Everton pair sit out bore draw in St Etienne

, 20 June, 127comments  |  Jump to most recent
Slovakia 0 - 0 England
John Stones and Ross Barkley are now the only outfield players not to have seen action for England at Euro2016 as they were left unused on the bench for what ended up being a tediously goalless encounter against Slovakia.

Roy Hodgson made six changes to the team that started against Wales when the line up against Slovakia but neither Everton player made the XI and they were overlooked despite England's toils, particularly in midfield where they lacked the imagination to break down an entrenched opposition defence.

Hodgson's men came into this their final game in Group B knowing that a win would see them through to the knockout stages as group winners but while they do qualify, it's only as runners up to Wales who thumped Russia 3-0 in the other match.

England must now wait to see whom they face from the winner of Group F while Wales will likely go up against one of the third-place finishers.  

Reader Comments (127)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Chris Williams
1 Posted 20/06/2016 at 06:53:29
Excellent news.
Tom Evans
2 Posted 20/06/2016 at 07:47:23
Better out of it. Leave it to Henderson to bugger things up in the middle.
I would expect one or both to make an appearance sometime late in the game.
Colin Glassar
3 Posted 20/06/2016 at 07:50:12
If they want to further their England careers, under Roy, they might have to move across the park and wear red.
Ian Jones
4 Posted 20/06/2016 at 08:03:30
Colin, or just become better than they currently are :)
Chris James
5 Posted 20/06/2016 at 08:18:11
To be fair Stones and Barkley's form wasn't exactly great coming into this, although the same could be said for Henderson, Sterling or Wilshere as well.
Kim Vivian
6 Posted 20/06/2016 at 08:27:23
I know Ross and JS had a mediocre season courtesy of RM but read recently that Leeds United have had six managers since Jack Wilshere last completed 90 minutes for Arsenal. Not quite sure what he has done to stake his claim.
Maynard Hanna
7 Posted 20/06/2016 at 08:59:15
I just wish that we could sign Marek Hamsik.
Martin Nicholls
8 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:09:13
I wonder if Ross and JS are being ostracized by other squad members as well as by management?
Tony Draper
9 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:10:01
Tony Draper
10 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:10:01
Pretty sure that Woy won't actually make six changes.

My interpretation of Wise Woy's words was that he could wotate, but that winning the gwoup would see us playing against a third placed team.

So ? I'm expecting Vardy & Stuwwidge to start. As for Wooney being dwopped for Jack Wheelchair or Mild-ner or Boredan Henderson ? Nah.

Perhaps, if we were three up after an hour, well maybe ?

Keith Monaghan
11 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:17:22
Good news IMO - keeps them away from more media pressure & criticism.
For me, Slovakia are better than Russia & Wales, so lets see Cahill & "Always Mawling" cope with them - he's sure to concede a pen sooner or later, given half-decent refereeing. Ross lucky to be in the squad, in spite of the glaring weaknesses in midfield.
To be fair, Rooney's done well in midfield, but against very slow and limited opposition - the journos should wait until he's tested before crowing like they have been. Llalana's done surprisingly well, don't see it lasting though - the rest are very limited and sicknotes. None of them any where near Croatian, German & Spanish midfields.
If only we could get Modric to EFC!!!
Given a lucky draw, we'll make last 8.
Tony Hill
12 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:18:51
Martin (8), I don't see that with Stones but I have noticed that Ross tends not to get passed to by certain players: Sterling and Wilshere, notably. I have a suspicion that Jack the Lad's a bit of a twat.
Andrew Clare
13 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:30:11
They will lose against Slovakia who are technically a far superior team. Barkley and Stones just aren't England type players who historically have had to be hard running grafters with one or two rare exceptions. They just haven't performed up to expectations over the last two years. Ross looked like the real deal two years ago but now I'm not so sure. Hopefully Koeman will get the best out of him.Stones will probably go.
Chris Williams
14 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:36:24

I think Woy sees Wilshere and Henderson as wanking higher than Barkley. Wilshere is pwobably one of the highest wankers in Woys mind ( or at least what passes for a Bwain)

Tony he is pwobably both a twat and a pwick.

Pablo Brown
15 Posted 20/06/2016 at 09:46:18
I used to hold no interest in international football if it didn't involve our players. I've enjoyed the Euros so far for the opposite reason.

Barkley and Stones, although cracking players, have a mistake in them. If one of them made a booboo, the criticism they'd receive would be horrendous. I for one hope they remain on the bench.

Karl Meighan
16 Posted 20/06/2016 at 10:01:52
Six changes everybody saw what France were like after all the changes so surely not, Wiltshire has gone backwards but the piss poor way England passed the ball against Wales first half he will probably play with Sturridge and Vardy also keeping there places thats the changes I expect.
Sterling is shite imo but wasnt alone against Wales the whole England team were especially in the first half, I think they will win this one by the odd goal.
Mike Oates
17 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:04:49
I think Ross is clearly suffering with a total lack of confidence and probably hasn't shown anything in training with the England team. He is a game changing player if on form and you'd think Roy would have possibly used him against Wales.

I don't think John Stones has a hope in hell appearing at the start of a game in this competition. I don't think Roy wants to take risks at the back, and unfortunately John does take risks. If they come off he's Barcelona bound, if not he's Barnsley bound.

Geoff Williams
18 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:06:27
Slovakia beat England, Wales beat Russia leaving England in third place, here's hoping.
Trevor Lynes
19 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:12:02
I honestly believe that Rooney is in decline and has not 'yet' been exposed.Neither Barkley nor Stones deserve to be in the squad IMO and that go's for Milner, Henderson and Sterling.Vardy and Sturridge are both deserving of a place ahead of both Kane and Sterling.Both are fresh and will run at defenders.I still believe that England definitely should have chosen Jagielka over Stones. I would not swap him for Cahill who gives too many stupid free kicks away in dangerous area's.Jags form has been better than Cahills throughout last season.Wilshire is another who should not be in the squad.He is slower than a snail and loses out in 50/50 situations.I would prefer Delph and Drinkwater to Wilshire as a box to box midfielder.
Karl Meighan
21 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:25:34
Who knows... they might use Stones for his penalty taking.
Charles Barrow
22 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:25:40
As has been said earlier England have not played a decent team yet. Russia were dreadful and Wales played poorly. Rooney in both games had the freedom of the park. England huffed and puffed but didn't really create that many chances.

