One more “L” in the results column

By Lyndon Lloyd 09/02/2019 161comments  |  Jump to last
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“You're right Mr. Moshiri. We're not a museum anymore. We're a circus,” a wag formerly of this parish posted on Twitter earlier. As Everton's season descends further into the doldrums, there’s plenty to agree with in the sentiment but circuses are at least designed to be entertaining. There’s almost nothing entertaining about the Blues at the moment.

Add one more “L” to the results column after today’s defeat at Watford, a return to Vicarage Road with an all-too predictable outcome for Marco Silva. Since Everton edged their way past Cardiff on the 24th of November, there have been nine of them in 14 Premier League matches, with a humiliating FA Cup defeat at Millwall to go on top of it.

It’s relegation form and enough for Evertonians to start looking nervously at the bottom of the league table rather than frustratedly at the top. With 33 points already on the board, only a complete collapse could see Everton under threat of going down this season but when it’s hard to see where the next win is going to come from, it doesn’t bode well for the manager’s continued employment.

Silva has already received his vote of confidence from Farhad Moshiri but it surely won’t be unconditional and the Portuguese’s problem now is that he doesn’t seem to be have an answer to his side’s slump since the Anfield derby. The performance against Manchester City in midweek was adequate from the perspective of attitude and effort but ended in fairly routine defeat and the first half at Vicarage Road was decent enough without ever really quickening the pulse.

Baby steps towards regaining some of that shattered confidence, you would think, but not enough to avoid yet another loss that has means that since the Blues’ misleading 5-1 win at Burnley, only doomed Huddersfield have a worse record than Silva’s Everton.

A discussion over the motley crew over which Silva currently presides is best left for a more detailed analysis on another day but, suffice to say, there are “un-droppables” in the squad like Gylfi Sigurdsson who need to be shoe-horned into the starting XI and that was the case today as the midfielder returned after being given an hour’s rest against City in midweek.

Given how well Tom Davies and Idrissa Gueye played in that game and how important André Gomes is to the Blues’ midfield, it was not surprise that all three were retained but it meant that Sigurdsson was played in the wider left midfield role to which he proved to be so ill-suited under Ronald Koeman.

The result was a fairly predictable nothing showing from the Icelandic international bar one instinctive moment early in the second half where he was about six inches away from giving Everton the lead but saw his stabbed effort bounce off the top of the crossbar.

Sigurdsson had none of the influence on the game you would expect from a £45m signing and was withdrawn with 15 minutes to go as Silva threw on his final striker in the form of Dominic Calvert-Lewin in a vain effort to salvage a point.

Sigurdsson wasn’t alone. Richarlison, barracked and jeered at every turn by the Watford fans until they got bored during the second half, endured a wretched return to Vicarage Road, some early promising runs in the match eventually giving way to him spending more time on his arse whingeing than producing anything of note with the ball.

Up front, Cenk Tosun ran about gamely enough and had a pretty decent crack at goal 11 minutes before half-time but saw his shot saved by Ben Foster but ultimately looked several shades short of what Everton desperately need up front. Movement and pace would be near the top of the list of requirements and, unfortunately, the Turk is lacking in both. (A first half incident where Sigurdsson was released down the left and crossed invitingly only to find a yellow jersey because Tosun was 15 yards behind the play was a case in point.)

However, while they were game and committed enough during the first 45 minutes, led by the energy and determination of Davies and Gueye, Everton largely toiled with an unsuitable system and with precious little penetration despite enjoying around two thirds of the possession.

Their one other moment of note in the first half was another more routine stop that was asked of Foster when Kurt Zouma glanced a header goalwards while at the other end, Jordan Pickford proved to be the difference between Silva giving a half-time team talk at 0-0 rather 0-1.

Troy Deeney had chested the ball forward in the box to Etienne Capoue in the 11th minute, inviting the Frenchman to lash a half-volley that was destined for the roof of the net but Pickford made himself big and diverted the shot over his crossbar with his head.

Other than that, Jonjoe Kenny had been keeping Gerard Deulofeu on a tight leash, the Spaniard really only getting one real sight of goal which Digne blocked superbly and Everton managed to survive two nerve-jangling set-pieces late in the half following infringements by Michael Keane.

Whatever platform Everton had given themselves in terms of confidence to take into the second half quickly crumbled as Watford began to assert more and more pressure following Sigurdsson’s brush with the woodwork. Jose Holebas raked a shot across goal and narrowly wide in the 52nd minute and then tried a similar effort 13 minutes later but with the same result.

Unfortunately, in the second instance, referee Lee Probert deemed Pickford to have got his fingertips to the ball as it fizzed across his six-yard box and awarded the corner that would lead to the winning goal. Zouma headed the dead-ball delivery away from inside his six-yard box but Craig Cathcart’s first-time lay-off put Will Hughes into space behind Lucas Digne and his low cross was begging to be turned in by substitute Andre Gray who duly obliged from close range.

Silva, who had already put Theo Walcott on for Gomes two minutes earlier, had been preparing to introduce Bernard which he then did, bringing Richarlison’s ineffective afternoon to an end, and he swapped Sigurdsson for Calvert-Lewin 10 minutes after that.

Everton had been desperately poor in the final third all afternoon, their execution sorely lacking where it mattered but they did fashion a few openings in the closing stages that might have earned the point they probably would have deserved on the balance of play.

One of Walcott’s few contributions of note was to chase an overhit ball to the byline and cut it back for Tosun but the striker could only poke it wide. Then, after Walcott was shoved over unnecessarily wide on the right by Holebas, Digne swept a free-kick from a tight angle onto to the top of the crossbar.

The best chance would fall to Calvert-Lewin, however, and it came from the unexpectedly skilful feet of Zouma. The centre-back had stayed forward following a corner and after twisting his marker, he clipped a tempting cross that was met by the striker but he guided his header a couple of yards wide of goal when he had to at least hit the target.

He did with the final chance of the game, this time from Bernard’s centre but his header lacked power and Foster was able to gather.

As if things weren’t bad enough, one of the better performers on the day, Zouma, would be sent off after the final whistle for remonstrating with the referee over what he regarded as a poor decision to award the corner that led to Watford’s goal. That will earn him a one-game ban that rules him out of the trip to Cardiff in two and a half weeks’ time.

That game now takes on added significance for Silva who badly needs a win to alleviate the pressure that is increasing with each defeat. The thought of going through further managerial upheaval at Goodison holds all the appeal of… well, watching Everton slog their way through another fruitless 90 minutes, to be honest but at some point it will become patently obvious that the current incumbent of the hot seat isn’t capable of reversing the slide.

It’s beginning to feel like we’re already there because Silva’s Everton have no identity, no workable system or formation, no consistency in defending set-pieces, no threat up front and, seemingly, no inspiration from the dugout. Not all of those problems are of the manager’s making but it is job to resolve them. Again, with Moshiri likely to give him until the end of the season to show progress, he still has time but with five of the 11 games against the top six, it’s not going to be easy.

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Reader Comments (161)

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Ian Linn
1 Posted 10/02/2019 at 05:07:24
The season is over, whether Marco goes now or at season's end makes no difference but I wouldn't want to keep Marco and give him money in the summer. He's not good enough.
Rob Marsh
2 Posted 10/02/2019 at 06:30:38
Looking at the fixtures and our current form, I cannot see where the points are coming from, maybe a few draws but that's about it.

Strangely the bookies are offering 250/1 on relegation, I would have thought those odds would have come right in? Let's hope they're right like usual.

Jim Bennings
3 Posted 10/02/2019 at 06:43:42
Every time Moshiri speaks he just makes himself look a bigger tool than the previous statement.

“Our own Fab Four” (Tosun and Bolasie were included in that hahahaha)

“We don’t expect to beat the top six” (well make that the top ten now Farhad)

“We are no longer a museum”

No, museums are run by intelligent people, we are run by jackass spin doctors and snake oil salesmen.

Guess what?

There will be at least six more “L” results this season.

What’s our record loss total in the Premier League?

We could be beating that this season.

Brian Porter
4 Posted 10/02/2019 at 07:15:53
This year I should be 'celebrating' 60 years as a fan, but could someone tell me just what is worth celebrating at present?

Moshiri hired a manager with a relegation on his CV and who has never completed a season in charge of a Premier League club, so what did we seriously expect?

My epileptic dog would appear to have more knowledge of football than our much heralded billionaire owner. None of his billions of course were made from football.

Silva is incompetent, inexperienced, incapable, and as far as his pressers are concerned, mostly incomprehensible. If he talks to the players the way he talks to the press, it's no wonder we're in such a mess. They probably don't know what the hell he's talking about either.

In any business, if things are going wrong, a good manager takes immediate steps to put things right. With Silva, there is no change at all. Same inane tactics, same predictable substitutions, (take off best players, throw on every attacker on the bench), and no sign of any passion from the touchline.

We are, despite what some of us think, still in danger of falling into the relegation scrap, unless we can find a few wins, and can anyone, hand on heart, see where they're coming from?

Both Cardiff and Burnley are suddenly resurgent and we can count on the other teams below us to fight for every point between now and the end of the season. The operative word there is 'fight', the one important ingredient that Silva is incapable of instilling in our team. If he could do it, we would have seen it by now

Vote of confidence or not, surely Moshiri can see his words were seriously misplaced and that the time has come to protect his investment in the club, before we free-fall into oblivion?

What would be the point of a new ground of we end up languishing in the championship? If he can't see that then he's as incompetent as Silva. How long does he need before he acts? Wait until we are a couple of points above the bottom three and it will be too late for anyone to make a difference. The time to act is now, while there's time for somebody, anybody, or any black cat, to save us from disaster. The Portuguese see a black cat as a portent of disaster and bearing in mind our black cat moment came in a home game, that can only have been intended for Silva.

The time to act is NOW, before we deteriorate even further.

Some 60th anniversary celebration eh?

Peter Barry
5 Posted 10/02/2019 at 07:54:10
This club's owners are usually three or four months behind seeing what the supporters can see oh so clearly... so don't expect any action from them. Not until it's too late and we are deep in relegation trouble anyway.
Jerome Shields
6 Posted 10/02/2019 at 08:31:44
The problems were all there from the start of the season. Not only did Silva not address them, he failed to even recognise them.

His extra midfielder was, in my opinion, an attempt to address the tactic started successfully by Newcastle and by subsequent teams to flood Everton's midfield.

The basic defending rule of staying close and aiming to get in front of the player you are marking and always challenging the ball doesn't seem to be in Silvas coaching repertoire.

The continual mismatching and changing of forwards gives Everton one of the worst pass-completion rates in the Premier League in the final third. Every team knows that, in a Silva side, the forwards' objective is to shoot rather than pass, no matter how unsuitable.

Richarlison is devoid of any evidence of coaching development on appropriate passing or the importance of pass completion. A totally unsuitable forward combination with Tosun. Tosun as a lone striker was never going to happen, He doesn't have the pace. The peripheral Walcott was never going to be a game changer.

It all got too desperate for any successful substitutions in the closing period of the game.

The unaddressed problems are starting to snowball and have been since Xmas. The attempt by Silva to throw the kitchen sink at them from the off against Watford failed.

Martin Mason
7 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:07:46
As I've said a couple of times, there is one common presence in Everton's era of lack of success and that is Bill Kenwright. He has massive influence still and I believe his fingerprints are all over the poor selection of managers and the inability to step up from a poor bottom half team to better things when resources are finally available.

One person has to be offloaded quickly and it isn't Silva just yet. It is the brooding presence of the ghost of seasons past.

Tony Everan
8 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:11:21
Groundhog Day. No threat and set piece leads to the opposition scoring.

