Silva confirmation not expected until next week

Thursday, 24 May, 2018 152comments  |  Jump to most recent

Marco Silva is unlikely to be confirmed as Everton's new manager until next week now with the Liverpool Echo reporting that there is still no resolution to the Blues' legal wrangle with Watford.

Silva remains the overwhelming favourite to be named as Ronald Koeman's long-term successor following the dismissal last week of Sam Allardyce who effectively served an extended caretaker role between November and the end of the 2017-18 season.

The 40-year-old Portuguese was installed as Farhad Moshiri's chosen replacement for the ousted Dutch boss last Autumn but Everton were rebuffed by Watford in their attempts to lure Silva away from Vicarage Road.

Silva was eventually sacked himself in January with the Hornets blaming the Toffees' approach for unsettling him and causing him to lose focus. He won just one of his last 11 games in charge of the Hertfordshire club and has been out of work since.

That was not the end of the saga, however. Watford lodged an official complaint with the Premier League, alleging that Everton "tapped" Silva up when they first sounded him out last October.

They have threatened to take the matter to a tribunal if compensation can't be agreed between the two clubs. Everton have reportedly withdrawn a £1m offer to settle the dispute; Silva, meanwhile, is seeking £750,000 in unpaid wages from Watford in a separate suit.

Silva was due to speak with Everton's new Director of Football, Marcel Brands this week, to discuss his potential hiring at Goodison Park. Brands, who doesn't officially start his new role until 1st June, is said to have run the rule over other candidates but it seems, from the Echo's reporting, that the former Estoril, Olympiakos, Sporting and Hull boss remains in pole position.

Though it has been reported that there are no contractual impediments to Everton appointing Silva, it appears as though the club would prefer to clear the decks of outstanding legal questions before making it official.


Reader Comments (152)

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Stephen Davies
1 Posted 24/05/2018 at 22:38:20
A rumour that Arteta was interviewed today...
Tony Twist
2 Posted 24/05/2018 at 22:47:37
Let's hope Arteta was only interviewed out of courtesy. If they are serious, then they don't realise the shambles that is Everton at the moment. Extensive managerial experience of good and bad times is required.
Jim Bennings
3 Posted 24/05/2018 at 22:53:15
Why are we making the same mistake as when we sacked Koeman?

Silva should have been secured this week and started looking at the squad (or the mess) that sits in front of him and set about seeing what players we need to chuck and what three or four top quality signings we need to make certain of to seriously put this club back in the right direction.

Anthony Murphy
4 Posted 24/05/2018 at 22:57:35
Let's hope he's worth the hassle...

Would love to know who Moshiri was taking advice from with Silva as he seems adamant... Could Brands have been advising him even back in October when Koeman was shown the door?

Tony Everan
5 Posted 24/05/2018 at 23:08:01
Maybe they don’t want to start paying him until June 1st, so he will be unveiled closer to that date.

Moshiri shouldn’t settle anything with Watford. The saga made no difference to Watford’s expected finishing position.

Denver Daniels
6 Posted 24/05/2018 at 23:26:47
Is Sarri still available? I hope he is at least a consideration.
Kieran Kinsella
7 Posted 24/05/2018 at 23:37:31
Jim Bennings (#3),

Obviously they want the DOF — who hasn't officially started yet to be involved. Whereas Walsh was a glorified scout, Brands is a legit General Manager type who will oversee football operations.

Kieran Kinsella
8 Posted 24/05/2018 at 23:43:07
I am opposed to Arteta. He has no experience, and no lasting bond with Everton. Phil Neville is a better candidate on both counts and there is no way I want him. Sarri had issues with control at Napoli and doesn’t seem to fit the bill Brands detailed. He seems more like a Brian Clough type.
Alan Johnson
9 Posted 24/05/2018 at 23:58:57
Strange no mention of Eddie Howe being interviewed, having 14% of the vote. I hate being an Evertonian. Nothing ever straightforward, like other clubs.
Si Miles
10 Posted 25/05/2018 at 00:07:18
Every new Manager is a gamble, but I'm not overly enthusiastic about Silva, I don't see the appeal.

If he does (as looks likely) become our new manager, I hope it works out.

Peter Cummings
11 Posted 25/05/2018 at 01:29:28
To my mind, Silva hasn't done anything to shout about and to date seems to be hedging his bets in case someone else comes in for him, which personally I hope they do

Although he hasn't exactly endeared himself to Evertonians, for man management and real experience plus success in the game I would vote for Benitez or Wenger, just saying.

Joe Aylward
12 Posted 25/05/2018 at 02:28:23

Arteta has no lasting bond with Everton? 162 games captaining the club on multiple occasions and being our best player for multiple seasons is no bond?

Being a deputy to the greatest manager in modern football history counts as no experience?

I'd rather have the best little Spaniard over Silva any day

Kieran Kinsella
13 Posted 25/05/2018 at 03:26:23
Joe Aylward,

Throws a hissey fit and leaves on deadline day; ignores polite fan applause on return to club. So no lasting bond. If Guardiola is greatest ever manager surely any muppet could be his number two. Not like Guardiola was struggling before Arteta came along

Phil Sammon
14 Posted 25/05/2018 at 03:44:00
Arteta has had two seasons under Guardiola. That nowhere near qualifies him for the job as Everton manager.

Silva probably isn't qualified either, but at least he's got some experience.

It's a gamble whoever we go with. I almost think Brands is the bigger appointment though. The real shambles at Everton was the insane recruitment policy. Spending all our money on Number 10s never made sense to anyone. The squad is unbalanced and we can't keep everyone happy.

If we can achieve a balanced squad and players getting a game through merit rather than their transfer fee then hopefully we can cultivate a more harmonious playing group.

Bill Gienapp
15 Posted 25/05/2018 at 05:13:32
"Being a deputy to the greatest manager in modern football history counts as no experience?"

Not really, no.

The only way anyone could endorse Arteta is the fact that he's blessed with literally zero track record... which means there's nothing to spoil this fantasy that he's Pep 2.0, fully formed, just waiting for someone to hire him and reap the rewards.

Meanwhile, down here on planet Earth, I'll put my faith in Marco Silva, thanks.

Mike Gaynes
16 Posted 25/05/2018 at 05:52:41
The longer this takes, the more likely it is that someone besides Silva comes into the picture.

And I don't believe for one minute that Arteta has been interviewed, today or any other day.

Terry Farrell
17 Posted 25/05/2018 at 05:56:33

Wenger is finished as a manager and would be a disaster for our club.

Gareth Clark
18 Posted 25/05/2018 at 06:11:28
Marco Silva is my first choice.

I do not agree that we are taking time to seek out other potential candidates.

I think we are being typical Everton & taking our time in making the appointment. Furthermore – I think Moshiri wants this to be a long term appointment... After hopefully learning from mistakes of the last few years (I still think we should have given Koeman more time – very tough start was not a true reflection), and therefore he is making sure everything is perfect, contractually wise.

I think Marco could potentially be very similar to Pochettino from Spurs – which is very exciting. I am really happy that we are going for a youthful manager – I think we need a breath of fresh air & new ideas.

Lastly, I think Brands is a huge appointment. I love how involved he is & how much he communicates. We didn't hear a word out of Walsh in his time here, we have already heard more from Brands. He is also younger & seems to ooze motivation, professionalism, being very serious, but at the same time, very approachable.

Ian Hollingworth
19 Posted 25/05/2018 at 06:35:42
If it is Silva, what in God's name is causing any delay? Yet again, we seem to make hard work of everything.

If the delay is because we are looking for better alternatives, then I will be happy as Silva is hardly the ambitious and inspiring move we need.

Dave Evans
20 Posted 25/05/2018 at 06:48:54
Ian @19,

And your suggestion for this ambitious and inspiring alternative is?

James Peter
21 Posted 25/05/2018 at 06:49:57
Isn't it just that Brands who starts on 1st June wants to be involved in hiring him. I thought the idea was that a DOF should outlive the manager.

For the sake of a week shouldn't Marco Silva interview for Everton with Brands as an employee on the panel who then assesses officially if he's the right fit?

Andy Walker
22 Posted 25/05/2018 at 06:50:20
Jim (#3), I don't think a few days is going to make any difference one way or the other. The players are on holiday now anyway so it's not like Silva is missing out on time to get to know the players.
Dave Lynch
23 Posted 25/05/2018 at 07:10:41
I stated it on another thread.

Everton, the great procrastinators!

Wouldn't surprise me one iota if he was appointed the day before the season starts.

