Everton vs West Ham United

Let me be clear I'm a Hammers fan but Everton have always been my second team.

The only thing I don't like about Everton at the moment is the "Martinez" attitude summed up by Rob Hooton's comment:

"But then we may need one of our DM's to do a number on Payet (how I wish we had signed him!)."

McCarthy already did that and since that incident, while I still love your club, a lot of respect has gone out of the window.

If we play to our strengths, we'll win this. If we invite pressure and dawdle in possession I fully expect disaster.

Really we keep saying we are due a big performance (and win) at home but it just seems to repeat itself game after game. Even after a relatively strong first half against West Brom in the second half we completely disappeared.

West Ham will be a big test, our defence (which has also been appalling at Goodison Park) will need to be bang on form to keep out the threat they now pose.

A hard game, but we are no longer in a position where we can say a draw will suffice.

I think we need to win two of these three home games, if not all three even! It won't be easy but we are bloody due some wins here.

Can't agree with your assessments of Romelu Lukaku and Kevin Mirallas. (My spell-checker always turns Mirallas into "miracles", I wish). Lukaku benefitted from excellent kicking from Joel Robles and got on the end of virtually all to some extent. He didn't benefit from decent, quick service from the midfield. The only time he did in the first half his blocked showy went for a corner from which we scored.

Credit to Mirallas for the decent corner, I assume this was one of the assists you record. He also made the pull-back for the second goal in a 4-on-4 break but, without sounding like "What else did the Romans do for us"... er... what else did he do? In comparison to Aaron Lennon he was so poor. Both are expected to attack their full-backs but are given licence to roam. Lennon does this and is constantly involved to good effect, this was Mirallas's big chance and he was largely anonymous in my view. In the absence of Tom Cleverley, Mirallas will probably get the nod tomorrow but can't say he deserves it after Tuesday's performance.

I was by no means alone on Tuesday at being furious with the slap-dash involvement of Ross Barkley in the second half. Anyone up for trying a different number 10?

Everton need to start when the whistle blows and not stop until the final whistle, not starting like it's a display game or upping the game when one down, fast and plenty of movement by the team and stop playing statues waiting for the ball to find them.

I know the team is better than the way have played but they have to turn it on, cannot stand another RM saying how much possession we had, how unlucky we where and how crap the ref was, but we will get better for the rest of the season.

We simply must share some the blame here guys. I know plenty of fans say it's the style of play or are anti Martinez every move and substitution. I also know that when Navaz equalised for City in the semi final, Goodison did what it does best, it sang and supported its team. The result was we went down the other end and got the winner.

The players are paid a fortune but they are not robots. They play better and try things more when we get off their back. Here's hoping I'm not on my own supporting them positively on Saturday and trying not to jump down their throats when mistakes are made.

So I'd change the structure. Either go three at the back and counter, or go two up top and get right at them. Personally I think two up top should get the nod as we finally seem to have some confidence between keeper and centre halves. Stones' England chances can't be our concern – he'll have to earn his spot (which I think he will eventually).

If we just keep on doing the same thing at home and expecting a different result... we're getting into insanity territory aren't we?

Possibly the fact we have won just FOUR home games since last April and lost EIGHT tells you why we are a tad worried by the visit of a good West Ham side.

West Ham will look at the fact they have won at Liverpool, Arsenal and Man City and not exactly fear coming to Goodison.

If we lost at home to Swansea, Stoke, West Brom then again, we can lose at home to West Ham.

The only thing that might work in our favour is the fact we are West Ham's bogey team but then the laws of average brigade will come out saying every hoodoo has to end someday and tomorrow looks ripe for it.

I need further convincing by Martinez and this team before I get carried away, we've hit a decent enough run but not really played anyone other than Stoke, so let's see what this run of fixtures brings us.

Our back four is as good as any and it is not necessary to protect them with two defensive mids, particularly in home games.

My biggest worry is what if the game hinges on managerial decisions.