Lyndon, You could write the match report on Friday night and put your feet up for the rest of the weekend.

Like most Blues, desperately disappointed yet again, mulling it all over in bed in the quiet hours of early morning.

The thought that bothers me greatly is that after Wolves went 2-1 ahead, and yesterday after Watford went 1-0, I knew that was it.

It is heartbreaking that we have no response. The quality, drive, belief and dynamism that are the hallmarks of Everton Football Club have gone.

There are many issues, but I will keep on banging on about not having the necessary quality goal scorer.

Lukaku was a 25-goal-a-season striker, we were always in the game with him, always had threat. in four seasons he got 16, 20, 25, & 26 goals. We were knocking on the door of the top 6 in a couple of his years here. The last time we finished 5th was when Yakubu scored 21. It raises other players games . We had bad problems during his time too but at least we had threat and the chance to win games from nothing.

Getting in a class goal scorer is the most important thing in football. No goals, no wins. Alex Ferguson would move heaven and earth to get his goal scorers in, he knew it was life and death for his teams.

Tosun is trying but as Lyndon says is a few shades short of the required quality. Calvert-Lewin needs to learn his trade week in week out on loan in the Championship for a season. I want to see him prove himself and come back a better player.

Nothing will improve with any sustainability until we have the top class striker in. It is an absolute priority, and has been for the last 2 years since Lukaku left.

Since that time we have been in a whirlpool of decline we can't swim out of, no matter how hard any manager, staff or player tries.

Jimmy Hogan
9 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:16:03
Absolutely right in your last paragraph, Lyndon. What is our identity as a team? What exactly is the point of Everton under Silva? I'm damned if I can see it.
John Keating
10 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:17:02
Tony, the sad thing is we could spend a fortune in a top class goal scorer but the poor bugger would get no service or help from the clowns we have at present.
Paul Birmingham
11 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:21:46
Something must be done now as the toxic atmosphere will get worse and worse as this wretched season fades out. The club has become the blueprint for accepting mediocrity and abject failure.

The can lies with the manager, coaches and players, and they need to take a serious look at this mess and decide if they want to fight their way out of it.

It doesn't bode well for the rest of this season.

Ken Kneale
12 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:23:36
I wonder what they actually do discuss when they have a board meeting. The sandwich choice perhaps?

How on earth have we got to this if we have professional and competent people asking the right questions about the attitude, application and ability of those they employ.

Harry Catterick once said he felt a failure when we finished 3rd in 1968-69. The current staff, on that scale of self-reflection, would be resigning.

Ian Pilkington
13 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:31:17
Martin, you are spot on regarding the continued presence of Kenwright. 3 years after the Moshiri takeover, he incredibly remains on the Board as Chairman and is probably advocating the return of his beloved Moyes. A frightening thought.
Ian Hollingworth
14 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:35:25
Bill Kenwright has reigned as Everton Chairman for what is our worst period on record. The dreamer who runs the football club like it is one of his plays, where in his head he has written a glorious ending.

The self-proclaimed best ever Evertonian could not keep up financially when the money exploded in the Premier League. Bill really needed to sell the club to someone with the financial clout to take the club forward to realise Evertons dreams.

This was a problem, though, as the ending for his dreamy plays had our very own Bill holding aloft the trophy and his name in lights over the shiny new stadium. Bill needed a clueless mug with some money to buy his shares but still let Bill be chairman. Haha, as if there was such a fool out there.

Cue Moshiri, obviously a good lieutenant in business to Usmanov but clearly not well versed in football and apparently a dreamer too as he was suckered into Bill's dream and left Boys Pen Bill as Chairman.

Although we don't know the extent of Bill's involvement I suspect it is far too much given the amount of jobs for the boys at the club and Unsworth's own words during his caretaker stint last season that the Chairman rings him several times a day.

We should be very afraid of the Moshiri / Kenwright double act. Their choices of Managers has been horrendous and transfer dealings absolutely laughable.

Why oh why does a great club like Everton keep looking to employ managers whose only notable record in the Premier League is a relegation.

Marco Silvas record in the Premier League regarding performances, set pieces, relegation and not lasting very long at all should have been scrutinised thoroughly and then it would have been clear he was not what was required at Everton FC, regardless of his fabled stories of being a great young coach.

Instead our dreamy duo of clowns pursued him and paid compensation for him. The result is what we are witnessing now, another clueless clown who is out of his depth.

How long can this miserable dream go on? Well, I fear it will go on as long as the dreamy duo are involved together regardless of who is manager.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum, don't make me laugh, it should be changed to ‘Home of the Clueless Clowns'.

There goes the positive attitude I have tried to maintain since the Spurs defeat.

Ian Hollingworth
15 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:38:07
Ian @ 13, sadly you are spot on about Kenwright and Moyes as apparently they have remained great friends and Bill would have him back as manager at the drop of a hat.
Stan Schofield
16 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:43:18
I always felt that Moshiri was wrong when he said we're not a museum.

A club's identity comes from two things, the history and the supporters. To retain the identity, the history is vital. We should be a museum whilst progressing in the present. The museum aspect should inspire us, drive us forward to demand success. The museum tells us how professional we were in the past, and how our success was helped by that professionalism.

It's the history (the museum) and the supporters that make (or should make) us regard mid-table as simply intolerable, to drive us to the top again.

It strikes me that the culture at the top of Everton does not fit our identity (our history and supporters) well. To be a good fit, the culture needs to be professional, and to understand what football at the very top requires. The present culture does not seem to tick those boxes, and until it does Everton will remain mediocre.

Paul Tran
17 Posted 10/02/2019 at 09:49:29
He's had the vote of confidence.

He's been described as 'beleaguered' (key word).

He's appearing to pick the team and formation out of a hat.

The players look confused and clueless.

We're getting used to this, aren't we?

We know what's coming soon, don't we?

Bill Watson
18 Posted 10/02/2019 at 10:17:01
Lyndon; your final paragraph sums it up, perfectly. It's time for Moshiri to bite the bullet and get rid of this disaster of a manager.

The argument that he won't be sacked because we're already paying around £14m a year to ex managers is ludicrous. That's the price of a mediocre squad player and the alternative is losing £ms in placing money or, even, relegation.

He needs to go, and to go now, and not at the end of the season.

George Mc Kane
19 Posted 10/02/2019 at 10:25:09
Brian @ 4 - - like you I am "celebrating" 60 years as a Match Going Evertonian this year and coincidentally and interestingly 40 years of "dropping out" and living by my wits and endeavours as an artist.

I have seen success and failure but have stuck with Everton - - in recent months for the first time in 60 years I have missed several games through illness and for the first time in my life hospital - - but I have literally dragged myself out of hospital/bed to get to the game. I went to The City game straight from Clatterbridge Cancer Centre on Wednesday.

I have thought how to respond and I can only say that the "L" Column should also stand for "Lost".

We are completely lost - - everything involved in the footballing side is at the moment a complete disaster and failure:

- - dreadful Management recruitment
- - poor signings
- - poor Club Management at Board Level
- - woeful lack of any team spirit
- - no drive or ambition
- - seemingly no care desire or passion
- - disgraceful decision making on selection, tactics, free kicks, corners, passes
- - no will to win
- - no responsibility
- - no leadership anywhere within the Club
- - acceptance of defeat and no fight

I see Fred Pickering died - - - saw his hat trick debut against Forest - - never saw him as "the best" but he could score - - - how we could do with someone like Fred now.

Of course I will continue to go to every game but there is absolutely "nothing" and I mean "nothing" at Goodison that excites me or even right now gives me hope for the future - - L is for Losers from top to bottom - - except for the wonderful fans of course.

I carry my cosmic grooves around with me and the heart surgeon and Cancer Specialist both told me it was "my spirit" that helped get me through - - I am near enough through it all now - - where is the "spirit" at Goodison.

I pass on my cosmic grooves to All Blues - - we are Bluetiful.

Jon Withey
20 Posted 10/02/2019 at 10:36:03
I'm gobsmacked our finances aren't completely shafted – we've been throwing money away for years now – Silva will just be another example of that if he goes.

I suppose it must be the interest free loan from Moshiri that allows it because we'd be swimming in debt under Kenwright, so we owe him that much – it's just a shame it has gone to waste.

I'm trying to stay positive, player recruitment and sales seems a bit better since Brands in my opinion, but the coaching and management of those players seems no better than Martinez last season.

Eddie Dunn
21 Posted 10/02/2019 at 10:38:17
George, sorry that you've been so ill, I know many of us have missed your lovely matchday routine. Glad you are on the mend and will add your voice to the Goodison ambience once again.

As for Silva, you have summed it up with your list. the guy has lost it. The players have no faith in his methods – if they understood him to begin with. A sensible course of action is to quickly arrange a caretaker manager and fire him.

He is lucky his next game is away because I think the home fans have reached the point of toxicity. If he had any honour, he would hold his hands up and aplogise to all and sundry for the mistakes and beg for a bit longer. Alas, he is waiting for either a miracle or the pay-off.

Tony Everan
22 Posted 10/02/2019 at 11:00:35
George #19

Everything you say there is true, Mr Brands has got his work cut out to sort it. He is a director now and needs to grab the club by the scruff of the neck.

The fans of the club are what makes Everton great. In 10 days time, the fans will be back supporting and willing the club to win, at the Cardiff ground, all over Merseyside, and the world.

I remember the very dark days as a teenager before we went on our mid-eighties rampage. We were terrible, but I remember turning up to the match one dark midweek game and thinking the more the adversity the more the fans need to support the club.

Anyway on a different cosmic level altogether, all the best to you, George, great that you are feeling better.

David Hallwood
23 Posted 10/02/2019 at 11:31:42
Great report as ever, Lyndon. A couple of points: Firstly, I'm getting a bit tired of the Kenwright bashing and even though I've always been ambivalent towards him, this is getting like the "We're shite because of Heysel" excuse.

We're shite because we're shite, end of; and the players don't need the 'legacies' of skint Bill or supposed European domination ripped from our grasp to perform as poorly as they've been doing for the past 2 months?

Where is their professional pride? Are their agents still knocking at the manager's door telling him that 'my boy' is top class and needs to be paid accordingly?

Next question, do we sack Silva? I posted during the week that Gana is our senior player and he's been here for 3 seasons, next comes Davies & Kenny and all the rest came this season or last.
So it's a new side that will take time to bed in.

So if we sack Silva the whole process starts over again, so will the next manager be Moyesesque dynasty. or Bobby Brown Shoes, Koeman, Silva revolving door, with Moshiri throwing ever more of his billions at under-performing players.

That being said Silva's team selection yesterday was baffling. On the back of a decent energetic performance against City, he shuffled the pack unnecessarily, and his perseverance with playing Sigurdsson in roles he's totally unsuited for makes me wonder how he managed to get the reputation of a great coach.

Sigurdsson isn't a left-sided attacker, he's too slow to be a No 10, so play him further back, a la Montino at Wolves, or bench him and bring him on with 20-30 to go when we're (hopefully) winning.

Once again, a depressing season to be a blue; and thank God for the good start.

Dave Abrahams
24 Posted 10/02/2019 at 11:32:45
George (19) — nice to hear from you, George. I hope you are over the worst of your illness and start a gradual improvement from now on. If the team also improved, that would be a big help to you as well.

Best wishes to you, George.

Bill Watson
25 Posted 10/02/2019 at 11:33:24
Welcome back, George! I'm also a member of the 60+ supporters club!!

Your last point is, perhaps, the most salient. All of us, from the top to the bottom, seem to accept defeat far too easily. It certainly wouldn't have been tolerated in the 1960s.

