Pickford plays as England rout Panama

Sunday, 24 June, 2018 94comments  |  Jump to most recent
Clive Brunskill/Getty Images
Jordan Pickford was in goal as England hammered the Panama 6-1 in Nizhny Novgorod to move to the top of Group G.

Two goals from ex-Everton defender John Stones, a hat-trick by Harry Kane (his third was credited to him after Ruben Loftus-Cheek's strike deflected off his heel and past the wrong-footed goalkeeper), and a beauty from Jesse Lingard had put Gareth Southgate's side 6-0 up before Pickford was even really tested.

The Blues' 'keeper made his first save in the 65th minute when he stood up well to block Michael Murillo's shot as he steamed in on the overlap but he could do nothing about Felipe Baloy's first-time effort that gave the Panamanians something to cheer.

The substitute was unmarked as he connected with a free kick and swept it into the corner.  

Reader Comments (94)

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Darren Hind
1 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:02:37
You'da welcomed that goal Kane was given if you have backed him for the Golden Boot.

The Yanks are pitching in, but there seems to be a lot of apathy towards this World Cup. Perhaps it's because we don't have an Irish team to cheer on or one of the other British nations.

This place was buzzing when the Welsh boys were doing their stuff four years ago. I remember one particular thread being huge fun.

Will Mabon
2 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:07:32
Finally, the kind of result and performance that should occur 90% of the time against vastly inferior opposition – a departure for the England team.

Personally I dislike this recent-times development in the way goals are credited. Kane made no conscious input whatsoever to that goal hence it is not his and he did not score a hattrick. The goal was a deflected goal by Loftus-Cheek. The same idiocy occurs when shots bounce accidentally off defenders' arses and are credited as own goals.

Anyway, excuse my cynicism but it looks like we'll have to wait for the inevitable collapse.

Sam Hoare
3 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:43:38
Will, they're only own goals if the initial shot was heading off target.

I've got Kane top scorer and England to win, so I'm quite pleased by that deflection for the third!

Peter Gorman
4 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:48:46
Well aren't you full of the joys of summer, Will.
Will Mabon
5 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:55:56
Sam, seems nuts when there is no deliberate input.

Peter, I save all my negativity for the England team, makes a great outlet.

Martin Nicholls
6 Posted 24/06/2018 at 17:55:58
Will – I'm with you! I know what the rules are but, in my view, if a player makes no conscious effort to score, he shouldn't be credited with scoring!
Brian Abbsey
7 Posted 24/06/2018 at 18:29:00
This debate might be worth a thread of its own but I'll chuck in my two penneth.

If an attempt on goal which is off target is deflected into the goal by a defender, it's classed as an own-goal and credited to the defender. If it is deflected into the goal by a fellow attacker, consciously or not, it should be credited to him. After all, if he wasn't there it would miss the target.

[Dons tin hat!]

Brian Abbsey
8 Posted 24/06/2018 at 18:31:22
Martin, so who would you give the goal to?
Jamie Crowley
9 Posted 24/06/2018 at 18:31:35
I'm beginning to understand the Liverpudlian apathy towards England.

Check this:

Go to the 15 second mark. The 3-4 meatheads in the front row after the goal going all, "sun's out, guns out" is unbearable.

Is everyone there a West Ham fan? I'm trying to picture this "Engerlund" fan you fine people speak of, and that's the only mental image I can come up with?

All the above aside, I'm happy for England and want them to do well. Good team. And with Jordan in the net, I don't want to see anything happen that would have the English media turn on him.

James Flynn
10 Posted 24/06/2018 at 18:32:42
Well, since England and Belgium are both thru, hopefully their game will give 50-60 minutes or so of all-out attacking football.

That would be a fun watch.

Brian Abbsey
11 Posted 24/06/2018 at 18:35:00
Jamie, well said mate. I can't understand the shite comments re a team that has won two games with an 8-2 aggregate. Get a grip lads.
Jackie Barry
12 Posted 24/06/2018 at 19:03:16
Good game, glad to see some of the lads putting in performances worthy of the shirt.
Kim Vivian
13 Posted 24/06/2018 at 19:10:45
I'm with Will.... can't raise an ounce of passion so far for this England, and I agree re goals/deflections etc.

James Flynn
14 Posted 24/06/2018 at 19:20:17
Jamie (9) - You know we have plenty of those "bros" over here too at our sporting events. They position themselves wherever the cameras are and do everything possible to go "viral".

I give them a low "Bro-rating" overall. Clearly rehearsed, but not enough. Tried wayyyyy to hard to look spontaneous. Guessing even there mates will mock them.

Back to England and Belgium, I watched all 4 games. Both teams seemed to take the "Attacking is the best defense" approach. Fun watching. Hope it continues next game.

James Hopper
15 Posted 24/06/2018 at 19:21:54
Still loving it. I’m ignoring the naysayers. They’re only shitting on their own fun.

Through the group stages, a thrashing of Panama, the players look up for it and I believe England can go far.

Martin Nicholls
16 Posted 24/06/2018 at 20:05:15
Brian (#8) – a very good question and one I anticipated that my post would prompt. Short answer is I don't know – maybe to "neutral" or A N Other? I know that sounds daft but perhaps fairer than crediting it to a player who did not consciously have any input into it?
Jay Harris
17 Posted 24/06/2018 at 20:22:56
We've played Panama and Tunisia and the scores have totally flattered us.

Granted Pickford hasn't had a lot to do but we still haven't kept a clean sheet and the whole backline including Henderson have looked as shaky as a wobbly jelly.

Sterling has yet to show why he is there and without Lingard and Kane we would look very ordinary.

Andy Crooks
18 Posted 24/06/2018 at 20:25:20
The last England team I cheered was managed by Alf Ramsey. The team that destroyed but lost to Poland at Wembley was a really top squad. Poland beat Argentina and finished third that year.

I hated the loathsome spice boys era but I am warming to this lot. We have our own admirable Pickford in goal and some players that are not instantly obnoxious. I thought the appointment of Southgate was insane but he has played a blinder and is a likeable man. Tough too.

Things are going to get interesting and England have looked as good as any. Please just not let the Sun, Star, Mail print flags for our windows and turn a good time into jingoism.

Eric Paul
19 Posted 24/06/2018 at 20:33:18

We've played the same teams as Belgium and we're top of the fuckin' table – what do you fuckin' want???

Tony Abrahams
20 Posted 24/06/2018 at 20:34:46
Early days but this team have already surpassed the so-called golden generation. Panama were poor, but they couldn't live with England's intensity, even though the weather was roasting hot.