The press are so stupid. I despair at the lack of proper analysis. I imagine when they come up against a good side they will struggle badly. That's when Ross will come on! 3 nil down with 15 minutes left - Hodgson will throw him on.

I don't mind if Ross or John Stones don't play so long as they don't come back with any injuries.

Ciaran Duff
23 Posted 20/06/2016 at 11:37:19
Just hope that Russia get knocked out.
Mike Allen
24 Posted 20/06/2016 at 12:07:32
The player who should not be in the squad is Rashford – what's that all about? I can't believe this lad is in before seasoned professionals.

If you're good enough, you're old enough... but if they think you're old, you're just old. What am I missing with this lad?

Peter Gorman
25 Posted 20/06/2016 at 12:12:24
Charles, 'tweren't just Wales who played poorly, England were awful too yet they won so everything is hunky-dory in media-land.

Same commentators slated France last night for being shite yet haven't pointed out just how piss-poor England are. Like Brazil in the last World Cup, they are waiting to be exposed in the most horrific way imaginable. I recoiled in horror at the very suggestion that the FA keep Roy no matter the results.

But as far as our club is concerned, sorry for the lads themselves if they don't play but we've all noted that at least we won't be associated with the mess when the knockout eventually occurs.

Tom Bowers
26 Posted 20/06/2016 at 12:13:54
You just knew that, if he made changes, it would be to get in his RS faves, which is okay because we all know, no matter what team he plays, they will not get past the last sixteen.

Too many better teams with better managers.

James Stewart
27 Posted 20/06/2016 at 13:00:42
First half decent side Red Roy's England come up against they will be out. A dinosaur with no plan other than to put more strikers on if losing. No width, only picks his cronies, same old boring shit.
Ste Traverse
28 Posted 20/06/2016 at 13:33:01
I see some of our paranoid element are giving it the usual 'Roy is biased towards RS players'.

I can't think of a single reason why he'd be 'biased' towards anything to do with that club.

As for Stones and Barkley, whatever we think, they'd not want to spend the whole tournament gathering splinters.

Tony Dove
29 Posted 20/06/2016 at 13:43:47
According to some of the papers today Ross has been very impressive in training and whilst he wont start I reckon he will come on as sub.
For all the doubters he is probably the only player in the squad capable of that piece of creative magic which England will need at some stage if they are going to be contenders.

The most unpleasant of the midfield bag of RS is certainly Lallana who seems to have a personal vendetta against Ross. There is no chance of him giving the ball to Ross if they are on the pitch together.

Charles Barrow
30 Posted 20/06/2016 at 14:06:07
I think he is biased towards the 'big teams'. Why else would he exclude Drinkwater and Townsend - both of them in form (Townsend towards the end, admittedly) and include others who were injured or out of form. He has selected Stones in the squad because every paper said he should and Ross is there because he was the man in possession (of a squad place) even though he has no intention of using him.

I really think he just assumes if you play for the RS, Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City you must be good! a very childlike approach to football!
Neil Wood
31 Posted 20/06/2016 at 14:43:26
I thought it was just me who saw people such as Wilshere and Lallana blatantly ignoring passes to Barkley.

In addition, I watch the games Barkley plays at international level and yes he makes the odd mistake. When he does, Hoddle and in particular that other prick who I have absolutely no respect for (Townsend) absolutely slate him and mention every minor mistake where as Alli makes the self same mistakes and he's still "golden boy" .

I'm sorry, but Alli's performances in the firsts two games have been shocking and that's their for all to see. However they don't

Dave Roberts
33 Posted 20/06/2016 at 16:06:56
Rather than take Rashford I'd have taken Defoe.....but then the media would have been very, very annoyed if Woy had taken a mere Sunderland player wouldn't they, rather than some Manure kid who had scored a few goals admittedly but has a first touch like a blacksmith with a straw hammer.

If England do reasonably well (ie: get out of the group) then that will be in spite of the manager not because of him. I remember at the World Cup him saying that Sterling was unplayable. No Woy, you should have said 'can't play'. As for Barks and Stones, the longer they sit on the bench the better as far as I'm concerned.

William Cartwright
34 Posted 20/06/2016 at 16:24:17
Ste (28) . . . . . . He did work for them once upon a time?
Peter Gorman
35 Posted 20/06/2016 at 17:44:29
William, when our Roy was at their club he didn't work with Henderson, Milner, Lallana, Sturridge or Clyne.

I am not sure your argument holds any water. I'll think you'll find the real reason he favours their players is he is a shit manager.

Ste Traverse
36 Posted 20/06/2016 at 17:46:26
William #34.

Hodgson suffered months of abuse off their fans and was fucked off sharpish after less than half a season.

Given these facts, why would he be in anyway biased towards them? Utter paranoia for me.

Paul Andrews
37 Posted 20/06/2016 at 19:13:22
Barring the reserve goalkeepers, Ross and John will be the only squad members who haven't had any action up to now, unless they get on as a sub.

A reflection of their form in the second half of the season?

Garry Corgan
38 Posted 20/06/2016 at 19:22:11
What a load of paranoid bollocks on this thread.

Roy is the England manager - he's picked a decent squad, albeit not one that everybody is going to agree with. He's rotating the team tonight. Neither Stones nor Barkley have had stellar seasons and haven't played their way in. Okay, neither has Sterling but he's one of our few naturally left-sided options and has his moments.

Can't we just get put club allegiances aside and get behind the national team, for better for worse? And if you're not English, it doesn't really matter to you does it?

Darren Hind
39 Posted 20/06/2016 at 20:01:53

Yellow card and Ban waiting to happen ?

Frank Crewe
40 Posted 20/06/2016 at 20:03:28
If Ross and John aren't getting picked because of their form in the latter stages of the league campaign how come Wilshere and Henderson are getting picked? They barely played any games at all last season to assess whether their form was good or bad.

Also if it wasn't for the fact Kane has been playing shit, he wouldn't let Vardy get a look in either.

Hodgson is just picking favourites. It's not about form or tactics. It's about who you play for. Apparently playing for the club that won the league can't get you picked but playing for the club that came second can.

