Nil Satis Nisi Optimum? Moshiri's own goal falls well short of Blues' motto

There is no identify about Everton, Koeman seems to be doing what England managers have done down the years, just try to shoehorn in, all his best players (in his eyes) and hope it works.
It is unforgivable that a manager on £6m a year cannot work out basic team formations, and doesn't know how to keep morale high, in all circumstances.

Where are his leadership skills?

It seems that you can be a manager in the PL, and have no evaluation processing on things like, team formations or managing the media.

10 games in, he needs to be on 11 or 12 points.

Alas, Moshiri and Koeman don't really care, and it's becoming very obvious. Now, we don't really need Moshiri to care, we just need him to be competent, ruthless, it's not really about emotion.

I'm afraid though that performance on the pitch and success in the league, while it would be great for the brand image, is just a minor concern. It's just about profile and business investments. Abramovich is doing this too, but he got in early enough in the recent billionaire explosion where the competition wasn't so fierce and so was able to deliver success too.

With FFP and the six clubs above us, it's going to be really difficult for someone like Moshiri to deliver success without bankrupting himself, which he's not going to do. Kenwright is the dark master behind all this. Letting Moshiri run the club while he continues to manipulate. Kenwright wants Everton to be successful but he can't let go, like a classic villain who thinks he's the good guy, smothering us with his ‘love'.

Unsworth (I don't care if he fails, give him a chance) has a connection with the club, understands how good these young players are, sets his teams up in a way that will get the fans going at the now poisonously silent Goodison Park. If you bring in someone like Ancelotti they won't understand any of this, and will have to have it explained to them by someone like Unsworth, if they're willing to listen.

But Koeman is Moshiri's man, he'll be here till at least next season. They deserve each other.

The sound bites from Koeman in the summer would suggest that he didn't get all the players he desired and now he's left with shoehorning in a bunch of misfits .

This does not excuse the performances and he's a dead man walking if we fail to beat Brighton and show up against Lyon, but it may explain the backing from Moshiri.

But lately I don't find myself getting upset anymore, perhaps it's my 'anger management classes' or more likely the hope has been well and truly grounded out of me after 40 years of supporting this football club and a sense of apathy has ultimately crept in.

1. Koeman must be relieved a.s.a.p .The damage done is serious cut away the cause
   
2. Put Unsworth in charge to rebuild shattered confidence of players and improve from the rock bottom moral around the club
3. Issue a statement distancing the club from crazy damaging reports like the Andy Carroll one etc
4. 
   Invite applications from proven successful managers only
5. 
   Replace club captain with a stronger more vocal personality

Have you found out why we didn't get a decent centre forward or don't you care ? Why didn't we get a left sided centre half and cover for Baines. Its not rocket science to coin a phrase. What were Walsh, Koeman and Kenwright doing all year ? They all knew Lukaku was leaving didn't they ? Lukaku , his agent and Man u did.

You have become what Everton is all about - FAILURE.

So start getting Everton and Evertonains or ship out and most of all start managing the club or your investment, if you have in fact invested, will disappear as quickly as the blues aspirations for this season.

Talking during yesterday's game, our kid said that the club was rotten, from top to bottom, I disagreed and said we were only rotten on the pitch, and this will hopefully be rectified soon enough when we change our manager?

I just hope I'm fuckin right for once, otherwise things are going to turn really nasty, very quickly, I think.

Moshiri gave the go ahead to pursue Koeman, who didn't even bother to come back from his holiday early. Moshiri also made the final decision not to pursue Pelligrini.

This is not the actions of John Moore, it is more in the league of Jimmy White. Moores would have never been caught dead in the presence of Jim White and his yellow tie and he wouldn't have never taken his phone call.

Moshiri's last communication with Jimmy White regarding the Barkley transfer was highly unprofessional and according to Barkley not true.

We are dealing with Muppets. God help all long suffering Everton Supporters, things could get worse.

I think some people on here are permanently up in arms about something. People are now offended by Moshiri giving the manager a vote of confidence- what do you expect him to do?