I thought England actually played better in the first half against Tunisia, but they got the penalty decisions today though, which made things easier, and although they are going to play against better teams, I'm not sure any of them have got a set-piece delivery to rival Kieran Trippier just now?

Colin Glassar
22 Posted 24/06/2018 at 21:10:19
I agree with Andy 20, but the last England team which got me off my seat was the ‘98 team which was robbed by the Argies and that cheating little shit, Simeone.

The Keegan - Fat Sam years killed off any interest I had in England but Southgate is restoring some pride back into us.

Phil Sammon
23 Posted 24/06/2018 at 21:13:46
Andy (#20),

How is printing or displaying a national flag at a football tournament, jingoism? I didn't see anyone accusing the buoyant, flag-waving Panamanians of that kind of thing.

Chris James
24 Posted 24/06/2018 at 21:15:28
I think we've been quietly efficient without the usual furore. We played pretty well in patches but looked most dangerous from set-pieces (not a bad thing, but truth) and there's less of the prancing pony attitude that we had with the golden generation (which seemed to ruin a whole generation of players, including our own Ross Barkley).
Paul A Smith
25 Posted 24/06/2018 at 21:17:25
Great win for England, so much potential to go in and win this tournament if the will is there? Said before this World Cup, I would like to see us sign Loftus Cheek, Rashford and Delph – 3 great potential English players, all need regular games and could make a massive difference to Everton.
Andy Crooks
26 Posted 24/06/2018 at 21:35:17
Phil, I see your point. Going to the game and supporting your team is great. My point is the papers I named will print a flag one day and a turnip the next. Their agenda is odious.
Bill Watson
27 Posted 24/06/2018 at 22:18:39
Andy (#20 and #28),

I totally agree with both your posts. Our media totally lacks any objectivity and England are either crap or great.

I was listening to the Germany v Sweden game on Radio 5 and the tone of triumphalism at the prospect of the Germans going out was nauseating. Once the tabloids start giving out flags I'm out.

Really hoping Kane gets the Golden Boot and, of course, that will also mean England do well.

I'm rooting for Kane because, for some reason, the RS hate him!

Tommy Carter
28 Posted 24/06/2018 at 22:44:04
@29 Bill - The RS also hate Ronaldo and they hated the fact that Michael Owen was an England hero.

They're a strange crowd and big part of what mystifies me about our City's attitude towards England.

I remember being in a city centre pub for the final of Euro 2008. It was full of RS in LFC shirts cheering hard for Spain against Germany. Almost like they were Spanish. I don't know to this day where that passion came from. If Germany play Spain in a final this year, will they back Ramos the same as what they did that night? I don't believe for a second that they will.

The point is this, as an Englishman, as much as I dislike Henderson and Trent Alexander Arnold and a few others, there is no doubt that I want them to perform well and win for my country.

Sport is a competition and It's us vs them. You are born with citizenship and nationality and, for all the positives and negatives that may bring for people, at the end of the day, it's pretty much all you've got and the starting point for anything you ever go on to achieve in life. If you were born here, it's because, over many generations, your own flesh and blood decided that this was the best place for you to be born.

I'm as big an Evertonian as there is. But I'm an even bigger England fan.

Steve Ferns
29 Posted 24/06/2018 at 23:19:16
Tommy, I was born here, because four branches of my family came over from Ireland and couldn't afford the boat to America.

The way the rest of England treated the Irish, the way the rest of the country has treated people from Liverpool, it's something some of us don't forget and it gets passed on down the generations.

In 2014, I was right behind England, because of Baines, Gerrard, Jagielka, Rooney, and Barkley. 3 blue local lads, a local redshite, and a lifelong blue from just down the East Lancs Road, it's never got much better than that for me. But we were poor and we deservedly went out early; I put a lot of it down to shite direction from the manager.

I suppose for some, you're devoted to your country and you'll cheer on the Three Lions, some are devoted to the club and adhere to the rivalry above everything, and some are like me and devoted to the city.

Give it another 20 years, as the anti-Liverpool sentiments and jokes continue to subside (you don't hear them anywhere near as much off the millennials) and maybe the likes of myself will feel more patriotic towards the country. But I'll always put city above country, it's just the way I was raised.

Ian Jones
30 Posted 24/06/2018 at 23:30:08
Tommy, I am guessing Liverpool fans picked Spain to cheer on because of the connection with Pepe Reina, Arbeloa, Xabi Alonso and Torres.
Ash Moore
31 Posted 24/06/2018 at 23:48:50
Everton is a funny club for it, we've a lot of fans who either actively dislike the national team or are at best ambivalent about it.
Peter Gorman
32 Posted 24/06/2018 at 23:50:13
I'm seeing the same points made by some of the same TWers on more than one England thread and I'm finally curious enough to dip into this whole patriotism debate.

I agree with every point made so far about the media, who are truly pathetic but I don't quite get the objection to flag-waving in general.

I suppose I should ask Bill Watson as you've made the point a couple of times but what exactly is it about the flag you object to? Is it just flags in general or that particular flag? For me and most the flag is just the symbol of the nation and as good a thing to wave as any; do you equally refrain from waving an Everton flag? Do you not see the merit of Everton scarves, shirts or cuckoo clocks? It is all just symbolism — I know some fans are not so into it but you do come across as having a particular disdain for the England flag, correct me if I am wrong, is there a reason for that?

The points articulated by Steve Ferns are not that uncommon and it seems to be a particularly English trait for football fans to have such indifference or disdain for the national team. I genuinely can't think of any other nation where this is the case.

Perhaps it is all just a curious byproduct of the English footballing heritage, that the tribalism of the club trumps all else, but I've never quite understood why the love for the club and country are seen as somehow mutually exclusive.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to support both.

John Pierce
33 Posted 25/06/2018 at 00:06:22
Let's face it, England have played poor football under consecutive managers since Venables and Hoddle. One result in Germany apart, we've been sterile and passive.

Just maybe under Southgate the strength is the team, not individuals; that weakness has made them play more to a pattern and it's enjoyable.

It may be only nascent, but there's a plan there.

Very Everton, that.

Steve Ferns
34 Posted 24/06/2018 at 00:09:57
It comes down to relatability as well, doesn't it, Peter?

I relate to Everton, the players and other fans. Most of us are born in or around the same place. Most of us have working class backgrounds, and the same ideas. Everton struggled to identify with Martinez's football because it wasn't representative of our ideals.