What's Lallana doing that merits getting picked in every game so far?

Tom Bowers
43 Posted 20/06/2016 at 20:58:26
Have to admit I am baffled by Hodgson's decisions but then he was a Red for a while and he has been favouring their players since he left.

Lallana seems to be the blue eye at the moment but really is poor around the box. Henderson is a just Gerrard wannabee. A very average midfielder who wants to take all the corners and free kicks as well as thinking he is the captain. No better than Barkley at any time in my opinion.

Not good enough by England against poor opposition.

Tony Abrahams
44 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:01:55
Darren, I think England should be ahead and I think they would have more chance of doing so if Stones was playing tonight.

The fact that Barkley can't get a game in front of some of these England midfielders shows you how bad his form has been since the turn of the year.

If he's not sitting on the bench, watching this game and thinking, "I hope this arl bastard, gives me the last half an hour," then he might as well just go and get the next plane home now.

Christy Ring
45 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:04:21
It's a joke that Wilshere and Henderson are even in the squad ahead of Drinkwater, form means nothing to Roy.

Disappointed for Ross, it won't do his confidence any good to see Wilshere in ahead of him, but he'll come back fresh for us.

Mark Tanton
46 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:16:24
Wilshere is unprofessional. He drinks and smokes and shouldn't be anywhere near the squad. Total waste of space.
Dennis Ng
47 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:28:36
Very one sided game for Wales. Russia not giving much.

Mark, I remember a commentator mentioned Wilshere as someone Hodgson rates highly. Definitely a case of picking favorites here.

Christine Foster
48 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:29:03
I can't see either Stones or Barkley getting any playing time now in this tournament which is nonsensical given squad rotation. They may as well have gone on holiday.

I am disappointed for both as they have had poor seasons but it would have been better if they hadn't been selected for the squad. But when you see Henderson, Alli, Wilshere, Dier, all ahead in choice – it's criminal. I can't blame either being totally brassed off.

Tony Hill
49 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:30:29
Come home Ross.
Liam Reilly
50 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:49:04
Wales to top the group and Woy's favourites are going to end up with a tasty draw.

Justice for continuously picking out of form players; was it 4,Liverpool players on that field tonight; that's a fucking joke when Drinkwater is sitting at home.

Martin Mason
51 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:55:21
No sane manager rotates players in what becomes a KO competition and winning the group is critical. Woy is possibly as crazy and even more incompetent than RM especially in selecting tactical formations.

In competitions like this you use all games to refine your best team, you have to win the games.

Brent Stephens
52 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:57:05
Henderson was dire.
Mike Allison
53 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:58:14
Henderson... (shakes head)

...H-Henderson... (rocks back and forth)

Henderson... (lower lip quivers)...

Christine Foster
54 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:58:24
Disgraceful performance, totally inept and devoid of creativity. Full of their own hype with a manager who hasn't got a clue. I cannot see them progressing – just 15 individuals, not a team.

Torn between wanting to see Stones and Barkley and hoping that they are not tainted with this manager or team.

Paul Andrews
55 Posted 20/06/2016 at 21:58:37

Not so critical to win the group. England now play the 2nd in Group F.

Rob Hooton
56 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:02:22
The game was crying out for Barkley but he was never going to get a run out. Ho hum...
Mike Allison
57 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:04:16
England are quite good. Let's be honest, they've absolutely dominated all three group games despite having players off form. The back four and Dier have been excellent, Rooney's been brilliant in a deeper role and we have options up front.

It's just that when things don't go your way, you look at Henderson, Wilshere and Milner and think who else we could have taken. All three are a waste of time.

Henderson just isn't up to it. Wilshere seems to have blinded everyone in English football because he has nice technique, but he gives the ball away constantly. I started trying to count, he had the ball four times, lost it three of them then got subbed off. He's the most overrated player I've ever seen.

As for not winning the group, that actually shouldn't matter. We'll have the runner up from Portugal's group, and if we lose to them we never had a chance of doing anything anyway.

Barry Lambert
58 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:06:40
I've had a belly full of that prick Glen Hoddle. He failed to comment on the fact that England had 1 shot on goal. If John Stones had cocked up like Smalling did, he'd still be bleating about it now.

Stones and Barkley might as well come home. They've been hung out to dry by the press and just about every so-called expert.

Tony Abrahams
59 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:07:09
Billic, brilliant! If they just listened to him instead of not letting him speak, we would all learn something.

Mike Allison
60 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:09:26
Hodgson favours players who've played under Pocchettino because they're really good at pressing. That's why Baines isn't in the squad. There are lots of Tottenham, Southampton or ex-Southampton players.

Doesn't explain Milner, Wilshere and Henderson though.

Andrew Clare
61 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:09:41
They just looked like a bunch of muscular, coached athletes lacking any imagination or creativity. No flair, no class not one football brain between them.
Mike Allison
62 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:13:06
Last one, just to respond to a couple of comments earlier: Barkley did NOT have a bad season, he finished quite a good season badly (8 goals, 8 assists).

Sterling is not a left-sided option, he's a right-footed winger, so should play on the right. He seems to think he's Lionel Messi, he's actually Aaron Lennon.

Rob Hooton
63 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:19:36
Congratulations to Wales too, pretty chuffed for them.
As someone else pointed out Bilic is the man speaking sense on the telly, England lacked that something special and their keeper hardly had to make a save. Skrtel was excellent at the back for Slovakia (though it pains me to say it!)
Steavey Buckley
64 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:20:16
Alli and Vardy dynamic for their league clubs last season now looking as they have just been introduced into the game of playing football. Rooney most overrated could not pass or cross a ball, take a corner or shoot without wasting all efforts.

England very embarrassing tonight. Once a decent team shows up and show England how to play football, the English players can't start their summer holidays.

Terence Beresford
65 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:21:05
Barry (#58). Totally agree if that was Stones and not Smalling. The panel would still be debating he should've got rid or don't take liberties in that area of the pitch. Instead of that, nothing said.
Christine Foster
66 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:21:13
Mike, sorry but Barkley in the latter half of the season was off the pace and ended up getting subbed quite a few times. By his standards I am sure he was as disappointed in his season as we were.
Gary Reeves
67 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:36:49
I’ve always said that a lot of Kopites "aren’t football fans, they’re just Liverpudlians" so I’m a little disappointed to read some of the nonsense on this thread. If you’re not interested in footy or you’re one of this "Scourers, not English" why watch/comment?

