550 miles for that!!!

Afterwards, I had a quick coke with Kunal before running off just in time to avoid my car being locked in the car park!

Shite game, but good people.

Rubbish drive home. Made it finally home just after 11pm. Hopefully we'll talk about a better performance and with a few of our absent players back in the side as well.

Anyway I marvel at supporters like you and Kunal the time distance and effort you make to see the Blues, much easier for me, five minutes by bus to the ground,
I take my hat off to supporters like you.

Given my expectations for the game, I was bitterly disappointed, more about the way we played than the result. But I temper that in the knowledge that it's early days.

It's a long journey there and back, isn't it. :-)

Got to agree about Tosun; looks like he can't buy a goal at the minute. That said, the service into him was atrocious but you made a great point about replacing him with Calvert-Lewin. I thought he played really well yesterday considering once again he was shunted out wide

To me, though, the biggest disappointment of the lot was Sigurdsson. I don't know if it's just me but I've yet to see him grab a game by the scruff of the neck like we were led to believe he would.

What a shocking waste of 㿙 million!!! Slow; gets caught in possession, and doesn't seem to anticipate what's going on around him.

As for Schneiderlin... sorry but he's just a passenger — the game goes on around him while he just ambles about doing sod all. Ditto Davies... very very limited.

This seems to upset people when you call Davies out but he's not good enough. I'm just sorry you had to travel all that way, Dave, to witness that trash.

For the lads to show that commitment is unbelievable.

I'm confident we will get there but not til next season — a win against the Meccano Stadium lot will do for me this season.

I don't think the eleven which started yesterday can be labelled as Allardyce's team any more than it can be labelled Silva's. Only two of the players, Tosun and Walcott, were signed by Allardyce.

Phil, agreed, beating the Meccano team at Wembley would do for me too!

On the zonal marking, while I'm no Steve Ferns when it comes to tactics, I think Silva and his coaching team are over complicating it. Many years ago living in Germany I played for a team that was set up to mark zonally. At corners for example, one player took the far post and two players plus the keeper took specific spaces in and around the 6 yard box. If the ball came into their space they attacked it and cleared the danger.

Having just those 3 players plus the defender on the post meant they had the elbow room to move and attack the ball. Everton seem to have double that number in this area and they are necessarily static as a result.

Another innovative tactic used in that team was that the coach would often push 3 players up towards the half way line when we were defending a corner. 2 wide, 1 in the middle. This forced opponents to leave 4 and sometimes even 5 players plus their keeper in their own half. So they could attack the corner with only half a team.

Admittedly this was an amateur team but imagine the potential threat to any team of leaving the likes of Walcott, Richarlison and Lookman spaced out near the half way line, especially if Pickford gets hold of the ball and pings it towards them. This further decongests the space that needs to be marked and allows for more movement from the markers.

Gerard (#16), good points, watched them as the corners and free kicks were coming in, six or seven of them in a line, getting in eachother's way, no-one on the line (again), lots of them static... To leave at least two on the half-way line makes more sense to me, but we are only supporters... like Manuel, we know nothing.

The team that always astounds me is Man City. Admittedly whichever back 4 they play, they are all pretty tall lads. But then you have Silva, Sterling, Aguerro, Jesus coming back for corners – all small guys, but I don't see them conceding too many from corners.

I am sure Silva will drill this back 4 so it stops happening quite so often. But, as England proved in the World Cup, a well-worked corner can undo any side.

Those MOTD stats were very condemning. However, what they show is that a high % of goals conceded by Silva teams were from set pieces. They should be showing how many set piece goals we concede compared with other sides and how many open play goals. If we don't concede an above average number of set piece goal and the open play goals conceded is low, then that's us doing alright.

We still have to hope they sort this zonal marking fiasco out soon. And not just Mina coming in.

I wonder what would have happened to Barkley had we got Silva in, in November? Also I doubt he'd have brought zonal marking in then, instead trying to effect changes more slowly.

I also thought Schneiderlin had yet another solid game. He's doing nothing spectacular, and he's probably still playing within himself. He's the best passer from deep that we have, but he's rarely taking a risk and hitting those 40-yard passes. I think this is probably due to instruction and Silva is instead trying to get us to play quick passes through midfield. We needed long diagonals against Huddersfield though. We needed to pull them about and to make them chase shadows.

Martinez possession game was about tiring these park-the-bus sides. They'd only chase for so long and then you'd find a way through. We need to speed everything up and raise the intensity levels.

As we both know, there is nothing wrong with zonal marking and not much wrong with our centre-backs defending now. It is the forwards, Tosun and Calvert-Lewin in particular, that have let us down recently.

Even if you're going to get beat to the header, at least put some pressure on the opposition to ensure they can't get a clean header on it. Our guys are acting like statues.

