Allardyce demands workrate and attitude from fringe players

When the opposition has the ball try to get if off them and mark their players so it is difficult for them to pass to each other. At all costs, try to stop them getting the ball into your net.

The above should be done by 11 players who are physically fit and each playing in a specific position that suits their abilities.

Not a lot to this football coaching... lol!

His constant message is: it's not me, it's them.

He takes no responsibility. It is him. His tactics are archaic. His football is dreadful. And his teams can barely register an effort on goal.

The sooner he leaves, the better.

He picks the starting 11. He has to take some responsibility.

He talks absolute mince. He's getting more out of his depth by the week. He constantly sounds like he's been on the pints of wine.

Bill G sums it up for me. How soon can we move this fucking circus out of town?

If it's that easy, let's sack Sam and get any dickhead who will take the job and then sack him when he too discovers its the players.

Let's face facts – the good players are too old, the young players are not quite good enough and there are glaring holes in the squad e.g Left back.

I would love all the experts on here who are quick to form an opinion to have a day managing a football club. Do you honestly think Allardyce or any of the coaching staff set the team up to go out and play bad football?

Four managers in a row have failed to get a tune out of these players and he is right to identify the lack of mental strength. Brutal honesty is far preferable to constant bullshit, even to the players' ears.

More bile and bullshit, how can any of that ring true when Schneiderlin stinks the gaff yet is never dropped?

I've said it before on here and I'll say it again, Moyes is twice the manager Allardyce will ever be, if you want that kind of safety first manager.

What we are paying Allardyce for such abysmal return is highly disturbing (more than Pochettino at Spurs, ffs)!

Flair players will always test most managers' patience but what they can produce in a moment, others will never be able to produce in a season. The reliance on stats by the big man is also a concern; if the eleven players who start the game don't look fit enough, how on earth are the 'fringe' players going to be fit enough to take their place?

Everton FC need a manager who can motivate the current squad in order to secure enough points to retain its Premier League status and not another 'I'm not to blame for this mess' type who constantly blames the players for the situation we find ourselves in. Of course, the players bear much of the blame but having a boss who states publicly the shortcomings of particular elements of the squad doesn't help to breed the trust required to build team spirit.

Why Leighton Baines's comments which made Roberto Martinez angry still ring true at Everton today

If we take Leighton's observations from 2016 as true, then nothing has changed in the past two years, despite the massive turnover in playing staff. Is it the players who are to blame or is it the poor choice of managers by the board?

Whatever the answer to that question, it needs answering and quickly – else it will be another two years or more before we see an Everton 'team' in the true sense of the word.

Allardyce doesn't force players to pass poorly, to not run into space, to not put effort into tackles...

Fuck me, Leighton Baines even said there's a lack of chemistry or "something" there. Allardyce is an easy target. It's not all his fault, if any at all.

The play has gotten worse week by week with Allardyce in charge. So if he is not accountable for the negative then he also is not responsible for any positive, correct?

The best result and performance we had this season was beating West Ham and that had absolutely nothing to do with Sam Allardyce, other than he was in the stands watching the game. I am by no means saying that Unsworth should be our manager but what we have now doesn't seem any better.

His message is deflection, and the inconsistency is embedded. Very few players can hold their head up high this season.

Yet by common consent those who have performed poorly, full stop, continue to get sustained minutes on the pitch. Why?

Yet some who gave been more rarely seen than hen's teeth have barely a 90 minutes of game time between them.

Those who are consistently left out in his own words lack the ‘physicality' to handle the premier league.

Classic Allardyce; physicality over guile, craft and therefore zero entertainment.

Lookman, Sandro, Klaassen, Vlasic, Keane all fall in that category, and are castigated for not performing when Allardyce deigns to give them 45 mins in a losing cause, in other words no chance.

Yet Williams, Schneiderlin especially are big lads who offer nothing other than presence, get more minutes than on a regular effing phone plan, unlimited!

Still massively short term, ‘save my own arseism' from Sam. Thing is though lad, short-termism, if to be any kind of success needs results, without which you have nothing.

Plenty of Everton social media this week about our lack of game and how the weekend will be fun!?

Has there ever been a time when you've felt this badly about the club?

Phil Jagielka? Oumar Niasse? They're the only two fit players at the moment who played in those awful defeats at Leicester and Sunderland in the spring of 2016. Leighton Baines? James McCarthy? Ramiro Funes Mori? They also played then and also under Ronald Koeman but I find it hard to believe they've undermined three successive full-time managers, be it consciously or otherwise.

Is there something intangible festering at Finch Farm? Is there a 'don't give a toss, can't be arsed' syndrome like that accused of Schneiderlin and Mirallas recently that leeches out of the walls of the place?

That, for me, is where the "What about the players!?" argument falls down somewhat and also what keeps that nagging question lingering in our minds: What is the psychological problem holding successive squads back?

Put the wipers on and brush everything to one side and pool all the players together who have something about them, be they Under-23s or whatever. Leave all the known deadwood out, ie, Besic and Martina, even Schneiderlin et al and formulate a core of willing players who: (a) haven't had their heads turned, or (b) their phyces distorted by other people's wages, agents, ad infiniteum.

Then,use the remainder of the season and of course the whole of the pre-season (with very little breaks for hols) to literally boot-camp the keenest into some sort of working formula.

In my opinion, I think this must include Sandro, Klaassen and Lookman of course... and whoever else suits.

Rooney and Co (you know who they are) 2nd or 3rd tier subs. Any new additions (hopefully a left-back) are the cream on top.

Under the present woodrot / woodworm / "plane in a spiral dive" mode, plus apathy, and every symptomatic malaise to do with the Phsyce of sport competitiveness that seems to pervade our team (and club) at the moment, the likes of Guardiola wouldn't know where to fuckin' even start.

But trust me, people, someone has to.

Oh, and I will willingly put a 𧴜 into the pot for a plane with the logo: "Get The Fuck Out of Our Club Now, Kenwright!"

My 2 Cents.

Now I'm thinking no manager can, whoever it may be. There is no defensive leader. No left-back... and for me Seamus's return cannot come soon enough.

There is no authority too, in central midfield. Schneiderlin is a cowardly player, Gana is a worker ant. We need a Peter Reid or a Paul Bracewell.

If a player is frightened to take a chance, takes the safe option every time but compensates by training like fuck and running around a bit, then he will be just the man for Sam.

If you have a bit of guile and flair then you better be MotM when you get your one chance. This usual self serving pap from the coach demonstrates, again, his total lack of imagination. Even worse, it highlights the appalling lack of aspiration from the current custodians of our club.

That is the million dollar question.

We don't know whether it's Kenwright interfering in team selection/recruitment.

We don't know whether there is a wage discrimination issue in the squad.

We don't know whether promises were made and not kept.

Is it the mausoleum effect of the stadium?

Is it just a breakdown in confidence?

But what we do know is there are people being paid between 㿞k and 𧵎k a week who are not putting themselves out.

The problem was highlighted by something said by the 'expert' alongside the main commentator in the stream of the West Brom game I watched. I paraphrase...

"The problem is these guys know they are not going to go down, and they are not going to win anything. Their season is over. They have little to play for. They are going through the motions..."

They're all on contract. Win, lose, or draw they get paid. Why strive for the outside chance of a Europa League place when this season's experience was so shameful and chastening?

The players are expecting Sam to be gone before pre-season training next summer. Why bust a gut now?

While I don't think everyone is just going through the motions – Theo will give it a go, to try and make the World Cup squad, Tosun will try, as a newcomer, and of course Rooney loves the club (and sadly McCathy cared enough to get himself hurt horribly) – but how many of the others are going to bust a gut?

What for? For win bonuses – their salaries are probably beyond their own dreams – or for a European place (see above), or for professional pride? Just at the moment, collectively, I don't think they care enough, if at all.

I wish I had even an inkling of what is wrong because it's absolutely soul-destroying watching lacklustre, passionless performances again and again. It's driving me, as I'm sure it is you, mad with frustration and disappointment.

Now, 4 managers and the common denominator is?

Allardyce hasn't been able to improve their fitness, ability or attitude as far as I can see. He's got that in common with Koeman and Martinez in his last two seasons.

