‘I used to stand on the Kippax but one of the reasons I stopped going was because of the moaning. Now, when you have to sit down, you can’t escape them. In the Peter Reid days, they’d be winning 2-0 and they’d be saying, “Oh, it’ll be 3-2...” The thing about the moaners is you know they’re always going to come back.’
Mark E Smith (City fan) March 2000.
‘We’re gonna win the League!’
Liverpool fan, October every year.
About three years ago, I stopped going to the game after having three consecutive stand-up arguments in three games with fans slagging Ross Barkley.
‘All he can do is run with it!’
I now go about two to three times a season, preferring to watch it in the pub. Since going as a kid, I have loved the fans’ comments – well, better when there was a certain anonymity in the terraces. Many fans definitely went the game as a reason to vent and, amongst the barbs, there were always some gems to laugh at or along with.
ToffeeWeb is now the new terraces. People cannot help themselves, especially on the Live Forum; hilarious reading after the game. At the same time, there are some ‘phenomenal’ posts. Talking/reading anything Everton is what we’re about.
After Chelsea, the comments were brilliant reading and overwhelmingly negative against Koeman. I was sick watching that shambles and I dislike his demeanour, rhetoric and dress sense. I hate the way he seemingly views us as a stepping stone, and history shows that he has mixed success with other clubs and does not seem to stay anywhere very long. I wonder whether he can motivate the players as I would want to keep on correcting his English in the team talk. I didn’t even like him as a player and can mainly remember his cheating against England and him being a bit of a fatty.
Despite all that, I am backing him and here’s why: If I were taking over Everto,n there are basically two ways to go at the beginning – attack or defence. He’s gone defence first and I agree with that because we’re never going to out-attack zillions of pounds of talent. For me, Jose Mourinho is the best manager in the world and his negative style was shocking last season, even with a wealth of talent. He, as he always has, concentrated on his team defending as a team as his first priority. Fortunately for him he could spend more millions on even more talent this season to challenge and look good – he has spent about £160 million on 3 players with virtually no outgoings as of writing.
Last season, Mourinho won a couple of cups which showed he had a squad of real talent but his style of play was horrible to watch. Once his team gets defending right, then he concentrates on the team attacking. I think Koeman is of the same ilk but is buying now just to get a solid base. Unfortunately, we are on a different level; we have to get players who are ‘good’ or ‘promising’. A different level from buying a Pogba. This is one reason for our players’ seriously bad inferiority complex when playing the top sides.
When you look at Leicester City a few years ago, they had a healthy disrespect for the top teams as well as great defensive Italian tactics to go with it. Craig Shakespeare obviously had a lot to do with geeing them up. At the moment, we don’t have that disdain for a Pogba or a Fabregas that we should have. I think only Rooney, Besic and Williams do. However, by keeping Williams in the side and bringing on Besic, despite their inadequacies, hopefully Koeman realises this. I may be wrong and I was with Roberto Martinez (who gave me the best Everton season and song since '95) but I feel that, to get us any silverware, we are going to need a set of circumstances (Leicester winning the Premier League when other teams were in transition; United winning the Europa League playing no-one, etc) and to keep faith.
At the moment there are still flaws. It is patently obvious that our central defence can’t bring the ball out; there's no pace in the team; not enough cohesion. But I think he wants to play with pace – he bought Mane at Southampton, he has bought Calvert-Lewin, Bolasie and Lookman. He is concentrating on getting the base of the team solid and we desperately missed Schneiderlin against Chelsea. Cohesion comes with playing together for a while, and confidence – that doesn’t come overnight and a big injury list doesn’t help.
It is true to say that, when Antonio Conte or Mourhino come up against ‘superior’ or sometimes just play equal opposition away, they use three centre halves and two defensive centre midfielders. Like those two managers, I believe (with no evidence, admittedly) that, once he gets his team’s overall defending to how he wants it, we will see him be more attacking against ‘inferior’ teams.
What I’m saying here may be seen as excuses and I am obviously not happy with the current style of play but I like a lot of his buys and can see where the golden nugget is going. It seems madness not to give him a good go at it as realistically we haven’t exactly been Real Madrid for the last 22 years.
Reader Comments (74)
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1 Posted 28/08/2017 at 17:24:22
We appear to go out not to lose and hope we can sneak a goal and hang on. It worked to some extent at City but if we were to go behind then there's no sign we could come back, Chelsea.
No he may well not have the players he wants but at least he should and we should expect more than we are getting.
The buck stops at the manager and so far there are no excuses he can use to justify the shit we have endured so far.
2 Posted 28/08/2017 at 17:42:43
So that means he really couldn't care less about players, youth development coming through or long term future. Or the fans.
