The 3 “D' - Deluded — Dinosaur — Destructive

To accept Allardyce is to acknowledge that we have joined the ranks of those clubs whose ambition extends no further than clinging on to Premier League status and the money this entails.

Holgate was proving he was a centre back.

Davies was providing the energy to compliment Gueye's tenacity and Rooney's guile.

Kenny was a carbon copy of Coleman, defending and attacking in equal measure.

Calvert-Lewin was thriving with Rooney making late runs and providing options.

Lookman excelled in Europe (where Schneiderlin was one of the worst performers).

We were solid, creating chances and passionate.

Now, a few games on, Holgate and Davies are benched. Kenny is just waiting to get replaced by Coleman, Calvert-Lewin is foraging alone up front, Lookman might as well be Lookout. The defence is broken up and sideways Schneiderlin is back.

Who will come in after him? I haven't a clue (my preference would be for Ancellotti and Clement) but until our custodians decide on what type of club we want to be then I think we will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis and fall even further behind the top 6.

Moshiri, if he's serious, needs to get rid of Kewright, Woods, Elstone, Walsh and all the other brain-dead dimbos we've got at the club. Until those zombies leave, we'll never progress as a professional outfit.

How do we show we're "accepting" it? How do we show we're not?

If not accepting it means you stop going the game, stop renewing your season ticket, stop buying merchandise, does that make you a fair-weather supporter?

I wonder if supporters of teams who constantly finish in the bottom quarter of the league and yet turn up every other week (or more) are "accepting" their lot? I find it a strange concept!

Allardyce damages the club with the horrific negative style of football. The skill level drops significantly and you won't attract skillful players to join while we play as we did against Liverpool and Chelsea, and going into a match with Bournemouth starting with three defensive midfielders.

He plays for draws while hoping there is a mistake that allows a cheap goal. It's a terrible way to go about the game. All he has us do is worry about what the opposition is going to do to us instead of making them worry about us.

We have attacking players but he won't even put them on the bench. Mirallas, Vlasic, Lookman, Klaassen, Sandro all removed entirely from the team. Some will respond to that with a simplistic “Klaassen is shite”. To that I'd ask what is Schneiderlin that has Allardyce selecting him every match? Klaassen was the Ajax captain, scored goals, has worked hard in the few matches he's been allowed to play. Sandro runs his ass off when given a rare opportunity. I only mention the running because I hear so many praise that aspect of certain player's game as if we are a track and field outfit and not a football club.

Lennon? I hear people say he's there for defensive support. How does it make any sense to have one of only three attacking players in the lineup be primarily for defensive support? It's lunacy, but it's been eaten up by a surprisingly large number of people on this forum.

He won't change. In fact, I'd say if anything what we're seeing is him continue to put his stamp on the team. As he's been here we've gone more and more defensive against worsening opposition. I shudder to think of him being here next season.

To think he was once a proud prince around these parts. Praised, admired and envied in equal measure. Now he was nothing but a barely relevant relic ripe for belittlement. A miserable, scruffy, meff who thought himself well off if he managed to make it all the way home without getting sparked out by some happy slapper. Yet, it wasn't a cocky young twat with a YouTube channel that was causing him to tremble so this cold Christmas night. Rather, it was the still fresh words of Marley reverberating in his fevered mind.

Marley, who had been his sole visitor this festive period.

Marley, the strangely gobby, soccer loving, ghost of the dog out of the shit movie 'Marley & Me'.

Entwined in burdensome chains and money boxes, the phantom Labrador luvvie had regaled 'Everton' with the harrowing tale of how he hit upon hard times once his acting roles began to dry up, as a new breed of exotic, expensively groomed, 'designer' dogs began dominating the canine casting scene. The inexorable ascent of the four-legged playthings of the rich and famous led directly to the loyal Labradors decline in popularity, along with rapidly dwindling appearances in run-of-the-mill popcorn fare. Soon, a formerly golden 'grand old dog' was left sniffing it's own arse in the gutter, searching forlornly for the faintest scent of it's former glory.

You can predict how things proceeded from there on out. Mediocrity. Resentment. Depression. Millions squandered. Drugs, hookers and a short-lived marriage to Katie Price. Then, the poor blonde bastard ate a discarded Pukka Pie and puked itself to death.

"Heed my words, Everton-Eezer Screwed, for a similar fate awaits you if you fanny about and allow yourself to fade much further into the shadows", the dread dog had barked. "Soon, you will be visited by three spirits who will beseech thee to sort thou bloody self out. Best listen well to what they say, lad."

Marley had told him that the first of these apparitions was due to arrive dead on One AM this very night and, yet, it was already half-past the hour and Screwed had not seen or heard anything out of the ordinary. Perhaps the horrible hound had merely been pulling his leg from his purgatorial prison, or maybe he was a figment of his own imagination, as illusory and fanciful as the Fortress Sports Fund.

Suddenly, a shimmering rotund shape began to rise from the floor as the temperature in the room dropped rapidly, from decidedly chilly to a deadly biting frost commensurate to Ronald Koeman's bare charisma made fucking corporeal.

"I am the Spirit Of Christmas Past..", enounced the ectoplasmic blob, "...and I am not sorry in the slightest that I am so late. You should consider yourself lucky that I lowered myself to manifest even momentarily in this losers mausoleum. Besides, I had more pressing business to attend to first", the Ghost tutted as he tossed his golf bag to the ground.

Without a word of warning, reality seemed to shift around Screwed, his surroundings becoming freakishly distorted, like he was looking at a reflection in a funhouse mirror, or sporting a VR headset that simulated the wearer waking up with Andy Van der Meyde vision. Through the undulating trippy visuals a tale 'Everton' knew all too well proceeded to unfurl.

Barely eighteen months ago he was a shrivelled-balled 'big shot' from a bygone era, said to be finally starting back on the road toward former glories, greatly reinvigorated as he was by new found riches. Yet, beyond repeatedly stating his ambition through some weird bloke on the box, he didn't bother coming up with anything remotely resembling a plan in order to bring about his promised Phoenix like rebirth.

A large chunk of his fortune was improvidently pissed away on frivolous piles of crap. His ham-fisted opulence not helped by opportunistic chancers hastily altering the price tag when they heard arl Screwed coming.