The chicken and egg simile is spot on. The players aren't robots but neither are the supporters. I think that there are supporters who are waiting for the team to kick it all off but are also half expecting the team not to.

So they have a mind set of almost waiting for the mistake/perceived slowness, the tippy-tappy, whatever aspect of our play makes them feel that "here we go again" and they'll cut the players little slack.

There's others who (mainly in the Street End) who do their best to create a supportive and enthusiastic atmosphere. There are majority, I think, who are bit of a mixture and want to get shouting in support but are a bit self conscious.

Anyway, some posts will object to this line of thought and fair enough. I can only say, that I believe it does have a big effect on the players.

Whatever the cause of it, the place is beginning to generate a real crap atmosphere. We don't have much control on who's picked or not but I think we owe West Ham one. I remember the witch hunt on James McCarthy. From the supporters, but even worse, from their Manager and there scumbag son of the Chairman. Just going on and on about it. When the tackle by Deir at the Tottenham match on Tom Cleverley was just as bad, or even worse.

I used to like West Ham but their owners are ghob shites so, I'll be giving them stick just for that.

These three can inspire the rest of the team and when the likes of Lukaku and Ross are up for it too, any opposition will be in for a tough test.

I don't care how they usually play, they'd be crazy to come at us in numbers when we are so predictable.

Good to hear WHU are missing so many defenders.

This is a game for McCarthy to keep Payet quiet, fairly this time.

Also, there should be no question of Stones getting back in. West Ham's forwards have been in good form lately and an understanding back there is what we need and it's what we've been getting in recent weeks.

If we lose this I'm away on holidays.

If Cleverley was fit then I'd pick him over Mirallas for Left midfield slot as I think his work rate and intelligence may be more useful than Mirallas pace and counter attacking. Though after a good display vs Villa perhaps Mirallas should be rewarded. Rest of the team pick itself:

Robles;
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Baines;
Besic, Barry;
Lennon, Barkley, Mirallas;
Lukaku.

More than overdue some decent performances at home. Tomorrow would be an excellent time to start though I predict a score-draw.

I think Martinez was quoted as saying that Mo would be okay for the West Ham game. He definitely gets the crowd going and I agree with you about Tom Cleverley but Mirallas deserves his place.

Good to have some top subs to call on as well...

Handy that West Ham finished the game v Spurs with 3 at the back, one of them a young kid, and one of them a midfielder. Only one recognised first team defender available would be very useful.

We're due a win at home, and I think them missing so many defenders is a big positive for us. Cleverley is still ill I think?

I see someone said the players are scared of playing at Goodison. Yes, that's right... but only under Martinez who sets the team up wrong in every home game. This obsession with THREE defensive midfielders (and I'm including Cleverley in that) when fit has to stop.

I'm predicting another poor result tomorrow, possibly a draw, given our struggles at our once fortress. I do hope I'm wrong but this manager instills no confidence in me whatsoever – especially at home.

That's a shame if Tom is still unwell, I just read on another post that he has a chest infection. Proving to be a good player for us.

I wonder if either Bryan or Bainesy will be alright for the game. Hope we've got one or the other alright. Not knocking Brendan, though, he always gets stuck in and likes to get forward as well.

What's been great to see is how Aaron Lennon is proving to be a pretty good buy for us and certainly is as good getting back and harrying their players, as well as causing problems in and around the opposition's penalty area.

He's such a hard worker, that his sometimes disappointing end product can be overlooked due to the amount of defensive work he does for the team.

I can't remember ever seeing a winger track back as much as Lennon does, and never with so much pace. We don't concede many crosses from that side with Lennon in the team.

If Martinez is serious about being here next season, he needs to start getting home wins against teams above us in the league.

Home form would suggest we're not going to win but given the pressure on RM, I'm hoping for something different. WHU have no less than 5 senior defenders out but then again scoring hasn't been our problem this season...

Will be a good test for us, will wait to see which Everton turns up. If we lose, then the manager only has the FA Cup to save himself.