Ryan Holroyd
26 Posted 10/02/2019 at 11:52:17
I particularly rate Silva but sacking him and then we'll just get the latest mid sized premier league clubs manager/lower league.

Our last managers have come from:

Watford
Unemployed
Southampton
Wigan
Preston

The club as a whole is a joke and has been since the 60s in all honesty.

Stan Schofield
27 Posted 10/02/2019 at 12:17:56
David@23: Good post. On the face of it Moshiri appears not to really know what he's been doing with his money, but then there's hope that the appointment of Brands will finally sort things out and introduce a more structured and professional approach to both managerial and player appointments. But if that doesn't work out, then the only hope of progression from habitual mid-table is someone with really massive wealth (rather than Moshiri's relative mini-wealth) coming on board.
John Raftery
28 Posted 10/02/2019 at 12:33:07
Picking up Lyndon’s reference to Zouma’s ‘unexpectedly skilful feet’, I have felt for several weeks we should try him in central midfield. He has a strong physical presence, some pace and a measure of quality on the ball. Chelsea used him as a holding midfielder in one of their League Cup Final victories a few years ago. Obviously we would need a fit centre half to step into the back line.
Brian Harrison
29 Posted 10/02/2019 at 12:34:11
Stan

I hope you are right about Brands although I have little faith in the position of DOF. I think all it does is add another layer of confusion, and our recent history tells us it doesnt work. Koeman and Walsh the dream team who between them bought 3 number 10s, so who did decide that Rooney,Klassen and Sigurdsson would be good buys. Also who sanctioned buying Sandro and paying him £100,000 per week Walsh or Koeman, who bought Onyekuru and agreed to pay him £40,000 a week without finding out if we could get clearance for him to play for us.

Then move onto Brands and Silva who bought Mina? and then took Zouma on loan again 2 men in position to buy players doesnt work. Usually top managers tell clubs who they want and the DOF goes and does the deal, not like us were both DOF and manager buy players.

Brent Stephens
30 Posted 10/02/2019 at 12:51:00
John "Picking up Lyndon’s reference to Zouma’s ‘unexpectedly skilful feet’, I have felt for several weeks we should try him in central midfield".

Or up front! Any port in a storm! Didn't Fred Pickering start as a defender and ended up as a forward? John Charles? Gareth Bale?

And Sandy Brown could play anywhere.

Rick Tarleton
31 Posted 10/02/2019 at 12:52:10
Listening to this morning's "Sunday Supplement" really peed me off. One reporter suggested that Allardyce had done a great job and we should have stuck to him. One suggested that although Silva was useless we had to stick with him because all we were doing was swopping managers without any sense of purpose and one suggested that Everton fans had false ideas of our status and we were not of Liverpool's stature as a club.
To the outside world Everton F.C. are not the team that "if you know your history" still ranks as one of the icons of the English games.We are simply a team that loses to the Watfords of this world.
And, in fact, without history, we are such a team, a mid-table team whose pretensions to glory are slightly risible. I've seen Everton win the League four times since I started watching them, three FA Cup wins and of course our one European trophy, but I'm beginning to doubt if we will rise again.
Can anyone lift the gloom? At least I have had some great teams to follow and seen some truly great players in the royal blue shirts, any fan under thirty five has seen nothing but disappointment.
Bill Watson
32 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:08:57
Ryan; #26

Please share your insight with the rest of us and tell us what you 'particularly rate' about Silva.

I agree we have become a bit of a joke but let's not get carried away. There was a period, in the 1980s, when we weren't that bad!

Anthony A Hughes
33 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:26:54
I saw that as well, Rick. It was that prick Neil Custis. Basically he was saying "Who do Everton fans think they are?"
David Pearl
34 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:35:03
I don't know what's worse. The form of our current squad and manager or having to read the equally abysmal ramblings on ToffeeWeb pages. "Whaaaa... it's all Bills fault."

I guess it's obvious, so many opinions, mainly wide of the mark, lots of finger pointing. It was obvious to me Koeman was a mistake, especially such a change in style to Martinez (oh, I'm sorry, I should call him Brown Shoes, shouldn't I). Allardyce was necessary and did enough to get more time... but no, he was hounded out. Next came a strange choice in Silva.

Whether Arteta (and yes Pep got the Barca job with no senior experience) or Moyes or Santa, we need someone that actually knows what he has in the squad. We all knew that Moyes got a response from the team after any setback. But now to this when we don't even look like ever turning a corner (or ever scoring from one). Whatever. I'm done will all this bollox.

Tony Hill
35 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:36:42
Rick @3, I saw that programme and I am afraid most of it rang true.

My hope, for what it's worth, is that we stick with Silva who in the first few months of the season sketched out (and I stress "sketched") a style and approach which Evertonians rightly found promising. The wheels have obviously come off but I persist in the view that a top striker and commanding midfielder (ideally two of each) would transform this side.

No-one could manage the unbalanced, unthreatening outfit we currently have to more than a couple of places either side of 10th. Once we get that balance and threat – and the strength of mind to be introduced by a proper leader(s) – then we will have a chance over a 5-year period to develop and in the end to maintain a challenge at the higher level of the Premier League.

We depend on Brands to deliver the base for that, on our board acting intelligently and on our milksop players growing up and realising their privilege. Of course, it could go the other way and, specifically, if we don't get in serious strikers then we will carry on flopping and could easily get into a downward spiral.

I don't think that throwing names around for a new manager will help us one bit because it doesn't get to the root causes and it lets the real culprits off the hook.

Tom Bowers
36 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:36:52
We thought we had enough dark days under previous managers but this is taking the piss!

Can't get any worse? Just wait and see... Hard to see this squad having anything that would frighten a kids team – let alone the Premier League.

Moshiri and Co are totally to blame. They put so much effort into getting this guy who had no pedigree whatsoever to recommend him... and why? Who's bright idea was it?

They have done the same thing with some of the second rate players they have obtained who were generally out of favour elsewhere but were considered good enough to come to Goodison and now look at the mess.

Roll on, May!

Bill Watson
37 Posted 10/02/2019 at 13:56:09
Tony #35,

We are IN a downward spiral and it alarms me that the current manager doesn't seem to have the slightest idea how to get out of it.

Tony Hill
38 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:05:50
Yes, I agree, Bill @37, we are in a very bad run but I meant a real spiral into relegation and a Villa or, God forbid, Sunderland scenario. I don't think we are at any risk of relegation this season but we will be in due course if we keep changing the manager in the expectation that we're just being held back by tactics and man-management skills.

I think it goes a lot deeper than that, and I also think that it goes back many years.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

39 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:23:53
George @ 19.

First, good to hear that you are not quite ready to 'go gentle into that good night'. Keep on raging and keep on winning that fight, fellah.

As for your post, you capture very neatly what we are as a club these days:

'Lost'. And lost in all the ways you list, and more.

Only at Everton, it seems, can we finally land a billionaire benefactor (which was the trigger for lesser clubs to rise to the top of pile) and actually get worse and go into reverse.

Three years of serious money has been thrown into the pot. Three years of musical chairs for the manager's post. Three years of excruciatingly bad player recruitment...and we are considerably poorer for it.

Marco Silva will, in all likelihood given Moshiri's words this week, remain in situ until the end of the season. Beyond that, without a serious, SERIOUS upturn in fortunes, all bets that he will still be our manager into the summer are off.

What a mess. How 'Lost' we truly are, George.

Clive Rogers
40 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:32:33
As another 60+ years supporter, I feel we are now in the worst position I can remember. We just don't have the players to get out of this mess. We are not safe, but are 9 points above the relegation zone and losing every game.

I also blame Kenwright for this dreadful mess. This is his legacy after 20 years of decline, an utter shambles of a club from top to bottom, populated by Kenwright's chums, old boys and yes men. It is a disgrace and an insult to the fans that he remains as chairman.

The situation has not been helped by shocking purchases. Walcott, Tosun, Bernard, Richarlison, Mina — all not good enough. Sigurdsson looks finished to me, his legs have gone. Bought too late, he is 30 in September.

Clive Rogers
41 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:36:41
Tony, #38, did you look at the table and fixtures before you said we won’t go down?
Tony Hill
42 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:44:08
We need maybe two wins, Clive @41, or a couple of draws and a win to be absolutely safe but, in any event, Fulham and Huddersfield are gone and at least two of the other sides below us will not suddenly accelerate.

Derek Knox
43 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:52:34
Good to see you back George, and hope that you are on the up, which is more than can be said of our once beloved Club, it brings many a tear to grown men's eyes.
Clive Rogers
44 Posted 10/02/2019 at 14:53:59
You are probably right, Tony, on reflection, but I have never known such an alarming slump as this. Leaky defence, non-creative midfield and no striker at all.

Surely Silva should have known Richarlison's faults.

Tony Hill
45 Posted 10/02/2019 at 15:00:11
Yes, Clive, I agree about Richarlison in particular. He's been a great disappointment after his start.
Paul Tran
46 Posted 10/02/2019 at 15:11:22
Great to see you back at the match and on here, George.

Management & players should have a chat with you about overcoming real adversity.

John Keating
47 Posted 10/02/2019 at 15:25:38
Don't know what everyone's moaning about? We are in transition!
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

48 Posted 10/02/2019 at 15:36:30
Clive Rogers (and others, across various threads).

I have to guess you are not a gambling man?

Or if you are, you're not a punter who studies form and runs the numbers before having a bet, and so regularly hand over your money to the bookies on a hunch.

Why do I say that? Because of the following:

You – and many others – continue to base your belief that we will be sucked into a relegation fight because you can't see where we are going to garner 7 points from in our remaining 11 fixtures to reach the 'mythical 40 points' tally.

We don't NEED 40 points to be safe from relegation.

In the 23 seasons since the PL moved to a 38 game season, only 3 teams of a possible 69 relegated teams were relegated with 40 points and above: Sunderland in 1996-97 with 40 points, Bolton in 1997-98 (40) and West Ham in 2002-03 (42).

The last time a team was truly 'saved' from relegation by getting to 40 points was in 2010-11, when both Birmingham and Blackpool were relegated with 39 points.

For the last 11 seasons now, 35-36 points is the 'new 40' to be safe from relegation. This season will be no different, looking at the current Premier League table and form as it stands.

Huddersfield and Fulham are gone. They are not getting out of the hole they are in. That leaves one more relegation spot, currently occupied by Southampton on goal difference with Newcastle, with both on 24 points – 9 points behind us. Then you have Cardiff on 25 and 3 clubs – Palace, Brighton and Burnley – on 27 points. All these teams are averaging a point or less per game over the season.

In taking a Doomsday approach and claiming Everton can still be sucked into a relegation scrap, people are looking at Everton in isolation, as if we are the only team struggling to get points. We are not.

Is Everton's form since the defeat at Anfield in early December relegation from? Abso-bally-lutely! And yet – even in this pitiful run in which we have won just 11 points, we are not in the bottom 3 form table in the 12 games played since then.

Those 3 places are filled by Brighton and Fulham (9 points) and Huddersfield (1 point). Leicester also have just 11 points in that time, Newcastle 12, Bournemouth 13 and Cardiff and Palace 15.

The notion that Everton can still be relegated THIS season rests on the highly improbable logic that all six teams still battling to avoid the third relegation spot (plus 3 other teams still behind us in the league, but closer on points to us: West Ham, Bournemouth and Leicester) will ALL put in a winning run of performances (which none of them have achieved this season to date), whereas Everton will run Sunderland's all-time Premier League record of 15 consecutive defeats close and not pick up another point for the rest of the season.

