Continuing set-piece failings undermine improved Everton display against City

Have a look at the videos of all the goals we've conceded from set plays, you'll see the tallest men of the opposition next to our shortest men and our tallest men marking empty space.

It doesn't work, stop it!

I was again disappointed with Theo last night... seems his speed of foot is a lot better than his speed of thought and I don't see him being the player we need in those key moments in any game.

I think Bernard was again ineffective, either falling over at key moments or just unable sometimes to deal with the physical aspects of the Premier League.

A player is allocated a zone and must challenge any movement in that zone and the ball if it enters that zone. In most cases, in the Everton team, the player does neither.

It's like being told to stand in a doorway with the aim of not letting anyone through, but not being told to do so.

It repeatedly happens every time Everton play against set-pieces or similar type play. It has done since the start of the season.

In reality, we were completely outplayed but hung in there. Still piss-poor... Sílva is useless – get rid.

The sad thing about it City don't look all that confident and you could possibly see why Newcastle beat them a week ago and a month earlier why Palace and Leicester turned them over, I don't think they are vintage this season although I'm hoping they pick up to win the league, I've got doubts.

It's the same old failings for Everton however.

Failure to do basic defending at set pieces (doesn't look like we are ever going to learn now)

It's also another game where our attack looked simply punchless and toothless.

Another game in which we fell behind in that we get nothing out of.

It's difficult really to see many positives and it's embarrassing really that we are given confidence because we worked a bit harder, that's what Southampton have been doing on a weekly basis under the new gaffer!

The bare minimum EVERY WEEK should be that level of work ethic.

We all know at Watford it will be us failing to get out of first gear (ala St Mary's and The Den all over again).

11 defeats already this season, 8 defeats since the start of December and just 4 wins from 15.

It's nowhere near good enough and major questions and autopsies will need doing come May.

Who's marking up in a man-to-man system? Zouma on their best, then Keane, then Calvert-Lewin (if he's playing), who else?

Is it any wonder we're getting murdered on set-pieces? We still would be on man-to-man, why can't people see that?

Watch City's goal and our best player (on the pitch) in the air has Laporte perfectly for man-to-man. He's just rooted to the floor. It's nothing to do with tactics or systems. Zouma made an error and we need better from him.

But will they still be Everton players or be slagged off down the road like those other one-time 'shite' young players, Stones and Barkley?

If some of the ball-scratching armchair nihilists on here get their way, probably.

Sometimes it isn't the coaching that is the problem, it's the players. It wasn't very long ago that Liverpool and Klopp were getting criticised weekly for their defensive frailties. Their centre-backs were getting crucified, both their goalies were ridiculed.

They went out and bought Van Dijk and Allison. Nobody criticises Klopp's defensive methods or coaching now. The only thing that changed were the players.

As I said on another thread, Allardyce would have the exact same players defending set-pieces better.

Saying none of them are good at heading is too easy a cop-out.

If 'the establishment' are really happy with what is gradually turning into a season from hell, then so be it. After all, gates are at their peak and Moshiri's fortune is by no means all spent. Let's do as we are told – stop moaning and accept that supporting Everton was always a test of patience and will so be for evermore.

Beyond them too, we've got Calvert-Lewin who is usually sub. Then who? Richarlison who closes his eyes? Gomes who doesn't use his strength or size? Man marking or zonal, it makes no difference.

They will be playing for corners too, they will know that a corner is a major chance of scoring against us. We have to have the mental toughness and system to tackle it. More now than ever, our weaknesses will now be targeted by all relentlessly every week.

Some big tests now coming up for Marco and the team. Midfield Weakness, inability to control a game for any length of time.

Playing Bernard and Walcott out wide is too expansive a set-up, it leaves us exposed and generally in a state of panic and crisis management. They both are struggling to create anything or have a shot on goal .

The midfield set-up must change. It must become more compact and combative, at the moment we are too easy to play against; we have an attacking line-up whilst offering virtually no threat. It is too easy to criticise Calvert-Lewin as he is getting almost no service of any quality. Aguero would suffer a similar fate.

