Koeman still demanding improvement from Barkley

The footballing brain, as Koeman has now discovered to his frustration, is simply not there. (“Okay, we tried to explain and to show him.")

Maybe if somebody had made him a striker years ago – no need for a strategic view of the pitch, just get the ball and score – he might have become the star his talents implied.

But now it is simply never going to happen.

You just keep picking on him Ronald and ensure all the brilliance is strangled and we end up with a young lad who goes elsewhere and becomes average. It's getting embarrassing now.

If we'd had an awesome first half of a season under Koeman but Barkley was under-performing I could understand. But we have been mostly rubbish. There are so many players not doing it (interestingly some of his signings) but he always goes for Barkley.

If we don't collect 6 points from the next 3 matches, I really hope the pressure mounts on Koeman. The deflections and excuses are becoming tiresome.

His performance in the derby was woeful and I would be the first to find an excuse if I could because I think he has exceptional gifts. I wish, though, that Ronald had avoided yet more comment of this type which, as he identifies himself, can only be damaging.

Action, Ross, please. Now.

Why didn't Koeman just say that he only discusses Ross's game with those that he needs to? Baffling.

People that go on about him being our most skillful player blah blah... I love the lad but he's NOT gonna be the player we hope he can be.

Face facts, it'll hurt less (slightly).

Could you imagine going to work and your gaffer saying your not doing a good enough job, then you pull your finger out try a bit harder, na, still not good enough, so you keep trying... na, your off the job then he let's you back in then it's na still not good enough!!

His confidence must be shot to pieces!

You can't tell me to keep telling a 23-year-old man you're not good enough in front of the whole world is the best way to get him to improve!!

It's obvious he need's to improve but confidence is a major factor in anyone performing any task especially in sport! Barkley need's to be told behind closed door's where he need's to improve and supported and defended by his gaffer in public!

From where I'm sitting it look's like Barkley could be out the door and it's a real shame if that is the case!

Just for the record, I'd rather see Koeman's head on a stick.

I agree, as it appears Koeman does too, that Ross will never perform consistently well enough to be considered a top player. However, if Koeman is going to look to sell Ross shortly, the less said about Ross's game in the press that is negative, the better.

I've posted on another thread that I foresee a resurgence and happy times with Ronald after the impassioned Arsenal game and all that it stood for. I'll shut up and see what happens on the pitch.

These sort of things Moyes alluded to back in the day when Barkley was still a kid and picked up on it and wanted to improve that side of his game to make him a more complete player; clearly Barkley found it hard to grasp and didn't get picked yet Moyes got blasted for leaving him out – some said he held him back and hindered is progression.

Martinez came in and basically gave him a free reign; he seemed to do well, although he still made mistakes and things in that good season (our Leicester season) but things soon turned sour for Barkley as, for two-and-a-bit seasons now, he's still making the silly mistakes that he does.

Now I've seen people blaming managers for the way he's been coached and it's as good as their faults that he's like he is but every manager that as coached him can't be blamed for his slump! You can't blame managers for his decision-making, his pass selections, ball-hogging etc.

I've seen people say he ball hogs and turns into trouble due to a lack of movement in and around him and yeah, I can see that, but before he's even given the ball he should be aware of what's around him and have a picture of the game in his mind and know what pass he'll make next before he gets it. Yet, when he gets it and holds on to it, 1 touch, 2 touch, 3 touches later and he still hasn't passed it, then you know he's not seen the picture ahead of him and doesn't even know what pass to make! He just hasn't got a footballing brain.

You see all the top midfielders and they barely waste a pass. A lot of the time they pass the ball one touch or take 2 at most, and a lot of the time it's all simple passes, square, backwards, 3 yards, 5 yards, back and forth until they've past it to a point where the game as opened up and a killer ball is on, a pass to open up the opposition in the final third. The top players have that patience and know how and see the game unfold in their heads and use the ball correctly. They don't hold onto the ball longer than they need to and keep it ticking over, they don't hold on to it and slow the game down, they keep it boiling over till the right pass presents itself and they make it.

Barkley whenever he gets on the ball he holds onto it and looks for openings there and then. Before he even gets the ball, he should of had a look and got an idea of where he can go with his next pass before he even receives the ball but he doesn't and that's why he takes touch after touch whilst looking at his options and in turn slowing the game down and then it leads to either being tackled or a mistake! His thought process and speed of it is terrible.

I don't even know what position will suit him best anymore? He's not clever enough to play the No 10 role. And to play deeper you need that defensive discipline and tactical/positional awareness and he hasn't got any of that! So where do you put him?

I can honestly see Koeman ditching him, I really can. He doesn't sound convinced by him one bit, and the situation with his contract, where his doesn't seem a priority but others are, suggests to me, if he got any decent offers in next 2 windows, then he will definitely consider them!

I've considered Mr Koeman's judgement, on the basis for example of his acquisition of Stekelenburg and his assessment that Aaron Lennon is a better bet in a starting position than Gerard Deulofeu.

I've concluded that there is, at this stage, no evidence that Mr Koeman is good enough to manage a player as talented as Ross Barkley, and that there is, again at this stage, no evidence that he will be a successful Everton manager.

I'll definitely come back on here the moment Koeman IS a successful Everton manager to acknowledge the fact. Not going to happen... is it?

Secondly, he is way short.

Thirdly, the press insist on questioning our current manager on Barkley's progress. They need to produce stories to preserve their employment and Barkley, who they praised to the echo based on what we all saw 5 years ago, is newsworthy.

Fourthly, and lastly thank God, only Barkley can do something to end the constant questioning. But, up to now, he never has done. And so it goes on...

Neither player can pick a pass, aren't particularly creative, don't score anywhere near enough goals and seem to possess the infuriating habit of going missing when the going gets tough.

Throw in Bolasie and Williams and that would bring the total to near 𧴜m for four bang average players who won't get within touching distance of double figures between them.

What exactly is the transfer policy? Put together the most expensive pub team ever assembled? How about adding some potency, or a playmaker, instead of plumping for mere huff and puff and paying heavily over the odds for it?

For a manager to publicly and persistently keep putting the onus on one particular player to 'create', rather than looking closer to home for the reason why a side being sent out to 'hoof and hope' can barely hold onto the ball for close to a minute, never mind conjure more than a measly couple of shots on goal in a single game, seems pretty fucking shameful to me.

It's not like Koeman is some super manager who has some second-to-none managerial record, so why does he take this approach.

Did Sir Alex Ferguson talk this way about Ronaldo when he was 23 and not playing to his top potential?

Did Mourinho do this with Lampard when Ballack, Cole, Veron and Deco were trying to take his place ?

Has Pep come to Man City and moaned about Sterling or Sane not scoring many goals ?

Has Klopp come to the shite and jumped all over Origi or Can for not being able to hold down regular starting positions?

Has Wenger come out and moaned about Wallcot or Ox never really being able to take a starting spot at Arsenal?

I think you will find the answer to the all the above questions is a resounding NO.

So why does Ronny feel its ok to come out weekly and tell the press how he doubts Ross Barkley.

Go to NewsNow, every other news paper is saying how Koeman is doubting weather Ross will ever reach his potential.

He's managing Ross all wrong... Geri too; he's going to end up leaving us with a gang of 33-year-old robots with no future.