His crack team of hand-picked, hot-shot, advisors were soon revealed to be little more than a squad of absolute hoopleheads, content to sit back and half-arse it while stuffing their pockets to the brim with his coin. When shit hit the fan they simply feigned a look of complete surprise, before craning their neck back slightly and sneakily nodding toward the fella sat next to them as if to silently suggest "it's fucking his fault".

Screwed became known amongst his competitors as a still neutered, soft-touch, whom they could easily shove out the way, before wading through his shit and wandering off with a big sack of goodies, completely scott free. He became a prolific gift giver, not by personal choice, but by virtue of being calamitously gash.

"Wow, revelatory that, Ron", rasped the unimpressed 'Everton'. "A quick run through of recent memories is hardly going to have me quaking in my boots, is it? For what you must be raking in I thought you might have at least been able to rouse yourself beyond basic conjuring and chuck a bit of poltergeist activity into the mix. What a waste of my time".

With a shrug of his shoulders and a feigned look of surprise, the Ghost Of Christmas Past craned his neck back, but with no other wraith about who could conveniently take a share of the blame he simply made himself look a right tit by reflexively nodding toward a blank wall. "There is another bloke there, honest", the lame spook lied. "He..err...just isn't visible to the human eye". The Ghost of Christmas Past kept up his piss weak masquerade by making his way toward the wall, nodding his head and mumbling as though in mid- conversation with some other entity, before making his cowardly escape by evaporating into thin air.

No sooner had one transparent tubby terror departed, a second turned up. This one was larger than his predecessor and seemed considerably jollier, as though pleased as punch to have been called forth from his soulless slumber. He sported a long, inky black, robe that seemed to possess a life of it's own, omitting a screeching sound from the sleeves and recoiling rapidly whenever it's hem happened to come into contact with the floor. Whenever the self conscious garb fluttered up into the air, Screwed found he could not prevent his gaze from being drawn to the shoes his new spooky buddy wore on his feet. Bright red and polished to within an inch of their life, the strange legend 'Hoof made in Hell' stitched into the heel.

Spreading his robe open wide, the Ghost Of Christmas Present pulled 'Everton' close, and whispered in his ear, "Come in and know me better, man".

He showed 'Everton' visions of how he had swiftly become perceived as a stingy bastard amongst his peers. A "tight git" who gave nothing away if he could help it. A dour spoiler who denied paupers, those with money to chuck about with abandon, and even his closest neighbours, the chance to pick up any pleasing Xmas presents, no matter how hard they pissed and moaned or hammered at his door. "Fuck 'em" was now his festive mantra and, from that point forth, he would fight tooth and nail to make sure nobody was ever gifted anything for free again. The words "We've been Screwed" sweet music enough to a misers ear to allow him to enjoy his Christmas scran with an eerie smirk of contentment.

"I'll settle for that!", exclaimed 'Everton', "Especially after the year I've had. 'Annus Horribilis'? You want to try walking a mile in my Dutch clogs you doddery, crown wearing, arl crone".

With a shrug of his shoulders and a subtle adjustment of his ear piece, the Ghost Of Christmas Present prepared to make his exit. First, he stooped to pick up his spectral sack, stuffed to overflowing with wads of netherworldly notes, a Scotch egg and shitloads of Wrigley's Spearmint Gum. Secondly, he pointed to his scabbard and it was only then that Screwed noticed it contained no sword. "Soz. Probably should have mentioned that before, but I'll get it sorted soon, I swear".

With those last words of reassurance ringing in his ears, 'Everton' watched the shimmering form of his new spiritual guardian gradually fade from existence, before settling down to sleep, content that the lack of a sharp offensive weapon would not prove an insurmountable stumbling block going forward.

No sooner did the newly at peace 'Everton' find himself nodding then a fantastical nightmare began. Stood before him was a tall, shadowy, skeletal, figure that looked to be comprised entirely of dust encrusted wood, it's wrangly bones seemingly whittled out of a shamefully discarded trophy cabinet. Grabbing Screwed by the hand, the Ghost propelled the pair forward through time, before plonking them both down on a small mountain made of scrunched up match day tickets. "Welcome to the future", cackled the kindling Casper.

Screwed saw before him a graveyard and a gathering of two funeral parties seperated by a vast chasm. The first group seemed strangely boisterous for a squad assembled to bid farewell to a fallen friend or acquaintance. Indeed, some were already arseholed and were actually taking a slash on the headstone. Despite a continual deluge of urine splattering the stone slab from all conceivable angles, the name of the deceased could still be clearly discerned. It was the passing of the threat of 'Relegation' that had prompted plentiful revelry and the raining of piss.

Across the way, a more traditional manner of mourning appeared to be taking place, though a tad too melodramatic for Screwed's buttoned up taste. People were wailing, screaming such things as "Why? Why?", "We'll never see the likes again" etc and beating the ground with their fists, before turning their back and traipsing away, unable to watch any further. Inscribed on the tombstone were the words 'Attacking Football' and it seemed the premature snuffing out of it's light had led directly to such over the top anguish and dismay.

'Everton' knew not what to make of it all, other than he was relieved he himself wasn't rotting in the ground as he had half expected. As though reading his thoughts, the Ghost Of Christmas Future beckoned with his bony figure for Screwed to direct his gaze far beyond the grave gashers and lugubrious lamenters.

Lurching forward in the distance, a tattily dressed, parched dry, figure theatrically put his hands to his throat and begged loudly for "A shot. I'd kill for just one lousy shot, you bastards". Screwed knew that voice well. It was the same one that said "what a great idea" when he wondered out loud whether a well intentioned scratch of his gonads should morph into a sly wank each morning. For, the voice was his own and the viciously dehydrated dosser was he.

"I end up a bloody alky?" asked the bemused Screwed. "Fitting I suppose, seeing as though I've spent years driving others to drink". He watched passers by divert their gaze as his dog rough gait got in the way of rather more pleasurable sights, such as watching paint dry or a plastic bag blowing in the wind. "'Everton' as some arl dry alcoholic or 'Everton' built on Sam Allardyce anabolic?", asked the Ghost enigmatically.

With that Screwed awoke in his sweat drenched pit, utterly perplexed at what the spectral triumvirate were trying to say.