This notion also ignores that ALL the clubs below us also play many games against the same group of clubs. That is, they will be taking points off each other.

The bookies odds on Everton being relegated are long for a good reason: Everton will not be relegated this season.

Should this be the height of our ambition? Was this what Silva, Brands and new players were recruited for? Again, abso-bally-lutely not!

It is a shame, a disgrace, how pitiful our performances and form is. This needs to be seriously reviewed at the end of the season.

Because whilst I am adamant we will stumble our way to the absolute minimum of another 3-6 points which will still be enough to avoid relegation THIS season, like many, I am concerned that starting next season with the same manager and the same form would most certainly see us in a relegation dogfight in 2019-20.

Pat Kelly
49 Posted 10/02/2019 at 16:07:01
If Silva isn't gone by the end of the season, then you can give up on supporting Everton. They will have thrown in the towel. This once great Club has been reduced to a pitiful whipping boy.

The management has once again been taken for a ride by a conman masquerading as a manager. Blame Silva all you like but the management, Kenwright and Moshiri, hired him. That's where the blame lies.

Who's to say they won't do it again. Experience tells us they will, unless someone who knows what they're doing, Brands? takes the decision. The never-ending project continues...

David Hallwood
50 Posted 10/02/2019 at 16:34:39
Good post, Jay (#48). I don't know how long you've been supporting Everton; like some posters on here, I've been here for 60 years, but let's just concentrate on the Premier League years.

Without doubt, this is the most head-boiling season I've witnessed in the Premier League years, because we've seen some dross and this ranks with some of the worst, but why?

When we had good honest triers like Scott Gemmill, Carl Tiler, Mitch Ward, we were relegation fodder and you can rationalise that.

This is different. This is a group of talented players that we've seen put good performances in up to and including the derby.

Lack of character? Lack of motivation? We've seen Man Utd transformed (albeit with better players) with a change of manager. But, like you, I agree that we ain't going down (but we could finish up bottom half) but let's get to summer, get rid of the still top-heavy squad and see where we are around Christmas.

Stan Schofield
51 Posted 10/02/2019 at 17:05:20
It's just the usual Everton 'melt-down' that follows a brief period of hope and falsely raised expectations. This melt-down always involves talk of possible relegation and alternative managers.

And chances are it will be the usual mid-table finish, points somewhere between 45 and 60 (at the lower end this season), and many suggestions on how to get out of the cycle and return to glory.

As far as I can see, we can get out of the cycle and return to glory only by having someone like Usmanov here, with money to attract the very best players.

Tony Hill
52 Posted 10/02/2019 at 17:16:53
Yes, Stan, the truth of that is being played out at the Etihad now.
Paul Tran
53 Posted 10/02/2019 at 17:23:07
Top post, Jay. As a (usually) cerebral punter, the simple answer is that the many teams below us will play each other and take points off each other.

The real issue is that we have to recruit managers better. The unlikely, but worth a go, stellar appointment, or another hopeful punt.

I'd make the focus as much on communication and man-management as on winning titles in other countries. It is abundantly clear that Martinez, Koeman and now Silva were/are unable to get their ideas across to the players and motivate them.

Yes, the players should do this themselves, but it all stems from the management. The best leaders in any walk of life have this ability.

We have a half-decent, if imbalanced squad. It badly needs a strong character to manage it.

Phil Greenough
54 Posted 10/02/2019 at 17:25:54
Yes, Everton are a mess at the moment, but at least we weren't thrashed 5-0, and counting, last Wednesday. You need a large amount of Prozac to read the ToffeeWeb forums, due to the amount of negativity, it's so depressing.
Ryan Holroyd
55 Posted 10/02/2019 at 17:36:27
The only person I have faith in at Everton is Marcel Brands.
Darren Hind
57 Posted 10/02/2019 at 18:43:57
Paul T

You can bet your life that those claiming we won't win another game and will get relegated will not be backing their bold statements up with hard cash. They know they would be given a very warm reception down the bookies, but they won't be going.

Fantastic to hear Huddersfield fans singing "We'll fight to the end!"

Some of our lot are already singing "We'll raise the white flag."

Gary Hughes
60 Posted 10/02/2019 at 18:59:32
Anyone calling for that horrible cunt Benitez needs to go & watch a few Newcastle games. Also bear in mind we beat them home & away last season with possibly the worst team in our recent history.

Rafa the genius has left a trail of disaster behind him across Europe since the shite dumped him and the UEFA cup win for Chelsea was even luckier than anything he spawned across the park.

Clive Rogers
61 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:01:33
Ryan, #55, I felt the same when he was appointed, but have been concerned about some of his first signings.

Mina looks a complete write off to me, slow, poor tackler, not dominant in the air, miss judges crosses, prone to foot injuries.

Bernard, too lightweight and never scores.

Gomes, slow, doesn't provide assists or goals.

Let's hope he becomes more familiar with the demands of the Premier League.

Bill Watson
62 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:11:53
Paul # 53

I agree we have a half decent squad which the current manager cannot get a tune out of and the next manager needs to be a proven communicator and not some hopeful punt.

It's also true many of the teams below us have to play each other and so cannot win all their matches. The alarming thing is they seem to be able to beat us quite easily (Burnley excepting) and maybe, like Cardiff and Burnley, others may put a bit of a run together.

I've seen all our games and we've been showing relegation form more, or less, since the Derby match. I cannot recall a single game where we've put concerted pressure on a side apart from the last few desperate minutes but there have been plenty of times when, so-called, lesser clubs have had us under the cosh for 15-20 minute spells.

If we lose to Cardiff, which is more than likely, they close the gap a little further. This is not being negative: it's facing the reality of what could become a desperate situation. We're now reduced to hoping for a point, at Cardiff, to maintain the status quo.

Paul Hewitt
63 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:14:20
Gary@ 60. Why would we possibly want a manager with PROVEN management ability. CL winner, upteen trophies around Europe. Yeah let's stick with the Silva's of this world. Big club. Don't make me laugh.
Ron Marr
64 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:35:19
Agreed, extremely unlikely we'll be relegated this season, it's next season that's the concern.
Jay Harris
65 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:41:47
George,

So glad you're on the mend and able to rejoin the 60+ club. A very privileged club that has seen the NSNO flag waving proudly through many decades.

However since the inception of the Premier League which we were leading advocates of and included in the "top 5" as it was then known our serial decline has been huge.

It is sad to see so many supporters saying don't blame Kenwright but at a time when football was awash with money and potential investors all he was interested in was holding on to his trainset and running us on a shoestring without any investment by him and ridiculously expensive and shady loans from his buddies.

He has set us back so far that it is hard to imagine ever rejoining the elite.

Can any of us imagine Sir John Moores reaction after that 2-6 loss to Spurs at home.

There would have been a line of taxis on Goodison Road.

Any board with a modicum of ambition would have fired Silva on that one game alone but no this is Everton and we will try to back a drowning man until he actually drowns in which case we can claim it was sad but unavoidable.

I will never forget Kenwright's exclamation of "What a manager" when that dickhead Martinez got one decent result.

Clueless and lacking ambition except for his own ego massage.

Fran Mitchell
66 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:44:37
We are 9 points off relegation, Southampton are too a dreadful outfit.

But

Our next 5 home fixtures are: Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd and finally Burnely.

That could well be 4 straight home defeats before what could turn out to be a 6-pointer.

Last game of the season, away at title challengers Spurs.

Away at Newcastle, another 6 pointer. Away at Cardiff, also. Can you see Silva getting a result away at Palace? Or West Ham? Me neither.

If we continue in this vein, relegation is a possibility. Silva has to go, and asap.

Trevor Peers
67 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:49:37
Marco the brave, king of the "L" column, blazing his trail through our glorious history. Moshiri has publicly backed him to complete the project. He needs time.

Crazy days for the fans, I think we get off on the fear of relegation. Just about safe this season maybe ? but hey we got the whole of next season to sweat it out. We're hooked on our weekly shot of misery.

Anthony Murphy
68 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:49:53
Ron, my concern is that we may attempt to tread water for the next few years whilst focusing finances and energy generally on BMD. We don’t currently have the squad or manager for that strategy. If Brands has a remit to utilise youth and to sell before buying, we really do need to think about the right sort of manager needed for that specific task.
Michael Lynch
69 Posted 10/02/2019 at 19:50:47
Silva has failed. He's had enough time to show what he's got, and he's got fuck all. He had fuck all at Hull, and fuck all at Watford. We took a simple gamble on Silva - that his absolutely dire performance in the last dozen games of his reign at Watford was due to him being distracted by our attentions. To be fair, it was a stupid gamble, based on no evidence, but we went with it. And we lost that gamble. In fact, he was gash at Watford for a much more simple reason - he's shit.

Having confirmed that he's shit - which he clearly is - sack him. Now or at the end of the season, whatever. Who should we get in? I have no idea, that's for Brands to decide. I mean, the club pay him a lot of money to know who to appoint, so let him do it. If he gets it wrong again, sack that fucker as well. And sack Brands at the same time.

This football lark - it's not complicated.

Gary Hughes
70 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:03:09
Paul@63 who mentioned keeping Silva? That same sack of shit team of ours that turned over rafa the genius's Newcastle home & away also came back from 2 down to beat Silvas Watford. We should of known there and then what we were letting ourselves in for.
Don Alexander
71 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:08:10
Has there ever been a football club so full of 24-carat posers as Everton? From Moshiri talking bollocks as the boss, to Kenwright nicking 20 years off us whilst he looked for a gullible billionaire, to the appointment of gold-winning smile bobby-dazzler "Lil' Miss Dynamite" as Kenwright's, sorry, Moshiri's CEO, to stuffing Finch Farm with Kenwright's chosen few in the "coaching" department, to signing managers and players whose only interest seems to be the size of the contract? Christ, what could possibly go wrong?

The way it's going I'm becoming regrettably confident that the day after Bramley-Moore Dock is opened as our new home there'll be a hitherto unknown fissure discovered in the earth's crust that means our stadium ends up settling somewhere near Anglesey.

Danny Broderick
72 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:11:21
The worry for me is that, even if we get rid of Silva, most of these players have been underperforming for 3 or 4 managers now. It makes me think that Silva has got a thankless task here, and no decent manager would want to come near this squad.

Until the players on big contracts who don’t give a shit move on, we will always end up in this mess. We have a spineless dressing room. Do you think there’s been any finger pointing amongst the players? Any of them looking in the mirror? I don’t think so.

In a better dressing room with a few leaders, Richarlison would have been told to pack in all of this playacting. He keeps coming into the pitch, sulking, playing shite, and it’s allowed to keep happening. Very frustrating.

Frank Kearns
73 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:27:45
I’m of a similar mind Danny (72), but a lot of under- performance is from recent additions, what I can’t understand or accept is the “couldn’t give a shit” attitude prevalent amongst this squad - so what hasn’t changed under the recent managers - all I can think of is the back room staff - somebody has to be poisoning the thoughts, attitudes and ambitions of our squad.

Anthony A Hughes
74 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:30:23
From what I'm hearing, Peel Holdings have requested plans of the new stadium with the response being that from Everton can that be put that off until December.

We haven't even applied for planning permission yet and we have no concrete plans available for the design of the stadium until at the earliest next December.

Still pie in the sky.

Bill Watson
75 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:41:56
Fran #66.

Our fixture list and the way we're performing worries me, too. Maybe we'll get an unexpected win, or a couple of draws, somewhere along the way but that seems unlikely at the moment.

I think it's absolutely vital we avoid defeat at Cardiff.