We need to try to get behind the team and manager. We are only hurting ourselves feeding all this negativity. The damage was done in the summer with the recruitment - we can't change that now. We need to get behind the team as much as we can, because even if you don't like the manager, there are young lads in the team that need support - Keane, Pickford, Davies, DCL etc.

Sacking a manager is easy it placates the fans, but don't think by sacking Koeman things will suddenly become better. You only have to see that Hodgson as yet has made no difference at Palace, in fact some of their fans are saying its got worse. I know that many have suggested that Unsworth be given a try, but its a big step up from the Under 23s to Premier league . And would he want the job, the pressure would be huge and even though he may be the fans choice, if results didnt improve they would probably want him replaced by Xmas if they had sacked Koeman.

Imagine if Burnley's Dyche and his board had those type of thoughts. We may have actually got 3 points. But no small club Burnley came with a point to prove and wanted to mix it. So why do we just rollover time and again and whinge about excuses.

Actions speak louder than words.

Smells familiar? Yes, it's that old Kenwrightian stale aroma loitering and lingering in the cool, damp, night air.

But did we really need to hear it from the horse's mouth?

Hell, no.

It was written in 40 foot tall flourescent lights when we - unlike Southampton in the Van Dijk case - crumbled and let a rival in the same sodding league sign our best player.

Of course the same issues will confront a new manager as much as they confront Koeman now. At the moment and for too long now, Koeman seems incapable of addressing those issues and unfortunately nobody at the club - fans apart - seems in the least bit concerned about it.

Evertonians don't create the negativity they only react to what they see on the pitch and what they feel is happening behind the scenes at the club. It's long been said that Evertonians as a group are happy clappers prepared to put up with anything that the club throws at them and for much of the last twenty years there has been some truth in that, however, even the most optimistic among us are now facing the truth, perhaps for the first time.

I'm sure that many of us would prefer to come on this site and other outlets extolling the virtues of our manager and our team but we haven't had much cause to do that, particularly in the last few years. I'm also certain that we would all like to enter Goodison Park believing that we would see our team put in a performance and win the odd game or two.

Why has the team only managed one single Premier League game away from Goodison this calender year, why is our away form in general so poor in the last few years?

We as a group were led to believe that Moshiri would lead us to new glory, that may have been wishful thinking on our behalves and as we examine each statement, each action and each appointment we can only respond to what we see, hear or read.

I personally don't think we are on the brink of a bright new dawn, in fact I think it is quite the opposite unless something unforseen and dramatic happens in the very near future.

Thanks for your balanced response. I agree with pretty much everything you say to be honest. I guess I'm just trying to keep things in perspective. I know the performances have been crap. But just like I refuse to write off new signings like Klassen and Sigurdsson after half a dozen games, I also want to believe that the manager can turn things around. For me, sacking the manager has to be the final straw, and I don't believe we are there yet.

To be honest, I am surprised Lyndon has written such an opinionated piece on Moshiri's vote of confidence for Koeman. I am wondering if he is just trying to pour more fuel on the fire - only Lyndon can answer that.

Again, just to be clear, I fully acknowledge that things have been crap. But are we at the point of no return for Koeman? That's a big decision, that I am guessing would cost over £20 million for the club to get rid of him and his team, and then possibly another £10 million to get replacements in. I wouldn't like to to take that decision lightly - I would much rather give Koeman the chance to turn this around. If things don't improve in the next month or so, then we can make the decision with more justification.

Now I just want any manager who can fire up the players, get them fit and play in a recognised formation and strategy that looks to win games. Some pace, aggression and creativity. Is that really too much to ask?

With the odd few games here and there, let's be honest, Everton have generally been shit to watch for a good 20 years now. Yes we had a good period now and then under Moyes and Martinez' first season, but the vast majority of the time we have been shite and one of the most boring teams to watch. Still get a shudder when I think of Neville and Heitinga in midfield or the 05/06 season start where we scored one goal in the opening 8 league games - one and only Marcus Bent against Bolton.