Lets face it we don't matter anyway, but he is making it clear that neither do the players. My way or the highway and he is clearly into public shaming / criticism of those he wants gone.
Great I hear many of you say, no nonsense, cut throat, winner.. except he isn't.. not yet. So its a personal desire to succeed and Project Everton, is the perfect vehicle. But it needs alot of money and support of the board, the players and the fans. He clearly has the boards support, to a degree, players hmm not sure tbh, fans divided but probably prepared to give him a go.
In truth he is on borrowed time on his own making, if he turns this team into a strong top 6 or even better a top 4 team then no one can complain. He delivered. He will then move on. Will we be the better for it?
3 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:13:38
No, he was a hard-nosed player and I have absolutely no doubt he's a hard-nosed manager. He's not playing a role. This is his real character.
4 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:14:21
I'm also happy to accept the fact that he doesnt regard managing us as the pinnacle of his career. If that's the case, he has to do well for us first. I suspect most players will have the same view, until we become as successful as we hope.
Not interested in youth? Last season he played more youngsters than anyone else. 'He was forced to', say some. Probably because of the under-achieving, complacent mess he inherited.
Now, 6 games into the season, I'm unhappy at the slow pace, the imbalance, the lack of a pattern of play. And if it carries on like this, I'll be calling for his head. But let's not kid ourselves that letting the likes of Barkley, Mirallas & Deufelou play their one good game in five was ever going to bring us any success.
I think the squad has improved, hopefully even more in the coming days. If he gets these players to gel, we'll all be happy. If he doesn't, the next guy will inherit a decent bunch of players to play with.
In my lifetime, when we've been successful, we've been ruthless, then we've taken our foot off the pedal and let everyrhing slip. I'm I'm happy with ruthless, but I want competence as well. We'll see if Koeman has it in the next few months. Koeman is Moshiri's man, so he won't be quick to wield the axe. But I have a feeling Moshiri won't be as benevolent as Kenwright. And I'm fine with that as well.
5 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:17:39
Post of the week. ðŸ‘
6 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:26:15
This is the type of horrible type actions we need! We need to be hated by other teams and if RK instils this it's a good from me!
7 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:27:57
8 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:31:42
9 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:35:42
I also wanted Les Reed over Walsh. Reed found some real gems at Southampton and is far more agile in the transfer market.
If Koeman fails at Goodison his career could go the way of Moyes.
10 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:54:05
My dog understands that RK and his team aren't producing the goods but that is ant fucking when we need to be looking at the big picture. That is difficult for some who have a bizarre need to stay down in the weeds. RK will be judged in due course and it will be by Moshiri because that is where the buck stops now.
11 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:12:48
12 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:45:24
These players who Koeman has told to "shape up or leave" . .wanna name them ?
Mirallas and Barkley are still here he has tried to secure both of their services. Deulofeu left because Barca decided to take up their option to buy.
Others who left were either crocks or were being regularly left out before Koeman even got here. Do you think they left because they were not good enough for the club to offer them new contracts . .or do you really believe Koeman stood at the door jerking his thumb and saying "go on, fucking do one"
And when you say the squad "has improved" . .in what way do you think they have improved ? Do you think we will score more goals ? create more chances ? play better football ? get more points ?
Not having a go, just curious. Personally I think Christine nails him. He is attempting to create a hard nosed ruthless persona . . but I think he is failing miserably
13 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:53:25
On the subject of Koeman 6 million a year to be served this embarrassing dross is a dereliction of duty.
I've supported this club for 41 years and for the majority of that time i've had the most vile, horrible, obnoxious and Nasty Redshite/Kopites giving me plenty of abuse, and to top it off was yesterday's results . It's sickening.
I live nearer Manchester than Liverpool and it's full of the 5 Times You'll never walk alone morons.
14 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:58:27
I agree, doesn't need to create the hard nosed say as I see persona.Thats what he is.
Some people do try to create that but fail miserably. If you try too hard it becomes obvious.
15 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:28:29
Paul Tran is absolutely correct. If you think Koeman is happy with what we're seeing think again.
He is constantly on the touchline urging the players forward and is of course an experienced striker or two light. (We lost Valencia and Lukaku).
If the players cant or wont listen to him then yes something will have to give but FFS give the man a chance.
16 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:29:58
That said he does try my patience. I am sick of seeing square pegs in round holes and some of his team selections are truly baffling and do not follow any logical train of thought. DCL as right wing-back. Mad. DCL plays well up front, then dropped. Rooney up front doesn't work. Sigurdsson seems to have been bought for the left wing? Klaassen, Rooney, Sandro, Sigurdsson, Davies, Lookman all share the same favoured position. Martina plays well at LB then dropped and never played there since. I could go on.
