Apollon Limassol 0 - 3 Everton
Ademola Lookman capped a lively display with a brace, the second of which was a spectacular 25-yarder
Everton signed off an otherwise miserable Europa League campaign with an emphatic win over Apollon Limassol
Ademola Lookman had the Blues 2-0 up at the break thanks to a rare header and a thumping long-range effort and Nikola Vlasic put the iciing on the cake with an impressive individual effort late in the second half.
Both teams had already been eliminated from the competition and with nothing riding on the outcome, assistant coach Craig Shakespeare took the opportunity to blood some youth players and name a raft of youngsters, none of whom have played any senior football, on the subs bench.
Harry Charsley and Fraser Hornby made their debuts while Morgan Feeney made his first start but it was two wingers with prior first-team experience who lit up the game for Everton in a game they might have won even more decisively were it not for European debutant Kissas in the Limassol goal.
Everton's young outfit acquitted themselves well in the early going and came very close to scoring on two occasions in the first 10 minutes.
Lookman was released into space by a lovely Klaassen pass but the winger delayed his shot too long in front of goal and his effort was ultimately saved well from point-blank range.
More trickery from Lookman was eventually broken up as he tried to dribble his way into the box but the ball fell invitingly to Charsley whose impressive curling effort was heading for the top corner until the 'keeper palmed it behind.
Everton did score with 20 minutes gone, though, with Vlasic the creator this time. The Croatian got a second chance to cross which he did from the byline and Lookman was well-placed at the far post to head home.
And it was Lookman who doubled the lead in spectacular fashion a few minutes later when he picked up a long clearance from Robles and unleashed a powerful shot from 25 yards out that Kissas couldn't keep out.
Sardinero tried to reduce arrears for the home side but he was denied by an excellent stop from Robles.
Then, after Papoulis's effort from outside the box was palmed away, Sardinero popped up again on the edge of the six-yard box but Robles closed the angle and saved comfortably.
Back at the other end, Mirallas took advantage of the space that opened up in front of him but dragged a shot wide of goal 11 minutes before half-time.
Apollon thought they had make it 2-1 in the 39th minute when a free kick from the left bounced into the far corner off a slight touch from Papoulis but the referee's assistant had spotted an offside "goal" was chalked off.
Kissas was forced into a another save as half-time approached when Vlasic fired hard and low and the 'keeper got down quickly to block it with his legs before Papoulis shrugged off Baningime's challenge but sliced wide for Apollon.
A late penalty claim by the Cypriot side when Besic went sliding in on his man was waved away as the Blues took a 2-0 lead into the interval.
Robles was called into the first save of the second period, an awkward block from a long-range effort as the home side carried the greater threat going forward in the first 10 minutes of the second half.
But Everton sparked into life in the 56th minute when Vlasic's backheel put Lookman in again but the latter went for hat-trick glory rather than squaring a return ball and Kissas parried his shot behind.
A somewhat harsh decision to penalise Klaassen for handball right on the edge of his own box gave Limassol a chance from a direct free kick but Pedro's shot cannoned off the defensive wall.
Kissas had to come to Apollon's rescue twice in the space of a few seconds to make blocking saves from both Mirallas and Hornby as a comfortably-positioned Everton occasionally exploited the space afforded by the home side's back line.
Shakespeare's first change of the night saw Hornby make way for fellow striker Nathan Broadhead with nine minutes left.
Great work by the young Welshman almost set Vlasic up but, like Lookman in the first half, he couldn't engineer a shot and was eventually closed down.
The former Hajduk Split man did much better a minute or so later, though, when he prodded Broadhead's flick past the last defender, sprinted onto the ball and slipped it past the advancing goalkeeper to make it 3-0.
16-year-old Anthony Gordon came on late for Mirallas with a couple of minutes to go while Alex Denny replaced Charsley in stoppage time.
Kick-off: 6pm, Thursday, 7 December, 2017Everton: Robles, Baningime, Feeney, Besic, Charsley (Denny 90'+1), Klaassen, Schneiderlin, Vlasic, Mirallas (Gordon 88'), Lookman, Hornby (Broadhead 82')
Subs: Hewelt, Collins, Duke-McKenna, Denny, Lavery.
Reader Comments (209)
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1 Posted 07/12/2017 at 16:47:56
2 Posted 07/12/2017 at 16:52:03
He could go off the rails.
3 Posted 07/12/2017 at 16:52:55
Let's hope the young blues and reserves give a good account of themselves. Will Schneiderlin step up as captain or go missing again?
4 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:02:59
Fraser Hornby given a start. Can't imagine many saw that coming.
5 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:04:44
Sorry, Lyndon, but I can't think of a more under performing player than Morgan Schneiderlin to put on top of the article, well maybe Ashley Willams.
Once again Radio Merseyside ignores Everton, oh but they have rugby on!
6 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:15:05
Think most of the gang missed your pun re Hornby (probably an age thing), don't forget your coat on the way out...
7 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:21:56
That could be a football first. Anyone know?
8 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:22:14
9 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:24:46
We don't know who will be playing Sunday but, looking at tonight's team, we can have an educated guess who won't.
10 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:27:34
11 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:29:19
12 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:29:32
That's a real groaner!
So why am I still laughing at it...?
13 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:33:07
14 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:36:03
I'm thinking but still don't 'get it'...
15 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:38:29
"Do I make your Hornby baby? Do I?"
Sorry, I will get my coat as well.
16 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:40:54
Ray @ 13... difficult to gauge the scale of the likely score with this selection.
17 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:44:53
18 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:46:47
19 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:48:10
20 Posted 07/12/2017 at 17:51:08
21 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:04:29
22 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:15:41
23 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:29:28
25 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:37:23
26 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:40:03
27 Posted 07/12/2017 at 18:55:36
Considering the back four is a real mish-mash of players, they're doing OK.
The goals will help Lookman's confidence. The header was a really good finish, whilst Vlasic did well to retrieve Mirallas's overhit 1-2 to provide the cross.
Nice hit for his 2nd, but the keeper has to keep them out.
Glad he didn't!
Quite nice watching Everton without the stress levels!
28 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:08:34
The bizarre thing about this Everton squad is that it is largely made up of youth-team players, and is managed by Craig Shakespeare, who has been at the club for about a week. Surely it would make more sense for David Unsworth who presumably knows these kids well to take this game?
Surely it would make more sense for David Unsworth who presumably knows these kids well to take this game?
They've got a point.
29 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:16:13
30 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:21:30
31 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:23:35
In the first five games.
32 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:38:16
Although not sure I understand Baningime playing at right back... Surely we have an available right back, or even Holgate? Bizarre.
33 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:53:03
Don't any one try to tell me there isn't enough talent to work with at Everton.
34 Posted 07/12/2017 at 19:54:00
Feeney stood out to me. I'm told Unsy loves this kid. Described him as a Dave Watson type of centre-half.