Why can we not find a fucking half decent manager for once? I really believe an up and coming manager who's already managed at a decent championship club or prem club would be the answer. Unsworth is unproven and the U23s is no real training to take the top job so not sure about that, it's a big ask but at least he knows the club inside out I guess.

We certainly don't need to be paying the next guy 6m a year. We just need someone who knows how to play it simple, has common sense and doesn't have an ego the size of the titanic. Just get is a half decent manager with a bit of fire about him. Cant be that difficult surely? We're a top div club with an average gate of almost 40k!

Hind sight is 20 20 but we paid 70m for Klaassen and Sigurdsson - 70m would have gotten us Mahrez and Vardy - pace, width, creativity, striker.

By the way, boys, if we were expected to beat a team who had drawn at Spurs, Liverpool and beaten Chelsea, we should be beating Brighton 7-0 in our next game... so not all doom and gloom.

We exhibit no discernible football identity on the pitch. What are we? What is our style of football?

He's be in charge for nigh on 60 competitive games. The reaction you are seeing & feeling is not one of a fan base who wants to lynch a manager after 7 games!

Every game he manages is counted. And from the very first to the yesterday there is patently no identity to the team. No germ of nythingbto give a short changed fanbase much needed succour.

Are you just trying to defend ‘short termism' or are you actually saying keep Koeman? To what end? What do you think he can achieve, other than brooding on a bunch of players for a year so they magically come good in his last contracted season? I wonder why that would be.

Truly, nothing in your rhetoric is remotely positive about the man. It more a pointed reference to an argument that doesn't exist.

Moshiri's words are kerosene on an already raging bonefire, Koeman's effigy is lucky not to be on it.

We have as a fanbase been played like the classic fool. Distracted by the sparkly stadium we dream of whilst Rome burns on the pitch and Moshiri fiddles.

Kenwright could not have scripted a better play. In the end he comes back to save the club again...

Why should it be necessary to have to invest 200m to get into the top 4? Leicester didn't? To me with a sensible and motivational manager on board, 2 left sided defenders, Coleman hopefully back to his best supported by Kenny, prune the midfield, play with width, and find a quality striker (that's the key) then we should move forward and fast.

So again, a new manager has plenty to play with if he makes use of what he has. We don't need a striker to play good football, just a plan.

In a shit team he is looking past it. But he's hardly helped by no pace in the side, no width,Sigurdsson and him getting in each others way.

The time I bomb Rooney out is hopefully after Williams, Martina et al.

Nil Satis Nisi Raiseexpectationsium.

Nil Satus Nisi Letusdownagainium.

Nil Satis Nisi Mediocreium.

Nil Satis Nisi Cantbearsedwithevertonium.

The Subterfuge stadium dream, rapidly turning into groundhog day.

Anybody got anything inspiring to write?

Last Summer we had the "McCarthy is family we didn't want Sissoko anyway" balls up; last TDD the live phone in to Talk Sport which was beyond toe curling, then yesterday's "expected defeats" pearler.

He may be a savvier businessman than Kenwright but his PR style is as inept as the on field performances we've seen so far this season.

Sigurdsson behind the attackers and Rooney up front with Calvert-Lewin, Niasse and Sandro as back-up strikers. Tom Davies in the middle alongside Gueye and Klaassen. Martina (until Coleman is fit) at right-back, Baines at left-back, Keane and Jagielka as centre-backs.

Williams on the bench with Schneiderlin, Holgate & Kenny.

I can understand why the whole of this thread is negative. Shit, it started with Lyndon looking to popularise the negativity. Is this a "stir it up" so that the lynching squad grows to oust Koeman? Certainly not been too impressive has he?

Honestly, Moshiri has already pumped a shitload of money in to Everton and so why would he want to see this project fail? There is no sense to this part of the thought process. The guy isn't stupid or he wouldn't have been so successful in business.

Beyond this, we all want the very best for Everton and, perhaps, Koeman is the wrong choice (certainly looks that way just now). Seems we've jumped "frying pan to fire" from Bobby Brown Shoes to "Captain Koeman". Well, De Boer didn't last to long at the Palace and they seem to be hopping frying pans and fires. Question: is Moshiri just keeping faith with his original choice, unlike the Palace "Hoppites"?