I believe that our ideals, and the same with Liverpool, and I believe probably the Manchester clubs, is football that is played hard but fair. Quick tempo. Strong in the tackle, never giving an inch, fighting for every ball. But also with flair and a willingness to pass the ball and get down the wings with skill, and to get the ball to a big number 9, who scores the goals. We don't like slow football, we don't like passing for passing's sake, the ball needs to be moving up the pitch, everything needs purpose. It comes from the fact that the teams were representing big cities heavy on industry and built on hard work.

I think England's Football Team did subscribe to a lot of these ideals. but it's been going away from it a lot over the years, as England has become more "continental". Then there is the England fans, not the public at large, but the diehard England fans who go to every game. This includes that bloody band, "the great escape", the national anthem being belted out every half hour or so, and the repertoire of songs. It doesn't fit in with who we are. England doesn't have a national anthem, but we use that of the UK, and some fail to see just how divisive it is. The UK is barely a Christian country, so do we really want to sing about God? And if you do believe in God, do you really want Him to save the Queen?

There's too many things about the England Football Team that is just not identifiable for a lot of us. But sure, if England go from strength to strength, more and more of us with apathy towards England Football Team will get swept up in it and, if we do win the World Cup, then I'm sure the whole country will be partying.

Andrew Clare
35 Posted 24/06/2018 at 00:13:03
The England flag has dodgy connections and so do a lot of the travelling England supporters. That's what puts me off.

I'd like to see them do well but my main wish is to see a great football team win the World Cup.

Everton will always be number one for me. England I can take or leave.

John Pierce
36 Posted 25/06/2018 at 00:28:59
Steve, nice post that. I'd say the telling bit for me is England are playing more like how ‘we' (as in 'an Evertonian') wants, partly as you accurately describe.

Far higher tempo and a reliance on a centre-forward who is strong, and scores goals of all types.

It's still a bit too dainty and pass pass pass but there's a plan.

Joe Royle was the closest thing to it after Howard Kendall. Everything else has been a pale imitation.

Jamie Crowley
37 Posted 25/06/2018 at 01:23:57
Dave Evans @ 13,

You ask:

I wonder if your discomfort would be the same if the fans had been of another country? Brazil? Holland? Argentina? France?

When men who look like an air hose was stuffed up their ass, they're so "pumped up", and their first reaction to a goal is to rip their shirts off to show how fucking "manly" they are and how much they "care", not to mention part of the celebration being to kick the fuck out of the barrier in front of them?

Well yes, it doesn't matter what their nationality is. I'd not like it. Thank you for asking.

Oh, and steer clear of meathead, tough-guy douche bags. They're just trouble.

David Israel
39 Posted 25/06/2018 at 01:47:26
Tommy (#30), I'm with you, mate! I'm fourth generation English on my father's side, and I know what my great-grandfather and his family escaped from, and what a beautiful haven they found in this country. One of my modest ways to repay the welcome my family received is to support the English national team.
James Hill
40 Posted 25/06/2018 at 01:52:50
Steve Ferns – speak for yourself. I have two grandfathers who fought for our country, flag and queen. I have a father who served his country for 22 years. And I have seen first-hand the pride in our flag in a battle.

I despise people like you who suggest their limited view of the world is representative of the majority.

Bill Watson
41 Posted 25/06/2018 at 02:02:03
Peter (#34),

I have no objection to the English flag, in itself, just in the way it's used and by whom. Steve Ferns articulated this far better than I could.

England do seem to attract a particular type of obnoxious supporter that other countries don't. This may be because of an extreme-right racist element. This was certainly the case some years ago.

Some posters have expressed surprise that many Evertonians put club before country. Maybe that shouldn't be such a surprise: it's often said that Liverpool is in England but not part of England.

Steve Ferns
42 Posted 25/06/2018 at 02:03:02
James, thank you for your service for the country. It is appreciated. Like yourself, my grandparents also fought for the country, one of which fought for a country he was not even born in. They definitely did not fight for the King or Queen though. They fought for their families and friends.

I never once professed to speak for a majority; apologies if you believe that is what I meant. I even gave three groups of people as I saw them, but did not say any of which is in the majority.

David Ellis
43 Posted 25/06/2018 at 02:10:02
I don't think patriotism in Liverpool is different to anywhere else in England – especially as it relates to the England team. There is less interest in the international game because the standards are now generally lower than that of the Premier League. We now know our best players are not the world's best.

Prior to the mid-90s, we didn't know that until we came up against Maradona, Pele, Eusebio, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Socrates, Zico etc etc – where the class gap is obvious. The World Cups were special because you were watching football on a whole new level. That's just not the case anymore. I don't think Brazil could live with Man City for example.

1986 was the high point for me because it was a good England team stuffed with good Everton players and the team only got going once they started playing Peter Reid instead of Wutch Bilkins (recently RIP) – and only then because he got sent off and was suspended. A shame Bracewell was injured that summer (and never the same player again) – we could have won it with him in the side.

I've never emotionally recovered from too many penalty shoot-out defeats: 1990, 1996, and then against Portugal when Rooney was injured in 2004. After tha,t it was all Spice Boys, Stevie G and WAGS. I couldn't relate to the team at all.

However, I kind of like Southgate and, as others have said, the current team seems to be professional and not obviously obnoxious chavs on the lash. So they are tempting me back.

But let's face it, the defence is awful and they will get ripped apart at some point. That Panama goal – they let the ball bounce into the penalty area. How is this possible???

Peter Gorman
44 Posted 25/06/2018 at 02:15:54
Thanks for your responses, Bill and Steve. I've heard the point about Liverpool not being part of England a few times but can't say I've ever quite grasped it, though I know the city of my father is nothing if not unique (for my own part, I am German-Irish and have never had a problem waving either flag or indeed supporting their national teams, or even that of England, where I occasionally reside).

I'm not overly convinced that England attracts a more obnoxious type of supporter than most other countries. I can think of far worse examples without even leaving the Balkans. Even if you were to plot the obnoxiousness of fans on a scale from Russia to Japan, although you'd find England closer to the former there'd be many countries in-between and, even then, I don't think you could fairly equate England with the majority of them.

At any rate, the virtues and vices of patriotism aside, our very own Pickford is tending goal so that is a reason enough to give them a big cheer.

Jamie Crowley
45 Posted 25/06/2018 at 02:25:24
Ten years ago, when I was contemplating "Who do I support if I'm gonna marry a club?" – I had a friend who was a diehard Celtic fan.