Victor Yu
24 Posted 25/05/2018 at 07:17:54
Are we waiting for Conte to be sacked instead?
Jon Withey
25 Posted 25/05/2018 at 07:41:23
No particular hurry yet – more speed, less haste though.
Russ Quinlan
26 Posted 25/05/2018 at 07:51:16
I think maybe it's taking longer than we hoped because Brands has stated he wants to consider others as well as having Silva on a plate so he is doing things right as far as I am concerned. Whoever he is considering, if he goes for Silva, then all we can do is trust his judgement; his track record suggests we should.

As far as Arteta is concerned, I wouldn't want him in charge but he would make a great first-team coach, learning the trade – but whether he would leave a trophy-winning team for us is another matter!

Jimmy Carr
27 Posted 25/05/2018 at 07:52:19
I've got no problem with Everton taking their time over this. Imagine the outcry if we appoint him then get docked 6 points next season because something legal rears its head. It may not be a done deal.
Victor Yu
29 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:01:42
I do want a proven winner instead of a 'rising star'. We have failed previously with the up and coming Martinez and Koeman. It is time for someone with proven track records (Mancini would have been my first choice but I am ok with Conte, Simeone, or Benitez).
Bill Griffiths
30 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:05:03
It seems to me that the vast majority here on TW, if not all are more than happy. With the acquisition on Marcel Brands. With regard to Silva, it would seem that there exists are as many opposed to him being appointed as there are for.

My personal view regarding Silva is that he could be a great appointment but also maybe not. The way I look at it is that whoever we do appoint will have been signed off by Brands so whoever it is should be welcomed and given a fair chance – be it Silva or whoever.

Victor Yu
31 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:07:07
As we are willing to pay $6M a year for a manager, surely top names would be interested?
Gareth Clark
32 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:17:07
Victor Yu... mate, don't be naive.

Marco Silva is a great man to appoint – he is excitement & youth.

There is no way we're getting Conte or Simeone at the moment.

The only potential names, would have been Pellegrini, but I would not have been in favour of the old man in charge.

Marco & Brands will be a great partnership – a new, refreshing, youthful approach, which is what we need.

Victor Yu
33 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:41:46
"...a new, refreshing, youthful approach, which is what we need " I remember hearing something similar when we appointed Martinez.
Paul Mackay
34 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:43:14
Why are we messing around with Silva? Just give it to Howe.
Paul Mackay
35 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:46:53
Gareth (#32), I assume you're not talking about Brands himself (aged 56) when you refer to being youthful?
Colin Grierson
36 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:51:26
Whoever we get, only time will tell if it's the right appointment. I just want to be entertained. Silva's Watford did play in an entertaining manner before we approached them...

Like many others, I'm pleased we have Brands as he seems to understand the complexities of the business.

I don't care about all that. I just want to get out of my seat with excitement when we play.

Victor Yu
37 Posted 25/05/2018 at 08:53:24
Martinez's team was entertaining. Always high scoring and so on. I want results instead.
Steve Ferns
38 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:05:37
Victor, the managers you mentioned with the exception of Rafa, are on far more than £6m a year. Conte is on double that.
Si Pulford
39 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:06:52
I think it’s a disgrace that Everton don’t rush this appointment without carefully considering the impact just to appease a few loons on ToffeeWeb that will become judge, jury and executioner the second it goes wrong.

Liam Reilly
40 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:09:05
Could be down to legal issues preventing Silva signing on.

What would be interesting is if Everton walk away and appoint someone else; then Silva may have a legal issue or two himself with Watford, for preventing him gaining employment.

Tony Everan
41 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:24:40
Liam, I was thinking the same. Could be a clause that ties him in some way to Watford for the first season. That may expire on May 31st.
Geoff Lambert
42 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:30:03
Si (#39),

How dare you come on here and spout common sense like that?

Stuart Vine
43 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:30:36
I am happy that we are taking our time with this. Brands need someone he can work with. Maybe Silva is not the prime candidate in his mind? He certainly does not set the world alight for me! He was sacked at Watford for good reason. No good manager would let outside matters affect the performance of the team yet some people seem to think that because we chased him the turgid run of form Watford had prior to his sacking is acceptable!

Arteta may not have experience but he is a tough little bugger who will not take crap and has been learning from the best.

Personally, I would love to see Eddie Howe given the chance. Bournemouth play decent football and play with pride, everything that we as Evertonians respect. He has won promotion with them 3 times and has built a team that can finish mid-table in the Premier League with ground smaller than Finch Farm and a budget lower than directors box sandwich bill at Goodison!!

Steve Ferns
44 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:36:29
Tony, if you reread the stories on Silva and then Watford reporting, they did mention something about a clause applicable from 1st June.

I wouldn’t worry too much at this stage. Silva is just going to be the head coach, the players aren’t there. There’s little for him to do.

If he hasn’t already devoured tape on the players this season, then he’s not the guy I think he is. He could also tell Brands to start talks with Sporting for Carvalho. He could also instruct Brands to find a pacy left back in the Danny Rose Mould. He could also ask him to see what else is out there and discuss wages and budgets. He could also sanction the sale of Rooney, if he thinks he’s not good enough.

Sure, this is all in breach of Premier League Rules, but I expect him to be doing it already.

Everton can pay him and his team a hefty “signing on bonus” to pay him for his time so far.

Barry McNally
45 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:39:28
Even though he's an Evertonian, I don't think Howe will come that far north due to his trouble and strife.
Len Hawkins
46 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:41:14
Conte would love to come up here he has heard about that Italian chippy in Huyton called La Chaviata.
James Marshall
47 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:42:45
I have a feeling it's all going to be a little underwhelming over the summer. The best players are all at the World Cup so signings are likely to be limited by that factor.

Silva is underwhelming to me – the way he let the Everton approach destroy Watford's season shows a spineless character in my view. I simply have no trust in him as a result. He basically jumped ship when another club came sniffing.

James Marshall
48 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:45:11
And please, Eddie Howe would be worse than El Bob — his teams don't have a clue how to defend, have you seen Bournemouth's goals against column in the Premier League?!
John Wilson
49 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:49:22
Silva is supposed to be an amazing young manager, apparently an excellent tactitioner. A Portuguese Everton fan has been following him for years. He said of him, on YouTube, "Everton will be lucky to have him, as one day Everton will be used as a window to the biggest clubs in the world."
Brian Porter
50 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:55:00
I'm sorry if I appear thick on this matter. But, correct me if I'm wrong. We approached Watford last season in an attempt to poach their manager. They knocked us back despite us offering a generous compensation package. End of story.

Then, Watford hit a bad run of form, as most teams do at some time in a season. Watford chose to sack their manager and later blamed us for unsettling him by our interest in making him our manager. What excuse did the relegated teams have for their own bad runs of results?

The way I see it is, if Silva was professional in his approach to his role as Watford manager, he wouldn't have allowed outside influences to 'unsettle' or affect his ability to manage the Watford team. If he did, by the way, then he's not the man for us. We need a manager who is 100% committed and immune to outside influences.

Back to my point. When a manager is sacked by his employer, he surely becomes a free agent, free to accept another job offer if one comes along. Now, it just so happens that we appear to be interested in offering him the vacancy as our manager.

What, I ask, would Watford have done if, say, Arsenal had offered him their manager's job? Would Watford be seeking compensation from Arsenal? Of course not. So, why should we be considering an offer of compensation to them because we want to employ a free agent who they sacked months ago?

Surely, by doing so we are admitting liability for his sacking for the reasons they are stating. If we did nothing wrong, and I don't see as we did, then surely we owe them nothing.

We are entitled to offer a job to any out of work manager, including Silva, who by the way, is not my choice, but I feel we should as a club, be standing our ground and not tacitly admitting in any way, that we were guilty of anything in our approach to them, which appears to have been above board and transparent and not in any way illegal. End of rant.

Liam Reilly
51 Posted 25/05/2018 at 09:58:03
Well if a Portuguese Evertonian said that, John — what the hell are we waiting for!
Andy Meighan
52 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:03:26
Joe (#12), Great post. And Tony Everan is right as well. Us tapping Silva up (allegedly) had nothing to do where Watford finished. FFS, Why in the world of Everton does everything have to be difficult???
Brian Harrison
54 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:05:20
Brian (#50),

I agree with you but I would imagine if Everton had no case to answer then we wouldnt even be talking to them about compensation for a man they sacked months ago. So obviously Moshiris lawyers must have advised him to try and settle the case than letting the FA make the decision.

I guess Watford will play hardball and want the best deal they can get, so I guess the delay in naming Silva as our manager is delayed by trying to settle with Watford. I think everybody knows Moshiri wants Silva so its just a case of agreeing a price, but it needs to be done by early next week.

Rob Halligan
55 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:14:00
Brian (#50). I agree entirely with what you're saying. We approached Watford asking for permission to speak to Silva. We didn't tap him up as they seem to think. When they threatened to report us to the FA or Premier League, unless we backed off, we did and dropped our interest in him.