This is when you miss a clever ball playing midfielder who can create openings for others, Its where we are lacking unfortunately. It's a pity Besic has been off injured so much, I think he would have grown into the player that would have given us more creativity in the middle.

It's going to be a tough game tomorrow, although the betting on the game 7/10 Everton 16/5 the draw 4/1 West Ham says that the bookmakers odds compilers think we are a good thing to win. I have to say that 4/1 West Ham does seem generous to me, even the draw at 16/5 looks big!

"What is important is we haven't lost anything in terms of the soul of our club."

(aka BBT / Bobby Brown Tongue)

Play for the crowd and the club, you will not be let down by the fans.

Will the arrival of Moshiri put enough pressure on BBS or will he revert to type and we see the same tippy-tappy shite we saw against Villa with the excuse we are still learning and jam tomorrow.

Will Rom put a shift in.Will super keg get us a goal or will the superior manager and team from the East End (this season anyway) prevail.

We can only hope our lads show up and their injury list affects them significantly.
Coyb

Barkley was mentally somewhere else the other night but Martinez and the team went into that game with the Hammers match uppermost in their minds and Ross will definitely give them trouble.

If, as Phil #2 points out, we drop off and invite them to shoot.....they will!!! Payet and Noble can both hit a postage stamp from 25 yards and this is another reason why we must not give away free kicks in dangerous areas. Unlike us, they put them away.

Bilic will have them well organized but they had a very hard game against Spurs and a fine home win is confidently expected.

I noticed in particular our recent target Byram is suspended after 3 yellows; from the few times I've seen him, I don't think Everton missed much by his decision to go 'dahn sarf'.

Sadly I won't be able to get the game here as we don't get the relevant feed so good luck to the boys and all at Goodison Park tomorrow.

Far be it from me to argue any football points with you, I've followed your comments for far too long!

However, this is not a knock at Cleverley but surely Mirallas is a far better fit out on the left and is a more attacking option than Cleverley, who I feel is a far better employed more centrally but we have Ross and 2 x defensive midfield players presently doing well enough to leave Cleverley on the bench.

Hope the fans have something to shout about and not moan about.

Sick of reading we must win this one, after every game. Watched a video clip of some irate Arsenal fan calling for Wenger to leave. Makes me laugh to think Bobby still has a job with us.

Best wishes from Lithuania and see you tomorrow. Win, draw or lose – ETID! (But I certainly hope to see a victory after flying in nearly 2,000 km for the game.)

I like a flat back four. Stones needs to show improvement in his defensive game. He lost his man the other night , when Villa scored. Not really blaming Stones,(the whole team slackened off), but his attempted challenge was rubbish. He needs to learn to attack the ball.... with his head. For an international back four... we still look(at times) jittery. Why is that? Is it down to slow tippy tappy? FFS that style of play needs to be booted into touch.(along with the ball) at times. And expect the usual two DMFs. OK, maybe against WHU we need them. But surely that tactic every bloody game, stiffles our attacking options.

I don't know about tomorrow. Will Everton turn up? We win two games...then everything usually goes pear-shaped. Will Lukaku show an interest? Will Barkley get into the game? Will Baines regain his old sparkle? Can Lennon keep his good form going? And what about Mirallas (should he play). Can he turn in a performance? Great to see Joel doing well. His run of games has been a real plus. I now expect no more stupid goals conceded.. Teams will have to work to score against us. No more gifts. Hopefully.

So many iffs and buts about our players , and our tactics. This team should now be in the zone. But as usual with Everton, we are hoping that something happens to spark our season......when it it almost over. As stated..the runway is getting shorter. The top 6 or 7 teams are getting up a head of steam for the last furlong. Martinez and Everton are "thinking" about it. As always , ever the optimist, I'm going for an Everton win. Will we concede? Yes if Stones plays. I'm going for a clean sheet, and The Toffees to win 2-0.

Last point. I know that Stones has many admirers. I also think that he is a talent. But what would be more valuable to Everton Football Club right now. Stones staying at Everton.......or £40 to 50 million to invest in a few quality players. Be honest. As stated above.....its not about selecting the best players.... it's about selecting the best team.