John McFarlane Snr
76 Posted 10/02/2019 at 20:59:20
Hi George [19] welcome back. we'll have to make arrangements for your 70 years of support, when you can join myself and Dave Abrahams. The Midland Hotel will be well established as our headquarters by then, I'll be 90 years old and Dave is only two years behind me, hopefully the ' Football Gods' will smile down on us and we can celebrate ten years of domestic and European success.

On a serious note I too have experienced a bad year health wise, but not as bad as yourself, I admire your spirit, your Doctor and Consultant are spot on, when they say it's your spirit that has carried you through, if only the Everton players could display the same commitment.

I'm afraid that the last five managers have just about knocked the stuffing out of me, it no longer hurts me when we lose, I used to live for match days, but now there is no atmosphere and it's as though we anticipate the same lack lustre performances, the Manchester City game being an exception.

In closing George, once again it's good to know that you are on the mend, and we must make an excuse for another Midland Hotel get-together.

Andy Meighan
77 Posted 10/02/2019 at 21:19:22
Some brilliant posts on this thread. My own particular favourite was from Brian Porter. Once again the irrepressible Bennings. Jerome's was a cracker as well. And of course ToffeeWeb's favourite artisan George. Hope you're on the mend, pal. Lovely to see your name up again because, believe me, this site will be a sadder place without your musings.

That said, we are burying our dad tomorrow who, by the way, played professionally. He was actually a red but as life went on having raised 5 kids, 4 lads, all mad Blues always wanted us to be happy so loved it when they both won. Us lot didn't share that view, mind.

Anyway goodnight lads and lasses I'm doing the eulogy at the funeral so I may reference ToffeeWeb.
Danny Broderick
78 Posted 10/02/2019 at 21:51:21
Frank (73),

The poison is having a dressing room half full of players seeing out their days, some of whom couldn't care less about the club. Honestly, look at the players in our squad who are 28+, not performing, and know that this is their last pay day:

Stekelenburg
Baines
Jagielka
Schneiderlin
Walcott
Sigurdsson

Add in others who were on big money and ostracised:

Niasse
Mirallas
Bolasie
Sandro
Williams

We are probably still paying 50% of that lot's wages!

That could have been our first choice team! And they have all stunk the house out. With 2 or 3 notable exceptions (Baines, Jagielka, maybe Niasse), you can't tell me that that lot have been giving their all for the club, and have had a positive influence. It's bound to divide any dressing room having shit like this lot earning double and triple the wages of some of our unsung players like Gana Gueye.

We need to get rid of most of this lot, and get some young, hungry players with good character in. It's going to be a long painful journey I fear...

Ian Riley
79 Posted 10/02/2019 at 21:51:48
Huddersfield and Fulham are gone. It's one from five. We won't be relegated this season. Sunday evenings are becoming what do I say to work colleagues about another terrible performance.

I believe we are not working hard enough to defend our own goal. No leaders means no organising on the pitch. We all need a leader in a team to motivate, give a rollicking or put a arm round certain players. There is no substitute for hard work. The best teams in the world do it.

It's going to be the end of February till our next game. Enough time to change the management but whom? No club is going to release a manager involved in a league title. Might as well stick with silva. His biggest challenge of his management life coming up. His only defence is the team is not his own. Do we give up on someone just because they are struggling? The director of football needs to put his arm around silva and support him. He is still learning his trade.

Henry Lloyd
80 Posted 11/02/2019 at 03:09:16
Ian Riley @79

"He is still learning His Trade"!!

Has to be the most ridiculous comment I have ever read on ToffeeWeb.

What is your timeframe on completion of learning his trade????

Paul Cherrington
81 Posted 11/02/2019 at 10:21:24
I think you should stick with a manager where possible but only if there is evidence in their performance and the team's performance that it is warranted. there should also be a feeling that the manager knows what he is doing and things will get better soon, after the poor run of form you may have been on.

Just blindly sticking with a manager is a recipe for disaster if he does not show any of the above as it means things will not improve, however long you give him.

Unfortunately, for me, Silva does not show any of the signs that warrant more time or further chances. Sticking with him will simply see us lose more games and the situation get worse. Time to get rid and get a decent manager in – please, no more untried coaches at Premier League level or managers who have been relegated or performed badly at previous clubs. The signs were there with Silva if people had wanted to see them .


Tony Everan
82 Posted 11/02/2019 at 10:56:20
It is still possible Marco Silva can do a Houdini. What if we win away at Cardiff? We will start marginal favourites to win the game so why not.

We win that. Then we have a thread of confidence back at home against the RS. Away to them we matched them for 99.9% of the game until you know what happened. Why can't we do the same and better at home?

On current form those 2 wins are unlikely. But we were playing well up to that 96th-minute goal. If we can get that form back wins against Cardiff, then home against Liverpool are not impossible to imagine. What's the odds 7/4 and 7/1?

These next 2 games could redeem Silva, could change his future and Everton's future. Stranger things have happened at much bigger odds than them. Silva needs to pull the rabbit out of the hat over these 2 games, or Mr Moshiri will wave his wand and make Marco disappear.

A workman like win over Cardiff followed by a blood on the pitch win against Liverpool — with a few slices of luck in our favour for a change].

Dave Abrahams
83 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:05:44
Andy (77), very sorry to hear of your very sad loss, I hope everything goes well tomorrow for you and your family.
Michael Lynch
84 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:17:41
I was one of the people saying "we can't be relegated this season" until I fed some results in here:
https://www.worldfootball.net/table_calculator/eng-premier-league/

Try it. I didn't put anything ridiculous in, just feasible results, which did include us losing away at Cardiff and Newcastle, and at home to Liverpool and Chelsea (but those results would hardly be surprising on current form would they?).

Anyway, I had us in the bottom three by the middle of March. I stopped at that point – too scary. You might say it won't happen, but I'm starting to shit myself just a little bit.

On the bright side, Man City were two points clear after my calculations

Tony Everan
85 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:18:20
Andy #77, Condolences and all the best to you and your family.
Eddie Dunn
86 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:20:27
Ian #79. I don't understand why people feel that a manager needs to have a whole batch of players that he brings in. Most of the time the new guy gets a few of his (or the club's ) choices each season. It is surely in a manager's remit to get the best out of what he already has as well as his signings?
Derek Cowell
87 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:41:09
Watching MotD on Saturday night and saw the Crystal Palace highlights when once again they had loads of chances to score without success. I have seen this on a few previous MotD shows too.

Afterwards, Ian Wright commented that someone was going to get spanked by Palace soon. My immediate thought was that he could have been referring to us when we go there. It could well happen. Even Benteke will score against us, probably from a set piece!!

If a side gets 20-odd attempts against us, like Palace have had in a few of their home games, they wiil score a few!

Oliver Molloy
88 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:42:30
Yes Andy @ 77,

Sorry for your loss, it is never easy, but the memories are always for keeps.

Derek Cowell
89 Posted 11/02/2019 at 11:52:16
Regarding my post above, I've just noticed that we don't play Palace until 27 April. Hopefully all will be right by then!!!!!! (Tongue well in cheek!)
Brent Stephens
90 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:04:04
Andy #77 condolences.
Danny Baily
91 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:21:58
Michael 84, agreed. We shouldn't wait until we lose at Cardiff, we should act now and sack Silva before it's too late.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

92 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:32:29
Michael @ 84.

A fun link, but I'd love to know the results you keyed in that had us in the bottom 3 by mid-March: given current tallies by all teams, it is mathematically impossible on the points to be won and the fixtures to be played, even if you predicted the worst possible result for Everton of ALL the teams.

I completed the predictions – and that's all they are – to the last game of the season for all teams. I deliberately refrained from giving a single victory to Everton in the remaining games (which we will achieve, somewhere, somehow) and gave us at best a 1-1 draw.

I was as kind as possible to all the teams below us (many of who have to play many games themselves against each other, thus robbing each other of possible maximums), but still we finished 12th.

All the other teams in my biased predictions against Everton (other than Fulham and Huddersfield) garnered a better points return than us in the remaining fixtures, but even so, nowhere near enough to overhaul us.

The teams in most danger of filling that 3rd relegation spot on my calculations (and their very challenging fixtures) are Newcastle, Cardiff and Southampton.

Oh! And the pinkies across the park will win the title by one point from City.

Methinks you are scaremongering unnecessarily, Michael.

Sam Hoare
93 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:40:28
Michael @84 don't worry, I did the whole season and had us finishing 13th on 38 points. And I was being fairly pessimistic. I actually think we'll end up with around 42-46 points

RS lost the league on goal difference! Now that would be sweet.

Michael Lynch
94 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:49:57
Pleased to hear that nobody had the RS winning the title using my link above... and pleased that everyone else had us finishing mid table.

I only entered results up to and including the Chelsea game. The teams around and below us play each other quite a few times over that period, and I entered completely feasible results – literally not one of them would be a shock – but obviously erred towards the worst case scenario for us.

Of course, results aren't going to follow exactly the scores that I entered, but I didn't have to overdo things much to have us in the third relegation spot. So, it's clearly not impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not scaremongering – I'm simply pointing out that, if we don't pick up some points from our next four games, we could be in a sticky situation if results go against us in the mid- to lower-table battle.

Chris Leyland
95 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:51:57
Michael, Jay, Sam, I did the remaining fixtures too and being as pessimistic as possible by giving other teams shock results, I have us relegated last day of the season by 1 point from Southampton. That is on the basis of us getting 3 points more all season.

I also have Liverpool winning the league by a single point.

Rennie Smith
96 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:53:09
Yes it was pretty desperate on Saturday, but I still don't think sacking Silva is the right thing to do. What this club needs is some stability, not a hire-and-fire mentality. I'm not saying he's a great manager, but he needs to be given a chance, not half a season.

You can blame him for formations, tactics, motivation etc. etc. but you can't blame him for a player that can't make a 5-yard pass.

It all went to shit after the RS jammied that derby goal, so why can't it work in reverse with a 1-0 win off Tosun's arse on 3rd?

Eddie Dunn
97 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:55:26
Andy, condolences mate, one day at a time. Best wishes.
Tony J Williams
98 Posted 11/02/2019 at 12:58:57
What the fuck has Bill got to do with us playing like a bunch of pansies the last months? He is a puppet in the boardroom now, nothing more.

The problem with our team has been as obvious as Michael Jackson being a paedo, we don't have anyone to put the ball in the onion bag.

Richarlson for £80M, yes fucking please.

I had the strangest conversation with someone about him, "he does fuck all but score occasionally", bizarre thing to say but true.

Usually on his arse moaning or feigning an injury or not passing to a Blue or trying daft shots. Can't stand him, but unfortunately, he is our top scorer.

We need a forward, which should have been sorted January and we need a nasty fucker in the middle to get the team going.

Things are that bad at the moment, I found myself reminiscing about the good times with Phil Neville there, standing about pointing at spaces FUCKING PHIL NEVILLE??????

Christ, I swore I wouldn't let Everton get me this worked up again, but hey ho!

Clive Rogers
99 Posted 11/02/2019 at 13:47:52
Tony, #98, Kenwright is the chairman of Everton FC. He took over a club in the top six in size and sold it on as a broken shambles. He is not what we want as a chairman.

A puppet is the last thing the club needs. How many other Premier League clubs have a puppet chairman. We need a dynamic, inspirational chairman to revitalise us from the top down.

Kenwright staying as chairman gives completely the wrong message to the club's employees. He ruined EFC with 20 years of incompetence and is now a millstone around our neck and an embarrassment. We will never make any progress as long as he is there.