Lukaku is not an easy player to play with. He's very unusual for a striker in that he will not attack the six-yard box and give attacking midfielders the options they like. The only option he gives Ross is a one-two at the edge of the box which is crowded out 9 times out of 10.

It's very easy to slate Barkley – but I think there's a more deep-rooted reason for his perceived under-performance. The team as a whole really struggles to create chances. You can't throw that burden on one player.

You got it spot on.

I posted a while back that Ross was a guy with sublime individual footballing talent who just didn't understand the game as a team. I stand by it though it doesn't make me happy.

I also predicted back then, last summer, that he's played more times for England to date than he'll amass in the future. Also doesn't make me happy.

If we are to progress under the new regime, Barkley is not the answer. That's just the how it is. Ditch the "he's one of our own" sentiments and get someone in who can do what we want on a more regular basis.

Look at Alli at Spurs, he has Son, Eriksen and Lamela all creating and scoring goals, it allows him to go a few games being quiet.

We haven't got anyone like either of them players – all of our attacking options are much less consistent than the Spurs quartet... maybe Koeman should be looking at them instead of Ross for once.

Under 12 months ago, Ross was telling the papers he thinks his best position is centre-forward. Are those the words of a player who's been managed properly? 23 years old and he's never played a minute in what he believes is his best position.

I'm not saying Ross is a centre-forward... but what a fucking muddle the lad's head is in if he honestly thinks he's been played out of position his entire senior career.

Play him up front or make him believe he's a centre midfielder. Either way, somebody get a fucking grip here. This isn't Royston Drenthe we're dealing with. Barkley is a level-headed lad with his head firmly screwed on. Can somebody throw him a bone.

I don't care what anyone says about the sentiment shout, Ross is one of our own and we should be proud of it.

We've not had a top local player in the team for many years; now we have were forever listening to our own fans and our manager ripping him a new arse.

They are not easy words to type but if we revisit this in 5 years time you'll say to me you got it right. Trust my judgement on this and let's search for the player who can take us to the next level.

Ross is so extraordinarily talented; with this new dimension, plus some serious midfield help on the way in January ,maybe we will finally begin to see the player that we were all hoping for. Koeman is not goading Ross because he wants to sell him; I think it's because he really wants to keep him.

Moyes managed expectation. Martinez was insanely optimistic (I still kind of love him for that). This fella is just a loose cannon.

Personally, I agree with him.

Barkley has divided supporters so much in the past 2 seasons resulting in many arguments between posters on TW. The "give him time" and the pathetic "Ross is the whipping boy" comments just don't have any credence today.

Allowing for the local boy sentiment, "he is not the worst player in the team" and "he is one of us". Do you just keep playing and paying him until Everton eventually buy a team of stars that can make Barkley look good? His total inconsistency makes him a luxury player at best.

They don't come along very often and to have just one is a blessing to any club. And once you've had one it probably makes it that little bit more difficult for any player to match that sort of standard. Can you remember what Goodison was like every time he got the ball?

Since Rooney, we've had Rodwell, Stones and Ross who have been hailed as the next big thing. With Rodwell and Stones, I could see it... but with Ross I never really have.

It's probably an unfair comparison but with Rooney I think you could play him in almost any position and it might look laughable but his skill, confidence, desire, enthusiasm, character and understanding of the game would pull him through. He made football look like an extremely simple game, which for me was the hallmark of his quality.

I'm sad to say it but I've never seen any of that with Ross. In his defence, I think he's been caught in the long shadow that Rooney's diminutive figure has cast on our attitude to youth coming through – but great players step out of the shadows and bring their own light to the game.

I wish Ross would turn it on, and I am certain he's desperate to, but if we've not seen it yet, convincingly; I'm sad to say I'm not sure we ever will.

Here you go mate:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/can-ross-barkley-really-play-8956835.amp?client=safari

Ross spoke reasonably well. Jagielka's only comment at the end of the interview was: "He has a lot to learn."

We need you to step it up and be a part of EFC winning!!

He just hasn't got it. This could be down to Martinez, the pressure from Koeman... but I put his reluctance to put his foot in (the Henderson mistimed challenge aside) on his double leg break.

I can't blame him for that but, if you can't win the ball back, you're no use to anyone. I've been saying for a couple of seasons, we need to cash in before he's worthless

Correct or incorrect?

"He needs to be more clinical and have more creativity."

Correct or incorrect?

"Sometimes he is struggling with defending his man because he is ball watching."

Correct or incorrect?

"Even if you play deeper in midfield it is important to do your defensive work."

Correct or incorrect?

Fair comments from Koeman.

You would rather 'keep Barkley than Koeman' is like saying Barkley is bigger than the club.

What happens if the next manager can't unlock his great talents? That's 3 manager's who have failed up to now. Where does it end?

The reality is, the owner will back the manager – not Barkley.

With the recent exception of Coleman, Barry almost, and a cameo from McCarthy, none of the remaining players has regained near their previous level under Koeman. Lukaku, despite his goals, is not the player we've seen before. He's received the opposite treatment to Barkley.

No-one else has been subjected to any of this specific personal and public bashing by Koeman. For Barkley, it's becoming a weekly soap opera. I can't recall any manager of any team doing this before to this degree, save for in cases of off-the-field lifestyle issues, and even then...

Our early improvement stopped dead after the Norwich game, like a switch being thrown. (Last time I saw that was when the Chelsea team decided they preferred the Physio to Mourinho.) No improvement since, save for the last two games, ironically against better opposition – and this improvement has been mostly of the blood & thunder battling variety, interwoven with boot-it-up-the-field "tactics".

Our whole attacking section is the least functioning. Deulofeu and Mirallas are as out of favour or moreso than Barkley. These and Lukaku are talented players that we've all seen perform to a much higher level. Age is not a factor relating to irrecoverable form in their cases. Koeman has not improved ONE of them. It's accepted that the previous manager was responsible for this; who's responsible now? ALL the players are lazy money-grabbers?

Even the form of Koeman's own signings, Williams and Bolasie, has worsened. Koeman is struggling. I don't remember any of this crap being spoken in public during his term at Southampton.

Maybe he'll get his "Time" (yet another public utterance at this rather early stage). Maybe he'll eventually turn the club around in some fashion, with financial assistance, and in his own way, with luck.

If that happens, it will probably be without most or all of the current attacking players – players that in Martinez's first year were often a match for any team in the league. Koeman has not shown one hint of an iota of the ability to turn the ship around, in terms of individuals or the team. Meanwhile, it's been suggested that public shaming could be Koeman's "way" of motivating Barkley...

He was so bad against the old enemy the other night, it was embarrassing and humiliating. Of course, he wasn't alone in his shitness – they all stunk the gaff out – but it's beginning to dawn on me that Ross might have to leave Everton to relieve some of the pressure on himself and free himself up to play semi relaxed without the weight of expectation that is crippling him.

Maybe we no longer have a diamond.

He's having a nightmare at Spurs, left on the bench at Newcastle, and told lies and treated us like shite in the last transfer window. You couldn't even compare him to Barkley.

If it's true, Koeman has lost the plot.

Football is a team game – not one player, so Koeman, keep off his back! He is surrounded by shite; now bang average Bolasie is out the picture, he will improve but, as others have written, he needs help. All the top teams have more than one creative player on the pitch. We play with defensive midfielders and he is the one to inspire.

He suffers from those around him who don't move; he has vision and I believe the brain but, if no-one moves for him, what can he do? Take the whole opposition on! Maybe he is a striker, Gareth Bale was a right back!

