Everton unveil 11 key principles for stadium move

A firm on the said dock I know of ,was given their marching orders for the end of this year. They have (this month) just been given an extension now till 2020.

When will that Shyster Toad finally do one?

There's nothing about these principles that I disagree with. And I support them being clearly stated, so that they are there as a benchmark to build against.

Just imagine – "and next we're going live to the 2022 Merseyside derby... at the Durex stadium".

I happen to agree with Colin @3 though.

It has the distinct whiff of corporate bullshit. Strap on your boots!

Cut the Dale Carnegie School of Business fuckaboutery and start building the fucking thing already!

Whomever wrote this also took that class on how to appropriately tilt your hand slightly over to show "power" when shaking, how to never say, "the hard thing is..." but replace it with, "the challenging aspect of this...", and all that non-human horseshit that turns good hard working people into mindless corporate sheep.

Fuck, I hate this fluffy corporate crap!

STFU and start building. Jesus!

So, whether it emanates from L4 4EL or TW "regulars", fiddle faddle and flim flam get right up my nostrils. Same shite from a different outlet.

And 2020, 2021 as it's all happening.

Can't wait.

Plenty would come!

Agree, had so much of this BS thrown at me before. I like concrete plans (pun intended), evidence and real action, then I may get on-board and not be so cynical!

Like many corporate entities, what they say isn't wrong, but what in real terms does it mean!?

I worked in a company that was always going on about life/work balance whilst putting most on split shifts; most people lived away from the city as they couldn't afford to live in the centre, so had long commutes. Thus it was just lip service to give the impression they were actually working on the issue!

In my 4 years at the place things got no better, though they were promoting work/life balance all that time, even having specialists in it come in and talk to us! Not saying that that is the case here, but there is an element of procrastination in it!

They could have free tickets for anyone called Johnny!

On a lighter note, I always said, no matter where you go on holiday, or a day out somewhere in the UK, you are guaranteed to bump into another Evertonian.

Take it to its logical conclusion, then only people from Everton or the Walton area should follow Everton, and this is coming form someone who is born in Bootle, which isn't considered Liverpool by some!!

I have spent about 20 years away from Liverpool on and off, left altogether in 2001, although have been back for a while now awaiting my next adventure. Does that make me less scouse!!??

If you are born on a plane, where are you from? All a bit silly.

Plenty of working class fans traveled into the ground from other areas, notably North Wales – does that make them more of a fan, or less?????!!!!??? There are plenty of non-scouse' fans who could claim to be better fans than me!

I used to take the piss out of some Liverpool supporting Liverpool born friends back in the 80s by telling them I'd actually been to Anfield more times than them! And it was often true!

What would you all like? No Principles? No Planning? No funding? Crap site? No Vision? No legacy? No Accountability?

They have set the bar very high by announcing these Principles and I'm made up. They have a lot to live up to and thank god someone in the club has vision, pride and determination to do the right thing at last.

I can't wait for the design, I've got very high expectations indeed and these Principles support that view, but I'm happy to wait a little longer. Good things come to those that wait apparently, and we've been waiting a very very long time.

COYB

I think you are being a bit harsh there mate, I don't see a lot of moaning, but just some cynicism either from previous experiences with Everton, or knowing corporate techniques/corporate speak. what is being said is all very well, but it doesn't actually say anything of substance!

There are no concrete details for any of the principles or how they will be achieved for example! Take the transportation principle for example. Are any examples given!?

2) Less talk, more dig!

They are not intended to be solutions, just guide all decisions in coming to solutions to make sure they align with the vision and goals.

They are very effective at keeping everyone 'on track' and focussed to actually meet the vision by making it clear what the objectives are. If we applied these Principles to the Destination Kirkby fiasco, would any of it stood up to scrutiny? Not a cat-in-hell's chance.

This is good news!

Yes Rob, I get that and I also get where you are coming from and why you think that people are being 'miserable gits', which I like to think I am not, but might well be!

However, 1. Our Fortress - Everton's objective is to challenge for all honours and play European football every season — and the new home is key to delivering this ambition.

I mean really!!?? You can't see anything wrong with that being the opening principle to a further 10 principles!?

Shouldn't that be ingrained in the club and be a key principle even if we play in the park.

How about, there will be no restrictive views anywhere in the ground, plenty of legroom and no need to queue to get a drink for any more than five minutes, no matter what? A principle is wishy-washy a deliverable is accountable and can be challenged by the customer, ie, the fans who pay a shed load!

The people who take time to come out with this flannel are paid a shed load too!!!!

I get where you are coming from too, but there is a difference between Principles, Objectives and Requirements!

Principle - The Stadium has to act as a Fortress to ......