Far too tired to try and figure it out what it all meant, 'Everton' decided he would just get on the blower to that weird bloke on the box again and have him tell anyone who would listen that brilliant things lay ahead for Everton-Eezer Screwed in the new year, before hiding his head under the covers and hibernating as he had for the best part of three fucking decades.

He's here on a short-term contract as a quick fix to an immediate problem (ensuring we stay in the Premier League and have some stability so that Moshiri's so-called 'project' can continue). If he does better than that, it's a bonus, and we all realise that.

We sell our best players and replace them with inferior ones. We develop very good younger players, but ultimately sell them sooner rather than later to bigger clubs. In the 1960s we were one of the biggest clubs, and bought who we wanted, but no more.

That will not change, and we will likely remain at the level we've been at for quite a few years (top end of mid table) unless we have far more investment than Moshiri can offer. Changing managers, even to ones being paid circa £6M/year is no substitute for correcting the underlying problem.

Martinez had a more expansive philosophy but I can't say I enjoyed his second and third season with us - in fact I remember a 2-0 defeat at Stoke on a wet, windy Wednesday in February when the football was equally as turgid as anything under Allardyce.

Allardyce for all his "failings" has a motivational , game management, organisation skills etc and generally gets the best out of his players. In the situation we were in, he was the "right" appointment, in my opinion and I was "happy" with it. If and when we get to 40 points, let's see what he does then. I guess, Moshiri thinks the same as you - that's why he's only on an 18 month contract.

It's perhaps too early to expect anything else or to expect Allardyce to change his spots. Why would he anyway? He was brought in to firefight and has been dealt a set of cards he cannot change all in one go.

Pardon?

If anything, the 'acceptance' of Sam is more of an unwillingness to 'accept' Everton lurching into the Championship following the clubs previous mismanagement.

At some point Kenwright will shuffle off of this mortal coil and then some will have to find somebody else to blame for the fact that the club isn't an international money-making titan or plaything of an impossibly rich individual and so can't just pick and choose managers and players at will like City, Barcelona or Madrid.

Even Utd and Chelsea are feeling the pinch of 'not quite' at the moment, such is the competitive nature of the European leagues - and they have far more resource than us.

I don't accept rubbish from Everton, I also don't think that sacking everybody every time we lose a match - or changing managers every ten games - will do anything other than turn us into Swansea, Newcastle, Watford or Palace.

Perhaps a bit of patience might actually be a virtue - and the reason that we are still in the top league after so much time as opposed to some truly bi-polar behaviour by other clubs.

If Everton are complete rubbish at the end of this season then I expect Allardyce will be moved on - for now he is there to keep us in the division - and there is no delusion there.

The worst that can happen is that we are relegated - the second worse thing is that we muddle through and change nothing.

Luckily I doubt this lack of support for Sam will derail him from doing what he does, making the team competitive enough for the PL.

So sue us if we are hoping for a bit more from Sam, a chance that he might actually be able to make a silk purse out of a sows ear and right a few previous wrongs - these are the sort of little hopes that keep me entertained through dreadful seasons like this.

Sad as it is, those of us hoping to see free-flowing, get up out of your seats beautiful football need to get real and curb our ambition for a year or two.

In the meantime, just be grateful that Sam will likley get us to 40 points and ensure we start season 2018/19 in a league higher than the Championship.

I'm not saying we should like it, but we bloody well have to lump it (no pun intended). It ain't Sam's fault that that's how it is. Lay off him and let him do his job, while he has it.

The guy has been here about a month or so and he is the deliver of all our ills.

It must have been his fault King's Dock fell through, the Titanic sank and the Toxteth riots of course.

I was/am prepared to give Allardyce a chance after being served up 30 years of shite. Some require instant success, especially from a squad Allardyce had nil input in employing.

It's like asking Lewis Hamilton to drive a fucking Robin Reliant at the next Grand Prix.

Sixty odd years of supporting this Club and never have I heard - NOT AT THE MATCH by the way - such pure anti feeling against any Everton manager.
A fucking disgrace.

He's wiped out the debt, recruited his first-choice manager and director of football, then backed them and let them get on with it. And they royally messed it up.

The comparison with Guardiola, Martinez and Koeman is simple. All three areversed in the Cruyff school of coaching and tactics (read his excellent book). One of them can explain what he wants, two of them can't.

Moshiri, wrongly in my view, believed the hype that we were going to get relegated and brought in Sam to 'save' us. Very similar to Koeman, just jollier and more articulate.

We've been dreadful to watch for four years now, which tells me that we've recruited badly and let way, way too many players stay too long, which means the overhaul becomes ever larger.

Easy and accurate to condemn the football so far under Allardyce. Harder to predict who will be brought in and how well they'll be integrated.

Question is, will we bring in at least two players with pace and creativity? That's what we need short-term. Can't see any manager telling that kind of player to play slowly & backwards.

Stan, I'd argue that Moshiri has wiped the debt and sold two players who were inevitably going to leave for good money. From now on, it's about who he recruits, who they recruit and how much he wants to keep the best ones.

Please see Chris Jones' post for what we're taking about, being told to accept this dross.

As for going beyond this manager, never in a million years would Kenwright have been allowed to remain as chairman with this level of sustained failure at our neighbors. They woulda have driven him out of town just as they did their prior owners. At Everton, so many of the “true supporters” say how we don't want to be anything like them. Well not to worry, one club plays football at the highest level while the other is seemingly happy to just exist.

It's not the manager we should be concerned about because until the club is sorted from the top down and we have some real ambition then it doesn't really matter who the manager is as they will have the same shit hand to deal with.

But in the meantime let's just bemoan shite football, I mean it's not like we are not used to it.

Are there any of the Sam haters on here that would swap the last 9 games for the previous 9 games?

Did you really expect us to be playing a Barca type passing game and banging 4 or 5 past the poor little bottom half teams with Sam in charge? He will stop the rot keep us up give us more time etc.

It's not good to watch I agree, so if you don't like it don't watch it and come back when we are challenging for the title again.

See you in 5 or 10 years with a bit of luck.

I realize this might be difficult for you, given your pathetic straw man argument, but there is a middle ground between going to Bournemouth with three defensive midfielders and playing like Barcelona scoring 4-5 goals. Difficult for you, I know. But it is in fact possible to defend AND go into a match wanting to win and maybe, I don't know, try to score a goal.