It is down to individual errors and the system that they haven't quite got to grips with.

Zouma and Keane can defend set pieces and it is ridiculous to even suggest that professional defenders can't head the ball. Keane was player of the year at Burnley wasn't he and do you honestly believe Dyche would have a center-half who can't head the ball? Absolute nonsense.

They're being undone by how they set up for set pieces. Look at Keane's response to the bench after Man City scored last night. It's a shambles alright but don't just blame the players.

But with such an ineffective front 3 we are going to struggle to win many games. Bernard although a nice neat player, you can't keep picking a player who hasn't scored a league goal all season. On the other flank we had Walcott who has scored 1 league goal since August. I would love to know how many shots on target Bernard and Walcott have had this season.

As I said Calvert-Lewin worked very hard but at this moment he should be coming on for 20 minute spells not be the main starting striker. that's not to say in year or two he may be the main man.

Again undone by a free kick, unless Silva sorts this problem it could end up his downfall. City have one of the smallest teams in the league, so if they can score a headed goal from free kicks we are in trouble.

But last night for me Fernandinho was a class apart from everyone on the pitch. He broke up most of our attacks before they got going and he was always in space to receive the ball from his back 4. The times he picked the ball up in midfield and moved forward with purpose was a joy to watch. I can see why they struggled when he was out the side.

He reminded me of Tony Kay, Peter Reid, Bremner and Souness, you very rarely see these type of players in the modern game. Yes, and just like the players I have named, he also used all the tricks in the book when defending, but his play for most of the game was imperious.

Look again at the chance Aguero narrowly missed after Pickford's lack of height meant he couldn't reach the ball whilst Keane just stood there watching it come down to Aguero.

Personally I think first on the shopping list should be a commanding keeper. Doesn't have to be the best in the country – just a lot more commanding than Pickford. Then the defence will gain confidence and perform much better.

Mind you, there was plenty of ball-watching in our box last night. What is wrong with Pickford, like a rabbit in the headlights? He needs to show more dominance of his area.

Walcott 3 goals, 29 shots, 15 on target in 25 appearances

Bernard 0 goals, 12 shots, 0 on target in 22 appearances

Not exactly the stuff of legends is it?

I like Bernard, I think he's a good player with quite a bit of spirit, but the stats don't lie on his goal threat.

Walcott is the original manager's nightmare, you know he's got something in him to win a game single-handed, but it rarely shows up. So do you keep him on waiting for the flash of brilliance? Not for me.

"Our players (particularly Keane and Zouma) are crap/shite in the air?"

Don't be silly Steve. It sounds like blame shifting because the manager's desired zonal marking is not working smoothly.

There have been ample examples from this season alone when all our centre-backs have repelled all and every aerial bombardment.

You are on more solid ground if you want to say those same players are not tracking the ball, or reacting well to the opposition's movement with any incoming.

Keane, until very recent games, has been one of our best players of the season, a huge improvement on last season when it looked as if we had been sold a pup. We only discovered very recently a major contributing factor to that with his serious foot injury.

What he is not and never will be is a leader. He is a follower who needs to be led with a strong personality and vocal partner alongside him.

It is disappointing on one level he does not have that within himself, but that alone does not make him a bad player or, as you claim, someone lacking in the necessary aggression for his position in the Premier League.

He is also the most composed of our current centre-backs on the ball and the tidiest passer of them with many an accurate, perfectly weighted and inventive pass forward.

Thanks for those stats, I just think it underlines our lack of firepower.

The problem is not that zonal marking can not work, of course it can, or it would have been discarded long ago along with the 2-3-5 formation of old. The problem is that the players are so badly coached, that they are failing in all departments.

Silva was apparently a great coach; well, this is nowhere to be seen...

We set up on free kicks with a high defensive line, then, just as the ball is being played, we all drop off and retreat back to the goal. Therefore we are running backwards, while the attacking players are running forwards or sideways, they will always have the run on our defenders. I don't get the point of this.