Let's get behind him or Blue Bill will be rubbing his hands. If he is sold down the river he will become one if the best and I will never go in that ground again.

Imagine if Koeman spent 㿀m on a young England international who played like Barkley does. He'd get pelters.

The one of us argument is sentimental nonsense that clouds the issue. He's either good enough or he isn't. I suspect that's now three managers leaning towards the latter.

I keep waiting for Barkley to prove me wrong. He's like a tripless racehorse. Not quite this, not quite that, not quite the other.

Please let this be paper nonsense!

Schneiderlin, Depay, Van Dijk and a couple of good Walsh spots (goalkeeper and attacking midfielder) coming in; Gibson, Cleverley, Kone and Niasse out – would represent a very good window IMO.

Barkley strikes me as quite shy, certainly not prone to chit-chat, and perhaps there's too much spotlight on him. If he's not playing well, and Koeman wants to drop him, fine, but at the same time there could be a tad more minimalism in dealing with the media. It's not supposed to be a soap opera.

Leave it to people like Darren Hind, who called out Martinez before most, and was also definitely onto Koeman, and his ridiculous 'honesty'.

I have to agree with John Daley, and question the type of money Koeman, is getting to spend on players who are "nothing out of the ordinary ?"

We might not be privy to what is going on at Finch Farm but, if you want to harness any kind of team spirit (which should be any managers first aim), then this type of thing just shouldn't be turning up in the press.

Barkley was seen as one of the brightest young talents in recent times.

Lauded by many pundits.

Played for England.

He has an excellent shot.

He has two good feet.

Has scored many quality goals.

Has carried excellent stats (see the oft-cited Gerrard/Lampard comparisons).

Has shown top level dribbling skills.

Is very strong with his back to goal/ holding the ball.

Has made many technically incisive passes.

Has shown excellent reading of the game.

Is a stable character privately, by all accounts.

All true comments.

Any praise or support from Koeman? It's ALL negative. He'll be saying Barkley's crap in goal next.

Barkley's struggling now, in poor form. Almost all the previous Martinez charges are. They have been for the same duration as Barkley. That's why the team was crap for nearly two seasons. Name me one that's left Barkley (or anyone else) trailing in their wake of improvement under Koeman.

None of them are improving. It's because the manager can't do it. All we've ever heard is "Pressing". He is deflecting attention from his own failings with his wayward chunnerings. He is a PR clown. The player he once was will not prevent him from being found out.

Watching from the stands, we don't seem to deviate from 1 up top with 1 behind and 4 midfielders. With very little movement from anyone to get beyond the striker. Which means that if the striker doesn't score we don't score.

Ross is the easy target as he is expected to thread the final ball through to Lukaku who is usually marked by at least 2 defenders. Put Fabregas in the same position and he will have the same problems: we don't have enough movement off the ball in the final third.

Great players can read the game but, unfortunately, it appears Barkley cannot, thus he's never going to become a pivotal player for Everton.

He hasn't warranted a regular starting place for around 12 months.

Tony, the only thing wrong with "calling out" managers is that, if we had adopted that agenda with Kendall,i.e., "calling him out" after a dreadful run of performances, we'd have missed out on the glorious 1980s.

Kendall's team were absolute crap at one time – remember the 13,000 fans at the Coventry game calling for his head? And that was in his third season... just sayin'!

However, what we're seeing here is not that, but rather an incessant reiteration of comments that have already been made, against a background of continuing mediocrity from the team as a whole and a lack of evidence of adequate performance by the manager himself.

Koeman carries a higher responsibility than Barkley does. That's a basic principle of management. I would suggest to Koeman that if he is insistent on continuing these chitchats with the media, his focus should perhaps shift from individual players, to the overall performance of the team, the tactics, organisation, and his responsibility and accountability for these.

Football greatness is a gift from the gods – not something you can teach a boy; you either have it or you don't. If not, then you have to work really hard trying to improve your skills and fitness.

If Ross had the gifts of real skill, and a football brain, then he would be sticking out like a shining beacon, head and shoulders above all the rest every week; great players always perform – even in a crap team.

It pains me to say that Ross is just one of the thousands of young kids who never quite got there, and all this shite about being one of ours has probably worked against him and has given him a bigger burden to carry.

I really hope for all our sakes – especially Everton's – that the lad comes good. I would be delighted if that's the case; he is a terrific player on his day... but a great one? Sorry, but No – and you can't blame any manager for this.

It's also being reported that we are going to be after three players just. If so, that's ridiculous.

I also totally agree with what Barry Horne had to say about the January transfer window. Steve Walsh needs to get his finger out.

Barry Horne: Everton targets Schneiderlin and Depay are good – but rather 'obvious' signings

Koeman needs to stop criticising Ross in public and start earning his £6 mil by coaching the most naturally talented player we have.

Barkley is the clearest case of any footballer I've known who needs an arm round his shoulder, protecting from criticism and pressure. Instead, he's probably become the most picked on player I've ever seen.

I look at ex players who understand his role: Scholes, Redknapp, Merson, Carragher. Every single one of them euphoric in their belief that he is a truly talented player who needs support.

Managers who didn't like him? Moyes, Warnock and Hodgson... whilst the likes of Harry Redknapp and Hoddle scratch their heads as to why he gets such a raw deal.

Cast your mind back to half time at the FA Cup Semi-Final and a visible shaken Ross Barkley questioning whether the fans were booing him? Absolutely heartbreaking that he believes that his own fans could do that. Now he has a manager who is putting more negatives on him... genius!

If he was related to me, I'd be telling him to move on. Enough is enough. This kid has been pelted more than any young player I've ever known and the sad thing is – he clearly loves the club.

He nearly took Henderson's ankle out the other night. Never seen that before and it wasn't Ross... we don't need to see that player. We don't need to see a frustrated angry talent do that. We need to see him want the ball, get it and pretend he's in the local park take on players and play the game he knows – not fears.

Funny most Liverpool fans I know would have the lad in a heartbeat. They even say he would flourish in their team. You know of what? He would. Players moving, being able to return the ball to him in one touch. Yeah... but us, we look at Barkley as the problem, not the player in front who makes the game so difficult for him.

Ross Barkley, by his birthday on December 5, had played 126 times and scored 18 goals. That's 10 less games than Gerrard and 2 more goals.

So come on, support the lad and get off his back – it's a special thing when you get a local lad coming good; don't lose sight of what's in front of you and boo him out of the club.

Ross should only have one job to do and that is support the main striker. He shouldn't have to track back and make tackles, well unless it's absolutely necessary. He should be played as a second striker or forward who sits just behind the front man.

It's as clear as daylight that Everton are not playing to his strengths. And all this public criticism by the manager is only going to destroy his confidence even further. It's a sad state of affairs.

He just needs a good run in his bet position and all the critics need to get off his back.

Everyone is calling for Davies, but if he got a run of 6 games, people would start to get on his back and the pressure would affect him. We need to get behind players to get them through the tough times.

A swap for that other Spurs maggot... is someone having a laugh???

No matter what you think of Barkley – that would just be outright stupidness and blatant idiocy – and the man would not be fit to lead our club.

This is the most important position on the pitch and we have a talent when it comes to skill but no vision. This is all on Ross: if he can't learn, he can't play. England dropped him for the same reasons and he sits on their bench – he does not have a football mind unless he is running with the ball and is going to shoot or play one-on-one.