Manager? Players? Who knows who's at fault, but I, like Lyndon above, have long perceived that Finch Farm, where Kenwright employs his very own ex-player coaching "lads", may just be the most accommodating training grounds in the country as far as doing the minimum is concerned.

You aren't going to win physical battles with diddy men that we have.

Allardyce has big physical specimens – even last season, when he kept Palace up – grocks,] we don't possess.

How about we try scoring some goals and show some flair?????

What is the point of crapping on the players like this in public? It's not going to increase their value and it's not going to get him a job at Real Madrid.

I know that, the day after the Spurs debacle (Sunday), the first team squad were at Finch Farm for 8 am where they were made to watch the whole game and then had to train for 2½ to 3 hours while getting right bollockings throughout.

They then go out and turn in a shocking performance against West Brom.

What do you do? Shoot one of 'em and say "Worst player in next game gets the same?"

They didn't expect Martinez or Koeman to be gone. Didn't see them busting a gut for them either.

He's got an 18-month contract, he's only been here a month and he has steadied the heavily rocking ship. Okay, so we haven't suddenly started playing like Real Madrid or Barcelona or even Leicester City. But give the guy a chance. He's trying to get the best out of the players he's got and trying to get more work ethic from a few of the duds.

Who do you think is going to come in and do a better job? At the moment, we need stability. We need to stay in the Premier League and we need to support our manager.He's here to sort out the team, keep us away from the relegation places, and get a bit of confidence in the players.

Stop moaning and start supporting the players, the manager and the club.

We overpay mostly egotistical underachievers because that is what most Premier League clubs do. I am not at all clear why those players should not be held to strict account but there we go.

I hope that Allardyce does indeed prove to be the main source of our difficulties and that a whizzy new coach will put it all right. That's the most comfortable way of explaining things to ourselves.

In my view, that single action relegated Hull and finished Brown as a coach to be taken seriously.

I suspect that managing a Premier League side requires some nuance and subtlety. I cannot imagine Guardiola taking that approach. Likely he doesn't feel the need to play to the crowd by showing how tough he is.

Dunno if he was playing to the crowd. He WAS doing it at their place of work after all.

And if he doesn't give em down the banks for what most who saw it felt was "downing tools" against Spurs isn't that the green light to carry on as normal?

Imo, and it is only my opinion, the TV advert with Sean Dyche sums it up perfectly for me. "Minimum requirement is maximum effort."

Could any Everton player claim to have done that against Spurs, or West Brom for that matter?

I actually think it is about the players. Not only this bunch of wasters but successive squads over the last few years.

It may well be to do with the attitude at the Club, stemming from the boardroom to Finch Farm.

Kevin Ratcliffe wrote a good article today in the Echo about the players and I think there may be a lot of truth in it.

Blaming Allardyce for all our ills is an easy cop-out. No management deliberately go out to not pass to each other, not run etc etc.

Leighton Baines said a few years ago there was something not quite right at the Club and, in my opinio,n, nothing has changed.

Martinez, Koeman, Unsworth and now Allardyce have had and are having very similar problems with different players. Weird but true and God only knows the reason for it.

I remember the much maligned Moyes, he of little spending power, saying that before he bought a player in one of the main characteristics he looked at was would he be a good fit in the squad personality-wise. Maybe that's what we haven't done recently.

Team spirit, as we as Blues know all too well, goes a long way in getting a winning team together.

I don't know the answer and I don't know if it's something we can rectify but just blaming one man is, in my opinion, piss-poor.

Other mortals have to proceed with what you call nuance and subtlety, and what others might call doffing the cap to arrogant, cruising multi-millionaires.

It's never just one person's fault. To blame Allardyce is like blaming the bus driver for being late after being caught in a car crash en route. However, any driver earning ٢m a year should have known a shortcut.

But isn't he paid 6 million a year to get the present squad playing better, or did he say to the board I'll have a go but don't expect too much for that kind of money.

Is he brutally honest with Schneiderlin and Martina after every match saying you were crap, and you never took your chance so you won't be playing again?

Will he be brutally honest with himself and go to the owner and say he hasn't got the ability to do anything with the players he's got, so I'll resign without a massive payoff?

Allardyce might be a rubbish manager but he's as shrewd as a case full of arseholes, and if he talks long and loud enough about how it's everybody else's fault, people will listen.

The saddest thing about it is that a lot of ToffeeWebbers are agreeing with him.

But a manager is there to create a team spirit, yet Allardyce seems to be intent on destroying team spirit. He has stated Klaassen and Sandro can go. He has said that Rooney and Sigurdsson can't play in the same team. So that's 4 players he has alienated in the last couple of weeks.

Now he is suggesting that the fringe players aren't putting in a shift on the training ground. Again hardly building team spirit which seems sadly lacking at present.

His team selections are baffling, Bolasie out for a year with a very serious injury plays 40 minutes for the Under-23s and starts the next 3 games. But this week Allardyce admits he is not yet up to speed so why have you played him from the start in the last few games?

McCarthy again hardly played for a year again brings him back to start games. Vlasic hardly seen since Allardyce took over but out of the blue he starts against West Brom, and is substituted at half time. He has been playing Lennon ahead of Lookman and Vlasic but sells him this week to Burnley.

We had our best spell with Holgate and Williams as the centre-back pairing but again Allardyce decides to split them up.

So maybe we should sponsor Allardyce to keep his mouth shut for February. Now I am not saying it will improve our results but it will mean I won't have to listen to the nonsense he spouts.

Sam is telling it as it is . there are a number of players on the periphery and they need to be focused. Simple as – extrapolation further is ridiculous.

We need stability, we need consistency and we need Sam Allardyce and his team to bed in their processes and approaches.

The fitness levels will improve over the coming weeks and the team shape and professionalism will do as well.

Patience and persistence is required. Support all the players and the management team is the way to go and if they end up between 12th and 18th they will leave at the end of the season. If they make it to7th or 8th with good signs etc, they will be given the chance to continue to build and set up properly for next season.

But to act like Sandro, Klaassen, etc... aren't worthy of an opportunity, when virtually no one in the squad has performed consistently and guys like Schneiderlin keep getting picked, week-in and week-out... it's just complete hogwash.

Howard Kendall told him that while he has some good young players he needed a core team of scousers with the right attitude and willingness to fight or they would be relegated – hence Wardy & Peter Reid became the two central midfield players – and City stayed up. Shame those two are both 55+.

Unless we have a team full of players like Coleman, McCarthy, Gana – players who might not be the greatest, who will give their best in attitude, ability and effort in every game – we will struggle. That's the minimum. Next is the talent and ability to play at Premier League level.

Then the most important part, the management. A manager who can blend the players he has into a winning team, by carefully choosing the tactics and players to fit those tactics. A manager, who knows how to get the best out of his players. Who needs a bollocking? Who needs cajoling? Who needs the Martinez "You're a phenomenal player" etc ? Perfect blend of players and tactics = optimum performance. Players have to have faith in the manager as well. They hear the bluster of shape up or be shipped out, yet can see players like Schneiderlin under perform and still play.

Can see Lookman put in a shift in the cup and not seen since. If the players don't have the confidence in and 'like' the manager and see him as long-term, negotiating their next contract, they won't commit either.

Allardyce is right to demand the best from his players in terms of attitude and preparation. We the fans demand the same of Allardyce. Sadly we have been badly let down, not that I expected much from the appointment. He doesn't even come close to the standards he demands from his players. I did expect an Allardyce team would match the likes of Tottenham for effort.

I feel, as an American Evertonian, supporting the Blues from abroad, that the Goodison faithful can at times be overly critical of players. I think especially young lads, new players to the club, and foreign players are especially vulnerable to this audible and inescapable criticism.

I'm not saying this is unique to Everton but I do feel like we have "top tier club expectations" with "mid table players." Or put in a different way, we rush to judgement on players and managers when we should say "the jury is still out" – much like we do with Keane.

For me, the following players have been discarded too quickly:

Klaassen (had a decent start with an assist to Holgate in Europa League qualification, had a positive pass in him, overall he wasn't that bad)

Martina: does an okay job as a shoehorned left-back when he's a right-back (Can you expect anymore from him?)