I hope he gets it right but his selections scream that he has no clue what his best team is and I still see glaring holes in a squad which has been expensively assembled, which is unacceptable this late in the window.
17 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:37:01
Even if he never quite manages such an achievement, a seventh place finish this season should be enough to earn him a couple of added seasons at Goodison.
Don't imagine Moshiri wont go for it, the Dutch Moyes was always their agreed choice !
18 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:42:33
I dread to think what you'd say about him if you weren't a fan!
19 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:45:19
I realise that I can't see the big picture but it'd be nice to see the little picture working on the pitch on match days.
20 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:56:47
I would argue that Pickford, Keane, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Gueye are improvements. I like what I saw of Klaassen in the Eredivisie; he'll be good when he gets into the pace of the game (took Eriksen a year). I wouldn't have brought Rooney back, so I'll give him a bit for that, even if it's just to prove me wrong!
The 'hard man' thing for me is a bit exaggerated. When he got the job, I saw an interview with Guillit, where he described him as fun to work with, the kind of guy who'd put his arm round a player - and be tough when needed. I find him a blunt and fairly inarticulate man in his own language, so he's unlikely to be much different in ours. Most Dutch people I know who have lived/worked in the UK (I'm married to one) tell me that Brits initially think they're blunt/rude. He played the hard man over Barkley & Niasse and made a fool of himself. Publically at least, he's been more subtle with Mirallas, and has taken to telling the press how pleased/proud he is of players' workrate, etc. Klopp has publically hung players out to dry and gets away with it because he's articulate and cracks jokes. I've been told he's one tough and harsh guy behind the scenes.
I'll nail my colours on this one, you and Christine are entitled to say Koeman's trying to create a hard man image, I'd argue that he's watched the likes of Barkley, Mirallas and Deufelou and sussed them out. Good, talented players who lack the application and resilience to make the most of what they have. We'll have to disagree on this, fine by me.
So I think he's generally brought in better players, but I've got two issues with Koeman:
First one is that like too many modern coaches, he forgets the simplicity of football and looks at every game thinking how he's going to stop the opposition, instead of picking his team to win regardless. This may change when 'his' players bed in and gel.
Second one is that like his predecessor, I don't think he's getting his ideas across to the players. They look confused, he looks confused. He talks one game, they play another. The world is full of talented people who can't explain things. That's the thing that will do for him, I think.
21 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:58:10
22 Posted 28/08/2017 at 21:04:11
Koeman has shown us nothing new. Lukaku was an Everton player when Koeman arrived and it was Lukaku who kept us in the Premier League last season. We have since let Man Utd tickle our belly and take our prize asset away for peanuts... WHY??
The signings Koeman has made so far have been absolute shite apart from Pickford and, even then, we were the only club in for him. Paceless no-marks throughout the squad and players like Baines and Jagielka 3 years past their sell-by dates but still playing? Its a joke.
In all honesty, were very very lucky to have more than a point so far this season. It could so easily have been zero point's. Considering all the money floating about the club why are we still buying second rate players?? .Sandro, Klaassen, Keane, Williams etc.?
I'm sorry but Koeman is like Van Gall, Advocat, De Boer... Washed-up old has-been Dutch flops. We need an energetic, dynamic winner who wants the team to show some balls and go out to win games. None of this "draining the life out of us" Moyes shite. God help us when we play Lyon and the others in the Europa League. More embarrassing times ahead...
Still no movement at Bramley-Moore Dock either!! What's the story there? Do we own that plot of land or not? If so, start fucking digging and cheer us all up. More smoke and mirrors, I fear!!
23 Posted 28/08/2017 at 21:16:34
I agree with others that he needs more time with this ''work in progress''
Okay, he is not yet a Mourinho, Conte or Guardiola but those guys had billions to work with.
Koeman has only just started to have some financing and what he has gotten so far isn't too shabby.
However we all agree the striking side needs improvement in order to challenge the top four so let's hope it happens soon.
24 Posted 28/08/2017 at 21:28:23
Koeman is starting to worry me because he's playing three centre halfs, but only one can pass the ball, and if this is the formation that he wanted to play, then he should have been signing players who would thrive, rather than keeping players who would struggle with this style?
We had an extra man against City, but the only thing that looked good was the solidity of the back five during this game. He went to a back four, and suddenly City found space in behind, and this felt more like a Martinez change to me.
He Had to do something I know, but not with how we were defending surely? If we don't sign a decent forward this week, then I think it's going to be one long, dull season. But still ile give it time.
25 Posted 28/08/2017 at 21:31:55
26 Posted 28/08/2017 at 22:09:39
It would sit much easier with me if the charge could not still be levelled at almost every single player in a squad that has been firmly under his leadership for over a year now.