But Liverpool no longer win stuff, not consistently anyway, for some years now. They too have to sell their best, like Coutinho will go to Barca, and I'd bet Salah will be off similarly if he keeps up this form.

I think it's down to money. Liverpool generally have spent more than us, and obviously quite well with their forward line at the moment, but they've also mis-spent a lot in the recent past. But like us lately.

Neither us nor Liverpool are the forces we once were. The forces are in Manchester and London, not Merseyside anymore. That won't change unless we have comparable finances to the likes of City, Utd and Chelsea.

I think we can reach top-6 with the current squad and a few additions provided we are well organised and disciplined by a good manager. But getting to the next level, of actually winning trophies, will (like Liverpool) be very hard without mega money.

It all reminds me of a piece by an American newspaper columnist who, five days into Richard Nixon's term, said that he was one of the country's worst-ever presidents (he may also have said that Nixon wouldn't change his spots, which he didn't, but that's beside the point).

I sometimes wish David Unsworth had been 'given until Christmas'.

It is probably all down to climate change, anyway.

Happy New Year to all!

David Barks - you get my vote for 'bang on'

The sooner this luddite that epitomises everything wrong with the English game is out of our club, the better in my opinion.

I will reluctantly accept he's been brought in to do what he does but hopefully we will only endure his brand of anti-football until the end of this season.

Why is it so hard for some to accept that Allardyce has made massive mistakes in the last couple of games and is not the infallible knight in shining armour that some make him out to be.

I was optimistic at first, however I'm worried now.

I mean look at West Brom, yes West Brom, bottom of the league, an absolute disgrace. We should have hammered them, at least half a dozen goals playing open attacking School of Science football. A draw, what a nightmare !

I wish I was able to support one of the leagues open attacking teams like . say .Arsenal ! Can you imagine what they'd do to a shit bottom of the league team like West Brom.

But I suppose being from Liverpool. maybe best to support Man City. Best in the league by far. They're top by playing wonderful School of Science stuff.
Can you imagine what they'd do to one of these bottom of the league teams like .say . Palace ?

Oh to go back to the good old days of Moyes, Martinez and Koeman. Every week a beautiful win. Those were the days.

Allardyce out.

Hence the length of his contract. He doesn't care about playing like Barca or City, he will be happy if we finish in the top ten. Job done. No more no less.

He will walk off into the sunset with his pockets rammed full of Moshiri's cash. Then Simeone will take the reigns and everything will be rosy in Evertonland! (Joke)

I understand people sticking up for Allardyce but come on three defensive midfielders against Bournemouth is taking the piss.

And the last couple of games were utter tosh, indeed.

The absence of pace and striking quality was commonly accepted on here a few months ago. We then went on to combine that deficit with a woeful failure to defend – a combination which made relegation a serious risk, despite airy views from some that we were never really in danger.

Allardyce has settled us defensively and will now have to go on to develop some attacking potency but that isn't going to arrive within a month. The real bullshit is from those who won't admit that they just loathe the manager and always will.

The reservations about Allardyce before he came (apart from his dodginess) were a reluctance to trust youth and a dour defensive set up. Unfortunately both seem to be happening in the last couple of games.

I hope I'm wrong and it doesn't continue, but I'm scared it will.

Also, if it does happen and Walsh was the one who wanted Allardyce, what does that say about his judgement? The jury's already out on him.

I say give the man a chance.

We were shambolically shite when he took over. We were conceding for fun. He has tightened us up at the back and got us organised. He has achieved this in a short space of time with no signings of his own. I'm more than willing to accept a pragmatic approach to getting points on the board and securing Premier League safety this season over playing in some imaginary ‘Everton Way' that has never really existed for any significant period of our history apart from in some people's heads.

If you couldn't see the difference between how we went to West Brom and hardly had an attempt on goal the entire 90 minutes, setting up to simply defend and hope to get a draw versus Arsenal going there and having the lead, only drawing due to a completely ridiculous penalty decision in the last minutes, then I don't know what to say.

You have usually been one of the more pragmatic and sensible posters but lately you've fallen into this Sam Allardyce position that is not making any sense. Arsenal went to West Brom for a win and had it until the ref screwed them. We went here set up to not concede and fight for a 0-0. Arsenal left fuming while we had people claiming it was a good and well earned point.

I haven't seen anybody argue that that squad was capable of delivering the exciting football we all would like to see. It follows that, since it wasn't a month ago, it's hardly likely to do so now.

Major restructuring is required, some experimentation with current players and the integration of new players, youth players perhaps, over time. Inconsistency is to be anticipated.

All that needs to be achieved whilst preserving our PL status and pushing on as high as we can.

The current manager, indeed any manager, has more experience of how this might be done than any of us. Some are better at it than others, some would tackle it in different ways, some would be more successful, some less. None would merit being judged after a month.

Close this and similar threads until at least the end of the season, preferably for twelve months, to allow sanity to prevail. I realise that many will be deprived of an opportunity to vent their spleens but they'll find other hobbyhorses to ride I reckon.

The majority of people who defend Allardyce here tend to do it on a 'give-him-time' basis, rather like the Unsworth people used to say 'give him until Christmas'. It is not like Allardyce has a big fan club here, rather that people just want to treat him fairly and decently.

My stance on Allardyce has not changed. I did not want him here and don't see him being here that long.

I certainly understand why Allardyce is here and to be honest I am now glad it was him who got the job of all the names who were mentioned. He is doing the job he was brought in to do no more no less. As far as I am concerned the writing on the wall for this season was there in pre-season. A complete write off.

More important than anything was our Premier League survival and hopefully we can now see that in sight.

What has pissed me off is the continual, non stop anti Allardyce rhetoric that I read on here but certainly do not hear in during the game. I never went to the West Brom game or other away games so can't comment on what is or is not said although my cousins say, as usual, the away support is only encouraging. Home games I have heard nothing like what I read on here.

From day one I have asked people to show the manager the respect I would have thought any Everton manager deserves, especially one coming in to the disaster of a squad and season we were having.

Unfortunately the usual suspects have continued blaming Allardyce for everything. They want him to get Bolasie and McCarthy back in, he does, he's shit. They want him to rotate at the back because Williams is shite, he does, he's shit. They want Rooney out , he's too old not performing. he gets left out we have nobody with any sort of vision and he's shit. It is continuous.