Williams: A solid defender who has a mistake in him but also defends and puts in a shift ( I don't think the criticism affects him, by the way)

Barkley: I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the crowd affected him and he chose to leave his boyhood club

Someone I think deserves all the criticism they've received:

Schneiderlin: had a good start to his Everton career but has gone missing and doesn't seem to even be on the pitch half of the time.

I'm not trying to blame the fans, but I notice that many of our new signings have not worked out, and I think one factor why we are struggling as a team is that we put too high of expectations on young, new, and foreign players when we should let them develop, make mistakes and try to look at some of the positive contributions that they make.

The post above citing a culture of mediocrity nails it for me.

He has failed to inspire any response from the players and you can bet your bottom dollar that the players didn't appreciate him coming to the rescue, they could see what was coming.

The players don't believe in Allardyce and it is reflected on the pitch. He doesn't have the mental capacity to lift them to the standards required even for 7th place; it remains to be seen what he can scrape together in the remaining games of the season but I am expecting nothing less than "just enough".

He is a manager whose methods and time has passed and if thinks squeezing a bit more running and hoofing is going to cut it, then he is managing the wrong club. Everton supporters (in the main) know what the club of our stature (or former stature) requires, the football it wants to see and it is not coming from Sam Allardyce. If it was me in charge, I would swap him for a decent left back.

I get so irate with some of these barrack room lawyers spraying negative bile – consistently – whether it is a player or Martinez etc etc. Barkley, Lukaku, they all got the bile.

In a close ground like Goodison, when it goes quiet, you can hear the critical bombs.

Just to let you into the good side on this thing. It is when we have a team that is good enough, then we don't fear anyone and that is why this crowd has driven on Champions over the decades – which a Newcastle or even a Chelsea or a Spurs have never really achieved. Even Man City were way behind us till the money.

Everton FC has a Championship and caustic mentality – it certainly has a double-edged sword!

We take pride in this Nil Satis culture – but sometimes I wish the Nil Satis turned against the narks who damage some of our players and management.

I am not sure which bile-fueled fans you are referring to but I've watched some shite in my time and never heard a crowd boo honest endeavour – from Mark Pembridge to Joe-Max Moore to Count Straqula – always I heard the crowd cheer their fight.

This current lot are quite pathetic in all honesty, and if anyone suggests the fans of all people have somehow frightened them into stupor, then God help them in their careers.

Also, I reject the notion the fans somehow forced Barkley's hand in leaving the club, we may never know but I suspect it was the fat wedge being dangled by Chelsea that swung it.

Really?

I swear anybody defending our Manager must not have actually seen us play in the flesh while he's been in charge. I mean actually attended a game – home or away – and felt the atmosphere for themselves.

It's absolutely horrendous and Allardyce knows it. Did you see his face after Kenny's shot last week and the ironic cheers that followed?

Apparently though, he was the best available to us.

Do me a favour.

I don't know if he's right or wrong, and I don't much like this sort of approach by a manager, but the tendency among some on here, since some time in late November, is to go after the manager.

Ivan Pavlov would perhaps explain it well: "Ah, if only Unsworth had been given until Christmas!" – as in "Ah, if only Chamberlain had been given until El Alamein!''

My fellow American. From the above, I gather you've never been to a game in-person.

We're no different over here than in England or anywhere. The home team is ripped on by that team's supporters all the time. It's routine at Goodison? Why would Goodison be different than supporters of every club, in any sport.

ToffeeWeb over the top? All the time. A TW staple.

But actually at Goodison Park. Nah, don't buy that. The same there as anywhere in professional sports over here.

In the old days, you could hit them in the pocket... you had a basic wage, win bonus, crowd bonus – the more the team won, the more people came to see them. If they lost their 㿊,000 win bonus for poor performance, I think the penny(ies)... all 3 million of them... would soon drop... effort at least, might increase.

The sooner we can get rid of this so-called manager, the better.

Spot on – I couldn't have put it better myself. Seems like Allardyce is an easy target for most on here. Like I've been saying for many months, no manager in the world could get a tune out of the mess Koeman left.

Yes, honesty is a good thing but, when confidence is low, keep negative comments in house. A united front is needed now.

Allardyce is a dinosaur of a manager, has always been a dinosaur of a manager and was the last thing this club needed.

This team bar (with Lukaku & Barkley) finished 7th last year! Only now we are stronger in depth and have got a better keeper. But the manager doesn't have a gameplan to win us games. He can't manage attacking football, he has no clue how to do that.

Burnley were 7th up until this weekend! Do they have a better squad than us? No, they haven't, but they have a better manager.

We need to get rid of Allardyce fast, before he inflicts further damage to this great club.

Does "optimum" mean how high they can twat it or how far back in our own half they stand?

Still at least we've snapped up the players we deliberately need... oh wait. It's like he didn't look at what our players have been doing before arriving, and it's only now, at the end of a poor run, suddenly he's watched a few of the Koeman games... and has taken on his 'tough no nonsense' er, nonsense.

Please get shot of him. He's not galvanised the squad, just come in and got us playing poor teams as though they were Real or Barca.

Remember him sending Yaya Toure to the U-23s to get in shape or else. After two years of whining and getting fatter and fatter while his agent bitched to the press, Yaya buckled down. Agent silent.

Can't remember the player's name. One who arrived at Spurs the season Leicester won. Realized Pochettino's fitness program was voluntary: "If you don't get your ass in the gym under my fitness program, I assume you're volunteering to sit behind me and watch the games." The player got with the program.

Same player also stated that by the end of that season, the only club could hang with Spurs for 90-minute fitness was Bournemouth. Not sprinting Leicester.

God knows the paces Klopp puts the RS through.

And, of course, Moyes at Everton. The fittest of the fit.

We're stuck with Sam for a bit more. "Stuck" is accurate. That he didn't immediately, and by now won't, installed a Moyes-like boot-camp for the entire squad indicates an antique approach to the current game.

I don't have a quarrel with his comments today. He's right. Players are supposed to stay in tip-top shape so, when their chance comes, they're ready to go.

Moyes is gone. Not asking or wishing for him back. But if Bill had got his druthers and welcomed him back, I'd picture his first day walking out at Finch Farm with a drill-sergeant's hat on and a whistle in his mouth.

Guardiola
Klopp
Pochettino
Howe
Moyes

Whatever difference in managerial skill, they all understand the absolute necessity that peak fitness must be a given. And that given is the manager's job.

Not happening under Sam.< And it's the easiest thing for a manager to do!

One of the many whingers around me was having a go at Tosun 10 minutes in. Not just a cry of exasperation or a sigh but shouting at him because he considered that he was on the wrong side of the defender.

There is a constant stream of abuse shouted at players from people who are old enough to know much worse in a blue shirt. Goodison is not a great place to be now. Obviously that has a lot to do with the team but we have had much worse teams but with a much more positive atmosphere.

And I am afraid I don't agree with you re Barkley. I cannot imagine that anybody would not be affected by some of the crap I regularly heard directed at him.

Spurs
RS
Man City
Bournemouth
Leicester
Chelsea
Arsenal

Every player makes a whopping salary.

All those teams are flying.

Forget the money.

I have no argument contrary to what Sam said. It's a contracted-professional's responsibility to be ready to go at all times.

However, football players do have to be pressed to excel. No different than any other field; sport or no.

Allardyce appears to believe that has nothing to do with the manager.

So we suffer him a few more months. No choice.

Chris (#23)... "How many of the others are going to bust a gut?"

Most of 'em. I see total commitment and effort from Jags (ran 90 yards to make that equalizer possible against the RS), Kenny, Calvert-Lewin, Gana, Sigurdsson, Williams, Martina, Holgate, Davies... the list goes on and on. Only with Schneiderlin is lack of effort the problem, which makes it triply frustrating that Sam keeps selecting him.

The problems are many – tactics, lack of confidence, stupid mistakes, poor coaching and just a general lack of talent – but most of 'em are trying their best. Even the loud fat guy out front.

