a world-beater and everyone knows it. Definitely among the top ten strikers in Europe, he'll command a very large fee.

Whatever happens, I can only see us getting stronger. Okay, we'll miss the big fella, of course we will but we'll splash the cash on a proven goalscorer and replace the unused squad players with the likes of Rodriguez, the Grasshopper lad and one or two other fresh faces. Roll on.

Regarding Lukaku and Stones, our only hope is that the Americans come on board and can persuade them that over the summer we can shore up our weaknesses to make it worthwhile them giving it another season.

Otherwise it will be déjà vu all over again.

However, they are part of the side that's in 11th! Stones has made plenty of mistakes and Big Rom despite being superb could have wrapped the points up v Swansea and Norwich to name but two games! They owe us at least another crack at it I'd say!

So, for as long as the dream lasts, let's all enjoy it together. In years to come, perhaps the younger generation will talk about 'the Man City night' just as we do 'the Oxford experience'!

If BK and Co remain at the helm, players will be sold, Martinez will stay, and very tough times will face us.

I prefer to edge towards optimism, and maybe next season, under new ownership, Everton will rise again.

Let's hope so!

Of course, I've never rated Martinez – and still don't – but credit where credit is due!

Well that's the theory. But has our board got that vision? We are long suffering Everton after all. Let's sell our best players. Show no long-term vision. Bring through more youngsters, then sell them also, when Man Utd or Man City come a calling. And also can Martinez be trusted to bring in the quality that we need to mount a title challenge. Can he find another Funes Mori or will he bring in another Alcaraz. A Deulofeu or a McGeady.

And can we win the league. Managed the right way. And with the right players. Why not. I honestly think that things are starting to level out. Get in the right quality. Take our chances. Keep our best players. Next season could be ours. Well I can dream.

And of course, you know this for a fact do you? Well, I'll tell you something, those two will still be here next season. Accept that as a fact.

They both have more than there years left. It's going to take crazy money before they go.

They can't just walk out.

If they, or more likely their agents have a problem with that, tough.

Do we say, "you're on a long contract, you're going nowhere, tough shit"? This summer's Stones episode notwithstanding, I don't recall too many happy endings from such a stance. Look at Berahino at West Brom.

Bobby is pretty much setting out the stall: "That doesn't mean we are going to sell them if we don't get in the Champions League, but you wouldn't want to keep a player that doesn't want to represent our shirt either. You have to be realistic."

However with the length of time left for both, the club are in control.

Only crazy money would see them go.

Doesn't matter a hoot how much the agents agitate, the players won't go unless the fee is very much in Evertons favour.

A bit of reverse psychology going on here I think.

Or is just because I am an Evertonian and certified 3/4 full(!) optimist to boot?

I'm rarely, if ever, on the same page as Roberto. But, as he says, you have to be realistic.

Anyway, enough of this speculation, let's crack on and see if he can make a silk purse out of this sow's ear of a season.

I'll get back to my beverage and the spectacle of seeing a second string RS keeper even worse on crosses than our own first-choice guardian.

Or not, let's save that for another day!

I'd love both of them to stay and build something special but the modern footballer only seems to be interested in accruing money and a medal or two.

Gutting.

On a brighter note at least the players who get sold will be known as former Everton players, yes clutching at straws.

The only thing that surprised me is that a lot of fans thought we would improve on last season's, the league table tells us otherwise.

Top four was a realistic target this season with the players we have and the transition of a lot of the other league sides, but our manager is not good enough to compete at that level.

Look at Vardy and Igalo, they've pushed their average sides right up the league with similar goal scoring runs as Lukaku. Managers like Kiki Sanchez and Alan Pardew have pushed their sides up the table with good management, they know what their sides are good at and maximize on it.

Spurs have Harry Kane and a solid defence and that is enough to keep them in the mixer, and Man Utd are just a solid outfit which has kept them up the right end of the table despite LVG being hammered.Even Liverpool are above us with their piss-poor team, having sacked a manager.

It's unbelievable that Martinez is now talking about players leaving if we can't deliver Champions League football; he's basically admitting that if any player goes public for a move, then they will leave... How easy is he making it???

The best players end up playing for the best clubs.

£50 million each. And that would be cheap.

i) Defensive frailty;
ii) Lack of Plan B.

Martinez's view of his approach would likely be that he ultimately has a pure football ideal that he's trying to instil (to hold the ball, keep it on the deck and keep attacking).

My view is that this is all very good if you have clear superiority in all areas over opponents (as Barca and Bayern have for instance) or are playing in a slower-paced game but is naive in the extreme considering our position, the pace and the comparable quality levels of the Premier League.

I can't think of a single team who've won the league without having a tight defence and being able to win ugly when needed. Chelsea embodied this approach and, to be honest, despite the rose-tinted claims of current fans, for large swathes of Ferguson's tenure, so did Man Utd. Yes, both sides could turn on the style and had quality, but it was married to superb keepers and back fours and the nous to know when to get behind the ball, break up play and grind out a win.

Likewise, for all of Aguero's and Silva's beautiful forward play, Man City's successes and failures can be pretty much mapped onto the fitness and form of a few key players all who have a defensive role – Hart, Kompany and Toure.

The only team in the top 4 that has tried to play a more pure version of possession / attacking football is Wenger's Arsenal and – despite some amazing attacking players and a few handy defenders – it has time and again proven to fall short. There's no coincidence in my mind that this year's uptick is down to the fact their major transfer of the summer was in bringing in a genuinely world class keeper.