In these days of stricter refereeing, I'm surprised they did not appeal more.

The worrying part about conceding this type of goal is that:

A – Anybody can expose it, even lower league teams, not to mention the better sides in the Premier League;

B – It shows there is major problem with our team on a most basic of tactical levels, And it has not been corrected yet?

Very worrying indeed... I expect this to be corrected. I have played in Pub teams that defend corners better than we have been doing.

Point being, we could have played shite and came away with a 1-0 win.

There is something to be said for the fact that we have a lot of injuries and suspensions at the moment, so the bench was weak, but that doesn't excuse the lack of movement in the final third.

I thought Davies played okay alongside Schneiderlin. I take your point about his physical restrictions, but he is only 20. If we, the fans, give him the support and encouragement he needs, he will be a big part of our team for a long time.

I felt we started okay, but faded fast when we saw how Huddersfield were setting up. We let them get to us and dictate the tempo. They also did a good job of controlling the referee, which slowed the game down even more.

That being said, we need players like Sigurdsson, Walcott and Coleman (who have been around in this league for a long time) to recognise that and make a few more runs; work harder to open teams up. I think that's what was missing, a little more Premier League know-how in attack.

Either way, we have suffered our first flat performance under Silva, but we have the blessing of the international break to get some of our injured back, continue to bleed the system and style in and I think we will see better performances going forward.

I have faith in Brands and Silva and I think we have a balanced squad with talent in all areas (if we can keep them all available).

I don't agree with all Dave's comments on the OP. I think Tosun is doing just fine. He's not a worldie – but, outside the top 6, there aren't many better strikers. He holds it up well, has great control and strength. Although Calvert-Lewin has come on in leaps and bounds (and bulk), I think Tosun is the No 1 choice as the central striker.

Against bus-parking teams, we lack that super imaginative No 10. Sigurdsson struggles in the lack of space (and without Richarlison stretching them, there was less space) and I think this would have been a game for Bernard.

I love Davies but thought he was poor. Perhaps he was trying riskier passes than Schneiderlin but it wasn't coming off. Again, he's not really the player to break down a parked bus.

Schneiderlin I thought did okay but it's hard to tell on the TV what options he has available. He may look worse to match goers who can see what quick options he had.

Holgate and Coleman were both poor – particularly in how they use the ball and, in Holgate's case, how much time he took to start moving forward when not under pressure. Counter-attacks need to start immediately and often he had the space to take two or three touches and then did just that, rather than looking for the quick pass forward.

2 points dropped. Could have been worse. I'm still hopeful that things will improve, not just in personnel but also cohesion.

It's not just that either, the defence has been pretty firm, Pickford has only pulled off one amazing save, but that was after he fluffed an easy one.

Solely due to the zonal marking issues, our promising start has dropped a notch and requires a win against West Ham in a couple of weeks or we're in fact going backwards.

That said, for me it's mostly about Arsenal. Can we show we're a better side by playing well and giving them a game like we haven't done since Martinez's first season? If so, we can say we've turned the corner and that results will come. Beat West Ham but get turned over by Arsenal again, and it shows we really are not much further down the line.

It's different when you write like this; it's a much better opinion when you explain yourself properly, and so much harder to disagree with.

I don't think you are alone on Sigurdsson: I hear loads of people criticising him, but I see a very good footballer in him – obviously not a 㿙 million player though.

He his the type of player who needs people around him, simply because he hasn't got great pace, and I for one would love to see him drop into a deeper midfield role if it meant getting rid of the real imposter in a blue shirt – who, imo, is Schneiderlin.

Andy, I would have loved to have had to have a good look at myself on Saturday night, because it would have meant I'd been playing for Everton, but I'm just a fan like yourself, who also has opinions like yourself, even if they aren't always the same.

It's hard to criticise him particularly if they just do a good job and take him out the game. That said, the top players always find a way into the game. They only need one chance and they make something happen. He couldn't... so maybe that highlights that he really is not a top player.

I can't wait to see what happens when Bernard is fully fit. I don't believe he's back-up for Charlie. I expect he will be pushing Sigurdsson for the No 10 role.

I can't remember ever seeing as much space on a football pitch considering this is supposed to be elite level football and the fact that we couldn't create shows me that we need the new players to come and bed in before we can really push on.

In theory this is a good thing. That theory being that if you're marking someone, you're essentially tracking them, doing the same as them, in an attempt to get to the ball first (chase the player and the ball). Zonal means you're only looking for the flight of the ball, thus your job should (according to the theory) be easier as you don't have to worry about the man.

The problem with zonal marking is the second-ball, as seen on Saturday – it flicks off a defending player and goes direct to an unmarked attacker = goal.

Had that player been marked, then less chance of a goal. To my mind, zonal marking falls down on the second-ball rule, and thus is less effective than man-marking. No system is flawless, of course.

