Reports: Fears that Mangala’s season is over

Friday, 16 February, 2018 107comments  |  Jump to most recent

Eliaquim Mangala's Everton career could be over before it really began with reports suggesting that he sustained suspected knee ligament damage last weekend.

The French defender had to be substituted in the first half of last weekend's win over Crystal Palace, his home debut following his outing at the Emirates Stadium against Arsenal the week before, after a collision with an opposition player and awkward fall.

If the prognosis is damaged ligaments, Mangala would likely miss the rest of the season.

Mangala was signed on loan from Manchester City on transfer deadline as belated cover on the left side of defence but his impending absence could be offset by the return of Ramiro Funes Mori.

The Argentine defender, who is on the verge of completing his rehabilitation from a serious knee injury of his own, has come through two starts for Everton Under-23s and has been training with the first team in Dubai this week.  



Reader Comments (107)

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Colin Grierson
1 Posted 16/02/2018 at 23:59:36
Is our luck beginning to change? 🤔
Bill Gienapp
2 Posted 17/02/2018 at 00:01:14
Picking #13 probably wasn't the best idea.
Brian Williams
3 Posted 17/02/2018 at 00:02:25
Everton that!
Brent Stephens
4 Posted 17/02/2018 at 00:17:31
Colin (#1) "Is our luck beginning to change?"

I hope you mean for the worse. Otherwise that's a cheap shot. Offensive.

Darryl Ritchie
5 Posted 17/02/2018 at 00:31:32
If it wasn't for bad luck, we'd have no luck at all.

Here's wishing Mangala all the best and a speedy recovery.

Andrew Presly
6 Posted 17/02/2018 at 01:06:37
Calm down, Brent. If you're offended by that, how do you cope watching our first team play? It's obvious there are fears Mangala is crap. Permit these fears.

Good luck to him and the guy who brought him in, elsewhere.

Peter Warren
7 Posted 17/02/2018 at 01:09:50
Brent, cheap shot but true. Forget how much Man City paid to get him and open your eyes and judge him yourself. He's rubbish.
Lawrence Green
8 Posted 17/02/2018 at 01:42:55
It doesn't matter what you think of the lad's ability, it must be gutting for him. Everton gave him a chance to kick-start his career and if the injury is as bad as feared, we should offer our sympathy and nothing else.
Amit Vithlani
9 Posted 17/02/2018 at 01:59:09
Appallingly bad luck if true, and wish him a speedy recovery. Our bad luck with long-term injuries over the last 18 months has been pretty awful:

Coleman
McCarthy
Bolasie
Funes Mori
Barkley
Baines
Mangala (if true)
Onyekuru

Whilst Baines and Jagielka have missed a chunk of games too.

Michael O'Brien
10 Posted 17/02/2018 at 04:14:01
You couldn't write it, could you?
Andy Codling
11 Posted 17/02/2018 at 04:36:59
Offensive? So what?
Darren Hind
12 Posted 17/02/2018 at 05:28:03
Well at least he had a longer Everton career than Glenn Keeley...

Seriously, I hope this isn't as bad as suspected. The guy has jumped at the chance to reboot his career and, despite looking wobbly, you wouldn't wish this on any player.

Colin Grierson
13 Posted 17/02/2018 at 06:34:21
I can't see me cat for the pigeons, FFS.

To set the record straight, I would never wish an injury on any player. That would be crass. However, my opinion of him as a footballer is that he is a waste of space. Big Sam clearly has no idea what he is doing and would've continued playing him regardless because of 'he cost Citeh a few quid so he must be good' mentality.

If you're offended, Brent et al, then deal with it as I'm offended that Allardyce is even allowed to ply his trade after the England debacle and spend our money on second-rate cast-offs.

I prefer my previous post as it implied the same but was more succinct.

Laurie Hartley
14 Posted 17/02/2018 at 06:44:41
Looking at the highlights it looked like it had the potential to be a nasty one. Terrible luck for the lad and us. He must be feeling pretty down in the dumps just now. I hope he gets over it quickly.
Alexander Murphy
15 Posted 17/02/2018 at 06:58:38
Should We now anticipate him being named by O'Neill in the Republic squad to face Turkey in the friendly next month?
Tom Dodds
16 Posted 17/02/2018 at 07:17:08
Dreary dreary me. With Everton though, what will be will be.

A veritable crowd of disappointments one way or the other now. There is also a logic that we are only going to the match to watch Wallcot?

Roll on September.

Steve Brown
17 Posted 17/02/2018 at 07:31:09
Hope he recovers soon. But I don't honestly see it as a significant loss to the squad.
Phil Sammon
18 Posted 17/02/2018 at 07:57:59
Oh my god! Now we only have Keane, Jagielka, Holgate, Williams and Funes Mori vying for 2 positions!

Meanwhile, we still have no left-back.

Geoff Evans
19 Posted 17/02/2018 at 08:16:02
Hope it's not as bad as first thought, best wishes for speedy recovery.
Liam Reilly
20 Posted 17/02/2018 at 08:31:15
Funes Mori will be a good addition back but Allardyce doesn't do the gentle introductions. He'll probably start at Watford and break down after 30 minutes.

Feel sorry for Mangala; again been asked to jump straight in at Arsenal when he's hardly had a look in at City.

John Dean
21 Posted 17/02/2018 at 09:04:50
I remember when Howard Kendall joined us from Preston. He was just awful for the rest of that season.
Oliver Molloy
22 Posted 17/02/2018 at 09:08:35
Allardyce doesn't do gentle introductions?
Paul Welsby
24 Posted 17/02/2018 at 09:11:00
Wow! It astounds me on how sensitive some of the poster are on here, please give your heads a serious wobble. Our club is a laughing stock and so embarrassing that I dread everyday reading the sports pages or go online to see yet another headline of how this once great club is in decline.