Allardyce has been here a dog's watch and can do nothing right.

Is it not possible to give him just a bit of time? Look where we are at the end of the season and make a decision then ?

As I've mentioned on other threads I've been going since Carey and never seen anything like this at the start of a managers reign. Totally out of order and I just thought we might be a bit better than that.

At the end of the day West Brom drew with Arsenal, Arsenal got 1 point, exactly the same as us and until the end of the season that to me is more important than getting beat 5-2, 5-1, 3-0 at home.

Give the man a chance.

We have scrabbled and fought for points to get us out of the mess. It hasn't been pretty but football at the bottom never is .

Hysterical posting about Big Sam is losing credibility with me. I am sure that similar people are posting about Guardiola being shite on Man City fan sites and probably not all of them are City fans.

I have watched us for years and have witnessed some rubbish. From Gordon Lee to Big Sam and I am sure he won't be the last manager to produce shit football.

I will never accept the need to go into a match against Bournemouth with three defensive midfielders and a single isolated striker. There is simply no need for that and it does not help the cause, it hurts it, for the reasons I outlined earlier. When you pose no threat to the opposition you've already made it easier for them. I don't care who the manager is.

No?

What you are really saying is you don't like what someone who has both of those things has decided. Like the rest of us fans your choice is like it or lump it.

I propose we have a thread called "Catharsis Corner", maybe sponsored by Angry Birds, where you and others can vent to your hearts content.

SA has made us competitive. Even if it is awful and uninspiring to watch. We stay 'in' every game and could have won any of them.

Expecting to play like Man City of whatever with a vastly over-rated group of plodders is just not realistic. Had our 'world beating' 㿙 million pound record signing been capable of running on to a ball and hitting it first time we might have got 3 points against Bournemouth. Who knows what would have happened?

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey.

Or, to put it more bluntly, you don't need to be a football manager to see and say the bleeding obvious.

Presumably that would apply to you and every other poster on this site, indeed even Lyndon and Michael. Fantastic, I assume you only ever discuss matters directly related to your profession? I also suppose we can quit this whole democracy and voting thing. After all, how many of us have loads of experience governing? Right, keep quiet you miserable lot, how dare you have an opinion!!!

....and, in return, Lewis Hamilton backing his Robin Reliant into a heavily secured garage, lowering the door, then people patting him on the back and saying "Look, not a fucking scratch. You can't ask for anymore than that."

Probably no other manager in Everton's history has arrived with so many blues openly against his appointment. It's not a normal situation for a new guy to be handed the reigns, when a fortnight earlier the result of every single fan poll on the subject screamed "no fucking way". Not a single Evertonian I know wanted, or thought we needed, Allardyce (either that or they weren't prepared to admit it). Hardly surprising then that he is going to have a harder time of it than his predecessors in trying to win supporters over.

Considering what we've seen his team produce so far has consisted solely of the constituent parts comprising the very case made against him (abandon almost all attacking intent, tighten up at the back, take absolutely no risks, twat it forward, play for a set-piece for they are our salvation, say you're merely being 'pragmatic' when people point out the performance was pig ugly and they had the piss bored out of them) then it's obviously not going to be enough to have the doubters climbing over each other to declare themselves as having come around already.

It may seem 'unfair' in your book, but Allardyce was always going to have to move beyond the expected bare minimum to even merit the blank slate most new managers stroll in with. The man surely knows that himself, and admitted as much in interviews when he said all he can do is try to prove he is the right man by getting the team to produce regularly out on the pitch.

You say 'He's only been here a month, give him time to change things' and you're exactly right, but the same applies to those supporters who believed his appointment a premature press of the panic button: 'He's only been here a month, give them time to change their mind'.

Hahaha what am I talking about????
Nuuuuuurse!

David, of course everyone is entitled to an opinion and a moan but for heavens sake back the opinion up with at least some observations and practical, argued alternatives. The moans and foot-stamping may be cathartic but it sure is boring. Give the moaners their own thread unless they have an argument to make.

Give him time, a realistic time. God knows he was getting slagged after the Huddersfield game !

Maybe - maybe not - after a realistic amount of time fans may well change their minds but it seems to me there are a number who are not prepared to give him a minute. They had it in for him before he arrived and it seems whatever happens nothing will change their minds.

To all intents and purpose the season is already over so would it not be possible to look where we are at the end of the season and come to some conclusion ?

The only chance he has to in any way alter the squad to any extent is this window. None of us know how much he will be given. He has said more or less he has to sell before buying a midfielder. Who knows the restrictions cash wise.

All's I'm saying and have been since he signed on is to give him a chance. Like Unsworth he has been left a bunch of crap with which he had/has to somehow get something out of. He has to give everyone a chance to see if he can use them. I have no doubt he is having to play, like Unsworth, players normally he wouldn't.

Whoever comes here in January more than likely will be possibly not who would be available in the close season but at least improve the present mob.

But most worrying is that the same mistakes in line-ups are being made by Allardyce that were by Koeman. Morgan Schneiderlin and Gana were two reasons we have been so bad this term. Enough has been said about the poor form of the former but when put next to another player of the same ilk, we have no out ball and that brings teams onto us and exposes an often makeshift, inexperienced or lacking confidence back four.

Yes, we've defended well of late but for me you go to West Brom and Bournemouth to go toe to toe with them. The superior quality of our squad should mean, if we're positive and attacking, we go ahead and then lock up later on. Not the other way round which leaves you playing catch up if they get a break or a hit a screamer or something.

Would you rather we are still bottom three or are you so blind that you can't see he has taken us away from the bottom three and done the job he was hired to do.

He has dragged us up to 9th.., yes, 9th with the shit squad that was not of his making and for one I am happy with the outcome, but like a lot of others on here not happy with having to watch the awful football on display.

Lets see what the January transfer window brings in and see how we are at the end of the season.

If you don't think he has done a great job in getting us to where we are now you are deluded.

If he can't improve the rubbish being served up all season he will be out soon enough as were Koeman and Martinez.

I would respectfully suggest the squad is not how you describe it. Disjointed, yes. Lacking cover in certain positions? Yes

But we have numbers and plenty of talented players, some of whom just have been shoved into systems which didn't suit them.