Henry Lloyd
100 Posted 11/02/2019 at 13:56:54
Tony J williams @98,

That's a beauty, mate! Made me laugh like Maniac.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

101 Posted 11/02/2019 at 14:06:18
Michael @ 94.

The charge of scaremongering was made because you said your predictions had us in the bottom 3 by mid-March after the Chelsea game.

As I said previously, that is a mathematical impossibility given the fixtures of ALL the 12 teams from Everton below in that time scale, even if you attempted to key in the very worst and most detrimental result combinations against Everton you could imagine.

If you believe the 'R' word is possible for Everton, put a quid on it to ease you pain when it does happen. As recently as yesterday you could get 500/1 for that to happen. One single bet at those odds is enough for bookies to adjust the price, but plenty still offering 250/1.

Fill yer boots!

Craig Walker
102 Posted 11/02/2019 at 14:10:43
Gary @60. I don't really follow Newcastle but I thought Benitez did miracles keeping them up last season given how little he had to spend and the restrictions imposed on him under Ashley. Do you think Silva would have kept them up? I know we'll never know, but I suspect he wouldn't have.

Has Benitez really left clubs badly off since he was at Liverpool? He won the Italian Super Cup with Inter Milan and the FIFA World Club Cup. He won the Coppa Italia with Napoli in his first season. Finished 3rd in Serie A with Napoli in 2013-14, qualifying them for the Champions' League. He won Chelsea a UEFA Cup, meaning he is one of two people to win that trophy with 2 different clubs. He was hounded at Chelsea but I think they'd settle for how he was doing compared to now – they finished 3rd in his last season and 4th the season before, I think. He didn't do well at Real Madrid, admittedly but I'd settle for a single trophy at Goodison to be honest. We are extrapolating his time after he was at the RS. If you look at what he did for them and before then his record is very impressive. Even the most ardent anti-RS fan (which I am) must admit that.

It's laughable that people on here dismiss Benitez's achievements but some posters wanted to show us that Silva was a brilliant coach because he won some tin-pot cup in a tin-pot league.

Do we want a manager who has managed bigger clubs than Everton and won stuff or should we just take a punt on an up-and-coming manager again and see if it can turn out better than with Walker, Martinez and Silva?

Rob Halligan
103 Posted 11/02/2019 at 14:23:12
For us to be in the bottom three (last place currently filled by Southampton) by mid March would mean Southampton winning 3 and drawing one of the following games, and us losing all of ours:

Arsenal (A) 0 points
Fulham (H) 3 points
Man Utd (A) 0 points
Spurs (H) 0 points.
Watford (A) 0 points.

So that makes us still 6 points clear of Southampton. I can't be arsed looking at Fulham or Huddersfield fixtures as they aren't going to catch us.

So us to be in the bottom three by mid March Yeah right!.

Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 11/02/2019 at 14:34:17
I will bet anyone that Everton get another 10 points at least by the end of this season, even without a recognised striker.
Brian Williams
105 Posted 11/02/2019 at 14:40:38
Tony#104.
I hope you're right mate, wish I had your faith at the moment.
Rob Halligan
106 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:07:14
Just to back up what Jay # 101 is saying, here's the next few fixtures for Fulham and Huddersfield. Bearing in mind Fulham are 16 points and a far inferior goal difference, which equates 6 games, while Huddersfield are 22 points and a far inferior goal difference, which equates to 8 games

Fulham
West Ham (A) 0 points
Southampton (A) 0 points
Chelsea (H) 0 points
Leicester (A) 0 points
Liverpool (H) 0 points
Man city (H) 0 points

Huddersfield
Newcastle (A) 0 points
Wolves (H) 0 points
Brighton (A) 0 points
Bournemouth (H) 1 point.
West Ham (A) 0 points
Palace (A) 0 points.

Again, just to show no bias, I'll say we will lose all our next 6 games, and none of the bottom three will still catch us.

Bill Watson
108 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:32:48
Rob; you're missing the point. Most would agree Huddersfield are gone and Fulham are on the brink. What's up for grabs is third from bottom and that could be any of 5 or 6 clubs. If we lose the next few matches we could be right in the thick of it.

Huddersfield should eventually win one and looking at their fixtures they could well do us a few favours. The plus for Everton is that so many of the clubs below us have still to play each other.

Darren Murphy
109 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:36:51
@77 Andy, Condolences man, been there myself like others mate, think of all the good times to bring you through lad, best wishes.
Brian Harrison
110 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:38:22
I thought the comments by Michael Keane were very interesting in the papers this morning, he said the players are all behind Silva and believes he will turn things around.

Now I don't see any Chelsea players saying that about Sarri, nor the Man Utd players saying that about Mourhino. I have never believed that the players weren't giving their all but, like often happens, the harder you try, the worse it gets for a while.

I don't see too many candidates who we could get that would guarantee a major turnaround. I think Brands and Silva must regret not buying a proven striker when they first joined the club.

I just wish Vardy was 4 years younger, he is exactly what we need, his know-how and pace worry defenders. Calvert-Lewin may in time be the answer but not now nor next season either. Tosun isn't and never will be the answer. Then add to the mix the very poor goal return from Bernard and Walcott – it's no wonder we are struggling to win games.

Stan Schofield
111 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:38:48
Jay@101: It's an annual event on ToffeeWeb for a lot of posts to express concerns about relegation, despite the fact that we are consistent in finishing with between 45 and 60 points, average about 57 over the last decade or so.

In contrast, we never really get many posts (if any) talking about the possibility of winning the league, despite that (on the face of it) we've got about as much chance of doing that as we have of being relegated.

Perhaps this reflects the overall problems at Everton, where there seems to be a lack of belief, a lack of winning mentality. Perhaps the problem extends to many of the supporters after so many years of falsely raised expectations.

Folks on ToffeeWeb keep going on about how we need fighters on the pitch. Well, in my opinion, and given that a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, it starts with the small detail of belief, and that includes belief from the supporters.

Instead, we get bipolar disease on ToffeeWeb, posts flitting between hope and expectation in parts of the season, and apparent despair in other parts. When we're in the former category, many folks say it will be a bumpy ride, that there will be disappointments along the way, but that we'll get there in the end. Then, when things look a bit tits-up, despair kicks in, and the entire Everton hierarchy is shite.

This season has been especially noticeable for this bipolarity. In fact, the difference in ToffeeWeb between pre-derby and post-derby is striking.

I can myself understand it, because Everton have done my head in over the years. But we need to get a grip, a dose of reality, and realise that we need to keep supporting the players (especially), who are not in fact useless lazy spoilt bastards, but just footballers on 'ridiculous money' that has fuck-all to do with the ebb and flow of our performances on the pitch.

If we don't support them, the rest of the football world, especially our neighbours, will look on in amusement, and we don't need to be contributing to that nonsense.

Derek Cowell
112 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:43:15
Jay@92. If the pinkies across the park were to win the league by 2 or 3 points, I for one would be doubly gutted as they were the points gifted to them by Pickford!!
Rob Halligan
113 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:43:44
I agree with you, Bill, but with some saying we will, or could be in the bottom three by mid-March, are assuming Southampton who currently occupy the final relegation place, are going to beat any 3 of Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs, Fulham and Watford and maybe draw one. That's my point.

After that Southampton then have Brighton (A), Liverpool (H), Wolves (H), Newcastle (A), Bournemouth, (H) West Ham (A) and finally Huddersfield (H).

I looked at Fulham and Huddersfield out of curiosity, and there's no way either of them will catch us.

We may well get dragged further down the table, but come the end of the season, we won't occupy a relegation place.

Michael Lynch
114 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:44:26
Jay @101

Firstly, it's not a mathematical impossibility. I've done it twice now using that link; first time I had us in the bottom 3 after the Chelsea game, second time after the West Ham game.

Secondly, if you read my post properly, I didn't say it was going to happen, I said it was a possibility if we don't pick up any points from our next four games and the rest of the results go against us. As I said, I didn't enter any massive shock results, though the second time I had Southampton beating Spurs 1-0 at home, so that probably counts as a shock.

Derek Cowell
115 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:49:13
Up to now, my worst season as a blue (since 1966) was 1985-86 when we gifted that lot the double!!
Rob Halligan
116 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:53:53
Michael, I'm intrigued to know what you've predicted for Southampton away at Arsenal and Man Utd, as I'm guessing you've got them down to beat Fulham at home.

Surely you can't believe them winning at Arsenal or United would not count as a shock?

Brian Harrison
117 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:56:32
Stan @111,

You are absolutely right, it's about time that we made Goodison Park a place the opposition didn't like visiting. We even have people on here posting about being relegated, and trying to forecast how the games will go to the end of the season.

I think our fans would do well to see how Man Utd fans have behaved since Ferguson retired. Their results have been nothing like they have come to expect, yet they back their teams for the whole of the 90 minutes, whether winning or losing. And this is a club that is used to winning the Premier League on a very regular basis. So you could expect them to be more critical than us who have never won the Premier League.

I have never heard them boo their team at full-time when they have lost badly, yet some of our fans think the way to encourage our team, if losing at half-time, is to boo them off. I would say our away support is terrific — so how come the away support can be so brilliant and the home support at times is abysmal?

Michael Lynch
118 Posted 11/02/2019 at 15:59:32
Rob, Southhampton are 9 points behind us with a game in hand. If they beat Watford and Fulham and Brighton and we lose against Cardiff, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle and West Ham in the same period, they are level with us on points. If they even take one point off Arsenal, Man Utd or Spurs in the same time period, they are ahead of us.

Their results look possible, if unlikely. Ours look unlikely but possible considering our form is the worst in the Premier League bar Huddersfield. We've won one of our last five Premier League games, and that was against the bottom club.

Derek Cowell
119 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:08:47
Michael @118. It's not just about the Saints though, is it? Even if theirs and our results go as you say, there are all those other teams below us who also have to win enough games to put us 3rd from bottom! They won't all win enough games!
Chris Gould
120 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:16:32
Michael, you could put West Ham, Leicester, Bournemouth, and even Watford down if you manipulate the results in the same way. None of the teams below us or just above have shown any kind of consistency this season.

Of course it's possible for us or any of these teams to go down, but it is exceptionally unlikely. It is far more likely that we will finish 7th than get relegated. We won't do either.

Michael Lynch
121 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:16:57
Derek, no it's not just about the Saints, and there are other results that need to go against us for us to be dragged into the relegation battle, but it is neither impossible nor unthinkable.

All I am saying is that, if you feed results into the link above, with us carrying on our abysmal form, you don't actually have to put in any ridiculous scores for us to end up down near the bottom three. All it takes is a particular combination of results in the upcoming games.

Michael Lynch
122 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:18:26
Chris, absolutely, but our form needs to change more than any other team's IMO. One win in five plus defeat at Millwall, and we have some pretty unwinnable looking home games coming up.
Jay Wood
[BRZ]

123 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:18:49
Stan @ 111.

Agreed Stan. For some, it's not just an annual event to express concerns about relegation, it's a weekly one, based on looking at Everton's results and performances in isolation and not taking into consideration other teams' form and results.

I don't see anyone seriously contesting that this has been a successful or acceptable season by Everton. It has fallen well short of what the manager and the players should be achieving.

But like you, I grow weary of the bipolar nature of some as you describe it, demanding fighters on the pitch (which I agree with), but then cluck-cluck-cluck that 'we're doomed I tells ya, doomed!'

Rob has done a sterling job highlighting Southampton's fixtures alone – the team currently occupying the third relegation spot – which makes a nonsense of Michael Lynch's claims that he didn't make any outrageous predictions to place Everton in the bottom 3 by mid-March.