Unless your head is stuck in the sand or you see the positives in everything and anything, then our Everton is, in my opinion, so fucked from top to bottom and yet some fans have a pop at others over a fact that Mangala is shite and some of us feel lucky that we have swerved his lack of ability by hook or by crook.

Fat face would've played him every game because he is devoid of talent also, so be thankful for small mercies and get over it. Everton is more important than some talentless multi-millionaire who doesn't give a fuck about us.

Phil Walling
25 Posted 17/02/2018 at 09:29:58
Possibly carrying the beginnings of that injury into this season which would explain why he has been rubbish at Man City?

Doesn't say much for our scouting and medical teams – and those sacred fitness stats that determines whether you play or not. (Supposedly!)

Geoff Lambert
26 Posted 17/02/2018 at 09:39:23
Brent #4
Well said mate.

The lad played half a game for us, gets a serious injury and the "no class" brigade wishing him ill.

Colin Glassar
27 Posted 17/02/2018 at 10:05:03
Give Walsh (and whoever else is guilty) a big slap on the back for failing to get us cover at left-back for over a year now. They're doing a brilliant job!
Rob Dolby
28 Posted 17/02/2018 at 10:11:22
We needed defensive reinforcements and Sam brought in Mangala. Unluckily he has gone back to City without proving he is capable or not.

Funes Mori is returning to fitness so should be competing for a start now.

Pair either Jagielka, Williams or Funes Mori with Holgate for the rest of the season. First choice centre-back.

Alan McGuffog
29 Posted 17/02/2018 at 10:30:15
Lucky him. Our season ended back in September.
Karl Graham
30 Posted 17/02/2018 at 10:57:41
Disappointed for the player but at least it means we can send him back and there is no real outlay for ourselves. It's a position where we have plenty of cover even if some of them are not the greatest. Funes Mori should be on the bench next game and if he can get 15-20 minutes at the end ease him back him.

My preferred centre-back pairing is two from Funes Mori, Keane and Holgate. Mangala would have made a good 4th choice but it's not to be; hopefully he recovers and gets his career up and running either at City or elsewhere.

Charlie Lloyd
31 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:05:45
Never convinced he’d be an answer to our defensive woes but never good to hear of any player sustaining an injury.

Opens the path for Funes Mori who has much to still prove at Everton and with a World Cup this summer that should add the extra impitus to do well.

Andrew James
32 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:21:33
Mangala went down with his hand raised after some action in Palace's area. The ref managed not to see and the game continued despite the fans yelling at him for the best part of a minute. Then finally the game was stopped as the ball went out of play (it had already gone out once I recall) and they got treatment to him.

The physio got him to his feet and Mangala was limping gingerly around the touchline then – to the disbelief of myself and the guys around me – got back onto the field of play. It was abundantly obvious he was barely able to walk let alone run but on he went. Cue some staggering, the game passing him by and fortunately Palace didn't attack for a couple of minutes and then he was down again with his hand up.

Surely the misguided decision to continue can only have worsened the injury? It seemed madness at the time. Perhaps the player wanted to try but I was watching closely as Mangala and the physio were just below us and Mangala's body language looked like he was resigned to coming off. He looked disappointed and hence our surprise when he was staggering on shortly afterwards.

Good luck to the player, I hope he returns fit and healthy.

David Hallwood
33 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:27:46
Okay, there's been some brutal assessments of Mangala but everyone's entitled to an opinion; obviously I wish him all the best and that he makes a full recovery, and yes it's far too early to assess him as a player.

But I have to say that was the worst debut of any player I've seen in a blue shirt, and I can go back to Bernie the Bolt and Brett Angell, it even eclipsed Per Krøldrup.

But once again we come back to the role of the DoF; what do they do? Surely they must have meetings to discuss what's needed and evaluate players. It follows that surely someone noticed that we needed a left-back and a left-footed centre-back. And yet we ended up with Mangala at the last minute.

I've said this before but the January transfer window is a bit like the TV series Bargain Hunt in that the contestants start out carefully considering what they'll buy and in the final minutes they'll buy any shite.

So how did it come to this? Surely the DoF team (and I'm presuming our Steve "I discovered Mahrez y'know" Walsh isn't a one-man band) are working 365 24/7 highlighting potential transfers etc. Not rushing round like headless chickens in the final hours of the window.

Maybe they've got a poker school going on and in-between games they Google ‘left-sided defenders' and see what comes up.

Dave Speed
34 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:38:55
David Hallwood – it's the other way round. Some TV producer watched Everton's transfer deadline day business for the last God knows how many years, and then thought up Bargain Hunt! It's also Cockney Rhyming Slang for Morgan Schneiderlin.
Rick Tarleton
35 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:51:36
David Hallwood, but not Glenn Keeley surely?
Brian Williams
36 Posted 17/02/2018 at 11:56:59
Snowin' again.
Bobby Thomas
37 Posted 17/02/2018 at 12:15:50
Obviously very bad timing for the player. However even moderate form would no doubt have had our half-wit recruitment team shelling out our now standard £25 million on £100k a week for him.

We shell out more money and in many cases pay better wages than Spurs... Think about that.

If this abysmal recruitment continues, look at the shocking recruitment right through the centre of the side and wide – Funes Mori, Keane, Williams, Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Bolasie (if did we had to take him, overpaid by £10 million), Sigurdsson (overpaid by £15 million at least), Niasse – we will be moving to a new stadium with a nailed-on bottom-half-of-the-table outfit on our hands.