I liked Celtic. It seemed a perfect fit. I'm Catholic, and the name 'Crowley' should make it fairly apparent where this branch of Americans came from. And yes, Celtic is a Scottish team but it definitely has a strong Irish heritage and culture to it, I think it's very safe to say.

But, in the end, I picked Everton (was chosen, ya, ya, ya).


Because I thought the Club was beautiful. It was beautiful in the sense that there was no "division", just "Blue". I couldn't abide the sectarian mindset and environment in the Celtic ranks.

Everton had Catholics and Protestants. And they didn't care, from my research at any rate, which you were. There's only Everton.

There seemingly were Steve Ferns types in the Everton fanbase, and also James Hill types. And they seemingly, from afar, respected one another's backgrounds and beliefs enough to only care about one thing in the end: Everton.

Here in America, my true Blue friend is Protestant. He constantly jags me about having five kids, being Catholic, etc. It's all in good fun. The man played for Everton in the FA Youth Cup – he's the Bluest human being I've ever met. We get along better than I can describe in words. I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit for him.

So root for England or don't. Doesn't matter to me, to be honest. But in 10 years of adopted Blueness I think (think!) I've learned one thing.

The amount of respect Blues pay one another, despite their opinions, backgrounds, religious beliefs, quirks, all of it? That mutual respect and acceptance is pretty fucking cool.

And that's a major reason why I tell foolish, naive Americans, who support Man Utd, Spurs, or Chelsea, with a shit ton of pride and a swelling chest – "I support Everton!"

Your beauty is in your diversity. I'd suggest you not ever forget that.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Jay Harris
46 Posted 25/06/2018 at 04:19:05
I think we should distinguish between fighting for freedom and family and friends and a few football games in the World Cup.

Because some people don't feel the connection with the national team or even so-called "Royalty" does not mean they do not stay loyal to the country despite the obvious political bias towards the South.

Many a scouser gave their lives in service so that we could remain a free country and enjoy freedom of speech.

Of course we should take pride and enjoy a successful World Cup expedition but all the judge-and-jury experts on here should be ashamed of themselves for jumping on any hint of criticism or lack of support of a team or manager a lot of us would not have picked... and, while they have had good results against two of the poorest sides ever to grace a World Cup competition, the jury is still out on their ability against a good team.

Darren Hind
47 Posted 25/06/2018 at 04:59:32
Steve, give it a rest, lad.

Like a lot of people from this City, my ancestors came over from Ireland, but I don't feel remotely Irish either. I don't have any recollection of the way they were treated by the English; I just know they certainly knew how to look after themselves.

To take us back a century in order to explain why Scousers are apathetic towards the England team is a tad melodramatic. Great joy spread throughout this City when England won the World Cup in 1966 and both us and RS felt immense pride in the fact that we had players who contributed... What happened? – Did we all have the summer off from being not English?

I'm not going to go into Thatcher's evil government's attempts to manage "The systematic decline" of our great City. Or gobshite Murdoch's relentless lies. It's all been well documented and most of us will never forget.

Football is this City's great passion. The RS, whether we like it or not, have been hugely successful and, let's not forget, we are still the fourth most successful team in the country. Over the past 50 years, our teams have become the be-all and end-all; England, and the tiresome empty boast of the country's media, have faded further and further into the background. As the domestic game became more tribal, it became more difficult to wish players of other clubs, who we had grown to despise, well.

We stopped being bothered, to the point where it's become fashionable to go out of our way to tell people how "not bothered" we are...

I'm up for this World Cup and from a purely footballing point of view. I would love England to win it. The coach has amazed me with his innovative new tactics (something I haven't seen before). Unlike most of the other nations, the players have conducted themselves in a humble and dignified manner.

For the first time in a long time, I don't feel embarrassed by banner headlines telling us second-rate players would be crowned champions, I don't feel disgust at the behaviour of the players of the pitch, embarrassed by their antics on it and thankfully the majority of the "meatheads" Jamie C refers to have stayed home.

Yeah, They've yet to face decent opposition... and yeah, they may all be on the plane home soon after they have... but there is much to like about this England set-up.

Alan J Thompson
48 Posted 25/06/2018 at 05:18:29
It's not necessarily a matter of patriotism but a dislike of the English FA which may be a two-way thing. In 1966, England were supposed to play their semi-final at Goodison Park but the FA had to move it to Wembley which just added to the belief that England was just some team who played in London.

As a National Anthem? I'd prefer "Land of Hope & Glory".

And there's also this attitude towards Liverpool. Just over a year ago, in a pub at the other end of the world, I went to the bar and ordered when this sneering Home Counties BBC accent said, "Oh from Liverpool, you must have stolen a lot of cars to get here." He wasn't joking and I wasn't doing too much of it with my strictly Anglo-Saxon reply.

Will Mabon
49 Posted 25/06/2018 at 05:39:54
I think, Darren, that the patriotism and interest in the England team has been badly eroded in the last decade plus, by the awful team performances and also the off-field bullshit (comprising the prima donna stuff, media crap, WAGS, governing body politics, defeatist attitude mixed with false optimism, even many of the pundits etc).

It's been a pretty grim showing for quite some time, that no-one's looked like getting to grips with, or even wanted to get to grips with, until now. This has alienated swathes of supporters – no easy task with the loyalty usually found in football. I'm not sure the "Players of other clubs" thing comes into it so much, nor an increased attention to our own clubs; I simply think the whole England thing has been a horrible shit-show.

Two lower-standard oppositions or not, the results and other aspects you mentioned are unprecedented for some time. I love the World Cup, Euros, all of it, but it may take some time for England to regain the trust. Perhaps when the exit is to come, they go down fighting – that would be a massive step.

Painful thing, football...

Tommy Carter
50 Posted 25/06/2018 at 06:44:26
Whatever you feel about UK government or all the rest of it, break it down to this:

Our National side is made up of 23 lads who've been born and raised in this country from a variety of different backgrounds, many similar to our own. They were just English kids at one point from ordinary families who dreamed of being footballers and playing for their country in a World Cup.

Each of us can relate to that. They are living that dream. If you can't be proud and support that, then I don't even understand why you like football or any sport at all.

Will Mabon
51 Posted 25/06/2018 at 06:56:07
Tommy, if they played like they did against Iceland last time, and they did it more often than not despite the inclusion of individual players that we see play to a much higher standard for their clubs... would it be wise to just support that, and not question?