35 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:06:00
I would hope both get in the match day squad Sunday.
Klaassen showed signs of an awakening which, for me, is not unexpected. A good player marooned by the maelstrom of events.
Three wins, three clean sheets. 🤣
36 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:08:21
The youngsters can only gain from this experience and hopefully it will give them the taste for more.
37 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:12:49
38 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:14:11
39 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:15:02
There was some great moments. I wasn't that happy with the more senior players though. Mirallas had some good flashes, but was petulant when he should have led by example. Schneiderlin didn't have his worst game, but it was hardly a captain's performance. Klaassen was steady, but a couple of shaky moments and no real glimpses of the sublime skills for which we signed him (they are there, honest).
Besic was up and down. There was a few times where he charged forward forgetting he was the only adult in that defence and had responsibilities. He needed a far more disciplined performance than what he gave. Robles did well though, couple of decent saves, but easily beaten for the disallowed goal.
For a right-footed attacking midfielder, Harry Charsley was fantastic at left-back! Baningime was decent, but itching to step into midfield. Feeney was a rock at the back. But the best kid by far was Fraser Hornby, he led the line really well and looks one for the future for sure. I read he's a midfielder who had a growth spurt and filled out so got pushed up front recently. That would explain why he has a good all-round game.
Lookman was fantastic. But if he, Mirallas and the equally excellent Vlasic all played tonight, who is playing on the left against RS? And is one of them who has been filling in for them in the training going on back at home.
Reserves: 1 win, First team: 0 wins. Reassuring end to an embarrassing campaign.
40 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:15:53
41 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:17:12
The kids were excellent tonight, some of them playing out of position too. Weird to think that we drew 1-1 with this team at Goodison with a first team, play the kids with a few seniors and we come away with a comprehensive win!
Lookman was Man of the Match for me today. The only thing that spoiled the match for me was the histrionics from their team. It was ridiculous and the referee did nothing about it, despite how blatant it was.
However, that is modern football, this is the reason I generally don't watch games now, I just watch Everton as we seem to still do it a lot less than other teams despite the Niasse ban. What I will say, how come he is the only one in the opening 4 months of the season that has been pulled up on it!!??
Anyways, good performance by a very young team!
42 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:19:28
Also, the three wins in the trot, with 9 goals scored and clean sheets, will surely provide a boost in confidence and determination prior to the Derby. COYB.
43 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:22:10
44 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:24:27
45 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:36:15
Much lesser with the so-called senior mentors; not one (apart from Robles) showed that they were the key men!
Young Feeney too played well, which as a result tonight was meaningless, but spoke volumes for hope, re-assurance that the right bricks are available for future improvements.
46 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:37:09
47 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:37:27
I can't see a future for Klaassen; if he can't impress against that rubbish, then he will never make it in the Premier League and how we drew at Goodison with them is a mystery they are gash.
January sale ASAP please get shut of the dross.
48 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:43:28
I was pleased with Klaassen too but thought Schneiderlin looked as cumbersome as ever. How fast did we look as a team compared to the home tie?
We looked like we knew what we were doing. Poor opposition but great bedding in game for the future players.
Paul (#47), I thought Mirallas did well and helped the youth in attack. He worked hard as far as I could see.
49 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:45:29
50 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:46:39
Hornby has always been big for his age even, I first saw clips of him in midfield for Scotland U17s and he was the biggest outfielder on the pitch.
The transition to playing as a striker started last season, and he looked a goalscorer but then was injured. He's only really been back 6-8 weeks and hasn't got much U23s time to his name.
It's fantastic to see him do so well tonight, and if he's not knackered, he could play for the U18s at Goodison in the Youth Cup vs Ipswich tomorrow night.
51 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:49:43
Lookman and Vlasic rightly get all the plaudits and I thought Robles did very well but Beni is never a right-back.
52 Posted 07/12/2017 at 20:57:51
Seriously, obviously the game didn't matter. But as we saw in the last Europa League game, a thrashing can still have an effect on confidence around the club.
So well done boys.
Sam's selection against Huddersfield made it pretty clear he's going to reward performance. I wonder if anyone has played themselves into the derby tonight?
53 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:00:07
Jay, I didn't think he had a bad game, I just wasn't happy with his petulant attitude and think he should have tried to lead by example as the oldest of our players. There was some great flashes, but not enough overall for me.
54 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:10:30
Phill, you are clued up on the Youth team players, how young / old is Anthony Gordon who came on for the last few minutes tonight, is he possibly Everton youngest ever first team player?
55 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:13:28
Some good lads in the reserves never even looked at chopping and changing constantly players out of position, void of any confidence.
I'd love to meet the pair of 'em down a dark alley!
56 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:13:36
Lookman had the left-wing slot. He should have gas in the tank and should play against Liverpool on the basis of retaining the winning team in the league. Vlasic should be on the bench and the first one to turn to.
I wonder why Sam sent Vlasic, Mirallas and Lookman all to play, when these are the three who would contest the left wing role?
I can understand the need to get a performance like they did out of Lookman, but he will also have missed some valuable training, particularly defensive work as a unit.
57 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:18:03
Again tonight's game was meaningless as far as the Europa League goes but it did do a lot for those young lads, who to a man never let us down, as for those who should know better!
Robles is not included in the above, as he he did what was asked and kept a clean sheet.
58 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:21:38
We need to get more pace and movement into our team, just like the RS have; youth is the key and the way forward for us. Over to you, Sam; little chance, I suspect.
59 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:21:40
60 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:21:50
Enough of those jokes but how about our youngsters hey? Lookman I believe, after watching him in the U20 World Cup and sporadically since is an absolute gem of a player. Hope he makes it as a regular by the end of the season, so much talent, give him the minutes and let him shine. (I'm not advocating him starting at this stage though.)
Bright future for the rest onwards and upwards.
61 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:22:52
Only seen the highlights on YouTube of the U18s, but with 12 in 10, from the No 10 spot, Anthony Gordon, aka the ginger Messi, looks a real prospect.
He's not lightning but he's fast over a couple of yards, he's got great feet, great touch and close control, so he glides last players and this season his finishing has been sensational, which apparently it was not last season.
This is all second hand mind. Only saw him off YouTube and read up on him.
62 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:32:22
63 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:36:44
Yes it was, a real oversight on my behalf! I think I am subconsciously blanking out moments of the season!
64 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:43:00
65 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:46:09
Any ideas? And has Lookman just played himself back into the starting line-up?
66 Posted 07/12/2017 at 21:58:37
I also think there's a chance he could play Calvert-Lewin on the left and Niasse in the middle as that gives us more pace and direct threat on the break which is surely our best chance of scoring.