And three centre backs, plus two DMFs never works. IMO. Up the Toffees.

Like a couple of other posters above, if fit, I'd have taken Cleverley over Mirallas for same reasons and keep Mirallas and Deulofeu for second half.

Looking forward to seeing Besic come in and add some energy to midfield for at least one of the games this week.

Sticking with optimism. 2-0 to the blues.

So, with them needing points to dream of Europe and us needing to get our season back on track, I think we can win this but first goal will be vital.

Robles
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Oviedo (Baines)
Lennon, Barkley, Barry, Mirallas
Niasse, Lukaku

4-4-2

Will it happen?? Will it fuck...

I'm so pleased for Ramiro who's proved that bloody "expert on South American football" should take up Penquin watching. He's not afraid to boot it into Row Z if the situation demands it but he can also play it out, And do a Derek Mountfield.

I like Tom Cleverley, he's full of energy (well, not at the moment, as he's got a chest infection evidently) and does a lot of work on the left, and also likes to get forward and plays some great passes about. But Kev Mirallas should worry their Defence if he's anything like on form.

What I'd like to see,. is Ross Barkley get really would up and play as though he's getting right in their faces, as well as firing in a few shots with whatever foot he chooses.

Most of all, I think, like Dave Abrahams has said, paraphrasing this but "get stuck right into them"

If only we would take a leaf out of our neighbours' book who make up for being a very limited team by persistently pressing and hassling the opposition. We've got everything else but this part of our game is very lacking and is costing us points. Even against a very poor Villa team, we took our foot off the pedal and let them attack more. We have done this so many times this season.

On another note, I hope we play two upfront tomorrow from the off and get at them.

"Stuart actually managed to turn in a looped header from Bilic. For a few sweet seconds we all thought we were on our way. The offside flag soon put paid to that."

And yes, it was the Park End. And others saw it differently:

"Midway through the first half, we did force the ball into their net. Bilic won a header from a corner which Stuart forced over the goal line; mystifyingly, the referee disallowed it. At the next stop in play Bilic went and asked him why it had been disallowed -- the referee indicated that it had been a handball. Having now seen the replay this was a mistake. The handball was given against Stuart who clearly didn't handle the ball."

In fact, read our unique compilation of match reports here. Bilic was very well received in that first match...

Nothing wrong with Mirallis. A lone ranger but a constant goal threat.

Hope I'm wrong here, but isn't Tom Cleverley stricken with a chest infection?

West Ham under Bilic are very physical, Big Sam built this basis, they kicked us off the park at every opportunity. One robust challenge against a poor plucky West Ham player does not warrant a crappy comment like that.

Jeez how about the challenge on Cleverley at Spurs, another BBC favourite team, barely got a mention. It did not result in me losing respect for Spurs.

So, Roger, in the politest possible way I disagree, go away and grow a pair.

I certainly wouldn't endorse that and I don't believe Martinez does either. McCarthy's tackle was a poor one but he's not a malicious player and I would be very surprised if there was any pre-meditation in it.

Payet has been a joy to watch this season and many Evertonians have said he is exactly the kind of player we've needed, albeit perhaps youger and a little less expensive overall. But, I'm not going to lie, I felt a little relief when he had to be substituted in the game at Upton Park. That's not to say I was glad he was injured, just a compliment to his ability to change a game single-handedly.

Jim (52), Cleverley is a doubt with a chest infection, yes. I made reference to it in the original post above.

Cleverley is a different kettle of fish but he is intelligent and can see a pass, a quality we are sorely lacking from midfield.

I think Mirallas will get the nod over Cleverley due to his illness but I also think he probably deserves it given his assist midweek. After all, it's hard to reach peak performances through sporadic sub appearances.

What got my goat was the repeated, very, public comments by Bilic and by the son of the owner on James McCarthy's tackle.