Kevin Ratcliffe in the Echo yesterday inferred that some of our leeches might be pissed off by getting less of our blood/money than others who've more recently been signed on. Both should know more than the average fan given their contacts and experience.

If Ratcliffe's right, it tells you all you need to know about the pathetic psychology of the "poorly-paid" ones on a mere 𧺬,000 pa / 㾶 grand a week minimum. Those towards the top of the pay-scale deserve even more derision for their performances.

More seriously, if Baines is right what was and is the cause of something long since "not being quite right"? I suggest he means people are at fault, not the way the grass is trimmed at Finch Farm or the shape of its car park.

That forces me to ponder who's been in charge, and still is effectively, and was for years before Moshiri took over, delivering consistent mediocrity to us fans as some sort of achievement whilst all the while enlarging the bank accounts of folks allegedly based somewhere in the Virgin Islands - those folk being 24 carat fuckers, of this club and way more besides, rather than virginal.

He and his minions at Finch Farm deserve the boot. They epitomise folk who "don't get Everton". They are spongers with a personal history that spells mediocrity of ambition and achievement.

Others who do "get Everton", winners such as Nev and Reidy who speak out on where we're going wrong, are ostracised by Kenwright, and that tells me all I need to know as to why we're not better progressing in the direction that our increasingly hapless billionaire aspires to.

I think people have gone mad on here, that is to say they have simply lost touch with reality. I've suffered this feeling in different contexts a lot over recent times, which probably means that the madness is in me.

Either way, time for my warm milk and night pills. Sweet dreams everyone.

My cap doffed, sir.

The thing is, some people go the match to vent, pay for it (a lot now) and feel it is their privilege come rain or shine. You'll never get rid of it, some people are just that way. However, I have to say, if you put a shift in at Everton, you are generally given (generally) the benefit of the doubt by the crowd. Remember Neville's tackle on Ronaldo!?

A lot of these players for a long time and under 4 managers just aren't putting a shift in, the crowd sees it, pays a lot to see it and thus they get pissed off and are either silent or vocal. Allardyce has inherited this.

At the moment I am neither pro or anti-Allardyce, but he and 4 other managers have had this problem, 4 very different managers in their approach, personality and outlook. What does that tell you?

Yip!

If he said nothing he'd be called uncommunicative.

In honesty, Andy, I've not been to Goodison in years but not heard unwarranted 'bile' at any away games so far this season.

I find booing at boxing matches very distasteful (at the fighters, not decision) as you can bet your bottom dollar that those who are booing have never been in the ring!

Give the prize to Don.

Moshiri is the problem...?

Since then, when he's had a week in between matches to work with the team, the football has gotten even worse. It really was only at the end of Unsworth's time and the first few games in charge that we did anything.

Maybe I was wrong about Unsworth being able to get the team going, because Allardyce has brought them to a grinding halt.

Any manager that plays Schneiderlin or Sigurdsson on the left doesn't know what they're doing.

In the summer, we need to go after proven world class managers and hope one of them comes to us.

There is something very rotten at the core of this club and all evidence would suggest that it is something that was there when Moyes left the club and it is something that is still on the books when Allardyce took over the club. It is plainly not the manager and I seriously doubt it is something at the board level.

The only thing left is coaching personnel and the few remaining senior players. We need to clean house. This nonsense has gone on for much too long.

Schmeichel
Amartey
Dragovic
Maguire
Chilwell
Mahrez
Ndidi
James
Albrighton
Okazaki <> Gray at 65' minutes
Vardy <> Adrien Silva at 89' minutes

If you were Sam Allardyce and could have your pick of any of those players to swap with any of our potential starting eleven for our game against them next week, what would the two teams look like?

For example would you swap Schmeichel for Pickford. Try it – it's an interesting exercise.

Completely untrue that we were boring and aging under Moyes. At the end of his tenure, we were playing very good football and had a well balanced side. Fellaini in the middle, Baines was in his prime and we had Coleman emerging, Distin and Jagielka forming one of the best defensive partnerships with Heitinga recently being voted player of the year.

We had Pienaar partnering Baines on the left and Mirallas was an attacking threat. The only thing that side was really lacking was a quality striker. But we were in no way boring.

And to say we were aging when Baines, Coleman and Jagielka were in the team, 5 years ago, and they are still our regular starters is simply false. Now, they're aging. Then, they were in their prime or emerging. He also had Stones waiting in the wings.

We have had three full time managers since Moyes left and they have all been unable to inspire... No matter who has played.

Goodison has been become ever quieter since the faithful realised Roberto had an illusion rather than a dream. Its been like a morgue for every single game Allardyce and Koeman have been in charge of this season. What a pair of charmless fuckers... It's no coincidence that the faithful found their voices and raised the roof in the only two games these two had nothing to do with.

Those claiming the manager "doesn't send his players out to pass poorly" should maybe start to think about the fact that he bollocks the living daylight out of them if they try to play in their own half... but sets them up to ensure that they hardly ever get out of it.

The guy sends his players out to spoil every single game... then blames them for not playing... It amazes me that people are actually trying to excuse that.

We occasionally turned it on but most games saw us registering our first corner or shot on target at about the 70th minute. Usually the time we made our first sub too regardless of the match situation.

You're talking about his early years, not the latter. In his latter years, when he had Arteta and Pienaar and Baines and Fellaini, we played some good football. We were balanced but we played passing football, always defensively strong but we had attacking ability.

He would go into matches against the big boys in a defensive manner, which I hated, but not against the likes of West Brom. Sadly he's light years ahead of Allardyce as a manager. We'll never know what he could have done with money, maybe nothing. But I'd take him over Allardyce every day.

But don't confuse that with me wanting Moyes. We should be demanding much better.

I've always admired Allardyce for his straight-talking attitude though, which means it's a shame he's now Everton manager because, at some point he'll fuck it all up and I'll have to dislike him. Such is the nature of being afflicted with football fandom.

I didn't mind his pragmatic approach when he was at Bolton et al – now he's here, it's all starting to smell a bit iffy.

The overwhelming consensus on Schneiderlin is that he is gutless, doesn't work hard and generally does f'all in every single game but still gets picked means that Allardyce is spouting muck. I have spent time watching Schneiderlin during every game to check the criticism is justified and by God it is! He sprints slower than I walk and I'm fat, no passion, no bust a gut to cover the defence, no nothing.

Lowest ebb in many a year supporting our club, the growing apathy I have is worrisome...

My question is, if it's all so relevant, how come he's never won anything in any league, to the best of my knowledge?

I'm open to correction, incidentally!

However, at Palace he won 3 points against each of Arsenal, Chelsea and the RS last season to save them from the drop.

Depending on your perspective, that was quite an achievement on his part after not winning any of his first seven games. He did something similar with Sunderland the year before.

In my opinion, there were his credentials for being given an 18-month contract by Moshiri.

As individuals we can choose to back Sam Allardyce or not back him but if we maintain our Premier League status he will have achieved what Moshiri appointed him for.

How he achieves it will be the deciding factor as to whether he sees out his 18-month contract.

The club takes the risk on the transfer fees and the players are picking up their wages regardless of their performances.

The ones who may need to force their way into international teams may have an extra incentive, but those who are too old or overlooked find themselves in a mid-table side, most likely clear of relegation and lack the drive and determination of the top players playing for silverware or desperately trying to stay in the big money of the Premier League.

If the combination of Allardyce, Shakespeare and Lee can't get this lot performing, with all of their combined knowledge, then I think it is down to the players.

I am afraid that, with Kenwright as chairman and this current set of players, we will not be changing anything soon. I deliberately left out the manager not because I am a Sam fan but because I don't think any manager that Everton could attract would make too much difference.

We are just going round and round in circles and that points to no plan and leadership from the top.

I wonder if the fans of other clubs are as demanding as Evertonians? We want everything today? Today has been a long-time coming and it could be a few years before we all get to see it. Being patient when the club has little money is one thing, standing by and watching as it wastes shed-loads on players it didn't need or couldn't manage to gel is another.

So, in that respect, you are correct, the people running the club still have a penchant for making errors – only these days they are more expensive and will take longer for the club to recover from.