67 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:02:11
According to the Transfermarkt site, Anthony Gordon DoB is 24 February 2001 so, using Excel, I calculate he is 16 and 286 days today, slightly younger than Rooney when he made his debut at 16 and 297 days. Joe Royle was 16 and 281 days and record holder is James Vaughan at 16 and 270 days.
All my own calculations so subject to verification, but if my maths are correct and there aren't others I have missed out on entirely, Gordon is the 3rd youngest to debut in the 1st team.
68 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:04:48
69 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:05:06
70 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:05:58
Reports a few days ago said he'd had a knock!
71 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:07:01
72 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:09:17
Sandro is injured and I would expect Allardyce to keep the same starting 11 on Sunday so Sigurdsson will be on the left.
74 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:20:17
Win after win after win. EFC are like a 20-tonne juggernaut with brake failure since Sam has arrived – just don't get in the way or else!!!
Is this the greatest start to a managerial career yet at EFC? The statisticians will know.
5 scored, 0 conceded and 9-0 if we account for your influence against West Ham. And bringing youth through as well.
(Over the top? Just trying to add balance the OTT negativity of last week.)
75 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:20:30
76 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:33:37
Pile the cash on the Blues for Monday and get on them each way for the title too.
77 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:42:28
The title has gone for this season. Even Miracle Man Sam can't achieve that (yet).
Also got a 12/1 place bet today on a horse called Allardyce in the 15:45 at Clonmel.
This man is a genius!!! Get him on to the Brexit negotiations. And the Middle Eastern peace talks.
(OTT? Nothing compared to last week.)
78 Posted 07/12/2017 at 22:59:24
I don't think he's on track to be choo-choosen at the weekend.
79 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:00:44
80 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:07:37
81 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:11:54
82 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:28:58
83 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:34:14
Now for Sunday and a win. Break the hoodo of 20 years, on our old ground.
84 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:35:36
Is it the total of the squad numbers on the bench?
85 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:35:59
86 Posted 07/12/2017 at 23:36:01
I thought Robles, the defenders, Lookman and Vlasic were all excellent. Klaassen is a worry as he seems to be chasing shadows all the time and he can't tackle to save his life.
88 Posted 08/12/2017 at 00:03:03
Agreed. I feared the worst with a patched-up team. But I remember another dead rubber for Man Utd years back after Everton “legend” Jesper Blomqvist tore them apart with Gothenburg. Fergie, like Sam tonight let some kids play and they beat Galatassary 4-0. Some kid called Beckham scored from 25 yards out... maybe Lookman and Co?
89 Posted 07/12/2017 at 00:06:54
Loving the new clean-sheet Blues!
90 Posted 08/12/2017 at 00:22:24
The lows we share together (and squabble over) give us a greater perception and depth into being a real fan and allow us an enhanced enjoyment of the good times.
No self grandiose or self-entitlement unlike, for instance, our next opponents.
91 Posted 08/12/2017 at 00:26:42
"There are around 1,400 Everton fans who have made the trip tonight which is pretty extraordinary isn't it? Considering the context of the game."
Good on yer, all those who made the trip.
92 Posted 08/12/2017 at 00:53:27
They are part of the problem we are currently experiencing and will never be part of any future solution. I can't believe Schneiderlin was captain; I would be happy to see him never wear the Royal Blue again. Bring on the January Sales and let's get rid of all the shite. Leadership is needed on the pitch ASAP.
93 Posted 08/12/2017 at 01:16:37
As I didn't watch the game, this second-hand account will have to do. At least we exited the competition in some style. And we appear to have a great pool of talent in depth.
95 Posted 08/12/2017 at 01:47:30
Lads played well tonight. Impressed with Feeney, Charsley, Lookman and Vlasic (should be getting more minutes IMO).
Onto the daunting fixture next. And I don't think there will be a sober Evertonian come 2pm on Sunday. But for once it would be warming at least to see the team go there and actually put up a fight. However, due to past experiences, I can't see it happening. Hope I am wrong on that one...
But good result and hopefully keep it up.
96 Posted 08/12/2017 at 01:50:42
It's actually hard to believe how, and just as hard to understand why, things got to that sorry state.
Scarey, scarey stuff!
97 Posted 08/12/2017 at 02:13:34
I have always liked Lookman but felt he should have had a lot more game time than he has. If anything, I thought the senior players were mostly outshone by their younger counterparts.
Be interesting to see if any are included for Sunday; I'd have Lookman and Vlasic there in some capacity. I can't make my mind up about Klaassen... quite often, the game seems to pass him by, but there looks to be a decent player in there somewhere; it's taking a long time to emerge for a £25M player!
Sunday's encounter will obviously be a different kettle of fish, but at least confidence levels are high, which should help.
98 Posted 08/12/2017 at 03:32:55
By contrast, Feeney is a kid who couldn't keep his mouth shut all match. Constantly barking at the defence (mainly Besic, after yet another brain-dead decision) or just geeing up his team-mates. Not a surprise at all that when Mirallas got involved in his little spat towards the end it was Feeney who was straight in there. He should have been made captain last night, at least then we wouldn't be sick of seeing the likes of complete frauds like Schneiderlin or Williams wearing the band. They are lucky to wear the shirt.
Vlasic and Lookman showed what they can produce but there is still plenty of work to do on their game as too often they were choosing the wrong options. The potential they both have is amazing.
99 Posted 08/12/2017 at 06:14:28
After the debacle of the Southampton game, it's nothing short of a miracle, it's such a relief to have a management team who we can have a bit of faith in. I actually believe we can now go on and give a good account of ourselves on Sunday, something which was unthinkable a few weeks ago.
100 Posted 08/12/2017 at 06:29:13
But, that game last night really highlighted for me the total ineptitude of Ronald Koeman as a manager. He couldn't even set up a so-called first eleven to beat the minnows of the group and yet here we had a team of mostly youngsters going away and trouncing them 3-0.
Any club thinking of employing Koeman please note!
The lads did well last night. I am not going to knock any of the senior players. It was a team effort and a great result, despite the context of the game. I'm sure Allardyce will have watched the game and seen plenty of promise for the future. If only Koeman had shown similar faith in the younger players!
As someone has already asked though, how come the kids could play when we had a squad list for the Europa League and none of them were on it?
And why wasn't the Limassol player booked for simulation for his blatant dive over Mo Besic?
101 Posted 08/12/2017 at 06:32:15
The BBC state that for last night's game 'The average age of Everton's starting XI (23 years 15 days) was the youngest by an English club in Europe (excluding qualifiers) since their game against BATE Borisov in the same competition in December 2009 (22 years 319 days).'
EVERTON (4-5-1) Nash Coleman Hibbert (76' Mustafi) Duffy Bidwell Rodwell (8' Akpan) Forshaw Baxter Osman (81' Craig) Agard Yakubu. Subs not used: Howard Nsiala Garbutt McAleny.