It isn't about liking football or not, it's about expecting our national team to at least somewhat reflect the standard of the league from which the players are drawn.

Ian Hollingworth
52 Posted 25/06/2018 at 07:24:45
Nothing will lift the nation more than England doing well at the World Cup.

I am very proud to say I support England. I am with Darren on some of the sentiments raised on this thread.

Tommy Carter
53 Posted 25/06/2018 at 07:30:38
@53 Will

Yep. Support your country without question.

They're not always going to be great, sometimes they will have a terrible manager in charge, such as when they played Iceland in 2016.

You simply cannot compare club football and International football. You are not ‘born an Evertonian' to disagree with the famous quote. You become an Evertonian through personal preference or family influence. But you are born and raised in a country and that is your country.

Players will always play for their country. But players will only join Clubs based on their status and finance available.

James Hill
54 Posted 25/06/2018 at 07:38:05
Tommy Carter — I was born an Evertonian. Three things from the day I can remember: vote labour, go to church on Sunday, and the big one: support Everton. I was born a blue and don't tell me any different.

The only thing you got right is players play for money now. Can't blame them for that.

Tommy Carter
55 Posted 25/06/2018 at 07:41:49
James. You weren't, mate.

Sentiment aside, nobody is born an Evertonian.

James Hill
56 Posted 25/06/2018 at 07:45:09
Steve Ferns,

Sorry, mate, I just get fed-up with the apparent lack of respect for our culture, history and those who fought to protect us. It gets nauseating these days.

I want Everton first to win everything possible and England too. The thing is for me, I don't care if they do it ugly, because the real joy is in winning.

Ash Moore
57 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:01:29
To be honest, I thought a lot of Evertonians' cynicism at international football was quite realistic. I've seen recurrences of it even now, and we've only got one England player in Pickford.

A lot of Evertonians think that ultimately international football either gets our better players injured or tapped up for a move if they do well. And as ultimately, England have been largely shite for the last 50 years, it's not like the ends justify the means, is it?

I want England to win as well, but I do understand many of my fellow Blues' position. How does England winning help Everton? The truth is, England winning never helps Everton, and sometimes is to the direct detriment of the club. That's the ultimate point.

Drew Shortis
58 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:23:16
I was born and grew up on the south-east coast & could see France on a clear day. Since a young age, I've been a Toffee. The reasons are almost lost in the mists of time, but there were no local teams worth following and, at the time, I had no idea where Liverpool was. Many of my friends were Liverpool or Tottenham fans (in the late eighties/early nineties) but I have stuck loyally to Everton since then and I can't work up any excitement for other teams — except for England.

England is the summer romance that occurs every two years or so. Italia 90 had a huge impact on me. Since then, it's been mostly disappointment, but I always seem to get sucked in, despite my better judgment. This time, for the first time since 1996, I feel like they are a team and not just a collection of egos. It's not all about whether a few superstars will be on form (Beckham, Rooney, Gerrard etc...), but will the team and their tactics click? I've got a positive feeling and will be cheering for the team all the way.

I could get into my views on politics and nationalism, but I prefer to separate football from all of that. Football is entertainment and escapism into a world of fantasy. I'm certainly not proud of the hooligan element England has attracted over the years, but those people are not representative of the vast majority who merely want to support their country to go as far as possible and do us proud.

Niall McIlhone
59 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:23:37
Interesting debate and all; however, back to the article.

Jordan Pickford had no chance with the Panama goal, and was left exposed by Rose and Stones (I think) failing to see the danger and step out... but, all told, it was a stunning performance in the first half and clearly the second half was about conserving energy. I feel that Pickford will have a chance to show his quality at some stage, perhaps the quarter-final.

As for the meatheads which Jamie (and others) refer to, sadly, they have been around all of the time I've followed football but, when the sun is out and the beer is flowing, those of that ilk seem to only need some tenuous excuse to act like idiots: England in the World Cup is a touchstone, but equally, you get the same dickheads kicking off at boxing and MMA events, racecourses – even darts!

For this reason, I generally try to avoid large gatherings in pubs etc. A shame, because you know, England is a really beautiful place during a long, hot summer and, as with many things in life, the enjoyment of many can be spoiled by the idiocy of the few.

Ed Fitzgerald
60 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:36:37
Tommy Carter,

I agree with you that you aren't born an Evertonian – it's to do with family, culture and environment etc.

However, just being born in England doesn't automatically make you an England supporter either because your family background and culture influence your view of who you are and where your sympathies lie. That's why many second- and third-generation Asian and Afro-Carribean folk support their ‘home' counties countries in the cricket rather than the country of their birth.

So, in Liverpool, many people will identify with a Celtic tradition rather than being English. This factor combined with Political reasons (in some cases) means that many people in the city don't identify with England; that's not a crime.

Dean Johnson
61 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:46:13
Quite a good read this thread but I have to take issue with Steve Ferns:

"The way the rest of England treated the Irish, the way the rest of the country has treated people from Liverpool, it's something some of us don't forget and it gets passed on down the generations."

As a blue of Irish descent myself, I have a serious issue with statements like these. Essentially you are blaming other generations for your irrational hatred. Don't you see that this is why we still have sectarian issues in Ireland and Scotland — why we still have issues in the Middle East?

The English are ridden with self-imposed post-colonial guilt and those with ANY kind of connection to another nation use it to brow-beat and get their own way. I am English, but of Irish descent so I don't hold any hatred towards either and neither should anyone else here.

The Irish (and those of Irish descent) are always playing the victim. Stop listening to your embittered family members because there needs to be at least one generation that tries to put a stop to this perpetual hate circus.

Simon Smith
62 Posted 25/06/2018 at 08:53:04
Drew, a great post to read. I stated something very similar on another thread which many disagreed with. Come on England!!!!
And then in August COYB
Derek Thomas
63 Posted 25/06/2018 at 09:09:38
My Country, right or wrong eh? A short-sighted view that can cover and condone a multitude of sins.

Add in... "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" from Samuel Johnson and E M Forster's... “If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country.” – and that's a fair spectrum of pro and con.

But I feel the lack of support for the National team stems from something a bit more simple, namely persistent over-promise vs under-performance, multiple penalty shoot-out failures, London / Sky darling bias, and the Gold Bentley, "I'm on a £100 grand a week — whether I give a fuck on the pitch or not give one on the bench!"

Dave Abrahams
64 Posted 25/06/2018 at 09:20:14
A really very good thread this one; even at my age, I find out I am learning about myself through this excellent series of posts.