As for the two Toffees in question, well I think Stones is slightly unlucky to miss out, so far... whilst I think Barkley is lucky to be a professional footballer!

Mike Allison
68 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:45:11
Once a decent team shows up England will be able to use their main game plan. England are coached and set up to play against better teams, but they've played against three weaker teams. They've had to cope with ten men behind the ball pretty much all the time in all three games, they've been utterly dominant but found it hard to break down what are, after all, highly paid professionals who themselves play to a high standard.

England want to press high initially, then later on sit back and hit on the counter against teams who are good in possession themselves. They've been too good for Russia, Wales and Slovakia to be able to attack them, so have never had any space to run into.

Christine, even accepting that in full, it's still only 'a bad second half of the season' not 'a bad season'. It's quite a significant difference - about five months of good football with goals and assists coming regularly.

Conor Skelly
69 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:48:00
I've tried to do out alternate team line-ups from the England squad and no-matter what way you break it down and rearrange it you get an unbalanced side lacking in creativity and width. Two things that can be quite useful when trying to score a goal.

Our best chance is come up against a team that try's to press high and nick the ball back from our midfielders. I think we'll give one of the top teams a game in the Quarters and get knocked out by the odd goal.

For what it's worth I'd absolutely play Ross and Stones in the KO stage against the better teams. Not just because I'm biased but because Ross is the only player that can go right through the midfield on the break without having to use the wing-backs. If he can break through the lines on the counter Vardy & Sterling become very dangerous. That alone could make England a far more dangerous proposition than what we are seeing now which is nothing other than a slow, predictable last 8 exit.

Steavey Buckley
70 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:49:57
Mike Allison once a decent team shows up will go pass Cahill and Smalling as though they don't exist - Smalling nearly gifted one tonight; and that's without the opposition trying.
David Edwards
71 Posted 20/06/2016 at 22:55:34
Chuffed as anything to see Wales put in a dominant performance against Russia and go through - they fully deserved it! Nice to see my namesake get on in the second half as well (it doesn't half sound good to hear your name along with Bale and Ramsey on the telly!!!)

I just about kept up with the England game on the iPad and saw a lot of toil and a few unlucky misses, although not enough cunning to get around Slovakia's parked bus. While I don't think Hodgson comes out with much credit - can't help think (as echoed by Bilic on ITV) that against 'better' teams, they will do better (as Everton often do - although less often than we'd like)

I can see both teams making it through to the quarter finals, but despite my preference, still think England have a surprise or two up their sleeves in this tournament - while the Welsh will no doubt fall down somewhere as 'plucky losers' (a term Evertonians have grown tired of over the last decade or so!)

Finally, I could see Stones getting a game at some point - especially if Cahill picks up a knock...but can't see Barkley getting on - based on his low confidence and weak end to the season - and Hodgson's clear favouritism of others!

Mike Allison
72 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:09:21
Nice move Steavey, it is indeed very difficult to argue against such a confident and specific prediction of the future.

I think when England play better teams the games will be completely different to the last three games, and so to draw conclusions from the one about the other seems to be nothing other than pure guesswork and speculation.

Trevor Lynes
73 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:14:09
Boring rubbish !
Peter Cummings
74 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:34:34
I was pretty disappointed at first when we couldn't get an England feed here in Ontario so was 'forced' to watch a fantastic game of brilliant football from our adopted home (Wales) thrashing Russia. Needless to say after reading the reports of another England fiasco, our eleven years in Prestatyn seemed well spent as 'Land Of My Fathers' echoed around the stadium to eclipse even the 'Z Cars theme in passion and sound, Bora Da Carriads you did us all proud.
Anthony Dwyer
75 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:35:27
Ross should jump on an easy jet to Ibiza and meet up with his mates.

He's wasting his time in France if he's behind Wilshire, Henderson, Lallan, Ali, Vardy, Sturridge and Sterling for any of the midfield rolls.

The England team seems to be getting credit even though we are in a bang average group, playing dog shit football and looking like a team that wont score goals.

Ross had a bad end to the season, yet he scored more goals than Wilshire, Lallana and Henderson put together, in fact his goals and assists records resembles that of Payet who is the key to France team.

Stones is simply not getting played unless one of the two centre half's gets injured, Walker has the right back slot boxed and Clyne is his replacement.

There both young, rich and have no family to worry about, they both played a lot of football last season and should concentrate on having a few weeks yo themselves.

Eric Holland
76 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:45:07
What about tonight's game Trevor?
Mike Allison
77 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:51:53
Peter it was nothing like a fiasco. I don't understand where these nonsense narratives form. England fans are massively frustrated because they've just watched a 90 minute attack vs defence where the attack couldn't score due to poor finishing, good defending, a couple of decent saves and a 6-4-0 formation. They went through anyway and will play one of Austria, Hungary, Iceland or Portugal, a match they will be favourites to win. There is no fiasco.
Mike Allison
78 Posted 20/06/2016 at 23:56:04
I forgot to mention that this was all done with a weakened side because they were so confident of progression and comfortable with whoever they would get in the second round.

They even played Jordan Henderson for a full 90 minutes and still dominated completely. As my mate said: "they should just play with ten, at least that would be ballsy and awesome".

Loko Sanchez
79 Posted 21/06/2016 at 01:21:30
Once in the knockout stages, it's gonna be hard to get any game time. Feel sorry for the lads. Cruel reality check though....
William Cartwright
80 Posted 21/06/2016 at 03:04:33
Ste and Peter (35) + (36) - I made the observation that Woy was an ex-Liverpool manager as a response to his playing Liverpool players en masse when several of them do not merit a place in the squad, compared to the rejection of Danny Drinkwater for example.

I am a biased Evertonian and aware of it. That awareness gives you the half chance of being objective. No matter how biased you are, it has been clear for years that the Redshite (no bias there . . . !) are preferred and by comparrison to Everton, aggressively marketed, by the two main pillars of our football society; the BBC and the FA. The 3rd pillar, the commercial Sky group are not quite so biased, however when the derby is being played the coverage is provided from the Redshites being the team to beat, and the Blues being there to make up the numbers.