If we play a high defensive line, surely it's an offside measure; however, we then retreat before the ball is played and almost never catch anyone offside. Surely by lining up 3-4 yards further back, it would give the defenders the chance to actually attack the ball.

It shouldn't cause much of a difference in crowding the penalty area as we almost always retreat to that position anyway. We'd probably be in a better position to get to the second ball if we lost the first.

The way we are set up makes it so easy for the opposition. Watch how many times the opposition play balls in from the left with right footers and vice versa and drop the ball in between our retreating defenders and Pickford. The best defenders in the world would struggle with that.

I think we also need to accept that on the evidence Silva was bottom and 2nd bottom respectively with Hull and Watford he isn't able to implement this system in English football. We could have Van Dijk playing at centre-back and we'd still be shipping goals in at this rate.

He had some pretty damning statistics about zonal – not for Everton but for Marco Silva. Essentially, goals from zonal defending on set pieces have been his Achilles heel at Everton, Watford and Hull. The stats for Everton are worst of all. The inference being that everyone has cottoned onto his glaring weakness so the problem is getting worse and worse.

I realize many have defended zonal marking, including Kevin Ratcliffe who said Everton used it throughout the golden era. So I am not suggesting it is a rubbish system. But, perhaps Silva himself doesn't fully grasp it and understand how to implement it.

I don't buy the notion that our players are all just thick. Mina, Digne, Gomes, Bernard, Zouma are all continental and presumably versed in zonal marking from their pre-Everton days. Coleman, Baines, Keane, Davies do not seem like players who would willfully defy a coach but not implementing his plan. <{P>So I have to assume that the problem is not with the players or the system but it is with how the coach is "coaching" it.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Keane's relative strength is in the air. He never had issues at Burnley both defensively and offensively with the aerial game. If we could sort out our organization he could be a long-term key man much as Jagielka was.

As for Gomes etc. Yeah not any good in the air. But Pep himself said after the game that his team are pretty crap in the air so it was unusual for them to get a headed goal. Nonetheless, they don't give up a goal a game from corners or set pieces.

Then instructed our aerially moribund rag tag tail outfit to mitigate their deficiencies

Perhaps get the right side of their player to stop stupid, cheap free kicks? Maybe even block and interfere with the players runs at corners and free kicks? Play a compact formation to get the opposition in front of you?

The list of tactical variations to limit the team's vulnerability are plentiful, l but Mr "tactically astute" Silva shows none of that awareness.
His tactically advanced brilliance exposes the team and they aren't up to it. He is setting them up to fail!

You've over-egged the pudding to the points the eggs are scrambled like our team. 😵😵😵

I also cant understand why we have such a high line because the CBs are then running towards their own goal instead of moving forward to counteract the incoming.

Added to that he puts all our big lumps on zonal and the diddymen like Bernard on man-marking their tall players.

Schoolboy tactician but at least he changed his 4-2-3-1 setup last night to better effect. Let's hope he doesn't revert to type against Watford.

And people on here can't see past team formations. Jesus!

We haven't been organised consistently for 5 years, apart from brief spells. We haven't got the best players in the league, but they are very good players and capable of achieving a lot better. We seemed to have some progression and organisation until after the derby, but at that point it just evaporated. We need to get it back and improve on it, pronto.

They mostly all stay rooted to their line, and don't even attempt to command their 6yds...why is that??

I thought that was one of the final undoings of Tim H, but it seems endemic.

Has it been coached out of all of them? It's not like their gloves aren't big enough or they don't get enough (too much) protection from the officials when there's any collisions. I just don't get it.

It really does root the defence far too deep on set plays and corners imho.

What does Big Nev say on the subject...? I would love them to let him coach Pickford for a week and see what effect that had.

I've genuinely no hope in seeing the next win as we rarely make chances and so score very few and have no system or shape in defence nor going forward.