Objective - challenge for all honours and play European football every season

Requirements Definition -
1) No Restricted Views - Aligns with Fortress (tick)
2) Plenty of leg room - Have you been to the new Wembley (fail)
3) Food stall turn around < 5 mins - Keeps everyone in their seats until half time, no stampede to the food stores and back in time for 2nd half - (tick)

You see, it helps the decision making process to ensure requirements are prioritised that align with the Principles.

It's basically good business practices, especially when building a half billion pound new football ground for the next generations of Evertonians to benefit from. Embrace it, we've needed this kind of business acumen for 30 years and prayed for it, now we've got it!

A cornerstone of Moshiri's plans for the club. Trust in a very successful man who has pledged his acumen and money behind the club.

The con-artist behind that is still running Everton and we haven't even got to a design yet – let alone the funding.

Just saying like.

Or they could just get on and build the fucking thing.

What if that vote goes south?

Also, I'm all for the club looking after its supporters and EitC but we need to ditch 'The People's Club', as it's just small-time nonsense.

I look forward to their response and their change of underwear when the penny finally drops.

Over and out.

Ian (#35) – got your drift – it's fluff.

So my wife tells me anyway. I've never actually seen the film. Nothing personal – I just don't like Tom Cruise.

While I'm here, could we have two 'home ends' – one behind each goal and our away support placed up in the gods please?

Question: If the club had consulted no-one and just upped sticks from Goodison Park, I wonder what the response on here would be?

Just show us a bloody rough sketch on a match box, anything!! Until you do, it's all talk and hot air.

Ironically, we already only ever play there.

I'm not trying to persuade you that I am right or you are wrong as I think we both make valid points. I just feel that the principles lack substance and feel like a cheap throwaway PR exercise!

My opinion, maybe wrong, maybe right. I just hope we get the stadium started soon. You get a bit cynical when there has been loads of talk for decades, but no action. You get cynical when the Mayor talks about a ground in 2 years, back in 2016!

I just think if you are to release something in the press, put some meat on the bones! I look at the principles and nothing has been said. I get your distinctions Robbie, I really do, but why release principles when nothing has really been said.

I understand they act as a guide to the real actions, so why not include a little about them, at least to placate/inform the fans who'll be going to the stadium? They are superfluous to what people want to know imo! Happy for you to disagree! It isn't like we haven't had our fingers burnt on a number of occasions now, is it?

I have been around too much corporate BS in my time to really take this seriously! That's just the way it is for me. More action, less talk. The proof is in the pudding, more cliches etc etc!

Be knowable and accountable by your actions, not what you say!

The principles, although talk, are realistic for Everton guven our history. Could you imagine Southampton or Watford stating those principles and being taken seriously? I couldn't.

Because we've been the elite in the past, and played football of a quality that's probably the equivalent of City's these days, we are always taken very seriously. I think that's why some of the media is biased, because of our past status and distinct possibility of us threatening the current elite of Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea and being better than the likes of Liverpool. We just need the money, to add to the passion and size of support we have, to complement the history.

History is important for a 'brand', and football is a business where brands mean something. So these 11 principles are very meaningful for Everton. Delivering on them is very feasible from a practical angle. It just needs the action to do it, and therefore dispel the scepticism we have.

Whether anything will be done with our wishes remain to be seen, but I want to believe in this stadium so I do.

It's all a bit too much like Milliband's "Ed Stone" for me.

A brief overview is offered in this link:

Everton Shares Stadium Principles

It explains the 11 principles that, apparently, were put together following a survey of thousands of Evertonians. Ergo, it represents a compilation of ideas by actual fans.

Robert Elstone is quoted as saying:

"To understand those views, we've aggregated what we've heard and what we've read to develop what we are calling our ‘Key Principles'. We'd like to share those principles, to test and amend - or refine them - and to use them to frame the ideas and expectations of our fans."

Isn't the original consultation with 1000s of fans and the acknowledgement that the 11 principles are open to being tested, amended or refined to match the 'ideas and expectations of our fans' a good thing..?

Next, there is a link to a brief introduction by Elstone on the:

New Stadium Key Principles

There are links on that page to further brief statements by Elstone and Mayor Joe Anderson:

Foreword And Introduction

In a box top right on that page, there are 11 further links, each one opening a new page giving greater detail on each principle.

Reading the different bullet points on each, I am guessing they are an 'aggregation' (as Elstone described it) of fans opinions already canvassed, mixed with the club's own ambitions and aims it wishes to achieve.