Why is that. I don't know. But not acknowledging it is weird. I have on several posts raised the subject over the last few years, and an article sparked some debate. However, when you delve into the statistics it is much more prevalent than you realize. When you read in between the lines and pick up on the bias nuances of the social pillars and the media it is even worse.

I expect Moshiri will be aware of this as an issue to address, but don't ask me to rationalize it or ignore it, or even worse suggest it doesn't exist and raise the paranoia argument. I and others like me deserve better for simply being aware.

Anto Byrne
81 Posted 21/06/2016 at 03:10:15
Leicester play counterattacking football using the pace of their forwards. It's unfortunate for Vardy as England played a dull possession game. No plan B. What about going long and pushing up Cahill to add bodies in the box or sitting back deep for a while and allow them to attack and leave space at the back to be exploited with pace? It was very pedestrian almost Martinezingly boring.

As far as Barkley and Stones are concerned, let them warm the bench and recuperate for the season coming. Having said that both Smalling and Rooney were pretty ordinary. Why not play Rooney as a centre forward for the last 20 minutes and drag Vardy?

I thought the Slovak keeper was good, stayed on his line or back and let the defender do the work, dominated his area with safe hands and made some important saves.

Brian Wilkinson
82 Posted 21/06/2016 at 03:20:21
I have no doubt if Cahill was still playing for Bolton, and Stones was at say Chelsea or Man u, Stones would have started every game before Cahill.

Same old story, its not how well you are playing, but which team you play for.

Vardy had an excellent season, only when he came on against Wales, did England improve.

I may be biased, but how the Christ lallana and Henderson gets picked is baffling.

Brian Cleveland
83 Posted 21/06/2016 at 05:30:08
Lyndon, you say England will play the winners of Group F, isn't it the 2nd place team we play? At least according to the spreadsheet I'm keeping track with it is...
Peter Barry
84 Posted 21/06/2016 at 05:43:48
So far England have been pathetic just as anyone with a mind full of football reality and not Nationalism knew they would be. Their next game will be their last game in the competition.
Brian Wilkinson
85 Posted 21/06/2016 at 05:44:17
Correct Brian@83, England now play the runners up of group f, they also go in the same half of the draw of Germany, Italy and France.

Ihave a feeling England might be back home before their postcards.

Peter McHugh
86 Posted 21/06/2016 at 06:44:19
Should play strongest side and make substitutions if and when you're comfortable. Bad decision by the manager. Very unbalanced team with no width. Dier is cracking but having Wiltshire Henderson and an out of position Lallana to try and supply forwards is baffling.

Objectively, the first two should not be on the plane. Defoe should have went instead of Rashford and Baines instead of Bertrand. Drink water should be in as a stand in for Dier and replacement for Henderson. Stones should have been played throughout qualifying but as he wasn't best he doesn't play but Jags should have been there instead of him on this basis (or in my view, as well as and instead of Wiltshire),

Neil Pickering
87 Posted 21/06/2016 at 07:05:51
Woy us an idiot, and although he was my favourite redshite manager ever, I think its obvious he is out of his depth here. One thing I do agree on is his ommission of Barkley though; at international level In a major tournament you just couldn't trust him. His decision making is poor, and he gives the ball away too often 8n the final 3rd which against better sides is suicide.

This season is massive for Ross, he's no longer a kid with potential and he needs to start realising his potential or he will be left behind. I think Roberto set him back a bit with his non existent coaching and cheerleading but personally, I think he is massively overated, and what we see now is as good as we will get from him, which Imo just isn't enough. If we got a big offer in the summer I'm sorry to say I would sell.

Chris Gould
88 Posted 21/06/2016 at 07:13:48
England play with no width because they don't have any decent wingers. So they rely on somebody creative in the middle of the park. Unfortunately they don't have any creative players either. There was nobody on that pitch who is capable of a moment of magic.
The only player capable is Ross Barkley and he won't get a chance. Whether he deserves a chance, I don't know...but he simply can't do any worse than what we've seen.
I turned over and watched Game of Thrones. Creativity and entertainment at its best.
Colin Glassar
89 Posted 21/06/2016 at 07:57:24
If ever there was a game to use Ross and Stonesy last night it was that one. No one on the England team can carry the ball like those two but Roy can't use them. He's terrified of the press who pick his teams for him and there you go, they didn't have a fucking clue.

Just come home rested, and injury free lads and fuck England and that useless git.

John Hammond
90 Posted 21/06/2016 at 08:10:25
Bore draw?? I must've been watching a different game.

You'd think that would be the last of Wiltshire we see but doubt it, he's Roy's boy.

At least we'll have Stones and Barkley fresh for next season.

Mike Allison
91 Posted 21/06/2016 at 09:11:47
John I watched a different game to many of the posters on here. An awful lot of daft things being said giving away a lack of understanding. Most people seem to be judging England through the lens of what they assumed was going to happen anyway based on past disappointments.

Peter Barry (84) gives that away fairly straightforwardly. He even has the gall to suggest it's bias to think otherwise!

Never mind.

Mike Oates
92 Posted 21/06/2016 at 09:49:02
Barkley and Stones are either mistakes waiting to happen or are gems in the making. Hodgson clearly believes he can't trust them when it matters and now that the league format is gone, I can't see him playing them in the knockout stages, unless due to injuries to Cahill or Smalling or in Barkley's case a 10 minute life saving cameo.

Both players were badly coached last season, both haven't learnt the basics of their respective roles and were encouraged to be risk takers. I think Hodgson was under press and peer pressure to pick them in the first place and doesn't fancy either of them.

Wouldn't it be lovely if both get a game somehow and move England forwards, and hopefully get Hodgson the boot.

Phil Walling
93 Posted 21/06/2016 at 09:55:11
Had England ever been winning by the proverbial street, I am sure 'our lads' would have 'got some minutes'.

At least their lack of Euros action will remove any suggestion they will go into next season totally knackered. For Everton or any other clubs !