Looking at the team from that game, we have lost many of the youngsters included in the squad that day, for a variety of reasons.
Mustafi, Duffy, Bidwell, Rodwell, Akpan, Forshaw, Craig, Agard, Nsiala, McAleny.
Garbutt still around. Baxter (returned).
Perhaps, with With David Unsworth in charge, the latest batch will fare better.
102 Posted 08/12/2017 at 06:33:07
Which beggars the question, wtf was Koeman doing with them?
It still really gets my hackles up, that he has put us back so many years, when we thought that we were on the new horizon, an investor at long last, and he not only destroys it, but gets rewarded for it too!
Brian, it has been a Tri-ang time for us all recently, but a platform for success has been expressed tonight, with several good points to signal well for the future!
103 Posted 08/12/2017 at 06:58:48
Good guess. It's the squad numbers of the 14 who played with an average shirt number of 38. Whatever happened to good old fashioned 1-11?
With the money we will be spending and the expectations of the coming years, these kids will have to be exceptional to become regulars in the team. Good luck lads.
104 Posted 08/12/2017 at 07:42:54
105 Posted 08/12/2017 at 07:47:31
106 Posted 08/12/2017 at 07:58:04
107 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:04:30
Nice to see Robles back in between the sticks and make some important stops, Lookman was very self-assured and looked mature beyond his years I so much hope we can keep hold of him Hornby one for the (not too distant) future, and well impressed with Feeney.
It was a shame some of the so-called senior members of the squad barely stepped up to the line although I thought Mirallas did have some decent moments near the start. It's a shame he gets so easily frustrated when things aren't going his way.
108 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:11:07
A good manager will generally keep things simple, whilst most coaches don't know the meaning of the word. Over-complicated bollocks usually results in what we've witnessed since the start of this season, and I'm glad we have gone back to simplicity.
It was great to see Everton attack from both flanks, and this has got to be the aim for the team now. Sigurdsson has got to play inside and we have got to get someone who can go past a man out-wide.
I'm not saying this should be done right away, but when you have got skill and speed on the flanks, it usually makes the team more balanced, and we have already gone from nearly capsizing to sailing on calm waters in the space of 10 days, but we have now just got to negotiate a heavy storm this weekend to really steady the ship.
109 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:19:57
110 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:28:11
A very encouraging performance by our talented youngsters.
111 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:28:29
The heavy storm that is forecast could help us. Heavy snow from 9am Sunday. Hoping for freezing cold and gale force winds to go with it. Let's see how the samba boys enjoy that.
On the subject of pace in the wide areas. It's a must for any modern team to have it, sooner we get it the better.
Onyekuru has got it but in the meantime there is a kid playing wide left for Celta Vigo who will be bought by a bigger team sooner rather than later. Well worth a look.
112 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:34:01
On a lighter note, great result. Sets the scene for Sunday.
113 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:42:31
114 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:45:57
I saw the weather forecast, John G, and although I would honestly play Liverpool every day of the week and twice on Sunday, I wouldn't mind us getting snowed in! I know every derby game is important, but it's got to be the FA Cup game which takes on the much greater significance for us blues right now.
115 Posted 08/12/2017 at 08:53:49
As far as Sunday is concerned, I have placed my usual tenner on Blues to triumph at odds of 10/1. My bookie tells me that the most common bet is RS to win by at least three goals. Just won't happen!
116 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:02:18
Mirallas, on the other hand consistently overdid his runs, losing possession and failing to pass. Vlasic was unselfish, a willing runner and could have had a tap-in when Lookman instead went for the hattrick shot. Robles was my Man of the Match, keeping us in it on several occasions.
Of those on show, I would think Lookman, Vlasic and Schneiderlin and of course Robles, will be the only ones near the bench on Sunday.
Incidentally, it was hard to guage Hornby's contribution, his link-up play was okay, but if he wants to become a first class player, he needs to stoke-up his fire and get up a proper head of steam. If he can, his stock will rise, he could be a model professional, and he might improve his station in life.
117 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:14:10
118 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:15:07
For all those posting them I wish your arl fellas would have jumped off at Edge Hill. 😁
119 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:24:25
120 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:32:30
The FA Cup game is much more important to us than the league game but it would be nice to see a good performance on Sunday.
I'd sit a solid back four very deep with Schneiderlin in front of them. I'd use Gana as a man to man-marker on Courtino too. My thinking is to restrict the RS of space in behind our back line and starve Courtino of space and time on the ball.
First job is to stop the RS as, let's have it right, they're on fire. Second job is to enable our strikers to get a couple of decent goal-scoring opportunities.
I'm going on a limb and calling it a 0-1 win to the Blues.
ps: We're 9/1 just to win with William Hill. 😁
121 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:37:59
Great to get the Allardyce reign off to two wins and two clean sheets in particular but far harder tests lie ahead in both the near and the distant future. Confidence is a valuable asset though.
122 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:56:34
I watched Mirallas closely and thought his overall energy and contribution lacking in edge as usual. It was summed up with a decent shot from him towards the end saved by their goalie and as it rebounded out Mirallas had stopped and was still watching the result of his effort, before reacting too lately to the fact that if he'd have stayed on his toes he'd have been onto the rebound. Sums him up always falling short imo.
He's had long enough and 5 managers can't all be wrong.
123 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:58:09
124 Posted 08/12/2017 at 09:59:09
I thought the same; Koeman has a lot to answer for.
127 Posted 08/12/2017 at 10:29:10
If Lookman can just learn to look up from time to time, he will become one hell of a player. I saw two occasions when a simple square pass would have resulted in a tap in. Having said that, he does give me cause for hope.
I thought Hornby was first class. He will surely help us pick up points in the future, his performance could signal the start of something big if he doesn't get shunted out on loan...
Okay, sorry, but all the best ones have gone. :(
128 Posted 08/12/2017 at 10:36:13
Great performance Sam will have a plan for the RS.
129 Posted 08/12/2017 at 10:38:39
See what winning creates???
130 Posted 08/12/2017 at 10:57:27
131 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:00:48
We were stood stock still, not offering a pass. There was no movement in attack, when players lost the ball they were walking back into defence, or a light jog at best. There was no ferocity to win the ball back.
We clearly lacked attacking movement, closing down, defensive cohesion, desire, and fitness. Which leads everyone to be able to question the coaching.
Arsene Wenger is one of the best coaches this country has ever seen. He coaches he players and develops their games. But when it comes to tactics he is extremely simplistic. He plays a very flexible system and allows players to roam from position freely, and to "express themselves", which results in them looking terrible in defence on occasion.
Complicated plans do not need to be complicated for the players. For example you can tell the left winger to run 3-5 set runs, ie. down the wing then cut in 10 yards at a right angle 10 yards from the box to receive the ball. You then work this by the winger running that drill 20 times a day for five days with a central midfielder being the one to do the pass. You can expand this drill slightly by making him run 5 yards from the left to receive a ball off the other central midfielder before playing the pass, so as to simulate the other midfielder having won the ball.