This summer is key. We have to get some long-term pace and strength in at centre-back, some legs and physicality in midfield, and some pure pace up top. And these players really do need to be in the 21- to 25-years-old bracket.

Based on his track record in England so far it is unlikely Mangala, unfortunate as he had been, would have provided the answer to our problems at centre-back.

Fred Charters
38 Posted 17/02/2018 at 12:47:53
Answer: 4 all down the left side.
Question: How many natural left-foot players do Sheffield Wednesday have?

Just watching their game v Swansea.
Question: How many do we have?

Liam Reilly
39 Posted 17/02/2018 at 13:39:30
Everyone keeps saying that Sigurdsson was over-priced. Would Iceland be at the World Cup without him; I doubt it?

We don't play to his strengths and he's not had much of a pre-season. We'll see next season I guess if a more balanced side can be found.

Colin Grierson
40 Posted 17/02/2018 at 13:48:30
Geoff (#26),

Who, exactly, is wishing him ill? Who are the 'no class' brigade?

Careful getting down from that high horse fella. My comment may not have been to your taste but don't start getting all elitist. Whilst I wish the lad well, I happen to think that as a club we have dodged a bullet. My opinion, whether you like it or not.

I'm sure he'll get excellent medical treatment and will return to full fitness with his parent club where he belongs.

By branding anyone who views his injury as good for the club as having 'no class', you seem to be displaying a certain amount of arrogance, which I don't deem as very classy.

Harry Wallace
41 Posted 17/02/2018 at 13:55:27
Looking forward to this season ending!
Ray Said
42 Posted 17/02/2018 at 14:22:36
I have always thought he could be a very good player but only in a partnership tailored to cover his weaknesses. He is strong, good in the air, tackles well and presses attackers out of the box.

He needs to play with a pacy partner with positional sense who covers behind him when he goes for a header, tackle or presses his attacker out of the box.

David McMullen
43 Posted 17/02/2018 at 14:25:10
I feel sorry for him if he has. He'll go back to Man City, I presume. Short, ill-fated spell with us. Let's go back to basics and have a flat back 10.
Ian Bennett
44 Posted 17/02/2018 at 14:47:03
You couldn't make it up.
Mike Gaynes
45 Posted 17/02/2018 at 15:18:50
Brent #4, Lawrence #8 and Darren #12, well said all.
Alan J Thompson
46 Posted 17/02/2018 at 15:32:13
Who was the other bloke we got on loan (under Martinez?) and scored early on with a back-heeler then went off injured never to be seen again?

And under Moyes there was a South American/Brazilian who only managed a couple of friendlies. We certainly get some luck with knee injuries on loan.

Dave Abrahams
47 Posted 17/02/2018 at 16:07:54
Alan (46), I think is name was Lacina Traoré.
Si Cooper
48 Posted 17/02/2018 at 16:10:15
Colin Grierson, how have we dodged a bullet? There may be question marks about Mangala's ability overall but no-one could actually say whether he would settle and do a job for us. Why do you feel the need to rush to judgement?

People like you are making out we have a plethora of better options and someone like Mangala would automatically stop somebody better getting a game. Actual fact is that our extremely inconsistent defence really lacks pace and athleticism which is something this lad has going for him. None of the others are perfect, they all have the capacity to make pretty alarming errors.

Last time out he made total of two poor errors that I could see when I watched the whole game on Sky (a loose back pass and being knocked off the ball too easily); everything else was pretty much par and I thought he was starting to settle in. He distributed the ball pretty well, didn't hide from it, and got injured by putting himself in the thick of it when trying to convert a chance. His first game was a shocker for all of them, and I don't think he was particularly worse than anyone else.

I remember Oumar Niasse's debut when most said he should never play for us again and I posted about his movement off the ball and willing running which is what now makes him a fan favourite. More significantly, I also remember the level of criticism Seamus Coleman attracted for ages.

I really don't understand why people think you are better off making snap judgements and writing players off before you have had a chance to really evaluate them.

To insist that Mangala could only have made us worse on the back of mainly circumstantial evidence is simply assuming your guesswork has merit.

Paul Kossoff
49 Posted 17/02/2018 at 16:54:37
Any comment on the halting of Peel Holding's plans for the docks because of Liverpool council's worry over the city's World Heritage status? Will it affect the stadium?
Lawrence Green
50 Posted 17/02/2018 at 17:16:46
Paul (#49),

I think it's been an ongoing issue for Peel Holding. One report I read earlier was from 2010. However, it appears there is a deadline for the City to keep its World Heritage status which is the end of this month. How all of this impacts on Everton's proposed stadium is difficult to say but perhaps it is one of the reasons why it had 12 months added to its likely opening date?

U-Turn Heritage

https://richardkemp.wordpress.com/2018/02/15/mayor-and-peel-holdings-do-u-turns-on-north-docks-threat-to-world-heritage-status/

Paul Kossoff
51 Posted 17/02/2018 at 17:25:13
Thanks for that Lawrence, mind, I thought "This is Everton" when I read this.

However, the fight to save our heritage is not yet over. As the report acknowledges .there are huge implications for the development of the Bramley-Moore Dock as a stadium for Everton FC.

Bill Watson
52 Posted 17/02/2018 at 18:17:28
Hard luck for Mangala and I wish him a full recovery but glad he's out of our squad.

The consensus is he's not a Premier League standard player and that's why he lost his place at City and fell way down their pecking order. My Man City season ticket friend also says he's complete crap and is an accident waiting to happen. We have enough of those already!

Why we signed him in the first place is a complete mystery with Funes Mori on the way back.

Geoff Lambert
53 Posted 17/02/2018 at 20:13:34
Colin (#40),

I think you answered your own questions there fella!!!!

Si (#48): Spot on!