I can't believe you think that, if we hadn't played zonal marking, we would have won every game. That's far too simplistic, we have conceded goals from corners because defenders didn't do their jobs.

Also, if man-marking is the better way, then why do all the top coaches use zonal? Klopp and Guardiola both use zonal – how many goals have they conceded from corners?

The success of any system is the players, whether that be zonal or man to man marking, or a 3-5-2 or a 4-3-3 system. Good players make it – not the system.

"You have to be touch tight all the time and as people move about your starting position has to naturally change because you don't want people to get a run on you."

"We had men who understood the system inside out."

Quotes from the Rat and that team didn't do half bad but it took a while for them to get some traction.

Silva has started to shape things well from an attacking perspective, however potentially the above indicates there may be a flaw in the way he coaches zonal?

For my understanding of the system, it feels like it needs drilling. We are simply losing headers mostly at the front post. You'd like to feel any ball beyond that should be the keeper's. So the guys are either simply too small or have poor anticipation or both.

Those players should be reading the ball and attacking it better. My own eyes suggest they are not? Is it a simple case of best header at the near post being dominant?

Let's see what Mr Mina does. But, whatever the issue, it needs simplifying for the players to absorb because to date that ain't happening.

That being the case, he has to tweak the present marking and, as a number of posters have mentioned, open up the box a bit to stop all our guys getting in eachother's way. Possibly two on the posts, three or four in zones, and the rest marking the runners man to man.

I really can't accept that it takes "time" to impart defending. We're talking about professional footballers, many of whom have played various systems overseas for various clubs. Surely a week of intense coaching would more than sort this out throughout the squad.

It seems a great waste that all Silva's plus points thus far are being negated by a complete failure defensively. Without doubt, we can argue all day about this but it does appear to be a failing of Silva's past appointments. He has to change or all the goodwill he has received thus far will evaporate.

We all joked about Steve's love affair with Silva prior to his appointment. He did, quite rightly, say we would see his imprint more or less straight away. Even Steve is questioning his defensive frailties and that alone is cause for concern.

It's not the strategy. It's the execution. There's no way Silva is telling them not to bother. There are players not doing their jobs.

If one of the old English (dinosaur) coaches had come up with that kind of comment, he would have been criticized for being set in his ways etc.

As I've stated before, this coaching lark and the coaches themselves is/are very overrated. Emperor's Clothes comes to mind.

West Ham, who have lost all four, bottom of the league, after a 2-week international break, coming to Goodison Park. We are Everton. We know the result. 3/1 for a West Ham win at the moment. Got to be worth a grand that one.

Life is wonderful being an Evertonian. Wouldn't swop it for all the tea in China.

One very striking fact that emerged was that the averge supporter of Everton lived 20 miles from Goodison. This was much derided at the time (possibly by those attempting to claim that an out-of-town ground would be a very bad thing for most fans) but, given the information presented in this thread, perhaps there was more in it than thought at the time.

The number of dedicated fans travelling hundreds of miles each is a testament to the commitment of Evertonians. Give us some silverware and 60,000 is easily fill-able.

Those long diagonal balls played by Gerrard and also by Schneiderlin last season were not very effective, a bit out of date, they played over the full-back and were either cut out or left the man getting possession struggling. The long diagonal ball inside the full back is much more effective, but we'll leave it at that.

I know what you mean but sometimes I almost would! Must meet up again one of these days – in touch with a few of the Wirral Grammar old boys!

That's really interesting analysis.

Is there justification to have 2 players reading zones, 2 looking for the second ball, 1 on the post (at corners), and the rest man-marking? (Minus the 2 to 4 in a wall and 1 on halfway looking for the quick out-ball?)

In other words – a best-of-both-worlds system.

It's a dilemma about starting Calvert-Lewin in place of Tosun. Tosun hasn't looked threatening at all but on Saturday the service to him was poor. It's a 50/50 one, but I wouldn't start them both.

Tosun puts in a shift and does work off the ball, but Calvert-Lewin is finding space in the box and looks the more likely to be in the right place at the right time at the moment.

I think Calvert-Lewin is a workaholic, he has toughened up over the summer and come back stronger. I need to see more but it is possible he has moved up a gear from last season. He has recognised that he has to be more ruthless and lethal in the penalty box, aerially and on the ground. It is very early days but the signs are good. He is delivering.

Whilst it would be tough on Tosun to miss out, for me, the balance has shifted in favour of starting Calvert-Lewin as centre-forward leading the line. I would be in favour of him starting against West Ham.

I met some very nice people, enjoyed excellent hospitality and can't wait to get back up there again. An entertaining performance is obviously a huge help but nonetheless it was a great day out.

The compensation I guess is that we have half a team to bring in when they are available and there are some class players there who will improve the rest. My expectations are high in six months time!