My own point of view is, if England keep playing like this against the better teams, then they can surprise a lot of fans as well as themselves.

Let's keep our feet on the ground; the two teams we have played haven't been of a decent standard. Carry on attacking and pressing, and we just might keep carrying on, and on.

Derek Thomas
65 Posted 25/06/2018 at 09:21:43
Also, If by some chance England get to the semis or even the Final, rest assured the bandwagon will be fully loaded... including possibly on the QT, many of the naysayers on here...
Derek Thomas
66 Posted 25/06/2018 at 09:50:12
Ed Fitzgerald @62... many people in the city don't identify with England?

Back in the day when we had proper Counties, people didn't even identify with Lancashire. The most you could say was, we were 'in it' — not 'of it'.

In fact, draw a 6-mile radius centred on the Pier Head... and outside that was 'Wools'; the rest was terra incognita — the further you went out the more incognita it was.

On a really bad xenophobic day, a foreigner was somebody from 3 streets away... it's no surprise really.

Ed Fitzgerald
67 Posted 25/06/2018 at 09:53:15

Apologies that should read 'countries' — not 'counties'!

David Ellis
68 Posted 25/06/2018 at 11:01:32

Liverpool was kind of transplanted into Lancashire – substantially from Ireland – hence the non-Lancastrian accent.

As a Wool myself, I always thought Scousers were from a different land, even though they lived a few miles away, whereas Mancs had a recognisable Lancastrian accent.

It delights me to bring Southern friends to Liverpool – they find it quite a culture shock. I like that about Liverpool. But the city doesn't own Everton... dare I say it but it's important for Everton to be more than a Liverpool club.

Lee Brownlie
69 Posted 25/06/2018 at 11:06:14
For those of you who seem so fucking proud to be claiming you feel no passion for England, despite that it's the World Cup (FFS!!!) and we're actually doing all that we should be, admittedly, for a change... I'd say "Okay, up to you, ya whinging fuckers" ... but then why don't you switch off and leave any posting on England to those of us who do give a shit???
Eric Paul
70 Posted 25/06/2018 at 11:37:13
Well said, Lee.
Tom Bowers
71 Posted 25/06/2018 at 11:49:35
Be sure that England will not play as well as this against better teams.

Panama is rated very low on the scale so expect a much tougher game in the knock-out stage.

Ian Burns
72 Posted 25/06/2018 at 12:21:27
Like Dave (#66), I am also learning a lot about myself from this exceptional thread.

In 1966, I saw all the World Cup games at Goodison Park and the World Cup Final at Wembley and I was a massive England fan.

I was also at the FA Cup Final in 1966 when Everton won the Cup on that incredible day.

So I have tried to ask myself – which gave me the greatest pleasure? And found I couldn't answer the question; too much time has elapsed.

So I asked myself, If Everton won so much as a tin pot cup and England won the World Cup, which would I prefer?

I realised that Everton winning anything would top England winning the World Cup but I will be shouting for my country until they are out and on their way home.

Some great posts on here.

James Marshall
74 Posted 25/06/2018 at 12:28:02
I have zero sense of nationalism on a wider scale, but I love the World Cup as a football supporter, not an England supporter and certainly not an Everton supporter.

I've barely given Everton a thought the last 2 weeks and for me that's been like a 'holiday' from the Everton obsession I'm both blessed and cursed with in equal measure.

The World Cup is a festival of football, and England have been a breath of fresh air this time round. My first proper World Cup memories are from Mexico '86 and to a greater degree, Italy '90, of which (despite the end for England) I have glorious memories. Platt on the volley against Belgium in the quarters, and Lineker's thigh-trap, swivel and goal against Germany in the semi being the obvious highlights. I can remember where I was, who I was with and literally every moment of those goal celebrations.

The World Cup for me is a total football feast, with different styles being played by every team, amazing goals, amazing supporters, failure and glory, tension, it has everything. It's like watching an entire football season in 4 weeks and I love it. I cannot understand why anyone feels ambivalent towards it.

Everton are our shared obsession; England is a choice, and many of us aren't even English anyway — I have a Welsh Mother but only lived there for 3 years mid-childhood, so I don't identify, or feel Welsh at all. My sense of nationalism is zero as I say, and I have no interest in things like the English national anthem (my favourites are the German, French and Italian, or the Welsh sung at the Arms Park for the rugby back in the day).

I've lived in 3 different countries, been round the world twice and totally lost any sense of Englishness that was force-fed to me as a younger person, but I still support England in the World Cup because, well, I guess I can't help it. I do it out of the love of football though, and not a love of this country.

I feel I've just rambled out a load of crap you didn't need to know in this post!

Drew Shortis
75 Posted 25/06/2018 at 12:50:18
In general, I think it's best to keep football, religion and politics separate, but this thread really is fascinating and is a microcosm of a much larger debate that has been raging for many years now. Brexit in a nutshell.

Some of us feel a deep and abiding love for Queen & Country while others totally reject that and feel like citizens of the world. I don't think there is a right or wrong view; it is up to each individual how they feel and identify.

What I do find interesting is discovering that things I take for granted, that are part of my DNA mean nothing to others. This can be difficult to comprehend at first. It doesn't have to be something that divides us though. Football is a great uniter. How many conversations are started with strangers over the beautiful game!?

The trick is to try and keep an open mind, listen to others views and experiences, and try to understand why they think the way you do. You may not end up agreeing with them, but you can respect the thought process that has led them to that place. The conflict begins when people are unwilling to even attempt to see the world from another point of view.

Phil Bellis
76 Posted 25/06/2018 at 12:59:05
Agreed, Drew; and calling those with different views "whinging fuckers" doesn't help at all.
John Burns
77 Posted 25/06/2018 at 13:00:26
It's an interesting one this. Like many here, I'm English but of Irish descent. However, I class myself very much as English. When it comes to cricket, I want England to win every time. Same with rugby, athletics (England or Team GB) or every other sport.

As with others on this forum, my allegiance to the England team changed somewhere in the nineties. But now there definitely is some change occurring in that I am rooting for England. (Not in a big way but it is definitely different to other recent campaigns.)

Of course, if it was a choice between a World Cup for England and any trophy for Everton – no matter how irrelevant – it would be Good Night, England.

Peter Warren
78 Posted 25/06/2018 at 13:11:29
I’m English, proud to be English and support England in sport including Football.