He is not a midfield general so get rid of him; it won't click until he is 27. If it does not click, let's not wait – go spend some cash!!!

Fuck's sake... he is a 23-year-old 6'-2" lad from the inner city.

Once or twice I can understand it. Publicly challenge a player, see how he responds. But it's reached the point where it serves no purpose, as it is repetitive and is becoming a little self-defeating. I don't see how it can benefit the player at this point, and wonder how Barkley and other players view this persistent digging out in press conferences.

He was woeful in the derby, but I don't see how another public dig helps at this stage. His confidence can't exactly be high. You know when you've played well, and you know when you haven't.

And I don't particularly rate him either!!

What I expect from both Lukaku and Barkley is that they put the defence under pressure when they have the ball. I expect them to both make themselves available to receive a pass. I don't expect either of them back with the DMs that simple.

I expect them to both be able to interchange, one -ouch football, hold it up where possible, and pass accurately.

After 11 years of Moyes, we all saw what was possible under Martinez with a bit of flare added to what we had. The problem he had was he got carried away with his success after we stuffed Arsenal. Since throwing 4th place away, we've gone backwards due to him trying to turn us into Barcelona with crap players.

Koeman has come into a really bad situation. All put yourselves in his position. Great sleeping giant, with new billionaire owner, got a great squad of players just being miss managed. OK You come in and identify that the squad is a bit old fringe players are crap, and all the other problems we all moan about every day, plus all the other problems we are not privy to.

On top of that you have an enormous fan base who quite frankly expect all these problems to be sorted in six months because we've had enough. We are so angry, no manager we get is gonna every get a chance unless he gets at least a 75% win rate.

Ross Barkley, I love him to bits and hope he reaches his full potential at Everton. I would play him as a striker along side a real centre forward (Costa, Rondon type) I'd also do the same with Lukaku. Every manager has a style; OPM is like Morinho solid compact aggressive and they rely heavily on their forward players to steal the game with creativity, we have almost none of these ingredients so a lot of players needed in next the two windows. I've stated before any player can leave my love is the club.

I will be able to properly judge Koeman this time next year if we let him stay and work. Come on, fans, let's be real we have been poor for ages. We all now know deep down our players are not good enough – we've seen it for 4½ seasons now under three managers..

Peace and Goodwill to all COYBs

I recall the photo of Ross when he was playing in Under-14 football and a lad about a third of his size was vainly trying to tackle him but Ross looked the size he is now and looked like he could swat the lad away with ease.

He was 16 or 17 when he suffered the triple break in his leg and when he came back was playing against seasoned first team players and I would bet that a number of them would have been aware of his history and threaten to break his leg again should he go near them.

A year out of the game at that age would hinder his mental development and certainly explain his reluctance to get involved in a serious tackle when the other player is facing him (Henderson couldn't see him on Monday). As a kid, he could rely on his power to brush away opponents like that tiny lad in the photo so perhaps he wasn't using his brain back in those days because he didn't need to?

It really is a crying shame because the raw ability is there but so is the uncertainty in his mind when he has the ball. Alan Ball would have screamed himself hoarse if he had played with Ross because Alan could see a pass quicker than any player I have seen anywhere; if Ross had his ability in that area, he would truly be world class.

I haven't a clue what to do with him- I think I would keep him and get the rest of the team sorted- give him a proper structure with decent defensive midfielders and wingers and then see if he blossoms as we are a shambles at present; Ross isn't the sort to take a grip and lead us out of the mediocrity on his own. Certainly any notion that we should swap him for a player who only recently turned us down and has been largely crap at Newcastle and Spurs should be dismissed... please!!

As for Ron, this transfer window is crucial. Depay is a huge risk and could very easily crash and burn but has the ability to be a great source of supply to Rom and a great outlet for Ross. Ron has hidden behind poorly performing players bequeathed to him by Roberto – he has the chance now to make this team his own; if he buys poorly, then his neck will be on the block.

I see nothing yet in either his CV or his performance as our manager to suggest that he is anything like a top class manager – I do hope that he is going to prove me wrong!

I understand that you (like many) want him to be our Stevie G Laaaa, our next Rooney, Barton, Carragher... brought up playing footy on cobbled streets, cock of the year, skin like a rhino...

Maybe that's why fans pick on him; maybe they want to see him turn round mid match and kick off... front up to a fan and knock seven bells out of him... make him prove that he's a proper scouser. Maybe they will leave him alone then and stop bullying him.

After all he's 6ft-2in and built like a super-middleweight boxer; how can he be sensitive to criticism? Maybe he's a nice kid who had a good upbringing off his single mum who devoted so much time to him and his footballing education. Maybe he's a respectful lad who is universally liked – doesn't forget where he came from as seen with his moving tribute to Sid Benson.

The whole nonsense that he should be able to stomach criticism because he's scouse and 6ft-2in is pretty typical of laddite behaviour. Being sensitive is for players like Graeme le Saux and little Leighton Baines.

No, it's not actually a persons emotions has nothing to do with their physique

Proof? Watch Mike Tyson footage of how he used to get before a fight. Insecurities, fear, tears instead his coach harnessed that and made him approach with confidence, arm round shoulder... not "Get a grip, you big wuss!"

The Lad is one of us, a True Blue; he doesn't go away on international duty spouting his mouth off, like some others.

So come on, Ross lad, make us proud!!!

It could be that he needs a clean break, to start again at another Premier League club. Ross has always played fair with us so, as a club, we should be prepared to listen to offers. We need a number 10 or 8 who can contribute more; he needs other options to develop.

I take it your not familiar with inner city Liverpool?

Or inner city anywhere?

It's called being professional. If he hasn't yet worked that out after three Everton managers, five years and 22 caps, I regretfully come to the conclusion that he never will.

Not going off the subject, but in the late fifties Everton had a winger, Brian Harris, who was an in-and-out sort of player who never impressed many people that he was going to make the grade, he was switched to wing half, even played full back. He never looked back, just enjoyed the game more, realised how easy the game was. He would have played a lot more for the blues but we signed Tony Kay and he lost his place.

I think it will one day click for Ross, I hope the day comes. I wouldn't say for certain it will happen; if it does, we will have a very good player. He really needs helping, rather than being constantly criticised all the time.

I'm with John G Davies on this one. Tackles like that on Henderson would be the norm, rather than the exception.

Ross needs to toughen himself up, although I do think his triple leg break plays permanently on his mind. I think it doesn't matter which club he played for, tackling would never be part of his game.

Run from a refined hostelry at the top of the street where he was brought up. Ash Celtic and the pub in a rough area both run by good people.

Everton are not playing well, and indeed the system being played to is unclear, and there are many sub-par performances within an apparently sub-par set-up.

As such, I would prefer to see the manager focus on underlying problems of organisation and tactics, and effective use of player skills, rather than singling out individual performers. The latter strikes me as a diversion from more fundamental problems for which management have responsibility.

Whether Ross Barkley is a hard case from a rough part of Liverpool, or not, is irrelevant, a diversion.

This state of affairs will continue until the whole management structure of the club is stripped down and rebuilt and we move to our new home. Hopefully on the waterfront!

Under this manager, I've not seen any particular improvement on the pitch, nobody strikingly creative linked in the transfer market, and he puts his foot in it at every press conference!