Has his managerial methodology helped manouvre any first-team player toward more consistent performances than they were putting in prior to his arrival? Have any of the newer players brought in under Koeman demonstrated they can transcend the sometimes good/sometimes toss tendency of those who proceeded them?
In my eyes, it's something of a convenient cop out for a manager to continually pin falling short in individual games on the frailties of his squad, especially having spent the sort of sums Koeman has and taking into account the size of the salary he's being paid by the club.
When does Ron get to turning his steely 'no nonsense' gaze of judgement round to his own jowelly reflection?
His tactics and team selections have been found wanting in numerous games, he regularly plays people out of position, is seemingly intent on persisting with a couple of favoured formations that have never seemed a comfortable fit for the personnel currently at his disposal, all while continually overstuffing his starting line-up with defensive players, stripping it of any real width, pace or direct running, before then bemoaning the bluntness of his offence as though none of his own choices factor into the lack of threat going forward.
Someone (sorry, can't remember who) said on these pages a while back that they thought one of the reasons that not every Evertonian had taken to Koeman thus far was because he appears totally "driven" to succeed. If that's the case then he either keeps it well fucking hidden or he's motoring along in one of those invisible planes Wonder Woman pops to Waitrose in. The only occasions he appeared "driven" last season was when he was trying desperately to come out on top in verbal ding-dong's with Klopp and O'Neil. He's appeared to me to have done not much more than coast along since settling comfortably into his seat.
First order of business for any manager taking over from Martinez was to get back to basics. Tighten up at the back and cut down on the number of soft goals gifted to the opposition through unnecessary fannying about. Fair enough, Koeman sorted that out early on (a number of managers not costing £6m a year could surely have achieved the same) but what exactly has he sought to add to that foundation since?
He paid lip service to boosting the fitness levels of his players but has there really been any noticeable improvement in that regard since Roberto Martinez made way? He extolled the virtues of "pressing" as some sort of propulsion system toward improved performances, yet his team have regularly fail to pull it off. He spoke of adding more "productivity", yet again there's been little evidence of such a missing ingredient materialising on the field of play so far (although, to be fair, it's still early doors this season and some of the new signings obviously do need time to settle). If he is one year into implementing some managerial master plan to move us on to another level, then I for one am failing dismally to discern what the fuck it is.
Overall, whilst I don't think we ever need fear a dramatic plunge down the table under his charge, I'm extremely doubtful Koeman brings enough to the table to ever take us beyond the "best of the rest' territory we took comfortable root in last season.
27 Posted 28/08/2017 at 22:15:56
I hope he knows what he's doing and it gels in a couple of months.
28 Posted 28/08/2017 at 23:05:34
I wouldn't be heartbroken if he left tomorrow, but he does, I suppose have to be given a fair crack of the whip.
Just how long is the key question, how long before the 200M for 7th millstone drags down the Dutch Moyes.
29 Posted 28/08/2017 at 23:21:13
Most people you meet come with all manner of complexities. But in football it's always black and white. They pick what they want to be and run with it. Does anyone believe Koeman sits the family down and offers his weekly blunt assessment of their performance (there's a sketch in that)?
That's why I've stopped caring about that side of things. Media portrayals aren't worth a thing. Judge them on the pitch.
30 Posted 28/08/2017 at 23:26:28
31 Posted 28/08/2017 at 23:28:46
33 Posted 29/08/2017 at 00:57:56
There will always be excuses from the "patience" brigade. Any amount of shite can be excused on the basis that it will eventually turn into gold. I prefer the evidence in front of my eyes: we're slow, witless, unthreatening, frightened and unfit.
We have bugger all time to bolster ourselves and for club, manager and team to acquire some courage. The idea that we should be waiting, arbitrarily, until Christmas or until the end of the season to see just how bad we are is absurd.
I repeat my call : wake up Everton, wake up.
34 Posted 29/08/2017 at 03:45:35
We are still shopping at Tesco never mind M&S while others including the RS, United If we had real ambition and could walk the walk instead of just talk then we should be looking at this standard of player not some gamgster that Chelsea want to see the back of or a player who cant even get a game for Benefica. If the board want top 4 let them show it in the market rather than buying no marks or has beens.
I have also said all summer pay whatever it takes to get Vardy who for me is the only viable replacement for Lukaku. Why havent we had a cozy chat with Southampton over VVD.
If we had real ambition and could walk the walk instead of just talk then we should be looking at this standard of player not some gamgster that Chelsea want to see the back of or a player who cant even get a game for Benefica.
If the board want top 4 let them show it in the market rather than buying no marks or has beens.