Shaun Sparke
55 Posted 17/02/2018 at 23:09:09
Colin (#1),

You're a very naughty boy!

Seriously though guys, if you are offended at this then I really do despair. It used to be called "having a laugh" (Yeah Yeah a serious injury is no laughing matter). Since when did we all become so bloody sensitive?

I get offended at people who get offended at offensive remarks that were not really that offensive but people take offence as they are offended by everything potentially offensive which has not really offended anyone until they take offence at it! Phew – follow?

Chad Schofield
56 Posted 17/02/2018 at 23:12:15
Horrible to see anyone injured.

Tempting not to write anything having been berated because, after initial excitement of him signing, I thought I'd do the tiniest amount of digging, only to see him slated by Man City fans and pundits... pointing this out on here seemed to anger some that I wasn't being super positive.

It looks like some soft dummies got spat out almost immediately here too because of a pretty innocuous comment.

David Currie
57 Posted 17/02/2018 at 23:18:02
He was a poor signing and not good enough. We have enough centre-backs till the end of the season and getting him in was not going to make us any better.
Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 17/02/2018 at 23:26:54
Shame for him; who knows if he would have settled and developed an understanding with one of the other centre-backs?

I personally think he has bulked-up too much. When he was younger, he looked lean and quick, perhaps he has been in the gym too much due to a lack of game time at Man City?

Bob Parrington
59 Posted 18/02/2018 at 00:03:47
Si #48. Spot on again, mate!
Simon Dalzell
60 Posted 18/02/2018 at 00:12:44
I'm with Colin, It's only a joke, for Christs' sake. If this offends you, it's time to give up.

ps: He does look pretty shite.

Alexander Murphy
61 Posted 18/02/2018 at 03:27:15
A left back.

Bainsey is bloody marvellous. Loads of assists, a tremendous partnership with Pienaar. Never misses a pen. Scores some blistering free kicks.

"Let's sell Pienaar!" Leighton is getting older, let's send all our left-back cover away! Why don't We win trophies? Well Cos We fail to do the right thing!

Pantomime Billy, thanks. Deluding an entire generation of Evertonians. Some record that.

Now you've appointed the worst ever manager in Everton history. So unpopular he deflects our dislike of our "Barren Chairman", worst record since 1878.

Sam Hoare
62 Posted 18/02/2018 at 07:26:36
Despite some dodgy moments, I thought Mangala looked like he might have some qualities we lack. Genuine athleticism and a left foot for starters. I think he might have proved very useful once settled. Certainly you can't judge from the Arsenal debacle.

A shame to lose him as an option but I hope we see Keane and Holgate who are surely the future (if good enough) in that position.

Steven Jones
63 Posted 18/02/2018 at 08:26:09
Looking at day three of the warm weather training – seeing Leighton join back in with the squad – great news!!

On the other hand, I spotted no Wayne – is that and injury or paternity leave?

Bob Parrington
64 Posted 18/02/2018 at 08:30:08
Sam (#62). I felt the same way about Mangala. Completely bad back-pass and one time easily knocked off the ball but otherwise composed. Let's hope it's not as bad as it seems.
John Atkins
65 Posted 18/02/2018 at 08:49:03
On a separate note, after the FA Cup Quarter Final draw it's looking like 7th place will qualify for Europa League – I can see us getting 7th... our season might start again in July!
Eddie Dunn
66 Posted 18/02/2018 at 09:13:29
John, ironically, if we nail 7th and the board decide that they have to carry on with Sam, imagine the summer. No pre-season, lots of new faces but no time to train, straight into the Europa League games.

It would be far better to finish 8th, say bye to Sam, get in a new boss, and have a proper pre-season.

John Atkins
67 Posted 18/02/2018 at 09:26:09
Eddie, you're probably right but I'd still take 7th.
Clive Rogers
68 Posted 18/02/2018 at 10:22:29
Alexander (#61), agreed. I think think it's possibly more important to get rid of Kenwright than Allardyce. The former has given us 20 years of misery while it is only 3 months for the later, but counting.
Barry Pearce
69 Posted 18/02/2018 at 10:46:57
Shame about Mangala's injury. At least we have Funes Mori, nearly back to match fitness.

On the injury front, does anybody know how serious Seamus's injury is? And any news on how long he's going to be out. Haven't read anything, myself. I believe he was supposed to be having a scan on the Monday after the Palace game.

David Hallwood
70 Posted 18/02/2018 at 11:34:08
Rick (#35), I wish you wouldn't have mentioned the Glenn Keeley game, because I'd erased that game from my memory! Seriously, I remember it vividly; at the time Everton had a scheme that they'd pick a game at random and the ticket stubs would give you priority for derby tickets (anyone else remember this).

At the time I had a season ticket, but the game chosen was Spurs; a load of Spurs supporters were in the main stand and were surprisingly friendly we collected probably a dozen stubs. The bad news was that most of our mates were RS, so we gave them the best seats in the house and we spent the afternoon getting the piss taken out of us!

But to give our Glenn his due, he was up against one of the best attacking pair the world has seen (and I'm chocking on me bacon butty as I type), whereas Mangala (oh and the rest of the deadbeats) faced the worst Arsenal side in living memory, who'd been beaten by the mighty Swansea and was subsequently well beaten in the North London derby – but in-between these defeats we made them look like Barca in their pomp.

Sam (#62) – “Despite some dodgy moments I thought Mangala looked like he might have some qualities we lack” & Bob (#64) –“Completely bad back pass and one time easily knocked off the ball but otherwise composed”.

This is like saying "apart from the iceberg, the Titanic had quite a successful maiden voyage".