Allardyce is in managerial charge at the moment but this is only the latest version of a familiar story. A story which many other clubs know also. I notice, incidentally, that Lampard is worried about Chelsea being left behind by the Manchester clubs.

Yet, although the present manager cant be held responsible for the poor transfers he inherited he has bought 2 more players that may prove expensive acquisitions if their contributions are short lived or not valuable enough.

In all, Everton don't have a quality squad to choose from for match days but a load of misfits yet not ready to prove themselves. It is just proving to be another season wasted for Everton fans once again.

2nd half, kick it <-- this way... got it lads? Right off you go.

The supporters are still the same ones that have been going the game for years, no glory hunters just honest to goodness Evertonians. Some like me are old enough to have seen us win leagues and cups, but I have the utmost respect for the younger fans who have seen no success, yet turn up week after week.

It's very easy to follow teams that are chasing the trophies, but much much harder to follow a team that aren't winning trophies. So for some to come on here and castigate fellow match going fans, claiming the atmosphere is toxic at Goodison. What is being served up over the past 12 months its an absolute miracle that the club post sell out signs for practically every home game.

So the only people who carry no blame whatsoever are the loyal match going fans. So let's stop moaning about the atmosphere and instead ask why its so bad at times and who is to blame. But it's not us match going fans I can assure you. I have never booed or left a game early but there have been times when I have been sorely tempted.

Everton today just have to many 30+ players on the books with no legs and heart. We have to many legacies on our backroom staff. And we have a terrible record of off-the-field problems with our players. Gibson, Rooney, Pienaar, Barkley, Niasse – just of the top of my head have all been in scrapes with the law. This would have you think that there is a culture of partying and indiscipline at this club.

We need to shake things up at every level even down to the pie man. We have to expect a higher standard from everyone who picks up an Everton cheque.

You might consider an article with Colin Harvey recently who considers himself a failure at Everton because he never won anything.

Whilst too close to a club he loved to be objective about his time as manager, Harvey's sentiment is not lost on me.

Yet Allardyce's achievements in the game are but a speck on the moon.

The common denominator in the last 3 full time managers, they were all lukewarm appointments, and very much mediocre bordering on suicidal. Yes, unbelievably the board can get three managers wrong.

Until we embrace the Director of Football model fully by ditching Walsh and finding an appropriate successor who shapes the football at the club, the board will continue to fumble in the dark. Let's get it right – no-one on that board has any expertise in recruitment and its always felt amateurish.

The model is key to a better appointment. We should stick to a style and attract a coach, not a manager, then the systematic failures to date at a ‘half-arsed' attempt to use the model will wrinkle out.

The only reason not to remove Allardyce right now is potentially destabilising effect it might have. This is the period of the long goodbye for Sam.

So all those great players that went to Southampton from Celtic, that Moyes wanted, who were about £10 million each (one of them just sold recently for £75 million,) were way beyond his budget.

There hasn't been much enjoyment or anything to cheer at Goodison Park the last couple of seasons and yet they turn up in their thousands with nothing more than hope that the team will put on a decent and worthwhile performance.

I don't boo myself but understand perfectly well why the fans do, what's a few boos? To be honest, no matter how many times the players get booed off at half-time or full-time, it's like water off a duck's back because they do little or nothing to try and improve the situation.

The ground will be near to full on Wednesday night; maybe if it was half-empty, those in power might try and change the performances.

Players developed partnerships like Baines and Pienaar – “Bainaar”.

Arteta complimented Tim Cahill well, then Fellaini came in and made a name for himself with some unconventional but ultimately productive performances that produced goals, a threat to opponents and an overall awkwardness to mark.

Saha, Yakubu and for a short while Jelavic added some firepower that always ensured a fair if not fantastic goal return .

It appears the more money Everton have had over the last 2 years they have not learnt any lessons; Allardyce has spoken of the mistakes last summer in buying players from abroad with no experience of English football but the first thing he does is spend £27 million on a 26-year-old that's never played the British game!?

We appear to nowadays just throw good money after bad in the hope that some kind of football team will develop but it's quickly getting nowhere and it's not even helped us stand still, we have gone considerably backwards.

Some say the lacklustre players, some say the hoof ball manager or the comedy double-act Kenwright & Moshiri are the blame for this downward spiral.

It's neither of them. It's the fans for having expectations, haha! If we didn't give a shit, we'd be happy with what's being served up.

As you rightly say ,the ground will be full again on Wednesday because, despite the awful football, we are Evertonians and we always turn out in large numbers.

I was saying the other day whoever is in charge next season I will have renewed my season ticket before I know who will be our manager. I just hope the board don't view large numbers renewing their season tickets as support for this manager.

A football match is played by two teams, with each allowed no more than 11 players on the field at any one time, one of whom is a goalkeeper.

A match is played in two 45-minute halves.

The game begins with the toss of a coin, and the winning captain decides which goal to defend or to take the first kick off.

All players must use their feet, head or chest to play the ball. Only the goalkeeper is allowed to use their hands, and only within their designated penalty area.

The aim of the game is to score a goal, which is achieved by kicking or heading the ball into the opposition team's goal.

If the ball touches or crosses the side line, it is thrown back in by the team that was not the last to touch the ball.

The game is controlled by a central referee, and two linesmen. They award free kicks and penalties when rules are broken. For continual breaking of rules or for a bad foul, the player may be sent off.

Not that it particularly matters but this is the kind of comment that gets bandied around TW every now and again and I simply can't relate on any level.

Moyes was at the club for years and the team morphed to suit the players at his disposal. But Cahill, Arteta, Osman, Pienaar and Baines; all "boring as hell"??

Christ alive, to make that kind of comment I wonder how you could possibly describe what we have become, when you set the boring bar at consistent top 7 finishes and forays into Europe. Perhaps the current goals against column titillates the masochist in you?

I can recall saying that, at times, Moyes served up some scintillating football. Circumstances probably dictated that it wasn't often enough but there was stuff to admire during his reign.

Not much chance of winning against the Foxes come Wednesday with their speed against Everton's slow and porous defence.

You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear and he hasn't made enough signings to show improvement will be made by this squad.

Never gonna win the league, and never gonna get relegated, then surely your teams best bet is to try and win a cup?

One cup final in eleven years and he was clapped out of Goodison Park? If people think he did a great job, fine, but the only way the same people can clap his bedroom partner as well, is if they are happy to see what Everton Football Club have become.

They say Kenwright saved us, but the only decade we have never won a trophy, is during the saviours reign!

I don't believe it when we assume players don't play to win. Once the kick off whistle goes I guarantee not one player of the 22 on the pitch are thinking about their retirement fund. playing football isn't like that. Its not abstract and reflective; it is immediate and in the moment.

Something rotten in the state of Goodison could be a specific or a collection of things – call it chemistry or what, but there is something very upsetting about the last few seasons. Even in Roberto's the collapse in the final few games which effectively threw away a secure 4th place had a 'here we go again' feel about it.

I think we would be incredibly lucky if it were 'one thing' and we would be even luckier if we could identify it, isolate it, treat it and move on. There are some common themes however which are undoing the progress of Everton and some show signs of history repeating itself, which is a weirdly common phenomenon.

We just seem to be getting ahead when:- Hyssel, Collina, financial fair play...

We just seem to be getting our team together when serious long term injuries to key players get thrown into the mix, Barkley, Oviedo, Coleman, McCarthey, Funes Mori,

We just seem to be getting to grips with Liverpool and they are rescued from collapse by an aggressive American takeover which has not shied away from some big decisions unlike our dithering board.

There is a root and branch seismic shift required in how the Club does its business, but from what to what exactly? I haven't a clue. But one constant is the lack of dynamism of the board which has been omnipresent for years.

The most disturbing thing I have heard this season was Unsy's open-hearted statement that he talks with the Chairman 3 - 4 times a day. What on earth is the manager talking to the Chairman about to warrant that level of involvement? From that end of the spectrum to the opposite, we have Schneiderlin playing when he really should be 'rested' and Cuco as a full back but on the wrong side of the pitch!

Was Koeman really as bad as we (myself included) think he was, or was he totally frustrated at what was going on behind the scenes? Remember his public plea for the board to get off their arse and bring Schneiderlin in, and how good he was at the start of his Everton playing career?