I cannot accept any squad with Pickford, Jagielka, Kenny, Holgate, Davies, Gueye, Rooney, Lennon, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse and Sigurdsson in it is bad. There's a semblance of a very good side in there.

Whether it is Allardyce, Martinez or whoever call it out for what it was, pathetic.

The criticism is fair and not just because it's Allardyce.

People seem to forget WBA haven't won since August, Bournemouth no win in 9 and consistently shooting themselves in the foot.

The arguement above is clear why we should have overlooked a manager who has lived most of his life in the bottom half of the league.

I'd go as far too say he's done whst he was enlisted for why keep him on any further?

My greatest fear is the marginalisation of younger players. In all reality we don't need average senior players usurping minutes when Vlasic, Lookman et al could become more seasoned players without consequence.

If Everton haven't got his replacement already lined up, and locked up in a dark room somewhere, then hard to have any sympathy towards Moshiri.

Very hard to feel anything other than apathy towards the club under Allardyce. We are just treading muddy water.

The rest are either not good enough or are over the hill. The young lads might come good, but they'll playing in a sub standard team. The top 6 seems a yawning gap, and the players we are linked with don't appear to close that gap. A team going backwards despite the millions.

He has done a job that can only be judged as effective (and thanks for that) and he has done it by concentrating on only a few of the many issues that the players have at the moment.

However, if you don't agree it is a ‘great' job then you are ‘deluded' and a ‘hater'.

John Daley – pure class and entertainment.

All the best for 2018 to everyone!

How many of the players you mentioned as being good enough:

"Pickford, Jagielka, Kenny, Holgate, Davies, Gueye, Rooney, Lennon, Calvert-Lewin, Niasse and Sigurdsson" would get in to a top 7 side?

Pickford? I think so, Gueye maybe, the others nowhere near a top 7 team.

All the best to you all, and for our beloved Blues in 2018.

So moving forward to this season I am sure that if we had kept Koeman we would have gone down. The players had given up. Why, we probably will not know for many years. There seemed to be no preparation to know the opposition, no plan for attack or defence and definitely no plan B. The defence had more holes in it than a fisherman's net. Perhaps that's where our crab like sideways passing came from, side side back forward a bit back and sideways again then give the ball away. Utter shite.

I was totally against Big Sam coming to Goodison but I prefer now to what we were like several weeks ago; 9th is better than 16th and moving lower. Yes we are playing rubbish but it is organised rubbish. This period now needs to be stable, the players need to regain their confidence and skills. Then we start rebuilding and move forward. We cannot move anywhere with the mess we have at the moment. What's that saying that gives me a buzz, oh I know: "To infinity and beyond" – that's our goal.

Jags on his day is still better than many centre halves in the fictional, nonsensical media derived Top 6 hence the defensive problems Arsenal and the RS have had. You seem to have forgotten Rooney was playing for one of those top sides last season and is doing pretty well for us. Lennon might not get in those teams but can do a really good job. Barkley, who I didn't mention, would walk into Arsenal's team and arguably United's because they don't have anything like him.

The Sigg would get into one of them as would Gueye. Maybe Kenny and Davies as well. I think some people swallow what the media tell us when Harry Winks walks into the England squad after a handful of matches when Tom Davies is clearly more proven.

We have good players; not so much the management and coaching.

And if Allardyce had got the last two matches right, we'd be right on top of the media 6.

But its not just Sam who we let delude us, how many manager since Mike Walker??

At my age, baring a miracle I don't see a league title on the horizon, I'd settle for just 1 decent go in the CL and an FA Cup win...hopefully while I can still handle longhaul flights.

Back when we were endlessly debating the Kenwright-Moyes axis / glass ceiling, Michael Kenrick called it spot on; nothing will change until some unforseen thing happens. I decided then, if we have to be perennial 5th, 6th, then can we at least play some decent stuff...I think that still stands.

The clock clicks over, the year moves on and we watch the game every week, it's what we do...and a good pinch of delusion is required, nay compulsory.

Stopped the rot? I think not. Sorry, Sam Allardyce... go home!!!!!!

And a Happy New Year to all Evertonians.

I did not call for his immediate removal, I just wished he had never been appointed and that he will be gone before he damages the club I love too much.

On a side note I think todays game could be billed as the "Battle of Jurrasic Park" not Goodison Park - 2 dinosaur managers. One who has been able to buy the largest animals, with big sharp teeth and fear, and the second who has uses slow bigger lumbering monsters. However with 2 scary ones missing you just never know who might come out on top.

Sadly we are in a position with people dead against Sam and therefore we will get these debates on a game by game basis depending on the result and how we play.

However you can recognise that the ship has been steadied and be prepared to give him a chance. That does not mean you are happy with the performances.

I would like Everton to show more ambition as a club, I have said this for years. They don't and therefore what we get is what we see in front of us. It has been this way for over 20 years.

Correct, but watching the Grand National doesn't mean you know how to ride.

When I was in my twenties and thirties Evertonians used to slag of Geordies because they believed they should be beating other clubs. Now Evertonians think that we should be beating teams like West Brom. I hate to tell you but we have no right to beat West Brom and we very rarely do. In fact we have only beaten them four times since they were last promoted to the PL. In that time they have beaten us three times so recent history tells us that we are relatively equal when it comes to head to head results.

Premier League Everton are not a winning club and the Premier League has been going on for long enough for things that happened before its conception to be nothing more than a nice memory. Dreams are lovely and we all have them but expectations need to be based on where we are now and were we have been in recent times. Based on the last few years my expectations are to get back to where we were under Moyes, 'best of the rest' and then I will change my expectations and expect us to push on to play better football and break the top six on a consistent basis. Then I will change again and expect us to challenge for the title and win trophies.

Finally if you don't want to support the team during this period of dross put your tickets up on stubhut and let somebody else go.

Righto. I look forward to tuning in to the next edition of Blue Planet, presented and narrated by an assortment of creatures from the Animal Kingdom.

Unfortunately, Peter, I can't take the credit for this quote. It came from Arrigo Sacchi, architect of the great Milan side of the late 80s, whose credentials to manage were questioned by journalists as he had zero professional playing experience and for a while was a shoe salesman.

The players are professional so surely they can pass which would help in keeping the ball this should be a basic for any team, and this has not just happened since Sam arrived it's a failing that has been happening for a season or more.

