Martinez: Too early to judge Stones

Despite agreeing with most of what he says about John the lad does need to be told, in no uncertain terms, when he's screwing up.

The point is, Bobby mate, 35 full EPL games was enough games for Mourinho to decide he was worth £38m+. It took just 67 games for SAF to judge Rooney.

You buy players from other countries almost every window, if they haven't played 100 games in the EPL, how do you judge them to be good enough for Everton?

Fans adore him at Everton but unfortunately the same fans are restless because the clown in charge isn't able to do his job properly.

We have been grumbling during games of late but the reason for that is we are massively under achieving.

The board need to man up and sack Martinez, his record proves he is not good enough to manage Everton or John Stones, he's not good enough to manage any Premier League side.

"I think as a player we speak with every single individual and make sure that every day is a day you can improve as a footballer in any aspect," he replied.

Talk about a bullshit, evasive answer! About 10 more words in the sentence than there needs to be. How does the kid learn if the manager doesn't coach him? Answer: the crowd educate him – never the best way to learn!

You know who had the same issues? Coleman. Four years ago he was a defensive train wreck waiting to happen. Like Stones, he had the speed and innate tackling ability but none of the positional instincts. Unlike Coleman, he had a manager who taught him those fundamentals. Thanks to Moyes – and it was a laborious process – Coleman gradually improved into a pretty damn decent man-on-man defender.

The concern with Stones is that he HASN'T improved. He's still making the same fundamental positioning errors he was making in October. And it's pretty obvious Roberto hasn't been focusing on it. He should long ago have pulled Unsworth off the U21s bench to give Stones some private lessons in getting down and gritty.

If we have not seen enough to justify hiring a defensive coach to provide additional coaching to our players, then it only proves that RM is not adequate. Either stubbornness, insanity or any other reason, his true colors are bare for everyone to see now.

Howard may or may not be equally culpable but if we're playing a frail defensive shape that depends on the GK playing an out of the world game every single minute of every game to keep us in the game, it is time to change the man making the tactics, especially when he is not going to change his thinking anyway.

That does not mean RM has to be fired, since his recruitment has been very well received, but definitely we need better brains during coaching and at the touchline directly the game. (Though I won't miss him if he's gone.)

We're near the bottom of the form table, so if this is not crisis, I don't know what is. At this rate, we'll be in the relegation battle by game 30. Who wants to buy a club on the brink of relegation?

Excellent point. The difference I see is that Coleman is feisty and will get stuck in (more in his younger days) and isn't afraid of contact. Stones is.

A couple of times this season, replays have shown him actually standing flat-footed and turning away from the opposing player and the ball instead of going up for it. How does one teach a centre-back to like contact or at least accept it as part of the job?

Bring on the RS in the final.

In other words Stones, maybe like Barkley isn't really one for the physical side of the game whereas the likes of Rooney and as you say Coleman in his younger day's, seemed primed battlers.

We all know how good Stones is on the ball, hell we are told enough by Roberto, but I question whether he is really hard enough to be a truly great centre half.

Here's food for thought, I wonder if he may eventually be better suited to defensive midfield?After all we always thought Jack Rodwell would convert to centre-half did we not?

He's 21 years old. Why are some even questioning whether he'll get better? He will learn to position himself better. He will learn when to fuck about and when to get rid. He hasn't even stopped growing yet so I wouldn't worry about him being physical enough.

All the same bollocks was being spouted about Lukaku not long ago. Just let him play football and enjoy it while we can because we'll all be pissed off watching him go on to great things with some other club.

Craig Mills, spot on.

Aren't we playing City tomorrow in a semi final which we are already 2-1 up in? Shouldn't we all be buzzing? Fuckin miserable on here!!

Including yours.

68 games into his career, Stones is looking weaker and weaker as a CB. Deny that.

That he COULD develop? Sure, why not. Has he developed the basic skills of his position under this coaching staff? We both know, the answer is no. And under this coaching staff he won't.

Have to add something, the coaching staff aside.

Stones is soft.

The majority of our first teamers this season have been youngsters - I'm talking Lukaku, Stones, Barkley, and Delboy. Throw in Galloway, and Funes Mori, in place of Baines and Jags for good parts of the season, and we're inexperienced throughout the team.

Would other managers leave their team so exposed, with so many youngsters in the firing line ? Probably not, but by playing these kids, they have now become incredibly valuable assets. Since we remain a club with little money to spend, that will stand us in good stead, should richer teams come with a fat chequebook.

Will we get relegated this season ? No. Will these inconsistent young players turn up tomorrow night, and put in a big performance ? Undoubtedly.

Can a Martinez team go to a big four team, and win away from home ? Yes. Did a Moyes team achieve the same, over 11 years ? We all know the answer to that one, even with "legends" like Cahill, Arteta, and Rooney.

Rio Ferdinand is calling Stones the best defender of his generation, and imploring fans to get off his back, and let him develop. Rio Ferdinand, the best English centre back since Bobby Moore, arguably. I'm happy to listen to him.

James #20 and Jim #17, I disagree that Stones is soft – every tackle is crisp and he never pulls out. And I think a CB can be great without being a "hard" man and getting stuck in. I believe he's simply lacking in the defensive fundamentals, including how to use his hips, shoulders and forearms to move an attacker off-balance – BEFORE the ball arrives – and win in the air. Jags is an expert at it (as is that fucking prick at Chelsea). With the right instruction, and a couple more years in the weight room, he'll get there.