If there is no real system in place, or if the one that is is too rigid, then this will percolate onto the pitch eventually. If and when a new manager comes in he must be given every support, but at the same time the Club hierarchy must take a long hard look at itself to assess where it is has gone wrong and how it can stop continuing to do so.

If Kenwright hadn't been there, in all likelihood the other three would have taken over and the one with the money, Paul Gregg would have been chairman.

Twenty years of Kenwright is twenty years too many, in my opinion.

Just a bunch of ordinary guys playing 4-4-2 and showing no nerves whatsoever... just playing to win and supporting each other. And if one of them hadn't forgotten to cover the world's best striker on a late corner, they'd have won, and deservedly so.

I had the same thoughts as you – wistfully wondering where that spirit has gone with our club... and how the fuck we get it back.

You're one of the folks I would most like to meet on my next trip over.

He's painted as the superhero, the man who defeated the dark side (Johnson) and the romantic story of him taking over his beloved Blues.

The reality is something very different though. Since 1999 we are arguably along with Aston Villa the only regular top flight “Big Club” that has never played in the Champions League Groups “proper”. Whilst clubs like Leeds, Newcastle, Blackburn, even Leicester have all tasted the big time.

Since 99, we have had one meagre Cup Final. No victory at Anfield since Bily Blue has been here. An atrocious Merseyside derby record.

The only thing we have done to the stadium is a few licks of paint and murals put up, other clubs have built both stadiums and stands since then.

Funny really how the Kenwright era will actually be remembered for achieving very little other than "punching above our weight" during the David Moyes years!!

We pay shit loads on Tosun who has no experience of the British game. To me, we keep making the same mistakes as last summer in the transfer market, when signing a proven Premier League performer for cheaper might have suited us better.

Those same players were at West Brom and doing nothing under Allardyce's dinosaur brother-in-arms, Pulis. It's only been since Pardew came in and said "To hell with this ultra-defensive shite football, we're going to put two men up top and offer our own threat in attack," that Rodriguez is now back to being a danger man.

Pardew has taken over the same team that Pulis had and has them getting better each week. Similar to what Hodgson has done with Palace.

Anyone who gets Newcastle 5th and Crystal Palace to a Cup Final deserves a bit more acknowledgment.

I'm not making any excuses for Allardyce because it's no good being good without the ball, if you are not much better when you get the bloody thing, which is what the ball seems to be for too many Everton players right now.

For example, I can't even imagine what Liam Miller and his family are going through right now with more false reports of his death. He was playing minor-league footy here in the US when he was diagnosed. Imagine being only 36 and world-class fit one day and pretty much terminal the next. Compared to something like that, my little adventure is nothing.

West Brom, another small team that proved tonight beating or challenging the top six sides is very doable; sadly, though too many Evertonians are happy to make the same old lame excuse that “we aren't expected to beat the big boys”.

Congratulations, West Brom, on showing Everton how simple it is to win at Anfield in the modern era.

Stevie Mac said it was a definite pen. I thought Salah dived. Later on when Ben Foster clearly got two gloves on the ball the same pundit said he hadn't touched it, and he reiterated his opinion after the slo-mo replay which clearly showed the keeper make contact with the ball.

I wonder if Andre Mariner could hear the pundit's comments on his live feed of the game? If so, surely it constitutes undue influence, especially as the so-called experts are often from certain teams only.

Anyway, what a marvellous scene. Well done, Gareth Barry, and well done, the Baggies.

They might be below us (debatable how much longer for) but in both matches against us they were damn unlucky, the better team twice, they've also been to Anfield twice and drawn and won.

We look as big a mess as the minute Allardyce walked through the door despite a few unconvincing matches in December where luck was our best player.

Allardyce was slaughtered because Everton drew at home to a crap side like the Baggies. It's astonishing you could post such stuff as you have here. Contradiction at it's best.

I just have to shake my head and laugh – it's either one or the other, Jim – stop twisting it to suit an agenda, mate.

Pardew hasn't suddenly transformed West Brom in a week. Maybe our draw last week isn't as bad as the knockers first thought.... Have you thought of that, Jim??

Let's get a few things on the table.

1. We have a large squad of players that needs culling. There are a number of players we all know are not of the quality we now need.

2. Of the players in the squad, who are good enough to play in the premier league, young or old?

Williams? No
Martina? No
Jagielka? Sadly, No
Baines? No
Holgate? No
Schneiderlin? No
Gana? No
Niasse? No But..
Klaassen? No
Ramirez? No
Besic? No

Jury out on:
Valsic
Lookman
Kenny
Keane
Davies
Baningime
Calvert-Lewin

3. Easier, who IS good enough to have as a nucleus to a team? Yes? Lets start with
Pickford
Sigurdsson
Rooney (Experience and brain alone..)
Walcott
Cenk (hope so)
Coleman

So.. we have:

6 quality players
7 young but good prospects
11 not good enough.

Out of that little lot, we have more holes in a squad than can be patched up with the nearly men. Take the six I earmarked:

One Goalkeeper, One defender
Two Midfielders (in the same position!!)
Two forwards (just acquired)

If we had kept Stones, Lukaku, and Barkley, we would have had a spine and a team that could carry two or three younger or older players.

We don't.. and we can't carry the not good enough or the inexperienced. The old can't get there quick enough and the young don't know where to go..

So Allardyce's Mission Impossible, should you chose to take it, is to build a team with questionable players, turn the almost into excellent, wring every ounce of experience out of the others, and build on a core of what you have.

That, my friends is why we are where we are.

How we got there is a different story, one that is as embarrassing as it is disgraceful. And it's not even on the pitch.

That is of course assuming everyone agrees with your characterization of all those players as not good enough, which I for one absolutely do not. I could easily compare many of the players you listed as not good enough and compare them with players in the West Brom team that put 3 past our neighbors this evening and say many are certainly better.

What I could also do when making that comparison is look at how the manager sets his team out. One says defensive, one man up top, hoof from defense to nowhere. The other has two men up top, players playing the ball on the ground and players getting up to support in attack.

There is no way to simply conclude that Klaassen and Sandro are not good enough for the Premier League. Same goes for Gana, who might be limited but could play that holding midfield role very well. If only he wasn't stuck with another defensive midfielder trying to do the same thing, but doing a worse job of it.

And I would certainly say that Holgate has proven himself good enough to play in the Premier League, as has Jagielka. Of course, it would help if the position and partnership wasn't changed every week.

The style of play is awful but, if we try and play open football, we get smashed by everyone. Best keeping it tight and letting Rooney or Niasse try to score.

Would Pepe or Jose want any of our players? The answer is No. Would any of the other top 6 want any of our outfield players? The answer is no.

So why are we surprised by the performances, and comments out of Big Sam? The bottom line is that we aren't very good. We have a load of potential with younger players and a decent goalie –the rest of them are not good enough or are too old.

Buying shed loads of players then jibbing them off at the earliest opportunity isn't going to improve us either.

Les than a week to bring in some quality, I can see us offloading players but not signing anyone.

For me the appointment of Sam Allardyce (which I called for) was primarily a "live to fight another day" move.

I have lived in Australia since 1973 but was privileged to start supporting the club in a match going way in 1961.

Goodison was alive then. When the chant "Everton" rang out from the crowd the noise bounced of the stands. It was truly a fortress.

I have been back twice since then. First time Wenger's invincibles hammered us 4-1 but strangely enough I enjoyed my visit.

I attended the Spurs game this season and what I saw and experienced alarmed me.

We overseas supporters are a strange but faithful breed and sometimes when you are distanced from a problem you see it with great clarity. Where has the heart and sole of the club gone? All that is left is the supporters and they are battered.

The once glorious Goodison stadium is now clapped out and a liability. As I see it, Moshiri is our last hope to save the club we love from oblivion by getting us into a new stadium.

That won't happen if we loose our premier league status and that is why I called for Sam Allardyce because that is what he does better than anything else - survives.

We play Leicester this week. Their survival and restoration is a great credit to that club, it's owners and most of all its supporters. I hope that the Goodison faithful can get behind Sam Allardyce and the team with the same level of support that the Leicester players and their manager got when they were struggling so badly.