There is little doubt that there is more than an element of truth in his remarks and that is one of the reasons that I may have come across as 'alarmist' in my earlier post. Everton don't have an infinite amount of money and therefore the club is unable to throw money at a problem to help find a solution to our current situation.

Therefore the people in the boardroom are more responsible than in previous eras for the success or failure of the team – they will argue that they have given the manager their full support via transfers etc but would probably acknowledge that they have also let him down in one or two areas too, which is likely why they will stick with Koeman for the remainder of this season.

Perhaps, Everton would have been better served sticking to their tried and tested ways of allowing the manager to dictate the direction of football matters which at least provided everybody with a focal point and was transparent as to who was responsible for recruitment.

All we can hope for is that Ronald spends the next couple of weeks having a good think about possible solutions and that he can transmit some positivity into his players when they return from International duty – if of course he wants to remain in charge for the full length of his contract. If he feels that he can't find the solutions or indeed as has been rumoured he doesn't want to continue – he should do the honourable thing and remove himself from the job.

What shitload of money has Moshiri already pumped in mate? The club's own money has been pissed away but we are at a nearly level net spend for the last two years. Moshiri is like Koeman – he is a fraud.

I have no doubt Kenwright is behind these pathetic public out pourings that spew from Moshir'is mouth every few weeks. "James McCarthy is family" etc. We are being kidded once again. Does anyone still believe Bramley-Moore will happen? Not a chance.

The fact Ronald Koeman isn't on the ferry back to Holland right now is enough proof that Moshiri is incompetent and clueless regarding our club. Kenwright is laughing his socks off. When the official announcement comes that we are not going to the docks site, Moshiri will take the flak. Kenwright at his slippery best.

I gave up believing this shower who run Everton a long time ago. I suggest you all do the same. It appears the players already have.

This season will be the worst for a long time, because most Evertonians' hated player, Lukaku, is not around anymore to offer any semblance of an attacking force. What makes matters worse, £200 million has be spent to get to this situation.

Moshiri is becoming an embarrassment with his use of a mouthpiece and Koeman simply doesn't cut the mustard. Sean Dyche showed him up to be out of his depth.

I have a great deal of respect for the regular posters on TW but I refuse to believe we have purchased bad players. We have good players (too many Number 10s admittedly) but they are completely devoid of confidence, which comes directly from the manager. However, I then think to myself this is a manager chosen by Moshiri who is now also showing he is out of his depth.

With this latest addition of the Russian scout coming in from Arsenal, we keep loading our beloved club with the wrong Russians. Get Alisher Usmanov in asap and let Moshiri, his grin and his mouthpiece become history as quickly as Koeman hopefully becomes.

Trouble is, as soon as a player excels and is noticed by the wider football world, we end up selling him. That, combined with the difficulty of attracting top established players, means it's difficult to see us progressing.

Under these circumstances, it's essential to have a manager who can really organise the team with good tactics and selections, and inspire the players to want to play for him. To make the best of what we have. It's become apparent that Koeman isn't that man.

But even if we replace Koeman with the 'right man', it's not certain he wouldn't be undermined by the apparent eagerness of the board to sell our best players as soon as they see a healthy profit to be made.

It seems that Everton's aspirations extend only to competing high up the Premier League, anything bigger having a cost that the board might consider disproportionate to the business benefit. A pure and cold business calculation. Perhaps a misguided business calculation (and perhaps selling Lukaku for the amount we did is an indicator of this).

So the board pump out the propaganda, the big talk in lieu of big action, to keep us paying punters paying, raising expectations then letting us down.

Now, this is not necessarily totally negative, because if we do consistently compete near the top (top-6?) of the Premier League, the chances of winning trophies increases. Most of the time, we'd be nearly winning, but occasionally we might win something. Much like Liverpool over the last two decades, and possibly like Spurs are turning out to be like. But I think that's it, no bigger than that, unless someone (like Usmanov?) comes in and makes us truly big, using lots of cash.