Get the defence solid re learn to pass the ball and we may just start to play better football.

Allardyce is needed because we had forgotten how to defend or have some of you just not noticed. To get success you need the building blocks first, not the pipe dream. He won't be here long, but at least he'll hand over a decent defence to any future manager. We should be eternally grateful to him for saving us from certain relegation.

Some people are just never satisfied though , I remember after winning the league with Howard Kendall a guy turned round at the end of the game and said .' glad we won the league but I just can't stand Kendall ! there's just something about him ' I see a lot of that attitude on here, what planet do some of you guys live on ?

There were several in the game, but two stand out, as they coincided with the two goals. I am a big fan of JonJoe from his time in u23s, but I would like to see him exercise a bit more caution when venturing forward and a lot more urgency in getting back into position. I noticed Bolasie 'chasing' back in another situation, not really bothered whether he got goal side or not - I know he has been out but he's deemed fit to play.

The defensive 'efforts' at holding up Wilson for his botched attempt early on, at blocking, nay 'evading', the cross for first goal and shot for the second were abysmal.

These were aspects of our play that I thought would have improved significantly under Allardyce. I didn't expect the Barcelona stuff but as David Barks pointed out above, there is a middle ground. I watched a recent Man City match where an opponent made a break up the left wing and there were no less than 4 City players in hot pursuit and within 7/8 yards to pounce on their victim.

Happy New Year greetings to all ToffeeWebbers. Keep the faith.

My first chuckle of the new year!

A highly selective use of statistics. Ok then, prior to the loss to Bournemouth, our record read: Pl 5 W3 D1 L1. So history there suggests we should have gone there and won.

We had won 3 of our last 4 PL games against WBA and won on our previous two visits to the Hawthorns. So recent history would have pointed to a win.

We played two sides fighting relegation and picked up a point and registered 4 shots on goal in 180 minutes. That is simply not good enough.

Deep breath.. ok guys, lets face it many of you have the memory capacity of goldfish, many others are relishing in the "I told you his football is crap" moments given on his appointment.
But whether you like it or not we were heading for the drop or a fight that would have been lost in my opinion. Allardyce's appointment was a pragmatic short term appointment with nothing else but a "get us out of the crap" objective. Its not there yet and the football is dire, but infinitely better than the previous month and more importantly we have the points on the board.
Of course that isn't enough to pin our colours to the mast and say he is the future but he has my respect for doing his job. Something unusual in Everton Football club of late but welcome nonetheless.
The fabled footballing project got shelved whilst we concentrated on the immediate relegation and pure, utter dire situation we were in, thanks no less to Koeman, Walsh and a board bereft of doing their job.

His job is not the prettiest but at least we have 11 players who are playing like a team and under orders. Its not a team I like, I want or for the future. But how many of you will grumble ( quite a few I guess) if we qualify for Europe? Long term ( or even post this season) the team will improve, but the fundamental issue for Everton FC and us as supporters. If, as the OP suggests, football has moved on past Sam Allardyce, then 88 teams in the Football leagues may as well pack up shop. Because there isn't the quality, the players, the coaches or the money to make large scale improvements.

I don't agree with the analysis that football has moved on and there is no place for a manager like Allardyce. In fact I would like to see ( as I am sure he would love the opportunity) to show exactly what he can do with a team with ambition, money and not in relegation trouble. He is tarred with the brush of his own making, he gets clubs out of trouble playing a no nonsense game, right now it can be dire to watch but honestly I will take the points it generates until we can build a team once more.

Who builds that team? well frankly if we finish top 6 or 7 and qualify for Europe then why should he not be given that year to see what he can do? if we finish 10th or lower then he has stabilised the ship and the board can build on that with a new manager, but until the end of the season we need to get behind him and the team to do their job.

Happy New Year everyone, especially to every player too.. who knows some may just read what we say!

But as there is nothing I can do about it, he will get my full support, because he is the Manager of Everton Football Club. Likewise any player either already with the club, or about to join.

I don't know about changing philosophy, but I admired Alex Ferguson for changing his coaching staff and the way he man-managed differently when wages started getting silly.

Only percentage title winner I can think of is the guy that coached that dreadful Greek side that won the Euros.

Was Pickford at Sunderland when Allardyce was there? Also remember that youngster Whatmore. He got a degree and Allardyce presented it to him in front of all the players and staff, citing him as an example of the importance of learning. What happened to Whatmore?

Jim, I can't understand anyone having a go at anyone for criticising a manager for playing poor football. Mind you, I can't understand the rapid-fire condemnation of a manager that inherited a disorganised mess and has it just behind City in the current form table.

Maybe Moyes is the manager to take us there? We'll see in 18 months time?

I laughed last week when my old man said Everton could be relegated!! I'm not laughing now!!

Not going to happen hmm..

I'm also struggling to understand the vehement hatred shown towards him and the at times desperate determination to make the more patient of us join in with the hate.

I'm with John Keating – I'm not over the moon with Allardyce being here but I can understand why he was brought in and why he's gone about it the way he has.

However, the performances against West Brom and Bournemouth demonstrated a worrying lack of ambition. He does what he does, no more it seems.

What I do know is that I have disliked his brand of football all the way through his managerial career. That view won't change just because he is now Everton manager. The only thing that does is now it's the team I support who will be playing the Allardyce way for as long as he is at the helm.

Whatmore of Sunderland, rated very highly, has had a bad injury and is currently on the injured list.

Liked your article Christine (86), open, honest and to the point, as usual, I voted for Sam to be given the job as I was almost sure Sammie Lee would come with him, a very good coach, big Sam has his critics, about ten to every one who likes him, but he was the only one who I thought could guarantee us staying in the premier league, he started off better than most expected, he has stalled with not going in a more attacking sense in the last two games, we could have got more than one point out of those two games but let's see how we shape up after the transfer window is shut, better I hope, although we are still not out of trouble and by the end of January a lot of will be looking at the bottom of the league table than the top half, but I am now more confident we will stay up because we were in desperate trouble, no doubt about that, the last two games have shown how poor the squad is.

Can we put all thoughts of relegation aside? It ain't gonna happen.

The '40 points to be safe' mantra is a myth.