Just one example, but you can keep things very simple, and you run a few of these drills 100-200 times a month and it becomes imprinted on the players to move in one of a few ways once we win the ball, and so there is attacking movement, players like Rooney can look superstars with their passing because they only need to look up to 1 or 2 places and they will know exactly where their passing target will be.
Training is all about rehearsing set movements, be it in attack of defence. Koeman didn't do it. God knows what they actually got up to in training.
Martinez also didn't do much of it. For him it was all about passing drills, and close control. Lots of piggy in the middle stuff I'm told and trying to develop their short passing game and lots of 3 v 3s and 4 v 4s with the small goals to develop the game playing in tight spaces. This is all well and good but you need to rehearse movement too.
132 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:08:24
133 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:37:26
Harry came through the ranks with friends Tom Davies and Kieran Dowell and having seen them get some success, it's nice that he finally got the opportunity as well because as we saw last night, he'll put in a shift even in a position on the pitch which isn't his when needs dictate. I'm sure that willingness is why he won U18 Player of the Year a few years ago.
Also strikes me, on the evidence of last night, that until January when big Sam either dips into the market or registers Garbutt, Charsley and Martina are the only potential understudies to Baines at left-back.
134 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:41:12
Considering he is an attacking player, he put in a great performance and you wouldn't have thought he was out of position.
135 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:46:05
"What happened to the Europa League squad list, the one where Niasse was not named and therefore could not feature? Surely all these kids weren't on a squad list submitted in August?"
Under 21 players are automatically eligible and don't impact the total number of players on your list.
136 Posted 08/12/2017 at 11:55:27
137 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:02:23
Koeman was talking double Dutch to the players because it's obvious the players never understood what they were getting asked to do, whereas since Allardyce had his 5 minutes with the team before the West Ham game, then a team with more holes than “Kenwright's old shoes” have been replaced with one who look like they've been told to listen to that old Beatles classic 100/200 times, “I Want to Hold Your Hand”!
138 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:12:39
139 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:17:53
There's a reason that Guardiola is smashing everyone, and it's not just having the world's best players. They are the best coached team England has ever seen. Their movement is frightening and that is not spontaneous, it has all been rehearsed on the training pitch. The players run set runs to pull defences apart and create gaps for people to pass and run into. It's all planned.
Meanwhile, simplistic and tactically clueless coaches like Harry Redknapp can't win a game. Like it or not, it's the 21st Century now, and all teams are coached differently to the past. Sam Allardyce might have a simple message, but he employs varied and complicated tactics and that's evidenced by his use of Prozone (here he gets data on shape and movement which he works on relentlessly in training). Why do you think he works with 18 staff but Koeman only had 5? Koeman is the more simplistic of the two.
140 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:18:15
I too was pleased to see Charlsey get a game as he has just been improving year on year. I still think that age group is a bit 'golden' and we may see more make their debuts before long.
It is fair to say, unlike the game years ago against BATE where some of the kids looked out of their depth, this time around they all acquitted themselves really well. Including the sub Nathan Broadhead, a very different type of striker to Hornby but made an impact for the last 10 mins.
141 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:20:50
The conductor Tony?
142 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:42:44
Football, is a simple game, over complicated by too many people, and the fact that you use Guardiola and Wenger, shows me that you must agree too, because these are the exception rather than the rule?
When Wenger speaks, Steve, I listen; not so much Pep, because I get less interested in this type of stuff with every passing year, but Arsene, for all his brilliance, has never been able to recreate a team as good as the one he had, when he was left with George Graham's back four?
Although it pains me to say it, Liverpool, are an exceptional attacking team, and I'm praying that Klopp can't find a system that stops them being brittle in defence, whilst his formation continues to expose them.
"Football is a simple game" that is the only thing I want Everton's new coaching staff to continue to drill into our team!
143 Posted 08/12/2017 at 12:59:46
Surely, in any walk of life, when you're training for something, it's constant repetition until it becomes second nature. That's when the team starts clicking as a team. It's the organisation of 11 separate players, who are so well drilled, through repetition, that things become second nature, the moves become more fluid, and the ball starts doing more of the work. Then the players start excelling.
With the kind of organisation that Allardyce is reputed to bring, I believe it should bring out skills, particularly of the 'ball players' like Ross (if he stays), contrary to the stereotype of him as being all hoof-ball.
144 Posted 08/12/2017 at 13:06:35
Out of interest, do you know all of this stuff as a fact or are you going by the evidence of what you see on the pitch?
145 Posted 08/12/2017 at 13:08:14
Heavy snow forecast.
Sam weaves his magic again!
146 Posted 08/12/2017 at 13:11:13
Think about other sports. Football is all about the ball and how you manipulate the ball into the goal. Other sports have similar objectives but limitations on the manipulation, such as Rugby and American Football, or Baseball and Cricket. This means the actions you can do in those sports are less and so they are in fact less complicated.
The very fact that the Americans make a sport similar to the very simple game of rugby look so complicated should give you nightmares of what football will definitely become in the future.
The coaches who keep the game simple are not winning trophies. Look at the last winners of the Premier League: Conte, Raneiri, Mourinho, Pellegrini, Ferguson.
Ferguson himself was an old school manager. Certainly, one of your "keep it simple" guys. But the Ferguson of 2013 and the Ferguson of 1993 were very different managers. By 2013 he was largely absent from the training pitch, Phelan was effectively the man in charge of training. He had tacticians in his backroom like Queiroz and relied on a succession of new blood and new ideas to keep things fresh. He may not have pioneered any new tactics, but he certainly employed what was effective, and so utilised his coaches to employ complicated tactics in his later years.
Ranieri is a very tactical coach. The Tinkerman was not called so for nothing. But I will concede that his greatest triumph came with the least of his tinkering and the more basic of his tactics. But watch highlights of any Leicester game to see how he was changing things constantly mid-match to see that his 4-4-2 was not simple, especially the role Okazaki played, which really stretched the formation out of 4-4-2 into a 4-5-1.
Conte is an ultra-complicated guy, as most Italian coaches are. Nothing about his team is simple. But he certainly makes it simple for them.
Pellegrini is a great coach, a real pioneer. One of the few football men with a university degree, which earned him the nickname: the Engineer. He made complicated look simple, but complicated it was.
Mourinho is probably the most complicated of the lot. A simple coach does not produce the detailed dossiers on each team and each player for each game like he does, if he is keeping it simple.
The game you yearn for is long gone, Tony. The trick is to make it seem simple, to make the message simple, and to have as few instructions in the players' heads as possible.
Whilst the players looked confused under Koeman, I believe that was due to a lack of instructions, rather than being overloaded. If overloaded, they would be making runs and just not be spotted. They all stood stock still, both in attack and in defence.