Martin Nicholls
94 Posted 21/06/2016 at 10:12:55
Based on last night's performance Jordan Henderson will struggle to put a cross into the box in Thursday's referendum ballot as well !
Martin Nicholls
95 Posted 21/06/2016 at 10:18:08
Wilshire gave a masterclass in giving the ball away - if Ross had played and done so as much he would have been hung out to dry by the Press (and by Hodgson!).
Mike Allen
96 Posted 21/06/2016 at 10:25:01
Apart from Barkley and Stones, quite a few others should not have been on the plane, never mind on the pitch. Endless square balls or passing backwards because they can only kick with one foot, wasted crosses because no-one attacks the ball in the air, absolutely fucking clueless if the opposition decides to defend. Pre-planned subs made, whatever the state of play.

This is international football – play what you think is your best players and best team and stick with it whoever you are playing.

Denis Richardson
97 Posted 21/06/2016 at 10:46:06
The addition of 8 extra teams in the tournament to bring it to 24 in total means that it's almost impossible for the 'bigger' sides not to make it out of the group stages. Only question was would it be 1st, 2nd or even 3rd.

Going back to August 2014, England have yet to play a decent side in a competitive match. The qualifying group was a training exercise and the EM group the same. They should get a fairly comfortable draw in the next round and will then likely go out in the quarters against one of Germany, Italy or France.

Not fussed whether Ross or Stones get game time tbh.

Mike Oates
98 Posted 21/06/2016 at 11:02:28
Interesting to read about Lukaku and Wilmotts (Belgium Manager) who said he never considered leaving Lukaku out after the Italian debacle. He went on to say that the worst thing that can happen to any player (as it happened to Wilmotts) is to get picked in a tournament squad and never even get onto the pitch during the whole tournament. He said it absolutely destroys the player concerned and it is very difficult to get your game going again. I do fear for Barkley and in particular Stones if both never get game time.
Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 21/06/2016 at 11:15:10
Mike 68, all about opinions I suppose mate, but to say they have been too good, to attack Russia, Wales and Slovakia, and only have 3 goals to show for over 270 minutes of football, against these opponents, shows a real lack of a cutting edge to me.

No space in behind, and not a winger on the pitch, is fucking criminal, especially with such limited midfielders, who can't keep hold of the ball long enough, to draw out the opposition.

I think the end for Hodgson at Anfield, was when he said it was Liverpool's best performance, when Everton, took their foot off the pedal, (something that still makes me fume to this day) and only won 2-0.

Why do people think we will do well, against better teams, when we can't put 2nd rate teams to bed?

I hope I'm wrong, but I think something is seriously amiss, because for such an attacking team? England just don't get enough bodies into the oppositions box.

David Donnellan
101 Posted 21/06/2016 at 11:25:56
I like watching tournament football as a neutral, seeing players you don't get to see often. I have no interest in the national side, I am totally indifferent whether they win, lose or draw. I only have passion for one team & that's our blue boys.
From what I have seen of England in this tournament, if Barkley can't get a game ahead of Lallana or Wilshere there is something wrong, I would have him over those two any day. Lallana is one of these players who thinks he is better than he actually is, all tricks & flicks & no actual substance, his end product is hopeless.
Wilshere is a waste of time, he is definitely one player that has been over hyped over the years by the English media. I just don't see it!
Don't get me started on how only one player from the Premier League champions is in the England squad, something's not right there.
Tony Abrahams
103 Posted 21/06/2016 at 11:55:44
Good post Mike 98. It must be really bad for a players confidence, if they just go along for the ride, but I think Stones, will be alright because he seems a naturally confident kid anyway.

Barkley, on the other hand really worries me, because he should be in the team before a few of these other clones, but it's his complete lack of belief in himself, that seems to be really holding him back.

Sam Hoare
104 Posted 21/06/2016 at 11:58:35
I didn't think we were that bad at all. We have dominated all three games admittedly against poor opposition but you can only play whats in front of you.

We have created some decent chances with Vardy missing a one on one last night, Sterling missing an absolute sitter against Wales and a bundle of missed opportunities against Russia.

Its not been great but its not been awful either. We are not the first and won't be the last team to struggle to break down defensive set ups. We certainly look a lot better than in the last 2 tournaments we were in.

I think we may do better against teams who come at us a bit more and would not be at all surprised to see us win the next round and make it to the quarters where we may well meet France and that will be a tough ask as they and Spain are the only two teams who have looked half decent so far...

Tom Bowers
105 Posted 21/06/2016 at 12:13:07
Everybody's has had a kick except the 2 Everton lads.
Why then did Hodgson pick them to go if hey were to be of no use.
Why has Rashford not had more playing time instead of wasteful finishers like Lallana and Sterling.
Cannot for the life of me see England beating the Better teams that will be left.
They had better hope the draw is favourable.
James Newcombe
106 Posted 21/06/2016 at 12:35:29
We could have done with some trickery from Rashford or Barkley at the end, last night. Rather than putting Kane on, who has offered absolutely nothing.
Mike Allison
107 Posted 21/06/2016 at 12:38:32
"Why do people think we will do well, against better teams, when we can't put 2nd rate teams to bed?"

Tony, have you not watched Everton for many, many years? It's a very common feature of football, and all sport in fact, that you raise your game against better opposition, whilst inferior opponents somehow drag you down to their level. This has happened in so many Everton games that surely you know this?

With England specifically, their preparation and game plan is aimed at playing better teams, it will suit their attributes and qualities to have an opponent who looks to get forward and attack. It's very difficult for any team to break down an inferior opponent who 'parks the bus'. Spain struggled massively against the Czech Republic, Germany failed completely against Poland, and France have made dramatic breakthroughs right at the end of the games.

England may indeed get knocked out in the Quarter Finals, but if they do it'll be because of what happens in the Quarter Finals, not because they missed chances and struggled to break down inferior opposition in the group stage.

Carl Davies
109 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:01:47
I believe Stones deserves to be third-choice centre-back; despite having more potential than the other two, he is not quite there yet.

As for Barkley, he is lucky to be anywhere near that team in my opinion. His form in the second half of the season was shocking despite having the luxury of a complete free role with no responsibilities. He consistently shows poor decision-making, poor workrate, no aggression or desire, no tackles and often looked like he was playing for himself rather than the team.