Christy Ring
71 Posted 18/02/2018 at 13:05:17
I'm disappointed for Mangala, and wish him a speedy recovery. It was never going to be easy coming into a side, with probably the worst defensive record in the Premier League.

Sam keeps chopping and changing the centre halves. I don't know why he dropped Holgate, as he looked very promising. It's good to see Funes Mori and Baines (who I think is past his best) back, they will give us better balance, as we are totally lacking left-sided defenders. I hope Seamus is back for the Watford game also.

Si Cooper
72 Posted 18/02/2018 at 14:43:24
David Hallwood (#71):

“Sam (#62) – “Despite some dodgy moments, I thought Mangala looked like he might have some qualities we lack” & Bob (#64) –“Completely bad back pass and one time easily knocked off the ball but otherwise composed”.

This is like saying, "apart from the iceberg, the Titanic has quite a successful maiden voyage”.

Erm... no it isn't, there is a quite staggering difference, and that is the point some of us are trying to make.

Firstly, on the back-pass, it was actually hit just strongly enough that Pickford was always favourite to get to it first (but it did make him rush the clearance) and whilst the too easy loss of possession was embarrassing it didn't actually cost us anything.

Secondly, there are very few error-free players to be found anywhere and certainly none in our current squad. Our defenders have been so bad this season, you could practically fill a what-not-to-do coaching manual.

Mangala has certainly struggled since his move to Man City but he was obviously highly regarded at some stage to get that move in the first place. We apparently couldn't land the primary targets we were after to improve our defence but that doesn't mean we couldn't have got lucky with Plan B.

It is very easy to write off players on the basis of a couple of less-than earth-shattering starts; it is not (as some people seem to think) big or clever.

Nicholas Ryan
73 Posted 18/02/2018 at 15:08:18
I thought that Mangala looked like someone who was talented but rusty, rather than someone who was useless.
David Hallwood
74 Posted 18/02/2018 at 15:17:25
Erm... Si (#73), I was actually comparing maiden voyages/outings rather than if he's a good acquisition – and his was a complete disaster.

Look up the word 'irony'.

Si Cooper
75 Posted 18/02/2018 at 15:58:50
But it wasn't his maiden voyage and it wasn't ultimately a complete disaster. If that is you attempting to be humorous (‘ironic'), David, you really should stick to the day job.

I personally don't think humour is required (or even particularly welcome) for everything that is being discussed. Basically you have attempted to discount some people's legitimate points of view with (allegedly) a very poor attempt at brevity.

Perhaps you come from the ‘it's only banter' generation, the last-resort response of those whose sly digs at others' expense get exposed for the demeaning criticism they really are?

David Hallwood
76 Posted 18/02/2018 at 16:45:54
Si (#76) What the fuck are you on about?

1) The Arsenal game was his first full game as an Everton player;

2) He was absolute shite for probably various reasons, but IMHO it was the worst debut I've seen, and I've been watching football for over 50 years (and BTW what is the age range of the 'banter generation'?

3) We got beat 5-1 and it was 4-0 after 25 minutes, so if that isn't a disaster in footballing terms, what is?

Tom Bowers
77 Posted 18/02/2018 at 18:31:22
I don't like to hear of any player getting a bad injury, even RS players. Let's face it, this is their livelihood and bad injuries can prevent some players from continuing their careers or at least prevent them from getting to a higher level.

I played the game as an amateur for 50 years and hated just missing the next game, never mind the season. Her's hoping Mangala makes a full recovery and continues in the Premier League.

Si Cooper
78 Posted 18/02/2018 at 20:06:14
David, what the fuck are you on about? The two comments that you have selected and chosen to ridicule for their perceived moderation are clearly referencing his performance in the Crystal Palace game (his second game) before he got injured.

Most reasonable people aren't going to judge him solely on the Arsenal game when he was dumped into an untried formation with new team mates and where we were uniformly pathetic.

Mick Conalty
79 Posted 18/02/2018 at 20:06:19
If Mangala does not kick another ball he will most probably be financially comfortable for the rest of his life; my heart bleeds for him.
Mike Kehoe
80 Posted 18/02/2018 at 22:29:23
I suggest we abandon all attempts at humour in all forms, particularly irony. I think it may help if anything that could remotely be construed as humour should be ran by a panel of experts to see if there is any possibility the comments could cause offence or be factually inaccurate.

I think we should all post actual observations and not opinions, safe topics that are not going to upset the more sensitive amongst us... so comments like “my bus was five minutes early on Tuesday” are absolutely fine while “that fat fucker is an absolute disgrace to everything the club stands for and Mangala will join the ranks of Bret Angell, Bernie the Bolt and Glenn Keeley as sub-standard non-entities so who gives a fuck if he will miss a few games” is utterly unacceptable.

This will make a nice change and ToffeeWeb can be a place of peace and harmony and when we get fucked again in the derby we can all say “Oh well, never mind, I suppose sport is the real winner”.

Paul Welsby
81 Posted 18/02/2018 at 22:49:38
We swerved another shit player and I don't give a care this millionaire is injured! I am sure he will manage and come back just as shit so get over it.

Can people on here stop pretending they give a shit? If you're that concerned, contact the club and ask how he is coping – stop having a go at fellow Evertonians on here.

This might come as a shock but be prepared sit down, lads: Mangala does not give a fuck about me or you so stop bickering like kids in a playground and move on. Fucking embarrassing!


Si Cooper
82 Posted 18/02/2018 at 00:14:37
It all depends how and when it is used, Mike. I take it you are having a dig at me.

Wrong place, wrong time, poorly done it adds nothing useful and adds to the disharmony. I love the posts of the likes of John Daley and Eugene Ruane who have wit and a clever use of the language to make sure they don't stray from their intended targets.