35 Posted 29/08/2017 at 08:34:07
It's a long season and we are in the cups; we can press both Spurs and Arsenal, if Liverpool have a bad run, why not a run to the top four?
Doom mongers already want Koeman out but our playing personnel is much improved. Bit of dead wood to prune away; Man City and Chelsea just didn't do it over night. Klopp has it all to do; we could still be the dark horses keeping up with the leaders.
36 Posted 29/08/2017 at 09:34:12
Good point, he is a miserable, smarmy get but he's quite funny.
Just pretend you support Man Utd I do that all the time here in Liverpool. It really gets to them but I just say 'I'm a glory hunter, a bit like you were all those years ago when you chose to support.'
You really can't lose an argument then. They will call you 'bitter' but just carry it on saying 'Bitter, bitter, Christ you lot never stop singing about Munich, just coz we've got 20 titles, get over it. Blah blah.'
37 Posted 29/08/2017 at 12:29:40
38 Posted 29/08/2017 at 12:32:11
39 Posted 29/08/2017 at 12:56:16
Said at the time and I reckon it's still the case, there'll be no movement on Bramley Moore until the Commonwealth Games city's been announced.
40 Posted 29/08/2017 at 13:05:09
So you would have fired Kendal in the early eighties after his first wretched 2 seasons. United should have fired Ferguson in similar circumstances?
Do you believe good teams can be formed immediately by just buying players or changing the manager.
What are you doing to improve the situation that the patience brigade aren't doing? We know that Everton are playing badly that is just a statement of the obvious. What answers do you have?
41 Posted 29/08/2017 at 13:22:35
Changing the manager rarely produces results and on the face of it we've already had 2 disastrous changes.
42 Posted 29/08/2017 at 13:39:48
Spot on mate. We are so boring and tedious that you hope nobody outside of Everton supporters are watching us because it's embarrassing.
I have watched quite a few games of this season and the only team I have seen play worse football than us was Newcastle and there's certainly no stars in that team.
I haven't got the answers but I do expect better from our manager who gets paid millions and has a good squad of players.
43 Posted 29/08/2017 at 16:57:02
2 disastrous changes.
So you think Koeman is also a disastrous appointment?
44 Posted 29/08/2017 at 17:30:38
I would not routinely play with a defensive mentality, I would tell the players always to seek a forward momentum rather then to play excruciatingly dull sideways and backwards passing odds.
Above all, if I were Ronald, I would reflect upon the fact that my approach (insofar as a coherent one can be discerned) has produced very few away victories in 12 months and a generally drab style of play and I would ask myself why that was and what I could do to change it.
I sincerely hope that he buys players before the window closes who will help to create a much more entertaining and attacking team and that he adopts a wholly new philosophy to the same end.
It is a lie that building a new side means boring the pants off everyone while we all wait for some mysterious alchemy to take place.
45 Posted 29/08/2017 at 17:46:09
46 Posted 29/08/2017 at 18:05:40
I, like a lot of people where full of hope, ambition and excitement at the start of the campaign.
For me it's diminishing fast, beaten once, yes, but the style of play has been mundane to say the least.
I hate it when I see that lot across the park tear teams apart with what I consider a lesser squad.
47 Posted 29/08/2017 at 18:14:50
One thing that does concern me is that a good manager will have even ordinary players performing well as a unit- so far I haven't seen much evidence of that but I am optimistic. A striker, a fast winger, and a classy left-sided defender this week please.
48 Posted 29/08/2017 at 18:31:56
Also remember that one reason Koeman is not going for the jugular and being more conservative is that he is concerned about his record as a manager. We are but one project in his pathway to the land of gold and his beloved Barca.
He may well have seen what Mourinho did at Man Utd, boring the pants off everyone and picking up the League Cup and the Europa League. If Ron can emulate such a feat, I think even Darren will forgive him!
However, he is just like our players... here for a while. I know we looked jaded on Sunday, but our lack of ambition at Man City was pathetic. We got a point (undeserved) against their 10 men. Bournemouth really gave it a good go against 11 and were undone at the death, but I would rather we had a little less respect for these teams, and had a right go at them.
I don't want to go to Anfield set up to survive, only to still be torn apart in a 10-minute frenzy of inventive attacking football that we can only dream about. I want us to go there and try everything to beat them in the 90 minutes. It doesn't mean silly play, but it does mean that we can go 4-4-2 after 30 mins or 45 mins, not after 80 mins.
49 Posted 29/08/2017 at 19:29:55
He was sacked because he failed. .