My judgement in calling for Sam Allardyce may have been awry but I can say in all sincerity that my motives weren't and my ego has had the corners knocked off it enough times to admit it if I am proved wrong.

As far as the structure of the Everton hierarchy is concerned perhaps Moshiri has already identified that your model of a Director of Football and coach (as opposed to manager) is the best for the club – I for one never expected him to appoint a Director of Football.

If this is, as you say, the period of the long goodbye for Sam Allardyce, I will thank him if he keeps us up.

Holgate may be somewhat arrogant but he has the makings of a fine centre back.

Williams gets at lot of stick but the man is a beast and can still do a job; but he needs better protection.

Klaassen & Sandro haven't been given a chance, even with Allardyce telling us that the first team gave up against Spurs.

And the jury is out on Baningime, Davies & Calvert-Lewin, three kids playing in a side bereft of confidence.

Too harsh for me.

Lyndon posted a day or two ago the list of players that were at the club for the previous three managers. To put is simply, what you say is not true.

Only a couple of the players now on our books were here during Martinez's time. There has been massive squad turnover year over year. So to say these are the same players that keep getting managers sacked, simply not true.

Unless you're referring to Jagielka, Baines, Coleman, since they are really the only holdovers.

I'm not blaming the players though, as it is up to the manager to trim the squad of the players he doesn't want and get the best out of those he keeps and recruits.

You just listed off a bunch of players that do not play for us. Mirallas is gone, and wasn't playing when he was here. Funes Mori been our injured for ages. McCarthy same, permanently injured. Besic does not play, Garbutt wasn't even registered and has been out on loan for years until now.

How would players that have been at other clubs, not registered, out injured for a year to two years be letting down the manager and getting them sacked?

The line is thrown around as if the same players have been performing poorly for Martinez then Koeman then Allardyce, with a little Unsworth thrown in. But that's just not true.

Martinez came to Everton and he put Lukaku up top. Barkley was in there, often with Mirallas. Barry and McCarthy were in midfield. He also had Deulofeu in attack. Coleman was in defense along with Baines, with two of Jagielka, Stones, Distin and later Funes Mori chosen to make up the center pairing. Osman was still around, as well as Naismith. Howard in goal, later Robles.

Koeman came here and Howard was gone, with his own Dutch keeper brought in. Williams was in defense alongside Jagielka. Stones was gone. Lukaku was up top his first season, with Barkley still in there. Mirallas played some but not often. The midfield pairing was changed to Schneiderlin and Gana, with Barry being dropped and eventually leaving this season.

Of course Lukaku also left for his second season, Mirallas hardly ever used; Barkley injured and then sold. Deulofeu sent out on loan for the first year and then back to Barcelona this year. Bolasie was brought in last year. And of course this year we saw Gilfy and Rooney brought in, with Calvert-Lewin up top for the most part.

Baines still at left back, until inured and then we got Martina. Davies getting some game time but not off and on. Lookman rarely used, same for Vlasic. Then Pickford put in goal, with Keane coming to us in centre-back but being in and out of the team in favor of Holgate or Williams.

Now we have Allardyce, sent Mirallas away. Using Holgate in the center with Kenny at RB, Williams or Jagielka the other CB, Martina at LB. he would use Lennon often but he has been sold now. Calvert-Lewin still up top with Niasse getting some time, now Tosun. Bolasie on the wing with Gilfy still playing out left mostly.

Now he has Walcott. Rooney being dropped much more often. Midfield pairing has been changed often, first with Schneiderlin and Gana, then Gana dropped for McCarthy. Now with McCarthy injured we'll see what he goes back to.

Williams, Jags, Baines, Holgate and Gana (one of the leading tacklers in Europe the last two seasons) are clearly good enough to play in the Premier League.

As for Niasse... well, Harry Kane leads the Prem with a goal every 93 minutes this season. Guess who's second with a goal every 98? That's right, our Oumar. His six goals put him ahead of Dele Alli, Chicharito, Willian, Giroud, Rashford, Rodriguez, Zaha, Defoe, Rondon, Batshuayi, Bony and Benteke among many others. Like it or not, he has made his place.

Klaassen and Sandro still belong on the "jury's out list" and Schneiderlin was our best player 10 months ago, so somebody would sign him.

Now, are they good enough to be part of a top 6 side? Of course not. But no place in the Premier League? Sorry, that's waaaaay off target.

Everton through one reason or another have lost four main players from last season in Lukaku, Barkley both wanted out and good riddance, Coleman and Baines the four were basically our attack. Baines should be retired already, he's finished. Coleman is terribly missed he is one of the few Everton players with spirit.

A decent full back and another stud center back and this season would be very different. We would be comfortably following the pack in mid table.

How anyone can blame Allardyce for the shambles of a season we are having when its plainly the feeble-hearted group of players that we have acquired is just beyond me.

Dignity and courage.

How is it possible to get things so badly wrong?

I'd love to hear more from Koeman about what wrong. Who did Koeman want and how different was it to who he actually got?

It does appear, players are more concerned with their inflated salaries and who's playing golf in the afternoon after training sessions, instead of having double training sessions, as a matter of fact.

You might be a diabolical, won-nothing manager (Allardyce) but you are a canny old bastard! World class at deflecting the blame from your neanderthal tactics with "dog whistle" sound bites. I would almost admire it if I didn't have to watch the most negative Everton performances in my lifetime.

What has he done since he left you ask, well what have we done since?

And lastly, nobody is blaming Allardyce for this shambles of a season, people are blaming him for the shambles of the games he has been in charge.

Sigurdsson strikes a decent ball but he's pedestrian and offers very little else.

Despite losing around two years of his career through injury, I expect Barkley to shine and win trophies... I don't expect Sigurdsson to win anything.

It is now up to Sam to get four or five wins out of the players to keep us up. If he does, great... but, even then, we are still in a massive mess at the start of next season.

We don't have the players to challenge top six, but we have more players who are Premier League quality than the rest and we have outspent them all. Yet we are afraid of them and still go out to spoil the game.

We had some good times, signed some good players, but we were mostly only flat-track bullies, and not really what Everton Football Club should really be about?

But look at all the young players who have left Everton, except Stones IMO. Good on their day, but have they got that little bit extra that you really need?

Sigurdsson helping to lead Iceland to the World Cup is already more impressive than anything Barkley – who can't even sniff the bench for the English side at this point – is likely to accomplish in his career.

Siggy helping to lead Iceland to the World Cup is already more impressive than anything Barkley - who can't even sniff the bench for the English side at this point - is likely to accomplish in his career.,,BlueKfrog,1,09:41:13,,45.48.103.181,ok,19338,01/28/2018 09:41:13,bgienapp,reader,, 894399,36156,toffeeweb,28/01/2018,John Davies,fatboy_57@hotmail.co.uk,"Steve Brown (#158). You have hit the nail right on the head, mate.

I am 60 years an Evertonian and this is truly the most mind-numbingly boring, negative Everton side I have ever watched. Sure we have been bad in the past... but never this negative.

That is down to the manager, if he can be called that. Dreadful appointment by the top brass, but then they are just as bad.

Such an awful time to be a Blue. It kills me every week.

Last season, Everton with Barkley finished 7th from also-rans beneath Everton.

This season, Everton with Klaassen, Sigurdsson and Rooney as Barkley's replacements are on a long losing streak and 7 points from relegation position. Yet, Everton spent a fortune securing these players and the disastrous position in the league.

By that, I don't mean his goals are the result of a piece of random luck falling his way, rather he makes his own 'luck' by his never-say-die attitude and his willingness to chase lost causes and an instinct of being in the right place at the right time, as per his goal against West Bromwich.

These are precisely the qualities and attitude that Allardyce is taking about and yet he and some of the fanbase are still not convinced he is up to Premier League level. I think most teams outside the top 6 would view such a player who makes his own 'luck' as a great asset to have in their squad.

Perhaps this why the likes of Palace, West Brom, Brighton and Newcastle are all showing interest in him. If they can see what he has to offer, why can't Allardyce?

We would be mad to let him go and talk of the toothless tiger Rondon is ridiculous when you compare their goals-per-minute stats.