Given the choice as to who should be moved on, my money would be on the failing manager rather than one of our best players – after all, with whom does the responsibility lie?

Brian Harris was an unsung hero in the mid-sixties. An excellent left half who took his chance after Tony Kay was hung out to dry. I recall Harris being a great partner for Ramon Wilson down that left side.

So often Barkley and Gueye are looking to pass and they check and go sideways, because there is no one making the runs, either through the middle or on the flanks, until Coleman and Baines arrive from the back.

Colin Harvey and Bobby Collins would have looked pedestrian with our front players. Hence this season we have resorted to the Howard Wilkinson and Charles Hughes tactics of lumping it long.

Koeman, don't blame Barkley (incidentally still sixth most successful midfielder on pass completion); blame your tactics and the leaden lack of movement of the players up front.

He can shoulder a lot of responsibility for his current form, but who has played well over the last 2 years? Has anyone shown that you can actually look good under the last two thirds of Martinez's reign and the first few months under Koeman?

I'll give Ross one thing: he's never agitated for a move when we know full well he could get one. He may not thunder around the park like we all think we would if we got a chance to wear the shirt, but the fact he's still here must say a lot about how he feels about this club.

Regarding Ross's assists, this is a contentious point. Ross had one of his best games against Arsenal, when Valencia played ahead of him – a player who is willing to move for a pass.

A Defoe-type player would suit Ross Barkley. Ross needs movement ahead of him. Until such time, we won't see the best of Ross Barkley.

One of our major problems, apart from the bleeding obvious, is the lack of service from the wings. I lost count of the number of times Liverpool got the ball into our area from wing play causing panic situations with most clearances going to the opposition and now we hear one of our best wingers, Deulofeu, wanting out for lack of playing time.

All-in-all, not a lot to look out for next year. In spite of all the gloom and doom, I wish all our long suffering Evertonians, at home and here in north America , a very Happy Crimbo and lost of luck in 2017!!! COYB

In 1963, me and my cousin, both 7, were taken to Goodison by our dads. At full-time, cousin got lost. Two dads and I looked all over the fast emptying ground, then the streets around Goodison Road, back to the car, then back to the deserted ground until about two hours later ending up at a police station where full particulars were taken.

Dreading arriving home to explain to distraught mums, we got in and saw my cousin watching telly, asking where we'd been. Turns out he'd wandered about in the ground as it emptied and, when he'd been more or less the only one left "went down this tunnel and into this room where loads of men were". That room turned out to be the Everton dressing room and having said where he lived Brian Harris agreed to give him a lift home!

Dads still got mega bollockings though!

However, Brian made his debut for Everton in 1955 or 1956 as a winger before he was converted to wing-half by either Ian Buchan or Johnny Carey later in the fifties.

He left Everton for Cardiff City under a cloud, claiming Everton should have given him a free transfer after years of service, which I agree with, but Everton demanded and got 㾶,000 for him.

The point of my story was to point out that Brian was not really going anywhere until he was converted to wing-half and it all suddenly clicked into place for him.

I believe Ross is the most naturally talented lad we have had since Rooney.

I think the public criticism of him is totally unhelpful.

I also think the lack of movement within the team doesn't help.

However, Ross and Lukaku are both what I call 'luxury' players. They will always look good when the game is going our way but, when the chips are down, they fail to impose themselves.

Now if Ross, as most of us believe, needs an arm round the shoulder consistently, can we really afford to play him in the cut and thrust of the Premier League where self motivation and a winning mentality are the key to success.

I would love Ross to prosper with us but we have to trust a manager with Koeman's pedigree to judge how to handle him.

Oh, and why are we so crap since day one under his management??

And why are we getting worse week after week???

Open your eyes and don't let sentiment blind you as I'm sure Ross will still be a multi-millionaire, whoever he plays for... but hopefully not us.

However, what has Ross ever done about his situation? I cannot say he is a Lampard or a Gerrard or Rooney because HE hasn't made the drive for improvement. Regardless of manager, if HE wanted to be the business we would have seen it by now. Very unlikely he will blossom at this age and go on.

Sadly his avenues are limited, again HE needs to decide a move is necessary to improve himself, ever see Ross putting in a transfer request? Nah. That's the point. He lets things happen to him – not the other way around... Time to move on, lad.

Now for Koeman, this to me is an exercise in trying to sell the lad by heaping pressure on him and telling anyone who will listen how good he could be.

Why just Ross? and not other underperforming players, well simply he is the most marketable and other teams will think they can get more put of him.

Do I like this approach, not really, Koeman continues to show me nothing that gives me any hope he can manage our once great club.

I played West Cheshire Premier League football, Birkenhead Saturday league, Birkenhead Sunday League, Ellesmere Port Premier League... had my eyes gouged in a game of football.

Yeah, I do understand.

He is not Messi, but is a top class player that most top clubs will go for if he was for sale. Koeman should be trying to take the pressure off him, not giving the press hints about his future.

Koeman was a world class player, but not sure he knows how to work with players who are not up to his status.

Come on, Ross, make him eat his words.

I've just read through this thread and it's obvious now that the doubters are in the ascendance, and rightly so. I've kept calling out Barkley's limitations because I'm an Evertonian, and I want the best for our team – it's been obvious that he does not improve us... simple as!

I've commented previously on his tactical indiscipline,lack of defensive abilities etc etc (we've all kicked it around) but I've noticed that some of his defender's on here are now reduced to saying that it's a personality thing - and the problem is he's "a nice lad", "he's shy", "quiet".

So whilst we're debating from a psychological view,could I add my own perspective? . . Isn't it obvious that he's a bit "dozy"?.. I mean c'mon, it's the elephant in the room!

Do we/you want to move this team on, or not?

Koeman – do your job and get the best out of our players. That's what you're paid to do. Just look at Williams. He was as solid as a rock at Swansea but plays like a big fairy for us but he doesn't get publicly bollicked every week by Koeman.

That was just before Tyson's first fight only. Read his book, The Undisputed Truth.

The penny dropped immediately. He thoroughly demolished all subsequent opponents until the booze got him (without need for the arm around him).

He has lived with low self-esteem all his life – he deems himself worthless. Psychologically he is screwed.

My point remains being a strapping lad does not alleviate the burden of criticism.

Well, let me say this. I've watched football since I was 7, and seen George Best, Pele, Zidane, Alex Young, Alan Ball, Cruyff, Duncan MacKenzie, Colin Harvey, Messi, et al. Regarding the ability to trap a ball, one of the most important skills in football, none of these great players exceeds Ross Barkley.

Not only trapping, but turning at the same time, and wrong footing opponents. A very rare skill. If Koeman cannot concentrate on Barkley's positive attributes like this ability, and get him to utilise them for the benefit of Everton, instead of repeatedly pointing to things he can't do well, then I know who of the two of them I would want to leave Everton, and it isn't Barkley.

I am not criticising big Ron for having a go at Ross but, fair's fair, he could also point the bone at a dozen others.

He's a fucking Dutch fraud – I say it now and say it loud – he's a shit manager.

If (and a big 'if') Ross is to be rehabilitated, he should be dropped to the U23s – a team with high morale and winning mentality, and be allowed to remember what it is like to run a game again.

I think his race is run. He hasn't got the mental strength to overcome both his own and the teams issues.

I've already moved on.