I'm not for censoring anyone, just for people being aware that the nuance of what they post has to be understood. It seems to me that all-too-often the catch-all phrase after being called for singling out out-of-context remarks for a blast of sarcasm (sorry, ‘irony') is along the lines of "It's just a bit of a laugh".

I called out David Hallwood because his remark on the posts by Sam and Bob didn't make sense to me. Instead of having a good look at it again, he ducked the issue by making out it worked as an ironic statement. It doesn't.

Geoff Lambert
83 Posted 19/02/2018 at 09:21:10
Its nice to know that some blues on here don't give a fuck about our players. And get upset, arsy, abusive, whatever!! when some of us might want to give the lad an opportunity to prove himself here.

He is an Everton player for now and has come here to play football, not sit on the bench with Man City. I don't watch him play live and I don't have Man City season ticket holder mates like others on here, so am willing to give him a chance if he can regain his fitness.

COYB.

Paul Welsby
84 Posted 19/02/2018 at 10:33:18
He isn't our player, Geoff, is he? Mangala was loaned to us because, yet again, another team deemed he isn't good enough for them but he's good enough for us.

I'm sick an tired of accepting second-, third- or fourth-best hand-me-downs... Mangala, Schniederlin, Martina etc – and it repeats itself every few years; this is why we are shit and, if it carries on, we will always be shit.

I'm sick and tired of giving players a chance at our club to see if they can turn into a good player. If Pep couldn't turn him into a half decent centre half how do you suppose huge head will???

Same with Schneiderlin, Jose couldn't but eh lets keep giving these players time and money at our club on whim that it might workout. If any people on here think giving Mangala game time was going to workout for the good of our team under our massive mouth of a manager, then answer me this: Why couldn't the best manager in the world IMO do it for City?

Tony Everan
85 Posted 19/02/2018 at 11:45:18
I wish Mangala a speedy and full recovery. He chose to come to us over a few other options. He deserves some respect.

What has happened to Luke Garbutt, has he been written off? He's the only left back we have got and he doesn't get a sniff. Is the consensus that he has regressed? This left-back saga is worse than a dodgy Coronation Street plot.

Derek Knox
86 Posted 19/02/2018 at 13:18:57
Tony, I am almost sure I spotted him in the 'Rovers' by the dartboard, so he mustn't be with the rest of the crew. :-)

Seriously though, it beggars belief the left-back saga – you couldn't write a more bizarre plot if you tried.

I nearly had a heart attack before, I was browsing the NewsNow Everton site, and the headline was "Everton midfielder signs a 5-year extension" how relieved I was, when I found out it was Idrissa Gana Gueye, and not Schneiderlin!

Steve Ferns
87 Posted 19/02/2018 at 13:23:57
Tony, Garbutt is in Dubai with the first team on their jolly – I mean "warm weather training"!

Check the club's videos – there's a nice goal of his on that. Hopefully, he can persuade Allardyce that having a player comfortable on the left side playing left-back might not be such a bad idea.

Also, Tosun looked good on the video, but then again, maybe the quality of the defending flattered him.

Derek Knox
88 Posted 19/02/2018 at 13:32:02
Steve, if the poor defending was attributable to Mason Holgate, it could be as a result of his cavorting with Pia Mia, and the Champagne Shampoo, as pictured on the media.

It must be really hard, this bonding in Dubai, when you have to visit 'Night Clubs' after training for most of the day. I really don't know how they do it!

At least they didn't try to pinch a taxi, or a camel. Well not that we have heard anything up to now...

Paul Williams
89 Posted 19/02/2018 at 13:32:36
Remind me, when does this season end?
Phil Lewis
90 Posted 19/02/2018 at 13:42:00
Hard to believe that a few seasons back we were overloaded with left-backs, all competing for Baines's shirt. Oviedo who, before his injury, looked an excellent prospect. Galloway and Garbutt who both looked to have great futures. Also Funes Mori, who has played left-back for Argentina. Yet it now seems that all we have as available cover for Baines is an out-of-position right back, Martina.

The mystery is what happened in the development of Galloway and Garbutt? How could they be allowed to deteriorate from the fringe of the first team to relative obscurity in such a short space of time? And why has no rational explanation been given to the fans by the management?

Jim Hardin
91 Posted 19/02/2018 at 15:18:12
Mike and others,

Time and place for everything and the exercise of better judgment. Perhaps letting a message age before hitting the submit link might also have permitted a review and editing to make sure the message hit it's mark.

It isn't a lack of humor, etc that is missing, but rather a lack of being "human" in several of the posts. The absence of apparent sympathy or empathy for the player is the point being commented upon. The subsequent claims by those posters of being funny or ironic in response to criticism, rings hollow is such cases.

TW is not a face to face conversation. There is no background of an ongoing discussion between friends at a pub, etc. Irony and humor are hard to discern when one is staring at a post of words. There is no context offered by the posters and while the author knows the point intended, the reader may assign a different meaning.

As for anyone who has called out the player's abilities, fine but that is a separate topic from persons on here ignoring the injury to a player on Everton's squad, or being mean spirited about it. From the first post to several others, I was disappointed as I thought Evertonians prided themselves on being a class above the normal football fans of other clubs.

Worse, for some, there is no excuse at all. Paul Welsby's post for example, to me, shows a complete lack of class. I would truly hate it if one of our loan players were injured while playing and that club's fans responded as some on here have. (no humor or irony intended).

Paul Kossoff
92 Posted 19/02/2018 at 15:22:35
Update on our "hard working" team, and beloved manager.

It was all sun and smiles in the United Arab Emirates as Sam Allardyce took his Everton team to Dubai to enjoy some warm weather training. The Toffees have the weekend off with their next game coming next Saturday when they face Watford at Vicarage Road.