147 Posted 08/12/2017 at 13:13:50
148 Posted 08/12/2017 at 14:02:20
You don't really know, you just go with what you believe, but it doesn't matter if Conte is the most complicated human being in the world, because what he did last season just showed him to be a top man, who is right in-tune with his profession.
He's been at Chelsea five minutes, they aren't doing that good, so what did he do? He looked at his squad and played a system that he thought would suit them, and look what happened? They won the Premier League, just 12 months after we had all the experts (who are 90% boring, jobs for the boys, types, filling up the believers with bullshit) telling us that 3 at the back doesn't work in England.
Steve, I don't yearn for any type of football mate, especially now you can confirm it's long gone? But Is the trick to trick the players into believing it's a simple game? Because you are going round in circles after saying it's a complicated game in the same post. Honest!
149 Posted 08/12/2017 at 14:12:56
You were making the point that football is essentially a simple game. I made the point that it is one of the more complicated games.
I used the example of Conte, because his tactics are very elaborate and complicated. I could go into detail here, but I believe that this should be my last post on the subject and so it will be.
Many teams in the Premier League have played a 3-man defence on the back of what he did last season, but all failed to grasp the most critical element (most notably for me, Ronald Koeman) and that is a defender, such as David Luiz who moves into midfield with the ball to play between attack and defence. John Stones is now doing this to great effect; without such a player, the 3-4-3 simply does not work.
This is just one example of the complexity of Conte's system and it is not the system to suit Chelsea; it is the system he played with Italy and the system he played at Juventus. He came into Chelsea and played the system Mourinho used until he could show the players that they had to switch to his system all the while, he was drilling and preparing his team to unleash the 3-4-3.
We can certainly agree that the complexities of systems and tactics do not need to be translated to nor should they confuse the players themselves.
150 Posted 08/12/2017 at 14:45:46
But that system might work less well against some teams than it does against others, so the manager has to have, in addition, a variation of that system that works better. This will depend on the opposition. In turn, there may be a need for another variation, and so on. Not only does it depend on the opposition, it may depend on how the opposition change their tactics during a game, so system variations may be needed during a game.
So, to me, football is simple by virtue of an understandable (simple) system, but also complicated by a need to have system variations depending on the opposition and the course of games. The teams with managers skilled enough to get the players to understand the variations, and organised enough to train them through repetition, and with players who can execute them, are the most successful.
Beyond that, football is not complicated.
151 Posted 08/12/2017 at 14:49:46
Asked how you stop Liverpool, he said: "We've just been installing some of the basics we believe in; team play and how we affect each other's game and live or die by our team work.
"What sort of areas do we want to try and expose?
Also expressed Concern over McCarthy's injury record.
152 Posted 08/12/2017 at 14:52:14
153 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:01:06
Steve, you obviously love the coaching side of the game, but other than Rugby, all the other sports you listed are a lot more stop-start than football, which should mean every team would have to practice a lot more set plays, a lot more repetition?
You say Man City's movement is not spontaneous, and it has all been rehearsed on the training ground. Fascinating stuff, I agree, but for all their possession and movement, the player who I've loved watching this season is De Bruyne, simply because of how early he does things. Spontaneity at its finest!
I think that life is full of contradictions, Steve; I've just pointed one out with regards to City, and I find debating with you can leave me feeling this way.
Anyone who makes things look simple, is what I love, Steve it's why I enjoy watching De Bruyne, and it's why I don't think the game I yearn for will ever completely disappear. Thank god for The Germans, I say!
154 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:06:34
James, he's clearly a seasoned pro in press conferences. Let's see if he remains so, when the going gets tough. Remember how well Martinez came across in the early days, or that breath of fresh air, Mr Koeman, but he transcended into "But okay, that's football" every press conference.
155 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:09:52
156 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:22:14
I think similar applies to great managers and great teams. The best ones have a recognisable system (and variations thereof), recognisable to someone like me (who wouldn't have a clue how to organise a team of footballers) and that not only look simple (to the likes of me) but are simple by virtue of them being easily understood by players and observers.
In contrast, struggling teams seem to have no system, certainly not a simple one that works. Like us under Koeman, we often seemed all over the place. Liverpool under Klopp, he has an effective attacking system (so they aren't struggling on that front) but doesn't seem to have an overall system to take them further (and they do struggle defensively), and he doesn't seem good at varying his attacking system, so when it goes wrong, they can't cope.
157 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:34:26
Answer: You can't. The spontaneity to play the counter-attack pass with the second or even third pass in mind can only come off the cuff.
158 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:47:19
Like anything, talent like that shows itself best when it's done on the basis of a good system. After all, people with such great individual skills (in any field) have developed them through practice and repetition that brings out their talent. Of course, it works less well (or not at all) if the talent isn't there. You need both talented players and good organisation.
159 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:48:43
160 Posted 08/12/2017 at 15:49:56
It only looks that way to you and me, John G! I think Guardiola, has produced an incredible formula when it comes to football, but it's the game that will always be off the cuff, more often than not.
161 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:04:03
Just watched Davies and Kenny on Sky Sports News: two young Scousers who are living the dream, and it was lovely to hear them talk about “winning”. The most important ingredient in the game, but it's also something our players have long forgotten how you go about doing it!
162 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:05:54
My point was that spontaneity has to be a big part of success. There are plenty of times in a game when off-the-cuff is required. How can you drill for counter-attack? You can't, as the situation will be different every time.
I have watched Barca live, both with Pep in charge and several times since. The genius is in the simplicity.
163 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:07:46
164 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:08:20
166 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:47:22
John G, this is gonna sound mad, but I don't even enjoy watching Barca that much mate!
167 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:54:25
Irish grandparent on his Mum's side. He does have Irish blood on his Dad's side (my side) but it's further back.
168 Posted 08/12/2017 at 16:56:48
I've seen a few people complain about Steve Ferns's tactical analysis lately... why? Clearly, some posters enjoy getting into the different approaches to the game.
Steve's been talking tactics, formations and selections for a long time now. You pretty much get from him what it says on the tin.
If it's not your bag, just do what you do when you are watching Match of the Day when the Red Shite come on – fast-forward.
You gorra let the analysts do their thing!
169 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:01:40
The training you do for this kind of stuff is playing 3v3s and 4v4s in small tight areas to improve touch, control and passing. They have tiny "goals" for you to pass into to score, which replicates trying to hit a longer pass with pace and accuracy for a Xavi or Iniesta to take control of.
They also do constant work on triangles. They do drills where it's 3v1 and they have to run up the pitch in a tight space passing it around the 1.
Guardiola went to the Bielsa school of pressing, different from Klopp, and it centres on closing off passing lanes rather than overwhelming the man in possession. Drills are done to work on cohesion in pressing and identifying where the passing lanes are and blocking them off. Also they do like to identify the player in the defence weakest on the ball and press the team to ensure that player gets on the ball.