Ultimately pretty much every fan can see that our defensive strategy is flawed. It's not down to the wrong players (the same back 5 under Moyes was one of the tightest in the league) or a lack of numbers (with 2 defensive mids and a back 4, with one up front should be able to shut up shop) it's the fact that these players aren't encouraged to think defence first, to sit back, double up and scrap it out and launch the ball. The less said about our organisation for corners and crosses, the better...

Obviously we don't have to play this way the whole time with this defensive mindset, but we need the ability to shift it up when needed and this is the thing that ultimately really dogs Martinez. He just seems unable to alter the flow of the game with changed tactics or clever substitutions (in timing and selection).

In his first season, I genuinely do believe there was a perfect storm of a team that had the ingrained defence-first approach and habits plus extreme fitness that Moyes had drilled into the players over 10 seasons, married with Martinez's ideology of attacking license (and a couple of inspired loan signings) plus an element of surprise in the minds of other teams who had grown used to playing Everton a certain way.

As the defensive habits and, to a degree, obsession with fitness were trained out or left to languish in favour of relentless passing, we've become increasingly a pure Martinez team. Whilst this has made us pretty great to watch for the neutral (and parts of the game at least for us) and capable of competing in every match for a period, it has ultimately come at the cost of lost points and subsequent league position.

I don't dislike Martinez as a guy and I'm not naive enough to believe we deserve to be sat in the top 4 simply because of our history or even some quality players, but equally I don't think that he's going to change and whilst his approach could easily win us a cup, it's extremely unlikely to get us any closer to a Champions League berth.

I really don't rate RM at all but his decision to buy Lukaku was a masterstroke. The problem is how could we ever replace him? £50 million is far too cheap for a striker with such massive talent so early in his career. There is no reason why he shouldn't eventually be an £80 million player as good as Bale or Ronaldo.

It is really very easy to understand!!

Lescott.

A player can attempt, if they wish, to back a club into a corner. We all know this. If Stones had employed the same tactics as Lescott to engineer a move, it's highly likely he wouldn't be playing for us now.

Is it because he's seeking to blame the "lesser" players that unless they pull their fingers out right now their/our futures will be nowhere close to rosy (not that the present is remotely acceptable to most of the fans)?

Is it because he wants to tell the present due-diligencers, whatever their motive, that there'll be a real need for player investment from them on top of ground redevelopment?

Is he telling the current set-up the same thing?

Is he trying to varnish his own obituary as and when he's dismissed after stupendously failing to achieve his own mandate with a group of players who with proper management could and should have been expected to rival the likes of Leicester City and Spurs this season?

Hopefully the last.

Some problems with your simplistic reasoning.

Firstly it is unlikely any team will want to hold onto a player for any length of time who has explicitly stated they want away. We have seen it time and time again. Ronaldo, Suarez, Sterling or in our case Lescott, Rooney, Fellaini. An unhappy player in the dressing room will be counter productive both to their performance and morale in the squad.

Secondly and most importantly you cannot afford to let a £50m player's contract run out. To hold on to John Stones for three and a half years would cost the club about £15m a year as he would walk away for free at the end of it.

So whilst players and clubs are bound by contractual law the reality of the situation is should a player wants to leave he will.

It is really very easy to understand.

Because I'm assuming there was a conversation that went along the lines: "You are not going this season, give it a year and we will see where we are."

Of course, contractually you can do that but not in the longer term, in fact both Ronaldo and Suarez played a further season after looking for moves, but they both went.

It may also have been of course Chelsea never met our valuation.

And of course the longer you let the contract run down the more risk of teams saying, "I tell you what, I won't pay you 㿞m; I'll wait a couple of years and take him for free."

Contractual obligations do play a part but there are other factors in play. It's not as simple as you suggest that the club is completely in control.

Your first paragraph is a statement of fact.

Your second paragraph is to be seen, but I very much doubt that is how it will play out. We will see, of course.

Now it's time to leave for the match.

Maybe it's the board saying if you don't make top 4 Bobby where selling your toys and sacking you. After all he has failed to deliver his promise and looks unlikely to turn it around now.

If indeed like most on here think that we have missed a opportunity through bad management then are the board seeing the same things. I doubt it as they will be happy with survival and making huge profits on a couple of players. We know that only a small proportion of the profit will be reinvested into replacing players. But as long as next season we can steady the ship and stay afloat for yet another mediocre season's then the merry go round of football madness will continue.

This month and in the summer is exactly the same as last summer. The club absolutely has the choice not to sell.

When you accept that these players are 'forcing moves' and the club has 'no choice but to sell' you're letting our owners off the hook. They do have a choice, and we should hold them accountable for making the right choices for the club.

As fans, we need to be above this Sky TV 'Boo hoo, you can't just tell a player to stay and fulfill his contract' crap. Of course you can. You've just been told you can't by the television and owners who cash a cheque for millions in return for perpetuating the myth.

Players have too much power, it's time all clubs followed Everton's example last summer and make them honour them. If a player performs badly, which top club would want to sign them?

Why don't we wait until the summer and see what unfolds. Quality players like Stones and Lukaku are sought after and will always get prized away sooner than you think.

Unless the incredible one has some sort if special mind powers I would be amazed to see either player in Everton shirts after this season, money talks and if a player wants to leave that unfortunately becomes reality most of the time.

We will get top dollar for both players so it will be up to us to get the maximum fee we can....£50 million minimum each to start the bidding...