There is a club not too far away from us who were found guilty of tapping up, and what happened to them? Nothing, as far as I can remember, other than finally getting their man.

John Wilson
56 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:15:08
I am saying we're circumstantially basing our opinions on Silva's performance of his managerial ability on limited information, ie, his circumstantial performances insofar as:

1) managing Hull (not keeping them up);

2) Watford (they lost their excellent team performances... but perhaps the question ought to have been: How could he perform excellently and this just be by 'chance'; and

3) His previous sacking from his non-UK clubs.

David Ellis
57 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:21:55
Brian (#50), you are spot on. Although we may have in fact spoken to Silva (or indirectly done so). These tapping up rules are impossible to enforce and entirely impractical.

Anyway I'm sure the "dispute" with Watford is nothing to do with the delay in getting Silva – if they have a claim it would need to related to events pertinent when Silva was their employee – so what we do now is irrelevant.

I'm also sure nothing will come of any dispute with Watford.

Meanwhile, presumably the pundits are predicting that Silva won't sign this week because... well it's the end of the week so most probably will be next week then.

Also I would rather we took a bit of time in this appointment and allowed Brands his say. There isn't the rush that some think. Nothing is going to happen in May (or frankly June) – the entire industry is on holiday or thinking about the World Cup.

Steve Ferns
58 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:23:19
The Watford issue is not as simple as you might think. Contracts are not 10 pages long but stretch to hundreds of pages and include all kinds of clauses that deal with this very issue. This is why it is so complicated. Sure, it comes down to money, and if we really did want to appoint him immediately, we could just do so. It appears that the 1st June is significant and perhaps it will be much easier or much cheaper, or possibly both to appoint him after that date.

As regards the Portuguese Everton fan, I think it's Portuguese football fans in general who have a lot of respect for Silva. They won't take to kindly to how easily people on here dismiss the game in Portugal as some kind of micky mouse league. Winning the Second Division, from a poor start which saw Silva come in as a rescue act, was a remarkable achievement. Eddie Howe getting Bournemouth up could be considered similar, particularly if he had won the Championship. But getting to 5th in the next season was amazing. He took them into Europe. Then the next season he proved it was no fluke by getting them into 4th and European football again. Imagine Howe getting Bournemouth into Europe two seasons in a row finishing 7th and 6th. This is why the Portuguese view him so highly.

Ian Burns
59 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:25:19
It is obvious the choice has been made (Silva) and the delay is, as Brian (#54) stated, it's all about sorting the legal issues and compensation with Watford.

If Brands hadn't given Silva the green light, I am sure the rags would have picked up this story by now and would be touting alternatives.

No hurry, the players are still with bucket and spade somewhere in Blackpool or North Wales.

Keith Gleave
60 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:27:04
I believe we should have the new manager identified prior to the removal of the existing one, that may be the case but other reasons are at play.

It appears that Silva is the chosen one, not for me though. His previous record does not set the world alight and the issue of a bright young thing holds no water as we have sacked two of these recently.

Everton are at a crossroads another poor managerial appointment and we would slip down the league into obscurity. A manager with a proven track record in both the national league and European competition is required to right the ship and create the correct destination in conjunction with Brands. A number of these names have recently joined new clubs so Benitez would be my favourite, put aside the reds issues. I don't think Simeone would come and his football is very much defensive biased as is Conte.

John Wilson
61 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:39:19
I know a little bit about contract law. This matter is not about a contract which is affecting Everton. The contract is between Watford and Silva (contracting parties). The complaint to Watford about Everton is 'tapping the manager,' therefore outside contract matters as far as Everton are concerned.

Premier League Rules, which is the relevant stuff, states that the player in contract cannot be approached. Chelsea were deducted 3 points for approaching players in 2005. Where is the law that managers cannot be approached when in contract?

The obvious defence for Everton and Silva is 'restraint of trade'. The law of contract is a civil matter for the courts or arbitration (mediation).

Steve Ferns
62 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:50:45
John, as you will know, it depends on what is in the contract. The only way the contract does not decide what happens next is if the clauses in the contract are illegal and therefore invalid. It's too complicated to discuss in a football forum, and I haven't kept to date with changes in this area of law since I qualified in November 2004.
John Wilson
63 Posted 25/05/2018 at 10:52:01
Remember too, that under Silva, Niasse scored against both Liverpool and Man Utd. I watched Silva giving instructions to players in that Hull game, there was no pointing, obvious instructions to the players, 'over there.' It was all hand gestures like something from Baseball.

There is something unique about Silva's managerial ability, in my view, and probably more akin to Tottenham's lateral thinking manager (as the Portuguese Everton alluded to on YouTube where he was critiquing the Watford fans) than any manager we have ever had. Change can be a good thing, we need something special to rejuvenate the Everton that we knew and loved from the mid 80s.

I could be wrong about Silva, but apparently, the top Premier League teams were interested in Silva. I for one am glad that Silva lost Watford as it means he did not look so alluring to the Premier League elites. Said Portuguese fans also said that Silva is perfect for Everton as his football is attractive insofar as is attacking, and rapid.

John Wilson
64 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:01:00
Steve Fearns. You make good and valid points. Contract, however, only restricts Silva though, and not Everton – as Everton are just a third party.

Everton could have a case for malicious prosecution against Watford. Everton could claim damages for losses if their performance this season is affected by Silva coming in late through Watford's malicious attempts to hamper his signing to Everton.

Steve Ferns
65 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:04:03
I wouldn't get too carried away with how attractive Silva's football will be John. His football is in the main counter attacking. This means a good defence, and yes rapid on the counter-attack. He wants the defensive midfield to be highly mobile and to break forwards at speed. So none of this sitting back on attacks like we've seen, but they will be sat deep on defence. The fullbacks getting forwards is also a key trait.

If the counter attack does not present an obvious avenue to break forwards at speed, then I'm afriad that Silva's sides do tend to knock the ball around the back. However, they are usually instructed to look for a long diagnol pass forwards, whereupon they can again get forwards at speed.

He does play the high press and close people down. Niasse did do well under Silva at Hull and was a key component in this. However, his pressing is toned back considerably compared to Klopp. There is a greater emphasis on retaining shape at the back.

Sure, critics will point to the goals against column in the Premier League. This is how Silva has played in the past, and how he clearly prefers to play, and with better players, how he would intend Everton to play. The goals against columns at Estoril, Sporting and Olympiacos were much better than in the Premier League.

Liam Reilly
66 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:06:28
Fair points, John, and for the record I'd like to see Silva given a crack also.

That Chelsea tapping up points deduction was for Ashley Cole if I remember correctly. It was suspended though; as there's no way their lawyers would have stood for an actual deduction.

This being plucky Everton, we'll probably get the points deducted.

John Wilson
68 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:15:05
Liam, there has to be football law to use it against Everton, for approaching managers. Is there? I don't know.
Steve Ferns
69 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:17:06
Premier League rules and regulations, John.
John Wilson
70 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:40:38
Steve, but as you're a lawyer, you know that one variable can mean something altogether different when added to an existing situation. Silva may just deliver up something special.

Look, I don't know anything about his previous teams except what I have heard and the odd matches where I have myself witnessed Silva's managerial performances. As you're a lawyer too, you can present an argument for Silva in more detail.

Jay Harris
71 Posted 25/05/2018 at 11:42:21
I think the issue is a little more complicated than we think as I suspect Watford put him on “gardening leave” which means he is technically still their employee and therefore they have to release him from his contract.

I am sure on our side the view is that it is constructive dismissal by Watford and therefore we have every right to offer him a contract. We wouldn't have offered a million in compensation if it was straightforward.

Jerome Shields
73 Posted 25/05/2018 at 12:22:22
Why does everything to do with Everton turn out to be a saga?
John Boon
74 Posted 25/05/2018 at 12:58:18
Taking everything into consideration, hiring a new manager is always a gamble. However, thorough investigation is essential.

Having said that, what on earth were we thinking when hired our last manager? Desperation must have been a factor.

George Cumiskey
75 Posted 25/05/2018 at 13:10:55
Maybe we shouldn't hire Silva unless he brings the Lone Ranger with him, now that would be a great team.
Dave McDowell
76 Posted 25/05/2018 at 13:57:35
George (#76), of course your comment has inspired our new managers song:

‘And it's hi, ho Marco Silva, everywhere we go now baby, I see the Toffees rising, but we won't make a fuss, though it's obvious.'

I'll get my coat...

Brian Williams
77 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:12:22
Dave (#77).

That's actually not a bad little ditty, should it be Silva we get.

Good tune, easy to sing, easy clear words, makings of a decent matchday song. Let's hope we have cause to sing it mate!