But unless that happens, it's mainly bullshit propaganda to raise our expectations, progressing to a state of being 'up there near the top' but seldom really winning anything. That could make a lot of supporters happy, but it wouldn't be glory like we used to have.

Moshiri needs to stop using fucking Jim White as his mouthpiece because it comes across as unprofessional and is so cringeworthy, plus White is a Rangers fan I think, no connection to the club whatsoever.

I also think Monchi was the first choice for director of football and not Walsh but he can't really be blamed for the utter shite we have to put up with every match.

That is Koeman and his coaching staff, that includes big Dunc too. What do they do at training? There doesn't seem to be any tactical plan at all and our set-pieces still stink the place out.

The club needs to get out of this seemingly permanent place of utter garbage mediocrity and start aiming for the best. That means scouting for first team players and high potential young players from all over the world, not just England.

It also needs to actively encourage more of our academy players into the first team, look at Man Utd, Barca etc.

If we get the new state of the art stadium at Bramley Moore Dock, there's no point of it if we don't have a world class playing squad and management team.

To be honest, talk of sacking Koeman has reared its head from the last 7 or so games! Last season, we had a good season, for which Koeman deserves credit. We finished a creditable 7th, had our best home record in Premier League history I think (although admittedly, our away record could have been better).

We also saw Davies, Holgate, Lookman and Calvert-Lewin breaking into the first team, so lots of good things happened last season. The team was much fitter and better organised, and nobody was talking of sacking Koeman last season.

The summer was one of the most positive summers I have known as an Evertonian. We brought in several good players, and the mood among the fanbase was probably as good as I have known it going into a new season.

We then started the season by winning our Europa League games, beating Stoke, and drawing away at Man City. Again, everyone was happy at this point with our progress.

The wheels came off when the transfer window closed and we hadn't bought a new striker to replace Lukaku. I don't think any of us ever imagined a scenario where we wouldn't get a striker in at all, even on loan.

So talk of replacing the manager is very much from the last month or so.

Some of us were on to Koeman last season, mate. Our away form was pathetic: two wins all season. Knocked out of two cups at home one of those loses by Norwich City. Apart from the 4-0 win over Man City we were awfully in the big games – two more loses to Liverpool to go with it.

The only reason we had any kind of a decent season was the Lukaku goals. Lukaku was here before Koeman and once Romelu left, Koeman was truly exposed. Last season wasn't that great really.

Lukaku has been carrying the team for 3 years. Without him playing well, we had nothing. Now without him at all we look clueless.

Management wise, we need to get back to Everton basics then look again at the end of the season. The club is soulless at the moment.

Without Lukaku to bail us out Koeman is lost. The games last season when Romelu failed to perform we either lost or threw away winning leads. Last season's bad form added to the abysmal start this campaign has shown Koeman up.

Persist with Koeman much longer and we will go deeper in to the mire. Get him out and let someone else try to save what's left of the season – those are the choices. Do you really want Koeman at the club when the Xmas derby comes along?

My concern is Moshiri hasn't got the funds to buy Koeman out of his ridiculous contract. Why else would a so-called shrewd operator keep a dud like Koeman at the helm?

I had this nagging feeling that too many new faces was not good. Koeman has been trying to blend these new faces as justification for amount spent on them. We had a good solid team base to build on and it has been destroyed.

We should have introduced a few players and prioritised a top striker.This surely was the way to go. I also think Koeman looked at the season start fixtures and decided there and then that the first five fixtures were a dead loss, so let's experiment.only thing is bad habits are hard to break and now we are deep in trouble.

Let that sink in for a second...

Almost a quarter of a billion on players in 14 months and look at the state the squad is in and unlike Martinez who left assets on the pitch Koeman has wasted it all on late 20-somethings with little resale value.

Last year, a young red asked me why Ronald Koeman would join Everton. At the time, I told him about our history, our ambition, and how big we are compared with the likes of Southampton.

On Sunday, during the Burnley game, the same young red said to me, looks like you chose the wrong side to support (in terms of whether I chose to support Everton or Liverpool when I was younger).