Well, Koeman is a manager, supposedly making maximum use of the talents of players, talents we know about because we've seen them in action, and have no reason not to believe those talents can't be manifested again, through organisation, marshalling of skills, tactical expertise, leadership, motivation, and all those other little attributes that are associated with effective management, particular management that has a salary of ٤M/year.

Either Koeman is not thinking 9 times, or he's diverting attention from taking the responsibility and accountability appropriate to his position.

Both Geri and Ross were playing really well into January and February of this year, 2016. Geri was showing a devastating passing range and, hugging the flank, was drawing 2-3 opposition players to him who he would still skin and which consequently created space and scoring chances for others.

Similarly, as Stan alludes to, Ross was time and again showing sublime skill in tight situations, receiving and instantly controlling the ball, using his upper body strength and turning away at speed from his close markers which put the opposition on the back foot.

After the 3-3 draw at Chelsea in the league and the League Cup semi defeat at Shitteh, Geri barely featured again under Martinez and Ross's form – along with pretty much the whole team – also nose-dived, apart from our FA cup run to the semi.

Everyone who has worked closely with Ross and we, the fans, have seen all the natural talent that resides in him (and Geri, for that matter).

To borrow a line from Paul Simon, "The problem's all inside your head..." Ross. On the pitch, he is not a shouter and pointer. In interview, he clearly isn't brash, a little timid even, and yet he potentially has so much going for him.

I should think, or hope, the club works with sports psychologists. If so, I should think, or hope, they (and the management) consult with and talk to Ross about this apparent crisis of confidence and lack of belief in his own abilities in an attempt to instill some swagger into the lad.

As for Koeman's public comments on Ross and dropping him, I think the first couple of airings were legitimate and justified; Ross needed to be made aware of the level of expectancy he carries.

Koeman's latest public utterances, all the more so after he prefaced them with "I don't like to speak about Ross because every word I say about Ross is used in a negative or positive way" ... and then does just that, in a very explicit way, I am less doubtful about the efficacy or necessity to do so.

I think Ross is confused as to what is expected of him at Everton and his performance in the derby reflected this to a degree. Many a poster on here, not just the manager, wanted more effort, more pressing, more tackling from Ross. Against t'other lot, you saw a non-typical game from Ross as he tried to do just that... only, he's not very good at that aspect of the game and it climaxed with the really bad foul on wotsisface.

Ross Barkley is yet one more to add to the list of the many enigmas associated with Everton, its playing staff and management at the moment.

I continue to repeat: neither the players we possess, nor the manager occupying the hot seat are as 'crap' as many wish to make out. There is very recent history which supports my view.

But clearly, something is systemically awry at the club. Unless and until this is identified and corrected, Everton, the manager, the players, the team, will continue to frustrate as they currently do.

Even if Ross Barkley was one of those Scousers that Peter was alluding to, it surely wouldn't have made it any easier for the kid when he picked up today's papers?

Don't have to like your manager, Ray, but you should be able to trust him though. I heard man-management was one of Howard Kendall's great strengths and you only had to look at his great Everton team to understand it.

Anyway Merry Christmas to Evertonians everywhere... it might not always be easy, but We Shall Not Be Moved!

Why would Koeman want to embarrass himself by being linked with a cocky serial flop. I would give Niasse a chance, at least he's a trier.

You can't be serious, Koeman is entitled to answer direct questions about Barkley, who strangely has had more column inches devoted to him than Lady Diana. No fault of Ross, he's an unassuming lad and must be baffled with all the attention.

Koeman apparently rolled his eyes in disbelief, presumably sick to the back teeth of such questions, then dived in, with an honest appraisal – where's the problem? He can't worry about Barkley's feelings and nor should he. They're all multimillionaires and are there to be shot at.

FYI, my head is firmly in the clouds.

I said after the Liverpool game that playing Barry was a contradiction, but if this is true about Lukaku, and his lack of movement, then I really hope someone comes in for him quick.

The sooner Koeman gets his OWN players in, the better. Koeman has played for Barcelona and Holland – do you really think he can't see the rubbish squad he has inherited from Martinez? Give the man a break; keep him – change the playing staff!!

Tony, I mentioned the calling out business to illustrate that if we, as a club, had given Kendall as little time as some are suggesting we give Koeman, then we would have missed his great 1980s sides.

I also thought Peter's post was somewhat ironic, again, suggesting that because Ross is a big strapping lad that he won't have any sort of sensitive side which would allow criticism to affect him.

Anyway, enough of this, a Very Happy Christmas to you and Blue Boys everywhere.

Lukaku wants to play a counter-attacking game where he runs on to a ball, think Man City, but he isn't either a back to goal player or a holder-up of play. He really needs to have a partner alongside of him.

My real beef is that Koeman is supposed to get the best out of the resources at his disposal, not constantly moan that they don't do what he wants. His Southampton team were younger and more athletic, our players aren't.

Maybe in three transfer windows he'll persuade the players he wants to come to Goodison, maybe not. However, in the meantime he has to work with what he's got and he seems unwilling to do that. Barkley playing as a headless chicken as he did against Liverpool, is no answer.

Stan Schofield, like me obviously an older fan, makes the point about Barkley's intrinsic skill and control and like him I go back, me to 53-54, and I echo his sentiments about Barkley.

Yes, Ross and several players are going through poor form but Koeman doesn't help their confidence much by publicly criticizing them as it's his personality – rather than deflecting the question, like other managers do.

It's fine speaking your mind when the team are winning and doing well but it requires other managerial skills when players are struggling.

Agree with everything you say, Rick, can't believe no-one had picked up on your first post regarding Rom's movement.

What does 'intrinsic' mean, Rick? I think Ross, is a Catch-22 for me, because he see's the game much better from a deeper position, but the defensive side of his game is almost non-existent.

Merry Christmas all. COYBs

As Ernie Baywood says, where is the player who dominated Arsenal at the Emirates end of 2013, erasing the darling Wilshere, in the best performance I have seen from an Everton side in many years? Indeed, where has that Everton gone?

I have had the pleasure to watch Tyson live in his prime three times. An animal, a wrecking ball with the quickest feet of any heavyweight including my all time hero, Ali.

Please don't use him as an analogy. Nothing at all to liken his situation to Ross's.

It had been the same the season before, up until January 2nd when Moyes won his last league away match as an Everton manager, but in many ways the first part of that season, was equally as good for me.

Back to Barkley, and he disappointed me three times against Liverpool, the other night. In the first half he waited for Lukaku with his back to goal to come and get the ball, and only when Rom turned and ran away did Ross burst on to it. (I thought "Go and take the initiative, Ross Barkley, or you will never improve.")

Second time was when he shit out of the tackle with Klavan. He might well be a sensitive kid, but he was playing for Everton against Liverpool, and he should have flown right in to that challenge,

The last time was for his reckless challenge on Henderson, which would have been a lot more acceptable if he would have flown right into the challenge he shit out of.

But I left Goodiso, at least feeling that the kid had tried really hard, which is why Koeman saying what he did to the press today really disappoints me because I feel that Ross Barkley, will be feeling that he can't really win now, after reading what his manager has just said in the public domain...

Any truly great (or aspiring to be great) manager, would therefore have planned accordingly, with the onus of motivating and getting the best out of a squad that needed nurturing and building up, mentally and physically, while he quietly went about the job of gradually bringing in the necessary replacements and reinforcements he felt we needed.