John Wilson
78 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:23:20

Silva has made mistakes:

"Once clear that Everton's advances were not unwelcome, it became harder to buy what he was selling. This is the era of the big idea, where every coach needs a philosophy and every team must be on a journey. When it was obvious Silva wanted to get off the bus, that idea was lost.." (see Bateman, A, below).

The negative impression:

"But since leaving Estoril in 2014, Silva has now spent a year at Sporting and a year at Olympiakos before mustering half a season apiece at Hull and now Watford." (Bateman)

What about the Talented man but the Xenophobic (means, does not accept foreigners easily) problems he already faces as he is not English with an English name:

"It was during this campaign that English football fans would have their first glimpse of the Portuguese manager as Olympiacos won 3-2 at the Emirates against Arsenal in the group stages of the Champions League. Given that they've lost 12 out of 13 games away at English opposition in the history of the competition, it was a major achievement. At the end of the season, Silva resigned from his role at the Greek side and remained out of work until he was approached by Hull the following January." (see Clarke, D, below)

What are his redeeming strengths?

Silva's foundations and abilities to manage despite never shadowing top managers:

'He is like a genius'...

Mention the name of Marco Silva to those who have played under him and the admiration is apparent. Managers are inevitably judged on what they do at a weekend, but for players, the reputation of a coach is forged on the training ground. It was there that Silva showed internationals from England and Panama, Switzerland and Canada, things they had not seen before...

How does Silva treat his players?

Panama's Tony Taylor was a team-mate of his at Estoril and recalls how Silva 'switched the whole thing around' upon being promoted to manage the club. From second division strugglers, Silva even took Estoril into Europe. 'His training was just so good,' Taylor tells Sky Sports. "He was tactically sound and very attentive to the details..

Estoril's captain, Steven Vitoria, could hardly have been clearer about who was the catalyst for the club's rise. "Even now, if you asked anyone involved in the recent history at Estoril to point to the one person who was responsible for all of this, whether it was players, staff or fans, they would all come up with the same name," he tells Sky Sports. 'It was Marco Silva...'

This obsession with detail was also a key factor at Hull, where he took over a team that had gone 10 games without a win and led them to eight victories and a draw in his first nine home matches in charge. 'You could tell from his sessions how hard he was working behind the scenes,' Hull midfielder Ryan Mason tells Sky Sports. 'He was a workaholic...'

'He studied the other teams. The day before the game he would have the team set out and you would walk through certain situations. Even opposition throw-ins. It was very thorough and a big difference from before. It was a level of detail we were not used to. Those minor details can make such a difference at the highest level in the Premier League'

Silva's sacking could still be seen as controversial. After all, Watford remain in the top half of the Premier League table – a position that, if maintained, would represent the club's best league finish in over 30 years and the third best in their entire history...

The bonds that he is able to forge with his players in such quick time has always been central to his success. Mason recalls Silva having 'this aura around him" and while he only played under the Portuguese briefly before suffering a serious head injury that has put his own career on hold, it is telling that they remain close. 'He was great,' explains Mason...

'He came and visited me a couple of times. He would always phone me. We are still in contact and we exchange messages even though I only played for him for three weeks. He is someone with whom I built up a very good friendship. He was a good man manager and you need that. You need to get the respect of your players and build up little relationships'...

That tallies with Kasami's recollections of Silva from their time together in Greece. 'He spends time getting to know his players,' says the Switzerland international. 'He is very straightforward with you. That is what I like about him.' Vitoria agrees as well. 'As a man and a coach, he is amazing,' he says. It ensures that players want to play for him....

'The first thing about Marco Silva is that he is a good person,' adds Taylor. 'He is very fair. Everyone wants to fight for him because he respects each guy on the team. The second thing is that he has also got a strong character. I think that is very important if you want to be a good manager because players need to respect you:'" Bate, A (22 January 2018) in 'Marco Silva sacked by Watford: This gifted coach is his own worst enemy'

"...lack of apprenticeship he endured. Villas-Boas worked under Mourinho for a number of years before he became the main man. Mourinho himself learnt from Sir Bobby Robson and Louis van Gaal. Silva's career was born out of desperation rather than education (natural intelligence, ie he is self taught... even though Mourinho and Silva had the same humbling beginnings):"
Clarke, D (10 January 2018) in 'How far can Marco Silva go in his managerial career?'

What can Silva do with even limited squads or limited budgets?

"Silva... best-ever finish in the top flight, qualifying for the Europa League in the process. The following season... Estoril... finishing fourth. During that campaign, he famously won away at Porto, ending their 'undefeated home record' that had stood for 'over five years'

It has been a trait of Silva's to invest in players who have been released or rejected at other clubs, and to rejuvenate their careers(cue Niasse?)…..

Sporting were aware of Silva's managerial nous, his ability to withstand the loss of star players and forge a winning team on a budget (Silva can work with what he has), playing attractive football (which Everton love!)

Silva brought Sporting their first trophy in seven years:" Millar, C. (7 December 2015) in 'High-flying Marco Silva continues to work his managerial magic.'

"13 Premier League wins, Watford's boss is man of the moment for faltering clubs... a Silva-type figure, the middleweight miracle-man, oozing Euro-cool and bolt-on creativity, here to solve, and satisfy and set instantly in order.

Talent, team-building, opportunity: these are all still precious things, in need of nurture and care. This applies to managers as much as players. Silva clearly has talent. The question is whether he will be allowed to express it...

To raise any kind of doubts about Silva's space-rocket trajectory is to risk aligning yourself with the infamous Soccer Saturday segment shortly after his appointment at Hull..

[Ronay B cites Merson and Thompson]: ... 'Why is this geezer any different to Gary Rowlett [sic]?' An ashen-faced Phil Thompson, not angry, just very sad (and also, let's be honest, angry) suggested appointing 'somebody like this' was 'hugely embarrassing.' 'There are plenty of people out there who know what it means to dig in,' Thomson pointed out. 'He's not got a clue...'

Ronay B cites some Premier League facts about Marco Silva:

Hull dug in, taking 21 points from 18 games...

His (Silva's) teams have tended to win away from home, often at the bigger clubs, and to take pride in their fearlessness. Estoril handed Porto their first domestic home defeat in seven years (Everton need lots of help with winning away games, as at home we do much better)...

'Master-taction' is what Koeman said of his own abilities (a narcissist?)

Silva's tactical ability speaks for itself ...something startling at Swansea, anticipating Paul Clement's half-time changes and pre-empting them with matching tactical tweaks of his own, successfully as it turned out. Curtis Davies has described Silva physically moving his players around the training pitch, demanding an absolute precision in every phase of play, persuading his players to buy into this level of detail through force of will and personality

...(if) more than a single season for the first time since Estoril, watching him apply his talents to a slightly longer-term project should make a fascinating spectacle:" Ronay, B. (23 November 2017), in 'How has Marco Silva become the Premier League man in demand?'

Collymore sees a great future manager in Silva, eventually attracting attention from the elite clubs worldwide. However, he says of him that he has an ability to adapt to 'English football and its unique demands very quickly - and proved in no time at all, to be the real deal." Stan Collymore (19 November 2015) in 'Marco Silva has the ability to reach the top – but he is not ready to take on pressure of Everton job yet.'

Ian Horan
79 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:25:29
Marco Silva is owed £750k in wages by Watford, he has his own dispute with them. By the fact they haven't paid him does that not consitute breach of contract!!?!

Then stopping him taking another job is classed as restraint of trade... Watford bang to rights on both counts!!!

John G Davies
80 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:36:33

Never won a thing early on in his career.
Turned out to be a crap manager.
Surprised anyone gave him a chance.

Peter Mills
81 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:40:20
Steve (#65), I have read all your enthusiastic endorsements of Silva, and I (genuinely) bow to your knowledge of him. You say his tactics are based on a good defence – the defence at Watford was a shambles.

Have his defences at his other clubs had a reputation for solidity?

Nicholas Ryan
82 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:46:14
The position with Silva appears to be this: Watford 'sacked' him, thereby putting themselves in breach of contract. That entitles him to compensation for the breach. They have made an offer of compensation, which he has rejected. Until compensation is paid, or at least agreed, he remians technically contracted to Watford. The unpaid wages are a side issue.
Steve Ferns
83 Posted 25/05/2018 at 14:50:56
Yes Peter. He was the "New Mourinho" not the "New Guardiola". That said, he is far more attacking than Mourinho. His teams can be very direct, going straight for the jugular when they counter and break on the opposition at speed. Which was seen at both Watford and Hull. If you remember Hull sat deep often, and then when they won they did so on the break. The problem both sides had was the defences were not very good, rather than a tactical issue.