This allowed Allardyce to seize the opportunity of clear schedule to put the team through their paces in the gym and outside in the hot temperatures.

The squad trained without their captain Wayne Rooney on Friday following the birth of baby Cass Mac. Wife Coleen tweeted in the earlier hours of Thursday: 'So Happy to welcome our Baby Boy Cass Mac Rooney into the world weighing a healthy 8lb 10oz. He is beautiful'.

The official Everton account was quick to respond, writing: 'Huge congratulations, @WayneRooney, @ColeenRoo and family. Another Blue is born!'

Rooney is likely to be given more time off to enjoy with his newborn son with Everton not in action until February 24th.

This will have been a great opportunity for Cenk Tosun to shine after the club's new signing claimed he 'wasn't bothered' after being benched by Allardyce. The Turkish striker has failed to find the back of the net since joining the Merseyside club but maintains that he will continue to work for a place in the squad.

Leighton Baines and Ashley Williams were seen doing weight training inside the NAS Sports Complex while Mason Holgate completed some cardio work on the exercise bikes alongside Davy Klaassen.

The squad even spared some time at the end of their session to meet and greet fans who came to watch the session.

Everton are currently 9th in the Premier League and trail Burnley by two points who are in 7th.

Mick Davies
93 Posted 19/02/2018 at 15:24:11
Sorry if someone has already posted this, but in reply to some comments here, I must say that the worst Everton debut ever must be Espen Baardsen.
Paul Welsby
94 Posted 19/02/2018 at 16:30:07
Jim Hardin – a lack of class, eh! Well I just hope you have been a class bloke all your life because you should never call anyone anything unless you have been the perfect gentleman all your life. I don't know you so I can't call you anything, and after your comment I have to take it that you are this all round class bloke that has never put a foot wrong.

Your opinion of me does not bother me in the least as you can gather I don't give a shit about a multi millionaire terrible footballer so I am over it pretty quickly.

As for us Evertonians priding themselves being a class above, you speak for yourself – not me; I am sick of this so-called Everton Way you and others profess to be the right way... who says it is? You, well sorry if I don't agree with you or my opinion is not to your liking, Mr Class.

Let's carry on this Everton way whilst other clubs are ruthless in everything they do – that is why they are winners and we will always be losers when people like you always jump on anyone who might not give their opinion to your class way.

Michael Kenrick
95 Posted 19/02/2018 at 16:38:52
Garbutt has clocked up 9 appearances in the PL2 this season, and another 8 in various cup games for the Under-23s, which is a pretty good record so far.

Seems he must have done enough to get back into the reckoning and is on the verge of a comeback at senior level? His last appearance for the first team was almost three years ago, in March 2015.

Geoff Lambert
96 Posted 19/02/2018 at 17:49:13
Paul Welsby

No class and deluded, Not good enough for the best team in Europe at the moment, yet has been picked by Pep 11 times this season, has won and scored in a cup final, been in the French squad for the last two major tournaments. Yer right, must be shit then if you say so.

Maybe you think we should be taking all the best players from all the best teams in Europe!! Get real!!!

David Israel
97 Posted 19/02/2018 at 19:04:18
Coming from a Jewish family, I never noticed this Catholic/Protestant divide between the two clubs. In my own family, most are blues, but there's also the odd sprinkle of red, whom we try to treat with sympathy and understanding.

As some of you have said, it is true that many bigots up in Glasgow tend to identify Liverpool FC as the Catholic club.

And Ed #20, we had a Jewish Prime Minister in the 19th century and, fairly recently, two Jewish leaders of the Opposition, and so I tend to think that the fact that no Catholics get to be PMs is just a coincidence.

Paul Welsby
98 Posted 19/02/2018 at 19:50:38
Geoffrey, stay on your high horse, it obviously suits you but I couldn't think of a worse place to be looking down on us mere classless peasants! Each to their own eh. Sitting behind a computer calling people is very, very classy so more power to you Geoffrey!

On the point of getting the best players, I don't recall saying that but eh people with class can also put words in mere classless and deluded people's mouths.

Read my post again, Geoffrey! I said I am sick of getting second, third and fourth choice rejects from other clubs but you make it what you want to suit you. Very classy, Geoffrey, indeed you must be positively glowing with pride.

Barry Jones
99 Posted 20/02/2018 at 00:35:26
I had expectations. We are cursed!
Paul Welsby
100 Posted 20/02/2018 at 07:31:58
Geoffrey, you came up with imo daft stats to back up your arguement, trying to convince me Mangala is a good player blah, blah, blah! After selecting Mangala 11 times, Pep realised he's useless so let him leave – or are you going to tell me it's a masterstroke from Pep to send him to our manager so he improves him before he returns next season to captain Man City?!?

I seem to remember Wigan winning a cup final and Ben Watson scoring the winner – does that make him a good player??? As for being in a national squad for major tournaments your messing aren't ye there have been some very dodgy players in squads over the years so your point is daft again Geoffrey.

The last point I want to make is I prefer to watch players with my own eyes and try an make a fair judgement. So in the handful of games I watched through Sky at Man City, he was terrible – like Bambi on Ice; he is an accident waiting to happen.

But Geoffrey, in the first game for us, he turned his back on a shot that Arsenal scored from because he isn't brave enough or good enough for our club. If you accept players of his ilk at our club then that is your right but I would prefer players who put there bodies in the way of everything, especially a big unit of a centre-half.

So this is why I don't care if this multi millionaire got injured and had to go back to a club who doesn't want him. Mangala showed from that moment for me he was looking after himself and couldn't care less about Everton Football Club – or you and me, Geoffrey.

