Argentina on the wrong end of Copa America penalty drama

Maradonas place as the greatest is firmly cemented.

Peter #4, you are absolutely right. It's pathetic the great and sainted Messi hasn't been able to win a major tournament still. And this isn't a scenario like Ronaldo carrying an otherwise mediocre outfit; Argentina is arguably the world's most talented team. They're so good Sergio Aguero comes off the bench for them! And Carlos Tevez, even in the height of his exploits, couldn't get into the squad.

Anyone who saw Messi's penalty kick last night knows; that was absolutely one of the worst kicks in the history of penalty shootouts. It was as if they grabbed a fan from the stands to come down and try and hit a spot kick in front of 80,000 people.

Moreover last night in particular, skewed clearances, rash tackles and one cruncher which given the nature of the referee was fortune indeed to escape a red card

I'm of the opinion even the powers of a world class defender in Koeman will not be able to coax a more stable performance from Mori. We paid way more for Koldrup! I'd personally ship him out, hes more of a Bilic or Materazzi for me in temperament, will miss several games through suspension. Taxi for Mori

Vamos! Funes Mori

Anthony, they're number 1 as measured by however FIFA do their rankings. Don't let it bother you, if it does.

Paul, a player must make himself available for his country is he still plays? Black and white issue, nothing else to consider? Usually the posters on ToffeeWeb don't have a good word to say about international football, some don't even like football, just Everton which is the most bemusing of all.

Maradona is the greatest because Messi retired early? Could you explain that please?

Clarence, are you saying that Messi shouldn't be hailed as a great player as he hasn't won an international tournament? Is there any point actually watching football to form an opinion or should I just consult the record books?

George, if we had no shootouts and just endless replays could you imagine the whinging (and rightly so) of the various clubs' stakeholders (fans included) when their players weren't fit to start the season?

Sorry but I've been away at the Euros and from TW for a few weeks and either you've all gone mad from not watching the Blues or this come-down is hitting me harder than I thought.

Is Messi a great player, undoubtably he is, does he rank higher than Ronaldo or Zlatan, sure.

But does he sit at the same table as Maradona, Charlton, Pele, etc. Perhaps without a world or even continetal title, thats a tough stretch I'd proffer?

And yes always on the ale, and have learnt through fastidous study I can hold both my ale and a argument simultaneously, hic!

As for Funes Mori, after the sending off, he was moved out wide left from centre-back.. defensively he made a late game-saving tackle. To be critical, left wing-back is not his best position because he is limited going forward, As to temperament, compared to Vidal, Medel and many others, he was calmness personified. Mascherano and Vidal were immense for their respective teams.

On the contrary to the comments passed previously, to see world class players so obviously highly distraught at losing a game for their country is actually refreshing at a time when the game is so commercialized. 82,000 plus in New Jersey to watch the game. I thought the tournament was great overall and it shows how deep the talent pool is coming out of South and even Central America.

They give up far too easily IMO.

Take heart, guys... "Don't cry for me, Argentina".

Messi is the greatest player I've ever seen. Him not winning an international trophy is a regret no doubt, but to repeat myself, teams win trophies, not players.

Paul, I agree it's an honour and I hate to see lads packing it in but to state it in such a black and white manner is wrong. There's the prolonging of your club career, the inability to get on with a manager, or in Neil Lennon's case, for example, bullets in the post to consider.

It implies that the winning of the tournament is purely down to Messi and it's not.

It's down to his team-mates, the quality of opposition and any number of factors that might arise at the time of the tournament.

I was very disappointed with his performance at the last World Cup despite what the stats will tell you. The word was that the tax case was weighing on him and he had a below average season.

I really don't buy into it.

Bit draconian of you, don't you think?

His body, his career, his choice.

Some very strange opinions being expressed on this thread, as Shane highlights.

Regarding Funes Mori, I watched most of this tournament, and he looked pretty good from what I saw. Perhaps could turn out to be the most astute Roberto signing?

He's the sole and entire reason his team got anywhere near glory...

Messi is, without a doubt, a ridiculously talented, fantastic footballer. The best I've ever seen and no one else - no one - comes even close in my opinion. I'm with Shane - it's a team game.

And quite unfortunately for Lionel, he plays for the Buffalo Bills... look it up...

Oh, and I thought Funes Mori was actually excellent over the course of the tournament. Not sure where the negativity is coming from because I thought he was very good.

By way of a measure, Otamendi, who for many the jury is still out, was given the same light work load in his Copa games and did make mistakes but by no means as numerous as Mori.

As he is young and actually has a very good brand,
social media et al. I'd be surprised if Koeman kept him more than a season if that. Too rash, too error prone for the English game

Prove me wrong lad!

Messi just makes that team better. Period.

It's not that Argentina are crap without him. Not at all.

But he's the reason they go to World Cup finals and Copa finals and aren't dumped earlier in my opinion.

He's that influential and that good.

When I say he plays for the"Buffalo Bills" I should explain... I mean to say Argentina are like the Bills - so, so many times runners up in major tournaments, a la the five time Super Bowl attendees in Buffalo. That's the only link I'm attempting to make - both teams have come so close but can't / couldn't get over the proverbial hump.

It's not a comparison to state Messi plays alongside pub players - that's absurd obviously.

Or with Mason Holgate and Matty Foulds for the future, encash Stones now and use the money for 2 good signings, 20m apiece.

COYB!

I love Jags, but I'd be buzzing if Funes Mori and Stones could keep him out of our starting 11 next season and provide our new manager with a solid defence that we could build a bright blue future on.

Some people have given Funes Mori unfair criticism IMO, he looked assured most of the time in a team that had no confidence at all.

I think under Ronald he will really flourish into a world star.

In NBA terms, Funes Mori is "Clutch". What does this mean? Means that in the heavy games he always shines. Yes, he has this meltdown in the last derby. But also remember the first Funes Mori derby where he made a last-minute save against Sturridge.