And that is just one example. There are another 10 clubs below us other than just Southampton, but all 11 teams are going to overhaul Everton in the next 3-4 games, even when many of the fixtures pitch them against each other?

Ridiculous.

Michael Lynch
124 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:22:32
Jay - once again, just to reiterate that you said it was a mathematical impossibility for Southampton to overtake us in March. It simply isn't.

Do I think we are going to go down? Absolutely not. Do I think it is unthinkable that we could find ourselves in a relegation battle? Absolutely not.

The fact is, if our form continues, and Southampton beat Fulham, Watford and Brighton, we will be level on points with them.

Rob Halligan
125 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:28:43
Michael, fair enough, but you must have put on that predictor, Southampton to win away at Arsenal and / or Man Utd, and Spurs at home – results that to me certainly don't look possible at all... well, they are... but, as you say, highly unlikely. Any person, being totally impartial, would say Southampton would lose those three games.

I understand you are only trying to say we could be in the bottom three by mid-March but, as three of Southampton's next four games are against Arsenal, Man Utd and Spurs, it ain't gonna happen.

But mathematically... it could.

Michael Lynch
126 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:30:37
No Rob, as I keep saying, I put them to beat Fulham, Watford and Brighton – a point against one of the big clubs would give them 10 points. We would have to lose all our next five games for them to overhaul us. It's unlikely, but I didn't have them taking anything at Arsenal or Man Utd.
Rob Halligan
127 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:45:45
Michael, I'm only going by what you said in your post at #84. By mid-March, you said we could be in bottom three, meaning Southampton only play Arsenal, Fulham, Man Utd, Spurs and Watford. (You can't include Brighton as that's at the end of March.)

Three wins and a draw out of that lot...??? No Chance.

Brian Williams
128 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:49:32
Just out of interest I did one of those online predictor things where you guess the result of every game in the prem for every remaining week.

I was brutally honest with my predictions, as in not giving us a win when there was no chance of one, ie, the derby, and I have us finishing twelfth on 43 points (another 10 points as Tony Abrahams says @ post 104).Southampton finished fourth from bottom on 36 points!

Stan Schofield
129 Posted 11/02/2019 at 16:56:30
Brian @128: I know from many posts that you're a very reasonable bloke. So you will know as well as I do that that numerical exercise is a complete waste of time.

And seriously? No chance of a win in the derby? Unless we believe we can and will win, then we won't.

Rob Halligan
130 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:04:24
Stan, I agree. Anything is possible and us beating the Red Shite is certainly not impossible. It's this negative attitude (nothing against Brian by the way) which pisses me right off.

There were four of us on the train back from Watford on Saturday and I ended up arguing with two of them because they are adamant we will, or at least could end up in the relegation places, and we've got absolutely no chance against the Red Shite.

Stan Schofield
131 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:14:45
Rob, I've been pissed off with defeatist attitudes since I was about 15, which is just on 50 years of being pissed off. It started in 1970 when some in the crowd barracked Ball after his post-Mexico drop in form, intensified a few years later when Kendall got the same treatment after a (very unusual for him) drop in form, and has never abated.

It's bad enough listening to drivel from Liverpool supporters, but when our own supporters slag the players off and say we've got fuckall chance of winning, it totally does my head in.

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

132 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:20:32
All right Michael.

I checked again. You are right. It is not 'mathematical impossible' for Southampton to overtake us by mid-March (the weekend fixtures of 16 March.

I am still interested to know, other than predicting zero points for Everton in that period from two home games to Liverpool and Chelsea and two away games to Cardiff and Newcastle as you state, where Southampton are going to get the 10 points to go above us, or the nine points to just draw level with us on 33 points AND improve their goal difference from -16 to better our -3, in their next five fixtures, given that Southampton's league form to date reads:

Home: W 2 D 6 L 5 F 15 A 21 Pts 12 (av. pts per game 0.92)
Away: W 3 D 3 L 7 F 13 A 23 Pts 12 (av. ppg 0.77)

Whereas these are the games and form of their opposition in this time frame:

A Arsenal - Home record W 10 D 2 L 1 F 28 A 11 Pts 32 (av. ppg 2.46)
H Fulham (I'll give you 3 points for that one)
A Man Utd - Home record W 7 D 4 L 1 F 25 A 16 Pts 25 (av. ppg 2.08 - even better with the Solskjær effect)
H Spurs - Away record - best in the PL - W 11 D 0 L 2 F 30 A 13 Pts 33 (av. ppg 2.54)
A Watford - Home record W 6 D 2 L 5 F 17 A 18 Pts 20 (av. ppg 1.82)

You keep repeating that you "didn't put anything ridiculous in, just feasible results". Prove it.

You not only presume Everton will get zero points from their own four games in the period to mid-March, but that in Southampton's five fixtures against the listed opposition they will get a minimum of 9 points AND vastly improve their goal difference just to get level with Everton's current tally, or 10 points to overhaul us.

Share with us which bare minimum of 3 games (which represents more than 50% of the paltry 5 games they have won in 26 games to date), given both the Saints home and away form, are they going to win to make this remotely plausible?

And that's just ONE team of the 11 still below in the league.

Sorry Micheal. I'll repeat what I originally said.

Scaremongering.

Derek Cowell
133 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:21:22
I was wondering how people feel about tonights Wolves v Newcastle game. The way we are playing I personally am now looking at pulling further away from the teams below us rather than trying to catch the team in 7th (Wolves). I'm hoping for a Wolves win!
Clive Mitchell
134 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:23:27
I remember a manager who had a terrible run of results pretty much like Marco Silva's last 14 games. In a 13 game top flight spell this manager lost 7 matches and only won 3, and the team fell into the bottom third of the table; what made that situation much worse was that this manager had already been at the club for over two years.

The club didn't sack him. Eighteen months later they were champions. The manager's name was Howard Kendall.

Patience. Silva deserves more than 26 games.

Stan Schofield
135 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:26:05
Derek, it's simple. We don't worry about them, because worry achieves nothing. We simply go out to win each game as it comes.

Until after the derby, it looked like Silva believed we could beat anyone, and had the players believing it too, which made me believe it.

We need to get back to that belief pronto. We're not Wolves or Newcastle, we're Everton, we've got superior players, and if we believe we'll win games we'll have more chance of doing so.

Rob Halligan
136 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:27:01
I bet Michael wishes he'd never put that stupid predictor tool on now.
Rob Halligan
137 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:30:05
Derek (are you the same Derek Cowell I went to school with?), I'm hoping for a Wolves win as I've got two of their players in my fantasy football team, plus I can't stand Newcastle.
Jay Harris
138 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:34:38
I don't think we will be relegated or even near the bottom 4 but I understand people's concern about our form which is the worst in the division bar Huddersfield.

I want to believe that this form cannot continue but I have been trying to convince myself that since Burnley.

The Cardiff game could go either way and the other fixtures don't bear thinking about but if we don't reach 40+ points then heads must roll.

Mike Dolan
139 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:44:29
Perhaps' blame' is the wrong word to use when looking for a cause for this mess.

Let's go back to Moyes's last couple of seasons at the club. We had settled into the mentality of a middle-of-the-table club. Success was defined by our ability to reach 40 points. It was a glorious achievement to reach 4th in the table.

The football was dour most of the time and much like now if anybody was happy with the club they loved their words were always couched as they are today with much the same 'Ifs" about the poor team selections, and why the wanker insisted on playing Arteta on the wing instead of center midfield.

Blue Bill would state annually that he was still searching for the monied messiah who would lead us to the next new ground and the top four. They did a good job really and Moyes basically said toward the end that he had no idea how the heart of his team would ever be replaced given the resources that were just not available. Moyes went to Manchester United leaving behind a bunch of aging B players who were mostly past their middle-of-the-table prime.

That is the foundation that is built on. The rot that is now slowly being addressed started then.

Bobby Martinez hoodwinked us and the league for a while. The introduction of Stones gave the illusion of a new defensive shape but after the adrenaline rush of the new manager had worn off the inevitable crash. As Kristofferson sang, the going up was not worth the coming down and put us into an even worse place that Moyes seemed to have realized was inevitable anyway.

The at last the start of the new future arrived with the 5-year plan and all the rest of it. I thought Koeman would be a good coach maybe a bit dour and not exactly a barrel of laughs but a Steady Eddie type who would at least put in a new foundation.

DoF Walsh was a scout for Leicester and way out of his depth. Walsh was good at recognizing talent but, as anyone who has ever hired anyone will tell you, the most important part of hiring anybody to do anything is being able to assess if that personality is able to fit into and enhance the organization or team.

For instance, a Sigurdsson is light years ahead of a Tim Cahill in terms of pure talent but in terms of his effect on the team a digger like Cahill is worth three Sigurdsson's and a meat pie. Lukaku, Stones and Barkley all gone. They were doomed before the first ball was kicked.

We cannot allow ourselves to panic and change the management again. I do believe that we have a good management structure finally. We are probably would have been further ahead at this moment had we kept Koeman and replaced Walsh with Brands but only the Three-Eyed Raven could know for sure.

Marco Silva has had just half a year; he is a bright young coach who is not going to jam the game up to get a result. He tries to play with some fluidity like the Everton of old.

He has some good players but very very few leaders on this team. He inherited a mismatched midfield and lacks a goalscorer. What could we really expect at this point? Bring Moyes back we whimper, forgetting that he was Allardyce before Allardyce.

We are finally at the place where we can improve If we have to change coaches then we should but I swear it can only be Marcel Brands and not this bad run of results that can make that decision.

Brian Williams
140 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:45:15
Stan and Rob.

I don't normally have a negative attitude but with regard to the derby I'm merely going on what I've seen week in week out, and also form. We have been abysmal and look like a team bereft of heart, effort and ideas. Our defence from set pieces is from the Stevie Wonder school of defending and our attacking (attacking ffs?) is non existent.

Our opponents in the derby, or the Red Shite as we call them, are fighting it out with City for top spot.
I know the numbers predictors are pointless, bit of fun you might say, but the form of us and our opponents is so so different that predicting a win against them seems to me to just be wishful thinking and nothing more.

I would 100% love to be wrong but we are woeful with no sign of change and "they" unfortunately are in a different league to us (metaphorically speaking).

As I say I'd love to be wrong and come up with "the" result that unhinged their title challenge but, no matter how hard I try, I just can't see it!

Jay Wood
[BRZ]

141 Posted 11/02/2019 at 17:58:58
Jay @ 138.

"I don't think we will be relegated or even near the bottom 4 but I understand peoples concern about our form which is the worst in the division bar Huddersfield."

Here's the thing Jay, incredible as it may seem, but since the defeat across the park early December, we are NOT in the bottom 3 of the form table.

Naturally, Huddersfield and Fulham occupy the bottom two places still, then Brighton occupies the 3rd relegation slot with 9 points in the same period.

Leicester are next with the same 11 points as Everton, but with a poorer goal difference. We are TWO places above the relegation zone on this form table.

And - yes! - I'm all too aware that both Leicester and Brighton have beaten us in that time.

Nothing to trumpet about, but it highlights what I keep saying. Too many look at Everton's results and performances in isolation (which are shite), but as hard as it is to believe, there are teams shitier than us!

We will stumble our way to the end of this season. The risk is, we will continue in the same vein next season if we retain Silva?

If we do, then the threat of relegation may well be a justified topic of conversation for next season, but not for this one.