This young red is 17, and started supporting Liverpool when he was about 7. I asked him how many major trophies he had witnessed Liverpool win, particularly how many league titles. He didn't say anything, just kind of looked at me.

I said to him, I started supporting Everton in 1962, when I was 7, and by the time I was his age, I'd seen two league titles and an FA Cup, plus mainly constant finishes near the top of the league. Not only that, but Everton were by far the best side in Britain in terms of sheer quality of football, the pinnacle being the 67-69 seasons when we were astonishingly good.

I only said this to him because of what he said to me, not because I'm an old git wanting to go on about how great we used to be. However, what I said to him was important, because at the end of the day football is all about entertainment and making the hairs stand up on the back of your neck. And the first 8 years of my support for Everton represents, to me, the meaning of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

At present, I can't see how we'll get anywhere near that level, unless someone with a massive heap of riches makes us big. In this sense, Nil Satis Nisi Optimum belongs to history, having little or nothing to do with the present.

Sean (#61) – chilling thoughts!

You have turned £140m (less £90m for Lukaku) into "almost a quarter of a billion."

I get your point mate but please don't over-exaggerate the situation.

What some of us seem to forget is that Koeman begged for months for a striker and left-sided cover and was left wanting by Billy Boy yet again. I believe he spat his dummy out and it's affecting the players now.

Personally I think there is a major problem at the core of the club.

Moshiri said "We're not a museum." In the general sense that we're a living football club, that's right, we're clearly not a museum. However, in the more specific sense of 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum', we are very much a museum.

Evertonians of my vintage have seen the full spectrum, from sheer greatness to utter shite. The sheer greatness is the association with 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum'.

Instead of Moshiri saying "We're not a museum" I suggest he just says nothing, and just gets on with the job of making us better. If and when we ever reach the stage of being great again, then he can say "We're truly not a museum". Until then, all the talk is just that, talk. In terms of 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum' it's empty talk, mere bullshit from a guy with lots of dosh but perhaps not enough dosh to make us great again.

Some of us can recognise both greatness and shite, because we've lived through both. If Moshiri is going to talk about some sort of 'project', perhaps he should be clear what that project is. I suspect the project is one of having us 'there or thereabouts' in relation to being near the top, rather than a project to make us really compete at the very top.

So, Moshiri and your colleagues on the board, less talking and more getting on with it? Less propaganda and more realism, less attempts to fool us that we're heading somewhere big? Because, thus far, there's no evidence that we are. We can recognise greatness, and we can recognise shite when we see it, and not everyone is willing to pay good money to watch shite.

He is selling off the talented stars and replacing them with... not-so-talented stars. If Moshiri was the real deal, those players would not be sold but, instead, players would have been bought to build around them. Doesn't mean they'd stay forever;they obviously would not. But that is far different than selling to fund player acquisitions.

Sacked Martinez.
Hired Koeman.
Sold our prized assets Lukaku, Stones... (Barkley to go).
Replaced our prized assets by buying cheap (only after the prized assets were sold).
We're still not even past the computer design stage for our proposed world class stadium.
Gave Goodison a repaint.

Not exactly the 2nd cComing, is it?

Please show us some real ambition Everton.

Man City's owners have been ruthless in their pursuit of glory.

We need a real winning mentality throughout the club to replace the tired and toothless mentality that exists throughout the club.

Now tell me I am paranoid but he bares a striking resemblance, with this in mind. Please sack Ken Koeman. Things are not going to improve.

Unlike us, Burnley were a tight, cohesive group, who were 'switched on' and clearly had a plan (which they delivered).

The only way I will be up for that game is either back to back convincing victories over Brighton and Lyon or for Koeman to have got the sack.

We could also, by decent management and recognition of true talent, have prevented the Barkley fiasco from happening. Not sure about the contractual situation that existed with Stones, but I imagine a really substantial 'project' could have led to us keeping him.

All-in-all, what happened does not inspire confidence that the 'project' really means anything beyond mediocre.

True, the fee fattening took a little longer than it might have done with the latter two but we all knew they were on their way as soon as they began prevaricating about how much they wanted to leave for 'a big club'.