The only issue with the tactics is that because both DMs push up and play as box to box midfielders, and the full backs both push up as well, if they are countered quick themselves, they can be wide open. This is what Silva needs to work on, and I think this is something that takes more than a season to find the perfect balance.

Peter Mills
84 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:00:49
Steve (#85), thank you very much for that – I can't help thinking the defensive frailties are a fundamental flaw in his tactical approach.
James Stewart
85 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:09:04
@38 Yes and no Steve. We paid Allardyce £9M not £6M.

Emery to Arsenal on £5M per year. Ancelotti to Napoli £5.5M. Pochettino signs the new Spurs deal for £8.5M.

We should be at least sounding Conte out. Instead, we are faffing around, again, just like we did with the Koeman saga.

Another week goes by without any transfers being sorted in or out.

Steve Ferns
86 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:10:48
Silva's raw numbers (league only) are as follows:

Estoril - 11/12: P25 W15 D6 L4 F37 A17 P51 Position: 1st
Estoril - 12/13: P30 W13 D6 L11 F47 A37 P45 Position: 5th
Estoril - 13/14: P30 W15 D9 L6 F42 A26 P54 Position: 4th
Sporting - 14/15: P34 W22 D10 L2 F67 A29 P76 Position: 3rd
Olympiacos - 15/16: P30 W28 D1 L1 F81 A16 P85 Position: 1st
Hull City - 16/17: P18 W6 D3 L9 F20 A36 P21 Position: 18th
Watford - 17/18: P24 W7 D5 L12 F33 A44 P26 Position: 10th (when sacked)
Total (all comps) - P264 W139 D55 L70 F456 A301 Win% 52.7 PPG: 1.79

John Wilson
87 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:12:50
Nicholas you say, 'he remians technically contracted to Watford.'

How? No, he is not contracted to Watford technically or otherwise. The contract has been terminated owing to Silva's sacking. The end of the contract does not mean there are no remedies, ie breach. Watford may be contractually liable but not that Silva is 'technically contracted'.

Watford will likely argue that Silva impliedly breached the contract by his 'conduct.' The problem with this is that Silva never approached Everton but Everton approached him. Silva never made a representation for Everton in the media, he just never ruled it out. I can't remember the actual words Silva used. In any event, Watford FC have the burden of proof, not Silva to prove he did not do anything wrong.

Brian Williams
88 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:18:22
I hope you "pause the clock" while you spend time on here, Mr Ferns. ;-)
Steve Ferns
89 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:39:23
Don't worry, Brian, I am billing my client, Mr M Silva!
David Barks
90 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:40:23
I’m already sick of Silva and we haven’t even hired him yet. And I am actually in favor of him being the manager. Way too much preaching from both sides of the debate. He’s either awful or one of the best managers in the world.

I don’t think he is awful, I think he could do very well with a better squad than he had at Hull and Watford. I think his more attacking style will benefit our players and have a big impact on the atmosphere at Goodison.

But he’s also being oversold as some great coach that is on a different level than his peers. A little under promise over deliver is always a good idea. It seems like he is very likely to be he next manager. Can we just take a little break from discussing every single element of his management record and all the perceived philosophies of his coaching style?

As for the critique that another week has gone by without any transfers sorted in or out, nobody is making any moves right now. Honestly, look around Europe, there isn’t any action. The players are on holiday and we haven’t even had the Champions League final yet. Please show me the extensive list of our competitors signing all these players since the season ended.

Tony Everan
91 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:41:01
John (#89),

It would also be interesting to know whether any at Watford were at any point asking for a specific level of compensation, say £20-25M which we wouldn't entertain.

In other words, they're engaged with us over a business transaction, it wasn't clearly tapping up at all.

It would add fuel to the theory that they are throwing the toys out of the pram now they are getting zero.

Brian Williams
92 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:41:07
Haha Steve. Well now you've said that it explains eeeeverything!
John Keating
93 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:52:46
It appears Silva is a done deal.

Not my preference but if he is appointed then, like every other manager and player he gets my support until he deserves otherwise.

However, the more I read about him the more I see Martinez Mark II.

I hope I'm wrong but there's just that feeling it's gonna happen again!!

Jimmy Hogan
94 Posted 25/05/2018 at 15:55:13
Everyone knows the Pozzos are barking mad. That could be one reason why this is protracted.
John Wilson
95 Posted 25/05/2018 at 16:13:48
Tony Everan,

I think you're right.

It is a civil matter – a commercial remedy they're after. Tapping is just 'smoke and mirrors' – a distraction.

Even in tort (ie damages not contractual related) it is actual loss. I doubt Watford could prove actual loss. So, Watford instead seemingly cite football law and hope to sanction Everton that way, such as them being fined or lose Premier League points.

I think if Everton were fined it would be rather harsh to do it for last season, as then we could be technically relegated which would mean that the sanction would be retro-activated (backdated). I think if anything we'd just be fined. It is also delayed complaint too – Watford could have made the complaint when Marco Silva was sacked or just before he was sacked.

If there is a delay in signing Silva which causes Everton actual loss, Everton may have a claim for 'loss of amenity' (ie loss of manager for a period which puts Everton back.' Commercially, for Everton, it's easier to just pay Watford one a or few million.

James Stewart
96 Posted 25/05/2018 at 16:46:59
It's the groundwork, though, David @92. Liverpool have Keita wrapped up and Fekir is a done deal according to many sources now. Ditto United and the Fred and Alderweireld deals. Leicester just signed the Porto lad. Lots of clubs are making moves.

We on the other hand don't even have a manager and have a massive and mostly useless squad needing urgent major surgery. The Echo now saying Brands won't start doing anything till June 1st. Laughable. If Silva is the man, then get him in and stop pissing about.

Darren Hind
97 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:08:34

I don't think many people see Silva as "Awful". What you are witnessing here is reaction to some of the most ill-informed nonsense spouted on here since Koeman was brought on board.

When people hear stuff such as "Silva is a world class coach", the most natural reaction is to ask why the fuck he keeps getting sacked or relegated? That is not denigrating Silva. It is a perfectly legitimate response to a ridiculous claim.

When the same person claims that said "world-class coach" has gotten journeymen like Tom Cleverley "playing like Zinadine Zidane" then the sniggers and dismissals will not be confined to the back of the class.

People who witnessed the Burnley Egremont targeted by opposition and be cruelly exposed time and again last season, will have shaken their heads in total disbelief when they were informed that he would be Silva's "Main man"... his "John Terry" — That little gem kind of exposed the limitation of these silly claims and have been rightly dismissed.

Since then we have been bombarded by more embarrassing claims. A couple of YouTube clips have proven beyond doubt there is no one out there to touch Silva...

Then we are treated to a list players saying nice things about a guy who ensured they were in the team. By trawling through really old pieces trying to find the odd article or the odd complimentary quote from a player, we really do enter pinch of salt territory. They're hardly going to say he was a complete gobshite, are they?

Only the top players can do that, not average players who are uncertain of a starting place. Every manager gets these "compliments". For every glowing reference Silva has received, I could put up a quote from top-class players about Sam Allardyce... that's right. I said Sam Allardyce.

Players will always say nice things about a manager who is looking or looked after them, so let's try to form opinions based on what we see rather than regurgitate other peoples throw aways

I disagree that there is section who think Silva is awful, but I have not seen a crusade like this on here since somebody kept coming back to tell us how crucial Schneiderlin was to our system.

Daft ill-informed claims will always draw responses from the less gullible. It's those claims which are being shot down in flames — not Silva himself.

John Wilson
98 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:10:20
James, you have a point there.

You'd think Everton would have learnt from their annus horribilis from last season.

If there is any way to get Silva signed it should have been done so when Sam Allardyce walked out the door.

John Wilson
99 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:18:58
Darren Hind,

I quote sources, do you?

What I stated can be backed up?

What about yours?

Can you define 'circumstantial'? It means 'the circumstances'... ie, how things look or appear. It is not the evidence speaks for itself (res ipsa loquitur).

James Stewart
100 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:35:55
You'd think so wouldn't you John.

Silva doesn't even have a club so appointment him, let him get to work, then sort out the bullshit with Watford. Instead of letting it turn into another mess just like the Koeman fiasco.

Why wasn't he brought in straight after Allardyce went if he is the one they wanted?

Trevor Peers
101 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:42:21
If there is a problem getting an average manager like Silva in by next week or worse next month, then we should abandon our pursuit of him and go for Arteta with Wenger, or even Howe, which seems entirely possible, this situation needs resolving quickly.

The worst and most likely scenario with good ol' Everton is to take months to sort out the contractual minefield, that signing Silva now seems enevitably, but predicitably to entail.