Instead, we have a manager who seems very high on his own self-esteem, but who appears to think that public castigation of his players is acceptable as he seeks to deflect any blame for our poor performances away from himself.

One of the chief areas of criticism we consistently levelled at Roberto Martinez was his apparent lack of a workable Plan B. So far, I think many of us find it difficult to work out what Koeman's Plan A is, never mind a Plan B. He has no idea of his best XI, and has only recently virtually stumbled upon the fact that a 4-4-2 line-up actually seems to work for us, but will he run with it? I doubt it.

Instead of publicly criticising Ross Barkley or any member of our squad, Koeman should first look at himself and decide exactly what his playing strategy for Everton FC is going to be and then work hard WITH the players in putting it into practice.

Sadly, for me, I feel his detachment from the players is monumentally self-destructive and counter-productive. I already feel that our players have little respect for the man and his methods, and where Martinez went over the top in 'bigging up' his players, Koeman has swung totally in the opposite direction by belittling players like Barkley and undermining already low levels of self-esteem and confidence within the squad. He seems obsessed with Lukaku who has shown so little of late and his constant talk of how important he is to the team simply isn't backed up by irrefutable facts that show Rom to be one of the laziest players in the Premier League.

Koeman is not the right man for Everton. There, I've said it, and if I'm proved wrong, I'll be happy to admit it and apologise; but, if I'm right, just how far below the standards (and league position) of the Martinez years will we have fallen before Moshiri realises his mistake in appointing the man?

When asked about Ross, Koeman speaks plainly and true. I don't think he wants to get rid of Ross at all. He wants him to take responsibility equal to his talent.

Moyes, Hodgson, and now Koeman have talked about Barkley's need to improve his game. All three are wrong? No, they aren't. Under Moyes, he has to get a pass as a teenager used to dominating other teens, suddenly placed into a disciplined, first-rate EPL side. So fair enough there.

Now, 5 seasons later, 3 months shy of his 24th birthday, Koeman's talking about the same need for improvements? It's on Ross.

He should be able to get there. With all our talk, it's not as if he's been a complete bust so far. Anyway, he will or he won't and we'll see.

Oh, and I'm in the "Keep him" camp. A genuine talent.

Why were Man City after Rodwell?

Stones too. Praised to the heavens. Other than a huge salary increase, how's that working out?

Pep is discovering what Koeman has. For playing regularly for 3 seasons, these kids have a lot of learn.

Like all businesses, they had some spare cash that would have gone to the taxman if not spent. Guess Rodwell was a tax write-off.

Maybe Rooney was right to get out before fan pressure destroyed him. In Barkley's defence he seems to be getting blamed for a team that is collectively playing badly.

The difference is, all these greats showed the skills on a regular basis and didn't just rely on a manager or team mates or an arm around the shoulder to display the skills.

I think Ross would be much better coming on at half-time and doing his super skilled juggling act with the ball, then he would get the applause and adulation posters think he deserves.

I remember Osman was much the same. A couple of loans seemed to help him and he developed into a steady player.

Perhaps Barkley would benefit from a loan to Bournemouth, which has helped Wilshere this season!

Koeman hasn't played 4-4-2. The last two games have been 4-1-4-1. Before that, 4-2-3-1.

I agree with that; I think neither Barkley or Stones was coached properly and as a result they've missed out on a lot the last 3 years.

Paul (#131), possibly the worstest piece of English I have read in a long tame mate. Were you pissed when you written it like?

Merry Christmas mate and to everyone else.

This in reality is the reason for his stats being down allied to a loss of confidence by being dropped by Allardyce, Southgate and Koeman. The fact is that last season he got I think 22 goals and assists which is bloody good for a 21/22-year-old.

It would be madness to sell him and this talk of his contract not being a priority (while 3 others sign and Lukaku is about to sign) is deeply worrying especially as Koeman says it may not be until February (conveniently after the transfer window ends).

If Koeman really wants to keep Ross he really needs to say so but so far he has been stopping well short of that.

In 60 odd years of watching Everton I don't think I've ever known a player who has so polarised opinion. That in itself tells you something. A bit like Thatcher.

I supported Koeman's appointment from the outset, thinking there must be substance behind a ٤M/year appointment, especially given that he was head-hunted by Everton. However, having observed his actions and words since June, and seen our performances on the pitch, I am now uncertain about my support.

I wouldn't necessarily support getting rid of him, but I am concerned by his words and actions, his general style, and would hope that he reviews and changes these. None of us are perfect, and every senior manager in any industry has room to improve on their performance.

What really concerns me is his repeated focus on individual players. I realise it's often in reply to a question, but there are many ways to skin a cat when replying to the media.

His comments about Niasse (saying he's effectively shite) and Lukaku (implying he could be better off leaving Everton) are in my opinion unprofessional. By that, I mean he has a duty to act and speak in the best interests of Everton, and these examples are contrary to that requirement. This is not negotiable, he has this duty, and is not free to make any comments he wants to make (in response to questions or otherwise) without this constraint of professionalism.

Similarly, I am concerned by his comments about Barkley. Koeman's job is to make the best use of the players available, utilising what players can do rather than focusing on what they cannot do. This is the basic professional skill of a manager, a necessary condition for showing competence in your job.

The situation with Koeman, and the comments we make on TW about him, is not a polarised one, where we're for or against him, but one of commenting realistically as time wears on and we see his words and actions.

He probably doesn't read TW, but if he does, I would say to him, reduce your public criticism of your players (your staff), measure more carefully how you respond to the media, and focus more on your responsibilities as a manager, ie, ensuring an effective system on the pitch for using the skills you have at your disposal.

Some people seem unable, or unwilling though, to recognize that the lad, in a footballing sense, is not very intelligent. I admire how fellow Blues stick by him. Some won't have a word said against him, but the fact remains he's just not clever enough to make the most of his skills.

The set of skills he has will get you so far, and no further, because if your brains not ticking away and thinking of the next move before you've even completed the one your involved in at the time, then you're going to reach a ceiling that you'll never break through.

Ross is in the unfortunate position of being the next "big" homegrown, proper Scouser we can all love and be proud of since Rooney. He carries the weight of our hopes and dreams for Everton. If any one of us wanted a player to score a screamer to win us the derby, the cup, or the goal that won us the Premier League, it would be Ross.

I stopped him In Liverpool One the week before the season started and after apologising profusely for encroaching on his time had my photo taken with him, wished him all the best for the opening game against Spurs, and said "You'll score for us next week mate."

I tell you that to show that I love him to bits as well as the next Evertonian, BUT I accept that he's not going to develop the smarts, the guile, the intelligence to be as good as we all hope and pray that he will be.

It's nothing to do with training, it's nothing to do with good or bad managers, nothing to do with formations or positions. It's to do with his innate make up. What he needs, to be who we really want him to be, can't be taught or trained into him.

You can't make someone clever. You're either born with it, or you're not. He wasn't. Personally I try to enjoy the lads play and accept that what he is, is what we have.

I'll love him and support him when he wears that shirt, but I won't be expecting in a season or two, or three that he'll magically develop into something he's not. I've never hoped to be totally and completely wrong about something so much, but I'm almost sure I won't be.

NSNO.

Surely then the ridiculous speculation about his future would be sorted out; remember though, his last loan period at Leeds, it wasn't good, was it.

Oh, I see.