Of course, things have changed this summer with signings made at the market's highest prices and I can see no prospect of obtaining even the buying price for any of our Koeman signings.

No doubt the failure to unload our only remaining star, Barkley, in the recent window, because 'he stood on his dignity' and refused to join Chelsea, robbed us of a new centre-forward but come Christmas and Andy Carroll can be ours. I can't but feel that it will take a miracle to turn a profit for the project on him, though!

The club (not just Koeman) will still do their damnedest to sell Barkley in the January window and appease the fans by getting in a striker if they can get away with it.

A new manager might scupper this in wanting to keep Barkley. Unless there's a further collapse in the team's performance, or if there's the merest hint that things may turn, Koeman will be here til at least January.

Paul Saleh – again, nice idea in theory but it does nothing to combat our lack of width.

I think Koeman got it badly wrong buying too many No 10s as we're hampered in our formation(s) to use them effectively. He's got to play proper wingers with pace and directness and also try help out the fullbacks to avoid getting exposed there...

As others have commented on TW, the rot is woven into the club's DNA. The suspicious way in which we get Man Utd's offal while they get our cream, the increasingly apparent attempt to generate a net spend of nil this summer, the dangerous retention of a manager who is strangulating the team's basic functionality to the extent that relegation now looks feasible... All of these issues point to charlatanism at the helm.

We're going through another false dawn with Moshiri. But the greater blame falls at the feet of the Supreme Soviet, Bill.

Like it always does.

It always does...

I think this whole thing is going just the way it was scheduled to go, with the possible exception that it was considered that Koeman would do a little better than he has with the new, "Better business" team... about as well as Southampton did for the last two seasons prior to us buying Koeman in. Those damned players alas, are not responding to the frown and scowl as they should.

If Koeman should drag it back on track to the extent that we recover to the top half of the table, it will be business as usual, I believe. Business as usual being more old guard leaving the club, Barkley for certain, and a couple more mid-quality players in, including a striker of a commensurate level (and cost).

If Koeman is here until the season ends or beyond, I wouldn't hang your hat on Lookman remaining, nor would I discount the vultures being convincingly deterred from some of our more promising younger players.

I haven't seen or heard anything to discount it.

I watched Arsenal beating Brighton on Sunday, and the Brighton supporters were singing away, apparently just happy to be in the Premier League. Easy to please, compared with us. But our supporters will no doubt get easier to please, as the time span of mediocrity gets longer. The signs already show, when you have folks wanting rid of the real high talent, wanting them replaced with runners who will 'bust a gut for Everton'.

On the current evidence, 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum' does not represent Everton anymore. It represents the bygone age of Alan Ball, a different Everton that played great football through midfield when other sides were just hitting long balls from defence to attack. In a way, we were ahead of our time then, when commentators like Wolstenholme referred to us as the School of Science.

These days, the realistic expectation is that we'll achieve the respectability of Liverpool or Spurs, where we're not exactly a laughing stock as at present, but near the top, a 'contender', without actually being the best.

Once that's achieved, and the expectations match it, and there's perhaps no longer talk of Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, Schools of Science, and the Holy Trinity, when we're consistently level with other mediocre sides like Liverpool, and we win some Derby games, most Evertonians might, like the Brighton fans on Sunday, be happy.

It's just sad. We accepted the decades of prior owners who allowed the Everton brand to crumble. We got this new owner and thought that maybe, just maybe it had changed. Maybe now we would hold onto our stars and actually spend money to build around them.

But what has happened is selling Stones at the first opportunity. Sold Lukaku with two years to run on his contract, but more importantly without even putting up a fight. They not only sold him, but did so with complete incompetence at far below market value. And then they tried so sell Barkley after completely bungling that situation.

All we've seen from Moshiri so far is a lot of talk about a new stadium and some naming rights being bought. It's on the pitch that matters. I have zero interest in a new stadium without it being part of a club aiming to win the league. Otherwise, why in the hell would any of us want to go watch Everton in some new stadium against United, Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs while those running the club expect us to lose?

A couple of seasons around the 62/63 title winning season.