We have, without doubt, the worst record of any football club in the country for sorting out contractual related issues, a sure sign of a badly run club, I really fear for us next season. The fans deserve so much better than this shambles.

Dermot Byrne
102 Posted 25/05/2018 at 17:45:36
Darren (#98), I think you may be right in what you say. It has seemed at times we have had Silva's team of agents on TW.

Some have done some research, others I think just want to believe in an improvement round the corner. Fair enough.

Most of us, including me, have no idea how he or anyone else will do. The manager is, except in rare cases, just one cog in a machine and not some glorious Messiah. They may be treated as such when successful but they know it is not done alone, and alone they could do little.

That is why I think the appointment of our new DoF may be a good one. Someone who can pull all the parts, including the manager, together and actually produce a working machine. Ferrari or Kia? Who knows.

But let's not think the new manager is so important. It takes all the parts. The encouraging thing is, the club's recent changes seem to indicate Moshiri is getting that.

Chris Gould
103 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:00:10
Silva was always coming. Brands will also have made the decision long before the end of the season. The two of them will have been discussing transfers for weeks and will hit the ground running come June 1st.

2-3 transfers wrapped up in the first couple of weeks (thinking positive).

Whether Silva will be any good is another matter. He seems to start well and then go to shite, but obviously that is far too simplistic a view. Time will tell. We will definitely find out.

Gerry Quinn
104 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:01:24
Sorry, but with all these delays and problems with Watford being stupid, does anyone else get that feeling that Eddie Howe will soon be announced as our new Manager? I have no problems with that whatsoever, like the guy and believe he can not only stabilise us, but get the School of Science back
Tony Marsh
105 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:02:00
Same Old Everton. Get rid of Elstone and replace with equally inept charity case. Isn't it the CEOs job to ensure smooth running of all things business-related including the finding a manager process?

I mean what credentials does this Barrett-Baxendale lady possess other than being a mate of Boys Pen Bill. Why is the club still lacking when it comes to people at the top? This is the 3rd year of Moshiri and things are getting worse.

Look how quickly Arsenal replaced Wenger. Some clubs are even making signings and all we Evertonians can do is sigh.

Get ready for Deadly Dave and Tim Cahill to come rolling into town...

James Stewart
106 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:18:23
A truly scary thought Gerry. Have you seen Bournemouth try to defend? Might has well get Martinez back.
Paul Birmingham
107 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:27:15
The delay in hiring a new boss and the other clubs are already moving in the window doesn't give the club much time to wheel and deal with World Cup, weeks away.

I'm hoping Marcel Brands has some golden nuggets lined up based on his scouting system. Further proof that Silva has been on a retainer.

I hope he's as good as is suggested as so far in the Premier League, there's nothing special, that he's done.

Only EFC, and so again, after the worst season in memory, we are waiting for a new manager. The journey to football's Garden of Eden, is gonna take years.

Geoffrey Williams
108 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:47:05
Really don't understand the delay if he is the chosen one. If the club are pursuing someone else and waiting for things to develop then that might be seen as reckless.
Neil Copeland
109 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:53:38
If Silva is the man and he is reporting directly to Brands then the reason for the delay is obvious. Bringing Silva in before Brands is officially on board potentially undermines Brands position with Silva feeling less accountable to him. If I am correct in this thinking then I applaud EFC for trying to do things correctly.
John G Davies
110 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:58:04

Another one who made a bad start to his managerial career.
Whoever gave him a chance is a fool.

Phil Walling
111 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:58:14
Neil, I've heard it all now! The delay in the announcement is almost certainly about money and June 1st.
Andy Crooks
112 Posted 25/05/2018 at 18:58:24
Steve Ferns, as you know, I admire your championing of Silva. I have no qualms about his appointment, though Howe would be the man for me (actually anyone but Allardyce would be).

However, I have spotted something in your evangelical support for the admirable Silva. It reminds me of my long-running and, yes fanatical, support for Shane Duffy. It became, almost, my life's work to see him as Everton captain. In fact, even writing this tempts me (I will resist) to put up an article demanding his return. You have put up fine reasons for the appointment of Silva. You can do no more. Let it go.

Tom Bowers
113 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:00:59
This is so typical of Everton. So much hoo-haa over signings, manager and players alike.

The Gylfi saga turned out to be much ado about nothing and he in the end became a dud signing for most of last season.

This kind of uncertainty doesn't bode well for the new season and I am having second thoughts about this guy Silva.

However, it may not be his fault but his initial success at Watford isn't much to get excited about.

Mark Tanton
114 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:02:26
Managers and clubs have to click, to connect. I think Silva and Everton could be a perfect fit, I really do. They’ll not hear a single bad word about him in Hull, despite what Watford say about him. I am genuinely excited, because he will modernise the club.
Neil Copeland
115 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:07:37
Phil, there is more than one potential reason for the delay I agree. Accountability is a big deal in this situation and important if we are to avoid the Koeman & Walsh fiasco.

Surely June 1st is only a financial factor if there is some sort of contract clause between Watford and Silva? If that is the case, why is he pursuing £750k from them? Remember that Brands comes on board on June 1st also and I think that is the main delay. Perhaps I am simply over-optimistic.

Darren Hind
116 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:08:06
John Wilson,

I could put a dozen examples up there, but then I would be doing exactly what I'm accusing you of doing. Heres one, just to make the point:

"Sam's a great manager because of his great man-management skills. He knows how to get the best out of his players. One of his strengths is his attention to detail. Sam is very good at making it enjoyable" – The great Jay-Jay Okotcha.

You believe that kind of shit? Go ahead, knock yourself out, research away. There is reams and reams of it.

Me? I know it's simply somebody else's opinion. My own eyes have told me it's bollocks and I don't buy it for one second.

If you want to have your opinion taken seriously, You need to stop putting somebody else's up there.

Paul Tran
117 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:17:03
Silva was dismissed, is apparently waiting to be paid off and there is an apparent 'break' clause which runs out on June 1st. That's why we haven't 'just gone and got him.'

In the meantime, we have a director of football who weighed things up and decided to join us, a coach to wanted to join us since last October and an owner who looks like he's starting to think about what he's doing.

I don't understand the premature high praise/slagging the individuals are getting. I'm cautiously optimistic and after last year, that's a more healthy state to be in.

Lev Vellene
118 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:27:37
Andy (#113),

I agree with that comment. I know what Steve Ferns feels, knows and will be championing forever! Most of us do, so he should know when to just shut up and let his message simmer into our minds, instead of becoming another annoying ring-your-doorbell religious nut...

I more than half-way agree with him, but if he rings my doorbell during dinner or afternoon-nap, I'll donate to someone else instead! ;D

John G Davies
119 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:31:50
Paul Tran,

That is far to reasonable a point. We need to understand he is hopeless. A relegation manager.

Björn Kausemann
120 Posted 25/05/2018 at 19:52:33
I can't understand why Moshiri is so focused to sign Silva. What is his success? Relegated with Hull, an average season with Watford?

Give Eddie Howe a chance. Staying in the Pemier League with Bournemouth is a great performance.

Tony Everan
121 Posted 25/05/2018 at 20:35:05
Calm down, as a few have said there is probably a break clause expiring May 31st.

Expect a news conference next Friday, June 1st.

If that comes and goes then let the genies bottle of vitriolic criticisms be uncorked.

Colin Wilson
122 Posted 25/05/2018 at 22:53:44
I really don't understand why Silva is in the mix, his record is pooh! I'm all for proving me wrong, don't see anyone really out there.

Again, Conte doesn't seem to get talked about much by blues. He's actually won the league, passionate, on his way out of his current club and we can throw a bunch of money at him.

Howe would be next choice; everyone else is a gamble really. Thankfully Brands gets paid for figuring this out and finding someone.

Guido Blumberg
123 Posted 25/05/2018 at 23:03:34
Silva? What are your achievements to be the manager of Everton? Watford is not the same as Everton. It seems that Farhad Moshiri, Bill Kenwright and company are still wrong in the decisions.

I prefer Mikel Arteta, or David Moyes, who is now a free agent. David Moyes showed us his ability in the last game. The club needs people who have a link with Everton. I have no doubt about his feelings towards Everton.

Assuming that Silva is successful, something that I do not think will happen, he will leave Everton on the first offer he has, because he has no link with the club.

Paul Mackay
124 Posted 25/05/2018 at 00:26:36
James (#106),

Unfair fella, when your budget at Bournemouth means you have to buy the likes of Distin aged 36 then you can hardly blame the manager for not having the best defence in the Premier League. Howe has done an amazing job given the size and resources of that club.

Susong Hermawan
126 Posted 26/05/2018 at 08:34:43
Howe or Ralf Rangnick for me...
Bobby Mallon
127 Posted 26/05/2018 at 08:48:32
Well, if we are talking managers that have Premier League experience, then what about Dyche or Chris Houghton in the same breath as Howe or Silva?