If this makes me classless, that is absolutely fine, but what does it make you, Geoffrey, to accept an individual who very cowardly turns his back on a shot only for it to nestle in the back of our net? Imo, it reflects on you the same way as being a coward who calls people names from behind a computer.

David Currie
101 Posted 20/02/2018 at 18:33:15
Paul 101, good post and well said – you are right about Mangala and about the other transfers regarding second-rate players from the top sides. He looked dodgy for Man City and was a poor signing that was not going to make us any stronger.
Paul Welsby
102 Posted 20/02/2018 at 19:28:47
Thanks, David Currie! I would prefer hungry players who want to prove themselves at top level or give our youngsters a good go but I mean play them regular in the right positions. If we keep shelling out on these rejects who clearly think they are better than what they are we don't stand a chance of going forward.

It's not the fans' fault our recruitment is diabolical but continuing this model of rejects is crazy. If Pep and Jose don't see anything in them and have tried to coach them to be good players with no joy, how on earth do we expect any of the last three managers we've had do a better job?

I am not deluded, like Geoffrey so ignorantly pointed out; I know we can't get the best players but scouring the the earth for hungry hard-working players who want to make it to the top level imo would be a much better model as the one we are doing now has failed massively.

Si Cooper
103 Posted 20/02/2018 at 00:07:58
Paul Welsby – it doesn't really matter if he is a Man City reject or not brave, if (and it is a big, unresolved if) he could have improved on what we currently have. I strongly disagree with David Currie that we have seen enough of the player in our team (the past and other teams are largely immaterial) to state that he couldn't.

Everything is relative, isn't it? In an ideal world we would have a squad chock full of brilliant players. In reality we clearly don't, so the realists amongst us have accepted that any player we can get that improves us overall is better than no player at all.

You can pick holes in the technique or mentality (or both) of practically every player we have. Mangala certainly isn't unique in the case of not making a good attempt at blocking a shot (it actually appears to be rife and not just at Everton), nor of making the occasional appalling decision / terrible pass.

Some of us haven't seen much of him before and his two games at Everton are our first real opportunities to scrutinise him. The Arsenal game was so bad and full of so many basic errors that it seems harsh to pick out anyone of the defenders as the worst. Until he got injured against Palace, Mangala was doing okay (not brilliant, but not bad either) apart from two very noticeable errors and, on balance, some of think it was a lot more good/ promising than bad. He did make himself available for passes and attempted to be positive and constructive with his own. He was actually showing quite a bit of bravery in attempting to score when he got injured.

Colin Grierson
104 Posted 20/02/2018 at 00:14:37
So we're shite at the moment and as far as some of you are concerned the millionaires, who pull on the shirt, are beyond reproach? How dare I suggest (in a tongue-in-cheek fashion) an opinion that differs to the PC brigade on here. You sanctimoniously congratulate each other for agreeing that I'm wrong! What was it about Mangala that suggested he was any good?
Paul Welsby
106 Posted 21/02/2018 at 12:54:39
Si Cooper, it doesn't sit right with me to get any player in the hope it might improve us rather than none; imo that is just going to be down to luck (which EFC haven't had much of in the last 25 years) rather than Walsh and the likes doing their job properly.

I also have to disagree with you saying it doesn't matter if he is brave. I want all my players to be brave especially my centre-half who, more times than most other players not including the keeper, should be in position to prevent a goal. If other players turn their backs, does that make it right ours do? The answer is No, but that's what football is about and we both have different ideas of how we want Everton players to be and how they are recruited.

I respect your opinion, Si, even if I don't agree with it. David Currie also has a different opinion to you and this doesn't mean he is wrong either.

There are some really sensitive souls on here who, if anyone dares disagree or isn't PC, jump on their high horse and have a right pop and then their little posse jump on with them all congratulating each other after it. Then Geoffrey and the likes resort to schoolyard behaviour name-calling.

Give your heads a wobble and grow up seriously we don't all have to agree or be PC just to stroke your over sized egos of being always right.

Paul Welsby
107 Posted 21/02/2018 at 13:22:41
Si, on Mangala being a Man City reject, it does matter to me and I will try an explain why.

Pep is among the top three coaches in the world and yet he can't coach him to be a regular in his team, granted an exceptional team. But he sanctions Mangala to leave and we think Sam Allardyce is somehow going to coach this untapped ability Pep couldn't get out of him? Then I'm definitely watching the wrong sport.

As for seeing more of him in our team, this is what I am tired of, Si. Many a pundit, journalist, commentator and just ordinary folk like you and me have stated Mangala doesn't seem to be that good of a footballer – so why should I pay my money and hope that somehow Sam Allardyce is going to make him so! Whilst watching him turn his back on a shot that nestled into our net???

Not for me thanks, Si, if that is alright with you. You're well within your right to see if he does and I accept it I'm not saying you are wrong as that is how you see it.

Anyway it's all irrelevant because the shithouse has gone back to Man City now.

Paul Kossoff
108 Posted 21/02/2018 at 15:03:09
I remember saying to my son, after seeing Mangala play a few times for Man City, that if there isn't half a dozen defenders in the Championship better than Mangala, then I've learnt nothing from watching and playing football for most of my life.

Mangala is one of the most over-priced, over-rated defenders I've ever seen. His agent should be given best salesman award for making people believe that this pig's ear is in fact pure silk! I hope we send him back to Man City immediately and be done with crap defenders.

Jay Harris
109 Posted 21/02/2018 at 15:37:58
Let's be honest – who among us would prefer Mangala to Harry Maguire?

That in itself raises so many questions about our recruitment.

David Currie
110 Posted 21/02/2018 at 19:56:59
Paul 108 and Paul 109, Both of you are spot on.

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