Roger, I think you'll find the vast majority of Evertonians think a lot of West Ham and the tradition it's always had of playing good football and the fans were great working class people who loved the football played over the years.

Don't be swayed by the comments from people in very public and powerful positions, who ought to know better.

The poster who said "do a job" doesn't mean to imply a nasty tackle with the intention of injuring Payet. He's talking about the same kind of tackle that Mo did on Toure. A great tackle that Billy Wright would have been proud of.

Lyndon (59), Thanks for that. Knew I'd seen it today!

Yes we can score goals but..well you all know the rest.

At this stage of the season, I'm no longer getting worked up about team selections and/or substitutions as I think none of those things address the real problems we have (I won't go into detail again, but very basically, a combination of mental fragility and lack of leadership).

Hopefully, one way or another, we can do enough to get the win.

As for them, well if I was the mange-headed Hammers boss, I'd start with Carroll and just lob high balls in at him for 90 mins and watch the ensuing panic (hopefully Slaven is as idle a manager as he was as an Everton player and instead of swotting up and looking at tapes of our recent home games, he's spent his evenings at the Klub Swankiplumz drinking vintage Pomagne).

Have to say, given their present form, I'm surprised (some) bookies are offering 4/1 on WHU – seems very generous.

Up the Toffees!

(Note that WHU have since given him a new contract worth - I think - $125k p/w.)

That would have broken our wage structure and represented a significant outlay for a player who turns 29 this year. Pretty prudent based on the club's pre-Morshiri finances and I have no problem with it in principle.

In hindsight, of course, you wonder whether Payet would have had enough influence on our performances to make up the difference in merit prize money we'll currently losing by being 11th as opposed to 6th but at the time, the strategy seemed sound.

Things might be different going forward with the new investment, of course.

Before anyone knocks me for mentioning Rom in that way, it can't have escaped anyone's attention that his goals have rather dried up since Christmas and there have been games, recently where he really hasn't looked fully up for it, either because he's been carrying a knock or just had his head elsewhere. I really hope he hammers the Hammers today as he is good at doing, and maybe reaches 30 for the season, but he needs to more fire in his belly to get the crowd going as the first three players mentions are doing consistently at present.

Here's to a great game and, hopefully, three more points to push us up the table.

ps: I saw some stats yesterday that show Funes Mori is far and away our best defender this season in terms of tackles made, clearances and headers. Jags is next with Stones a long way behind in third.

Potential? Yes. Finished article? Not yet John. He has to improve his defending if he wants to recognised as a truly great...er...defender! Cut out the pretty stuff in the box and get down to basics again or he will simply become a highly valued luxury.

P.S. I hope Stonesy either starts or plays at some point today. It's criminal to leave a player like him on the bench.

I would like to see Baines start with Mirallas in front of him, preferably Besic if fit instead of Barry... and hopefully more than 9 mins for Niasse.

Robles
Coleman Jagielka Funes Mori Baines
Lennon McCarthy Besic
Barkley
Lukaku Niasse

Well its nice day so hopefully we can be up for it for the full 90 minutes and get a win

COYB

Barry
McCarthy
Lennon
Barkley
Cleverly

Lukaku

Change it with impact subs when needed.

It's interesting to read so many posters talking about needing a big tackle or something a bit 'narky' to get the crowd up for a game - I'm of the opinion that this is something old fashioned that you just don't see the best teams do/need to have a boisterous crowd anymore. It feels like a shame to me that supporters need some agro to get them fired up to support the team. I get it, people like that 'Sunday League/up & at em' approach but you're unlikely to see that sort of thing very much moving forward, in my view. I'd much prefer our support to just get behind the team from the off regardless of the situation - at all times. I know this won't happen as it's a cultural issue, ingrained in British supporters.

Anyway, moving on - really looking forward to the game today, and that's something else I've noticed in recent weeks. Quietly there has been less & less talk of intrepidation in the run-up to games which to me makes it feel as though people are more confident than they let on.

I've always been an admirer of West Ham - similar to us in many ways and I think both sets of fans realise that. I also like Bilic, and his scruffy, don't give a shit attitude - he seems to be a decent manager too.