I don't see how the current coaches are coaching this team as there's no signs of improvement. The players broke sweat, some got stuck in, quite a lot didn't and the usual KeyStone Kops defending and another game lost.

Everton made it hard for City to play, but in doing so , had no outlets for genuine creative play themselves.

Let's hope they play like their jobs depend on it this Saturday.

It will be another test of mental strength and for the rest of the season.

Just been to see my brother in hospital at The Walton Centre, and the doctors and nurses busting their guts and hearts, to make the patients lives good. They pay for their own parking and no subsidised meals.

In context, of life for the people who slog their guts out at work, to support and watch Everton, this shower of players need to take a hard look at themselves and decide if they take playing for EFC seriously.

They don't know what hard work, team play and spirit means. Let's not dwell on the basic ethics required in any sport, and this season perhaps 5 games home and away, when they've had a good go.

We we lucky at home to Soton, Cardiff, Huddersfield, Lincoln, Burnley was a rare day, the rest of the games-we've never put a full 95 minute shift in, and that's going back a few seasons now.

Lets hope by hook or crook we nick a result at Watford, but they will have done their homework.

Let's hope we regain some pride and fight in the EFC cause.

I was not able to post any comments last night but I was absolutely pissed off with the forum with basically almost a solid 45 minutes of piss poor cat related smart-arsed comments and worse than that, apparent happiness from some of the posters that city won to overtake Liverpool.

Absolute fucking disgrace to take any delight from Everton getting beat. Hang your heads in shame the gobshites who were posting those comments.

There is no real leader who can control the ball quickly and wait for support or lay it off to a teammate who is up there with him.

Calvert-Lewin nor Tosun have that quality and without the occasional score from Gylfi there is nothing coming from midfield goalwise.

Watford are strong and will keep coming at Everton for 90 minutes.

Unless the slightly improved performance against Man City was a sign of better things, then it's useless to feel optimistic.

As Andy Townsend rightly points out, once the ball has cleared any defender, it's almost like that defender saying, "well that's my job done, it's down to someone else to try and clear the ball".

As I mentioned on another thread, when I played Saturday and Sunday football I played in goal, and I always instructed my team mates to mark big on big and little on little, and always goal side, really tight on the player they were marking so as to prevent any free run to attack the ball. If that attacker started moving around, in circles of whatever, then go with him, do anything to stop him getting to the ball before you. If the player your marking doesn't score, then you've done your job, but FFS don't pass him on to somebody else to deal with.

Surely Marco Silva and his coaching staff must see that it's not working, so why not change it? As pointed out on The Debate, is it a stubbornness by Silva, that no matter what, we are going to persevere with it?

The other weakness is a static midfield that allows a high defensive line, which provides support to opposition attacking players. The high press is ineffective because of the inability of the forward to retain possession. These two weaknesses put more pressure on the Everton defence.

These are glaring weaknesses that have been in place since the start of the season and still have not been addressed on the training ground.

Silva's agenda seems to be to ignore (maybe he doesn't know) the weaknesses and try to now cover them up by giving youth a chance. He would say he is developing these players, but this will never paper over the glaring weaknesses he has failed to address.

Totally agree. You could never accuse any of our mob of holding or blocking because they either get wiped out or are miles away.

Pat Kinsella x 2 correct. It's the coach. Further more I would hazard the Keane and Shane Duffy are similar, except we paid for one and let the other go.

Stones and Otamendi and great centre-halves in a flying Man City team but, if the players in front of them have a bad day, they will struggle, because defensively they are not that hot and would get slaughtered in our team.

In a Copa del Rey game, the keeper for Real Betis went full-length to preserve a 0-0 draw with Valladolid.

That bleached-blond keeper is one Joel Robles.

Well said. I've never wanted us to lose any game and anyone wanting us to lose the other night needs to take a look at themselves.

We will finish in about the same place, regardless of the City result — the only glimmer of fun and excitement left in this dismal seasons was making sure that (hopefully) the other lot bottle it again