Some would have thought it was to do with signing a young English player with "potential" that they rated and that, by the time he left, most Blues thought wasn't going to do it, due to a few factors, and were glad to take the 㾶 million on. The similarities with the Barkley situation are numerous.

That clearly wasn't the case. Thank God you've solved that.

We all know Ross has not lived up to his potential but he isn't the first and he may never be any better than he is except sporadically. Other players have been underachieving this season but Koeman is not naming them, why?

Something is wrong and I suspect Koeman does not quite have the qualities we all hoped he had to offer Everton.

3 seasons ago Ross was the hottest kid on the block. His form was outstanding and the whole team was playing well.

Since then the stay-aways have returned to their seats and the stadium has turned negative again. The bad vibes have poured down on to the pitch and destroyed the confidence in the players. Being a homegrown player Ross has got the brunt of it. When the grey skies turn blue again, we will see the best of Barkley.

Happy Xmas and a happy new year to all blues.
COYB

Good point regarding Koeman, as I said earlier, he was a world class player. History is littered with world class players that have been poor managers. They often feel players should reach the standards they did themselves, but it rarely happens. The best managers build a team to suite the players they have, then improve the team over time.

Koeman needs to get the best out of what he has, then build on from that. Putting players down publicly is not the way to achieve this. Hope he gets the players to improve us before he moves on to bigger things.

So in my time, Harvey, Ball, Kendall, Royle, Hurst, Labone, Wright, through to Rooney were all established and accepted as either good, very good or potentially great by the age of 23.

So, unless he is a very late developer, I'm not holding my breath about Ross, sadly.

Talented but no footballing brain at all. Never going to be a great player.

I feel he needs Unsworth and that kind of backing for a while; put him in the U-23 with Deulofeu.

We gave David Moyes 11 years Why only give Koeman 11 weeks?

Remember, the backbone of a team is a goalkeeper and central defender. Koeman lost both (Howard & Stones). We also had the disappointment of the Euros where our players were undermined by Hodgson (ex Liverpool) with Barkley & Stones not playing any part and Jags a bit-part palyer.

Barkley has been further undermined by both Allardyce and Southgate not selecting him. Critisicm of Koeman is uncalled for. Give him time.

The kicker in American football? Really? Notice you didn't choose the quarterback for one skill, throwing. Why not? Could it be that quarterbacks need to be able to read the defence and the game and anticipate when a receiver is breaking off a route or is sealed off the route and has to alter it? Isn't a quarterback closer to the creative player Ross is supposed to be? Guess it is that Ross has no footballing brain that you chose the kicker then?

As a foreign fan, the "home-grown" tag means little to me other than being a little more patient with a player. The fact is, Ross isn't good enough. However, since he is English, 23, and has, to some, an upside, then Everton should sell him before he is 26 and has no value and no potential.

Peter,

I read your lengthy post and have concluded you are saying Ross should not be criticised as it doesn't help him. Ironic post coming from you. So a local boy is sensitive but a foreign player to a new country and city isn't? I guess, your next post will be warm and fuzzy regarding Lukaku instead of the usual then?

Happy Xmas to one and all, even the nutters... and we all know who we are!!

Jim, perhaps cross purposes? A kicker was chosen because, apart from the obvious physical talent, a kicker needs and has no requirement for mental adroitness required to do his role.

Ross is that player – physically gifted but nil mental acuity. Get rid, sell and move on.

Get off his back and support him. We'll reap the rewards. he manager has to protect him.

Having read most of the comments and the various conflicting views, I'm inclined to think "he might never will" is a very apt turn of phrase.

Seasons greetings one and all.

It's Everton or bust mate. Let's see some of that natural talent coupled with a bit of better decision-making.

I wish you could be right.

Not convinced sadly but would be delighted to be proved wrong.

I'd sell him and let this debate pass elsewhere. Find another coach or group of supporters to blame.

Arm around his shoulder my arse! Grow up!

Baines was a class act as was Barry even Howard was a top class keeper however their days are well passed. We have some useful young players and when Geri plays in the middle he is a revelation, am I the only one who sees this? I don't rate Bolasie, McCarthy, Lukaku is a big strong player and is reminiscent of Big Bob Latchford. As for the rest of the players non of them excite me.

I am a fan of Ross but I am not sure he fits in to the Koeman style of play which is to close down play all over the park. There does not seem to be too many places for creative players in Koeman's team, he just wants work horses and I do not think Ross fits this mould.

While Koeman publicly criticises Ross, I never here him say anything negative about Lukaku and he has to be the laziest player I have ever seen. This just does not make sense. There seems to be a different law for the striker.

Also I just cannot get inspired about Depay and Schneiderlin as they only have 11 minutes of first team football between them this season. if they are not good enough for the Man Utd team why should they be good enough for us? And on top of that they will cost £40M. My preference would be to spend that money on a single quality player that will make a real difference to the team and then introduce the youngsters.

Koeman has still got a long way to go to convince me he is the right man for the job and slagging Barkley off, week-in & week-out, does nothing to inspire me he knows what he is doing. It is his job to get the best out of each of the players and he has not shown he has the capability to do that yet.

He's 23 going on 24 and 'good' players show their skill long before reaching that age.

And I cannot recall one player that such a number of reasons have been put forward to explain his performances or lack of them.

But we cannot know this. We speculate. We become frustrated, we fall out, we argue. We stick to our opinions come what may. Like being in a family I suppose.

But there remain a couple of things that are unarguable. He is not delivering for the team. He is making the same errors of judgement he was making several years ago. And he is 23.

When can you recall,in all your time watching Everton having this level of debate about the potential of a 23 year old with a lot more than 100 first team games behind him?

No, me neither.

That is why, for the sake of my emotional and physical Heath I have come to the conclusion that we are flogging a dead horse here. Let him go elsewhere and let others have the debate, and if he finds the perfect coach, the perfect team set up, his confidence and game intelligence bloom and he delivers, I for one will be delighted for him.

We've probably both seen better players than Ross leave Everton over the years.

As I said previously, I suspect this whole thing is more an issue of management than of any individual player.

I dare Koeman slag Lukaku in public the same way, in fact I double dare him!, then we can talk again.

Ronnie, if you want to see the best from young Ross, give him the armband and build your team around him and big Rom; you will not be disappointed.

I would even consider bringing Wayne back to play alongside our Ross.

Bring back Wayne Rooney? Barkley as captain?

Please explain Barkley's captain credentials to lead Everton.... You are having a laugh – right?

Barkley was 23 on December the 5th. Stop adding years to his age to suit your argument. In addition, his development was stopped for 18 months following his leg break – something that should be taken into account.

We and Koeman need to give him some slack, especially Koeman, who should be talking to him behind closed doors and not continually berating him in the press. He needs encouraging, which he may well have had, but to date we have not seen much of an improvement.

He is a terrifically gifted player but, having had quite a few seasons to make his case, he has failed for want of that footballing brain. He runs into too many cul-de-sacs because he cant see a pass and eventually is dispossessed or gives the ball away. It does not help that Lukaku does not run into space thus giving him more of an option or that our midfielders don't support him more.

In many ways he is as technically gifted as Gazza, but without that tactical brain Gazza had.

I think we should give him to the end of the season to see if he does make the grade in some position, but if not, it would be best in out interest and his for him to move on and to find another club. If he can't make the grade, we need to move him on before his value takes a major hit.