For over a year people have been defending and shouting down criticism of the pug ugly football we play. Time and again they have excused and apologised for abject performances. "Give him time" . . "Look what he inherited" . . "He's an improvement on the last manager" . . "He was great player and knows more than you" . ."we've scored lots of goals" . ."It the players, they are not up to it" . ."Wait until he has 2-3 transfers under his belt" . . "Have some patience"
Finally people are starting to admit it "well of course we can see the football is poor" . .but its been poor for a year. Difference now is its no longer a contestable issue. Those who claimed they were entertained during the first stages of the European qualifiers look ridiculous.
He's had fifty games. The deadwood, people claimed he inherited are no longer playing. He's spent a fortune. The goals they claimed were scored as a result of tactics have gone to Man United. Decent players can still penetrate his expensively assembled defence like piss through snow we could very easily conceded ten if City and Chelsea converted the chances they carved out.
All the excuses have gone. they have been laid bare . .the only defence left is cries of "give him time" . .what for ? to change his philosophy ? Does he have one ?
There are not two camps as somebody above stupidly claims. There never is. There are lots of different factions, with differing opinion about everything, but people from all sides of the house are becoming alarmed. Despite the war chest, despite the deadwood being shipped out and despite all the players who have been utilised throughout his leadership, we are still playing this awful excuse for football
50 Posted 29/08/2017 at 21:21:07
51 Posted 29/08/2017 at 21:58:44
Well I thought about it and this is what I come up with:
We are conceding less goals
We are winning more games at Goodison
We moved a few places up the table
We qualified for the Europa League
That is not a defence of Koeman on my part - just my assessment of what has improved since he took over.
If I am honest, I suspect I am still traumatised from the panic of Martinez' last two seasons after the joy of his first season. I thought he was going to do the unthinkable - get us relegated.
The root cause of that panic was our ability to loose games from winning positions due to our inability to defend.
Would it be fair to say that Koeman has at least improved us in that area? I think so and that is why I have been willing to wait and see what happens over the next couple of months.
As things stand Koeman has spent the money - I think Moshiri will give him till Christmas and if things are looking bleak he will pay him out and get someone else in.
In the meantime I think as fans our only course of action is to get behind the team.
The Spurs game will give us a further insight as to were we stand.
A word of caution on that one - the last time I was at Goodison we got hammered by Arsenal's invincibles 1-4.
Unfortunately, provided I get a ticket, I will be in attendance a week on Saturday.
You have been warned.
52 Posted 29/08/2017 at 22:06:42
Koeman isn't going to get it right, he's got it completely wrong with his signings and tactics.
People keep saying we've made good signings â€” we haven't... full stop!
53 Posted 29/08/2017 at 22:24:11
I asked you a question which was would you have sacked Kendal and Ferguson (as a United fan) for periods similar to but much longer than what we are undergoing at the moment which was just ahead of amazingly successful periods for both clubs. Answer please.
You are wasting your time coming on here and laying your negativity on us. The club will do what the vast majority of fans will expect them to do and try to turn things round and this will not involve sacking Koeman.
I personally wouldn't expect the worst opposition fan to take your position on what is happening at the club and I doubt I could find one to agree with you. I happen to agree with a lot of what you say but never your poisonous negativity. Get out of the weeds and look at the big picture.
54 Posted 29/08/2017 at 22:24:26
Fans can scweam and shout til they feel sick.
Jump up and down and have as many tantrums as you please.
He ain't going anywhere.
55 Posted 29/08/2017 at 23:16:07
He has done well in giving us a solid spine that a good team can be built around.
Pickford, Keane, Gueye, Schneiderlin, Klaassen (???) and it appears Calvert-Lewin. Credit to him for that. But around these players, the wide men, the creative sparks and the speed that break teams open and make the 'pressing-game' work have all evaporated.
Barkley going, Deulofeu gone, Mirallas seemingly going and in demise anyway.
Baines in decline and Coleman injured, Bolasie injured and really not good enough anyway.
Maybe it is too much for 3 windows, and Koeman has taken the pragmatic route of sorting the spine (hence the current focus on a proven 'target man'), meaning a pretty boring yet safe style of play this season, to focus on the 'flair players' in future markets. If so, then he should say so.
If not, then either we have truly failed in the transfer market, or Koeman has no interest in implementing the style of play he seems to say he wants.
56 Posted 30/08/2017 at 06:13:53
You sound more confused every time you post. You have never asked me that question before, but I'm happy to bat it out of the park.
You see, it's an old and tired question which was often wheeled out by Martinez apologist and the hard of thinking who thought that by trawling through history and finding two examples of managers who struggled for results, they are somehow justifying the support of the inadequacy of the clueless one.
Despite the both of these manager being under the sort of pressure Koeman will never experience. These guys were not under pressure for the ugliness of their football. They were both at clubs who expected to be challenging for honours... see the difference??? Mancs had forgotten what it was like to be champions and were becoming increasingly desperate.