However, I suppose I don’t support England as much in Football as I do with other sports. Obviously, the fact that the game is full of English mercenaries doesn’t help but I think it’s mainly because a load of English fans do my head in. The reason for this is previous despicable behaviour but also because of the armchair fans - they remind of the majority of Liverpool fans who don’t go the match (I find match going reds; and again, not the ones who simply go to European games; fine).

As it happens this World Cup and part because of England is a breath of fresh air despite being held in Russia. The games have been great, there seems little trouble, the Russians appear v warm and hospitable, the English players amazingly affable and likeable, the team having a go, referees seem decent and other countries (as usual to be fair in major championships) are great too, ie the Peruvians. Only negatives have been Neymar and the Panamanian players who were gobshites although again English players’ behaviour I felt exemplary in dealing with them.

In summary loving the World Cup and work is really getting in the way!

Ernie Baywood
79 Posted 25/06/2018 at 13:49:55
I was a mad England fan – right up to that 'golden generation' that pretty much signalled a total loss of standards.

To that point I felt 'we' were above others, even in defeat. Then we had an era of hyper-wealthy classless players. The cherry on top was that they'd get picked regardless of form and in whatever position was available. Then they would play their own game instead of the team game and fail. I couldn't support them and actually took an active dislike.

Suddenly I'm back. Part of that might be my kids showing an interest in the country I grew up in, some of it is Everton and Allardyce leaving me needing something to look forward to; but a big part of it is the current English side.

Southgate is an absolute inspiration. Unheralded, quietly spoken, yet he's done all the right things. Focus on the team over the individuals, focus on youth over "tried and failed" options, focus on a style that might actually suit the team and the tournament. The bloke's got some cajones given what we know about the media. I'd love to see this team do it.

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 25/06/2018 at 13:51:27
James@76, I agree that you have rambled out loads of crap mate, but take a bow for your opening sentence in paragraph three:

The World Cup is a festival of football, and England have been a breath of fresh air this time around!

I was taught to love Everton off my father but never England though; I've never heard him say he wants them to win. That's up to him, he's got his own reasons and feelings, but one of my greatest days at any football match was being inside the stadium with my two sons and my own little match-going firm, watching England playing at a World Cup.

The kids were only young, my younger one was only six, but he texted me with his memory, on the eve of this tournament, and the only way that I wouldn't want England to win this tournament is if I had a choice.

If my choice was England or Everton, there is no choice, so let England get to the final, but let Everton win the cup next season!

Simon Smith
81 Posted 25/06/2018 at 14:18:18
I think if and when England get knocked out, there will be a certain smug satisfaction from a certain amount on here. That's what I really can't stand.

They would rather be proved right about England failing than be happy for those of us that support England if we did well.

I hope we win it for the right reasons as I love the unity of the country and we deserve something to cheer!

Jay Wood

82 Posted 25/06/2018 at 14:50:02
Every time there is an international game, posts of the same nature as have appeared in this thread pop up. On the one hand you have those happy to lend their support to the national team. On the other, there are those who declare their loathing of the same, with all hues in between.

Me? It's very simple: I love football. I love the theatre of sport. And I loved football all the more in the spring and summer of 1966 when Everton won the FA Cup. I attended some World Cup games at Goodison Park as a 10-year-old, going on 11, which climaxed with England lifting the World Cup... oh! And us signing England's best player under the noses of the neighbours.

That summer, playing footy on the streets of Liverpool, me and me mates gave ourselves new names from the familiar ones of those who played in the city wearing blue or red shirts we habitually used.

Whoever drew the short straw of playing in goal was 'The Black Spider', Lev Yashin. Everyone wanted to be Eusebio, 'The Black Panther', or 'The Black Pearl', Pele. All because they blessed Goodison Park with their presence that summer of '66.

The city was abuzz with the World Cu[ and there was plenty of partying and 'feel-good' factor when England actually won the thing. So I don't buy into this 'Liverpool city is a special case' when it comes to supporting the national team.

In the 52 years since – yes – there has been a shift in attitude to patriotism in general, not just in relation to support of the national football team, but the whole concept and the dreadful consequences that can result from the more extreme national jingoism.

The fortunes of the national team have also greatly wavered in that time, but to claim a broad nationwide (or even, city of Liverpool) disinterest in the England team is well-wide of the mark, IMO.

When the FA were rebuilding Wembley, England went on the road to every corner of the country. It was always a sell-out, with fervent local support evident. But because the FA needed to recoup their heavy investment in Wembley, once the new stadium was completed, that's where the England team withdrew to.

The FA totally ignored the self-evident demographics and success of taking England 'on the road' – as pretty much every national team does in all the major footballing nations – thus reinforcing the idea among some supporters that 'Engerland' is a 'southern', London-centric team.

As this article shows, nothing could be further from the truth. No fewer than 13 of the 23 players in the England squad come from within 50 miles of the centre of Manchester, with 2 more – our own Jordan Pickford and 'their' Henderson – hailing from Sunderland.


Too often, for me, those bigging up their Everton support whilst distancing themselves from any positive association with the national team sound as if they are indulging in brinkmanship, trying to present themselves as 'purer, more ethnically cleansed, superior' Blues.

And I'm sorry, but as much as I love the 'Evertonians are born, not manufactured' line as the next person, I don't take it literally as some attempt to do in this very thread. The nature vs nurture debate is a fascinating one. To believe you, as an infant, were innately 'born to be Blue', is delusional.

I am not an out-and-out patriot. I don't need to wave a flag to affirm my identity, but simply by association – an accident of birth – I am English and will cheer and support national teams or individuals whatever their sport. I will extend that to the Scots, Welsh and Irish in the case of 'Team GB', or not having an English 'equivalent'.

Why? Because sport is partisan and as a spectator it adds pleasure to the viewing if you are emotionally engaged.

The sneering, the disinterest, the ambivalence some display towards the England national football team is a totally alien concept in many other nations around the world.

Each to their own, but personally, as I said, I love football. I am loving this World Cup for the fact England have turned up to the party and are playing scintillating football superior to most so far. I am loving this World Cup because there have been goals in every game, with teams intent on scoring, rather than merely stopping the opposition from scoring. I am loving this World Cup for its entertainment value and intensity.

And I am sure, even though they are getting hammered, the likes of the Peru and Panama supporters who have both made huge sacrifices to attend the games, are also loving the fact that they are participating in the finals when previous winners and expected challengers couldn't even make the cut.

Tony Abrahams
83 Posted 25/06/2018 at 14:52:35
Simon, if England do win the World Cup, then I hope that the journalist who set up Allardyce gets a knighthood!