The season hinges on the next few games so we have nothing to lose now - attack with purpose, defend with honour - and maybe get stuck in a little bit!

Up the blues!

Keep him quiet and we will to a large degree keep WH quiet.

It's one of his strengths (he successfully kept Messi and Bale quiet before).

By that I mean I would like to see him do more pressing and harrying. He is a free spirit but he would be a world beater if he could add this to his game.

Sad to say I think it is too soon for Besic to be risked so I would put McCarthy in front of Baines and play Barkley a bit deeper in front of Coleman and behind Lennon. If he goes missing Lennon will cover for him.

This team should be able to take a weakened West Ham apart.

Robles,
Coleman, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Baines
Barkley, Barry, McCarthy
Lennon, Mirallas
Lukaku.

One thing that stood out for me in the Villa game was the way Mirallas looked up and picked Lennon out for the goal. You only have to do that once or twice in a game and your well on your way to picking up the 3 points. I would definitely start him for this one.

Up the Blues.

My team for today would be:

Robles
Coleman
Stones
Jags
Baines
Lennon
McCarthy
Barry
Mirallas
Barkley
Rom

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-35360384

History says he doesn't stay too long anywhere and has forced moves before. Personally, I'd rather avoid him, keep Ross on the park, and look for a younger player for rotation and development.

Pity Cleverly is sick as he is a really top notch player with a great eye for a pass. Stones is now cover for the central defence he has to work on his aerial work and add a few pounds of muscle to his upper body. I sure hope we have seen the last of Kone but I doubt it, maybe he will score a few goals.

For me Kevin Mirallas is our most dangerous forward ahead of Lukaku and Lennon lets hope he turns it on today.

I've never been one to judge the club/manager on how much gets spent in the transfer market but we rarely have more than one home grown player on view and I think the manager could be braver.

As it is, expensive signings have frequently underperformed or lost their bottle when it has really mattered. Perhaps today they will prove that phase has truly passed.

Please prove me wrong. COYB

Just curious as to how keeping Stones on the bench is criminal?

Who exactly is he better than in current form and not based upon some vague notion of anticipated greatness (not yet demonstrated)? Who would he replace? Baines or Oviedo ? No. Jags? No. Funes Mori? No. Coleman? No. McCarthy? No. Barry? No. Barkley? No. Can he play an advanced left winger role? Not sure his defending would be any better than Cleverly and it wouldn't offset the loss of offensive ability of Mirallas.

So I ask again, where would he play? It would be criminal to start him. Plus, given that Besic and Niasse need time as well as DelBoy, it would be only a little less criminal to waste a sub by a straight swap for Stones in for one of the defenders just to give him minutes.

Phil,
Galloway and Garbutt did get some playing time, Galloway picked up an injury which ruled him out for a period, you know what happened to Garbutt.
So who would you drop/would have dropped to accommodate the above.

Not convinced by that formation meself, but ... let's see how it pans out.

Joel
Coleman Stones Jagielka Funes More
Oviedo Mccarthy
Barkley Mirallas Lennon
Lukaku

Bit of an odd line up unless Barkley is playing deeper and Oviedo is going wide left??

We went to pieces when we tried it the other night...and aside from Italy in the 90's it's proved to be a great big pile of pretentious shit!

Don't change a winning team unless forced too and certainly don't go with a new formation that you haven't used at any part of the season.

I fear the worst and will be delighted to be proven wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see him shoe-horned into any midfield role.

I think we need to wait for the game and see how we are set out. I cant really see Oviedo in midfield, seriously. It must be 5-4-1
Anyway COYB

Hold you're horses, chuckles. Let's see how the players line up. I reckon it's Stones in deep centre mid. Fuck knows who's going to dictate play.

And now of course it's another pot of bollox. None of us are laughing now, hey! To play so well and control the game to just throw it away like only we can!! Again and again. As soon as they got one, you knew what was coming.

Bring on the cup.