And yes de Bruyne is a spontaneous player. Most definitely. I will not argue with that. But repetition of movement and rehearsal of movement in training can plan this spontaneity. This could be a drill where Jesus lines up on the left and makes a diagonal run to the centre forward position, Ageuro runs to the right wing, whilst Silva makes a run to the left wing, and so this movement ahead is planned and creates the space that de Bruyne is anticipating through the training to know that he has three potential passing options or a fourth option of running into vacated space, or a fifth option of shooting.
It's been at least 4 years (before Martinez) since I watched all the Guardiola and Bielsa training videos I could find, but they should still be there on youtube, but bear in mind they all have Spanish titles when searching.
The greatest complexity in tactics comes from the fact that Guardiola may set up in a basic tiki-taki formation, Whilst, Mourinho has the perfect system to counter it and completely nullify it. Guardiola sees this and so makes changes to get players to start running into different areas. Guardiola might have actually anticipated this and so he may simply indicate this by calling this tactic 2. And so Mourinho then has to decide on shifting his tactics again to try to counter it. And again this may be anticipated. This is where the tactical aspect can become complicated and like a game of chess. This is never more evident than a serie A match, and the best "chess master" of the last 10 years or so, is Conte.
170 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:06:22
Sorry Steve, by definition you can't do that.
We will have to agree to disagree in this one.
171 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:11:42
However, I am aware that very complex set plays are rehearsed to death by Rugby teams and it has become an essential part of the game. I wonder if the same is done on the training ground, but I suspect not by us, as even yesterday Sigurdsson was interviewed and he mentioned that they hadn't had any training sessions with Sam yet.
I see Liverpool's attack as being particularly off the cuff, with players willing to switch positions. I suppose that if your players are as skillful as these, then more options are always at your disposal.
Lukaku is the sort of player that would benefit from set routines...knowing when to make his run and knowing who was going to put in a cross, and from where. He was unlikely to drop a shoulder and nutmeg someone, creating his own opportunity, although his power did enable him to bustle a man out of the way.
In conclusion, the very best players may benefit from such coaching but they still have the ability to go off piste and do it any way they care to.
172 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:13:19
173 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:13:50
The new generation of players, like Dowell, Davies, Kenny etc, are the first generation of youngsters who have worked with this system since starting with the club as young boys. That is why Charsley can play at right-back, left-back, left-wing, right-wing and still perform.
Compare that with the generation in front of them Leighton Baines has been a great player and servant to the club but you could never move him across to the right side of the pitch to play, as he has no real ability with his right peg.
174 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:17:02
Contrast that to Everton. Mirallas loves to come in from the left, and then there is no-one on the left. Under Koeman we would have 3 or 4 stood (yes, literally stood) on top of each other and no-one moving at all.
If Rooney is in advanced position and drops, then someone from midfield (such as Tom Davies) should be going forward to fill that position. If Mirallas cuts in off the left, then Sanrdo could pull wide from a centre-forward position to occupy that role. Rooney could move forward to take a centre forward positon and so the movement would actually lead us to creating the space in tight areas where we have struggled to break down teams.
Instead, the player on the ball was running, and the rest stood like statues and watched.
175 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:20:49
But it is said that the English academies are producing very technical players, and they've lost that old fashioned British characteristic of determination and hard work, and being able to scrap it out in a League 2 style.
176 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:22:40
I don't agree Steve. But we can't to and fro due to the limit.
As previously advocated Steve.
177 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:24:41
So to a football simpleton like me who has watched football for 57 years but never seriously played it, your stuff is an education for me and really interesting.
178 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:31:37
I would love somebody to take Rooney's latest role on responsibly and give the team another dimension. Admittedly there are not many candidates but I don't see Rooney getting half the joy in midfield against the top 6 teams?
The flow of the game or incidents such as goals, cards, injuries can change tactics in an instant but responsibility has to continue for 90 mins. I can see Allardyce playing Calvert-Lewin wide to stretch the vermin and maybe Sigurdsson playing behind Rooney this time?
179 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:44:31
Don't know the name of the programme but what is evident is that the current crop are more technically gifted than many of the previous generations and as you state this is not just happening at Everton.
I live in Italy and many here are now looking enviously at how good the new generation of English players are, particularly after winning both the U20 and U17 World cups.
Given that Everton had 5 players in the U20 World Cup, I see a bright future if they learn how to cope in the real world of the Premier league (become hard as you mention). This season players like Calvert-Lewin, Kenny, Davies and Beningime have all tasted the real world of the Premier League and can only get better, as they all have the technical ability to be players at this grade.
Also get Dowell, Williams and Connolly back and see how much they have grown as men in the Championship (they have played nearly every minute at their loan clubs). The others are not always playing so much which maybe an indicator, maybe not.
There is a future of Everton born and bred football players ready to make the grade at Everton and not plow the lower leagues, like many of the past academy players.
180 Posted 08/12/2017 at 17:45:48
I wasted my own vocation in life, because I'm convinced I could learn any young kid to kick a ball with either foot.
It's all about balance, and you're weakest foot is actually your strongest leg, because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be comfortable standing on it whilst you struck the ball with the other foot!
Think about this long enough, and I'm sure it will make sense.
181 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:00:23
The way Ronaldo improved his technique and balance over the years has been a joy to watch. Confidence plays a big part but youngsters should take a good homework period on Ronaldo practice.
182 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:01:19
He said, I have identified the areas that need addressing, I won't pay for a player if I don't think he's worth it, I want to make the right choices for Everton, first and foremost, and I want to keep my job.
Not verbatim, but that is the gist of it.
I openly admit, that I wasn't too keen on Sam being appointed, but he is certainly winning me over. It goes to show that you should not believe the gossip that surrounded him prior to being appointed.
He certainly has come across as genuinely caring about the needs of the Club before his own. I can only hypothetically speculate what would have been, had he been appointed instead of Koeman, and where would we be?
Hope my my enthusiastic optimism is not blown to pieces on Sunday, but I won't change my opinion on one potential result, and hope we carry on the Resurrection.
Still, better late than never, as they say.
183 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:05:10
Someone is born more talented and creative than others, just as a footballer is born more talented and 'football creative' than others. They're identified as naturally (sometimes unusually) good in that area, then they're gradually trained in it, using the 'system' that has been developed up to then (usually by similarly talented predecessors) with their talent being channeled within that system. Particularly unusually talented and creative ones are labelled 'genius'. They eventually reach 'professional maturity', and show the technique they've developed within that system. The really good ones are particularly creative and spontaneous, but it's all influenced by how they developed within the system.
Rooney was born a genius, and the system that trained him helps bring that genius out to best effect.