In the 22 seasons since the PL switched to a 20 team, 38 game format, the average final points tally for the teams finishing in the bottom 3 are as follows:

18th - 35
19th - 32
20th - 25

In all that time - 66 examples, if you will - only 3 teams have been relegated with 40+ points, Sunderland in 96-97 and Bolton in 97-98, both with 40 points, then WHU with an all-time high for relegated clubs in that 22 year time span, with 42.

Ergo, there are currently 11 clubs below us in the league. It would take a spectacular collapse of form by Everton to fail to earn a further 9 points in the remaining 17 games to take us above the 35 point medium of 18th placed clubs relegated over the past 22 seasons, AND a serious upswing in fortunes of at least 9 of the 11 clubs below us.

To still fear relegation from the position we are now in is not even a glass half empty mentality. It smacks of not having a glass at all and no breweries to produce the golden nectar to pour into said missing glass.

Best get to 40 points as early as possible, relax a little and then judge Allardyce on how he sets the team up. Best to judge the leopard when he has no further excuse not to change his spots

Everyone wanted to give Koeman time, until he had a summer window. Now he is vilified. Why doesn't Allardyce get the same treatment?

Prejudice before he came, sadly. Blind prejudice. Judge him next Christmas or you are not comparing eggs with eggs.

At no point this season did I think we would get relegated and that why I was disappointed with the appointment of Allardyce which seemed a desperate short -term measure taken to prevent something I never thought we were in danger of.

But he's here now and has done pretty well in terms of results so far, though we've had a few dollops of luck along the way.

I'm resigned to the Colin Glasar prediction that Sam will stay the season, lead us to 7th-10th playing mediocre football and that will be his job done. If he can get these players doing better and passing the football around a bit then maybe he will have earned the right to stay beyond the Summer but there's been little sign of it so far.

Christine,

Best wishes to you too. A very balanced and entitled view. We have a divisive figure who will naturally attract divided opinion. I think we are all going to have to live with that more so than previous managers.

I personally put Allardyce in a category alongside all of the similar (not identical) breed of British managers of their generation. Allardyce, Moyes, Pullis, Hughes, Pardew etc. They all set up not to lose and hope they can some how pull off the odd decent result. Deliberately play down expectation and play the plucky card; this allows mediocracy to be claimed as success.

I have to disagree with your view that you would like to see him "show exactly what he can do with a team with ambition, money and not in relegation trouble".

Clearly the Evertonian in me would like to see him succeed but the football purist in me cannot as it is rewarding an awful approach to the game I love.

Also, reverting back to my analysis of this breed of British manager; didn't David Moyes get handed the Champions of England and one of the biggest & richest (if not the biggest & richest) clubs on the planet. What did he do? Took Steve Round inclusive of head set with him, tried to buy Leighton Baines and then bought Fellaini at 23:59pm on deadline day for £4m more than he could have had him for after much dithering.

He basically tried to do what he'd done at Everton for 11 years when presented with one of the biggest platforms he could have wished for. The history books show how that went.

Allardyce will be Allardyce, regardless of the club or players at his disposal.

In my opinion obviously. If I am proven wrong, I will eat the humblest of pies!!

I hope Sam sorts this sack of shit he calls football out very soon... Look on the bright side: we could still win the FA Cup.

It has come down to this with me also.

Never having confidence we can win any game let alone against Manure at Goodison.

The form of the team has been very depressing and no matter what the manager or any manager seems to do to change the players up they always seem to come out without any real intensity or belief they can win or even hold on to something late on.

Still, we live in hope something bright will happen that will spark our excitement again.

I did not want Sam Allardyce anywhere near my beloved Everton and the sooner the season is over and he is removed the better as far as I am concerned.

We are the worst side to watch in the league by some margin and the current tactics are a disgrace. David (6) flagged it up, the 3 DM's at Bournemouth was the end for me. Embarrassing to be going to a bottom 3 side set up like a non league team in a cup tie, and after the money we have spent Disgusting.

The whole club just feels UnEverton to me.

But anyway it is what it is. Isn't it. Happy New Year, maybe this is the window we get Riquelme?

I've been on ToffeeWeb for about 2 years, and once or twice I've nearly decided not to bother, because some of the posts are a bit depressing. But then I adjusted my reading to skim over depressing or overly-repetitive posts, as best I could, which works OK. That said, I can be a bit repetitive myself at times, which I think just reflects that you think you have something worthwhile to say.

The age demographic does appear quite high, but there are other sites where it's lower. I'm 63, and could bore you to tears with recollections of the Alex Young and Alan Ball years. But that's just relating great experiences, which we all want as Evertonians.

In my experience, there are plenty of curmudgeonly crabby arses of all ages, Evertonians included. The older ones I know were pretty much like that when they were younger, they just get more confident in their curmudgeonliness as they get older.

Happy New Year.

However, the failure to replace Lukaku, the Barkley affair, the injuries to Bolasie and Coleman and the selling of Barry have effectively robbed us of a team that could have done some serious damage to the top five or six teams in the Premier League. The management issues, lack of a quality striker and buying players that no one else wanted for inflated prices have brought about this situation.

There is no doubt that we needed Big Sam, we were well and truly in the cart. He has got us moving in the right direction but is very limited with what he has.

The youth in the team have done very well, and there is no doubt they are the building blocks of the future for what could be a seriously challenging for honours team. I'm not down-hearted about the future, I think it looks very bright, we have quality in the wings.

There is no doubt that football is eating itself at the present. I don't see how things can be sustained at this level. The gulf in the Premier League is now like the Grand Canyon, wide and, rocky for the clubs that can't keep up. We will not be a top five team for a few years. The green shoots are there, and need to be nurtured. I'm just glad the club had the presence of mind to concentrate on the youngsters, and would like to think it has been a strategy for the future.

There is much talk of tactics on here at the moment, but we don't have the players to play the forward pressing game. We do have a very defensive outfit, which at the present will have to do the job. It's not pretty but it's an investment in our future we have to pay to stay in the Premier League. It's back to basics for the club, one tactic I would like to see improved on is basic passing and ball control, I have lost count over the last few games the amount of times we gave the ball away, and also failed to control it, this is basic stuff. It's time for heads down and show some character.

On a final note, I think both Sam's are very committed to the club. This is very important, and bodes well for the future.

This was a well written piece, with a lot of food for thought.

Get dug in, COYB.