He does show potential but he is nowhere near good enough to be given a free role and can't be trusted to play anywhere else and that is why he will stay on the bench.

Tony Abrahams
110 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:03:00
Mike, I agree with you about raising your game against better teams, but I honestly don't think England's game can be raised much more than the first half last night, or most of the Russia game.

I just think we lack both a cutting edge, and enough good players on the ball, to really dictate a game of football, when the opposition retreat, like last night.

Once the competition gets going, I think we should play like Vardy's, Leicester, see Auto's post 81, because I just think better teams will pick holes, in England's present style, and formation.

Charlie Burnett
111 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:08:47
The back 4 is actually working with England so I can understand why you would not change the back four.

I can only understand why Ross isn't playing is because he's so unfit. Like somone mentioned everyone except the keepers has got minutes.
Ste Traverse
112 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:27:06
William Cartwright (#80),

Yet another post from on here from you just dripping in paranoia. Pure undiluted paranoia.

Like I said to you on here before, and you keep dodging to answer... Hodgson spent near enough his whole spell there getting abuse off their fans and was binned off in double-quick time.

Bearing this in mind, why would he be biased towards them in anyway? I wouldn't mind an answer this time, please.

Charles Barrow
113 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:39:37
Surely you play your best players in their best position and mould the team around that. This means you have to upset some players and the press. The problem is Hodgson doesn't know who are his best players or what their positions should be or he actively misuses them.

He dithers depending on what the press 'experts' say in their columns the previous day! He may chance upon a good team by accident and we may get to the final. In the same way if Sturridge hadn't scored against Wales we'd be most likely on the plane home! Fine margins?

Timothy Blanshard
114 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:40:25
I only worry that being omitted might affect both players' confidence, especially Ross's.
Gordon Scott
115 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:41:51
Mike @ 92, I absolutely hate this phrase... Both players were badly coached last season, both haven't learnt the basics of their respective roles.

Haven't learnt!!! What the hell have they been doing since the age of 10... if you can't understand how to defend, or pass the ball in the subsequent 10 years, how the hell do you become a professional football player!!!

All these people have done for the best part of their short lives is play football... if they don't get it now, why are they anywhere near our first team, let alone on the pitch!!!

John Graham
116 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:44:09
I was not impressed by anyone. Clyne (spit ) did well first half but then we didn't use him.

Why no Baines.... Why no Baines? Bertrand is one lucky guy – can't defend, can't attack, can't cross the ball, Rose is slightly better... Why no Baines?
Why no Barkley? he can be a lazy sod but knows how to play a killer pass to open up defences. If he can't get into the team before Wilshere, Henderson, Milner, or Stirling, then something is wrong.

Why no Stones? He's much better than the other two clowns – especially Smalling.

Once again, a manager who prefers boring football with steady Eddies.

Stan Schofield
117 Posted 21/06/2016 at 13:50:55
The display was mediocre, and it is difficult to understand how certain players, like Wilshere and Lallana, are chosen. There's a reasonable chance that Barkley and Stones would have added some much needed flair, but at the same time whether it would have influenced the outcome significantly is anyone's guess.

I'm not really that bothered that they haven't been picked, and of course it avoids unnecessary injury to them.

Jay Harris
119 Posted 21/06/2016 at 15:42:03
If Ross had played like the media darling Delle Alli he would have been lambasted by the press.

At the moment I am pleased our lads haven't been exposed amongst this collection of individuals.

England are not a team under Hodgson and the comparison with Martinez is a valid one. Neither of them has any balls to demand more from the players.

William Cartwright
120 Posted 21/06/2016 at 16:14:23
Ste, let me turn the questions around.

Can you answer why the media are biased against Ross but not so against Deli Alli and Wilshere? At least judging from many of the comments on here? Perhaps your answer may be they are not, and possibly the comments are unreasonable?

Also I don't dispute your point that Roy has no reason to be so pro the Redshites judging from his experience as their manager. Then please advise why he is so?

I am open to suggestion, but please don't drop the level of the discussion to 'paranoia'. The subject deserves more debate than that. The more you look at it, the more interesting it gets...

Ste Traverse
122 Posted 21/06/2016 at 19:46:05
The media aren't 'biased' against Barkley in anyway William. That's just your paranoia kicking in yet again.

I've yet to see any anti-Barkley sentiment. And if he ends up getting criticism...so what? That's all part and parcel of football.

Given his poor performances for us in the last 3 months of last season he was damn lucky to get in the squad. No way should he be ahead of Ali in the pecking order, who played much better than him last season.

Wilshere is another question entirely. Why he's in the squad is a mystery.

If anything, Hodgson is 'biased' to Spurs as he picks more of their players than from any other club. So why aren't you going on about that seemingly 'bias'?

Gavin McGarvey
123 Posted 21/06/2016 at 22:39:03
I was hoping Barkley would be brought on last night. A lot of the England midfield were a little plodding really, and as we were so completely on top, it begs the question, if not then, then when?

Anyway, maybe it's for the best. If he played well, we would have all the hype. If he played badly, we would have the fall out from that to deal with. I feel for him, despite my misgivings about the manager and team in general.

Gavin McGarvey
124 Posted 21/06/2016 at 22:39:03
I was hoping Barkley would be brought on last night. A lot of the England midfield were a little plodding really, and as we were so completely on top, it begs the question, if not then, then when?

Anyway, maybe it's for the best. If he played well, we would have all the hype. If he played badly, we would have the fall out from that to deal with. I feel for him, despite my misgivings about the manager and team in general.

Tony Hill
125 Posted 21/06/2016 at 22:48:14
I am now only concerned to get Ross back home and working with a proper manager. Hodgson is an established fuckwit and his choice of a quarter-fit Wilshere was entirely in character. It is incredible that the man doesn't seem to know what his best side is or what system to play.

Alli has been poor for a while now but the media will not say so since that contradicts their ridiculous pre-tournament script whereby he was going to be our teenage salvation.

Rob Halligan
126 Posted 22/06/2016 at 10:57:37
The daily express are leading today's football headlines with the following............

FA chiefs outraged as Hodgson risks losing England job after Euro 2016 gamble backfires

ROY HODGSON'S selection own goal in England's final group game at Euro 2016 has incensed senior figures at the Football Association..................