And the first time he knocks somebody like Costa or Giroux on his ass, it'll be his biggest step towards being world class.

Got to love the way our manager keeps the kids feet on the ground....

The lad already has enough to think about without Martinez saying he's the best thing since sliced bread!

(Hope the grass isn't too sticky tomorrow.)

Weaknesses and mistakes are overlooked and forgotten in the belief that they will automatically disappear once 100 games have been completed.

I wonder what our man would be saying if he had Spurs' Dele Alli in his team? The kid has only played 23 Premier League games as is leaving Barkley in his wake!

It's the coaching methods and tactics which are not up to the standard.

As for "Can a Martinez team go away to a big 4 team and win?"

We've played the established top four away 11 times in 2.5 seasons under Martinez, W1, D3, L7...
In the three years and 12 away games previous to this under Moyes. W1, D4, L7.

The home stats against the big 4 are just as identical...
RM pld 11 W4, D3, L4... DM pld 12 W5, D3, L4...

Barkley has undoubtedly not moved on at the speed or level anticipated after his World Cup selection.

He's too tentative in his play and lacks a real decisive edge to his game at the moment, despite him adding a few more goals to his game earlier this season.

Mentioning Delle Alli, well if only Ross possessed a bit of Alli's naughtiness or thunder to his persona.

Remedial coaching is, or should be, an important part of any player's development. Martinez is doing Stones no favours,by simply lavishing praise on him and sending him out to continue to make those same errors every week.

As many have mentioned it does look from his body language, as if Stones is starting to believe all the hype and think he's better than he is,and can do no wrong. If we have an under-performing child at school do we want his/her teacher to let them go on failing in the belief the situation will resolve itself by the time exam time comes around, or do we rightly expect the teacher to take action to help the child back onto the right track?

There are important lessons to learn in life but it appears Martinez is not mature enough to realise that sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. A short spell on the bench and some extra coaching (call it detention if you like), might go some way to getting Stones's feet back on the ground and his head out of the clouds.

Whilst each player is different and players will develop at different stages of their career, there are "windows" where players peak according to position.

Strikers tend to be at their best earlier. midfielders in their prime between 26-30. Central defenders at their best 28-34 and keepers arguably 30-36. The latter 2 areas because experience is required arguably more than the explosive instinct of of forward.

This is clearly applying a slightly sports science theoretical view and is just one view point that could be counter argued as it won't apply to every player however I think in the main it tends to work (statistically).

So what? We want them to be at their very best now but don't expect the best out of Ross consistently for a couple of years and Stones still has a long way to go despite the hype, although hype that is based on blatant potential. Hopefully when that comes, it will be with Everton.

Souness spot on with his comparison to Hansen on Sunday by the way.

Under our charlatan of a manager he will only learn to be a show pony and will never fulfil his full potential. Harsh thing to say as I selfishly want him to stay, but really would u want to work with Frank Abignale aka Bobby Martinez?

As far a comparison to Delle Alli at spurs: there us no comparison as far as I'm concerned. Again I know I will get slated but I would sell as soon as we can whilst his stocks high. Shame because he's a massive blue, but we could buy better for the money we would get right now.

I don't know what others think but from his body language and expressions I don't think he looks fully happy and confident at the moment.

I hope he stays at Everton for many seasons but worry that he may leave in the Summer.

Anyone else noticed that Jags, Bainesy, Gareth Barry (experienced players) don't bollock Stones when he cocks up or farts around? It's because they are told NOT to by our useless bloody manager. Oh no, we can't have that can we? That will only make the poor lad nervous and heap pressure on his youthful shoulders!

Martinez says Stones will become an all time England great (just what the lad doesn't need to hear!) that Gareth Barry IS an all time England great, Lukaku IS the best striker in European football and Deulofeu IS the best young talent in Europe. If all that is the case then why is the deluded idiot leading the best squad we've had in years towards a relegation fight? (On current league form, that's a fact.)

Get rid of this ridiculous manager and maybe Stones and the rest of them have a chance. If not let Stones move on and fulfil his potential under someone who knows what they're doing.

MARTINEZ OUT and Everton have a chance.

When we have ironed these issues out, we sell him to another club after 100 games or so, who reap the fruits of our club's efforts and our supporter's angst.

Is that it? When did the supporters sign up for that one when they bought their season tickets, Bobby?

Certainly Bob via his soothing words, will NOT get the best out of him. Maybe it is time for the hair drier treatment, or, dare I say it, some time on the bench for young Mr Stones.

My guess is we're missing a holding midfielder – to stay put, be the provider, control the game. Not had anyone replace Arteta in that role. and that's why so many of our quick attacks end back at Howard causing frustration in the team and in the stands.

This would be my No 1 priority – wither get in a holding midfielder or train one up. This person is the main outlet from the back and main distributor going forward. It's a must in my humble opinion. And as long as we don't have one then we cannot afford to mess around at the back.

The softly softly approach Martinez advocates can work in certain situation but when the end results is a player who turns off and cannot detect danger then the outcome becomes more serious and he needs to be taken aside and coached or drooped for a couple of games to get the message home.

Maybe centre half is not his best position and I agree with Jim Benning that maybe he is best suited to a defensive midfield role in front of the back four.Let's hope there are no defensive cockups tonight against Man City.

It looks to me that the players are often confused, as if his instructions aren't clear enough. If he talks to them like he talks to the press I could understand why.