Then there is a link to a survey about the 11 principles fans (with customer numbers) can complete:

Survey

I 'get' the cynicism about the club and 'corporate speak' some have expressed in this thread. I 'get' the 'actions speak louder than words' charges. But if some posters had taken the time to follow the links and read the content, it may have tempered the more condemning comments. Because it strikes me that the 11 principles pretty much reflect the majority desire of most Evertonians.

Rather than attracting scorn and derision on this, I'm of the opinion the club merit some praise for being inclusive and including the fans in the process.

By going public like this the club has also effectively placed itself in a headlock. Because if they fail to match the 11 principles, or the whole project collapses, the club custodians have given supporters a very large stick to beat them with.

I for one am happy to see such transparent accountability.

Q 1 – 20 marks: Outline your proposal for a new stadium move on behalf of Everton Football Club.

The presentation is so juvenile (like the slide at the AGM which said: 'Submit business plan') that I don't imagine anyone with an ounce of common sense would be taken in by it.

A waste of time and money. Which we are champions at.

Someone I know has been working on the funding aspect of the stadium and has met with Moshiri about it. I know it's normal to assume the club will fuck this up because that's what has happened traditionally. But I actually think we'll pull this one off.

The 11 principles listed are all sensible in my opinion and good on the club for even publishing them in the first place.

Core principles.
1 It looks like a stadium fit to replace Goodison.
2 It's big and bold and ambitious enough.
3 It gets built.
4 By 2022?
5 Doesn't saddle us with too much debt (get the funding right).

However I do think some of the above criticisms are a little churlish. The club is making an effort to set out some of the thoughts underpinning the move, and is inviting comments and reactions.

One relevant element which may be missing though, is what happens to Goodison. There is all the history; people's ashes have been spread there etc. For example, someone needs to make sure it doesn't get turned into a car park for our illustrious neighbours.

I'm hopeful we will be a top team in the not so distant future but we're so far off it right now.

Just consider the words used in the page devoted to principal number 5, "An Iconic Landmark For Liverpool".

Therein it states: "We are committed to creating a spectacular extension of the City's world-famous waterfront. ... we will deliver a ground-breaking stadium that will become internationally recognised, envied and talked-about by all. Views from the stadium - and of the stadium - will be among the most captured and shared in the football world."

OK. Stop, Go back and read that paragraph again! If that's not being ambitious AND nailing your colours to the mast, I don't know what is.

So, I await sight of the architect's plans, and if they don't live up to the ambition expressed above then I'll become as cynical and miserable as the most cynical man on a wet Saturday afternoon after his team has just been thrashed 7:0. But in the meantime, I dream...

And now we go live to the Merseyside derby at the (Five times mate!) Stadium, sponsored by the Boston red socks! 😥😋

I think the plans for Goodison have already been aired at the a AGM, mate. I can't remember exactly what they were but they were in tune with the community etc.

I do think that it is a difficult and sensitive issue though, and if it isn't thought through will undoubtedly raise hackles.

Obvious answer is if, instead of hanging kopites, enough Anfield tourists were thrown into the dock, the water would be displaced and overflow, as shown by Archimedes (whoever he played for).

Four years from now, we will be moving in to our glorious new home, my sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game. I hope to God I am there with them, if not in person, my ghost will be there cheering with them.

This bloke Archimedes was from Sicily, so he probably played for Palermo. And he was in his bath-tub when he came up with this principle.

Perhaps we should build it on a hill?

Eddie, I always said Kensington (Kenny) would be a good place to build a new stadium. We would have to knock a few streets down but we'd be away from the water but we'd still have an Ocean View.

Also it's already gone a lot further than any other Stadium move attempt where glossy pictures were just that – no substance behind them.

This will happen.

Also interesting it talks about a Home End and a Main Stand looking into the pitch one way and towards the Mersey, Liverpool Waters and the City the other way. Bowl stadiums don't have ‘main stands' as such. I think the design is going to be something quite different.

As a distraction, has anybody seen that Mercedes stadium in America where the roof opens like a camera lens? That stadium is something else. It's amazing what construction techniques are out there now.

That Falcons stadium is certainly impressive – just don't tell Bill and Elstone that it cost $1.2 billion back in 2013!!

None of this means anything – we need a new stadium, so build one.

I never really paid much attention but I wonder if clubs like Arsenal& Spurs spouted all this tosh before they built theirs.

Probably.

http://mercedesbenzstadium.com/fly-through-mercedes-benz-stadium/

It would never work in Britain, different mentality. I was being light-hearted mate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

A club that didn't arrange cover for the left-back position when it was inundated with good left backs (all on loan or not signed up) does not give me confidence that it would have a clue on moving to Bramley-Moore.

I consider it horrendously dangerous – especially while Kenwright is at the helm.

The shortcut to success is just to appoint a good manager who has common sense; something we seem incapable of doing.