Both managers had one thing in common. They were struggling for results when their biggest rivals (RS) were hoovering up just about every trophy that could be won, but (and here's the difference) They both showed signs that they were on the right track. They both had an ambition in their play which gave hope that they just may turn things around. They had both purchased top, and I mean top class players...
Koeman isn't doing any of that. The more he spends the more miserable our play becomes and he is under no pressure whatsoever!
People talk about leaflets circulated by fans who were sick to death of listening to gloating RS fans and seeing us continually operating on a relative shoe string. but they forget the other stuff.
During Howard's darkest hours, I can quite clearly remember 10,000 Evertonians drowning out the whole of OT in an FA cup game. Despite the pressure. We swaggered into OT and played them of the fucking park. Despite the heartbreak of losing to a rare United attack about 7 minutes into "injury time" Kendall still had the balls to go out and attack in the following games.
Please put that stupid question to bed. There are no comparisons to be drawn between the circumstances of two great courageous managers and Ronald Koeman.
You ask me and I have seen you ask others "What are you doing about it?" I have already answered that, but I'll add some more to my answer. After fifty years of travelling around the country to watch my team. I have stopped going. I can no longer justify not taking my Mrs out on Saturdays... not to watch tactics which often result in no shots on target.
But let me turn the question around on you. Besides regularly coming on here to do the verbal hokey cokey what do YOU do to support you the guy you want to defend? As the tide turns and more and more people become disgruntled with Zombie football... what (besides happy clapping on here) do you do?
You appear almost every day now challenging other fans who you see as "negative" and telling us that you, "the positive" and the "majority", are somehow superior, because you remain steadfast in your support for uninspiring dross. Sorry. it doesn't work like that.
You may not have realised this, but when you openly claimed you wanted us to lose a semi final and gloated to broken-hearted Evertonians when we did, you were forever forfeiting your right to ever question the motives of another blue.
As for Koeman staying ? Yeah of course he is. These rumblings of discontent wont just remain rumblings. If Koeman does not change his approach they screams of dissatisfaction will deafen Moshiri and Mr Anti-Football will become the clubs latest waste of time, money and effort.
57 Posted 30/08/2017 at 06:45:44
A shame you have decided to stop going. Despite our obvious differences of opinion, I looked forward to your assessment of how we played. That weekly assessment will have to go on hold until you decide to go back. And you will be back.
You have probably passed your ticket to family or friends; if you haven't, you won't have any problem getting shut of it. There is a 10,000 waiting list to watch this anti-football.
All the best anyway.
58 Posted 30/08/2017 at 08:01:42
I hope he gets the players in, but if he doesn't I'm not sure how it's going to go. Square pegs in round holes, and it won't be long before the players will become as exasperated with the manager, as he seems to be with them sometimes.
Not an easy group in Europe, the squad still needs filling up, although I don't think we will get as tough a run of fixtures as last week produced, and hopefully this international break, might enable a few of our players, to find their second wind.
59 Posted 30/08/2017 at 09:12:45
My point is, they won't get shut until next summer at the earliest.
60 Posted 30/08/2017 at 09:21:01
As to Koeman, well I get where you're coming from. I have gone from being very optimistic before the season started to being concerned now due to how we have set up against City and Chelsea. We were pretty awful in both games, ok first half against City we contained very well and caught them out with a goal but from then it was backs to the wall. Did pretty much the same thing in Split, just defended, thought first half was pretty dire really and Chelsea, well just another shocker down there. I thought we'd turned the corner as regards going to these places just looking not to get beat. It's pretty obvious you can't use ridiculous Martinez tactics but you have to show intent to win and we never did at any of the 3 places we went to last week.
I think he has bought reasonably well. Are they better than we had last season? In my opinion much better. We need to use them much better. Speed up play and stop looking to just contain. I am prepared to give him more time due to new players still bedding in. The end of the season will tell us whether we have progressed or not. It's Koemans team now and there should be no excuses come the end of the season.
61 Posted 30/08/2017 at 09:21:03
I'm giving him time, I've got to, because I can't believe a man who was brought up learning to play football in Holland, during the late seventies, hasn't got a lot more craft up his sleeve?
Maybe he was to clever for his own good as a player, and the only time he was in trouble, was when he played against a big robust target man, who played it off for the little fella to burst past him? Alls I want to see is a well thought out plan John!
62 Posted 30/08/2017 at 10:22:29
I am still backing him to get it right.
You can't go from the team he inherited to top four in one season.
I also agree on the pattern, without the players coming in its difficult to see an effective one good enough to see us breaking the top 6.