At present he is far better as a striker than Calvert-Lewin, yet Allardyce is prepared to play the youngster in almost every game. If he would bring Oumar on in every game for the last half-hour, I think our goals-for column would look a bit healthier.

Poor choices in recruitment are a factor, but Sigurdsson has been one of the few successes IMO. Your conclusion that it is purely down to the fact we are missing Barkley is massively wide of the mark his form last season was mainly, truly awful.

Lukaku, however – his presence and goals have been missed – and we still haven't found an adequate replacement.

Rondon and Calvert-Lewin are better players but not prolific but they do contribute immensely to the cause of the team, thereby allowing the more predatory players to take advantage. It's again about having a balance in the side / squad.

I agree that we shouldn't get rid of Niasse but I wouldn't necessarily start him in most matches. And a Rondon player wouldn't necessarily go amiss at the moment to bind the attack together.

Our first aim should be to cuff aside everyone below us, then giving it a go against the 'bigger' teams above us. The fact that we've been playing poor football for three seasons shouldn't apply.

There's a good team in this squad and they should start playing like it, instead of being scared of everybody.

1. Have we enough of the players to make the "project" viable? No.

2. The players I said are not good enough would not be picked up by any of the teams above us if they had the choice.

We are back to building a team with what we have got. There are a couple of players in that "No" category I am sad to see go, but there are much more I would have to say we should not be playing.

With respect to Holgate and Gana, they are both squad players in my opinion but lacking in experience and it's a close call if they should be in the "wait and see" group. Bu,t for now, their inexperience is made up for by effort... and it's not enough.

The issue Allardyce has is: Which ones can he rely on? Which ones can he use?? and Which ones does he have to use to plug the remaining gaps???

I know it's contentious but how do we improve on what we have? And really, of all the players listed, where would you put them in your lists of keep or go?

We have sold our best players and replaced them with average footballers and kids.

Our billionaire owner should start spending some cash.

The difference is, Liverpool plan long-term when Everton are just planning short-term with 4 players over 27 years of age costing over £100 million. If those older players really performed over the past two seasons (including this one), it could be a lot easier to overlook their ages.

Phil Jagielka was a decent player in his day; like Baines, he has never been a strong leader type and is well past his prime. Gareth Barry, though aging and sometimes exposed, is the closest we have come to an on-the-field Corinthian who could organize the players around him. He has been so missed this season. Why not make Seamus our captain when he steps back?

As bad as things look right now, we cannot lose sight of the fact that we are a team in the midst of a huge transition. We missed the goal of maintaining a decent level on the field and, if you think about it as Year 2 in a 5-year plan, players like Williams, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Rooney and even Coleman will all have long left the club in that time. The Under-23s are chocked full of talent – a lot of it acquired in the last couple of years.

We do deserve a lot better on the field. We deserve to see at least some heart and passion and some leadership pride in the shirt.

Hoping for better days.

Gana Gueye and Sigurdsson are both 29 next birthday. If Gana hasn't got experience now, he never will have.

Sigurdsson was a ridiculous buy for 㿙M. They saw Kenwright coming.

Add to that a crazy spending spree on average players and you have a recipe for disaster. To be fair, I am sure that a few of the players we have signed would have fared well in a settled team. It just seems like we don't have a concrete plan in place.

Unless there is a dramatic change in fortune, I can see us getting relegated.

Just making the most tackles is not enough for me, sorry; he should be able to turn the tackles into assists or opportunities (a la James McCarthy, who has scored some 30 goals in his career).

I've been all about Paulo Fonseca since reading Lyndon's article a few months back but Antonio Conte, now there's a thought.

Could Moshiri pull it off ?

The top sides have at least one strong centre-mid who can stand and tackle, pass and drive forward. Until we get someone like that, we'll carry on struggling.

You really couldn't buy this many average players if you tried. Will Moshiri finally put his stamp on this club and stop his money being poured down the drain? Walsh, Kenwright & Elstone have proven, beyond any doubt whatsoever, that they are not fit to take this club forward, so fucking do something about it! He deserves to lose his hard-earned fortune if these idiots are let loose again this summer.

Kenwright says Moshiri "never says no" when he asks for money for players. How about you throwing some of the 㿚M you made off your shares into the mix eh, Bill?

Leeches aren't very nice; incompetent leeches make me want to puke. The club is polluted by them, and there is only one man who can put a stop to it. The trouble is, it looks like Moshiri has fallen under the spell of the master bullshitter. Sickening.

Expecting this mob to deliver a 𧺬M waterfront stadium is also becoming more concerning as each week goes by, and the costs escalate. We are one financial crash away from the whole thing going up in flames. Those 11 principles may as well be written on the bog wall in the Winslow at this point.

The smoke and mirrors farce continues...

I don't think there has been a transfer policy in place at all. Firstly, in the summer, those in charge seem to have thought, "We'd better ensure we don't upset the fans by selling Lukaku before buying anyone, so we'll pre-empt that charge by grabbing anyone who we can lay our hands on." Most of the incoming players were not highly sought-after by other clubs, including Sigurdsson – yet we appear to have paid premium prices for each and every one of them.

If Koeman was responsible, he has a lot to answer for... a die-hard reds supporter would be hard-pressed to spend so much money on so very little and cause so much damage to the club off and on the pitch.

What is it about this group of players that experienced football people are unable to extract a basic level of skill and effort from?

I'm past blaming Kenwright and Elstone et al – although they share responsibility for where we are and what they have made the club in the last 15 years, but how can a major shareholder become so clueless as soon as the business becomes football and not some other product?

As for the stadium, are they in danger of selling the future of the club to LCC? Could the club fund it, if the television money suddenly stopped? Apart from an iconic location and improved facilities, what does the club gain financially from re-locating? Do current members of the board or owners have more to gain from the move than the club?

There are many unanswered questions relating to the proposed stadium plan, but it seems the shareholders at the AGM didn't have the appetite to ask pertinent questions and are quite happy to be led by the nose.

The stadium is not a gift to the club by Moshiri, it will be funded by the club's own earnings and, given our history of creating revenue streams, I'm slightly concerned that we might be biting off more than we can chew. After all, if a professional club can start a season with no recognised striker and fail to provide adequate cover for an ageing left-back, can it really be trusted to get the best deal for the club when it comes to moving stadiums?

Very cynical, Kevin.

I'm sure he's going to throw it in the kitty just as soon as the right moment comes.

Give the man a break... next, you will be questioning his claims about crowd surfing down the Kop.

Had we appointed a Director of Football who set the vision for an identity and bought players accordingly then even the clowns we've installed as a ‘managers' could have cobbled a team together. We continue to appoint managers not coaches, who by implication want more than to look after the team.

We have also appointed anglophiles – not a true foreign coach who is more likely to, not always, handle the model with more elan. I still do bot believe our spending was foolhardy in the summer, in fact I have much more reservations about the players brought in this window.

But if there is no identity being enforced from the top of the club through a DoF to give long term continuity, then each manager will change the direction of the style and influx of players for their own needs; short-termism.

We've allowed the last three mangers to lurch the club from one ‘style' or no style in the last 2 iterations. The impact of which is wholly evident on the pitch.

Remove Walsh quickly because, even after Sam has pissed off with his ill-gotten gains, the next fella will take us somewhere else with players ill-suited to execute his style. Who would blame them?

Koeman often quoted Cruyff, with his idea of quick-footed, flexible forward midfielders. I've read Cruyff's book; he makes it sound simple. He name-checked both Koeman & Martinez – neither able to articulate these ideas to our players.

Koeman seemed happy to blame others for the lack of target man and left back, while retreating into his shell and confusing the players.

That's where the blame lies. Despite the lack of left-back & striker, this is a squad that should be 7th minimum in a poor league.

I know hindsight is a great thing but nobody could convince me that enough thought went into it.

But I agree with what you're saying about Gueye being limited. Bolasie is similar with only 1 goal every 10 games wherever he has been. 1 in 17 now for us.

I suggest he puts a bobble hat on, lose the suit, and be transformed back to what he really is. A doppelganger for his Midland compatriot, Benny from Crossroads.