The proposed moves to Kings Dock and Kirkby should tell everyone that this club, which is run by thick people, cannot be trusted to deliver.

From what I have read so far, I was way off the mark.

There are a lot of "we will" statements which if they deliver on will certainly give Evertonians everywhere something to be proud of as well as being good news in general for the people of Liverpool.

Dave # 88 - "Four years from now, we will be moving in to our glorious new home, my sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game. sons, grandsons and great grandson will be there at the opening game". I think you could be right.

If so I will be able to keep my promise to Eric Myles to buy him a pint at the opening. You and your lads are invited. As they say here in Oz – "My shout!"

Up the Blues.

Mark my words, in years to come, this site will be full of folk moaning about the cold wind freezing their nuts off, the high balls disappearing into the squally Mersey and the crisp packets, gum wrappers etc being catapulted heavenwards in a vortex of detritus.

And those pesky gulls shitting on everyone and nicking the pies.

Eddie didn't diss the pesky gulls, they may be the only entertainment on offer.

As a fan of the Lucas Oil Stadium you bet ya I gave it my best opinion.

I was a bit disappointed with the option to have either 4 stands with "gaps" in the corners (I imagine akin to the Kirkby stadium design) or a continuous stadium; I think 4 stands but actually no gaps in the corners is better. Just my humble opinion.

Some good thought gone in to the questions. Hope everyone gives it a go! By the way, on stadium capacity, I said 65,000.

David (#151), there was an option for 4 stands with gaps, however, I plumped for filling in the corners and sticking the away fans in one of them. I also found myself answering 'a good range of reasonably-priced ale, quickly served' to about half a dozen questions.

I've gone with the traditional four sided stadium but with all four corners seated. Both ends to be "home ends", with the away fans stuck in one corner, a bit like old Trafford. I would still like to see the stands reaching right down as close as possible to the pitch.

One question was about what feature would you like at the new stadium? Mine would be that every night, 365 days a year, the stadium to be lit up in a striking blue, which can be seen from land, sea and air. Imagine ships sailing up the Mersey in the dark, or flights approaching Liverpool airport and the first thing they see is our new stadium.

There is nothing to argue about in these key principles. We spend a lot of time moaning the club has no long-term plan and, when they show one, it is shot down as fluff.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Anyone disagree with any particular principle?

My dad worked on the docks, he'd come home frozen so I think I do speak with some knowledge. I was told he even worked on the Bramley-Moore dock. Ah well...

But I read that Meis on Twitter a few months back questioned why we would want a (covered) roof!

Has anyone else put forward any specific features they would like seen on the new stadium?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=19fKPUzDyqs

What I would like to see incorporated as a major features of the design are as follows:

Dock drained off and walls reinforced so that the following could be achieved:-

● Playing surface sunk into dock 3 metres below quay level.
● Supported by columns and suspended slab.
● Two levels of car park below. (Columns and suspended slab)
● Eight sided stadium - two long sides, two shorter sides behind the goals, four wedge sides (one at each corner.
● Lower level of seating from pitch to quay level
● Three metre wide walkway all round the ground at quay level.
● Upper level of seating three metres above walkway.
● No upper level of seating on river short side – just a big retractable window like the Lucas Oil Stadium.
● The level at the short end could be used as a stage or temporary seating stands.
● Blue & white lattice work walls at the base of each seating level.
● Sixty thousand (60,000) seating capacity.

Link

They are great.

Coincidentally – Collingwood nickname is “The Pies”.

As I am shouting the “grog” and Dave is bringing the pies, the Tomato Sauce is your responsibility.

I'll lend you my watch so you can tell me the time.

I am a fan of the Lucas Oil stadium. I think it would look perfect if the original look was built with Blue Brick Columns that stand out from distance.

The Lucas Oil stadium in my opinion is a great shell design that could tweak to Everton standards.

The outside has an industrial look that fits the area and again with a few tweaks could be designed to fit in with the history and future around Bramley-Moore.

I wouldn't like to see the stadium totally repeated but the actual shape and material look like a great starting point for us to build a Colosseum that doesn't change the look of the area in a sore thumb fashion.

Just can't see Dan Meis getting away with plagiarising it.

But who knows.

He is just a face and name to me like everybody else and I think convincing the powers around the city is bigger than anything at this point. If that can be done? Dan Meis has to prove his introduction to our supporters is not just a story to drag people along.

The day we start seeing his work put into practice I will start feeling excited. Until then, the 11 slouches we put our faith in are more of a worry.

I have got to be honest here, watching a poor team in a lovely stadium is never going to excite me.

Only when I see action rather than inaction will I believe that a new stadium is going to be built.