63 Posted 30/08/2017 at 10:28:01
64 Posted 30/08/2017 at 10:38:04
I stopped going during Moyes last season, but only to Goodison though. I kept going to the away games because I was having a laugh, but I wouldn't dare travel to watch Everton, at the minute though, which is what I hope Darren meant?
Football is crazy, and it can turn around very quick, but only if everyone in the team is given a job, that they are capable of doing though. I bet you even scientists love simplicity the most?
65 Posted 30/08/2017 at 11:28:34
Sorry but there were other questions that I didn't see answers to :-). Do you advocate the sacking of Koeman and, if so, would you have recommended the sacking of Kendall and Ferguson after similar shaky starts given the success they eventually achieved?
Stopping watching is the only thing you could have done and the correct action but paradoxically it's pointless too as there is massive excess demand to watch the games. You are very much in a minority, I'm afraid, and given how badly it affects you, it's probably better that you take up another hobby. Do you not feel though that not being a stakeholder now reduces your rights to be so critical?
What do I do to support Koeman? Nothing, I rate him as totally incompetent as a manager but it's far too early yet to make a good judgement. I trust that the club will turn things around so I don't have to do anything. When the time comes, the majority will have their say.
Constructive criticism is great but surely not this grinding negativity and I think it's correct for alternative views to be made. At the moment, I see only positive things happening at the club with the only exception being current form but form is temporary and we ideally have the class of player to improve. Again the only option is to give time for this to happen.
66 Posted 30/08/2017 at 11:38:30
67 Posted 30/08/2017 at 11:47:21
68 Posted 30/08/2017 at 13:22:51
None of us know what happens behind the scenes but surely both him and Bill should call him in and tell him to get it sorted and at least try and entertain us and improve the style or doesn't Koeman ever have to justify the utter dross to anyone? He must have to answer to someone surely.
69 Posted 30/08/2017 at 13:51:04
70 Posted 30/08/2017 at 15:00:23
71 Posted 30/08/2017 at 18:27:37
We all need to get real: we sold our only real top scorer... Lukaku was right in what he said in January. Koeman and the club had the chance to show ambition last season by bringing in top players.
Lukaku found out and left; Barkley is next, and what the heck do we have left after selling the only real goal threats in this club????
We have been Jedi mind-tricked with the new stadium talk, and now it has all come crashing down to earth.
Heads will spin, fans have had enough of patience â€“ I certainly have.
Our only true hope is youngsters and one of our best in pre-season is out on loan for Nottm Forest, along with a newly bought striker in Belgium, Onyekuru.
Rebuilding demands youth players, but we just keep loaning them out, and getting rid of our only goal scorers from last season.
Oh what a fanstastic guy Koeman is... he is the 3-year plan man!
The proof is in the pudding â€“ we barely got throgh to the Europa League; now that is our only hope. it is sad, this club deserves so much better... it breaks my heart.
72 Posted 30/08/2017 at 19:12:35
Na it doesn't matter.
73 Posted 31/08/2017 at 15:17:46
But of course you can't control the 'pull', what's 'in your blood'. I've even told myself I'm not interested anymore, but it doesn't work. It's just not a choice. In that sense it can a bit of a curse, because it's difficult to avoid a disappointed weekend.
What frustrates me about Koeman is that very good football has appeared in spurts. This happened last season. I recall a home game where we put a 25-pass move together that was sublime attacking football. And I think, why don't we do that more? We CAN do it, so why not more often? That's the mystery for me. I believe Koeman can do it, maybe because he's from the Dutch school of great football, but it's not very apparent at the moment. So I have to be patient, because there are specific reasons to anticipate much better, even great, football. But it's hard to muster that patience.
74 Posted 02/09/2017 at 10:06:35
Who is this mythical team in premier league playing all this fantastic football? Frankly, the league is garbage at the moment and full of players like Lukaku, Pogba, van dyke and Barkley who are just pamper over paid average players in an average league.
Best game this year Arsenal vs Leicester says something about the league. RK is as good as any in the league.
75 Posted 05/09/2017 at 09:16:45
Barkley and Niasse are included in our 25 but if Koeman has no intention of playing them, that reduces us to a 23 man squad, 22 if he's decided to freeze Mirallas out too. Oh yes, he can bring in youth players to supplement the squad but are they going to be the answer against the big boys and in Europe? We must be the worst prepared club in the Europa League, and have one of the weakest overall squads in the Premier League.
I can't help thinking that players like Sigurdsson, Sandro and Klaassen were lured here by promises we were intent on signing the players we needed to mount a serious challenge for silverware, including a new target man in place of Lukaku. Now, I wonder if any of them feel a bit cheated by our failure to deliver on those promises? Just a thought.
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