184 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:11:26
Hi Steve , You say that the 6 comments limit has clearly gone, can you tell me when it was officially removed? I have been monitoring the situation closely, and have seen nothing to suggest that it has.
Without wishing to reignite the respect debate, I don't think that to criticise anyone for incorrect use of quotation marks, is conducive to good relations. I think that the most important thing is that the message is understood.
If I was to be on the end of such a remark, I'd feel that the person who directed it, was attempting to belittle me.
185 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:21:04
A mate and I were discussing Rooney and Ronaldo recently and we both thought Rooney was ahead of Ronaldo at 18 in terms of productivity and brain. Ronaldo left him for dead within 3 years.
The way he has looked after himself should be an official blueprint for youngsters. He's become more and more creative and spontaneous with his will to be the best.
I don't see that in many young players these days. Who has his commitment and desire?
186 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:24:54
187 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:27:55
The first quick release ball is often made so much easier by the guy making it knowing where his runners are going. This is most definitely practiced.
Spontaneity? Na you need that when facing a packed defence; to counter, you need good movement, pace and the ability to pass a ball... That us fucked!!!
188 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:28:17
189 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:49:07
The same thing can happen in a verbal or cyber exchange, and that's when we all get caught up in it, the result being that those of us who wish to contribute to any particular debate find ourselves restricted through no fault of our own. .
190 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:52:42
191 Posted 08/12/2017 at 18:58:19
True, very true.
Well summed up.
192 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:03:22
It may be a little before your time, and it may also be hypothetical, but do you think that today's coaching methods could have made Stanley Matthews and Tom Finney better players?
193 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:09:56
High intelligence and spontaneity at its best. If they practised that drill, would the coach tell him to play the pass to Amo or to Ablett?
194 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:15:02
It looks like the Alex Parker thread has run its race, so I'm going to do some work on Part Three.
195 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:33:12
Still, all's well that ends well
196 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:43:32
197 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:45:37
198 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:57:07
There's an Arsenal goal that stands out for me in similar fashion. Ashley Cole at Villa Park. Henry said ecstatically afterwards "That's the best team goal since I came to Arsenal."
We all know Wenger coaches teams to play quick intricate football but that goal had too many instances that couldn't be coached. Teaching and coaching are confused in football.
199 Posted 08/12/2017 at 19:57:43
Steve @169, can be interesting at times, but when he talks about 3 v 3s and 4 v 4s in this post, I think he gets it wrong when he says the small goals are to help the players replicate a longer pass?
I might have interpreted Steve wrong again, John, but the small goals are very difficult to score into, when you have a player standing in the middle of it, so I believe this is used so the ball gets squared across the goal from the bye-line, and it's so much harder to defend.
Barca and now Man City, score more five-a-side goals than anyone, and after what Steve explained in this post, then I believe this is the reason why.
Incidentally, John, I'm getting older myself, 48 today, haha, but when I played, this type of play was drummed into us on a daily basis, sometimes by a coach, but mainly because it was the only way to score. I say this and mention age, because I sometimes watch academy football, and whereas it was called a five-a-side goal in my day, the kids now call it a sweaty goal!
I say I love simplicity, so I know I'll always love a sweaty goal! It makes me laugh when I hear the kids talk about a sweaty mate!
200 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:30:03
Paul A. There is none so blind as them that don't want to see.
201 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:33:25
Then came Dave Thomas, who used to gallop down the wing before crossing for Latchford (usually) to score with his head.
football constantly changes, but the most dangerous teams will usually attack you from wide areas, and this is something I don't think will ever change?
202 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:35:36
Great goal Paul A.
203 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:42:21
Luckily Ablett's determination made something out of it. His tackle-come-cross will live long in the memory of many an Evertonian and gave Amo the pass he should have received a few seconds earlier... Fantastic goal, almost entirely down to Ablett's incredible desire.
I think Gerry Francis made the mistake of planning his game to defend against somebody who wasn't even playing... .Many a fool has done that.
204 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:46:41
He would probably agree with my view for Sunday's game. We have to stop Heighway getting the crosses in for Toshack or were goosed.
205 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:53:39
With that in mind.
206 Posted 08/12/2017 at 20:55:41
It used to get on my nerves when playing in midfield, all you could hear was "Get it wide, get it wide." I used to feel it took away too much of a player's individually... still do, but it won me over in the end though, because creating a two-on-one out wide is probably the only thing in football which is impossible to defend against.
207 Posted 08/12/2017 at 21:17:21
The ball ended up in the back of the net mate. It was the right option.
208 Posted 08/12/2017 at 23:53:26
I have always advocated getting the ball wide myself, I was taught it and preached it. I know it is a game of opinions, but I like to see the beautiful game played simply when your striker is unmarked in acres of space, you give it to him.
I have just watched it again and, as you say, given the space he had to put it into, it wasn't the best pass. Thankfully Ablett's fantastic will to get there created the chance anyway and the icing was on the cake.
Anders was one of my all-time favourites. He would have been my Man of the Match at Wembley too, but for me. He was just edged out by the young warrior who totally eclipsed a then, bordering on world class Mark Hughes.
209 Posted 09/12/2017 at 08:09:20
It's funny but I remember the Watford game more than any of our other cup finals, probably the joy of it being the first time I had ever seen my team win a trophy, but that semi-final against Spurs was one special day!
I thought our name was on the cup from the minute I came out of Ashton Gate, and sat in the car to hear us get Norwich at home in the next round, and I hope my kids/all our kids, get to see us win the cup for their first time next May.
210 Posted 09/12/2017 at 08:55:50
Rhino was outstanding in the final against Man Utd, MotM as you say.
But the Mark Hughes you describe as "a then bordering on world class" never played another game for Man Utd.
Sold 3 weeks later having scored 8 league goals that season.
Doesn't detract from Unsy's performance though.
211 Posted 09/12/2017 at 12:13:53
Rhino was just a kid, and he fought and beat him physically all afternoon. Those who were there will never allow him to be damned by faint praise.
212 Posted 09/12/2017 at 12:34:38
At the age of 32....
In the new spirit of us all being mates. I will give you an out. You could be saying he had been world class but was now only bordering on it? 😁
213 Posted 09/12/2017 at 13:28:29
(And it was also something that would have had every coach putting their fingers over their eyes with the sheer impudent tenacity of the finish!)
Maybe I shouldn't get in the middle of you two but I will try because I like you both, but fucken hell men, let's just get on the same side for the next 24 hrs, until we've played the other shower!
214 Posted 09/12/2017 at 13:56:12
Sparky was 31 when we played that final, a year older than the world class Messi... and a year younger than the world class Ronaldo.
215 Posted 09/12/2017 at 14:08:27
Tony, as always mate it's our beloved Blues who are important. Not the teasing we get into now and again.
A little laugh does no harm though.
216 Posted 10/12/2017 at 13:12:21
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