Lawrence Green
84 Posted 25/06/2018 at 14:54:57
If England can produce the sort of football that they have done so far against the tougher opponents in the competition, then they could go far in this World Cup; I hope they do as it's good for the country and the English game. I have little time for those who use the game for political or social point-scoring as football should be an escape from that sort of stuff.

I'm quite happy if any of the home countries, plus the Republic of Ireland do well in major competitions but, as only England have qualified this time around, I will support them to do well. As an Evertonian first and foremost, I would also like to see any Everton player do well for their countries.

I too went off England in the early 2000s as it was evident that players were being chosen for commercial reasons rather than footballing abilities. Southgate and this current squad seem to be more interested in performing as a team and are out there trying to win football matches.

Some of the media would have many believe that the true favourite national team reside across Stanley Park, because much of what I've read and seen from this World Cup seems to revolve around connections to that club, from Russian supporters with RS related tattoos or Mexican managers who happened to look over the fence to watch them training. As for the Egyptian Number 10 who wasn't identified often enough by Jonathan Pierce and Danny Murphy in their commentary, I did wonder if they were his agents acting on his behalf.

So far, this Russia 2018, has been a good watch for the most part, but the serious stuff begins again in August at Wolverhampton.

Paul A Smith
87 Posted 25/06/2018 at 18:01:55
I didn't realise this thread had become so embroiled in why you should or shouldn't support England.

My reasons for not being interested for the last 15-20 years has been because of the biased squad selection, ie, How was Phil Neville a regular until he signed for us where he played more regular?

Glen Johnson right back until he signed for Stoke, we all knew Johnson was no great right back but he was at Liverpool, who replaced him?

Clyne. Why? Because he signed for Liverpool. How can I give my passion to that agenda?

Apart from the sweetener for Kopites in putting Alexander Arnold in the squad, I have taken more interest this year because it hasn't been like that. Why? Because Liverpool are littered with foreigners

Does anybody remember the headlines after England beat Germany 5-0 away? For those who don't it was Liverpool 5 Germany 0.

I never intend to make England an Everton v Liverpool or Liverpool v United thing because I would prefer to support my country but not when its biased selection and the press want to rub up to the darling players if the team do well.

Steve Ferns makes a good point about the national anthem too. Is it about England or a tribute to the Queen? The latter I say.

What happens when she dies? Surely the anthem should be about the country?

Each to their own though, they are my reasons. As for 2018. Come on England.

Will Mabon
88 Posted 25/06/2018 at 18:07:26
Not born an Evertonian, born to an Evertonian – which has pretty much the same effect.

An interesting debate, hearing the different mix of elements that go into capturing any one supporter's loyalty.

Many people's support for their club and country is different. Perhaps more loyalty to club, more misplaced expectation of country.

Good points made on post 2000 era regarding ostentatious wealth and players being chosen for commercial reasons. Coupled with years of unacceptably poor performances with low commitment, it's hard to just blithely support for many.

Maybe things are changing...

Brent Stephens
89 Posted 25/06/2018 at 18:09:57
I watched England v South Africa rugby union – wanted them to win. Watched England v New Zealand rugby league – wanted them to win. Watched England v Australia ODI – wanted them to win. Why wouldn't I want England to win at football?

They've bored the pants off me for years but they look as if they now have a decent side and decent tactics. I'm more interested in England international level than I have been for years. Mildly exciting. I don't give a toss if there are Spurs players in there, or Liverpool players or whatever.

Brent Stephens
90 Posted 25/06/2018 at 18:16:11
Paul (#89), "Steve Ferns makes a good point about the national anthem too. Is it about England or a tribute to the Queen? The latter I say. What happens when she dies? Surely the anthem should be about the country?"

Totally agree. The anthem should be about the country, not a privileged family, scrounging off the taxpayer.

Best anthems for me: Ireland; Wales; South Africa. And maybe Spain because no words to learn!

And the best flag: South Korea.

Paul A Smith
91 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:04:35
Brent, thank you.

Maybe its where our problems have stemmed from. Talk about percentages and advantages, how many players have you seen over the years totally uninterested in singing the anthem? Tons? Is this good for the team when half the players are showing a lack of interest before the game?

Bizarre as it may sound, everything counts, and sports science is obsessed with keeping players in sync (Pardon the pun).

I have taken an interest for years in seeing who sings the anthem because I know I wouldn't and this year it seems to have been more forced?

The anthem is a power trip tribute and certain powers have ruined the national team for years.

Tommy Carter
92 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:19:23
Tony @ 85, Great point.

Allardyce has said that he'd have been looking at a draw vs Tunisia because a draw in your first game ‘isn't a bad result'.

He also said this morning on TalkSport that he'd rest Pickford vs Belgium. I'm staggered by his thinking. On what planet would that be a good idea?

Will Mabon
93 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:27:42
Tommy, I think they do it on purpose for the talking point element, I really do.
Simon Smith
94 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:32:24
Rest Pickford??? He's not had anything to do. I'm so glad we got rid of that man!
William Gall
95 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:37:33
Funny thing about being an expat. I was born in Liverpool in 1940, played on Goodison Park in 1952 and have been a blue ever since.

I emigrated to Canada in 1976 and I am a Canadian citizen with a Canadian passport but return to Liverpool on numerous occasions, and when asked where I am going, I always say "back home".

So, even living in Canada longer than England, I will always consider Liverpool as my home and support Everton with expectations of England doing well in competitions. I had a book of tickets for Goodison Park in the 1966 World Cup Finals and watched the final and I still cheer on England

Brent Stephens
96 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:41:30
Simon, maybe you mean you're glad we "rested" that man.
Dave Evans
97 Posted 25/06/2018 at 19:55:37
Jamie (#39),

Thanks for the answer and for putting my question in your best forehead vein pulsating bold type.

About the other thing (regularly?) on your mind about steering clear of 'meathead tough-guy douche-bags' thanks again for the advice. You seem to have some experience.

Jamie Crowley
98 Posted 25/06/2018 at 21:17:54
Don't mention it, Dave. You're welcome.
Alan J Thompson
99 Posted 27/06/2018 at 05:17:22
I hope nobody got me wrong. I always want somebody from the UK and British Isles to win or do well and when there isn't a representative then I'm for the underdog.

This rule does, of course, go out the window when Everton and any of it's players are involved and occasionally stretches to former players. However, there are some teams (Leeds of the '60s and teams that use our old grounds) to whom this will never apply.

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