Stan Schofield
142 Posted 11/02/2019 at 18:08:52
Brian, I get all that, it makes sense. But to win, we need something more than sense, we need belief. The way we played at Anfield surprised me, and gives me real belief (not just fairy tale belief) that we can and will beat them, and other top-6 sides with the talent we have, if only those players believe it, as they seemed to until after the derby.
Michael Lynch
143 Posted 11/02/2019 at 18:14:33
Rob @136 - too right mate!
Derek Cowell
144 Posted 11/02/2019 at 18:16:01
Rob, yep I am that person! Up the Wolves then! I hate Newcastle too!

Stan, I don't 'worry' about other teams but you cant follow our team in the Premier League without casting an eye about and taking in, or having an opinion on, those teams around us in the table. After all, we need to finish as far away from those below us in terms of places to get the most Sky cash on offer.

Stan Schofield
145 Posted 11/02/2019 at 18:27:02
Derek, I don't disagree, but really, at the end of the day, surely we should only focus on each game as it comes, believe we can win it, and go out to win it. Surely anything else doesn't really matter in that scheme of things. Personally, I want us to be as near the top of the league as possible, and never think about the bottom of it. We're Everton after all, not a club that is merely content to survive in the Premier League. We want and expect to be at the very top.
Jay Harris
146 Posted 11/02/2019 at 21:43:54
Jay, I can't disagree with what you say, particularly if we carry this form into next season; we would almost certainly be amongst the relegation strugglers.

My worry is there seems to be a sense of “It will be alright on the night” attitude in the corridors of power and NSNO seems to be a relic of the past.

Derek Cowell
147 Posted 11/02/2019 at 22:16:09
Stan, I commend your optimism!

I wish I wasn't such a realist!

Gary Hughes
148 Posted 11/02/2019 at 22:29:26
Craig @102,

Benitez has zero respect for our club, why would you want such a man anywhere near us?

Also, if he's so good why is he still the manager Newcastle? I'll tell you why, nobody else wants him, except for half our fan base it would seem.

Ian Riley
149 Posted 11/02/2019 at 22:36:17
Henry #80.

Silva is learning his trade! The evidence is he has won nothing in this country. Relagated a club, left a club and not spent more than a full season at a club in this country. The biggest joke written on this forum is when people say "Go and get José".

We have employed a manager whom has done very average at previous clubs. If Everton had ambition, they would have got a manager who has won trophies. Gone the extra mile. Pay the £10M-a-year contract but we haven't.

We have a manager who is struggling due to lack of experience. Learning his trade, he is and we have employed him. Not his fault – just the risk we have taken.

Stan Schofield
150 Posted 11/02/2019 at 22:59:25
Derek @147:

I don't necessarily think it's optimism, or that someone who disagrees with it shows pessimism, or that you are a realist (whatever that may be).

It is simply a mechanism, one that I believe is useful practically, for maximising the likelihood of achieving desired ends. In this sense, I believe it is rational, ie, consistent with the desired ends. It avoids wasting time focusing on non-useful detail, and instead promotes focus on detail that is likely to be more useful.

I believe it corresponds, in sport, to a 'winning mentality' of the kind that helps separate winners from those who come second. I think Everton need to develop such a mechanism, to minimise the chances of undesired things that are beyond our control unduly affecting things that are within our control.

Derek Cowell
151 Posted 11/02/2019 at 23:27:50
Stan, I believe I am a realist in that if I really believe we will lose (and during this awful run I have believed that often) and we do actually lose then that is real.

I could have really tried to convince myself that we would beat Man City last week but we still would have lost. Then I would have been even more gutted as I expected to win.

Whatever I think the result will be will make no difference to the actual result. It goes without saying that I always want us to win but having an often unrealistic expectation will not make it happen.

Now, for the club hierarchy, staff and players, the situation is entirely different. They need to and should, genuinely believe that they will win and they are the only ones with a realistic chance of making it happen. That, in turn, will make the fans believe. I need to see it on the pitch and it is not happening at present but, like always, Evertonians live in perpetual hope, including me!

I am taking it one game at a time.

Henry Lloyd
152 Posted 12/02/2019 at 01:40:57
Ian @149,

I understand your frustration at the joke that is bringing in Jose Mourinho although I personally have never mentioned that particular Portuguese name at any stage.

With regard to learning his trade and it not being his fault: we brought him in knowing he has been a total failure wherever he has been – and he himself knowing this also.

He has plenty of experience of doing the same thing, week-in & week-out and getting exactly the same result each and every week.

He is learning fuck-all... So his learning curve must be cut off by, as you rightly said, the people who took the risk.

You cannot teach people who do not listen... or are, in Silva's case, totally inept and out of his depth.

Stan Schofield
153 Posted 12/02/2019 at 09:22:10
Derek, I agree about taking one game at a time.

However, what you've mentioned there is 'prediction', 'expectation', what you think will probably happen.

I'm looking at it from a different angle. We don't know what will happen; we never do in reality, but we can influence the chances of a desired outcome happening by altering our mental approach. I believe this is part of what coaches do with sports psychology, and also in other areas.

An example is a tennis player not being phased by being three match-points down, but carrying on playing methodically, which increases the chances of coming back and winning. It's all about altering our chances, nothing more than that.

It's also relevant to professional musicians maintaining their technical focus in front of a big audience, or anyone else in front of a big audience.

I think Everton need to adapt the mental attitude side of things, to maximise their chances of winning each game as it comes.

Stan Schofield
154 Posted 12/02/2019 at 09:54:58
Derek, just to add, what I've said is detached entirely from the emotional side of Everton. I'm talking about a technique that is coached and improved with practice. That's why I think of it as a mechanism, it's a tangible thing that can be understood and used by professionals to improve performance.

No doubt Everton get involved in such things, being a Premier League Club, but whatever they do it seems insufficient, in that we seem to have been mentally fragile for some time, heads dropping in the face of adversity.

For us fans, of course we have nothing to do with such techniques, but I believe we can contribute something that parallels them, which is constant support for players, ESPECIALLY when they don't perform well. It makes sense to do so, because it is more likely to help them than doing the reverse of openly criticising them.

It became obvious to me as a young Evertonian in the 60s that criticising players was futile and counter-productive. It also pissed me off, and continues to do so. But now I also KNOW it doesn't work in the professional sense I've indicated.

Trevor Peers
155 Posted 12/02/2019 at 10:45:28
Stan@154,

I think the manager usually helps in this department, Fergie with his hairdryer rants at Utd being the perfect example. In today's game we have Pep with his relentless obsessive talking and encouraging from the line, playing each kick of the match.

Even Klopp, who sometimes looks as though he's lost the plot, has a massive effect on his players – they're brainwashed into playing well.

Which brings us to Silva. What does his demeanour tell us, he looks passive almost depressed when he's on the line. Ranting doesn't always work but his body language says 'loser'.

Stan Schofield
156 Posted 12/02/2019 at 11:01:43
Trevor, I'm not actually sure what effect Klopp and Pep have from the sidelines. Pep has fantastic players, and he's clearly a good technical coach and motivator, and obviously the bulk of the work is done by the time play starts. Klopp has good but not fantastic players, they seem fragile like us but not as bad as us during last season and this season, and he also seems a good technical coach and motivator, and he does seem a bit nutty.

With us, our players are good but not quite as good as Liverpool's, although we looked comparable in the derby, and indeed our midfield looked far superior. I just think that perhaps we could replicate that level of performance far more often if we developed the 'right' mental attitude.

Trevor Peers
157 Posted 12/02/2019 at 11:23:01
Agreed, Stan, the level of performance at Anfield was encouraging. Getting to that level consistently is Silva's big challenge and we all hope he succeeds; only the best coaches achieve it.

It's looking increasingly less likely that Silva will achieve it again this season though.

Stan Schofield
158 Posted 12/02/2019 at 12:14:09
Trevor, yes, it's bloody frustrating to see that level of quality in the Derby (and similarly against Chelsea), and then see us fall off a cliff. That quality was the best for a long time, IMO, which is why I'd be reluctant to start from square one with a new manager and new set of players.

Derek Cowell
159 Posted 12/02/2019 at 14:13:48
Stan you are right about the pointlessness of slagging off the players, especially the youngsters. This is never going to make them better. They will always want to play the 'safe' ball etc to try and avoid mistakes and further criticism.

The only player I have ever criticised on here was Lukaku as I thought he was lazy and his attitude stank the place out. I wish I hadnt however as I would have his lazy petulent arse back in a heartbeat because we need his goals!

Tony Abrahams
160 Posted 12/02/2019 at 14:31:30
Have to agree with you Stan, only you put it so much better than me, mate.

He's lost a lot of the fan-base Silva, especially because of the zonal marking, but I've also seen enough to give him a bit longer.

He's got to change this, he's made us more compact in the last couple of games, which was my other big gripe, and with over two weeks on the training ground before another game, it won't take us long to see if he can finally start getting his message across to the players, some of whom seem frightened to death, especially when they play at Goodison.

Andy Meighan
161 Posted 12/02/2019 at 14:40:31
Stan @156,

"Our players are good but not as good as Liverpool's" — Classic understatement. Their players are light years ahead of ours right throughout the side. Only one league loss all season says it all... 2nd in the Premier League on goal difference and a game in hand.

Our players don't even look like they've got a goal in them never— mind a win! Not one single player of ours would get in their side... and God how that pains me to say that.

Derek Taylor
162 Posted 12/02/2019 at 15:04:01
However bad Everton are playing, by my reckoning they have taken 10 points from the last 11 games. They have only to continue in this sparkling form for the last 11 to finish with 43 points.

Where is the crisis? (Not my thinking but that of Moshirei and Brands!)

Martin Mason
163 Posted 14/02/2019 at 11:24:01
I recently mentioned about the difficulty for a Manager of getting the right players, position for position, to suit the tactics that he intends to use. The really difficult thing is to then make those players "click".

Many clubs in the same position as us buy, buy, buy, all perhaps good players but also really bad but never get those players to click. Klopp has done it at Liverpool and United's manager to an extent. Kendall did it spectacularly first time around.

Some managers manage to unclick sides that had previously clicked like Chelsea perhaps. Some clubs like City can afford to buy such good players that getting them to click isn't so difficult. I say this because earlier in the season we clicked and for a while the sky seemed the limit. Then we crashed and this must cause Silva sleepless nights. Same players who clicked are now rubbish, what can he do?

I don't believe that given our bloated and overpaid squad and the myriad of genuine talent coming from the academy that we don't have the right quality of players to become a top side (remember Leicester?) with the right coach.

My current feeling is that while Silva has to be given more time the likelihood is that he isn't the one to click us to a higher level. We can churn players in and out as much as we want but that won't do it.

What a gem to miss Pochettino was; how about Paul Scholes?

Nicholas Ryan
164 Posted 14/02/2019 at 12:09:32
One thing I don't understand, is the Jekyll and Hyde aspect of this season. Think back to the 89th minute at Anfield, when we seemed nailed-on to get a point. How has it gone, from that, to this ?!
Paul Tran
166 Posted 16/02/2019 at 12:56:11
Stan #150. Spot-on.

Look back to the Euro 96 semi final. Two evenly matched teams, one (England) on a roll playing at home in a fantastic atmosphere (I've never seen one like it at Wembley). England score in the first minute and Wembley shook.

Watching the Germans methodically doing the right things consistently against all the odds was one of the best lessons in mental strength and character I've ever seen.

They rode their luck and got their win. Afterwards, Klinsmann said they he looked at the England players and felt that 'they didn't actually believe they could beat us.'

That's the mentality I'd like us to have. We had it for three years in the mid-80s, we had it fleetingly in 94-95.

I think we have some good players. They need shaping into a coherent team. More importantly, they need some help with their mental resilience. Someone at the club needs to be big enough to recognise this and act on it.

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