I'm sorry but Everton's next most important signing is the manager and we need to break the bank for Conte, Simeone, Laurent Blanc – someone of that stature, someone who has won something.

Ajay Gopal
128 Posted 26/05/2018 at 08:52:32
Neil (109),

I think you have hit the nail in the head. I mentioned something similar on another thread.

It makes absolute sense for Brands to welcome Silva into the club. I think they will both be working very closely together to assess the squad – in fact, I am pretty sure that Silva has been working during his hiatus, looking at our matches, looking at the various video recordings, analysing strengths/weaknesses, drawing up a list of players he wants rid of, training/fitness programs for players be wants to retain, list of players he would like to buy, that kind of stuff.

My worry is that Brands and Silva have to move fast in this truncated, World Cup, transfer window.

Len Hawkins
129 Posted 26/05/2018 at 08:59:47
Plllllllllllllllllleeeeeasssseeee stop raising my blood pressure – stop mentioning the name Moyes!!! He's a failure at whatever he's done since crapping on Everton Football Club – and he wasn't so ducking fusty when he was here.
Colin Glassar
130 Posted 26/05/2018 at 09:15:47
Guido (#123), you've lost the plot, mate.
Amit Vithlani
131 Posted 26/05/2018 at 09:36:22
"David Moyes showed us his ability in the last game. The club needs people who have a link with Everton. I have no doubt about his feelings towards Everton.

Assuming that Silva is successful, something that I do not think will happen, he will leave Everton on the first offer he has, because he has no link with the club."

Er, Guido, hate to break it to you but David Moyes took up an offer to manage Manchester United after running down his contract at Everton. The club got no compensation as a result. Your man also showed his "feelings" to the club, after joining United, by publicly stating that Baines and Fellaini should leave Everton.

If ya know yer 'istory, etc etc.

Colin Malone
132 Posted 26/05/2018 at 09:40:46
Another Dutchman on an EFC project. I get the impression that the next manager is answerable to Marcel Brands. That's a first for the Premier League. The only thing I can say is ... Ooops!
Brian Williams
133 Posted 26/05/2018 at 09:42:14
[Reads Guido's post and checks calendar...]

"No, not April 1st."

Phew... thank God for that, thought my early onset of dementia had accelerated.

Good one, Guido! You had a few of us there for a minute!

Roger Helm
134 Posted 26/05/2018 at 11:04:13
Guido, comebacks in sport hardly ever work, as we are seeing with Rooney. Moyes is a busted flush anyway.
Matthew Williams
139 Posted 26/05/2018 at 15:36:50
All part of Moshiri's blueprint, get a young gaffer in who is the flavour of the month, who will improve our play to break the glass ceiling of the top six and enter the Champions League to compete against the very best... Why? will not happen, even if it did, can we win it!?... again, no fucking chance, let's crawl before we run a fucking marathon, eh, Blues?

My blueprint is simple... three trophies in two seasons, it starts in mid-September and ends with us going head to head and toe to toe with the finest team on the planet in a one-off match... After that, anything is possible; no team would scare us and the world would be watching Everton Football Club back in the big time as winners — and it would be only the beginning folks!

Season 1: League Cup
Season 2: Europa League, Super Cup

3 Cups we have never won can be achieved if you target them and bin off the rest (for now). For me, the Premier League would be just an extension of pre-season, with players who perform cherry-picked for my Cup teams. Failure to target the Cups will only add to the current misery of being also-rans and a team that once was truly great.

Enjoy the Moshiri Bandwagon, Blues... I certainly won't be jumping on it.

Kieran Kinsella
140 Posted 26/05/2018 at 16:12:26
John Wilson

Where to begin? Disclaimer, I am not pro or anti Silva as I don't think he has been around one place long enough at a high level to make an assessment but I would say I am glad you're not my attorney.

In your thrice posted epic you state " Please make comments not based on hearsay (ie thing said or heard from other people with no evidence to back it up)." But then you proceed to offer a series of thins said or heard by online sources/journos from other people.

Your "evidence" so support Silva includes comments from Collymore -- who expressly says that Silva "isn't ready for Everton" and could be a great manager "IF" he learns the English way. That isn't exactly what I would call an endorsement.

You also cite the comments of two people who are critical of him and in a Trumpian move present that as evidence of his quality on the basis that you dislike the said people.

The further comments about how nice he is etc and his work ethic sound a lot like comments about Martinez (his L shaped couch, his positivity, him teaching Osman and Baines new things in training every day etc). The remarks about his prior success at unfancied Estoril could easily be replicated if you were considering appointing Mike Walker post-Everton (he was amazing at little Norwich, beat Bayern Munich, close to winning the league etc, didn't have backing at Everton etc etc).

Additionally, even if you had been successful in finding a bunch of "hearsay" to say how wonderful he is -- which plainly you weren't. What would it prove? We have spent the past few weeks dismissing praise of Sam Allardyce from journalists, players, coaches, even Everton legends like Peter Reid. And yet, we dismiss it based on our own interpretation of the events we have seen with our eyes. If you move away from perception to hard facts, e.g. results, then Allardyce clearly has a better Prem track record than Silva. Ergo, it is a leap of faith to appoint Silva based upon tangible facts. This doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good appointment, it just means that your argument (entirely based on conflicting opinions) is easily dismissed when compared with many more opinions and indeed facts on Sam.

I have no problem with you defending the merits of Silva but I do object when you get on a high horse and order other people to desist from making contrarian posts.

James Stewart
141 Posted 26/05/2018 at 16:50:45
@124 Is it though Paul? Nothing to do with not having the best defence for me it's about his philosophy. Bournmouth piss about with it in position at the back more than we ever did under Martinez. I personally never want to see that brand of suicidal football at Goodison ever again.

The fact that 15% of us on here are calling for Howe is highly unsettling. He would be an absolute disaster. I'd take anyone over him.

Ken Williams
142 Posted 26/05/2018 at 16:51:24
What is it with the Everton board that they cannnot forward plan. It was obvious that SA would not be here for a second season and yet as a club we are still dithering over the next manager. Arsenal have there’s in place and as a club can move forward, Everton as usual are lagging behind. Hopefully when Brands is in place we will see a more professional approach
Jay Wood

143 Posted 26/05/2018 at 17:47:15
Ken @ 142.

I could agree with you on past history, but surely not this month.

Within 48-72 hours of the season ending, the club announced:

* a radical shake-up at board level
* dismissed Sam Allardyce and all his coaching staff
* announced the appointment of Brands as DoF and the departure of Steve Walsh

That wasn't 'knee-jerk'. That it happened so swiftly and was announced in the co-ordinated synchronised manner that it was speaks of something long in the planning with lots of background meetings and preparation.

That Brands hasn't officially got his feet under the table at Everton yet, or (the seemingly inevitable) appointment of Marco Silva as manager is still to be confirmed has, I fancy, more to do with Brands serving out the notice of his contract at PSV and some possible severance clause Silva might have with Watford.

I'll give the club the benefit of the doubt on this one for the time being.

But if the World Cup starts and there is still no confirmation of Everton's next management, my benevolent attitude may shift!

John Wilson
144 Posted 26/05/2018 at 18:02:11
Kieran Kinsella,

I never said I am a fan of Marco Silva. I merely wanted TWers to look objectively at the situation.

Dealing with Allardyce point - he proved himself in my view to have little in the way of lateral thinking tactics. Whereas Marco Silva's has an ability to pre-empt his opponent teams. Marco Silva can work with what has. It seems Silva could make something of Everton's mess-up for a team whereas Koeman, the temporary coach, and Allardyceprove they do not possess this cognitive type of skillset.

Whether or not Collymore supported Silva in this interim period it is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he believes Silva is talented. Res ipsa loquitur: ''Marco Silva has the ability to reach the top.'

Per this "You also cite the comments of two people who are critical of him and in a Trumpian move present that as evidence of his quality on the basis that you dislike the said people."

Too ambiguous for me to comment substantively as there is no material information go off save I could attempt to answer or not answer your intended point where there were such endeavours. In short, if you're to make a point – make it; do not imply one but then provide little for the audience to respond to. It is also either ad hominem or non sequitur to make personal inferences against me in terms of any politics I may or may not favour, and or, where there is no logical sequencing of events, respectively.

I merely did some basic research citing my sources along the way, as it's the academic way.

Secondly, hearsay for court and hearsay in general are two different concepts. The latter is making statements based on what people have said that may or may not be true. When the source quotes what others have said word for word, ie, in 'quotation marks', then there is an assumption it is true - especially in terms of Marco Silva's ex football teams he managed in terms of his Portuguese connection.