To me, reading between the lines, it basically implies that the players Hodgson brought in on Monday night, were not good enough to win the game.

Reading the article, there is not one mention of any player coming in being criticised for their performance.

You can bet your bottom dollar, however, that if Stones and or Barkley had played, they would have been pulled to bits by the press for Englands failure to win the group.

Bitter????...............too bloody true I am. If I were either Stones or Ross, I'd throw a sickie and asked to be sent home. No way are either player going to get a game.

Anthony Flack
127 Posted 22/06/2016 at 11:09:09
Does anyone remember the home game last season against West Brom. A clueless Everton spending 90% of the match trying to break through two rows of 5 well organised and physical players. We displayed no imagination or variety in the approach and go nowhere.

England were just the same, no plan B and no imagination. It needed something different to break through... Ross or even bloody Sterling might have offered that...

Phil Walling
128 Posted 22/06/2016 at 11:16:46
On the contrary, Anthony, our two players would have felt at home playing those pass, pass, pass tactics.

I kept thinking Roy had morfed into Roberto, particularly when he justified the tactic on the grounds of possession and superiority !

Julian Wait
129 Posted 22/06/2016 at 15:05:02
Pretty much 100% agree with Peter McHugh #86.

Against a team sitting deep and defending with 9 players in two banks, full backs like Bertrand are not useful; Baines could have added some intricate passing guile (a la Spain and Argentina) instead of pure athleticism. He should have been on the plane (oat) or bespite having a rough season with us; Baines wasn't necessarily the problem for us anyway.

Jags AND Stones. Yes. No Wilshire, he's a useless luxury. I must admit that Lallana has played well but like Milner it's not always clear what he adds. And he missed a few chances.

Shocking that we didn't try Barkley, up front even, or instead of Alli, against Slovakia; again, pace/break forwards like Vardy aren't the best for breaking teams down; I think the Sturridge goal against Wales was a good example (although it came from an Alli mistake).

I do think the squad we have will do better in attack against better teams, but we'll also likely get scored on a lot more, so I am expecting some 3-2 type results in the knockouts ...

William Cartwright
130 Posted 22/06/2016 at 15:37:10
Ste, you are still not sensing where I'm coming from. The Hodgson focus is not all that relevant. Consider this;

There are many, many posters on ToffeeWeb who record their frustration at the raw deal Everton get in all branches of the media. Let's not dispute that.

The raw deal is very insidious. Example being the continual reference to Everton's star players being considered as already transferable commodities in waiting. This never happens to any other club? Why?

The Redshite media luv-in is so blatant, responded to literally hundreds of times a month by knowledgeable ToffeeWebbers without referring to the paranoid angle, so let's simply accept it as fact. OK? But why is it so?

The appointment of Koeman really is big news. That plus Moshiri's stated intentions for the Club is bigger still.
So why should we find the BBC highlighting the negative polemics such as Koeman is gambling and are Everton "really" a bigger club than Southampton? Compare this to the celebrations and hoo-haa that accompanied Klopp's appointment which has even now still not died down.

Therefore my observation still stands. Why are the media, especially the BBC, who pride themselves on their politically neutral reporting, so biased against Everton? There are many opinions. If you acknowledge this I would like to hear your opinion. Simply labeling me 'paranoid' is doing neither of us justice.

Denis Richardson
131 Posted 22/06/2016 at 17:41:13
Ste, do you not agree that Hodgson favours players from the 'bigger' clubs?

It's the only reason I can think of that explains why the likes of Noble, Drinkwater, Townsend and Defoe are not in France. Four players who were bang in form during the last few months of the season. Certainly better than Henderson and Wilthsire, who hardly even played.

Bit strange how Rashford got in on 'form' and yet the above players didn't. Defoe is exactly the kind of joker off the bench that could do a job in the second half when chasing a goal.

Ste Traverse
132 Posted 22/06/2016 at 18:53:05

So some at the BBC question the move of Koeman to us. So what? I didn't agree with them but football is all about opinions, isn't it? Just like your giving yours.

I don't really see Klopp love that is supposed to be still going on. Perhaps it just resides in your head? With the Euros in full swing, I don't remember the last time he was even mentioned in the media.

Again, I'm not aware of these 'hundreds' of Blues who come on here every month cry-arsing about so-called media bias towards LFC and I've been posting on TW everyday for 7 years.

None of us like it, but they are a much higher profile club than us hence more media coverage. It's not rocket science.

Ironically enough, some of my RS mates and family have the reverse views of yours by moaning about how the media is against them!

Sorry William, but I don't think I've ever come across a Blue with a chip on their shoulder that size. I don't think it's healthy to be that paranoid and look for conspiracy in everything.

Ste Traverse
133 Posted 22/06/2016 at 20:02:59
Hodgson maybe does favour players from sides higher up the table Denis, but nearly every England manager has done that.

Remember Mexico 86 and the England squad being dominated by Everton players? Steven, Stevens, Lineker and Reid. And everyone of them ended up starting all but the first two games.

I wonder if fans from sides lower down the table complained about that back then?

Denis Richardson
134 Posted 22/06/2016 at 00:02:40
Liverpool finished 8th......and have 5 players in the squad.

Certainly not based on form anyway, (otherwise Barkley and Stones wouldn't be there either).

Anyway, seems they've gotten lucky, dodged a bullet with Iceland scoring the winner after 94 mins.

Patrick Murphy
135 Posted 23/06/2016 at 00:27:01
Ste (133) Everton may have provided the largest number of players for the England squad in 1986 but Reid and Steven were not first choices for Bobby Robson.

Had Wilkins not have been sent off and suspended and Robson not have done his shoulder, those two players probably wouldn't have started for England.

As it turned out all four of the Everton contingent started the ball rolling in Mexico 86 and all four started the last 3 matches of that campaign.

There is and always has been a strange attitude towards Everton FC and its players from the FA's point of view during my time of watching football, you don't see it which is fair enough.

I always ask the question had the situation which caused the European ban have involved Everton FC how many English clubs would the English FA have banned?

William Cartwright
136 Posted 23/06/2016 at 03:18:37
Ste; Thank you. Let's close the discussion.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.

About these ads

© ToffeeWeb