A couple around the 69/70 title winning season.

Then from 84-88.

And that's it.

"We are Everton, we should be challenging for the title. We're a massive club"

Sorry, we are not.

One of the best nights of my life was in a bar just outside Rotterdam, the night we won the European Cup Winners cup, back there after the game, we sang and sang 'til the early hours of the morning, my son Tony in the bar, all in their early teens happy as could be, joining in the revelry, every one happy no trouble just pure joy.

The next morning just before we we setting off home a big black fella rolls up with two of his mates, he was the manager of the club, came to wish us all a safe journey home and to thank us for a great night.

Then just a week or so later Liverpool fans went to Heysel went berserk and we along with more English clubs landed in the sin bin with / because of them and the rest is history, yet we are the bitter bastards, life has given us Bluenoses plenty of kicks where it hurts.

But we shall return, that's my dream anyway, nearly every other night. !!!!!!!

We can only hope we can give similar days to the kids who follow us everywhere.

It seems to me that even though we may disagree about players, formations etc, we all have one thing in common.

This season frustration has turned into anger for supporters of our vintage. In my view the reason for this was eloquently summed up in this part of your post:

We can recognise greatness, and we can recognise shite when we see it, and not everyone is willing to pay good money to watch shite.

I watched the 1962 Blues beat Spurs at Goodison 1-0. Both sides had great players and great managers. What I experienced from the Bullens Rd terraces that day was football greatness.

On my recent holiday back to the England, I watched the Spurs game from the Lower Bullens. I hate to say it but we were "shite".

No wonder we are angry - but I see that as a good thing. We need to stay that way and make it known to the club's heirarchy.

Dave Abrahams # 84 - you have been at it longer than both Stan and I - you seem to be doing a good job with that lad of yours Tony:)

It is good to see you haven't lost the faith - "But we shall return, that's my dream anyway, nearly every other night. !!!!!!!". I still believe that too.

We might be "shite" now Stan but there is something glorious about our club and somehow or other we will find a way through this nightmare.

Somewhere out there is a manager that can get this group of players playing. Moshiri has to find that man for his own sake and ours.

But the Club hasn't been making a profit Stan #79.

As far as Everton is concerned I think I hope Moshiri will be more demanding on those under him. He's hardly going to want to get rid of Koeman when he was brought in by him but I'm sure he know's this isn't good enough and the club themselves are to blame for the malaise. Something's not right it's not just a bit of poor form it's a shocking manifestation from the players at what ever is going on behind the scenes. I'd love it to be just a bit of bad form, confidence, new players settling in etc love us to pick up from Brighton and win the next two cup games to kickstart the season. And we all love Koeman and live happily ever after.

It's like the end of the Martinez time all over again.

A lot of supporters will probably be satisfied by 'near the best', but others might be frustrated by it, particularly if they've assumed the 'new era' is aimed at making us the best.

For me, 'the best' means we win trophies, and with style, where we get entertained. I remember in the 60s, we were on a par with Liverpool in terms of winning trophies and League position. But Everton were 'cooler' (to use a term youngsters use) because we played very stylish football, Alex Young and Colin Harvey perhaps being the symbols of that. Catterick always talked about good football, Shankley always talked about 'pace'. The difference is 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum', where if you didn't win, or even lost, there was compensation through the sheer entertainment value of the football.

To get to a comparable level these days would probably need really big money, like City have. Otherwise it's not the best, and the motto doesn't really apply.

Laurie I know dozens of Evertonians I grew up with who have taken their sons, grandsons and great grandsons to the game, it's a creed, something we love and believe in, You have just proved it yourself with your pilgrimage to Goodison this year.

84-88 was also great, obviously, but the first years, when you're young, surely make the biggest impression, setting the 'standard' for what Everton should be. We know it can be done, we've seen it.

'60s the best days of my life. And now the worst!

You would have liked him. To this day I am still to meet a more one eyed Evertonian. I remember him telling me about listening to games on a crystal set when he was a boy.

Before he passed on he told me - "Laurie, we will be great again". We will.

The Lavender Hill mob need to stay vocal.