By all means, argue with the points I raise, ie, persuade – but ensure there is merit in your persuasion. If you make a point, back it up with some type of coherent view.

Kieran Kinsella
145 Posted 26/05/2018 at 18:34:50
John Wilson,

Sorry I thought since you had posted the same information three times, you would remember your own words when you cited Thompson and Merson as being critical of Silva and used that as a case in his favor.

I didn't mean to infer you agree with Trump politically – I mean that your use of that information was Trumpian in terms of flipping a case against him to make it seem Pro-Silva.

As for Collymore, yes he did say ''Marco Silva has the ability to reach the top," but he also said – according to you – "but he is not ready to take on pressure of the Everton job yet." In your last post you said "Whether or not Collymore supported Silva in this interim period it is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that he believes Silva is talented." Given that we are talking about Silva taking the Everton job, I would argue it is more relevant to highlight his view that Silva is "not ready" rather than his comment on his "ability." We are looking for a manager now for Everton, not some other club, not some time in the future.

Also, you say Unsworth "the temporary coach, and Allardyce prove they do not possess this cognitive type of skillset." Unsworth was caretaker for a few games with mixed results. Silva was the permanent manager of Hull (relegated) and Watford (sacked after a lengthy losing run). What is the basis for dismissing Unsworth's cognitive ability and at the same time arguing Silva would be better?

Unsworth won the Premier League 2, and has never had a permanent senior post. His temporary record at Everton stands up against Silva's Premier League record.

I don't know if Unsworth or Silva would be any good but I am open to people posting their views without shooting them down based on a narrow series of contradictory snippets from Collymore, Merson, etc as the basis for settling the dispute.

Jerome Shields
146 Posted 27/05/2018 at 00:21:36
Has anyone mentioned Silva being Manager of Barcelona in the future yet?
John Wilson
147 Posted 27/05/2018 at 10:21:55
Kierin Kinsella

I never did this: " to people posting their views without shooting them down..."

Look, it's like this. When we're debating (see immediate paragraph below for definitions), in terms of Silva - we do not have a real model to work with, ie Silva is not 'yet' Everton's manager. So, the only way to analyse Silva is via an hypothetical equivalent - in real terms we need to equate the real Silva to an hypothetical equivalent version of him who exists as he is but does not exist in terms of application to Everton. The only way to do this is to look at his 'transferrable skills' versus his 'weaknesses' and comparing to an hypothetical Silva (potential, shall we say).

Does Collymore et al undertake this type of examination of Silva, or for that matter, do Merson and Thompson, in all likelihood the answer is likely to be no. Why, well - they're just professional footballers - not necessarily 'thinkers.' In my view, Merson, Collymore etc likely view managers on their familiarity, ie what they know (from experience) of previous managers in the Premier League. For Collymore to say, he is not ready for Everton. The media have a certain view of Everton and Collymore, Merson, Thompson will generally articulate this view. In terms of Merson's prowess of a manager - is he really qualified to have an opinion? By all means these ex footballers are qualified to discuss 'football' but to discuss relatively unknown managers in my view it's where those qualifications end. It would take a manager to be able to compare his self with an hypothetical manager, albeit with Silva's characteristics. Silva's stats are only important insofar as it may indicated his 'transferrable' manager skills.

I don't believe I was not open to people posting their view, with what you either believe or perceive as 'shooting people down.' How does one shoot someone down. First of all let's establish the nature of TW; is it a forum for debate? If so, shouldn't a debate be at least quite credible insofar as it is, or should be, expected for persons herein to making statements in light of the facts.

Look it's easy to make statements on some 'say what you see' basis. However, if we're looking for sufficient information to make a judgement on Silva, we should at least not make superficial observations. By superficial I mean the most easiest and obvious answer is likely to be the wrong one, if we're to apply cognitive skills.

Ray Smith
148 Posted 27/05/2018 at 10:41:55
I am glad to see the back of Allardyce.

Is Silva coming? Same old Everton, dither, dither!

Or have Moshiri & Brands got someone else up their sleeve?

I will give Moshiri the benefit of the doubt over Silva; however, it has all the hallmarks of another fiasco.

Surely I'm wrong???

Phil Walling
149 Posted 27/05/2018 at 11:18:35
I can't ever remember a prospective manager to have been argued over as much as Silva. Even Martinez, who was so familiar as manager of our nearest neighbours and had recently won the FA Cup having beaten Everton on the way to doing so, was a less controversial figure.

Clearly, Moshiri, for all his money, is not a man to jump into action if a few quid can be argued over for weeks on end. The negotiations over Sigurdsson proved that — and what did he save in the end? But such a pity that he was so easily satisfied when Manu came shopping for Lukaku!

As Ray Smith says above, dither, dither is the order of the day although this time round I believe his decision who was to be the next of what promises to be a host of managers under his regime, was made last November — but Watford's demand for compensation just got in his way.

But whatever happens (or doesn't) in the coming week, we can only hope that, after two years on the scene, Moshiri has learned which of his advisers to trust and has got us "a good 'un"!

If not, he'll soon hear about it!

Paul Birmingham
150 Posted 27/05/2018 at 11:35:48
Looks like we wait until Marcel Brands is on board, then it's countdown.

Typical EFC drawn-out saga.

John Wilson
151 Posted 27/05/2018 at 11:42:00
Silva could take us to the Champions League over 4 or 5 seasons. We could have got Howe but Moshiri seemingly has his eyes fixed on Silva for a long-term manager. Dyche's football is depressing more akin to Allardyce (park the bus).

I do love European football though - as it's so fast, pressing, attractive to watch. English football is more 'get stuck in' ie predictable... but Spanish is special to watch.. it's like watching Man City – in that a goal could come from nowhere in seconds. Portuguese football – well it produced one of the best in the world in Ronaldo, didn't it? And one of the best Premier League managers in Mourinho and Villas-Boas. I hope Silva has fraction of what Pochettino possesses; if so, we could go places.

Silva is young too and has a Mourinho about him, but where he is loud, and arrogant, apparently Silvia is just quietly confident.

Silva could be our man if not – we'll be resigned to spend mediocrity in the Premier League. We'll just bring in another fire-fighter, Allardyce or some other to keep us up. We should at least take some risks if we're to be rejuvenated. Silva is free. Give him that chance.

Steve Ferns
152 Posted 27/05/2018 at 12:05:06
Funniest rumour of the week:

Silva to Udinese. Yes, Udinese are owned by the Pozzos. Yes, the same Pozzos who own Watford. Yes, the same ones who sacked him just a few months ago.

If they can't tempt Silva, they might move the Watford manager to Italy and get a new manager in at Watford.

How long has the current Udinese manager been in charge for? One month!

Tom Bowers
153 Posted 27/05/2018 at 12:52:27
Let's not get too carried away with any new appointment. Nobody is a certainty to be a redeemer/saviour no matter how big the reputation.

Yes, we all know now that neither Koeman nor Allardyce were the answers but Everton have had a lot of failures long before them. It's a very tricky business with no guarantees of early success.

A lot of younger managers have been around for some years in the Premier League and are still trying to get a team that will match the top 5 or six but the massive money they have lures the best foreign managers and players which effectively keeps them up there.

Dyche is the pick of them, having managed to get a really good Burnley team close last season despite a minimum budget and defensively they were very good despite selling Keane.

Silva may also turn out to be a damp squid after all the hoopla but there aren't many options.

John Wilson
154 Posted 27/05/2018 at 13:23:19
Maybe, Tom,

But I'd give Silva that chance. He just might give us a pleasant surprise.

Pat Waine
155 Posted 28/05/2018 at 16:49:56
Koeman had plenty of experience and wrecked the club.

I think if we are taking a risk, I would risk Arteta and not Silva.

Colin Glassar
156 Posted 28/05/2018 at 22:51:13
Silva to be named before the weekend, according to the Daily Mirror.
Dennis Stevens
157 Posted 28/05/2018 at 23:15:07
Aren't all squids damp??
Jon Withey
158 Posted 29/05/2018 at 11:54:41
Marco Silva is 99% likely to be the new manager. according to Sky – whatever that means.
Paul McCoy
159 Posted 29/05/2018 at 12:03:29
Dennis and Tom, it's 'damp squib'. A squib of course being a small firework, not an aquatic creature which, as you've rightly pointed out, would be always wet.

I've no idea who the Everton manager should be though!

Dennis Stevens
160 Posted 29/05/2018 at 12:16:23
Aye Paul, keep your squibs dry & your squids wet — let's not venture to discuss squits!
Anthony Hawkins
161 Posted 29/05/2018 at 14:14:17
I'm confused over which weekend we're supposed to be appointing a new manager – and which side of said weekend it's supposed to be announced.

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